The Kevin Sheehan Show - Future Mode For Wizards

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

Kevin and Thom today on the Wizards 3-way deal with the Celtics/Grizzlies and then at the end of the show they cover the breaking trade news with Golden State. The Monumental Network, Ted Leonsis, the NFL's gambling policy and more on the show as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. I'm here. Tommy is here. Don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify.

Follow us as well. Got a five-star rating from Seedog who just wrote Best Show. Best in show as well. We are. That's all you have to do on Apple and Spotify. very helpful following us as a big deal as well. Tommy, it's the NBA draft tonight. I'm going to tune in to Monumental, the Monumental Network for some hard-hitting commentary on the Wizards draft tonight. That's how I'm going to watch it. How are you going to watch it?

Do I get the monumental network on my cable? I'm not sure if I do. You do. Of course you do. Don't you? I would think. you do. I saw your guy Matt Paris the other day on the announcement. This is inside baseball stuff. We're not going to stick with it very long. I promise you. But for those of you who don't know, monumental sports network, all right, Ted's behemoth media giant, they bought NBC Sports Washington, and they flipped it the other day, and now it's called monumental Sports Network. And they put out, you know, an announcement on Twitter, and I saw your guy from the Washington Times, Matt Paris, who I like a lot.

He tweeted out the Monumental Sports Network announcement, and he wrote, It's been three days since Bradley Beale has been traded, and Ted Leonis's owned media network has had no coverage of it. But hooray, more robust team coverage. Yeah, I mean, this is going to be, you know, it's so funny is you know this working for 980 as the flagship station for the football team for all those years and then owned by Red Zebra, which Dan Snyder was the majority shareholder of, we got accused by, you know, typically our competitors of being the house station for the team.

But of course, it was the, you know, it was not that at all. You know, we were never, we would never go three or four days without covering a massive trade if the team told us, well, it's not finalized yet. You can't talk about it. It's not the way, you know, people want instantaneous reaction. This thing does look a bit like Pravda in the making, doesn't it? Yes, it does, which wouldn't surprise me. I know for a fact that the old NBC Sports Washington, which is only like a couple of days ago, since it switched to monumental. I know that talent on that network

were told that they to be very careful about critical analysis of the team, which is pretty hard to do. Given the Wizards have been so bad, and in particular, nothing bad about Ted Leones's. So I'll be real curious.

And that's never an edict that we got. Never. Nobody wants to believe it, but we never got that kind of edict at 980. No, and look, look, Dan's the worst owner ever, okay? Ted is nowhere near, Dan. We all understand that.

But Dan Snyder, Tommy, the truth is, I don't even think he knew he owned this, that Red Zebrae own the radio station. Maybe that was just what it was. But actually, that's not true. But we never, we never got told what to say and what, not to say. And if, you know, it's like I do remember, and I've told this story before,

our general manager at the time, not our program director, or general manager at the time. And I won't mention his name. But he did come to me at one point during a horrific season. I think it was the 20, I don't know which season. 2013 or 2014, one of those terrible seasons. And he said, do you think there's any way that, you know, you guys could be just more positive about the team.

And he had just come from a board meeting. I remember that. And I just said, oh, my God, what did they say to you? They didn't say anything. But I just think, you know, you guys are killing them here recently. And I just said to him what I've said many times, and you know this to be true. And you've said it many times. In this medium, and by the way, in the medium that they'll have, if you're not honest,

you'll end up with, you know, the audience that like Larry Michael had for all those years. And he had an audience. There is an audience for that. You know, it's not as robust. But it's, you know, it's a house show or network. You know, they're going to be waving the pom-poms and the penance. Isn't that what we used to call the team flags, penance? weren't they called penance?

Yes. Penance. But I don't know. Look, to be honest with you, I don't watch that station anyway unless it's for a game. The only reason I ever watched NBC Sports Washington was for games, you know, for Wizards games and Caps games. I didn't watch a lot of Caps games unless they were playoff games, but I watched Wizards games. And I think that's, Rachel Nichols is doing a show on that station. You know they're paying her.

Oh, I'm sure they are. Of course. She wouldn't be doing that without getting paid legitimately. Yeah, I mean, they're expanding, that they're making a big push. Look, and this is tied to the Mason settlement, not that we're anywhere close to that team being sold, but it is one more roadblock for the nationals to possibly be sold. Ted needs that baseball team on his network.

he needs those 162 games for programming. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, you know, because we talked about this before the show, I did this poll, and I did this segment on the show the other day, with the news about the Masson potential, you know, potential, you know, I know it was just for that five-year period where they came to a resolution and Masson paid the Nats another $100 million for the period of 1212 through 2012 through 2016.

I mean, it's not completely resolved, but I guess a major roadblock maybe is out of the way for the sale eventually to happen. I had Chelsea on the show yesterday, and Chelsea said she thinks it'll be sold by this time next year, or before the season starts next year, actually. So before April of next year, do you agree with that? That may be. And I'm writing about this tomorrow in the Washington. times. You know, I mean, we assume that, you know, this next negotiation for the next five years

from 2017 through 21, I think it is, 16 through 21, will go easier because there's less money involved, because there were less subscribers. But the Angel's family would get their way of is they'd rather pay lawyers than pay defendants, than pay plaintiffs, or in this case, the learners. I don't know why that philosophy will change in this second go-round. And then, let's say we get the massive deal out of the way, and that's not at all a roadblock. Then you've got to negotiate with the learners. Okay? We haven't even gotten to that point, really. I mean, they had some preliminary talks, but I'm sure since the last time they've talked, the learners probably think the price of their franchise has gone up. Right.

Because of valuations of other teams in Major League Baseball, the Phillies, which is valued at $2.8 billion. Yeah. So the negotiations with the learners are going to be difficult. I mean, that's a lot of time by this time next year. I certainly think it's possible, but we're just talking one roadblock in what will be a series of roadblocks. Well, the thing that I was getting to was I did this on radio the other day and I put out a poll on Twitter. Do you want Ted Leonis to buy the team? And I, and overwhelmingly, you know, two thirds, actually 68% to 32% said no.

68% of the people that voted said no, they don't. And look, I don't even know if Ted would be a good baseball owner or not. He hasn't been a good basketball owner, but I guess he's been a good hockey owner. All of these guys in town have benefited from Snyder being in town. There's no doubt about that because we don't have a rock star owner of any of the sports teams in town. And maybe Ted would prove to be a rock star baseball owner. I don't know if he would or wouldn't. What would be interesting to me, and I don't know the answer to this,

is would it be helpful or hurtful to the marketplace if one person owned three of the four professional sports teams, major pro sports teams in town? Because I don't think that exists anywhere. I don't think anybody owns more than two in a major market where there are four. You know, the major markets were there for professional teams, you know, a basketball, football, baseball, and hockey team. Stan Cronky owns two in Denver, you know, the avalanche and the nuggets. I think Ted would become the first to own three or more. And I don't know if that's a healthy thing or not a healthy thing.

I know from a business standpoint for them, you know, the centralizing of, you know, all these functions on the business side, accounting, and marketing and merchandising and all that. They'd benefit from that, you know, because they've already got infrastructure for all of that. But I don't know if it would be good for the fans in town. My gut feeling is that it wouldn't be. Because eventually he's going to have to play favorites. He's also going to be potentially stretched thin.

But then again, there may not be somebody else willing to spend $2 billion plus on the Nats. I don't know. What do you think? You know, it was a small field of people who were interested. Right. You know, when the team was first put up for sale, and Ted was considered the frontrunner, maybe once the massive deal is out of the way, maybe other buyers will then possibly emerge. Yeah, okay.

So there was a lot that happened yesterday. Yesterday, for those of you that reached out and said, where's the show yesterday? I did do a show yesterday. Every time I got ready to do something, it seemed like the story on Porzengis was changing. And even when I put the show out, it changed two or three more times after that.

But anyway, today we have, you know, all of, the, you know, information on the Porzingis trade. And it's draft night tonight. So there's going to be a lot of activity in the NBA today. But the Wizards have been really busy this week, you know, going back to this weekend. And the Beal deal still isn't finalized. They still haven't come up with what the answer is to the Chris Paul piece to this. But Christop's Porzingis got traded to Boston in a three-team deal, not with the clippers, as I described on the podcast late yesterday afternoon, but with the Memphis Grizzlies and the Boston Celtics. And they got back in return, Tyos Jones, Muscala, Gallinari, and a 2023 second round pick.

The Grizzlies got Marcus Smart, and the Celtics got Porzingis and two first round picks. Like they got the best player and they got two first round picks. And a lot of people went nuts over this, Tommy. And I'll try to explain it. But there's a lot that we don't know. But needless to say, the Wizards traded in terms of the players that got dealt this week in these two major deals. They traded the two best players. And they didn't get one first round pick back.

If you had told me a week ago, they're going to try. trade Beal and Porzingis over the next seven days. How many first rounders do you think they'll get back? I would have said probably two, hopefully it's three. They didn't get any back. And they didn't get any back because they didn't have any leverage in trading these players. Beal had $200 million plus on his contract and a no trade clause. And he and Mark Bartolstein, his agent, got to pick the team that they went to.

So the Wizards had to deal with Phoenix. They couldn't, you know, have it be an open market, a competition. And then Porzingis had a player option. So Porzingis, they could have actually gotten nothing back for him if he had just opted out and become a free agent. A free agent, yeah. In the Celtics case, they had Marcus Smart, who first of all has three years left on his deal,

at 17 to 18 million a year. And by the way, it's a hell of a player. Now, the Wizards did do better, I believe, in this second iteration of the trade, knocking the Clippers and Marcus Morris and a first round pick, which was number 30 overall. It was the last pick in the first round. I think they actually did better by getting Tyos Jones, because Tyos Jones probably becomes a marketable asset for them. I don't know if he'll play for them this year. If he does, he'll be their starting point guard for sure. And then he's a guy that people may be interested in at the trade deadline or next year. And they ended up getting a second round pick, another second round pick, but it's only five spots down from the pick they were going to get from the clippers. But I don't know. I can't tell you that they did poorly when there was a chance that they weren't going to get anything back for Porzingis. and they had zero ability to call the shots and the Beal deal.

I tend to want to lean with Winger and Will Dawkins and Travis Schlingk know what they're doing and they did the best that they could. Look, they've cleared the decks. This is a tear down to the stud situation. They're getting rid of everything and they're clearing the decks for the accumulation of draft choices and, you know, one-year bad contracts, that's what they're going to become a clearinghouse for over the next two years. I mean, they're doing it.

They're going to, and by the way, they are going to be horrible. I mean, get ready for 15 to 20 wins for the next three years. And hopefully it'll land on some really good players that, you know, starting in 2025, 2025, 2026, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel. but that's how long it'll probably take. Yeah. You know, I think you have to. I would agree that I think the new hierarchy of management on the basketball side,

all with impressive resumes and all with glowing, you know, recommendations did the best they could. I mean, but they were handed a big bag of shit. And, you know, they had to figure out how to get rid of it. Yeah. And, you know, as we've said, I don't want to keep banging a horse about it. But Ted put them in this situation. The owner put them where they are. That's the crime is, are the circumstances they found themselves in.

Not necessarily what they did to work their way out of those circumstances. But if we just take the position that a lot of people who are very optimistic and basically flush the past, try to learn from it, but flush it and move on, they're doing the right thing right now. They're doing the right thing right now. I mean, the crime is not necessarily the moves they made. it's the position they found themselves in where they were forced to make those moves. Right. Well, these people like Winger and Dawkins and Schlank, they knew what position they were in when they took these jobs. They knew that they weren't going to have much leverage with Beal.

It's not like they found out about the no trade clause after they took the gig. I guarantee you all of what they've been doing here over the last week was something that they had to, get a buy-in from Ted before they ever took the job. I mean, that would be stupid if they didn't. But, you know, it's like one of those things where it's hard to grade what they've done here this week and even specific to yesterday because they didn't... The Porzingis thing is a little bit different than the Beal thing from this standpoint. If Porzingis, if there wasn't a real market for Porzingis as an unrestricted free agent

for him to make a lot more money than the $36 million player option, then maybe the Wizards had more leverage, you know, because he had to opt in if he was going to make $36 million a year and then had to sort of accept the trade, whatever trade that they came up with. And it was the best thing for him if that's true. And if that is true, then I kind of feel like they didn't get enough back. But I don't know. I think that there was probably a market for Porzingus.

I'm sure that he could, there was somebody out there willing to give him two years for 60, which would have been a less, you know, average annual, but a lot more and guaranteed money. And he had that as, you know, a bargaining chip. So for them to get anything back, he adopted in and agree to the Celtics thing and whatever. They got back what they got back. They're just, they're in that mode now and hopefully they'll pick somebody really good tonight. maybe they'll package the pick tonight and trade that and something else for picks next year. Who knows?

But they are going to stink, Tommy. This is going to be a bad, bad team. But that's what you want them to be if you're a fan of the team. You want them to be horrible next year and the year after. You want them to end up with a top two to three pick in 2024 and 2025. Actually, what you wanted was for them to be. be horrible two years ago. Well, you wanted to, exactly, after trading, you know, Beal for a lot of first-round

picks and a much... That's when... Yeah. That's when you wanted them. And, you know, I mean, this is sort of a reflection, I think, because it is still, you know, not to let these guys off the hook. I mean, it is hard to believe that they didn't get one first round pick out of any of this. and I think a part it speaks to what the rest of the league thinks of the wizards as an organization.

I think they think that the wizards are just a bunch of sacks. That's the way they treated them, you know? I just think they, I think just think that they're just a pathetic loser of an organization that they don't even take seriously. I don't know. I mean, they're not at the level. Look, the truth is, Ernie made some really good trades and Tommy made some really good trades. I mean, what he got back for Wall and then what he got back for Westbrook, you know, we can do the, you know, the arsonist fireman, you know, analogy that you've put out there forever. And it's partially true. But they have not been viewed in the way that. that the football team's been viewed. I mean, even recently... Oh, I remember a couple years ago, the Milwaukee Bucks, I mean, hammered the Wizards over a deal that fell through

where their general managers said they've never experienced the lack of professionalism in their trade talks as they did with the Wizards. I don't remember that. Yes. What was it over? I don't remember. I'm looking it up right now. Okay.

I don't specifically remember what you're talking about. But nobody was more of a mark than Dan and Vinny were for 10 years. You know, Bruce was a hard ass and just wouldn't spend money on anything, basically. And then, you know, the Carson Wentz deal was an absolute one-sided beatdown by Indianapolis. I mean, to get two-thirds for Carson Wentz and make a meet the deal, I mean, that was horrendous from Washington standpoint. So, you know, the Redskins and even now the commanders have been a mark for other NFL teams. And agents there for a 10-year period, at least before Bruce got here,

would line up to get Dan to offer 30% above retail for their clients. I mean, if a player had any sort of brand name, he could be 50 years old and Dan was going to pay him 25% more than anybody else. I mean, they were truly incompetent. I don't think players or front office people, because of the 40-plus years of mismanagement, have taken the wizard seriously as an organization for decades. Yeah, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Ernie Grunfeld and Tommy Shepard made, they drafted horrendously. Okay, that's the downfall. But there were trades along the way that were really good trades.

I mean, how the hell did he ever get rid of Gilbert Arenas in that contract? How did he ever get rid of John Wall in that contract? You know, Shepard. You know, we can go down the list of some of those deals over the years, and by the way, they were on the wrong side of some of those deals along the way, too. But the real downfall of the last 20 years anyway, you know, Ernie got here in 2003 because that was the year they took Jarvis Hayes. That was his first draft. I believe that that was 2003. The real knock, and it's legitimate, is they drafted poorly. year and year out.

You know, Jan Vesley. Jan Vesley and Chris Singleton in the first round of the 2011 draft. Both busts. Oleski Peshiroff. You know, Jarvis Hayes wasn't any good. Troy Brown Jr. in recent years. Otto Porter number three overall really wasn't, you know, the truth is, what came after him wasn't great that particular year either,

except for Janus at 15. That would have been nice. But anyway, whatever. Anything else on the trade for what they got back? Let's talk about the draft, and we'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show, presented by MyBooky.

Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. Just use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to claim your bonus. They've got some NBA draft prop bets up. They've got all of the NFL stuff up for the 2023 season. MyBooky.com, mybooky.orgie.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C.

So, Tommy, I did some research for the show today on the NBA draft. Are you excited? So did I. You did? Oh, good. I can't wait to hear your. I did. I did some research too. All right. Well, let me hear your research first.

Well, I read one story in the athletic. I read their mock draft. Uh-huh. And from what I read, the Wizards should hope that Taylor Hendricks is still available when they come back, when they come for their eighth pick. Okay. I did different kind of research. I want to get your picks on what you'd like to see the Wizards do. and we'll talk about that in a bit. But I did some research because I have said many times in the past during NBA draft week

that this draft is just overrated. Everything about it is overrated. The NFL draft is so much more impactful to a team's future. The NBA draft is a total role of the dice. Most of these players will be out of the league within 30. three to five years. Your chances of landing on a generational franchise altering player is slim and none. You know, a lot of drafts don't have one. And some drafts, you know, may have two or three, but that's it. And so I went and did some research to make sure that the way I felt was backed up by the numbers, by the data.

And the truth is that there was a surprising result for me where I was wrong. And I'm going to talk about that in a moment. But let me give you and kind of lay out the 2018 and the 2019 drafts. I went back four and five years because that's kind of a true measure of what that draft really was. It's too early to judge 2022 or 2021 or even 2020 for that matter. Although Anthony Edwards does look like he could be a true, you know, superstar at some point. So I went back and I looked at the 2018 and the 2019 drafts. And here's what I found.

So 60 players, two rounds, 30 teams, 60 players each draft, 120 players selected. Let me start with 2018. The 2018 draft produced one legitimate, no-debat superstar. and that was Luca Donchich at number three overall. And some would even say, yeah, you know, Luca is a superstar, but will he ever win a championship as the number one player on your team? That's kind of debatable, but there's no doubt that he is capable of being that kind of a player, whether he achieves it or not, he's a true superstar.

And that was the only player in that draft. that kind of reaches that level. There were four players in that draft that I would call star players and still rising, one in particular that I think may reach the Luca stage, but isn't there yet. And those players are Trey Young, Shea Gilgis Alexander, who I think of the four players that I'm going to mention, is the one that really has a chance to become a true superstar. He's a star right now on his way in getting better each year. Jalen Brunson was actually a second round pick,

and Jaron Jackson Jr., who was the fourth overall pick in the draft, is a great defensive player. He's not a franchise carrier to a title, but he's one of the two or three best defensive players in the NBA. So out of the 60 players selected in 2018, one elite superstar in Luca, and then four star players. And then after that, you basically got 34 players, Tommy, that range from kind of a low-end starter to a role player off the bench

or an end-of-the-bench player. You know, like you've got players like DeAndre Aiton and Gary Trent Jr. And Michael Porter, Jr., who we just saw in the finals. They're starters, but they're not. stars at, you know, and some might say, well, Michael Porter Jr. could be, but he's not going to be LeBron. He's not going to be Luca, you know? 34 players fit the low-end starter, off-the-bench role player, or end of the bench, never playing. And then out of the 60, 21 or out of the league completely, five years later. In 2019, one tree,

elite player. And that player has major issues right now. And that's John Morant. John Morant is the real deal as a basketball player. But my God, I mean, who knows if he'll ever realize it. One total mystery in that draft, and that Zion, who was a can't miss as number one overall in the 2019 draft. And now New Orleans may be looking to trade him, you know, four years later. And then there's one player. that is in that list of, you know, star players still rising. Darius Garland is a really good player. And that's it.

After that, there are 35 players that fall into that category of starters, but not stars. You know, Tyler Hero, PJ Washington, RJ Barrett, a lot of role players, and then a lot of the players that just ride the pine at the end of the bench. 22 of the 60 are no longer in the league. So the surprise for me was that basically 43 players, four and five years after those drafts, are no longer in the league. I thought the number was much higher than that. I thought it would be a half to two-thirds or not even in the league anymore.

They're either not playing or they're playing internationally. But it's basically just over a third of the players are out of the league. But, you know, 69 of the 120, well over half, aren't real. They're contributors, but a lot of them are just at the end of the bench or are role players. And then you only have really eight players, you know, the two stars in Luca and John Morant. And then, you know, another, you know, another five to six who are star players, some of them rising still. that's eight out of 120. It's basically 6.6% of the players really have an impact.

It's a draft that we're going to see the fanciest of suits and pocket squares tonight, and there's going to be a lot of celebration. But four to five years from now, out of the 120 players that are selected tonight, and I actually think there are fewer that are going to get picked because I think a couple teams got docked picks. Four and five years from now, you know, you're going to be lucky to have, you know, two stars, superstars out of the draft, or one actually. And, you know, maybe six to seven to eight players that are major contributors and are, you know, all-star kind of players. It just, and you don't know who they're going to be.

I mean, usually they end up being in the top three. You know, like the players that I mentioned are in the top five or six. You know, Jaron Jackson and Trey Young and Luca were all top five picks. Gilgis Alexander was 11. And in 2019, John Morant was two, you know, and Darius Garland was five. But, you know, you can end up with Janice at 15 or Kauai Leonard at 15 or Jimmy Butler at 30. It's really evaluation, yes, and hopefully these guys are better. at evaluating in Washington now than Ernie and Tommy were, but there's some luck involved, too.

And we'll see. That's my research. Okay. That's looking back. What do you have looking forward? I don't know anything, honestly, about the G-League players or Wembeñana. I know what all of you know. I've watched highlights, all right? And Wembeignana looks. you know, Wembe Nama looks, you know, spectacular. He also looks like Chet Holmgren looked last year, like he needs, you know, to maybe play in Italy for a few years and eat a lot of pasta and a lot of food.

He's rail thin. But I will take the word of everybody that does this for a living and that he's the best prospect since LeBron. I really am impressed watching Scoot Henderson from the G League, but those are highlights. Brandon Miller, who's a top three pick, you know, apparently, I watched a lot of. And, you know, they played Maryland and knocked out Maryland. And then he was terrible in that game that they lost to San Diego State in the tournament in.

But, you know, I don't see Kevin Durant when I see Brandon Miller, but I see a guy that can definitely get a lot of shots and can really shoot it. But, you know, I can only comment on the college players with any kind of certainty. So let me tell you who I wouldn't mind the Wizards draft. If they draft Kaysen Wallace out of Kentucky, I think he's the next best point guard. I like him more than Anthony Black. To me, he reminds me of Marcus Smart, of Davion Mitchell, who I fell in love with when they won the national championship and went on that run at Baylor a few years ago. And he's played well at Sacramento, and he was the number 11 pick two years ago.

That's who this guy reminds me of. He will be a defensive, high- IQ competitive badass. as an NBA player. He's got to get better offensively, but he's got a good stroke. And I can see him developing and becoming a decent offensive player. But I think the Celtics are going to miss Marcus Smart a lot. He was the heart and soul and the toughness on these Celtic teams in recent years. And I think Kaysen Wallace, if he were there at 8,

I would prefer him over Anthony Black, the other point guard from Arkansas. I really like Jalen Hood Chafino from Indiana. He's a point guard, but he's a true scoring point guard. He had maybe one of the best games of any individual all season long when Indiana went into Mackey at Purdue, when Purdue was number one in the country, and he put 35 on Purdue. And Indiana won that game, I think it was 79 to 71. And he had a couple of those games that were incredible.

He played terrible. at Maryland when Maryland beat Indiana this year. He was one for 14 from the floor in that game. But he is already physically, even though he only played one year in college, he's physically the part at 6-6 and 220. And he just looks like, to me, a guy that's going to be a big-time scoring, you know, point guard and can play off the ball at the NBA level. I'm a huge Jaime Hockes fan from UCLA.

He seemed like he was there forever. ever, but just such a smart, high IQ player. He's not overly athletic. You know, he's going to be there. I mean, I'm not suggesting the Wizards take him at eight. Hood Schaffino, I wouldn't care if they took him at eight. I'd feel great if Kaysen Wallace was the pick at eight. But I'm just giving you players in this draft that I like. I love Hawkes a lot. Yeah, I mean, you know, there are a couple of other players that are going to go in the second round or late first. Like I really like Jalen Pickett at Penn State. I'm a Marcus Sasser fan for many years from Houston. I do like Taylor Hendrix, the guy that you mentioned from Central Florida. Cam Whitmore, kind of. I've been talked into

thinking that Derek lively, the center out of Duke, has a big time, you know, has a big time ceiling. Yeah, he's got to. He intrigued me from what I read about him. He's got, you know, one of those huge ceilings. And I think really what the wizard should do is they should take the player that has, in their mind's eye, the best chance of becoming a superstar player. You know, they don't have to draft like they have the last couple of years. You know, like last year, the pick of Johnny Davis was more of like filling a role. Like they wanted more defense.

You're not drafting for need now. There's no need. You're going to win 15 to 20 games for the next couple of years. You're drafting for the future. You're drafting the guy that you think four, five, six years from now, you know, if he's still with you, hopefully. But certainly three years from now, it's obvious that you've got a star player, you know, that you're going to want to pay and build around. That's what you're looking for here. And a guy like Lively would fit that description.

I think, you know, personally, you know, I mean, look, Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, Wemagnana, their top three. The Thompson brothers, honestly, I've watched highlights. Okay, really impressive. But I haven't seen them in any games that matter. Well, let me ask you about that. Because the athletic, which I think does a good job with a lot of these things, have the wizards pitching one of the Thompson twins? Osser, Thompson? Yeah, Osser is the...

their ace pick in the draft. And they point out what are the problems here is nobody really knows they play in that overtime elite league. It's hard to evaluate what they've done. Yeah. I agree. I agree. That's a big problem.

This is not the time to experiment. Yeah, but you're drafting potential now. You're drafting, you know, somebody who you and... How can you tell the potential of that guy? Well, you can certainly tell athletically. You don't know the competition he's facing. Well, you do know the competition that they're facing. They're facing NBA level competition.

It's just at what level of the NBA are they facing. Look, NACI made a really good point to me this morning on radio. Like, there's no doubt that Brandon Miller is going to be either the second or the third pick in the draft. You know, I would think he's going to be. The one team, and I mentioned this, that they faced in the tournament, that played more like an NBA team does defensively. I mean, San Diego State got to the NCAA finals this year as a defensive team, and they were tough, older, physically mature.

You know, they had an older team. And Brandon Miller went three of 19 against San Diego State and when they got knocked out in the Sweet 16 by them. And so that was kind of, you know, what he's going to. to see at the NBA level, but you're not even projecting what they're going to be next year or the year after. You're projecting what they're going to be when they physically mature. You know, when Brandon Miller's a 25, 26-year-old, what do they think he's going to be, or a 24-year-old anyway? You know, there are going to be a lot of 18- and 19-year-olds selected.

Let me ask you about this. This is overtime, Lee, because I don't know much about it, only that it exists. if you're evaluating talent, don't you have to evaluate them as they're tested in pressure situations? And there's no pressure in an overtime elite league. That's right. It's like a glorified AAU, isn't it? Yeah. But, you know, I've told you this just about the NBA in general.

Like, you don't know anything about these players until the postseason. because the nature of postseason games is completely different than the regular season games. Like every possession matters. Teams are defending. All of the best players are playing. There's a shortened bench. Like there's all this stuff that happens where, oh, this guy's much better than I thought. Well, yeah, because he played 82 games that basically were like summer league games.

They're hard to evaluate. But to bring up. that point, Brandon Miller, I mean, you can evaluate players like that in the draft who have played in the NCAA tournament. From a pressure standpoint, yes, Tommy, but from a talent standpoint in terms of the talent they're facing, no. But you already sold on their talent. You already know what their talent level is.

You're going to see what their heart is. You're 100% right. You are learning something about them. more so than you are about G-League or overtime elite players because they are playing in pressure-packed, you know, arenas and games. And, you know, they may be thinking about the NBA in their future, but let's not try to act like, you know,

Brandon Miller didn't feel the pressure when he went into South Carolina off of that murder and everything that was going on in Tuscaloosa. and he hung 41 on South Carolina with the whole crowd against him. Like nobody faces that in the overtime elite league or the G league. Now, nobody faces what Brandon Miller faced down the stretch, period, because of the unique circumstances that he was involved in. But no, like Derek Lively played Cameron Indoor.

You know, he put like, Hood Schafino went into Mackey, you know, went into Comcast Center. You know, these guys, no doubt, I think, I think that you learn more about kind of their character and their ability to function, you know, under, you know, the spotlight much more than you do. But my point is, is that college basketball is literally like, you know, CYO eighth grade compared to the NBA. And compared even some of these, you know, the G League players and overtime elite players, certainly the G League players. That's for sure. I'd like to see him if he's available. Pick that big kid from Duke.

Yeah, lively is, you know, lively 7-1 is 2.30. And he's like a legit, you know, rim protector for sure. Yeah. But he's got a lot of development to go. And, yeah. Like I said with all of my research, this thing is a roll of the dice and evaluating it as just a basketball fan. I mean, come on.

I mean, we don't know. Just like in the NFL draft, you don't know. But the NFL draft produces, you know, starters like, you know, half a team this year was drafted in the last five years. You know, so there's certainly, you know, 40% of a team is probably made up of draft choices over the last three to five years. That's not what you get out of the NBA draft. But there will be a lot of excited people tonight, that's for sure. Well, following the draft,

you'll be able to have a chance to have all the new monumental network talent on the radio to talk about it, right? Stop it, stop it. We're not going to get anybody in trouble. All right, we have other things to get to. there's not a lot of football news today. You know what we should talk about? What?

Since this is your area of expertise, and you probably talked about it on the radio show, but not with me on the podcast, the NFL gambling issue and players. Okay. We'll do that. We'll do that, and we'll talk about other things

that we haven't figured out yet, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, Tell us about Shelley's. Well, Kevin, as you know, it's getting closer to my trip abroad over in Spain for the month of August. And one of the things I'm looking forward to is to partake in some Cuban cigars while I'm over there because there's no ban on Cuban goods in Spain. They do business with Cuba.

So I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some human cigars, but I have to bring some with me as insurance just in case. You know, I can't find any that are close by or when I first get there. And one of the places I would do that is Shelly's back room. They have the best cigar selection in the city. A cigar aficionado publishes a list of the top 25 cigars every year, and Shelly's has most, if not all those cigars, on their list

year after year. Cigars from some great manufacturers as Rocky Patel, Romeo and Julietta, Tahoulet, Undercrown, Ashton. What's your favorite cigar? I like Romeo and Juliet. I like a Romeo and Juliet. Why do you like it?

Probably a Churchill size. Why do you like it? You know I don't know that much about cigars. Well, you see, that's the thing. I don't either. This is one of my many disappointments to listeners. And when they want to come up and talk to me about cigars, and I say, look, Mr.

I just light them up and smoke them. Okay. Well, there's nothing wrong with that either. I mean, I drink a lot of wine. I like wine. I don't really know that much about wine. And yet sometimes I'm with people that know a lot about wine. It's, to be honest with you sometimes a bit annoying all of the wine discussion.

But sometimes I'm interested by it and I wish that I knew more. Maybe one of these days, if I can get off shows like Silo or soon to be louder milk, because I'm going to watch that at some point too, I can, I can learn more about wine. But the cigar thing, I don't know anything about cigars. Because I don't smoke cigars. I went through that stage 20 years ago where I would smoke cigars, especially if it was out on the golf course or with a bunch of friends.

But I just don't, I don't know. I don't like, I mean, it doesn't do anything for me. That's one of the great things about shelley's is they'll help you pick a cigar that you really are looking for. that if you describe to them what you would like in a cigar, they'll find it for you among their collections. But you can't describe it. Well, you can say I want something mild. Okay.

You know, I haven't smoked that many cigars, or I want something, you know, robust or make up some other adjective or something like that. I just smoke them. I just smoke them. Just give me something to smoke. All right. Shelly's is the best. Kelly's backroom, 1331 F Street Northwest in the district.

Right. So the NFL, you wanted to talk about the NFL sort of reinforcing its gambling policy. And you mentioned something to me during the break that I did not know about. And that is a report that a player, an individual player, lost eight months. million dollars gambling on sports. We don't know who that player is, right? I don't think we know who that

player is. We don't know who that player is. This was I don't know who reported this, but I found it on pro football talk on Florio's site that one NFL player back in 2022 lost 8 million bucks

gambling. That's unbelievable. Tommy, that's hurt. I don't care how much money that player makes, that is a big time hurt. I would hope that he negotiated, well, you know, if he was putting it on basically, if he was betting, you know, legally there's no negotiation. If he was betting illegally, I hope he negotiated a buyout number. I hope eight million wasn't what he paid him if he was down that much. Because typically, let me bring that up to you for a second. Okay. Let's assume that, you know, like, he didn't just start betting when

sports betting became legal. No, doubtful. He's probably been at it for a while. That's a, that's a disturbing. You don't want football players to bookies. That's not what you want. No, but the thing is is you can get into a bookie betting on any sport. It's not just football. This is the thing about gambling that we've discussed here before. The NFL has all of its rules, you know, with legalized sports betting. And one of the things that they are doing right now is they are redoubling what they've called, their efforts to reinforce the league's gambling policy to players in the wake of all of these recent violations

where we've gotten suspensions, you know, including, you know, Shaka Tony, who is out for the whole year next year for the commanders. But the six key rules in the NFL gambling policy are don't bet on the NFL, don't gamble at your team facility while traveling for a road game or staying at a team hotel. I don't get that one at all. Somebody needs to explain that one to me. Like what's the difference if they gamble in their car at CVS on their way in? versus doing it in the parking lot at the team facility.

But whatever. Don't have someone bet for you is number three. Don't share team inside information. Don't enter a sports book during the NFL playing season and don't play daily fantasy football. Those are the six key rules that the NFL is reemphasizing with its players. Look, the truth is that the risk is, that a guy gets into debt and uses his position as an influencer on the outcome of a game to get out of debt.

That's a big risk. And that risk exists whether you bet on the NFL or you're betting on baseball legally or illegally. And that's why I'm kind of in favor of just, you know, look, it's not practical. So I think it would be best if professional athletes that get paid lots of money if the league's banned sports betting altogether. But that's not practical anymore with all of the access that's out there. But certainly, you know, you can't have these players betting on games that they're in or even games that they've got inside information on, you know,

as well. But I don't know, $8 million. I mean, that's, somebody had a major problem. And you're right. They didn't just lose $8 million as a new gambler more likely than not. They built up to that. I'm guessing they did. I don't know. When you've got as much money as some of these athletes, maybe they, maybe their first wager was, you know, $10,000, $10,000. And then, you know, within three weeks, they were up to a quarter of a million on each game.

Who knows? I'd like to know what the largest wagers are with legalized sports books. I'll tell you this, if you're going to bet a lot of money, make sure you're getting the right kind of price on the loss. Because if you're paying minus 125 minus 130 on a loss, which some legal sports books charge, my bookie does not. My bookie has real, legitimate, fair, uh, vigs and pricing.

But think about it, you know, just think about a thousand dollar bet, okay? If you lose in some places, it cost you 1,300 versus say 1,100, which is what it should be, no more than. Unless, of course, you bought, you know, half points and full points and... Well, in this, in this ESPN story, uh, that I've been, I've read, uh, Apparently, the sports books are working with the league and will alert the NFL if and when a player places a bet under his own name. Also, geolocation technology is a big part of these efforts, as bets can be traced to a player's home, for instance. Yeah, well, they're allowed to bet on other sports from home.

Yes. Yeah. Tommy I know we've talked about this before but just for those that haven't heard it remember when this first became news you and I were doing the show together the day that it was announced

that legalized sports betting was going to become a state-by-state issue I don't know what year that was now 2014-2015 whatever it was and the leagues were going to ask for integrity fees from the states and from the state legal sports books. And I told you they'll never get that.

The leagues don't monitor, you know, suspicious activity. The books do. The sports books, you know, in Vegas, which were the legal sports books forever, they were the monitors of suspicious activity. They were the ones that told teams and leagues in conferences, hey, you got a problem here. We cut the betting off, but we saw all of this unusual activity coming in on North Texas, you know, five minutes before kickoff.

There's a problem. You know, the NFL and the NBA and the NHL and Major League Baseball, they can't monitor this. They don't deserve an integrity fee. They're not the ones keeping the integrity of the games. The sports books are. And, of course, they finally figured it out. first of all, the sports books were never going to give them a cut because they couldn't afford to give them a cut.

You know, the margins aren't, you know, well, the legalized sports books have decent margins because they're charging a lot more. But anyway, long story short, is the leagues are benefiting from the increased interest, you know, in their games because betting is legal. You know, gambling's always been a big driver of the popularity of sports, the NFL and college football in particular, because football is the number one, you know, sport that's bet on. But, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, in so many ways, Tommy, I think sports, I think as a sports fan, you should feel better about the integrity of the game with as many sports. books now that are out there legally that take bets. I guess, I don't know, I may be wrong about that. You're always going to...

I think that's not unreasonable. I mean, because it's in everyone's best interest not to have a scandal. Of course. In a scandalous business. Right. Yeah, no. I mean, the integrity of the games, I mean, if you don't have that,

then you have professional wrestling, and that's not why the NFL is as popular as it is. You know, I'm not knocking professional wrestling. I'm not knocking, but that's entertainment. That's pure entertainment. That's not

professional wrestling. That's not, that's not a competition. And to remain a competition and to keep the integrity of that competition, they do have to, you know, hammer these guys hard. And they've got to make sure and do their best to make sure that these people,

these players and coaches, by the way, too, don't get compromised by debt. Coaches can't bet on any sport NFL coaches whatsoever, none. Yeah. Didn't we have a coach that bet? You mentioned professional wrestling. Yeah.

You mentioned professional wrestling there. You never got interested in professional wrestling, did you? Not really. There was a time when I was much younger where I would definitely watch, you know, on Saturday morning's Channel 20, you know, Sergeant Slaughter and some of those guys. from the 80s. I remember watching some of that then and being interested for a brief period of time in my

life, but no. Never been a big wrestling fan at all. And I know you... I used to be. I used to be big time. And then when my kids were young, it got revived all over again. You know, the Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, Randy Savage,

error. I got interested in it again. But I go, I mean, do you know who sold out Madison Square Garden more than anyone in the history of the garden. I'm sure. Bruno San Martino. Oh, really?

Like, 180 straight sellouts. Wow. That's just amazing. It's pretty tough. And I saw Bruno San Martino wrestle in the old Madison Square Garden before this one was built. I saw him wrestle cowboy Bill White. Wow. I loved professional.

I know you do. It was so much fun. Yeah. Just, you know, my three boys never, I don't think they got into it. I think one of my three boys is definitely, definitely follows, you know, MMA. But professional wrestling, though. Well, I think there's been talk about creating betting on professional wrestling. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you can bet on the Academy Awards, too. You can bet on outcomes that have already been decided. decided, but typically, you are very limited in what you can bet. It's not like you can gain, you know, access to the information and retire on one bet. There are limits on those bets, you know, when you bet, you know, prop bets like that. It's just for these casinos, they're just ways to keep people interested in keeping them betting. And the truth is they make money on those things too, because most people don't have information and lose. So, yeah, I'm just sitting here.

I'm just watching to see if there's news because I know. Oh, I did want to talk about one other thing. Did you see the memo that the NFL and the NFLPA put out about starting, they awarded basically grants to research essentially, you know, weed and how it could be used in pain management for its players. And so, you know, they've taken that step forward to, you know, eventually get to the point, which I think they eventually will, where weeds are going to be a part of pain management for players and they're going to be able to, you know, smoke it and gummy it in any other way

they can consume it. But that's, you know, that's a big step for the league. Yes. It's a welcome step. You know, July 1st, I think, July 1st is the date where recreational marijuana becomes legal in the state of Maryland. Is it? Yeah. I didn't. I mean, I know it's... Just a couple of days away.

I know it's legal in D.C. I do know that. I... By the way, I'm just... Here's another trade. Here it is. I'm glad we waited till the end. Woge. Another trade involving the Wizards. Paul. The Wizards are finalizing a deal to send Chris Paul to the Golden State Warriors for a package

that includes Jordan Poole and future draft assets. Wow. That's interesting. So again, just like with the Phoenix deal, with Beale, I want to know what these draft assets are in more detail. But look, Jordan Poole is, I thought he was a bit of a baby during the postseason for Golden State. Well, he was. You know, and obviously you had the issue with Draymond early in this season. I'm just pulling up his contract to see how many more years he has on his deal. Well, let me ask you while you're doing that. Yeah.

Take deal out of the equation. where would Jordan Poole fall in among the last year's Wizards roster? Take Beale out of the equation? Yeah. Do you think he's better than Beale? By the way, he signed that four-year $128 million deal before last year. So he's got four years left on his deal. So this is a player.

By the way, it's really important. And my guest yesterday pointed it out. There's a minimum amount you have to spend. It's 90% of the salary cap. So Jordan Poole is going to come in at $28 million, which I think was exactly Chris Paul's salary for next year. But the Wizards are going to be committed to Jordan Poole's salary through the 2026, 2027 season.

So this is the first player that they are saying, we actually think that whenever we get all these young players in, he can be, you know, a star player for us. Okay. Where would he? He was, he acted like a bitch during the postseason for them. Yes, he did. Where would he have ranked on the team this year? He would have been there.

Would he have been the second best player? Well, he would have probably been their third leading score behind Beale and Porzingis, I think. Okay. I don't know. Maybe he would have led them. team in scoring. I don't know. He would have been right there with, you know, with Beal and Porzingis and Coosma. He can really score. All right. Beal was their leading score this year, right? He had to have been. Because Porzingis averaged 23. What did Beal average? I'm looking

that up. Porzingis may have been. Beal average 23.2 and Porzingis average 23.2. And Kyle Coosma averaged 21.2 points per game. So Jordan Poole would have been in... How could they be so bad? How could they have been so bad? Because they couldn't stop anybody. There were games where they could really score. I mean, those three players averaged basically 68 points a game. I know. I know.

Let me just look up what Jordan Poole, what he average this year. I'm going to guess he averaged like 17 or 18 a game somewhere around there. 10 a game. that can't be right. He only averaged 10... Oh, this is the postseason. My fault. 20.4 points per game, even more than I thought.

But did not have a great postseason with the exception of that one game. He had that really good game against Sacramento. I'm forgetting what game it is. I'm pulling up the log right now. Yeah, he had 22 against Sacramento in that great game, game four that they won after they fell behind two nothing and they won that game at home.

And he played really well in one or two of the Lakers games. But he was missing in action in some of those games. He really was. But 24 years old can really score for sure. But this is, you know, this is a guy that's going to be around for a few years. based on his contract, I guess they could potentially package him and trade him to somewhere else

before the deadline next year and get a lot back for him that way. But look, they got back a lot for Chris Paul. This actually seems like a deal in which there was a moment there where people were talking about just sort of some kind of contract buyout. and I'm like, no, you don't need to be charitable.

You don't owe Chris Paul any favors. You are now, we're not in the culture of caring anymore. We're in the culture of trying to win. So let's see what the future draft assets are that come with pool. Let me see if Wojj has anything else on this deal. All right, here it is. Warriors are sending a, oh, God, a 2030 protected. first round pick and a

2027 second rounder. So Steph and and Clay and probably Dremont because I think Dremont's coming back. They'd be crazy not to try to bring him back. They are, they didn't want Jordan Poole on this team anymore.

They did not want Jordan pull on the team anymore. And so Poole they bring back for that deal. So very interesting. They got something back. That's an intriguing trade, absolutely. Yeah.

It's a big contract that they're taking on. A big contract. Now, that becomes, in many ways, because he's under contract and doesn't have a no-trade clause, and he's not making $40 million a year. He's projected to make closer to $30 million a year. He's going to make $28 million in the year. upcoming season.

You know, it's possible that he's draft capital, you know, he's trade bait as well. But they got something back for Chris Paul. Good for them. And look, 2030, if we even like basketball seven years from now, we'll be all excited about that protected first round pick from Golden State. All right, so that wraps up the, man, the Warriors, the Wizards have been a headline this week. Haven't they been in the NBA? Yes, they have. This is the most NBA.

This is the biggest headline week for the Wizards in 44 years. I don't know about that. I think Gilbert bringing guns in the locker room with a bigger headline. All right. You and I will be together again early next week. We're going to do Monday and Wednesday together next week. I'll be back tomorrow to recap the draft, and John Kynne will be on the show. so we will do a lot of football tomorrow. This was light on football today. And basically zero on the commanders, for the most part.

And we survived. How did we do that? How did we do that? I keep saying commanders. I'm saying commanders more and more. Can I mention, I'm going to close the podcast today with this. I believe that Josh Harris and his group, when they buy the team, will absolutely take seriously the name issue.

I'll just leave it at that. Back tomorrow, Tommy, have a good weekend. By the way, you know who else is going to Spain? Me at the end of next week. I'll tell you about it on Monday. Back tomorrow. Okay. Hi, boss.

With the sixth pick in the 2011 NBA draft, the Washington Wizard select Jan Vesely from Ostrava Czech Republic. He last played for partisan Belgrade.