The Kevin Sheehan Show - Heinicke's Extension

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

Kevin had Cooley and Ben Standig on the show to talk about the contract extension Washington gave to Taylor Heinicke earlier today. What does it mean? What doesn't it mean? What's next? Cooley and Kevin also talked about Russell Wilson saying he wants to be "involved" in personnel decisions in Seattle.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. In trouble again. He's able to escape. Keeps the play.

A lot. He runs for the first down. Dives with the pile on. Is he in? Is he in? Yes. Touchdown. What a play.

What a play. What a play. Wow. Not going to be a long podcast today. Ben Standing is with me right now. Cooley's going to be a part of the show today, and we're going to focus on one thing, and I may add another thing or two at the end of the show. But since the radio show ended about three hours ago, Taylor Heineke was signed by your Washington football team to, according to Ian Rappaport,

a two-year contract extension worth $8.75 million. There are some incentives in there, according to Rappaport, on how many games he starts. but a solid, you know, what I would call money-wise, a solid backup quarterback deal. Now, I've got five or six takeaways from this signing, and I've got Ben Standing from the Athletic, who was kind enough in the midst of writing his story on Taylor Heineke to jump on the podcast because I want to get his thoughts as well. I was a little bit surprised that this happened. Now, I actually thought that the tender process was going to be used with him.

him, but it wasn't. But what are your takeaways from this? And have you learned anything other than what Rappaport is reporting? I know you were on the Zoom call as well with Taylor Heineke just an hour or so ago. Yeah, I haven't learned anything new about the money. What he's reported, there's some devil in the details, right? Like how much of the second year is guaranteed, you know, how much is he getting up front? You know, it, you know, even if it's straight, just, you know, even money, you know, four point something million over each year. That's not exactly starter money in the NFL. Right.

What they did was they gave themselves more depth. Kyle Allen, who I think I would presume we talked about this the other day, is the odds on favorites you start based on the not knowing what else is happening. But he has come off ankle surgery. So that's a variable. You know, Alex Smith's situation obviously is somewhat up in the air because of his, you know, the overall concerns about his physical status and also if they release and they save about 14 million on the cap. So releasing him seems to make logical sense at some point, especially if they do bring in

another veteran or they draft a rookie or what have you. So you need something else. And Taylor Heineke showed in the playoff game last year that he can be something else that he can step in in the biggest spot and produce and do so in a decent way. I know there's a lot of fans who want, you know, who or do we're excited for Heineke. you know, like Chase Young to be the starter, I'm not seeing that. But one thing Taylor Heineke said today when asked, what's your sense of the quarterback room now, based on now having signed,

he said, Ron Rivera has preached a competition, and I think that's the way it's going to go. We'll see who else they bring in, whether that's the case, and whether he really has a shot to start. But regardless, he's in the mix. He's on the roster. And it is a remarkable turnaround from where he was, you know, not long ago, taking.

classes at O'DU and been unemployed quarterback to now signing this contract that gives him some security for the first time in his career. I've read some of you who have tweeted about the things that he said during his Zoom call. I was not able to hear it live. I've just seen some of what's been tweeted about it. Was there anything specific about what he was told by Rivera or Scott Turner or Marty Herney or Martin Mayhew or anybody in the organization? about what this signing means for him? No, I mean, pretty much what I was just saying about the competition. I don't know if that's exactly what he said Rivera was telling him,

but I think that was just his sort of interpretation of the situation. Right. And, you know, this all happened, I guess, you know, came down fairly quick. So, no, he didn't have any real sense of that. You know, he said he wanted to stay in Washington. Like, he was asked, why didn't you, you were restricted for agent? You could have tested the market. you have some juice after that game.

Why not test the market? He said that basically that, you know, he felt some loyalty to Scott Turner and Rivera. Scott Turner was like basically the only NFL coach who attended his pro day and was brought him to Minnesota. Originally then when he moved to Carolina, got Heineke there as well. And then obviously here as well,

so he feels some loyalty to him. I also would imagine that realistically, there is no market for Taylor Heineke other than just to be a backup somewhere. they're talking to people after that, talking to people around the league after that Tampa Bay game, that was the sense, hey, props to this kid, he put himself on the map, he got himself a job, but that job is a backup. So why take a job somewhere else where you don't know the system and all that? He's comfortable here. He knows the situation. And, you know, that's a good thing. And like I said, who knows? He could be the number two quarterback. It's conceivable next year. And then you're one injury away from, you know, from playing. You could be the he could be the starting quarterback too. Here are my few takeaways, I guess, I would describe them as. Number one is, you know, $4.375 million per year.

And again, regardless of structure, the amount says they like him, rather than going to tender route and they like him. They wanted to get this done. They wanted him to be on this roster in 2021 at a bare minimum. You know, the details of the contract sometimes are very telling. But the bottom line is you don't on February 10th signed Taylor Heineke to a two-year, you know, $8.75 million deal unless you like him. Number two is, my sense is he is in the mix to start for, to compete for a starting job, depending on how the rest of this offseason plays out. Number three is Alex Smith, Ben,

is not coming back under his current contract cap number. Now, I would have predicted that even before this, but this sort of just in my own mind hammered home the fact that Alex Smith is not going to be on the 21 roster at a $24 million cap number. That's just not going to happen. They're not going to end up having multiple guys who are injury prone and have been injured and have missed games as recently as like two months ago be on the roster for big cap numbers. Number four for me is anybody that thinks that this impacts the Kyle Allen situation, no. Kyle Allen, I would bet a large money. He is re-signed. Why, number one, they like him too. Number two, he's super cheap.

Like he is, in his current situation, they can bring Kyle Allen back next year for basically $875,000. So he'll be making potentially a lot less than Taylor Heineke. Now, it's also possible that they could restructure and extend Kyle Allen as well. Lastly, I think, you know, none of this impacts their current modus operandi, which has been to pursue a quarterback. whether that's a quarterback that would come in and compete with their existing quarterbacks or a quarterback that they would trade for or sign in free agency or trade up for in the draft that would come in with the idea, maybe not in the draft necessarily,

but would come in with the idea of at the very least competing for a starting job if not being a guy that would be a very obvious starter from day one. As an example, if they traded for Sam Darnold. I don't think any of those possibilities have been eliminated by this. It is still, however, Ben, it's still caught me a little bit off guard, and it does say to me they really like Taylor Heineke. Scott Turner, we know really likes Taylor Heineke, but it says Ron Rivera really likes him,

and if they strike out on all fronts, free agent front, trade front, trading up in the draft or drafting somebody at 19, and they are stuck, you know, and stuck may be the wrong way to describe it. They certainly wouldn't describe it that way. But they will have Taylor Heineke and Kyle Allen battling it out in training camp and in preseason to win the starting job. They needed at least that situation. Ultimately, they may have no choice but to have Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineke battle it out. And I'm not saying they would hate that.

They've obviously tried to upgrade from that. But they want to make sure that no worse than Allen versus Heineke for the starting job in 2021, if they can't improve their situation or upgrade their situation. Yeah, I think I mentioned this to you on your radio show the other day or maybe when you were on my podcast this week. You and I have talked a lot this week. I talked to, you know, league sources, you know, about the overall quarterback situation around the league and with a focus on Washington, obviously. and one one GM told me that with regards to Washington's circumstance that it's clear that Ron Rivera sees Kyle Allen at a minimum as some sort of you know bridge option for him that he doesn't have to panic with this whole searching for a quarterback because he feels that Kyle Allen is a viable thing and this GM said he kind of agrees with that thinking based on what he sees but he added to that.

that it's the combination of Allen with Heineke that will allow Ron Rivera and Washington to sort of, you know, to not panic and to sort of go into this process with some level of peace. And now that is secured because they've now signed Heineke rather than wait and like you said, go through tender and other things. They want, they got this done. And I guess I was a little surprised when the news came out today just because I wasn't expecting it right off the bat, but I'm also simultaneously not surprised because it just seemed logical that he would. be here. I've been viewing him as part of the mix overall. I guess if they had hypothetically landed Matthew Stafford, then maybe, you know, then maybe that changes it or somehow they've got you know, if they had done something else already, maybe that would have a change the equation. But where they are now and as we've discussed, there's not an obvious go, you know, a must have

starter out there on the market anymore. I'm not on the market, meaning not DeShon Watson, not that press guide. So you would like to think, I would like to think, that they ultimately land on a quarterback that seems better than Kyle Allen or Taylor Heineke, but it's also conceivable that they may just get somebody who may be conceivably better, but not, you know, the monsterively better. And thus, you got a competition. And look, Ron Rivera has already said his big regret last year was not having a competition between Duane Haskins and Conall Allen. Unless he gets a go-to-starter, you can bet he's not going to make that mistake again. Right. Again, the one thing that I would emphasize though is, well, first, two things. One that I haven't mentioned. I do find it very

interesting, and I don't find it unreasonable. Trust me, for those that are listening, I don't find it unreasonable for those of you that are really excited about this and really wanted to see Taylor Heineke come back and really want to see Taylor Heineke be the starting quarterback of your Washington football team next year. He played really well when he had the opportunity. you know, in that second half against Carolina and in the playoff game against Tampa as a last-minute starter. Look, I don't know what he is. I really don't think even those of you who are bullish on him and think that he can be the starter. I don't even think you guys really understand what he is or is not.

I don't know what he is or isn't. I'm not discounting the possibility of Kineke could be something, you know, super special down the road. I just wouldn't bet on it. and the odds would be in my favor and in Ben's favor because Ben feels the same way. And Ben and I talked on his podcast the other day and on the radio show maybe Monday. Look, bottom line, if Todd Bowles knew anything about Taylor Heinekeen could have prepared for him. And if Devin White had played in the playoff game, I think the results would have been different. But at the same time, it doesn't mean that I didn't think he played well and that I didn't see something from him.

But we're really commenting and talking more about what we think they're thinking right now. And I don't think they've stopped in their pursuit of somebody maybe with a bigger name. And I don't think that they believe for a moment, as Ben's sort of implied, that Kyle Allen might not have the edge over Heineke in a competition if they both enter camp totally healthy. and are the two legitimate guys in there. With that said, the other point that I wanted to make is this contract, let's just say it is $4.375 million for 2021. If he is a backup, it puts him salary-wise in like the top five range of backup, you know, compensation levels.

You know, Alex Smith, I think by far and away was the most expensive backup in 2020. but you know and they signed Taysam Hill to that big deal. Marietta's got a big contract. After that, I think Heineke's contract would pretty much put him in the top five of backup quarterbacks. It's not insignificant, you know, what they gave him. Again, the structure and how much of it's guaranteed we'll learn more about, but they do like them.

And so we'll see. Are you, by the way, it's not that I'm amused by it because, again, I think it's rational. I don't think it's irrational. But there is a big part of your audience, my audience, those of us that, you know, talk Washington football all the time, that actually think he is the answer after watching him in, you know, a game and a half. I mean, look, if you want, if we ranked the 17, the 16 starts made by Washington quarterbacks this year, you can make the case that the best one was his against Tampa Bay. And, you know, like, I, Again, not going to go crazy with, hey, Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl,

therefore we can extrapolate that Tyler, Taylor Heinecke can compete at the highest level in the league. But in that game, he did, you know, he did compete, he did perform. You know, one of the issues, and he addressed this today, is he gets hurt. He started two games in his career, both games, he suffered an injury. He said that his goal, his top goal this offseason is to put on some weight and, you know, kind of figure out ways to become more durable. That's obviously a big aspect. And that's the thing with all the quarterback.

Smith, Allen, and Heineke, injuries are a big factor. And it's not just a matter of talent. You've got to be able to know or believe that your quarterback's going to be at there for 16 weeks. And I think that's why, to some degree, it's hard to get behind any of these guys. Even beyond the questionable aspects of talent, can you trust them to stay out on the field? Like I said, I agree that I don't think Smith is going to be back. But even if it's Allen and Heineke, the injury history is there. So that's why bringing in somebody else, even just for depth.

Again, this team has, in two of the last three years, has started at least four quarterbacks. So having that depth is the most important position is key. And that's why I imagine no matter what happens, they're bringing in somebody else. Stephen Montes still exists. But until we know what he's even more unknown than these guys are by a lot. So I'm not discounting him as just the practice squad guy until further notice.

So yeah, I still assume they're bringing in somebody that somebody, like I said, may easily be a bigger name or more. viable week one presence than these two, but at the same time, clearly Ron Rivera and Scott Turner like both Kyle Island and Taylor Heineke. And look, you know, Washington's quarterback thing has been an absolutely bizarre situation for the last year. Anything is possible, as Kevin Garnett would say. And if you tell me Taylor Heineke starts, I would be surprised, but I can't rule it out for all the reasons you just kind of laid out. It is interesting. I'm just sitting here thinking to this organizations made a living out of paying backup quarterbacks with an injury history in the

event that the starter gets injured. You know, Colt McCoy had a long injury history. For all intents and purposes, Alex Smith, Kyle Smith, and then Taylor Heineke all have gotten injured before. But the other thing about Taylor Heineke and Kyle Allen, I said Kyle Smith, I meant Kyle Allen, is that there's an unknowledge. known there. You know, Colt McCoy was always a backup to me even when they signed him as a backup. You know, I'd seen enough of his career to think he's a backup quarterback. He's not a 16-game starting quarterback. You know, in the same way that if you were to sign Chase Daniel as an example, he's a backup quarterback, A.J. McCarran, backup quarterback. The difference with Kyle Allen and

Taylor Heineke is you can't say that definitively because you haven't seen enough of them. And what you've seen of them has been intriguing, promising, however you want to describe it, certainly in the Scott Turner system, the Scott and North Turner system. So last thing for Ben Standing, follow him on Twitter at Ben Standing, listen to his podcast, you can get it anywhere, subscribe to the athletic, I'm a subscriber to the athletic, and it's worth it. What's their next move at quarterback? Well, I mean, again, we've talked about this. I mean, there's, again, DeCon Watson's a whole other story.

We leave that, leaving that out. And even, I think we both agree, even if he became available, it seems more likely other teams would have better assets to get him than Washington. And then that leaves you with, you know, a lot of uncertainty. I mean, maybe the Jets put Sam Darnold up for trade at some point, depending on what they decide to do with the draft or maybe if they get Watson. And then everybody else, you know, your, you're Cam Newton's, your, your Andy Dalton's, Mitch Trubiske's, you know, maybe Marcus Marriota may spring for free. I mean, all these players,

again, on paper, or maybe in reality, maybe better than what they have, but they're not obviously better. Again, I just think what they've done today is they've given themselves options if everything else falls apart. They just determine that the cost, trade, or financial, is not what they want to go. They've Rivera and Herney and Mayhew all talked about not wanting in the mortgage in the future, regardless of how important the position is. They did make the aggressive play for Stafford, but just like last year with Amari Cooper, they made an aggressive play then didn't go crazy just to bring in somebody else. And that's what we need to see.

Will they make a big play to get a Sam Darnold if they think that that's better? Will they make a bold signing that that isn't just, you know, just coming to compete? Like, no, you're the guy. We're going to give you the money to prove it. We'll see if they do that. if they do, well then Kyle Allen and Heineke drop back in the depth chart. If not, we could have a very interesting three-way battle. Again, I understand, like you said, there's reason to be optimistic on the Taylor and Heineke thing. I'm not there yet. I'm not even there yet. Honestly,

with Kyle Allen, I just know that they are. But there was also unknown with both, as you stated. So it makes it interesting. And that's why I, no matter who, and look, if they bring in a rookie, right, it seems to absolutely reasonable that either Allen or Heineke would be the one. week one starter while the rookie comes along. Yeah, and let me be clear on what you said. My feeling is that it's not irrational to be optimistic. My personal opinion of Taylor Heinecke is, I have no idea. I just have no idea. Like, you know, we haven't seen enough of him. The one thing that bothers me is he has started three games in his NFL career and he's been injured in all three of those games. Anyway,

appreciate you jumping on. Get back. Finish your column for the athletic. Subscribe to the athletic. Follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standing. Listen to his podcast. I mentioned this, I think, on the radio show this week. But if you haven't listened to Ben's interview with Jay Gruden, totally worthwhile. Just find his podcast, Ben Standing's podcast anywhere you find a podcast, same way that you find mine. Thank you. Appreciate it. always Kevin thanks man Chris Cooley right after this word from one of our sponsors all right let's bring in Cooley on the Taylor Heineke News after talking to Ben Standing by the way I found this list because I had mentioned to Ben Cooley

that at $4.375 million per year we don't know the structure of the deal we don't know how much of it's guaranteed etc but just on the surface it would make them basically a top five backup contract in the NFL. And I found this list of the top five backup contracts from last year. Alex Smith was number one, obviously. Taysam Hill, remember, they signed him to a big deal. Marriota, Hill's deal was $8.8 million. Mariotta was third, $7.5 million. Case Keenham was

fourth at $5.5 million. And then you had Mitch Trubisky, who did not start the season, remember, behind Nick Foles at $4.5 million. And then came AJ McCarran at four. So his would slot basically at sixth. And then I found this list of just the highest paid backups going back the last four or five years. And the guy that continues to, it was on the list many times. There are a couple of guys that are on the list. Chase Daniel keeps popping up on the list.

Chad Henney keeps popping up on the list. Colt McCoy's on here a couple of times. Yeah, Colt McCoy. Colt McCoy got some good money. He made $3 million a year. He was fifth on the highest paid backup QB list in 2017. Chase Daniel was number one in 2016, number five in 2018, and tied for third in 2019.

I would bet that nobody has made more money taking fewer snaps than Chase Daniel over the last 10 years. That's a great bet. Adam Archoletta was high on that list of money without now. I'm talking about quarterbacks, though. No, I understand what you're talking about. And when you're talking about the backup quarterback list, you really can't count Alex Smith because that wasn't a backup quarterback contract. It's hard to count Mitch Trubisky.

He's under his first-round rookie deal that they didn't count on him being a backup quarterback. I mean, AJ McKaron is a good one. but he's at 475 he's got to be at the bottom end of starting quarterbacks well yeah because of starting quarterbacks that are on rookie deals right you would have that that possibility um what's your reaction to it i mean i'll share with you mine in a moment um just to repeat it after i was talking to ben but what is your reaction to them signing high We don't know the structure. We don't know how much of it's guaranteed,

but they obviously like him if they signed him to a two-year contract extension. That they like him, that they think that he can play if they need him to play. It seems to me like a backup deal, but they feel good about having him on their roster. The other aspect is, what do you do with Kyle Allen now? You know, I was thinking about it over the last couple days because we keep talking about, we're going to have Heineke and Kyle Allen and then whoever else.

Why would you have both of those guys? They seem to be the same type of player. Because you're afraid one's going to get hurt if you ended up playing them. Because, I mean, it doesn't seem to me that one's going to truly outshine another one in training camp. You know who both of them are. I mean, I guess they'll find out if anybody's going to give anything for Kyle Allen. but he's an exclusive rights-free agent. Right.

Alan, right? Yeah, and if they, if they sign him to that deal, which seems like a no-brainer to me, it's $850,000. Right. And they traded for him last year. Like, they like Kyle Allen. We know they like Kyle Allen. What?

The amazing thing is good for Heineke. Right. The dude was done. how happy is he to take that check into the bank? Right. So true. The personal part of this of not having a job and taking classes, you know, advanced, you know, derivatives, hard, you know, financial math classes

and thinking that you're going to be doing something other than playing football and then getting signed and then basically two months later, you know, putting, you know, I don't know how much he got. in a signing bonus. But let's just say that half of it's guaranteed, you know, making four and a half million bucks to play football. Yes, it's... That's amazing.

I mean, one game, or a game in a quarter, and he's going to take in, I'll bet it's not half. I don't know, maybe on the guaranteed, but he's going to walk in net $2 million into the bank. even if he would only play two more years, that's a great jumpstart on whatever career he gets to. It really is. From where he was. And plus, it's what he wanted to do.

I think it's great for him. And he played well enough in a game to truly show against an elite defense that he can make some throws, make some plays, that he's got some guts, that he can lead an offense. It might not be that every week, but he showed that he can operate. So what is your guess on what the thinking is? Like, what is the plan right now? I think that they probably had an idea that they would make a run at somebody like Stafford, which was what you wanted them to do, that they maybe make a run at a guy like Doss. They probably know they can't make a run at.

Deshawn Watson. Now you're sitting there playing this waiting game, not knowing about Darnold and not knowing about whatever else comes up in terms of quarterback possibilities. And also not knowing who falls to you in the draft. And you just wanted to ensure that you knew you had at least one guy that you liked and believe in. But it seems to me to some extent that they're not just getting a dude.

I don't know. That said, though, that's not enough money that you're afraid of it. It's a backup quarterback contract. It doesn't kill you. It really doesn't kill you if you end up trading for something like Darnold or finding a way to trade for anybody else who comes available and then having to pay them whatever. The $4 million a year is not a big deal.

You know what, though, and I mentioned this, number one, they like him. Number two for me is, you know, if he's in here with, Darnold or without Carr or without Watson or without Wence or without Prescott or without Russell Wilson who now, you know, apparently teams

are inquiring about. It means that, you know, he's more likely than not going to have a chance to compete for the starting job. It also means to me, not that I needed this to think this way, but I think this confirms a little bit more

in my own mind. There's no chance Alex Smith is coming back at a $24 million cap number. That's just not going to happen. It wasn't going to happen before this, but it's not happening. You know, you're not signing Taylor Heineke to compete with Alex Smith at $24 million as a cap hit. You know, you're just, you're not doing that. By the way, they're going to bring Kyle Allen back. I'd be very surprised if Kyle Allen's not back, you know, competing for a starting job with Taylor Heineke in a worst case environment. Best case is, they've got somebody else, and these two guys are essentially are going to be on the

roster as quarterback two and quarterback three in some order. Heineke would obviously have the advantage with the contract. But I just, I mean, they like him, and I think what they're doing is they're saying, look, if we struck out on Stafford, we made a real effort to go after Stafford. The reports are that they are with some interest in Goff. it wouldn't surprise me if they have interest in somebody like Darnold. It would be more of a surprise to me if they had interest in somebody like car, if the price is higher.

Marriota, I don't see that, even though I think Marietta, there's a chance he could get traded. We could go through the list again. I think there's more of a chance of them trading up or drafting somebody at 19 and drafting a young player. But I think, you know, this is a way to ensure that if they can't make a move for an obvious upgrade, that they have Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineke, two guys who really know the system, two guys who Scott Turner really likes,

who Ron Rivera really likes, and they'll go 2021 with one of those two guys as a starter and one of those guys as a backup. I think they have to be fine with that because there might not be an available option for them that makes any sense. I'm with you on the Alex Smith thing. This story overshadows what he actually is as a quarterback at this point. And there's nothing that anyone needs to take offense to. I think Alex understands that as well.

If you continue to play, he's going to take that high-end backup quarterback salary. That's what he'd end up restructuring or doing another deal with. Right. That's what he's going to get. And that you can't pay someone $24 million at his level right now. That's just not good business. And even Alex would understand that situation. And also knowing that, look, anything could happen to that leg at any point.

And it's just wear down through eight games. He's like probably it did this year and you can't count on him to start a full season. You love to be able to. You just can't. You know, it's not impossible that you end up with Alex at $5 million a year, total restructured deal. Heinekee at $4.375 and Kyle Allen at, you know, a million bucks a year or whatever,

and you got the three of them and you've got the leader and the mentor. And if you need him to start because you think, think that's your best option and he becomes help look I don't think they've completely discounted Alex Smith coming back I just think they've completely discounted Alex Smith coming back with a 24 million cap number personally I'd love to see them make more progress at the position for 2021 yeah but they but they're trying it or they've tried they tried with Stafford and just because they want to upgrade doesn't mean that it'll happen. It's not totally a within their control situation. Exactly. You might go to the store and it's out of stock.

Yeah. So we got to go home and we got to make a cheese sandwich. We, we'd like this product, but there isn't one for, other than the one thing that's sitting there that, like the random dude on eBay put the astronomical bit on, you're like Damn, man. Praise duck. The only thing I get, okay, well, I'll make do with what I have. It's fine. If you're going to go to the season with Heineke and Kyle Allen and Alex Smith,

then you better be very serious about either drafting somebody that you believe in or that you like or that you want to develop or acquiring draft capital for next year to attempt to make a move next year. That's what they're short on draft capital to some extent at this point. Well, I mean... To make any move. Cooley. I mean, you're not coming back with all three of them.

Oh, no, no, no. And then a young guy. Yeah. I understand that. But you could go into the draft with all three. Yeah. You know, I'm looking up because, you know, off the top of my head, I can't, like, think about the 2022 quarterbacks.

I don't know. The guy from North Carolina, I'm not a big fan of. What? There's a Jew. June 1st cut date that I think you save even more money on Alex if you release him after June 1st. Yeah. Anyway. So he'll, he'd probably be on the roster until at least after the draft.

And if they didn't, then you'd restructure them or redo it. I mean, look, the way you proposed, you're still under $10 million a year at the quarterback position, which is cheap. Yes. All right. Right now, we have to wager on the quarterbacks on the wrong. roster and the starter on opening day 2021. I would say the odds on favorite right now is Heineke.

To be on the roster or start? To start. Okay. I think the dude gave him a chance to win a playoff game against Tampa Bay. And I'm not saying we're not playing the Tampa Bay game and prove that that's a good defense. The dude gave him a chance to win that game alone. We both decided he was the one factor that gets to win that football game.

So you give him the reps with the ones through the offseason, in my opinion. And if Kyle Allen is much better or Alex Smith is completely healthy and it's a new deal and he's shown that he's much better, then we start splitting some of those reps. I already told you, I think Tyler Heineke is probably a really average practice player. Yeah, you do. Yeah. I mean, that's how you don't make teams. You're not a great practice player.

You don't get reps in games, and you're not the best practice players. But we saw what he did off script, off schedule, and that does not happen in practice. So I think that they probably end up giving him way more rep to find out exactly who he is. But at the same time, they're definitely interested in drafting somebody. There's got to be interest in either Mac Jones or track. or seeing what they can do to get further up. The other thing, you know, as you think about it, warrants is going number one for sure to Jacksonville.

But with this quarterback carousel, when this all plays out, it could change the draft status of some of these guys, like field. You know, if the top four teams that need quarterbacks, three of them get guys, it changes things around a little bit in terms of the value of the quarterbacks in the draft. you may be able to trade up to 12 or 13 to get one of these dudes. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot that could happen. I mean, Todd McShay put out his mock last night or early this morning.

Lawrence went one, Zach Wilson, two to the Jets. He's got Carolina trading up to number three with Miami to draft Tray Lance, quarterback, quarterback, quarterback. then Atlanta picks Justin Fields, four QBs to open up the draft in McShay's mock draft. Then you go down to the next quarterback taken, which is Chicago trading into the 12 spot with San Francisco to take Mack Jones at 12 overall, who had, you know, apparently a great weekend last weekend. And then he has Washington taking Cadarius Tony, the receiver from Florida, who I love. And then you've got the rest of the first round that goes by without a quarterback being taken.

So Kyle Trask is not, you know, a quarterback that goes in the first round. My guess, by the way, is that Kyle Allen is the starter on opening day 2021. Taylor Heineke is the backup. And that they do not draft a quarterback in the first round. I think that there will be another run at somebody, whether it is Darnold or somebody like that. But more than, but I have a feeling they'll come up short on that end as well. And that you're going to go into 2021 with Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineke. And then, you know, if it doesn't work out, if neither one of them is the next Kurt Warner or Tony Romo or, you know, Jake Delome,

then they will address this next year. But they're going to try to go. This isn't plan A. This is plan B. Plan A was somebody like Stafford. Actually, this is Plan C. Plan A was somebody like Stafford. Plan B is probably going to be another swing at somebody else.

I don't know who that is, whether it's Darnold or Marietta or somebody, or maybe even a free agent guy. And plan C is, look, we like Taylor and we like. Kyle a lot. Ron Rivera told me on the radio show last week, we have to be absolutely sure we have to investigate, we have to exhaust all options. And I think they will continue to try to exhaust all options and come to the conclusion that what's left in the store is either too expensive to purchase and the, you know, the juice ain't worth the squeeze and that they will end up with Plan C,

which they're okay with because they like both of these guys a lot, and they won't be spending a lot on the quarterback position. And I don't know who the third quarterback in camp will be. Maybe it'll be Stephen Montez again. And then they will draft at 19, a linebacker or a wide receiver or somebody to fill another need. They need a linebacker, they need a receiver. I just don't see any way that quarterbacks go one, two, three, four,

unless other teams trade up. The Jets are, unless they move Darnold are not drafting a quarterback in two. That's not going to happen. If Darnold is on the Jets by the draft, he will stay on the jet. You're going to lose a boatload of value in Darnold if you wait until post-draft, my opinion, because four teams are going to take a quarterback that need quarterbacks. That would have been your four highest bidders. Atlanta is not going to take a quarterback.

They're just, I don't. Well, I could see them taking the air apparent with, Matt Ryan. I think they're... Not with four overall. Why not? What if they really like fields or if they really like Ryan? They still operate on offense. Ryan does exactly what they want to do. Well, they're going to keep Ryan. They're going to keep Ryan for another two years.

They're not going to draft a quarterback. They're just not. Okay. Matt Ryan was good in Kyle Shanahan's zone run stuff. He operated the way they want. That's what Arthur Smith's going to do. I can't see him. And Atlanta desperately needs defense. Yep. They're either trading out of a spot or taking the linebacker from Penn State is what I would bet Atlanta would do. I can definitely see Carolina making a move up somewhere in the draft to get a guy.

Which means Bridgewater could be available. Which means Bridgewater could be available. So then you're looking at Bridgewater and Carr, Marriota. I would take Carr, you wouldn't, I would take Carr before a lot of these guys. I take Carr before Bridgewater. I take Carr before Marriota. I think Carr would be the next best option if that becomes a possibility. But I think the Raiders, I read the Jay Gruden stuff again on Carr.

I've seen the stuff on Car. I think they're definitely trying to drive that eBay bid value up by proclaiming their love for Car. They've taken a lot of pictures and posted on eBay and a lot of flashy angles and put a lot of information in. And really, it looks good. So, they're going to want more than people want to give for that product. Yeah, they took out all of the furniture from the house that was really old and stale. And they put in new furniture, painted it, did some really nice landscaping out front. And they're asking for a lot more than some of the homes that recently sold in the market.

But, you know, all it takes is one, Cooley. All it takes is one interested party. My guess actually, I just, I think that Washington's going to enter training camp in August with Heineke, Allen, and somebody we've never heard of. Or Montez or somebody like that. And they're going to draft a receiver, they're going to draft a linebacker, they're going to draft a corner. You know, somebody like Patrick Certan, if he's there at 19. or Cadarius Tony is a wide receiver if he's there at 19. They do have a lot of money to spend in free agency.

I think the problem with having not an obvious answer to quarterback is it makes it more difficult to attract somebody like Alan Robinson if you're really interested in him. I'm sure a guy like Robinson at this point in his career would rather go to a place with a bona fide, you know, legitimate starting quarterback that everybody knows is legitimate and bona fide. You know, remember, attracting free agents hasn't been the easiest thing here in recent years,

whether it was Bruce on the cheap or just the stigma of the franchise. But they've got all this money to spend. So we'll see. But I feel like Robinson's going to go to play for the Rams. Just on a random thought. What about Kenny Gallaudet to the Rams? That would make absolute sense. The Rams need another receiver.

Yeah, they do. Washington needs at least a legit one receiver, another big-time receiver. That would help a lot. Even a big one receiver would help. Any quarterback you were to take a year from now, the tight-in from Florida, he's probably a top 10 picks. Yeah, he's not going to be like that. But, you know, he's unbelievable.

Monster. It's unbelievable. Yeah. It's just one of those funny years that, gosh, if you, I think there's so much value in making the playoffs, but if they could have lost three more games and had the top 10 pick, it would have been huge for them. Right.

It would have been huge for them. There's something else I want to talk to you about right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, we're going to finish up with this. So yesterday there were a bunch of reports, coolly, about Russell Wilson. Number one is that there are several teams that have inquired about whether or not Russell Wilson is available, which was pretty surprising. according to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler, those calls were absolute non-starters for Seattle, who've made it clear that Wilson will not be traded.

By the way, trading Wilson before June 1 would be a $40 million dead money hit against Seattle's 2021 salary cap. He just remember in 2019 signed a four-year, $140 million contract extension. He's got three years left on that. He does have a no trade clause, which is interesting, similar to discharges. Sean Watson, so he would be able to sort of dictate where he went. But the bigger news from Russell Wilson yesterday was the interview that he did on the Dan Patrick show, where he essentially said he wants to be involved in, you know, personnel decisions for the franchise. He has, you know, he complained about, and when I say complained, he spoke to the fact that, you know, he's gotten sacked

a hell of a lot. You know, we've talked about the reasons for his sacks. Forty-seven sacks in 2020, third most in the NFL behind Carson Wentz and Deshawn Watson. By the way, two quarterbacks that are won out or are going to be moved. He was sacked five more times and pressured on 50% of his dropbacks in that loss to Los Angeles, the Rams in the postseason. And Wilson acknowledged that, you know, he does hold on to the ball a little bit. bit more in trying to make plays, which is, by the way, what Deshawn Watson does, and even what Carson Wentz does. You know, two of the big reasons why they get sacked a lot, too, is they're always trying

to wait, wait, wait, extend, extend, extend to try to make a play. But in this interview, he said, quote, I want to be able to be involved. At the end of the day, it's your legacy, it's your team's legacy, it's the guys you get into the huddle with. And at the end of the day, those are the guys you've got to trust. I think for me, anytime you bring in free agents or other players, you want the best players, guys who love the game. And then he got into this long diatribe about how players know players. And players have basically a different perspective and maybe a more informed perspective.

And therefore, you know, he wants to be involved. He wants to be a part of the dialogue in making personnel decisions in Seattle. Now, ESPN reported that Pete Carroll involved Wilson in the team's recent hiring of Shane Waldron, who's now going to be their new offensive coordinator. And Wilson was very complimentary on the Dan Patrick show about Shane Waldron, who was the Rams passing game coordinator for Sean McVeigh last year and will become the new OC in Seattle. What do you think about the, Deshawn Watson demanding a trade a few months after he's signs a deal. Russell Wilson wanting more involvement. You know,

Sean Watson wanting out because they didn't involve him and they told him they would. You know, Russell Wilson wanting more of a say-so in personnel. He mentioned LeBron a couple of times in this interview with Dan Patrick. What's your reaction to that? When you pay these guys more money than probably your entire scouting staff combined, talk to tell them they can't be involved. I just, it's different than LeBron. For one reason, mostly, is that LeBron is it's not that hard to evaluate every position on the court.

It's not that, and they know these guys better. They play against everybody. They see everybody. They see so much more than a quarterback would see in terms of evaluation. Russell Wilson's gear, He's not watching offensive guard set. Can he evaluate the offensive lineman the way he needs to? Is that appropriate?

Is he capable of that? Is he going to spend the time? Look, I want my starting quarterback to be happy, and if he's my franchise and there's everything around him, I'm not going to tell him no, Kev. I'm going to say coming in right reports. You're not, don't walk in, don't walk in, my office and say, we want branded sheriff, go get him. I don't care what it costs.

Brandon Sheriff's the guy. Like, I'm going to say, me why. But Russell Wilson's going to sit there and say, like, you guys, you got brought in Chad Wheeler. Look what he did. I told you. He was crazy. So I don't think that there's a problem having a player like Russell Wilson come in, spend time with the scouts, spend time with the staff, write reports, evaluate these guys. put together 50 plays on film of why he wants ex-player, how that guy affects his offense, what do you think he's going to get out of him? But you can't just say, I like him draft him.

I like him sign him. It's just I don't think that works. That's not the process that you go through. The thing is, there's so many buses it is, and I think that there's a flaw in a lot of teams scouting department and how it messes with their coaching department. We've talked about this a lot, that they don't even, a lot of times, understand how guys' scheme fit. All that said, a quarterback that holds the ball for seconds is going to get pressure.

A quarterback that runs around and tries to make plays that doesn't just dump it is going to get pressured. It's just part of the nature of it. But you almost compare that to the way baseball has changed. Instead of trying to hit the ball hard, these guys have adjusted their swing to try to hit home runs. Like football ebbs and flows on the home run, and the big play. Seahawks win games because Russell Wilson gets out of the pocket, H.K. Meckoff for 50.

So there's validity to his game in the way it's played, but it's also a risk situation. I don't know, you know, does he want to be involved with just his line, with his receivers with the back? Does he want to be acquiring defensive players? I think it's a huge step. The one thing I would say is, in a more, more I think about it.

I don't, I don't know, dude. I don't think that other players need to, because you let Russell Wilson evaluate, doesn't mean that you're going to let TK. Metcalfevaluate. Nothing's fair in pro sports at this point.

It never should have been. So I don't feel like you're opening Pandora's box and saying, all you guys come and start scouting. But I want to know what he's looking at, is what I'm saying, before I just give him the reins. Yeah, that's really smart.

It's funny because I think a lot of this does stem from a league that a lot of players really love, which is the NBA, and the NBA is a league that's different than any other. The players run the league. The players have significant influence, significant clout in these organizations. and I don't think the NFL wants to become the NBA. But with that said, look, the Deshawn Watson situation is very different than the Russell Wilson situation from this perspective.

You know, the Texans told Deshawn Watson that he was going to have input on the hiring of a GM and a coach and then didn't give him that input. You know, that's the worst thing you can do. I've already said this a few times on the podcast before, but the way to handle that if you're Cal McNair, is you don't tell that Deshaun Watson that he's going to have any input into anything, but then you give it to him. Hey, Deshaun, what are you doing today?

We're bringing in Nick Casario from the Patriots. We're interviewing him to be the general manager. I would really love your input. I'd love you to sit down with him for 30 minutes if you could and tell me what you think. Hey, I'm bringing in a couple of coaching candidates this week. If you've got time, I'd really value your input. I'd like you to sit 15, 20 minutes, you know, with some of these guys that we bring in.

But instead, they told them that they were going to give them significant input and then didn't give him any. In the case of Russell Wilson, you know, he's asking for it, if not demanding it. It was sort of couched as a demand. I'll be honest with you. I did not listen to the interview. I just read the quotes from the Dan Patrick interview. And as Bucky Brooks, a guy who I actually really respect and follow on Twitter,

a longtime NFL network guy scout in the NFL. He said, look, quarterback's, nuts. Sure, teams should have open dialogue with their star players on some things, but to think that the quarterback should call the shots in regards to personnel is bananas. And then he put the emoji of bananas next to it. I think, by the way, it's so true about Russell Wilson. He should not, and nobody should knock the way he plays. He is high risk, high reward, but the rewards are totally worth the risks. He gets sacked a lot in trying to make plays. like Mahomes, like Aaron Rogers, like Josh Allen does, like Carson Wentz does, like Deshawn Watson does.

But the plays that they end up making by using their gifts of being able to evade and extend and draw out, end up being the plays that win games. And it's why Seattle's won all these games since 2012. If Russell Wilson weren't their quarterback, they wouldn't have been as successful a franchise as they've been. This dude's taken them to the playoffs every year. they've been to two Super Bowls. They've won one of them. You know, they've been on the cusp many times.

This is, you know, when you have somebody like this, this, you know, circles back to the conversation about having a real quarterback and elite quarterback. You're going to contend every year pretty much. Even if you don't get all the way, you're going to win 10, 11 games, and you're going to have a chance at it each year. And that's what Russell Wilson's given them. With that said, it's a fine line. Like, you know, you have to, if I were an owner and I had Russell Wilson, I think I'd handle it the same way you did described.

I think I would say, look, I do want your feedback. You're an important part of the overall franchise here. I do want your feedback. But if you are going to give me feedback that we can use, you've got to do the work. You know, you've got to do the work that my general manager and his group of scouts and everybody that works for him. You just can't come in here and say, hey, there's a guy I've played against. I know he's really good. We got to go get him. You've got to understand not only how we evaluate players, how that that player fits into the scheme, and then you've got to understand all of the financial

impacts of, you know, salary and structure and everything else. But, you know, and you can do that as a franchise as an owner with a player like Russell Wilson without setting some sort of precedent that Chris Carson now is going to become, you know, the assistant general manager. You can do that. You know, not all people get treated the same. Russell Wilson's, you know, the face of that franchise. He's a massive difference maker. He's been the reason.

You've been who you've been. I don't have a problem with that. I would tell them, you know, I would tell him, though, I'd rather not hear you complain about past protection or getting sacked in You know, the kinds of things that lead people to think that you're being critical of the organization or critical of your teammates. You know, you've got to be careful there. You know, back to Deshawn Watson for a moment, because I forget if we've discussed this or not, there's just no effing way on God's Green Earth I would trade him. None. I would really, really be firm.

I would apologize profusely for setting an expectation level that he was going to be involved in hiring the GM and the head coach. I would fire Jack Easterby if he's a problem in a second. I mean, Deshawn Watson or Jack Easterby, are you freaking kidding me? That guy would be out of here so fast his head would be spinning. But I would be very clear with Deshawn Watson. You signed a deal in September. I am not trading you. I can't trade you.

I am definitely willing to fire Jack and move on from him. I'm going to apologize to you profusely. I do want your input. I do value your input. I made a mistake by setting an expectation level and then being sort of up against a deadline and needing to move quickly. But I can't trade you because you are one of the best five or six

at the most important position in sports. And I can't replace you. I mean, I might be able to replace you, but the odds are I won't be able to. to replace you. And you, if I trade you, it would be significant damage to the business of the Houston Texans, which I am responsible for. I'm not doing it. And if you can't live with that, then we're going to be at a standstill here, and you're not going to play football for the next four years. I would not trade him. And by the way, I think that is their position. I would agree.

I wouldn't trade him either. I wouldn't move on. But everything you said about trying to make amends, I think you got to start doing, hey, look, we need you. And we love and appreciate you. And the fans do in Houston, your teammates need you.

We'll work on this input thing, and we did mess that up a little bit. Privately, we'd say that. Don't go out and start talking to everybody saying that you want traded and that you're unhappy with us. Let's make this work together. Right.

All right. Thank you for jumping on. Appreciate it. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Have a great day, everybody.