The Kevin Sheehan Show - Gallstones and Gout

Episode Date: April 2, 2020

Thom called in from the hospital where he is in pain and is also being a pain in the ass to those attending to him. He's got gallstone issues and will be fine. We talked virus, all-time Redskins Dream Team and more. Kevin talked Skins' RB situation, a hypothetical trade possibility for Trent Williams, and more with Aaron as well. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. All right. Tommy is with us by telephone. In a moment, I will tell you where he's calling from. Aaron's here. I am here. You know, we're in day whatever of this crazy world we're living in right now. I had somebody tell me, and I forget, Aaron, if you were here. when I was on the phone with the person that told me yesterday, they said, thank God, April is here because yesterday felt like it was March 91st. You know, like March was an awfully long month. But let's get to something serious, although it doesn't sound that serious based on talking to Tommy right before we started this podcast. But Tommy is calling us today, or we are calling him, he's in the hospital. Man, you've had so many issues. This one isn't a serious issue, we don't think.

But go ahead and tell everybody what happened in the pain that you were in and why you're in the emergency room in Frederick. Well, it's really amazing. Like, I'm being beaten dead by a thousand paper cuts, all different here. You know, from bronchitis last August to gout a couple weeks ago. still have down. Yeah, I know. And now I wind up in the hospital with gallstones, a gallbladder attack.

I had a devastating attack yesterday morning. I nearly passed out from the pain. Oh, my God, the gallstone is killing me, Liz. You got to help me. Oh, my God. I tell you what, I tell you what, my tone in this situation, my, my, my, the, the volume level in terms of, uh, of, uh, it was much lower, let's say. It was like, this is serious, Liz, I got to go.

You know, because, because I was, I was trying to get words out because I was afraid I wouldn't get the words out before I passed out. No. It was that bad, huh? Yeah. Oh, boy. I'm sorry. Yeah.

I'm sorry. It was, it was that bad. But I, you know, I haven't, fortunately, I haven't seen you that mad that often. I mean, you've raised your voice with me over the years at times, but I haven't seen you in pain, and I can only imagine. Well, I'm glad you got the words out. When you got the words, you didn't pass out, right? You didn't pass out.

No, I didn't. Tell everybody what struck you, not physically, when you arrived in the emergency room. Well, I'm at Frederick Memorial Hospital. uh and i got here i guess about 10 30 yesterday morning and i was the only one in the uh emergency that's crazy they they treated me right away i mean i got treated diagnosed pretty quickly and uh the pain had subsided on its own pretty quickly after i got in here they didn't have to give me painkillers or anything but uh this place this place is like a ghost town. It's not that

busy. I mean, you know, and everybody's pretty relaxed. I mean, this is not ground zero by any stretch of the imagination. I think I read as of Wednesday there were five people

hospitalized in Frederick for the coronavirus, and I think three had been released. So right now here, while they're taking precautions. I have not heard anyone say the word to me, coronavirus, not once. You know, when you sent me the text yesterday, and you sent me a text because you said I'm not going to be able to do the podcast tomorrow, meaning today, because of what you're going through. And you mentioned it's hardly a war zone here. They've only had five people hospitalized, which you just said, and you texted that to me. And I

sent you a text back, bad news, but sounds like good news too. Sorry about that. I hope you feel better. When I read that, when I read your text, I was like, well, you know what, Galstone's, he's going to be all right. That's not going to be what gets him. It's going to be something much more severe than that. But to think that, you know, all we're hearing are the stories of overrun, you know, hospitals and emergency rooms and health care facilities. And we know that that's true in a lot of areas of the country, especially, you know, the New York area. You know, that's good news. It doesn't mean that a week from now it's not going to be.

overrun or two weeks from now. Right. And they're predicting the peak to be two weeks from now. But I think I may have mentioned this to you when we were talking before the podcast. You know, the fact that it was empty. Now, 10.30 in the morning, I'm sure that it's not their busiest time of the day anyway. In most emergency rooms, you know, and by the way, Tommy, I don't know if I told you this. I actually volunteered.

It was sort of an internship thing when I was in college in an emergency room, sort of check-in situation at Sibley. And, you know, Sibley is near American University. And I'm telling you, the, you know, post-midnight arrivals into an emergency room, especially with young people. You know, near a college campus is incredible. But I bet a lot of people who use the emergency room in some cases, use a hospital emergency room in some cases as a health care provider because they don't have other options. I bet a lot of people for things that they typically might go into an emergency room for or just staying away right now for fears of that would be the worst place to go if I'm trying to avoid coronavirus. Well, those are my thoughts.

I sat there in pain on the couch saying, you know, I got to ride this out. I got to ride this out. And then I literally could see myself being transported via ambulance, you know, if I didn't speak up. and say, this is not good. This is something like I've never had before, and it's not just going to take care of itself. So what are they saying? What do you have to get done?

Well, I have to wait until Friday morning to have the surgery because I have medication that needs to clear my body before they can operate on me. Which one of the meds? Your gout med, your show. I take a blood. I take a blood center. Oh, the blood center?

Yeah. Okay. I take a blood center, and they want that cleared. Last time I took it was yesterday morning, and they want that cleared before they operate. It's a laparoscomy or laparotomy kind of operation where they don't have to cut me open. They do three small incisions and stick a camera in there and pull it out. Ah. Do you go under for this, right?

not half under? Well, I would hope so. I mean, if it's my choice, if it's my choice, I would have been under from the time I walked in to the hospital. The TV knocked out until you could take care of it. Yeah. Oh, boy.

I mean, the doctors have been very good. A terrific surgeon who explained everything. And this morning, all my blood work is much, like there was a lot of inflammation everywhere last night. pancreas, my liver. Today, that inflammation is down dramatically, to almost normal. And I have no pain or discomfort now, which means I don't have a gallstone lodged in my, in a pipe somewhere in my system. So all, everything's looking good right now. I just want to get out of here. And I think I make it out here by tomorrow night.

I have the operation schedule for tomorrow morning. I think they'll let me go by tomorrow night. And then it's two weeks of recovery at home, which really cuts into my activity time of sitting at home. Yeah, well, I'm wondering if maybe, you know, let me do my normal diagnosis on this. Do you drink a lot of water? I drink a ton of water. I drink 40 ounces of water before I leave the bank. bathroom in the morning.

Oh, God. Well, that'll send you back to the bathroom pretty quickly. So I think a lot of water. But you've been moving around, you know, you've been, I mean, you've been going on walks. I exercise. I've been doing more exercising than walking. I've been, I exercise 20 minutes a day at home. Yeah.

Like with yoga, stretching, some dumbbells. And I'm been diligent about it every day for two weeks. I've been doing it. I haven't been doing that much walking, but as far as drinking water, I'm a devoted drinker of water. I drink a lot of it. Well, I want to. And no beer in three weeks. You know what's really interesting?

Did we talk about this the other day? I forget. You know, somebody, a friend of mine called me the other day and said, I've gone to the liquor store three times today for the next week. You know, like the liquor stores are open. They're considered essential right now. I'm pretty sure. But for whatever reason, Tommy, over the last couple of weeks, I haven't had one drop of alcohol.

I have been drinking lots of water. I have been, I've actually been working out on my Peloton, you know, every other day going on tons of walks with my new favorite person in my house, my English bulldog Lainey. She's my best friend. I think she might be the only person that really likes me right now. We're all getting on each other's nerves. And I've lost 11 pounds in a week, in about a week and a half, basically.

So I'm going to keep going on this because for me, like no alcohol, no sodas, I think, are a big difference maker. Big difference maker. I think cutting out. Well, I mean, the alcohol, you want to keep your immune system as strong as possible. Well, that was the other reason, exactly. Yeah. But you do know that people are drinking away. they're hunkering down period.

I mean... Oh, I know. You can go one or two ways on this way. Yeah. You know? Right. And I went the way you did. I look, I remember what Don King said when he was doing time, and he said, I made time work for me.

Right. So I went on a diet. I was losing weight. I had lost 13 pounds over three weeks. I'm going to lose a lot more now because of this. Right. But, and I was working out diligently. And I was on a writing project that I've been talking about doing for years with no alcohol.

So I had taken this as an op. I figured this is my way to win. Well, I mean, I think the Don King thing is an interesting way to look at it. I would also suggest that some people who are, you know, imbibing on a daily basis and maybe overdoing it would say that they're making the out of their time too. This is a good way to pass the time as well and may make a lot of the stress and anxiety associated with these days a little bit easier. I wanted to mention this real quickly because I mentioned it to Aaron when he walked in and I talked about it with Greg this morning on the radio show. When I came in here this morning and I come in here really early for my radio

show, I do the radio show in the same studio that we're doing the podcast from. I noticed something as I walked by the entrance to Safeway and then looked inside Safeway, every single person I saw was wearing a mask. And I hadn't seen that yet. I've seen a lot of mask wearing, don't get me wrong, but not everybody. Like it's like one out of every three people have a mask. Well, this morning, I stopped and I looked and I'm like, I don't see one customer in here that isn't wearing a mask or a scarf or something. And it was really iry. Like it was Not that we haven't been reminded

on an hourly basis of how unique and how serious this is but like to see that I was like man I better get myself a mask Now the president who by the way yesterday Maybe you missed this Tommy And I mean I was waiting for the news on this And thank God he was able to give it to us

He is number one on Facebook If you didn't know that He shared that information with us yesterday I don't even know what that means but it's a good thing that he's not wrapped up into himself right now during this crisis. Talk about a gallstone. Oh, my God, he's got one in his brain. But that was good news, because I was wondering, weren't you wondering where he was ranked on Facebook?

I was wondering anyway. And he told us that he was ranked number one. But he also talked about, in all seriousness, either yesterday or the day before, and maybe it was Fauci and or Dr. Burks, who, by the way, certainly are better communicators, as we've discussed. And you sort of feel like you're getting a real story from them. They talked about, you know, if you don't have a mask, a scarf will do. Now, somebody brought up this morning on the radio show, what about a handkerchief? I said, you know what?

I'll have to wait and ask Tommy if he comes on the podcast today because you still carry handkerchiefs, don't you? No, I don't. No, I don't. I don't still carry handkerchief. Did you? I don't wear a fedora and I don't carry hankets. Do you have a bandana?

No. I don't have a bandana. You know, I'd say about half the people in the hospital working are not wearing that. Interesting. That might change. Like the nurse who's been taking care of me? No mask. What's she like?

Well, you know, remember that Seinfeld episode where, where Elaine can't see a doctor because she winds up on the difficult list. Right. Well, that's kind of where I am. I'm on the difficult list. Well, I mean, I started out, you know, telling them, they told me when they checked me into the room what they wanted me to do, and I said, well, I'm not going to do that right now.

I'm going to do this right now. What was it that they asked you to do? Because this, I would have predicted that that would have been your answer. You're totally uncoachable in these situations. What was it that they said they were going to do that you said you wouldn't do? I wanted to change into, look, Liz, who can't see me here, my wife, she can't, she was with me at the ER and with me for all that, but cannot visit me in the hospital. Why? Because they're not allowing visitors.

Because of Corona. Yeah. Okay. But, you know, she went home and got a pair of shorts and a T-shirt for me and some cloths. which I wear around the house. You and a pair of us. Because I don't want to wear a gown, you know? Yeah.

I mean, you know, I know you like wearing gown. It's a hospital garb. I mean. Yeah, I know that, but I've been in the hospital enough to know that you can wear the stuff. You can get around that? You can wear stuff from home? Yeah. So I wanted to put on my, I wanted to change first before they started putting me in bed and

hooking me up and stuff. Right. And they weren't happy with that. They wanted to do what they wanted to do right away because that's what they do. And I told them all that wasn't going to happen. I said, I'm going to go in the bathroom. I'm going to change it in my clothes, get comfortable. Then you can connect me with anything you want.

And it's been downhill from there. You're the worst. Honestly, you really are. Good God. It's been downhill from there. Just do what they tell you to do for crying out loud. I mean, they must have like some sort of marker on your door out front. You know, some sort of big red X mark that says, you know, problem.

Like I said, like Elaine, difficult is probably on my chart. Yeah. Oh, man, I would hate to be in that hospital with you as a patient. I mean, it was rough enough with you as a partner for seven and a half years. All right. I wanted two things that I wanted to get to, and then we'll let you run. And if a nurse comes in and starts yelling at you, we actually don't want you to hang up the phone. We'd like to listen to that.

And the entire exchange between you and a doctor or a nurse. But today would have been over. Now, the doctors, I might want to point out, I've gotten along great with it. Anybody know you? Anybody recognize you? No, that hasn't happened yet. It happened a lot in the past, but not now. Well, maybe you ought to tell them who you are.

Yeah, that's a good move. Yeah. So today would have been the home opener for the Nats. It's a shame. We can't have that, but everybody understands why. But, you know, that would have been, Tommy, one difficult ticket to get. I mean, already before, you know, the season was postponed, they were saying that the opening day ticket, which would have been today or tonight,

was the game scheduled for day or night? Day. Today, I think a three o'clock game or something like that. It was going to be one of the most. sought after and in-demand tickets in recent memory in this city. Really? Yeah. Now, game three for the World Series, the first game at home was off the charts.

And, you know, I think we talked about it then. I went to that game, game three. And there was definitely, you know, a sense of a crowd that had paid big money to be in there. You know, it was an event bandwagon crowd. And then I think the next two games were more like, say, the wild card. crowd rather than the, you know, the baby shark crowd. So, yeah, this ticket was in high, high demand. I don't know.

I don't think you were going to be able to get into the park for less than 500 bucks, I think, for today. I think that's what we saw. And I remember the atmosphere outside the ballpark on the street was like nothing I had ever seen before. Oh, yeah, that day. That was phenomenal. Great fall evening.

It was a Friday, too. It was a Friday night. Pretty sure it was a Friday night, too. I wanted to get to this, and then we'll let you go back to whatever you're doing. You're watching TV, I would assume, from your hospital bed. So the Redskins on Twitter, Tommy, put out their dream team draft, their all-time dream team draft where you went through and you picked various players at each position that they made available.

They made the players available. And as an example, you know, you got for the tight ends, you got three tight end options, and you picked one. You know, for defensive end, you got like eight options and you picked four. And I wanted to share this with everybody because some of the players that were made available in this all-time Redskins Dream Team draft are just incredible. and then players that weren't included are even more sort of head scratching. I'm going to start with the quarterback options, okay, and you pick one quarterback for your Redskins' all-time dream team. All right, you draft one. Sonny Jorgensen, of course, is there, Sammy Ball, all right, Billy Kilmer, Doug Williams, Joe Thysman, Mark Rippin, Kurt Cousins, and Alex Smith.

Alex Smith? Yes. Are you kidding me? No, I'm not kidding you. Alex Smith was one of the players made available. And I looked at that. Quarterbacks are the first thing offered up, and then you pick your one quarterback,

and then you hit next, and then the running backs pop up. Alex Smith is one of the quarterbacks made available for the all-time Redskins Dream Team. Being drafted on their Twitter, You can go to the Washington Redskins on Twitter and do this. Now, that's ridiculous. Nothing disrespectful intended towards Alex Smith, who we are all wishing, you know, a healthy, healthy return.

RG3 should absolutely be on that list before Alex Smith. Yes. I mean, if Alex Smith is on the list and RG3 isn't, this could have been the social media team, you know, and we've seen their social media. over the last couple of years, sort of goes hand in hand with their overall public relations handling. You know, they just, they're off two to three beats, always.

Brad Johnson should have been on that list, clearly, if Alex Smith was. So that was the first one that was a bit of a head scratcher. The second one that was a bit of a head scratcher, and I'm going to save the best for last, is the defensive back options, and you picked four, and you could have picked four corners or four safeties, you know, it didn't matter. But they had Daryl Green and Ken Houston and Pat Fisher and Sean Taylor and Champ Bailey and Brigg Owens in DeAngelo Hall and Mike Bass, all right, and Landon Collins. Oh, my God. Landon Collins was an option for your defensive backs.

By the way, the one... Well, look, I understand this. They don't want to ignore their own players that are currently on the roster. I understand the public relations move on Landon Collins. I don't get the Alex Smith one unless Alex Smith is going to be your quarterback. It's an all-time Redskins dream team. I know that. Alex Smith played nine games and Landon Collins has played one season.

Let me get to the one. I know. It's a PR move. I get that. Yeah, but there's something else at work here, and you'll realize it when I mention this last position group. The offensive linemen made available for you to draft were Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Jim Lechay, Chris Samuels, Lenhoss, Jeff Bostic from the Olden Times, Vince Permuto, and Turk Edwards. And then there was one other player made available, and then there was one clear and obvious omission. The last player made available was Brandon Sheriff. And not on the available players to pick for an all-time dream team was Trent Williams. Well, after what Trent Williams did to you, would you put him on the list?

That's not the point. The point is that this rose above just your little social media team because the owner's favorite guy, Alex Smith, who clearly showed, shouldn't be on here is. And Trent Williams, who clearly should be on here and made available before Brandon Sheriff isn't. I mean, come on, man. It's like, it's a social media fun thing to do in these crazy times and gives people something to fool around with. Don't be petty. Like, come on. You can't have... No, I get that. Look, I think the Redskins have handled as far worse than you do. but on the other hand, I get petty in this.

If they think that, I mean, if I'm the redskins, and God help me, that would be a worse disease in the gallbladder. I'm not putting Trent on that list. I don't even recognize the except. Come on. Stop it. I'll tell you what. Do you think Trent Williams is going to be in the ring of honor someday? Well, this pretty much, this pretty much, you know, gives you an.

indication on that. Like I wanted to be able to just text this to Vincent Taylor, Trent's agent, and just say, hey, Vince, that ring of fame, hope, you can forget about it. He's not even in a simple online dream team draft, you know, poll isn't even listed as an option. And a guy Brandon Sheriff who's missed, I don't know, 15 games in the last three years is. Look, Trent Williams, Trent Williams is one of the greatest offensive linemen in team history. No matter what you think of what's going on right now. Trent Williams, I mean, he's not better

than Jacoby, Lechay, or Grimm, you know. He's probably not better than Samuel. I think that's debatable, but that's fine. It's debatable. If you want to pick Chris Samuels before him, but it's debatable. But Trent Williams has been one hell of a football player, even though he's missed games and he's been suspended.

We all know this story. But based on Brandon Sheriff being in there, or even a guy like Jeff Bostick or Len Haas, two great centers, don't get me wrong. Look, I think Raleigh McKenzie should have been on this list. Look, John Jansen's not on the list. John Jansen's not on the list. Good, good pull. You know, John Jansen and Raleigh McKenzie should have been on that list before Brandon

Sheriff at this point. Yeah. But again, you want to have somebody who's on your roster. You know? Well, they don't have somebody who's on the roster. for all their positions. They don't? No.

Actually, wait a minute. Running back, Adrian Peterson's on here. Wide receiver, there's nobody on the list that's on the team right now. No, you can't do wide receiver. Nobody's tight end. Offensive linemen, nobody, yeah, Brandon Sheriff. Nobody defensive line. The defensive line choices were Butts Manly, Charles Mann, and Gene Brito.

The linebackers, actually Kerrigan is on the, list. And you could argue that Carrigan deserves to be on the available list. Yes, you could. You could make that case. Hamburger. The residents don't have a history of a great linebackers. Great point. Hamburger, Fletcher, Coleman, Ken Harvey-Harvey, and Ryan Carrigan are on the list. I mean, LeVar Arrington's not on the list. Not that I think he should be, you know, because I think his career here was too short in the same way Wilbur Marshall's was probably too short, you know, in terms of the years played here. You could have put Neil O'Kulowitz on the list, but the D.Bs do have DeAngelo, I do have Landon Collins as an option, which is sort of silly.

This is a PR move. I get the reason for the omissions and the additions, except for Alex Smith. I don't get that one. I mean, that's an insult. Is your first, so you're telling me that your first reaction to not seeing Trent Williams made available, but Brandon Sheriff, isn't that that sort of petty? Understandably petty. Petty, I would validate. I would

be just as petty. Although I would have traded Trent Williams before all this happened. But if I was in this situation, I'd be just as petty. That guy wouldn't exist to me. Yeah, I don't know. If you're going to do this and you're going to make it serious, when I say serious, you're going to make it serious fun.

People are going to play this and they're going to think about it. They're going to be looking for Trent. Like, did you, Alex Smith? Where's RG3? Why can't I have RG3 as an option? No matter what you think of Robert Griffin III, his games in Washington far exceed when Alex Smith did here in nine and a half games. I mean, Brad Johnson far, his career here far exceeds what Alex. Alex Smith produced in nine and a half games.

It's a joke. Are you surprised they put Kirk Cousins on the list? Yeah, a little bit, but he deserves to be on the list. Of course he deserves. He owns seven franchise passing records. Yeah. You know, the running... I mean, he was so good that they couldn't keep him off the list.

Who would you pick his... And you know they wanted to keep him off the list. They probably wanted to keep him on the list. But then again, it's like they didn't... They would have wanted RG3 on the list. You would think so. Yeah, you would think so. But he's got,

he put Alex Smith, Redskins quarterback next year. Um, of the quarterback options, I, I went through it. I picked Sonny. You probably picked Ball, right? Sammy Ball, yeah. Of the running backs, you got to pick two. Um, I picked Riggins and I picked Clinton Portis over Larry Brown barely. Um, Morris.

I would pick Rigo and Larry Brown. I knew, I knew you would. Um, by the way, left off. that list of running backs. And he should have been on the list, actually, is Mike Thomas, who was the 1975 rookie of the year and was a really good back for about the same length of time that Stephen Davis was and George Rogers was, and Ernest Biner was, for that matter. I mean, the difference is Biner, you know, one was on a Super Bowl winning team, as was George Rogers, even though when we got to that postseason with George Rogers, it was Timmy Smith, who ended up being the primary

back in the postseason. There's a receiving. missing off the list of receivers that I think you will pick up on, and I'll just mention them right now, and you had to pick three wide receivers from this group. Art Monk, Bobby Mitchell, Charlie Taylor, Charlie Brown, Gary Clark, Hugh Taylor, Pierre Garcone, Ricky Sanders, and Santana Moss. No Roy Jefferson. I knew you'd say that. No Roy Jefferson. And you know, you could actually make the case that Henry Ellard should have been on this list. You know, if Charlie Brown's on the list. I picked Art Monk, to me, Art Monk and Charlie Taylor are the two best receivers in franchise

history. Yes. And you can put him in either order. Actually, I think Charlie Taylor may have been a better Hall of Fame player than Art Monk. And then to me, it came down to one of my all-time favorite Redskins, who is Gary Clark and Bobby Mitchell, and I pick Clark. And I understand why you should pick Mitchell, but from, you know,

That's just a personal preference because I just loved Gary Clark. It's hard not to pick Gary Clark as your third receiver. That's a tough one. That is a very tough one. Yeah, I mean, you wouldn't. You know, because Santana Mawks means a lot to this franchise and what he did while he was here during the difficult time, you know? I hear you.

I think it's so hard, like, when you have the options of players that are comparable to those players, and those previous players won. You know, they're world champions. You know, Gary Clark is a two-time Super Bowl winning champion. I'm not picking Santana Moss or Pierre Garsohn over Gary Clark. No, I'm not. But you're leaving a lot of good guys off your list. Who else have I missed?

Roy Jefferson. I mean, what you're doing is by only pick three, right? Yes. So what I'm saying is when you pick the three, those are difficult choices. The third choice is difficult because you're leaving a lot of good guys off your list. In that particular position, you really are. I mean, this team has three Hall of Fame wide receivers in Monk, Mitchell, and Taylor. And, you know, Gary Clark, a borderline, you know, case, especially if you were to count, you know, the USFL numbers,

which you wouldn't, but Gary Clark, you know, I don't think Gary Clark is a Hall of Famer, but I do think, based on some of the receivers in the Hall of Fame, you can make the case that Gary Clark is worthy of consideration of the Hall of Fame. The tight end options were Jerry Smith, Jordan Reed, Chris Cooley. Chris Cooley's my friend. This is easy to me. It's Jerry Smith. You can only pick one? Yeah.

Well, yeah, it'd be Jerry Smith, but Coley would be second. Yeah, except you know who's missing from this list? Not because he was a pass-catching tight end necessarily, but Donnie Warren should have been one of the options. Yes, he should have. He's not in the ring of honor. Which is ridiculous. He's the only guy with all the Super Bowl rings, I think, of the major guys.

And he fights 17 years. And he was such an important part of the game. Gibbs running game. Right. I mean, it absolutely should be recognized. I think so. But, yeah, but Jerry Smith would be the number one, would be the choice. And then you pick five linemen from the list of Jacoby, Grimm, Lechay, Bostic, Pramuto,

Brandon, Sheriff, Turk Edwards, Lenhoss, Chris Samuels. I picked Bostic, Lechay, Jacoby, Grim, and Samuels. Bostic Lechay Jacoby Grimm, Samuels were my picks. Again, I think if Trent Williams were on this list, I think it's debatable when you talk about Williams or Samuels. This is another position. The Redskins have had some great tackles and great linemen. You know, obviously one of the most famous offensive lines.

They have on this list, they have obviously Russ Grimm, who's in the Hall of Fame. We all believe that Joe Jacoby should be. Lichet, you could argue, along with Trent Williams, are the two most talented offensive linemen in franchise history. And Samuels was, you know, steady, great for a long period of time. But Samuels is not a Hall of Famer, Tommy. No, he's not. No, he's not. But he was a great lineman.

Again, you know, part of this era of futility, it's hard to quantify greatness when the team stinks for 20th. years. This has been the struggle with putting some of these guys in the ring of honor. But I agree with your list 100%. That would be my list as well. The defensive linemen, there were only four options. You had to pick two. Manly, Butts, man and Gene Brito. Now, I think there's some guys missing in terms of options. I think, you know, you could have put Talbert, who, by the way, was a very good player, you know, not just, you know, a figure in franchise history because of his rivalry with Roger Stawback. He was a hell of a football player, Talbert was.

I think Darrell Grant could have been considered for this list. Look at Ron, McDole. I put Ron McDowell on there too. And Dave Butts. Well, Butts is. Butts, Manly, Man, and Brito are the options. Okay, okay. I picked, well, manly, you have to pick.

He's the greatest defensive pass-rushing linemen in franchise history. And I picked Butts, too. over man. I agree. I agree 100%. The linebacker options and you had to pick three were hamburger, Fletcher, Harvey, Carrigan, and Monty Coleman.

Now, I think missing from that list, you know, I think, you know, I don't, Ockowitz, it's not that he was a great player, but he was a really good player on winning teams. You know, Harold McClinton was a hell of a linebacker, Wilver Marshall, LaBar Arrington, were obviously super talented players. You know, Tommy, I don't know that we've ever had a conversation about Jack Pardee,

the player, but he was a really good linebacker. Yeah, but he was at the end of his career. Here he was, true. When he came here, when to a ram, he was a standout linebacker. Yeah, I mean, it's got to be hamburger and fletcher, I think, doesn't it? I picked, well, you picked three. I picked Hamburger, Fletcher, and I picked Monty Coleman just because of the all-around player that he was. You know, it's funny, I'm always reminded with Monty Coleman.

When I did my interviews for Hale Victory, the oral history of the Redskins, Monty Coleman, I think, played for the Redskins for like 17 years. And, you know, for a lot of that time, he wasn't a starter. No, he's a special team star. Right. and came in off the bench in certain situations. That's true. And he was probably the best athlete on the team

in almost every situation he played in. And he had resentment over the lack of recognition that he felt for a player because he wasn't a starter. No. He felt that his role diminished his status, and he had a lot of resentment over that. I've heard that, and I guess I've heard that from you, over the years. By the way, he played, yeah, 16 years, played until he was 37 years old,

and started very few games, actually, over the course of his career. In fact, 1987, which ended up being, you know, the replacement year and also a Super Bowl season for the Redskins, in the 12 games that they had for the non-scabs, he started in all 12. That's the only season he started. all of the games that they had that year. It was a 15-game season. Three of those games played by replacement players, right? It was three, I'm pretty sure. But he was such a great all-around player and a great substitute, you know,

back when they were really just starting substituting, you know, based on down and distance. And Coleman could blitz. He could cover anybody on the field. He had, you know, 4-5-40 speed. was a great closer, ranger, rangy player, a phenomenal special teams player. Think about it. He was a gunner on special teams as a linebacker.

He wasn't a DB, but he played, essentially, at times, you know, as a hybrid safety on a lot of plays. He was a spectacular Redskin, which is why I picked him over Carrigan and Harvey as my third guy. I agree with you. By the way, I just looked this up, you know, Jack Pardy, when he came here in 1971 from the Rams. He had five interceptions as a linebacker for George Allen in that first year, and was really, by the way, the coach on the field. He was the defensive play caller, and he was an extension of George Allen on the field.

And then lastly, the D.Bs, and he had to pick four of them. They were Daryl Green, Ken Houston, Sean Taylor, Pat Fisher, DeAngelo Hall, Mike Bass, Champ Bailey, and Brigg Owens, and then Landon Collins. Okay? The guy that I actually think they left off, Tommy, Joe Lavender. He was a top-flight NFL corner, you know, originally in Philadelphia, but here as well. He was a very good cornerback here. You know, you could make the case that they left Sammy Ball off that list.

That's a safety? Yes. Well, how about Richie Pettibone as a safety? Yeah. But what did you have at your pick? I went with three are easy. Okay, green, Houston, Taylor. And it might not be easy for you.

And then I picked Pat Fisher as my fourth. Okay, the first three I agree with, Camp Bailey was at my fourth. You agree with me on Sean Taylor. Yeah, yeah, I do. Joe Lavender was a two-time all-pro player in Washington. It's a really good cornerback. on those teams. That's a good point. Yeah. You know, they had, they had, wow, that secondary, the Redskins secondary in, you know, the late 70s, let me go back and look it up because you had Ken Houston

and you had Joe Lavender on the field, right? You had Jake Scott and Ken Houston together. Two Hall of Fame players. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Jake Scott's a Hall of Famer, right? Yes. So you had two Hall of Fame safeties. You had one of the best cornerbacks in the game in Lavender. And by the way, the other corner was also a guy that made Pro Bowls Lamar Parrish, who they traded for and came from Cincinnati. How about that as a secondary?

Parrish and Lavender, Houston and Jake Scott. Houston is in the Hall of Fame. Tommy. Jake Scott's actually not in the Hall of Fame. I just looked that up. He was a Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowl 7 against the Redskins when he played for the Dolphins. He made the Hall of Fame. Wait a minute.

Maybe he is in the Hall of Fame. My fault. Five-time Pro Bowl or two-time All-Pro, two-time Super Bowl champ. On his pro-football reference page, it does not say that he's a Hall of Famer. Yeah, he's not. Jake Scott's not a Hall of Famer. But those teams, I mean, hell, I mean, Lamar Parrish, you could put in there. have been an option. And, you know, they had on those 70s, mid-to-late-old-70s teams,

McClinton, Hanberger, and Brad Dusick, who was actually a good player with Coy Bacon, who they also traded for right from Cincinnati, as a pass rusher opposite Ron McDolle with butts and Talbert. Those teams, those last few George Allen teams that were really older teams, especially on defense, were good teams. You know, they, It just sort of would run out of gas at the end of the year. Yeah. Yep. Sort of like me right now.

Go. Feel better. I'll call you later. Okay, boss. I'll see you. Tommy, sucked it up today and called us from the hospital. And he'll get his gall stone and gallbladder stuff taken care of tomorrow,

and it'll be all fine. Coolie's going to join us on tomorrow's podcast. So we'll finish up the week with Cooley. All right, one of the things, and I think we may have skipped it the other day, Aaron, and that is like updating everybody on this Ultimate DC Sports Star Madness Bracket, which the radio station, the Team 980 has. And you can still vote. We're into the final four right now, and I'm going to tell you who the final four are in a moment,

but the voting is available at Team 980 on Twitter. But the Elite 8 at matchups, which we were intrigued by, And we both had Gibbs and Ovechkin advancing easily. And Ovechkin did beat Sonny Jurgensen with ease, took 81% of the vote. That's why I said I think he's already, even against Gibbs, I think he's going to be a factor. Well, here's why I think I'm going to disagree with you. Gibbs had 90% of the vote in beating Art Monk. Riggins knocked off Gary Williams in the elite eight.

He took 72% of the vote. and Daryl Green in the other Elite 8 matchup beat Max Scherzer taking 74% of the vote. So none of the four matchups were really close at all. That means the final four is Ovechkin matched up against Daryl Green and Gibbs matched up against Rigo. You can go vote at Team 980 on Twitter. It's real easy. It's right there. It's a pinned tweet at the top.

If you show the thread, you'll get both of the semi-final matchup. and you can vote on them right now, and you'll see where the voting is. I'm going to share it with you anyway. Right now, Ovechkin has the lead over Darrell Green, 57.6% to 42.4%. And then in the other matchup, Gibbs against Rigo, which by the way would have been a hell of a final two, one-sided. Gibbs 87.4% of the vote, and Riggins right now getting 12.5%. point six percent of the vote. So go vote. There are 19 hours left in the voting, but man, Riggins is going to have to make up a hell of a lot of ground. Daryl Green's still in it, you know, because we're really only probably half of the way there, maybe not even half of the way there on

the voting. You know, what's interesting about this final four is this is a legitimate all-time Mount Rushmore DC sports figure Final Four if you're excluding owners and just going players, coaches, team executives. Who's going to argue with Ovechkin, Darrell Green, Joe Gibbs, and John Riggins? I mean, you could, if you wanted to say that there were better players than John Riggins,

it's just that he's the most popular, you could have certainly argue that, but no one's going to have a problem with it either. Yeah, I mean, I'm not even sure that you can really argue successfully or without any sort of question that there's a better player

than Rigg O'Rig. Rigo is a Hall of Famer because of his... Now, I understand. He didn't have as many Pro Bowls or all pros, all that. Rigo was a phenomenal back. No, there's no doubt about it. And one of the great clutch performers, obviously, in franchise history.

You know, if Sunny were on that Mount Rushmore, if Daryl Green were on that, well, we've already mentioned Green. If Sunny were on that Mount Rushmore, if Art Monk were on that Mount Rushmore, if Walter Johnson or Sammy Baugh, those would be really the two legitimate arguments because if you rank, you know, in that, remember when ESPN did the sports century thing at the end of the 20th century?

It was a great series where they had the top 100 athletes for the 100 years. The only two DC area athletes on there are Walter Johnson and Sammy Ball. So, you know, you could argue that they should be the first two on the list. But those are players, didn't involve, you know, didn't include coaches. It's going to be a Gibbs OV final, which is what we predicted. And I think Gibbs right now, you know, really in a one-sided beatdown of Rigo in a semi-final matchup, sort of gives you a clue as to what the final is going to be. It will likely be Gibbs.

But if you tell me the hockey fans come out in force and just some of the more modern, younger fans, I could maybe see it. But no, most likely you're right. It's Gibbs. Yeah. But a hell of a tournament, if you will, and a really interesting, you know, look at what, you know, look at what, you know, people think. And, you know, some of you will say, well, you know, Kevin, your radio station and even your podcast, a lot of Redskins before anything else. Well, look,

everybody that talks sports in this town pretty much understands over a long period of time that the number one story, regardless of how dysfunctional the franchise has been, it's the Redskins. That's where the majority of people, you know, prefer engaging in discussion about. Now, the Nats have gained significant ground. The caps have gained significant ground, and the Redskins have lost a lot of ground. But still, you know, over the years, it's been, you know, if you, if you read, if you listen, if you watch, you know, it is pretty much Redskins first in every sort of media outlet in this town for a long period of time. So it doesn't surprise me that you end up with three Redskins, and it certainly doesn't surprise me that Alex Ovechkin, arguably the greatest player, you know, on this

list if Walter Johnson and Sammy Ball weren't, is, you know, headed towards the championship matchup as well. I wanted to mention real quickly that I had Wade Phillips on the radio show yesterday. It's actually really interesting because he's promoting a book. It's a book about his father and the lessons he learned from his father, Bum Phillips, you know, one of the all-time characters and really good coaches. in NFL history. He coached those Houston Euler teams of the 70s with Earl Campbell. And by the way, Wade Phillips was on that staff, you know, as a young coach.

But one of the things I pointed out to, you know, before and after the interview with Wade Phillips yesterday, is that I think most football fans, most of us, most of you listening, would, you know, say about Wade Phillips one hell of a defensive coordinator, right? Isn't that the first thing you think of, if I say Wade Phillips? Yeah. He's been a hell of a defensive coordinator over the years. You know, not much of a head coach, but a great defensive coordinator. You know, you look at his head coaching record.

It is actually very impressive. Wade Phillips basically has been hired as a head coach three times. He's had several interim coaching stints with coaches that were fired mid-season or late season. if you take the three jobs that he was hired for, in Denver in 1993, in Buffalo in 1998, and in Dallas, the one more recently that most of us remember, in 2007, he coached a total of nine seasons, has a 79 and 57 regular season record as a head coach, and in nine seasons, went to the playoffs five times. that's a pretty damn good coaching resume, head coaching resume. You know, a 580 win percentage, five playoff seasons in nine head coaching seasons.

By the way, his worst season as a head coach before his final season in Dallas where he started one and seven and got fired. If you took the other eight that preceded it, his worst year was seven and nine. He went nine and seven in Denver in his first year, seven and nine in his second year. The three seasons in Buffalo went 10 and 6, 11 and 5, 8 and 8, and then the seasons in Dallas went 13 and 3, 9 and 7, 11 and 5, and then 2010 became a disaster. Went 1 and 7 injuries all over the place and he got fired that particular year. I mean, just saying, as OJ would say on his Twitter account, I'm just saying that Wade Phillips, as a head coach, has a hell of a resume, head coach. I didn't realize that until he was scheduled to be on the show and I sort of looked it up because I was sitting there ready to talk to him about all the defensive coordinator jobs he

did. He was the defensive coordinator for the Broncos recently coaching Von Miller in the Super Bowl. You know, he was the defensive coordinator in Los Angeles the last couple of years, the defensive coordinator for the Rams team that lost to the Patriots in the Super Bowl. We know this story of Wade Phillips being interviewed for the job in why. Washington by Jay Gruden and company before Jay and company decided on Joe Barry. And I asked him about that and he said, yeah, I don't really want to go back to that, but I guess I didn't interview very well. And I said, well, come on.

Of course you interviewed well. And he said, well, they just, you know, Jay decided to go in a different direction. He was looking for something else. And he did say, you know, maybe he didn't, he said, maybe I didn't do a good job interviewing because I sort of assumed that he knew about my career as a. a defensive coordinator. And he didn't seem to know much about me. And I should have done a better job selling myself. I'm paraphrasing. And he said, you know, Jay went through a bunch of the games where he matched up against me as a defensive coordinator when he was in Houston in a couple of games,

where his offense did well against Houston, but he left out the playoff games in which he, he, Wade Phillips, totally, you know, shut down Cincinnati offensively, and he found that to be curious. Anyway, let me get to why I brought Wade Phillips up. I asked him about the defensive players in the upcoming draft. By the way, he was fired in Los Angeles. He's not currently employed by anybody. He worked for Sean McVeigh for the three seasons as the defensive coordinator. His son, Wes, is an assistant defensive coach there as well. He wants to coach again as a defensive coordinator. But anyway, I asked him about, you know, are you keeping an eye on the draft and the players at the top of the draft that the Redskins may be considering Chase Young, you know, Isaiah Simmons? And he said, you know, I love them both.

And he said, but you take the pass rusher. He said, I had Von Miller. He said, he goes, I had J.J. Watt. He said, when you have that kind of pass rusher, that's the player that impacts the game the most. I'd take the pass rusher, and I said, and do you think Chey Chung's that kind of guy? And he said, oh, I do. He said, I do. Chase Young was the way in the direction he would go there at the top of the draft.

It was just an interesting conversation with Wade Phillips, which I actually really enjoyed. I didn't, to be honest with, he was one of those things where I wasn't sure whether, and by the way, he's very soft-spoken and not very talkative, but, you know, we ended up spending 15 minutes and I think some of the stuff about, you know, his father and some of those teams loosened him up a little bit. Three things to touch on real quickly before we leave you for the day. Darius Geis is getting sued for $500,000, according to Michael Phillips. I think he was the first to break this Richmond Times dispatch. Geis signed originally with the agency Top Dog Entertainment.

They represent a bunch of music acts, including Kendrick Lamar. This is who he employed initially to be his agent. The actual agent's name is Fad McIll, who I think, I could be wrong about this, was Sue Cravens' agent, just as an aside. He is being sued by Top Dog Entertainment for $500,000. By the way, right before the draft, before he was drafted in 2019, or the 2018 draft, it would have been, right? It would have been the 2018 draft.

Geis left that agency and signed with Young Money, which is the agency founded by Lil Wayne. Here's essentially what he's getting sued over. The lawsuit alleges that Geist took out a $191,000 loan during the pre-draft process and didn't pay it back. By the way, and I know this to be true, players that have finished their college eligibility sign with agents, very often take out loans that the agents are able to secure and facilitate

so that they have cash between the moment their eligibility is up in college and the NFL draft. Now, some of these agents aren't going to loan players too much. It's going to be based on what they project the earnings to be, based on where they're going to be drafted in particular. But Geis took out a loan for $191,000 during the pre-draft process, according to this lawsuit, and has not paid any of it back. The rest of the money that he's being sued for is from endorsement deals that Geiss entered into

the agency, his original agency, is claiming that he owes them 15% on some of those deals. And Michael Phillips writes in his story about this, that the lawsuit provides a fascinating window into the alternative revenue streams of a professional athlete. Geis's deal with Nike was for four years, a deal he signed with Nike before he ever took one NFL snap prior to him even being drafted with a $100,000 signing bonus and base payments annually of $40,000 a year. So it was basically a $260,000 deal with Nike, $100,000 up front, and then another $40,000 a year for four years. According to the lawsuit also, Geis was paid $35,000 from Hyundai for endorsements and had a deal with Panini trading cards for a minimum of 17,000 autographs

at $12.50 per autograph. That's pretty good money. That's not a bad gig. You know, when you're talking about somewhere in the neighborhood of about $200,000 for autographs. Geis also had a deal that could have paid him as much as $600,000 for him to appear at various autograph signings, and he was offered $1,000 per game-used jersey that he sold. So basically, it all adds up to about $500,000, and they want the $191,000 in loans back and 15% of the rest of it, which I guess, you know, do the math adds up to 500 grand. I had John Kime on the show this morning,

and I asked John Kime a simple question, and I said, why have the Redskins signed two running backs? And Kimes's answer was, well, you know, they've got a 35-year-old and Adrian Peterson on the roster, and they've got two guys that haven't been healthy, which is, you know, the right answer. It's the first part of the answer. You know, Darius Geis has missed many more games

than he's been available for, and Bryce hasn't played, one NFL snap yet. You know, he had that ACL tear in college, and then he had a fix, apparently a very easy fix last fall. But the Redskins have added two running backs, J.D. McKissick and Peyton Barber. Now, McKissick's much more of a third downback, pass catching back. But, you know, obviously, you know, Peterson, Geis loved Barbara McKissick, probably not going to keep five backs. They might. They could. But there's another part to this answer that I believe that John Kime agreed with me on.

And I think what we've seen with Ron Rivera is a focus on the culture and a focus on bringing in or keeping mature players, grownups. And I don't know about Bryce Love, but I think there are some questions about Darius Geis's maturity. I think that's one of those things that perhaps was a reason why he dropped to late second round. round. Remember, some people had him going in the first round of that draft. The Redskins' first choice in terms of running backs in the 2018 NFL draft was Carryon Johnson. The Redskins wanted to take Carryon Johnson in the second round of that draft early in the second round. And Carryon Johnson went to Detroit at 43 overall, and the Redskins were supposed to have the next pick, which they ultimately traded out of, and they ended up taking Darius Geis at 59. But

Adam Schaefter reported at the time that Caryon, the Detroit traded in front of the Redskins to get Carri-on-Johnson because the Redskins were going to take Carri-on-Johnson. And he was my favorite back, one of my favorite backs in that draft after the obvious guy, Sequan Berkeley, you know, in that draft went number two overall. I liked Carri-on-Johnson more than almost anybody but Barkley and I think I really like Sony Michelle a lot. I like Chub a lot too in that draft. But I liked them more than Penny. I liked them more than Ronald Jones. I liked them more than Geis. I liked them more than who were some of the other backs in that draft. Was Royce Freeman in that draft? The guy from NC State was in that draft. A guy Heinz that plays for the Colts. I loved Carriand Johnson.

Now, he's been hurt. You know, he's been another guy that hasn't been able to, remain healthy and because of it he hasn't played nearly enough games. He played seven games last year, I think, you know, 10 in his rookie year. He's also, when he has played, average, you know, four and a half yards per carry and he's been a legit receiving threat as well. He can play, but he's got to stay on the field. We know that. But I think that's another reason on this Geist thing. I think it's one of the other reasons you have to be, it's one of the other the reasons that they picked up the option on Peterson and they've signed Barber and McKissick. You know, it's not completely out of the realm that the Redskins could look potentially to move

on from either Geis or Love. And by the way, I don't know if maturity is the concern with love at all. In fact, I would guess that it's not. Two other things real quickly before we run for the day. So I was talking to you guys the other day and Aaron about just how we are always off on trade value. You know, it's one of the things we get wrong consistently as sports fans where we try to project trade value. You know, we're usually saying, oh, my God, that's all that guy went for, or, oh, my God, they got way too much. And CBSports.com put out yesterday a list of the seven trades that they think need to happen between now and, you know, the end of the draft. And one of those trades was Trent Williams to Tampa Bay for Donovan Smith,

their starting left tackle that they signed an extension to, and a second round pick. And I read this and I'm like, wait a minute. If Tampa traded or offered Donovan Smith in a second round pick, the Redskins would take that deal unless they were concerned about the Smith contract extension, which was like a three-year $40 million extension, for a mediocre starting left. So that might be, maybe they'd say, no, we don't want Donovan Smith. We'll take the second round.

So it might be, yeah, it might be that Donovan Smith is, you know, it makes it. A negative in the trade. Exactly. I guess it could be, although Donovan Smith started a lot of games for that. Oh, he started, but it's because they don't have much depth. Donovan Smith is probably, as far as left tackles go, the 30th best left tackle in the league, somewhere around there. So the other trade that was there that was on the, the list of the seven trades that need to happen. This was a CBS Sports.com thing that I thought was

interesting, did not involve the Redskins. And the trade goes like this. The Jags trade and Gokwe, their pass rusher supreme, to the giants. And I'll give you the trade particulars in a moment, but I'm going to mention one thing real quickly. It's a bit self-serving. I will concede that point. Not as self-serving is saying that, you know, that I'm number one on Facebook. in the midst of a crisis. But I told Cooley when Ingaukway was playing for Maryland, and it was probably his sophomore year, I said, you got to watch number seven for Maryland as a defensive player.

He's going to be a really good NFL pass rusher. Cooley went back, Aaron, swear to God, and Cooley will back this story up. He went back and watched, you know, the tape, and he said he literally walked out of watching the tape and walked right into, you know, the office of Bruce Allen and whomever else who was involved in the draft at the time and said, you guys have to take this guy from Maryland. He's going to be a really big-time pass rusher. And where was he taken?

He was taken in the second round. Yeah. No, third round. I think he was the third round pick. I think he was the third-round pick in that 2016 draft. would have been the 2016 draft? Was he third round or second round? You might be right.

You may have been second round pick. No, you're right. It was the very beginning of the third round. Beginning of the third round? Okay, so Ngokwey was picked in the beginning of the third round. Who did the Redskins take in that draft prior to him? Like, who was their late second round pick or mid-second round pick? If that was the 2016...

So of Cravens. Yeah, so that's the Doxon Cravens draft before. Yeah, you think they could have done better? So Cooley must have told Scott McLuhan, too, who was involved in that draft. Anyway, let me get back to what this trade was proposed. The trade basically was Jacksonville trades in Gokwey to the Giants. For the Giants number, Jacksonville trades in Gokwey and number nine overall, their first round pick, which is ninth overall, to the Giants for a 2020 first round pick, which is the fourth

overall for the Giants, and two second round picks. This year's 36 overall, and next year's 2021. giant second round pick. And I'm like, you know what? I mean, that seems like a deal that for the giants, I don't know, might make sense if they're looking for a legit edge pass rusher. Okay, and Gakwe's one of the best. He is one of the best pass rushers out there. You know, and he's young, too. How old's in Gakwe now? He can't be older than 26, 27. It's probably younger than that. Because didn't he come out a year early after his junior year? He just turned 25.

So even better. And he's had in his four seasons, I'm going to guess he's had 40 plus sacks. He's probably averaged close to 10 sacks a year. I should pull that number up here. He has, this is his fourth season. So, yeah, it's 37 and a half sacks in four seasons. Okay, so 37 and a half, here it is. You're right. So just over nine sacks per season. Pretty damn good. On a very good defense, too, with other really good players. But I was thinking, you know, that's a trade that, you know, let's put the Redskins into that conversation. If a trade like this made sense, Engaqwe and number nine overall, for number four overall and two second rounders, what about Engakwe, what would, what would,

the Redskins get for Ingaquay? First of all, Ingakway for Trent Williams straight up, I make that deal. That's for starters, but the Jags would not. To give away number two to get the pass rusher and then number nine overall, how much more to move up two additional spots would you need to get? well, you'd need to get probably a future, you have to get this year's number two and a future number one, right? Because it's seven spots, not five spots. You're getting your pass rusher.

You're getting a top 10 pick, but you've got to get next year's number one and this year's number two minimum. And would you consider it then? You know, maybe you get this year's number three, too. You know, maybe the Redskins get number nine overall. They get Ingakway, they get number nine overall. get the Jacksonville second round pick, which is 36th overall, and they get Jacksonville's third round pick, which I haven't looked up when that is. But I'm going to do that right now. And a future number one, would you make that deal? Those are the kind of deals where you start

to get me to think about it in terms of passing on Chase Young. I don't know that I would, but Ngakwe's proven right now. He's ready to go as an outside linebacker and a four-three. where is Jacksonville's third? They've got number 73 overall. So they got a relatively early third round pick. I think in Gokwe, number nine overall, second round pick 36 overall, third round pick 73 overall, and next year's number one for number two overall would be a haul. Because you're getting a proven player, you're going to be able to get at number nine, you know, a really good player.

You get your second round pick. Probably you're able to fill, by the way, a corner need, a tight end end or wide receiver need, and you end up being able to fill a bunch of needs in the first, second, and third rounds, and you've got a pass rusher and Ingaque. Now, I'm not putting Ingaquay into the Chase Young potential category, but you're looking at it like it's too much.

I think that might be too much. I feel like Angokwe 9 and a second. I don't know if the Jaguars make that offer. Well, you've got to get more than what they're giving to go up to get the Giants number four overall. Well, sure. Yeah. So number nine in one second rounder wouldn't be good. I feel like they might have.

No, I don't just mean, I just mean it might be nine and Angokwe. That would be, I don't know if that would be quite right. but I feel like you start piling this up. And basically what I'm saying, I think ESPN or whoever had that initial list might have that wrong. Like that would not be the trade. Or CBS Sports. I bet you Ngoqua gets traded.

Oh, I do too. I do too. All right. Last thing I wanted to get to is Maryland basketball real quickly because they added a transfer yesterday. This guy, Jurys Hamilton. He's a 6-8, 230-pound power forward, who apparently is a really good defender at a BC.

Now, he is not one of those grad transfers. that's eligible immediately unless the NCAA rule on transfers changes, which a lot of people are expecting it to change, where they'll be allowed to transfer once and not sit out a year. Obviously, if they get him and he's eligible next year, that is more than a comparable replacement for losing Ricky Lindo. It's not the replacement for losing Jalen Smith, just so everybody understands.

they're also in the running for many transfers. And this is going to be one of those years where Turgeon's going to have to really be active in the transfer market. And the grad transfer market in particular, where you don't have to sit out, you know, they don't even have to wait for the rule change. But you're going to have to get, you know, this guy Bryce Aiken from Harvard. You know, there are a bunch of guys that they are in the running for.

he's going to have to land a couple of these guys. And if he does, all of a sudden, Maryland might go from sort of a borderline tournament projected team next year back into like the top 20. That could happen pretty quickly if he gets some of these guys to commit. As much as, I mean, Bryce Aiken would be great. He's certainly the top transfer right now. I think Seton Hall is a slight favorite there over Maryland. Tell me, give me, you follow this stuff much more than I do in terms of where these guys rank.

Maryland's on the final three, final four list for several guys. Yeah, Bryce Aiken, they're on the final four with Seton Hall, who's considered the favorite right now in Michigan and Iowa State. Aiken would come in right away and basically be Anthony Cowan, scoring point guard. Yeah. I think the big one is Jordan Bruner from Yale. He's a big man, and he's down to Baylor, Maryland, and Alabama. Apparently Alabama's the leader right now. Well, that's ridiculous.

Okay. Let me just say this. Mark, my friend, Turgeon, you can't let Alabama a football school beat you out for a guy like this. You've got to go get this guy. Okay, this is, you know, if this guy is a difference maker next year is a grad transfer from Yale, right? This is the kid from Yale? Yeah, this is the Yale 6-8 big man. You cannot let Alabama beat you out for that. You're Maryland.

Alabama is a football school. They are third tier, fourth tier, basketball. All right. Baylor obviously has some basketball tradition here, and they've been very good at times, including this past year, where they may have made a run to the final four. Where's this kid from?

It's a good question. I'm not sure exactly where he's from. I know he has a relationship with NATO, which is why Alabama is in the picture. He's from South Carolina. You can't lose this kid to Alabama. You're Maryland. It's not Duke or Carolina, Kentucky, or Kansas walking into his door, but it's the next level down. All right.

I'll text him and tell him he's got to get this done. All right. Make sure this gets it. And then there's Alex O'Connell from Duke. Yeah, I did read that. You know, and O'Connell's that left-handed shooter, right? Yes. He can really shoot it.

Did he not have a big year this year, or is it just too crowded? I think it's a combination of both. Yeah, because that guy can play a little bit. I wouldn't mind getting him at all. Big, you know, right now with everything that's going on, and you've got to get commitments from these guys without being able to meet these guys face-to-face. Tough time, you know, in recruiting. But it's a big off-season.

By the way, you know what Naki told me on the radio show yesterday? He just said, you know, with all that's going on and Jalen Smith not having a chance to participate in these NBA drafts, draft camps, that maybe, just maybe. Because I was looking at some of the mocks. I've seen him as high as 17th. I've also seen him in the second round still in some of these mock drafts. I think that, yeah, it's slightly more likely now, but it goes from a 2% chance of him coming back to a 4%. percent chance of this coming back. I don't see that happened. Well, you just doubled the chances. There you go. You're telling me there's a chance. I mean, NBA draft net, this was the one I looked

at yesterday, had him as the 40th pick. Like, he's mid-second round. I think not having a tournament, the tournament, you know, it hurts him a little bit. I don't know. If you watch Jaylin Smith this year, you watched how much he improved. If he's not a top 20 pick, if he's not a first rounder, I'd be shocked. First rounders guaranteed money. Second rounders not. You know, he hasn't committed yet. You know, a lot of guys are starting to commit. We've not heard Jalen Smith commit yet. All right, that's it for the day.

Back tomorrow with Cooley.