The Kevin Sheehan Show - "He's Hell When He's Well"

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Kevin with more on the Marshon Lattimore trade to open up the show. Then former Saints' quarterback Bobby Hebert jumped on to talk about the trade, Jayden Daniels, and a lot more. Jordan Dajani/CBS Sports was a guest as well with his thoughts on where the Commanders rank in the NFC after the Lattimore trade.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Window Nation is the presenting sponsor of this podcast. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com if you need new windows. Mention my name.

They'll come out and give you a free estimate. Two guests on the show today. And because of one of the guests, my next guest, I'm going to keep this opening segment very short. I've already recorded my interview with Bobby A Bear, long-time Saints quarterback, finished his career in Atlanta. Bobby's been doing radio in New Orleans forever. And I reached out to him. I've had him on the show before to come on to talk about not only the Latimore trade, but also Jaden Daniels because they are huge LSU people in New Orleans.

I just finished recording this interview. It was long. but I didn't want to edit it because I thought it was so good. He has always been such a great guest, has such a great memory, has so many fond memories of playing games against the great skins teams of the 80s and early 90s. We talked about a lot of different things. I think you're going to enjoy it, so I will get to it here very quickly. I do want to mention that he's already given me the quote of the day,

and I'll probably use this as the title to today's show. He said about Marshawn Latimore, quote, he's hell when he's well, closed quote. Marshawn Latimore is a true number one corner, an elite corner. But his problem, as we talked about on yesterday's show, is that he's not always available. He has missed 19 of the last 44 Saints game. and that's the risk with this trade, a trade that Paul did not like.

He sent me a note. Kevin, they paid too much for Latimore. Draft picks are gold and the players are cheap. Latimore is expensive and he misses too many games. I'm disappointed in Adam Peters. By the way, Adam Peters spoke today, held a press conference to discuss the trade. And then Dan Quinn spoke as well and I'm going to play. an exchange actually, a very short exchange between J.P. Finley and Dan Quinn from Quinn's

press conference here in a moment. Paul's not the only person that seemed a bit disappointed in the trade, seemed to think it was too expensive. Look, I discussed this yesterday and I'll net it out. The risk is injury. If he's not injured and he plays the significant majority of games, this was not a good trade, this was a great trade, because for, in essence, a third round pick and the lesser of their third round picks, they kept the third rounder from Philly, which came from Miami, which right now looks like it will be a very high draft choice. They gave them the Saints their own third round pick, which is looking like a much later in the third round pick. And then when you take the fourth and the sixth rounder, and then you got a fifth rounder back from the Saints, which should be looking like a much later in the third round pick. be a very high fifth round pick. You're basically talking about, you know, a late third round pick for a true number one corner. If he turns out to be healthier in Washington than he's been

recently in New Orleans, this isn't a good trade. It's a steal. And in terms of the expense, he's got two years left on his deal that are non-guarantee. at roughly 16 to 16 and a half million. The cap hit is greater than that, but that's the actual money. Look for the team to restructure that contract, probably add a year or two to it, to get a lower cap hit in 25 and 26. The cap hit in 24 is irrelevant. First of all, there's only about $700,000 left on the contract for this year because New Orleans renegotiated and resubstated and restructured it before the season started to lower their own cap hit. And Washington's got all the cap space that you could need for even a big contract.

But it's a great trade if he ends up being a healthy and available player. And I think it's a good trade in the moment because I think it's totally worth the swing. They've got all that draft capital. They've acquired that draft capital in deals with Jahan Dotson. in a deal that sent a player to New Orleans earlier in training camp. In August, they sent their defensive tackle John Ridgeway and got a sixth rounder from New Orleans. So the sixth rounder that they sent back to the Saints was already the Saints pick. So I just think that this team right now thought in a way in which I don't think it was guaranteed for them to think, you know,

in terms of recalibrating the recalibration year, and going for it at 7 and 2, even though that's not the way Adam Peters described it. He described it as we're always going to be looking to improve our team. Well, you know, and if there's a great player out there that we, you know, have a chance to get, we'll always look to add that player. Well, they didn't look to add any of those kinds of players legitimately during a free agency, free agency period, excuse me, where they had all that cap space, and there were players out there.

They decided to go with short-term deals, with the exception of a couple of players, because they were looking at year one differently than they were going to look at year two and year three, because they didn't believe that they'd be in the position they're in now, which is seven and two, and fighting for a division title, and perhaps a very high seed in the NFC playoffs. but I understand if you're concerned about his availability, and if you end up being right, I'm not going to change my position. I'll feel good about a third for the chance that you were getting a number one true elite corner in terms of visibility and production because they're hard to find.

And go try to find one in the third round of the up. upcoming draft. By the way, something else that Peters talked about was he just talked about in looking at the draft and looking at the free agent opportunities that this player now was a player that perhaps they would not be able to find in free agency or in the draft. Not guaranteed, that's for sure. All right, I wanted to play this quick exchange between J.P. Finley and Dan Quinn. And then I'll talk about that and then we'll get to Bobby A Bear. As part of the Dan Quinn follow-up to Adam Peters, he was answering questions about Marshawn Latimore.

Here's one that came from JP. How much will the Latimore acquisition maybe allow you guys to do some stuff that you've been limited on so far? You're definitely barking up the right tree. So the answer from Dan Quinn wasn't really an answer, but if you were watching his answer on their YouTube channel, I came away anyway thinking Dan Quinn and Joe Whit Jr.

feel like they just got a guy that will allow them to do things defensively that they haven't been able to do all year. Or if they've done them, they haven't been able to do them in a comfortable environment. When you have a number one cover corner, you can do so much more on pass downs

and on rundowns. On pass downs, you can be more aggressive going after the quarterback because you can play man-to-man coverage behind it. Even if you're playing zone behind it, it still allows you to be more aggressive in going after the quarterback. Now, they have been at times, and I think they've actually improved their pass rush. But when you have a number one who can take out the other team's number one wide receiver, and by the way, in this case, Benjamin St. Juice moves to his spot, more befitting, I think, of his overall ability, and that is covering a team's number two receiver. Sanra still, more likely than not,

moves to the slot. Quinn did answer, or was asked that question, didn't really answer it. He said, I'm not going to give away everything, but yes, that's the plan, you know, to have Sanry still move to the slot. Latimore cover a team's number one and have St. Juice and maybe, you know, Noah I, number one, out there as well, although he's. been more of their slot guy with San Ristold on the outside. Look, I'm not expecting him to just cover the number one on every single play, but when you decide on pass downs to be more aggressive with blitzes, you now can play more man coverage. You can feel more comfortable in any coverage behind it. That's number one. Number two is their biggest weakness is run defense. Now you can

commit somebody more consistently to the box to stop the run because you've got guys that can cover man to man. You certainly have one. You know, that in its most simplistic kind of football, you know, discussion about what a number one corner provides, I just gave you. They're obviously able to give us a lot more in terms of what he allowed them to do defensively. But you know, basic stuff, it allows you to commit more to the box against the run. It allows you to be more aggressive against the pass. And so I will say this. It's not like they haven't been aggressive at times in their pass rush.

They just were more vulnerable behind it if they didn't get home. It's not like they haven't committed more to the box. There were several eight-man boxes on Sunday against the Giants, and the Giants ran it anyway. But remember when Washington committed to the box against Baltimore, how Lamar Jackson shredded their secondary. That's really the perfect example, right? The Baltimore game, where they committed to stopping the run, you know, in the first half especially, walking an eighth man into the box. You know, sometimes even borderline nine in the box.

And what did Baltimore do? They threw over top of it and they threw to almost anybody they wanted to throw because Washington didn't have the coverage capability. So that's what he allows you to do. Let's hope he's on the field enough to do it. All right, Bobby A Bear next after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, prize picks is the place to go to for daily fantasy sports. I have the prize picks app. I'm one of the over 10 million members at prize picks where billions of dollars are awarded

in winnings. Prize picks has made daily fantasy sports accessible to everybody. You just pick more or less on at least two players and their projected stats for a shot to win up to 100 times your cash. Yes, you can now win up to 100 times your money on prize picks with as little as four correct picks. Add to that, prize picks is the only real money daily fax. fantasy platform with an injury insurance policy. So your lineup stay in play even if one of your

players gets hurt. Prize picks puts its members first, so all withdrawals are fast, safe, and secure. When my picks hit, I can get my money in as quickly as 15 minutes. Sign up today and get $50 instantly when you play $5. You don't even need to win to receive the $50 bonus. It's guaranteed. Price picks is the best way to win real money this football season. Make your picks in less than 60 seconds and turn your sports opinions into real money all season long on prize picks. This coming weekend, two more thans that I like. I like Najee Harris more than 62 and a half yards rushing against Washington's struggling

run defense. But in the same game, I like Zach Ertz more than 32 and a half yards. in receptions against a Pittsburgh defense that has given up plenty of yards to tight ends this season. Download the app today. Use Code Sheehan to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Again, download the app today and use code Sheehan to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. So, guys, if you're like me and you've basically been, buying and wearing the same type of underwear for years, in my case, boxer briefs, same brand, same type for a long time. Well, not anymore for me. I want to tell you about skims for men,

something I've discovered recently, the softest underwear I've ever worn. I got a few pairs of the five-inch boxer briefs so comfortable, no matter what you're doing, from sitting in a chair in your office to working out, they are so comfortable. They don't bunch up. They were made to recover from every stretch. The fabric is cool to the touch, and it just seems to mold to your body and never loses its shape. This is so different from the synthetic feeling I used to get from what I used to wear. Skims is made with an undeniable soft mid-weight cotton that allows you to breathe. Skims for men. It comes in multiple colors, multiple sizes. Shop skims, men's at skims.com.

Let them know I sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select my show in the drop-down menu that follows. That's skimsmen's at skims.com. Select podcast in the survey and select my show, the Kevin Sheehan show, in the drop-down menu that follows. Window Nation's got a great deal going on this month, 50% off on all windows plus zero percent interest for five full years. If you've been thinking about new windows, get them now before the cold weather arrives. Experts say heating costs are going up again this winter as much as

23% depending on where you live. Wind Donation's got the best insulated windows you can buy. More of the heat you're paying for stays inside your home. Windonation's got over 33,000 five-star reviews on Google. You won't go wrong, I promise you. Great company, great product, great offer. It starts by calling them at 86690 Nation or going towindonation.com, mentioning my name, they'll schedule a free in-home estimate, so you've got nothing to lose.

They'll schedule it for a time that's convenient for you. They'll be in and out of your home in an hour or less. 50% off on all windows, 0% interest for 60 months. 86690 Nation, window nation.com. All right. Joining me right now is Bobby A. Bear, long-time NFL quarterback. Actually, one of my favorite quarterbacks during that era in the 80s and the 90s, led the Saints to their first ever playoff game in 1987. He played in Atlanta as well to end his career, had a lot of games against Washington during that era, played at RFK when I've had

Bobby on the show previously. He loves to talk about some of the games that he played up here in Washington against those great redskinned teams. But that's not why I'm calling you today. You know how bad we've been for the last 25, 30 years, but this team is so much better, Bobby. Jaden Daniels is a part of it. You know his game. You guys are huge LSU people down there. But I'm calling you today to ask you about Marshawn Lattimore and what you think Washington's getting in the trade for the four-time Pro Bowl cornerback. Yeah, the fans love their team, and it's a shame it's taken this long.

They remember the Joe Gives heydays, and I remember going against arguably the greatest Redskins cornerback, now the Washington commanders, in Darrell Green. I can tell you right now, Marshawn Lattimore, is going to be the best quarterback that Redskins have seen, or should say the commander says, since Darrell Green. And when I look at Marshawn Latimore,

now this is one position group in the same history. They have not had the best or even a handful of cornerbacks that you want to brag on or you want to write about. But Marshawn Latimore is the best cornerback in Saints history. Wow. And that's not a pingual. That's just what he accomplished.

Now, I'm sure, you know, to be held accountable, you have to be available. And will more Sean Latimore be available? I think going to a winning team in a winning atmosphere, you know, he's out of Ohio State, that all of a sudden his hamstring is going to feel a whole lot better. And, you know, it's one of those things where our players are so highly skilled. And, you know, you might be dealing with something. do you play through it. But the only negative as of late, the injuries have followed up,

and it started with week one in 2022 season. He's played in just 24 of a possible 43 games. You know, in 22, he had missed 10 games, which is a significant injury. He had a lacerated kidney. And then last year, he had suffered a high ankle sprain in week 10 and missed the remainder of the season. Yeah, a lot of the fans and even the organization

that challenged him that he could have played at the end of the first. season and come back from that high ankle sprain. But other than that, no, he's hell when he's well. And Sean Payton viewed him. And it was ironic. If you look, it was an outstanding draft in the 2017 draft. And the Saints picked a lot of more number 11 pick overall in 2017. They were getting ready to pick Patrick Mahomes.

Then Andy Reid moved ahead. And the Chiefs ahead of the Saints. So they're either going to go with Latimore. or with Marta, Lattimore, R with Patrick Mahomes, with that 11 pick, and then the chief got Mahomes, so they went ahead and got Lattimore. And he's put his skin to the wall. He immediately fortified the secondary. Look at the rookie intercepted five passes on his way to be coming,

give us to a rookie the year to earn Pro Bowl honors. So he's been consistently asked, if you look at it, to shadow the opposing team's top-wide receiver. and he's really excelled at that. That's why he was rewarded in 2021, a five-year, almost $98 million contract, then made him one of the highest paid defenders in NFL. But no, he's never been a weak link. For instance, when you look at, you know, within the division, NFC South,

and you've heard of Mike Evans. Yep. Well, they went against one another more than basically two handful of times, and Mike Evans only got the best of them one time. And, you know, they also had Chris Godman who ended up having big games against the Saints. But Mike Evans, Lattimore was able to check him. And I can see Lattimore checking and hanging in with like C.D. Lamb,

when they would play Dallas. Because if he's ready to roll, he is a highly skill set. And like I said, the best cornerback in St. History, in the franchise of history. Bobby, so when Kansas City traded up in that, draft. And I think they traded up with Buffalo. I think it was Buffalo that had that pick right before New Orleans. You can correct me if I'm wrong on that one. But they were trading in front of New Orleans because the Saints, even with Drew Breeze, were going to

take Patrick Mahomes. Right. Then it's just coming from Sean Peyton. So it ain't no BS. No, even though they had the great Drew Breeze and Drew Reeves continues to play, you know, you always have to prepare for the future, and no, then Andy Reed, you know, things get leaked out, and he said, oh, the thing, we got to go ahead. We've got to jump the thing, so we're going to get Patrick Mahomes. So that's what went down, and the rest is history. Look at Pat Mahomes.

Look at the 21st Century's, then the Patriots, and then they kind of pass the charge now to the Chief, and, you know, Mahomes had a big part of that. And we all know about Jay Daniels around here. He comes to Arizona State plays. for LSU, wins the Heisman trophy,

and he's about as good as it gets. You know, we were fortunate around here when you have Joe Burrell, and then you

had Jane Daniels, and, no, I think it's a window of opportunity I take advantage of and, there are a lot of

big with Jane Daniels fans around here, and, so he has that difference maker. That's the difference to where you're relevant.

I'm not saying, you know, all of a sudden Washington's going going to win the Super Bowl, but they have a chance, and they have a chance because you've got to

to get to the post, season and Jane Daniels, that's what he brings to the table. And I think Washington realized we get a guy on the defensive side of the ball. They got a defensive head coach. He knows about Lattimore and stuff. And I'd be shocked if Lattimore does not have success at the highest level. I mean, by success, I don't know about first team all pro, but definitely a pro bowl caliber. All right.

So I want to come back to Jaden in a moment, but you know, you said he's hell when he's well. So you went through his injuries. Do you think he's injury prone? No, I just think last rate of kidding. I don't know that. This is bad luck because he wasn't heard at the beginning.

Now, sometimes, you know, you question a bunch of players from the league, oh, my hamstring. You know, a little soft tissue injuries and stuff. And sometimes you have to be immature and be a pro. And even if it's not going well with the team,

you don't want to be just grunnel and a bad influence in the locker room. but I think by Lattimore is a perfect fit. Him to go in a winning atmosphere right now where they have in Washington, he would excel in that. For instance, if he was going another division opponent for Washington, he was going to the Giants, I would say not so much. But I think with the white leadership around him,

because he's self-spoken, he really doesn't want to talk to the media. You know, you think he's shy, and I don't know how he is in the locker room, but he's not a flamboyant guy. that not only think Washington expects him to be the defensive team captain or anything. They're just telling them, do your damn job and shut down the number one opponent receiver. So he definitely has that skill set. I mean, in watching him from afar, he always appeared to be, you know, competitive as hell, tough as hell.

Is he a guy that Washington just takes because they don't have a number one corner? I mean, the closest thing to a number one corner they've had, you know, you went back to Darrell Green, may have been DeAngelo Hall here for a few years, who actually, he played very well here for a few years, probably better here than he did anywhere else. But is he a guy you just stick on the number one on an A.J. Brown or a CD Lamb, and you have him travel? Without a doubt, you know, you don't want to be 100% that way. But you can mix it up, but no, he can take on that responsibility.

and there's not too many guys like that. You know, he kind of reminds me very similar, looking, he's traveled. And, you know, these wide receivers and, you know, highly skilled cornerbacks, they could be flamboyant or might be viewed as disgruntled, Jalen Ramsey. Wouldn't you say Jailen Ramsey was pretty good?

Yeah. But look, I didn't have to travel. So though he has that ability, and he's tough. No, he could tell you know, some cornerbacks, don't want to tackle. No, he's a good tackler when you put him in run support. So, no, he's an all-around corner.

He's strong. He has good length. He wants to challenge the receiver. You know, he'll come and play bump and run. The only time at times, sometimes he gets disinterested or boring, I've witnessed when he hasn't had his best of games is because, man, I'm way better in that receiver I'm covering. And then kind of get lack of days ago and maybe do too much.

and then, you know, get beat that way. But, you know, he very seldom gets targeted. A lot of times they go against the other guy. Right. And that was even the case with Paulson and Devo. You know, Paulson & Devo was the one that was getting picked on and getting all the penalties. So, no, if you look at number of targets and the receptions, he gives up.

No, I'll tell you, a lot of more as far as maybe not a household name because he's playing in New Orleans as far as the fan bases, But as far as the GMs and the football people, they know who Latimore is and they know how good he can be. And they still think that he has something left in the tank. Washington does. And I do too. I'm not saying that you give him a long-term deal the next five years, but I think he contributed the rest of this season and well into next year, if not beyond looking at 25, even 26 season.

I wouldn't necessarily go beyond that. But for right now, where Washington's at and 24th, and 26. I'd be surprised if Baltimore is not the best cover guy for Washington the next two and a half seasons. Did you like the trade from the Saints' perspective?

Well, the Saints had to get something for them. You know, you're still going to have to eat a lot of money. I want something to count like $30-something million against the salary cap. But yeah, I think that's kind of the going rate, the value. I think it was fair. When you were getting

a third round pick, fourth round pick, and then the sixth, and then Washington's getting Lattimore in a fifth round. So I think that's kind of the market value, you know, even better than, you know, to Jailen Ramsey do as late. And, you know, always bring up Jailen Ramsey because, you know, people view him, you know, here he was, you know, I would say it's a solid hall about what the Saints got, but you've got to give up something to get something. And you look when the Rams traded Jailen Ramsey to Miami in March of last year,

I think it was for a third-round pick and then a little used tight-in called Hunter Long. So I think right now the Saints are definitely with the salary cab issues they have in rebuilding that the draft pick. They said they wanted to get something for him because this was even in the offseason as far as trying to work out a deal so he could be tradable and it finally came to fruition. But when you look at Latimore, I mean you could, I mean, how he should be able to play immediately,

like put in a position where, you know, I want you to shut down this guy. And like I said, he definitely has that skill set. And, you know, I look at Rams, he was a 28 years old at the time of his trade, the same age as Lattimore. So, yeah, you want to always have the young guys. And, you know, whenever you sniff in 30, especially like a running back or even when you've got to run,

like a high price, a defensive backer. a corner that, you know, where can we get out of him now? But I think you definitely two, two and a half years, maybe three, that a lot of more could be that top corner of Washington. All right. One more on him. You had mentioned that he's soft-spoken. Is he a well-like teammate? Were there, was he a good, you know, locker room guy? Give me something on that part of him. We don't know anything about him from up here. Well, at times, I don't know, the Ohio State prima don't know, the Ohio State prima don't know, Michael Thomas.

You know, sometimes not necessarily good in the locker room, but the players that play with them, like Cam Jordan, no, I don't think they ever had a problem with Whitelow. Sometimes I think the fans get frustrated because, as of late, that you're unbelievable, but you're not available. You know, like I said, starting with that week one and 22 season, and he's only played 24 to possible 43 games. And when he's played in those games, no, he wins.

He excels at a high level. Like, for instance, if you look like just this year, he's given up only what 12 catches on 22 targets in coverage this season. They just don't go his way. They said, well, it's kind of going away like from Revis Island. You know, Dorel Revis or Dionne Sanders. I'm not saying Dion Sanders, but, you know, let's beat somebody else.

I like our matchups better there than going constantly after Lattimore. You just mentioned a corner you went against. Who was the best corner you ever won against? Daryl Green or Dion? Oh, it was Dionne. Washington had won the Super Bowl, and Eric Martin and I probably wanted Daryl Green's poorest games. We burned them.

I could have over 100 yards against him because Aaron Martin was so strong. You know, Darryl Green was coming up and challenging him. and, you know, I mean, Charles Manley, Dexter Man, so they're rushing the past. I knew the ball had to cover my hands, out of my hands, and so Eric Martin would just kind of club him almost toss them out of way because Marshall Mountain was a lot bigger than General League. Yeah, of course. I'm not as fast. I mean, you know, Delaware's one of the fastest football players in the history of the game.

But I just throw a quick slant and he would get the yards after the catch, the yak and stuff. So I would say the best ever, though, and I might be one of the few players. players that could say this, I'd have to investigate it. But in a real NFL game, actually, through Deon's a interception and a touchdown. So we played Atlanta. I thought I had a touchdown pass one time. I don't know how, to this day, how Dion intercepted that pass. And now he was baiting me, and he kind of tugged in the receiver's jersey a little bit.

I thought I had a touchdown. He ended up with an interception. And then when we played Dallas when I was with Atlanta with the Falcons, and they had just won this school. You know, they got Troy Aeman, Michael Irvin, and all that crew. And we were ahead. So I knew they were going to blitz.

I told June Jones, put Dion at receiver. I know they come and they play man to man. Whoever's covered Dion, I know they can't cover him. So all I did was getting a shotgun, really just set my feet, and just get the ball on my hands, depending on the lever. He was going to throw, like, in-cutter or a quick-out. And he didn't want to get beat inside the Dallas defender. So I hit Dion.

in the flight, I threw it about eight yards, and he's high stepping for about 80 yards. That's a great opportunity to play with a guy like Dion and know what an unbelievable quarterback is and to throw both an interception and touchdown at the NFL level. You know what? I just found the box score for the game that you were talking about against Darrell Green. I remember this game. You guys were really good. It was 88. The game was at RFK. The skins were really good. You know, one of those late afternoon, four o'clock starts. And Eric Martin, 10 catches 146 yards in a touchdown.

Well, Darrell Green was gardening, and we were able to exploit that. And I thought we had the game on. Never forget it in. You know, the great Martin Anderson Pro Football Hall of Fame. The field was kind of like an RFK. It was kind of like a cow pastor. Yeah. So Martin Anderson, we thought we're going to win this game. We're going to have a walk-off field goal,

and then what happened, Dexter Manly ended up spitting in Jim Dembrowski's face. And, you know, they always catch you the next time, and so all of a sudden, DeMbrowski, like, swings out, so they throw a personal foul penalty. I go, Dumbril, what are you doing? He's setting you up.

You cannot retaliate like that, because, you know, they didn't see what Dexter Manley did. So we had a penalty. So Martin has to kick a long field goal at the end, and he slipped with his plant foot, and he ended up missing it, and then we lost that game. I think it was 20-some, 20-some. If I could recall what?

Good memory. Good memory. 27-24. So we didn't win in overtime, yeah. Yeah, Morton Anderson missed one at the end, exactly. After Chip Lohmiller had kicked a field goal to give Washington the lead. By the way, Washington was the defending champ that year. They had won the Super Bowl the year before.

And that was in that particular season, one of the last games they really won. They lost five of their last six after that and missed the postseason. Won't. Yeah. And I think you guys went to the playoffs that year. Was that the first? Well, no, no, that was here. Think about this because there was one last wild card game.

Right. You know, we were 10 and 6 and didn't make the playoffs. Oh, that's right. You went to the playoffs the year before because you were the quarterback for the first ever Saints playoff team, if my memory serves me, Gregory. Yeah. Yeah, in 1987. Right.

We went 12 and 3. That was the strike season, so they had 15 games instead of 16. We went 12 and 3, and we won 9 games in Earl now with the great Archie Manning. you know, that name Manning. Yep. The best he ever went in the Saints uniform was 8 and 8. So not only did we go 12 and 3, we won nine games in a row in 87. We got waxed by the Vikings and 87.

And they were just better than us. And then they went on the road and won at San Fran. Yeah. And then they played, I think it was raining in Washington, and the Redskins beat the Vikings. That's right. I want to say to go to the Super Bowl. Yep.

So, yeah, we were amongst – that's when the NFC had, like, 20 teams. I mean, at 20 teams. But five teams better than any AFC team. Like, for instance, in the 88 season, like the Broncos, you know, they're kind of representing the AFC and John Elway in the Super Bowl. We beat them 42 to nothing. Yeah. Well, we crushed Denver, and that's another one of my claim to things. And it's kind of Lamar Jackson, and I was glad when the Giants finally beat him.

I want to say he had beaten the NFC teams like 11. straight games. I might be one of those trivia things. I think I have the NFL record when you cross in, you know, AFC, NFC, I won 20 straight games against an AFC opponent. Really? And in the 20th, and in the 21st game,

we lost to the Buffalo Bills. And we all know that's when Buffalo was going to the two more than four straight seasons in a row. So, yeah, that was like late 80s, early 90s. That was my hey, David. I never forget this. We only won one division in time. of the NFC West in 1991, we were 11 and 5.

And the reason why in that year, if somebody was the 49ers, they'd have a down year. But the other years, we won 12 games twice, 12 games in 87, 12 games in 92. But the damn 49ers were going 14 and 2, you know, with Joe Montana. And, you know, Steve Young, thinking over. So it was like, I don't know, kind of the wrong division. You know, look at it. I look how weak the NFC South is, or as Ben as of late.

But that was never the case with the 49ers. But you think you get to double-digit wins, I'm sure. Right now, you're with 17 games. 10-and-6 is good with 16, but 10-and-7, you still should be a playoff team if you hit double-digit-win. Do you know that Gibbs missed the playoffs twice going 10-and-6? You know, all those years of making the playoffs and the bad years for why, Washington during those years, 10 and 6 in no playoffs, twice.

Yeah, I think they end up adding a wild card team to, you know, more is better, whatever. And I think you have to make your team successful. Even at 10 and 7, I think, because you know how the parity in the league and everyone, a number of teams are kind of hovering around 500. Right. You think you're a fan base, if you get to double-digit, you should be in the postseason. You know, the year that you guys lost to the Saints, lost to the Falcons, excuse me, and Chris Miller at home, I think you would have come, because Atlanta came to Washington the following week, and that was the 91 skins. I think it's the best Super Bowl team of all time. I think it's the best football team, NFL team of all time, the 91 skins. But would you guys have gone to Washington or Detroit the next week? Do you remember? I don't remember, like I said, I know we're 11 and 5, and it was so frustrated.

You know, you've got to win the postseason. We beat Atlanta twice in the regular season, but you know, Andrews come into play? Yeah. Our two-starred in cornerbacks for all the games. Toy Cook had broke his arm. He's a cornerback from Stanford. And then Vince Buck, a other starting cornerback had broke his neck. And then all of a sudden had backed up cornerbacks, and Mike Hayes and Chris Villa.

them, they just burn us. Because if we scored in the 20s, and we had the Dol Patrol, we were going to win the game. Yeah. You know, we have methodically control, always win time of possession. You know,

always view how, you know, Coach Morrow would always tell us from an officer's perspective that, look, if our defenses were there, so we should hold an opponent to 17 points or less. And shame on our offense

if we don't win that type of game. And then he emphasized to me, Bobby, we, you know, we score, we get to 23, low 20s, we're going to win. And that's how we get a double-digit win. So that was kind of a strategy, not like we're going to score in every possession. And a lot of times, I was either 91 or 92. I was the least sack quarterback in the NFL. I never get to. We finally lost to the bills.

I've gotten sacks, I think, like 12 times in 15 games, and then the 16 games, and then the 16 game we lost. the Buffalo got sacked three times. So I got, like, sacked 15 times and 16 games. That's how I've seen these young quarterbacks. You got... You got rid of it. You got rid of it. Yeah, I said, I never got sacked five or six times in my life.

Right. You know, a lot of times, you know, the fans say, oh, they're not blocking for the quarterback. No, but the ball has to come out your hand. But then if you got the skill set, like, you can extend plays like Jane Daniels. You know, I always... You know, I always, one of the reasons I really liked you, by the way, I just figured it out. If you guys had beaten the Falcons, because the Falcons, you were a division winner and the Falcons were a wild card team, if you had won that game, you would have gone to Detroit and Dallas, who beat Chicago, would have come to Washington in the divisional round. Okay.

But instead, Atlanta came to Washington. It's actually a famous game. It was a playoff game and a downpour. And they called it the seat cushion game because at the end of the game, they handed out these seat cushions before the game. And at the end of the game, everybody started throwing them out onto the field. But anyway, that 91 team, I think, is the best. You know, a lot of the analytics post years have said the 91 skins

of the most complete Super Bowl winner of all times. But one of the reasons I always was a fan of yours, and I was rooting for you in that playoff game against Philadelphia that year that the Eagles came in with Reggie White and that whole gang and won. But you were, I don't want to say you were Kurt Warner before Kurt Warner, but you had this, you were tough as hell, you would take big shots, but you just saw it. Like the ball was always coming out. It was always accurate.

and you didn't have the weapons that Kurt Warner had. But I'm curious, have you ever thought about who your comp, NFL comp was? Well, you know, Jim Stanley, I won the U.S.F.L championship in 1983 with the Michigan Panthers. Right. With Anthony Carter, right. Yeah, the University of Michigan. He always had coach, he was a D-Line coach, and he was our head coach. He said I always remind him of Phil Sim.

Okay. You know, the Giants, he says Phil Sands, the modern-day version, I would say that's why I'd share for him, Kurt Cousins. You know, we were like, oh, we did it. They kept Desmond Ritter. But look at a difference that Kurt Cousins has made. And then I even look at who's a legit NFL quarterback, not necessarily his starter. He never won anything at Cincinnati, but he gives him a chance, at least to fight it as Andy Dalton. Yeah.

You know, so I kind of looked at those, like, one thing I knew I was acting with the football, and I wasn't afraid to get hit. And then they used to hit the quarterbacks back in those. Yeah. You know, now you can't land on them. You know, you have Tomahawk chabot on top of your head or you across your face and then picking you up and not laying you down, but landing on you and stuff. And, boy, Phil, that's probably the most frustrated game ever, that Eagles playoff game in 92.

I did unbelievable in the first half, and the second half. I don't know, they made adjustments, and I guess we didn't because, you know, I'm looking at Carl Smith, who's the officer coordinator, I go, Carl, what's up? You know, like, I'm ready to throw. I know, when it's time to throw, there ain't nobody open, and I can't run around like James Daniels. And now he just said, he just said, keep fighting. I said, I'm fighting the assholes.

He just said, keep fighting and try to make something happen. But then they had, you know, Reggie White. Then you literally said, Joyner, look at all of those guys they had. Oh, yeah. It was literally like you count your clock in your head, like 1001, you got to throw it. It wasn't like I could make a sandwich back there in the pocket because the Eagles were coming. You know, people who are listening to this, they just realized that you were one of my favorite quarterbacks back in the day and one of my favorite quarterbacks of the last 10 years because he played here.

is Kirk Cousins. And I still kind of watch Cousins from afar. Obviously, we got a team now, and we got a quarterback here. But I actually think he's been one of the most underrated quarterbacks of the last, you know, many years. Well, and Kurt Cousins has always gambler on himself, and he's been well compensated. Yes, he has been. I sat out a whole year in 1990, just trying to get a million dollars. You know, Jim Finch, we had an old school.

general manager. So we own you. I'm going to pay you what I want. I was a big part of testifying that antitrust lawsuit with the players. It was called Reggie White

and Freeman McNeil and Gil Bird, all those old players. But it was my testimony in front of Judge Doty that Greg Iello, the PR guy with the NFL said we got to settle

with the players now. A Bear is kicking our ass. Remember Gene Upshaw was opening up the champagne at the hotel because, no, we're going to win, and then end up settling with us. And they mean Marcus Allen and getting in that antitrust lawsuit,

the highest compensation, because that's when Al Davis is trying to screw him around with the Raiders and not going to the chief. But, yeah, but Coach Moore had my back. I never went back with the Saints in 91. If Steve Walsh, the University of Miami quarterback was in Dallas and, you know, came to the Saints and John Forkey, a bit of worked out, the same thing I brought it back, but Coach Morrow told us to think that if you don't bring Aber back,

I'm not signing an extension. And, you know, Ricky Jackson and Dome Patrol, they all say, well, A, Bear, you're the difference of us, instead of being a 500 team, instead of going like 8 and 8, well, we're going to be help us win three or four more games. And I always thought I really took that to heart because the Dome Patrol is arguably the greatest lineback in core in NFL history. I would say in the 3-4, now 4-3 going against them, that be the Bears. I mean, when the Bears had Wilburne Marshall end up playing with the Redskins. Yeah. But when they had Wilburne, Wilson, and Mike Singatry,

I remember when Coach Moore just came on board, the Bears were just one of the Super Bowl, they crushed the Patriots. We practiced against the Bears in Pladeville. And I'll tell you, we look like the JV team versus the varsity. They were that good. I said, that's good, I was like, if they were really tackling, I'd be getting killed. I remember Coach Warren, we're doing the inside drill, which is a run drill, and, you know, it's supposed to be like 12 running plays,

and, you know, they don't have defensive backs to run support. But literally, I'm handing off to Don Hill, you, and we're not even halfway about the fourth or fifth play. We both get tackling in the back drill, so Coach Moore had to cut out the drill, and then we're doing even, like, like, teams, and then I'll say, if we were playing the Bears, This is 85. You're talking about the 85 Bears. Yeah. So this is 86 training cats.

Yeah. And so I'm thinking if we're playing the bears right now, how could we – I just hope we can get two first downs in a row. How are we going to score? So then all of a sudden, more turning around, and we end up having that 12 and 3 season in 87. And, yeah, so, you know, you're right, collect. and, you know, those days at all.

And, you know, when I look even Washington, there's a lot of Louisiana flavor there, Doug Williams. Of course. You know, that was exactly, from Zachary. And then a little bit later, Brian Mitchell. Yeah, Brian Mitchell from U.L. Lafayette, you know, and stuff. So, yeah, always is always a big Joe Gibbs fan. I don't know.

I think sometimes he don't get enough credit. He probably gets as much credit for NASCAR that would give him anything. You know, NFL. Well, so let me ask you, and you've already been so generous with your time, per usual, but you talked a little bit about him. You got to see him. I think most people understand in New Orleans how big LSU football is as well. So I'm assuming you're following Jaden a little bit.

What have you thought so far of his first nine games as a pro? Well, Janie Daniels is – should have been the number of an overall pick. I'm not, nothing against Caleb Williams, but Jane Daniels is more polished. He's played more football games. He's more, I would say, NFL-ready quarterback and knows where he's going with the ball

and not just ad-libbing. People don't realize, even though, like, fans would freak out. He's going against the SEC talent, how top SEC defenders thought they'd have the angle on him, and they didn't have the angle. There was one game against Florida. I mean, he was like a magician. Yeah.

And he's got a little bit different style, you know, than Lamar or even Michael Vick. But I think what he has over them overall, people don't realize how a great accurate passer he is. And the touch, and he's worked on that, and he's gotten better. So, no, they hit the lottery. Washington hit the lottery with Jane Daniels. And, no, to me, you know, NFL's hoping two or three quarterbacks can work out. Maybe you're young guys, but it's a lot easier said than done.

But I think Caleb Williams right now kind of wishes he was on James Daniels level. You know what's amazing in watching him is just the poise and the cool. Nothing seems to ever rattle him at all. No, no, he's Joku. He's like Joku. That's kind of sound like Joe Montana. No, he is. He's too cool. He is, and he's tough. People don't really like, he's skinny. Yeah.

Like, I was a big guy. You know, like, I look at my frame and all. I'm like 225 at all. James Daniels, he's fast and he's accurate. But now, hopefully in the NFL, sometimes at LSU, he took some shots. I don't know how he's getting up. I think he's learned to get down a little better. And that's what you need to to last a long time in the NFL. Get what you can.

and get down. But he's all along. He's tough. He's tough as meals. Really enjoyed this. Very much appreciate it. Hope you're well, and it's always good to catch up. Yeah, well, they have a game, a division game, rivalry game against Atlanta comes Sunday. That being the Saints, and they'll look at it, whether the Saints are good and the Falcons are bad or vice versa. That always got them splitting. You always got them splitting.

Yeah, so I think the Saints can upset them. I think Big has got them like a three-point underdog, and they're playing in the dome. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, what's going to happen. But I always get them, you know, splitting. But like the first game, they lost Atlanta. Do you realize Atlanta did they score an officer touchdown in the Saints' loss? Yeah, I know. They scored on special teams, and then the kicker kicked like a 59-yard or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so, yeah, so they'll be interested to see how the Saints, which direction they're going to go right now. Well, how did you feel after the first two games this year when they scored 91 points? I know they beat the Panthers, but we didn't know that Dallas was bad. Yeah, yeah, no, I've always said, I never, as one team I'll never cheer for the cowgirl. You know, we don't either.

there. And, you know, the reason, you know, I went to school in North Louisiana in Nackettish, about 70 miles south of the Freeport, so I'd be at family gatherings, and they would tell me, you know, through marriage, you know, cousins and uncles, oh, wait until you play them cowboys, I go, what? I go, you mean, you get a chair for Dallas. You don't know nobody on Dallas. I'm part of your blood, you know, I get a chair for me.

And then they said, well, Bobby's always talking smack about, you know, Dallas, they must have whipped him. And I said, no, I'll play Dallas. I played Dallas four times, and I got a three-in-one record. There you go. You never beat. I never forget the very first game, God, I was the 89. We put Jimmy Johnson's first game in Troy, and the very first game in the NFL.

We beat them 20 to nothing. Well, 18, 89 was their one in 15 team, right? Yes, their one in 15. Do you know who they beat? they beat Washington with Steve Walt Exactly Yeah People don't realize the great Troy Eggman

The Hall of Fame Right He was 0 and 15 Yeah Walsh won that game Yeah they ended up Jimmy Johnson end up trading him I bet you that Steve Walsh

In that game didn't complete even five passes It was the ugliest game of all time I think it was 13 to 3 was the final. But anyway, yeah. That one, you know, the skins and cowboys during that, you know, heyday of it

being the best rivalry in the NFL, people would say, look, we'll go 2 and 14 if the 2 wins are against the Cowboys. I never felt that way. I'd rather be 14 and 2 and lose 2 to the Cowboys, but the Cowboys got the one that I think they wanted the most

that year, which was beating Washington. And then it didn't take long, right? you know, the next two years later, no, the next year, the next year they were in the postseason, I think, in 1990 for the first time. Yeah. No, 91, 91, 91 they were in the postseason for the first time. Yeah, and you look, Dallas, the prosperity had in the 90s. Oh, yeah.

I think Jerry Jones might sell and sold to the devil if you win another suitable. Or you give up a few billion. I love it. I love it. I love it. I always say it's a great day in America. when the Saints win and the cowgirls lose. Yeah, well.

And, you know, with some Dallas fans, they try and talk smack to them. They go, oh, what about the Saints? I go, what do you talk about? We kicked y'all ass. I mean, when did they put y'all? Exactly. This was so much fun. Really enjoyed it.

And by the way, I think the Saints plus the short number, I think it looks a little fishy. I think the Saints have a shot Sunday, too. That seems right. Yeah, you know, yeah, they have Derek Carr, the only thing Chris Olavis dealing with a concussion. Right. For shoot, he'd being out. New coach, the whole thing. Yeah, you bounce up.

But they're going to play for Coach Rizzi. Right. Coach Rizzi is more like Sean Payton, really emotional. And, you know, I said, well, you could be a special team's coach and be a head coach. Look at John Harbaugh, arguably one of the best coach NFL. That's his background. And he brought up, oh, yeah, Bobby, don't forget, Mark Levy. Look at the success Marv Levy had, and he was in special teams background.

Did you know that Marv Levy was the first ever special teams coach? And do you know who made him the first special teams coach? Well, I'm guessing. Was there Washington? It was, and it was George Allen. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you beat him in the U.S.FL championship game? Yes. No, not the championship in the playoffs.

Oh, okay. Chicago split. Yeah. And they had Greg Landry, the old line. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were truly, you know, he had the Over the Hill gang with Washington or when they lost to the Dolves and the Dollars were undefeated. Well, he had an Over the Hill gang with the Chicago Blitz.

It was one of the hottest things that we were playing in June at Soldier Field when they had artificial turf, and it was like 120-some degrees. But we had a young team, and they were all old. and I think I threw like five-threads down pass against him. And remember once I was right before half, I escaped out the pocket, and I hit Derek Holloway up about a 50-yard bomb, and I got knocked out on the sideline. And George Allen says, like,

man, didn't I tell you all to keep Hebert in the pocket? How do you get A-Bair out of Hebert? Hebert. Well, but, so there was never any, the first special teams coach, ever. George Allen emphasized special teams. Nobody really did it before him, and he was the first guy to hire a coach, just a coach, special teams. And it was Marv Levy, and he was the special teams coach on that Super Bowl team that lost to the dolphins in 72.

Well, a small world, I remember, I even have, I remember the little red skinned helmet, the yellow helmet, and then they had, with the R. Like the war, yeah, with the R on, exactly. Yeah. But I never forget, and not that you bring that up, we had a coach with the Michigan Panthers, George Dixon. Mm-hmm. And he was there with Vince Lombardi, a staff.

When Bix Lombardi left, Green Bay, he went to Washington, and then he said he'd always tell the running back, so I remember, you know, and at one running back, he couldn't even remember his players. And he played in Michigan State ago, how do you remember his plays then? and he'd say, Mr. You've got the memory of a gnat.

And he'd always get on him. And he'd always say, and he should bring out some old film. He goes, let me tell you about Larry Brown. He goes, you know, George Dixon, ballhead, I never forget him. He's always chewing cigars and all. But Larry Brown, he'd always be bragging on Larry Brown with Washington. Well, he was the MVP. He was the league offensive MVP in 72.

But here's something, just to tie it. back to your guy that was with Lombardi. You know, Lombardi coached in Washington in 1969, and then he passed away over the summer prior to the 1970 season. But that helmet that you're talking about, the yellow helmet with the R, was Lombardy's helmet because he wanted the helmet to resemble the yellow helmet with the G for the Packers. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah, and that's why they...

And then George Allen came in, and they... In fact, the name of the family is the Wetzels. Blackie Wetzel was a Native American who designed the logo that we had forever until we lost the name a couple of years ago and the logo, and that's still a sore subject around here. Anyway, this was a blast. I really appreciate it. Great catching up.

Thanks a lot. Yeah, thanks for having me on. And I tell you what, there's a lot of Louisiana fans. The States are doing so bad day cheering for Washington. A lot of, yeah, hope they win the NFC East and for sure just with Dallas. Yep. Well, they're really good on offense, and he's been spectacular.

I mean, he's a legit MVP candidate. He's in the running as a rookie, which is amazing. Yeah, he's not only a rookie the year, but yeah, MVP can it, like you said. Yeah. Bobby, thanks. Appreciate it. All right.

Okay, talk you later. Okay, bye-bye. Bobby A Bear, everybody. He is spectacular. As a guest, I enjoyed that. One more segment on the show, Jordan DeJani from CBS Sports. We'll get his thoughts on the Latimore trade and we'll talk some NFL as well. That, after these words, from a few of our sponsors.

Is there anything better when you're a football fan than this time of year? It seems like there are games on around the clock. It's a changing time of year. The weather gets chillier. The leaves start to change color. And then those leaves, they fall from those trees. And they clog up your gutters. Don't miss the game because you're climbing a ladder to clean out your gutters.

You know, whether you're tired of unclogging gutters or you don't even know what your gutters look like, it's time for a permanent solution you can depend on with leaf filter. Right now you can save up to 30% off your entire purchase at leaf filter.com slash Kevin. I'm not a big do-it-yourself guy, in part because doing something wrong like cleaning gutters can end up costing you a lot more in the end. An investment in leaf filter is an investment engineered to protect your whole home. clogged gutters aren't just a nuisance

they can cause extensive water damage protect your home from flooding roof damage rotting siding foundation issues and more do it yourself and store bought solutions may be cheaper up front but they can cost you more in the long run don't miss the game

protect your home and never clean out gutters again with leaf filter America's number one gutter protection system schedule your free inspection and get up to 30% off your entire purchase at leaffilter.com slash Kevin. That's a free inspection and up to 30% off at L-E-A-Filter.com slash Kevin. See representative for warranty details. Hey, everybody.

This episode is brought to you by Manscaped, the global leader in men's lifestyle and grooming. Every man knows the unbeatable feeling of a fresh barbershop shave. Now what if I told you you no longer have to wait weeks or even months between appointments to experience it? Introducing Manscapes' newest innovation, the Chairman Pro Electric Foil Shaver, the game-changing tool that brings the luxury of a professional shave right into your home. Whether you're after that daily silky smooth finish or prefer to maintain a rugged 5 o'clock shadow, the Chairman Pro Electric Foil Shaver is your go-to for,

precision and style every time. Head over to manscape.com and join the over 11 million men worldwide who trust Manscaped by using code Kevin DC for 20% off plus free shipping. So what makes the chairman pro stand out? Well, it's all about versatility and precision. It comes with two interchangeable skin-safe bladeheads. You've got the skin-safe-for-blade foil for that close smooth shave when you're looking to completely clean. And if a clean shave isn't your style, that's okay. Just switch to the skin safe

stubble trimmer to keep your stubble looking sharp and polished. And here's something that's going to make your grooming routine even easier. The chairman pro is waterproof. Yeah, you can use it right in the shower. And the waterproof feature doesn't just make shaving easier. It also simplifies cleanup too. Just a quick rinse under the sink and you're all set. Get the chairman pro today and experience a shave that is as smooth as you deserve. Get 20% off plus free shipping with the code Kevin DC at Manscape.com. That's 20% off plus free shipping with my code Kevin DC at Manscape.com. Go to my bookie.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin DC and my bookie will double your money

with a 100% deposit bonus on your initial deposit. If you're an existing customer coming back, you'll get access to MyBooky. Plus, it's a new loyalty rewards program. You can earn extra cash into your account for just betting. More plays, more wins, more cash in your account, no strings attached. MyBooky.a.g promo code Kevin, D.C. Washington, by the way, a three-point face. favorite over Pittsburgh. The numbers up a half point from where it was. The total in the game is 45 and a half. By the way, Maryland this weekend plays the number one team in America. They

play Oregon for the first time ever out in Oregon. The Terps are 25 point underdogs against the ducks. But they'll take their swing at a number of. one team on the road on Saturday night. All of your college football, all of your NFL up and available at my bookie. And again, use my promo code, Kevin DC to get access to a doubling of your initial deposit if you're a new customer and a reward loyalty program for existing customers. All right. Jumping on with me right now is Jordan DeJannie. Jordan's been covering the NFL for a while now at CBS Sports. We've had Jordan on the show before.

You can follow Jordan on X on Twitter at Jordan, D-A-J-A-N-I. Let's wait a moment before we get to the Marshawn Latimore trade, which you wrote about on CBS Sports yesterday. I just want to start because I haven't talked to you. I don't think since early in the season or maybe before the season began, what have you made of this incredible nine-game start for the franchise here in D.C.? magical, spectacular, whatever fun descriptor you want to use. You know, I knew that Jane Daniels had the potential to be a special player, but I didn't know if he was capable of bringing this franchise out of the dump single-handedly,

and that's what it kind of felt like. You've got to give credit to Dan Quinn and Adam Peters for what they've accomplished as well. It's not Jane Daniels single-handedly, but, you know, this was a team that was much maligned for some of the decisions they made in free agency, you know, adding some older names such as Austin Echler or Bobby Wagner. But here we are, Washington 7 and 2. Their best nine games start since 1996. And Jayden Daniels has the highest completion percentage through a player's first nine career games all time. The few with turnovers in a player's first nine career starts since at least 1991. It's been pretty magical. I think that's the best way to describe it.

Where would you rank them right now in the NFC? You know, I can give you all these advanced numbers because we work with a data scientist by the name is Stephen No. So if we want to talk about projections, final win-loss record, their chances for a Super Bowl, I've got it all in front of me. But, of course, I can't have Washington at number one in the NFC. I think that the Detroit Lions, in my opinion, are the top team in the NFC. And then at number two, you can have an argument, but I'm keeping an eye on the San Francisco 49ers. I know that they're sitting at 500. they're not currently in the playoff picture, but this is a team who has made it a regularity of making the second half run,

and Christian McCaffrey's on the way back. I know that Brandon I, you can suffer a season ending injury, but when we're talking about one of the best office of minds in the league with Kyle Shannon, and I'm not downing the San Francisco 49ers just yet. At the very least, I would have the Washington commanders at number three. And behind them would be the Minnesota Vikings or the Philadelphia Eagles or the Green Bay Packers. All right, let's get to the trade for Marshawn Lattimore yesterday. Will his presence now on that defense, which was struggling, as you know, Jordan, does it give him a better chance to kind of climb the ranks in the NFC?

I think so, yes. And listen, here's the deal. Marshawn Lattimore has not played a full season in multiple years now. He's already missed two games this year with the hamstring injury. But I don't have any, you know, analysis to quantify. this, but I love this trade because it shows you, Adam Peters knows where he is with his team, and he wants to give Dan Quinn everything he can for a run with this special, special quarterback. And with Marshawn Latimore, we're talking about a legitimate talent at

cornerback, still somewhat in the prime of his career, going from one of the most downtrodden locker rooms in the NFL, to arguably the most excited locker room in the NFL, going from two and seven to seven and two overnight. What does that do for a competitor's psyche? What what does it do for a player's momentum and their motivation going to a team like the Washington who, by the way, Adam Schepter reported teams were asking to get dealt to Washington. Imagine telling fans that a couple of years ago. So I think it's great momentum, not just for Marshawn Lattimore, the player, but having a veteran presence in the locker room on the back end, he's absolutely going to be an immediate

impact guy in the secondary. And, you know, I have some stats to prove that. Washington has allowed nine touchdowns compared to two interceptions outside, or zero interceptions, excuse me, outside of the numbers this season. So teams have been able to hurt Washington downfield outside the numbers, and that's where a boundary cornerback like Marshawn Latimore comes into play. What did you think of the price paid? And it's not necessarily a blockbuster, but at the same time, it's not meaningless.

A third, fourth, and sixth, six, four, Lattimore, and a fifth. And I believe that the sixth rounder you're sending to New Orleans was the original pick, right? Wasn't that at roster cut down day for John Ridgway? It was. So, I mean, it wasn't the most cheapest trade in the world. I understand that. But here's the thing. This wasn't like DeAndre Hopkins or Deonté Johnson.

Marshawn Lattimore is not a rental. He's got a couple of more years remaining on his contract. And again, he's not yet 30 years old. So that's why you understand the price was a little bit high. I do think that Washington made what, in my opinion, was probably the move of the trade deadline, because I do think it's going to bolster the defensive side of the ball. He'll certainly help a lot in some of the key matchups they have against teams with good receivers the rest of the way, Jordan. And as you know, they've got two huge games here over the back half of the season against the Eagles, including the first of two a week from tomorrow night at the Lincoln, Philadelphia.

You mentioned the Eagles as a team behind Washington in your discussion of the best teams in the NFC. But just give me a sense of how you see the NFC East playing out the rest of the year. Right. I think you have to give the Eagles credit. This Eagles team is 4-0 following their by week. Jalen Hertz has 12 total touchdowns and zero turnovers since this win streak. You know, Seqaul Barclay is jumping over people backward. He's one of two players across 900 rushing yards so far.

And the other thing is the Eagles defense statistically has been great after the buy as well. I think they lead the league in yards per game allowed, yards per play, sacks. since that week six return to action. But listen, this is a talented team that's going to have to overcome the boneheaded mistakes of their head coach and office of coordinator. I think that their coaching staff cost them something like eight points in that Jacksonville Jaguars game. And the other thing is I can't get the Eagles second half of the season collapsed last year

out of my head. Are they prone to do that? When the losses start piling up, are they going to be able to bounce back? So right now, Philadelphia is absolutely on a hot streak. but when we're talking about a team like the Washington Commanders who is capable of scoring you and hopefully this Marshawn-Ladamor plays addition, or pays immediate dividends, I'm leaning towards Washington. All right.

I'll come back to the rest of the conference and we'll talk a little AFC as well. But let me just ask you, because you did talk about Jaden Daniels a little while ago when I asked you about the team. It's hard not to talk about him. do you view him as a legitimate MVP candidate at this point? I do. I'm such a bad person to talk about MVP odds with because I hate that it's a quarterback award.

Like what I want to do is either give it to Sequan Barclay or Derek Henry or Dexter Lawrence. Like those are my MVP favorites in my opinion. But I mean with Jane Daniels, I think objectively you have to have him as a favorite. And the fact that he's a rookie, I think, you know, works in his favor as well. and him playing for the Washington NFL football team, I think that works in his favor as well because it really takes a special player

to do what he's doing in the situation he is, if that makes any sense, looking at what this Washington franchise has been over the past decade. I mean, we can talk about the stats and the playmaking ability, but for him to suit up against Caleb Williams, the number one overall pick, the only player to hear his name called before

Jay Daniels on draft night, when Jane Daniels was injured with that rib injury, I didn't even think he was going to play. He comes down in front of his home fans, and even though it wasn't the most prolific outing, he throws that game-winning Hail Mary. That just proved that this was almost divine intervention, that he's a special player. So, yeah, I think that everything about him, his aura, his situation, his immediate success at the next level really does play into its favor when it comes to being an MVP candidate.

All right. Let's talk the rest of the league, and you've already kind of given me. me your NFC hierarchy. But let's just stick in the NFC. Give me a team that you haven't mentioned, maybe that you like to make some noise between now and the end of the year and then maybe into the postseason.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and ignore the Atlanta Falcons. Congrats to them. They're going to win the NFC South by default. They're not really making, you know, waves to me, in my opinion. I'm super intrigued by the NFC North. We talked about Detroit, but the Minnesota Vikings. I mean, can the Brian Ford's defense really serve at the best? backbone of this unit while Sam Donald continues to be efficient.

Minnesota has great playmakers. I know that everyone up in the DMB likes Kevin O'Connell as well. The Green Bay Packers, like, I'm not totally out on the Packers just yet. I think they got some work to do on the defensive side of the ball, and shipping off Preston Smith was not in the cards for me at the trade deadline. But Jordan Love, I believe, could be poised for a second half run, so they're a team to keep an eye on. The other team I will bring up that I just seemingly am obsessed with are the

Los Angeles Rams. You know, they're four and four right now, but they have been operating short-handed for the majority of the year. They returned Cooper Cup and Pooka and all of a sudden show why Sean McBade's offense is one of the toughest to defend in the league in prime time against the Minnesota Vikings. They stumbled a bit in that overtime went against the Seattle Seahawks. But one of the most underrated storylines I feel like we're not talking about with the Rams, really, is their young defensive front.

I mean, Jared Verst is probably the favorite to win defensive rookies. year. Byron Young's been fantastic. Braden Fisk, another rookie's been fantastic. Kobe Turner's been really good as well. This Rams' young defensive front is not being talked about at all. And as they continue to get more experience, continue to get more comfortable, I think the Rams are a team to make a late playoff push. But when it comes to contending for a Super Bowl, not really sure about that.

All right. Quickly in the AFC, I mean, the addition of D'Andre Hopkins to the Chiefs, I mean, that's paid off already. There ain't no. Do you see them as the best team in the AFC? Or do you give Baltimore, Buffalo somebody else's shot? Yeah, on behalf of the Tennessee Times, I'd like to apologize to the rest of the NFL world for shipping off the Andre Hopkins to Kansas City for a bag of Frito-laced chips.

That's obviously going to be an incredible addition for the Chiefs. And yeah, I mean, if you're asking you for the favorite in the AFC, listen, the Chiefs aren't blowing out their opponents, but I don't care about that. They're 8-and-no. That's all that matters. I think you could argue they're playing better than they did in the regular season last year. And that's still a team that bounced back and played their best football when it was necessary and ended up hoisting the Lombardi at years end.

So, yeah, of course, I'm going to stick with the Kansas City Chief. The Buffalo Bills are a team that have surprised me. I was wrong in predicting that they would take a step backwards on both sides of the ball, but they're going to win the AFC East with E. We'll see if they can play their best football, much like the Kansas City Chiefs do, in the playoffs. I'm not sure about that just yet. The Baltimore Ravens are a super intriguing team to me. I mean, the offense is led by two MVP favorites with Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry,

another one of the best offseason additions in 2024. But man, that defense has been kind of tough to watch over recent weeks. I know that their cornerbacks have dealt with some injuries. But if the Ravens can kind of clamp down with their past defense, that's a team with legitimate Super Bowl aspirations as well. to be honest with you, Kevin, I don't think the addition of Tredadius White is going to really make waves either. He's not having a good season, not been the same player since that torn Achilles. Nevertheless, the Baltimore Ravens are still a team to watch.

You mentioned the Rams in the NFC, and I'm with you on them in terms of, I actually think they are looking more and more like a playoff team, potentially a division winning team. In the AFC, give me somebody from the back of the pack right now, As you look at that, I've suggested recently that 9 and 8 may get two teams into the postseason in the AFC. Are you buying Cincinnati, the Jets to turn it around? Somebody like that. Give me a team or two that isn't Kansas City, Houston, Buffalo, Baltimore, or Pittsburgh. I would love to buy the Jets.

I was buying the Jets pretty hard before the season. Yeah, I remember. You and me both. At three and six, they had a great win over Houston. and cool. I think they could have played a lot better. I'm not taking them. Here's a team that I'm doing a column for CBS Sports.com right now, looking at the current playoff picture and trying to decipher contenders versus pretenders. And I currently have this team as a quote-unquote pretender, but I don't want to diss them too badly because I feel like

they need to be talked about a little more. How about Jim Harbaugh and the Los Angeles Chargers? I mean, this is the number one scoring defense in the NFL. Justin Herbert is flashed at times. having Greg Roman's offense, it's not going to be predicated on throwing the ball down the field. But Ladd McCawkey looks like to be a slot weapon that's coming into his own. They've been efficient on the ground as well. I know that they've had some okay wins. They've had some bad losses. But the chargers, in my opinion, are definitely a team to watch.

And I'll take it a little bit further. I think Jesse Minter, the defensive coordinator, could be a coaching candidate to watch this offseason as well. Well, there will be several openings. There are two already. who's the next to go in season? Yeah, you know, if I had to pick one coach to be fired in season, and listen, I don't like calling for men's jobs, but part of my gig is trying to predict the future.

I think it could be Matt Iberflus of the Chicago Bears. You could make the argument that Iber Flus wasn't supposed to even have his job entering 20-24. He entered this season out on the hot seat. And, you know, there's been some wins. There's been some losses with Caleb Williams and Romo Dune Day in that big off season that the Bears had. But the bottom line is that the NFC North, we've talked a little bit about it right now.

They are probably the most talented division, and the Bears still have not played a single divisional opponent just yet. Without a doubt, far in a way, the Bears have the toughest remaining schedule in the NFL. And looking at how they played against the Arizona Cardinals last week, how is that to inspire any kind of optimism when it comes to Shane Waldron, Matt Heber Flus, how is the fan base supposed to be excited? So I think that the bears are on thin ice right now. I think that things could go downhill very quickly.

And, you know, with that kind of fan base, with that kind of excitement that they carried into the season, ownership is not going to be happy if they start slipping when the playoff race comes into shape. You don't think McCarthy comes back, right? I do not think Mike McCarthy comes back. The Bears schedule, six of their last eight games are all division games. and as you mentioned against clearly the toughest division top to bottom in football. I love doing this with you. I really appreciate the time.

Thanks so much, Jordan. Hey, Kevin, you're the man. Thanks so much. Jordan DeJani, everybody, from CBS Sports. He writes prolifically all the time. Pretty much has a new NFL story every day at CBSSports.com. You can follow him on X at Jordan, D-A-J-A-N-I. All right.

That is it for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.