The Kevin Sheehan Show - Good Enough For Now

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Kevin opened the show with a detailed recap of Washington's 20-9 win over Cincinnati. Thom joined the show (Cooley tomorrow) with his thoughts and then the conversation turned towards how and what Alex Smith's recent performances actually mean. They talked about some of the other NFL games including the Chiefs-Raiders classic and the Colts win over the Packers. Kevin defended Kirk per usual and then the boys talked about the Friday layoffs of three of their friends at The Team 980. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Smith goes to his ways towards the end zone. It's caught. Touchdown.

Steven Sims. And Washington back in front. A 20 to 9 win over the Bengals with a big injury in the game. A sad injury, actually. but a result that keeps Washington very much in the hunt and with a chance to play a game on Thanksgiving Day that has meaning. I've mentioned this many times over the years. It's like, you know, I recognize what this franchise is. The Super Bowl and deep into the playoffs seems like it's not necessarily been a possibility over the years.

So what are you hoping for? Well, you know what? how about we get to Thanksgiving and we can play some games that matter? They're three and seven, but on Thursday at 4.30, they'll go to Dallas and play the Cowboys in a game where the winner will actually be in first place at 4 and 7. Now, the Giants play on Sunday against the Bengals without Joe Burrow and the Eagles play Monday night against Seattle. But a win on Thanksgiving Day and Washington is going to be legitimately in the hunt to win the division the rest of the way. Kooley today. Tommy will join me after my game take. Kooley will be with me tomorrow. You'll get his follow-up to the game and you'll get a film breakdown tomorrow. But Tom's going to join me here

today and then that'll be it for Tom for the week because Thursday's Thanksgiving so we won't have them on there. Tommy will join me in not only giving his thoughts in the game after I give you mine here momentarily, but we'll talk a little bit about what happened. at 980 the other day, which was an acquisition and some layoffs of some very good friends of ours. And we'll do that at the very end of the show. Let's get started with my game take. Pay attention. Here's Kevin's Game Take. All right, before I get to the list of things that I liked and didn't like and a few other observations, big picture on this, I really felt like if they didn't win yesterday and on

Thanksgiving Day that it was time to focus on 2021. But I'm not focused on 2021 right now. I don't think you should be either. I think the last five games, regardless of the opponents, which have hardly been, you know, a collection of difficult teams, it's hardly been murderers row using that old expression. They are, you know, two and three in their last five games, and the three losses are by a total of seven points. They play another team on Thanksgiving Day and the Cowboys that they can beat to get to four and seven. They're in a division that stinks. I think they should be playing these games, I do think, help them. Playing games late in the season that have meaning in terms of the standings and in terms of a possible playoff berth, I don't think is a bad thing, especially when

most of your players are going to be a part of your program moving forward. And most of their players are young players on defense and offense, not a quarterback. But most of these people are in the plans for 2021. So you might as well play as many games that matter at the end of the year as you can. I think that's something to build on. Were they overly impressive yesterday against a bad team? No, but I think there were reasons for that. And I think they were impressive enough. But, you know, I'm not sure what else you could ask for when you've had all the drama and all the craziness. They're three and seven. They're not a good team. They're won't be a good team this year. Okay, they're not going to be a good team this year. But the issue is

whether or not they're good enough to have games that matter to potentially make a playoff this year and to build on that for the years to come. And I think that opportunity exists. All right, let me get to the things I liked and didn't like. I'm going to start with this. I liked Alex Smith again. Last week, I thought he was exceptional. I think yesterday he was accurate all day, short and long stuff. I love that they took deep shots. I thought the early deep shot to McLaren for 42 yards was a great throw and catch. He took another deep shot to Terry where they could have called, I thought.

I thought it was close to a potential PI penalty on Jackson, but they didn't. He drew a PI penalty on a deeper throw later in the game. The touchdown pass to Sims Jr., where he had to hold onto that ball for just an extra beat and then throw the perfect ball was a great throw. The RPO throw to McClure for 25 yards, excellent. He got away from an unblocked blitz on third and nine and got rid of the ball, threw it away before the field goal that made it 17 to 9 in the third quarter. He's just so decisive and sure of what he's seeing right now.

You know, he made a third and two throw to McKissick out of the backfield that was perfectly led so that McKissick could not only catch it, but make a 20. 12-yard play. He knew where it would be open on third and two and went to it. I thought one of the throws that he'd like to have back maybe was a third and four to Sims Jr. that may have been just a little bit off, and Sims Jr. didn't catch it necessarily in stride. He got three yards. You know, obviously the interception was a deflection off that dude Marcus Hunt, who's 6'8. He was 17 of 25 for 166 yards with one touchdown and one in that deflected interception. Those are hardly like, you know, gaudy numbers. But they didn't really have

the ball that much in the first half. But I just thought he was solid all day long. And his overall story just keeps getting better because there is no doubt about one thing. He's back. You know, he's back and capable of being a starting NFL quarterback. Now, where you'd put him on the list of starting quarterbacks, not super high, obviously, not top half of the league more likely than not, but his knowledge. And I think the benefit that he has right now playing in a system with a play caller that suits him well in Scott Turner, with, to be honest with you, better weapons than any of us thought before the season started surrounding him, I think he's been good. I'm shocked by it. Most of you know where I was two and a half three weeks ago. I thought they should have waived him.

I thought we were going to see something maybe not totally equaling the second half of the Rams game, but something that would never be nearly good enough. And I didn't want to see him exposed like he was in that Rams game. But the coaches knew. They knew better. You know, yesterday was his first win, nearly two years to the date of the injury that came on the weekend before Thanksgiving, 2018. He's played well the last two and a half games. He faces on Thursday against the Cowboys a faster defense

than the ones they face the last few weeks. Dallas won't look statistically like a great defense, and they're not a great defense, but they do have speed in their front seven, and they'll come after them on Thursday. It'll be interesting to see what kind of game plan Turner comes up with and how Alex plays against a team that will really get after him, I think, a little bit more than the teams here over the last couple of weeks. And then it's Pittsburgh after that, the best defense you could argue in football. on the list of things that I liked. Alex Smith kicks off that list. And then I moved to they ran the football, especially in the second half. Antonio Gibson, 16 carries 94 yards.

His last two carries were for like minus 7 yards. So it was actually 14 for over 100 before they really took their pedal off the, took their foot off the gas pedal. J.D. McKissick, 6 carries 43 yards. Peyton Barber, 8 carries 28 yards. In total, they were 35. carries for a buck 64, 4.8 yards per carry, 117 of the 164 coming in the second half of that game. I thought Gibson ran with better vision yesterday, still not always great, but tremendous

after contact power. He is deceptively strong. I love that about Gibson. He's a big dude, he runs hard, he runs with a unique sort of laid back style, but he's powerful. He had runs in the game of 19 yards, 16 yards, 16 yards, and 13 yards. That's really good. McKissick averaged over 7 yards per carry. Running the football was a big part of the second half success offensively. They came out throwing the ball to start the game. They ended up running it successfully, and at times very dominantly. On the things I liked list, Terry McLorn, he's the best they've had in years at the position. It's really not close. I mean, Garsohn and Jackson, not him.

I mean, I loved Pierre, and Deshaun, when he was healthy, I don't think either one of them is Terry McLaren in terms of the potential. He is a must pay attention to wide out. Five catches, 84 yards, 16.8 yards per catch, the second best for him this year. He's on pace for 100 plus. He'd be the third player in franchise history with 100 plus catches. Pierre Garsohn had that a few years back, and Art Monk was the first to do it. I thought the offensive line did a really nice job. there was a couple of early pressures given up by Moses at left tackle, but I thought he looked good at left tackle for the most part.

I thought Schweitzer at times look good. These are things that Cooley will have more insight on. I think it's always hard for us to evaluate interior line play in particular on the offense, unless somebody's getting beat like a drum consistently, but I thought it was pretty good. I'm going to give Scott Turner some credit again. I've done it a couple of times this year, but he's on the list of things I liked list. You know, he's doing a very good job with his quarterback and with the weapons they have. He gets the ball to his playmakers, McLaren, McKissick, Gibson, when they want to run it. Cam Sims now. But he also really spreads it around. I mean, I'm not sure defenses really know where they're going next with the football. The quarterback is big in all of this, okay, and let's not sugarcoat it.

when he's when he got the quarterbacks that he preferred, Kyle Allen and now Alex Smith, he preferred both to Dwayne Haskins. The offense has been much better. I mean, forget the opponents. That's a big part of it. I understand that, but it's been much better. He's got wrinkles in his run game now with motion, and they run inside zone, they run outside zone, they run some power.

They mostly run out of shotgun. They've got movement. They've got motion. You know, his pass offense looks really good. with the right guys running it. The ball is out quickly. Much of the time, there seems to always be somebody open, even when it's a checkdown.

Sometimes the play looks like it's called a checkdown, and what's wrong with a first and 10 checkdown for seven yards? Nothing. He took shots yesterday. Deep downfield, he's got a quarterback right now that is one step ahead of the defenses he's played recently. We'll see if it continues. Scott Turner and his quarterbacks have

really been effective. I think there's some creativity in what he's doing. I don't know how deep the playbook is, but he's schemed it up pretty well and had a good feel for play calling, I think, in some of these games, and he did yesterday. I'm going to put something on the list of things that I liked list that maybe you would disagree with, but let me explain. The defense made some plays late in the first half, excuse me, and at the beginning of the second half, that kept the game from becoming lopsided. First of all, Darby had some really good breakups of deep shots in the first half that were huge. They also got a bit lucky. I mean, Bullock missed a 34-yard field goal, and then there was a fumble, although it was forced by

Chase Young. But you wonder why Matt LaFleur made the decision to go for a fourth and goal from the three. Wasn't from the one, wasn't from the one and a half or two. It was from the three-yard line. And then at the end of the first half, Cincinnati had a chance to extend that 9 to 7 lead. They were down 7-6, and they had a false start penalty, which helped, but that drive ended in a field goal that made it 9 to 7. Then they got the deflection and the interception, and they couldn't really gain any yards. And the defense forced Bullock to attempt a 58-yarder that missed, and so the score remained 9-7 at halftime. So I thought the defense, and you'll hear it on the things that I didn't like from the game yesterday when I get to that list, but they made a couple of key plays in the first half that really were helpful.

And then in the second half, the first two Cincinnati drives, I'm talking about the drives with Burrow at quarterback before he left the game. They had figured something out. I think they seemed to have adjusted defensively on those first two drives, the second of which ended with Burrow getting hurt on the third and two and completed pass. But the defense figured something out on those first two drives. The punter hadn't punted all day, and then he punted after two, three and outs to start the second half. On the list of things I liked, Darby and Fuller, both excellent all day. You know, corners are going to give up some things in today's NFL.

They're not going to make every play, but the key is, did they make more than they got beat on? and I thought both of them did. Fuller got hurt too, who was banged up a little bit. I thought Morland made some plays too. And then Moreau had an interception late in the game. Darby had the two deep shot breakups, nearly had an interception in the end zone before the fourth and three that they went for. He jumped a slant.

I thought he was excellent. Tressway was excellent yesterday. He's on my list of things I liked. He had barely punted in previous weeks. no more than two times in a game. A couple of games where he punted just once. He did have to punt five times yesterday, which was the most active he's been. He averaged 50.4 yards on those five punts, had three inside the 20, two inside the 10. It was a great day for Tressaway.

Lastly, on the things that I liked list, Joe Burrow, the opposing quarterback, man, did he look good? He is, he's guy, he sees it, he gets it out quickly. He carved up Washington in the first half. You know, if you want to see the difference between a quarterback that sees it and gets it out quickly versus one that does not, look at the difference between Burrow and then Finley, who came in for him. It's too bad that he got hurt. I mean, from a Washington standpoint, it was good to have him out of the game, but it would have been better had he just had a Nick and he was back next week. You know, it's funny that they didn't show the replay of the injury.

I saw it, many of you did on social media because the Red Zone ran it. It was not the worst I've ever seen by a long shot. John Allen basically pushed the offensive lineman that was trying to block him into the backfield with Montez's sweat coming from the backside. There's no doubt the knee got bent and contorted into a look that was not attractive. But, you know, it's weird that CBS didn't show it. They've shown a lot worse over the years. Maybe they're making it a policy to move away from that. But Burrow, man, he was so good.

His 21 completions in the first half, he was the most for an NFL quarterback in the first half of a game this year. So the defense was not great. He was carving it up. Now, as to whether or not Washington would have won the game had Burrow not been hurt, well, let's keep in mind that he went out after a second three and out to start the second half. Washington scored on the next drive to take a 14 to 9 lead. I think it was a toss-up if he had stayed in the game. I don't think it was like this lock that Cincinnati would have won the game.

But anyway, we do know this. When Ryan Finley came into the game, it was over because that dude held onto it too long and the pass rushers got home and it was over at that point. But Burrow really impressive to watch. All right, the list of things that I did not like from the game. For the most part, the first half defense, they couldn't get off the field. You know, Burrough, as I mentioned, was 21 of 29 for 195 yards in a touchdown, and they had the ball for 20 minutes or 19 minutes, just over 19 minutes to just under 11 minutes for Washington.

They ran 42 offensive plays to Washington's 23. Seven different guys caught balls from Burrow in the first half. there just wasn't enough pressure in the first half on Borough. With that said, he was getting it out of there so quickly. He was hard to generate any pressure, but the defense needs to get off the field. It needs to be overwhelmingly dominant. At least up front, I didn't think it was,

until a couple of the key plays they made. They did make a couple of good plays. On the list of things I don't like or didn't like from the game, God, Troy Apkey's a problem. You know, in addition to the spatial issues he's got, and figuring out, you know, space and taking bad angles. He's not a great tackler. You know, that play, the fourth and goal from the three that Burrow held on to,

Apkey was the one that slowed him down that allowed Chase Young to get there and knock the ball out with a big hit. But Apkees doesn't even go to tackle him. He just lowers his shoulder. Like, stop lowering your shoulder and trying to run through guys. Tackle him. He had another bad tackling effort on another play. And I think he's pretty good at the line of scrimmage usually.

He also dropped that interception on that one of those first two drives of the second half, which would have given him great field position. I just think Troy Apke right now, they've got to play him unless he go out and sign somebody else. But he's not the answer there. I think we've all learned that. Dustin Hopkins, he makes his first two kicks, including breaking Mark Mosley's franchise record for 50-plus-yard field. goals and then he misses a 38-yarder at the end of the game. Come on, Dustin. You got to stop missing 38-yard kicks. He pushed this one to the right. And I thought maybe there's a chance if he makes this one he's going to head into Dallas with a ton of confidence. It didn't work out that way.

At the same time, I don't think I'd release him. I just don't know that you're going to get anything a lot better, but I think he is now 30th among 32 kickers and field goal percentage, made percentage. A couple of other quick things. Logan Thomas, how about that quarterback sneak play where he went in motion, the jump behind center, took a snap as a former quarterback and snuck it for two yards on a third and two. That was creative, and it worked, although I thought he was stopped short, but they gave him a kind spot. The challenge by Rivera on the AJ Green sideline catch, I think was worth it. You know, it turned out that he was.

was wrong to challenge it because A.J. Green clearly had both feet in. But he didn't know that. And Cincinnati was rushing and it was a 17-yard play. And I thought in the moment in before the replay was shown to me, watching it on television, I actually thought it was worth throwing the challenge flag. By the way, the fourth and goal that Washington got the stop on with the Chase Young, you know, causing the fumble, was really refereed very well. They understood what it happened on the field, there may have been possession by a defensive player who then lost it back into the end zone, hence touchback or take the penalty. Hence, it wasn't a touchback.

It was a safety, so that would have forced Washington to take the penalty. But then they went to replay and realized he didn't have possession of it, and they ruled it a touchback because if you didn't have possession and the ball went backwards, it's still loose. It's a touchback, not a safety. I thought they did a really great job refereeing. and administering that situation and then explaining it the way they did. I thought that was an exceptional job.

And the referee in the game, oh, God, I recognize him. I think he's really good. Brian Neal did an excellent job. I'm sorry, not Brian Neal. The head referee in the game was Sean Smith. Sean Smith was the head referee. He did an excellent job, I thought, explaining it. I thought Danny Johnson had a kickoff return that he should have fielded and run back.

The ball basically hit barely, barely into the end zone. I think if that ball is coming down at the goal line, you've got to field that ball and run it back. He had a big return last week. I'd like to see more opportunities to flip the field. You know, Cincinnati's first half in the game, you know, it wasn't identical exactly, but it mirrored to a certain degree Washington's first half in Detroit, moving the ball up and down the field, but missing field goals, turning the ball over. They ended up with nine points. It felt like it should have been a lot more.

There was a call on Duran Payne in the game where he got called for a face mask on a sack. Was that a face mask? It didn't look like it. Chase Young's performance was much better this week than last week. He had the near interception. He had the big hit on Burrow and the fourth and goal. He made some big plays in the run game. He had a few rushes where he all. almost got his hand on the ball before it was released. Boz wrote a column in the post yesterday that got a lot of attention from a lot of Washington football fans.

He basically suggested that Chase Young's year was not a good year and that he was a disappointment so far and that he was, you know, a little bit overrated. But that really was the headline of the Boz column. Boz was really trying to say that when you pick a player like him number two overall, he has to be great. He's got to be elite. That good isn't good enough because you passed on quarterbacks, potentially, in drafting him. And I would agree with that.

You know, I didn't think he played very well last week. Gully had the lowest grade on him last week. He may be playing a little bit hurt here recently, but I agree with that part of Boz's comments. Now, hindsight's 2020, 50-50 is Spurrier would say. But, you know, I think it's going to be hard to ever knock. picking Chey Chung at number two overall. I think that was the right move. You know, Tua had the hip thing. Nobody was really sold on Herbert. Not many people were. And you had a dominant, you know, evaluated defensive end coming out. So anyway,

the point is, ultimately for this to look great, Chey Chung's got to be a many-time pro bowler and a real game changer. You know, he does. By the way, statistically, he's got three and a half sacks on the year. And the coaches will tell you, and a trained eye will tell you, he's had major impacts on games that he's been involved in. But I went and looked this up after reading Boz. You know, the four three defensive ends like Khalil Mack and Miles Garrett in their rookie years, they didn't have big statistical years either. Now, Garrett missed some games, so is Chase Young.

But they weren't dominant, and people were sort of saying about them. And where were they picked? Top five, both of them were. Well, Miles Garrett was number one overall. And a lot of people during their rookie years, four three defensive ends were saying, eh, maybe a little bit of a bust, and then year two, they exploded.

So I would expect the same, and I bring up the four three defensive end comp, because three, four outside linebackers like Bond Miller seemed to have made a bigger impression earlier. I don't know if it's because of the position or not. That would take more research, but I did want to point out that the two best four three defensive end, havoc-reaking pass rushers in the game right now.

Miles Garrett and Khalil Mack. Did not have great rookie seasons. They didn't. What else did I have from the game? You know, Cincinnati had a punt that went down to the two-yard line and a guy like threw it back in before it went into the end zone. And the replay clearly showed that the guy's foot was on the line. Now, the game was over at that point pretty much, but that should have been challenged, I thought.

unless I have the rule wrong, which maybe is true. I also thought Higgins had a catch on the sideline in the fourth quarter that should have been challenged. He sort of bobbled it, and I don't think he got both feet down. One last thing, Ryan Finley, who was terrible in that game, and I think because of it, Washington really took their foot off the pedal a little bit. So some are going to be like, 20 points isn't enough. Okay, whatever. Thomas Davis can't run, man. He can't run.

Ryan Finley in that third and 17 juked him a little bit in the open field. I know he's a really good leader, et cetera, but I think there's a problem with Thomas Davis if he's got to be on the field too much. So up next is Dallas on Thanksgiving. The winner's in good position in the division, actually very good position. Giants get the Bengals no Joe Burrow. If they win, they're in first place based on tiebreakers. The Eagles get Seattle on Monday night.

We'll go through some of the schedules. The Eagles have a brutal schedule. The winner of this game on Thanksgiving is certainly going to be one of the two favorites, maybe the Giants, the other, especially if the Giants win on Sunday against Cincinnati, to win the division because Philadelphia is fading right now. So they are in a position Thursday to really be thought of as a potential NFC East favorite the rest of the way if they are to beat the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. Dallas, a three-point favorite two weeks ago.

Dallas would have been a two-point underdog. But I told you on Friday, and, you know, I'll mention this to Tommy. I told you that there's some tells coming out of Vegas about a couple of teams. I mentioned Indy. I mentioned to you Dallas. I forget who else I mentioned. But anyway, keep that in mind.

Dallas is talented. They're very talented and they're very fast on defense in particular. It hasn't produced the results that I'm sure a cowboy fan would want. But anyway, there you go. All right, Tommy, after this, we'll get into his thoughts on the game. We'll go around the NFL a little bit. We will definitely talk about three friends of ours who were laid off from 980 on Friday. We'll do all of that right after this word from one of our sponsors.

All right, let's bring in Tommy, get his thoughts on the game, and also we'll do some other things around the league. And Tommy's got something for us to watch on Saturday night. and I'm going to say something, and Tommy's going to say something about 980 and the big changes at 980 last week and three of our friends that were laid off on Friday. We'll get to that as well.

I did want to quickly mention to you in my annual Queens Gambit update. I'm through episode six. I've got one episode left. Oh, okay. That's a good one. All right. Now he's good.

I will only say, that I think episodes in five and six, they sped it up a little bit too much for me. There's some things like her relationship with Benny that, you know, I don't know. It's just, it's not well acted on his part, I would say, as just a comment. But I really am enjoying it and I can't wait for the finale. I got through episode six yesterday morning and then we were ready for football. in a long day of football. So I plan on finishing that up either today or tomorrow.

But it's been one of your better recommendations. It'll be a good payoff. Okay. Very good. I've gone through my complete game take. What was your reaction and your recap of the game? Well, you know, this was, I wrote my column in the Washington Times that the last time Ryan Finley faced the Washington football team in a game,

he went 20 for 26 and threw two touchdown passes. In the preseason, right? Yes. Yeah. This wasn't that. Yeah. Not at all. I mean, what we saw.

I mean, the game hinged on Joe Burrow going out. I mean, you know, look, again, Joe Burrow, it's my first time getting a full game look at him, or at least as much as we did. Right. And he had that Washington defense in not. Yes, he did. I mean, he really did. I mean, they were, they didn't have a, they were scared of what he could do to them at some point.

And that fear disappeared when he left the field, unfortunately, I really feel bad for him because he's good for the game. And Ryan Finley came in. And then you had a defense that has the capability to make a quarterback's life miserable, do just that. to Ryan Finley. I think he had four sacks. So the game hinged. I mean, even Ron Rivera said it in his post-game press conferences. The game changed after that. And Washington did what they have to do. When the backup quarterback comes in who hasn't taken snaps during the week, you've got to take advantage of that opportunity. And they did that. But I think if Ryan Finley never sees the light a day, that's a win for the Bengals.

I think most people think that. I mentioned, Tommy, that I really felt like they were carved up by Burrow in Cincinnati in the first half. There's no doubt about that. But that the defense made a couple of plays to keep it from being lopsided at the half. The Bengals, you know, imploded. They missed two field goals and extra points. And they fumbled on a fourth and goal from the three, which I don't think they should have gone for anyway. But the defense at the end of the half,

The two drives before the end of the half got off the field holding them to just three points. And then the first two drives of the second half with Burrow in the game, the defense forced two back-to-back three and outs and got pressure and looked like on those first two drives of the second half a totally different defense. Their punter had not seen the field and they went three and out, three-and-out, including the third and two in which Burrow was hurt on on their second drive. So I don't think it was a lock that Cincinnati wins. In fact, I would have said it's a toss-up game. Washington off that second three-and-out had the ball at midfield. They ended up scoring, not against Joe Burrow, but against Cincinnati's defense, to take a 14-9 lead. So Burrow would have come back had he been healthy onto the field down 14 to 9.

He wouldn't have been buried in deep in his own territory like he was when he got hurt. I mean, so at some point, they would have gotten field position. He would have, he would have outscored Alex Smith. Like every quarterback in this league, more or less, who starts for the NFL teams, can do. I mean, even this Bengals team, which is ranked 26 in the league in defense, they still only managed to put up 20 points against them. Yeah, but Cincinnati's best defense in the first. half was its offense. They stayed on the field. Yes.

Joe Burrow was their best defensive player. He was phenomenal. All I'm saying is that the game, before he got hurt, the game was starting to turn a little bit anyway. Washington's defense had stepped up at the end of the first half. And then for the first time in the game, didn't force one three and out, force back to back three and outs. And when Joe Burrow, if he had not been hurt on the third and two in which there was heavy pressure, he would have taken the field from his own 25-yard line down 14 to 9 midway through the third quarter. So to automatically assume that if Joe Burrow hadn't gotten hurt, Cincinnati would have won the game. I think at that point, the game with Burrow

in it had turned into a toss-up. Except that, you know, I don't think that they could have contained Burrow. I just don't think that Alex Smith could put up enough points to outscore Joe Burrow. Why? I know it's not quarterback to quarterback, but in a way it is. But why? Last week, they put up 24 in the second half. The week before that, they put up 17 in the second half. I know that because they were losing in those games. Right. Well, if you were in a back and forth game, and the defenses, no, it did. No, it did. Oh, yeah, I know. I know. They're not. Well, you read, you read their, they're psychological. Their strategy wasn't that they allowed easy yards and easy points.

It's not the way they were playing defense. Now, maybe psychologically they were that way. All I'm saying is at 14 to 9, Joe Burrell would have walked back out on the field, midway through the third quarter, trailing by five from his own 25-yard line, with the previous possessions being two, three-and-outs. And so the momentum had started to turn a little bit. Of course it started to turn a little bit. And then it turned a lot when they carted him off.

They managed to stop Joe Burrow from scoring on two drives. That's right. That's not exactly a badge of courage. No, but well, actually, if you go back to the end of the first half, you know, they had incredible field position and opportunity and they held them to three points. It was really the end of the first drive, the second to last drive of the first half. The last drive after the interception, which they forced a long field goal, and then back-to-back three and outs. Look, three-and-outs in the NFL, if you're not, you know, the Steelers or the Ravens or the Bears defensively or some of these other good defensive teams, they're not that common.

So they had they'd come out. And what you saw in the first two drives for Cincinnati in the second half is you did see for the first time legitimate and demediate. pressure on Joe Burrow after they stopped the run to start that first drive. And then, you know, they got him into, it was an incredible punt by Tressway that buried him at the two. And then they had him in the third and two, and they got immediate pressure. And John Allen, you know, collapsed the pocket and sweat came behind him. And the throw, you know, really didn't have much of a chance.

And I forget who was in coverage. I think it was fuller. and they were off the field for a second straight three and out, getting the ball back in terrific field position, which they then marched five plays touchdown to take a 14-9 lead. Just to assume that they wouldn't have won the game, I just think is a big leap. I agree with you the game was over when Burrow left,

and we saw Finley for the first time. Then it was over, and in terms of their ability to score the rest of the way, they took their foot off the pedal offensively. They realized the only way we can lose, this game is to, you know, hand the ball over to, you know, to Cincinnati and mess it up ourselves. So I think had they needed to, you know, generate, I mean, they essentially stopped throwing the football after a while, which has been their plan, you know, a lot. But anyway,

we can agree to disagree on that. The bottom line is Joe Burrow leaving ended Cincinnati's chances. That's 100% true. I mean, they're already playing without their best running back. and Joe Mixon. Right. But they've been without him for weeks. Well, I know, but they couldn't possibly win the game. I might want to point out, you know, you can paint it as this was all the plan. And it was, I mean, and Alex Smith victory is, this is the formula for victory.

But one thing they did do was they did take the lead early. They lost it quick, but they did take a 7-0 lead early. What do you mean the plan that I said that they had? No, no. The plan is. in an Alex Smith game is to take the lead and then control the ball. Yeah, it certainly was in 2018. It certainly was in 2018.

Of course it is. This is a different. I mean, first of all, that's not a bad plan for almost any team that doesn't have Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson. But sometimes you're not, you don't have the lead. Yeah, I understand that. Ron Rivera said Alex Smith took what they gave him. But that's what he does. What he can't do is take more than what they give him.

Yeah, he did yesterday, though. He got the ball and pushed the ball down the field. Now, that may have been what they gave him, but he was successful in doing that. I think, you know, look, we know what Alex Smith was before two and a half weeks ago for his career. Some people don't seem to think so. Some people think he's like the starting quarterback for the next couple years for this team. Well, well, I mean, I don't necessarily think that that would be the way to go,

but are you discounting it as a possibility? No, I'm not discounting as a possibility. Anything's possible with... Well, it's a lot more possible after these last two and a half games than it was two and a half games ago. Yes, it is. I didn't say it wasn't possible. I'm not discounting it at all. Right.

I just think it's an indication of an organization going nowhere. To have that kind of plan. I don't think that I totally disagree with you. I don't want Alex Smith to be the long-term plan. I don't really even want him to be the 2021 plan, but may I reserve the right to change my mind over these final six games? because the last two games and really two and a half, even though he had the crucial interceptions,

he's been a completely, first of all, he's been completely different than I thought he was capable of being. I mean, he has, one thing he's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in these last two and a half games, he is back. He is a legitimate starting quarterback. Can you win with them? I don't know.

Probably not win anything of significance, which is sort of the case. case before he got injured. But is he back physically capable of quarterbacking in the NFL? He is. Now, is he vulnerable to another injury? You know, are the opponents, do they have something to do with it? I personally, Tommy, think that the offense is the right offense for him. And I don't think Jay Gruden's was. and I think that they have better weapons offensively than anybody thought they had prior to the season starting, and that that is a big help for him as well right now. He has great checkdown options.

He also has a really good deep option. And so the whole thing is coming together in that it fits him right now. Will it fit him next year? Well, if it fits him right now, it should fit him next year. Do you want a 37-year-old who's probably not going to win a Super Bowl with? I don't think so, but I guarantee you they're starting to consider it seriously, especially given that they need a middle linebacker in Ron Rivera's defense desperately, and that could be the first pick and not a quarterback.

Doesn't mean you can't get a quarterback in the second round or the third round, but I wonder, well, look, this is all open to change because they have six games left, and he may totally soil himself, and they may lose these games, and they may have a super high pick, but what if they go on to win five games, two more, and literally have a chance to win the division as a five and eleven team? What if that happens? And they're competitive like they've been the last four weeks, the rest of the way. I get that. It's not going to happen, though.

All right. It might not. It might not. I'll tell you what, I talked a little bit about it in sort of my game take. The Thursday game is what is sort of what we always, or I have always, not that I've completely fallen into Tommy's, you know, Surgeon General Warning and all of his negative, you know, attitudes towards the football team over the years. But I have been, in my own way, I've come to the, conclusion after many years, some of which was influenced by my partner here, that there's only so much you can dream about, you know, when it comes to this football team. Like the dreams that you used to have that were wild dreams and probably not possible in the first 10 years of ownership, the last 10 years it's become very clear that really what you're rooting for, as I've said many times in August and early September, is just to have a game that matters from Thanksgiving on, you know? because there have been many years where none of this has mattered. And even though they're three and seven, they're playing a game on Thanksgiving Day that matters.

And I think it's going to be a very intense game. First of all, the Cowboys are going to have this chip on their shoulder after being embarrassed a few weeks ago. Secondly, they're better than people think. Did I do this with you on Thursday where I gave you some Vegas tells on a couple of teams? Yes, you did. And I told you that they like the Cowboys more. than most people would think. And, you know, I gave the Cowboys out as a smell test pick

and said that they've got a chance to win the game and that they're going to play better. And Vegas sort of sees it before anybody else does. And, you know, part of it was the way they performed against the Steelers. And then they got Dalton back. I think we're getting a cowboy team a bit on the rise here. Now, again, they're going maybe from bad to approaching mediocre. Here's the thing about Dallas.

They actually have talent. they have more power than anybody in the division. I think it's going to be an intense game Thanksgiving day. I'm actually looking forward to it in a weird way, even though it really is sort of a rubbernecking situation on Thursday. I mean, here's this wreck of these two teams, but somebody's going to emerge from the wreckage somewhat intact and not without all limbs lost.

and they're going to be walking away saying, hey, I can drive. Give me another car to drive. The winner of this game, Tommy is in first place. You know that, right? I know that. I know that. This warped division race that you've got here. The Eagles may be the worst team in the division.

So I have not seen this yet. I'm going to look it up real quickly because they're still not up yet. I'm waiting for the updated division odds. Because my guess is Philadelphia, which has been the favorite in the division for several weeks now, is maybe no longer the favorite. And it would not surprise me if the Giants are the favorite right now to win the division. But basically all four teams are going to be bunched up right now. You've got to look, you know, this is one of those things where I am looking at the schedule, because we only have six games left, and there isn't much time for teams to completely lose all their players.

and be something other than what they look like on the schedule. It can happen, of course. But Philadelphia, Tommy, plays Seattle on Monday night, then they go to Lambo to play the Packers, then they play the Saints, and then they play out in Arizona against the Cardinals. They're going to be big underdogs in their next four games, or certainly underdogs.

I think they're a five-point underdog right now in the Monday night game against Seattle, and that's in Philly, not that these home versus road situations mean much anymore. year. Philly is headed, and there's a lot of questions as to whether or not even Carson Wentz should be the starter, although Doug Peterson did say he's not moving away from Wentz, but he's been terrible, terrible.

Philadelphia probably with their... It's unbelievable how bad he's been. Philadelphia might be right now the odds on team to finish last with that schedule. I said they looked like the worst team in the division. right now. It's not saying much. You know, again, let's get back to Alex Smith

for a second because, I mean, you know, everyone's drinking the cool aid about this guy. I'm not saying you are, but everyone, but you are to some extent. Well, what do you? Everyone's drinking the Kool-Aid. Who's drinking the Kool-Aid?

I mean, he can't generate offense. What are you talking about? He can't generate offense. That's all he's done for, what are you talking about? You know, Washington is 29th in the league and points scored. Yes, I understand that. But do you realize that over the last five games, yesterday they weren't as good at

on third down, so they dropped. They were the number one third down conversion offense in the game and the four games leading into yesterday. What translates typically to the ability to score more than turnover ratio, which they were down in, and third down conversions? They were number six in yards. They were number six in time of possession. Tommy, everything they've been doing should have produced more points.

They scored 27 last week. You know, it's not like they didn't score any points. They have been moving the ball consistently, and they are a much more capable offensive team under him and Alan prior to that than they were before. 20 points. The only team to score less against the Bengals were. the Los Angeles Chargers when they beat them 1613 in the season opener. I know, but you who love to play the, well, Detroit didn't really try on defense, which is why they scored 24 points on four consecutive drives in the second half,

generating over 300 yards and a half of offense to tie the game with 16 seconds left. It wasn't clear to you how much they took their foot off the pedal when Burrow left the game and they built a two-scorer lead. Like those final three or four drives, if they had needed to score, they would have scored more. Okay. Alex Smith versus Joe Burrow

foot off the gas. Who wins that? What do you mean foot off the gas? If Joe Burrow had been in the game, there would have been no reason to take your foot off the gas. They took the foot off the gas because the other guy literally couldn't do anything.

So who wins that? Well, I told you. Was there foot off the gas in the first? half? No, but they didn't really... Were they just playing around? No, but they really didn't. Cincinnati dominated... It's like what happened last week in reverse, right? Cincinnati had dominated time of possession, had all these opportunities and had all this self-inflicted damage. They should have had 20 points and they only had nine. Washington scored on their second drive touchdown and then we're driving obviously late when you had the, you know, with a chance to get points when the

deflected interception happened. They just didn't have enough chances in the first half. And that's, you know, that's just the way games go is that you sometimes unfortunately can't get the other team off the field so your offense doesn't get enough snaps. Before that final drive, they had 17 offensive snaps. So anyway, yeah, in the second half, you know, in that first, you know, that second drive, they went five plays 55 yards, and then they went six plays 49 yards for score and then 14 play 65 yards for score. And at that point, their foot was off the pedal. Do I think in a back and forth game had Joe Burrough stayed in it that Washington was capable of scoring enough to have a chance to win like they were last week, the week before that and two weeks

prior to that? Yes. Would they have won the game? I have no idea. That's why I said I think it was a toss. Well, I don't think they're capable of a back and forth. Those games the past two weeks against the Giants and the Lions were not back and forth. No. Well, no, they were not back in fourth, although they were back and forth at the end of the Detroit game, obviously, when, you know, it was 24-24, then Detroit took the lead, and then Washington came back and tied it,

and then Detroit won it in 16 seconds with, you know, courtesy of the 15-yard penalty. But, yeah, no, I mean, I think they, I mean, if you're asking about Alex Smith, big picture, is he going to be here next year? I actually think he will be. Do I want him to be? I don't know.

Probably not. But I also, as you know, like to be presented with solutions before I definitively say no. I've obviously done a 180 on his capability as an NFL quarterback. I thought we were going to see not necessarily the Rams second half, but something indicating that this guy just couldn't do it physically anymore. And we have not seen that. Can we agree on that? That physically he's able to do it.

Yes. He is Alex Smith. He is the guy we saw in 2018. Right. And we didn't like that guy either. No, we didn't like that guy in that scheme. We did not. That's for sure.

I like, if you told me that he wasn't 36 and 37 years old and we didn't have the experience we had two years ago. And he, you know, is showing what he's showing. And this is his first time in. Washington playing off that injury, I would tell you that, like, I would probably be less influenced by 2018. And I would say, man, he looks good. Like he really, this is an offense that suits him. He's decisive. He's quick. He's accurate. He has arm strength, which, and by the way, reasonable mobility considering the injury that he's off of. I think if I didn't have the 2018 to look back on, I think I would actually feel differently about the future with him.

Now, I still wouldn't think, I would think what I thought about him coming from Kansas City. If you put a really good team around him, you can be a playoff team. Can you ever be a Super Bowl team with him? Probably not. So if that's the answer on that, then you shouldn't go in that direction because the goal should be a Super Bowl. The issue isn't what we think, even though that's what we do on these shows. The issue is to contemplate what they're thinking. And I think that what's become very clear over these last five weeks is when Scott Turner got his preference of quarterbacks, plural, you're seeing an offensive coordinator that actually looks like he belongs.

It's early. But, you know, there have been a lot of naysayers, Norvson, you know, the early troubles offensively. But there's a lot of creativity to what they're doing. I don't know how deep the playbook is. I don't think it's super deep. But I like what I've seen from him as a play caller more times than not this year, including a game or two with Dwayne. And I think, you know, he got the quarterbacks that he wanted.

He got Kyle first. And when Kyle got hurt, he got Alex. And I think what we're seeing is we're seeing an offense that is, you know, as I said, a couple of weeks ago, is professionally competent, worst case. I can't disagree with that. I can't disagree with it. I mean, I think he, I think he's done overall a decent job in the play calling and the selection and the creativity. I just think it's a limited offense with a limited quarterback. And that's not the kind of offense. That's not the kind of team that wins games in the NFL. It's certainly not the kind of team that wins a lot of games in the NFL. I will definitely agree with you on that. And look, they're going to get tested on Thanksgiving.

day against a Dallas team that has talent and speed in their front seven defensively, even though statistically you'll read about how bad they are defensively. And they haven't been great, but they were better. They've got speed. They gave up a lot of yards and a lot of points yesterday, but they rolled up a lot of points yesterday. You know, Thursday's going to be a test, and obviously a week from next Sunday at Pittsburgh, that'll be the real, you know, that'll be the best defensive team they have faced all year

long. The Ravens were close. The Rams are really good defensively. The Eagles are pretty good defensively and have been at times. But we'll know a lot more after these next three games. Because the 49ers, even though they're pretty much done, they still are pretty quick and active defensively. So we'll find out. I mean, it could completely fall apart and we could see, you know, 27 to 10, 24 to 6, and 31 to 13 over the next three weeks. And what we saw against, and fair enough, against the Giants, Cowboys, Giants, Lions, and Bengals was really more of an illusion. And it may be, but I am interested to see what happens Thursday. And if they aren't, and here's just another quick point, because I don't think I mentioned this earlier.

If I did, sorry for being repetitive. The Dallas Minnesota game yesterday was a very chippy physical hard-hitting game, short turnaround for the Cowboys. And Washington played in essentially for the second half a very stress-free game. So that, you know, Dallas is a three-point favorite. Two weeks ago they would have been a three-point underdog, which tells you how Vegas is sort of turned on them a little bit. I don't know, we'll see. And the winner is four and seven. and for a moment in first place.

So this is the final game of the winnable Ron Rivera part of the schedule, right? This is the final one. Yeah, because when he talked about that winnable schedule, this is the finale. So far, they are two and three in that stretch. That's right. With the three losses being by a grand total seven points, all three of those being games that they very easily could have won. Yes.

Which means absolutely nothing to me. I know it. And it doesn't mean that much to me, but again, and I mentioned this to you last week, in a season where you have new regime entering a situation that is about as dysfunctional as it gets in team sports with no expectations of winning, I'm not looking for bottom line wins losses. I think that's a limiting way to look at a new coach, a new regime into an organization like this one. Especially this year when you've got the new coach coming in with a shortened training camp,

dealing with a terrible personal situation in cancer. Yeah, I mean, this is not a judgment year. Right. So when you said, which means nothing to you, it does mean something. me, and that's where I was going. The last five games have shown that, A, his team hasn't bailed on him or his staff. B, they've actually coached them up pretty well for the most part. Again, the competition is lessened. We all understand that. But it didn't matter last year, or in 2017 that the competition was less. They got their ass kicked. They were embarrassed.

They've had five consecutive games, all five of which, late into the fourth quarter, they had a chance to win. They've only won two of them. And yes, to answer your first point, this game on Thanksgiving in terms of the schedule, was this part of the schedule that he thought he could make hay on? And so if they win, they were three and three. And if they're three and three, they're very likely either in a share of first place with a team that they would lose the tiebreaker with and the Giants at four and seven, or maybe in first place all by themselves heading to Pittsburgh. I would agree. Yeah. So he'll come out of it if he's in first place a week from today, which the Giants now shouldn't lose to Cincinnati because it'll be Ryan Finley, not Joe Burr. But if he is, he'll come

out of it saying, yeah, this was the opportunity. So we saw a chance to go three and three over, you know, we could have been better too and be in first place. And, you know, and I've been a December coach my whole year, my whole career, which he has, his record. She has. You're right. Has been fantastic. Anyway. But, I mean, this is a year, again, you know, given everything, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you've decided that their competitive level is a measure of hope in this.

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily think that. I would just think if I was looking for anything to measure this year in terms of progress, that they found a couple of play. They found some players. Well, that would be the other part for me. To be fair, that's some players. To be fair, that would be the other part for me. Yeah.

Is that it's become more clear that they actually have some players that can really be a part of something. So anyway, what does it all mean? I don't know. You know, just because at one point in a season, you're pretty sure a division or a group of teams stink doesn't mean they stop playing their games. They play them all. We hope they'll play them all this year. And we'll see where it is at the end. Right now, and looking at it, I think 5 and 11,

certainly 6 in 10, more likely than not wins this division this year. Can they find three more wins? Not going to be easy. Not going to be easy. But if they are, one of them has to be Thursday. Yes. Yes. Yes, it does.

One of them has to be Thursday. Absolutely. Let me tell you real quickly about my bookie.ag. This is the time of year, man. A lot of people holiday time, all the football that's on, you know, even if they took a break because they were losing at some point, it's like, I've got to get back into it on Thanksgiving. How can you eat and be a part of Thanksgiving Day without having some action on a game?

Tommy, there were years where I hated the Detroit game at 1230 against the Packers. or the lions against the bears or something like that. But guess what I did? I fired in on it, just to have something to watch. Be careful, people, with gambling. But go to my bookie.ag. They will match your deposit halfway if you use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They have every single way you want to bet a sporting event.

You can bet it. The lines are fair. The pricing is fair. You get paid. If you don't have a place, I recommend it. If you already have a place, I recommend it as a place to shop lines with. I would go to my bookie.orgie.org, use my promo code Kevin DC, K-E-V-I-N-D-C, and they'll match your deposit up to half of your deposit.

So you put in a thousand bucks, and they'll give you $500 for it. Totally worth it if you're into this sort of thing. So, you know, I haven't had a chance to talk about some of the other games. Last night's game, Tommy, I don't know if you watched it or not. It was really spectacular. It was. I watched a lot of it. It was a hell of a football game.

Especially the second half. Yeah. I mean, it was not a great defensive game by any stretch of the imagination. The first, the game started with a touchdown drive by Oakland, a touchdown by Vegas, excuse me. Touchdown drive by Kansas City. Touchdown drive by the Raiders. Touchdown drive by Kansas City. Field goal drive by the Raiders.

So you essentially had 31 points scored on your first five possessions of the game. Ten of the 14 possessions in the game produce points. That's really something else in a game. I thought the Raiders were so impressive, and I have not been a big fan of them all year. They clearly have something figured out with the Chiefs. They beat him the first go-round, and they had them on the ropes last night, up 3128 before Pat Mahomes led a long drive that won the game for Kansas City at the end. The Raiders are a good team.

I think the biggest takeaway coming out of that is that the Raiders, I think, are better than people think. They're six and four. I would agree. I was surprised how competitive they were with the Chiefs. I thought Gruden did a phenomenal job play calling. And not self-destructive like they've been in the past. That's right. And Derek Carr was outstanding.

and he's got some weapons. Waller's turned into a really good tight end. He's got Aguilar there. He's got Renfro there. He's got rugs there. They're a good team. I do want to mention everybody understands what Kansas City is and how capable they are offensively.

You know, defensively, Kansas City's really had some issues. They gave up 31 last week, or two weeks ago, last week or two weeks ago to the Panthers, barely hung on to win that game 3331. and their two games prior to that were really against two teams that can't score, Denver and the Jets. They gave up 40 to the Raiders at one point this year in an earlier loss. If you're a Chiefs fan, you've got to be a little bit concerned about your team defensively. I mean, you've given up a lot of yards and a lot of points here over the last two weeks,

and it's not the first time it's happened this year. And eventually, you know, being able to outscore everybody, They couldn't do it two years ago, if you recall. They ended up getting caught in the AFC championship game by New England. Last year, they fell behind in back-to-back playoff games and came back. And then they were down in the Super Bowl and came back. You don't want to make a living of having to come back against everybody. They certainly have the ability to.

It's fun to watch them play offense, man. Tyree Kill and Kelsey and Clyde Edwards-Alair, and Levy on Bell now is part of the mix. There's something else to watch, but that game was really, really fun to watch. And they play the Buccaneers this Sunday. They play at Tampa on Sunday. That's a fascinating matchup.

They also have a game later in the year against the Saints, and I don't know if Breeze will be back for that. Meantime, you know, the Raiders are in this bundle, this bundle of teams, you know, all bunched up in the AFC fighting for Wild cards. They, you know, they had the Falcons and the Jets. They still have to play the Colts. They have to play the dolphins, which are good. But they look like a playoff team to me. I think it's the first time they've looked that way to me. Man, the AFC's crazy. Baltimore lost in Tennessee. Baltimore doesn't make the playoffs if the season ended now. They would not. They would not.

In Tennessee, beat them, you know, they beat him in the playoffs last year. They went in there and beat them again, you know, in overtime on the Derek Henry run. But right now, I mean, your division winners would be Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Indy, and Kansas City. And then you've got a seven and three team in Cleveland, a seven and three team in Tennessee, six and four teams in the Raiders and the dolphins and the Ravens. I mean, the Ravens, what they do have going for them is they play some NFC East teams and the Bengals, I think. And I think, and I think to play the Jags too. So I'd be surprised that they aren't able to win, you know, of their final six games, four of them to get to 10 and six to get into the postseason. I think they will.

They play Thanksgiving night, you know, against the Steelers. Yes. And I am so excited about Thanksgiving this year because it's not at my typical relatives house. I was going to ask you about that. So you're not going to Philly. I've got an all day for fall. Thanksgiving lined up for me. Okay, tell me what, tell me what it entails, because it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily include football until maybe the Washington game, but how

many episodes of the Rockford Files? No, no, no, no. I'm going, I'm going to my son's house in Bethany, and we're going to have Thanksgiving there. Oh, nice. And I'd say,

I would say, from, once the Washington game begins, my Thanksgiving is football all the way to my head hits the pillar. You know what? I mean, you have enjoyed your time in Philadelphia on Thanksgiving, but this sounds like it'll be a great Thanksgiving as well. Yes. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

We are, as you know, we've typically hosted anywhere from 25 people. I think one year we may have had 40. that is no longer in play during pandemic 2020. So we have basically, I think it'll be a group of seven. Seven or eight. I think eight. Okay. That'll be it.

And I told my wife yesterday. She did not know before yesterday that Washington played on Thanksgiving. I said, the skins play Thanksgiving against the Cowboys. She's like, God damn it. Again? She goes, when is this going to stop? It seems like it's every year now. And it has been a lot.

in recent years. You know, they played 2012, we know, but then 2016, 2018, 2020, three, you know, every other year here for the last five years. So, let's face it, little did we know it's Dan Snyder's favorite holiday. Little did we know that Happy Thanksgiving was his favorite holiday. I think he loves spending with old Jerry and the wife. But, you know, in recent years when we've, had a large gathering, I've said, look, I mean, try to serve everybody at half time and I'll sit down

or we can do it right when the game ends at 7.30 and we can do it that way. And I think we've done a mix of everything. I can't remember anymore. But I threw out this as a possibility yesterday to her. I said, why don't we just do it early like everybody else does? And my wife said to me, she goes, no one else does it early. I go, oh, a lot of people do it early. I go, oh, yeah, they do. I know a lot of people that do it early. So we got into this argument, and it produced me going to Google for average Thanksgiving

day meal times. And the height of meal time is between one and three in the afternoon. Like 42% of Americans eat Thanksgiving dinner between one and three, like six. percent between 12 and 1, and then it goes down from there, like from three to five, I think it was like 20-something percent, and then from five to seven, it was something else, and then after seven it was very small. So I had to prove it to her, courtesy of Google, and she was surprised by that. And I was like, I'm surprised that you're surprised by that, because I think most of the people I know usually are done by the time the four o'clock game starts. Yes.

Yes, same with me. Absolutely. Now, up in Philly, we didn't eat until about 5 o'clock. Now, my in-laws always had a 5 o'clock dinner, so that was always a conflict for me. But you see, one thing, I didn't grow up in a big family, okay? It was my sister, me, my mom, and my dad. And I don't remember spending a lot of thanksgivings with all my relatives, even though we saw my relatives a lot.

I had a bunch of cousins out in Long Island that we used to go see, but not on Thanksgiving, I don't remember. So, you know, I mean, Thanksgiving was not the huge deal that it was for other families for us because, you know, we were just a small unit. Yeah, Thanksgiving was always a huge deal for us, huge, large family gatherings with aunts, uncles, cousins, grandmother, et cetera. And it was always a great holiday. It's always been my favorite holiday.

You got to remember, growing up when we moved to the Poconos, living in the Poconos, Thanksgiving morning was the Turkey Day game, the game between Strausburg and East Strasbourg. Big game. Yeah, for the little brown jug. For the little brown jug. So that, I mean, the whole town. It was like Woodstock in the Poconos. The whole town revolved around that game.

So, you know, Thanksgiving was the local high school football matchup. They don't do that anymore because of the formation of leagues, new leagues, has made it more difficult to have that game this late in the season. I'm glad for the update because I had a lot of people that were interested as to whether or not the little brown jug game would be played. Well, there have been a couple of Washington football players who were played in the little brown jug. Who? Chris Neald. Right, of course. Was one, the Pocono Punisher.

Right. And who was the good looking defensive back who heard himself and for Washington a few years ago? I forget what his name was. He suffered a career-ending injury. He looked good as a rookie. Oh, Kai Shan Jarrett. Yeah. He played for East Trousburg.

So he played in the Little Brown Jug game. So you've had a couple of Washington alumni play in this game. And so that was a big deal on Thanksgiving. And also growing up in Brooklyn, the Thanksgiving meal and Italian meal is there's two meals. There's all the lasagna and the pasta that you eat earlier in the day. Oh, and then you go turkey late. And then you go turkey later. Yes.

I think I'd love to spend Thanksgiving with an Italian family. I think that sounds wonderful. So anyway, the brief dilemma here is it's a smaller gathering. And she's like, look, I mean, the boys, you guys are going to want to watch a game. And I'm like, here's the problem, though. Without having my father-in-law or brother-in-law, when Washington's played here in recent years, they've cut the turkey. When they haven't played, I've cut the turkey.

but none of those people are going to be here. So I told my wife, look, turkey's got to be out by 4 o'clock. I'll cut it then. We can eat at halftime, but I can't cut it at half time and then eat it half time. I'm even willing, and I told her, I'm even willing to just do this. I'll pause the beginning of the game, but we eat at 4.30. You know, we sit down, we'll take the turkey out at 3.30. I'll cut it at 4. We'll eat at 4.30, and then we'll be done.

done it 515. It'll be a quick sprint. And then I can catch up. You know, I can just record it, DVR it, and go catch up and not pay attention and tell all my boys not to pay attention to their phones, which will be impossible. Somebody will be like, oh, oh,

and I'll be like, oh, Jesus, was that good or bad? And they'll say, do you want to know? And then I'll say, yeah, I want to know. And they'll say, oh, Antonio Gibson just had a 42-yard touchdown run. They're up 14 to say, oh, I, well, wasn't supposed to tell you the score.

But anyway, we'll figure it out. It always works out. I wanted to just mention one more thing before you finished with a thought on something that's going to air on Saturday night. The Packers Colts game was really, first of all, it was a good day for the smell test. A lot of the dogs came through. I was 4 and 1, 11 and 7, I think, for the weekend, 4 and 1 yesterday. I told you, I thought the Cowboys could have went out right.

I had the Colts. I had Washington and I had Philly that didn't work. What was the other one that did work? Oh, the Texans. I thought the Texans would beat New England, especially off New England playing that incredible game last week. I also would have given you Denver before the day started. Yesterday, I played Denver.

I played the Jets too, which was a nice little backdoor cover. My boy Flacco came up big late. for a backdoor cover. But anyway, the Colts Packers game, first of all, I mean, I think it's another team. You know, I told you to tell that the Vegas likes Indy a lot. I think they're well coached. I think they're really good defensively.

You know, last week they beat the Titans on the road on that Thursday night game. The Ravens game was a bit misleading because there was a fumble return for a touchdown and then a crazy interception that shouldn't have been. And the Colts are really, really good. good. And they came back from a 2814 deficit. And then the end of that game, the end of regulation, was crazy. I don't know that I've ever seen them. And some of you watch this. I don't know that I watch it. I don't know that I've ever seen a crazier ending in that final drive when the game should have been over, but it wasn't. So I'll give you for the people that watch this. So

Indianapolis roared back from 31, from 2814 down at half, and they were up. 31 28 after a field goal in the fourth quarter with about nine minutes to go. They got, they stopped Green Bay on a fourth and one at the Indy 34 up 3128. They took over and they took over with three minutes and 11 seconds left. Green Bay had all of their timeouts left. So Indy, you know, stays aggressive. First down plate throws rivers pass 14 yards. And then they get into a stretch where they had, there were so many penalties in the game. Oh my gosh. But I want to start with this holding penalty after holding penalty.

There were nine holding penalties in total called against the Colts offense in the game. I don't know if that's a record, but it certainly feels like one. But I want to start with some really good coaching by Matt Lafleur. So the Colts had a first in 10 at their own 48 after their first down play. 222 left in the game. And there's an off-sides. on Green Bay that sets up a first and five clock stops with two 16 left. And Green Bay goes, gets called for too many men on the field.

Now my son and I were watching this at the same time together and Aikman and Buck had no idea. But my son goes to me, they did that intentionally, didn't they? I go, yep, they did it intentionally. And the reason is, first in five, okay, with the clock stopped, or first in ten? Which would you prefer if you were Green Bay? Well, you'd prefer first in 10, not first in five. The clock is sitting there stopped, even though you're giving up five yards. You want first and 10.

You don't want to give them the opportunity to get another first down. So that too many men on the field delay a game on their defense was intentional. Trust me, I don't know if it's been reported after the fact that it was intentional. And maybe Matt Lafleur won't even admit it because they don't want teams to understand the strategy there, but that was good strategy. Anyway, then starts a process in which Indianapolis gets called for a holding penalty, a holding penalty, and a legal motion penalty, and then eventually another holding penalty and another holding penalty on the same drive in an attempt to run the clock out. Now, they went for a fourth and four at Green Bayes 36 with

under two minutes to go, picked it up, and everybody's like, well, that's ball game. Green Bay didn't get to stop. But penalties stop the clock and don't force the opponent to use a timeout. Indianapolis made a couple of errors. They threw the ball when they shouldn't have thrown the ball because running the ball would have given them a chance to force Green Bay to call more timeouts and would have given them the opportunity to get the clock to around a minute or slightly less than a minute. Green Bay holding no timeouts.

three, but instead Green Bay ultimately got the ball back with a minute 25 left, and they still had a timeout left. And Green Bay went down the field and had a chance to score touchdown, kicked a game tying field goal. Aaron Rogers made a throw on that final drive. Oh my gosh. That was unbelievable. A third and ten throw to Valdez Scantling for 47 yards. It was just ridiculous. With three defenders like circling around him. Just an incredible throw. They, they, unfortunately, that same receiver, Valdas Scantling fumbled in overtime, which set up the game winning field goal by Indianapolis and the Colts win.

And it was, it was, it was an interest, it was really good, really good late day, you know, national TV game between the Packers and the Colts. Are those, Philip Rivers and Aaron Rogers, I know Mojones is fun to watch and Lamar Jackson, has been fun to watch. But Rivers and Rogers may be two of the most fun quarterbacks to watch if you're not emotionally invested in the game. Well, you know me and my love for Philip Rivers. He's been one of my favorites.

He's a first ballot lock, in my opinion. We had this conversation recently. He just, Bill Belichick said it several years ago. He said, Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning are the all-time greatest and most knowledgeable coaches on the field at the position, which was a bit of a knock at Brady, if you recall when he said it. They were getting ready to play the Chargers, I think. And Rivers really is spectacular in his ability to dice it up. Now, he'll take too many risks, you know, at times, and it'll lead to some bad plays. But that's a good football team, Tommy. The Colts are a good football team. And it's

going to be, they have a game against the Titans this weekend for first place. It would also, it would put the Colts a game up on them and would also be the sweep of the Titans. And now you look at the AFC standings and they've got a chance to be like the two seed. I mean, imagine the Chiefs had lost last night, but they've got a chance to make a run and have, you know, be the two seed. Now, in the playoffs this year, only one team gets a first round by because there's seven now in each conference. But in the Chiefs are the favorite to, the Steelers are the favorite. to be that. Actually, what am I talking about? The Colts can be the three seed because the Steelers are

10 and O and the Chiefs are 9 and 1. But I wouldn't want to play that team in a postseason game. They're very capable. But the Chiefs and the Steelers are really, they've separated themselves a little bit. There was one other game that I wanted to mention. Oh, real quickly, the Minnesota game, Dallas game. because you know it's always fun when Kirk has a drive to tie the game at the end Tommy and they don't come through it's always fun to look at my Twitter account and yesterday was yesterday was so typical you know he was 22 of 30 for 314 yards and three touchdowns he literally was unstoppable as was their offense especially in the second half, but they could not get off the field. Dallas carved them up. And every time, you know,

Kirk answered, Dallas came back down the field and answered. And then on the final drive, after Dallas had taken the lead, on an 11 played, you know, 61-yard drive to take the lead 3128, he gets the ball back. It's a minute 37 left. There was one tweet in particular. Several of them usually read something like, I can't wait to hear you defend Kirk Cousins tomorrow. Well, dudes, And gals, if any of you were female, that came after me. If you watched the game or if you knew anything about the game, even the most critical of Vikings fans of Kirk Cousins would tell you how great he was yesterday. And on the final drive, Cousins hits Justin Jefferson,

who may be the offensive rookie of the year, or he's going to be in the running with obviously Burrow and Herbert. He hits him over the middle with plenty of feel. Would have been a 15 to 20 yard first down chain moving play, and Jefferson just drops the ball. Then on third and six, he's got Thielen, and Thielen may have been interfered with. They didn't call it.

By the way, in the drive before that, Thelan was held they didn't call it. And Zimmer was very upset with the officiating afterwards. It just seemed that every call went their way. And then on fourth down, they didn't pick up the blitz, and he ended up throwing the ball deep incomplete. But if anybody understands anything about the game yesterday, there isn't even one Kirk Cousins, Minnesota Vikings hating fan

that would even single him out as a reason that they lost that game. He's actually been very good during their stretch. I thought that was going to be a tough game for them. I actually like that. Do you know that in the smell test, I am now 6-0 on Vikings-related games, either going against them or with them. And I think I am going to like them on Sunday against the Panthers.

They still have a chance to get back into it. They're very good offensively. Defensively, they've been hit and miss. That's been their problem. And they were missing one of their best offensive linemen. And Dallas is fast up front. I'm just telling you that's going to be a problem for Washington on Thursday. The ball's going to have to be out quickly.

And they're going to have to take advantage of some of the DB problems that Dallas has. But anyway, if you saw the game and you actually, for a moment, think they lost that game because Kirk Cousins lost it for them, you're really reaching. That wasn't the issue. They've lost some games this year because of Kirk Cousins, not yesterday. All right, you want everybody to know about something on Saturday night. What is it? Well, you've got this bizarre circus event on Saturday night that all of a sudden this week, people are going to wake up and realize this happening and say, Are you kidding me?

Mike Tyson is fighting Roy Jones on pay-per-view Saturday night. No chance I buy that. Well, good. That's good. Are you going to buy it? No, I'm not going to buy it. Okay. Even though I am curious about it.

Now, it's billed as an exhibition. And I'm not quite sure how, I've never been quite sure how these exhibitions work. As if, you know, I mean, basically, is it a sparring session? will be a sparring session that gets out of control. You know, I'm not quite sure what will happen. Mike Tyson is 54 and Roy Jones is 51. And everyone's excited about it because they keep seeing these Mike Tyson videos of him, you know, punching his trainer with the, you know, the myths.

And he looks unbelievably explosive. He looks, he's cut like, like he's never been before. He looks like in great physical shape. And his punches sound like they would, they would crush a dinosaur when they're, when they're hitting a bag or hitting the myths. But, you see, I saw Mike Tyson in his last couple of fights back, you know, 15 years ago, 18 years ago. And I saw him get beat by Danny Williams.

who nobody ever heard of in four rounds and then get beat in eight rounds, I think, by Kevin McBride at the then MCI Center. So anyone who's foolish enough to buy this, you get what you deserve. And Tyson's talking about fighting some more if this goes well. Yeah, I have no interest at all. Yeah. I mean, don't waste your money. It'll be on, and the highlights will be on ESPN. I don't want to say this is a sad state of boxing because boxing has always had its circus type of events.

I mean, throughout history. Would you say that Mayweather v. McGregor was a circus-like event? Oh, no, that was a fraud. That was an outright fraud. Because it was actually exciting. I bought that. Oh, my God. What a fraud that was.

I did buy that one, and I thought it was exciting. I mean, Floyd was laughing all the whole night. I mean, it was, it was unbelievable. I'm telling you, it's the biggest fraud I've seen perpetrated on the American public. And they made a ton of money between the two of them. They made $100 million. Right. And I couldn't believe it.

I mean, this shows you the state of, this shows you the state of boxing. New Yorker magazine, you know, covered it. And New Yorker with David Remnick as the editor, who supposedly is a boxing expert. you know, they send this bozo out to cover this event, and he writes about it like it's Ali Fraser One. Oh, that's ridiculous. It was a joke. See, you want to write a column about his column.

I did. Oh, you did? Oh, I did. Him and the Sports Illustrated guy. Yeah. I ripped the crap out of him. I say it was embarrassing. That gets me worked up.

This, I mean, this is just a circus act. But that was an outright fraud. Can we end talking about some of our friends who were laid off on Friday? Yes, yes. Okay. So some of you may have heard me talk about this on radio this morning. On Friday, I guess the hazards of the media business, but, you know, I said that this morning and then I thought to myself real quickly. Actually, so many of you have been a part of businesses, especially over the last eight months.

And you felt the sting of layoff. whether directly or indirectly, but three people who Tommy and I have worked with and four at 980 for the better part for me over the last 17 years. God, I don't know when you first appeared with Andy and Zabe on 980, what year that was. I think it was 99. So for you 21 years with the experience at the station. Many of you know this already, but Chris Johnson, CJ, and then Doc Walker and Scotland were all laid off. As part of an acquisition, we at 980 were owned by Urban I, who had purchased us two years ago from Red Zebra,

which was the company that Dan Snyder was a part of. And we were acquired the other day by Entercom. Entercom is a huge radio company and very much into sports radio, which actually may signal a new day and maybe even a better day, But that doesn't... And I work for Entercom. And Tommy's worked for Entercom because they own 106.7, the fans. You know, we've been sold and acquired before.

You and I have both been in businesses that have been sold and acquired before. As I mentioned, it happened two years ago when Urban One bought Red Zebra. It happens a lot in radio. So when you get acquired, it's not that unusual at all that there are casualties. Look, two years ago when Urban One purchased, you know, 980 from Red Zebra, I was a casualty. You know, it was more of a situation where they wanted me to stay for a massive pay cut. But when you ask somebody to stay for a massive pay cut, basically you're a casualty.

But anyway, back to the people that matter that I want to talk about. CJ Doc and Scotland were a part of 980. I mean, nearly from the jump. All three of them had been there since the early to mid-90s. You know, they were so much a part of the. fabric of the station. CJ is a close friend of mine and always will be and was a close friend to a lot of us. He was our program director for the better part of the last 20-something years or the assistant

program director. And there were periods where he was at other stations and then came back. But I've always said this. First of all, he's really good instincts for what we did for what sports radio is in this town. and when the owners of the company that he was working for actually paid attention to him, which they didn't always do, especially recently. I mean, it's always interesting to me that the people who know the least act as if they've got all the answers instead of relying on people that actually have the answers.

But when they did listen to CJ, which again didn't happen a lot in recent years, we were always better off. He was such an advocate and a supporter of mine. He's been my producer on the morning show on 980 for the last seven months. because we had to scale back during the pandemic. You know, Greg Huff was laid off, which really hurt. But CJ's always been like such a go-to for me to have conversations, which have always led to really good ideas for the show,

whether it's the podcast or the radio show. And, you know, we always say, Tommy, when this happens, you know, wouldn't be surprised if we all ended up working together again down the road so it's not forever. And that's probably true. But, you know, we're all getting up there a little bit now, you know? You don't have to tell me that. I know.

But, Doc, I mean, let me just put it this way. I don't think that anybody at the station over the course of my 17 years there, your 21 years there, anybody else's 20-plus years, made us laugh and smile both on the air and often. more than Doc did. Oh, absolutely. You know, I think about Tommy all of the bullpen, you know, sessions, especially in Rockville, but in Silver Spring a little bit too, the old Silver Spring on Brookville Road, and where Doc would just take over. I mean, some of those back and forths were legendary. He is still so imitated by many of us to this very day, you know, with love, of course.

I have so many memories of Doc Because first of all Doc and I worked a lot together I mean we did a show together Before Tommy and I became a show I was working with Doc for a year and a half It was after I'd done the show with Riggins And then the station got bought and whatever

And then Coach Thompson needed and wanted Doc So Doc ended up working with Coach Thompson And then you and I ended up getting together For a long stretch But I've got so many memories of Doc. I told this one earlier this morning. We did a show the day after the Steelers beat the skins at FedEx Field on a Sunday night or Monday night football. I forget what it was.

It was a night game. It was the game in 2008 where the Steeler fans came in, took over the stadium. The terrible towels were waving. The Steelers won the game. And it was really like the first time that we all had this sense of, whoa, what just happened? That was a road game. I was on the field for that game for the last 10 minutes of that game. I saw that firsthand. The next day when we got in, I don't know. I don't think we even planned it, but it just sort of came, it happened organically. We both just referred to the game at Heinz Field the night before and how it's really hard to win a road game in Pittsburgh.

And how, you know, look, they played well, but it's going to be really hard to win in Pittsburgh. It's just they're really good at home. And it was driving people crazy. And you know how Doc would do the serious thing? And then, you know, if you're in studio with him, Doc would laugh silently more than anybody. He would turn his mic off and start laughing. And we didn't carry this on for a day. We carried it on for a couple of days.

And people were going nuts. They were so frustrated. They would call in, do you guys not know? that the game was at FedEx Field last night? What is wrong with you? I don't know. Come on. Did you watch the game?

It was a road game. The terrible tells the whole thing. That was one memory. Also, it was one year, and you would have been, you know, on with Andy and Steve a couple of days a week. But it was the first year we didn't go to the Super Bowl. It was a budget thing. And then you and I went to the Super Bowl a bunch and then remember we had to go alternate years, whatever. But this particular year was the – I remember the Super Bowl.

It was the Pittsburgh Arizona Super Bowl. And we, they're cutting back on the budget. Maybe Andy and Zabe went, but Doc and I didn't go. But we decided that we would act like we were there anyway. And so for the entire week. And by the way, that's the easiest thing to pull off because my contention, as you know, I always thought, you know, you can almost act like you're at the Super Bowl and Radio Row. No one would ever know.

And the bottom line is being there was okay, but it wasn't. why necessarily people were listening, you know, to you during the week. Doc and I, the entire week, oh, man, this radio row, it's really quiet today. And then we talk about what we did the night before in Tampa and had a good time that we're having. And the entire week, we acted like no one, I'm telling only a few people knew that we weren't at the Super Bowl that week. What I would say about Doc is that he's one of these people. in such a positive way that when he's in the room, everybody knows it. There's a larger-than-life quality about Doc and his personality, and it was just,

it was always so great to be around it. I have three boys, Tommy, as you know, and Doc got to know my three boys, especially my oldest, Casey, because when Doc and I were doing the show, Casey was a kid. I still, to this day, if ever work comes up in any conversation with, any of my three boys. It is an absolute lock that one of them will say, hey, dad, how's Doc doing? They don't ask about anybody else. Sorry, they don't ask about Cooley, they don't ask about you. How's Doc doing? Because Doc had that, you know, that charisma and that ability to make people remember him. And then let me just say this about Scotland, and then you can say what you want to

say about all the guys. Scott Lynn is, and a lot of you know Scott from doing updates all those years and being a part of shows with Zabe in particular on their national show, on their local show. Scott is one of the kindest people and one of the best people. And maybe, I don't know that anybody was more well liked in our building than Scott was. He's smart. He's quick. He's funny. Tommy, probably much funnier off the air. then, you know, he was on it, you know, and even though it's funny on the air too. But versatile, reliable, could do anything, was always willing to do anything. He was 27 years at 980, Scotland was.

That's remarkable. He was always, in my opinion, at his best with Zabe, whether it was the national show or the local show with Sali, too. and it's just it it felt like Friday felt like an odd day you know there have been times when people have come and gone and but there was an acquisition and it was an acquisition by a bigger company that really is going to be focused on sports and you know Scott Lynn not being there after 27 years and Doc and CJ you know I am I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to miss. You and I both love the office, right?

Do you remember the line from Andy Bernard in the finale? And I'm going to screw this up, so help me with it. But it's the line where he says, I wish somebody would tell you you're in the good old days before you leave them. And I feel like there's this connection that we all had to each other at that station for so many long. And by the way, the connection extended to the listeners. and it feels like, look, the pandemic, we haven't been together for eight months. You and I haven't done a show together at the radio station for several years now.

But I think that there was that stage for six, seven, eight years where we were all in that same building. We all hung out. There was a bullpen. I think some of the best content we ever did was off the air in the bullpen. Tommy had had an office that was basically. basically a shrine built to himself. Scott Lynn's office was in the back corner next to C.J's where he had a couch where I can't tell you how many times. You know, I came in after my morning show or after the show with you, lied down on the couch and, you know, sat there and we solved

the world's problems. I don't know. These are friendships lifelong. The station's going to miss CJ and Doc and Scott a lot. But I don't know. Anyway, that's it. That's all I got. I just, I felt Friday afternoon, and I told Doc this, because we didn't know what any of our fates would be. And look, for now, the station wants me. I don't know if they will in two weeks. It's radio. Who the hell knows? I'm so glad to have this podcast because I'll be able to do this for, you know, hopefully for at least the foreseeable future.

But anyway, I just had this sense, and a lot of us did on Friday afternoon that, like, an era had sort of come to an end, you know? and I'm still on the station and Galdi's still on it and B. Mitch is still on it and Zab's still on it. But C.J. and Doc and Scott in so many ways were, you know, such a big part of it. Such a big part of it. Anyway, I felt really sad about it on Friday. I was hoping everybody would survive

and that we could continue on with the 980 format and the whole thing. And the 980 format is for the time being, I think going to be a big part of it. And Intercom's a really good company. Look, our last owner, they couldn't have cared less about sports talk radio. They were such nice people, but they didn't know what to do with it. I'm not even sure why they bought it. Red Zebra, it was an antagonistic relationship with the radio station for some reason.

None of us can still figure that out. So there is clearly an owner that will have an interest in doing this the right way and we'll know how to do it the right way, which will be helpful. But anyway, I, uh, that's what I had to say about all three of them. Well, I would echo everything you said about Scott Len and CJ. Uh, I didn't work with, uh, either of them that often, even though I, I, I thought Scott was there the whole time I was there.

Right. And you're right. It was, was absolutely hilarious off the air. Yeah. I mean, as cutting. And, uh, you know, he's got some, he's got some family mob connections in Philadelphia. So he would always tell me some of his Philly family stories that were always pretty interesting. But the guy who means the most of me is Doc.

I know. I mean, Doc, I mean, here's, Doc played nine years in the NFL. He played 119 games. He never acted like that when you were with him. Never. Never. No. I mean, he never acted like I was in the NFL and you're just a peon.

And you get that from a lot of guys. Right. True. Doc never did that. I can remember two moments in particular. I had a lot of fun nights with Doc. He's a brother of the leaf. He loves his cigars too. But once I was doing the show with Doc, because I don't know why I was doing a show with Doc.

Maybe it was the sports reporters. And it was just me. and Doc, and we were out at Redskins at Redskins Park. And I was always, I was always, my strength has always been as a passenger, not as the driver. And I had never done, you know, a show, like leading the show in and out of breaks and stuff like that. I remember Doc sitting there telling me, you take over the show today, and convincing me that I could do it and talking me through it and giving me the confidence I need. And if you've

ever heard Doc at one of his Pro View events, you know, give a pep talk. Oh, yeah. Motivational. Right. Yeah. You want to run through a wall for him. Right. So, I mean, I just, he's such a good

guy to me. And there was one night in New Orleans that we will never forget that we can't speak of a lot. but will someday wind up being an ESPN 30 for 30. Well, you know how Andy's always talked about writing the book, you know, which might have an audience of like six.

But there are a lot of stories, a lot of stories that would be very interesting. Yeah. He's a piece of work. I mean, I, you know, I talked to him on Friday and, you know, I don't know. I mean, being referred to 17 times a week by Doc on any show that he was on as coach Sheen over the years. You know, I remember people would say, do you like that? Does it get old? And I'm like, I love it.

And he better never stop. Because being mentioned in any light, you know, in that medium is a good one. But it was always with the best of intentions because we really were, you know, We were all very sort of connected in many ways. And those guys, I mean, shit, I got there 17 years ago. All right. Scott Lynn's been there 27 years. I know.

We got there in the mid-90s. Doc was there in the mid-90s. Zabe, you know, Andy was there from the beginning, obviously. You got there and started to do work for the station 99. Galdi was an intern at the station in 99. Scott Jackson was there forever. You know, Bram was there forever. It was, it was, it was kind of a, it's kind of a cool thing to be a part of, to be honest with you.

And it was, it's a crazy business, but a lot of you are in crazy businesses, too. But it just, I don't know, it was, Scott, Lynn and Doc were constants. Like through every single iteration owner or whatever, it was like, you know, they were going to be there. And I'm going to miss that that's not going to be the case. And with CJ the same as well, because he's in addition to being very talented and good at what he, you know, did. He was a really close friend. And he is still a close friend. And, you know, a close friend to a lot of us and a big supporter of a lot of us.

I feel badly for him because ownership really does have a lot to do with the success of any business. You know, it starts at the top. And this station, which has been a brand in the market, you know, for 27, 28 years, really has had sort of success of owners that didn't necessarily care much or know how to do it. Even though, again, the people at Radio 1 couldn't have been nicer. But yeah, anyway, so there you go. You got anything else? I got nothing else, boss I will have Doc on the podcast

You know Oh yeah I'm going to have Doc You know now more A little bit more Here and there on the podcast I'll have Scott, CJ You know

When we can do it as well But you know That's what happened For those of you that were interested The company got bought And there were layoffs And there may be more coming I don't know

I mean This may be in a few weeks My only outlet But I'm glad to have it And I'm glad to have all of you who are listening to it. If you are listening to it, rate us, review us, subscribe in particular. Really important that you subscribe really helps us out. Have a happy Thanksgiving, Tommy. We won't do a show on Thursday, so Tommy won't be here on Thursday, but have a happy Thanksgiving,

and I will talk to you next week. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.