The Kevin Sheehan Show - Heinicke Magic

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Cooley and Kevin with the Washington-Indy recap. Some NFL talk and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Clock ticking, down to 40 seconds. Heineke, looking, Heineke, they keep the play alive again. He flips it downfield and McCloren. The hometown kid pulls it in at the one-yard line.

What a grab. He ripped it away from Stefan Gilmore. A spectacular continuing. Tested catch by Terry McClorn, a catch that really people are talking about and we'll talk about for a while. Chris Cooley is with me doing the podcast in studio. Good morning to you. Good morning. I just saw the catch for the first time 25 seconds ago.

I just gave Cooley a crash course in what happened in the game and then let him watch the fourth quarter, which you did. You watched the fourth quarter. Let me watch. Narrated. Narrated and coached me through the football game. Like you were talking to a nine-year-old. Like, you got to wait. Just so you understand, this is where we are in the game right now.

Well, you are a little bit under. You're a little bit under the weather. You had a- Not under the weather. I'm hung over. I will say, it's not the same thing. I've had four days of just drinking. It's a wedding.

That was the best man. Day one was fun. We spent it together on Thursday. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. That was a lot of fun. You know, my friend Mike, who just got married. Yeah.

He really, when he likes someone, he nix names people when he likes them. He started calling you Shishi. Well, you know what? I like Mike a lot. I love Shishi. Good old Irishman. We had a blast on Thursday. We did.

Golf. A lot of, you know, a lot of taking part in golf drinking activities during the round. And then we went to dinner afterwards after. spending a few hours drinking beers after the round? You know what? Here's the best part about for me growing up. I'll tell you every single moment in my weekend. It was, there was a lot of beverages and a lot of good times had.

But I'm 40 now. It's funny, you just, we golfed and we fished and we drink beers. That's it. That's pretty tame. My 23-year-old self would have said, let's do some other things. What else would you have done at 20? I mean, I've gotten into trouble? No.

I've never been in trouble. Right. I mean, it would have been a lot of golfing, a lot of drinking, and a lot of good times and laughs. A lot of broads probably worked into the weekend somewhere along the war. Who knows? Maybe. Certainly from my standpoint, there would have been an attempt. They have these places that people dance and stuff.

Yeah. Although, as you know, this... Kind of like a ballet. It's not really a ballet. It's cultural. But this is... doesn't have a lot of those good places. We weren't looking for it.

We weren't looking for it. We weren't looking for it. He wasn't interested in that at all. He used to take frets. Yeah, we watched the Baltimore Tampa game. Tampa game. Okay, let's get in the game. No, I tried to watch some games yesterday.

The wedding was, it's a weird time for, I love my buddy, Mike, and it was an awesome wedding. What time did the wedding start? Five. Okay. Five o'clock on a Sunday is not a normal time for wedding. No. But amazingly, when I knew I was going to do the podcast with you or planned on

being in here with you. And when I heard the wedding was at 5 on Sunday, I thought, oh, this would be easy. I'll watch the game. It's just the game wasn't on at 1 o'clock like normally. That's right.

It was a 425. I literally watched a game on condensed film. I didn't even know who won until you called me this morning. Right. I woke you up this morning with my call. Yeah.

I didn't think you were going to make it into the studio after hearing your voice. The more times than not, I've heard from you. I didn't think you were going to be here, do it, make it. on time what i i am every time and you were in annapolis and it was a nearly a two-hour drive from annapolis here to the studio i'm not sure what was going on you said there were hazards involved

and a lot of wrong turns well with the group of people that you didn't know who gave you a ride here yeah and it was an uber no so how did you get a ride did you really there were there were friends from the wedding oh okay going back to town but you didn't know them until yeah i mean they were i knew who they were happy halloween by the way have you Halloween. What are you going to be? Taylor Hineke. I'm going to try to be a golfer in about an hour and a half. How about the last drive? How about the last? That's a crazy game. Crazy game. It's hard because you don't get the real sense in the condensed film of any of the motion in the game. That's what I was trying to narrate. Okay. See, that's what that's what I was trying to coach. Because before you sat down to watch

the fourth quarter, which is all you had time to do on condensed on the condensed replay, I wanted to give you kind of an idea of what had happened in the first three quarters. So that, because all you saw was a score of seven to six. And I punched it up right before Indianapolis was ready on that first and goal situation when they were down seven to six at the beginning of the fourth quarter. And it was explained to me, and I think this is fair to anybody who watched the game. They weren't very good. And we weren't very good.

That's right. But they made some big plays. They made some big plays. But they just couldn't finish and they turned a ball over in the red zone twice. There's our game take. You ready to go play? some golf. Yeah. And then all the sudden, Heineke turns into magic in the pocket. He was really good in the fourth quarter. He was really good outside the pocket. Yeah, I mean, he was just really good

with moving around with ball in his hands. Right. Do you want to start with the Terry throw? Let's start with that. And then I'm going to get to my game take, and then you can listen to the part that you don't know about. And then you can comment on the last drive. But tell me about what you thought thought about the Terry McClorn, a 33-yard catch that got him down to the one-yard line and set up the go-ahead touchdown. Well, it's not a double move as it was... Robert Smith, I think, was the analyst.

It was not a double move. It was off-skinned. Who is Robert Smith? Remember he was a running back? He's not very good. It wasn't very good. I think it was Robert Smith. I could be wrong.

It may not have been Robert Smith. Yeah. I don't know who was calling me. It's Hineke trying to make a play in the pocket, and he does. And I think it goes, back to some of the other plays that you saw making the pocket, including the flick to the back, and the couple of the, the one where he steps up, steps back, makes him.

He just all of a sudden had a better feel. I mean, you could see all of a sudden he was just, he was in the zone a little bit. He had a great feel for where he was and for everyone around him and to be able to keep his eyes down the field. He saw, you can see, he sees it the whole time. He's underthrows it. And his guy goes, makes a big time play. There's a ton of balls you see.

I'd much rather have a ball under. thrown though. You know what's worse on that one? If he airmails it out of the back of the end zone, you're like, oh my God, he missed him. It's 101. And Gilmore's beat, and it's not because he's beat because Terry, it's not an amazing route. It's off script.

Terry hooks up. They don't have a chance. He does a really good job. When quarterback rolls to you and you're shorter, you turn and you go deeper. If you're deeper, you turn, you come shorter. I mean, it's just a great off-script play by Terry. And they're on the same page there.

and I don't have a problem with the throw. It's not perfect, but Heineke doesn't have this canon. It's never been discussed that he has an incredibly strong arm or he's incredibly accurate. He can make some big time throws, but that's a Heineckee play, and his guy went up and made a catch for him.

I think it's really simple. I don't think there's anything more to it. He underthrew it a little bit. If it was an incompletion, he would say, and then it would go back and say, God, I wish I had put two more yards there on that ball. Well, if it was intercepted, what would have he? Well, yeah, I mean, there's a 50-50 chance, right.

It's not 50-50 for the interception, though, because Gilmore's turning and running. Okay. He's just trying to catch up to Terry. Gilmore never sees the ball. So what's the 50? What's the percentage of Terry catches it incomplete or interception? What's the pie chart there? First of all, it's Terry McLaurin.

I know. So that increases your third percent. Yes. Step on Gilmore is not He's not tracking a receiver in a normal route progression So it's not There's not

He's really at that point Give me the pie chart possibilities On that last throw I think the interception is really low 3 or 4% I think the interception Oh come on it's not three or 4% Gilmore's not going to catch that ball

What do you mean he had to say They fought for the ball together It was all he could have ripped it out of Terry's hands too Okay let's say 60 Terry 20 20 60 Terry Incomplete 20

Interception 20 I think 60% Terry McLaren gets that ball I got no problem Like Okay here This will be really easy You showed me the play

For the first time today You could have showed the play And paused it with the ball in the air And given me this question I could have done that And that would have been a legitimate Like

tell me what happens here what are your percentages. But I still would have been, I guarantee I'd lean more towards Terry McLorn. If that's Cam Sims, I couldn't have done that because you already knew who won the game at that point. Yeah, but I don't know that they didn't have a big play the next play. You really know that I didn't see anything. But if I had paused it and asked you that question at that point, given that you knew what the final score was, you would have probably said 95% Terry catches it or 100%. So you got 60, 2020. I would say it was 45, Terry catches it. No, 50 Terry catches it, 25,

incomplete 25, Gilmore picks it off. Let me also just say, because it sounds like I'm leading towards what many of you think it was, which it was an ill-advised throw, a poor throw, a late throw, a bad throw, and a lucky result. Yeah, none of those things. Let me, you don't know what I was going to say. Let me tell you what I was going to say. What are you going to say? I loved that he took a shot at Terry McLaurin in that spot.

Loved it. First of all, there were 34 seconds left. Clock was running. They were at the 34-yard line, 40 seconds to go at the 34-yard line. They need a touchdown. You know, that's going to be harder, by the way, as the field gets more condensed. You've got Terry McLaren one-on-one. Even if it is off-schedule, even if it is guilt,

Look, he gave Terry a chance last week on that third and nine against Alexander. Like, they're throwing the last two weeks against two good cover corners. I absolutely loved it. I'm going to change my opinion on the percentages here because I just did what we said to do. Yeah. And I just freeze-framed it. This is 50-50 that Gilmore gets this ball. Okay, thank you.

No, I mean, look. Well, I went 25% in completion because Gilmore might rip it out of his hands in a might fall to the ground. True. Yeah. But if you look at this ball in the air, Gilmore sees it. This, he's not happy with himself today. He's tracking it.

Oh, yeah. No, he, Terry just high pointed it from him. But I still will give you 50% right now that Terry McLaren comes down with that, Paul. Yeah. It's Terry McLaren. That's what I said, 50. I gave Gilmore less than 50. I gave incompletion as much as I gave Gilmore.

Now the lowest percentage. One of them is getting this ball. Well, but he could wrestle it out of the hands and it could fall to the ground. That happens all the time. Could. Yeah. I think one of them is catching this ball. 50.

So the one of the top 10 receivers and the top 10 receivers and one of the top 10 corners. 50, Terry, 30, Gilmore, 20 in completion. That's my final answer. I'll agree with that. And the number one answer is? I got you. Terry. Terry McCorren catches it.

So this isn't ill-advised. And he's still sitting in the pocket because he's got all day. They protected him pretty well in this situation. He's dropping deeper in the pocket, and he just doesn't have the arm strength. This looks like all he's got. Like I did watch, like here's a, it just almost remind me of, I did watch a little football yesterday. And Tua, Tung of Iiloa threw a ball to Tareke Hill where Hill was hit in the back. Tua runs like three crow hops to let this ball go.

Yeah. And it was like, oh, he had to throw it 40 yards. Well, he can throw it more than four years. I know, but it's like, yeah. I don't think Heineke can throw it 60 plus yards. No, I don't think he can either. I'd be interested what he could just sit and throw it. So I just don't, I think this is a great, Terry's open.

Yeah. When the ball leaves his hand, Terry's wide the fuck open. Mm-hmm. So it's a great throw. He just missed the throw. My overarching, my overarching theme on that play is that it was totally worth the shot. totally we're just watching how weird is it that yeah the plate just came on and the two a play just came on right there yeah um uh so i you know i tweeted out after that final touchdown

that taylor heinecke really made magic on those final two drives after what we had seen for the first three plus quarters and the pick and there was a lot of you know and in there week at half time, I think 95% of you out there that watch the game wanted Sam Howell in the second half. After the interception yesterday, probably 75% of you wanted Sam Howell to come into the game. And there is something about Taylor Heineke that I think everybody has understood and liked. Like, you know, this isn't one of these black and white conversations. Like I can't stand the conversation that starts with, no, no, no, you're wrong. He is really good. No, no, no, no. He sucks. You don't know what you're talking about. No. He is what he is. He's flawed. He's got limitations, which is why he was out of the league on a couch studying for, you know, math finals when Scott Turner called him up when they needed a quarterback for the Carolina game in 2020. He is the reason that if Washington had said, you know, we don't want you back, there may have been a couple of teams that would have been interested in signing him as a backup is.

because he is limited and he's got flaws, but he's also got something that not everybody has. He's got Moxie. He is a gamer. And this dude does not feel pressure. And he has coolly what I've mentioned before, because this is, you know, falling back on basketball analogies. And that is a real shooter in hoops, misses seven in a row wide open. And the next one is always a going in. A corner gets beat five times in a row. He's picking off the next ball. This dude just threw an interception. It never, ever phased him. He played the best he had played all day over those final two drives. I think you're a little bit wrong. He does feel pressure, but he actually needs it. Okay. Well, I think of this, and I thought of this while I was watching this game,

because you see him just flat. So my boy is five. It was four last year. He wrestled. and he'll just go out. He loves it, but he'll just go out on the mat. And if you don't do anything or he doesn't start losing, he just is out there just doing things. So I started this at the beginning of the year, after I watched him kind of flat, I slap him on the back pretty hard before he goes out.

It pisses him off. I mean, he hates it. Yeah. But then he's mad. Yeah. And it's like you've got to have that. Heinekees almost, in a lot of ways, in a lot of the games that you've watched,

he can be bad and then in a big moment he's great yeah he he's so would you recommend next week they intentionally have him throw an interception or two to start the game to get it out of the way no i think you just slap him on the back real hard right after one so you know how bad that this is the worst too when you get a hand in the back like low back slap yeah when you're little sweaty ah right this the mof i no but here's the other thing about heinkeke whatever you think he is right now yeah he's a shit load better than whatever anybody thought he was two years ago. Well, of course.

I mean, he wasn't in the league two years ago. I understand that, but whatever you would have expected, he has exceeded any expectation that anybody in the world had of him. I am. But I think that's where he's at. I think this game is him. Two of my three boys, who are big sports fans,

they argue all the time about Taylor Heineke. My youngest son loves him. My middle son, even after he threw the ball to Terry McLauron goes, he stinks. He just sucks. How did that happen? He just sucks. And I'm like, no, no. Like, you can say there are 35 to 40 quarterbacks I'd rather have than Taylor Heineke in the league. That's fine. But he's also a winner. He's a winner. Like he has, I know it's an old-fashioned term, you know, moxie. He's got heart, all the cliches. Look, they, they,

He was 11 of 17 for 1119 yards before the final two drives. Like last week, he wasn't very good for a big portion of the game. He went 12 for 14 for a buck 60 on those final two drives. And he scrambled his way to 15 yards, if you count the sneak, 15 rushing yards, a couple of big scrambles, drives that produced a field goal, a touchdown, and a win. Going into that, what did I tell you when I propped up, when I put it on in front of you, I said, At this particular moment, when they went up 16 to 7 after the pick and the touchdown by Heinz,

at 15 to 7, you said if they make the extra point, the game's over. In the moment yesterday, when you, I was like, you better miss the extra point or the game is over. There's no chance they can score twice. Right. But he's, he, look, here's the other thing. Two big time players at the end, Heineke and then McClorn, who is a, bona fide star. The other guy is a bona fide gamer. Yeah. Okay. I mean, what? Yeah, I I want to tell you real quickly, because you're, you're stumbling to say something. I don't think

you really had a thought there. I did. I lost it. Okay, so the play of the game is not the throw to Terry McClorn. That's a great play, but you would have had another chance had it been incomplete or if he decided to throw somewhere else. The play of the game is that the throw. The play of the game is, the fourth down at the beginning of that final drive. It's fourth and a long one after McKissick stumbles on third and two. It's a minute 35 left the clock's running

and he drops back in the pocket collapses. He tries to step up. He tries to step up. They have a stunt on and looping in and all of a sudden fills the A gap and he's like, oh no, no, no, no, no. And he steps back. And he backs up. Carson Wentz has done at that point in the game's over. I regain my thought, which actually

goes well to this. Okay, go ahead. Two results in this game on two plays. That fourth and six is a sack. This the fourth and six is with Carson Wentz is... It was fourth and two. The run was that's probably a sack. Yeah. Well they he forced to... Hold on, hold on, hold on. I want to make sure everybody's listening and clear. The play that I'm talking about is they're down 16 to 10. The play of the game. It's fourth and a long one almost two.

And he ends up throwing it after getting ducking out of there to Samuel. He didn't run. Yeah, that that play, the play of the game. Yes. That's a sack. Of course. With Wentz. This play with Terry McLorn is a hundred mile an hour bounce pass to two yards at McKissick with Carson Wentz. Wentz doesn't get his eyes up to see the down the field stuff or hasn't this year.

I don't think Wentz extends the play for that long in the pocket. He just wets the bed and throws the check down like a 100 mile an hour checkdown. Well, the game would have been over anyway if Wentz was in there because they would. wouldn't have made the fourth and long won. Yeah, but the game was over, like the game was over three times with you. And it never was over. So we don't really know if the game would have been over or not. As he was watching.

Three times. As he was watching it, as he was watching. And I said, I thought the game was over. And you just said, yeah, but I know it's not over because you're letting me continue to watch this. And I go, yeah, but you're watching it for the first time. Just act like you don't know what happened. No, but you need to listen to me. The game should have been over.

And I'm right. That play where he. I think the most impressive part of that play is there are quarterbacks that are really good at extending the play. And by the way, some of them are elite quarterbacks. I'm not, if you put it, trust me, I'm not about to say that he's Patrick Mahomes or he's Josh Allen or he's Justin Herbert or he's Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson in his prime. No. But what he did is what those guys do when they're flushed and they extend. They don't panic.

Like there was, there are a lot of quarterbacks there that would have. run the football to try to make that yard and they would have scrambled for it. And he would not have made it had he tried to run it. And his eyes never left downfield. And he threw the ball very calmly without panic. I think this is what he does best, Cooley. Number one is, there are only two things he does well. He plays with great poise, great poise with the game on the line. And number two, he's a high level extender of plays with his feet and his feel. You know, he's got great poise with He's got great instincts. That play was the play of the game because clearly if they get stopped,

I know they had three timeouts left, but it would have been a short field goal for 19 to 10 game over. That was the play of the game. Washington's a three and five football team if he doesn't make that play on fourth down. And even after he made it, they still had to go another 65 yards or 70 yards. Really, I, so many people. people were like, you're an idiot for tweeting out that he was magic on the final two drives. I had, I had delusional, dumb, you're an idiot. Look, I haven't all the sudden fallen in love with him as the answer long term. That's not going to happen. Honestly, I'm not even open-minded to

that. I'm pretty sure I know that you can't win a Super Bowl, Taylor Heineke, starts 17 games for you. You can't be a legitimate contender. it is fun to watch. And by the way, yesterday was not the first time. He did it last week on that third and nine throw to McLaurin to ice the game. He did it last year against Atlanta at the end of the game. He's come up at Tampa when they were up three and he needed to make some plays on that final drive. Now, he has shit the bed a few times from start to finish.

But he's certainly not going to back off with like any sort of nervousness or fear. I think this is really, really easy. We're going to play golf today. Yeah. You can't shoot a 72. Right. You just can't. Right.

I promise you won't. You don't have it in you. Right. It's true. Might shoot a 79. I don't think that's in me. I think 80 or 81 is in me on where we're playing. You know what you're in you?

Okay. 82 is in me. What? You can par a birdie 17 and 18, especially if the game's on the line. I think that happened recently. I didn't party. And that's good enough if you did that all day, you just don't have a 72 in you that's a great analogy and so many people don't get the analogy and so many

that are listening get it think about when you play golf and you're playing like in a match or for money just think like if you're like a mid-handicapper like me i'm like a 13 you know 1213 somewhere around there coolie's a single digit and good god does he crush the ball you we're crushing it the other day um but for me when i'm playing in a you know in a match where, you know, it's like a net score wins the hole. All I got to do is win a couple of big holes with some pars. You know, and against somebody like you, sometimes they're par net birdies. In big spots. I don't have to shoot 77 to beat you. I don't have to shoot 79. I don't know you have to shoot 83 to win money off you. It's a great analogy. That's what Taylor Heineke is that. But you're

actually a little bit of a gamer. Sometimes I can be. Sometimes. Sometimes I can be. Sometimes. You can make a big shot. Not like him. Power hole. He really has some of that in. You know, so what you tweeted, Heineke was magic. So I didn't watch the whole game, obviously. I didn't see any of the first three quarters.

We started with the Colts scoring. To make it. To make it 16 to 7. Well, no, I showed you the pick. I showed you the pick. I started with 9 to 7 when they got the stop. The pick was after. Oh, yeah.

You started with the field goal. Started with the third goal. The pick was really bad. The ball gets tipped on his hand. of his hand on the pick. Yeah. I don't really know where he's going with it, and I don't like the route distribution,

which I pointed out to you. I don't think there's an open receiver. Right. He's letting one go. Maybe he doesn't get picked. But all I watched is the fourth quarter. And all I saw was a guy manipulate the pocket, step up, make big throws.

He hit, what, Cam Sam's on a deep end. He hit Terry McLauron on a deep end. He had a couple nice little checkdown plays to Antonio Gibson, where Gibson turns it up to sideline. There was nothing that wasn't. How about the flick? The flick coming out. Yeah, the movement around.

There was nothing that wasn't. So I guess what I'm saying is because I didn't sit there and watch a guy play poorly for three quarters, I had no biased into how he was playing. He was really good. He was really good. He's really good in a net score situation, not a gross score situation. But like you said, all I got to do is hit this shot. Like, all you really got to do in a lot of these, especially with like Indy, just get the ball under Gibson's hands.

Just distribute the ball. I love Gibson. Get the ball to Terry McLaurin. Get the ball out of your hands. They're four and four. They've won three games in a row. And we can sit here and we all understand. They beat Chicago and they scored six points basically against Chicago.

They got the muffed punt. They were playing a Green Bay team that's super limited and they won by two points. And yesterday they were down nine with less than 10 to go and they won the game. By the way, this is crazy to me. Do you know yesterday's comeback win is the first time since the Monday Night Miracle in 2005 that this team has come from two scores down in the final five minutes of a game to win? It's crazy to me. Like, you know what?

That speaks to more than anything else. You've got to have a quarterback. When you have great quarterbacks, those things, it's not like they happen all the time, but they happen more than once every 18 years, right? Or 17 years. Yeah. And you got to have a quarterback. Here's the other thing with Inaqui.

He's situationally, he's really good. He knew he had to throw the ball down the field of Terry. I mean, you've seen, and both of us love Kirk. And I think Kirk's changed a lot and developed a lot from his early days where he trusted the process quite a bit. And the problem is, is the process isn't the checkdown on forverts when you need like 70 yards in a touchdown in one minute. Heinecke understands, I think in the moment that he throws the ball,

the Terry especially, this is about the only throw. I can't afford to check it over the middle. Burner last time out at the 40-yard line when we need a touchdown. And we need seven. I'll push the ball down the field here. I got to take a shot. And I love that in a quarterback. Just know where you're at.

know where you're at in the game. These football guys, so many of these, so many guys now, too, positionally, and it's like, they just do the thing they're supposed to do. Do your job. I hate that. He knows, do your job isn't do, like, that doesn't get it done for me. Be great is your job. Be great.

Be great on any play. And I think He can't at least understands that. And he knows he's not going to shoot a 72, so he knows he's got to take his shot when he gets a shot. He's got big balls. That's what he's got more than anything else. The dude is fearless. Well, this is like... That's because...

Hey, I understand what you're saying. We got a couple of calls in the middle and we had to redo this part. So, yes, it's the second time I've talked about his balls. No. Fourth. Third. Third. You know what?

He's a likable dude. Let me just net out real quickly. Four and four. Right now, they hold down a tie for the seventh spot. in the NFC playoff picture. We're not even halfway done with the season. There's a lot of football left, and it was just Chicago, Green Bay, and Indy.

Indy against the third string quarterback from two weeks ago, and they had seven points with 11 minutes to go in the game. Understood. All of that. I don't think they're a good team. I don't think they're really headed towards anything, but let me just mention real quickly before I get to my game take and Cooley chimes in.

I've watched a lot of Minnesota this year. They're totally beatable. They're not good on defense. Now Zadaria Smith is good. but you can move the football in them. I think it'll be the defense that's the easiest he has faced, Heineke, and what will be his third start. All right, we'll get to my Game Take.

Cooley will chime in right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Pay attention. Here's Kevin's Game Take. All right, my game take is brought to you by my good friends at MyBooky. Go to mybooky.com, mybooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. They'll match your first deposit. Halfway all the way up to a thousand bucks.

My bookie's got Minnesota right now as a three-point favorite Sunday in Washington. It's a little bit short. I think the odds makers understand Washington defensively is pretty good, and Minnesota defensively isn't very good. I think Washington's going to have more offensive success, potentially Sunday against Minnesota than they did yesterday or even last week. Although last week, obviously, they dominated time of possession. Green Bay couldn't stay on the field.

Green Bay, by the way, six of 12 on third down against the bills last night. They didn't win. It wasn't close, but they couldn't make a third down against Washington's defense. All right, Cooley, let me get through my game take here. The things that I liked list, I'm going to start with Heineke's mobility and Moxie. Without it, I mean, he wouldn't be anywhere near an NFL Ross. He just wouldn't be. I thought that there were quicker decisions yesterday.

You haven't seen some of the early portions of the game. They ran some of those, you know, three and four verts to clear it out for Gibson to come out of the backfield to catch what, for all intents and purposes, was like a run extension throw or a design checkdown. And Gibson in space is outstanding. I'll get to him in a moment. But his ability to create off schedule, you know, the play of the game. game, the fourth and long one, the second and six on that drive where he has an easy, you know, a creation of time and then he runs for seven yards to move the sticks. And obviously to create more time before the throw to Terry, that's what he does really well. I mean, that for me

makes the final two drives, while nothing resembling the nine drives or eight drives that went before it, it's hard to give him anything but a B for the game because of what he did on those final two drives. You know, there were a couple of plays early that he had good throws. I think he was quicker in his decision-making than he was last week. I also think that Scott Turner gets some credit for that. Sorry, I know most of you don't want to hear that, but I think they understood that it would be harder to run against that interior Buckner, in particular of the Colts defense and with Shaq Leonard back. and they tried to get Gibson out, you know, a little bit on the, the fringes and out in space, and I thought they were creative with Samuel.

But I thought overall, Heineke's Mobility and Moxie, number one on the list of things that I liked. Terry McLaren was just flat out outstanding as he has been all year. You know, when we signed him, when Washington signed Terry McLorn to the contract extension, there was so much conversation coolly about what is he, where does he rank the whole thing. I don't know. I think there's still 10, you know, 8 to 10 guys in this era of great wide receivers that are probably better than Terry. But he's one of the guys in the conversation of the top, you know, 15 receivers in the game. Let's put it really easy.

He's an X anywhere. He's an X. Anywhere in the league. Which is your starting guy. But I'll tell you what, when you line them up in the slot, when you line them up in the backfield, he can make place. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying he's a top. he's a one.

Someone's in a, he is a one. The biggest play offensively for this team prior to the final drive was that 42-yard catch and run by McLaren. He's so good after the catch. Antonio Gibson is on the things that I liked list. He got the start yesterday, if you really want to call it a start. But they ran the ball with him a little bit, and then they threw it to him out of the backfield. Bottom line is what I've been calling for, they decided to do yesterday. in the game had seven catches and had seven rushes, 14 touches.

Brian Robinson, Jr., eight carries and no catches. It was 22 snaps to 15, and McKissick played 22 snaps as well. I think Gibson is one of the best players on the team. The field goal drive at the end when he took the pass out in the flat and accelerated down the sideline. Now his foot barely touched out of bounds. He is just flat out one of the most explosive players that they've had in a long time, maybe the most explosive player,

until we see Dotson in the lineup. I love Gibson. I loved what they did with Samuel. This is the second straight game. Samuel's gotten a bunch of touches, lined up in the backfield, had a fly sweep, had a pit option pitch from Taylor,

rushed it four times for 29 yards, had three catches for 50. Curtis Samuel was big in the game. I think Washington's front four, even though Indy had some chunk plays. We'll get to that on the list of things that I didn't like. I just think John Allen and Duran Payne had been unbelievable. And I think Indy knew it. Jonathan Taylor did get some runs. One of them he fumbled on on a big run into the red zone. But Washington's front four is outstanding. The turnover margin, the two turnovers they got, even though I wouldn't really say Derek Ford stuck his hand in there on the Taylor run.

But Ealinger started to fumble that ball before he ever even got hit. But still, two takeaways, one giveaway, winning the turnover margin was huge because that was six points for Indy without those two turnovers, minimum, maybe more. The red zone stop was massive. Tressway was great again.

He had a 65-yarder that totally flipped the field. And Cooley, you watch this part, because I made you watch this part of the game. The Colts, I thought, with a 16 to 7 lead and, you know, 11 minutes to go, 10 minutes to go, I don't think that they thought Washington could beat them, and I thought they got very conservative, especially on their offensive drive. When they challenged the Ealinger run, and it was short by about six inches, maybe less, I think they should have gone for it.

I think they should have snuck them. It's 99% from six inches on a sneak. they would have kept the ball. Maybe they wouldn't have run out the clock, but they would have made Washington burn all their timeouts. The two runs to John Taylor on that drive, I think that Reich thought there was no chance that Heineke could beat them.

Yeah, I would agree with you. I don't hate the two runs because you're a team that runs the ball. Frank Reich knows that to run the ball, and they're throwing the ball on third down. If you really think about that third down run from Ellinger, Ellinger? Ellinger, I think is the proper pronunciation. You know, it's funny is you want your quarterback to not take a hit,

except when it's third and five in the game's on the line. He falls. He takes a die. Yeah, he went for it. No, no. He doesn't dive to get the first down. He's falling to protect himself. You just...

He didn't join to a slide two yards before. At that point, you take the John L.A. helicopter hit from the Super Bowl. I mean, you just go. Yeah. But the other point is, in the last five to ten years, And I think it started with like Belichick or teams playing against Tom Brady and then McVeigh does it.

And a lot of people do that fourth and one, you win the game right there. You don't play to not lose the game. You win the game right there. You go for it and fourth and inches. Quarterback sneak, man. Inches, yes. A full yard, no. I'm with you.

Yeah. But that was probably less than six inches. I think it also depends on the team you're playing. If you're playing Patrick Mahomes, fourth and two, you probably go for it. you don't punt it and give it back to my homes and say Washington had scored 10 points at that point Yeah no I understand And by the way they punted it down back to the 11 yard line

You know they made him go 89 yards Yeah And so it was still advantage them Washington needing a touchdown But they I just think the inches is the difference Fourth and one I'm punting Fourth and six inches or less

I'm probably going to go forward Yeah, Heineke on the other side In Washington's offense Fourth and one I'm punting but inches in what it was, I'm going for it. Well, Heineke, fourth, and inches in the same position I would have gone for it. No, I'm saying if you're playing against Washington, and it's Heineke. Yeah, maybe I'll think twice now in the future after he had that comeback.

All right, let me get to the list of things I didn't like. I thought the defense gave up too many chunk plays. You know, this was an issue at various points early in the season. They gave up a 47-yard throw from Ealinger to Pierce. They gave up a 38-yard throw to Campbell, a 22-yarder to Heinz. Jonathan Taylor had a 27-yard run. Paris Campbell had a 28-yard fly sweep. It's a lot of big plays.

The truth of the matter is, if, you know, let's just say ultimately, Washington doesn't prevail on that final drive, the difference in the game would have been the big plays allowed because there just weren't many big plays until you got to the second half. And when they turned Ealinger loose, he actually made some good deep throats. He also drew the PI before they got the touchdown from Heinz, the Wild Goose PI. That's why I think on that last drive, they should have been more aggressive to try to go win the game on offense because they actually had been playing well. I'm going to put pass protection again.

I think this is now, they played eight games. It's probably eight weeks that the pass protection hasn't been very good. I don't know where it'll rank this week. You know, Heineke was under pressure a lot. You know, was it as bad as we saw against Dallas or Philadelphia? No, they haven't played defenses as good as those two defenses in the last two weeks. But it's still not good enough. Third down offensively, two for 12.

Yeah, they were two for three on fourth down. That's awesome. Two for 12 on third down is one of the reasons they didn't have the play differential that they had last week or the time of possession advantage that they had last week. And one of them's a one-yard run to Robinson. He gets stuffed. Well, he got it, but... Oh, no, but he also got stuffed on another... Right, but on another...

I mean, a third and one should be... What's your third and one rate, Kev? 90%. It's got to be 95%. It's not that high, but third and one? It should be over 80. It should be over 70. Oh, it's well over 70, third and one. I think, I don't know. I don't think so.

Lastly, on the list of things I didn't like, I just did not like the end of the first half, Coolly. They were, and you didn't see it yet, but Washington took over with the ball in a 7-3 game from their own 22-yard line with two and a half minutes to go. Netting it out, there just wasn't enough urgency. There just wasn't enough urgency to the drive. When they finally made a first down to the 33-yard line on a Robinson two-yard run on third and one, they still didn't call timeout. The clock rolled. They then started to go no huddle. They had three

timeouts left. And ultimately, you know, on... There's 50 seconds left after the run before they snap the ball. They ran four plays in two minutes. This isn't a debate. I know. That's why I'm pointing it out. The second, you get that first down signal, boom. Time out. Minutes 12 left.

Yeah. I just didn't like the end of the first half. And Ron said afterwards, he said that, you know, they got to be careful in that situation. They don't want to give the ball back. I understand that. Well, Pinekey really just threw a pick. I mean, it's dropped. Yeah.

Right. So I get it. But you. With 30 seconds. left, and he dropped a easy pick. You just, when you pick up that first down, you got to pick up the pace. You got to use a timeout. You got to then think, we're at the 33-yard line.

There should be a minute 12 left. We got a chance to go down the field. By the way, a lot of the off-schedule stuff for him happens in these two-minute drills. Other observations from the game. I mean, oh, my God, though. I'm watching this right now. Yeah. The third and one off-script.

Yeah. That's a nightmare. I know. That's it. That's points for Indy right there. I mean, really, if you think about this third and one, Moore just drops it. Yeah, he did.

Heineke's trying to make a play, trying to throw it to McKissick, and he throws it just dead over his head. Yeah, yeah, that's a terrible throw. But remember, that third and one should have been a play that happened with about a minute to go, and they would have, and they should have run the football. You still, but you still had a timeout left. I know.

Well, still, then run the football. Then run the football. And then you're two completions. We know Philly. We know Indies not touch the ball. All right. I have an obfuss. There are a couple of observations real quickly. Jaman Davis was on the field for every defensive snap. It's because Cole Holcomb was out. I think Davis is getting better. I would agree. Secondly, Jonathan Taylor, you know, hurt his ankle and had that thing taped up.

I don't know if that, you know, was a part of the issue with him, fumbling or whatever. I mean, they gave the ball to him still, you know, a bunch. And then here is something for you. And it has not. nothing to do with the game. I want you to listen to me carefully. You don't need to watch this on video. Are you listening? Do I have your attention? Very carefully I'm listening. Okay, at the end of the first half, after Washington misses on that third and one, okay, they punted it from their own 42-yard line. There are 20-something seconds left. Indy's plan is to take the ball and knee out the half. That's what they're going to do with Sam Ealinger and three points in not much offense. The punt with

tressway is going to go inside the 20. Best cases they're going to get it at the 25-yard line if they let the ball go. If your plan isn't to go score at the end of the half, why do you field the punt? You should never, ever have your punt returner back there calling for a fair catch and fielding the punt at, by the way, he fielded it at the 14-yard line when your plan is to take a knee on the next play. There's only a bad thing can happen. If he muffs, that punt, you give up points before the half. This is something I've mentioned, and maybe you and I had this conversation a while back, I don't know why coaches who are planning to take a knee after a punt at the end of the first half put a punt returner back there, or have the instruct

the punt returner to fair catch it. That ball, even if it lands at the one, you just sneak it forward and run the clock out. That was their plan. They had no intention on trying to score. So anyway. It's actually a great point. You do one of two things. You try to return the punt with a punt return on. And in that moment, if you're doing that, you can say to your turner, if the ball isn't, if it's not defined that you have some space, just get away from it.

The problem with that is, it really shouldn't be that hard. And it isn't for a lot of guys. For some guys, having that extra decision is too much. So if you don't have a punt returner that you can do that. you just rush 11 and try to block the punt. Well, 15 yards then first down, now you're giving up a field goal if you rough the punter. So you've got to be careful on that. With the field position, it was at midfield.

Okay, let me just assure you of this. I don't think I've ever been a part of a team that was concerned about a roughing penalty when you try to block a kick. You're just trying to block the kick. You know how many guys won't nearly block kicks and it goes right for their own? Why aren't they taught to cross their arms when they go in to block the punt? When I was a kid playing tackle football, when you went in to block a kid, kick, you cross your arms. I never see anybody do that in the NFL. Isn't it amazing how bad guys are when they get to the punter?

It's amazing. How many times they miss. I'm here and now what do I do? Yeah. It is practiced. You do practice it. Not enough. Are you taught to cross your arms so not to create a middle where the ball can go through your arms?

Why? It's a good question. I've never thought of it that way. But no, you're taught to take it off his foot. You're not going to dive. But yeah, I mean, I'm doing it right now as we speak. It could go through. Right.

If you do that. I will say this, though. What? It would look funny if some dude running out there with his arms. I'm just telling you, I'm just telling you CYO football, you know, eighth and ninth grade. Okay, let me just run you through this scenario. It's about six years from now. Some dude leaves Maryland

Gets in the league Becomes a great special team's player We're sitting here watching the game He crosses his arms You think you got it from the podcast? And then they say Oh man, how about that block punt? And he says, you know, it's the weirdest thing

I was listening to this guy, Kevin Sheehan. Okay. All right, enough. I also just wanted to mention this. The last, first of all, the extra point was nearly blocked, speaking of block kicks at 1616. Pitman nearly takes it to mid-fills.

on a drop with 22 seconds left. And then no, with 22 seconds left when the Colts got the ball back, Pittman drops that ball. That's a perfect throw from Ealinger. And it's right in his hands at the 45-yard line in stride. He might get to the sideline at the 50 and get the ball out of bounds. And if he gets tackled inbounds, they get a time out with 15 seconds left. He just flat out dropped it.

They got, I don't know what you do there. That's a perfect throw. and A-Linger created some time off schedule. All right. It's a good win for Washington. It really is. I mean, because they've got a season now for a while. All he's got to do is be the safety.

And then he might take it. Pittman might house this thing. I know. I mean, he's got right when that ball hits his hand, he's three steps ahead of Wild Goose. And he's in stride on the run. Yeah. Wild goose ain't catching him. So the safety's got to make a tackle, but there's eight yards of separation.

there. One little, whoop. One little oop-doop. This might be. This might not be. We might not be talking about field goal or out of bounds. Right. All right.

A few more thoughts to finish up the show when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Walker on first down. Moving to his left. And now Walker fires downfield. Looking for DJ Moore. Oh, the end-shank. Makes a diving catch for a Panthers touchdown.

Wow. 62 yards. Carolina has tied the game. An incredible ending to that Carolina Atlanta game. That was in the one o'clock window. You didn't see the ending of that game, Cooley? No. DJ Moore's touchdowns, 65 yards from PJ Walker.

The Panthers were within an extra point away from being tied for first place in the NFC South, except that DJ Moore ripped his helmet off. A guy called for a 15-yard penalty. They missed the extra point. the game went to overtime. Their kicker also missed a 32-yard field goal in overtime, and then Atlanta kicked a field goal and won the game 37 to 34. And because of that now, the Falcons at 4 and 4 are in first place in the NFC South, Tampa, and New Orleans are 3 and 5. A couple of quick

thoughts about the NFL Sunday. Number one, Derek Henry became, I think, just the third player in history to have 200-year-old. yards six times. Adrian Peterson and O.J. Simpson are the other two. He rushed for 219 yards in the game with Malik Willis starting a quarterback. Willis was six for 10 for 55 yards. It just gave the ball to Derek Henry 32 times. I think Derek Henry actually, and I was looking at his career numbers, he is headed to the Hall of Fame. I know that he's still only seven years into his career, but this dude is amassing just outrageous numbers. And by the way, I think he's back into, as he was two years ago,

into a conversation for MVP. Now, it's probably not going to be him. Josh Allen's probably going to end up being the MVP this year. You know, Alan or Mahomes, it's become a quarterback award. But my God, is Derek Henry Good. The other thing that I was going to mention about yesterday's games is that Devante Adams to the Raiders has not worked out at all. I mean, the Raiders, I know you've been a Derek Carr fan, and for whatever reason,

I've never been on Derek Carr. And I'm not saying that he hasn't had his moments. He had a great year last year. Devante Adams now on the season, and they've played seven games, has 38 receptions. So he is, you know, in five touchdowns. It's not been a terrible year necessarily overall, statistically. yesterday in a 24-0 shutout loss to New Orleans. One catch.

So here's a, I've watched a couple of the Raiders games. And you hear this, and you hear this with McDaniels. I think McDaniels is a terrible head coach. He must be. Like, I think he's a terrible head coach. But here's what it's all so hard. This is the toughest offense to understand. The Patriots have always run, and McDaniels, and I think through Brady,

they've always run a version of offense with a language that's different. than 30 other NFL teams. So there's no carryover from West Coast or from a number system. The Patriots do something completely different. It's really, really hard, though, to go and install a brand-new offense with the quarterback and a receiver

who haven't played together and not just have some simple shit. Dante Adams, the offense is tough. And everybody that's played, I've talked to guys that have played in it, and it's like, yeah, it's just, it's its own. It's its own entity. but that is hard in the league because I played what four coordinators yeah and then

Gruden and McVeigh were there essentially they were so Saunders had the number system so that was different than West Coast but all the concepts are I mean it's easy to understand I could go to nine out of ten other teams and pretty much pick up a playbook on Monday and execute the offense by Sunday that's just not what it's like in McDaniel's offense what I've been told. So it makes sense to me. I did have one more thought, because you were talking about DJ Moore. What an unbelievable play. It's OPI on DJ Moore.

He pushes off. You think so? But yeah, he does. They didn't call it. I have no problem. You just looked at it for the first time. Yeah, I just watched it. But I hate this penalty. Dude just caught like a 70-yard bomb to tie the game.

And he's celebrating with fans and with his team. He's not hazing. He's not taunting. It's not It's not tomfoolery. He's hyped. It's not total shenanigans, but you know the rule. You can't take the helmet. I understand the rule.

Change the rule then. Yeah, sure. That's a stupid rule. Okay, you know what's really getting called too much is this taunting thing. They've tried to create a solution to a problem that did not exist. I can't stand the taunting. I saw at least a half dozen taunting calls yesterday that were not taunting. And they are harmful penalties, harmful penalties, 15 yards, sometimes.

after you've gotten a team off on third down. And a defender just, you know, mouths off at the receiver as he's backing away. I mean, enough of the taunting penalties. You know, the funny thing is? Oh, man, we don't want to teach our kids. You're showing the taunting because you're calling the penalty. Yeah, you're actually highlighting it more. You're highlighting the taunting.

And what else is amazing? That's part of the game. Oh, it's a part of the game. Oh, come on. You make a great play on third down to get a stop and you get up. Come on. Oh, no, I don't like the obnoxious taunting. Oh, I don't want him standing over and walking over and the whole thing.

Not that, but the de-line and the tackles are running back like 11 yards downfield. Dude, he just got 11 yards. No, but, I mean, just the back and forth and some of the penalties that have been called where you're like, he can talk a little shit. It's fine. I don't like the crazy, I mean, make a play, get back to the huddle. You know what the worst new call is? And I think it was last year's new rule. The old coming up as a defense.

and going low to make a tackle on an offensive lineman that is leading a runner, and you get called for an illegal defensive block. Yeah, so you want an 185-pound DB to take on a 310-pound lineman? It's outrageous. In the Denver game yesterday, it would change how I ran the ball a little bit. I'd pull guards around the edge every time. That's what a lot of teams are doing. I'd go with that toss where your tackle, tight and blocked sound, tackle pulls, and it's like, okay.

Your boy McCaffrey, threw one, caught one, ran one. I'm just going to mention this real quickly, and we're going to wrap it up because we are actually running late for our planned golf outing. We'll be fine. We're going to be fine. I think that the Eagles are really good, and I think the Cowboys are really good. I do. I think the 49ers healthy are the best team in the NFC. And when we get to the postseason that if they are healthy, that they're the team that will

advance to the Super Bowl. We're at that midway point in the season. We're approaching it. They're just, look, they made it last year, and now they have Christian McCaffrey, you know, and a healthy, they're getting healthier. You know, Bosa looked awesome yesterday. Fred Warner's so good on defense. I just think that in the NFC, it's much more wide open. I think we're destined to see Kansas City in Buffalo in the AFC championship game, unless they're matched up in a divisional round game and then maybe it's Cincinnati, you know, as long as Jamar Chase is back and healthy, because he's going to miss the next several games. It feels like old school indie New England. What, the Kansas City Buffalo? They're better. Yeah, they're better than everybody else.

I think Philly's really good. Don't get me wrong. And, you know, they've got a chance here. They got a chance to make a big run. They have the Texans this Thursday night. Then they play Washington at home on a Monday night, which is a quasi-buy leading into that game. But Washington had the benefit remember of playing Philadelphia off a Monday night game. And then they've got the Colts, the Packers, the Titans at home, the Giants, the Bears. They got a game late in the season at Dallas. Philadelphia may take an undefeated record into a latter portion of the season situation. They're good, but I think the 49ers actually fully healthy are the team out of the NFC that I would bet on right now.

I can't take anybody else. The NFC South is terrible. bucks who they're not good right now. Amazingly, the Seahogs are in first place with Gino Smith. Yeah. How about that? Kenneth Walker. I don't know who's sneaky?

Who? The Giants. They lost to Seattle. I understand that, but the Giants are sneaky good. They're 6 and 2. Did that just occur to you? No, but they were 6 and 1 before yesterday. I understand that, but at 6 and 1, okay, here's an easy one.

They barely meet Jacksonville a week ago. You don't watch the Giants and say, wow, this is a good football team. But they are winning. Want me to give you a sneaky team to end the show? A sneaky team? The New Orleans Saints. Okay. They, with Andy Dalton, they shut out the Vegas Raiders yesterday.

They were in the smell test, by the way, catching the point of that. The Saints are three and five. That division is terrible. They're sneaky because they're sneaky good and they're pretty damn good on defense. They're better with Dalton than they are with Winston. I believe that now. I was wrong about Winston, whatever. Maybe next year I'll predict Winston to have a breakout year again for the fifth year in a row.

And the Saints are, I think we'll end up winning that division. Okay, Cooley just got up and left the studio. I think that he needs to use the restroom before we leave. We're done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow with Tommy.