The Kevin Sheehan Show - Gaining Ground On Eagles?

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Kevin and Thom today with plenty to choose from. They talked stadium, draft, how much ground Washington has gained on Philly this off-season, and Shadeur Sanders. Some Caps, Nats, NBA, and what kind of sandwich the boys would have if they had a signature menu item. Goldbelly.com, code sheehan, for free shipping and 20% off your first order of food from around the US.  Go To WindowNation.com. Buy 4 windows, get 4 free!Betting on sports? Go to mybookie.ag. Use code KEVINDC for a bonus!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation 86690 Nation or Window Nation.

Orwindonation.com. We've got a lot to talk about today, but we have to start with the big news over the weekend. Tommy and his wife Liz came by the house. and socialized with the shans. They've been avoiding it for years, but they couldn't avoid it this time because I knew he was coming into my hood, and I said, well, if you're going to be here,

we're here, so at least stop by. He couldn't say no, and he did. And I don't know. You know what? My wife and I had a lovely time spending an hour or so with you guys having a drink or two before you went off to your concert. So did we.

You know, it was a little bit troublesome because, you know, it took me about a half hour to ditch the TMZ cameras that were following us. Yeah. That were there to record events. Yeah. You know? But I finally ditched them. So we were able to do this on the fly without a lot of publicity. And we had a great time.

Yeah. We had a wonderful time. And then you left to go to a King's Soul concert. We left to go have dinner. dinner plans on Saturday night. But you were at the house. We had a couple of cocktails. It was great to see your wife because it's been years since I've seen Liz.

Now, you know, you've seen Kara. Well, you've seen Kara occasionally over the years. Well, the one memorable time was I saw Kara was at the Carly Simon autographs. Right, when you were the only male in line. Yes. Yes. But it was great to talk to your wife about you. and we had a good time doing that.

Was the concert fun? Oh, the show was great. King Saul, always the first-class show. A lot of good dancing, a lot of good songs. Nice. Fabulous time. Did they ask you to come up and sing a little bit with them or not? Actually, they did, but I didn't do it because I was drawing a blank on the lyrics that they wanted me to sing.

Really? They really did ask you. you to go up and sing? Yes, they did. The song I did, you know, King Saul did a benefit show for us for the D.C. Graves a few years

ago. And I got up and sang, Knock on Wood, the whole song. Oh, right. With them. Yeah. And then, so they asked me, like, two-thirds of the way through, Tom Clifford, the singer, says, Leverill, come on up here,

finish this song. And I froze on the lyrics, the final, lyrics. I mean, I, you know, I had to see it first to remember it. So I said, no, no, no, no, no. So I didn't do it. You just said no, but you didn't say no because I don't remember the lyrics. No. Yeah, because that would have been like, really? You don't know the lyrics to our songs? I just gave them a signal. Well, wait a minute. Are they a cover band, or do they have their own stuff? Oh, they have a mixture. Okay. I'd say half and half. They have a lot of good original stuff that they do, and then they do cover stuff as well.

All right. Well, you know, in about five years down on the Anacosteal waterfront, there's going to be an area with, you know, it's going to be a plaza level. They're going to have some concerts out there. They're going to have festivals and there will be tons of retail restaurants, the whole thing. I could see King's Soul maybe before that first, you know, game in the fall of 2025, playing in some sort of outdoor, you know, all-day lead-up on a Sunday.

day before Sunday night football, Washington and Dallas, from whatever that stadium will be called. What will it be called? Who knows by the time we get there? That's an interesting question, yeah. It's the last, it's a memorial to RFK gone once the stadium's gone. I don't know. That's a good question.

But Kevin, they'll be able to play at the bar we're going to open down there, Kevin and Tom. Let me just tell you one thing I will never do. I will never open a bar or a restaurant. That's for other people. That is tough business. I think we would do well. I think we would do well. But put it this way.

I mean, my very good friend, Tony Kornheiser, along with Gary Williams and Mori Povich, and a lot of different people, you know, tried to get into the restaurant business for a little while. And it didn't work for them. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work for us. You know, locations everything. And the menu would be important. We'd keep it simple, I think. I think it would be, you know, burgers, a chicken sandwich, some definitely some wings. The wings would have to be like kind of first rate.

The burgers really good. And then, you know, a couple of salads and boom, call it a day. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. And there'd be a sports book there on the side. Of course there would be. A little sports room that place your bet.

Yeah, well, that would actually be. would perhaps made the restaurant money. Would we have a sandwich named after you or not? The Laverro? We'd have a sandwich named after me, sandwich named after you. The Lovey? The sandwich named after the, that's the great one. You know, some of our cohorts from 980 years past.

Yeah. Yeah, the Zabe, the Scotland. Yeah. So what would your sandwich be? ham and cheese what would my sandwich be pulled pork pulled pork be a good one

pull pork got I like that one coleslaw you're not a coleslaw guy I'm guessing no I'm not a coleslaw guy right but you got to have coleslaw on a pulled pork sandwich

I understand it's an attraction to other people you know but it's not on the livero menu I think I'd go with like a I think my sandwich would be like a prime rib sandwich we'd go

with, you know, really good prime, thin, prime ribs sliced sandwich with some au jus. And, of course, that comes with a side, a big mountain of fries. But the fries have to be kind of extra crispy. We're not going to, our fries are not going to be, you know, soggy fries, just out of the oven fries. They're going to be, they're going to be crispy. They're going to be salted up, perfect. that always bothers me when you get fries at a restaurant and they're just they're soggy or they're really soft fries have to be crispy but I'll go with like a prime rib kind of a French dip

sandwich with just a mountain of fries yeah absolutely yeah look here's what if we've got anybody listening okay the idea would be we would open up our restaurant with somebody else's money Yeah, well, we're not going to do it with ours. No. No. We're not going to do with ours. No. Because we couldn't open up a hot dog cart outside the stadium with that.

But somebody listening, they want to put up the money for our restaurant, just slap our name on it. We go down and hang out, you know, shoot the breeze with people, you know, pick the menu here and there and stuff. We're up for that. Yeah, but it's all about OPM. It's not our money. Yeah. But location's going to be key. and then we're going to have to be down there on game days.

I think that's going to be the most important thing. You know, we'll kind of be like Sam Malone and the crew from Cheers. We won't actually attend the games. We'll just have the TVs going and we'll maybe we'll bartend. I bartended for a while. I waited tables more than I bartended in college, but I bartended a little bit. My youngest son bartended a ton at Penn State.

We'll just hang out around the bar, maybe behind the bar. Yeah. I'm really starting to like the fact that they're going down to the RFK site. Because now we can shift to more serious topics. I said this to you before we started to record. This was a big story yesterday. But it wasn't a surprise story.

There's really, I mean, Mark Seagraves reported this a week and a half ago. knew this was coming. We knew the announcement of a business deal between the team and the city was coming. What's next is a big deal whether or not the city council passes it. And I would say, by the way, I would say it will. And I want your opinion here in a moment. But I found it interesting yesterday. Like I'll tell you, right before we started to record the podcast, somebody sent me this thing that Scott did last night on SportsCenter. And he did this like three minute thing. I forget what he calls the segment that ends his show. The one thing.

I think it's called the big thing. Oh, the big thing, I think, the one big thing. And he did it on RFK. And, you know, I understand that. And for his show, it's perfect. And he's in D.C. and the whole thing. This was not, people treated it like it was, oh, my God. It was the biggest news we've had in years.

I mean, were people just not paying attention to this? story? This was going to happen. We were going to get to an announcement between Mayor Bowser and Josh Harris at some point. They've been working on the framework for a deal long before they even got the land. And then they just had to wait for these budget issues with Congress on the 25 budget. And now the challenges come. But what I said to you is in addition to it not feeling like a massive news story in terms of breaking news, because I didn't feel that way at all. It's like for me, it's so far down the road five years from now. And for the first time in a long time, the football team has taken center stage.

The actual product on the field right now is the big story. So the draft, I personally feel, was more important to many of my listeners. what they're doing, you know, leading up to the season. You know, I think when the schedule comes out in two weeks, I'll have my mock in about a week and a half, my mock schedule, that is. I think people are going to get excited. I mean, we have five more years in Landover with the best prospect, the best prospects for the team in three decades.

I mean, we've got big years coming up long before we move into the new digs, before the team moves into the new digs, they're going to play many playoff games in Landover before they move into the new stadium at RFK. And after the city council passes this, Tommy, doesn't, and I mean, I kind of remember this from the baseball stadium. Once the city council passed it, and it was seven to six, I looked this up the other day. It was a close call on Nats Park. But once it passed, you got the groundbreaking, you got occasional updates here and there. But a lot of time kind of went by before you heard anything about it again. And that'll be the same with this.

You know, most people aren't driving by the RFK area every day to go to work. A lot of people are. I'm not saying a lot of people don't, but this is a massive area we live in. The majority of people won't even see it until it opens in 2030. So I don't know. I feel I'm happy for the city more than anything else. I'm also happy for my kids, and then if they have kids, because they'll have a much better place more likely than not to watch the football team.

And by the way, go to concerts and other things. But I didn't feel. like this was like this massive, you know, sort of landmark day in D.C. history like everybody else did. Well, you see, there is, there is a worthy, a newsworthiness to people speaking about, speaking about it publicly for the first time, really. You know, to have them both on stage, the mayor and Josh Harris. And, you know, they brought out the big guns. He had Rigo, there, right? He had, who else was there? Thaisman? I don't know who else was there. Doug Williams, Daryl Green, Rigo, Gibbs, Peters, Quinn.

Yeah. So you brought out the, it had a feel of a big moment, okay? And also the beginning. It was a beginning, you know, I think finally, even though this has been going on behind the scenes, publicly, this was the start of the process, or what I call it. the dance in a column I wrote last week that goes on in cities all over the country when it comes to stadiums. So, I mean, I, you know, it's funny because I was going to write about the draft Monday for Tuesday, the whole, you know, my whole opinion about the whole commander's draft, but this story just seemed bigger.

It just seemed bigger. It just generally on social media, you know. It just seemed like a bigger story, so I switched gears and wrote about the stadium, which I had already written about the week before when the Mark Seagrave story came out. Right. Yeah. I mean, I wrote a different angle than I had the week before. But I understand why it had the appearance of, it had the feel of a big story,

even though people knew it was coming. When you're speaking it publicly, you're speaking it into existence, and now the process begins. You know, and I mean, you know, it's interesting because I think because of the momentum that, I mean, what we're talking about right now, you were kind of taken aback by maybe how big the story, people seem to react to this story, even though we all knew it was coming. I think that speaks to the momentum. of this project right now.

And coupled with, which I wrote about in today's Washington Times, the momentum of the excitement about the team on the field. And I think that's going to help, tremendously help the city officials and the team sell this project. Because I'm not sure for the council members, you know, basically want to feel like, I compared it to, like, being warmer, shutting down, you know, Delta House, you know? No, I mean, it's just, I don't think anybody wants to be on the wrong side of this. And I did point out before last week, you know, not everybody in the city is an NFL fan, most aren't. But publicly, there seems to be a momentum for this thing that's going to be difficult to say no to.

Now, you could have the residents, you know, this is, you know, this is, you know, There's a group that's trying to get this on a ballot, and if it's turned away at a ballot, which it very well could be, you know, the city council could still ignore it, and then you're really in a shitstorm there. So, I mean, if I was the state of Maryland, I wouldn't pack up the land out and land over just yet. It's probably good to go ahead and start making plans for what you're going to do with that land.

went out the stadium. But I wouldn't raise the white flag just yet. I don't think that the deal with the city is going to collapse, but the courts are unpredictable. Yeah. I'm sure that there's a lot of momentum. There's a lot of momentum for this thing right now. Yeah, you know, I read your column right before we started to record,

and it was very similar to what I said on radio today. You know, like, this was always problematic for the team for a lot of different reasons in terms of a return home. Number one, the name was an issue, no matter how you feel about the name. Number two, Snyder was a major problem in dealing with him and then in dealing with all of the, you know, the crap that surrounded him, all the investigations, et cetera. And then, but lastly, the team was so bad for so long, and there was not as much interest in the team, period. Now, there was always, you know, a feeling of we want to be back at RFK, we hate Landover, we hate this stadium. But 12 and 5, led by number 5 in 2024, makes everything easier for Mayor Bowser to, and, for Josh Harris to convince, you know, council members to vote yes on this because they're,

their residents, not every resident, not every constituent, but people are excited about the team again to a certain degree. And that excitement hasn't been there forever. So that's a big part of, you know, why everybody was so giddy yesterday. Tommy, I talked about this too. You know, juxtapose yesterday to, you know, Ted with the government. of Virginia, they were giddy too. They were, I mean, the people were shedding tears, if you recall, during that announcement about the move to Potomac Yards. And you and I came on here and said, you're leaving D.C.

Was there any recognition that you were leaving the city and that a lot of people aren't going to be thrilled about this? And, you know, there was that part of it, but there was also the part of it where Virginia was never going to, they were going to be impossible to deal with. So there was clearly some delusion as to, you know, how far along this was and, you know, and what, you know, Governor Yonkin could get done in the state of Virginia, whereas yesterday it felt much more like sort of finality. That one sounded like it was, you know, moving forward, but it wasn't. This one kind of feels, it felt like it was final and it feels like it's going to happen because everybody seems to. to want it to happen. More people want it to happen than don't want it to happen. In the last

case, you know, fewer people wanted it to happen than didn't. Anyway, yeah, what else about this? Well, something that bothers me, again, look, I am generally of the school thought, of the anti-Pint-Head school thought. I think that stadiums have a positive impact. on a community and professional sports teams, particularly when that stadium is more than a stadium. Right. Put an anchor for change in development. You know, I think those are very positive economic impacts for a city. And I pointed out they're important psychological impacts.

You may not like it. You may not be able to explain it. but you know that team played nine miles away and people talked about ever since from the time they left you know I wish they were back in the city I wish they were back at RFK

you know so there was there was something missing with the team even just like just down the road so all that said I mean I think these things are generally good for the city and there's a lot, but there is a lot of cheerleading going on. Okay.

And the one thing that I, I just, it's driving me nuts is people keep talking about how the great financial commitment that the team, Josh Harris and company are making, the $2.7 billion, you know, it's more than any other team that's built in the stadium and all this. And they keep leaving out. they're getting 90 acres of prime real estate in the deal to develop for them. That you can't, I don't know what the money, what the money amount is on that. I'm going to figure it out at some point. But I got to think that's worth a couple of billion right there.

Yeah. I don't disagree. You mentioned that last week and I had, I had our guy Eric, flack on the show talking about that as well. But you had mentioned it first. I just want to make sure I give you the credit for it. But no, you know, FedEx Field. Let's not pin a, oh, no, that's $2.7 billion is still a lot of money and it's more than, you know, take Kronki out of the situation. It's a massive commitment. It's the largest. single investment ever made into the city. But I get it. You know, they're not just getting a stadium

and ticket revenue. They're building up, you know, as you said, half of that property with retail, residential, et cetera, and they'll benefit from that for years. And the city believes it will benefit from tax revenue and, you know, all the things that they'll participate in. Because I saw it penciled out that they think basically, you know, over the next many decades, it'll generate, you know, close to $4 billion for the city. But what I, you said something that I wanted to mention. You said, you know, something was always missing. That's true.

Like it was always going to be different. But what was really missing from the new facility was winning. Because if they had been the winner at FedEx Field that they had been at RFK, it wouldn't have made the conversation about going back, you know, to the city. city go away because there were issues with FedEx Field that had nothing to do with the on-field product. I mean, traffic was a pain in the ass. Parking could be, I mean, they had plenty of it, but early on, there were just so many issues and they never really got them figured out. Everybody would have preferred an RFK site with Metro right there, with many different ways to get to the

stadium, many different transit opportunities and options. But when, if the team had been a functional franchise for the 27 years that it was there under Snyder, or the 24 years or five years that it was there under Snyder, we wouldn't hate it as much. And I've mentioned this to you before, but what's really interesting is I think one of the reasons I'm not like doing cartwheels yesterday is because I expected it. I mean, you and I have talked about this multiple.

times since the city got granted the land. The RFK site deal got passed by Chuck Schumer 2 a.m. in December in the morning. We knew that something was coming. I actually had some, I had C graves on before, after his announcement, but the week before I had put Eric on my radio show, Flack from Channel 9, to say, what's the update? What's taking so long? We're going to get this announcement at some point. Why haven't they done it yet? And he brought up that $410 million, you know, budget cut. from Congress for the 25 budget, which held it up. But the interesting thing is that they still got to play in Landover for the next five years, and the next five years are going to produce the stadium's greatest memories more likely than not.

I mean, it's not hard to clear that bar. That bar is so low. But they're going to have, they're going to play, and there's going to be an NFC championship game or two, played at Northwestfield over the final five years. I'm going to say at least one. I don't think that's crazy. And they're certainly going to play some playoff games at home. They've only played four total playoff games at FedEx Field since they moved in in 97.

One of them was during COVID as a 7-9 division winner. Four playoff games. That's it. Over 27 years. That's insane. But true. Yeah. All right.

I do want your thoughts on the draft. I'm sure you have some good ones. We'll do that. We should talk about Shadur Sanders. We've got other things to get to. We'll start doing that after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, how about that decision you have to make sometimes? When you're out with friends at night and that decision typically comes down to this.

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They'll take really good care of you. So, Tommy, what did you think of the draft? I was surprised by it, to be honest with you, because I mean, I thought their need for an edge rusher, a pass rusher, was so obviously prominent, and there were so many options available in the draft that I thought that they would at least pick one in the first. in the draft, but they didn't. And I think Lance Newmark said at one point, you know, we like what we have in the room.

And I'm thinking, what are you nuts have in the room? Didn't you watch a game last year? On the other hand, I think what they did was, you know, they basically, which is another way to go, and I don't have a problem with this to do this. You know, they help. their quarterback. They helped the most

important asset on the team. They did things to make his life better, to help his performance. You know, with an offensive tackle and a wide receiver in their first three picks among the first three picks.

So, you know, I can't argue with that, but I thought it was, I mean, I just don't understand their thinking about the lack of a pass rush. So I don't think they've signed one as a free agent yet, to be honest. I asked this question on radio today, and I put out a Twitter poll.

Do you think that after most of the off seasons in the books, do you think Washington gained ground on Philly, lost ground on Philadelphia, or the teams stayed the same as it was, you know, at the end of the year. So far, 52.6% said that they've gained ground on Philly. 40% said it's been the same and 7.4% said that they've lost ground on Philadelphia. I kind of came to the conclusion that they gained a little bit of ground, barely. It's so hard because really the draft, I can't really tell you based on the draft where it is. I think, you know, adding Laramie Tunsell and Debo Samuel to the offense, to your point, is good.

Like, I think that, you know, year two in Kingsbury system, adding Debo on a contract year, getting the tackle situation really figured out. I think there's a chance they're even better offensively next year. Yes, I think there is. You know, you started off by saying that Lance Newmark said they like what they have on defense. this is what I've been saying all off-season. Like, I don't see it because I know what I saw the last time I saw the team on the field. And, you know, Javon Kinlaw and Will Harris and Jonathan Jones and Dietrich Wise and Eddie Goldman, I mean, come on.

You know, they added Trey Amos in the second round as a corner. But, you know, but I've also- I like that pick. But I've also, yeah, I've also suggested that, you know, it's not even a suggestion. it's just truth that defense just is so unpredictable year to year. Like you remember the 22 skins were really good on defense. The 23 skins were horrible on defense. Yeah, there were a couple of differences in players,

but it's really hard to, like, will Philadelphia be the dominant defense they were next year that they were this past year? Maybe, but there's always great variability to defense year to year. And this is year two in the Joe Witt Jr. Dan Quinn system. There are players that were drafted last year that I know they like. They really like Jordan McGee. We didn't really get a chance to see him much because he was injured. You know, Johnny Newton was a rookie.

Maybe he really breaks out in his second year. Most rookies don't do what Jaden did in his rookie season. Frankie Louvre was already great. He's in his prime. Sanry Still had a phenomenal rookie season. Marshawn Latimore, hopefully you get the Marshawn Latimore that was playing at a Pro Bowl level in New Orleans. And, you know, Duran, for all intents and purposes, if you look at John Allen, Duran may see the same fate if he doesn't step up big and have, you know, the kind of year that he had during his contract year.

So I don't know, you know, that they're, you know, last year they kind of talked about an area of the team that the perception from the outside was it was a major problem. And I know they were talking about the offensive line and they said, we don't think it's as much of a problem. And it turns out they were right. Like they, that offensive line with Allegretti and Biottoch added to it and Cosmy and Coleman and, you know, and who am I missing? Wiley, you know, they played pretty well. It wasn't a dominant offensive line. So maybe, maybe defensively, you know, this will end up being a team. that even with what it has turns out okay. Now, to your point, I was surprised that they didn't draft an edge pass-rusher defense

event. You know, this was a position that everybody believed was deep. But it goes to show you, and I think it's proof, that what they did with the five picks because they didn't trade at all, is they just picked the best player on their board. They did that. And you know what? They're still in position to do that. They have so many needs.

Now, I pointed something. That's the thing that people sometimes lose sight of. For a 12-win team, they had a lot of needs. They have a tremendous amount of needs. Yeah. Now, there was, I talked about this on radio with Ben today, standing. The pick in the fourth round, Jalen Lane, the receiver from Virginia Tech, there were four edge players that came off the board in the seven picks prior to Washington.

And it wouldn't surprise me if two of them were possibilities for Washington. David Walker from Central Arkansas and Kyle Kennard from South Carolina. Now, Baron Sorrell, who went to the Packers, was supposed to be a much higher pick. Maybe Washington had him highly ranked. But, you know, it's just, it's possible they, you know, they can't control who picks in front of them and the players they get picked. And maybe they would have had that guy and they wouldn't have had the wide receiver. And by the way, punt returner from Virginia Tech. I'm going to read something to you because I read it on radio, but you'll really appreciate this.

This was great. Dolf, I'm giving you a lot of run today because I read this on radio and I'm reading it now. I usually don't read the same emails or tweets on radio and on the podcast, but this is too good not to read. He writes me in the subject is commanders draft, tragically bad media. He writes Tommy Kevin, the commanders had a solid draft, but the talk shows and pundits were simply awful. Everyone said they had to take an edge in a draft deep with edge rushers wrong.

Nobody I listened to, you, kime, standing. Nikki, got any of the names right. Weeks, if not months of work, and lots of, they really like this guy and that guy. And it was all wrong. I know the excuse, this was an unpredictable draft, but the magnitude of the miss by the media and pundance was epic. Perhaps some humility is in order, or maybe an apology. See, what Dolf doesn't understand is that the excuse wasn't this was an unpredictable draft. The excuse is every year we get it epically wrong, unless they're picking number two and you know it's going to be Jaden Daniels.

Yes. This is the number one thing that we talk about as sports fans, specifically football fans. during the course of the year that we are always way off on. And by the way, I wasn't necessarily, I didn't do a mock draft. I wasn't saying Washington would pick this particular

player. I actually told you three players they wouldn't pick. And they didn't, although I think only one of them was, no, two of them were on the board when they picked it 29. But, yeah, I mean, come on, dude. An apology?

I say all the time in talking about the draft. Look, I don't know anything about anything. This is what I think of the players, but I'm going to be wrong at even a higher rate than the teams are wrong at, which is 60 to 65% of the time. How would this guy say we need to go about getting this information? How are we supposed to, which are supposed to like mind melt with the front office and, you know, tap into that and think what the, how are we supposed to know who they're picking? In other words, like, you think that immense football knowledge is going to tell you who a team is going to pick? Not to mention when you're picking 29, you don't have any idea what's happening before they get

on the clock at 29. Look, I think, you know, there have been years in which, and it's not with this group, I can tell you this, but the last group and the group before, that there were people, and I would put myself into this group that would occasionally get tidbits of information. I can remember, you know, I pretty much threw out that they really liked Sam Cosme before round two back in 21 was that, and that they also liked a receiver, and I mentioned Diami Brown's name, because somebody had told me that they really, Scott Turner and a couple of other people really liked those players. So, you know, there were leaks in the building, you know, before

this latest group came in. But even that, it doesn't matter because the players have to be on the board and they, you know, have to feel like that it's the best player available. And like all that stuff. Like, you know, unless they're picking Jaden at number two or Caleb Williams at number one. And yeah, this draft was more, was harder, but I said all along it's harder because of where Washington's picking for us. I mean, I'm not sitting, I'm not getting defensive here. I want to make sure that people who are listening are clear. I'm not offering an apology to Dolph because, and I'm not offering up humility because I think the humility's gone with this process all along.

Like I'm watching and prepping for the draft. This is what I think. I don't know if that's what they think. Now, they do have a need for this position group, and this guy has the raw athletic score and has the character that they seem to have drafted last year based on. So you do try to connect the dots, but you don't really know. I mean, you can look at top 30 visits and glean something from that.

Ben actually got a couple right in his Washington mock draft, but usually it's not information. It's more kind of a connecting of the dots, but it's really hard. This is the hardest thing to do, the draft. With that said, I really do enjoy watching the draft. It's amazing to watch the draft and see the amount, the guys that do it well, and Kuiper got a lot of criticism this past weekend for his Shudor Sanders love. But, you know, the guys that are really good at this,

the amount of work they put in year round to this. But only to more likely than not be a lot more wrong than right about the players. I mean, that's the way it is. I'm curious. How? Where we failed, what should we have done differently? I'd be real curious about that. Okay, I'm going to get humble for a minute.

What's the guy named dude? Dolf? Ralph? Dolf. Yeah. Okay. Okay, Dolf. You know, maybe you should have some humility with that name. Okay. Okay. Leave him alone. He's a listener to the show. And he was expecting with all the conversation and all the names mentioned that we like actually thought the maybe he thought we had information on some of these players. But go ahead. So I'm asking, I mean, how would we go about changing our correcting our mistakes? What did this? we do wrong and how would we fix that? You're, you know, you've taken a step that you usually don't take, which is to consider that the, that Dolph might be right.

I don't think we did anything wrong. No. No, I know, I know, but you're, but you, you want, you would like some feedback on that. I'll give you the feedback. I'd like to tell me how, nothing. How we can change it? You know how we could change it? Don't talk about it, but that'll never work because everybody loves the conversation about it.

just to go in and say, I don't know, here's what they need, but who knows if they like anybody at that position? But you know what? That's actually an honest answer. Yeah, they need an edge. They need, you know, they could use another running back. They could use another playmaker. They could use a corner. But I don't know, maybe they like who they have. Because that's the other part of this. We're never exactly sure, especially with this. this new group what they think about some of the players from last year's draft. That's always, I think, an interesting part of the conversation heading into a draft.

The draft you should really be studying is last year's draft and the players that didn't make the significant contributions but might this year because most rookies don't make significant contributions their first year. So that's where their help is going to come from. this year, the Luke McCaffreys, the Jordan McGee's, the John Baptiste. Now, I hope that Trey Amos can really play. And after looking at the players, Tommy, I love the UCLA linebacker. Loved watching his film. Have no idea if it's going to be something that translates.

If he'll get the opportunity, if it'll be the right fit, if he's smart, all those things. But he looks like a player to me. You know, the one other thing. And I'm repeat myself here. But this notion of not picking my need is still insane to me. I mean, how many avenues of life can you think of where you have to go shopping and you walk into a place and you have a list of things you need? But then you stop and say, well, look at this thing. This is the best one out here on the floor.

This is the best thing I could have. It happens all the time. It happens all the time with people. I don't think it does. It happens with me. I go, well, I don't really go in to shop anymore, anywhere. But online, I might be looking for something, and then something will pop up, and I'm like, oh, wow, that's a good deal.

And I don't need one, but I could always use one. Yeah, I think a lot of people shop that way. Now, it's illogical to me. It's still a logical to me, and I still think, if, you pick by need, you'd probably be successful. The problem with your analogy is that the thing that you don't need that's better than the thing you need will still be there the next time you go to the store. And in the NFL draft, it's gone.

You only get a chance at the best player on the board once. It's not like you can go back the next day and get them. There's another board the following year. Well, that's true. I think the general managers would just say the problem is if you start drafting for need with players that just are okay there's a much higher failure rate with that player you'd rather take the player that you know is going to be a good player

you're more confident is going to be a good player but whatever the draft is over I thought they helped their quarterback in some key draft picks. You know, it looked like that's what they were doing. Well, they helped their quarterback before the draft by trading for Laramie Tunsell. And I think also trading for Debo Samuel.

Other than that, you know, Josh Connerly Jr., for those that Miss Cooley's film breakdown on Friday, he loves him. Says that, you know, this guy was definitely a first-round talent because of his incredible athleticism and his ability, you know, kind of his. space. He did, you know, have a few weaknesses, said he's not super strong yet, can get pushed back a little bit. But, you know, these things are always interesting, because today it's like, well, of course Josh Connerley Jr. is going to be the starting right tackle. Well, what if he's not ready because a lot of rookies aren't ready? Well, then Brandon Coleman or Andrew Wiley is going to be

the starting right tackle. Probably, you know, Wiley with Coleman inside. If Conner, Lee's not ready. If Connerley's ready, he starts at right tackle, and it's probably Brandon Coleman until Sam Cosmy gets back. I want to talk about Shadur Sanders. Can we do that to finish up the show? Absolutely, Paul. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, guys, I'm about to tell you about the most incredible, unforgettable gift you can get Mom this Mother's Day. Have you heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site that I order from now all the time where you can get the most iconic famous foods from restaurants all across the United States. And they'll ship it anywhere across the country for free just in time for Mother's Day.

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That's goldbelly.com, code sheen. for free shipping and 20% off your first order. All right, Tommy. Tell us about Shelly's. Well, I know it's Tuesday. We usually give out the Shelley's weekly food special on Thursday, but we're going to switch it up today and give it out on Tuesday. The Shelley special is their highlighted food menu from their menu of excellent food.

People are always surprised at how good the food is at Shelly's. it's top rate. I always have a good meal when I'm at Shelley's. And people who I've brought there who wouldn't expect at a cigar bar to get a great meal, come away, blown away, come away, blown away by how impressed they are with the food. So here's the Shelley specials for this week. And you tell me if there's a theme here that you recognize. Okay.

The Italian burger, half pound of Shelley's custom blend meat, top with Marrily's, Mariner sauce, provolone cheese, and pepperoni on a butter toasted roll. Okay? Yeah. The other one is the El Paso chicken pita with lime ranch, grilled, marinated chicken breast on a warm peter with cheddar with cheddar cheese, lettuce, tomato, grilled peppers, and onions. The last is a Holland salad with chickens. It's International Day today. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. Yes, it's a geographical menu today. Three great places, too. Right? Yes. We're going to Italy.

We're going to Amsterdam, and we're going to Mexico City. El Paso. Or El Paso. Yeah. El Paso. Well, that's not international. That's still in the States, I believe.

Yeah. Right. Have you ever been to El Paso? I've not been to El Paso. Neither have I. But there's a great song called El Paso. It's one of the great songs in American music history by Marty Robbins.

Okay. Write that one down. People get it off Spotify. After, by the way, you give us five stars for listening to the podcast. Continue. Marty Robbins. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. Please stop down at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district.

There's a Caps game Thursday night. they have a Wednesday night. They have a chance to clinch in game five Wednesday night. And I guarantee you, if they clinch, there'll be a Caps party at Shelly's. Those Capitals fans make it their headquarters. Caps can end the series tomorrow night at home. That would be a good thing. You don't want to go back to Montreal with a 3-2 lead.

And then how many times have we seen the 3-1 and then all of a sudden they're playing a game seven and it starts to tighten up a little bit. I think they win tomorrow night. I think they're the better team. I know that a lot of people have said this series could be 3-1 either way. I, you know, are the caps going to be one for 10 on the power play, you know, moving forward? Seems like that's just either great goaltending on Montreal's end or just bad luck. I like the caps to win tomorrow night.

What about you? I like the Caps win too, but let's remember, the Caps have lost five best of seven series in franchise history when they've led three to one. That's the most by NHL team in history. Yeah, not pleasant to consider. By the way, James Wood homered again yesterday in a 19 to five loss to the Mets. Nats did take two or four from the Mets. James Wood tied for third in home runs in the league, but he's only one home run behind the leaders

who each have 10. What a season James Wood is having right now. He's an all-star. He's a real deal. He's an all-star. Yet they're going to have an all-star in James Wood this year, aren't they? Oh, they had one last year with CJA. Oh, right.

Right. But, I mean, they're going to have a home-run leader in James Wood. Yeah. guy who may wind up being in the home run derby, possibly. Right. And Dylan Cruz all the sudden is hitting, so... It's hitting, yeah.

Back to hitting. All right. I want to talk about Shadur Sanders. So, most of you know the story now. Shadur Sanders was drafted in the fifth round by the Cleveland Browns. The 144th player taken overall in a draft that had 257 players taken. He was supposed to... to go much earlier. How much earlier is debatable. I think by the time we had gotten to last Thursday

the first round, there was, you know, a bit of a consensus that he might not get picked in the first round. Now, the consensus is a media consensus, not an NFL team consensus, but, you know, even with the media members, you could tell they were starting to get a little bit concerned that a lot of the conversation about Shadur Sanders going, you know, number nine to New Orleans, that had gone away, 21 to Pittsburgh. You know, they were saying if he doesn't get picked by Pittsburgh at 21, he's not going to get picked in the first round. Well, he wasn't picked in the first round, second round, third round, fourth round, and wasn't picked until the fifth round. If you're wondering, Cleveland did trade up to select him at 144 overall. So Tommy, the Shadur-Sanders story,

I know you believe it has many, many layers to it. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that these layers aren't worthy of, you know, us talking about them. But I'm just going to give you kind of the way I feel about this, in my opinion, because it's not very complex. You know, it's my simplicity that makes me so complex, Tommy. But I talked about Shudor Sanders during the course of the season. I talked about him leading to this draft. This is my eyes, which are not trained eyes, okay, watching him play many games over the two years that he was at Colorado. And my opinion simply put all along was this.

He was not a first-round caliber prospect at quarterback. I didn't personally think he was even close to a first-round quarterback. I never thought watching him this is a starting. NFL quarterback. Now, did I think he was terrible? Did I think he couldn't, did I think like he couldn't be a backup or be a low-end starter? I'll never forget the first game that I watched Shitter-Sanders. Beginning of the 20-23 season, they opened up with TCU, and he was incredible. You know, there was so much hype over Dion's debut as a coach with his two sons, as it turns out with the best player in the country for the last two years in Hunter.

But, you know, this quarterback from Jackson State to Colorado, and he lit TCU up, threw for four touchdowns, 500-plus yards, and they upset TCU 45 to 42. And I was like, wow, that team, Dion, and Hunter and Shadur, he looked poised. He had, you know, playmaking ability, had a lot of presence about him. Now, TCU ended up being a bad team, as it turned out in 2020, a terrible defensive team. And he had a couple of more decent performances. They beat Nebraska. They beat Colorado State in an epic double overtime game.

And then they went to Oregon, Tommy, as a 3-0 ranked team in week four of 2023. And they were 21-point underdogs. And I remember saying, uh-oh. they're about to get humbled here. And from that moment on, I mean, they got routed, 42 to nothing, or maybe it was 42 to 7. And Dan Lanning, the Oregon coach, this was when he said after the game, you know, we play, they play for clicks, we play for wins.

You know, he had that line. I just, from that moment on, and any college football fan, we've seen a lot of Colorado the last two seasons. We've watched a lot of Shadur, Sanders. You know, I never thought after that first game against TCU that I was watching anything other than an NFL backup quarterback. He held it too long. He took big sacks. I thought he had like this presence about him, no doubt. Like he had a cool demeanor. I thought he had pocket presence, but he didn't have a big arm. He wasn't athletic like his father at all. Doesn't mean

I'm right. But that's the way I had talked about him. And clearly that's how NFL teams saw him. I think clearly that's the way NFL teams saw him. So then you get to your favorite line. Is the juice worth the squeeze to take Shadur Sanders if you see him as a backup quarterback in the NFL? This is not necessarily analogous to the Kaepernick situation, although it is from the perspective of,

was the juice worth squeezing when Kaepernick at that point, and I know a lot of people don't believe this to be true, but he was only a backup quarterback at that point in his career. He was not a starting quarterback at that point in his career. He had deteriorated performance-wise and was no longer one of the best 32. I did think he was one of the best 64, but it was the, is the juice worth to squeeze? You're going to bring all of this attention and all of this media, and he's going to be the single biggest focus as a backup quarterback. Well, Shadur Sanders was going to bring all of that. and more as a guy that most NFL teams only saw as a backup quarterback.

I'm not even touching on the he didn't interview well, all of these reports that came out. I believe most of them. You know, the arrogance, the entitled meant that many people spoke of, none of these interviews apparently went very well. Doesn't mean that he can't change. Look, you know who didn't get interviewed very well? Do you remember how Cam Newton was starting to? fall down draft boards in 2011.

Uh-oh. Cam Newton isn't smart. Cam Newton is a pain in the ass. Cam Newton took big money at Auburn. Cam Newton is arrogant. Yeah, but you know what happened? Because he's an extraordinary talent, he got picked number one overall by Carolina.

This dude wasn't Cam Newton. This guy wasn't, you know, um, uh, you know, certainly wasn't Caleb Wilson. There were some concerns about Caleb Williams last year. Remember a lot of the concerns about too much involvement from people.

Remember, he cried in his mother's arms after the last game. He's painting his fingernails. Ridiculous things. But there were people that were saying things that Caleb Williams wasn't necessarily, you know, interviewing well or got picked number one because he's an extraordinary talent. that's not what Shadur Sanders was. So all the other crap that teams perceived, I don't know if it was perception or reality,

but they didn't want to deal with it. And I'll just, I agree. I'll just end with this. Cleveland's got like five quarterbacks on their roster. You know, they drafted Dylan Gabriel before him. They have Joe Flacco. They have, oh God, why am I blanking on the other quarterbacks? The guy from Pitt that was drafted.

the first round by the Steelers. Didn't they... Kenny Pickett. I'm forgetting somebody. They got somebody else on the roster, too. They, at least... Blacko, Pickett? No, Deshawn Watson, duh.

But coming off an injury, and probably never going to play again. Don't be shocked if Shudur Sanders doesn't make the team. He's a fifth round pick. Now, he shouldn't have been a fifth round pick. His talent said, at least

night two. You know, whether it was second or third round, it said night two. But I hope for him that this was a bit of a wake-up call if he needed it. Maybe a lot of this stuff isn't true, other than, you know, the evaluation of him as a player. But this guy should go in and hopefully there is none of the drama surrounding him that I think teams feared would. and, you know, and he proves people wrong. We'll see. But I think there's just as much chance as he makes the team and starts as he gets cut from the team.

What did you think about Shudor Sanders? Did you see the video of the, I think it was the Brown's GM and the coach? Yeah, Andrew Barry and Stavansky, yeah. Yeah. When they announced the thing. Yeah, they looked thrilled, didn't they? Oh, my God. You know, that's a familiar look to Washington football fans.

The owner just told us to pick this guy look. Yeah, right. That's what that is. Yeah. I mean... He had his jersey retired at Colorado. Come on. You know, I mean, talk about setting up for failure.

And I agree with you. The juice would definitely not be worth the squeeze. If this was a number one prospect and you had to put up with the whole Dion Sanders' side show, you could make the case to do that. Anything other than top prospect and you've got to put up with Dion, say, halfway through the season when his son is right at the bench, you know, get the quote here and there that, you know, he should be starting in Cleveland or something like that because you know that's coming.

That'll be coming. Yeah, but not now. Now I think there's a bit of humble pie on the evaluation of the player. Oh, I don't think there is in the Sanders camp. I don't think there is at all. You know, what's so funny is Dion's so old school. I've always been into Dion. I love him.

I loved him as a player. I love him as a coach. He's, and yet, you know, his son apparently didn't interview well. apparently he came off as, you know, way to, you know. Let's remember. Dion was the one who said, you know, earlier this year. I know. You know, there's some teams we're not going to let him go play for.

Well, it's humble pie for him too. Because here's the difference between, you know, Shadur and Eli. Eli was a top prospect. He was a high-level, you know, sure-fire prospect. Shadur wasn't. And, oh, by the way, you know, I saw. some of this on social media? Like, you know, the Mannings,

they didn't have to deal. Yes, they did. People crushed Archie Manning for pulling him away from the Chargers. He got a blitz. He was, this was the first family of football and people were really critical of Archie

and what he did. But it's also a different time that we're living in, in terms of social media and attention around all of this. But, you know, I hope, like, this guy's already got his own brand and he's got his own clothing line, legendary, I mean, et cetera. I mean, I, you know, I hope this, I hope he figures it out. It's just sometimes it's more on the people around them when they're 22, 23 years old than it is about the 22 or 23 year old. I know you

don't always agree with me on that, but I, you know, got some bad advice, you know, along the way. He assumed that he was right there with Cam Ward, that he was going one or two. And that made... It's funny. It's funny you mentioned Cam Newton. There's another video of Sanders blowing off Cam Newton on the field when Newton came up to try to talk to him about something. There's videos of him and Cam Ward. Are you sure Cam Newton?

Because there's the video of him and Cam Ward. No, no, it was Cam Newton. Okay. Sam Newton wanted to walk up to talk to him. Yeah. And Sanders just blew them off. I said, no, not now. Yeah.

Not now. You know, the other part of this, too, just in general now, athletes coming out of college, they're already rich, many of them. Yes. They're already worth millions. They've already made millions of dollars. I mean, Shuderd already basically pocketed $8 million in two years, you know, or $6 million or whatever it was.

and they don't need this as much. I mean, they should want it. You know, eventually that money will go away. They didn't make, you know, generational money for themselves and their family members and generations to come. And they could certainly make a lot more being a really good football player in the NFL. But I thought that was fascinating all weekend long. And yet, I just kept sitting there going, he's not very good. Like, why can't people, like, Mel loved him.

Mel thought he was, and I love Kuiper. But I don't know. Like, the NFL would have picked him in the first round if they thought he was a legitimate first round talent. This was not collusion. This wasn't afraid of Dion or anti-Dion or anti. I mean, they've picked arrogance and they've picked problems and they've taken chances on players so many times.

over the years when those players have tantalizing talent. And they didn't see him that way. That should be the conversation starter from my standpoint in Shadur Sanders. Just so everybody understands before you start going down these paths of, you know, collusion or racism or whatever, he's not that good. He's just okay. And then again, maybe he'll end up being great in the NFL. Yeah, because a lot of the quarterbacks that get picked in the second half of the draft end up, you know, not a lot, but occasionally there's a Dak Prescott or a Kirk Cousins.

You know who he got comp to throughout the process? I heard him comp to Kirk Cousins more than anybody. And there are similarities, except Kirk's processing an ability to throw with anticipation as a college player was much higher than Shuders. but athletically they're about the same although Shitter is probably a better athlete. All right, is there anything else? You didn't stay up and watch the NBA game last night. It's too bad.

It was great old school, brilliant basketball. Jimmy Butler was unbelievable. Which one? The Miami game? No, the Golden State came last night against Houston. Yeah, the Cleveland Cavaliers beat the heat by 55 points.

That series is over. But Rockets Warriors is an incredible series. Minnesota Lakers, and Rockets Nuggets Clippers tonight with the Clippers favored on the road in game five. Yokic on Sunday, Tommy, on Saturday, 36 and 21. In a great game. All right, that's what I'll be doing tonight.

I'll be watching Hoops. I'll talk to you on Thursday, all right? Okay, boss.