The Kevin Sheehan Show - Gibbs & Marino...Almost?

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Kevin and Thom opened the show discussing an emailer who wanted to know if the Redskins would've have drafted Dan Marino in 1983 if they had lost the Super Bowl to the Dolphins the previous January. Plenty on LeBron James' comments about championships meaning too much to player legacy. Nats, Lakers' 10B sale, NBA Finals, and 39 years ago today, Len Bias died. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always,

Window Nation 86690 Nation. Windonation.com if you need new windows. Tommy, we got this email from Bob. Bob wrote, Coach, I think he's referring to me, listening to Wednesday's show about great players and championship wins creating legacy. I'll interject there. On the radio show yesterday, we did a lot on LeBron James' comments with Steve Nash the other day,

minimizing the importance of winning championships and tying championships to legacy. So that's what he was referring to. Anyway, he continues. You mentioned Marino, as in Dan Marino, and I agree. It made me wonder what would have happened had the skins lost the 82s, Super Bowl and drafted Marino at 27 instead of Daryl Green at 28. How great would the Gibbs Marino marriage have been? Really interesting, Bob.

I asked Bobby Bethard that, you know, many years ago, probably followed up a couple of other times because Bobby came on the show with Tommy and I together and individually. Bobby was such a great guest and had such a great memory and was a really good storyteller. But Bobby insisted, because I asked him, you know, multiple times, if Marino had fallen one spot further, if Miami had not taken Marino at number 27, which was the next to last pick in the draft, because back then there were only 28 teams, Washington had the last pick, Miami the next to last pick, because they were the two teams that played in the Super Bowl in Washington. One Super Bowl 17. I said, would you have taken Marino had he not gone at 27? and Bobby Bethard insisted for years. They would not have selected Dan Marino. And the reason being, more than anything, they had Joe Thaisman.

They had their quarterback. I mean, Joe was becoming an older quarterback, Tommy, at that point. But he had just had an excellent season. They had won the Super Bowl, and let's not forget, in 83, the year of that draft, Marino's rookie year, the MVP of the league was Joe Thaisman. but he talked, you know, about that many times that, you know, Marino too, remember, fell in that draft because of rumors of cocaine and drug, you know, use at Pitt. And that was the, you know, big quarterback draft of Elway and Blackledge and Kelly and Eason and Ken O'Brien with Marino, the guy that fell was supposed to go before most of those guys except for Elway. But they would not have taken Dan Marino.

They loved Darrell Green. That's who they had in their sights at 28. And he said they would have taken Darrell Green at 28, regardless of whether or not Marino was there. So it tells me that if they had picked 27, lost the Super Bowl, they would not have taken Marino. They loved Joe Thaisman at that point, loved him. And they were good at quarterback.

Interesting, though, to consider what the skins would. have been and what the marriage of a Marino Gibbs, you know, next 10 to 15 years could have been. But look, I mean, Joe did pretty well without Dan Marino. Yes. Yes, he did. But, and also, I think part of Joe Gibbs' legacy that separates him from a lot of coaches is that he won three Super Bowls with three different quarterback. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that's what we always point to when people talk about great coaches,

and people, those great coaches are almost always tied to a single quarterback. And Gibbs took three different ones, none of whom are Hall of Famers. None of whom are Hall of Famers. And Marino, with a great coach, arguably the greatest coach of all time. You could certainly debate that about Don Shula, went to. to just one and didn't win it. You know, Gibbs' legacy, like you said, is very much, you know, described as the only coach to win three different Super Bowls, you know, three Super Bowls with three different

quarterbacks. You know, I'll remind everybody, they had three different everythings. I mean, even the hogs did change, you know, between those three Super Bowls. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know, knowing what Dan Marino turned into. and also knowing what Daryl Green turned into. Those were two Hall of Fame picks that went 27 and 28 in that draft. But, you know, it still is interesting to kind of consider Gibbs and Marino. I mean, they didn't win a Super Bowl with Jay Schrader,

even though Schrader was a significant participant in helping them get to a Super Bowl. It was Doug Williams in the postseason, obviously. and they had Mark Rippin in 91. And there were years there, you know, with Schrader in particular. And then with, you know, kind of humpfries and rip, you know, they weren't great at quarterback. And they may have been, you know, better and maybe a lot better with better quarterback play in some of those years that they didn't win the Super Bowl. You know, Montana won four. Better, yes.

But it turned out pretty well. Going to four and winning three over a 10-year period is a pretty good run. So, Tommy, did you... I think Dolphin fans would gladly trade that run with Washington fans. Sure. They didn't win a Super Bowl during that run. You know? Yeah. I mean, a lot of teams that certainly looked like they could win the Super Bowl, but they didn't win the Super Bowl.

So maybe we'll just start the conversation off of this, because I wanted to have this conversation with you yesterday. So LeBron James in a podcast the other day talked about, you know, rings. and the NBA, what he referred to is the ring culture. And it was on a podcast that he does with Steve Nash. I think this was the podcast that he did last year with JJ Reddick. And he said essentially, you know, a ring is a team accomplishment. And he, you know, went into this diatribe of, I don't know why it's discussed so much in our sport

and why it's the end-all, be-all of everything. Like, okay, you weren't a great player because you never want a championship, or if you won one, you can't be in the same conversation with this person. You sit here and tell me that Alan Iverson and Charles Barkley and Steve Nash, effing, weren't unbelievable. Like, oh, they can't be talked about or discussed with these guys because this guy won one ring or won two rings. It's just weird to me.

And then he goes into, you know, mentioning all-time greats like Dan Marina. and Barry Bonds, neither of whom won a championship. And he says they're not held to the same standard as NBA players. I don't think that's necessarily true. But Bonds, maybe not. Marino is for sure. The quarterback conversation has always been almost equal to the NBA conversation, although I disagree with it.

We'll get to that in a moment. But your quick reaction to LeBron's comments. Well, of all guys to bring this up, this is Rich. coming from him. Since he basically did a tour of the NBA to try to win rings, you know? I mean, basically he got out of Cleveland to win a ring in Miami, helped put that super team together, then went back to Cleveland and won another ring. And, you know, he's the last guy to be able to have any credibility talking about this.

and he knows, I mean, look, maybe, you know, this isn't driving him, but people will always argue one of the differences between him and Jordan are the six rings that Jordan had all one team. Of course. You know? Yeah. So, I mean, he's kind of suspect in terms of his motivation for bringing this up. And there's a bit of truth to what he says, but, you know, it's not to be all and all.

No, it's rings don't mean nothing. They mean a lot. You know, I guess it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You know, if you didn't win a ring, your career is diminished. Or if you won multiple rings, you're on Mount Rushmore. I don't think it has to be one or the other. Yeah. Yeah, so, first of all...

I'll tell you what, like, people forget. Oscar Robertson won one ring. Yeah. And he had to go to Milwaukee and play with Kareem to do it. You know, you mentioned guys like Barclay and AI. I mean, I think most people recognize. I think people underestimate Barclay's greatness as a player. I think that's in part because of his personality in his post-playing career.

I think it's overshadowed how great a player Barclay was. Great player. And he played in the Jordan era, in the Malone era, with a lot of great players, you know. I mean, that was a great era of players when Barclay played. The first part of this, the LeBron comments, like you said, they're rich. You know, not five, not six, not seven, not eight. I mean, you know, the king of chasing rings. It is definitely, you know, it's, I don't know, I think it's, you know, typically.

LeBron. He's insecure. He's not very super self-aware about sort of his position all along, not that you can't evolve and that you can't change. But this is about how his four will be viewed versus Michael's six or even Magics Five, for that matter. And, you know, or Russell's 11. Yeah, I mean, that's the outlier. He doesn't get compared to Russell. He gets compared to Jordan. He likes to think that the 2020 COVID, you know, bubble championship made him the greatest of all time. And here's the part of it that's, you know, I'm not a big LeBron fan. I just haven't been. I think there's a bit of phony attached to him, you know, that it's always been there.

With that said, he is undoubtedly one of the greatest to ever do it. He is on Mount Rushmore. He's a top four, you know, worst case top five player of all time. And he won four rings. He went to the NBA finals 10 times for crying out loud. That's a hell of a resume. He doesn't have to apologize for only winning four. He is all time great.

He's not Jordan, in my opinion. And you know how I feel about magic, because it's the same way you feel about magic. I don't think he's magic in the non-center conversation. I think he comes after Michael in magic in the non-center conversation. So that's first and foremost. I mean, the guy that has always been about chasing it and, you know, declaring things based on it for him to have that view. But that view is an interesting view and it's, it's, you know, there's some truth to it. This is my position on this, because I think every sport is different. I think the two, you know, the two athlete types or categories that get judged on championships

more than any other athlete category are NBA players and NFL quarterbacks. I think that we have more conversations about NBA players or NBA greats and NFL quarterbacks and tying their greatness and their legacies to championship rings. I think in basketball, Tommy, it's fair. And the reason I think it's fair is that it's just a different sport. You're on the floor the entire time. You're one of five, not one of 11. You're one of 10 total on the floor, not one of 22. You have a much bigger impact on the outcome of games than I think in any other sport that the great basketball players have that.

Not to mention that when you get to the postseason, it's a Best of Seven. It's not a One and Done. And we know Best of Seven is more revealing of the better team than a One and Done is. in the NFL, quarterbacks get tied to championships as well. But to me, and I've always felt this way, it's unfair to do that with quarterbacks. They're only on the field half the time. It is an incredibly dependent position. There is no doubt that the quarterback has as much impact on the outcome of a game as much more so than any other position in the game,

and much more so than a lot of positions and a lot of different sports. I just can't tie greatness to championships for quarterbacks when they're only on the field half the time. And in the NFL, their post seasons are one and done. And we know the nature of one and done sports in the postseason. Things happen. Bad day defensively. Kicker misses a kick. Has nothing to do in many instances with how great the quarterback was.

Baseball, too many moving pieces. for a player to be tied. Ted Williams is never tied to the fact that he didn't win a World Series. Nobody questions his greatness. Hockey, I'll leave that up to somebody else. But in many ways, it's similar to baseball in that, you know, a pitcher can essentially, or pitching can control, you know, the outcome of a postseason series.

A goaltender can do the same thing in hockey. You know, the irony about hockey is that the greatest players in the history of the game have also won lots of Stanley Cups. You know, the Lemues and the Gretzky's and the Sydney Crosby's. I mean, Ovetchen only has one, and Connor McDavid hasn't gotten one. And I know that many people view him to be the greatest player of certainly the last few years. But that's the way I see it. I do, if we're talking about great players, I don't want to talk about Robert Orie.

Like Robert Orie has seven rings, but he's not in the conversation of greatest players of all time. You know, so you're not talking about role players. We're not talking about Derek Fisher. You know, we're not talking about, you know, Horace Grant, you know, good players. Steve Kerr won five. We're not talking about him. We're talking about, you know, clearing the hurdle of being in the conversation of the

greatest to ever do it. I do think it matters in basketball that you got over the top and got a ring or, you know, multiple. That's my view. What's yours? Here's what I'm going to say about this, and I'm going to say this with all sports, even baseball. Like the great players, I don't think the lack of a ring diminishes your stature and your place in the game. However, adding rings enhances it.

I don't think it's ever, if you're great and you don't have a ring, I don't think it's a negative. If you're great and you have a couple of rings, then your greatness is built on. But I don't think it ever becomes a minus for a great player. That's fair, but in the comparison to other great players, I think it's a differentiator. Like Charles Barclay is a great player, one of the greatest to ever do it, as was in his era, guys like Patrick Ewing and, you know, Carl Malone and John Stockton. And none of those players got rings. They were unfortunately in the era with the greatest in Michael Jordan.

And many times they were defeated by Michael Jordan along the way. But it doesn't mean that Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Stockton, and Malone aren't among the greatest of all time. But I can't elevate them to the Jordan Magic level because they didn't get it. And in basketball, one player has an outsized impact on the final outcome. Yeah. Oh, you're right. You're absolutely right about that. I mean, you know, Eli Manning, there's no way you could ever get me to say that

Eli Manning was a better quarterback than Dan Marino. You know, in the conversation of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, Dan Marino, for me, is close to, you know, Mount Rush, more. He's top five, top six worst case. Eli Manning's going to go to the Hall of Fame more likely than not. And he played incredibly well in the postseason.

But he's not Dan Marino. I mean, come on. Now, maybe Eli Manning would fall into the Derek Fisher category of, you know, not great players, but he's going to end up being a Hall of Fame quarterback. Terry Bradshaw is nowhere near the quarterback Dan Marino was. Sorry,

he wasn't. I mean, you know, I don't think a lot of quarterbacks that won multiple Super Bowls are anywhere near the quarterback that Dan Marino was. But that's how I view it. And I know that people have a problem with that. It's not, by the way, I had a caller, you know, longtime caller or guy Ronnie called in. And he said, you know, how can you knock Barclay? Like he never had a number two.

Jordan had the number two. You know, almost every great player had great supporting casts. Magic had Kareem. Let's not forget. Kareem was an old player in those last couple of titles with Magic. Magic, I think, got one without him, too, right? I think he did. But Barclay did play with Dr. J. early in his career.

And he also played with Drexler and Elijah One. towards the end of their careers together. And they couldn't get by Utah in a Western Conference final or the following year. So, you know, but there are, you know, Patrick Ewing never had, he had a good supporting cast, you know, but he didn't have a Scotty Pippen next to him. He didn't have, you know, a DJ, Aange, McHale, and Robert Parrish. He didn't have James Worthy, Kareem and Byron Scott. But I don't know.

It is awfully, you know, LeBron. Does he have any self-awareness? Seriously. You know, I give him kind of a pass. I've come to admire LeBron over the years for the way he's basically conducted his business and conducted his life. Okay. And what he's built.

up, you know, as a brand and as an industry with really not a black mark on. I mean, no, he doesn't. You're right. And, you know, I give him a lot of credit for that. It's hard to do in this day and age, you know, for not having the drastic YouTube misstep. You know, he never has that. You don't have to get in trouble to lack self-awareness or to be unlikable. I know, but if you're LeBron James, doesn't it make sense? You would lack self-awareness? I mean, look at him. I mean, people worship him.

The hero worship is through the roof. And I'm sure he doesn't hire guys who say, LaBron, you've got to keep your mouth shut, which doesn't separate him from other people of power. Yeah, but there have been some of the greatest to ever do it that are much more likable and much more self-aware. But they're not as big as well as big as LeBron James. Because of the era? Magic is rare. Magic is very rare in that case.

He's a rare human being. Okay. But, I mean, LeBron is the biggest brand in the history of the NBA. He is? I think so. You think he'll take... Him or Jordan. I think he'll take credit for the $10 billion sale of the Lakers,

the $10 billion valuation. Yeah. Boy, I don't understand that at all in a way. I was shocked by that. It's great news for, you know, it's great news for Josh Harris and the 20-something limited partners. I mean, it looks like Washington got a deal. It looks like they got a deal.

got a deal on the football team here at $6 billion because the NFL in NFL franchises are worth a lot more typically than NBA franchises. Look, this was an existing owner of the Lakers. And a $10 billion, I'm not sure evaluation is the same as sales price. Well, yeah, I mean, he bought it based on a $10 billion evaluation. the majority of the team based on a $10 billion valuation. So that's what it's valued at. Yes.

Yeah. But teams that are, what they're valued at usually don't sell it what they're valued at. Well, it just did. I mean, he just paid at a $10 billion valuation for now, you know, whatever percent, what did he owed, 27 percent? So he bought another 26 percent of the business. If you're saying if they put the entire, thing up for sale? I don't know. I don't know how they came to a $10 billion

valuation. Let's not forget that, you know, and this has been part of the conversation around things like, you know, the ratings and the interest in the NBA finals, which is all time low, you know. They don't care right now. They did a TV deal last year that was worth $76 billion in all of their TV deals at it. up. They got paid. And now they just had one of their franchises valued at 10 billion, basically four billion more than any other North American franchises ever sold for. You know, the Celtics were just sold for just over $6 billion, which topped the skin sale. I mean, I think they should care

about, you know, things like interest level. And, you know, eventually that will impact some of these deals, but the NBA is also very much an international product, and it has been for many, many years. I don't know how they got to $10 billion. That almost feels like, you know, the guy's worth so many billions, whatever Mark Walter's worth. It's like, you know. Let's see what we can take them for. Yeah, the bus family just said, look, if you want a majority of it, you got to give us $10 billion. And by the way, Jeannie's still going to be involved in running the team for several years. And he just said, let's just do it you know here's one thing that's true i believe it's true i mean there may be an example that somebody can come up with it doesn't seem like the sale of any of these franchises during our

time together you know you and i doing shows together which is now coming up on like 17 or 18 years whatever it's been it doesn't seem like the purchase of any franchise has gone down in value after the purchase price. Can you come up with any sports franchise purchased over the last, say, 20 years that's gone down in value? Not off the top of my head, no. I can't come up with any. Maybe, but it is interesting that, and we could talk about more of this about with the nationals when we discuss that, that nobody's lining up around the block to buy baseball teams with this whole, you know, the sky's the limit when it comes. comes to the value of franchises.

And baseball is having a record year, in revenue, in attendance, in ratings. But the Tampa Bay race are supposedly going to be sold for $1.7 billion. That's what the Orioles were sold for a couple years ago. The raise are only... Skyrocketing for baseball. So why is that? I don't know why that would be. I don't know.

I don't know why it is. Like I said before, there weren't a line of people around South Capitol Street to try to buy the nationals from the learners. Yeah. And I don't know what's going on with that. The angels were on the market, and then they got taken off the market like the nationalized. Right. The twins have been set out for sale for a year now. Supposedly they're close to making the deal.

But I don't know why baseball was, again, from all reports, you know, tendances up. television ratings are way up. Revenue is up, but I don't think the valuation is there, at least for some teams. Well, what do you think? Certainly not the national. Well, the Yankees and Dodgers and Red Sox would have to be worth what the going rate, take the Lakers sale out of it, but I would think that they're worth more than $5 billion, right? $6 billion.

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, the Yankees in particular. Yeah, there's a couple of marquee ones. But, you know, in a lot of these leagues, any ticket in is usually very costly. Any ticket into the club is cost you. Yes. I mean, there's so few opportunities,

and there's so many of these billionaires looking to get into sports and now obviously private equity as well. Could it be, Tommy, that baseball is an uncapped sport, and it's really hard in a lot of situations to, you know, manage. you know, from an operating income standpoint. There you go. You're right.

There's no salary cap. The only major sport without one. Yeah. I mean, didn't the nationals, haven't a lot of these teams lost money? You know. Oh, they claim they losing money. Yeah.

You know, you don't know what to believe. The learners have told people in the organization they're losing $100 million a year. I'm not sure that's true. Tell you what, it wouldn't be a bad time to try to buy the Nationals right now because their stock is really low. We'll get to that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. So guys, if you're starting to notice your hair thinning when you look in the mirror, join the club,

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full years and you won't be charged interest. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. Well, Tommy, we are two days since we last spoke and the Nationals have lost two more games to the Colorado Rockies. Losing last night three to one. They have now dropped 11 in a row. We talked about the situation two days ago.

Mike Rizzo yesterday on. the junkies, and I played some of that sound on the show yesterday, did not sound like a guy that was ready to make a change. In fact, he basically said the exact same thing you said on Tuesday, which was, you know, you felt like Davy had always been one of the most player-friendly managers, that this was frustration, this was more of an effort to protect his coaches than to rip his players. But they're on the verge of getting swept. by a team that was on pace to have one of the worst seasons or the worst season in Major League Baseball history. Colorado's won the first three. They'll try to complete the sweep this afternoon.

What's going on with the nationals and do you think things will change? And what did you hear from Mike Rizzo yesterday? Well, I mean, I basically heard what I had said. But what was interesting was one of the things, he did say was in his comments, he said, when we get to the time where we're ready to win, hopefully we will invest in the roster and make some moves to put us over the top. Right. Notice to qualify or hopefully.

Yeah. Okay, you know where that comes from. That comes from the fact that they haven't gotten the financial support that they've asked for from ownership. I hate to be the dead horse, you know. And nobody likes to hear this because it's easier to fire the manager or the call for the general manager to be fired because you have no control over the owner. Okay? As a fan, you can raise hell about the manager. You can raise hell about the owner.

But nobody better than Washington fans know that there's not a lot you can do about bad ownership. Okay. You have to hope that, you know, that basically they self-destruct. or else they're going to be there. So nobody wants to really point to the fact that this team has had such a pathetic financial support of putting quality veterans around these young players that they have. They were going to have offensive problems from the get-go. Rizzo knew that.

Like I said before, they wanted to add a lot more power to the lineup of the off-season. and they didn't get the opportunity to do that. They wanted to add more veterans starting pitching to the rotation. They added Michael Soroco, but they were nationals-winning only team willing to offer him a starting a chance to be a starter after his history of injuries and he sent back to the bullpen in Atlanta. So, I mean, you have the general manager operating with almost both hands behind his back. That said, once he puts a team,

out on the field, then whatever that, however on fair it is, it's the manager's job to try to win with that team. And it's the general manager's job to try to assemble a competitive team. They're operating at a loss because they're starting 20 yards behind the, the, the, uh, was this, was this the off season where he was hoping that they would give him the ability to go get some players? Well, again, he wanted it last. off season. He thought they could compete. Remember they won 71 games last year? They were more competitive than people thought they would be last year.

And he felt that. He wanted... And I'm not talking a hundred million-dollar contracts. I'm talking, you know, a $50 million three-year deal here, a $60 million three-year deal here. You know, I'm not talking about like a Max Scher's kind of investment, a Jason Worth kind of investment. That's not what they're looking for. But they're looking to put some quality major leaguers who were there for more than one year, you know, renting players more to one year, to help these young players come along instead of putting the whole burden on this core group of young players, which is basically what they've done. They don't score enough runs. They just don't, but they weren't going to you know. And that people shouldn't be surprised by this.

You know, according to ESPN, and win projections this year, the nationals were projected to win 68 games. That's three less than they won last year. Right. So nobody who knows baseball expected much from them this year. And they're delivering on that. All that said, this thing could spiral out of control, and nobody has a clue what could happen then. At some point, you know, you can't just do nothing. You have to do something.

Yeah, but to your point. to your point, the time to do something would have been in the off-season for ownership to have given them the ability to have a payroll, you know, at least in the top half of baseball or somewhere around there so they could compete. And when he says, hopefully, is he talking about after this year? I mean, Yes. So do you think in recent years they haven't spent because their hope was

they could unload the team? You know, that's not, that's complicated because I think it's their nature not to spend. And the second thing is there's a division within the family

as to sell the team. You know, they were on the market for a while in 2022, and then they pulled them off the market. Mark Lerner wants to keep the team. Other family members want to sell the team. His two sisters are siding with him at this point.

And that's where it stands right now. Plus, again, they're not going to get the price that they want. I mean, the Orioles just sold for $1.7 billion. In Tampa Bay Race, you know, are selling for $1.7 billion. The learners think their team is worth $2,000,000. Okay, maybe two, three or two four. I'm not sure they're going to get that. And like we've discussed, this is a difficult family to do business with.

So the sale of a team is a very difficult procedure. So it's just, it's a complicated mess with an owner that doesn't want to commit to be, I mean, let's face it, their real estate business is probably collapsing all around them, you know? Yeah. I mean, they're in, they're in the retail real estate business. I understand. And that's like, it's like a bomb that's slowly going off. They still have, they're still worth billions.

You look, you know, we have, we have people buying into teams for the purposes of being able to play, you know, their vanity purchases, their, you know, status purchases, or however you want. And when those ownership groups, you know, get involved, whether they're private equity or whether they're, you know, Cohen or in New York or whatever, they're spending. They want, they want, they, the, the toy that they purchased was to have fun with, but to also try to win. And it doesn't seem like winning is paramount to the learners. You know, making money, uh, you know, generating more revenue than you have in costs on an annual basis seems to be the goal.

Yeah. I mean, it really is such a mess right now. And look, the TV deal, they used to... Yeah. Okay. The TV deal, they talked about how Massen held them back. Yeah. And they're right in a sense that no...

You don't want another team to hold your television rights. But they were always a little bit disingenuous about that. Okay. I'll give you an example. I know for a fact that the number... that the nationals got $70 million from the Massen in 2023. They spent $50 million. By the end of the year, their payroll was $50 million.

Okay, so just in the Massen money, they didn't even spend that on payroll. I mean, their payroll on the field. I'm not talking about the salaries that they're carrying, the Scherer, long-term contracts, the Strasbourg, you know, the deferral. I'm talking about the players on the field. By the end of 2020, their payroll was $50 million a year,

and they got $70 million from that from that here. So they're crying about that. It's always been a little disingenuous. All right. I don't see any easy way out of this. And you know, they're a family, so they're going to be very reluctant

to let in another an outside party to buy into the team. Right. They're a very close-knit family. Did you see, by the way, just speaking of baseball,

did you see the Orioles what happened in their game last night against Tampa Bay? They had an 8-0-0. Yeah, they had an 8-0 lead and they gave up 12 unanswered to lose 12 to 8. It's hard to...

Good luck with moving that press box, boys. Good luck with that. Like, Orioles fans want a better view of the team. Is that what's going on there? Yeah, they're going to move the press box next year, and they're going to put a private club behind home play. That's press box and baseball. Where's the press box going to get moved to?

Probably somewhere along the first baseline. where you can't see the pitcher throwing to the catcher directly. Getting harder to cover these games live, given the seating locations for media. I mean, it's nothing worse than the location you get at Northwest Field. All right, we got a few other things, including an NBA finals game six prediction when we come back. After these words from a few of our sponsors.

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at Shelly's Backroom.com. But if you're not a big cigar smoker and you're just dropping in, you can ask the staff for some advice as to pick the best cigar for you. They're very helpful and very well-versed in what might be a good beginner cigar, what might be a good, you know, medium cigar, things like that.

Okay, and you can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. 13th and F Streets, Northwest. Shelly's is the best. Tommy, the NBA finals could end tonight in Indianapolis. The latest on the Tyrese Halliburton injury, I was listening to Brian Winthorce this morning on ESPN. They did that MRI on his. calf strain. They know what the results are. The results have not been divulged, but they have listed

him as a game time decision and questionable. And Windhor said, look, if it had been serious, they would have, you know, said it's serious. He's out. I don't know if that's true or not. I think maybe they would have kept it under wraps so that Oklahoma City had to try to plan for him to play. But he essentially believes that they're going to give it a shot with Halliburton. tonight. If he's not 100% Oklahoma City wins the title tonight. I actually like them minus the six, which is what they are right now at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They'll give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. The line right now is minus six. It opened at four and a half. So there is sort of among odds makers the belief that Halliburton,

even if he plays will not be 100%. This series has been great. On one level, I'd love to see it go to a game seven, especially when you get to a championship series, and that would be Sunday night. But I think Oklahoma City wins tonight. I actually like them minus the six. They're just better, not as, you know,

the disparity between the two teams is not what I thought at the beginning of the series. This was a very close series. but without Halliburton being healthy and being able to, you know, be a big part of Indies attack, I just can't see them winning, even though T.J. McConnell has played very well. So I like Oklahoma City to end it tonight and end the NBA season with the Lawrence O'Brien trophy. All right, switching subjects really quickly because I know you have to roll today. And I do as well. Did you see this story on Shadur Sanders from early Tuesday morning?

He was clocked going 101 miles per hour in a Black Dodge TRX truck in a 60 mile per hour speed limit zone. He was pulled over and he was charged with a fourth degree misdemeanor. He's got to pay either a $250 fine or go and fly. fight it in court. Real quickly, before we get to, you know, whether or not this is a big story related to the guy that generated a ton of attention for sure during the draft or not. What's the fastest you've ever gone in a vehicle? I was in, as a passenger, I was in a car. That was going 125 miles. Okay, that's good. I've hit

I mean I think the most I've ever driven maybe 90 I don't think I've ever got over 90 Oh really? I've hit I've hit 120 before Really? Yeah and I know 120 isn't a lot for some of you I know many of you listening have probably done a lot faster than 120 I have people in my life that are probably giggling listening to this

Thinking that that's the most you've ever done But you feel it at 120 you know, depending on the vehicle. Yeah. I know where I've done, you know, 120, maybe even more than that, who knows, but when I was out visiting Cooley a couple of summers ago, two summers ago in Wyoming,

driving from Montana to Wyoming to his house, I mean, there were plenty of opportunities to really open it up. And, yeah, I don't know, whatever. Big deal or not a big deal? and Shadur Sanders, a guy who's clearly had the spotlight on him pre-draft, draft weekend, and even during these off-season, you know, workouts in many camps in Cleveland.

What do you say? You know, like the man said, nothing good happens after midnight usually. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, young people don't really take that to heart. Oh, I know that. Yeah, and a lot of adults don't either. But you know what? What?

But I often wonder if I had lots of money at stake, if I would have been different when I was younger. Really? You know, I live recklessly in a lot of ways, but, you know, I mean, I made about $3,000 $4,000 a year. What are we talking about here? I don't know. What was I putting a risk? I think when you're that young, I love. he's already, he's had money now for a few years.

He grew up with money. This is somebody who came from means to begin with. I don't think young people think in terms of that. It's all about money for young people. It's all about stature and things and money. Yeah, but it doesn't make you less reckless when you're 22 years old or 23 years old. And I'm not sure that if you had had money, it would have stopped you from burning down your fraternity house at the University of Miami. By the way, speaking of university, I was a student at the University of Maryland.

39 years ago, Tommy, when I was awoken on a day that I was getting ready to head to a summer school class with the news that Len Bias had died. This was for many in the area, many people around the country. This was one of those, you know, you remember where you were when you heard the news. I think I was listening to TOP as I was getting ready to head out to go to a summer school class in College Park. And I was just like, wait a minute, that can't be true. It's not true. Two nights earlier, he was picked by the Celtics in the NBA draft. But it was devastating, devastating.

Where were you when you heard the news? Do you remember? I was at the Baltimore Sun then as a news reporter. Oh, right. Yeah. And I'd only been in this area for two or three years. And I remember not thinking, having no idea how big of a story it was at the time. I really didn't grasp the magnitude of it.

Not just for Maryland fans, but as it wound up being, a national story about the the drug culture of the 80s. I mean, I really had no grasp of how big it would be. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, you hadn't been in the area long enough to sort of recognize how big of a deal it was. And, you know, with respect to what came afterwards in the years following his death, the Reagan administrations war on drugs and the, you know, the laws that were enacted with mandatory minimum sentences for drug crimes,

with, you know, small amounts of possession or distribution. You know, they were not looked back on fondly, you know, years later. But, you know, in the moment, Tommy, this was so shocking, so sad because of how beloved he was as a player. And certainly as a, you know, friend and family member of the community, he grew up right down the street from the University of Maryland. but what made it so shocking to so many of us in the moment was how could somebody that looked the way he looked die of a drug overdose? Look, I was in college during the 80s, man. It was a drug era. It was a drug era.

It was the beginning very much of a gambling era. You know, fortunately, I didn't have both vices. I only had one, but it was so shocking that somebody that looked the way he looked, 6-8, chiseled from stone, he just looked like Superman could die from a little bit of cocaine. And it scared the living crap out of people. There are a lot of people that probably never used cocaine because of bias's death or stopped using cocaine because of Bias's death. But Bias, the basketball player, and I've said this many times over the years,

he is the greatest player in the history of Maryland basketball, in my opinion. I think Juan Dixon is number two on that list. Dixon, obviously, the greatest winner in Maryland basketball history. But Bias was, I think, the best player, two-time ACC player. the year and, you know, the number two pick in the draft. And a guy that, you know, everybody's always talked about was going to be the next Jordan. I've always said, I don't think he was going to be the next Jordan. I thought he was going to be the next Dominique Wilkins. He was a forward. Jordan was a guard. Leonard didn't have the ball handling ability that Jordan had as a

young player. He may have developed into a better ball handler and creator. I'll tell you one thing it's interesting, as great a shooter as Michael Jordan turned into, you know, in 1986, bias was a much better shooter than Jordan was. Bias was just a pure, beautiful, you know, jump shooter. I mean, he shot it at the apex with his, you know, 6-8 frame and his leaping ability. It was an unblockable shot. He had such a great soft, you know, release. He would have been a highlight reel. He would have been a great. all-time NBA player, in my opinion. And let's not forget, he was getting drafted onto a team that would become one of the great NBA championship teams of all time, the 86 Celtics. I don't

know where he would have fit in on that team, but he would have played for sure. But 39 years ago today, Len Byes passed away. We do this pretty much every year. And it just keeps getting further and further away in the rear view. It's amazing how long it's been. at this point. Wow. Think about this. You got in your car and you went to college park

and there was no way to share your thoughts and feelings with your friend at that point because you were at a car and you were listening on the radio but there was no way to talk back to anybody. No, there was no social media, but

you... No. And there was no... And there weren't cell phones so you didn't have that either. I don't think I went to class. I think I'm pretty sure if I recall. I bailed on going to class and I sat there and watched the news, you know, and talked on the phone with friends on, you know, landlines to friends. Yeah.

But, yeah, he was something else, man. He really was. All right. Anything else, Tommy? I got nothing else for you today, boss. All right. I will talk to you. Let's get out of here.

Tuesday. Let's get out of here. Enjoy the day. See you. Okay, buddy. Bias from outside and he got it. Lynn Bias with 29. Oh my!

And he made for the steel!