The Kevin Sheehan Show - Free Agency Ideas

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

Kevin opened with some Commanders' free agent ideas. Michael Phillips/The Fan-Richmond jumped on to Commanders and Wizards/Caps to Alexandria. ESPN's John Keim again today with draft talk.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show today. John Kime, part three. John and I rambled on for a little while yesterday.

So I cut it into three parts. The first two you heard yesterday, the third part you will hear today. It'll be focused primarily on the draft. Michael Phillips before Kime, Michael's covering the story of Will they or won't they, the Wizards and Caps moved to Virginia, he seems to think that it is still a possibility, even though most indicate it is near dead. As of now, as of the recording of this podcast, the show presented, as always, by Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to windonation.com. This from Red Wolves 81, Kevin, I love when you and Kime share some out-of-school

stories about covering the team. The McNabb stuff was interesting, but I'm now interested in the book you guys say Colt McCoy could write. Do tell. Yeah, John and I went down, we didn't even mean to necessarily, but somehow we got on to Donovan McNabb and Rex Grossman and the RG3 era with Colt McCoy in the room with RG3 and Kirk Cousins. Yeah, somebody else also sent me an email about the McNabb's story that I told about Mike Shanahan. Mike Shanahan told me that the second game of 2010, which was a shootout with Houston, where McNabb threw for over 400 yards, Mike said if he actually knew the plays in the playbook, he would have thrown for 600 in that game. A lot of the players back then said McNabb was struggling to sort of be focused on getting the playbook.

I don't know that McNabb really came here with a burning desire to play for the skins that year. They asked him to wear a wristband. We've heard this story, Santana, Cooley and others over the years about sort of the struggle he had with just being really involved. Not that he wasn't capable of really getting it down, Pat, but just whether or not there was tremendous interest level on that. But the Colt McCoy stuff is, I mean, it would have to come from Colt. These are a lot of stories that a lot of us have heard about that time. Colt was in that locker room.

Rex was initially, but then it was Colt with RG3 and Kirk Cousins, especially when cousins took over for RG3 in 2015. And I think the one thing I did say yesterday, John understands this too, is I'm not so sure Colt was a big fan of either one of the two. But the two, RG3 and Kirk, definitely weren't fans of each other. There was a lot going on there. And a lot of the former players who we've had the ability to talk to about some of that stuff off the record,

It's really for them to be on the record. And I would imagine at some point down the road, if there is some sort of documentary about RG3's, you know, meteoric rise and almost sudden fall from his perch in 2012, there will be a lot of stories that will be told that, you know, for most of us, we've just heard second, third, and fourth hand. But anyway, yeah, the... The talk about Colt McCoy kind of being in the middle of it and not really being fond of either guy.

And watching those two in the relationship they had, yeah, he could probably write an interesting book that would probably just be interesting to some of us. Free agency starts on Wednesday, but the tampering period starts on Monday. And that means that we are going to start hearing news of deals that have been done on Monday, probably sometime around noon, eastern. And Washington, as we've discussed, has the most cap space in the league, somewhere between 91 and 96 million, depending on which site you believe. They've got a slew of their own unrestricted free agents, you know, players that will be available come next. week to sign with other teams. Remember, they released a few players last week, Charles Leno Jr., Logan Thomas, and Nick Gates. But among their prominent unrestricted free agents,

look for Kendall Fuller and Curtis Samuel to have a lot of interest, and Cameron Curl certainly could as well. And then players like Antonio Gibson and Jacoby Brissette and James Smith Williams, Casey Two Hill, Cody Barton, they're all free agents. Joey Sly, their kicker, is a free agent. So Washington is going to lose a lot of these players, whether or not they will make a big run at bringing any of them back after they test the market. I don't know. I would imagine that they need a veteran center.

This is something that I talked to John about. John did not seem to think that there was. was much of a chance that they would be interested in like a guy like Tyler Larson. And that may be true. Too much of an injury history there, even though he would be a veteran center and has played well and apparently is very smart. But a guy like Cornelius Lucas, who's an unrestricted free agent, you know, he may test the market, decide to stay here. They need tackles. They need versatility along that offensive line. I would not expect necessarily Kendall Fuller to be back. I think there's going to be a big market for Kendall Fuller, and he'll have some really good options.

Cam Curl is hitting the market at the wrong time, and the team understands that with all of the safeties that are out there. Curtis Samuel played well. I think he'd be a decent fit for the Kingsbury offense. But yeah, they've got, Kalee Cudson is one of those guys that I wouldn't be surprised if they like. And is there really going to be a big market for Cleek Hudson? Probably not. They got to sign a kicker. There aren't many in free agency.

Joey Sly is, you know, a professional kicker. I think John and I talked about him yesterday. But they've got a bunch of their own unrestricted free agents. They have a lot of needs. You know, there isn't an area really on their team that isn't, you know, at least in need of depth. Now, I would look at detackle and say it's not like they're going to go out and sign a big time starting de-tackle with Payne and Allen. And they do have some depth there with Phil Mathis, John Ridgeway. You know, there's a chance at running back.

They think they're okay with Robinson Jr. and Rodriguez. They may feel they're okay at wide receiver, although they could probably use a replacement for Curtis Samuel, but they may be able to find that in the draft. But it's not going to shock me if anybody gets signed at any position or any position get signed next week because they've just got a ton of needs. And that's where I'll go now, which is looking at what I think would make sense for them or what at least would excite me. I don't think they're going to be super aggressive in free agency for the reasons that I've mentioned this week already. I think that they are going to build this roster over the next few years through the draft. I think there may be, potentially could be, you know, some cash constraints after paying $6 billion for the team.

Would not surprise me if they move some backloaded contracts into this year. There are a lot of things that wouldn't surprise me. You know, I think I mentioned the other day on radio or on the podcast. Had a friend of mine just suggests the Brock Osweiler situation from a couple of years. years ago where the Browns essentially traded cap space to the Houston Texans for Brock Osweiler and draft picks, and then they just cut Osweiler. Washington's got all that cap space. Could they potentially trade some of it for some draft choices, which is the way they want to build anyway? Look, they're going to sign some players, whether they're players that played for them

last year or players that are out there now. I'm going to give you just a couple of names. that I think a lot of you have thought about. Patrick Queen is somebody that a lot of people have mentioned because he fills a need, he's a good player, he comes from a really good organization. I understand that they may be in a cash crunch, cap crunch as it relates to trying to retain Patrick Queen. And I know that his play improved significantly when Roquan Smith arrived in Baltimore. I like Patrick Queen. I think he fits what they are looking for.

Remember, they are looking for from a player trait standpoint, they are looking for physical finishers, competitors. Quinn said that. Peter said that they have an aligned vision on the player trait. That's why I think a guy like Colleen Hudson or Robinson Jr. totally fits what they will be looking to duplicate and triplicate, etc. in free agency and in the draft. Patrick Queen would fit that. Devin White would fit that, but let's face it. Devin White hasn't played as well as he did during that Super Bowl run for Tampa. With Ken Norton Jr. as the linebackers coach, Patrick Queen or Devin White or Josie Jewel

out of Denver, makes sense. From an edge pass rusher standpoint, you know, Josh Allen got tagged, Brian Burns got tagged, but Bryce Huff at just 24, 25 years old. old coming off a really good season with the Jets is out there. Now the Jets were so good defensively. He benefited from being on a great defense. Dorrance Armstrong and Dallas played for Dan Quinn. Then there's a guy like DeNeil Hunter, 29 years old coming off his most productive season, 16 and a half sacks, 23 tackles for loss. This is the guy that would excite me. he is going to be one of the top

free agents on the market. This would be a splash signing. Daniel Hunter has missed games for injuries in Minnesota, but my God, is he a disruptive force, and they need an edge pass rusher. He is the prototypical now of the taller, leaner, lankier,

long-armed pass rusher. You know, he gets his hands on a ton of balls. He gets a ton of sacks with his length. He's able to keep tackles off of him and make play after play. The injury history may be a concern with Hunter, but they need an edge rusher. There are some of them in the draft for sure, but there are a few of them in free agency. I'd love to see a guy like DeNeil Hunter added. At wide receiver, if they were looking, Gabe Davis is available from Buffalo. You know, here's a guy that's got some size to him. Here's a guy that's got definite speed and would be a solid compliment to Terry

McClure. Although I'm hoping that a Cliff Kingsbury offense means that Jahan Dotson ends up being a super sharp and productive compliment to Terry McClorn. Even a Diami Brown could be a possibility there. Offensive lineman, you've got a guy like Jonah Williams in Cincinnati. He was a first round pick, remember out of Alabama, played left tackle but moved to the right side. There's a lot of versatility with Jonah Williams just 26 years old. You know, kind of in that guard center, Tyler Biotish from Dallas. Quinn is familiar with him. You could look at a guy like Jonah Jackson who can play inside.

Yeah, who else that I'm not mentioning? I think I've mentioned them all. I mean, for me, if they went with at least one big, big splash signing, it wouldn't bother me if it were a big-time pass rusher. Hunter's older than Bryce Huff by like four or five years. Huff may be the perfect kind of edge, quick twitch, you know, super athletic pass rusher. You just wonder how much he benefited in his big season last year by being around some of the best talent on defense in the league. Patrick Queen would be outstanding.

I just wonder why Baltimore would let him go, but the money may be a real reason for that. And then, as far as the guys that they have, again, I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't try after Joey Sly tests the market or Kaleek Hudson tests the market, if they don't try to keep guys like them, maybe a Cornelius Lucas, and maybe a Tyler Larson. I would expect Jacoby Burset to sign somewhere else.

much more obviously when we have real information on Monday. John talked about some of these players and others on yesterday's show if you want to go back and listen to that. All right. Michael Phillips next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought you by Window Nation. March is a critical time to check your home's windows. If yours are cracked leaking, won't open or stay open. now is the time to call Wind Donation.

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They're trusted by over 200,000 homeowners, including me. Buy to get two free, pay nothing with no interest for two full years. 86690 Nation or Windonation.com. Jumping on with us right now is our friend Michael Phillips. Michael is currently hosting radio on the fan in Richmond. You can follow Michael on Twitter, as always, at Michael P in RVA. And I reached out to you because you guys have been talking down there, like we have to a certain degree up here, about the move or, you know,

the intended move of Ted Leonis' teams, the Wizards and the Caps, to Alexandria. And that seems to have fallen apart here. over the last 24 to 48 hours. You're in Richmond. This is where it's all coming out of. So give me your perspective on where we are now and where this is headed. Yeah, rewind you to January.

When they announced the thing they do the show of Potomac Yards, my understanding is on that day, they had the votes to get it done. So if the next day they had done the vote in the House or Representatives, the vote in the Senate, it's the House of Delegates in Virginia. but you get the deal, it would have passed in both places, and it would have gone to the governor's desk, and he would have signed it. You know, politics is wonky. You remember the schoolhouse rock videos.

It's not that easy. The president of the Senate, Luis Lucas, is her name. You probably seen her float around online over the last few days. She essentially kept it from being voted on. She did not allow the Senate to take a vote, and that was her way of killing it. Now, that was a controversial move, but it was an effective move. I never got voted on. We got to the end here.

The session ended, you know, on Friday, as it does. It's a very short legislative session here, and nothing got done because the Senate never voted on. They didn't vote it on. So it's decision time for Glenn Youngton, the governor. This is obviously a legacy project. He's got options to force the vote. But that involves, you know, dragging essentially the whole Virginia budget into this.

So the whole state budget, you know, holding it hostage to this arena negotiation, which would probably be unpopular. He also faces the risk that if he takes it to an up or down vote, it may not pass anymore, right? You know, there's negative momentum on it. Lucas may say, hey, you could cross the aisle vote for this thing. Good luck getting a committee assignment next year. You know, whatever her things are. So there's a lot of calculus. It's on Yonkin's desk now.

The ball's in his court. But he was denied that up or down vote. and so the session has ended without it being voted on. Okay, so the session has ended without it being reinserted into the budget because of Louise Lucas, and it hasn't been voted on. And what you suggested was, Yonkin's got some options. I mean, I think I read that, you know, he could introduce some sort of budget amendment or send it, you know, down as a standalone bill.

But there's, as you described, great risk of that. And he doesn't appear to have the stomach for it. I think he kind of said yesterday in his presser that that's not going to be the move. So is it over? You know, not over until he declares it over, but if that's the direction he goes, this particular iteration of it would be over in the sense that I don't think monumental can come up with the $2 billion to build this thing privately. I think that would be a reach. They need to be up front.

you know, you've got a lot of options, none of which are good options at all in terms of like, could you get foreign investment, right? Saudi, your Qatari investment to come, build the thing and pay you back, right? None of those are palatable options for very obvious reasons. Part of the challenge, you know, is there's a whole state, and, you know, Northern Virginia is a small part of it, but with a lot of people, Luis Lucas, well, I mean, she was doing what was right for her Hampton Roads area, right? That'll play really, really, well in Hampton Road. Hey, the governor, a Northern Virginia guy, wanted to build this thing. I stopped him from doing it. So she faces very little political fallout of risk from this.

This will play very well in her neighborhood. And so that's the challenge for Glenn Youngton is how do you get the whole state on board with something that really only impacts one neighborhood, you know, one part of the state. And for Ted Leonis, if this is played out, if the governor tosses in his hand, it really damages his bargain. position with Muriel Bowser in D.C., who now, she's the only player left standing here. Yeah, I mean, that next step, if we get to that, I actually, Mendelson, Phil Mendelsohn from the D.C. City Council said that their offer, their last offer will stand at $500 million, which, by the way, I actually think is the right move. They're getting a second chance that they weren't

guaranteed, because really a lot of what happened was the city's fault. You know, I don't think you put it all on TED. I want them to stay in the city. There are a lot of people like me who live in the city and want the teams to stay in the city and see Capitol Arena updated and that area resuscitated a bit. But I think that D.C. will be there, and I think it would happen if he said,

we're done with Virginia, and it would happen at the last offer, I think. But you mentioned something that I had kind of forgotten about. remember he was dealing with Middle Eastern money the Qatari fund bought you know a minority stake in monumental why wouldn't he just go to them and say look we're going to keep working on Virginia but I need you know we need a loan here to get this project started or or get them to invest in doing the project you know by contributing a significant amount of it I don't think that's that option's off the table at all because it

it's him, right? We talk about stadiums, and we talk about arenas, but what we're really talking about now, you know, Kevin, is real estate development, right? Even if he, if he chooses to stay in D.C., I'd be happy, you'd be happy. I think the fans would be happy. But Ted wouldn't be happy. He wouldn't get the acres to develop and turn into his own and the mini village and the mini-city that's all you ever hear about with these things now. He wouldn't get that opportunity in D.C. So given the land that's available here and the opportunity, and the wealth of the neighborhood, I think, is a factor here, right? When we talk about stadiums so often, you know, it's public money and what it tries to do

is take a depressed neighborhood and get it up again, right? And MCI Center was just such a great example of that. You never went to that neighborhood, and it revitalized the whole place, Nationals Park. Certainly a version of that as well, and Audi Field down on the Anacostia. Well, Alexandria is doing all right, Kevin. They don't need that lift. So, you know, that would make the case for whether it's Middle Eastern money or Glenn Yonkin, he's a private equity guy, private equity money. There's certainly a lot of that floating around.

I do think there are other options. They're just not as exciting as getting the taxpayers to do it for you. Yeah. How does this ultimately make Ted look in your eyes? Well, and he is the winner of the bad timing award here because if this happens a couple years ago, I do think the framing is, hey, at least Dan Snyder. Snyder's on now, and so everybody kind of gets looked at in their own thing. Certainly, the learners have really struggled in that spotlight as well,

in terms of their spending on the team and their commitment to the nationals and maybe their unrealistic view of what their team was worth. And I think with Ted, it's interesting to me because he owns two teams, you know, two major teams, obviously, you know, owns many more things as well. But the split is really dramatic. If you ask a Capitals fan, is Ted Leonez's a good owner? I think most of them are none. But yeah, we like Ted.

Got us the Stanley Cup, takes care of the team, good game to experience. And if you ask the Wizards fan, what do you think of Ted Leones? He's a bum, which is the results on the field, but also kind of the way the teams have been managed over the years as well. So I do think in a broad sense for people who hadn't been introduced to him, this is not a good first introduction, for sure. And then this woman, El Louise Lucas, I mean, I saw the tweet that she put out, you know, essentially saying she's the one that buried this deal with the, you know, the headstone in the cemetery with the dirt covering the grave meme. And I mean, it just cracks me up the adults that turn into children on social media to, to, for political purposes. I mean, she apparently, right, got a lot of what she was looking for in a quid pro quid. move or request, and she still stood her ground and said no, right?

Wasn't there some sort of toll thing she was looking for and maybe even some marijuana legalization? So, I mean, and yet she's standing firm. Yeah, you know, this is, there are people, I've texted with Democrats, not Republicans, but Democrats in her party on the Capitol who are really confused by this, because they They thought she played the game really well to the end. The final offer, as we understand it, is the governor was going to kick him $300 million to take all the toll roads out of Hampton Roads, which was something she had asked for, and was poised to legalize the sale of marijuana in Virginia, which is not legal right now,

another one of her priorities. It sure felt like she got what she wanted, and then in the end decided, nah, I'd rather spike the ball in Glenn Youngen's face and did that. there are people in the Democratic Party who say, you know, look, she may have scored what she perceived as a personal win for her brand and her legacy, but she hurt the party in a big time way and that, you know, these are things they have no chance of accomplishing without holding an arena hostage or something like that. Yeah, I mean, look, for somebody who wanted them to stay in D.C., great job, Mrs. Lucas. Great job. But as someone who fantasies,

he's himself to be adult-like. I mean, about as low rent and low class a way of handling victory as I think I've ever seen, including her standing over the governor yesterday. Oh, that's exactly where I was headed.

He gives his press conference, and she's just hovering over his shoulder the entire time. My goodness. Unbelievable. All right, let's... So netting it out, netting it out, your prediction is... I don't think that this happens in its current form, but I'm also not. I think the declarations that it's dead or premature.

I think Youngkin's work in the numbers, is it worth it for me to force it to a vote, even with the negative publicity of the guys holding the whole state hostage over this vote? Wouldn't surprise me if he changes his mind in the end because he's looking for a legacy project. He's a four-year governor. There's term limits in Virginia. This is kind of his last chance to get one of those. so I think we may see one more push towards it. But if this doesn't come through, I do think Ted's best offer at that point probably becomes going back to D.C.,

which would be a huge win for D.C. and a huge loss for Ted, who kind of villainized himself for no reason. Yeah, that's the thing, right? Is that if he ends up back in D.C. for the $500 million, it was quite a two-plus month. I mean, and they've been trying so hard to change the narrative. I don't think they really understood the reaction or predicted it very, very well. You know, the one thing, and I talked to Tommy about this, I mean, with, you know, one-term governors in Virginia, it has to be about legacy because obviously it's not about re-election for Yonkin.

Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, where do you go after your governor, right? If you're lucky, he's going to try to run for president, I'm sure in 28. Yeah, that's it. You've got four years to make your name get something done. I would be surprised if this is truly him walking away from. And I think it's probably more of a step back. What's the word? Recalibration, is that what Dan Quinn said?

I think we're recalibrating, not rebuilding down in Virginia. All right, let's talk about recalibrating. So we haven't talked in a while. Free agency first. what do you think they'll do? What would you like them to do? Well, look, you can only sign who's on the market, right? I'd love for them to go get an impact left tackle to benefit their new quarterback. I'd love for them to get an impact tight end, but you know, you can only sign the guys who are available. So I think a lot of this

money goes unused for that reason is there's only going to be a limited number of people. As we talk right now, Chris Jones isn't off the board yet. You know, that's a guy who I'd be comfortable saying, go chase him. He's an impact player. Now you don't need to draft edge in the draft, but there's very few of those guys out there. There's a lot more. He'll fill the hole for a season, and we're still looking for our long-term solution. I do think we'll get one of these name running backs, right? The name of the game is make life easier for your quarterback who you're bringing in at

number two. I think a good running back does that. So it won't surprise me if they end up with one of the names, whether it be Sequin, Henry, you know, Echler, and Madison, go down the list. There's a lot of them. Interesting. I just think there's so few paths to improvement, and that's one of them. That's interesting.

I would not have, and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. We don't know because we don't know this group. But a Barclay or a Jacobs or a Henry, which are the three biggest names out there, or I guess you could throw an Eckler, with Robinson Jr., and I think Rodriguez is, I think he's got potential. That would surprise me. A replacement for Curtis. Samuel as sort of a hybrid, you know, hybrid, you know, slot, backfield,

that they need. But that would be interesting. God, man, that would be big news. Can you imagine if they had Sequin Barclay along with that rookie quarterback? So let's go to the draft, because, again, we haven't talked in several weeks. What will they do at number two? Don't give me a name yet. What will they do at number two?

I think that, you know, the vast majority of, of my possibilities are they're going to turn in the card and take a quarterback. I think it makes a ton of sense in their spot where they're out of the franchise. I don't think the bears are interested in trading out of one, and I don't think these guys want to trade too far back out of quarterback range. I think it's far more likely they turn in a card. All right. So who do they pick?

That's a great question, Kevin. I'm putting my chips on Jayden Daniels as my guy, not the guy's old take, but my guy. I just love his ability to work off schedule to make the plays. His arm, we sleep on how good his arm. It's freakishly good, you know, to make the big plays that you have to make to win in the NFL right now. I don't like the people who go so hard on one of the two to disparage the other. Like, I don't think break made is a bum. I think he's a really good quarterback who you could plug in and get good

production out of. There's stuff to clean up there. He throws lazy sometimes. I think that would get cleaned up about week two when he gets destroyed and, you know, face planted into the dirt by an NFL defensive lineman. I think that'd get it out of him real quick. I think it's all stuff you could coach out of him. I think it's too early for J.J. McCarthy. I think the media machine's going to be working hard on J.J. between here and there, but I don't consider him a serious contender at this point. Another one for Jaden Daniels. You and I are on the same page. We'll see what they do. Thanks for doing this. Hope you're well. Doing great. Hope all is well up there. Congrats to your Terps today. And I'll be bringing my show up to D.C. next week for the ACC tournament. Wish your Terps were playing in it. But that's a different topic for a different day. Well, Michael Phillips really understanding the ACC mindset. First of all, yes, the Lady Turps.

upset the number one seed in the Big Ten tournament, Ohio State today. I don't know if that gets them into the tournament. I know that they were kind of a bubble team, but now they'll take on, I don't even know who they play next. They play the four seed or the five seed, but that was a big upset today for Brenda Fries and company. And yes, I wish with the ACC tournament in town next week, I wish Maryland were still in the ACC and we're getting ready to play ACC tournament games. Instead, we'll be in Indianapolis, I think. I don't even know where the Big Ten tournament is this year.

I think it's in Indianapolis. So close to College Park. All right, I'll talk to you soon. But maybe next week with you in town for the ACC tournament. That'd be great. I'll get you soon. Michael Phillips, everybody. One of the best.

Really appreciate it. Up next, John Kime, that third part of my conversation with John, right after, these words from a few of our sponsors. If you have a moment to rate and review the show, especially on Spotify, Apple, it's much appreciated if you do that. Apple in particular gives you a chance to rate us up to five stars and write a quick review. This review comes from skins with Z's at the end. He writes or she writes, Best Pod and the DMV. Love the show.

I tune in every day. I wish there was some way we could suggest topics. Do you think the NFL would ever have the draft before free agency? Wouldn't be a bad idea. Anyways, continue the great work, peace, and blessings. Yeah, you can suggest topics the way you just did. An Apple review of Love the Show and got an idea for a topic. Of course, I get a lot of tweets.

I get a lot of emails through the Kevin Sheehan Show.com website at Kevin Sheehan, DC on Twitter. and I do read through a lot of those typically right before the radio show begins or right before the podcast is recorded because I find that when they're fresh in my mind and they have been interesting or provocative or informative that I tend to use them more often and have a much better and more sort of spontaneous reaction to them. So I love when I get suggestions for topics. Now, this one, you know, I looked this up after reading your review. Until 1976, the NFL held the draft right essentially when the season ended or in season.

From 1968 through 1975, the draft was held essentially two weeks after the Super Bowl, two to three weeks after the Super Bowl in January and February. It was in 1976 that they went to early April. And then in 1977, so 23, 24, 47 years, we've had it at the end of April or the early part of May. There were many, many years ago drafts in season in November, in early December. But I think the reason that they ultimately settled on a spring date is because the draft started to gain popularity. And there was a lot of work to do for the draft and teams wanted more time to prepare for the draft. And your season ends, you know, a lot of seasons end in December or January, early January.

When the Super Bowl's over, though, what we've had, obviously, for many years now, we used to have things like the East-West Shrine. Ryan game and the North South game and the blue gray game. And now there's a senior bowl and there's an Indy combine and there are pro days. And I think it just takes a lot more time to prepare for the draft than it does for free agency. When you're really talking about evaluating players you've already evaluated in many cases before and you've got a lot of pro tape on. So that's my guess. Who knows? I mean, look, the NFL has spread out everything they do so perfectly. It seems to never die down in terms of the interest in the NFL because there's always something. I mean, you went from the Super Bowl to the combine to free agency. That'll lead into the draft, which will lead into a brief break before everybody's back. Well, I mean, many camps and OTAs get attention now in May and June. and then by the time you get to the end of July, you're in training camp and preseason games are right around the corner. I forgot the schedule, too, the schedule release, which is in mid-May. Man, it has become a 12-month out-of-the-year show, that is for sure. All right, wanted to go back to yesterday and give you the final part of my conversation with John Kime, where we focused primarily on the draft, although we got into some other things as well.

I asked John what the most likely scenario was for Washington at the top of the draft. Stay put and draft a quarterback at two. So you've been watching a lot of the quarterbacks, and you're a big college football fan like I am. What would your board look like? Well, I think based on talent alone, I mean, Caleb, you're going to put up there because he does things that others can't do. But I think the guy that I still, and we talked about this, and I go back and forth. I think the guy I'm probably most intrigued by is Jake because, you know, and I say that

in multiple ways. The guy makes plays, and he certainly scares teams. There's also a lot of stuff that I don't know that I'm trying to find out, like, what does this mean? Not that it's a problem, but what does it mean that, you know, they don't throw the ball over the middle of the field lot. Is that on him? Is that Bryant-Cellie? What is that? You know, he throws from a lot of clean pockets, but what is that, does that, not so much does it bother you? Because who, Some guys are like, they want to see guys go from clean pockets because it gives them an idea of how they're reading through the progression.

But then other people say, like, they'll just cutups of the messy pockets because that's what you get in the NFL. You know, but I also like what I like are, you know, is the fact that I, the guy gets hit a ton. He gets back up. He competes. So you have to pull, like, if I knew that you can pull that out of him, then he's my guy.

because I just, I see, you see all this other potential. If you can pull that part out of him, but that's a competitor thing. Then, like I was talking to somebody earlier, about, like, well, his time at Arizona State, and those numbers weren't good, but, you know. He played some really good games in Arizona State. Exactly. But how did he compete? To me, that's where you learn about, you know,

you learn about various aspects of somebody's toughness, how they compete in that situation. So that's like my next step is to watch more games from Arizona State to see more of that and just how a guy compete. Well, watch the Oregon game, his freshman year when he basically strapped the team to his back as a freshman and beat Oregon and knocked him out of the playoff race. Yeah. And I actually remember that game. And that's when, because I remember watching that game thinking, oh, this kid's going to be fun to watch him this couple years. So I think I think I'm most intrigued by him just because I think, I think,

There's still stuff that I'm trying to learn more about him and what it means because, like, sometimes, like, and I, we talk. Like, there are, sometimes, I'm like, does this, should this bother me that, you know, that, like, with Drake May, a lot of times I do see more messy pockets where he's got to, where you've got to slide in the pocket, reset your shoulders, get your eyes in the right spot, and throw a tight window throw over the middle. And I've seen him do that. There's some of those throws are really, really impressive. and I haven't seen that as much from Jaden, but is that a concern, or is it just a, it didn't develop that way, what? Yeah, I mean, I...

I don't want to ping a guy for that. I mentioned this a couple times in the last week, because I like Jaden Daniels a lot. You and I've talked about this. I like him a lot. I don't mind Drake May either. I really kind of, Michael Pennix is really, I'm going back and realizing how much I thought he was really good

in watching games. but Jaden Daniels and LSU's offense face the fewest third downs of any team in the country, and it's not even close. And so when do you typically see quarterbacks drop back potentially get a messier pocket with more blitz pressure than is on third and five, third and seven? And that's usually when you see more intermediate throws. Here we saw it on every down, but that's different. What did you say? In this city, we saw it on most down.

Yeah. But I'm just saying that one of the reasons the number of intermediate throws made wasn't super high is they didn't have a lot of intermediate throw down in distances. They just kept getting chunk play after chunk play on first and second down. Well, you know, and so yeah. But that's so like, that's what I say. I think that, like I get all that. And it's not even saying that he can't do it. Yeah, you didn't see it enough.

Exactly. So then you're trying to measure it, and then you look at, okay, look at the receivers he's throwing to. But as an Ohio State fan, I did not hold that against C.J. Stroud. You know, I knew guys like, you know, you could tell guys who were made by the receivers versus helping the receivers. And I thought CJ was like that. I think Justin Fields was really good with him, too. I just think that CJ was more NFL ready. And I believe that last year, too.

But so that's what it's not saying, but when you watch, like, when I was watching out of you, they're playing Florida, and he's thrown an eight-yard pass to Malik neighbors, and he's turned into 25 yards. Then I'm watching North Carolina, they throw an eight-yard pass that turns into an eight-yard game. I mean, because they, and I know they have one good receiver, but like, you know, they didn't have Malik neighbors, they didn't have Brian Thomas Jr. So, but, but so then I, I have, you know, then you also have to be, okay,

then how does he make them better? And I think that he, I think he throws, like, he throws a beautiful fade ball, a beautiful fable. And so I think there's a trust factor that he developed with throwing down the field. Now, some of that's with who you're throwing to. And then other people have told me, too, like, he's facing more complex defenses in the SEC. No doubt. A&M, Missouri, Bama, for sure. Yes, yeah. And so you have to take that into account. So, you know, there are things I'm concerned about with each one of these guys. So do you have Daniels ahead of May? I think today I would

And then tomorrow it might be different Yeah no I hear you Yeah because I've talked to You know why Because I've talked to a lot of people About Jason today And I'm just like Okay that makes

So but I also like There are things that I For me with him There are things I'd want to be satisfied with It's just like You know The size thing It

It's the body frame Concerns me Right Because you can't play the way he did And survive in the NFL. But, you know, if you can help with that, and if you give him, like, you know, can you set up X number of safe throws throughout the game?

And I think you can do that, right? You know, the crossers or whatever, some screens, whatever it is, you can do some of that to help with the issue. And then here's another thing, Kevin, develop a run game and maybe take some pressure off the rookie quarterback. Well, boy, that's that, no, no, why would you want to do that? Let's just throw it 800 times. Yeah, because it's going to speed up his development.

Well, you know, it's so funny because there was a moment at one point during the season. It was the Philly game when they really started to go to some of the quick game, but they weren't lowering the attempts. And I'm like, I'm okay with this. Like, I'm okay if they're, you know, screens, quick game, bubble. as long as you're not dropping them back, five, seven-step drops over and over again like they did against Buffalo, like they did against, you know, Arizona. And to me, the pass-attempt number in that scheme didn't bother me, but he just, he waffled between that scheme and a lot of pure drop back.

Yeah, no, I think that that's it. And, you know, the hard part, like I said, the hard part for Sam, but one of the differences to me were between he and Jacobi, why Jacoby, I think, had some success. It's just that 6-foot-4-inch height. No doubt. Because the line where Sam had some heart, where the hard thing for him was, if the line's getting pushed back,

it's harder for a guy who's 6-1-2-see over you. And there were times where I'm watching Jacoby, he's not moving out of there because he can see. Like, this is opening up, just hold your ground, get rid of it now. And, you know, like where Sam's got to get out of there because, and that's the six-fold. one versus six four, but, and this is what other people there would tell me, too, you know, like, they have to mimic, they had to mimic the New Orleans model with Drew Brees, which is

build a really strong interior and create gaps in that pass rush, and that didn't happen enough. And that's not on how. And I think where Sam, where you talk to people there, like, where he could have improved, too, is with, like, anticipation and all that. But it was, that's why I say it was a mismatch. It was a poor match between quarterback and line. Veteran quarterback with that line, much better. Stronger line with this kid, much better. And so it was poorly put together and executed.

Maybe we can save this for the next conversation, but it's hard for me not to just bring it up now. You know, because you just said it was not the right setup. So why did Ron hire Eric? enemy. We're going back to Andy Reid. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Say it. Say it.

Yeah, I mean, I did Andy, he did Andy read a favor? Well, I think he had a favor, but I also think there was a definite, there's a couple things, and I don't think it was just that. I do think that for Ron, like that there was a, some things need to change. Right. and I don't know if he fully grasped just the impact of some of the, of some of how it was going to go. But I do think some of it was the desire to shake it up a little bit,

and I don't blame him for that. I don't. And, you know, so I think that was part of it. And then I think the heart part, and I think he would agree with this, that he abdicated a little bit too much. No doubt. And players talked about, And I think he would probably agree with that.

But I don't think it was, I don't think it was, I think you're using the recommendation of Andy Reid as well, because I don't think he's going to hire him just as a favor because that was a must-win season for that. And so if you're going to, you know, but that's why I say, I think, I think there was a definite part of it was the desire to shake things up and, and, and he, he has a conscience, and he thinks in those terms. But you could have done that in a lot of different, and a lot of other hires,

like hiring Dave Conallis as an example. You know, but, but yeah, no, I mean, look, we're covering old ground. It's just that, you know, a year ago, you know, I'm sitting here and, you know, a lot of people were really thrilled and thought that they had pulled off the coup of the century, hiring Eric B. Enemy.

And I'm like, well, he was. wouldn't have, he'd be in Kansas City if Washington didn't hire him. There were no other opportunities for him. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure he would have been there. Yeah, exactly. His contract's up. Yeah. So I don't know that he would have been there. But I think the other thing, even last year, like when they bring somebody on, I kind of like to see, okay, what are they seeing? What could be the net benefit here? But the thing that, you know, and so you saw, like,

okay, you'd hear attention to detail, you know, this thing and that thing. And, and, but when we didn't know, and what, because despite what the enemy would say, he was not the primary play caller there. So this was a new situation for him where everything was on him. And he all, you know, he, I would say bristle, because he didn't bristle at questions. He might correct you or he might say, you know, like I always like dealing with the guy. You know, he was, he was always very good with us. But, you know, if you said, like, well, he should first tell you, well, I was OC for six years, like, yes, but we also know, Andy Reid was there. This is your show.

So that's what we didn't know is how he would handle the full-time role with that, but also then you throw in, like, it's going to take a little of the time because you've got a quarterback with one start who's now your guy. You're adding in new starters at four-line spots, new starters of four-line spots. It doesn't happen overnight. And then you throw in the fact that the defense was historically bad here, unexpectedly bad. and then it just makes it everything harder.

But then I think it's like, okay, like, what do you learn about him along the way? You know, it does. It takes time. It does, but it didn't work, and for a few reasons. But, yes, it was, that was always the caveat. And I would say this, like, even with this staff, with the caveat with this offensive staff, we don't know, like, I think there's a lot that I like individually about this. We don't know how collectively it's going to look or how it's going to go.

And we don't know, you know, with Kingsbury, you hear some people worry like, I mean, the knock in Arizona was, does this offense get the quarterbacks? Does it cause the quarterbacks to wear down? I don't know, that's whether it does or not, like, that's one of the things that people would say around the league. And so how is it going to look here? Now, I think, like, there are some of these coaches I really like with the addition of them. So I think it, I think it potentially is a good staff. but you still have to see it's the first time working together.

Of course. It's the first time the front office is working together during this off season. Right. Right. I think this group will end up getting it. I just, you don't know when. Yeah.

All right. Two more to finish up. And actually, the first one is a real quick one because I haven't had you on since Quinn was hired. I don't think I have. Maybe on radio, but not on the podcast. Just for everybody listening.

And look, John and I have had several conversations about this. But for those that still think that they got, you know, their distant choice in Dan Quinn, they had to settle for Dan Quinn that they were just devastated at not being able to interview and get Ben Johnson. Or Mike McDonald turned him down flat. Can you just, you know, for the record, as an actual person covering the team to tell everybody how this went down and how thrilled they are to have Dan Quinn? I mean, so in the beginning, there was no doubt that people of interest,

Ben Johnson was high on their, though with Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn was always at or near the top of their list because he checked every box that they wanted. And, you know, the perception outside of here became, oh, it's all Ben Johnson. And then it was, oh, it's all McDonald's. But Ben, excuse me, Dan Quinn was all.

always, always, always a guy they liked. And they heard, you know, and I knew this personally because I experienced the same thing, that if I talked to anybody who coached with him, played for him, worked for him, they all said the same thing about the guy. Like they, it wasn't just always a great guy, you know, it was a, I had one coach somebody, he set the standard better in the building than any coach I've been around. This guy's been around some good coach. You know, I talked to Matt LaFleur, who he was,

he passed him over as an OC in Atlanta after Kyle left, because I didn't know what Matt would think. I haven't talked to Matt about him. I knew at the time that he was disappointed by that. So I called him, like, he loves the guy. So, like, and, you know, why is that? But this is what they were experiencing, too. Like, I was told, and I wrote a big piece on inside the hire of him a couple weeks ago,

but it was I was told that they, significantly more people reached out to them about Dan Quinn than anybody else on their list. So it was like to think he was some settled, that they settled for him is ludicrous. They, like one thing I know about this group, and I'm applying it to the quarterback search as well. They are a go-through-the-process group, keep an open-mind group.

So they would purposefully, after these interviews, they wouldn't sit there's, oh, my God, that was a great interview. It's, oh, my God. They would try to detach the emotion as much as they could because they didn't want to be tainted by it. And it's hard to do that. But the point is, like, there was never, like, it wasn't like, oh, my God, we've got to have Ben Johnson.

Oh, my God, Mike McDonald-Left, never the case. This is that, because, like, in the beginning, with the GM search, with Adam Peters. Now, that went fast, but it also, it also started long before the end of the season. But he was the guy they targeted after doing their research. He was the guy they targeted. With the coat search, and then he was far and away, the top choice. And the coat search from the beginning, people tell me, like, there isn't that one guy that they just have to have, like, the way with Adam Peters.

They liked the depth of their class. And, like, Rahim Morris was a legitimate candidate. So when Ben Johnson stays put and when Mike McDonald goes to Seattle, it's like, okay, check, check, you know, who's left? This is a, you know, but it wasn't a, oh, my God, what are we going to do now? Like, they hadn't even talked to Ben Johnson in person. How could they, how could he be tops on their list? And it was a two-hour Zoom interview that they had with him.

You know what I mean? Like they're not, like, I think the, yeah, I'm going rambling on with it. But it also, I just like Dan Quinn all along, Kevin, and again, we talked about this. Like, you would hear like, you know, Ben Johnson is not a lot, right? And like, and they like Dan Quinn. But I also knew from my own experience, this is what they're looking for. This is what Dan Quinn offers. Oh, one plus one probably equals two here.

like and they even with McDonald I think McDonald went to the best place for him and they got the

best guy for them here because I think with McDonald you know and I had someone tell me this too like

probably the best thing for him is going to a G. Having a GM who is an experienced GM whereas like

if you put an inexperienced GM with an experienced head coach who's on the defensive side of the ball

how is it is a little bit harder to build that way and so like that's why it was also So it's, you know, that's why it's, you know, so I think that's another reason why for Quinn,

it just made sense from here. But I know, like, I know how pumped up Adam Peters was after they got him. I mean, it's just, so yeah, I'm rambling because I just know that the narratives that were out there did not match what was going on behind the scene. Right. All right. Last one real quickly. Do you have any hunch on who Adam Peters, who the front office, who Dan Quinn likes at number two?

I have no clue. No, no. And so, you know, it's funny. I was talking to somebody the other day who has a good relationship with Peters and has known him for a long time. And I asked him their questions, like, I have no idea. He's like, he is when it comes to that stuff, he is really tight-lipped. So that's what I'll say. I don't know.

I know, like, you try to read the T-leaves of what they say. And, again, listen to what they want and then match it up with the quarterback. Right. But the problem with that is what they want seems to apply to all three quarterbacks. Well, that is a problem. That is a problem. But, you know, there are things that you like, is it, you know, but yeah. Yes, that is a problem. So I don't know where there, where I don't know. I don't know who they're, and I also don't think that they settled on a guy now. Right. Again, like, they're going to want, like, I think step one, you watch the film. Step two, you're meeting and a person to come by step three, pro days and visit. I think those visits are going to solidify. And you can, like, you can sit there and say, you know what, I really like, you know, quarterback X, where it's Daniels and May. And like the

bills, for example, when they settled on Josh Allen, I know they really liked it because you need their quarterback. You knew he probably wasn't a go to a certain spot when they settled on him, though, is like little things. They visited him out in Wyoming and they took him out to lunch. And like one of the things that feel of it was how he treated other people in that restaurant. the weight staff and all that. And not that, like, you know, but that was like the final thing, like, okay, this kid's legit.

He can be a leader of a franchise because of, you know, they like the way he treats other people, et cetera. And not, I mean, if you don't have the arms, you don't have the athleticism, the other stuff isn't going to matter. But if it's close, you're going to look at all sorts of things. And just even the way, like, you need to see it at the pro date,

how did their teammates react to them in that setting? That will tell you a lot about them, too. You know, I know for the Browns at Baker-Mafio, part of the thing was the way people responded to him at his pro day. And, you know, so there's a lot of little things that's still to be learned, which is why I don't think they have settled on a guy at this point. Great job. Appreciate it. Took too much of your time.

Part of that's your fault. But I always love having these conversations with you on the air and off of it. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Kevin. John Kime, everybody. Thanks to John. Thanks to Michael Phillips for jumping on with us. I'm going to do another show over the weekend.

I'll have Nick Ackridge from Pro Football Focus on with me, and we'll preview free agency, we'll talk draft and get Nick's breakdown on the quarterbacks. He's a senior data analyst with PFF and a huge Washington fan. We've had Nick on the show many times, but I'm going to get another show out there because I think Monday's show, we will wait until later in the afternoon,

because I think once the tampering period opens, there could be a lot of news on Monday. It's possible that a lot of the news will be confined to other teams. But we'll get a show out definitely on Monday. It just might be on the later side. So between now and then, I will put a shorter show out over the weekend with Nick Ackridge. All right, that's it. Have a good Friday night.