The Kevin Sheehan Show - Happy Thanksgiving!

Episode Date: January 3, 2020

Kevin and Thom open up with an in-depth analysis of yesterday's introductory press conference for Ron Rivera. Kevin talked NFL Playoffs and had a Smell Test too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. First off, happy Thanksgiving, everybody. All right, happy Thanksgiving, everybody. You know what? Drink responsibly, drive, you know, be careful tonight. You know, lots of travel. I can't wait for the pumpkin pie. In the lion game, who are the lions playing today? Aaron? I forget what. Do you know what? on the radio this morning. Tommy's here. I'm so excited, Tommy's here. Because you haven't been on this show now. It's been, what, a couple of weeks? Something like that. It's been about 10 days.

Yeah, 10 days. But it seems like a lot longer. I gotta tell you know, I don't know how much I'll be able to talk today because I'm really stuffed with turkey. You know, on radio this morning, I made the choice to address it, but not to bury him for it. because this is something we've talked about for many years now, that the reason he doesn't talk is not because he's arrogant or trying to piss off the fan base or a jerk and doesn't want to address the fan base. I mean, he may be a jerk and he may be arrogant, all of those things.

But the reason he doesn't address the fan base is he has a phobia. He's got a public speaking phobia, which many people in this country have. It's the number one listed phobia for people. is the fear of public speaking. And that's what really he has an issue with. And so what you heard yesterday was not an inside joke. For those that have read about, you know, the Redskins PR department trying to spin it as an inside joke

because the Redskins beat the Panthers on Thanksgiving weekend. It was just a misstep. It was nerves. And I actually, in the moment during that entire minute 30 of him speaking, it was uncomfortable because you could tell how, uncomfortable he was. Well, he may be uncomfortable because he's got so much to answer to. I don't remember him being this uncomfortable speaking publicly before when there was only

half a history of, half the history of, you know, losing that he's presided over. I think he's probably more uncomfortable than ever because he understands that he is the target of so much vitriol. Tommy, he was never comfortable speaking in front of a podium in front of the media. You go back and look at the news. I have. I did this like two years ago. I went back and looked at him. He was more comfortable then than than he is now. And the older you get, the more comfortable you should get.

You know what? I don't know that that's true. Well, let me just say, you're right. He was more comfortable back then. But he was never good. Like he was never... He was never... He was never... He was never...

He was never... ...sover... ...or super thoughtful or any of that. Maybe he was guarded, you know? There could be a lot of reasons about that. But what I would dispute is that you can't, you know... You can't develop this phobia or anxiety over public speaking as you get older. I bet that that's not true.

I don't know that for sure. But... But... I'm also not going to discount the possibility that, you know, part of what's accelerated this phobia, if it wasn't, you know, full-fledged, you know, full Aaron Altman sweat from broadcast news, broadcast news 15 years ago, and now it is, is the recent history and all that he has to answer to. You might be right about that. That may have added to all of this. Look at it. Look at us. We're psychoanalyzing this public speaking phobia that he has,

because he clearly has it. Yes, he does, but I think his reluctant to speak is more about arrogance and fear of having the answer for what he's done than his phobia. The only thing I would say to you is I would bet that he, I mean, this is obviously us just, you know, guessing here, because neither one of us knows him, is that in his wildest dreams, when it comes to this kind of area of his life, he would love to be able to be as convincing publicly in front of a podium and a group of media people with the fan base and others around the country watching as he is one-on-one. Because what we do know about him is in a small group, one-on-one, he can sell, he can convince.

He is apparently very, very convincing, great salesman, charismatic, I've heard him describe, in a one-on-one environment. And you know what? the history shows that when he sits down with somebody that he wants, that person, regardless of the choices they have, often actually buys into it. And we saw maybe an example of that yesterday. Well, if that's the case, here's what he should do because he owes this to Redskins fans. He should meet individually with every season ticket holder on their list and show them that he's not

the ogre that he appears to be in public. Every single one. If he's that good one-on-one, then start meeting one-on-one. How many meetings would that be? How many meetings would that be? I don't know. It would keep them from screwing around with the team. It would be a great activity. Let's keep, let's keep Danny. Let's keep them active. What are we doing with the draft? No, no, no. We've got, we've got 3,000 this week, one-on-one meetings with some. season ticket holders. This is what you can do to help us. It would be perfect. It would turn around the fan base and would keep him out of your hair. Yeah. Tommy's in Florida. He's down there with Liz, his wife. This is what they do. This is what older

people do. And they've got their place in Destin, Florida there on the West Coast. And he'll be calling in for the next few shows until you leave your wife who will spend the winter there and you'll come back to the dismal, you know, gray, cloudy, rainy, and snowy skies of the Northeast, mid-Atlantic. How was your holiday? Not Thanksgiving, but how was your Christmas? How was your New Year's? Do you have a good time?

Okay. Well, because we haven't talked since. That's true. Christmas was very good. Went up to Philadelphia to spend a couple of days with my in-laws. And Christmas is different than Thanksgiving because I don't care about watching the NBA on TV on Christmas. day, like I don't care about watching the NBA any other day these days. But Christmas was nice, and New Year's, we were on the road. We drive down New Year's Eve, so we arrived here January 1st, New Year's Day.

So, you know, we stayed in Chattanooga overnight, very nice little town. It is a nice town I've heard Chattanooga's. Yes, yes, it is. And we had a very smooth, uneventful drive. I'd like the drive. I don't like it as much as I used to. I mean, but I've made the drive back and forth to Florida, actually when I used to go to school, Miami,

and my parents lived in Fort Lauderdale, I don't know, maybe 50, 60 times on my own. So I'd like to drive. God, you know what, I like being in a car on long drives, too. Not like... I mean, I think, you know, when I was younger, I definitely would choose to drive if I could. You know, Tommy, back before I...

I got into broadcasting and I was traveling a lot for work. And I would go out of my way when it was somewhere, you know, within four or five hours to just say, you know what, I'm not flying. I'm not dealing with airports and a plane and the whole thing. I'd rather, you know, I'd rather, you know, if I've got to go up to Connecticut, I'd rather drive. If I've got to go down to Raleigh, Durham, much rather drive. And then be in the car. Plus, you know, we get a lot done when we're on our own in the car. All right, well, good.

I saw the picture that you tweeted out. You sitting there on the deck of something, probably smoking a cigar, having a cold one with the ocean in the background, and the weather looked nice. I'm glad you're able to do this. God, I'd like to do it as well. I think we're going to try to here shortly. But I did listen to the press conference. I made sure that I'd listen to the press conference.

I wish I could have been there. I even tweeted out instructions to the media for the press conference. You did? What were your instructions? Well, my instructions were, I hope that Dan Snyder will be answering questions. If he isn't, if he doesn't, I hope somebody would ask the Redskin publicly in the press conference. Why isn't the owner speaking and answering questions? That didn't happen, apparently. No, it didn't. And I think after that minute and a half, I mean, I think everybody,

he probably realized, oh, God, let's just let him walk off this thing and just get out of this hell that he's in for 90 seconds. You know, it's been three years since he spoke publicly and took questions since he's taking questions, three years? Has it been? I thought the last time he took questions was from Cooley on his radio show when he was doing it. No, no, that doesn't count.

Come on. I mean a press conference. Okay. Fair enough. The last press conference was three years ago? What was it for? I don't remember it. I don't remember what it was for, but I think it's been three. Somebody counted him up a couple years ago, about a year ago, and it was almost 600 days

than he had done that. I mean, you know, we haven't heard from him about the Brian Laphimina firing. We've never heard anything from him. them about that. We even heard anything about anything. Ruben Foster, Brian Lafamina, Scott McLuhan, Kirk Cousins, none of this stuff. So I just want, I just, I just, I just, I hope that, you know, if he wasn't going to talk, I wanted somebody to ask the Redskins publicly, why isn't the owner's answering questions? But that didn't happen because it was, you know, just because it

didn't happen. Yeah. Let me just totally change. subjects. I keep getting constant robocalls to my phone. One after another. Aaron said, why don't you block them? I blocked one and now I'm getting nonstop robocalls one at a time from area codes. This one's coming from San Carlos, California. I can't stop it. Did blocking that one call, Aaron, totally changed this situation for me? What did you do to me? It won't stop. Well, at least it's not coming from Hawaii anymore. Look at what I've gotten here. There it goes again. This one's from Tell You Ride, Colorado. What is going on here? Look at this. Tell you right, St. Carlos, Portland, Oregon, Bay, Minette, Alabama, Palm Desert, California.

Look at all of them, Aaron, on my phone. It won't stop. Jesus Christ. Stop calling me. Did you ever pick up one at one point? Yes, I picked up one because it was the fake one where it's, you know, 301 and then the first three digits of my cell phone number. so it looks like, and it says Bethesder or Silver Springer on it or something, it won't stop. What do I have to do to stop this? Madness. Should I answer it? Hello?

I think the worst thing you can do is answer it. I just answered it and there's some beeping noise. Good God. Enough already. Now the beeping noise is going to be in your brain. So yesterday, Tommy, I came on the show and I said, I'm in a new place, a better place as far as my outlook on the team. You know, after basically being insulted over and over again by the team president in recent years, I think the last few days were nice. Bruce was gone.

A new solid head coach that I've been a big fan of was hired. You know, a competent staff is starting to come together. I felt good yesterday morning. Then came the press conference. And the reaction to the press conference, which you probably didn't get to take part in, I'm listening to my own radio station and callers and people are just euphoric, ecstatic. Like, woo! That was awesome.

And I thought, what was I listening to? Was I listening to the same press conference? And it really, life is so much about perspective, right? I mean, everybody hears and sees things differently, which is great. And I'm not about to say that the press conference was like a disaster. That's not what I'm saying. I just, and I'm not saying that my feeling yesterday morning about being half, you know, glass half full right now has changed any. But my reaction to that press conference was, this is a rinse and repeat.

You know, this was the same press conference we've heard. the past. So I'm curious as to what everybody's getting all jacked up about. Doc said this morning on his show, I was listening to the beginning of it. He said, if you were excited about that press conference, you should be embarrassed. He's like, it's the same thing we've heard every single time for the last five times. He's like, the fact that we're having another press conference is embarrassing. And then the funniest line, one of the funniest things I've ever heard Doc say, and you know he can be funny. He said the only thing that was missing from that damn press conference is they should have had pictures of the empty stadium up there. It was hysterical. But anyway, I was like,

I'm sitting there yesterday. I'm like, I just watch this thing and I'm listening to callers going nuts. You know, Fred Smoot's going nuts on our air. Everybody's super excited. And I'm like, I heard the same thing I've heard forever on. these press conference. It's a new coach who was wooed by the owner's vision, the owner's deep-rooted love for the history of the team, the owner's desire to win, his willingness to do anything to win, pretty much the same press conference we've heard with Marty, Spurrier, Joe, Zorn, Shanahan, Gruden. There are a few differences between each of them. They're not apples to apples completely. But for the most part, the new coach was impressed with the owner's passion and vision,

and he's thrilled to take on the task of executing Mr. Snyder's plan. How many Mr. Snyders did we hear? Tommy, I said yesterday on this podcast and on the radio show, if I'm working for their PR team, I'm making sure that the nostalgia piece of this, and the Lombardi trophies weren't there, good for them, I'm making sure that everybody understands we are not playing on the past or the nostalgia here,

and he's a 58-year-old man. It's Dan. It's not Mr. Snyder. And if the 22-year-old rookie quarterback can be on a first-name basis with the owner two weeks ago, then the 58-year-old new coach should be on a first-name basis with him as well. Let me give you a little bit of warning here. What? Because on social media yesterday, I pointed out that very thing.

And then it was another night. Which thing, the Mr. Snyder thing or the quarterback thing? Or the Haskins thing? the post on them. I put them together. Basically, I said, I guess the new coach after 35 hours with the owner isn't close enough to call him Dan like his rookie quarterback is. And I was roasted all night again as being a racist. What? Racist. What is wrong with people? How dumb are you? You can't criticize Dwayne Hassee without being called a racist.

Well, I don't even think that's not even a criticism of Dwayne Haskins. No. Were you criticizing Haskins because of that or were you just saying, why is it that he can be on a first-name basis with Dan and the head coach can't? We know what the history of this owner is with key players, with star players or perceived star players. Yes, all that is true. And, of course, we also know how ridiculous, but how. how important how you address the owner is.

He's very nuts about that. He doesn't let people call. I don't think he is anymore. I asked somebody recently about that, and that person said he's really not that way anymore, which, but still. And I don't believe that. Okay, that's fine, fine.

But I know people who have worked there, who have told me that, you know, it was Mr. Snyder. Yeah. Yeah, you know what? The people I've heard heard from are the people, that call him Dan. So there you go. You're probably right. Look, the good news press conferences don't win or lose games. And Rivera, Tommy, he is a good coach. I've been a fan of his for a while. And if the owner stays out of it, big if, and the team finds that it's got a legitimate quarterback,

then they've got a chance. Both of those things, though, are the big unknowns, and they are critical unknowns. Maybe it's oversimplifying it, but the two most important things, you know, and we're going to spend a lot of time talking about a lot of things over the next few months. Coaching hires, front office, you know, how it shakes out, the draft, free agency, all of that. But when it all, you know, comes out in the wash, it's about will the owner own differently, and do they have a quarterback? We all know that this is a league where you got to have a quarterback, and you can't have owner meddling in interference. So it's the owner, it's the quarterback.

That's what we're watching closely moving forward. With that said, there were answers from Rivera yesterday that I liked. We're going to play some of those. And I am very optimistic about them being a well-coached football team under him. Yes. And they could have even some level of success. But again, this is a franchise with the awe of self-destruction that engulfs them. That where success is usually tripped up by their own.

internal dysfunction, and that didn't disappear with the banishing of Bruce Allen. It's still there inside the owner. And you're right. Everything you just said is absolutely right. But, you know, the fan excitement is sort of like, imagine your, let's say imagine you've been locked away in a dungeon for, I don't know, forever. And then all of a sudden, they open up a window and they let a little bit of light in for the first time. I know. Aren't you going to be excited? Aren't you going to be excited for that light? That's what

the reaction is. I am. I mean, you know, Scott said to me yesterday, you know, the costs for the glass being half full are the same as the cost of the glass half empty. I mean, it's true to a certain extent, but I am more half full right now. Like, I've taken that little

glimmer of light and I'm grabbing onto it because I'm I'm a fan of Rivera and I knew that Bruce needed to go. So the two, you know, the Bruce needing to go is an obvious thing. Should have been done three, four years ago. But the fact that they, you know, sort of outkicked their coverage, they overachieved on Rivera, you know, it makes me, I mean, somewhat optimistic. You know, you said, I mean, maybe it will work out. And to that end, we've talked about this before. You know, every franchise in the NFL can have a good season. But a good franchise is a franchise that

puts it together over a period of time, sustained success and has a chance to contend. I like Ron Rivera. I like the staff that he'll put together. I'm sure of it. And I think what they've done here in this short term is they've increased the probability or the likelihood that we're going to get a couple of those Joe Gibbs seasons. And we'd all take that considering what we've had here recently. You know, a nine and seven, six seed, you know, a playoff game once every time. two years or three years. You know, in Joe's case, it was two seasons out of four, which was a remarkable achievement

compared to everybody else that's been here under Snyder. That would seem like more than just a glimmer of light. It would be like, oh, my God, you've blinded me with success, you know? But every team has a chance at a good season. It doesn't make you a good franchise. I think what they've done at least bare minimum with the hiring of Rivera and the departure of Bruce is that. they've increased their chances of having a good season.

I'm not nowhere near sold on the franchise part of this, that they're going to turn into a good franchise. I think you're right. I think you're 100% right. I think this guy's a good enough coach to basically, you know, and I think there is. While I think we tend to overrate the talent,

I think there is, he is inheriting some good young players in certain positions. I'd love like the idea of switching from a 4-3 to 3 to a 3-4, I mean to a 4-3. And you're right. I just think that Ron Rivera, you know, it's not going to go 4 and 12 too many times, but I didn't think Mike Shanahan would either. Now, he's inheriting more talent than Shanahan did when Shanahan took over the roster, that

said. But, again, the relationship, the problem is the owner's relationship. relationship with the players, in particular, this time, the one particular player being the young quarterback. That is going to, I mean, what's going to happen if Ron Rivera determined that there's a quarterback battle next year, and God only knows who it's going to be with, I mean, it's Alex Smith stuff, things ridiculous. But let's say he determines that Wayne Haskins isn't his quarterback. What do you think is going to be? going to happen then. I think that's where, you know, that's where really the rubber meets the road on this new, on, on this thing is if during the honeymoon period, he, you know, will he have the ability if after, let's just say, OTAs or mini, you know, many, you know, many camps? And he's like, you know,

Dan, sorry, can't win with this kid. Uh, what if he's, yeah, what, I mean, look, I think he's going to say that he feels like he can win with this kid, because I actually feel personally that there's something to this kid in terms of his ability to play. I think there is too. I think he's shown it's enough in his last two games. My phone will not stop here. I have to stop these calls because now my voicemail's been 100% filled up over the last 15 minutes. We're in settings, Aaron, on an iPhone.

Can I stop this madness? Just go to airplane mode. I could do that, but then I can't get a text or call from anybody that I want to get a text or call from. Well, then they can leave, clean out your mailbox and go to an airport. I want to stop the calls. I can't even open up my settings because the calls keep coming fast and furiously. Where in the, is it privacy? Would it be under privacy, Aaron?

I mean, I don't know how you can stop, you know. It just keeps coming. I understand. I'm just not sure exactly the way to say, you know, stop fake calls, but don't stop. non-vake calls. Well, there's got to be some sort of... There's got to be something in settings that allows you to block these calls completely.

I'll tell you what, the mistake is you suggesting that I block one of these calls, because since I blocked one of these calls, it's non-stop coming from every single number. You answered a few calls as well. Yeah, that was the mistake. Well, I know. Okay.

I don't think answering one of these calls should subject you to a robocall every 15 seconds, which is where I am right now. All right, let's get. I'm just going to turn my phone off, actually. You know what? I'm turning my phone off. You have friends in high place.

Turning my phone off. All one of them and get them to fix this for you? I don't have friends in high places. Oh, that's not true. Well, I've had a trouble. If you're talking about my good friend who runs the whole Comcast, Xfinity customer service thing, my man Tyrone, who I love, and has been a big help to me over. the years, had an issue with them here recently. I can't get full-fledged HD on one of my TVs.

So I got a lot of issues going on, but nobody cares about this shit. So let's talk more about this. I, um, I, um, I, I wasn't blown away by the press conference. Bottom line, there was nothing that made me jump up and start doing cartwheels about being so excited. So that part I don't get from those that were, but everybody's got a different perspective. That's fine. At the same time, just so everybody's clear on this, I can still be glass half full on Bruce being gone and Rivera being hired in the thought that they got the right guy in Rivera, which I am. But you mentioned one of the chances that we may see sort of this first opportunity, and who knows if we'll ever hear about it, but it's whether or not the owner changes his ways. Did you read Kime's story about how basically it was Joe Gibbs who called up Dan after Rivera got fired and said, go get this guy. This is your guy.

Yes, they did. So, you know, Joe's still very influential. I think I also read in that story that the best way to work with Snyder is treat him like a child and make your ideas convince him their his ideas. You know what? That was in that story. That was. I think you made it a little bit more demeaning to Snyder. Well, I think that's what you do with children. I'll read the part. Let me find it. Snyder became interested in Rivera almost immediately after he was fired by the Panthers. Two days after the Redskins won at Carolina. One source involved in the hiring said Gibbs told Snyder, go get Rivera. Snyder contacted Rivera's agent Frank Bauer within a day or two after the firing.

They spoke on three consecutive days. Rivera, who received a five-year deal, met with Gibbs, who one source said had tremendous influence on this process. And then here's the part you were talking about. Bauer, his agent, said, the Hall of Fame coach Gibbs gave Rivera this message. Snyder is passionate and will do what you ask, but you must be up front with him and keep him in the loop. So you took it to... No, that's not. I read, I read something far more, and maybe it was a different story. But I read literally, you have to convince him that your thoughts are his idea. All right. I didn't see that. What I just read is what I thought you were referring to.

For one thing, let's backtrack again, because all of a sudden it's just stuck in Mike Ross. Okay. You know, this public speaking phobia, you have to be an idiot to do what he did in that press conference. An absolute idiot. Which part? To say happy Thanksgiving. Which part? An idiot.

Okay. Let's play. It's only a minute 30 because not everybody listening today has heard the whole thing. And it wasn't the only, you know, it wasn't the only moment of the minute and 30. There were a couple of others that I want to get to. So let's play that for everybody, Aaron. Good afternoon. First off, happy Thanksgiving to everybody.

Today is the beginning of a great new year for the Redskins organization and its fans. First, I'd like to thank Bill Callahan, though he was here five years, did a great job for us, a great guy, and we really appreciate him. What the Redskins have needed is a cultural change, someone that can bring a winning cultural to organization, and it starts and ends with our head coach. When looking for that man, I look for a class act. That's how you describe Coach Rivera. He was two-time coach of the year, and for those of you that don't understand, that's very, very hard to do. You should Google that because it's an impressive.

He was 15 and 1, which is extremely hard to do. I did my research, spent a lot of time, talked to a lot, a lot of people, a lot of coaches. And one thing that came across were certain words. And these words were integrity, honesty, knowledge, grit, determination. It's all about winning. Ron Rivera knows how to win as a player, as a coach, as a new head coach of the Redskins. one thing that's very, very important, we're going to have one voice and only one voice alone, and that's the coaches. I'd like to welcome Ron's wife, Stephanie, who we've gotten over the last few weeks, and our new head coach, the Washington Redskins, coach Ron Rivera.

All right, so there was a minute and 32 seconds of the owner. I think you're being really harsh to suggest that that mistake makes him stupid. You know what? Happy Thanksgiving requires a physical exam. Stop. You're wrong about it. It's a mistake. It's a mis-speak. Oh, come on. Oh, come on yourself. What if somebody came on the radio with you? You've said things over the years that have just completely been mind-boggling stupid and been total misbeaks. You, I mean, come on. That was a mistake based on nerves, not stupidity.

a calendar we're talking about. We're not talking about... Come on, Tommy. You don't mean this. You don't mean this. No, you don't. You have to be an idiot to do what he did. That's an absolute idiot. I completely disagree with you. I know you do. But again, we're not talking about misstating a fact.

We're talking about getting the calendar wrong by almost two months. You know what he should do? And I suggested this yesterday morning, Tommy. He should have a couple of beers, a couple of vodka. sodas. I mean, something to loosen them up. You know, all I've heard from all of these guys, you know, whether it's Cooley or Clinton

or smooth or any of these guys over the years, man, I'll tell you what, he's a great dude when you're just with him one on one. I mean, he's phenomenal. He's charismatic. Kevin, payroll guys. I didn't say that they weren't payroll guys. Do you think that they're just making that shit up? They could say other things.

things in complimenting me. Oh, he's really smart. Oh, he's really nice. No, they say he can really sell. He's charismatic. He's really convincing when he gets you one-on-one. I think, happy Thanksgiving's. I'm not going to, you can feel what you want to feel. It does not, a misspeak there does not make him stupid. I will say this. Those of you that are buying that this was some sort of inside joke are totally gullible. That's a PR spin. He was nervous. People make mistakes. But Kevin, can I... The reason you can get away with a joke like that

is because the alternative seems so absurd that he actually got it wrong. Well, that's how you can... Oh, come on. You know what? Tommy, Tommy, please. It's not a reflection of his intelligence that he said, happy Thanksgiving instead of happy New Year's.

If he said, as a follow-up, no, it's Thanksgiving. I mean, you know, we've got Thanksgiving dinner and people are coming over. Then you just think that he's got early onset of dementia. But if you told him, he would have said, oh, yeah, of course. It's New Year's. I just misspoke. You really think that that is, you're nuts to believe that that is some sort of reflection of intelligence. Come on.

You're smarter than that. Kevin, you can be smart and say something that makes you sound like an idiot. That made him sound like an idiot. That's the way you can get a good people. You're accusing him an idiot. You're accusing him of being stupid. Yeah, he was an idiot for saying it. An absolute moron.

Okay. I want to get to a couple of the other portions of what he said. First of all, the emphasizing of the two Coach of the Year awards that Ron Rivera won, saying, if you don't know this, that's very hard to do. You should Google it. Oh, boy. That was uncomfortable. But to me, there were two parts of it that I thought were really, really interesting.

Number one, right after he said, happy Thanksgiving, he then said, he thanked Bill Callahan for his five years of service, calling him a, quote, great guy, a great guy. Then, without taking a breath, he said, what the Redskins need is a culture change, close quote. that was if you've been paying attention as most of you who are listening have been you all know exactly what that meant Bruce is dead to me and all of this shit that's been happening was his fault period oh my god did he lay one into Bruce with no mention and then the culture change comment right after thanking Bill Callahan of all people for five years of service.

No, he did. He did. The absence of any mention of Bruce and the whole reference to the culture change, again, like he was an innocent bystander in all this, was ludicrous, but definitely big-time shot at Bruce. I wonder if we'll ever hear from Bruce about what happened. Well, clearly, you know,

during the middle portion of the season, And you have not given me credit for this at any point during this first podcast after Bruce Allen was fired. But you told me that, yeah, I would end up being wrong again, even though I insisted that I thought this would be the year Bruce would get the boot. And I said the relationships deteriorated. It's not any good anymore. You sit there and slap your own back when you get something right. I'm going to do it here. Kevin.

What? Okay. Go ahead. No, no. I haven't heard from you to say, hey, Kevin, just wanted to let you know, hey, you were right about Bruce. Allen. You were on that way before anybody else was. After two years of saying it, it turned out to be right. That's fair and true. But I did tell you that this was an informed hunch based on

their relationship apparently deteriorating. That they're not spending time together practice anymore. They're not sitting together in the booth. And you and a lot of other people who I know in the media told me that I was completely nuts, I will just also say, simultaneously, I certainly wasn't completely convinced of it because ultimately, you know, I just figured there was a chance that last year would happen again and he would, he would just keep, you know, his shield with him. You know, that's what's ironic about no mention of Bruce. It would have been hard to mention him, you know, because no one really wants to hear anything about him. But if, you know, there's a way to sort of say, you know, Bruce, you know, Bruce is gone

and I thank him for his service, it didn't work out, and we do need a culture change, something like that, where he could have slipped in a thank you. But just the irony of it is there he is up there, uncomfortable. And the guy that's essentially been his shield, been his voice, and has taken one arrow to the back after another for 10 years, certainly for five or six years, is just completely dismissed yesterday. with a very, a veiled shot for sure.

Anyway, the other thing he said was he said, I want one voice, one voice alone, you know, in talking about Ron Rivera. You know, Tommy, if you take that literally, he's also sort of saying, and I bet this was a big part of Rivera, because Rivera is so likable, he's been so great in the community, he's been so great with the media. I guarantee you, the only person we're going to, to hear from moving forward unless somehow they hire a general manager yesterday was the last time we're going to hear from dan in years unless there's another one in three years because Rivera's gone

but Rivera's his one voice in that one voice alone and he is speaking about you know hopefully the decision making the coach-centric model like it's new but really he's talking about he doesn't have to talk anymore it's going to be this guy that's doing his talking for him yeah I get that but uh Look, there's an interesting parallel to what could happen here. And if this is successful, this is the only way it will be successful. The Joe Torrey George Steinbrenner dynamic. When Joe Tori got hired in 1996, Steinbrenner was his own meddling self, and then Tori won a World Series.

And then two years later, he won a second World Series. And then everybody was ready to anoint Joe as the Savior, and it was St. Joe, and he was getting all the attention. And as a result of that, Tori became so powerful that Steinbrenner couldn't meddle anymore. And he couldn't risk alienating Joe because Joe was too powerful. Now, Steinbrenner was very jealous of all the credit that Tory got as a result of their success. But the only way that Rivera, who's sort of like the same kind of very likable personality, you know, already revered and respected, the only way that this is going to work is if Rivera had so much success that he can literally call the shots that Snyder can't do anything about it.

But you're also implying that the success has to come quickly? Yes, it does. It absolutely has to come quickly. or else the dysfunction will see then, and there'll be nothing to stop it. So what would define next year as something that Snyder would view as successful? Three more wins, four more wins? Because it's not a Super Bowl. Joe Torrey won the World Series.

The Redskins don't have to win the Super Bowl next year for him to feel better and good about Rivera. I don't want him to I'm talking about that Rivera becomes so powerful. I understand. So what does he need to become so powerful in the first two years?

Just one playoff? A playoff game? 11 wins and a first round playoff wins. In the first two seasons? I say the first, if he gets that in the first, yeah, the first two seasons tops. That's the most.

11 wins and a first round playoff. off wind, and they'll be holding parades on Pennsylvania Avenue for Ron Rivera, and Dan Snyder will be the guy walking by, you know, throwing the confetti. Yeah, I mean, you know, something like that seems reasonable to me. I mean, in trying to quantify it. He doesn't have to do that this year. If he did it this year, then immediately, you're right. I mean, there would be, but if it happened in the first two years, that would probably be good enough, because, you know, there were three and The bottom was so low this year. I know. I know. And I'm telling you, Tommy, I swear to God, I do believe this,

that just the coaching alone on defense is going to elevate this team to a much more competitive team next year. They should be, I mean... It should. I believe you. I think it should. I mean, you know, injuries and all that stuff. But, all right, I wanted to play a couple of sound clips from Rivera, and we'll do that right after I tell you about my bookie.ag. We've got the NFL playoffs coming up. The bowl games are pretty much over,

although Aaron will tell you there's some bowl games today and tomorrow and then one on Monday, actually. There's one last bowl game on Monday, and then you've got the national championship game a week from Monday. Aaron and I were both on Colorado last night. They were favored by a point over the number six team in the country, Oregon. Should have given that out on the radio show yesterday or the podcast, Aaron. I didn't see it until after the show.

But we were both on that. Don't you love when we tell you about our winners after the fact? I hate when people do that to me. You know who used to do that all the time, Tommy? Gorgie, one of our sales guys at 980 would come in on a Monday and he'd be like, you had Buffalo, didn't you? And I'd say, no. Oh, man, you should have had Buffalo.

That was easy. Did you have the Raiders? No, I didn't have the Raiders. Oh, my God. They're so easy. And I said, why didn't you come in here on Friday and tell me? about your lock winners. He never once, ever once walked into the office and said, oh my God, I got crushed yesterday. Never once. And it's such a, so I finally made him accountable.

And I said, you give me your picks on Friday. I'm going to keep track of them. And of course, he was basically, you know, he was anti-tout. Like if you're looking for good information, he was good information because you just went the opposite of what he had. And it turned out well. But anyway, my bookie.ag, they are reliable. They have fair lines. They have plenty of ways to wager. Trust me on this. If you don't have a place, it's hard to find one that's reliable and trustworthy. Mybooky.orgie.ag is that if you use my code, Kevin DC, my promo code, Kevin D.C., they will match your deposit up to $1,000 halfway. So if you deposit $2,000, they'll match it up to $1,000. So if you deposit $2,000, they're going to give you an extra $1,000. to play with. If you deposit 500, they're going to give you an extra $250 to play with.

MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin DC. I want to play a couple of the sound bites from Rivera that I liked yesterday and then circle back to the one or two that made me feel the way I felt after the press conference yesterday, which is, I've seen this, heard this before. I'm not, I'm missing why so many people got so excited. Well, maybe. they got excited about a couple of these answers. I liked the answer he gave when he started talking about how they were going to play defense and how they were going to play the run on the way to the quarterback. More specifically, what he was asked was, you know, how the talent currently fits into a

four-three scheme versus the three-four. Here was Ron Rivera on that. I think it fits very well. I really do. You look at the defense align, and we've got guys that we believe can play the one-and-three technique already. We also believe we've got some guys. that have played the outside linebacking position,

they're going to transition to playing the defensive end spots for us, specifically the six, the nine, and the five. So we feel real good about those guys. I like the linebacking core. I think it's a pretty solid group of guys. They run well and they play physical. What we want to do is get these guys playing downhill through their gap. We're going to play the run on our way to the quarterback.

I love the downhill aggressive. You know, Tommy, over the last couple of days, I've watched some games on YouTube, some Carolina games, some of the playoff games from recent years. It's what I always felt watching Carolina. They are just really sound, smart, physical, you know, defensively in particular. And they were always that way on offense, too.

There was always the sense I got watching the Panthers. And that's why I always felt, you know, about Ron Rivera, that he was probably a really good coach, that they were, they sort of always overachieved a little bit, you know, based on their talent. They had good talent. You know, Luke Keekly, great play. player, Davis, great player, some of the players they've had over the years. But I liked that

particular soundbite. Then there was the sound bite, I thought maybe the best one of the day for him was the answer to David Aldridge's question, which is a good question where he was asking him about this coach-centric environment. And he said, why do you think you're going to succeed when guys like Marty Gibbs and Shanahan didn't? Here was his answer. Ron, David Aldridge with the Athletic, welcome to Washington. Thank you. There have been other coaches who have stood at that podium who we thought had the coach-centric approach. Marty Chattanoir was there, Joe Gibbs was there, Mike Shannon, who was there all great coaches,

and none of them really worked out the way we all thought, including them, I'm sure. So what is it that you have been told that makes you feel comfortable knowing that you'll be allowed to see this through to the conclusion you want? Well, nobody really knows, but I'll tell you this. I believe in me, and I'll bet on me. We'll see what happens. That's all I can tell you. But I will give you one thing that is I'm going to work very hard. I'm going to do the things that I believe, and I'm going to stay true to who I am.

I like that answer from him yesterday. You like that? Yeah, I thought that was the best answer. First of all, short into the point, and he just, you know, he said, I believe in me, and I'll bet on me. It was a good answer in terms of dealing with an unanswerable question. Well, yeah. But it wasn't a good answer. I like the answer.

I mean, there is no good answer. Well, I mean, the good answer is the guy who hired him. Well, the good answer we never got, which I'm going to get to in more detail. We've touched on it a little bit. But that'll lead me to the Barry's Verluga. I like that answer. You're right. He didn't answer the question.

I like the answer, though. I'll tell you this. I believe in me. I'll bet on me. Listen to Barry's Verluga's final question of the press conference and his answer to this one. Ron, Barry's Verluga from the Washington Post. You spent a lot of time with Dan Snyder talking about this job. Did you ask questions about why there hadn't been success over the last two decades,

even as you reflected on the times they did win Super Bowls decades ago? We talked an awful lot about those things. We talked about the things that he's learned and he's grown as a person and as an owner. I mean, it was a very frank conversation. He was very honest, very up front, and very candid. And the thing that he's done is exactly what he has said so far. And, again, based on the things that I've gotten an opportunity to walk around this facility, an opportunity to see the things that he's done, he's made the commitment, you know, financially

and bringing the things that these players need to try and create an edge. You know, and again, now I really do appreciate the opportunity. He's given me the opportunity to do things the way I believe is right for the organization. and again, a lot of it had to do with the conversations we've had. I'm telling you, we met over almost 30, 35 hours, and it was very in-depth. You know, it was over a period of time, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was really was. I really appreciated that fact, and I think that's when I told everybody when I first got fired, did my press conference on my way out, I said, I'm going to look for the right fit. I really believe this is the right fit.

I'm excited about it, and we'll know. We'll know in a few years, but hopefully we'll know right. the way, because I do think there's a quality group of young men that really, if we can give them some direction, if we can go ahead and build this culture together, we can give ourselves a chance to win football games. So, Tommy, that was the one Barry's question. You know, I sort of wonder if he even was surprised by some of the questions, because my sense of it is after listening to that answer, that A, he didn't really answer the question,

and that B, I wondered whether or not he did enough research. more than just talking to Joe Gibbs about this job. You know, we've all been here for the whole Dan Snyder era. We know what's happened here. We're familiar with the graveyard this place has become for every other coach, good coaches that have come here and failed. And there's no way he's going to know as much about what we know, having lived the day to day of this for 20 years.

But I just sort of got the sense from him in that press conference, which is why I wasn't, you know, in some sort of celebratory mood over the press conference. Again, I'm positive about Rivera. Glass half full. I'm all in. This has been a good week. But I just have this sense that he didn't properly account for the past and didn't get the kind of commitment from the owner that I've suggested that the next guy would have to get. And that is contractual authority.

You know, I don't think he learned enough in this process to know what's really happened here. I could be wrong, and maybe Joe was completely up front with him, and Joe said, you've got to get this level of control, and maybe he got that control. And he just decided not to share it with us yesterday. But that was ultimately why I wasn't really thrilled. And then, you know, he had the answer about, you know, how they're going to handle decisions on draft and free agency. He talked about it being a collaboration, and then, you know, we'll discuss things, and then we'll ask Mr. Snyder to help as well.

That didn't make me feel like he had really grasped what the last 20 years here had been like. Well, first of all, if there had been a follow-up question allowed, I think the right question would have been, Ron, did the owner know what day it was when you were talking to him? Okay. I think that would have been just the right follow-up. follow-up question. Seriously, though. Okay. The second, the second, I'm serious. No, you're not. You would not, if you had been there, you would not have asked that as a follow-up question. No, I wouldn't have. I would have asked, like I said, why is it Mr. Snyder taking question? Would you have said Mr. Snyder? Would you have said, would you refer to him as Mr. Snyder? Okay. I mean, you know, I don't know him personally. You're much older than he is. refer to him as Mr. Snyder. Okay.

Oh, age doesn't have anything to do with it. Yeah, it does. I don't think it does. Okay, I do. Okay. But go ahead. What would the follow-up have really been? Ron Rivera has an agent,

and the agent would have been committing malpractice if he didn't inform Rivera as to how bad things were. And that would be easy to do. He could have read either of my. columns for this week. He could have read Sally Jenkins' columns. He could have read Barry's columns. All you had to do was read

that, and you got a pretty good education as to how bad things were here. And if he has a responsible agent, he filled him in on those things. I mean, there's no excuse for not going into this with your eyes wide open.

If he did that, then he's not the coach you think he's going to be. Yeah. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I heard a press conference that was really similar to all of the press conferences I've heard before. You know, whether it was a coach-centric approach or whether it was a Bruce and Gruden approach or whether it was a Zorn and Vinny approach, you know, it was a lot of the same thing. You know, Mr. Snyder's got a vision. I agree with that vision. He's got a real appreciation for the past. He wants to win. He'll do anything to do. to win. And you know what? Those are the right things to say in most press conferences when you get a job like this particular job. But this is a unique situation. And it would have been, you know, if you ask me what you haven't, what would you have preferred to have heard?

I guess the one thing that would have led me to believe that he knows everything you think his agent should have informed him of is if he said, you know, not only, did I spend 35 hours, you know, with the owner and hearing his explanation of everything, which, as we know, this lengthy period of time at Dan's house, you know, whether it was with McLuhan and, you know, all the other people. I mean, what the hell's going on at 35 hours? But I would have preferred to have heard that, you know, I, Dan talked about, Dan talked about a culture change. I'm in his opening statement. And I've been in this league for a while. And we've watched from afar, Washington's struggle as an organization.

And before taking this job, I talked to Mike Shanahan. I talked to Norv Turner, who was on my staff. I had a long conversation with somebody I really respect in Joe Gibbs, who was very, very influential in this decision. I even picked up the phone and called Jay Gruden to find out, you know, how it worked with Jay here more recently. I've known Bill Callahan forever. Bill and I talked for a little bit. Maybe Bill would have been a bad call because Bill was potentially also a candidate for this job. And I know a lot of why it hasn't worked here in the past. And I have an agreement with Dan that gives me the authority over the football operation and I'm going to make this work this time.

And he's going to be proud of this thing. He's going to get it right this time. Something like that, you know, that would have indicated that he would have indicated that he really, really had an understanding of why high-quality people and coaches came in before him in coach-centric environments, like that's something new, whether it was Marty or Joe or Shanahan, and failed. Joe Gibbs, regardless of what you think about the four years here, he had a losing record here. Joe Gibbs left with a losing record. I know he went to the playoffs two times in four years. It's a miracle considering everything else we've seen.

But I guess, I guess, you know, if you are convinced that the agent would be negligent for not making sure that contractually he got some sort of ability, you know, authority and some sort of promise that the owner can't meddle or can't jump in the middle, you know, or can't do things that have sabotaged past good men and good coaches, then I hope you're right. I hope you're right. Again, you know, I mean, you know, I've been in these situations in other hiring in other sports, and there are family members who will speak to the person involved and say, look, I read this, I read that.

You'd be surprised how much wives read and listen to about the people who they're married to and what's said about them. So I just find it difficult to believe. Again, if, If Ron Rivera didn't know what he was getting into, then he probably thought it was Thanksgiving, too. You know, all of what you're saying makes total sense. And so it leads to two things. One, Dan can really sell. He can really sell and convince somebody that something isn't what everybody else has told Ron it is.

And certainly Joe Gibbs had some influence there. but I'll go back to the question that was asked about how much involvement he'll have in personnel decisions. And he said, the biggest thing that's going to happen, and I'll say it again, we're going to collaborate. We're going to get together as a group and we'll discuss things. If we have to continue to discuss things and it goes a little bit longer, then we'll ask Mr. Snyder to help. You know, if you really got great advice on the kind of deal to cut, given the situation, you would have had the instinct not to mention that Dan's going to be involved in any sort of decision. That's true. You're right. You're right. That was an alarm bell. I'm sure that went off out there when he said that. At least for people who chose to listen to hear it.

Again, I want to make this clear because I know what I'm going to hear back from a lot of you, and some of you I'm going to hear the opposite from. But I am glass half full now. I would much prefer. Tommy knows this about me. I'd much prefer this to work and have this team that I've rooted for my entire life be getting ready for a playoff game this next January rather than on the way to another one of these press conferences three or four years from now. I hope that Rivera is the answer. I hope this is the beginning of a new day as a Redskin fan. I hope this is the last time and a long time we're spending this week doing this again. I believe in Rivera the coach. I'm all in and giving it a chance. I'm more optimistic than a year. go, that's for sure, but will it be enough? You know, will it be enough? Did he get the kind of control and authority that I think we all need, think we, and believe someone like him has to have to be successful with this owner? I guess we'll find that out in the coming years. Maybe we'll find that out even sooner. Maybe we will. Did you notice that the quarterback was not there? I did. I don't think that's a big deal. How do you know that he wasn't away or didn't have a prior commitment?

Well, supposedly he was on vacation. I don't think that's a big deal. I don't think it is. Okay. What was interesting, though, last night at 1026 p.m., Simba, the quarterback, tweeted, Watch the closest to you. Wait, what? He tweeted, watch the closest. to you. What does that mean? I don't know. What do you think that means?

Watch the closest to you. As if like a warning that somebody the closest to you is the person to keep you, you know, be leery of? Yeah. Okay, who's the closest to him? I don't know. I don't know. It could be something personal. Yes.

But again, watch the closest to you. What does that mean? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it means. You know what? I'll tell you what it could mean. It could be another reference that people our age, or certainly your age, have no idea what it's about. It may be some sort of, you know, lyric to a song. But it's a message. It doesn't matter whether it's a lyric or it doesn't matter where it came from. There's a rose next to his name. Is that for Roseville?

Or is that something else? I hate even talking about this. Jesus, God, I don't know what it means. What do you think it means? I don't know. Why did you bring it up? If you tweeted, well, okay, I... He's got two red exclamation points after it.

Yes. Ohio State Red School. My impression would be somebody close to him he feels may have betrayed him. Okay. Is that reasonable? Yes, but it could be a completely personal situation. Oh, come on. Yes, I know it could be.

It could be, but it could not be either. Yeah. Maybe somebody started to tweet out the video of him taking selfies again to remind everybody about that misstep at the end of the Detroit game. He retweeted that. He did? Yes, he did, because Darius Geis. Darius Geis re tweeted it, and then he retweeted it as well, saying Simba loves the fans.

Okay. Where else do you want to go with this tweet? Did you hear what I said? Yeah, I heard. Simba loves the fans. I know, I heard. Good for him. What was the thing that he tweeted out early on?

You know, you better jump on now or something like that. Well, I don't know. You better not go down. this road. I don't even know why you brought this up. Yeah. Oh, man, you're bad. You really, you really, like, this is, did you do something with this on your Twitter account?

Did you respond to this? Oh, no. Oh, you should. That'll get them all riled up. No, no, I just, I just retweeted it without any comment. Oh, you just retweeted what, oh, you did, you just retweeted it. So what were the responses? You know, it's hard to keep track, Kevin. I was swamped last night. And it's hard to separate the racism tweet from the normal tweet.

Oh, God. People, if you're listening to the podcast, the racism stuff, you're really, you're really, really stupid. There's nothing about Tommy's retweet of Dwayne Haskins' tweet. There's nothing racial about it. I don't even know where it's such a reach. Where would they even reach into race? because he's black and you're retweeted him?

That means you're racist? Something like that. Oh, my God. But it's a new day. It's a new day at Redskins Park and people need to start to start unwatching the people closest to them and trust them a little bit more.

You know, we haven't, I forget the last time we talked. You say it was 10 days ago. maybe that's when it was, but he played pretty well down the stretch. I, I am, I'm definitely, he played very well. I'm definitely into the possibility that he's going to be a good quarterback. I'll probably be wrong on this, but. No, I think you're right.

I think he showed a lot, particularly in the game before he got hurt. Yeah, yeah. All right. What else on this subject? Have we hit on everything? I mean, there was so much true. Well, we could talk about what Callahan, Callahan, what Rivera said about Haskins.

We haven't talked about that. That was sort of interesting. You know, Aaron, will you play that soundbite on what he feels, you know, Haskins can become? He did say to, I think, B, Mitch and Scott, that they had him rated as a first round pick in Carolina. But this was him on Haskins, Jr. I think he'd become a franchise-style quarterback.

I do. I think it's going to be a time. It's a process, though. I'm not going to say it's going to happen overnight. But I've been fortunate that, you know, several years ago, we drafted a guy as the number one pick, and we had a plan. And what we're trying to do right now

is develop that plan for his development as we go forward. I also think there's a couple of good veteran quarterbacks that obviously gets them opportunities to play as well. We won't know until we get ready to open up in September. So until then, everything's just a process. It's a working process. We can't get ahead of it. We've got to stay to the,

the plan and make sure we're preparing ourselves properly to win football games. So the part of that that got people's attention was, I also think there's a couple of good veteran quarterbacks that will get some opportunities to play as well. What did you make of that? Well, it ain't going to be Case Keenum because he ain't going to be here, right? Well, I mean, they could resign him. It ain't going to be cold. He's not going to be here.

They could resign him. and it ain't going to be Alex Smith because he's not going to play football again. I think you're right about that. So I'm not sure who he's talking about. I think that's just, let's service respect to the guys who are already here. I would say that it's definitely sort of a warning to Dwayne that you've got to earn it. We're not giving this job to you. You're going to have to earn it.

I'd be shocked if Dwayne Haskins isn't the starting quarter. quarterback on opening day in 2020. But a lot of people thought, well, maybe he wants to reunite with one Cam Newton. That would be interesting. I don't even know if they could afford it. Don't you think Cam will get a deal? This offseason is going to be really interesting because there are going to be potentially a ton of veteran starting quarterbacks on the market. Ryan Fitzpatrick only signed a one-year deal with Miami. No, two years. Oh, he did sign a two-year deal? But Andy Dalton could be on the market. Billip Rivers could be on the market.

He's almost definitely going to be on the market. Right. James Winston potentially. Right. And Cam Newton. Yeah. You know, he he appeared, you know, he, I went back and listened to the Gruden press conference a couple days ago, actually,

just to see how he handled it. And again, it was, you know, they were mirror press conferences, except Jay's got more of a sense of humor. Although I thought Rivera, came off with a sense of humor as well. Very likable. But, you know, the Griffin thing was what I wanted to hear what Jay said. And Jay didn't hand it to Griffin in that press conference, even though we all thought at the time there's no way they're going to hire somebody who isn't all in on Griffin. He said nice things. Like, I really see a lot of potential in Griffin and he, you know, he's got a

real chance. And, you know, I really like what I've seen in him. But, you know, but he didn't just hand him the job either. I think that's. You know, I'm glad that he didn't hand him the job. That's not what they should do. But I wonder if there's anything to him if we're hearing maybe the first, hey, I like his talent, Dan. Joe told me to be totally honest with you and to clue you in. I think he's got a chance to start for us. But I can't commit to that completely until I've had time to spend.

You know, I've had some time with him one-on-one here in the next couple of months to see, you know, what kind of guy he is, to see what his passion is, to see how he works. I can watch all I can watch on tape to determine whether or not he's got the talent. I need to know what kind of guy he is. And I want to talk to other people like his coaches and his teammates. Who knows what he's got in mind? But you hit it earlier. You hit the nail on the head earlier.

If he decides to go in another direction of Dwayne Haskins, then we've already got an interesting situation right from the jump between. We'll find out about the owner at that point. Yeah, but I don't think. that's going to happen. I don't either. I think Haskins will be the starting quarterback next year. I do too. What else you got? You don't have any more tweets that you want to read from anybody? No, no more. That's it. I'm done. I got beer to drink and a pool to swim. You know what? I wish one of these days, we're going to be somewhere warm together again. Are you going to go to the Super Bowl this year?

I doubt it. I don't think. If the Ravens are in it, I might go. I don't think we're going. I don't know yet, but you know it is in Miami. It's in South Florida. I know. You have a lot of... We had a pretty good time last time we were down.

That South Florida Super Bowl was a great time. That was a lot of fun. Maybe we can figure out a way to make it happen again. All right. Enjoy your time off. We'll talk next week. All right, boss. I'll see you.

All right. Hey, happy Thanksgiving. See ya. A couple of quick things, and then we will get to the... the smell test to finish up the show. First of all, Jason Garrett's out. It got a little bit dicey there late yesterday, like people thinking that Garrett actually may remain with the Cowboys, which would have been hysterical. But, you know, the other thing, Aaron, I was thinking about, and I forget if we mentioned this yesterday, there are only five job openings right now, right?

Giants, Browns, overall, before Rivera got signed. Right. Giants, Browns, Redskins, Panthers, and Carolina. Yes. Did I already say that? Giants, Browns, Cowboys, Panthers, Redskins. That's it. That's not a lot of openings.

And so, you know, some of these teams are moving very slowly because there's not a lot of competition as much as there usually is. Not a lot of competition. And there isn't that, you know, there isn't the obvious guy. like you have to race for the guy there. And the quote unquote obvious guys are guys like Eric B. Enemy or maybe Greg Roman. And in terms of recently fired coaches or unemployed coaches, Rivera was sort of at the top of the list. And the Redskins moved quickly on him. Ian Rappaport had a tweet earlier this morning that Scott Turner, the son of North Turner,

who's been the offensive coordinator and play caller in Carolina since Rivera left, interviewed with Ron Rivera today for the vacant offensive coordinator job. Kevin O'Connell still considered the favorite, according to Rappaport, but Turner, who people are impressed with, could potentially end up at least as the quarterback's coach here if he's not the OC. I would bet that O'Connell is the offensive coordinator. That's my lean. I'd also lean that there's a decent chance Trent Williams is going to come back

because I think he wants to, based on. some people that I've talked to, but they could also get a huge cap savings with not bringing Trent Williams back. I also think as it relates to Josh Norman, if I didn't say this yesterday, that Norman is not going to be retained on his current contract. He'll be released. And then if Ron Rivera really likes him and really thinks he fits, they can go back and resign him to a one-year incentive-laden deal, which is pretty much what Norman would get on the open market now anyway. You're not going to bring him back for the big number next year. You're going to realize that cap savings. And if you really like him, then attempt to

re-sign him. Remember, Rivera is the guy, or Carolina's the team that cut him loose from the franchise tag, rescinded the franchise tag. But that doesn't mean that Rivera doesn't like him. I also wanted to mention I had a conversation with Clinton Portis this morning. And we did not talk about his current legal situation because he didn't want me to. He just wanted to talk, you know, Rivera and Redskins in football. But he was really excited just about the whole defensive thing and the going to the 4-3 and how the Redskins talent suits that. He's like he's really excited about Montez Sweat and even potentially Kerrigan is a

4-3 defensive end and what you have with Alan Ioannitis and pain and potentially Chase Young. You know, it's like there would be a lot of talent there. And, you know, he made a point about the Carolina teams and Clinton worked in Charlotte. and covered the Panthers for a Charlotte radio station for two years. Because he lives in Charlotte, part-time here, part-time Florida part of the year as well. And, you know, he just said he was so excited about Ron Rivera because he knows Ron Rivera and he knows the kind of teams that Carolina's put together and the kind of defenses that they've had.

And he's like, this talent here is perfect for him. He's like, this is definitely one of the reasons he took the job is he sees the talent and he sees, you know, even a better up front group than perhaps they had in previous years. Now, the linebacking court may not be Keekly and Thomas Davis, but the point he made was, you know, Keekly and Davis weren't necessarily stars until they got into that system and they became stars, you know, and guys like Kwan Short, you never heard of, you know, until they got a whole, until Rivera got a hold of him. But he was really excited about it and what the defense potentially is going to be next year. And that, that to me, is the absolute lock, is that defensively,

they're going to be much better. And because they'll be much better defensively, they'll be a better team next year with this coach in place. How much better? I don't know. Somebody told me this morning, who was it? It may have been, I think it was Michael Phillips from the Richmond Times Dispatch, I think there are at least three wins better to six and ten. I'm like, well, that's not going to get anybody really excited. But there are three and 13. You can't help. But with a better coaching staff with the talent that I think they have defensively. Again, not elite talent, but boy, can you imagine if they add Chase Young and you've got Chase Young and Montez Sweat and a four three defense? And you got Interior, Alan Payne, Ionitis with a real coaching staff defensively.

That's the part that gets me really excited about next year. I think the interesting, you're right. I think that obviously they have to get better. I think the interesting thing is going back to kind of what you said at the beginning about Kevin O'Connell and the staff in general, how much is Dwayne Haskins going to factor into the decision regarding Kevin O'Connell and trying to keep continuity on the offensive side? I think that whether or not he's stolen, again, going back to what you were saying about what he said about Dwayne and about the possibility of competition, I think that there might be a thought that you need to keep Kevin O'Connell around just so you don't give

Dwayne Haskins a, all right, here's another offensive coordinator and potentially go down that road. Yeah, you know, what wasn't clear yesterday was just about everything when it comes to coaching staff, front office structure, et cetera. There wasn't a lot of clarity there. And by the way, that's not a criticism. They just, they've got to work through this. I understand that. They didn't have all of those answers yesterday. So it's just going to be interesting. You know, I think I said earlier, you know, there is a lot of, you know, what the last week is produced at bare minimum is a feeling like it could be better. You know, at a bare minimum, it's going to be better in the short term anyway with this coaching staff. And that means we're going to be excited to talk about the different hires he makes and how the front office structure comes together and how they handle free agency.

And which veterans they decide to cut loose in which veterans they decide to keep or even recent. signed. And then, of course, the draft will be a ton of conversation. And then all of a sudden, training camp, are they going to be in Richmond this year? You know, I know they're, I think they're locked into one more year in Richmond, but that Richmond thing's been a disaster. You know, I'm listening to Doc this morning. And as he said, like, in what world does it make sense for a half million dollars to lose out on an opportunity to scrimmage another team to make your team better? You know, the Richmond thing's been a disaster. The field conditions, bad weather forcing them to go off site, all of that.

What if, you know, Ron Rivera says, this is bullshit. This isn't how you get good. We can't have training camp here. Will Snyder, you know, pay to get out of that contract? You know, those kinds of things. A lot of that stuff is going to be really interesting to watch develop here. And you know what's amazing with all the stuff we're talking about normal football things. We're not talking about bringing in defensive coordinator's interview while you already have a defensive coordinator.

Like last year. Yeah, you're talking about things that normal. teams talk about. And that more than anything, at least in the past week, obviously, could change on a diamond, probably will, because this is the Redskins. But right now, we're talking about normal football things about this franchise. Well, we are and we aren't, because as a fan of the team, the conversation this time of year, I would prefer if it was about the upcoming playoff game or the upcoming watching the games because we've got a first round by. Sure, that's what you prefer, but that's not always realistic. This isn't completely

crazy like it has been for the past decade. No. Yesterday was another one of those days. Been through them now eight, nine times, whatever it is. You know, six or seven new hires, you count the interim guys. I mean, I've lost count, you know, but, you know, you gotta believe,

if you're a fan, I think you're delusional if you're locked in like this is the answer. You, you know, we, cynicism is fine. It's justifiable because you know why? We've got memories. We've lived through it. You don't need to apologize for that. But at the same time, Bruce is gone, and Ron Rivera is a good coach.

And I think he's going to hire a good staff. And it'll come down to what I said to, talked about earlier. The owner and the quarterback. Those are always very, very important in that particular sport and business. All right, let's finish up the show with the discussion about the four playoff games. and a smell test as well. Kevin looks where the John Q. Public is putting their cash and does the opposite. It's time for the smell test.

All right. Not good last week. Now below 500. I'm trying to work my way back to 500 after being 26 games above 500 in early to mid-October, whatever it was. There are four wild card games this weekend. I love this weekend in the NFL. I love the next two weekends in the NFL.

Four games, consecutive weekends. all playoff games, the pressure of the NFL playoffs is really, really dramatic. I think one of the things I've sort of rooted for over the years when the Redskins haven't been in it. I've tried to find a team and an interest, and I have that this year in Minnesota. But I always, Aaron, root for the road teams, the teams that are the underdogs, the teams that people aren't giving a chance. And the interesting thing about this weekend, in three of the four games in particular, much of the public is looking at the road. road team and saying, yeah, I think the road team can win. You know, in the first game tomorrow,

Buffalo at Houston, even though J.J. Watts back and is going to play in the nightcap tomorrow night. Tennessee, a lot of people think it's going to be it for New England tomorrow night. Tennessee with Derek Henry and Ryan Tannihill and the kind of attack they have does match up well against a New England team that's excellent defensively, but more so with their past defense than their run defense. And then the Sunday late game, Sunday after. afternoon, nobody's really giving Philadelphia much of a shot. Everybody likes Russell Wilson in Seattle to go in there. They went in there this year already in the regular season and won, and the NFC East is considered to be, you know, powder puff football all year, and that the champion

at 9 and 7 is fraudulent and that Seattle's legit. And so nobody's giving Philadelphia much of a chance. I am. I'm giving Philadelphia a chance. So let's get to the picks. The first game tomorrow, I actually have two plays on the first game tomorrow. The puck Public likes Buffalo. They don't believe in Houston, late a two and a half with the Texans. And then what's really interesting to me is the total in this game is at 44, 43 and a half, 44. I'm going to go with what I have here in covers. I think it might come down a little bit, and you might get a break on that because it got played up so big. But this is a game that nearly everybody has in their mind as 16 to 14, you know, 13 to 10, 17, 14.

and the total is 44, 43 and a half, 44. I'm going over. The public loves the under in this one. They think they've got this one figured out in terms of the type of game it will be. So I will play over 44, and I'll play Houston laying the two and a half. The Texans kind of stumbling coming into the end of this year.

They really shouldn't have beaten Tampa. They really, in many ways, shouldn't be in the playoffs right now. They are not many people believing in the Texans. I'll take them at home, laying two and a half. I'd lean New England because it seems like everybody loves Tennessee, but it's not a smell test pick. The action's pretty split on that game, which is surprising to me because the experts out there really like Tennessee.

And sometimes I love when all of the NFL network guys and all the ESPN guys, they're all saying, oh, yeah, that's the upset. It's Tennessee over New England. New England's done. You can see it. I'm going to play New England personally tomorrow. Aaron laying the five. It's not a smell test pick because the action public is sort of split, which is surprising to me because all of the analysts seem to believe that Tennessee,

this is the upset this weekend. I'll lean New England, won't put them in the smell test officially. Let's go to Sunday where Minnesota is the biggest. Minnesota and Philadelphia are the two big anti-public plays. I mean, Houston to a lesser degree, and I've got Houston in the smell test, but nobody's giving Philadelphia or Minnesota much of a chance. There is sharp money on Minnesota. I got that information via text late last night from offshore. Maybe that's the reason my phone keeps Robo calling me over and over again. I've got no more voicemail space on my phone. Give me Minnesota plus the seven and a half. It's down to seven and a half. I'd like it at eight. It's been at eight all week, but I'm going with the Friday Covers.com.

line, Minnesota plus seven and a half. My feeling on that game is that I don't see personally in terms of analyzing it a way that Minnesota can really beat New Orleans. I would feel the same way about any other NFC team on the road against the Saints with the exception of San Francisco. I think the Saints are the second best team in the NFC, and they're on a role and they play so well at home. And Minnesota defensively is really fragile. I know what their numbers say they are. I've watched them. If you read anybody out of Minnesota, they'll tell you the defense is vulnerable

against the pass in particular. Now, DeNeil Hunter can really get after the quarterback, but New Orleans will account for him, and I think they're going to put big points up on the board against Minnesota. At the same time, my expectation for Kirk in this game is to have a much better game than he had against the Packers on Monday night the last time he played. I think they're going to be able to move the football and score points. I just think that they're going to have to score so many in this game to win. I'm taking Minnesota on the smell test theory, on the anti-public sort of philosophy here, because nobody thinks that they're going to win or cover. and I'll take them plus the seven and a half.

I don't see them winning the game. And usually when you take an underdog, unless it's a massive underdog, you've got to have a way to see them win the game. I don't, but that doesn't fit into my smell test thought process. Analytically, I see New Orleans as a better football team. Smell test theory, I'll take Minnesota plus the points because most bookies in the country

will need the Vikings to cover the seven and a half. I would not play Minnesota on the money line. Now, their formula to win the game tomorrow is to dominate time of possession, have a healthy Dalvin Cook, run him, run play action and boot off of the run game with Kirk and Thielen and Diggs and Rudolph and Irv Smith and their tight ends and receivers, and move the ball, dominate time of possession, and finish those possessions with touchdowns. You know, shorten the game, end up with 27, 28 points. and win a 28, 24, 2827 kind of game.

More likely, I see New Orleans 3528. And maybe it's a late touchdown backdoor to get the cover at 3528. Philadelphia, nobody, Aaron, is giving Philadelphia a chance at home. I'll take them plus the one and a half. Against a Seattle team that is banged up at running back, but man, Russell Wilson's the real deal. I get it. Philadelphia's won four in a row, not impressively necessarily,

although the win over Dallas was probably their most impressive win two weeks ago, but nobody's on the Eagles. The public loves the Seahawks. I'll take Philadelphia at home plus the one and a half. So the smell test is Houston minus two and a half tomorrow. The over in the Houston Buffalo game, over 44, Minnesota plus seven and a half early on Sunday, and Philadelphia plus one and a half late Sunday.

afternoon. Looking forward to this weekend, you know, a question I would ask you, Aaron, and then I'll answer it after you answer it. Other than New Orleans, because I think most people would consider New Orleans to be a legitimate Super Bowl, potential Super Bowl winning team, do you think any of the other seven teams have a chance to win the Super Bowl? You know, it's hard to, it's hard to ever rule New England out. I would say normally New England, but because they're New England, it's hard to rule them out. But I will say that I'm still curious about Tennessee. I think Tennessee has the talent.

I just going through three road games would be really tough. I would say no, but Tennessee interests me. Tennessee interests me too. I say no on New England as well. I just don't see him going to Baltimore in winning. I could see them winning at Arrowhead next week. I could see that. I just can't see them beating Baltimore.

But Tennessee is actually designed better. for Baltimore. Yes. You know, Tennessee being able to run the football with Derek Henry and to have a dual threat quarterback in Ryan Tannahill, they've got the ability to, you know, match Baltimore. And then, yeah, Tennessee's intriguing to me, too, other than the fact that everybody seems to like them, which, you know, gets my contrarian tentacles up. But I agree with you.

Like, I think they're a good matchup for New England. And I think they would be a decent matchup for, I mean, I think they match up well with New England. I think they match up well with Baltimore. And that would be next, right? Because are they the five seed or the six seed? They are the six. Yeah, they're the six. Buffalo's the five.

So if they win this game, they go to Baltimore next week. If I'm Baltimore, I'd much rather see Buffalo or Houston next week than Tennessee. 100%. As far as that goes, yes. Tennessee out of the teams that Baltimore could play next weekend, Tennessee would be the most threatening. I agree with that. And would also be the, they'd be the shortest dog of the three. Houston's already been annihilated recently at Baltimore. All right, there you go. Have a great weekend, everybody.

Great to catch up with Tommy. And I appreciate all of you listening. Enjoy the weekend. We'll be back on Monday.