The Kevin Sheehan Show - Gibbs, Buckhantz, & Playboy

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Kevin opened today with the news that Alfred Morris was released by the Giants and a remembrance of Morris' 2012 season and 2012 season finale against Dallas. Kevin had some thoughts on Ron Rivera's NFL comp for CB Benjamin St.Juste. At 28:00 Steve Buckhantz jumped on to talk about the famous Joe Gibbs/Playboy interview that took place 30 years ago this week. Ross Tucker also joined the show at 53:00 to talk NFL and WFT with Kevin.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show today. Steve Buckhantz will be on with us and Ross Tucker will be on with us. Why Buck?

Well, 30 years ago this week, Buck held that infamous interview with Joe Gibbs where Buck brought up Playboy magazine and it sent Coach Joe into a tizzy. hear the interview. I've got the audio. Buck provided it to me. And then Buck will join us to talk about that interview and what came afterwards. Ross Tucker will be on this show. We'll talk some NFL and Washington football team with Ross. Before we get started, I want to remind everybody, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please do so. It really helps us out. Also, on Spotify and Apple in particular, if you could rate us five stars and write up one sentence as a review. that helps us as well. The podcast today is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my bonus code right now, Kevin D.C. And they are going to double your first deposit for first time users.

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by 4 p.m. today. Washington did so by waving Greg Stroman. He was waived earlier today. As was a tight end, Gugamos was waived as well. So that goes with the three cuts they made yesterday. They are down to 85 players. But someone else got released today by a division rival. And that someone else was Alfred Morris. Alfred Morris released by the New York Giants today. Alfred Morris holds the single season franchise mark for yards, rushing. 1,613 yards in his rookie year in 2012, 13 touchdowns, and one of the most memorable individual performances in franchise history. With the season on the line in the final week of that season, December 30th, 2012, a season that will be memorable for all of us, primarily because

of Robert Griffin III's rookie of the year campaign, but Alfred Morris also a massive beneficiary of the Shanahan offense and the threat that Griffin was and the player that Alfred Morris was. Alfred Morris ended up having the single best rushing season in franchise history. And in that final game against the Cowboys, win and you win the division and you advance to the postseason, lose your season is over. Alfred Morris carried the ball 33 times for 200 yards and three touchdowns. is one of the all-time great individual performances in franchise history. It is. I think sometimes we forget that final game because of what came the next week, the following week, which was

one of the more infamous games in franchise history, the wild card weekend home playoff game against Seattle, the game in which Robert Griffin III tours ACL, Tours ALCL and was out of that game, and they ended up losing a 14-0-0 lead and losing the game and the season came to an end. But the game that got them into it was Alfred Morris going 33 carries for 200 yards and three touchdowns in a game in which Griffin was really compromised. Remember, at the end of the year after that Ravens game, he wasn't the same player that particular year. You know, in that game, Griffin was just nine of 18 throwing the ball. for 100 yards.

He did carry it six times for 63 yards and a touchdown. And he was still that run threat, and that really helped Morris. But Morris' day or evening, because that was the final game of the year, it was the Sunday night finale. 33 carries 200 yards, three touchdowns, and a must-have game. One of the great performances in franchise history. There have been a lot of them. Obviously, Rigo's run through the 82 playoffs.

the January of 83 playoffs, is the all-time stretch. And really, you know, you can pick any one of those games, whether it was the 166 yards in the fourth and one in the Super Bowl, or the 185 yards in the divisional round against the Vikings or the 140 in the NFC championship game. Riggins was a monster in that postseason. Darrell Green had one of the great games with the punt return against the Bears. There have been lots of memorable big games. game performances, but put Alfred Morris's on the list somewhere. 200 yards in a game you have to have on 33 carries with three touchdowns. Yeah, that belongs on the list.

Alfred Morris is 32 years old, people. It might be it for him. You know, he had a career after Washington. He played four years here and played five with other teams. Two years in Dallas, had a brief stint in San Francisco and Arizona, and then played last year with the Giants where, you know, he rushed for 238 yards with Sequin Barkley out. He did have a decent year for Dallas in 2017, rushed for 547 yards in backing up Zeke Elliott that particular year. But Alfred Morris, I think, will be remembered for, you know,

three really good years here in Washington. The first three were all 1,000-plus-yard seasons. Ultimately, his career in Washington was 4,713 yards and 29 touchdowns on, you know, one good team and then two bad teams and then one good team in that final year in 2015. Anyway, wish the best to Alfred Morris. Okay, so I was unaware of something called making the brand. Maybe some of you were aware of it. The Washington football team has a YouTube show featuring Jason Wright and guests, whereby they are talking about the process of developing the new name and the brand. Now, this was something that, I forget where I read this, I think it was on Sportico,

one of the business sports business magazines. And this was a follow-up or maybe a precursor to the industry. Indians announcing their new name. Cleveland announcing their new name is the Guardians. And they said, one of the real important things in a name change and a major brand change is to build up to it by really, you know, explaining to your customers the process. And I think we've seen a lot of that. You know, we've seen Jason Wright, you know, already talk about how it's not going to have any Native American imagery, obviously, that the Warriors apparently is out. And they've been doing this making the brand thing.

Again, I was unfamiliar with it until yesterday when it really sort of blew up on Twitter, at least among Washington football fans. And it blew up because the conversation between Jason Wright, Martin Mayhew, and Ron Rivera at the end of this three-minute making the brand piece revealed that they are apparently down to their final three names. This is the conversation you're going to hear it bleeped out. You're going to hear Jason Wright talk, and then you're going to hear Ron Rivera speak.

Martin Mayhew is there as well. But this is the end of sort of a conversation that reveals that they're down to three names, and you will hear, you know, the names. names that they mentioned bleeped. But here's how it sounded. So the three that we'll go through are, and I like, I really like that's really good.

So there's not much there. And a lot of people have been, you know, sleuthing to try to figure out, well, you know, the bleep over the words and the names that Jason Wright was saying, was it a long enough beep for it to be more than, a syllable or more than two syllables or more than three syllables, et cetera, and they're trying to guess on the names. Let me just tell you what I've told you before and what I can confirm. Number one is this. They have the name. Now, they have a plan B and a plan C on the name,

which is why I think you heard him mention three names. But they have their name. They have some eyes to dot and some T's to cross legally and trademark and otherwise to ensure that this is a name that they are protected, that they can protect. But they have their first choice. I will also tell you what I've told you before and what I can confirm. It is not going to be a city-centric name. There's going to be a name. It's not going to be Washington football team or Washington Football Club or FC Washington or Washington FC. There's going to be a name. It's going to be the Washington somethings, the Argos or the commanders or the presidents or the

red hogs or the red wolves. It's going to be a name. Now, I mentioned, you know, probably three or four months ago that I thought that made the most sense. It's not what I would prefer. I'd prefer FC Washington. You know, I don't want Washington football team. It's way too clunky.

I'd prefer the brand be centered around the city that we live in and the city that the team plays in and for in terms of the metropolitan area, even though the current stadium is not in Washington, D.C. itself. But it's going to be a name, and it's going to be a name, and I guess this a while back, because if you talk to anybody in branding, they'll tell you that there's more revenue upside with an actual name and an associated logo. and it's just better for the apparel and all of the product that gets sold. That FC Washington or Washington Football Club or WFT doesn't give them the same upside that Washington Red Wolves gives them. I don't like any of the names that I've seen out there. Warriors I would have been fine with. I know that was Dan's first choice,

but that's not what they're going with. Jason Wright mentioned that a few weeks back. Anyway, number one is they have their number one choice, even though you heard them go through three choices. The three choices more likely than not would be plan B and plan C. But they have their plan A. Again, just a few T's to cross and a few eyes to dot. And it'll be, you know, it'll be debuted. It'll be launched.

It'll be revealed, as they've mentioned before in early 2022, is they try to do more. to prepare their customer base for this new name by educating their customer base on the process. And number two, I can confirm that there's going to be a team name. It's not going to be city-centric. It's not going to be Washington Football Club or Washington Football Team. It's going to be the Washington somethings. So with that said, a couple of things. Number one, I've said this before.

I can't generate a lot of sincere passion for this. I am also not, you know, heated or really, really upset about the loss of it, like I thought I would be, the loss of Redskins. Again, do I think it needed to be lost? I don't, based on the data that's out there. I still think, as I've said for, I don't know, seven years. that had they, you know, pursued this differently, had they been less emotional and more analytic and more thoughtful and, you know, more empathetic that maybe they could have gone to dictionaries and petition for a second non-pejorative definition, as I've always mentioned, noun, you know,

Redskins noun, non-pejorative, the football team that plays in Washington. That's what the words meant for 75 years. Nobody uses Redskins to describe. a Native American. But anyway, with that said, if the data has changed, and I haven't seen anything that suggests that the data has changed in terms of how Native Americans feel, but I've always been open to making a change if it really was hurtful to a large group of people. But there's never been any evidence that that's true. With that, all that said, I'm not that passionate about it right now. I don't know what it's going to be. I may feel totally different when it gets revealed. I have a feeling my reaction is going to be, oh, not that. It could have been something else.

And then maybe I'll go through the list and say, I would have preferred that or preferred this. I don't know. Ultimately for them, I've mentioned this before, if you're changing a significant part about your product, your brand, in this case, the name, the imagery, et cetera, you better win and you better win quickly because the emotional attachment that many people had will be gone forever. You have a short window of opportunity to attach your previous customer base to the new brand, to the new name, to the new logo, to the new taste, smell and whatever. and that opportunity only exists if it's great and if it wins in this particular instance,

if it wins immediately. Jason Wright has the ultimate challenge as a team president that has nothing to do. He's got nothing to do with the football operation. His challenge is to build a business that's losing resilient. I think that's a fascinating job because it's really hard when you're going to be a business. you don't have any say in the thing that would make it an absolute slam dunk winning business, which is winning on the field. He's got to create a business that is losing resilient.

That means he's got to create a business that wins off the field, that no matter what the football team does, they're doing other things to generate revenue, whether it's investing in different sports or different, you know, businesses or making this, new stadium, something that turns into something that's not just an eight game a year facility, but it hosts a lot of other things, and it's super fan-friendly, and it appeals to a much younger demo. There's a lot of different ways that you can build a losing resilient, you know, a business in sports.

But I don't know, with this franchise, the easiest way to a good business is winning on the field. And it may be, in my opinion, the only way. There was something that Ron Rivera said at practice yesterday that I wanted to play for you because I thought it was an interesting comparison that he made and it's not the first time he's made this comparison. Remember last week he compared Jared Patterson to Darren Sprouls, something that Taylor Heineke did as well. That's quite a comparison. That would lead you to believe that they really like Jared Patterson's upside. Well, yesterday, in talking about their third round pick, cornerback Benjamin St. Juist from Minnesota, he said this when asked about St. Juist by Riannon Walker of the Athletic.

This is just a quick follow-up. We saw St. Juice with the one-handed interception, the end zone. What do you feel like his ceiling is, like, now that he's starting to get a little bit more up to speed? You know, I think he can continue to grow and get better. I really do. I think he's just scratching the surface because of his skill set, because of his length and size.

He's a different type of corner. And I've said this before, and I don't say this lightly, a lot of his early skills, because I was fortunate enough to be around Charles Tillman early in his career and then later in his career. But a lot of his early skills, I see a little bit of that and been juiced. I really do. I think Benjamin is a guy that really has an opportunity to grow and become something really solid in this league. Charles Tillman is the comp for Benjamin St. Juice. Now they're both tall corners, rangy corners.

Understand this about Charles Tillman. Charles Tillman's one of the greatest defensive back playmakers in the history of the game. Charles Tillman is tied for fifth all time with eight interception returns for touchdown. Charles Tillman leads the league all time for defensive backs in forced fumbles, 44 forced fumbles during the course of his career.

The next closest in terms of a defensive back is Brian Dawkins, who had 36 during the course of his career. Every other player that's in front of him, Robert Mathis, Julius Peppers, John Abraham, Dwight Freeney, Jason Taylor, and Chris Dolman were front seven players. Charles Tillman's the only DB. on the list in the top 10 of forced fumbles all-time, 44 of them, 10 behind the all-time leader, Robert Mathis. Tillman was just a massive playmaker on Chicago defenses during that era, which, by the way, Ron Rivera was the defensive coordinator in the early part of Charles Tillman's career.

And then Tillman ended up playing in Carolina at the end of his career, and he was on Ron Rivera's team in 2015 that went to the Super Bowl. But this dude and that team in Chicago, they turn people over. I think Ron Rivera is looking for players. And I think one of the reasons he plays a lot of zone and has is he just thinks ultimately your defense has to create turnovers. They've got to have eyes on the quarterback. They've got to have eyes on receivers. they've got to know where the ball is and he's got to draft players

that have great anticipation ability and great closing ability. I love the comp to Tillman. I have no idea if that's who he'll be. I'm just saying that as a fan of the team, can you imagine if Benjamin St. Juist is Charles Tillman and Jared Patterson is Darren Sprouls?

I know coaches make comps like this all the time, but Charles Tillman is a player that he was around a lot. And Charles Tillman is really one of the most underrated defensive backs in NFL history and is one of the greatest playmakers of the 21st century in terms of a defensive back. And by the way, also, for most of his career, a very durable player in Chicago, on teams, by the way, that went to the postseason. You know, a lot of those Chicago teams, several of them went to the postseason.

He played in a ton of playoff games during the course of his career. I think he's played in like seven or eight playoff games during the course of his career, Tillman has. So really good comp there. We'll see. St. Juist sounds like he's going to make this team. It sounds also like, in listening to Rivera's press conference yesterday, because there were questions asked about him, about William Jackson, and about Kendall Fuller, that I think in nickel defense, you're going to see Fuller play

in the slot with Jackson and St. Juist on the outside. Fuller, they love in the slot. And look, that's how he made his name here in 2017 playing in the slot. Now, he may play on the outside to start, but I think in nickel situations, right now that would be my guess. It would be Jackson, St. Juist, and Fuller. You know, this is going to be an interesting cut down. when you start looking at the corners

and how they're going to play on their corners. I know they'll have a Buffalo Nickel player as well. You know, Kaleek Hudson can play that. Cam Kroll can play that. There are a number of players. But I think when we look at the three corners that are in the game

in a nickel situation, your slot corner is Kendall Fuller moving over from the outside and Benjamin St. Juiced coming in and playing on the outside opposite. at William Jackson the 3rd. So let's get to the interview with Steve Buchance

and you'll hear the interview he did with Joe Gibbs right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Ross Tucker coming up on the podcast. We'll talk some NFL and some Washington football team with Ross. But before we get to that, Steve Buckhantz is our guest. And before I bring Buck in, I want to play for you this interview between Buck and Joe Gibbs 30 years ago this week.

It took place prior to the end of the preseason in 1991, a season that would turn out to be one of the greatest in NFL history, Washington's 14 and 2 regular season, and then their absolute dominance in the postseason on the way to winning Super Bowl 26 in Minneapolis over Buffalo. Before that season started, Buck's, sat down with Joe Gibbs prior to the final preseason game. And this is the conversation that took place.

Two weeks away, the team is very spotty. That would concern me if I were the coach at this point. Even with everyone saying it's the most talented team we've seen in a long time. That, I might say, is ridiculous. Whoever said that? Who did say that? A lot of people have said it. He's a lot of people.

Playboy picked you to go to the Superboy. Take it for what it is, then. Playboy, okay? Playboy picking football. you know so anybody that would say this is the most talented team in a long time steve all i'm saying is that's kind of ridiculous and i've said it from the beginning now people are going to say it hey fine go ahead and say it that's kind of absurd so i'm not taking that as a shot at our team and it's certainly nobody around here has said that i don't think that at all i think we got

a long ways to go and we haven't won a division here in four years so i mean we got serious problems okay so i just telling everybody that right now so anybody else thinks that then they got my That was 30 years ago, almost to the day as we bring in Buck, Steve Buckhance, of course, who was conducting that interview with Joe Jackson and Gibbs. And it really was, like I was looking at their preseason schedule from 30 years ago. They played the Cleveland Browns on August 16th, 1991, lost the game, and they were two weeks away from the regular season. and there you are saying, hey, you know, people are saying,

and he says what people are saying. He didn't want to hear that. Yeah, so tell me what you remember. Like, where was this done? What was the context of it? I know you've talked to him about it, and you talked to him about it, you know, well after the fact. But give us your memories of that.

Really, you know, in terms of Washington football team memories of interviews, this is up there among the all. timers in terms of Playboy and Joe Gibbs and everybody just says, yeah, that was Buck's interview. So what happened that day? I don't know what it is about me, Kevin, but I have the ability to get the ire up and so many people, and I did it with him, I did it with Rippin. I don't know, maybe because some of my questions were, I don't want to say adversarial, but just maybe too honest.

And they didn't want to hear it, and Joe didn't want to hear that then, obviously. But, you know, I feel like I should apologize because I wasn't trying to get people mad, but I got him as mad as I've ever seen him. I mean, the veins were popping out of his neck. So the situation was obviously preseason game. They didn't play well. Hadn't played well up to that point. And with probably with two previous games, and we're in the locker room.

Now, Channel 5 at the time was not the Redskins station, okay? It was we had the preseason games. had not become Fox yet. Right. Or at least we hadn't got the rights to the games yet. I guess we were Fox. Yeah, we were Fox, but it was three years away from Fox getting the NFL. The games run CBS.

We got the NFL in 94. That's right. So we're the preseason station, and we did all their games, and I did, I don't know if I did the sidelines, I think, at the time. So I'm in the locker room interviewing him live, and that's how that was set up. Now, it was my fault for not realizing when he said to me, well, who says that? Who says this is the best team we've ever had? Dumb-ass me, instead of saying, well, the man who writes your checks, the owner of the team just told me three hours ago in a live interview,

that this was the best team that you've ever had that he's ever had, and you were expected to go to the Super Bowl. Right. I didn't, that's what I should have said. I didn't realize. All I could think about in the heat of the moment was that I had read Playboy the night before. I didn't look at the pictures. I read the article. And it was their pigskin preview, and they picked them to go to the Super Bowl.

So that's the first thing that popped into my head. Instead of saying, well, Mr. Cook says you're going to go to the Super Bowl, and I've said this to Joe also. You know, I said, well, what would you have said if I had said Mr. Cook had picked it? He responded, but he would have always, he had. always would have said that. But I didn't say that. I said Playboy, and that's when he went off. Well, yes, he would have probably said that, well, Mr. Cook expects that all the time, and that's what he says to me all the time, but that's what your owner is supposed to think.

But, you know, it wasn't just Playboy that year, Buck. A lot of people were thinking Washington had a really good chance to be a great team, not necessarily Super Bowl caliber, but close. to it. It wasn't, and he acted as if, you know, we have serious problems and we haven't won a division here in four years, which was typical, Joe. I mean, typical. That's what you would have expected from him. Of course. Like, one of the things I've constantly said about this era, you know, of the last 21 years, is that they've been the kings of overpromising and under-delivering. It's what they've done for 21 straight years. They've told us, you know, from January, you know, from February through,

August how great they were going to be and then they completely underdelivered. He was the opposite of that. He hated to sell anything other than they'd be lucky to be able to hang with the Cardinals and then they'd go out and go 12 and 4, 13, and 3, 14 and 2 every year and be a Super Bowl contender. Yeah, and I believe it's because he was so paranoid like a lot of coaches are. They don't want to see anything that you could use as billboard material or they don't want you to talk about anything. And I think most coaches even today are still like that. But he was, back in that day, they were all like that. They didn't want you to say anything. They didn't like to be predicted,

number one. They just didn't want that for their team. They wanted their team to focus, so they did. So when you got done, and he, you know, he ends it very abruptly, it ends, and then what's the conversation? Well, it ends, and I say, gotcha. And that was it. I mean, that was it. We didn't, he walked away, I walked away. Now, the next day, Len Shapiro and the Washington Post, who obviously covered the team and everything else, wrote a big article about how mad Joe Gibbs got and that he was, you know, veins popping out of his neck and his ire was up and all of that.

The next week, we had a preseason game in Columbia, South Carolina. and we had Joe Gibbs on live before the game, and he apologized to me. He said, you know, I shouldn't have reacted that way. I shouldn't have got that mad. And he apologized, which was great, and that was fun. But again, we had a good relationship with these guys. You know, our director, Ernie Bauer, knew all these guys well,

and we all got along well. So the end of the story, Kevin goes, They go through the NFL, they dismantle every team they play, they go to the playoffs, they go to the Super Bowl, we're in Minneapolis, and I get Joe Gibbs again. And I'm interviewing him, and I said, coach, I don't want to sit here and tell you, I told you so. But, you know, and he said, you're right, you're right. He says, Playboy was right. I'll never doubt them again. And it was funny.

Yeah. And on my wall in my office, I'm not. looking at it right now. Obviously, we were in Canton, Ohio when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. I have the program framed pro football Hall of Fame, and Joe signed it, and I'm looking at it right now, and it says, Steve, I don't care what Playboy says Joe Gibbs. How about that? That's awesome. Well, you know, part of it, too, is Joe, and he's religious, and I guarantee you he was not a subscriber to Playboy magazine. So the fact that it was Playboy was so ridiculous to him. Just because I guarantee you he didn't even know that they picked. See, most people don't

even know that. Playboy was a big football prognosticator. It was a must-have preseason issue, you know, for college and play. And it was credible. Yes. And legitimate and credible. Yeah, it was. And God knows you had it the night before. And, you know, so I don't think he had it. No, he didn't. Now, did you hear from fans about this? Was anybody upset with you that you would upset the coach so much? Not that I can recall. What do you think the reaction would have been on social media today?

It would have been great. I would have loved it. You would have had such a cross-section of people saying, oh, my God, he was way too abrupt. I mean, okay, they're being picked to win the Super Bowl. Who cares to people who would? would have been, oh my God, you read Playboy? I mean, how morally, you know, defective you are. And then you would have had people really upset that you got the head coach pissed off,

you know, the greatest coach in history. But I, I... And not the first time. No. No, what was the other time you got him pissed off? Oh, Kevin. This was just as bad. And this was in private. It was before the team was playing Chicago in the playoffs. This is when Seisman was quarterback. Oh, I know what you're going to say. The shotgun. Yes. Yes. Tell me, okay, go. So they so we're all at practice. I say we're all at practice. I'm the only local guy. You know, Glenn and George and Frank were back at the TV station, but

I was there with a camera and there were a couple of Chicago stations there. This is at the old Redskinned Park. So they're, they're practicing the shotgun formation, which they've never run. Never. ever. So after the practice, I'm there, and I say to Joe, hey, coach, I noticed you're out there practicing the shotgun formation. I, you know, never run that. That's something you might use. And he glossed it over and he said, no, you know, we don't, we don't ever do that. That's just, we don't do that. All right. So we go into the building after practice. And the public relations director, Charlie Dayton, comes to me. And he says,

Coach Gibbs would like to see you in Bubba Tire's office, which is the size of a shoe closet. Okay, so I go down into Bubba Tire's office, and I'm thinking, wow, Coach Gibbs wants to see me. He must have liked something I did or wanted to congratulate me on a story or something like that. We get in there and he says, what are you doing talking about the shotgun formation?

We got a playoff game. We never used that guy. We got TV stations from Chicago out here, and you're killing us, and you're talking about the shotgun formation. and you're giving away secret. And I was like, oh, my God. I said, coach, coach,

I'm a big fan. I grew up here. I would never do anything to hurt the team. And I'll tell you what, man, he was so mad. It was unbelievable. But, listen, Kevin, we had a great relationship. It got even stronger after the passing of Glenn Brenner, who was a mutual friend.

Joe would take me to lunch. We'd talk about, he'd always ask me about how I'm doing, who am I dating, he wanted me to get married so badly, and find the right girl. And so he was concerned. And even at training camp, he would invite me into their prayer meetings and stuff to, I saw stuff that most people don't get to see. And it was really just, I love the guy, and I just respect the hell out of them. So yesterday on the podcast, Rich Malot passed away. You know that. And Tommy and I were talking about Rich Malat. And Dan Daley, who covered the team for the Star and the Post or whatever papers he worked for, had tweeted out that Rich Malott had the most sacks ever in a playoff game for the franchise. He had three and a half sacks in a playoff game against the Bears in 1984, to which I said, you know, I remember that game very much. They had beaten the Cardinals to win the division. They were hosting.

The 49ers were playing a game, and then they were going to host the NFC championship game the following week. And the 49ers really wanted it to be Washington because they wanted to get revenge for the year before because they felt they got robbed in that game. Anyway, I said, there's another story about that game that I remember, and I don't remember all of the details, which you just shed light on. And I said, but they were. were practicing the shotgun and someone asked him about the shotgun. I forgot it was you. I totally forgot it was you. And I said, and I remember how upset he was. And I, Joe, Thysman got sacked by that bear defense, which was the year before the 85 bears, but it was the same defense.

He got sacked in that game seven times and they lost it home. And I'm not sure if they ran the shotgun or not. not. I forget if they ran the shotgun or not. I think he... I don't think they did. I think he ditched it because of your question and the expectation. But that is, that's so funny. You know, when I was working for... And here's the kicker, Kevin. Let me just give you the kicker. So he blasts me for this, okay? Now, I go back to the TV station, and we always watch the other guys on, obviously. So I'm watching six o'clock, and Frank Herzog is on Channel 7. And I'm praying to God. And I'm praying to God, nobody says anything like this.

And Frank closes his sportscast by saying, Redskins and Bears this weekend, and don't be surprised if Washington uses a shotgun formation. And I cring. Oh, God. And I thought, oh, please don't let him have heard this. You know, as you were talking, when I worked for you for those couple of years,

I pissed Joe off one day, and I'll never forget. Oh, yeah. I'll never forget it. It was right before there were rumors flying around that Jay Schrader was going to be traded and how unhappy he was. And I think it was Charlie Dayton at the time. It may have been the other Charlie, whose name escapes me. Yeah, Charlie Taylor. Charlie Taylor. One of the two, I can't remember who it was. But before Joe met, it was at training camp in Carlisle. And before Joe met, it was at training camp in Carlisle. And before Joe met. with all of us and I was a reporter I was out there you know getting all the sound for the show

that night they came over and they said do not bring up Jay Schrader at all with coach and so you know you know me like I looked around and I'm like well but that's what everybody wants to know about exactly and that's what you know Buck and Ernie are going to

expect me or someone to have a reaction from show about Jay Schrader so I sat there and no one asked about it and then I just said coach do you have a reaction to all of the discussion and rumors that Jay Schrader

might be on his way out of here? And he just stared at me for like 10 seconds. He was so pissed. And Charlie, I think it was Charlie Dayton, turned around and go, you know, puts his arms up in the air and then he said, I don't know

what you're talking about. And then Charlie grabbed me and I, and it was a great reaction because it was like five to ten seconds of just staring at me. And then he said something like, I don't know, I don't know what you're talking about. And I brought it back and Charlie was really upset. But I remember you and Ernie saying, oh, no, no, no, we're going to run this. We're running this on the show tonight. And by the way, good job, good job.

Yeah, no, you can ask the right question at the wrong time. I remember when I asked Mark Griffin after at Brechkin Park, after a game that they lost, I think, to the Giants. And I said, you know, at what time do you think the coach should pull the starting quarterback? He was the starting quarterback. And he got really mad. He gave me a short answer and he walked away. Yeah.

And we were pretty good friends. Yeah, he didn't get mad. And later, I think even that day, he had, we kind of cleared the air. I mean, we've been really close friends ever since then. And it was the same thing when I had the Joe Gibbs' retirement. story when I broke that story. When everybody eventually came back to Redskin Park because the cat was out of the bag and they held a 2 o'clock press conference,

I'm standing at the top of what was their theater where they had all their announcements at Redskin Park. And I looked down and Joe walks in and he looks up at me and if looks could kill, I wouldn't be here right now. He just gave me that look at disgust, shook his head. Like, you know, you had to break that story, huh? And that's what that was. Yeah, I mean, most of you probably know, but Buck in March of 1993 broke the news that Joe Gibbs was going to retire for the first time.

No one else had it. And you can tell the story real quickly or as much of it as you want. I mean, we'll do that 30-year anniversary in two years from now in March of 2020. But, you know, that's, I would guess that that's your single biggest breaking story, you know, that you had and no one else had. ever, right? I would say that has to be it. That certainly is the one that garnered the most attention and the most reaction. The next one I would say after that was when I had the story that it was the Houston Astros that were going to come to Washington to be our baseball team.

And the only reason I knew that was because I was very good friends with Bill Collins, who was heading up to Washington the Virginia baseball group. No. Oh, you mean the Astros? when they were going to come, but they didn't? Correct. Okay. Correct.

And that was the deal. So everybody in Washington, George and Glenn, were all like, well, it's going to be the San Francisco Giants, or it's going to be the Montreal Expos, or it's going to be this team. And I knew all along that it was the Houston Astros and that Bill Collins was going to... Metro Call.

By the team from Metro Call. Yeah. And Drayton McLean, who owned the Astros, they had already been up here twice, to visit RFK Stadium. They had a handshake deal. He was going to remain a minority owner, but that Bill Collins and the Virginia baseball group were going to bring the Houston Astros here. And I wasn't allowed to say anything until they called me and said, you can go with it. In fact, we had a code word at the TV station with their guys, and they said, when we call you

and when we say McGillacutty, you can go with the story. and they called me one night in the sports office. I heard the word McGillacutty, and we led to 10 o'clock news with the fact that it wasn't San Francisco, it wasn't any other team. The Houston Astros are coming to Washington. Unfortunately, the rest of the owners kind of killed that deal, and it never happened.

But that is who was coming to Washington. Wow, yeah. And then the kids... And I only knew it because I was friends with Bill Collins and my best friend, Steve Leloo, was a partner in that group. Lilo. Yeah. Cell phones worked out pretty well for him. Pretty well. And you. For all of us. All right. That was fun. I appreciate that. Yeah, no problem. We'll talk soon. And again, let me, you know, Rich Malott. I was stunned to hear that and very

sad. Yeah. I knew him well. A great guy. Quiet dude, but just a good man and a funny guy. And something like that happens, you just, you know, you shake your head, but I just, I hope his family's okay. I feel really badly. You know, the, I mean, Joe Walton passed away yesterday as well over the weekend, whatever it was. And, you know, a few weeks ago, now probably a month or longer ago, Ron Saul passed away. And, you know. Yeah, another great guy. Oh, God.

He would play in all the golf tournaments, have a joke. We used to joke and tell joke. He was a great funny dude. Funny dude and really, you know, probably Rigo's closest, you know, long-time teammate friend here in Washington. You know, they remained, you know, close. And he was quick-witted and funny. So anyway. Love the guy.

All right. Thanks. We'll talk soon. I appreciate you doing this. All right, Kevin. Take care. Up next, Ross Tucker. We'll talk some NFL and some Washington football team with him right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Let's bring on Ross Tucker, who of course covers the league, played for Washington, was signed by Washington way back in 2001, has about 95 podcasts. It is one of the real active entrepreneurs in our sports media business. We'll talk football, we'll talk some Washington football. But my God, you know, I was going through your website right before I called you. You really are quite the entrepreneur. You've just started something called My Frontpage Story.com. The last few times I've had you on, we've talked about Ball Cannon.

You know, what are you up to these days? Yeah, so Ball Cannon was actually a buddy of mine had started that business and was just paying me money to promote it and let people know about it. But Myfrontagetstory.com, I do own it, and it is awesome, man. It's funny. I was actually on a radio show yesterday, and I talked about it for 30 seconds, and we got five orders. So people must like it. It really is just the best gift I've ever seen. I'm a partner with another buddy of mine who started. He's a writer for a newspaper around here. And you basically just have, it's paid gifts where people you write stories for, right? So I'll give an example, whether it's your wife or your mom, you talk to one of our writers for 10 minutes.

They write the most unbelievable story about your mom or wife, whoever you want to get it for. It looks like it's on the cover of the Washington Post. I mean, it's framed. There's a beautiful picture. And then people hang them up in their house. And the key for me, Kev, is, number one, because I've done this a couple times,

and obviously I've heard from other people. Nobody does this. Like, nobody gets a story written about somebody else's a gift. Like, picture your wife, Kevin. And you're like, hey, babe, you know, instead of getting you a gift card to the Owl Garden for the eighth consecutive anniversary, I wanted to be divorced. I wanted to get you a story. I had a story written. Like, if you got one, Kev, your wife will be like, wait a minute, you had a story written about me?

And you'd be like, yeah, I wanted something special for you. I wanted you to know how I felt about you. And then when she actually read it and you're like, man, I never, I never tell her in person enough just how much I appreciate everything she does for the family while I'm, on the radio or I'm doing my shows. I just, she'll cry. Like, it's one thing to say, hey, babe, I love it, I appreciate it, but when they read it in print, like a quote in a newspaper, it just hits different, and they cry. Like, I told my buddy that the name of the, the motto for the business should be my front page

story.com. She will cry, you will win. Myfrontpage story.com. Okay. So not to act like, you know, Shark Tank here, but I am curious now because I spent, you know, much of my professional life in four different startups. And so this interests me. My first curiosity is any of this like process-wise patentable? It's so funny you say that.

I actually talked to a lawyer, business guy yesterday talking about the valuation of the business and it's not. As far as we know, what we looked into, it's not, why? You're going to try to start the same thing and try to beat me, Kemp? No, no, no. I got first mover at Baird. You more than have first mover. And trust me, there's a lot of labor in this. I don't think I'm interested because I'm looking at some of these things.

And obviously, you've got some writers, and I'm sure for them, it's quite easy to put something together after a 10-minute conversation. But my next question to you is, and you can share this with me if you want. I'm, you know, this is an opportunity to market this idea. I think it's a phenomenal idea. If I weren't interested, I wouldn't ask you any follow-up questions, but what's the cost to the consumer? Yeah, so the story itself is 50, 100, or 150, depending upon how long, how big of a story you want. Like word count?

Right. Yeah, so it's like if you just want to have one person interviewed and a smaller word count, it's 500 bucks. I mean, it's $50. If you want a bigger story and two people interviewed, it's $100. And if you want a really big story and three or more people interviewed, it's $150. So the idea is, like, if you get one for your wife for Valentine's Day, it might just be you being interviewed and it might be $50. If you're getting one for your mom for Mother's Day, or, you know,

it might be you and your sibling. And so then that's $100. So I thought it was, I don't know about it. Reasonable. Maybe I'm cheap. Very reasonable. Maybe I'm cheap, but for my wife, for most holidays, I'm usually between 50 and 100 bucks. We're not like extravagant people. I don't get my wife. We don't get each other like fancy jewelry or fancy things.

It's usually, maybe how much the bad gift is like when I donate to something, like somebody's, a friend of mine is doing like a cancer or walk or whatever, I usually donate a hundred bucks. I just feel like that's a reasonable amount. Do you deliver this? Do you deliver this electronically or do you have to frame it? Like, is there any cost of packaging for this, or is it just delivered electronically? So that's up to you. So you can get it delivered electronically and then if you just, if that's all you want and that's fine. If you want to go get it framed somewhere or print it out, you can do that.

But we also do that. So we actually, we wanted to control the whole process. So we do the framing, printing, and shipping because I always look at things from me as a consumer. I have no interest in doing any of those things. Like if I'm getting a gift from my mom or wife, I want you to send me exactly what, like, I'm not even going to take it out of the box, dude. Like I'm not even going to wrap it. I'm just going to be like, hey, here's your gift.

That's all I want. So I'm willing to spend more to get that done. I know other people would rather save a few bucks, and I respect that, too. So you can rule it to either way. The key is, it's a, I mean, it's a nice margin business. Well, your only cost are the labor. What's the writers? Yeah, it's like the labor, right?

It's the time spent writing the story. Right, and there are a lot of writers looking for any type of additional income. Sure. So that's one of the little secret sauces of it. Yeah, of course. Well, good luck with it. It's my front page story. Honestly, I mean, it looks like a great idea and it really is like a really cool idea and unique idea for a gift.

I mean, we all get to that point, whether it's Mother's Day or a birthday or an anniversary or whatever and you're looking for something unique. And actually, this is that. Good luck with that. Ross Tucker, of course, we're having them on. I'm interested in that stuff. And I think some of you are. But what we're really interested in is football. And, you know, I wanted to start because I was just sort of catching up with some of the stuff that you've tweeted about recently.

And you tweeted out the other day in response to Adam Schaefter going, you know, or Field Yates saying, huge day for the quarterbacks making their NFL playing debuts on top, on tap, you know, Fields, Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Jordan, Love, et cetera. And I have been much of the week and even, you know, last week, mocking a little bit some of the just incredible overreaction to these people. preseason results. I mean, we've all been football fans forever. We know that Justin Fields going 14 of 20 against second stringers, you know, you can't hold up your arms in a V, Albert Breer and suggest that you've already won if you thought he was really good. And you tweeted out, I'm just in very tongue placed firmly in cheek, I'm just glad nobody will overreact to any of their performances. So it sounds like you sort of agree with me that,

You know, the overreaction to some of this preseason stuff is a little bit over the top, right? Yeah, so, well, there's no question. I don't want to talk about both sides of my mouth, okay? On the one hand, you and I get paid based on people being excited about football. So I am glad people are excited. I'm glad Bears fans and everybody, they get excited about fields and Jets fans are excited what Jack Wilson did. That's great. That's hope. That's young quarterbacks. That's part of what makes this fun. And I'll also say, you know, there are some examples of guys that look great in the preseason

and then were bad or vice versa. But, you know, Russell Wilson looked real good in the preseason that first year, and that's how he won the starting job. And in my experience, guys that look bad in the preseason are usually bad. And guys that look good in the preseason, they usually have a shot. doesn't mean they're always good when things get more complicated, but at least give them a shot. You'd much rather it be that way than they come out and think up the joint, and you're kind of trying to make excuses for them. But I do think after just a single preseason performance, we get a little bit carried away. I do think when you stack all three preseason performances together, then that carries a little bit more weight. but it's still not the same as when your opponent is, in the Bears case,

going back to the Wisconsin and Northwestern games and really dissecting, or Indiana and Northwestern games, dissecting what those teams did to confuse Justin Fields so that he took those sacks, that he threw those picks, and started to throw those same things at them. They were not doing that in the pre-season game the other night. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. there is clearly a market for people tweeting out play-by-play from training camp practices. I don't know if it's niche or there's a volume market for it.

I'm personally not interested, and it's hard for me to fake interest in that. You know, as I've often said this, Ross, that as someone who's bet football for most of my life, I think the perspective of better sometimes is different than just the normal fan. and one of the things I would say is I don't think you know a lot about these teams four weeks into the regular season, let alone, you know, two or three games into the preseason. Now, the individual evaluation part is different. You know, that's important for coaches. That's, you know, can be interesting for fans.

Like here, Jared Patterson, who was an undrafted free agent running back from Buffalo, really looked the part the other night. You know, in those skill position players for the normal fan, You can see some things if you're a long-time fan. Like this guy has quick feet, has really good vision. I'd be surprised if they release him. I mean, I think he'd get picked up. And I felt that way after watching him for two series.

But felt that way more about his tape at Buffalo. But that's beside the point. But anyway, I didn't want to spend a lot of time. I think it's interesting the three-game preseason and how it's being approached so differently by teams. You know, the Chargers really not playing anybody. you know, the Cowboys saying it's not important for DAC to play, and maybe other teams viewing it is more important.

I guess this is going to be a learning experience, and there's a long time between the third preseason game and the opener for everybody this year. There's a much longer period of time. There's two plus weeks between the third and final preseason game in the opener. Right. So a couple different things. I want to piggyback off of there.

So number one, I called a couple of Jared Patterson's games in college, including when he tied the touchdown record against Kent State last year with eight and should have broken the touchdown record and the all-time rushing record single game. And I would highly encourage you, Cab and your listeners, if you didn't see it, to go back and Google Ross Tucker, Jared Patterson, get taken out. I was apoplectic. Okay. They were like at the 25-yard line.

Kev, he had 408 yards. If they gave him the ball two or three more times and he got 20 yards in a touchdown, he would have the all-time record for rushing yards in a game and touchdowns in a game. He would have 4-20-something yard and nine touchdowns. Right. I was shocked he wasn't drafted. The problem is little and not fast and no passing game experience. It's a bad three things.

But you just can't get that many yards and make that many guys miss and break that many tackles and not be good. To hear what you said about him in the preseason the other night is not surprising at all. And as for the three pre-season games, you know, there are teams that they're going to play their starters in the week three preseason game and treat it like the old week three preseason, which used to be sort of the dress rehearsal.

It makes sense. There are others, though, that are kind of treating it as the fourth game of the preseason, and they're not going to play their guys at all. So we're going to have, I mean, we've never done this before, and nobody really knows if different people are different philosophies, but we're going to have situations where starters are playing third-string dudes in those third pre-season games based on what the team decides to do. It's going to be fascinating.

I just found your tweet after the Jarrett Patterson game. You said on November 28th, 2020, I could call games for 40 more years, and I'll never see a performance like that by University of Buffalo football running back Jared Patterson again. Unreal. Coach spoke to Coach Leopold, and he didn't know Jarrett could have gotten both records. Huge win for U.B. And once again, I love football. You know, hashtag Macchin.

Yeah. The matchion was important for a lot of people who bet this sport. And yes, I think that third preseason, Ross, those that treat that like it was the normal dress rehearsal third game before would do so because there are still more than two weeks before the opener. If you treat this weekend like it's the old third game, you've got 23 days, 24 days in some cases before the opener. That's a long time in between getting on the first. field. I just think it's interesting to watch. All right, I have, I want to rip through a couple of NFL related questions, all right, and I want to start with this. I want you to give me your right now guess on who the starting

quarterback will be for the following teams on opening day. New England. Opening day, Cam Newton, Mac Jones within three weeks. Okay. Denver. True lock. It's interesting that you said that I said, I think on the podcast yesterday. He's a player that I always liked, and I have a feeling this could be a big year, and they are good everywhere, aren't they, except a quarterback?

Like, they're one of those teams, don't you believe that if he ends up being the answer, or at least, you know, a middle-of-the-pack starter, that they could be a much-improve team? Correct. Look, to your point, when you have one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL and you go to the middle of the pack, that's a huge jump. I mean, that's like a, the betterers would tell you, that's like a three-game jump, at least.

Yeah. Okay. Chicago. I think Andy Dalton starts the opening Justin Field by week five. New Orleans. James Winston. And San Francisco.

Jimmy Garapolo, until he has a bad game. Do you, Right now, is there a team or teams that you really like that most don't? Like teams that you've dialed in as dark horses that are going to overachieve the expectations? Well, so I don't know if I would say I really like them, and this will be considered a Homer pick. But I do think, you know, I have that Even Money betting podcast. So we talk betting every week on the Even Money podcast.

and one season win total that really jumped out to me as being too low is the Philadelphia Eagles. You know, the two points I've made over and over again about that is, number one, if they stay healthy up front on both sides of the ball, Kev, they got a top five O line all day, and defensive lines top ten, maybe even top five. It's really hard to be a bad team. if you have a top 10 O-line D-line. And then adding that, because I know a lot of people think they might have the worst record in the NFL.

A lot of people think that, you know, Siriani might be one and done and Hertz isn't good and all that stuff. The thing I would say about Hertz is Carson Wentz led the NFL in interceptions and fax last year, and he didn't play the last four games. I mean, he didn't play 25%. That's amazing. You know how hard that is to do?

If Hertz is just not the worst, quarterback in the league. You were talking about Drew Lockhev, if Hertz just throws three to five less picks than Wednesday and takes five less sacks, five to ten less sacks, which is very reasonable, that's at least two or three wins right there that I don't think people are really taking into account. So I think the Eagles beat their season win total, I think they are a very real threat in the NFC. A week and a half ago, I played the Eagles over seven plus 120. I totally agree with you on their total being too low.

I feel the same way about the Giants as well. What about a team that you don't like that most people do? A team you would sure. I would say, yeah. Now, I'm not looking at the wind tolls in front of me right now, but I don't like Miami or New England. I am still very skeptical in Miami of both Tuotunga Vialoa and the offensive line, which are two bad things to be skeptical about.

And maybe I'm wrong. And quite frankly, I hope I am. I like one of those more good quarterbacks, but didn't love what I saw from Tua last year, and they don't have a great group in front of him. And then the Patriots, I was at their joint practice on Monday with the Eagles, and I just don't think they're an overly talented team. They've got a pretty good offensive line, and they always find a way to do it on defense,

but I don't think their receivers are great, even though Nelson Nagelor made a bunch of plays. And I think at some point they'll go from Cam Newton to Mack Jones. And I don't know that Mack Jones is a guy that as a rookie quarterback is going to get them the double-digit wins. You know, I just pulled up their current numbers on multiple sites. Basically, the Patriots and the Dolphins, total is nine and a half. I agree. That's kind of high for both teams. I don't see either one of

them getting to 10 and 7. They're not in Buffalo's category. Nope. I think they're both eight or nine win teams. I don't think they get to 10. So when people ask you about our team here, Washington, what do you say? Favorites in the NFD. Yeah, I think they're the favorites. Although I do once again. I think there's a pretty decent chance. All four teams are between seven and ten wins, and that it's pretty jumbled. But, you know, they didn't get very good quarterback play last year.

And I think it'll be Fitzpatrick, but whether it's Fitzpatrick or Heineke or whatever, I think they'll get better quarterback play. I think the offensive line is pretty solid. You know, Logan Thomas is only going to get better. Adding Curtis Samuel, I know this team off the list, helped, having Humphreys reliable in the slot helps, and then the defense is very good. I mean, I just, I think they're the best team in the division. Everybody always types

up to Cowboys, but Cowboys have some real challenges from a health standpoint and issues on defense still. So I think it's, I think Washington is a nose ahead of Dallas, Philadelphia, and New York right now. Yeah, but I, I, I agree with the way you described it. I've sort of said, that already a couple of times. I think it's a division that really is jumbled up, similar to last year, but not as bad as last year. Remember, every single team played multiple quarterbacks last year. Dallas played four, Washington played four, Philly played three, and the Giants played two. Like, if you have relative normal health at the position, you're going to have better records and more wins for the division teams. But I could definitely see what you described, and that is four

teams with between 7 and 10 wins. And, you know, whoever hits the inside straight on staying healthy and getting, you know, the breaks in a couple of games here or there, you know, Washington's got a brutal schedule in terms of the quarterbacks. Maybe a couple of them aren't playing when they play them. That kind of thing could determine the division. What do you think of the quarterback situation here? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I know if some people were saying that they felt like Hineke. He was the best quarterback the other night. I have a tough time not giving Fitzpatrick this chance

and having Fitzpatrick be the guy as long as he's playing well and things are going well. The issue with Fitzpatrick is you always get to a point where he has that really bad game. And what I'll be curious to see is whether or not Ron Rivera sticks with in the next week and says, okay, it's the every fifth game, you know, Fitztinger, right? and puts him back in or he uses that to move on to Heineke.

I'm curious, what's your opinion and what's kind of the consensus down there? Well, I think that they, you know, let's put it this way. They went hard after Matt Stafford, so they don't believe Taylor Heineke or Kyle Allen are the long-term answers. You know, and the best you could say is they don't believe that they can stay healthy or they're concerned because they've gotten hurt in almost every game that they've played. So I think just the effort to go out and find a longer-term solution in the off-season, you know, the Stafford thing is pretty much documented.

Rivera's admitted that and there are others that people think they were going after, including guys like Derrick Carr if he had become available. And there was some even talk of trading up for fields, you know, at one point. They signed Fitzpatrick to a one-year $10 million deal because he's going to be their starter because he's coming off two good seasons and they want a veteran quarterback on a team they think can win the division again. I just, I can't imagine that unless he gets hurt or he really regresses at 37 years old from where he's played the last two years, that we see anybody else on the field this year.

Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, I don't think you pay a guy $10 million to be a backup unless they feel like is clearly better, but I don't see how they're going to feel that. I don't see how they're going to feel like that's the case. I have one last one for you. You tweeted out something that you had on the podcast, on the Ross Tucker podcast. Ross does a ton of podcasts, and you can find them all. Just follow him on Twitter, and you'll see links to all of them.

But you interviewed somebody who is a mental health clinician for the Los Angeles Rams. And you said that this was a really good interview. And I'm just curious, how many. people, how many teams in the league have like an on-staff mental health slash psychologist or psychiatrist? Well, she mentioned it during the interview, but as of the last CBA a couple years ago, or I guess it was just last year, you have to have somebody now. You have to have someone as a mental health resource for every team, which I think is really good and really healthy. And I wish they had that when I was playing, I mean, it's not easy to be in your 20s and have all of that pressure,

you know, family pressure, stress. You know, it's not easy for anybody in their 20s, let alone when a lot of these guys, it's like their whole family's counting on them. And, you know, I'm sorry, but if you work in accounting in Ernst and Young, it's not the same thing as getting beat deep for a touchdown on Monday Night Football and thinking, oh my gosh, or might get cut now. You know, it's just different. Plus, there's a lot of other issues that people don't realize.

You know, everybody was, when they see these guys doing something stupid or they blow their money, it's like, look, I went to a good school, and I have even a good high school. And I can tell you right now, some of my best friends in the world from high school, if you gave them $20 million when they were 22, I guarantee they would have done stupid stuff. Right. You know?

So I think it's really important for people to have someone to talk to. I guess a lot of colleges have it now because a lot of these guys, she told me a lot of these rookies, they schedule meetings on a weekly basis or whatever with her because that's what they're used to from college. It's like that's just like their norm now is being able to have time to talk with someone about the stresses in their life. It's really, it's changed dramatically in the last like five years. You just touched on, and I'm assuming it's because she told you this, some of the issues, that football players have, you know, the pressure, the pressure of providing for, you know, an extended group. Is that what she gets more than anything else? I'm curious as to what the primary, you know,

reasons players seek her out are. Yeah, well, she said it's kind of across the board. It could be family issues. It could be job issues, stress issues, but it does seem to relate a lot to those two things, which is their personal situation. So a lot of guys are having issues now. I know I really struggled, you know, and I don't even know that we knew it was called mental health then. It always cracked me up, Kev. They'd say, you know, just worry about yourself. You know, don't look at the numbers. Like, yeah, right, dude. That sounds so good until it's 10 o'clock at night. You're putting your head on your bed. You just had two practices. and you know, you know you're on the bubble,

and you think, okay, well, they're keeping that guy, they're keeping that guy, and you're like, man, I guess I'm maybe battling for one spot with these other two guys, maybe? Like, what am I even doing here? I mean, it sounds so good, you know. Like, I love when the guys are interviewed, like, I don't even think about that stuff.

You know, I just worry about myself. I control what I control. Yeah, right, you're a liar. You know, I don't, I don't, don't worry about the stuff I can control because I control it. I worry about the stuff I can't control. Well, I just think it's interesting as you brought something up and I remember a specific player that was here a few years ago, a first round pick out of TCU, a wide receiver named Josh Doxon. And you could tell very early on and, you know, in talking to people and you forget,

these are 22-year-olds, in some cases living on their own for the first time. living away from home for the first time. They're still very young. I've heard this many times, and you probably have as well, that a lot of young players literally suffer anxiety related to homesickness or something comparable to that. Like, you know, the whole change of scenery thing can be very jarring for a 20, 21, 22, 23 year old, not to mention all the pressure and the money and all of that. Well, you're talking about, Kevin, you're talking about guys that in college, everything is taking care of them.

Right. Everything. So now they're professionals on their own, like, they've never paid rent before. They've never had a bank account before. You know, they've never had to get their car registered, like little things that you wouldn't think of that colleges have like 50 dudes that they could take care of everything for these guys. Meanwhile, these guys, like, they never bought trash bags, you know, for their apartment before.

It's a lot different. Yeah. Yeah, they can't figure out how to turn the vacuum on. Are you a Ted Lassow fan? I am. I haven't started a season two yet. I just got through season one. Absolutely love it.

I love everything about it. Then I don't think you've been introduced to Sharon yet, have you, the team psychologist? Nope. Yeah, okay. Every team could use a Sharon. I'll just leave it at that. This was fun, as always. I appreciate it. Everybody just go to Ross's website, Twitter page, at Ross Tucker NFL, and you get a link to all of the pods he's doing and everything he's doing with my front page. Now, best of luck with that, honestly. I think it sounds like a great idea. We'll talk soon. I appreciate it. Sounds great, Kevin. Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks to Ross. Thanks to Buck. to all of you. Remember, don't forget to subscribe, rate and review where applicable. Much appreciated. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Two weeks away, the team is very spotty. That would concern me if I were the coach at this point. Even with everyone saying it's the most talented team we've seen in a long time. That, I might say, is ridiculous. Whoever said that, who did say that? A lot of people have said it. Who's a lot of people? Playboy picked you to go to the Superboy. Take it for what it is, then playboy okay playboy picking football you know so anybody that would say this is the most talented

team in a long time steve all i'm saying is that's kind of ridiculous and i've said it from the beginning now people going to say it hey fine go ahead and say it that's kind of absurd so i'm not taking that as a shot at our team and it's certainly nobody around here has said that i don't think that at all i think we got a long ways to go and we haven't won a division here in four years so i mean we got serious problems okay so i just telling everybody that right now so anybody else thinks that then they got my answer on it