The Kevin Sheehan Show - Gibbs and Rivera

Episode Date: January 23, 2020

Kevin and Thom opened with the Ted Leonsis, the Wizards, Zion Williamson and Morgan Wootten. They discussed the latest reports about Dan Snyder's search for a new stadium location. They also got to the Barry Svurluga (Washington Post) story on Joe Gibbs' role in convincing Ron Rivera to come to Washington. The boys talked about the Jason LaConfora (CBS) story that predicted that Derrick Carr will be the Redskins' starting QB in 2020. The Eli Manning/Hall of Fame debate finished the show. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Tommy's here. I'm here. Aaron's here. A little advice to start the show off, Tommy. It's weekly advice. You have some advice? It's daily and weekly advice. It comes from somebody of note. Somebody you know well. We both know to a certain degree. He tweeted out just hours ago. hydrate, 72 ounces per day, 10,000 steps minimum per day, seven hours of sleep, seven days, 49 hours per week, a sleep bank to zero budget. I'm not even really sure what that means. No devices near bed, 70 degrees in room, no sugar past 6 p.m., no social media past 8 p.m. read 50 books per year, no empty thought calories. Great life advice on being, it's a way, it's really the business of being healthy and happy. It's the game plan for life. Guess who tweeted that out?

You? I did not. No? This is a person who in the past has written books explaining to everybody how they can be happy. The business of happiness, Ted Leonsis himself, tweeted that out. Transparent Ted. just hours ago. It's actually very good advice. I have been very much trying to get 10,000 steps per day in. That's always a goal. The no sugar past 6 p.m. is, it's actually for me,

I've been trying to do it not past like 7 or 8 p.m. Will you stop? I'm being serious. Will you stop? Will you stop? Stop being serious here. This is good advice. This is unbelievable. This is such great advice from Ted. What did he do? Last night, when he locked his phone in his vault before 8 o'clock, did he go in the bed, he's climbing the bed, turned to his wife, Myrtle, and say, you know what? Is that his wife's name?

I have no idea. Oh, God. I hope he's not married to Myrtle. Say, you know, Murdo, tomorrow, I'm going to tell people the right way to live. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give them my secret plan, my game plan for life. This one is so arrogant. It's not, I don't think this is arrogant.

Oh, it's, I actually, when I read it earlier this morning, I was like, hold on for a second, you know, I do try to drink a lot of water. Yeah. 72 ounces is a lot of water. I know that. Okay. That, you know, that, that's like, you know, every bit of like four and a half to five water bottles a day. But I probably drink three normal sized, you know, 16 ounce, right? A normal water bottle, 16 ounces are?

Please don't do this. Is it usually, I think it's 16 ounces. I drink three or four of those a day. Nobody cares how good you take care of yourself. I do try to get to 10,000 steps a day. The sleep thing is the major problem for me, but I know he's right about this. You need seven hours of sleep a night, seven days a week, and it would make a big difference. And it's any, now 70 degrees in the room.

That's kind of warm. That's pretty warm. That's awfully warm. You know what? the social media, no social media passed 8 p.m. Well, then you can't, then you're pretty much out of the in-game tweeting business. Yes, you are. Well, he should be at the in-game tweeting business.

Look, the 10,000 steps thing, I used to do it, but then I realized this is absurd. I mean, I'd be sick. You got to 10,000 steps per day? I used to do it regularly, but I'd sit there at 7 o'clock at night and say, oh, my God, I'm 3,000 steps short. What do I do? And I go out and walk? That's ridiculous.

Why is that ridiculous? That's obsessive. Well, there is a... It's just an arbitrary number. Well, it's not an arbitrary number. Somebody has decided that somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 gives you some level of cardio that, you know, you need at a minimum. So does 7,000.

So does 13,000. Well, it gives you more than zero. Yes. My point is. I mean, I just stopped doing that. I just said, I'm not walking around the mall at 8.30 at night. Well, you don't have to walk around your mall. To get 10,000 steps.

You know, old putts community you live in. Yeah, but if it's really cold. But you don't have a dog, you know, it's just you walking around, which probably looks pretty weird. But you'd strike up conversations with people. I don't like to talk to anybody when I walk. I don't like talking to anybody when I walk. When I'm walking, I'm doing business.

I'm not there. So I stopped doing that. I mean, I just think that's absurd. The water thing just comes naturally to me. I've always drank. Look, this is ridiculous. Yeah. You know?

I mean, Ted, I mean, imagine telling everybody I know the way to live. Well, he does. And I'm going to tell you the way to live. He does that a lot. Oh. He wrote a book, the business of happiness. Not only did he write a book. He lectured everybody on what it took to be happy.

He's actually come out with a new version of it. I know you told me about that. That's crazy. Yeah. I wonder if this is in the book. You know, his game plan for life. I wonder, well, he wasn't on the bench last night because it was a road game, but I wonder if he was as upset watching the game as I was last night. Can we start with the Wizards?

It's been a long time. Yeah, go ahead. Since we started with the Wizards. God. What a waste of time. There isn't much of a reason these days to really even talk about the Wizards. But I'm watching the game last night, Tommy. And we do have to talk about Zion Williamson and what he did last night.

I hope you've at least watched the highlights. Yeah. That's all I saw because I turned, well, it got to 8 p.m. And, or I needed the seven hours, so I had to turn the TV off. But you know how, you know that over the years I've said about Beal and Wall, there's this like sort of immature, casual way that they handle themselves sometimes on the floor during games that drives me nuts. You know, it's one of the reasons I think that they've always, you know, been high turnover guys. And you know what?

I figured out why they do that. Why? They don't hydrate enough. They may not hydrate enough. And I don't know if they get seven hours sleep enough. I guarantee you they're not cutting off social media at APM. So I don't think they're following Ted's game plan for life. That's part of the problem.

So last night, you know, I'm watching this game. And I have not watched a lot of Wizards games this year. You know, I tune in every once in a while, and especially in the end when they're close. and, you know, Beal's really a great score. He's turned into a high-level NBA score. That's good. He's a very valuable commodity that they should trade as soon as they can. I'm not against that.

Beal right now is sixth in the league in scoring, averaging 27 and a half points per game, which, you know, he can score. You know, when he first came into the league, people would say, well, he's just a jump-shoe, and then you've got to create ways to get him open. You've got to screen for him to get him open. And I was like, no, he doesn't have the best handle. He's got a bit of a loose handle. But you can see he's got a bit of a stepback game.

He's got a mid-range game. And he can get to the rim. And he's gotten so much better at all those things. Like he's really, you know, he's a high level. I don't want to say elite, you know, he's not Hardin. You know, he's not Lillard. Could have had him for Hardin. Yeah.

Remember that. He's not Donchich at this point. But he's really up there. I know. He is. But go ahead. Do you remember last week his diatribe against his teammates? Yeah.

How funny was that? Was that he was the old man on the porch. I know. Screaming at the cloud. That was so hilarious. Well, to be fair, nobody screamed at him when he was a young player. Most of that was directed towards John Wall. I know.

But just the idea. The idea that somebody that age would be be moaning the young players. What is he? 26, 27? He's not 27 yet. Is he, Aaron? He's probably 25. Okay.

I'm going to guess that he's 25 years ago. I mean, I got a real kick out of him complaining about... 26. 26. The younger players and their practice habits and they're playing. He literally was. He was a boomer. He was okay, boomer.

Well, somebody tweeted that. to him last night. I hope he didn't respond if it was after 8 p.m. Yes. So that's not the way to live. I'm watching this game last night. And they're beating Miami. You know, again, you know, the heat are the second best team in the Eastern Conference.

I know that, but they didn't win. They didn't win. They beat them a couple weeks ago. It blew them out a couple weeks ago at home. They've actually been, remember early in the season? I said, you know, they're actually better than they think they are. They are. They're better than they think they are. They're not a terrible team. And on nights, they've been really close.

one in five now in games. They're going to wind up with 26 wins this year. There are one in five in games this year in five points or less. Losses five points or less. Anyway, at the end of the game, at the end of regulation, it's tied up. And he grabs a rebound. He's got the ball seven and a half seconds to go. And here he comes up the court, like there's 24 on the shot clock. Casual, I'm like, oh God, here comes something that's not going to be good because Wall and Beal both, this has not been their time crunch time over the years. They do not close well. They haven't for the most part. They all had moments. They've had moments. But for the most part, if you've been a big Wizards fan like I've been for the last several years where you've actually had a couple of seasons

to be excited about, this is a pain in the ass portion of the game because you know what's coming. Something that doesn't end in shot made game one. But this was last night really galling. Like, I'm watching him, and he's like either completely oblivious to how much time's left, or he's just doing, like, there's a certain oblivion, he's oblivious, Wall's oblivious in these spots a lot of time to clock, to defenders, to situation. It's almost like they're trying to be too school, too cool for school. Who said that about them? Somebody said that about them. I don't know.

Don't you remember somebody said about Wall or about Beal that they're too cool for school? No, it's not that memorable comment that I would remember who said it. Or was that Gruden who said that about Deshawn Jackson? I can't remember now. Anyway, somebody had that old man boomer comment. But wouldn't the coach have prepared him for that moment? I mean, wouldn't Scott Brooks have prepared him for that moment? No, he's not.

Tommy, he doesn't get the shot off before the buzzer goes off. He never got a shot off. And he had seven seconds. He had plenty of time. plenty of time to get to a spot. They had plenty of time to run something real quickly, but I could see it in the way he was handling the ball coming up. I'm like, this is going to be a bad shot, and then he didn't even get it off.

He got it off after the horn. I mean, I'm sorry, but that is immaturity. That's a casual approach. It's lackadaisical. It's oblivious. It's bad coaching, too. Nope, that's on the player. I'm sorry, that's on the player.

A coach does not need to tell you. He had a timeout left. The coach, and next time he's going to probably take the time out to say, hey, guys, just so you know, we're seven seconds. And we'd like to shoot the ball before the end of the game. And then at the end of the game in overtime, Miami went up 134 to 129 with 10 seconds to go in the game. It's a five-point lead. You know, there's still a chance down five with 10 seconds to go.

I mean, you don't have a great chance, but it's a two-positions. possession game. Yes. You get it down there with some urgency, get up a shot. Get up a shot. Get a a quick foul. You know, after trying for a steal. Who knows? Yeah. So the ball gets brought up the court and pass to Beal on the wing. And he's dribbling the ball around

looking for to make a pass. And makes the pass to Davos Bertanz who catches it and fires up the shot with about three seconds to go. It hits the rim. You know, by the time it comes off the rim and it's a miss, the game's over. I'm just I'm watching this. I'm like,

Are you trying to lose? Maybe that's the goal last night. Like we played real competitively, but, you know, Beal had the thing last week where he went off a little bit, wants to be on a good team, wants them to compete better, all of that. He doesn't get a shot up at the end of regulation, and then in overtime just sort of dribbles the clock out to a certain degree without trying to win down five.

I think this is the kind of an organization led by Business of Happiness himself. they really tend to build up some of the people that they have into things that they're not. Really? I had no idea. And to that extent, they're very hesitant to sort of make them accountable or be critical or really coach them. You know, Scott Brooks is a player's coach. I like Scott Brooks a lot. But he's not, he's not.

But I guarantee you, I guarantee you one of the reasons they didn't want Randy around is because Randy, would have to let him have it. Something would have happened there. They keep talking about changing the culture. Okay? This is not the coach you want to change the culture. He can score though, man. Beale can really score.

He is a tough, tough check. I mean, you cannot deny that. If you've watched him, this is a year in which he is really taken, and of course, he's also the number one option, clearly, as he was last year, without Wall when Wall wasn't playing. But there's something about his game.

He's physically more mature now. He's more aggressive. He gets to the rim. He's got, he closes near the rim. He's got a lot to his offensive game. He really does. I just can't believe in some of those situations how clueless he appears to be. Here's what I can't believe.

Can you find Ted's game plan for life again and read them? You mean the tweet that he put out? If you could find that for me again, I'd appreciate it. Hold on. I'll have it here for you in a second. Now, I mean, I'm kind of curious about it. Hydrate, 72 ounces per day. 10,000 steps minimum per day.

Seven hours of sleep times seven days, 49 hours per week, a sleep bank to zero budget. No devices near bed, 70 degrees in room, no sugar pass 6 p.m. No social media. 8 p.m. read 50 books per year. No empty thought calories. What do you think Beal was going through?

Did he have an empty thought last night? Well, here's my question to you. For one thing, for Ted, isn't watching the Wizards part of your game plan for life? Yes. Wouldn't you put there on there somewhere, watching the Wizards? I guess maybe you know what that qualifies as?

Empty calorie thoughts. That's what that qualifies. So my question to you is, why do you continue to watch? I don't watch every game like I used to. Not this year. This year it's really not worth it. I mean,

I mean, it's getting in the way of you reading the 50 books that you need or your sleep. You know what? I would ask him, you know, not everybody, a lot of people have to work. A lot of people have long days.

Do you want them to watch your hockey and basketball team or read a book instead? That's a good point. And I would ask. It's hard to fit it all in. And I would ask him this. I would hope on his list of 50 books would be Hale, victory, the oral history of the Washington Redskins.

It's available on Amazon for a nickel. You can get it for a nickel. I would hope that would be on his list, at least, at the very least. It is good advice. All of these things are several of these things I've actually been trying to do, the steps per day, the hydrating per day, the sleep. Sleep's really impossible. Anybody that's got to get up early for work, and I'm one of those people, I have to get up very

early for work. It's hard, especially if you're a sports fan and you want to watch the teams that Ted owns. Yes. It's hard to get seven hours to sleep. That is hard to do. I don't understand this. Personally, I don't mind when it's 45 degrees in my room. I, during the winter, like doors and windows open. Now, it doesn't go over well with my spouse and with other people in the house, but I like sleeping in a cold room. But 70 degrees. I like, I like, no sugar past 6 p.m. It's hard. You're tell me that he hasn't had, you know, an ice cream cone at Capital One Arena. He looks pretty good. He looks pretty good. He looks pretty good. He's lost a lot of weight. He actually looks, well, he looks so good that he doesn't look that good. You know what I'm saying?

Like the head is the biggest part of his body, but he's clearly lost a lot of weight. You know, I mean, the 70 degree thing I kind of appreciate and agree with, because I sleep in the nude. So, I mean, no, you don't. What do you mean? No, I don't. I know you don't. Yes, I do. Well, I don't know.

Yeah, how would you know? But there's no chance that you sleep in the news. As God is my witness. I can see you in a t-shirt. Last night, I slept in the dude. Did you really? Of course I do. Well, that's because you're by yourself right now.

Yes. That's right. Liz is out of town. Yeah. All right. So let's, real quickly. And the sugar thing is easy for me. You don't eat sugar.

Yeah, because I cut out soda a year ago. Yeah, I don't drink soda. So I don't drink coffee. I don't drink soda. I don't eat sweet. So the sugar thing's easy for me. I think I need to cut back on, definitely I should be cutting back on coffee. I think I have, on average, three cups of coffee a day.

But I think there's some kind of, there's a study. Coffee can be good for you. Yeah. It can. Now, you know, I am not a black coffee. guy, that's really healthy for you. I always go a little bit of milk, usually like skim milk and maybe a half of one sugar, I'll put in there.

But I do drink a lot of coffee. And tea. I drink a lot of tea too. Next podcast, I want you to come up with your seven steps for better living, and I'll come up with mine. Well, I can tell you what number one would be. Right now, don't gamble. That would be my number one. I don't think so.

No, gambling. Gambling is fun. My number, see, you know what? Seriously, for this guy, Booky Ted? Yes, that's right. Ace Rothstein. Yeah, I mean, all of these things are great, Ted. I should reply and don't gamble.

That would be the best thing. Because he doesn't understand how lethal it is and how dangerous it is. And it's, well, whatever. Zion Williamson last night, I turned the TV off at the end of the third quarter. I'm like, this wasn't worth watching. He had five points. He didn't look like he was really ready. And I was sort of expecting, I wasn't expecting, you know, much more. And then I missed the 17 points in a row in the fourth quarter with that building. And you know, New Orleans is not a basketball town. No, I've told you before how invisible the pelicans are down there.

But that place was packed and it was wild. Have you watched the highlights of him knocking down each shot? Yes, I have. First of all, they didn't guard them. The four three pointers, on three of them, No one's within six feet of them. And on the last one, Lamarcus Aldridge is sort of running at him, but not really defending it. So when he scored a 17th point, which was a free throw to cut the lead to one, San Antonio went down on the other end, scored New Orleans called a timeout with five minutes and 23 seconds left in the game. He has scored 17 consecutive points for his team. He came out of the game, and he never went back into the game.

Load management, baby. It's load management. It's minutes restriction right now on him. I mean, that had to be frustrating if you were, you know, a Pelicans fan. You're in the game. You cut a big lead down to three because of him. And you're probably sitting there going, oh, well, he's going to come back. He's just getting a quick rest.

Never came back into the game. Yeah, Pelicans fans, they need to count every minute they can of Zion Williamson because as soon as he can be out the door, he's out the door. Well, it's going to be a few years. So they're going to, they should value every minute. minute they get of them. So, you know, last year at this time, he was really the reason that college basketball had a bit of a renaissance, you know, it sort of came back a little bit in terms of being popular once again in the regular season, Tommy, last year. Remember, college basketball's

been a March sport for a long time now. Yeah. And last year, people were paying attention to Duke and Zion Williamson. Oh, yeah. From the start. People outside of college basketball. No doubt. And he was clearly the most, he was the most visible and the most anticipated draft pick in his NBA debut since LeBron. It's not an exaggeration to say that. And so it took a while because he got injured in the preseason. But there's been a lot of debate about him as to whether or not he's going to be great. I loved John Morant. And we had the conversation on the podcast last year. And I said, like, I think I would take John Morant if I had the number one pick. And he's playing very well as a rookie.

But I'm watching him last night, and man, there is something about him. He is he's 280 pounds, but he's so quick. He's got a second jump that is as immediate and as explosive as any you'll ever see. He does look and play a little bit like Barclay, you know, when you're thinking about somebody who's 6'6 and that big and strong, but he's really super athletic. Like I'm actually really interested to see what kind of player he turns into. He's got to stay healthy. And, you know, he didn't last year at Duke for the entire season.

And he's already been injured as a rookie. But he's going to be an exciting player to watch. And, you know, a lot of these younger players, you know, because it's not going to be LeBron here for that much longer, even though he's really good. But anyway, that's enough on Zion Williamson, unless you got something else. You didn't watch it.

I didn't watch it either. I turned it off. But I did watch the highlights. Right. I'll watch the highlights. So, yeah, anything else? I got nothing else on Zion Williamson. I would hope, I would like to see, I love New Orleans,

so I would like to see the Pelicans become relevant. I know. I'd like to see, I would have loved to have seen Anthony Davis stay there and been a teammate of Zion Williamson. Such a great city. It really is. It's such a great city. All right, quick word about mybooky.ag.

Then we'll get to a few more topics today, including some Redskins news that Tommy hasn't had a chance to weigh in. on nor have I from yesterday when we missed the podcast. MyBooky.ag is a great place to bet if you're looking for a place to bet. Be careful if you're going to wager on sports and you're going to jump into that world. You've got to be careful. Moderation, Tommy, that should have been part of Ted's advice. Do everything, but do it with moderation.

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All right. Yesterday we didn't do a podcast, but we really did talk a lot about Morgan Wooten, Tommy, on the Tuesday show. And we went through our experiences with Morgan and a lot about Morgan's life when it was announced that he was being taken home to be cared for by hospice,

and he passed away, as most of you know, by now, on Tuesday night. We won't do that today if you missed sort of our discussion. And we had a lengthy conversation about Morgan. You can just go back to Tuesday's show. Obviously, our prayers are with all of the family and our sympathies go out to the family. I had Pete Strickland on the show, on the radio show yesterday. Pete was a player for Morgan, a coach for Morgan, a longtime college coach in multiple places.

And Pete's always been a really good storyteller and a really good memory bank for everything that is Morgan Wooten. Absolutely. Because he was there for so much of it. And I think he either said it or a caller said it that Morgan and Jack Bruin are up in heaven starting a basketball camp right now. And he had an incredible life, you know, an incredible life. I looked for yesterday when I got home, I looked for, because I have some of those lunch with a legend broadcast that we did, I couldn't find the Morgan one. It might be somewhere in my house. I was looking for it because I wanted to listen to it.

because it was really good. Yes. I did find the Sonny Jurgensen one. So I'm going to be able to make a copy of that to give to you because you wanted to have that. So I did find that one and I found a couple of the others. But I couldn't find the one for Morgan. I'll keep looking though.

But anyway, what a life. What an impact on just so many people. And as we talked about the other day, it wasn't just the players or the coaches. It was his students. And a lot of people like me who went to his camps. and Morgan Wooten had really, you know, a basketball camp, summer camp that became so important to so many people in this area

that loved basketball and played basketball. And I can't tell you the stories that we talked about and the stories I talked about on radio yesterday about that camp, how many hundreds of tweets I got in text messages from people I know, you know, sharing the same stories of having participated in Morgan Wooten's summer basketball camp. It was Morgan Wooten and Joe Gallagher, the great coach. from St. Johns as well. You know, that you forget, but, you know, in your formative years, when you're young,

you know, you have these experiences, whether it's coaches or teachers or, you know, that some, you just remember so many things about that experience. And all of us that went to that camp, and I'm sure his players have countless more, obviously, stories, but it was influential. It made an impact. You just don't see, you don't see anywhere anybody have, an impact as far as he did, as far as wide as he did, by staying home. You know, it's like basically the local hardware store that the whole country knows about

that never became Home Depot. They never branched out. They never, they never, he never went to coach at a big time college program. He was a high school coach in the same place, his entire career, and had such an impact that it was nationwide, but he never left. I mean, that's so rare. Yeah. Somebody asked me the other day to tell the story that I've told before, the story about being at that camp and being coached by Derek Wittenberg. Do you remember me telling you this story? Yes. It went, it's been a while since I told it, right? Yes. Oh,

a long time. Okay, so I'll tell it real quickly. So at one of those summer camps, I mean, I don't know, I'm 12 years old, maybe, something like that. Derek Wittenberg is a senior, going into a senior year at DeMatha. He's one of the best high school players in America. Ended up going to NC State was on their national championship team. But the story is this, Tommy. That camp, you get placed on a team, and one of the people who coach you are the players at St. Johnson, DeMath.

They're the counselors. And Derek Wittenberg was my coach. And we went, they set up the camp where you would have. have a first half and a second half, and then the two half champions would play each other on the final day of camp for the championship. The first half was the first week. The second week was the second week of camp. We went 0 in 10 in the first half of the season.

And then midway through camp, a guy shows up from New Jersey. His name was Brent. I cannot remember his last name for the life of me. But Brent was really good, and so they put Brent on our team. We were 0 in 10. And in the second half, we were, you know, we were. went nine and one because Brent was awesome. You know, Brent was like, you know, I don't know, I forget how old. I was probably 12 or 13 and Brent's already like 6'4 and he's dominant. And so on the

last day of camp, Tommy, we had to play a playoff game with the other team that went 9 and 1 in the second half to advance to the championship game later on that day. And the playoff game was held right at the beginning of camp. And the whole gym was watching. Everybody in camp, was watching. And Brent from New Jersey, we had the ball at midcourt two seconds to go down by a point. I throw it into him and he heaves up a half court shot and it banks in at the buzzer and we win the game. Look at me while I'm telling you this story. I need some facial feedback here. You're in your phone like you're ignoring me. I'm doing some research to respond. Well, but while I'm talking, look at me.

My God. Okay, dear. Okay, dear. This is what I've had to deal with over the year. Sometimes I'm telling a story and I look over at Tom and he's got his glasses off and he's got his phone right up to his eyes like he's not paying attention at all. I'm sorry, honey. Okay. Okay.

So anyway, we win the second half. We lost later that day in the championship game. That was the story from 1980 or whatever year. year it was, 1979. So fast forward, 30 years later. This is 10 years ago, something like that. I'm at Mazza Gallery on Christmas Eve, and I'm walking around and out of one of the stores walks Derek Wittenberg. And I noticed him and I said, Derek Wittenberg. And he said, yeah. And I went up to him and I said, my name's Kevin Sheehan. I said, you'll never remember. You coached me. You know, he probably gets that from, you know, how many different people.

And I said, it was such a great experience. I'll never forget it. We had this guy on the team, and he came in halfway through camp, and, you know, we were playing for, you know, to get into the championship, and he just stops me, mid-sentence. And he goes, Brad. Was it Brad? And I said, I think it was Brent.

I think his name was Brent. He said, when he hit the half-court shot at the buzzer, and I said, yes. And I'm thinking of myself, oh my God, that's Derek Wittenberg who won a national championship at NC State, right? And it goes to show you that even that camp impacted him. It also really goes to show you that you never forget a half-court shot at the buzzer, you know, to win a championship. And he said, didn't we win the championship? I said, no, we actually just got us into the championship and we lost later that day. Anyway, we ended up, we sat there and we talked for 15 minutes.

but like you just those are the stories that you know you came out of that particular camp that one though was for me like that was crazy that he that somebody like him would remember that okay I'm glad I'm glad I stopped looking at my phone and looked up at you so that wasn't a good story no it's a it's a good story it's an excellent it's better story than I've got it had I told you that story before I had not heard that story did you think it was a good story it was a decent story. Was he looking at you when you were saying it? Was Aaron looking into your eyes?

Aaron had some of the same qualities you have. He's in his phone the entire time during this show. Let me ask you a question because I was doing some research. Ask me a question. This better be good with all the research you were doing during my story. What if Morgan Wooten had coached University of Maryland? How different would things have been? I don't know.

Lefty told me the story once. that when he was being interviewed by Jim Kehoe. Yes. Yeah. Who was the athletic? Kehoe was the AD. Yeah, the AD at the time. Basically, he said, this is what Lefty said for quote.

Kehoe said, we want you, you're the guy we want, but I've got to know tonight. Lefty said, coach, I just got knocked out at a final four when he was at David's. Elite eight, yeah. He said Final Four. He said, Keio said, you do what you want to do, but you're going to make a decision tonight. He said, you and Joyce go downstairs. The bed is all made up for you. Lefty stayed at his house that night and spend the night.

But when you wake up in the morning, you've got to give me your answer or we'll hire Morgan Wooten. Yeah. Morgan told us that story. I mean, how different would history have been? I mean, everything in basketball in this town would have been differently. it would have been different. No lefty, Morgan Wooten, not at DeMatha for, we're talking 35, 40 years. I think Morgan told us the story in that lunch with a legend that either he was coming back from that Alhambra tournament in Cumberland or on his way or whatever,

but he was under the impression that he was going to get the job. Yeah. You know, and then he was told that they were going to hire Lefty because Lefty decided to take it. Yeah. Because there was a little bit more money than he was making at Davidson. And remember, they sold him, Kehoe sold them on, it's going to be you, Ted Williams, and Vince Lombardi is the three new coaches in town. And he was right.

That was a sales pitch. All three of those coaches came in in 1969. Yeah. The other interesting Morgan Wooten thing is he was offered the NC State job before Jim Valvano. Yes, he was. And they wanted him. Norm Sloan had retired. Norm Sloan won a national championship at NC State.

Norm Sloan didn't retire. He actually took the job at Florida. And I remember at the time, Norm Sloan said the pressure of the ACC's too much. I'm going to go coach at Florida where they care about football first, pretty much. And he was offered that job, and Morgan didn't take it. Morgan always said the only job that he really would never have turned down was the Maryland job. That was his dream job, and he never got offered it. No.

And that was the closest it came because it never came close when lefty, you know, was ushered out in the wake of the Lenn-Bias death. Because Chancellor Slaughter at the time decided, you know, to make a unilateral hire, and he went to Baltimore and hired Bob Wade from Dunbar. And a lot of people at that moment wanted Morgan to take over the job. I don't know what kind of college coach he would have been. I'm sure he would have been a really good college coach. And a massive winner in college, too. I think he would have been. But he has such a unique legacy at Damatha High School.

school. I don't know if there's a coach in the country that really has that kind of a legacy. Staying at home at the local high school for all those years. Well, I think there are a lot of those high school lifers, but not with his profile. Not with his national profile. That's right. Yeah, I think that's the big difference, right? Is that probably every city. Well, how many coaches like that are in the basketball Hall of Fame? There's just three high school basketball coaches. in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. But the, you know, every town, every city has probably a lifer high school coach that is a

legend in that area. But nobody with the national profile of Morgan and Demacher. We had a football coach in my town that coach there for 50 years. And he impacted a lot. He impacted me and I didn't even play football. So, but he's not known outside of that region. you know, nobody, nobody's ever heard of them outside that region. So, I mean, Morgan is, it's, I mean, like I said, you know, you talked about the people who, he came to speak at his camp.

National superstars. NBA, you know, champions. Yes. Yeah, I mean, you know, there was, there was a great football coach for many years in this town, and it was Bob Malloy. You know, Bob Malloy is one of the winningest football coaches. the history of high school football. You know, Malloy, who, you know, last coached a good counsel, but he's a well-known national coach as well.

It speaks to just how many great coaches and how great high school sports are in this area, and really that league in particular, as we've talked about before. So one other quick thing that I would have talked about yesterday that Aaron and I probably just want to talk about briefly, and you'll find interesting because, I'll be to judge it at. Mark Turgeon did something the other night in Maryland's comeback win at Northwestern that I have not seen him do.

And, Aaron, I don't even know if this got a lot of discussion yesterday. I talked about it on radio. So they were getting their ass kicked in the first half at Northwestern. This would have been an ugly loss. And the Maryland fan base, of course, you know, on Twitter just all over him. I mean, relentless. Like, this is it. He's done.

You lose that Northwestern. Well, a couple of things real quick. Northwestern is better than I thought. I watched, that's the first time I've seen him play. They got a kid, Spencer, Aaron, who was a four-year lacrosse player, Loyola. Yeah, he almost, he thought about going to Maryland. They didn't take him. I wish they had.

He can play. And in watching Northwestern, you could see that they've got some players. They nearly beat Illinois. They nearly beat Indiana. They had a chance against Michigan State. They've been really close. And they were up 14 against Maryland at halftime. And it was ugly.

And Turgeon did something in the second half that I have not seen him do. He is very much, Tommy, a micromanaging kind of coach. He likes every half-court possession to have an organized set, a play called, some sort of offense being run, even though sometimes I'm not a big fan of some of what they try to do, especially against Zone. In the second half, I'm sitting there watching, and I'm like, wow, he's been a big fan. basically running what we call in sort of travel AAU basketball, five-out offense. And it's the easiest, you know, you have a couple of rules, but all five players are basically

outside of the three-point line. You got no low-post threat. Nobody's in the middle of the floor. And you let your playmakers play. You let them make plays. You know, you get Anthony Cowan going downhill. You know, occasionally there's a couple of screen and roll or pick-and-pops with Stick Smith and Anthony Cowan, especially late in that game. was and it worked because right now Jalen Smith is probably their best three-point shooter. Wiggins got it going the other night. But he did something that was to me very uncharacteristic of Mark Turgeon who really likes to be in control. Even though I would personally disagree sometimes with some of the stuff they do run, he wants to run stuff. He wants to micromanage every offensive

possession. Now they've run more this year and they've scored more in transition. especially earlier in the year. Second half, five out, make plays. Anthony, Aaron, make plays, take shots. Don't worry about it. Let's play loose. Let's see what happens. And what happened was their most productive half of the season.

They scored 51 points. They shot it confidently. There was no hesitation. They weren't running plays where they were passing on shots because the thought is the offense and what they're running is going to get a better shot, you know, and make the defense work a little bit harder. They've got talent, and he let the talent spread it out and just go.

And Anthony Cowan, forget his stats. He was two for ten. He made play after play after play. Aaron Wiggins made plays. Iala made plays. He played basically six guys in the second half. That was it. DeCow would even come out in the second half.

I don't even know if he came out. I don't think so. If it was, it was just very briefly. There were some criticism about that. He played him too much. I don't buy into that, though. I didn't. I don't know.

If I was looking for his press conference on YouTube yesterday, there wasn't one, so they must not have taped it. Because I wanted to hear if he talked about that. But it was a real change in his philosophy. So should this be a philosophy moving forward? Well, I think you do. I think the players, you know, at times, look like they're trying to run stuff the way he wants it run. They're well scouted. It's a league that scouts well.

It ends up more times than not in an uncomfortable situation. Look, he runs a lot of good stuff too. He does. And anybody that thinks otherwise, you guys are wrong. But I just thought, you know, Tommy, I see that at the youth level a lot because you don't have a lot of practice time. And so there are certain things you can run without a lot of practice. You know, five out, a couple of rules you have in terms of the spacing and in terms of

movement and then if you really need something you get a high ball screen with the floor spread out and that's basically what they did and these guys were making plays and they were making plays and they looked very comfortable and they were shooting in rhythm and the ball was moving i mean you want to move the ball the ball wants to move or should move but um yeah i think i i would think if he did that intentionally that the results would make him think you know what i need my guys to play confidently and they looked confident playing that way. Okay, let me ask you this. This is the way these kids were raised.

A lot of them. A lot of them were raised to play that way. Anthony Cowen was really coached well. The St. John's coach at the time, who's an I-M-G now was an excellent coach. For the most part, this is how they were raised. What's going to best serve you in the second half of the tournament

against a Michigan State team? Well, you've got to do both of those things. You need to do what suits your talent. the best. That's what you need to do. There are teams, I'm sure, I mean, I've seen some of his teams that haven't been extraordinarily talented that, you know, need, you know, a slower pace, more structure, the whole thing. What I watched in the first half the other night was an attempt to run, their zone offense was terrible when Northwestern was in zone.

And then the man stuff, it just seemed like it was scouted well. It was resulting in, you know, four shots, hesitant, hesitant shots. and I wouldn't have thought to do what he did in the second half and never would have thought he would have done it. But they also got a little bit of a break because Northwestern didn't play as much zone in the second half. They weren't sagging as much, especially when Wiggins and they started to knock down some shots,

so they were out and it allowed the floor to sort of open up a little bit. I don't know what the right answer is. I think the right answer, you know, still with them more times than not, is play really good defense and see if you can turn. your good defense into easy offense. But it's hard to do that in the Big Ten. The Big Ten, very few teams let you just fast break. It's a tough league.

It's a tougher league than the ACC. Oh, much tougher, top to bottom right now. And it was last year, too. I think it's going to be one of those years, and I know people are going to think that I am way too optimistic, that when these teams get out of the Big Ten and get into the tournament, at least the first game or two, it's going to seem easy. It's going to seem much easier.

They're really being prepared, I think, for March. I could be wrong. They could get 10 teams in and just two go to the sweet 16 or three go to the sweet 16. But I think that the grinded, you know, tough, physical, very good defensive league, very well-scouted league and well-coached league, I think that Maryland and some of these teams are going to have it a little bit easier in March, at least for the first two rounds, you know, unless they just get, you know, a terrible matchup or have a terrible night, which of course is always a possibility in the tournament.

But I was really impressed with what he did in the second half and what we, and beating Northwestern is not like, you know, oh my God, what a big win on the road. But it was a win on the road and it would have been a terrible loss. Yeah, it's what would have, what if, the alternative. Right. Would have been far more disastrous than the benefit of winning. I think that's true. I'm excited about the game.

The cost of losing would have been far. more than the profit of winning. I'm excited about the game Sunday, Aaron, at Indiana. It's the one place Maryland has not won yet in the Big Ten as a Big Ten member. They won there in an ACC Big Ten game several years ago when they were an ACC member. They went to Bloomington and won at Assembly Hall. They have not won there as a Big Ten team. Indiana plays Michigan State tonight.

So that's a huge game for Indiana and for Michigan State. Michigan State's in first place. They've only lost once. And so maybe Maryland will catch them coming off that with shorter rest. But it would be huge for Maryland to go in there win on Sunday. And then is the game after that Iowa at home? Yeah, that's a Thursday night game, I think. That's starting to look like a huge game in league.

I'm going to that game. That'll be the first game that the students are back for. Iowa's going to be ranked in the top 15 more likely than not. Maryland is going to be no worse than where they are now, even if they lose Sunday more likely than that, they could be a couple of spots below. If they win on Sunday, they could really take a jump,

you know, well, easily into the top 15. And that'll be a big time matchup in the league because the league is still sort of open. You know, Michigan State looks really good. They've got one loss, but they played a ton of home games, and their toughest games are still to come. But anyway, all right, that's enough on that.

You want to get to a Redskins topic? Yeah, I'm kind of curious. what it is that you're, because I haven't noticed. I wanted to talk with the stadium thing first. Okay. The report that came out yesterday. In the post. Yes, in the post about Dan Snyder meeting with Maryland legislators

and suggesting that if they legalize sports betting, and it can be available at his new stadium, that the stadium would go at the FedEx Field site, which is what you've been predicting now for a while, is that no other jurisdiction will have him, and that if he does build, it'll be on the site where the stadium exists now. Yeah. Now, again, this, you know, I'm not telling you that's what I know.

I'm just basically telling you that that's the way that the politics add up in this. And I'm more convinced than ever that it's dead in the district. I mean, it really is. Why? Because of Jack Evans? That's a big part of it. It was 50-50 with Jack Evans. I spoke to somebody who's very plugged in in the district recently.

And say for the mayor, there's just no sentiment for. Plus that neighborhood, the opposite, the pushback they're getting from people in that neighborhood is so strong, so strong against a Redskins Stadium. No matter what the poll of fans say, the people who live around the stadium, and that neighborhood has changed a lot from the last time they played football at RFK. It's a much nicer neighborhood. Yeah, and they know how to mobilize. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of lobbyists, politicians and work and political workers who live. in that neighborhood now.

Right. And they know how to fight these things. So I just think the district is all but pretty much dead. I never took Virginia seriously for a number of reasons. You know, and I just think he's like Cook. Like we talked about before, Jack Kent Cook had three Super Bowls and people like Cook. And he couldn't get the stadium built he wanted in the district. He couldn't get the stadium built he wanted in Virginia.

he had to settle for the location where they are now because he wanted to get it built before he died. Right. And it turns out he didn't get it finished before he passed away. So, uh, you dog, you dog, you.

Tommy was talking, so I took my phone and just put it up and blocked my face so he didn't see me. That's what he does to me all the time. You see, it's easier for me because I fully expect Kevin's not listening. I always listen. I just operate under the premise that Kevin's not listening. A serious question.

Who's a better listener? You really believe it? Oh, 100%. Oh, my God. It's not even close. Oh, my God, I can't tell you how many times you've said something that I had just said five minutes before. It's same. Same goes for you.

The only thing I will say is that I have asked a question of a guest as a follow-up that you had already asked, but you've done the same thing to me too. You know what? When you're doing what we do, and it shouldn't apply to a podcast because it isn't live. Right. But when you do what we do live, there is a lot of, while the other person's talking, all right, I had this thought and I'm looking at you trying to figure it out. Yeah. You're trying to think of your next move. Well, it's the next move, but also sometimes you'll say something and I'll be like, is that true? And I'll start looking it up or try to look up something that, you know, will add to whatever it is you're saying.

But anyway. You know, I'm telling you. Is it going to end up in Landover? I don't know. I think so. What's hilarious was Snyder saying, I'll come if you legalize sports betting, and if you don't, I'll go to Virginia.

They must have had a laugh over that one. Well, I mean, first of all, we're talking about a new stadium opening in 2027 at the earliest, and that's if they move quickly. Right. And they'll probably be legalized. Sports betting is going to be legal in Maryland by then? Sure.

It's probably going to be legalized on the ballot this year. I mean, so what was he really trying to do? I mean, I think he's trying to flex what muscles he thinks he has. Whatever. And, you know, if you're saying going to Virginia, I'm sure they probably said, hey, have a good time. I think it is more interesting that he's now the new point person on this. If he wasn't before, if Bruce was.

Well, part of the problem in the district is Jack Evans, and Bruce Allen worked very closely together. Okay. I mean, they, that was, I mean, not that it was getting, it was, it was going to, you know, gain that much momentum. Right. But that was the, basically the bridge. It was Jack Evans and Bruce Allen.

And now both of them are gone. So it's a start over for him. So it doesn't surprise me that he's taken the point on this because there is nobody, obviously, that could do it. And this is part of the problem is nobody politically wants to stand on the stage with Dan Snod. and say, yeah, we're going to help them build a stadium. Now, when I talk about, when everyone talks about building a stadium, nobody is talking about paying for a stadium.

Right. It's said to build the stadium. It's about the land. It's about the, and the infrastructure around it. It's like somebody just told me the other day. It's everything that's underground and everything that's above ground, the owner's going to have to pay for it no matter where he goes. Also, you do have to talk about all of the development around the stadium. Yes.

Retail, residential, etc. Yeah, but no one's going to build a finance a stadium for Dan Snyder. He's going to have to pay for it. Is there enough room at that location to build the stadium and also keep FedEx Field up, the stadium up and have them playing in that stadium while the new ones being built like the Meadowlands? I think they would have to make parking accommodations beyond what they have. Right. And create a shuttle system to move people back and forth on the temporary parking that would take place.

but they have the space. Because one of my first thoughts was, if they build it there, where are they going to play for two years? But then somebody said, there's enough room there to do with the Meadowlands did. But, you know, people started saying,

well, you know, they could, I don't know if they could sell out Audi Field, but they certainly could play at Audi Field. 20,000 people. No, I think, yeah, they could. You're right, they could.

But I think they could build it right next to Ghost Town Field there. And anyway, that's going to change. Because Ron Rivera, here. Yes. So all that's going to change. It's going to change. And there was some news this morning late yesterday, Barry's Rulugas column

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That's Stamps.com promo code, Kevin D.C. Now, let me tell you something. I listened to that. I know you did. Okay. You did. You're always very much in tune to our sponsors on this show. So Barry's Ruluga wrote this column about how the whole Gibbs Rivera thing came together.

And I'll net it out. I'm going to read some of the quotes in the story, but the netting of it out is that, first of all, Gibbs and Rivera did not know each other prior to November, December timeframe this year. They'd never had a conversation. Snyder reached out to Rivera first, and Rivera called Gibbs, and Gibbs invited them over, and they had a long conversation. And Gibbs basically did the nostalgic thing, you know, talking about how great the Redskins are. How great it can be. How great it can be. The Lombardi trophies, the fans, and how into it they are.

He also talked about what it was like to work for Dan. And I'll start it there. He said to Rivera, what I tried to tell him is what it was like with Dan for me. Quote, Dan for me, when it was free agency, it's 12.01 a.m. when the period legally opens, Dan's right by my side on the phone. Dan is very successful with agents. They want to talk to him. They know he'll make a deal.

He's not afraid to spend money. and so I kind of tried to just give Rivera the real understanding of what it's like to work with Dan. And he had said earlier in the column, he said, we had four years together. It developed a real relationship because we went through a lot of highs and lows together, all the things that can go on for a coach and owner. We develop that friendship. So when we talk, it's mostly a common sense conversation. he would kind of relate to me

what some of the people that he was really interested in and that led to Rivera and then Rivera is the one that reached out to Gibbs. But he said, look, when we talk, it's his friends, I'm not a paid consultant. I do think it's fair and applicable to this conversation

just to remind everybody that Dan Snyder is a regular contributor to Joe Gibbs' big time charity youth for tomorrow and has been for a long time. Right. And so I also think it's fair to say that Joe Gibbs' experience with Dan Snyder was far different than any other coach's experience. Both those things are correct. And so if Rivera just reached out to find out about what it was like to work for the Redskins and for Dan Snyder from Joe Gibbs, I think that was a mistake.

I think he should have talked to a lot of other people. I would. And I'm not suggesting that he didn't. I do know that he did not reach out to Mike Shanahan, that he did not have a conversation, to taking the job with Mike. I don't know who his agent is, but it literally would be malpractice not to have given your client. You know, you should do this.

You should talk to these people. Now, you can choose not to do it. But there's no excuse for going into this job without your eyes open. There's more than enough information out there about what it's really like. And it's not all made up. up stuff. It's the same. It's the same stuff. Say for Gibbs, save for this little oasis of, of non-term oil, it's all pretty much the same. So there's no, I mean, there's no excuse for Rivera to have taken this job and be surprised at anything he'll have to deal with down the line.

I would assume that one of the conversations he had was with Norv Turner at some point, don't you think? Yeah. But Norv Turner's experience. with the owner was not a good one, but it could also be chalked up to he was a new owner and he was 34 years old. Right. But, but, I mean, you see, the next step in that would be he's matured since then, but he hasn't. Right. He hasn't gotten better.

He may be different, but the issues are still the same. Like, Norve's experience was right. It was a small window. You know, it wasn't that, and, you know, he was, that was his first time as the owner. Look, I don't know what Norv told. Ron Rivera. You know, I... Obviously, Norve told his son that, you know, you're good.

Norve told his son that Ron... Because Ron's there. Ron will protect you. And if you want to be a head coach, this is the quickest way to do it. An offensive coordinator job. And if you're good at, if the team is good for a couple years, in three years, you'll be a head coach. Right.

So that's the path to do it. So there's another, there's just another part of it. By the way, Gibbs also said that he had not... never, he didn't have any conversations about Bruce Allen with Dan Snyder. He said all of the conversations have been about coaching essentially. That was just an added thing. So one of the things that I think is just interesting to sort of just think about is if as a fan, which I am and you're not, like, what do I think about Joe Gibbs having so much influence

at this point? He's 79 years old. He's been out of football since 2000. So 12 years, you know, out of it. He, you know, waxed nostalgic and very wistful in his conversation with Ron Rivera about all of the glory days, which are now so long ago that, you know, it's not unusual anymore to have conversations with people who say, really? They were good. Like, you know, a lot of people. I mean, a lot of younger people.

and that his experience was probably far different than every other coach's experience that was here. You know, how do Redskin fans, how should they feel about that? My personal view is Joe's a winner and Joe's biggest strength over the course of a long period of time professionally in two different sports where he is a Hall of Famer

in both of them. And he's always said this, is picking people. He's always been really good at identifying, the kind of people that can contribute to a winning organization. And so from that standpoint, whether he's clueless as to how it is now, which he might be a little bit as to how people really feel about the team now and how bad it's really gotten and what Dan really is and has been with other people. I bet you he's not completely naive to what it's been like with other coaches.

He can't be. It can't be. But with all that said, it doesn't mean that Joe Gibbs is going to pick a bad person, that he's going to suggest a person that isn't going to be, you know, a guy that can win somewhere anyway, hopefully here. I mean, I still want Joe Gibbs if he's willing to give advice to the owner. The owner doesn't have anybody else. It's the one thing we've learned about Snyder when it comes to football, you know, advisors. There are not a lot of people apparently he's very close with. No. And if Gibbs is there, it's not a bad outlet. It's not a bad sounding board. If I'm a Redskine

fan. I'm happy about Joe Gibbs being a Dan Snyder confidon at this point. It's better than the alternatives. Completely agree. Yeah. So, I mean, if I'm a Redskins fan. Because one of those confidants has been Bruce Allen. Right. However flawed Joe's thinking may be sometimes in his perception of what the team is like now, I'd want Joe Gibbs to be part of that.

You know, by all, by all rights, Joe Gibbs should own the team. Yeah. I mean, you know, him and Sam Grossman were. two of the bidders back in that thing. And it's funny, he got beat out by Snyder, and now he's, he's one of Snyder's confidants. What do you think that relationship really is? Snyder and Gibbs?

I think it, I think it's good. I think, I think, I, I think it's as good as it can get for Dan Snyder. I think, I mean, look, again, if Dan Snyder didn't own the Redskins, no matter how rich he is, most people wouldn't care less about him. And, you know, I mean, I just think it's been beneficial for Joe Gibbs to have Dan Snyder as a friend.

What do you think he really and truly believes about what kind of owner Dan Snyder is? Because you can be friends and think highly of him as a person. What do you think he really thinks of him as an owner? I mean, Joe knows a winner from a loser. Yeah. That's a tough one. It's hard for me to think that Joe... You'll never get it out of Joe, ever.

It's not what he does. No. It's hard for any... It's hard for me to think anybody as smart as I think Joe Gibbs is to think that Dan Snyder's a good owner under any circumstances. Now, he talked about free agency. Now, that was the first time Joe experienced real free agency. Right.

So he was like a kid in the candy store. He was. You know? Yeah, he got sold a bill of goods by Vinny and Dan about how much... Look at how much... Look at how much fun this is. Yes. I mean, let's go get out of Marcholetta.

Yeah. You know, he was thinking about the days of Plan B free agency and all that. And so I think, you know, initially it was influenced by the fact that, wow, I can go out and get whatever player I want, you know? Yeah. I mean, you know, one of the reasons, I mean, it was health related in 1993 in March of 93 when he left football. but it was also a changing day too in football. Yes, it was. Was in its infancy, and the Redskins had an older team,

and they weren't going to have a hell of a lot of salary cap space in the new salary cap era. So he got out just in time, although, you know, Joe would have figured it out. I mean... Well, you know, the thing is, if Joe would have stayed, maybe Reggie White would have signed here with Washington. Maybe God would have told Reggie to sign in Washington. You know, and that could have been a game changer right there.

Yeah. I mean, because it was the... It was the Redskins or the Packers? It was. And he came very close to playing in Washington. But he wound up picking Green Bay. It's ironic. Reggie White, God bless his soul.

He went on to work with Joe Snyder, Joe Gibbs, on his racing team. Reggie created his own little racing team within Joe Gibbs Racing for minority drivers. Really? I met Reggie White. I went down to Joe Gibbs Racing once and did a story about Reggie White trying to create this, you know, minority. driving program through Joe Gibbs. I spent the day with Reggie White.

And what a fantastic, charismatic human being he was. Absolutely great to be around. Think about that. In 93, it was either the Redskins or the Packers. Packers were the bad franchise. And the Redskins were the big brand great franchise. And Washington, Washington was still Chocolate City. And Green Bay was Green Bay.

Yeah. Yeah. But Reggie picked the Packers. Big night on the town. You had to go a little south to Appleton. Yeah. So is it south? I don't even know if it's south of Green Bay.

I don't know. You probably sold groceries there. No, I've been to Green Bay before. I've never been to Green Bay. It was super value, I think it was. They were a big grocery wholesaler. But I remember that was the only time I've ever been to Green Bay. Never been to a Packers game at Lambo.

But Green Bay is right. it's like just north of it is green is water right I don't know so Appleton must either be east or west what's the map on your wall say I don't know anyway so and Kevin still has nothing on his walls here in this studio not a thing in other words like if Kevin had to leave town tomorrow because Interpol was looking for him there's nothing here in the studio that would indicate that he existed yeah my bookie

except the bobbleheads that I brought in. Right. Yeah, we had somebody snooping around here the other day. I don't know what they were doing, but I'm good. I got it. I got it. Just give me a couple weeks and maybe a few more weeks of playing some college basketball games. Let me get through the Super Bowl if that's okay with you. So Jason Lock and Forra, who I know you like, and I like Jason too. And gets an unbelievably bad rap from Redskins fan. I think so too. Because he was the first guy. He was the first to basically expose the Redskins for what

they were. Trust me, when I tell you, the post coverage before Jason Lockenforre was in Dan Snyder's pocket. Yeah, he was an excellent beat reporter when he covered the team and broke stories and, you know, they've had a couple of them since. I think Mike Jones was excellent. And let's just remember, when you

think, when you were ready to crucify Jason Locker for, because you don't think he's a good reporter, one name. Trent Williams. Yeah, he had that one. So he put out this story yesterday, projecting the 32 opening day starters for NFL teams in next September in 2020. And for the Redskins, he said that Derek Carr is going to be a starting quarterback. Wow.

Well, when Tom Brady signs with the Raiders, what's Derek Carr going to do? Well, actually, he's got Brady going to the Chargers. Philip Rivers going to the Buccaneers. James Winston to the Raiders. Derek Carr to the Redskins and Teddy Bridgewater to the Patriots. So those are the five key teams he's got involved. That's a pretty nervy, that's a pretty nervy, Kyle. That he calls the Brady effect.

You know, the immediate impact, five teams, the Chargers are going to sign Brady. Now, this is, you know, this is a January week, you know, the week without football. You've got to come up with some content. So I'll read you what he wrote, but I'll tell you why I wanted to bring it up, because I don't think Derek Carr will be the quarterback here, the starting. He did do I. In 2020. But he writes owner, Dan Snyder, loves first round picked Wayne Haskins,

but new coach Ron Rivera, who has already publicly hedged his bets. I don't know if he's really hedged his bets. He just hasn't said. He hasn't doubled down. He has not doubled down. But that doesn't mean that he's hedging off. He has not embraced. Hedging would be to say, yeah, we're looking at a couple of other veterans.

We've got a couple of other options here. And he hasn't really said that. Rivera's first hire, Lock and Forer, rights. Defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio is a champion of cars, and they went to the playoffs together with Carr an MVP candidate that year before he broke his leg, remember? And then they lost the playoff game. I forget who started that game at quarterback for the Raiders, but they lost at Houston. Alex Smith is still costing $19 million, but Snyder could restructure cars deal easily to bring his 2020 cap hit down to like $7 million, and it's a long shot that

Smith ever plays again. Cars contract is cheap enough to flip a down the road if need be. The first thing about this, if we're going to have a conversation about, you know, what the Redskins are going to do at quarterback is to say and to presume that Alex Smith isn't going to be a quarterback on this roster next year, that he's not going to be able to play in 2020. I think that's a fair bet or a fair assumption. I think that's the way you have to operate. I think you do. Now, you know, who knows? Like I was saying today on the radio show, there's a lot that's going to happen here. This is actually going to be a very interesting offseason. There's a lot of big decisions. And now that you've got some adults in the building,

it'll be interesting to see where they come down on a lot of these things. So on the quarterback front, if you don't have Alex Smith as a quarterback option next year, you have to sign a quarterback. They only have one under contract then. Now, they'll have two under contract with Alex Smith, but if he can't play, they'll only have one that can play, and that's Dwayne Haskins. So at the very least you need a cheap backup. And I would assume that's going to be a veteran backup of some sorts. But what if they do go out and sign a veteran that, you know, you could perceive coming in has a chance to win the job? What if they did sign Derek Carr or Teddy Bridgewater or Ryan Fitzpatrick or, you know, somebody that you would, you would think, ah, that's not Chase Daniel. That's not

re-signing Case Keenum. That's a guy that actually has a chance to start. I had this guy, Chad Forbes, who actually was excellent. Aaron, I think I told you about him the other day on the radio show. He is basically an NFL analyst. On Twitter, it's NFL draft bites. He does a lot on the draft and free agency in particular. And he said his guess was that the Redskins are going to go after somebody like Teddy Bridgewater, to come in to be the backup at the very least, but to provide some stiff competition.

And I said, won't Bridgewater get an opportunity to start? And at, you know, worst case, won't he just stay? in New Orleans until Breeze leaves. And he mentioned Taysam Hill and some of the other options. But what are they going to do a quarterback? Like I think Dwayne Haskins, if you made me bet right now, I would bet, I would say there's an 80% chance at Haskins is the opening day starter in 2020. But I don't know what they think about him.

I'm talking about the new people. I have no idea what they think about him. What do you think the most important thing is that Ron Rivera has to do to be successful with the Redskins? I'm going to answer that question for you. Go ahead. He has to be able to hold off the owner. There's no success without that. If they go into next season with a quarterback other than Dwayne Haskins,

that would be the greatest sign that he has held off. the owner. No doubt. That would be, now, how long he can hold him off depends on how successful Ron Rivera would be. I mean, if you do that, then you better win, you know, because then it'll come back to bite you. But if there's a starting quarterback other than Dwayne Haskins for opening day next year, then you should feel good about Ron Rivera's power in that building. Right. Now, whether or not he's right or not, time will tell. But I'm totally with you. I actually think we've sort of seen some indication already. That would be the biggest. The biggest. But no Kevin O'Connell, no Eric Schaefer, no Larry Hess, no Bruce Allen. I mean, I think Bruce

Allen was gone anyway, but he certainly had to go once Ron Rivera became a possibility. Yes. He's not going to take the job with Bruce here. So we've already seen some of what Ron Rivera, you know, has. You know, I mean, it's basically Carolina North. It is at this point Coach-centric. We know one-voice-one decision. Yeah. At least as of now, although you did see the story, right?

From J.P. Finley the other day that Dan interviewed Scott Turner. Did we talk about that on the podcast Tuesday or not? No. The part of who Scott Turner interviewed with was Dan Snyder. You didn't see that? No. Oh, look, I knew that would get your, you fired up a little bit. But Ron Rivera was then on the interview, right?

Well, I think Rivera spoke to him and then Turner met with Dan Snyder too. I don't find that on. Okay, good. I don't find that a problem. I didn't really think it was that much of the issue either. Yeah. I mean, for all we know, it was, hey, how's your dad doing? I remember you when you were running around here and ignore all the curse words I used on your father when he was here.

Yeah. You know, remember your father's friend, Mike Nolan and that story about the vanilla ice cream? Actually, I went in, put some hot fudge on it, and Mike and I sat down at 80. Actually, I apologize. I was leaving the ice cream for you, kid. I knew you liked ice cream. I knew you were hanging out with Uncle Mike. Mike. No, I don't have a problem with that.

Yeah. So the quarterback thing, you're right. It's going to be really interesting. And I mean, part of me really thinks that it would be best to bring in somebody that could compete with Dwayne Haskins. I think he's a competitor. I mean, I think the best case would be for Dwayne Haskins to feel like they're bringing in somebody to compete with him and for him to beat him out. You say that he's a competitor. But the biggest complaint about him at the beginning of the year was that he didn't want. work hard enough. He didn't study hard enough. All this. You can't be a competitor and have those qualities. From whom? Who did you hear that from? Who did we hear that from? We heard that from the coaching staff that was there. Yeah. The coaching staff that isn't there anymore. Right. Yeah. Oh, do you think they made it up? I just think a lot of that stuff was really

overblown. I think that the players themselves said the same way. Adrian Peterson. It was not a work ethic thing. That's not the right way to put it. He didn't study. He didn't know how and no one was really helping him to teach him on how to prepare. And yes, at the backup. You mean Doug Williams wouldn't help Dwayne

Haskins prepare? Please. You know what? I saw a kid at the end of the year that had progressed significantly and whose coaches and teammates were saying had really, really been coachable and it learned and progress. Don't make him out to be this competitive fiery guy.

He is a competitive guy. He's a showy. He's just showy. That's all. No, he's not. Oh, please. I mean, look, you can be competitive, and part of your competitiveness can be pissed off over not starting.

And what do you do when you're competitive? And you're pissed off. You work harder. You should work harder and go out and earn it. And ultimately, he did, and he played pretty well. Oh, he didn't earn it. One of the things Jay said was that he wanted him to earn it. You know what the bottom line is with that all year long?

they totally over-estimated how ready he was, how unready he was. He was much more ready to go than they ever thought he was. It was stupid not to put him out there earlier. Stupid. Well, again, it doesn't make sense to claim the guy's competitive when... I think he's competitive. Well, it doesn't add up. You can be competitive and immature.

Yeah, but immaturity does not mean I'm not going to study. I'm not going to pay attention. Immaturity is not recognizing at what level you need to be prepared for for a game. No one said that he just wasn't working at all. By the way, Scott Turner's comments in this conference call? You told me what you felt about those the other day. First guy, you can't be the last guy in the building and the first guy to leave. Right.

I think he was talking about Cam Newton. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's rich. I think he was talking about his experience overall and essentially saying a young quarterback's got to be that, and he's probably giving a bit of a warning. You know, you said you were going to cut down on the sugar. I suggest starting with the Kool-Aid.

I'm not buying into it totally. I'm more optimistic than you in Haskins. There are things there that I like about them. I'm not going to change my mind until I change my mind, until I see something that changes my mind. And I don't care what you say. Last year at this time, I was like, please, do not draft Dwayne Haskins.

I didn't think he was going to be a good pro quarterback. Watched him, saw him, and now I think there's a chance he will be a good quarterback. Am I not allowed to change my mind? No, you're allowed to change it. Can I change my mind in October next year and say, you know what? God damn it, it was that taking the selfies. I knew it when I saw him take those selfies. Well, when you change your mind, though, you have to pay the Laverro price.

I don't care. I'll pay the price. You're the one that claims, I'm not changing my mind. This is what I've said all along. But you do all the time. You don't remember anything. You know why? You're not hydrating well and your night's sleeping enough.

I know. I'm not reading enough books. 50 books a year. Who reads 50 books a year? What's the most books in a year you've ever read? Oh, I've never read 50 books in a year. I mean, I've never done that. Look, I know people who do.

I have a sister-in-law who I'll bet you reads 100 books a year. I mean, she reads all the time. I'm not asking about your sister-in-law. What's the most books you've ever read in a year? I don't know. 10, 11? Were you ever a big reader? Yeah.

Oh, when I was a kid? Oh, my God, yeah. I would imagine, since you're a writer and a long-time columnist, that you probably were a big-time reader. We lived four blocks from the Brooklyn Public Library, and I read every baseball biography they had, every single one. I remember reading all the football books and all the football biographies in the school library. And the NFL used to do.

put him out. And remember the Scholastic Book Club? Yeah. I used to order so many sports books from the Scholastic Book Club because you could get away with it because your parents would say, whoa, he wants a book. Yeah. You know, it's not like he wants to go down and buy heroin on the street corner. He wants a book. Right.

How many of your friends were buying heroin on the street corner in 1948? In between stickball games. You'd be shocked. All right. You want to talk about Eli Manning real quickly? No. Well, let's do it anyway. All right.

He's a Hall of Famer. Is he, okay, two things. Is he going to be in the Hall of Fame? Yes. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? Yes. Why? Here's the list of Super Bowl MVP's who have won more than Eli Manning have.

Tom Brady and who's the other one? There's two of them. Ben Rathesberger? No. What was the question? The question is, how many players have won more than two Super Bowl MVPs? It's Montana and Brady. That's it.

Okay? Eli has two Super Bowl MVP. Right. He's seventh all time in touchdown passes as he's retired. He is a Hall of Famer. He will be in Hall of Fame and he should be in the Hall of Fame. Look, in recent years, Jerome Bettis, Tarell Davis. you know, there's multiple examples of guys that to me weren't like obvious

Hall of Fame guys and they ended up in the Hall of Fame. First of all, he will be in the Hall of Fame. Played New York, won two Super Bowls, one two Super Bowl MVP, seventh all time in NFL history in passing yards, you know, and a lot of other things. He's a New Yorker, he's a Manning, he's got two Super Bowl MVP's, played big-time clutch football on the way to those Super Bowls as well. you know, defensive teams in both 2007 and 2011, but he was really good in the postseason in many of those games. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. Should he be in the Hall of Fame?

I mean, I think it's a reasonable debate. There are, you know, a guy, quarterbacks for whatever reason, and I don't subscribe to this necessarily, but they get really, they get evaluated on wins and losses. He's a 500 career quarterback, and the only two post-season that he ever did anything were those two post seasons. Those are big post seasons. Yes. You know, there's a really important postseason. Good time to show up. Yeah, it's a hell of a time to show up. I remember certainly taking all of the numbers out of it. I remember years, you know, and I'm not talking about one or two, and I'm not talking about the two Super Bowl years either. I'm talking about, you know, several seasons where in watching Eli Manning play, I would say to myself, he's a top five,

top six, top seven quarterback in the game. Like, he's a, you know, he's a, top 10 quarterback in the NFL. There were years at the end of last decade, the beginning of this decade, where he played at a very high level. Yeah. And I would think he's a really good quarterback, really good quarterback. But, you know, ultimately, you know, you have a guy that basically had two post seasons that were memorable and the rest of his career is not even really close to Hall of Fameworthy. I know. You know, but I think it's debatable. I'm fine with him going in. I'm not against him going in, but he will go in.

To me, it's a debate. But people that say, well, the two Super Bowl years were just about the giant defense. That's not true. He had big-time drives against the Cowboys, against the Packers, and against the Patriots in the Super Bowl in the 2007 season, including the game winner to Burris. the year that they beat the Packers at Lambo again, and then won in overtime against the Giants at Candlestick to win that NFC championship game. And again, another late come-from-behind game against New England in that Super Bowl that they won 21 to 17. They're down 17, 15 going into the fourth quarter, and they need a drive. So he came up with clutch moments in the postseason.

I agree. There's no doubt about that. It was not all about their pass rush, which was awesome. They had a great pass rush with Pierre Paul and with Tuck and all of them, and Shrayhan. But Eli really played well in the postseason when they were in it in those two Super Bowl years. The other years, okay, he only went to the playoffs. In his long career, 16-year career, he only went to the playoffs six total times. And the other four visits were one in Dunners, you know, in and,

out. No wins. All of his postseason wins came in the two Super Bowl runs, but those were really good runs. So why doesn't Jim Plunkett get credit for that? His career numbers aren't nearly as strong. Yeah, but he had two decent Super Bowl runs. I know that, but his, but Eli's career numbers, you could argue. They are in a different era. Yeah. I mean, but they're among the best. I mean, they're right up, they're right behind Phillip Rivers in terms of touchdowns and yards. So, I mean, Jim Plunkett's career numbers just do not add up. Jim Plunkett, the year that the Raiders won it in 1981, as a wildcard team, by the way, through seven touchdowns and two interceptions in the postseason when they beat the Eagles that year.

I think that game was in the Superdome in New Orleans to win that Super Bowl. Yes, it was. And then the year that they beat the Redskins in Super Bowl 18, his numbers weren't near. is good, and they blew out all three opponents. The year that they won it in 1981, they played multiple close playoff games where he played pretty well. But, you know, when you start comparing like yards and completion percentages, it was just a completely different day back then. Yes, it was. But he had some big time plays in some of those games. Oh, yeah. But you remember the Super Bowl win over the Redskins for the Raiders defense, their corners in particular, Haynes and Hayes,

and for Marcus Allen. Yes. And that's really what you remember that Super Bowl for. And the Redskins getting absolutely pounded as a favorite that year with one of the great offenses the NFL'd seen at that time. All right, what else? That's it. That's it for me too.

Have a great day. Back tomorrow.