The Kevin Sheehan Show - Game 6 & NFL Trade Deadline

Episode Date: October 29, 2019

Kevin and Aaron opened with a preview of Nats-Astros Game 6. Ben Standig/The Athletic jumped on to talk Redskins and trade deadline. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I am here. Aaron is here. Tommy did yesterday because he's traveling right now to Houston for game six tonight. Ben Standing from The Athletic is going to join us here shortly because we are going to spend some time this morning on the NFL trade deadline and all of the stories that came out yesterday, all of the reports on Redskins and some of the, their players. The big news yesterday's that you had it from Ian Rappaport and then again from Tom Pelliserro from the NFL network that the Redskins are now interested in trading Trent Williams. So we're going to get to all of that with Ben in about 20 minutes. I want to start though with really what is one of the bigger games in D.C. sports history. I mean, I don't want to, you know, go too nuts here, but it's a World Series elimination game. Game. Game.

You know, it is October, late October, our team is in the World Series. They're down three games to two and they're playing in a game six in the World Fing series. That's a pretty big deal. You know, we've had, you know, NFC championship games in Super Bowls and a Stanley Cup and an NBA finals many years ago. This is about as big as it gets. Now, I know, and I've been looking at television ratings and they're not what I thought they would be. I thought they were going to be much better for these playoff games. At this point, just so everybody knows, not one of the Nats World Series games has even done a number that's comparable with what the Caps did in their Game 5 elimination game against Las Vegas.

The best number the Nats have done is a 24-something and the game against Vegas in 2017 in the Stanley Cup, close-out game did a 25-something. I thought we were going to be into the 30s at this point, and maybe we will get that tonight. But game 5 did a 19 locally. That's not good. That's not good at all. And you know why it did a 19, because there was football on. Packers' Chiefs, it was a really good Sunday night game.

I mean, sorry, you know, people that want the Nats to be the number one product in town. The NFL reigns supreme in most serious. cities. I guarantee you, and I haven't seen the local number for Packers' Chiefs on Sunday night, but I guarantee you that the game did a 19, the lowest rated game of the World Series so far for the Nats, because a lot of people were watching football. What other reason would there be? The Redskins, a week earlier against the 49ers, did a near-18 rating against the Niners, all right, as a one-win team. You know, I thought the Nats were going to kill it in this World Series.

I thought you were really going to see the example that the Nats were really starting to push, you know, that number one spot or certainly, you know, put space between them and the caps for number two. Hasn't happened. Maybe it'll happen tonight, and maybe if there's a game seven, it'll definitely happen. But anyway, very, very surprised. at the low local ratings for game five. 19's a good number, don't get me wrong. But why would it go down when you did 23 and 24 numbers in earlier games?

In a 2-2-pivotal Game 5 of the World Series on a Sunday night, which, by the way, is the biggest television night of the week. Okay, enough on that. I'm excited about tonight. Very excited. You know, we've had a month full of memories here that started on the first day of the month, October 1st. in a wildcard game.

And that eighth inning, you know, that's an all-time postseason memory for the nationals. Soto's hit, the error in right field, and all of a sudden it goes from three to one to four to three. All right? You had an epic game five against a Blue Blood in the Dodgers in Dodger Stadium. And you had back-to-back homers by Rendon and Soto to tie it, and then the Kendrick Grand Slam in the 10th to win it. an epic memory. You swept the Cardinals in the National League Championship Series. They're a big brand in baseball. You went in with two unbelievable pitching performances. Sanchez nearly threw a no-hitter and Scherzer almost backed it up with another no-hitter. Incredible memories to win the first

National League championship series pennant, or the first league pennant because they used to be in the American league many years ago since 1933. Then it was on to the World Series, which, by the way, for a lot of people, you're like, this is all icing on the cake no matter what happens. They're a big underdog, you know, but then they won the first two games. And expectations changed because there was certainly an expectation that they would come home with a two-nothing lead and not get swept and have a legitimate shot to win the World Series at home over the weekend.

They picked a bad time to go into an offensive scoring slump. Three total runs and three games nowhere near good enough, not against a team like Houston. And now they're on the brink of elimination. It's been a great run. It's been a fun month, but it would be even better if they could force the ultimate in sports, which is a game seven for a world championship. Yeah, tonight is one of the bigger games in the game. the history of sports in this city. That's not an exaggeration. No matter how many people consume it

via television or get on a plane and go to Houston to watch it, it is on the face of it, one of the biggest sports games in the history of this city, period. Game six of the Effing World Series. Are you kidding me? And you get tonight, you get your best pitcher taking center stage. the man who owns the second greatest ERA in playoff history for men who have started at least five postseason games. Think about that for a moment. Steven Strasbourg's 1.43 playoff ERA is second only to Sandy Kofax. And Strasbourg's got a chance tonight, Aaron, to add to his own growing postseason legacy by extending this incredible month, one more night.

A great performance by Strauss tonight gives the Nats another game more likely than not. I'm expecting it, and I'm expecting it because I just view this game in a very sort of simplistic way. To me, I trust Strasbourg a lot more than I trust Verlander. Big game, though, tonight. Really important game tonight. It's not hyperbolic to say. potentially changes the future of the team, future of the city in sports. Like if they go out, they win this one and somehow they pull out game seven, whether it

sure's on the mound or somebody else on the mound, it changes the fortress of the team. You know, we're already seeing during the off day, we saw kind of what we expected to come out in postseason. The is Strasbourg going to opt out? Was that Rendon's last at bad at Nationals Park on Sunday? We're starting to see these articles that we expected to see. four weeks ago that, you know, the nationals kept postponing. If they win the next two games, everything changes when it comes to that.

And yes, I'm with you. I'm not going to say I'm confident. There's no way to be confident in this series. There's a reason that the Astros are so heavily favored in this game. I believe there are minus 175 right now. 180. 180. Yeah, 180 right now.

So I'm not confident. But yes, this is the situation they want. They want Strasbourg on the mound right now. They want the possibility of getting Scherzer in Game 7. They'd rather ensure Scherzer was in game seven, but just the possibility of lining up Strasbourg and Scherzer. This is what they want. They just got to execute now. Back to what you started your answer with.

It's very interesting because I got a tweet during the radio show this morning, and I read it and I answered it. Because you're speaking to the importance, the future importance of what tonight means, like to the Nats future. And somebody tweeted me, his name was Seth. and I'm going to paraphrase it here, but he said, essentially, after losing three games at home and potentially bowing out and four straight tonight, what does that do to the excitement that we've felt here for a month? Personally, I don't think it affects it at all. From my standpoint, you've had a month full of memories that you'll never, ever forget Soto in, you know, the eighth inning of the wild card game, Kendrick in Los Angeles, Sanchez and Scherzer and

St. Louis, hell, Suzuki in game two of the World Series, you know, and maybe you got one more tonight, maybe you don't. But I think the excitement over this month for the Nationals isn't going to be tarnished by losing the World Series in four straight. I don't think it will be. I would be very surprised if people are like, ah, same old DC sports. You know, they choked, they lost. I invested all this time and they're not any good. I think what we've seen is we've seen what big sports cities have experienced many times, and that is baseball in October for a full month, not just for a best of five NLDS and it's over, but for a full month and the excitement that that brings. I don't think that gets taken away by a loss here. I don't want them to lose. And yes, it would add even more

because we know this is a bandwagon front-running town. And if they won the World Series, it would be even better. But I don't think they lose a lot if they go down tonight. I don't. I think you hit it on the head with that last statement, though. This is a bandwagon town. And I think those ratings, you know, you kind of reflect it. Yes, football had a big thing to do.

But if that was a potential clincher game, I think those ratings are very different for game five than it was. if they, you know, lose two games in a very mediocre fashion where they weren't really threatening at all. That's why the ticket prices also dropped for Sunday, in addition to football and the weather and everything else. So I agree with you, especially once we get to January, once we kind of are able to get our emotions besides, we look back and we realize, oh, my God, this was so special.

You know, the Nats got to the World Series. It's amazing. But in the immediate aftermath, I do think there will be, oh, my God, there's going to be a big group of people who say, oh my God, this was DC sports. They choked again. Lucy pulled out the football, however you want to describe it. I wouldn't view it that way. No. I would view it as they got beat by a better team who was really good, was all-time good. And here's the thing. If they had just done it where they had taken, you know, they had split in Houston, they had won one game in DC, they had one game five. But the way it happened,

that there's going to be a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths. And that sometimes is impact. and has lasting effect. By the way, when I say that I don't think it'll tarnish it, I also don't know what winning will do. I don't know how winning the World Series here actually manifests itself either, only that I know that next postseason, if they're in it, people will be really jacked up. I don't know if it means better ratings during the regular season on television

or increased attendance. I don't know how winning the World Series, or even this run so far will manifest itself in terms of future interest level. But I do know this because we saw this with the caps this past spring. The amount of juice that D.C. had for the beginning of the postseason last spring off of Stanley Cup the year before was the highest I can ever remember. So if the Nats were to win it, and I don't think it changes if they lose it. I think the interest level, if they are to make it back to the postseason next year,

in the beginning of the postseason, is going to be off the charts. Remember, we have seen playoff games at Nats Park in the past where it wasn't a complete full house. Like that first game against the Cardinals, I know it was like a 12 o'clock start or whatever. And then you had the next year or two years later against the giant. the 18 inning game with basically a third of the crowd left when it got cold and the game got long. I think you'll have a different feel and a different interest level in the postseason. But anyway, I am very, very surprised. I've not seen, by the way, I still am looking for. And by the way, I'm a little bit skeptical as to why we haven't seen a rating for the Redskins

Vikings game on Thursday. Have you seen it? I have not seen it. I haven't seen it at all. looking up, you know, if you're looking for Steinberg or Scott Allen or Ben Strauss, I don't think that they've put it out there. They may have, and I may have just missed it. But I am, they were, they've been very quick to get out the very bad ratings and not so quick to get out ratings that have been very good. The number against the Niners to me was all about the weather that day. No one was going out. Why not watch football? And there wasn't a game on CBS. simultaneously in the 1 o'clock window. But anyway, I'm interested in.

Yeah, I'm seeing overall ratings, but I haven't been able to track down a DC rating. I didn't see a local number for that. You know, it wouldn't surprise me if the Redskins Vikings game Thursday night locally did a pretty good number. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Anyway, enough about television ratings.

Let's talk about the game tonight. I trust Strasbourg more than Verlander. I also am very interested to see how the Nats play this. I had Ray Knight on the show earlier, Aaron, and I said, I asked him, I said, you know, after three poor offensive performances, do you change up your lineup? Do you panic is sort of the way I put it, you know, or do you stick with, you know, what you would have probably done in the regular season? You have three game stretches of not a lot of offense, and then all of a sudden you break out for five games of big time offense. And he said he would make significant changes. He said the change that he would make is he would insert Matt Adams in his left-handed bat into the lineup and bat bat three left-handers in a row.

Soto in the cleanup spot, Adams 5th, Cabrera 6th, and then bat Zimmerman, who he would still start at first base, and he would have Kendrick available as a pinch-hit bat late. I was surprised at that. And he said, look, it's not so much about panicking over the lack of offense over the weekend. It's about putting three left-handers in a row against a team that doesn't even have a left-hander in its bullpen and to shake things up. And he likes Matt Adams. He also wishes Matt Adams had more at bats in the postseason, and he would make that move. But he said that he would not be surprised if there is.

a lineup, you know, shakeup tonight. I think I would be surprised. And I'm hopeful that Suzuki's ready to go because he's the normal guy for Strasbourg in terms of catching Strasbourg. That would be the only one. If Suzuki's hurt, you might get gomes. But other than that, I expect the same lineup that we saw in game two against Verlander, Turner Eaton, Soto, Kendrick Zimmerman-Cabrera, Suzuki. What about you? Yeah, I'm exactly the same thing. I don't expect. Matt Adams to be in the lineup. I expect to see the same things we've seen in games one and two, basically. Ray Knight, who, by the way, is a phenomenal radio guest and a really good analyst. He thinks that that's a possibility. The other thing to keep in mind is the Houston lineup.

They get Alvarez back in there as a designated hitter at home. This guy's been a guy that the Nats have not been able to get out yet. I mean, Alvarez is killing it in this series. and you've got to wonder, you know, how you, you know, he will hit in that same spot that he's been hitting, which I think is like the sixth spot, you know, behind Guriel. So they go Springer, Altuve, Brantley, Bregman, Guriel. And then I think it's Alvarez there as the DH before you get Correa. And by the way, with Verlander pitching tonight, it'll probably be Chirinos as the catcher, the guy that's already got two home runs in the series.

Alvarez has been the guy, man. I mean, that guy has been monster big in this series. He went three for three the other day, had the two run homer that got him jump started. For the series now, he was two for three in the opener against the Nats, one for three, and then three for three. So he is six for nine in the starting lineup. He pinch hit in games three and four and went 0 for one in each one of those games. He's got two RBIs in the series, two walks as well in this series.

He's been impossible for the Nats to get out. That's a big benefit to them to have Alvarez in there without having to play him in left field, which I guess based on what I read, they were holding their breath over. In terms of the bullpen, everybody's available tonight for Houston for the Nats. I would think that everybody's available, but clearly the wild card here is Scher and tomorrow night, Aaron. If Scher's not available tomorrow night, and they know that, then that doesn't make Sanchez and or Corbyn, you know, one of the two won't be available tonight, right? Because you'd have to hold them back in the event that Scher can't go in game seven. Most likely Sanchez.

Yeah, most likely Sanchez. So you would have Corbyn, you'd have two lefties potentially there out of the bullpen. Sanchez would be on full rest if he pitches Wednesday night, tomorrow night. Right, Friday night? Yes, that would be a full rest situation. So anyway, I can't wait for tonight. Cannot wait. You know, every pitch is going to be pressure-packed.

It's an elimination game. By the way, this umpire auditor Twitter account, are you familiar with this person? Yes. So umpire auditor, this Twitter account basically audits umpires and basically comes up with, you know, what they got right and what they got wrong. You know, I don't know if this person's taken seriously and whether or not they do a good job or a bad job, but everybody seems to be referencing umpire auditor here over the last couple of days. Well, we all know that, you know, the game five, there were some really, really bad ball strike calls by Lance Barksdale,

the home plate umpire umpire auditor says that he had a 93 and a half percent correct call rate and that there were nine missed calls five of which helped the astros benefited the astros and four of which benefited the nationals it's pretty close now clearly the calls that benefited the astros led to some big opportunities like korea's two-run homer after he should have been called out on an two pitch early in the fourth inning. And then the Robles at bat, which everybody, you know, dialed in on, that was clearly ball four, would have put two runners on in a four one game, brought Goams to the plate with two outs, though. Now, I know that the Nats have done a lot of damage with two outs, you know, stay in the fight, you know, the resilience. Still, you know,

you're down four one, and yeah, you're bringing the tying runner to the plate. But there are two outs in that spot. And it's Goams. You know, it's not Soto. It's not Rendon in that particular spot. It's not Kendrick in a big spot. So anyway, that was the deal from Umpire Auditor, much closer than I think most people thought in terms of the calls that helped each team. But again, the two in particular that really helped the Astros. The Correa owe two pitch probably more than any other because that inning ends and they never get that second two run homer. So it's a two-one lead when you get to the Roblese punch out on the called strike rather than the endings. 4-0-1. Anyway, there you go. I like the Nats tonight to force game 7. Again, I trust

Strasbourg more than I trust Verlander, and I think that's ultimately why I like the Nats tonight. I think it's the first pitching duel that we get. I think it's a, you know, a Strasbourg, seven innings, no-earned runs, 10 plus strikeouts, three, maybe four hits, maybe a walk, but he's dominant and hopefully the Nats can get one or two on the board and you're sitting there with Doolittle and then Hudson to close it out in a two nothing kind of game.

I think tonight's the first under game Aaron, it would be the second one, game three was under. But I think we get an under tonight and a pitching duel, but I trust Strasbourg to come out and pitch well. I think I agree with you. It'll come down to what we think about

when we think about the MLB playoffs, the little things here and there. the blue pit that falls in, it won't be the, you know, five home run game that we've gotten really in this postseason. Make no mistake, though, tonight. They have their best pitcher pitching. I love Max Scherzer. He is a dominant pitcher.

He is a badass competitor. Steven Strasberg has been their best regular season pitcher this year, and he's been their best postseason pitcher since he first pitched in the postseason for the nationals. He's been better as a playoff pitcher. than Max Scherzer. And by the way, has had at times in this postseason unhittable stuff, going back to the three innings of relief that he pitched against the Brewers in the wild card game. Now, what is important tonight for Strasbourg is he doesn't give up early runs like he did against the Dodgers in game five. He settled down, ended up pitching very well, or in game two of this series he gave up two in the bottom of the first inning.

It would be nice if he hung three or four zeros to start on the board and didn't put pressure on his offense to be in chase mode. Now, he's given up some early runs. Still pitched really well, still only ended up with two earned runs. I think in the Dodgers game five, it was three earned runs in that game, right? He gave up the Muncie home run, the two-run shot, and then didn't Hernandez, Homer in the third or in the second. And it was three-nothing Dodgers in that game five. Can't give up those early runs tonight. Got to hang some zeros on the board.

And what would be helpful too for the Nats is for Trey Turner, who was one for 14 at home, to get on base early in this game and to wreak havoc. And for the Nats to get a lead tonight. The pressure is on, obviously, the Nats. Houston's got a game to play with. They're up three, two. They've got tomorrow night. Now, they don't want to face Scherzer.

But you know what? When you've got a pinch nerve in your neck, when you've got neck spasms and you're you got to take a cortisone shot. I think it's a coin flip on whether or not he'll be available tomorrow night. And I would lean not. Now, might he have one inning in him tomorrow night in relief? I don't know. I mean, but anyway, I like the Nats tonight to win.

The thing that bothers me is the minus 180 number. Vegas was right about Houston all weekend long. They were right. And I think, you know, they've got a strong sense that it ends tonight. I'm surprised that they're that big of a favorite. They've been made that big of a favorite against Strasbourg. All right, that's it. We'll get to some football in Redskins talk here right after I tell you about stamps.com.

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That's Stamps.com, my promo code, Kevin, DC. Stamps.com, never go to the post office again. All right, let's bring in Ben standing from the athletic. Ben's been busy with this trade deadline today in the NFL at 4 p.m. and working on a lot of stories on his own and following up on a lot of the other reports that have been out there. It's mid-morning here on Trade Deadline Day. Just give me an update as you have it right now and as you see it right now on each of the players that we think are sort of in, you know, the mix to be traded. Trent Williams, Josh Norman, you know, Ryan Kerrigan, maybe Adrian Peterson, and anybody else that I might be missing.

Go ahead. Sure. I mean, I would probably say broadly tempered expectations about anything significant happening out of Aspern, you know, between Bruce Allen saying they're close, you know, in some cases perhaps asking for a lot, but, you know, having a price and not wanted to go below that, I don't know if I see the rest of doing anything. And obviously, we don't expect them to make any move towards adding somebody a significance. But, you know, you never know how the market plays out. For those guys specifically on Trent Williams, I mean, what I was told as of,

yesterday morning was that it's not that the door is closed that they're not listening, that the asking price is a first round pick or a player of note with a pick to go with that, and that Bruce Allen healed or dug in, this is what he wants, this is, that last

part of someone that person outside the building, and so, you know, we'll see if any team leads that price, you know, if the second round pick seems to be where the market is at, but I don't know if anybody's going to be willing to jump up. Ryan Carrigan, like it makes sense that this was the NBA, I would definitely imagine Ryan Carrigan being on the move.

Older guys, one year left in a deal next year. The Redskins are in a tough spot, but being the Redskins, I suspect they're going to keep a guy who's obviously one of their core players for a lot, several years, and figure things out in the offseason. Josh Norman, that's the one player I was told the Redskins are actively making calls on. I was told by an outside team they can't imagine the Redskins to get anything significant for him, citing among other factors, his performance this year. that he can be a bit of a pain in the locker room and whatnot.

But either way, Norman's obviously struggled. And lastly, on Peterson, I was told yesterday that there was some, I heard some murmurs yesterday about a potential interest from outside the league. I was told this morning, and I just put it up on Twitter, that Blackhead had been put up on Twitter. That the Redskins actually did receive an offer for Peterson, but apparently at this point it was considered to be a very low one. I don't think there's any movement there,

but that's another one. obviously it makes sense because considering his age and where the team is at and with the guys coming back. But if they really want to keep AP for next year, he is under contract, then, you know, maybe you don't move unless you can find the right part. I'll find the right price. So four guys to consider. I doubt, again, we see anything, but you never know. At least, you know, we'll have a little bit of fun here in the next two hours to track. Yeah, that was, that's sort of where I was this morning on the radio show, and I'll just say it today on the podcast. My guess is,

and I would lean towards them not doing anything for a lot of different reasons. And you and I may disagree on some of the reasons. But the bottom line is, from what I'm hearing, is that they really do think that they are much better than their record indicates. And they think that they've got a chance to get some second half momentum that would take them into next year. I've even been told that, you know, it's not even out of the realm of possibility that Bill Callahan and Case Keenham are back next year

if the second half of the season goes well. They were really disappointed that they couldn't close the deal against Minnesota in San Francisco. And there seems to be no acknowledgement that they barely beat the dolphins. They just chalked that up as a big win. And they probably, after watching the first half of the game last night or the first quarter, probably were emboldened in their position that Miami's much better than people think as well. And that was a solid win, a quality win down there in South Florida.

Florida. And by the way, I think, you know, with Bill Callahan talking yesterday, I think we heard more about, you know, Dwayne Haskins didn't playing anytime soon if Case Keenham's healthy. Case Keenham's their starter. They have a philosophical approach he talked about yesterday on his call, not on his call on his press conference yesterday, that they've started from the beginning of the year, that this was going to be a year for Case Keenham to be the starter. He was elected team captain, yada, yada, yada. they think they're much better than one in seven. You know what?

Go ahead, have at it. They think they're much better, which is why they've been so steadfast and staunch in their position, and they've had other reasons as well on Trent Williams. Now, on Trent Williams, here's a very interesting conversation that I think we should have, and that is whether or not it made sense to wait until a deadline to trade Trent, Trent Williams. Is this benefiting them in terms of the potential offers that they may get or are

getting or hurting them? That he's waited until the 11th hour to say, hey, you know what, now we're actually interested in trading him. You know, it's hard to say, you know, I guess it's all relative to what were the offers back then. I mean, I know you at the time had the team that offered a first. I've heard the opposite, it, but you know, which is split the difference. You know, if they were all for the first and they didn't take it, and now they're willing to trade them for a first, well, then that seems like it was, you know,

silly posturing on their part, and that pride, maybe played more of a factor that they really did believe that Chairman Williams would return or what have you. I don't think it, I didn't think they had to rush to make a deal immediately. It did seem to reach a point once we got past week one or two that waiting made a little sense. I don't even personally think that waiting until the offseason is the worst idea in the world. I'm in the minority on that.

But, you know, look, deadlines do create deals. This is the motto of, you talk to executives in any of the pros' sports. This is how things go. So, you know, waiting until the deadline is not the worst thing in the world. I mean, the other variable is none of us know, I don't think. We don't know what Trump put shape, Trent Williams was in physically at the start of the season. For all we know, we wasn't able to play week one, week, two, week three. So, you know, it's just hard to know.

I don't think, you know, there's a lot of reasons to crush the rights. I don't really think, especially with the trend-ling situation that it escalated to the degree, I don't think waiting to this point is problematic. Again, if they will legitimately offer a first and pass and now we're saying, okay, we'll take it, and it's not there. That's a misplay. I'm not sure I'm reading that that's what happened, but regardless, I don't think it's a big deal. But I think the question is, if, in fact, there's a second on the board,

that seems to be the consensus that there is a team. that they're willing to do that. If that's the case, then I think it's interesting, do make that call because at some point you do just need to move on with it. He clearly doesn't want to come back. What's the tone you're setting for your organization? Are you just going to have this thing linger, or you're just going to get it over with? And I think at that point is where I think it becomes interesting. You just take a second if that's there and move on. Yeah. Yeah, I think what you just said about it being hard to know in terms of waiting for the deadline is absolutely correct. Now, you do have one thing that you do know that

isn't hard to know is that anybody that trades for Trent Williams now wasn't getting him at the beginning of the season for 16 games. They're only going to get them this year for eight or nine, depending on how many games left the team that trades for him has. So there is, you know, the downside to that. But the other thing, and I do believe this to be true, you know, Bruce Allen is a person who is stuck in his ways. And he has this idea that, you know, deadlines make deals. You know, we've heard him say about, you know, he's always talking about deadlines. He expects Trent to be in for training camp, expects that the regular season will bring Trent in. You know, on the Kirk Cousin stuff, we've got plenty of time. I do expect

by the time we get to the deadline, we will have a deal. You know, this is a guy, and I explained earlier this way. This is a guy who, you know, basically says about a birthday, you know, I know that my birthday is Monday night and you guys are all working and you're too busy and you want to celebrate it on Sunday night, but that's not what we do. We celebrate birthdays on the night of the birthday. And so I'm not budging off that thought. We're going to do it on Monday night, even though it's less convenient to do it on Monday night. Like he's got this, he really is like not an out of the box, you know, innovative, creative thinker. That's not who Bruce is. And I think this, you know, waiting until the deadline has been on his mind as a failsafe in the event that they

didn't figure it out with Trent. I do think they wanted to make him bleed. I do think they wanted, you know, to make him make it painful for him. They're pissed off about the way this went down. And I'm not saying that they aren't justified in it. However, I don't believe that there haven't been decent offers already there on the table. Now, I don't know that the Redskins actually heard them or were open to receiving them. But I think New England at the very beginning of training camp, as I said, would have been willing to part with a first. I think Houston more likely than not probably would have reached out to the Redskins and were told we're not trading Trent Williams. But if those conversations had gone further that there would have been significant compensation,

maybe not Laramie Tunsell, maybe not two ones in a second in players, but certainly something in the neighborhood of what they now claim to be looking for. And I think maybe even Cleveland. I don't know much about the Cleveland situation, Ben. But here's what I do know, that the Cleveland situation, probably it would have been better to deal with Cleveland two or three weeks ago than it would be now after they've fallen to two and five on the season. So anyway, that's it on Trent.

And also, I mean, just, you know, to the Redskins point, you know, early in the season, Jay Gruden was still here, the idea of whether they are right to believe that they are close, whatever the definition of closes or not, I think they had definitely thought that earlier in the season, and I was not one of those people who thought there was those 3 and 13 when the season started. So even when they were starting off, you know, 0 and 2, 03, I still not just thought they would make the playoff, but, you know, I think it's still fair to think, okay, well, things won't be this bad, will improve, and obviously it never happened. So, you know, to their point, if, in fact, they're like, well, we don't want to just trade

Trent, which he'll hopefully come back and blah, blah, blah, and blah, the chance, you know, at least I give him that minor path. Again, that seems like a massive misread of Trent Williams' feelings, but regardless of that, sort of least minor path for thinking, well, we don't want to deal him right now because we hope he comes back and we think we still have a chance to do something. By the way, I would absolutely consider it to be a win if they got, you know, know, say a second and a third or a second and a conditional, you know, fourth. That could be a third or could be a fourth or whatever. I absolutely, that is what I thought the compensation would be

going back to last January and thought that if somebody were desperate, you could definitely get a one because before training camp, somebody loses somebody, a contender feels like they are an offensive lineman or a left tackle away from, you know, a big season versus, you know, an average season because of a key injury, that you could rest a first rounder away from somebody. And I think they may have been able to do it with Houston. But if they got a second and a third or second and a fourth, I'd consider that to be a pretty good deal for Trent Williams. Now, if they passed on an opportunity to get a lot more, I'd be pissed. But, you know, you see some of these deals that happen.

I mean, a second rounder for Muhammad Sunu? Really? Like, you know, the package for Tunsel that was given up by Houston to get Tunsel? I mean, that's a steep, steep price to pay. And so we've seen some of those deals. But Trent Williams has some, you nail it, by the way. On what is somebody getting with Trent Williams right now? The dude hasn't played this year. He hasn't been to OTA's mini-camp, training camp. he may not be able to go until week 11 or week 12. Or maybe what we don't know, Ben, is the medical thing is still an issue. Or it's an issue that he's still recovering from for all we know.

There's a lot that we don't know about it. But I am with you. I think we get to the end of this day and he's not traded. That's what I think happens. The Josh Norman thing, do you think there's one team out there that plays primarily zones? somebody like Pittsburgh, you know, plays all zone that's looking for a decent zone corner that would give up a conditional fifth, something like that? I think it's possible.

The answer is no. I was talking, without trying to sound like a name dropper type guy. Like, I was just talking trading messages with a general manager of another team earlier this morning and, you know, mentioned Josh Norman and he was like, I would be stunned if, right? He's got anything of significant, citing among the reasons. His performance this year is also that, you know, he can be, as I said, a bit of a bit of a pain. And I don't know if, you know, it's just wild that this is where we've reached it, you know, obviously, you know, we already knew going into this season he wasn't the elite cornerback with the rest of the hope he had added

that we could sort of stop talking about him as a pro bowl level player. But okay, still a guy who's, you know, a pretty good player and all that. And then we've watched this season unfold. and even in the games where I quit and Dunbar's out, and the Redskins are using seventh round pick Jimmy Moreland. It still felt like teams were going after Josh Norman. And, yeah, any new factor in the price tag, you know, at least for this year,

they can get out of the next year without much of the hassle. But, yeah, it's surprising in terms of where we were at the beginning of the season that this is where we do with Josh Norman. But here we are. So, yeah, I don't know if they can get anything of significant, considering, you know, all the other variables involved. If Ryan Carrigan were available, what do you think Carrigan would bring back? He's not, but let's just say they were interested in moving Ryan Carrigan.

Yeah, it's a good question. I haven't been able to get too deep on that one in terms of what the actual cost was. Basically, anybody I would talk to would just say, well, I can't imagine that they would trade him. You know, I don't know, is it conceivable? You get a – like on the one hand, I want to say, is it conceivable to get a third-round pick or something? But he only has two stacks this year. And, like, you know, I'll leave it to some of my brethren who like to dive deep on every single play in film review. But, like, I just don't feel like I see him impacting, forget even just the sacks.

I don't feel like I see him impacting the game a ton relative to this sort of perception. So I don't even know what the market would be for a guy who's on the wrong side of 30, who isn't doing a lot. But that said, Ed Passratcher, always a commodity. He is historically obviously one of the better ones in the league. So I would imagine it would be a market. I don't know if that gets you to do a third or we're just talking early day three. But, you know, I would imagine the team talking themselves and I think, hey,

there's a potential to be the difference between us, you know, getting, you know, Saxon-Ca-Ca-Raddy, not Sack and Tom Brady, is having another edge guy. So I don't know. Maybe there's a third, but I don't know if that's realistic. Yeah, I think if Ryan Kerrigan were made available, you'd get no less than a third personally. I just seeing these deals that are getting done, you're right, Ryan Carrigan isn't having an effective year, but people perceive Ryan Carrigan to be a good pass rusher around the league. And if you're not getting a pass rush and you think you have a chance to get a better one and compete for the playoffs,

look, Houston just lost JJ Watt. Ryan Kerrigan's not J.J. Watt, even though they had an opportunity with their pick that year to take J.J. Watt, but they traded back and took Ryan Carrigan. But I think actually, you know, a second with a desperate team would be in play in no less than a third. But they're not going to trade Ryan Carrigan. This is, you know, Ryan Carrigan's part of their immediate future, which they think is, you know, bright. You know, we have to understand that their perspective is much different than ours. They actually do believe that they're on the verge of proving to everybody that they're much better than their record says they are.

and carrying that late season 2019 momentum into 2020. And by the way, that leads me to this, which I want to have this conversation with you. And that is the press conference yesterday, which you got to a little bit late because I heard your last question of the press conference about Colt McCoy, which I'll get to in a moment. But so Bill Callahan, who's annoying to me at this point, Ben, not because I know that, people say he's smart and he's a nice guy, but he has gone out of his way in a very subtle, passive, aggressive way to knock Jay at every turn. Not that Jay doesn't deserve it. I didn't want Jay as the coach either, but this effort to present himself and the organization with him in charge as a much more professional, organized, hardworking, earnest organization is laughable to me.

But anyway, this was the key answer. yesterday in the press conference for me. He was asked a question by Craig Hoffman, which started with, you know, you said the other day that, you know, that you gave us examples of Steve Young and Joe Montana and Aaron Rogers and Brett Farve and tried to basically put Dwayne Haskins and Case Keenum into the same, you know, comparable, you know, bucket. And, and he essentially got to his question, which is, you know, why is sitting Dwayne Haskins beneficial to him in the long run? By the way, I mentioned yesterday on the show on Sunday when I was on. I mean, I do think sometimes they really think we don't know anything.

Like, oh, yeah, that's a good one. Steve Young and Joe Montana, you know, Aaron Rogers and Brett Favre. Yeah, Case Keenham's just like Joe Montana and Brett Fav. And by the way, the team at 1 and 7 is just like those 49ers teams of the early 90s, 80s and early 90s, and the Packers of, you know, 10 years ago. Anyway, this is what he said to the Hoffman question. Quote, I think that we started a course in the beginning of the year philosophically, and we've held true to the course in terms of where we're at right now currently, and we're going to maintain that. I really believe at the beginning of the year, Case earned the starting quarterback position. He was voted captain by his teammates, certainly deserving, certainly our starting quarterback.

So we're not confusing the issue here. Case is our starter, and if he's healthy and ready to play this Sunday, he will be going forward. I have a reaction to that. What's yours first? Well, lots of things. One, I've not been one of those people saying that Gwen Haskins needs to play. Starting with training camp, he's looked like a guy who needed more time, not saying he's a bus or anything. like that, but like when you're experienced at Ohio State, we all know this, time, he needs

more, he needs to, you know, cook a bit more. And I think based on what we've seen him on the field, in relief appearances, that remains consistent. So if they want to wait, even beyond the by-week, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it, but, you know, at some point a lot that he got from out there. The idea, though, that he's saying Case Keenham is the starter, and one, the job is interesting on a few fronts. One, while I personally would have started and Case Keenham over the other options based on what he's done over his career. I don't think Jake Rudin thought that way.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure Jake Rudin thought Colt McCoy was the guy until Colt McCoy got hurt late in training camp. So the idea that the Calhant is saying that it's either just straight spin right now to, you know, because King Keen is the guy he would prefer, or he, you know, shows that he really disagreed with Gruden from the jump, and that's probably the case. And to the point of the patience, I mean, you may be, I think you're about to get to this,

but like, I was in the locker and missed part of Callahan, but came in late, and I asked him, so wait, what he said Colt McCoy can't, is not going to be starting matter what, why. And he basically just gave an answer with like, eh, you know, whatever. Right. And that to me, it sort of shows, like, there's some major disconnect here. If Wayne, it's fine, Chase Keenum, you want him to start? Fine. Case is a reasonable play, fine.

But if he's not available, you're saying the next jump as you skip Colt McCoy, who's a case Keenham borderline carbon copy, and you're going to go to Dwayne Askins, who you just said isn't ready and you guys have a plan? Like that makes no sense. And that's just sort of tied into how it's constantly viewed over there. Like, wait, what? I know. This doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, his answer to your question on whether Colt McCoy's being considered for the starting quarterback job, he said, you know, like I said, going back a few weeks, Case is the starter, Dwayne is the backup. if Case doesn't play and Dwayne was the starter, then Colt would definitely be the backup. And by the way, you hit on something that I was going to hit on. And that is that Jay really thought that Colt McCoy was the starting quarterback. There was clearly a disconnect between assistant, you know, offensive head coach and

offensive line coach Bill Callahan and the head coach Jay Gruden because he went out of his way to basically say, and again, I think this is a subtle shot at Jay in his mind as he's answering the question, and that is the case earned the starting quarterback position. He was voted captain by his teammates, certainly deserving to be our starting quarterback, where Jay, the week leading up to the New England game, said about Colt McCoy, if he had won the job in training camp, had he been healthy, he said, well, yeah, it was his job to lose. That's for sure. You know, so, yes, Jay wanted Colt healthy and this guy said Colt. And by the way, I can't imagine sitting and watching both of them and thinking that I want to go with Colt McCoy for 16 games. I'm not thrilled to go with Case Keenham, but I think Case Keenum would have been the way to go at the beginning of the year. With all that said, this is troubling because he is saying to you that we started this course in the beginning of the the year with a philosophy of, I'm basically projecting here, but I think I know what their

philosophy was, and that is, Dwayne's a project, he's a long-term project, yeah, we drafted him pretty high, and there are a lot of people in the building that really thought that we drafted him too high, but he's the long-term future, and by the way, he's not going to be ready to play this year, because he basically, you know, came from a system that doesn't make him. him ready to play in the NFL. He's a project. But we thought that Case gave us the best chance to win, and we thought we were going to win this year. We thought we were going to win. And so we're going to hold true to that philosophy, even at one and seven. What makes sense about that? That to me is Bruce saying, my birthday is Monday night. And I know no one can make it because everybody's

busy and working and no, but no, I don't want to celebrate it on Sunday night. We're going to do it Monday night. We started this year with a philosophy that Case gave us the best chance to win. We're one in seven now, but too bad. That's our philosophy. We're sticking with it. It's so insane. It really is just beyond me how limited the thinking is out there and how just stuck in a box they are. And in the way they think about everything, Ben. It drives me crazy. Yeah, no, for sure. And, you know, you tie it in with the quarterbacks, with the quarterback that just played, their old friends or cousins, you know, not to re-litigate that whole situation. And I put somebody on Kirk traffic, perhaps he went down. But that said, when Bruce Allen came out

and talked about the offers that were being made and how we thought they were, you know, a fair offer, and then you look at the marketplace, it's like, wait, what? No, who's thinks that, but like it somehow it's just like, they have an idea, and that's the idea. I mean, like I said, I spoke to the NFL executive

week sort of just about the Redskins in general and, you know, his basic take was, you know, from years of dealing with Bruce Allen, once he digs in his heels, they're in cement, and that's it. And, you know,

I think we are seeing that sort of play out over and over again, and even just to broad it's out beyond the quarterback in terms of the deadline. Like, my take has basically been, look, you're one and seven. Even if you think they're close. Right, okay, anybody who's an understricted free agent,

or you can already project won't be on my team next year, get with them. No. Call around the league. I mean, like, again, I'm just, if John Bobbitt's on a one-year deal. I don't know if anybody wants to give a seventh-round pick for him. He's a reasonable player. If you're not going to keep him or he's a great-year-reason,

why wouldn't you try to do that? There's other guys on this team, you know, even Chris Thompson. I mean, you know, it just doesn't make any sense. This should be to me saying, Hey, you know, you and I talk about the wizard. It's like how the wizards didn't trade for every reason, Jeff Green at the deadline. It was, but what?

What are you doing? You're going nowhere. Stop trying to pretend that this season matters still. So that's the, but that's at the larger point. I just don't understand the lot of it, and it just seems like whether it's stubborn or this or pride, there's an element that just kicks in that seems to prevent them. It's not all bad. It'll do everything wrong.

Some things, you know, I think are reasonable. but like the just that one piece is just so frustrating to watch it's just like this is so much such an obvious choice you may not get anything for these guys maybe maybe kings are low-balling on stren williams we'll see but the idea of like we're closed and we're going to sort of be stubborn in that direction is just it just hurts the head yeah it hurts the head and you know reminding me not that i need to be reminded of it of their paltry offer to kirk cousins an offer that they felt was one of the biggest offers ever, and they called them essentially greedy for not accepting it, is really where we are. You have to view them through, you know, their history. They've been so far off, so many times that, you know, it's why more likely than not, this Trent Williams handling has been handled poorly. And to your point, just pull up the list of free agents. You've got guys here next year that you've got guys on your roster right now on a one and seven roster that probably won't be here next year. Case Keenham, unless they decide they're going to make

them the starter next year, which by the way may be coming more of a reality by the day, you trade him, you trade Adrian Peterson for anything, you trade Vernon Davis if there's any market for him. I would trade Brandon Sheriff. I think he's asking for too much money, and I don't think he wants to be here. And I think they're going to end up going down the franchise tag path with him. Chris Thompson's hurt right now, but there would be some value for him. Do you know who's an unrestricted free agent next year? Maybe their most valuable player.

Tressway. I would trade him if somebody was interested, because he may not be here next year. But they don't think that way, Ben. They don't think that way. Just like they thought the market for Kirk Cousins was $30 million less than what it was, what it was, and then they got obstinate and tried to make him out to be the guy that was dead wrong, and this is what they're going to do with the Trent Williams stuff and everything else. And, you know, by the way, I mentioned this on the radio this morning.

This is a bad year to be bad. There are so many bad teams this year, record-wise, that you're going to be, you could potentially go 3 and 13 or 4-12 and not have a top-5 pick this year. You know, right now you've got the 0 and 7 dolphins, the 0 and 8 Bengals, the 1 in 6 jets, the 1 in 7 Redskins, the 1 and 7 Falcons. You know, you've got several two-win teams, like the Giants and the Broncos. Like this is a year where if they really are, you know, out to prove everybody wrong in their own mind in the second half of the season, and they end up winning a few games, they may barely have a top 10 pick. it would become even more laughable. And at that point, by the way, Ben,

they better rehire Callahan and re-sign Case Keenum if they win three or four games down the stretch, which I don't think they're going to do. But if they do it, they should continue the ruse and take it into next year. Why not? Yeah, and by the way, like I got with, you know, everybody has the right to root how they want to root as a fan. But something that always baffles,

like people who, you know, are desperate for their team to be good, not just, you know, and, like, they'll crush the Redskins, you know, whatever, but then they're so desperate for their team to win on the Sunday so they can feel better about themselves, that they would rather the red skin to win a game, even if it meant losing in the, dropping in the standing, which at a certain point, we're probably there. That's what matters most right now. You know, where the Redskins is going to finish in the draft. Reminder, they don't have a second round pick. So the first round pick is the, you know, not the whole enchilada, but it's, it's most of the meal, and like you just pointed out, winning one game could drop you right now from third to ninth or something, who knows.

So, like, the ideal, just keep that in check as we get through the season here. I know each week hurts, but hopefully the pain should be numb by, you should be almost numb by now. You know, I'm not saying you root out against the rest of them, but, like, then winning on Sunday is not going to help the cause, I mean, I don't think it's on hot, probably even if they're going on hot street, what I don't know what it means anymore. I'll say that. Unless Haskins is the reason why they're winning, then winning at this point does not help the call. The picks are where the game is, as well as building up the young players like Montess

sweat and so on. But unless Haskins is the driving force, winning is not helping anybody's call right now. That's what I was just going to say. Like, if they get Haskins in there, then I'm going to root for him to play well, improve. And if they win some games, even better, because there is then the confidence that comes with that and the carryover and the optimism and the whole thing. I go back to 2017. They played Arizona in Denver late in the season at home. And I remember saying, and God, Doc just carved me up. It was hysterical. But I'm like, look, you don't want to win these games. You know, you do not want to beat the Cardinals and the Broncos.

These are teams you're competing with for draft choices. And you win these games and it's going to drop you significantly in the draft. Now, they ended up getting Duran Payne. right? That was the 2018 draft. They ended up getting Duran Payne. But have you, has anybody watched, you know, a guy like Quentin Nelson in Indianapolis, you know, if they had ended up with that pick, or Bradley Chubb before he got hurt in Denver, that's where Denver ended up with the fifth pick in the draft. You know, you could, I mean, I like Duran Payne. Don't get me wrong. And by the way, he is becoming, if he, maybe he was this already, but he's a freak athletically.

Like he's really going to be a good player. This is the only thing positive about their roster is pain, ionitis, and Allen. Like they have a legitimate, you know, they've got legitimate hope to be a good defensive line in years to come. I was listening to Mike Zimmer's press conference, Ben, and the week before that, listening to Kyle's press conference. Both of them went out of their way to say that defensive front, that is really really, really good. I think Zimmer said very underrated and quality, you know, when they're talking about guys like Allen and Ionitis and pain. So I don't want to knock the pick of pain, but they potentially could have gotten a guy like Quentin Nelson or Bradley Chubb had they lost those games. You know,

Chubb in particular, I think, is going to be a game changer for years to come. But anyway, and I would say that like if, you know, if the Redsons want to believe they're close, I mean, I do think that the defense, while I think it's been overstated to a degree, how much we've grown the last couple of weeks because San Francisco and Minnesota were able to, you know, put them away in the second half. But there is – people really do see the talent there between those guys you mentioned and, you know, Clint Dunbar for the good year at Lann & College, even if people think he was an overpay as a free agent. He's an opposite to the player. But there is talent on that side of the ball.

But your offense has so many questions. And just one less thing on the draft, whether we're talking about them being in a position to get a – quarterback, you know, or whatever. Again, they don't have a second-round pick. So if you have the third pick and, you know, two is there or Justin Herbert or whatever and some other team wants to move up to get that guy because you still believe, and you still believe in Haskins, that's more leverage to trade. Exactly.

So the opportunity to trade down and get more stuff, including that potentially that second-round pickback. So there's lots of reasons to have that regard to whether they actually draft the quarterback or not. and yeah, I don't know. I mean, if it were up to us, we'd probably screw it up, but I think we'd be on a better path than them. Because, you know, what you just said is so true.

This upcoming draft, a top two or three pick, you could hold, you know, it could bring back a king's ransom if you don't want one of those quarterbacks. And if Chase Young isn't there, because I think I'd use it on Chase Young. But, you know, all of this just goes hand in hand with, you know, just how far they appear to be from reality, you know, from going back to the cousins thing, 30 plus million off. That isn't just off. That is a total misread of the marketplace on the most important position and usually the easiest to figure out in the league. You know, from we're close last year, we're close the year before, we're close this year, to just, you know, the misread of the Trent Williams situation potentially.

And the misread of the last three games makes me laugh. The fact that they really believe that they were close to beating the 49ers, which they were, don't get me wrong, but that that would have been reflective of something in the weather conditions in which they played. If anybody watched that Minnesota game, does anybody think Minnesota was going to ever lose that football game. They basically just totally game planned in the second half around the Redskins' inability to score.

If they didn't have 100 penalties in that game, they would have hung 30 plus on the Redskins easily. Just to think that they were actually close in that game is just a misread. I do think, though, that they're getting better defensively. I do agree with that sentiment. I think they're better defensively, and I think they're pretty good defensively up front moving forward. I do. By the way, I'm sure you've got to go, but if I can

say one quick thing here about Bruce Allen, you know, you mentioned, we talked about the Cousins and how the misread and all that. You know, it's one thing to misread. And look, I'm not, I didn't think Cousins was worth the money he got, even though the market is what it is, I get that. But, you know, I have my questions about whether Kirk Cousins will win a big game and all that, we'll see. But here's the thing. the Washington Nationals

did a very smart thing with Bryce Harper they lowballed him significantly the deferred money thing was a crab offer once we learned all the details but what they did was they put stuff out there to the media out into the world that suggested

we're making him an offer that's comparable to what the real offers are out there they basically put the owner from Bryce Harper's camp to say the opposite so then when the time came and Harper signed with Philly, the immediate reaction was that greedy guy. Look at him. He took just a little bit more money to go to a division rival.

How dare he? Even though the reality is that wasn't the case at all, but the National's offer wasn't close to what the Phillies offer was. What the Redskins do, though, is they come out on their own and say, we're making him a low-ball offer, and we think it's fair. That is the problem. They're from a straight-up PR narrative aspect. They're not good at these things, and that's part of this problem.

that PR doesn't necessarily win you games, but it wins you fans. It helps the perception of what's going on over there, so that every single thing that happens isn't considered to be, you know, a mistake, a joke, whatever you want to say. And that's just an example of how two teams handle a similar situation, both came to a similar conclusion, and yet their handling of it was so different that the perceptions of the two teams as a result are just massively different,

regardless of the national one to the World Series. This was the case before that. Yeah, that's true. You know, the bottom line is, though, the Redskins also end up stepping on there. You know what, every time they do it in a way in which they come off as what they are, mean, spirited and petty. And, you know, that's why people of higher quality don't want to be there. You know, that's why Kirk Cousins would have preferred to have been elsewhere. And they put him into a position where he was going to have a choice.

Like I always say to people, like, you wanted Kirk Cousins. cousins to stay for $30 million less to work for these people when he had a choice that was much better. Like, what planet are you on? Like, there's not an agent on the planet that would have told him to accept their offer, not one. And if they did tell him that, they should be fired on this spot. Now, does that mean that, you know, that he would have accepted a high priced offer, a market value offer? I don't know. My personal feeling is, once Sean McVeigh left, and he had to look at Bruce every day in that office and walk into a building that Bruce Allen was in, that he wanted out, as I think a lot of players probably went out of that building with Bruce Allen in it.

But that's beside the point. The way they handled it, you're right, was totally opposite. And then they did what they do all the time. They try to throw their greedy employee under the bus, and it ends up backfiring all the time on them. All right, that was great. I appreciate it. Go figure out whether or not they're going to make a deal. I'm with you, by the way. I don't think they're making any deals today. I think they actually believe that Trent Williams comes back, plays, and then plays for them next year on a playoff team. Do you think Trent Williams comes back by week 10, though? No.

They don't make a turn. If he does, he does, and he says, put me on injured reserve immediately. I'm not well. I can't play. I don't know how that would work. I don't know if he comes back, if he's got the choice to be put on IR. It won't be comfortable if he comes back to get that accrued season. You know, I mean, how comfortable would that be if they actually have to suit him up and play them? I mean, seriously. I don't know.

No, I mean, it's hard to imagine how, after all, that he would feel compelled to play for them to put his body on the line. because part of the reason, you know, his contract next year is, you know, there's not a lot of guaranteed money there or any or whatever it is. So, like, you know, part of this whole thing is he needs a new deal, and if he's going to go risk his body with the injuries he's had, he's been going to be rusty, all that, you know, how many times we see a guy with a lengthy hold out of the field and get some kind of injury?

So it's hard to see that he would go play, but I don't know what his recourse is if they say you have to. I also think you just hit once again on maybe the reason that waiting to trade up. is not going to work out in their favor because teams look at it and it's like first of all they may not be as desperate as they were a few weeks ago you know take cleveland as an example and secondly you're not going to have him for the entire season and when you do get him in what kind of shapes he going to be in how ready is he going to be to play and when you hold out for that long you're right it does seem like more often than not somebody gets injured pretty quickly um so anyway uh thanks for doing this i appreciate it Yeah, man. Thank you. All right, that's Ben Standing from The Athletic. Subscribe to the Athletic. Ben writes a lot of good stuff for the athletic.

Follow him on Twitter at Ben Standing. Ben's covering the Redskins right now. Of course, in years past, we spent a lot of time talking to Ben about the Wizards. One just last thought on the Trent Williams thing, because I just sort of remembered it as Ben hung up. The Redskins were reportedly looking for a player too. And that's another indication that they think that this season still means something. Like, give me a player that can help me now rather than a pick that can help me down the road.

Again, I don't know. I think it's funny, I was listening to Doc yesterday on the radio. Doc believes that they are now headed in the right direction. He's very high on Bill Callahan. And in part because he thinks it was a total. clown show with Jay Gruden. Brian Mitchell feels the same way. And I'm not a Jay Gruden defender at all. I thought they should have fired him after last year. I thought it was a disaster to bring him back for this year. I'm glad Jay Gruden's gone. But I am not bullish on Bill Callahan. And just the thought

that Bill Callahan might be the head coach here next year is really deflating. This guy already in three games has told you that basically it's raining when he's pissing on your leg because they stunk against Miami. They weren't nearly anywhere near as close as he thinks they were to beating the 49ers and the Vikings. The 49ers game you throw out. It was played in a monsoon on a field straight out of 1975. All right, the only thing that was missing from that game against the 49ers was a baseball diamond on the field that turned. into mud. But anyway, if you are with Doc believing that they have now started something that is sustainable, then you want maybe a player in the deal. Maybe you want to hold on to

Trent Williams. Maybe you want to keep starting Case Keenum. Maybe you want to sign Case Keenum to a long-term deal. Don't discount that that's the way they're thinking, that they may be thinking the same way, that we're about to get something going here in the second half of the season. You know, we're going to beat the jets. We're going to beat the giants. We're going to prove to people that were better than our record says we are right now, which is what they are really disappointed they haven't been able to prove already. And they think they would have absolutely proved it had they beaten the 49ers and beaten the Vikings, almost completely discounting that they barely beat the dolphins, all right, got blown out by the Patriots,

Giants and Bears, they think they can beat the Jets, the lions, the giants, and maybe even somebody like the Eagles at home for four wins, go four and four, five and eleven overall with all this momentum. They're not ready to play Dwayne Haskins. They may be forced to play him because of Keenham's health. They don't want to play him. He's not their immediate future. He may not even be the future in 20.

Just keep all of that in mind about where their mindset is. All right, quick word about mybooky.ag. Mybooky.ag is a reliable place to wager. All right, this is something a lot of you have been asking about where do I play your smell test picks. By the way, the smell test, Aaron, four, five, and one after the loss last night with Pittsburgh. I had Pittsburgh laying 14. They won by 13. Had opportunities to cover and they didn't get it done.

Had a couple of painful losses this weekend. The Bengals loss was painful. They scored late. They had about 50 goal to goes at the end to get a backdoor cover. Cleveland certainly had opportunities to cover, but I can't rely on Cleveland anymore. And then last night, Pittsburgh had a couple of chances after falling behind 14, nothing to cover. But they didn't. So a 4-5-and-1 smell test weekend.

So you may not be looking for a place to bet my smell test plays. But bet your own place. All right, don't listen to me. And go to my bookie.ag. because they're reliable, they have fast payouts, they have reliable lines, and they've got plenty of ways to bet. Go to my bookie.orgie.ag, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. If you use K-Ev-I-N-D-C, they will double your first deposit. They'll do it once you go to my bookie.orgie.orgie.com and enter my promo code, they'll double your first deposit, but you got to use my promo code. All right, my bookie.org, you play, you win, you get paid.

A couple last thoughts because we've not done a lot of other NFL over the last few weeks, really primarily because of the baseball run, which is fun. But I wanted to mention a couple of things. Number one, I think I mentioned this to Ben. Bad year to be bad. You know, you got to be really bad to ensure a top three pick. You can't go four and 12 or five and 11. You may be sitting outside the top 10 on draft day in a loaded draft.

And as Ben pointed out, and I've pointed out in previous. shows. You got a top two or three pick in this draft, and you don't want one of the quarterbacks, you're going to get a boatload for that pick, a boatload. It could really set them up for, you know, opportunities. And I know what all of you were going to say, because you always tweet it to me. Well, as long as Bruce and Dan are there, they're not going to make the right picks with the additional draft choices they get anyway. So what's the point? Okay, whatever. Bad year to be bad because there's so many bad teams. Second thing, is in the NFC this year, you may need 11 and 5 to get a wild card, no less than 10 and 6.

All right. You go 9 and 7, you're on the outside looking in. There's no 9 and 7 NFC wild card this year. You've got right now three division leaders in San Francisco, the Saints and Packers, who are 7 and 0, 7 and 1, and 7 and 1 respectively. All right, you've got wild card contenders, Minnesota is 6 and 2, the Seahawks are 6 and 2, the Seahawks are six and two. The Rams are five and three. The Panthers took it on the chin at San Francisco this week. They're four and three. And the NFC East is looking like a one-team division, a one-team playoff division. But, you know, one of those two teams, both of them could get hot and one of them could end up, you know, 10 and 6 and be in the hunt. You're not getting in the playoffs this year in the NFC without at the very least 10 and 6 and maybe 11 and 5. Lastly, Aaron, I was looking at games in the second half of this season and interesting weekends in the NFL.

If you go to the weekend of November 23rd, it's week 12, I believe, it's the Sunday, November 24th. There are two late scheduled Fox doubleheader games, one of which when the NFL schedule makers made the schedule, they said, this is going to be our highest rated 425 doubleheader game of the year. Cowboys at Patriots and Foxborough. The problem is, is they had another Fox 425 scheduled game in that same window. Packers at 49ers. Both of those are late afternoon November 24th Fox Games. Now, when the schedule makers came out with it,

they said Cowboys Patriots is going to go to the entire country and the Milwaukee and Bay Area markets will get Packers 49ers, and that's it. The Sunday night game that week is Seahawks at Eagles. So you do have a flex opportunity to take the Packers and 49ers, or the Cowboys and the Patriots, but more likely than not it would be the Packers and 49ers, move them into the Sunday night spot and move Seahawks Eagles to 1 o'clock that day. You could do that. But you know what?

Seahawks Eagles, pretty good Sunday night game. not a bad Sunday night option. But what will Fox do? What will the networks do with the Cowboys Patriots and Packers 49ers? The Packers 49ers could be the preview of the NFC title game. You know, that's going to be interesting. The logical thing, you've got to get them across the three things. You've got to get them across the three timeslots.

You don't want any of them overlapping, but I just don't know what the best way to do it would be. I think the best way is what I said. I think they're going to move Seahawks Eagles from Sunday night into the one o'clock window. That's what they'll do. They'll move it into the 1 o'clock Fox window, and then they'll have Cowboys Patriots sitting there by itself because Fox is not going to give up Brady against the Cowboys.

They're not going to give that up for a Sunday nighter, and the Packers-Niners game is going to move to a Sunday night spot. I think that's what's going to happen on NBC. Because you do not, if your Fox, want those two games going head-to-head in your double-heder window. I don't think you want that. But anyway, I just thought that was interesting. There are other big games to come. You know, with all of these, you know, there is definitely a bigger separation,

a bigger difference this year, especially in the NFC, between the good teams and the bad teams. You know, you've got all these really good records, you know, a 7 and 0, 2, 7 and 1s, a 6, 6 and 2s, you know, side by side with like the Redskins, the Giants, the Falcons. You know, so you've got some heavyweight matchups coming up on the NFL schedule. in the latter portions of the season. But that one was the most interesting one in terms of, you know, a late window, you know, the NFL early on probably thinking to themselves, yeah, well, that's Cowboys, Patriots. We'll throw the Packers and Niners.

In neither team, the Packers and the Niners were expected to be where they are now. I think the Packers, you know, a lot of people thought had a chance to really improve. But anyway, all right, let's finish up the show. If you haven't gotten the app, try it out. You can get the Kevin Sheehan Show app using the app store on your iPhone or the Google store on your Android. Rate us and review us on the app. And also let me know it Kevin Shee and DC on Twitter if you're having any problems with it. I've tried to go through a lot of the follow-ups on Twitter here over the last week to see if anybody has said anything about the app.

I've gotten very little in terms of negative feedback. A couple of very positive things. but if you're having any issues with it at all, let me know. And also if you're listening to the podcast on iTunes or Apple podcasts, Apple podcasts, rate us and review us if you haven't done it. All right, thanks to Ben Standing. Thanks to Aaron back tomorrow to hopefully preview a game seven of the World Series. Go Nats.

Enjoy the day.