The Kevin Sheehan Show - GM Hurney

Episode Date: January 19, 2021

Kevin and Thom with thoughts on the imminent hiring of Marty Hurney as Washington's new GM. Plenty on a hypothetical Deshaun Watson trade to DC. Also, Ron Rivera's admission that he made a mistake not to have more of a QB competition last summer. Thom weighed in on the Jon Lester signing by the Nats and Kevin with thoughts on a recommended column on Maryland basketball recruiting by the Post's Emily Giambalvo.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. We're going to get to the news about Marty Herney

becoming Washington football team's new general manager. This show today brought to you by My Bookie. My Bookie is a place you can trust. I've mentioned this many times before. If you're going to bet the NFL games this weekend, currently Green Bay's minus four. And Kansas cities minus three. By the way, if you play the chiefs at minus three, it's even money.

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So if you deposit $1,000, they're going to give you an extra $500 to play with. MyBooky.ag, my promo code, Kevin, D.C. I'm just checking my bookie right now. I want to see real quickly what the Maryland-Michigan line is tonight. Michigan's minus 10.5. Terps go into that one. They beat Illinois in their last real game. Then they had a game against Nebraska postponed due to COVID.

They played some Division 2 team, and they get Michigan off their first loss of the year tonight in Ann Arbor. Tough chore for the Terps, but I will be watching that tonight. I don't know if I'll be wagering on it, however. All right, Tommy, let's start with the news about Marty Herney. Do you remember Marty Herney? Did you know Marty Herney at all? You know, because he was a reporter at the Washington Times. Yes.

He was before my time. Was it the star or the Times? Was it still the star? Well, he worked at the Star, and then he worked at the Washington Times. You know, I think he covered the team. But it was before your time. You guys were not there at the same time. No, I started in January 1992.

He was already working for Bobby Bethard at that point in San Diego, I believe. So, I mean, Bobby Bethard is the guy who hired him and took him along with him. You know, my first job out of college was working, as you know, for Steve Buckhantz and Ernie Bauer at Channel 5 at the Fox affiliate here in D.C. Channel 5 as a sports producer. I interned there. They hired me. I mean, Buck had a lot of interns that you've heard of over the years, Scott Van Pelt, Chick Hernandez, Joe Yashiroff, and others over the years who, who, who were part of the team at Channel 5 that worked for Buck and Ernie. But one of my first jobs and responsibilities as a young 23-year-old was to basically cover the skins.

And I went to Carlisle and I was out at the park, the old park, you know, for, you know, I had that job for about two and a half years. And then I decided I wanted to make some money and I got out of the business for 15 years. But I remember Marty. You know, I can remember having many conversations with Marty out at the park, you know, about the team and about various things. And he was a very nice guy. Like sort of a serious guy is my recollection, but I was really young. And then I remember following his career. I was like, wow, I mean, Bobby Bethard saw enough in Marty Herney that, you know, he hired him and then took him with him to San Diego.

And then eventually he became a general manager in Carolina from 2002 to 2012 to 2012. and then came back in 2017 after five years. I had this guy David Newton, who is the John Kime equivalent for ESPN.com, on the show this morning, and he told me something that I didn't know. Maybe some of you know this, and Tommy, maybe you knew this, that in 2012, the Carolina Panthers in Ron Rivera's second year, and so this was the second year of Cam Newton, they got off to a one in five start that year. and Jerry Richardson wanted to fire Ron Rivera in the 2012 season.

They went six in ten that first year, and there they were with Cam Newton, and they were off to a one in five start. And Marty Herney, according to this guy, David Newton, said, no, you've got the right head coach. If you want to fire somebody, fire me. And he fell on his own sword, and this is the story that I was told this morning, that that's why he was fired, is that Richardson wanted somebody's head for the one in five start. And it was Marty Herney who said, trust me on this. We hired the right guy. Ron Rivera's the right guy. If you're going to fire somebody, fire me. And he did. He fired him. Did you know that

story? I didn't know that story, but that tells me everything I need to know about why he stopped being a sports writer because a sports writer would never do that. They'd say, sure, who do you want me to fire? Yeah, there's no doubt. There is no doubt. I mean, I can't imagine coming to you and saying, you know, these columns, they stink. Who's faulted? It certainly wouldn't be your fault. Absolutely not. So I understand why I wasn't in the business that long then. You know, I think. You know, I didn't know him at all. I've never, I've never, spoken to him. I've emailed them back and forth. I, you know

what? I've emailed him too and he's never responded to me. I emailed him like... He has a reputation of not giving anybody anything in terms of information. Right. Well, I mean... He's smart enough from the business, from the media side,

into not being a leaker as far as I know. Right. Yeah. You know, you know, the one thing, I have several thoughts on this and you do probably as well. The one thing is he was mentored and groomed by the greatest general manager in the history of this franchise, Bobby Beatherd. Bobby Beatherd saw something

in Marty Herney, who was a beat reporter for the Washington Star and then the Washington Times covering his team. And he ended up in 1990, hiring him as a PR guy and then taking him to San Diego where he made him the assistant GM from 1990 to 1990. And then he ended up in the Carolina organization for years. So there is that feather in his cap that Bobby Bethard saw something in him for many, many years and hired him. I've been surprised at the reaction to this. First of all, it's funny, and I didn't say this on the podcast, and I'm not trying to go back and give myself credit for it. But I think there are a couple of people that I've communicated with that would back me up when I've gotten recent texts about, you know,

Mayhew and various people, I've just said, I think Herney's going to, I mean, I had heard a week ago that herney is still in the mix for some position, but it was sort of made clear to me that it wasn't necessarily the GM, but that he was going to be involved in this thing. Well, he is. He's about to be named the general manager of the team, and I'm surprised at how many fans, at least that I've heard from are totally against this. I don't know why they would be. None of you know that much about Marty Hurley. Well, I know that.

But what they do know is it smells of recycling. And what's wrong with that? There's recycling. Okay, not, I thought you were going to say more Carolina to D.C. No, just, you know, another old, you know, general manager getting a job because he was a general manager before. You know, I mean, where's the, where's the, where's the, where's the, where's the, where's the, where's the Sean McVeigh of the front office?

That's what fans want. Yeah, but he's not a retread or a recycle because of any reason other than he's got a relationship with Ron Rivera. If Ron Rivera didn't have a relationship with Marty Herney, Hurney wasn't going to become the GM more likely than not. Right. Now, look, I'm not saying I agree with it. I mean, here's the premise that fans should operate under,

or at least fans seem to operate under in every other instance. If it's okay with Ron, it's okay with them. I mean, that's the MO right now for the most part. I don't know why they're reacting this way, because everything else Ron Rivera does is gold. And there's nothing he can't do. That's a problem right now. So if Ron Rivera wants to hire Marty Herney, you know,

I would think that they'd welcome open arms. But I think part of the problem is the perception of having the next hot shot general manager instead of doing business as usual. All right. So I'm going to agree with you on your first thing. For me, the thing that the thing that fans should first of all be somewhat pleased with is that Ron's making the hire. This will be the first GM or GM equivalent hired by somebody other than Dan Snyder or Bruce Allen. Since Marty Schottenheimer hired John Schneider to be the VP of Football Ops when he was here in 2001,

Schneider, the longtime GM in Seattle, became a longtime GM in Seattle. So the fact that, at least I believe, that this is Ron's decision, is a great. good thing. Secondly, I have no, absolutely no problem with, you know, nepotism to find family and or friends. I have no problem with Marty Herney being a friend and being a former, you know, partner, if you will, with Marty Herney, with him hiring comfort and a known versus an unknown. You know, because of what you said. So far, Rivera's earned a certain level of trust here. You know, the Carolina to DC train has worked so far.

Mattsko, phenomenal offensive line coach. I mean, he got, he got a hell of a lot of that group. Pete Hainer, the tight ends coach, hell of a lot out of that group. Sam Mills, hell of a lot of the defensive line. Now that area had talent. Zampezi was good. Turner. I think Turner proved to be an NFL offensive coordinator.

And maybe a good one. You're right. Rob Rogers, so far all of the complaints about the Carolina to Washington parade, I mean, give me a complaint about it based on results so far that's legitimate. There isn't one. Marty Herney, we can go through his whole track record, okay? I mean, you can tell me, well, he's had a losing record. Okay, he has. You can tell me that he's only been to the playoffs four or five times as a general manager.

That's true. You can tell me about all the misses and all the hits and everything else. Look, Ron Rivera believes in Marty Herney. Ron Rivera right now has some pull in the organization. We don't know how long it'll last because I tweeted this out and I credited you that any level of optimism and I have some because Ron's been able to make this higher and because the Carolina to D.C. trains worked out so far and he's earned some trust with me. And I've gone through Marty Herney's record and it's not that terrible. He's actually drafted, you know, more often than not

fairly well. But it comes with your surgeon general's warning. The only chance that this organization will have at sustained success, not the one-off, is if football people, get to make all of the football decisions. So that's never, ever a lock in this organization, as we know. And it probably won't happen. But at least for now, Ron Rivera is making all of the decisions. And this decision is his, not Dan Snyders, or not Bruce Allen's, or not Vinnie Serratos. Because those are the people, that's, this is, yeah, go ahead.

No, you go ahead. What's interesting is that what was the situation Marty worked with in Carolina? Because he had a very, I'm sure, look, like the story you just described about, you know, he wanted to fire the coach. And so Marty fell on his sword. You would think a smart owner would say, well, I'm not going to fire this guy. He's, I want a guy like this. This courageous to work for me. Well, he's worked with Jerry Richardson.

He wouldn't have, I know. So my point is you would think that Jerry Ritzson would not have been turnaround and fired Marty, you know, based on what he said. I mean, I would look at a guy who says, don't fire him, fire me. I want to keep that guy, you know? Yeah, it would be so unusual for you to hear that. I know. So, but Jerry Ritzisner was a football guy. Okay, he played in the NFL, however briefly.

Yeah. You know, I'm sure, however warped he may have been, he. He thought he understood the game. You know, so that was an interesting, unique situation. And I don't know how Marty held off Jerry Richardson. If Jerry Richardson had a lot of input on football decisions and how that will work moving forward in Washington with a guy who never, it doesn't, it's not a football guy.

It's more of a bad fan than a good football owner. You know, Marty, obviously, being from him, He grew up in Wheaton, went to good counsel. I mean, he's a local guy. He knows, having worked in this organization and covered this organization and been in the league, he knows what a disastrous organization this has been. Like, I'm wondering, and I failed to mention this earlier in the radio show, but I wonder if Marty had to, I wonder if Ron had to convince Marty that it's okay.

It's not what you think. I'm in charge. he's left me alone. Because if I'm going to take a job as a general, if I'm a longtime GM in this league, look, he might be jumping at any opportunity, maybe just once in and the money's great or whatever. But you don't want to take that job

that you know you're going to be there on draft night with the owner walking into the room saying, hey, that's a cute little board you put together, but that's not what we're going to do. Because don't you think he had to get some assurance? I'm sure he and Ron, I mean, Marty knows enough to say to Ron, so what's the deal with this dude? Is he finally, you know, gloves off? Is he going to be the owner?

What's the deal? Because it wouldn't surprise me at some point over the years if somebody even like Joe Gibbs reached out to Marty Herney. It wouldn't surprise me at some point. You know, this sort of reminds me of the Orioles in 90. when the Orioles hired Pat Gillick. No, the Orioles hired Davy Johnson to beat her manager after the 95 season. Then he convinced Pat Gillick to come to Baltimore to beat a general manager. They went back for years as teammates in the Orioles farm system.

And they were friends for years. So Gillick came to Baltimore to work for Angelo's, who he wouldn't never have gone to work for based on Davy's assurances that everything would be okay. So what the funny part was, Davy quit in two years and left Gillick there. And Gillick flew down to Florida and said to Davey,

what are you doing? Look what he's stuck me with. Yeah. You know, you're the one who told me it was okay to come here. So I'll be curious to see what happens two or three years from now. If Robert Rivera says, I'm getting out and leaves Marky to hold the bag.

Yeah. I mean, as you were describing that story, which is a great story, 12 former Carolina coaches plus Ryan Vermillion, the head athletic trainer, have been hired by Rivera. And they hired Rob Rogers, and they hired Eric Stokes, who they interviewed for this job. And they hired Donnie Warren. Let's not forget, they brought Don Warren. Yes, they did. from Carolina.

I don't know why. You can complain about any of Carolina. Look at the training staff. I mean, I don't know why people stay healthier some years and others. Well, you can't argue with the results. The training staff this year seemed to have done a heck of a job keeping this team healthy. And, I mean, considering the cesspool that the perceived cesspool that they inherited. from the last training camp.

I mean, you got to give them really a lot of credit for what they've done. That was a Carolina hire, like you said. I just, I don't know, I think I'm conditioned after, you know, 21 years, and really, to be fair, 27 years of, you know, nearly three decades of just being an afterthought in the league of being one of the bottom feeders in the league to taking crumbs because I'm so hungry.

And Ron Rivera was more than crumbs to me. I thought it was a really good hire as long as he's allowed to do his job. And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, you know, Ron sort of understands what fits right now with him. And so if you're against the Marty Herney hire, you're sort of against Ron Rivera. Like you're you're you're you'd rather you'd rather upgrade from Rivera and move to another thing altogether. You're I understand that it's right that there isn't Super Bowl history here. They've been to two. I mean, Marty Herney was the general manager when they went with Jake Delome with John Fox as the head coach in 2003 when they lost to the Patriots in, you know, on a walk off field goal 32 to 29. His team that he drafted essentially was the team that lost the Super Bowl.

Bowl to Denver during the 2015 season. Now, Gettelman was the GM. If you go back and look at the Gettlement drafts versus the Herney drafts, Herney's drafts were much better. Gettelman's drafts actually weren't that good at all. Now, apparently they didn't have a great cap situation under Herney. But anyway, I don't know, man. I look at it and I'm like, I'm happy that for now they have a good football coach

that he's been given the authority to run the football operations. and so far his hires have worked out. So I'm not going to get Ben out of shape that he's hiring a friend or he's hiring somebody that makes him comfortable. Most people do that. A lot of people do that. And that for now it's not a much better situation organizationally than it's been in a long time. Because it is. I don't know how long that'll last.

But I'm not going to nitpick the Marty Herney. hire. I am right now big picture thrilled that Ron Rivera is in charge, that everything he's done has pretty much worked out in terms of his hires so far, and I'm just going to sit back and watch and hope that he's left alone. And the people that he's hired are left alone to run the football operation professionally, which, you know, is a major step up. And then we can go get to Sean Watson and we can go win the Super Bowl. But I mean, you know, it's so much right now on January 19th, 2021, do you know how much better a situation this is than two years ago?

I know that. I know that. You're right. I know what you're going to tell me, and I'm not going to disagree. No, no, no. I'm not going to tell you that. Okay. No, because, and like part of the reaction to the Marty Hurdy hire, negative reaction,

would be head scratching because I've never seen a fan base bask in the glow of a seven and nine season like this one has done. I thought you were going to hit me with the Kyle Smith. You know, I've never seen a fan base so enamored with somebody who, you know, hasn't produced a winning season yet. By the way, on Kyle Smith real quickly, before we get to what you just said, I'm not so sure Kyle Smith's gone. I'll just leave it at that.

He could be if he gets an obvious upgrade somewhere else. He's got a VP of player personnel title. I think that Ron Rivera does appreciate his evaluation talent, but just didn't think of him as a GM yet. And I think there are some other issues between Kyle and Ron as well. There's got to be. He never mentions his name. There definitely is.

But just for now, and I'm not saying anything, I don't know anything for sure. This is a gut more than anything else. as you start to see the GM positions get filled around the league without Kyle Smith's being, you know, Kyle Smith, from my understanding, has not been sought out by another team to interview for a GM position. And that would be an elevated position from his current title. So he would be allowed to interview for that. So anyway, so, yeah.

So, yes, you've seen fan bases more enamored than this one with seven and nine seasons. I can't recall one. I mean, I always felt like if they went 8 and 8, that was pretty good. The 8, 7, and 1 season ended disappointingly, but it was the second consecutive winning season for the first time in 20 years. I think, I don't recall. What's your point? What's your point? There is no, I mean, there is the Ron Rivera factor.

It's so powerful. I don't understand why there would be such a pushback on Marty Herney. It doesn't compute. I think it's a Kyle Smith thing. I think it's also, you know, in this day and age, people doing their own analysis of what Marty Herney was in Carolina. And they see a guy with, you know, a very average resume, you know, wins, losses, winning seasons, playoff seasons, et cetera. Again, to me, I'm going to trust and run. And I'm absolutely, I do not have a problem at all with the Carolina.

parade to D.C. haven't had an issue with that from the beginning. I actually think there's great benefit in that. Look, Marty Schottenheimer did it in 2001. Joe Gibbs put the whole band back together in 2004. I mean, Bugs and Rennie Simmons and the whole deal. And by the way, hired his son, as is Rivera's done and Del Rio's son as well. I don't have a problem with that. You know, if it, bottom line is, if it doesn't work, you move on. But right now, this is, this is such a better situation organizationally than they've been in in a long time, even with a seven and nine record. I do wonder, though, I do wonder that if they didn't make the playoffs, let's just say Dallas was a 10 and 16 and Washington went 9 and 7, if there would be this much

trust, if Rivera would have earned what he's earned in my own mind, and I think in the minds of many fans. Oh, I don't think there would be. I don't think there would be. I mean, it's the NFC title that gives it the glow. But that's coincidence. That's not achievement. That's luck. Well, I know that, but fans don't care about that. They're NFC.

East champions. It goes on the Wikipedia page when they list all the division championships for Washington. There's another one now. Yeah, I think it's hard because it was a big

experience, I believe, in a good experience, them playing these games that mattered down the stretch and then playing in a playoff game, you know, and doing it all the while playing four different quarterbacks, which, by the way, I'm going to give you credit. I haven't given you credit for that. You called it at the beginning of the year that there would be. No, I did not. I'm going to set you straight. That was my last year prediction. No, it was this year's. My 2019. No, you absolutely said they were going to. to get to a fourth quarterback this year? No, I said in 2019, the quarterback who finishes the season wasn't even on the roster at the start of the season. You said the same thing about this season.

No, well, it doesn't count because I said it in 2019. That's what I meant. No, I'm making it count. Good God. Somebody just tweet both of us and tell us who's right on this one. I'm pretty sure he said that about this season. Then again, I don't even know what year it is. I think that if they had just gone seven and nine and the defense was massively improved, the team appeared to be better coached, which it was, I do think that there would be optimism. Look, I can only speak for myself. If Dallas ran away with the division at 10 and 6, and let's say you split with Dallas or whatever, and you finish seven and nine.

The big issue, more than anything else, and the big conversation would be that was a good first season for Ron Rivera. They improved by four games. He's got to get a quarterback. Without a quarterback, this thing's just going to, it's just going to, you know, you're not going to get to the next step of making the playoffs.

And I think, you know, playing in some meaningful games, winning a couple of them, the game at Pittsburgh, and then having a playoff game against the Buccaneers with a legitimate chance. to win it with Taylor Heineke. It just, it sort of just, I think, strengthened the thoughts that they got the right guy. But the NFC East title plays into one of the other parts of this optimism is the NFC East is a disaster. I mean, it's up for grabs.

Yeah, but every year. There is no 10 and 6 Dallas team to win. There is no 10 and 6 Philly team to over. overcome. The Eagles are more of a train wreck than Washington right now. Did you read that story about Carson Wentz and the Philadelphia Inquirer? Oh my God. Tommy, I can't believe we haven't talked about this. That's RG3 all over again. Yes. He's RG3. It's the same thing. Yeah, look, a couple years ago, a friend of mine, Joe Santa Cuello writes for Philly Voice, he wrote a story that he got reamed for about what a locker room problem, Carson Wenner.

and how the locker room was divided about him. That it wasn't all sunshines and lollipops with this guy. He got reined for it, and he was spot on based on the inquirer story. But I think part of the optimism of Washington ties into the NFC East title because right now they look like pretty good defending champions because there's nobody to challenge them except, you know, maybe the giants, only because smart people think that Daniel Jones can play quarterback in this league, but the Giants still have a long way to go.

So right now, Washington looks like a good defending of that NFTE's title. Like they could repeat. So a couple things. Number one, in 2015, when Washington last won the division, we were saying the same exact thing. The division was a total mess. Washington won the division by winning the last four games to finish nine and seven. They would have won the division at eight and eight. They didn't need to win the last game of the year.

They clinched the division when they beat Philadelphia in the pent ultimate week that year. And then they played Dallas, remember, in the season finale, and they won the game, but they didn't have to. And the division was a train wreck, and the thought was, oh, my God, this division stinks, the whole thing. Well, in 2016, the Cowboys were 13 and 3. The Giants were 11 and 5. Washington was 8-7-1, and the division nearly produced three playoff teams.

The Eagles were in last place at 7 and 9. This goes to my overall NFL year-to-year, week-to-week. It's just impossible. The NFC East could be much better, and I'll tell you why. It could be much better because Dak Prescott could be the starting quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. And it could be a total – that team – if they keep Dak Prescott, let me assure all of you, Washington's not going to be like the prohibitive favorite to win the division. Dallas actually might be the favorite to win the division if Prescott comes back.

Depending on who's playing quarterback for Washington. True, true, 100%, which we're going to get to the Deshawn Watson and some of the other conversations here in a moment. But I've had many people tell me, you know, they're going to win the division next year because they're going to be better. They're going to be at least 9 and 7, even if they don't fix the quarterback. The division's terrible. I'm going to tell you right now that I haven't seen it and I can look for it to see if it's out, but it probably won't be yet. But Dallas, Washington, and even the Giants, all three of those teams will be given

lots of preseason love as far as the division goes. Now you put Matt Stafford on Washington or you put Deshawn Watson on Washington and it's a completely different thing. My point being is that I know there's a lot of optimism about playing in a bad division, but it's really hard to predict. I think Dallas this year with Dak Prescott, even though it started poorly because their defense was such a train wreck. They would have been a different team. They finished six and ten.

Would they have won another game or two with Prescott and maybe won the division? I think definitely that's in play. I don't think there's any question that Prescott would have made a difference for them. They lost, I mean, I'm looking through, you know, they lost a close game to Pittsburgh. We blew him out twice. They did win three of their last four with Dalton when Dalton got on a run. Yeah, I think they would have won another game or two with Prescott. And that they may have been the division champion.

And all of their focus then would have gone on the defense. And they hired Dan Quinn. That's a big time defensive coordinator hire for them to get rid of Mike Nolan. But anyway, the Marty Herney thing netting it out, go look at his record. I've done it. It's not terrible. it's not great. But you know what? Ron Rivera has a relationship with Marty Herney. He's worked with him. He believes in him. Ron Rivera gets to make the decision. And as far as I'm concerned, he's earned the trust of knowing what fits and what the organization needs right now. He's worked with Rob Rogers before. That's important because Rogers is the cap guy, the numbers guy, the contract guy. All three of them have worked together. And you can sit there and tell me that,

Carolina's results weren't that great with all three of them. You know what? In the last, since 2013, and I know that Herney wasn't there, but a lot of his players that he drafted were, they've been to the playoffs four times. They won 12 games, 15 games, and 11 games, and they were in a Super Bowl. Do I need to go back and read Washington's last, you know, seven years? So I think we've seen something else. Yeah.

Sports writers make damn good gentlemen. man. I've heard that. I've heard sports talk. Ernie Ernie a Colsey. Who took the Giants to a Super Bowl. You're being serious. Was a sports writer. That's right. Yeah, I'm being serious. I know. I thought you were kidding it first. Frank, Frank Cashin was a Baltimore sports writer. He took the Mets to a World Series. I mean, they should hire more sports riders in the front office. Anyway, those that think this is a retread or a friend or whatever. you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

And by the way, you might be right. You might be right. But I am not, I can't find enough to be overly critical. And I think I'm more in the camp of, I just feel like Rivera understands what he needs. And as long as the owner stays out of the way, this organization's in a much better spot. By the way, the other thing that the, this guy, David Newton mentioned to me, that, you know, that he really, that last, like there are subtle draft choices that he's made and subtle influences to picks like Christian McCaffrey in 2017.

And then this year, Jeremy Chin, he said he traded up for this guy. He said, nobody really disputes that Herney's got a decent, you know, a decent evaluating eye. And he's very good at finding good people. Of course, Greg Hardy would be an example of, against that, but he drafted Greg Hardy in the fifth or sixth round. But Jeremy Chin, who he traded up for in the 2020 draft last spring, is going to finish either second or third behind Chase Young and the rookie of the year voting. It'll be Winfield Jr. Young's going to win it, and then Winfield Jr. and Chin will be on that list. They also drafted, you know, he was instrumental in drafting last year. Derek Brown, who was one of my favorite players in the draft, started off very slowly, but turned into a monster. at the end of the year. I think Carolina is actually on the way to some good years. I think they've got a good coach and Matt Rule. Anyway, and if they're better next year, it's in part because the herni drafts of the last few years. McCaffrey and Samuel in 2017, DJ Moore, you know, he drafted

from Maryland in 2018. Burns, he drafted in 2019. Burns looks like a really good player. You know, a lot of people were like Burns or sweat. He went with Burns at 16. Washington you know, obviously took Haskins, so he had his choice of burns or sweat. Derek Brown this year, along with Gross Maddos and Jeremy Chin, all significant contributors on Carolina's team this year. Anyway, okay, I want to do the sports talk radio thing on Deshawn Watson, and then I want to get to your column from yesterday right after this word from one of our sponsors. Do you want to weigh in it all on any of the playoffs games from over the week?

weekend. You don't have to. But did you have any thoughts on the four games or the two games that we're going to see this weekend? You can save your predictions for the Thursday show, but did you have anything? Well, I mean, the two things that struck me was how the NFL has changed five years ago, Deshaun Jackson would not have come out of that game with concussion protocol. And Deshaun Jackson? Deshawn Watson. I mean, not Deshawn Watts. Lamar Jackson.

Lamar Jackson. Yeah. And Patrick Mahomes may have gone back in the game five years ago in Kansas City. I mean, so, I mean, the concussion protocol really had an impact, particularly obviously with Mahomes, at least visually for May this weekend. And the whole Ravens game turned on that interception from 10 to 10 to 17 to 3. or at least 10 to 6, which would have kept him in the game. Yeah. Cooley and I talked about Lamar Jackson a lot on the show yesterday.

If you missed the show yesterday, Cooley and I went through each game. It was actually fun to do because there was a lot to the four games this weekend, so go back and listen to it if you didn't, especially in the Browns Chiefs game. A lot of you disagreed with me, and that's fine on the Andy Reid decision. Again, let me just repeat. I thought it was a ballsy decision, and I think with Mahomes you make that decision. I'm just telling you that from my standpoint, Cleveland's best chance to win the game was Kansas City snapping the ball on that fourth down, that if they had punted that there

wasn't much of a chance of them winning that game, their best chance. I agree with that. I agree with you. The best chance was to somehow have, you know, Chad Henney F up that, you know, throw to Tyree Kill or something to go wrong and for Cleveland to take over with no timeouts with a minute to go at midfield. Anyway, yeah, the concussion thing's really, it's so funny because you as a columnist, and I think, don't you think sometimes that essentially the job you've had on radio and coming up with ideas for topics, by the way, more than one or two a week, you can come up with

one or two a day, is similar to sort of, I mean, I know it is because you get a lot of, you've gotten a lot of your column ideas from the radio show or even the podcast over the years. What's your question? I don't get it. I was going to say that as you were sitting there describing the concussion thing, I just thought that sounds like a Tommy column. And yet for me, all I care about were the games. And I didn't want to see Lamar Jackson come out if he wasn't really concussed. I just wanted to see him. I wanted to see the Ravens have the best chance of winning. Anyway, I don't know where I, that's where I was going with it, because it just reminded me of sort of, I've seen you in action and I've seen you start to jot down notes after a conversation.

And I know that you're thinking, ah, that's a good idea for a column. Well, you're right. You're right. And that would be a good idea for a column. But I'm only writing once a week these days. And so, I mean, by the time I write my column for next Monday, it won't be about concussions, you know, a week and a half ago. but you're right. That's a natural column. I'm not the only one. I'm sure there's lots of people who have written it. Are you allowed to put out your own column on a website or it's got to be exclusive to the Times?

No, I'm allowed to. I'm a contractor. I'm not an employee. So why don't you put out more work? Because I don't work for free. Well, I mean, put out. You want to pay me? I'm not going to pay you to write a column. I don't think anybody else. I don't think you could charge. a subscriber fee for your column. It would be... But I love reading your columns

now that you're cutting and pasting and sending them to me. So why don't you talk about your column from yesterday? Okay. Well, last week, when Romo Vera went on 106-7 a fan and said how he regretted not creating more opportunities for quarterbacks

to take snacks, in other words, you know, have some sort of a competition among the quarterbacks. I thought to myself, that's a pretty stunning admission for the head coach to make at the end of the year. I mean, for a veteran head coach to make, this is not a guy who's like in his second and third year of being a head coach in the NFL. Bill. And it's a question that everybody would normally, one of the first questions in training camp of any camp that doesn't have a superstar quarterback is, is there going to be a competition? Ron Rivera said multiple times from the day he was hired that there was going to be a quarterback competition. He said it the day he was hired. He said it the day they traded for Kyle Allen.

he said it at the start of training camp that there'd be a competition and then all of a sudden there wasn't one why why wasn't there one are you going to tell me that dwayne haskins outworked Alex Smith and kyle allen or knew the playbook better didn't you see the videos he was sending out all summer on twitter yes i know i know i know him play a catch with antonio brown That was great stuff. So, I mean, there's no, something doesn't add up. You have the coach saying he wished he had a competition, him saying, oh, half the year that there was going to be a competition,

and then there wasn't one. That doesn't compute. Okay. So what is your conclusion, counselor? Well, my conclusion is that the owner leaned on him and said, you know, I mean, you know, it's funny because Haskins, I mean, he made this comment when he named, named Haskins the starting quarterback. This is what he said when he named Haskins in January.

He's lived up to his part of our conversation when he named Haskins to start in September. He's lived up to his part of our conversation in January. Because of that, I'm living up to mine. He deserves the opportunity. He's going to get my support. That's, like I said, that's more like testimony than you. Yeah, I read that line. I mean, that's basically saying, you know, what I think happened.

I have no information that happened, but it adds up is the owner at one point said, give him a chance. You know, if he works hard, let him, you know, he should be the starter. So basically what Dwayne didn't do is he didn't necessarily win the job, but he didn't lose the job. He didn't do anything to lose the job. And Dan Snyder's mind, Dwayne Haskins was the starting quarterback. The day Ron Rivera was hired, the day they traded for Kyle Allen, and the day training camp open.

I don't care what Ron Rivera has said to anybody over the last year. He said it to me when I asked him point blank at some point in the spring when I had him on the radio show. Was there any sort of commitment that you made to Dan Snyder to give Dwayne Haskins a chance to be the starting quarterback? you know, and he said absolutely not. Dan didn't put any of that on me. You'd have to be completely naive or have not lived through the last 21 years to think that part of the conversation when he interviewed and talked to Ron Rivera about this job was, what do you think of Duane Haskins? And then if there was any answer other than, yeah, I'm just not really sure, you know, Mr. Snyder. there would have been, I think you're going to love him.

I mean, he's such a good young kid. I really, really, the guy that I want to hire, I want him to give, I really want Dwayne to get a chance. You're going to love him. You're going to absolutely love the kid. He's got such a great arm. And look, there's no way that that conversation didn't take place. Now, I guess it's possible that Ron Rivera just said, look, he'll get a chance, but I can't

promise you anything. That is, you know, it's possible. and Rivera made a mistake. And by the way, he admitted it. You didn't read the quote. He said, I'm saying I made a mistake and I'm owning up to it about not having more people in a legitimate competition. But I don't think it was a mistake. I think that's what he wanted to have the competition.

Yes. I don't think it slipped his mind. Yeah. I really believe pandemic or no pandemic. And it bothers me, but I'm going to give you the flip side of this in a moment. I really felt all along that Rivera was going to have to give Haskins a chance. And that Rivera would give Haskins a chance because 2020 was going to be a throwaway season anyway. It wasn't going to be a season where they, you know, were going to contend for anything.

and it shouldn't have been, you know, at 7 and 9, which, you know, was an overachieving season, but they, you know, they were in this division that we talked about. But the flip side to that is, like Marty Schottenheimer in 2001, he bailed quickly. You know, he didn't let this, you know, go on and linger and go on and on and on. Look, when he benched him at the end of September, I said, this was a sham. This was a total sham. And several people who I know said, I think he really beat him out. I think he really beat out Kyle Allen. I go, okay, four games into it,

he's bailing on a schedule like the one they have faced. No. He knew this from the moment he took the job. By the way, I remember this the other day, and I wrote it down, and I've not said this yet to you or coolly. Gibbs was on radio with me last, after the Rivera hire, and I remember asking him about Haskins. And he said, well, and this, you know, this is, you know, this is. is as close to being critical as Joe Gibbs can get. I remember you talking to me about this after listening to it. He said he's got to prove that he can lead and be a leader. And if he can't prove that, then they'll have to, you know, go somewhere else. Like Gibbs was basically saying immature can't be a leader as much as Gibbs could. You know, so Gibbs and Rivera both knew that Haskins was not going to be the long future at quarterback. And my, my biggest criticism of that, I believe that to be true. My big, and I think you believe that to be true. My biggest criticism is Rivera, like Shanahan and others.

Now, he got to dump them much faster than, you know, Mike got to get out of it or even Jay got to get out of it, not as quickly as Marty got to get out of Jeff George after, you know, two starts. This was four starts. But really what would have been best for the organization, would have been for Rivera to look Dan or Mr. Snyder in the eyes and say, he's not my guy. I don't believe in him. I've talked to many people about him. We have to change a culture, and part of changing that culture is we can't have people like Dwayne Haskins on the football team. You made a mistake if it was yours or your personnel people made a mistake in drafting him. I'm not going to keep him. And in fact, before we give him a time,

chance, which will only prove my point, we're going to trade him and get as much as we can get for him right now, because that would have been the best move for the organization. Whether or not Kyle Allen, you're right. When you said, I think part of why he didn't push back so much was because this was considered a throwaway year. And I think he, if he's as smart as I think he is, he probably knew that Dwayne Haskins would expose himself. Yeah, but the decision would be made, you know, the decision would be easy to make that.

That's, that's my, yeah, no, you just described exactly what I think he was thinking all along is that, but I don't like that thinking. I much prefer the thinking of, look, you're the owner, but I haven't signed a contract. yet, and I'm just telling you, I'm not wasting time. And putting him out on the field may expose him even more to where we won't get anything for him. Right now, we might be able to deal him for something. Like, you've got to be bold like that.

And, you know, he wasn't. That is a criticism I have of Ron Rivera's first year in the organization, is that despite him saying, ah, the owner will see it. and we're not going to the playoffs this year anyway. And, you know, this will be part of the culture purge. Eventually, we'll move on from him at the end of the year. And Kyle is going to be the starter. And that's why we traded for Kyle.

I would have much rather than said, no, let's do right now. We can trade him right now. Just like with Trent Williams, we can trade him right now, rather than trying to prove some stupid point. It's better for the organization to get a first round pick or a second and a third or two-twos and a four. rather than getting essentially nothing. It's much better right now to get something for Dwayne Haskins versus getting nothing,

which, by the way, they're going to get nothing for Dwayne Haskins. So you've got to have the strength and your convictions, and I think he knew it, and I just think he decided this was going to be one of those battles. He wasn't going to pick. He was going to let the owner see it for his own eyes rather than tell him, you don't know what you're seeing. And, you know, he could have said, look, who is the guy that made this pick? I know it wasn't you.

Whoever made this pick made a big mistake. But remember, he did say Carolina had a first round grade on him. He did say that. He did. Now, you know, I think that that's what happened. And I think if you read between the lines of this admission that he made a mistake, that, you know, he wished he had a con. competition. I think what he is telling you is that he wanted to have the competition,

but he wasn't able to. I would go a step further and say that deep down, the mistake he made was not telling the owner right from the beginning. This is not the person. And right now is the last opportunity we're going to have to get something back for him. You used a first rounder on him. Let's get a third or a fourth back for him right now. I get there, I got three teams. that I think think that they can make this work. I think that's almost the admission, even though he wouldn't say that. Let me tie his comments to reporters at the end of the year press conference to that.

This is what people asked him about meeting with Dan Snyder. He said, basically, he said, I will visit with the owner at some point, whether it's tonight or tomorrow, and basically talk to him about my name, My intent going forward. From that point on, we'll start the evaluation process of our football team. Obviously, the quarterback situation will be one of the topics of conversation.

My intent, he said. I will tell the owner what I want to do. That wasn't a slip of the tongue. That was on purpose. He told everybody, I'm going in to tell the owner my intent. Right. Well, you know, by the way, the other thing with this is how many times did he refer to looking at the first four or five games on the schedule? You know, Philly, Arizona, Cleveland, Baltimore, L.A. And the truth is, even if he had made the decision with Kyle Allen, they may not have won those games with Kyle Allen either, you know. They may not have. So, and they won one of them, actually. They won the opener, as it turns out Philadelphia sucked. But the, I think he knew. I mean, the bottom of.

line is whether or not, you know, he succumbed to, you know, some level of quid pro quo on, I'm going to give him a shot and, you know, I'll do that. I'll do you a solid and I will give him a chance. But, you know, and he may have said, but if he's not the right guy, we're not going to, we're not going to, this isn't going to last long. I just think he knew from the beginning that it wasn't the right guy. I think Gibbs knew when he told me he needs to prove that he can be a leader that he wasn't the right guy. And that they should have moved on him when they could have gotten something for him. That's what good organizations do.

It's just like the Kirk Cousins thing, not to go back to that. But good organizations are able to see a little bit into the future and act before it gets super expensive to act. And it's super expensive not to have gotten anything back for him. But since the outcome was okay, it's no big deal, you think. right? The outcome being seven to nine in a postseason and they got to cut them. And they got the coach seems in the

position to pick the quarterback now. Yeah, I mean, I think that's true. But again, again, they could have gotten something for him. Listen, I'm not saying this is a good idea. I'm not saying the reaction I got from fans

from this column was, we don't care. Everything's good now. Yeah, that's fine. But that short-sighted because if everything were really, really good, look, the owner, the owner went in and basically said, we're not following the draft board that you've worked over a year to put together. Sorry, this is who we're drafting. And so this was the owner, really, the last chance after he turned Ron Rivera into the culture-changing coach-centric, you know, central figure in the organization. this was the last chance to have an imprint on a positive future.

You know, is to have Dwayne Haskins be the quarterback. And he could say when they, you know, in his own whacked out mind, if they had success. See? I was right about that. Because there's nothing else other than hiring Ron Rivera that he can take credit for. And that may be something that really works out in his behalf. But he wanted to be right about Haskins. He absolutely wanted to be right about Haskins Because you know what Tommy?

He hadn't done that in a while And people were pissed off that day You had people that were like You've got to be kidding me Anyway I want to just But it's all good Seven and nine baby

Well again I mean It's more than seven and nine It's an arrow pointed upward But there is a big void And that void right now is do they have the kind of quarterback that you can have sustained success with? I do want to talk a little bit more about Deshawn Watson, maybe even a little bit more about Matt Stafford. And we'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors.

So the Deshaun Watson story over the weekend with four divisional playoff games being played really became, you know, a massive NFL story beyond just the games. I mean, you had the normal coaching hires and GM stuff, and then you have this Deshawn Watson thing that is really blown up in Houston. By the way, I don't know if you saw this, Tommy, but Deshawn Watson tweeted yesterday, people in Houston were going to hold some sort of march on his behalf. A parade or some kind of march of support. Yeah, a march of support for Deshaun Watson.

And he tweeted out, I'm hearing there is a march plan on my, behalf in Houston today. Although I'm humbled, I ask that whoever is organizing the march cancel for the sake of public safety. COVID is spreading at a high rate and I don't want any fans to unnecessarily expose themselves to infection. That's a great tweet. And also, by the way, speaks a little bit to his humility. Like, I mean, I bet even without a COVID thing, he might be a little bit embarrassed about that. That's the way he strikes me anyway. This is such a crazy situation. It's really

unprecedented that a quarterback at 25 years old who is truly, you know, you could describe as elite, as an elite quarterback, could be available. I don't think personally he will.

I'm going to stick with that position and I may be, I may be wrong about this. Maybe it's going to get to a situation that it's so untenable that Houston says, you know, what, we can trade him to Jacksonville and get Trevor Lawrence, or we can trade him to Miami and get Tua, and we can salvage this somehow. But you can't find a time in which a debatable top five elite quarterback at 25 years old, who was just signed to a $156 million deal less than a year ago with

$110 million guaranteed was on the trade block. It doesn't happen. You're not able to just go out and trade for an elite quarterback. This will make Washington fans feel good because this is what they like to do to feel good. Here's another team that's an absolute disaster. That's an absolute train wreck right now. They really are. The Texans are a poisonous organization. That's the perception.

Yeah. The perception is they're toxic and destructive. And that's one of the main reasons. is why Deshawn Watson wants out. And it's just remarkable what's happened there. And you know what part of what triggered it? I think of speaking of Marty Herney, former PR guy, they fired their beloved PR director.

I've never met her. It was a woman. Oh, my God. That's right, right, right, right. Oh, I've never seen a reaction. I've never seen it. Yeah. Who was that?

The outcry from players. about that was unbelievable. And I think that part has triggered all this. I think there's a perception. You really think that's what it is? Her name was Amy Paltich or something like that. Oh my God. This happened in November.

You're right. I've never seen such an out. I didn't know who she was. I've never dealt with her. I've never seen an outpouring by NFL media people more for, I mean, certainly wasn't that when Tony was. Wiley left, you know? No, JJ Watt went on Twitter and ripped it.

Yeah. My God, most guys, J.J. Watt's statured barely know the PR guy's names. So let me just, I'll start with this. I don't think it'll happen. I think, you know, they can't trade them until the league calendar, league year begins in March. I think over the next month and a half to two months or whatever it is, they'll figure this thing out. If I'm Houston, I got to figure it out. I'm sorry. You just, you have one.

You're one of the teams that has one of the guys that everybody tries to find, whether it's through the draft or whatever. And really, it's through the draft. Because all of the guys that are, the elite guys, were all drafted by the teams that they're playing for, all right? Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen and obviously Lamar Jackson and who am I forgetting from this weekend. Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, you know, Drew Breeze was like, you know, traded for, but he wasn't an elite quarterback at the time, although Nick Saban knew he was going to be. Imagine that. Imagine if Nick Saban had gotten his way and been able to, you know, okay the trade despite the medical on Drew Breeze.

And Drew Breeze have become the quarterback in Miami, and Nick Saban stayed in Miami, and never went to Alabama. Anyway, you don't find these guys. This guy is, I don't care where you have them ranked, whether it's three or six. It's no lower than seven. He is one of the true elite franchise guys at 25 years old. He's the guy, and I know they went four and 12 this year,

Don't hit me with that. They were terrible organization. Bill O'Brien got fired. They got all kinds of shit going on in the organization. He is one of those guys that despite the team around him is going to keep you with a chance over the next 10 years. You don't trade those people. Ernie, of course, he told me once, you want the kind of quarterback that when they get on the team bus, all the players look at this guy and say he gives us a chance to win.

win every week. And he does. Every single. And absolutely he does. I mean, that's, that's who, that's, that's who you want, you want a team who believes in their quarterback like that. And it seems like the coaching hire for Houston is going to dictate that organization's future, uh, not to be just beyond typical coaching. I mean, it seems like there could be a lot of pressure for them to hire Eric Bianamy. What's his name, Bianney? Bianney, yeah. Bianemy.

You know, Watson, um, Watson's one of the guys. That's another debate. If you don't agree with that, you can make the case, but to me, Deshawn Watson is one of those guys.

If you have them, you're going to have a chance at a long run of sustained success, you know? So if you believe that, then you're willing to trade almost anything for. I'll get to that in a moment. But I want to emphasize, I think Houston will figure this out, number one.

Number two, if they can't, then I wouldn't trade him. I'm sorry, I just gave you the biggest contract, and it's not even a year old, and you're going to play for me. And I apologize for giving you and setting an expectation level that you were going to have a much bigger voice in the hiring of a general manager and a head coach. That's a mistake. It's not a mistake in my view, and I forget if you and I talked about this already, I would make sure that Deshawn Watson was kept up to date, maybe even sat down and met with

three or four of the people we were considering as head coaches, because he is the most important person on the roster. He is going to be the face and the leader of this organization from a football standpoint on the field among the players. And I do want to make sure it's a good fit between my quarterback, my head. elite quarterback and the head coach. But I'm not going to set the expectation that he's going to have like a significant voice and he's going to have a thumbs up or thumbs down capability.

And so they made a mistake there even though I would have included him. Like I would have come to him and said, hey, we're talking to some people. And I want you to sit down and I want you, I want you, just tell me what you think about Eric Bien of me. Tell me what you think about Josh McDaniels. Tell me what you think about Todd Bull. anybody that they've brought in. And without setting the expectation, that would have been maybe received differently,

or maybe he already was soured on Bill O'Brien trading away D'Andre Hopkins and some of the terrible trades that the organization's made here in the last couple of years. But if I were, I wouldn't trade him. I would say, sorry, after trying to make it work out and trying to make it less confrontational and trying to, you know, give him some of what he's looking for and compromised to a certain degree, but I would make it very clear to him, I'm not trading you. I just, I can't trade you. I can't guarantee that I'll ever be able to replace you.

And to me, if I trade you, I could be making a much bigger mistake than any of the mistakes that have been made over the last two years because of how good you are and how important the position is. So if you want to hold out, you can hold out. But I'm not trading you. I would be very firm on that if I were Houston. If they do go in a different direction and trade him, here's what I came up with in terms of what Washington would have to give up. Let me be really clear on this too. Watson's got a no trade clause, which means he can basically nix any deal, which

means he can pick the deal that Houston comes up with that he wants, which almost, I mean, whatever. Somebody called in and said, doesn't, don't his actions tell you a little bit about? him. Not really. I've seen him on the field. I've seen the way players react to him. I don't know. I thought Carson Wentz was a leader too. We're dead wrong about him. But let's just assume he is the whole package. You're going to have to give up three number ones, at least one, two, and a star player. So this is what I proposed today to the callers and then I answered it, but I'll propose it to you. would you do your 2021 first rounder, which is 19 overall,

2022 first rounder, 2023 first rounder, three firsts, your second rounder this year, and Montez Sweat for Deshawn Watson? I'm not even sure it's enough. I can tell you this. Miami could offer more attractive packages, but Miami's in the AFC. Jacksonville could offer more attractive packages or package, but they're in the AIF, they're in their division.

The Jets could probably offer a better package, but they're in the AFC. Would you do that? Yes, I would do that. I would do as much as I wouldn't want to get rid of Montez sweat, you know, having a great defense is only going to get you so far compared to having a great quarterback. I not only would do it, I would do it yesterday, twice. Like it's not, here's the way I look at it. Like, it was funny because a lot of people that called in so they wouldn't do it. They said, well, I'd throw in John Allen.

Well, I didn't put John Allen in there because I think everybody would do it. And by the way, I like John Allen a lot as a player. But, you know, part of it is the fact that you're going to have to pay him here shortly. And Montez Sweat's probably more of an impact player. I mean, you've got to include McCorn, sweat, or Chase Young into the conversation to make you hurt a little bit by doing. it, or at least it wouldn't hurt me at all. Now, I don't want, there's one player on the roster that I really wouldn't want to see traded. If you told me I'd get an elite quarterback back,

I think I'd probably do it, but I really would say Chey Chung is off the list. We're not trading him, because I do think that Chey Chung has the potential to be a top two or three player at his position and be a great, you know, havoc-reaking, game-influencing, defensive player in the same way that Kaleel Mack and Fletcher Cox and Aaron Donald and Von Miller and others have been in recent years. But that position doesn't impact a game more than the quarterback position. So if I can get a top seven or six quarterback over a top two defensive player, I would take the quarterback. But on the trade that I proposed, I would do it so quickly, wouldn't even think about it. And here's the thing, Tommy, and this is the best way to describe it.

Washington next year, if they come back with Kyle Allen, Taylor Heineke, and a young draft choice, or even if Alex Smith is in that mix, they will be predicted potentially to win the division, but they'll be way down the list in terms of like true NFC contenders. They may not even be picked to win the division if Dak Prescott comes back to Dallas. If Deshawn Watson were on the team minus three firsts next year's first and second included and Montez-Souet, they would be one of the three teams in the NFC predicted to go to the Super Bowl. Let me just make sure everybody understands how Vegas and handicappers would view it. If Deshawn Watson was the starting quarterback for Washington next year, and they didn't add two players in the first or second round because of it, and they lost Montez Sweat.

They, along with Green Bay, Tampa, you know, with Brady, and probably Seattle still would be right there with those teams, maybe right below the Packers if they get there and win the Super Bowl or the Bucks if they get there and win the Super Bowl. You've got to put the 49ers in that mix. The 49ers will be back in the mix, too, but they've got to shore up their quarterback position too. Yes, they do. But Washington would be a.

legitimate, you know, top three to four favorite to win the NFC and be in the Super Bowl representing the NFC. If he's not the quarterback and what they have on the roster is the quarterback, they may not be picked to win the division. So that's, you can sit here and say, I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't do it. We can build out a team. I'm not giving up the picks. I'm not giving up Montez-Wed.

Okay. you can without, you know, or maybe your answer is I'll give Detroit a first and a fourth for Matt Stafford. And by the way, that's going to increase their chances too in the NFC. People will perceive that to be good. And that's a good alternative. But if your alternative is just to hold on to everything and go with what you got, your chances aren't nearly as good as having that position taken care of, unless you really believe in Taylor Heineke or Kyle Allen is the answer.

answer. And I might want to point out there was not, except for when people got hurt in this weekend, there was not a Taylor Heineke playing this weekend in the NFL playoffs, not one. Right. But I pointed this out to Cooley yesterday because you can just continue. Like, of course, it's Rogers, Brady and Josh Allen Mahomes. It's the top three MVP vote getters and the greatest of all time. But last year in this weekend, Ryan Tannahill and Jimmy Garoppolo were starting quarterbacks. And the year before in this upcoming weekend, Jared Goff was a starting quarterback. And in 2017, my point is, Jared Goff was a number one pick. Yeah, but he's not a good, but he's not an elite quarterback. But that doesn't matter. I mean, no, guys off the street.

Okay, well. I'm not playing in the NFL playoffs. Okay, well, in 2017, Nick Foles, Case Keenham, and Blake Bortles were starting quarterbacks going into this weekend. So, look, I think you can, like Jacksonville did, like Minnesota that year did, like Philadelphia did that year, you can hit the inside straight. What you're not going to have without a quarterback, without a legit franchise quarterback, is you're not going to have a chance at a long run of, you know, going into. every year knowing that more likely than not, we're going to win nine plus games and be in the playoffs. Because that's what Brady's provided. That's what Rogers has provided. That's what

Josh Allen, I really believe, is going to provide. That's what Patrick Mahomes is going to provide. Look, the guy that we were just talking about, all right, Deshawn Watson, if you go back, this is by memory now. So I got to do this. They started off really strong his rookie year. He had a great start to the season, and then he got hurt, and he was out the rest of the year. Okay, and they did not go to the playoffs. But they went to the playoffs in 2018. They went to the playoffs in 2019. Remember last year, they came back and beat Buffalo in the playoff game, and they were up 24-0 at Arrowhead against the Chiefs. And then this year was a fall-apart season because, you know, they traded their second best player, and the coach was, the whole thing.

The funny thing is they were in so many of those games that they lost this year against good teams. You know, they had a chance to be Pittsburgh early when Pittsburgh was playing well. They blew a lead and lost in overtime to the Titans. I'm just thinking out loud. They had a chance to beat Cleveland. He was the one that kept him competitive all year long. But anyway, I would do it. I wouldn't even think twice about it, but I don't think it's even remotely a possibility.

Like even if Houston does get to the point where they're like, okay, we'll do this, there are more attractive trade partners than Washington. Yeah, I agree. But I would do it too. I'm with you on that. Okay. Before we go, let's just go on want to weigh in on John Lester. I want you to right after this word from one of our sponsors. You wanted to weigh in on the Nats signing John Lester to a one-year deal.

You know, Mike Rissau, you got to give him credit. He still keeps this team competitive. The pieces that he added this year, Josh Bell, Pyle Schorber, and now John Lester. I mean, you have to. I mean, because the National League East, the Mets are going to be competitive, the Braves are going to be competitive, the Marlins, the Phillies. You got to keep up. And he keeps them up. For a number four starter, John Lester seems.

like a great pick. I mean, a great pickup. You don't know, he's 37 years old. You don't know really how much he has left in a tank. Last year, he was up and down. He had some great starts, and then he had some poor starts. But last year was a bizarre year for everybody, too. He's another left-hander. You know, he's a fourth starter in your rotation. I think they absolutely needed to have a quality fourth starter brought in for them. So I think I'd like it. He's only going to get $2 million this year. I think a lot of that money is deferred.

So, you know, my only suspicion would be the Cubs didn't want them back. And they could have got them back cheap. On the other hand, there's a different decision maker in Chicago right now. Working for the nationals is Davey Martinez knows him from Chicago. And more importantly, the pitching coach, Jim Hickey, the new Natt's pitching coach, knew him, knows him from Chicago. I like the pickup. For a fourth starter, I mean, it's definitely worth a shot.

Absolutely. All right. The thing that I love about Rizzo, he has been consistent more in his time at GM. It's always about starting pitching. And he'll go out and get it at any cost. and not that Lester was expensive, but it's always about starting pitching. I wanted to mention two other quick things before we go. Number one, if you're a Maryland basketball fan, read Emily G.M. Volvo's column about recruiting and Turgeon and this guy Hunter Dickinson, who plays from Michigan, who Maryland plays tonight.

They did recruit him. This would be a great big-time revenge game. This is a tall task for Maryland at Michigan. Michigan's just loaded, but it would be such a great payback win because this guy really was a dick when he came to college park and was taunting Maryland's bench during the game and making comments that were complete and utter fabrications about Maryland not recruiting him. I know Dustin Clark really well. He was the assistant for Mark for a while. Marilyn offered this kid when he was a sophomore. But Emily wrote a really good column on that if you're a fan of Maryland basketball.

and just, you know, how loaded this area is. And Turgeon has recruited Baltimore and Washington better than other, you know, perceived teams from outside the market have. But obviously there have been a couple of big ones in Luca Garza and Hunter Dickinson here in the last couple of years. They've gotten away in Maryland's weakness this year is they don't have a big man. Lastly, I was going to get to this RG3 thing, Tommy. He got released by Baltimore tomorrow. Let's save it for Thursday. We can get to it then.

enjoy the podcast everybody. Have a great day back tomorrow.