The Kevin Sheehan Show - Heinicke Confidence & Concern

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

Kevin opened with thoughts on why he's confident Taylor Heinicke might play well tomorrow night and the concerns he has that may lead to a less impressive game. Kevin thinks the Giants are better than most people think and explained why. Washington Football Super Bowl Champion Brad Edwards was a guest to talk about this year's team and the team he played on in 1991.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. One guest on the show today, Brad Edwards, who is the runner-up MVP of Super Bowl 26. Mark Rippin won it. Brad Edwards had two interceptions of Jim Kelly that day.

Brad is going to be a guest on the show. He's been paying attention to the Washington football team. He watched the Chargers game. He's got some thoughts about the team. He will join us. We will reminisce. about the 1991 season. 30 years ago today, it was Washington and Phoenix in week three of that season.

Phoenix was 2-0 and coached by Joe Bugle. They came into RFK as 9-point underdogs, and Washington won the game 34 to nothing to get to 3-0. We'll talk about that game. We'll reminisce about the 91 season, and we will be doing that all football season long, matching up the week to what happened 30 years ago. and it will typically be on this Wednesday podcast.

Just a reminder, subscribe where you can. It really helps us. It doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us five stars, preferably. Review us with a sentence or two, especially on Apple and Spotify and Google. That helps us as well. A few things to get to before we get to Brad Edwards.

I want to talk about Taylor Heineke in this opening segment. I also want to talk about the Giants during the show today. I watched the Giant Denver game last night on NFL Game Pass. Now, it was the broadcast, not the All-22. In fact, they don't even have the All-22 available right now on the NFL game pass. I hope they're going to give me a discount and everybody else a discount on that. But I want to tell you some of my observations of that game, I think they might surprise you if you just saw the first saw the football.

final score and assume that the Giants got blown out. So I will get to that. Also, I did a poll today. You can weigh in if you want on Twitter at Kevin Shee in D.C. The poll today was describe the importance of tomorrow night's Washington Giants game. The three options were this is a code red game, a J. Cruden code red game must win. The second option being Need it, should get it. You know, really need it, should get it. Not necessarily code red or must. And then the third option was way too early to sweat a week two result.

So far, with about 1,700 votes in. Needing it and should get it is in at 47.3%. Code red game must win is 46.1%. So they're neck and neck. only six and a half percent are saying that it's too early to sweat a week two outcome. I think there is an understanding that for this particular team with the expectations that many had, that an 0-and-2 start at home as a favorite in both games would be borderline disastrous when you consider their next game is at Buffalo a week from Sunday.

a Buffalo team that was one of and still is one of the favorites to win in the AFC. Kansas City being one, Buffalo being two before the season started. I have not checked those odds on the future's odds on winning the AFC title after week one. Buffalo loses at home to Pittsburgh. Who knows? You know, Buffalo could be one of those teams, like we say every year, really hard to predict the schedule. Maybe they're just not as good as they were last year. maybe for some reason Josh Allen has a big step back year. Who knows? Pittsburgh went in there with a great defense and really slowed Buffalo down. Plus they got a special teams touchdown. I think Buffalo's got a really good football team. But I think Pittsburgh going into this year was underrated and said so in my predictions where I had them making the playoffs as sort of a surprise playoff team when most thought Cleveland and Baltimore would be atop the AFC.

north. I had Pittsburgh coming in second behind Baltimore and making the postseason. Anyway, a long way to go on all of those predictions. We've got some NFL stuff to get to on the show today as well. So I want to start with Taylor Heineke. Is it possible that they are better off with Taylor Heineke than they would have been with Ryan Fitzpatrick? It's interesting. The poll yesterday on the radio show, my Twitter poll, sponsored by Wind Donation. Does Taylor Heineke give Washington a better chance to win? 58.9% said yes in the final vote. 41.1% said no. I would have never said that before Sunday. And I don't know that I'm going to say that now. But as I said during the preseason, Taylor Heineke does one thing better than anybody else they have. And he does that one.

one thing at a pretty high level for an NFL quarterback, and that is he has tremendous feel for pass rush pressure and the ability to escape it consistently and make plays once he's escaped that pressure. And that's something that we've talked about going back to the fourth quarter against Carolina, the playoff game, and then even that preseason game against Cincinnati. Now, that would not have been the number one attribute that I would have been looking for before the season started. I was looking for Ryan Fitzpatrick to come in as a savvy veteran, a guy that could really push the ball down the field, a guy that could be upright for 17 games. That failed pretty quickly, that bold prediction, and just give them a significant upgrade and give them, you know, the veteran savvy an experience that Alex Smith gave them last year, but just much more capable. physically. By the way, including being a pretty mobile guy for 37 years old and a guy that was

coming off the two best years of his career, QBR-wise. I would have never said before the opener against the Chargers, Taylor Heineke or Kyle Allen, give them a better chance. Now, again, the conversations were pretty consistent. It's like, who the hell knows? I mean, I'm excited to see Ryan Fitzpatrick, but I certainly didn't have. a conclusion or a definitive prediction other than the 17-game bold prediction, but I thought that the quarterbacking would be better with him. And I wanted to see him before Heineke or Allen. And by the way, the coaching staff clearly wanted to see him before any of the other two. They went out and did everything they could to find a starting quarterback, acknowledging that they didn't have one

in the offseason. After one game, however, there's no doubt that on, Sunday, in my opinion, coolly disagreed. I thought Taylor Heineke's mobility, high-level mobility, versus what Ryan Fitzpatrick has, which is, you know, okay mobility. Taylor Heineke has high-level mobility. I thought that was a benefit against the Chargers. I didn't know necessarily before the game started that the Chargers' pass rush was going to be a major problem and a disruptive force in the game. I can tell you this after watching the Giants against Denver, they've got talent on defense, much more on that coming up.

But I think Taylor Heineke's mobility is an advantage that Ryan Fitzpatrick would not have provided in this game tomorrow night. Buffalo's got a very good defense in week three. Not every team is going to require a mobile quarterback, and we'd much prefer Taylor Heineke to have a real good grasp of the game plan, a real good grasp of Scott Turner's system, and a real good grasp on how to read a defense and get the ball out quickly and distribute it to some of the playmakers that they've added to their team and some of them that they've had that they have coming back.

Now, with that said, if I'm Scott Turner, I'm definitely going to create a game plan that includes leveraging Taylor Heineke's strengths. Like, I'd like to see some designed runs. I'd like to see some reed option with Taylor Heineke and Antonio Gibson or Taylor Heineke and and Jared Patterson or Taylor Heineke and J.D. McKissick or at some point down the road, Taylor Heineke and Curtis Samuel. I hope Scott recognizes, and I'm sure he does, he is the expert, that Taylor He He does certain things.

that maybe Fitzpatrick didn't do, and maybe they've got to tailor some things around a tailor's, no pun intended, Taylor's strength, his lead strength, which is mobility and the ability to evade guys that are coming after him to tackle him, whether that's in the pocket, outside the pocket, or in the open field, and he's got some speed. What makes me confident that Taylor Heineke might have a good game tomorrow night is his mobility. It's a short week. They're not going to put in a lot of new stuff. They don't have an opportunity to give even Heineke the same number of first team reps that he would get in a normal week. I think the Buffalo game and the long wind-up to the Buffalo game, it's possible that

Heineke will be better suited and better ready for that game than he is for tomorrow night's game. It's interesting. Remember the last time they played in Buffalo, it was 2019. It was Dwayne Haskins' first start. And it came after a Thursday night game against Minnesota where they had that long, you know, layoff before playing at Buffalo. And they lost to Minnesota with Case Keenham starting and then Haskins coming in. And Bill Callahan said, all right, it's time to move to the kid. Because we've got a mini buy here to get them ready. Now, Heineke has more experience than Haskins had at the time. But I think that the layoff between tomorrow night's game and the Buffalo game will allow Scott Turner to really tailor a game plan to tailor strengths,

perhaps even put in some new things for Heineke, like some Zone Read. Now, they also are concerned about his health, so I get that. But, you know, the Zone Read, the read option isn't something if a quarterback knows how to evade tacklers in the open field and slide. it's often something that keeps them healthier. It's more protective because it backs that pass rush off. We saw that in 2012. The cleanest pocket that RG3 threw from for the entire 2012 season

is when he stuck it in Alfred Morris's gut, pulled it back, and threw that drift route. That was a form of play action, but it was a different form of play action because Griffin was a potential runner. Anyway, that's enough. on Zone Read option. I just hope that Scott ends up giving Taylor Heineke in this offense some stuff that really

works to his strengths. I'm confident that his mobility tomorrow night will be a factor in the game, that he will make some plays with his legs after being pressured, with his legs outside the pocket and making throws down field that will help them in the game tomorrow night. That's what I'm most confident about. What I'm not as confident about is will he be able to diagnose what the Giants are doing? The Giants sent a lot of blitzers. They pressured the hell out of Teddy Bridgewater.

He was the sixth most pressured quarterback in the NFL in week one. The Giants have a pass rush. They've got a defensive front. They've got speed on defense. They sent safeties. Will Taylor Heineke get confused without a lot of prep time for the Giants? that's a concern for me. I'm also concerned that from the pocket on your big downs,

when you're facing nickel coverage, is he going to be able to throw the ball accurately on a consistent basis? I think that Taylor Heineke throws a very catchable ball. I think his misses are high, by the way. I think we noticed that last year. And then in the first two throws of the game against the Chargers, both of those first two throws when he came in before they punted after Fitzpatrick had gotten hurt. I think he came in on a second and long after that sack and then a, or maybe it was second and ten, third and ten.

And both of those throws missed badly and they were high. I think his miss is high. But I'm concerned, I shouldn't say I'm, it's not like I'm really concerned. I do think that he has average arm strength. and I do think his accuracy from the pocket and maybe even when he's extending a play, which is where he's best, isn't very consistent, the accuracy. You know, I found something that somebody sent to me, John, thank you for sending this to me. It was some of the draft analysis of Taylor Heineke.

It's a long time ago. I understand that. But I thought some of these analyses were interesting to go back and look at, which John sent to me. John's a long-time listener of the podcast and the radio show. And there were a couple of names here that were recognizable. Dane Bruegler, as an example, is a, you know, a longtime draft analyst, I think, with NFL.com. I get these guys all mixed up. But he said back then about Heineke, he called his armed.

strength average, noting he struggled to drive the ball down the field when he did not have a strong base under him. Lance Zeerline wrote, Heineke has the ball placement and accuracy of an NFL backup when he's protected and dealing, but his small stature combined with his inability to drive the ball and make NFL throws could be hard to overcome once he gets to an NFL camp. This from somebody else, Short with a weak arm is no way to get drafted as a quarterback in the NFL. But Heineke brings more to the table, especially as a backup prospect. Zerline also wrote at the time, he has a feel for the pocket. You're damn right he does.

While using words such as poise, touch, patience about his quarterbacking ability, Bruegler noted his quick easy release and complimented his natural leadership ability. I think those have held up, you know, those last couple of descriptions of what they saw. And by the way, this was after a workout after he had been tutored by Jeff Garcia. Remember, Jeff Garcia worked with Taylor Heineke when he was a younger player. I didn't know that when I, after the playoff game against Tampa said, he reminds me of Jeff Garcia or a poor man's Jeff Garcia. like it would be great if Taylor Heineke turned into actually a player of Jeff Garcia's capability.

But I think some of those descriptions of what they thought back then apply now. He's got an average arm. He doesn't drive the ball. He is on the smaller side, but I wouldn't put him on the diminutive side. He's not Doug Flutie. He has a great feel for the pocket, great pocket presence and poise. And he does throw with some tough. And he does have a quick, easy release.

You know, there is an effortless way in which he gets it out. And I thought he looked really decisive in quick getting the ball and getting rid of the ball on Sunday. But tomorrow night and the next several weeks are an opportunity that he was never guaranteed. I'm really intrigued to see what he does with it. I would bet against him being this guy that basically slipped under the radar of 32 teams. over and over and over again, and somehow he was Tony Romo or Kurt Warner. I think, you know, it's more likely than not that all of the evaluations of him over the years and all of the time that people like Bill O'Brien and Norv Turner and Scott Turner

and Ron Rivera, et cetera, have spent with him, they have a pretty good feel for what a really good NFL quarterback, starting quarterback, looks like. But I do think that he is a very exciting backup. And I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do. There is a bit of Colt McCoy comparison here. You know, for years, everybody wanted to see Colt McCoy get a chance, or certainly Jay Gruden did. I don't know if Jay Gruden really did.

I know he liked Colt a lot. And Colt was a gamer. You know, he had some baller in him, which is the same thing we would say about Taylor Hunt. Heineke. But Colt ultimately was a backup quarterback in the NFL. Who knows? Maybe this is the guy that everybody has missed on, and at 28, 29 years old, he's going to turn into a bona fide NFL starting quarterback. I am not concerned, and I'm actually confident that Taylor Heineke's going to make plays for this team starting tomorrow night. He's going to make plays where he's pressured and he gets

away from the pressure, and he turns a third and nine into a 12-yard run out of bounce. He's going to make plays on third and six where he's pressured, where he steps up in the pocket, and just as he's about to get hit, he floats one as everybody was coming towards him because they thought he was going to be a runner, and there's Logan Thomas right in the middle of the field wide open for a 17-yard play. He's going to make some of those plays. I think the injury thing is certainly a concern, but he worked on his body physically in the offseason to try to address that. I don't think we've seen enough football yet to know if his risk-taking and his,

I think he definitely has the mentality of taking risks and pushing the ball down field and throwing into tight windows very similarly to what Ryan Fitzpatrick is. We don't know if that's going to turn into a guy that turns into a turnover machine. just hasn't played enough for us to know that. But I'm confident that he's going to make some plays. He is an escape artist, a high-level one as an NFL quarterback. I'm concerned about some of the other things. I'm concerned in a short week against a team with some quickness and defensive playmakers if he'll be ready for tomorrow night on, you know, essentially a day and a half of real prep. I am concerned about whether or not when he has to drive

the ball from the pocket when he has to, you know, be able to throw accurately, I'm concerned that that will be an inconsistent feature of his game. All right, that's it on Taylor. Tomorrow on the show, I will predict final numbers for Taylor Heineke in the game tomorrow night. Why not? We don't do that a lot. I'll give you a final box score projection of Taylor Heineke on the show. show tomorrow. Okay, up next. The Giants are better than you think. I'll tell you why right after

these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky at mybooky. We've got a Thursday night game, Washington and New York tomorrow night. By the way, Washington pretty much a three, three and a half point favorite down from four, four and a half. That's essentially where it is right now. The total has dropped pretty significantly. from an opening number of somewhere around 43 down to right now it would appear. Let me check on that real quickly. I think it's the lowest over under of the week in the NFL at 40 and a half. Now the Thursday night game gets weird in terms of preparation,

and there have been some ugly NFL Thursday night games because of the short turnaround. Yes, Washington Giants at my bookie, the lowest. over under NFL total on the board at 40 and a half currently. The Jets Patriots are at 42.5. Go to MyBooky at mybooky.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. Make your deposit and watch it get doubled if it's your first ever deposit with MyBooky. I have told you this before, for whatever reason,

some of you continue to tweet me saying, I got my deposit doubled, but then I couldn't withdraw anything. Well, they're not going to let you make a deposit. of $1,000,000, and then they'll match that dollar for dollar, and you've got $2,000 in your account, and then you want to close your account out. That's not what they're doing. They're giving you that extra dollar-for-dollar match for you to gamble with, for you to bet with. Go to MyBooky at mybooky.orgie.com. Great college card, great NFL card, including the Sunday nighter Lamar Jackson against the Chiefs. The Ravens are three and a half point under

dogs in the Sunday night game. We've got some really good afternoon double header games. Dallas at the Chargers. Dallas right now, a three-point underdog in that game. Go to MyBooky at my bookie.com. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. And you'll get that deposit match dollar for dollar. So I watched the Giants Denver game last night. The broadcast of it, not the all 22. The all 22 is not available right now on NFL game pass. NFL game pass for those of you don't know is NFL.com's paid subscription where you get all the games, you get them condensed, you get them in full length, and then you're supposed to also get the all 22 of that as well, the behind the goalpost shots, the all 22 from both directions.

Anyway, I was impressed with the Giants. I know that's going to sound nuts because they lost 27 to 13. They're 0-1. By the way, Sequin Barclay limited in practice. He was limited to a certain extent against the Broncos as well. He's still not back to 100% Sequin Barclay. Evan Ingram's out of the game as well against Washington tomorrow night. But I was very surprised that I was impressed with the Giants in that game.

explain why. First of all, that game was not necessarily a game that was a one-sided beatdown. You had Denver led late in the fourth quarter, 27 to 7. They won the game 27 to 13. The Giants had a touchdown pass on the final play or got a touchdown on the final play of the game. They didn't force them to kick the extra point. It didn't impact the point spread at all. Actually, it could have if you had a major, you know, multi-team. teaser. Anyway, so there were a couple of things that stood out. The game itself really came down to three fourth down conversions by the Broncos. They were trailing seven to three late in the first half, and they were driving in New York territory. They had a fourth and two at the giant 48 yard line

with 48 seconds left in the first half. They went for it, and Teddy Bridgewater hit Cortland Sutton for a big play to move the chains. They ended up. up scoring with eight seconds left in the half, and they took a 10-7 lead to halftime. They also got the ball back to start the second half, and they went on a 16-play, 75-yard drive that included a fourth and one at the Giant Four. They went for it, and Teddy Bridgewater converted throwing a touchdown pass to Albert. I can't say his last name, Albert O, the big tight end from Missouri that they drafted the same year that they drafted Noah Fant from Iowa.

That was the third fourth down conversion for the Broncos. They had converted one early in the game on a drive that ended in a field goal. They had converted a fourth and seven in giant territory. Then they got the fourth and two, and then they got the fourth and one. Those were three crucial plays in the game. By the way, from the end of the first, first half to the beginning of the second half where they went on this 16-place 75-yard drive and took a 17-7 lead converting several third downs and then that final fourth and one at the giant four that

went for a touchdown. The Giants went without having an offensive touch almost an hour of real time. We've seen that before, you know, a long drive by one team at the end of the first half, then they get the ball to start the second half and they go on another long drive. And when you start adding it up time-wise, real clock, it's like a long time for the Giants. I think it was 57 minutes. Now, they did have a kneel down at the end of the first half after the touchdown by the Broncos. So they actually technically had one snap. It was a kneel down from their 25-yard line with five seconds left in the half.

But they literally didn't take a legitimate offensive snap for an hour. But the game was 17-7, and the Giants went on a long-distance. drive themselves. And first and 10 in the red zone, Daniel Jones, who didn't have a great game, but had an okay game at times. They didn't have the ball a lot. It was very similar to the Washington game where Washington, you know, was dominated time of possession, dominated play count wise.

Daniel Jones down 17-7, late third quarter, scrambled up the middle after some pressure, got hit, fumbled the ball. and Josie Jewell, the linebacker for Denver, the kid who went to Iowa, recovered it, got the hit and the recovery. And that was a major, major blow. And that's what Daniel Jones has done to a certain degree over a long period of time. He's been a turnover machine. Now, that was not an interception. That wasn't in the pocket, doesn't see where pressure is coming from.

This was him scrambling up the middle on an eight, nine-yard gain. and he fumbled at the end of it. By the way, just as a matter of fact, Daniel Jones is considered to be a turnover machine in his last seven games where he was the starter going back to last year, he's only thrown one interception, and he's got two fumbles.

So he's got three total turnovers in his last seven games, including the fumble last night. But he only has one interception in his last seven games. So that's a little bit about the game itself. There was actually a funny moment, funny for anybody that isn't a giant fan. Joe Judge, the coach of the Giants, challenged a touchdown, a reviewable play, and that review of that challenge ended up in a loss of a timeout for the Giants. You cannot throw that red flag out there on turnovers or turnovers, touchdowns,

or plays in the final two minutes because they are hand. by the booth. The automatically reviewed plays you can't challenge, and if you do, you lose a timeout. So what impressed me about the Giants? I'm going to start with their defense. Defensively, they have a lot of talent on that defense. You know, I talked a lot about the other teams in the division. You know, when we talked about things like, you know, rank the position groups. And I said, Dallas's offense would be number one, Washington's defense is number two. put him in any order you want. And then I really like the Philadelphia defense and I really like the giant defense. The giant defense, yes, they gave up a lot of third down and a lot of fourth down

conversions. I've already said that. Teddy Bridgewater had one of the best games I've ever seen Teddy Bridgewater play. He was under duress most of the game. The Giants really got after him and he made the throws. He made the throws from the pocket. He made the throws extending plays outside the pocket. He was outstanding. Teddy Bridgewater went 28 of 36 for 264 yards, two touchdowns. He was sacked twice in the game, also had a couple of key runs in the game. Now, he's not as mobile as Taylor Heineke is. But the giant defense, even though they gave up yards and they gave up conversion, it would be one thing to read the box score and say, oh my God, Teddy Bridgewater had a career game, and he did. He had a 115-7 passer rating and a 95.7 QBR, and it's because of all of these big third and fourth-down plays that he made and big-time throws.

And some of them were super close, super close to being sacks, super close to being contested and defended, but he converted them. Melvin Gordon had a 70-yard touchdown run when the game was basically over, which made the rushing totals look a little bit out of whack. It came very late in the game. The game was over. He busted one for 70 yards and a touchdown. So Denver ended up with 165 rushing yards, but really, they had 95 on 27 carries.

They ended up with 28 for a buck 65, and an average that looked really, really impressive. 5.9 yards per carry. but it was not a run roughshod through New York's defense kind of a day. It was a Teddy Bridgewater kind of a day. But the Giants have speed. Let me go actually front to back. Leonard Williams is a monster in their three-four.

Dexter Lawrence can really play. Blake Martinez is really underrated, I think, sometimes as a linebacker who can really make plays, who is really smart and can run. The rookie that they drafted from Georgia, O'Julari in the second round, looked really good when he was out there. And then you get to their secondary, Bradbury and Adory Jackson are the corners.

Peppers and Ryan are the safeties. Now they play this guy, Darnay Holmes, number 30, a lot in nickel. But all of these guys can run, all of these guys can cover, then Peppers and Logan in particular were used in multiple safety blitzes. I think, and I don't know because I didn't count, but I'm going to guess that 50% of the dropbacks, Bridgewater faced five or more rushers. And they were almost getting there all night long.

It was so close. They didn't. You got to close the deal. But I think they've got very good team speed. and I think they play very urgently, and I think that it's a pretty good defense, and it will prove out to be a pretty good defense if it stays healthy. That's always a key. The weakness of the giant team is its offensive line,

and Von Miller made Nate Solder really pay in this game. Andrew Thomas is their left tackle. Nate Solver was their starting right tackle. Thomas, of course, was picked after the Giants won that game against Washington. Washington got the two-pick. and the draft and took Chase Young, and the Giants settled with, what was it, the fifth pick and Andrew Thomas,

all based on the result of that game at the end of the 2019 season. I thought their offensive line wasn't horrendous. It is Von Miller, of course. He had two sacks, multiple pressures, and Daniel Jones was under pressure a ton in this game. I would say in watching what Von Miller did

that Chase Young and Montez Sweat, one of the two, has to step up big time, big time in this game. It's time. Like Daniel Jones can really hurt you with his legs. Taylor Heineke can too. Similarities between the two quarterbacks tomorrow night. But Von Miller owned Nate Solder. They had so many issues dealing with Von Miller. He's one of the best.

He's one of the best ever. if our pass rush is what we think it is, if these two young players are what we think they will be, and I think they're going to be special. But it's time to get home and really disrupt Daniel Jones, who has carved this team up over his career. All right, he has the, in his four games against Washington, Daniel Jones has thrown 10 touchdown passes. he has thrown three picks.

Some of you believe that he hasn't had any turnovers against Washington. He's thrown three interceptions against Washington, and he's fumbled three times. They just haven't lost any of those fumbles. It's time to make Daniel Jones look like the Daniel Jones against other teams. Not what Daniel Jones has been against Washington, and Von Miller certainly made him uncomfortable. I thought Kenny Goliday in his first game with the Giants look pretty good.

They played Cadarius Tony very little. He had COVID. He's been working his way back into shape. Kyle Rudolph's on their team now. They don't have Evan Engram for the game tomorrow night. And Barclay, who, as we know, has torched Washington. His last two games against Washington, 14 carries 170 yards in basically a half, if you recall at the end of that 2018 season,

when they lost 40 to 14 or whatever it was, and it was like 35 to nothing at half. He had 14 carries 170 yards in that game. And then in the game in which they won an overtime, 41 to 35, the game that Daniel Jones threw five touchdown passes in, Sequin Barclay, 22 carries 189 yards, four catches, 90 yards. Pretty damn impressive. Now, he does not and did not the other day look like the Saquan Barclay. It's going to be probably a slow re-entrance, and the short turnaround probably how he

helps Washington. They'll probably see a lot of Devante Booker, I'm assuming, tomorrow night. But Barclay will play, and they limited Barclay on Sunday, and he came out of it and he said he's feeling good, sore but good, but he has been limited in practice this week. Lastly, before we get to Brad Edwards, I just wanted to read this tweet that I got from Christy. Christy tweeted this morning when I was telling everybody what I had seen watching the Giants game. Just observations. Why are you talking so much about the Giants? Why are you building up the Giants?

Were the reigning division champs? They haven't been to the playoffs since 2015. I had to look that up. That is kind of amazing that the Giants haven't been to the postseason since the 2015 season. Look, I'm not building up the Giants. I'm telling you what I observed. And I said before the season that I think the Giants and Philadelphia are better than most of you think they are. And I don't know if I'm going to be right or wrong, but they've got players.

They've got really good players on defense in particular. Their issue like Philadelphia is, is, you know, their quarterback. Do they have the quarterback? I think in the Giants case, too, they certainly are flawed along their offensive line. But this notion that Washington's the division champ and that they're somehow a big difference between Washington and the Giants or Washington and Philadelphia, you're out of your mind.

This is a toss-up game. In terms of the players on both sides, this is a coin flip game. The line reflects that if it were played on a neutral field, they would have it as a pick-ham game. Washington gets three points for being the home team. The Giants beat Washington last year twice the division champ. Washington hasn't won a game against New York since 2018.

Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence and Blake Martinez and James Bradbury and Logan Ryan and Jibrill Peppers are really good players. I'm not saying that they're a playoff team. or that they're a double-digit win team? I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that they're equivalent to Washington. This is a toss-up game. These Thursday games get sideways and weird a lot of times,

and Washington should be the more desperate team playing at home, not wanting to lose too straight to open up their season at home. But the Giants aren't that much different than Washington. They're not. Now, do they have Chase Young? No, they don't have Chase Young. and what he could potentially be. They do have Leonard Williams, though.

They do have Sequin Barclay. He's not completely healthy at this point. But Washington doesn't have one player when healthy that matches Saquan Barclay. Their receivers, Ghaladay and Shepard and Slayton, and they're not even really working Cadarius Tony Annie at two touches the other night. It's certainly equivalent to what Washington has

if not better. Anyway, the 7 and 9 last year that ended up being a playoff 7 and 9 really did change the perspective of this team, not just from many of you, but for many people that follow the league, that analyzed the league. I think if they had gone 7 and 9 and finished 2nd or finished third. They wouldn't have had anywhere near the hype coming into this year. I mean, the truth is, we know, they won seven games. Most of their wins weren't that impressive in terms of the teams they beat. They had an improved defense that was a good defense, but far from a great defense. They struggled offensively. They had a nice offseason where they addressed a lot of the issues they had last year. But they're coming back against a schedule, at least on

paper that's much more daunting. We saw that in the opener in terms of the quarterback and the offensive weaponry that they faced. And the division's gotten better. You know, the Giants added players in Saquan Barclay's back and the Cowboys have Dak Prescott back and the Philadelphia Eagles are healthier. They were decimated by injuries last year. So it's going to be a challenge.

They're not, you know, in a class by themselves in this division or they're not with Dallas in a class by themselves in this. division. It may play out that way, but right now, you know, in terms of roster versus roster, there's not a hell of a lot of difference. I would take Philadelphia, I would take Washington's, I'm sorry, Dallas's offense over any other unit in the division. And I think Washington's defense should be way up there. I think Philadelphia's defense is going to be up there too. And I think the giant defense is really decent. All of this, you know, is continuing. contingent on health. If one team starts having injuries like it had last year, like this whole

division did, you know, we might, Washington might, if they're the healthy team, go out and slaughter the rest of the division. But here in week two, this is a totally loseable game tomorrow night. It's very winnable too. That's what coin toss games are. Vegas sees it that way. It's a coin toss on a neutral field. Washington's a slight three-point favorite at home. I think this is going to be a hard-fought low-scoring game. That, you know, hopefully it comes down to a play or two that Washington makes and one or two that the Giants aren't able to make. Maybe it comes down to mistakes.

Taylor Heineke doesn't make any, and Daniel Jones for the first time really throws up on himself in a game against Washington. That would be nice. Brad Edwards will be my guest next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, let's bring in a guest. on the podcast today. Brad Edwards, who is currently the athletic director at George Mason University, and he's been there for a while now and has stayed in the area for a long, long time after being a part of the Super Bowl team 30 years ago, the 1991 Skins team, which I still think is the

greatest skins team in history. And I think it's one of the great Super Bowl teams in history. Brad only had two interceptions in that Super Bowl and ended up being the runner-up MVP for those of you that forget, you know, I think people do forget that because it was RIP's year. It was such a great year for everybody, but Rippin had a great game. And offensively, you know, they scored 37 points. Defense set up a lot of that. But you were the runner up in Super Bowl 26. I needed those two votes, Kevin.

You know, I needed you to come in there and lobby a little bit more. You know, the quarterback is supposed to throw for, you know, 200 yards. But, no, it was, what a great memory and event, and that thing was just really incredible. You know, I'm thinking about this right now. There have been very few defensive Super Bowl MVP's in history. And the first one was Chuck Howley. I remember that, the linebacker from the Cowboys. Jake Scott, who was actually a safety for Washington, won it in the Super Bowl with the dolphins against.

Washington. So that was the only safety in NFL history to win a defensive Super Bowl MVP. Larry Brown, the Cowboys Corner, and I think Ray Lewis won an MVP too. And then Harvey Moore. Not a lot of them. Not a lot of them. But you were close. You were close. So I do want to get to the 91 team. And I've been doing this thing where we go week to week and talk about. the 91 week equivalent 30 years ago, and that was the shutout win over the Cardinals. But since I have you on and you're a big sports guy, and I'm sure you're paying attention to the team, what did you think of the loss of the Chargers on Sunday? Well, a couple of things.

One, it was hard to get past the play of Justin Herbert. I mean, you know, it was hard to just the guy was just so good. and was just so on the money. And, you know, particularly in the first couple of series with Washington sitting back in their zones, a lot. I mean, he just was just about brilliant. So I was really impressed by him, and I was a little bit surprised that Washington couldn't get more pressure on him early. You know, they weren't getting the ball out early and quickly, you know, the first pass was a quick, you know, flare pass to the running back. And, you know, so they were, they were immediately trying to kill that rush.

But I thought they would get more pressure early on than what they did, obviously, losing Fitzpatrick. You know, now you've got this instability back at quarterback. And, yeah, that's going to be a whole other issue for them going forward is how to solidify and get consistency out of that position, you know, now and leadership, you know, going forward. So I was shocked, too, to see them give up a six-and-a-half-minute drive at the end of the game. Yeah, they gave up 14 of 18 on third down. That's hard to do. Yeah, it really is hard to do. Yeah.

So what do you think of Taylor Heineke? You know, that's a big, you know, conversation in town. There were a lot of people that thought that he should have gotten this shot even before the season started. What do you think of them? Yeah, I like the guy. I think he's got good legs. He certainly proved to be on the verge of being a little bit of a playmaker. Last year you saw in the playoffs, you know, he made some plays. He moved around and got out of the pocket. He made some, you know, critical throws down the stretch and played in some high pressure situations. It is a different, as you know, more than interesting. of us, doing that over the course of the season is much different than coming in and doing that, you know, in a spot kind of fashion. So I like him.

I thought that he should have been in positions with what they had coming in, certainly Kyle Allen and, you know, what they had to be able to compete for that spot. But do I see him or have I seen him at the same level of, you know, some of the other rookie quarterbacks that have come in the league in the last couple of years. And obviously he's a little bit old. He's not a rookie. He's much older than that. But yeah, I haven't seen him at that level per se.

But as a guy who can come in and help you, for sure, I just have not really seen him as a, you know, the long-term answer, you know, to that. But these things are not a science and they're barely an art sometimes. Right. You had to face Randall Cunningham, who in that day was the mobile quarterback. I'm wondering, you know, in the way that football's evolved, and my personal belief is a lot of the, you know, the true innovation comes at the lower levels, the high school levels and the college levels. And what we've seen, you know, in the NFL, you know, it's really starting with RG3 and what Mike and Kyle Shanahan did with him in 2012 is we've seen many more quarterbacks be run threats on not as scramblers,

but out of the pistol or out of the shotgun is read option quarterbacks. How much harder in your day would that have been if you had to account for the quarterback as a runner on a first and 10? Right, which is much different. You know, you had a couple guys who could do that. You mentioned one other Randall Cunningham, who I think would be tremendous. mendous in today's game. Dave Young was that caliber of a runner.

Every bit as good as, you know, he's not going to be as good as Walmart Jackson, who few people are in terms of running the football like that, but to that degree. But he would have been unbelievable in today's game as well, running, you know, running the RPO, the spread option plays and, or spread option games, and making you truly account for them on every down, you know, first and ten, it just, yeah, it creates a whole other, you know, I hate to misuse that term, but it just creates another dynamic for you to take somebody out of, out of the defense to account for them that you would otherwise, you know, either be bringing the pressure of a quarterback or dropping into coverage, either man to

help you in a combo situation or, you know, into a zone. Yeah, I mean, there's that part of the game that's changed significantly since you were in it. And now the RPO game, which I just wonder as a defensive back, how hard would it be to, you know, to handle quarterbacks that come up to the line of scrimmage and they've got a run pass option based on what they're looking at. And the ball's coming out quickly. Yeah, and you've got to be a lot more disciplined. I mean, when you were playing the 49ers of the 80s and early 90s, you know, ball is coming out like, I mean, sometimes I can remember going, where the heck is the ball?

How did they get in and out of the huddle so fast and get rid of the ball? A little different, but then the RPO game, which is, you know, really a hard run influence on you out of the box, and you have to be really, really disciplined, you know, particularly in college or high school, if you're sort of that fringe conflict player, you know, you've got to be really, really disciplined and you've got to be smart in terms of being able to walk in and out of the box and how you're influencing what, you know, quarterback seeing pre-snapsed. You know, I am before, before I called you today, I, you know, I remember when they signed you as part of that whole Plan B thing, which nobody remembers. But they signed you, you had played with

I remember it. I know you remembered. It was great for you. and you ended up in a great spot, and you were in a great spot, and you were actually on a pretty good team even before coming to Washington. You were with the Vikings, and you've mentioned the 49ers a couple of times, and Steve Young, do you know what you were against the 49ers in the postseason? Yeah, 0 for 3. Yeah. Or 0 for 4.

Actually, 0 for 4. My first three years ended, yeah, in the day. divisional playoffs in San Francisco. 1989 with Minnesota, the Vikings at Candlestick lost in the divisional round, 34 to 9. The next year with the Vikings, Brad was on a team that lost to the 49ers 41 to 13. That was the year the 49ers were going for the three-peat and they ended up losing to the Giants in the NFC championship game the next week and then the Giants beat the bills. then with Washington in 90, the divisional round loss at Candlestick,

28 to 10, and then in Joe Gibbs' final game, with you guys being the defending champs on that muddy field that day, which we had a chance to win that game. We should have won. There's no excuse. When I look back in my career and think about specific games that I really, really regret losing, that's one because we should have won that game. We were better than they were. We'd

gotten over the early I don't know what the right word is. The hangover early in the season of being a defending chance. Yeah, there's a definite hangover. We had gotten past that, got on a roll. We'd beaten Dallas pretty soundly

a couple weeks before this game. There's no excuse that we didn't win that game when we fumble a, you know, an exchange. Again, things happen, and I'm not throwing it on those guys, but that's a game I really look back and go, we should have gone back to the Super Bowl and knowing we would have beat the bills again. I think we would have beaten Dallas the next week.

Yeah, Dallas ended up going to Candlestick and winning, and that was the first of Jimmy's and Jerry's Super Bowls. But that game, it was 17-13. The 49ers had done. dominated the game early. You guys had come back. You had taken control of the game, even though you hadn't taken the lead. And, you know, Brian's told me this many times, and I've looked at the play because the game

is available on YouTube. That exchange between Rippin and Brian Mitchell in the backfield that ended up, you know, fumbling on the muddy turf and getting recovered by San Francisco, the hole was gaping. You know, Brian Mitchell wouldn't have been touched going into the end zone, and it would have been, you know, at that point it would have been a Washington 20 to 17 lead, and you would have gone to Dallas the following week for the NFC title game. That would have been fascinating. We were at the point where we were playing well in that.

We were playing better in Dallas against Dallas, and we were playing against them here. So it was almost kind of like, why do you want to go to Dallas? Because we were playing well there, but I remember thinking about that play going, why don't we just down it and kick the field goal? Like just down the ball, kick the field goal. And then I looked up and I saw that hole and I went like,

that's why that guy's the head coach and I'm not. Yeah. Yeah, that was it. I mean, we had no idea that Joe would retire, you know, two months later, a month and a half later. But that was the heart of a champion, man. It's been 30 years. So we're going to get to this team in a moment.

We've sort of already gotten there. But it's amazing that that was the last. time that this franchise was truly relevant. You know, that loss to the 49ers, Gibbs retires, and it's been a slow burn since. Brad Edwards, who was a part of those teams, including the 91 team and is the athletic director of George Mason. Find out a little bit about Mason and what's going on there with Brad here in a few minutes. Real quickly, do you view tomorrow night's game against the Giants, even though it's only week two? but given the expectations, do you think this is must win?

I don't know that it's must win at this point. I think I want to see them play well. They're at home. Over the course of the season, you and I both know lots of things are going to happen here over the course of a lot more games. People have overcome a lot more than a 0-2 start. But an 0-2 start at home, you know, I just, that's what I want to you got to take advantage of these kinds of you know opportunities so

it's real important it's not a it's not a death mail if you don't win it but it's you're put you in a different place for sure all right let's get to the 1991 30 years ago this week and I'll ask you more about the 91 team what I've been doing on the radio show and I think on the podcast too is I've usually found a couple of plays from YouTube, but the only thing available was Chris Berman and Tom Jackson's video highlight package from that Sunday night as the Cardinals came to town in week three. Both teams were 2 and 0. So I want everybody to listen to the highlight package of Washington's 34-0-0

over the Cardinals. This week we had a battle atop the division. The surprising Phoenix Cardinals at the Washington Redskins, both going in 2-0. The Cardinals have yet to lose this year in the preseason or regular season, but they're going into their house of horrors. 1978 was the last year that they won against the Redskins at RFK. Joe Gibbs, who is 10 for 10, going in against the cards at RFK,

tried to ride Ernest Finer early. And if the horse is running, you keep playing them at the $100 window. Finer. Up the middle for 11 yards. Finer. Nine yards. It's only fitting the first and goal from the three-hundred. gets the ball.

Right. Ernest Biner. A surge, a touchdown, it's 7-0 finer. Oh, yeah, he plays for the Redskins. Joe Fugles' team has been to dooting its horn. At the end of the first quarter. And watch, Rippin, dump it off the finer, and he does the rest. Black, get him, rub, then, B, B, B, Sett, 31 yards all the way down to the eight-yard line.

A huge first quarter for Biner. It's a good game for most of it. 98 total yards, 52 on the ground, 46 through the air. In the second quarter, Biner the focus with Joe Giff's. him in the decoy. Look at Rippin' throw the block for Ricky Sanders. It's a 10-yard touchdown 14-0-0-0 skin, so Fritz Schumer had to work that out for him. Well, the Cardinals have forced 13 turnovers in their first two games, and they do it like this. Freddie Joe Nunn comes in, makes the strip of the ball on Biner, and then has presents of mind to go and recover the

ball. That's a great play by Freddie Joe Nunn. But that play didn't turn into any damage because Charles Mann did the damage to the car. Man beats two times. Man. Robbins here with a spin move and chases down Tupa get a sack on the ensuing punt the aggressive cardinal special teams come through Ken Harvey wraps up Ryan Mitchell tyrone stone makes the hit Mike Gordage recovers for Phoenix so there's still that could be blown up but they're down only 14 nothing hanging in there Tom Tupa sees Charles Mann in its face bad throw Brad Edwards makes the pick Joe Buegel says well Tom that was one you should have eaten in the third quarter Mark Rippin reads the defense.

The up, the faith. Robert Massey bites it. Gary Parker's all along. 29 yards, a beautiful play. The skins are rolling 21 to nothing. Rippin was 15 of 23 for 181 yards. No mistakes. Celebrating on the sidelines is the underrated.

Gary Park, I don't think he's underrated anymore. Things didn't get better, though, for Tom Toof. Tommy Tupper looking over the middle here. He didn't see Wilbur Marshall. And look at a linebacker. Run the option. He runs that option on John Johnson. It makes a couple of nifty moves to get himself into the end zone.

28-0 nothing, watching. 55-yard play. Two interceptions today for Wilbur Marshall. Not a great day for Tom Tupac was picked three times. Redskins' defense. Two shutouts at home this year in their three games, 112 to 31 in their three games, and the Redskins roll over the Phoenix Cardinals, 34 to nothing.

For the second time in the first three weeks, the skins had shut out an opponent. started with a 45-0-0 win over Detroit. Then week two was a 33-31 win over the Cowboys to go two-in-one on a Monday night. And then the Phoenix game, and they were the Phoenix Cardinals back then, week three, September 15th, literally 30 years ago to the day, 34-0-0 over Joe Bugle and the Cardinals for the second shutout in three games. I want to go back a little bit before the first three games of the season.

season before we got to that game. Did you feel being a part of this team in training camp before the season started that you were on a Super Bowl caliber team? I didn't think we were on a Super Bowl caliber team. I thought we were on a playoff team for sure. You know, from the success that we had the year before. And it was a really, really good team. And I just didn't see us quite yet at that point. And really when we came out of preseason, you know, our ones had played pretty well. For the most part, we were one in three. So you're trying to figure out, do we have enough depth to be, you know, to take you deep enough to get to a Super Bowl?

But when we came out and beat Detroit 45 to nothing, I kind of went, okay, this team is, this team is a, a little different than what I've seen the last three years of my career. It was, see, I've always felt like the 91 team is easily the best of all of the Skins Super Bowl teams because I think it was such a complete team and I think it was by far in away the best defensive team in the group. You know, you guys had, you know, incredible pass rushers. And by the way, some people still believe Dexter Manley was on that team. He wasn't.

You know, it was jumpy-gatherers and it was Fred, Stokes, and it was Charles Mann as the pass rushers with Tim Johnson and Eric Williams inside. You had Wilbur Marshall on that team, a veteran presence with Matt Millen. And then the secondary was a future Hall of Famer in Daryl Green, the future general manager of the Washington football team, Martin Mayhew, Danny Copeland and you. So the shutout over the Lions, you start to get a sense. but did you know that you'd be this dominant defensively? You guys started off that season, Brad.

You know, I think it ended up, let me look it up, because I think it was three shutouts in the first five games of the year. I mean, it was dominant. Yeah, it was unbelievable. And for me, and I sort of, you have to put it in context of where I'd come from, which was, you know, I had been,

it's been my first two years with Minnesota, who I'm pretty sure we were number one in the NFL both of those years in total defense. And I want to say in 89 we might have had, I think that team might, at that point had set a record, I believe, for sacks, I think second only to the 86 bears for, I want to say it was 71, 72 sacks, something like that. You'll have to go look it up for me.

But that team was loaded. I mean, they were unbelievably, Pete Carroll was a secondary coach for Peter, Monty Kiffin was on that that defensive I mean they were unbelievable defensively. And so I'm comparing that versus you know a little bit more of a combo man

a little more of a BIMBA don't break mentality that Rissy had. And we you know you just didn't have quite as what you felt like was the dominant of a front but little did I know how good a guy like jumpy

gathers was going to end up being what we could end up doing with him by getting him isolated on offensive centers and guards, and he would just decimate them. I mean, literally picked them up. I've never seen this, except when LT almost blocked a punt with my rear end, single-handedly lifting me up. Other than that jump, he would get into a guard and literally almost picked him up off the ground. He was so strong. And what that allowed us to do was just really incredible on passing downs for sure. You know, the Vikings, the 89 Vikings team, second most sacks by a team in NFL history behind the 84 bears, not the 85 bears, which everybody always considers the greatest defensive team in NFL history. You just said something that was interesting to me. You said

Richie was more bend, don't break. He wasn't always that way. Richie was whatever it took against whatever the competition was. There is this feeling among those of us that are long-time fans. And I found that, not to cut you off, but I found that out over my tenure with him and how impressed I became with him by that ability to just do so many different things. But that was my feeling about them coming in. They weren't a pill their ears back and just go after you. And that early Vikings team just about ruined me as a safety because when things changed defensively later on in my career, I was so programmed to jump things so quickly

because teams couldn't hold the ball on us. And ultimately, that initiative. up, I had to make a big transition in how I played the game, and it cost me a little bit later on in my career. Who was the head coach of that team? Was it Jerry Burns? It must have been because he was the- Yeah, with Jerry Burns.

Yeah. Yeah, you were not, you were still in college, right, when the Vikings played the skins in the NFC championship game with Burns as the head coach a few years earlier? Correct. Yeah, I was a senior at South Carolina. Yeah. Dolman and Millard combined for 39 sacks. on that 89 Vikings team.

And you remember, I mean, Floyd Peters, Pete Carroll, Monty Kiffin, all a part of that staff in 89. So you were used to well-coached defenses. There is, in a lot of the nostalgia that a lot of us have for the past, because that's really the glory years are way in the past, there is always this feeling we have that Richie Pettibone was as much responsible for the success

as Joe Gibbs was and that Richie somehow was brilliant at halftime figuring out what had been done and then making adjustments. Is that more lore or is it true? It's true. And Kevin, he would come up with these, you know, we have these unbelievably complex game plans. really more complex because we had all this main combo, you know, kind of systems and coverages and lots of checks and adjustments. And he would come in at halftime, he and Larry Peccatello, and it really was a great

combination between the two of them. And they would come up with these overly simplistic types of adjustments and literally drawing them up on the, you know, on a board on the floor in the locker room. if there was a board, you know, a big white board on the wall or something. And it's almost like they're drawing them up in the sand, and they would work every single time. It was just unbelievable and uncanny how they could do that and just see it in that sort of view lens.

Does anything, does a specific story about Richie drawn it up at halftime against a certain opponent, does anything jar your memory? Is anything super memorable? There's nothing better than the play they drew up. And I'm not to just make, it was really maybe more peck at this point, but but again, a good combination of the two in the Super Bowl. Govea. On the first series, the Guevea Blitz was literally drawn up, you know, at half time.

And, you know, the Gevella touchdown. I think it was Andre Collins coming, you know, around the corner, around the inside. And I mean, it was just brilliant. I mean, just they literally drew that up. And so what did they, well, how did it? They drew it up and they said, if, if Andre you do this, Kurt, Jim Kelly's going to throw the ball right to you? Just about me.

I'm not kidding. It was almost that straightforward. It was like you sit up. They're going to have to side adjust and they're going to side adjust back to this side. And if you sit right here where they're going to throw the flant, you need to sit right in the throwing line. Yeah, that's wild. It's really incredible stuff.

That day against Phoenix, 34-0-0, 30 years ago today, Wilbur Marshall had a 55-yard interception return. And you heard Berman calling it the option, like he stuck the ball out like he was running the option on the return. One of the most athletic plays where he, you know, when he reaches, when he grabbed that football, I mean, that guy was as a freak of a nature athlete as anybody, you know, I've ever seen. I want to ask you. You never really knew where he might end up on a defense in order to coverage sometimes. But you're like, wow, Wilbur, where are you? Or, you know, how do you end up over here? But, I mean, when it came time to just pinning his ears back and make it plays,

I mean, he was pretty, pretty dark and special. So I was going to ask you about him specifically because when I've talked to Richie in the past, it's always interesting to me that Wilbur Marshall, it would appear to me reading between the lines that he was difficult for Richie. That, you know, he's not one of Richie's all-time favorites, despite being probably one of the best athletes to play for Richie. So was that it? You know, you never knew where he was going to be?

Probably an understatement. That's a well-understatement. Yeah, you just never really knew, you know, because he could drip, you know, sometimes in coverage. And he might have been supposed to be. and blitzing, and suddenly he's in the middle of the field, and you're like, what are you doing up here? But he, you know, he also had a great sense for the game, but that was very, and I can see what that's being difficult for Richie, because it was such a disciplined system that relied

on everyone being, you know, playing a role, being in a specific place. And defenses are like that, you know, for the most part anyway, but particularly that one. And Wilbur could create some whole, you know, for you that, you know, from time to time that would, you know, present the breath. What was it? Have I said that diplomatically enough? No, you did. But it's funny because, you know, Richie's pretty direct.

Like, you're not going to get him. And I'll never forget, and this is years ago now. And we're talking about, you know, those teams. And I said, well, what about Wilbur Marshall? And I don't remember, I'm going to paraphrase here, but it was something like, Wilbur was a handful, you know, and I said, but he was extremely talented. Yeah, but he was a handful. Like, he was, he was a handful to coach. Signal caller for that defense, yes, he was a handful. And, you know, I made, try to make extra concerted effort to prompt him, tip him on things

that, you know, or remind him, you know, ahead of time, hey, remember, you've got the A gap or, you know, at the wide blow, you're, you're blithing on this player, you've got the tied in or things, things in that new. Well, you were the signal caller on that defensive team, right? Right. So you were essentially the point guard for Richie on, on that defense. What was that relationship like? You've talked about him as a coach. What was the relationship with him like between the two of you? He obviously thought, a lot of you. Yeah, and I had a great relationship with Richie and thank the world of him. I mean, not only was he a tremendous player himself, which you immediately have respect for.

He's got that instant credibility when you walk in the door. But we just, he treated me like, he just treated me with, you know, kind of like a mini coach to the point where at a certain point in my career, I had the authority to basically scrap whatever we were playing and just called something completely off book. And I, you know, now you better be right when you do that. But I had that ability. And there were a handful of times I was able to do that in certain games. And I'd come over and he'd go, you made the right play, babe.

That was the right call. He always said babe, yeah. He always called me Babe. Now, we didn't have it out one time. Now, he didn't like it when I waved him off in the playoffs of that year when they were running Deon Sanders in at, we're playing the Falcons, and they're running Deon in a receiver. And every time they go two and two, Dion's the number two on the weak side, go figure.

And Richie keeps calling all these five and six-man blitz, zero coverage blitzes, which puts, hello. You on Dion. on number two. And he keeps calling this over. And they know. I mean, as soon as you come out and you see the blitz come and you're looking, where's my weakest matchup? I'm going to side adjust off that. Hey, hello, NFL fastest man, slow safety over here. And they're trying to figure that out. Only we started getting pressure. And at some point, I started, I tried to wave off a call or two that Riffie was signal. And I was like, don't call that. And he rips the headset off. And he, I can see him just over there, you know, MF.

me called, just giving me an earful, and I came to the sideline, and he was just, I mean, he was all over me. And I finally said, are you trying to lose the game force? And he looks at me like, and I tell him, I said, NFL's fastest man, flow safety. And he finally just starts laughing. And, you know, he's like, you just, you just call what the blankety-blank I call. And I said, I got it. So we had a great relationship. Well, you know, one of the things, and the 91 Falcons, and the famous game that year is the seat cushion game in the postseason at RFK. But Richie dominated, he dominated a lot of teams. But the run-and-shoot teams, which, by the way, the Lions were that year,

you know, Mouse Davis's run-and-shoot, Richie just for whatever reason said, really? You're going to basically spread the field and not block us. We're coming with everybody. And he decimated those teams back then. killed them, killed them. And the minute we started meeting that week on Wednesday, or sometimes I'd be talking to him on Monday or Tuesday about it. But the minute we came in on Wednesday, you knew immediately that he was sort of licking his chops on that system. He was like,

we're going to bring the house, and we're going to do it from every look. And that team could really disguise really well, too. I mean, again, you got Martin Mayhew and Darrell Green out there. I mean, two guys that, you know, know the heck what they're doing out on the corners. And the same – Danny Copeland, same kind of – you know, we had – you know, the same ability to – which you don't see – you know, that's sort of missing a little bit today. You know, I think that was missing a little bit Sunday. I kept saying to somebody was locked in the game with, you know, we're not doing a great job of, you know, disguising this, you know, and we're kind of showing them what we're playing. you guys did a really good job i mean you're speaking to also right you had a i mean it was a super high

cue team and staff but that defense in particular i mean with you and darrell and martin mayhew and matt millen is a part of it charles man that was a super high IQ team kirk guvaya i mean super high IQ, right, as a defensive team? Andre Collins. Yeah. I mean, he just, you know, all those guys, they were all really, really super smart and intelligent individuals and very, you know, high IQ football players. The 34-0-0 win over the Cardinals, there's not much to talk about with respect to that game.

I mean, it was Joe Bugle coaching on the other side, which, you know. That opening drive was the thing to talk about. It went forever. And it was all Ernest Biner, right? Right. Yeah. Can you imagine being on the other side of that with Ernest Biner and Gerald Riggs? I mean, like, really.

Actually, that leads me to this. How early on, or when did you realize that offensively, this was going to be a juggernaut team? Yeah, I always felt like we were pretty good offensively. I've always had that, you know, impression of the Gibbs teams and his, ability to really do different things. And the offensive line you knew was as good as there was in pro football already. And I'm always being a secondary guy and a high school quarterback, you know, you think I'm a perimeter fan favorite, but really to me, it's one lost in the trenches.

And I've always been a big fan of line play. And that line, they gave you a shot. and you knew it out of the box. What's your most, what was it like to play with Daryl Green, you know, very close to Daryl Green on defense? And then what was it like to be on the team with Mark Rippin that year? Yeah, Daryl is one of the people I admire as much as anyone on the planet. And it's as much for how he, what he brought every day for a guy that had so much ability.

And you and I've seen, you know, unbelievable. athletes and extraordinarily talented individuals, you know, many who bring it every day. And there's always those that don't necessarily, you feel like, don't really get the most out of it every day. But Darrell Green, watching that guy day in and day out, drill in, drill out, just compete, Kevin. And at that point in life, I finally, you know, I was getting old enough to be able to understand what I was looking at and be able to say, hey, here. There's a Hall of Famer right here and look at this guy practice and compete minute in, minute out.

It was really incredible. Now, same thing. He could lose his technique sometimes, and it would drive, you know, Emmett Thomas crazy, but he was such an extraordinary competitor and athlete that he could always run himself, you know, back into great position. But he just, you never doubted where you were in a huddle with that guy because he's the guy you wanted to be. in the in the boxhole with because he was going to always compete and he was no don't let me be slow to get a call out because he would remind me and it's like get the call out and I'm like I'm like and I remember saying one time well you've been here like 20 years can't you but you should know the call

and uh but we laugh about those kinds of things today but he just was such a you know unbelievable athlete even better person what about rip what was I mean when did you guys realize that, you know, he had some big games in the year before. He threw the picks in the playoff game that ended the season before against the Niners. But did anybody see that kind of year coming? I don't think so. I mean, you knew he had a cannon. You know, he wasn't, as we know, the fastest of human beings.

Right. You know, wasn't going to really scramble out of a pocket. You know, you had to build them. You had to build a standard pocket for him. You know, he wasn't going to be the greatest guy on a bootleg, but he could stand up in there, had good size, good height, good delivery. You know, pretty good mechanics and, you know, could really throw a rope when he needed to. But, yeah, I don't think we saw it at that level.

Now, when you're only sacked, you know, five or six times in a year, you know, six, was it six? I think it was six, yeah. I mean, think about that, six times in an NFL season. Like that's ridiculous. And the confidence that you can develop as a quarterback and when you've got three guys outside like you have with, you know, Gary Clark and Art Monk and Ricky Sanders and in a running game like that, that really helps you. And Rip made the most of it, I will say that. And he had, I thought, tremendous leadership guilt, too. I mean, he was got a step in the huddle and said, here's where we're going.

seven sacks that year I was wrong he got sacked seven times that year and then Rutledge in the final game of the year when he came in got sacked twice why didn't you ever get into coaching when you finished you went right into

administration college administration given that you were a coach on the field why didn't you coach yeah I think I'd come out of business school at South Carolina always thinking I wanted to be an investment banker had worked a good bit of the last part of my NFL career for Merrill Lynch and sort of fell into the administrative side.

You know, and I, my dad was a coach, and I saw how Joe, you know, here's the guy who slept at the park three nights a week and only lived, you know, 10 minutes away. And so that was my vision of if I'm going to coach, that's how I'm going to do it. And, you know, by that time I had older kids. Now, when we hired Steve Spurrier at South Carolina, who was a tremendous college coach. He did offer me the secondary job there one year. Oh, he did? Yeah, I ultimately turned it down, you know, just because I had that.

If I'm going to do it, like, I'm sleeping at the park three nights a week, and I just wasn't at the point in life where I could do that. So there are many days I go back and forth between, you know, I wish I would have coached, but I wouldn't be at the place I am now in life if that were the case. It would be different. Might be a totally different place. Yeah, you were at South Carolina. That was your first, you know, big administrative job as the assistant AD at South

Carolina during those, you know, as it approached the spurious, you're hiring, which I'm trying to think, you know, he leaves here in 2003. Did you guys hire him in 2004? Was he the South Carolina? coach the next year or the year after? That next, I want to say he sat a year, and then we hired him, and I thought he would be a tremendous, I wasn't sure how he would transition to the NFL, but he was a tremendous college coach and loved working with him for lots of different reasons.

Did you guys ever have conversations about your two vastly different experiences with the Washington football team organization. Totally. So what he is a great story. When he came in, we brought him in and pretty much Mike McGee and myself and Steve had been on all the conversations. And so

we brought Steve in. And it's the same thing where you're driving. You know, you're flying the plane to like four different airports. Right. You know, all this misdirection stuff to get him in and there's people still popping up in the bushes and all that kind of stuff. But we bring them in to get a tour.

and, of course, I wear my Super Bowl ring, and he looks down, he goes, hey, Brad, I see that ring on your finger. Turned out a little better for you than it did for me up there, huh? I was like, so we just, you know, he was tugging cheek about it all the time. Or he'd, I go in and watch films sometimes with him, and I, you know, say, coach, you ever going to block that back defender to the playside? He said, now, you know why I couldn't run the ball in the NFL? Well, I mean.

He was a tremendous college coach. Oh, God. And let me just say, the two years that he was here were so wildly entertaining. It just, he wasn't cut out to be an NFL coach. And look, you knew him well, obviously. And I think the narrative on why he wasn't a pro coach was, you know, everything's so close in the NFL. It's incredibly tight. And, you know, you don't have a significant talent advantage, you know, nine games out of 12, you know, because you can.

Recruiting is not going, you can't out recruit. You can out recruit. But he could over steam them. He could out scheme them, too, in the passing games for sure. He lost interest here. He lost interest here. There's no doubt. I think, I'm wondering, like, how long it took for him to realize, look, he had the owner to deal with, obviously, and the bunch of buffoons that were running around in the front of.

office at the time here. But I'm wondering how quickly he realized he had made a mistake. The money wasn't a mistake, obviously, but it was a fish out of water. Square peg round hole, him in the NFL. Yeah, the minute he came, he was on the market, and Mike McGee, we started talking about Steve. I looked like that's absolutely the direction we need to go in. And Mike was convinced from the beginning as well.

Well, you know, because we've, Lou Holtz had been our coach, and Lou had done a really good job. But Lou was, I'm a turnaround guy and, and I've turned around and now I need to, you know, I want to move on. And he really did a great job in helping us land Steve as well. All right. Tell us what's going on with Mason. Obviously, you know, in this town, George Mason's basketball program is of high interest. You've got a new coach there this year. How are things going at Mason?

Yeah, I mean, I love this guy, Kim English, and sometimes, you know, I'm trying to control my sense of optimism. And, you know, we've just gotten to that place where we'd gone from 13th to about the highest fifth in the conference. You know, when I got here, we've just gotten in the 8-10, you know, which is a, again, it's going to be the sixth and ninth best conference, you know, in that range, give or take, you know, in America. So it was, we were no longer in the colonial. And but we just got to that point where we were, we were really concerned. Could we move it forward? And, you know, college basketball also changed overnight with the portal. And Kim English was the guy, you know, been watching.

It had gotten on my radar a little bit. And, I mean, here's just a guy that has an, you know, an unbelievable NBA or, you know, player pedigree from being a second round draft pick in the NBA, great college player. And a phenomenal coach, and I mean, for a guy who's 32, you would never know it. I mean, his sense of the game, game situation, his ability to recruit and be authentic and build relationships is really tremendous. And so I've loved what I've seen so far in the team that he's put together. And, you know, not much more than four months. In making that higher, I'm just curious, because he was an assistant.

at Tennessee recently, coaching with Rick Barnes, who, if my memory serves me correctly, coached at George Mason way back in the day. Got his first head job at Mason. He was on Gary Williams' Ohio State staff, so I think he, then he ended up at Mason after that, and then, you know, then it was, you know, Providence and Clemson and Texas, obviously. God, man, you know, Rick Barnes, I've always thought about Rick Barnes. Nobody's done the, let's find the big.

time football school with a pretty good basketball program so I can sort of fly under the radar. You know, coaching at Clemson, Texas, and Tennessee, you know, because he's a hell of a coach. He's a hell of a coach. But the pressure is really at the universities he's been at is really never on him. You know, it's on the football coach. And spring football ends up being a bigger sport than the basketball program. But did you end up talking to Rick a lot about Kim? Several times.

He was a huge fan of Kim's and just validated things that I had picked up early in conversation. Pat Boyle, again, said he was... Colorado? Colorado was as good assistant as he had ever had. I talked to no less than seven NBA executives who all said the same thing about the guy. If you got a chance to hire that guy, I'd do it, pat myself on the back and call. in a day. That's awesome. So in all my group, I had an NBA president and another former college coach who won a national

championship really working most closely with me and then bringing in other folks around. And they all, you know, they all said the exact same thing about this guy. And so his, yeah, his intellect and knowledge of the game for someone. I mean, it just reminds you of a Sean McVeigh type of coach, you know, those kind of the Brandon Staley's and others, these, you know, younger guys who are really, you really know the game very well and are extraordinarily, you know, intelligent. How important, and I'm assuming that you're intimately involved in scheduling, correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. How important is it for you to get big local games and how hard is it to get them and then to get them at the Patriot Center?

Well, to get big local games at the Patriot Center is almost impossible in the non-conference segment. Everyone wants home games and as many as you can get them in non-conference. You know, the same reason why I want American to come. I don't necessarily want to go to American the same thing with Maryland. You know, they don't want to come over here. They want us to go over there or Georgetown. But you would take the game with Maryland and Georgia. Georgetown every year wherever they play it, right? Absolutely.

And that's what we're doing that, you know, for the second year in a row with Maryland. Yeah. You know, for sure, we would do that every year. And, you know, for lots of, you know, what I think are obvious reasons, you know, the talent, the net, the impact on your net ranking, you know, being able to see teams at a high level, draw local interest, you know, from fans. and yeah, but it is hard to get them at home in college basketball. And rarely are you building out beyond a year. You're scheduling year to year, which is different than football, and obviously you have fewer non-conference games, but it's way more in advance.

I really enjoyed this. I appreciate it so much. Some of the stories about the 91 team were so interesting. and your thoughts on the current team as well. I wish you the best of luck with everything at Mason. I appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun and look forward to continuing to listen to one of my favorites in you every morning on my one mile commute into Mason.

Well, you're not listening long enough. You've got to stay in that car for at least a quarter hour. I do. Sometimes I do sit outside. Sometimes I am sitting in the parking lot listening to you. Oh, well, that's very nice. Look, the feelings mutual because that team, as you know, I talk about a lot. And it's just amazing to me that it's been 30 years.

And the franchise, I mean, if you had told you. I know, but we both know it. Like in 1991 at the end of that year, if somebody told either one of us, 30 years from now, you will have won three playoff games as a franchise. That would have been just outrageous. and we would have sent that person to get psychological help. You would have bet every penny you had if you were betting, man, against that. There's no way that will have to happen.

Thanks, Brad, so much. Really appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate you too, pal. Have a great one. You too. Brad Edwards, everybody, the Super Bowl 26 MVP runner up. Two interceptions in that game. He also had a play, and I didn't ask him about this.

but I believe it was his hit on Andre Reid in that game. And it may have been a little bit late and it wasn't called, but it caused Reed to get super upset. Get up, rip his helmet off, I think if I recall, and ended up getting a 15-yard penalty, which helped the team as well in that Super Bowl. A dominating Super Bowl, 37 to 24. The score nowhere near indicative of what I

blowout that Super Bowl. Was Washington led, I think, 24-0 nothing early in the third quarter after that play that he referred to the halftime adjustment for the Guvea interception? But we will continue on the podcast and the radio show just to look back 30 years ago to the corresponding week

and game during that incredible season. Thanks to Brad, that was fun. That's it for the day. Back tomorrow, full preview of Washington and the Giants. Tommy will be with me. I may have an early smell test if you even want it at this point. But anyway, looking forward to tomorrow with the Thursday night game for Washington and New York. Thanks for listening. Enjoy the rest of your day or evening or tomorrow morning.

We will talk tomorrow.