The Kevin Sheehan Show - High Road Wentz & Santana Moss

Episode Date: May 20, 2022

Kevin opened with his thoughts on Carson Wentz' response to Jim Irsay saying that the 'Wentz era in Indy was a mistake'. Santana Moss was a guest on the show to talk Commanders' present and Skins' past. Jason Samenow/Capital Weather Gang was on to talk about the expected record-setting May heat this weekend. Somehow Kevin and Jason turned the conversation into a history lesson on DC's biggest snowstorms. Also on the show, Eddie C. with his Preakness picks.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. This review via Apple Podcasts from SF Skins 56, quote, I am a lifelong Washington fan, born and raised in New Mexico,

basically cowboy country. I really enjoy the show and all the great information. Listen daily on my work commute. Thanks for the great show. Thank you, SF Skins 56. He rated us five stars, which we appreciate and wrote a quick review for those that haven't done it. If you have time and you don't mind, rate us and review us, especially on Apple or anywhere else you listen to this podcast that allows you to rate and review us. It is huge for us when you do that.

On this show today, Santana Moss will join us, and we will talk to Santana about the team, about the offense in particular. get his thoughts on Jahan Dotson, and I'm sure the conversation will lead to many other places as well. For those of you in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, get ready. A brutally hot weekend, record-setting heat. Jason Samanow, part of the Capitol Weather Gang, is going to be a guest on the podcast. As will Eddie C, our Triple Crown expert analyst and handicapper, Eddie C will join us later in the show as well to talk about tomorrow's Preakness at Pimlico. I want to start with this quick tweet that I got from my man, Disco at Disco 5.

Kevin, comma, Jim Ursay and Chris Ballard have ripped Carson Wentz at every turn. Your take is interesting because you have eviscerated Snyder for smear campaigns he's done in the past. But somehow you think Ursa's smear campaign is not. anger driven. Thank you. You can tweet me at Kevin Sheen, D.C. I didn't say that Ursay's comments about Carson Wentz weren't somehow anger driven. In fact, I would guess that a lot of it is anger driven based on the fact that Carson Wentz wasn't vaccinated. I don't know that for a fact, but I've certainly surmised that from some of the commentary on why Ursa has ripped Carson Wentz. I have just said many times that you're being naive if you think the only reason that

Carson Wentz was made available after the Colts traded a first and third round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles is because the owner had some beef with him. It was more than that. It was more than that in Philadelphia. There's a track record here of two consecutive seasons where teams that were heavily invested in this player didn't want him anymore. And then on top of that, there is an indication there is evidence that Washington may have been the only team in the league willing to give up anything for him and that he was on his way to waivers. So to me, that is red flaggish. And that's what I've said. I've also said simultaneously that I think Carson Wentz is talented. There was a time, certainly when he was in Philadelphia, where we as Washington fans said,

oh, my God, Philly got it right on the quarterback. And he's going to be a dominant quarterback in the division for years to come. It's clear to me that he's got more talent and more ability and probably will produce at a higher level than what they've had here recently. But no, I don't think for a second that somehow Jim Rer, isn't angry in his, yes, you know, smear campaign of Carson Wentz, which by the way, Chris Ballard has participated into a certain extent as well. But look, he can do it on the field and make us all forget the past, including the people that let him go. Now, Carson Wentz yesterday was on the Colin Cowherd show. I think Colin Cowherd show is on Fox.

sports network. I think that's where he is right now. Calhard asked him about the Jim Ursay comments about it being a mistake, that Carson Wentz era being a mistake. This is how Carson Wentz handled that question and answer. When Jim Ursae says, hey, we made a mistake, I'm like, ow, ow, that's kind of, like that hurts a little, right? I mean, it is what it is. You know, everyone's entitled their own opinion. You know, I thought last year was a, was a really fun year. You know, I thought we did some incredible things. Came up short at the end.

Obviously, I struggled down the stretch there and timing was poor. But yeah, I didn't expect that. I didn't expect that things unfold the way they did. And, you know, I thought things were in a pretty good place there. I had awesome relationships with every single person in that building. Can't say enough good things about the people over there. And, yeah, kind of came out of left field, you know. He's entitled to his own opinion and he's entitled to do what he wants with his football team.

High road for Carson Wentz, the way he handled that answer. I really hope that what we've seen, you know, more often than not, over the last two years with a completely new group in the organization, both on the business side and on the football side. I would like to see, you know, more headlines on the field. than off the field and avoiding the headlines off the field. Now, with the owner there, that's impossible. We all understand that.

But the players can control that, and that was a take the high road answer from Carson Wentz. And I completely appreciate that and am encouraged by that. And at the same time, I have no idea what that will mean to his performance on the field. perhaps he is growing and maturing and has learned from the experience of the last two organizations he's been with. Maybe there's some recognition that this may be the last chance to be a bona fide default starter in the NFL, that if it doesn't work out in Washington, he's destined to be a backup or worse. maybe all of that's happened here in the last two years

will lead to the opportunity, one last opportunity, with a team that needs him and he needs them here in Washington, and it will work out. But I liked the answer from Carson Wentz there, but I will like it more if he performs on the field and is a stellar guy in the locker. room because at that position, there's some importance attached to that. Not necessarily, you know, a vocal leader or even the leader, but someone who isn't polarizing or worse.

And hopefully we will see that in Carson Wentz here in Washington. But I liked that answer a lot. Before we get to Santana Moss, two things. One, I'm not going to spend any time on this show talking about something that's highly entertaining. And that is, is the Nick Sabin Jimbo Fisher back and forth. You know, Nick Saban accusing Jimbo Fisher of buying players and Jimbo Fisher's unbelievable, you know, nine to ten minute press conference yesterday ripping Nick Sabin. But I would urge you to go to the Team 980.com and listen to my interview in the third hour of the show with Mark Schlebeah from ESPN because I think Mark did a really good job of explaining just how crazy

the world of college sports is right now as it relates to name, image, and likeness, NIL. And what's going on out there? We'll have time next week to circle back to this. I'd rather do it with Tommy on the show where we can have a conversation about it. But needless to say, in the minimal conversation we've had over the months about NIL,

there aren't a lot of rules out there. And the NCAA isn't really able to enforce anything. And you've got schools with big NIL budgets because they've got big time boosters who are putting that money into that budget and others that don't have the same ability. Texas A&M had one of the all-time great recruiting classes and Nick Sabin didn't like it at all. But listen to the conversation that I had this morning on the team 980.com, third hour of the show. You can download the Odyssey app or go right to the team 980.com and click on Kevin Sheehan Show and listen to the third hour of the show. The interview with Mark Schlebeau was really good.

Last thing that I want to get to before, actually two more things that I want to get to before Santana Moss. One is I love Marcus Smart. I just love the way he plays. He plays like, you know, in so many ways, the players that I really like in the NBA, Kauai Leonard, Jimmy Butler. But last night, the return of Marcus Smart and Al Horford made a significant difference. Boston absolutely hammered Miami in game two. In a continuation of NBA games that are just incredibly lopsided, that was a 25-point win. Game one the night before between Dallas and Golden State was also a 25-point margin of victory.

On Tuesday night, game one was an 11. win. The two game sevens on Sunday, you had a 28 point win and a 33 point win. I mean, it's been well over a week since the last competitive game in the NBA playoffs. I know these series are going, a lot of them are going six or seven games, which is great. But, you know, for people to really get engaged with the NBA playoffs, you've got to have some compelling games, some close games. You've had some great individual performances, but typically as part of a blowout win. I don't have any thoughts or any answers as to why the NBA playoff games have been so lopsided. It's not necessarily home court advantage. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with games in which some

players are there and some aren't. Some of that has been in play. But man, we have seen, I think, it feels like an unprecedented run of, you know, double digit to really 25 plus point victories and or losses in the NBA playoffs. All right. Lastly, I wanted to read this tweet from Pedro on Twitter. My son sent me this Twitter thread last night and said, look at this. They're talking about something you said.

Did you really say this? Pedro on Twitter tweeted, did Kevin Sheehan really? just say that Washington arguably has the worst defense on paper in the NFC East? I don't think I can take him seriously after that. Thank you, Pedro, for the tweet. He didn't tweet it to me. My son sent me this long thread and said, read through this. I read through some of the answers from some of you.

Yeah, I did say that. And it wasn't a hot take. You know, I don't really do hot takes. maybe I have on occasion, on a slow day. But for the most part, when you get my thoughts, they are what they are in that moment. They're changeable, there's no doubt. I mean, more information, more thought, more games, more data.

I've changed my mind over the course of time. And I may change my mind about what Washington's defense is in the NFC East, but not before the season. We'll have to see some games. first. But yeah, I've said that. You know, I've said that in the context, the context being that it's really incredible that a year ago we were so confident about the defense and not very confident about the offense, even though there was more confidence because Ryan Fitzpatrick was coming off two really good seasons. And, you know, they had signed Curtis Samuel. But the

defense, of course, we know what everybody thought of the defense last year. We don't need to rehash it. And then the defense didn't have a very good year. In fact, it had a dreadful year. You know, it was the 27th ranked defense overall in DVOA and football outsiders DVOA, 31st ranked defense on third down. And yeah, there were injuries, but there were more important injuries offensively. They lost their starting quarterback for the year. They lost Curtis Samuel, J.D. McKissick, Logan Thomas. Lots more injuries and important injuries on offense. Certainly the loss of Chase Young and Montez Sweat, Chase Young for the back half of the season, sweat for some games. It hurt, but neither one of them was playing very well.

Chase Young was having a subpar sophomore season when he got hurt. And sure, defensively, we know the schedule that they faced, but the NFC East teams faced similar schedules, similar quarterbacks. Now, Washington's three games that were different from the Giants, Cowboys, and Eagles, because there are only three games that are different. You know, each division team plays 14 of its seven. 17 games against the same opponents. Well, Washington's other three games were against Aaron Rogers, Josh Allen, Buffalo, and

Russell Wilson. Now, Russell Wilson was still, you know, not 100% healthy. They kind of caught Russell Wilson in Seattle at the right time. They weren't a very good team. Wilson had come off the injury and played poorly, and really until the final drive of that Monday night game hadn't played well at all since returning from injury. But, no, the defense was. dreadful last year. It was dreadful. There's no other way to really size it up. You can focus on

how good of a rush defense they had, but they couldn't get off the field. And yet the offense didn't help, but there were some games where the offense helped, and it still didn't help the defense. Now, predicting next year, the context was, isn't it incredible, you know, what a difference a year makes? Last year, we're so confident about the defense, even with the schedule it was going to face. not as confident about the offense, and I feel differently this year. And I think many of you do as well. It's like they have a lot of skill position talent on offense. They've got an upgraded quarterback. They've got a decent offensive line. And even if it's less talented than it was a year ago, that may be the best position coach on the team. John Matzko, I think Randy Jordan is phenomenal as well.

And I believe in Scott Turner. I know, you know, not everybody does, but I do. and so I think they've got a chance to be really good offensively or a lot better than they've been. And the Seth Walder analytics guy at ESPN predicted Washington's offense to be number 19 in the league, predicted Washington's defense to be 26th in the league tied with the Giants. He had both the Eagles and the Cowboys defenses ahead of Washington's. Games aren't played on paper. I understand that. just like you can't count up wins and losses based on a schedule in May.

Most of you understand that. But on paper, in terms of evaluating defensive talent, and by the way, defensive coaching staffs, right now, Dallas and Philadelphia both have better defenses than Washington. Philadelphia has added a ton, Jordan Davis, Nukobi Dean, Hassan Reddick. They'll get Brandon Graham back. if they're healthy.

They just added James Bradbury to go with Darius Slay at the corners. Dallas has the returning defensive rookie of the year, along with Leighton Vandresh and what they've got up front and Trayvon Diggs. Yeah, I think Dallas and Philadelphia are better defensively right now than Washington is. And Washington has holes. I mean, they lost depth along the strength of their defense, their defensive line. We have no idea what the answers are at linebacker. And the secondary was not very good last year, and it's got average talent.

I like Fuller. I like Curl. I'm not so sure about Jackson. I kind of like Benjamin St. Juice's talent, but he was concussed last year and didn't play as much. And I have no idea what Percy Butler is going to bring. But no, not a hot take. Actually, a pretty reasonable take, I would think. based on looking at the rosters.

And by the way, the giant defense has talent A and B, you know, got Wink Martindale to be the defensive coordinator with Brian Dable in his first season as the Giants head coach. So last year, Ivan tweeted this as an answer to Pedro's tweet about, you know, I don't think I can take Shian seriously after he said that Washington may have the worst defense on paper in the NFC East, which is 100% true. It is true if you're comparing it. Of course, it's a subjective exercise. But on the objective exercise of looking at what we had last year

compared to the rest of the division and understanding that they lost more on defense than they acquired other than getting some guys back from injury and maybe playing a lesser schedule. Ivan tweeted, points allowed, yards allowed, yards per offensive play, passing TDs, yards after catch, interceptions, net yards, first down passing, commanders were last in all of those categories. And we know what they were on third down.

Trending at one point through the first five games as the worst third down defense in the history of the league. It was a bad defense last year. It was the biggest shock and the biggest disappointment of last year. Also, like on offense, provides a huge realistic opportunity for major improvement. Both sides of the ball should be majorly improved from last year. It's not saying much. They should be better on offense because they're healthier because they've got an upgraded quarterback. They should be better on defense because really how could they be much worse?

I'm counting on Chase Young to have a big time year following last year's disappointment, assuming health. I already think Montez Sweat is really good, and you know what I think of John Allen. I think he's the class of this organization along with Terry McLaurin, and on top of being the class of the organization, he's a great player. Duran Payne is in a contract year, potentially. I don't think they're going to sign him. So he enters this year without having an extension and not being under contract for 2023 and beyond. He's got every incentive to up his play and be more consistent. When we come back, Santana Moss will be my guest right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Yeah, that was in 2006 in overtime, Brunel to our next guest, Santana Moss, who broke away and scored. the winning touchdown to beat Jacksonville in overtime. That's the home opener for Washington this year, and already Santana, people have the commanders at 1-0 to start the season. It's amazing because the NFL's schedule is kind of hard to figure out in advance. But don't you have this sense that people already think that 1-0 is a given? I mean, yeah, but I was just talking. I was just speaking on this two days ago,

and I'm like, you can't get ahead of yourself. No team is going to basically. be judged off what they did the previous year. And just like for us, we don't want to be judged as who we were last year. So yes, being optimistic is the best way to go about it and say, I feel like we have a great chance to win it, but you can't, you know, count the age before they it had. Yeah. By the way, that game was a 60-yard touchdown, 68-yard touchdown pass and overtime 36 to 30 over a Jacksonville team that had Byron Leftwich as their starting quarterback and Brunel threw three touchdowns, including two to you in that game.

All right, so Santana's on the show with us today. I know that one of the things people want to hear from you is about Jahan Dotson and the draft, but I want to start with this. Because you get asked this every single day, I bet, from fans that run into you. And they'll say, what kind of team are we going to have next year? What's your answer right now on May 20th as to what kind of team, Washington is going to have next year. Well, one of the things that I say, and just from what I've been seeing, I can't give them that.

But one thing I do feel that from watching the coaching staff develop these guys, I think there'll be a much better team next year. That I do know. I think last year I defense really played subpar, you know, that they shouldn't, they should have played way better than they did. And then when you count the COVID stuff that happened late in the season and some of the key guys, been missing. You can kind of blame some of that for being the reason. But I do believe when you when you have such a stout lineup up front, these guys have to have a better season this time

around, you know, so with that alone. And then when you look at Carson Went, look, you know, I understand the black and everything people want to throw on this guy and give them, but I feel that for NFL players, this is something I always tell folks. Every year is another year for us to improve or put whatever we did last year behind us. And we always talk about fails and losses and how you learn from those. Do you think Carson wins haven't learned from those a couple of years where people feel that he was a bust or that he failed, you know? So I'm sure coming to this season, he has a lot that he wants to get ahead of

by putting in the preparation, being with this coaching staff, doing what's at so he can overcome some of the things that probably hindered him last. year or the year before when he was in Philly. So I just think also having him and having a healthy carton makes us at least three games better. Three games better. That would make it worth it. You know, if he's three games better,

that puts you at 10 wins and puts you in the postseason. You think Carson Wentz is worth three games to Washington in 2022. Yes. I think, you know, just looking back at, you know, one of the things that me and Logan talked about, me and Logan Paulson thought about on one of our shows, we were just talking about from what happened last, what transpired last season with us.

And I feel like it was three games in there that if we had went as a quarterback, we could have had a chance to win those games. And that would have made us a better team probably in the postseason. So, you know, fast forward to now, I'm pretty sure this team is trying to, you know, like I said before, every year is a new year. So you put all that behind you, and you're trying to win them all.

Your whole goal is to win every game you go out there in line. up. But that's not realistic. You know what I mean? You're going to win some. You're going to lose some. But I believe that if Carson get in here and do what he's supposed to do, listen to this coaching staff. I think this coach and staff might be one of the better, better coach yourself from him. I understand that the guy that he was with last year, and Indy was his whisper when he was with Philly, so people feel like that should have jailed to it. And I don't blame everything that happened in Indy on Carson. I tell folks, the quarterback did a lot of blame, but you got to understand. The quarterback can't make

tackles. They don't stop the other teams and scoring. So at the end of the day, the defense have to step up too in some of those games. But I just believe in Ron and what he's doing with some of these guys. I think Ron is one of the coaches that Carson will find a way to play good for because Ron understands and he knows how to coach guys. He know how to wield them to be a better player in person. You're, you know, I haven't talked to you in a while. You're sounding very optimistic about Carson Wentz.

And I'm not suggesting that it's only because he's obviously better than what they've had. here in recent years, but it sounds to me like you like the player. Like if he had gotten traded to another team, you know, another decent team or an average rostered team, you would have thought that that team got themselves a good quarterback. Is that fair? You really like the player? Listen, listen, I like Carson when he was in Philly. I thought that the only thing that kept Carson from being a good player was Carson.

I thought that he did things at time that was uncharacteristic at the present. But if you think about it, when he came out of college, that's some of the things he did in college. But what folks felt to realize, when you get into the NFL, there comes a curve that you have to mature and say, I have to put whatever I did in the past behind me, especially if it's not going to help me succeed or be better at that position. I think he got away with a lot of stuff when he was healthier before the knee injury that he thought he can still do post knee injury back injury. So that's one of the reasons why I was kind of, you know, I've been a fan of him.

I like his arm strength. I like the deep ball with Carson. I like that he can add a little bit and be a little telehineke and still get the ball to you downfield, not have to worry about, you know, his arm can't, you know, or not making it there. So those are some of the things that stand out to me being a receiver, you know, because like I said before, as a receiver,

I've had 15 or more quarterbacks. And if one of them, if I had four years with a Carson-win-calibre quarterback in those years, then maybe my numbers would be a lot more better. because I remember even in college when I had four quarterbacks in four years, the quarterback that was able to get the ball to me downfield, when they ad-lib or when things broke down, those are the guys I play well with because they understood, and I understood that now when things break down,

like Washington-O-Brown. Most of the Johnson-O-Brown-Brown made, when he was in Pittsburgh, was ad-lib. It was second and third route. It was when Ben Rocksburger came out of the pocket, and now he's trying to make something happen, and he just made a play because he know I'm going to count on my, guy who's going to come up with the ball. So that's the kind of game that Carson

Went can bring us. But I'm not, I'm not hoping he plays that kind of football here. I'm hoping that he can settle down and listen to his coaches, this coach yourself, and hopefully they coach him up well to know that, look, save yourself for the next play. If it's not there, let's go to check down, hit the guys out to the back field, and save yourself for the next play because I feel he has a, he has a flu of guys around him that can make plays for him and he don't have to risk it in one place. How many quarterbacks did you play with here? To be exact, 15. I know for a fact, but I know it's a couple of guys here and there that

didn't probably have long seasons, but they played a game of two wins, you know, but I know for show 15. So, you know, I know many of them, and I could rip off the names of many of them right now, as many fans could, and you could as well. And, you know, one of the things that you dealt with as a player here and as a receiver here were lots of different personalities at quarterback as well, some that didn't gel well with you and the locker room and others that did. And this is some of the criticism, you know, regardless of whether it's exaggerated or you believe it or not, the bottom line is there have been a lot of reports.

There have been a lot of players that have come out and said that, you know, the leadership was lacking when it came to Carson Wentz in Philadelphia in particular. So what's your gut feel on the non-football part of Wentz? Well, I don't care about, I don't need a friend. I don't need a buddy. I don't need none of that. All I need is the guy to come out and do his job. You don't have to be a raw-rah quarterback.

You don't have to be a guy that I look into your eyes in the fourth quarter and say, give me something no, because you can look into me and my eyes and all these guys. in this huddle and know that we're going to be there for you. I think that's overrated a little bit because folks, nowadays, everything is overrated. You can't say much. You can't do much. Everybody has something to say about something. Back when we played, it wasn't all that.

We had me, myself, Portis, Cooley, back in those days when we was playing good football. And it didn't matter what quarterback was in that huddle, he knew that he had three guys that was going to go out and bust their behind and make something happen. So that's when we was playing good football. Now, the years after that, when we had younger quarterbacks and you had to kind of, you know, coach them up every play, it's kind of hard to really, you know, let that guy know that he can lean on a veteran or he can lean because they're too much. They're thinking of coaching. They have a coach in their ear the whole time. So they're trying to be, you know, correct when you don't have to be correct playing this game.

This makes the play. So when it comes down to Carson Went, I don't care about the lack of order, you know, or do we have enough, you know, character or leadership skills. I just want you to go out there and know that between these lines that we on the field and for 60 minutes, get the ball to the open guy and run to play that design.

And when things all break down, be special if you can and get rid of the football. If he can do that, man, we can play some good football because like I said before, we have enough guys around him that hopefully, you know, I'm predicting a little bit that this staff is going to say, look, we're not going to ask much.

We're going to design his offense enough to where that he's, He knows that, look, you get the ball of this guy, you get the ball of this guy, sit back and watch them do their things. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I'm hoping for because I feel that with all that said and done, even if it's not that way, Carson Wentz has enough intangible at the quarterback position that I still think he can still be one of the better quarterback in our division. So one of the things, and I did this on radio the other day, talking about kind of the skill position group around Carson Wentz in the division, it might be right up there with Philadelphia,

with Amari Cooper and Cedric Wilson gone in Dallas, you know, the combination of Terry McLaren and Curtis Samuel and Jahan Dotson and Diami Brown and Logan Thomas, if he comes back healthy, and Gibson, McKissick, and Robinson, the third round pick from Bama. Scott Turner and Carson Wentz have plenty, right, in terms of skill position, playmaking talent.

to work with. You agree with that, right? You have a pleasure of talent. You know, that's what makes me optimistic. That's what makes me, you know, right now walking around my, you know, this room talking to you because I can really see it. But like I said before, as a player, if I hear those names and I'm a part of this team, like I was just telling, just the Terry the other day, I saw Terry at the outing, and I'm like, bro, you don't understand, or you may understand that having the doctor in your room just elevated everybody else's game. because we already know what you can do, you know?

We know that you come to play every year. And sooner or later, you know what I mean? These other guys who didn't show up last year, they either going to be third and fourth fiddle, or they're going to say, look, we're not going to let this young kid, regardless of him being a first-round draft pick, we're going to step our game up to a point to where

we got to either get some of that action too or he's going to have to come in until he's caught up to speed with us because they have a jump on him by them being professionals, was a little longer than him. So I remember being in those shoes, being a young guy, and I didn't come in with high expectations to play that year.

I didn't know. You know, I didn't have a care in a world about how I went down. I knew I was going to play until I got hurt, you know, in preseason practice. But just watching those guys, that core names that you talked about, man, these guys come in, ready. That group alone, that offensive side of the ball, man. They should be hitting on all cylinders,

knowing what we have up front. I feel like that we have enough depth on our line that we can honestly say that Carson has someone in front of him to be protective of, I mean that that's going to be protective of him, and these guys can go out there and do what they do and make plays. I can tell you this, and I think you know this too. The optimism about the team next year stems from the fact that they really believe they could be very dynamic offensively, and that this could be a whole new offensive team with, you know, team with the skill position players but also with an upgraded quarterback. All right.

Before we get to, you know, how you think everybody will be used, Jahan Dotson, their first round pick out of Penn State, you're one of the players that Dotson's been comped to in terms of his style. What do you see when you see Jahan Dotson? You know, they're going to do that. I mean, folks are going to always kind of try to, say, you know, compare them to someone that's been here. When I talked to him, I sat down with him and I asked him who was the guy that he watched that, you know, basically he kind of mimic his game off of and he told me

Deshawn Jackson was a guy he looked up to. Now, he might not look like Deshaun Jackson because not too many guys can look effortlessly, you know, how he does thing when it comes to running. He just runs with a different kind of, you know, glide than a lot of guys in his league. But the one thing that stood out to me about Dawson was his route running. You know, that's something that I don't get a lot of credit for, but it's a lot of credit for it. If you turn it on the film, you can see how I emphasize separation. That's what he emphasized. I watched him in college a couple of games.

I'm like, this dude is always open. And when you watch the route, he's giving you that first, when he puts that foot in the ground to separate, when he's giving you that last stick, he's really giving you something that you can think that he's going somewhere else. And that's what stood out to me, just the ability to separate. And then second to none, I think he has some of the best when it comes to, you know, attacking the ball. He taxes just like Terry does. But he's a guy that's already coming in.

I think that probably have a little jump when it comes to being a receiver. He's more polished. He's a hands catcher. He has great radius with his arms and stuff like that. And then he has enough speed to get away from you. He might not probably be as fast as Terry. I think Terry's more before three guys. He ran four four coming out.

But when you put all that together, he's a complete receiver. And then you see that he can run a punt. So that's something that, you know, you can compare me with because I did all those things too. I have a different, you know, you know, body types a lot different. He's a more leaner guy probably a little taller. I was a little more stocky guy, you know, a little compact.

So that's why I don't really sit out there and say, you know, you can compare him to me. But when it comes down to the way he makes plays, man, hey, hey, put my name in the box with him, you know what I mean? But I'm hoping that he can come and be that person, you know, out the gate with us because I think we really need it. And like I said before, all he's going to do is kind of, you know, make all those guys in that room step their game up.

You know, we've talked about this before, but I loved it when they put you back on punts. Whether it was Joe or Zorn or anybody, I loved when they put you back on punts because I always felt there was a chance it was going to be taken to the house. I mean, I think you had three or four punt returns for touchdowns in your career, something like that.

I forget what the number was. Four total three in a seat, three doing regular season, one in the playoffs. One in the playoffs. But, you know, I know what the answer to this is, but for those who haven't heard you say it, did you want to return punts? Did you ask for more punt returns? Obviously, Randallel was there to do it, you know, starting in 2006.

But was that something that you asked more of or not? I just spoke on this yesterday. Man, you asked me questions that is like fresh on my mind. right now. You know what? I honestly have one regret throughout my whole career not continuing to return or punts on a regular. And the only reason why I regret it, because

when I look back, and I do a lot of this looking back stuff now that I'm retired. When I was playing, I'm just full feet ahead. I never kind of reflect on things. I just kept it moving. But the reason why I took myself off a punt return was because, you know, as a starter on the

offense, you don't want to take that production away from your team. You know, I was trying to be very, what you call it, I was looking, I was trying to be, like, I wanted to be the best I can be for the offense, being strategic. So I want to say, okay, if I get Nick being a punt returner, now you're taking away these yards and these touchdowns from the offense.

So I just thought that, hey, if my pump return team isn't one of the best, meaning, like, you know, I thought we was coached up well, but I didn't think the guys took it serious how they did when I was in New York. In New York, the guys took it serious. They knew that, man, we give Tanna one, I mean, one little, is he going to take it and it could be six?

And when I got here, the first year, I was taking too many licks. And I talked to coach, me and them sat down, say, coach, I'm not going to lie to you. I love doing it, but I refuse to take the hits I'm taking if these guys are not going to be serious about it. And what I mean about being serious, it's not all on them. Some of the guys were guys that was just coming off the field from corner

or whatever else position, and they were sticking them out there and saying, now run down field and block for tenor. That's acting too much at times because these guys are already gas because they're out there on defense, and they've been ran up and down the field, and they finally got to stop. Now they got to run out field and try to spring me. So I didn't think it was fair for those guys, and I also didn't think it was fair for me to not get their full effort. it. So I wish I would say back there, but I think I did a great business decision by not, because

I didn't want to get myself hurt. And I remember being in that situation in New York being hurt and couldn't be on the offense. So that's why I did it. But Danny Smith was the special teams coach pretty much the entire time you were here, right? Yeah, Danny was my guy. Danny was the guy that honestly, it's crazy that you bring up that name. When we had Randuel as a full-time point returner. It was back in, I believe this was 07, 07 when I ran on the point of return. I think it was 08, 07-08. He was in Detroit. I'm not sure what year was. Detroit was the, was the Zorn year. Was the first Zorn year. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah. So Danny asked me like, hey, you want to go back there? And I'm like, sure, because now I'm understanding that, hey, my offense kind of

thrives off of me being, you know, in the game. Like, if I'm in the game, that I got enough touches. The pump return was giving those touches. You know, back when I was in college, that was what so great about me in college because I've been around to punt return back, and then now the first ball you're giving me on offense, I might take it to the house because I'm already in the game now.

You got my juices for him. So, Danny threw me out there after I had to unscored a couple of touchdowns, he's like, man, we need a spark on punt return. And I end up running them back. And so that's when we started saying, okay, Tanner, you might not want to be that day every play, but we're going to put you back there at time when we need sparks. So, you know, that was something that me and him came up with due to the fact

that I wasn't kind of sure about being out there every time they punt it because I just didn't want to risk that for my offense or risk it for myself. So, you know, the game you're referring to, because I just pulled it up on pro football reference. Detroit, remember, hadn't won a game in forever, and would eventually in 2009, I think, and their losing streak against Washington. But in that particular year, 2008, two things about that game. First of all, it was a close game. It was a one-score game when you returned the punt in the fourth quarter for 80 yards for touchdown. And you guys ended up winning the game.

And that also remember Zorn's first year, that was the game that got you guys to six and two at the halfway mark. And then the next two games were Pittsburgh and Dallas at home, one on Monday night, one on Sunday night. And the one against Pittsburgh was when that was the first. first game, Tanna, that being in that stadium, it was like, oh, my God, what happened? It was like terrible towels everywhere. Do you remember that? I remember the night. Biblically. I remember it Bivoli. And I remember because it was a Monday night game and seen, I'm glad you brought it up because that's something else I can add to it. So think about it. I ran a punt back. I had a fabulous game. I played well on offense and, you know, 13th team. But

I nick my hamstring. So that was one of the reasons why I didn't want to put so much on me because if I never run that punt back, maybe that hamstring is still intact. And so we go out and play Pittsburgh. Yes, I rest that whole week, but I'm playing on a flight league to our hamstring,

which I couldn't be 100% on, and we get killed. You know what I mean? Pittsburgh gave it to us. So that's another reason why I used to make those business decisions because I felt like, look, I know I can run these puns back and true. I don't want to be taking you know, those shots when I don't need to.

But my hamstrings at the time, you know what I mean? Just being a guy like, you know, Gary Clark said that's what made me, you know, he was telling me at one time I reminded him of himself because of the hamstring problems and just being a guy that you can always count on. But we kind of dealt with the same thing. That's what made me not want to risk it a lot because I'm like, man, I went out there, had a great game, had a touchdown on offense, had a touchdown on offense, had a touchdown as a punt return, but, you know, I took my hamstring.

Well, you had in that Detroit game, nine catches, 140 yards a touchdown from 50 yards out from Jason and then had the 80-yard punt return. You know, you just mentioned business decisions. I always felt like, and I don't know, maybe I've asked you about this before, I can't remember. I always felt like Antoine Randallel when they brought him here and signed him to that big free agent contract. And he was, you know, a do-everything player. big-time punt returner in Pittsburgh. I remember saying he's not the same punt returner here. He's making business decisions.

He doesn't want any part of these punt returns. And I always felt that way, and it was such a big disappointment because he was such a great returner in Pittsburgh. What people sort of realize, and that goes back to just how folks are blocking. You know, Randu L style of running punt is he's going to make you miss a whole bunch of times. and then before you know he tire you out and now he's running down the sideline. He didn't have the breakaway speed that I had,

but he was cat quick, and he was going to do a lot of jooking. Me, I was going to make that first guy missed and put my foot in the ground and say, now come wrong with me, you know, and that's some of the things that was different about us. And, you know, I remember, you know, it's crazy bringing up so much stuff

that I just spoke on, you know, recently. You know, now think about that time when Randu L. and Brendan Lloyd came in got these big deals. Now, remember, they got to, same amount of money I got, and I just had a thousand yards in New York before I got there, and then gave them 1,400 yards the first year I was here.

Right. So this think about the players today. If that was somebody who was getting the money that I was getting, when you think it would be some kind of, you know, turmoil going on that, you bring in two guys that haven't had a thousand yards yet in his league, but you give them the same amount of money that you give them one of your, you're considerably star receivers, you know? So that's something that shows you to,

where my mind was at back then. Like back then, I didn't care about your pocket, your pocket. That's trying to win these games. And, you know, that was one of the reasons, too, that made me, you know, ease away from public turning because I knew Randall can do it. And I was hoping that he was going to be that same guy that he was in Pittsburgh with us. By the way, don't forget, they traded for Brandon Lloyd. You know, it wasn't just that they signed him and paid him all that money.

They traded draft choices for Brandon Lloyd. And that was the offseason where they also signed out of Marchelette. and basically made him a punt protector. Yeah, after a few games. All right, back to Jahan Dotson for a moment. So you talked about like the separation. I actually think this is interesting, and I'm sure I've talked to Cooley about it in the past,

but for a wide receiver, what is the most important thing at the line of scrimmage or in a route to creating that separation, making it easier for your quarterback? Is it speed? Is it quickness? Is it sort of the basketball, feet and eyes and moves. What is it that is more important than anything else for a receiver in creating separation

from a defender, a good defender? I think what you have to do now is talking about business decisions, talking about being or being very strategic, you have to set a guy up. You have to give a guy something that he saw before and use almost every other route off that same stem. That's something I learned from Curtis Johnson, who was a, New Orleans Saints coach for a long time for the receivers. For a while, he just stopped being a receiver coach when, you know, Peyton just, you know,

stop coaching. Right. He taught me in college to have at least, you know, six things that, six ways to get off the nine of scrimmage, but use the same stem on most of my routes that's down the field. So when I run your stem, I'm giving that DB the notion of I'm running something that he saw before. Now, like I said before, I've always said this, you know, the folks, when they're asking about one-on-one, they're asking about who was hard. One-on-one, I should always win, you know, one-on-one. So as a receiver, no matter you press me, don't matter if you off.

Nowadays, you see a lot of these guys being off. They don't put hands on that much, no more. You should always win when you have one-on-one. And if you're giving a guy something that we saw before, that's what makes Devonthe Adam so well. He gives you a stem of a, he's going to run the same route. And then now at the top of that route, Bam boom, and he's out, and he's breaking out instead of breaking in. So that's one of the things that I would say.

I would say you give him that same gear or two that you normally have coming off the ball, and then you give him a stem that they saw earlier in the game or just a moment ago. Like, you could have ran a dig route two plays ago, and he ran an inside release. So now that guy, he's tired of all outdoors, and you give him that bam boom off the line of stream, and you run inside. The first thing he's going to say is, oh, man, I got dig. he's ran just two plays ago. And when you put that foot in the ground to make him think dig and you fly it somewhere else,

he's beating every time. So that's what got me open a lot because I use similar stems. And I use my gift. I use my speed. And if you ask coolly, coolly can, you know, tell you, too. One of the things that I did well was coming in and out of my break. A lot of folks can't put that foot in the ground and be able to come out and separate the same time.

Most guys slow down, drop their hands, do all that type of stuff. I was very good at cooking pattern and getting out of my brakes and get out of my cut and, you know, ready for the ball. How much, that makes a lot of sense what you talked about, especially, you know, changing it up from what they've previously seen and kind of, you know, fooling them. How much does do eyes play into separation? Like being able to throw somebody off, does a defender look at your eyes, your chest? where is a defender a corner looking when he is when he's got when he's in man coverage most of the time that when I was young they told they always told us they're looking at our hip you know DBs would tell them I'm looking at your hips I'm watching your hip but they're

watching they have their perist on they're looking at you through your eyes and watching your legs at the same time and watching the quarterback they have too many jobs so at the end of the day like I say that's why you see some of the guys who's doing it well nowadays like I love old Belham. I like the kid up there at Jefferson of the Minnesota. I like his counterpart who's up there in Cincinnati. Oh, it's George Chase.

Yeah, Chase. If you watch the way they run routes and you watch the decisiveness that they have at the top of their break, they might give you a little hip action because the DB's watching it. They don't give you a little hip just so you can bite and then they don't give you that same hip again for you to bite again and then break

you know, break elsewhere. And to me, I think if you can do that, maintaining your speed, that allows you to be a great route runner. When you can maintain whatever you might be, if you're a 4-4-guide, you can maintain that 4-4 speed and still do some of the things that we do well when it comes to getting in and out of our route, that makes you dynamic. And that's what's hard for Dickens of Back to be man-to-man and not hold and not tug and not put something on you because it's impossible for you to be Dion Sanders.

And I don't understand how he was, he was to himself for so long, man, to be able to run with guys, stop on a dime, change the direction, and still be there to attack the ball and sometimes take the ball from the guy and go back to the other way and put up six. So it's not a lot of DVDs out there that's doing that. Now, it's a lot of good ones out there. I still watch a lot of them. But, man, it's impossible to cover a guy man to man without somebody over the top helping you because it's just, it's a win-win for us all the time. Who's the best corner you've ever faced? Who was the guy that you really had a difficult time with? It's hard to say, man, because, you, I, man, trust me.

Like, I tell folks all the time, I played against guys with no name, and it was a fucking, it was a brawl, you know, because of what they had up front. I felt the best defensive front always had, gave me trouble at the quarterback's position. It didn't matter who that guy was. If you had a good defensive front that was going to get out to our country, quarterback, I'm covered because now the quarterback has to come off of me when he

have to get rid of the ball too fast and I need my time. I need to be able to do what I do to get out of my break, especially if I'm running something down field. But to this give you something when it comes to those names that I might use, you might want to hear. The hardest time I had was with Revis, I think. Revis rookie season, I went back to New York for the first time to play New York Jet. You know, I've been going back every year because we play the Giants there every year. But it was my first time. playing my old team and I'm excited. I'm deeped up a bite. I'm like, okay, I get a chance to really play them and, you know, I've been itching or not say itching. I've been hoping that whenever I do go

back, I'm right mentally. You know, a lot of folks say, yeah, I can't wait to, you know, play the team that I came from. I want to do this to them. No, I'm not that guy. I care less. I cut the core when I leave, you know, I'm not looking back at them. I'm not caring about what they're doing. And I hope whenever I do play them mentally, I'm not thinking about them. You You know what I'm saying? So at the time, it was perfect. It was Reba's rookie year. I knew nothing about them.

Didn't watch film on them. Didn't do none of that. You know, at one point of time, I, you know, I tell the story all the time. I didn't want to psych myself out about the guy. So I didn't watch them. I watched the defense, and I watched the different formations they're going to be in. But I never paid attention to the defensive back or that cornerback that was covering me because I know it's not going to be one all the time.

I mean, I'm going to go on left. I'm going to go right. I'm going to go spot. You know what I mean? So I never want to get psyched out by somebody, you know, and feel that he has a chance. I like to be surprised. Surprise me come game day.

So, boy, I was in for a surprise. You know, I get out there, and I hear I got a rookie, so I'm like, okay, he's a rookie. So he's not going to be on a lot of stuff that we're doing, but let me see what he got. And this guy followed me here and there. He didn't play me the whole game, man, the man. But I left that game, and I called a good friend of mine who I talked football with. He's my best friend, and we played together, you know, in high school. and he live up here with me.

And I called him. I say, man, he's a cornerback too. I said, you didn't tell me about the kid in New York. Who is that? He said, man, I told you. He said, you wasn't listening. I told you New York got the best cornerback that came in a draft. He's from Pittsburgh.

His name is Revis. I said, you know, I wasn't listening because, boy, he just gave me the game of my life. But, you know, I had a good game. I could have won the game if Jason Campbell didn't have a bazooker for, I beat him on a double route and I'm wide open and he threw the ball in the stands and that could have been the game

when the touchdown. We end up going to overtime and I think he still won that game. But Revis gave me a run for my money, man. I remember watching him every game after that like, yep, you know what? It wasn't just me. He's that guy, you know what I'm saying?

So he's one guy that stands out to me that I didn't have to play all the time that I remember just thinking by him like, man, that guy was tough. He was solid. You know, most guys that give you a hard time of guys that can run with you. He didn't have the top tier speed I had at the time,

but he was very good at the line of scrimmage. He was very good in running the scheme that they were in, and he just seemed like he was sharp. He knew he was ahead of his time as a rookie. None of the coaches came to you, Gibbs, you know, none of the offensive coaches came to you before and said, hey, this kid's a rookie, but this is a real talent. Nobody gave you any warning.

But they didn't know either. They didn't know either. They didn't know he was going to try to be reason. And honestly, honestly, when you got facing the guys that you got that's been lining up and beating everybody that's in front of them, they're not coming to tell you about nobody else. They want to make sure that you're ready to go do what you do, you know? I remember

that game because I think that was Clinton's biggest game of his career here. I think he went for nearly 200 yards. It was unbelievable. Gibbs ran him into the ground, but he was unbelievable in that game. Yeah, he was. All right, back to the team currently. So you like Dotson.

and the weapons that they have with Terry and Dotson, and assuming everybody's healthy, Curtis Samuel, Diami, Brown. You know, Logan Thomas, you know, healthy, McKissick, Gibson, etc. How will Scott Turner use all of these toys? Because there's more here in skilled position talent than we've had in a long time. I don't think it's enough balls, honestly. When's the last time anybody said that? That's a good problem to have.

You know, I really think Curtis is out for blood. You know, when you have a season that he had last year, especially when you come to a new team, that's one of the number one things you want to do. Like when I was coming from New York, ask Portis this. I mean, Portis would tell you, I was staying with Portis the whole entire spring

into the summer before I got my spot. And I remember Porta's just having, you know, gatherings at his house every other day. And I would go get lost. I would go upstairs in the room and lock myself in the room. and just focus on the playbook and just you really know that look i haven't made a name for myself here yet i know they just paid me big bucks and that's already enough for me to you know be appreciative of i need to come out and be the best i can be every time we step on that field and all we was

doing was o's at the time and porters used to be pissed he had come knock on the door like bro you mean to tell me you're up here locked in the room i'm like bro i y'all having a good time i understand but I want to go out here and perform tomorrow in practice so they can know what they got. And I think when I would look back at Curtis, it wasn't his fault that he was dealing with what he dealt with last year. But I know the feeling of being that player. I know the feeling of can't represent or show the team what your true worth is because you're injured. And, you know, I saw him out there at times and I was just tipping my hat off to him

knowing that he was out there. But I truly believe this year, man, if he has an inch, if he's 75, 80 percent of what he was, in Carolina, you know, be ready. We're talking about Docton and talking about Terry. Hey, that guy there alone runs circles around some of the stuff that we saw in our offense in the past few years. So if you got him added with a Terry that's going on with his fourth year now and with those other weapons, just be ready, man.

And that's what makes me say that. I don't have enough balls with all these guys. But hopefully he's going to put up a, have a well, you know, put together game plan to make sure he scares the crap out of every team we're facing, knowing that they got to have something ready for all these dudes, knowing that they all are lethal weapons. Do you feel good about Scott Turner's ability to, you know, spread it around and really turn the talent offensively into something, you know, upper tier in the NFL offensively? I think this league is a copycat league, and the more we try to sit there and worry about

how good of an officer coordinator is, I think that's too over, you know, that's overrated too. I think we don't, Scott did a lot last year that surprised a lot of folks. I remember being in some of them games. I'm like, now you're calling them plays. But you don't have to really go that deep, man. You can just watch what the team did before you.

And if it's not in your playbook, put it in your playbook. That's what we did in 2005. I swear to God, I tell folks every day. In 2005, when I got here, I would come to the building every practice day very early, before the practice even start, before we had meetings, and they would give me a rundown of everything the team who played, the team that we played this week did the week before.

And they would say, Tanner, can you run these plays? And I would say, yes, coach. Because I felt that I was one of those, that was one of my gifts, too, as a receiver, being in the frame that I was in, I had a gift to run every route, whether it was a route for a bigger receiver or a small receiver. I can do it because, one, I had hop so I can go up and get the ball, and then, two, I had all the skill set that you want with a guy who can just get the ball right now and make something happen. So I saw that then.

We won games literally with the other team's offense or passing game. We would go away from my passing game and run. So save minutes for that cowboy game that everybody is, you know, oh man, Monday Night Miracle. That route I ran, I got that from Marvin Harris. He ran that against Terry, not Terry again, Aaron Glenn when I was in New York. Aaron Glenn was on my team. I told him, I said, Coach, Harrison, he runs this route. Marvin runs this route every time.

He's called Dino. He runs plant. I mean, he runs post, corner, post, and beat him every time. We need to put that in there. We put it in. And ever since then, those coaches will just give me plays from the other guys and say, run them, Tanner, because you can do it. Why do we wait so long in that game to run it until the fourth quarter down 13-0?

That was the reason why we started because I was pissed off and I asked the same questions. Come fourth quarter, quarters come to me like, why are you mad? I'm like, bro, I ran a million plays in practice that I gave them that we could be successful on and I haven't ran one yet. And all I know is, you know, this is my second game as a skin because, you know, those days you call team, so I'm going to say that. Coach Jim has come to me and I'm kind of, that's one of the things I never wanted, you know, as a player. I've always treated the coaches as they was like superior.

Like I never wanted the coach to come to me in the middle of a game and have to talk to me about anything. I tried to be that sharp on everything I did. That was like your dad or your mom busting you out by not cleaning your room when the head coach got to come to you and talk me about something. So here goes Gibbs walking to the best, and he's looking at me the same way I'm looking at him. And he's like, you want to run Dino?

I'm like, shh, you're asking me that now? I'm like, yeah, coach. He's all right, we run in Dino when we get the ball back. And boom, we get touchdown. And I come back and I'm breathing all hard. And I'm like, well, at least I did something in this game. And he comes back to me and say, hey, we get the ball back. We're going at him again.

I'm like, thank the Lord. And that's, you know, the rest is history. So I don't know why we waited so long. But I'm glad when we did do it, we went out there and executed well because that gave them enough confidence that this guy kind of gave us these plays. So let's start giving himself that we see other guys are running, and maybe he can do that also. From the 30, you know, going deep, and it's when he beats the same two guys. I was going to say, this is offense, this is defense.

You can play great defense the whole game, but you have to make a play here. You can play lousy offense the whole game, but you have to make a play here. And the team that makes the players, the team is going to win. 70 yards to Moss, and so the Redskins go almost. two full games without a touchdown, and then they get them back to back, and the extra point will give them the lead. It is one of, I would say,

the top 10 to 15 most memorable games in franchise history. It's up that high on the list, and it was week two. You know, it wasn't a playoff game. It wasn't an NFC championship game. It wasn't a Super Bowl. But I'll never forget that night, nor will, you know, millions of fans of this team. because, well, I should say, many probably had turned it off.

You know, it's like approaching midnight, and it's 13-0-0 and one of the most boring games of the year. But if you stayed up like I did to watch the end, it's one of the kind of just stand up and scream. I think my wife was sound asleep. She comes down. What's going on? I'm like, you're not going to believe what just happened over the last five minutes.

That's an all-timer. You know how much I enjoy this when we do it. I hope you're well. Santana's doing a bunch of stuff with NBC Sports Washington. Tell everybody else. You said you're doing something with Logan. That's on NBC Sports Washington, right? Well, we, most of our shows our tape in Ashburn.

So we do the Command Center now. We have a new show. There are essentially changed the name for the Commanders now. So I show is not, no longer Washington football, you know, I've forgotten name because just that quick we go through so many different names. But now it's me, Logan, and Julie, we are part of the new show called the Command Center. So that's what me and Logan do together, and we break down different film here and there. And you'll probably also see me on the podcast during the season called the Players Club. You know, I have my weeks when I'm on that.

But I'm just loving being a part of the, you know, what's going on around here. I think, man, sooner or later, we're going to all be big, fat, and happy because we celebrated of us finally getting over what we've been waiting on for so long and actually getting a championship sooner or later. I'm just that guy. I'm going to speak it because I feel like if you don't speak it, it don't happen. So that's what I'm here for a man. That's what I want. I didn't get it as a player. But, hey, I'm not going to win until we did it.

That's my word. All right. Good luck with everything you're working on. You know, I appreciate it. Hopefully we'll do this again maybe right before the season starts. Thanks. No doubt any time. Thanks for having me, buddy. Up next, one of my favorite Twitter follows is the Capitol Weather Gang.

Most of you know I have an obsession with weather, specifically winter weather, but it is going to be brutally hot this weekend, perhaps record-setting hot. Jason Samanow from Capital Weather Gang will join us next. And then Eddie C will follow Jason to talk about the preakness and give us his picks for the second leg of the Triple Crown when we come back. Right after these words from a few of our sponsors. It is going to be hot this weekend. It's hot today.

If you're listening to this on Friday, it's going to get even hotter tomorrow. And it is my pleasure to welcome on to the podcast for the first time. I think I've had people in the past from Capitol Weather Gang on. I'm a big fan of the Washington Post's weather site, the Capitol Weather Gang, at Capital Weather, by the way, on Twitter. Jason Saminao is part of the whole forecasting group. He runs the Capital Weather Gang Twitter account,

and he wrote yesterday, which is what made me think to call you to have you on, about this unusual heat wave. I'm usually, Jason, you know, I know you know a little bit about my weather fascination. It's more about winter weather for me. But I was curious about this weekend because you wrote about it being record setting, et cetera. So for those that are getting ready to feel heat for the first time after a relatively cool spring, what are we seeing this weekend? Why are we seeing it?

And will it be a record setter for May? Yeah, sure. So it's all getting started today, of course. And actually, just to get things rolling, I wanted to thank you for having me on. But, yeah, today the heat is starting to build. We'll see highs up around 90 today. There's some question about whether the cloud cover streaming in from some of the thunderstorms to the west will actually hold temperatures down just a little bit today. But still looking at 90s, maybe below 90s today.

And so we'll hit 90 for the first time this year. And that's actually a little later than normal, but we'll really turn things up tomorrow. That's going to be the hottest day. And we're looking at highs in the mid to upper 90s. And the record high for tomorrow in D.C. is 96, and we could very well get there. We could even hit 97, and if we do that, if we hit 97, that would be the hottest so early in the season on record. So that would be pretty notable to be so hot so soon. And even on Sunday, it's going to be hot as well, 90 to 95.

You know, these temperatures are about 15 to 20 degrees above normal. So, yeah, one of the more exceptional heat waves we've seen so early in the year. So why is it happening? Well, you know, there are several factors at play. There's a low pressure system out in the Midwest and the counterclockwise circulation around that is acting like a heat pump and pushing this heat, which has been building in Texas for days. I mean, it's been brutal there.

San Antonio has been like over 100, you know, four or five days already this year more than they did the entirety of last year. Abilene, Texas has seen some of its hottest weather, Dallas, is seeing its hottest May weather. So it's been brutal there. And, you know, of course, they're worried about the power grid there and Ircott and all those things. But, yeah, so a lot of that heat, which is building down there, it's getting pumped up in our direction. And it's not only that, but of course we have this long-term climate change trend. And so anytime we have a hot weather pattern, it's probably going to be just a little bit worse than it would have been, you know,

30, 50, 70 years ago. And that's going to continue as we pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. So, yeah, Climate change is definitely intensifying our heat waves. I mean, we've seen that. We've seen a lot of these brutal heat waves in recent years, some of our hottest summers on record, you know, in the last decade. And this is just going to continue. Well, yeah, and it's part of the discussion that it's actually producing the extremes on both end, on the hot and the cold and the stormy. You know, that's why, and you guys have done a better job than anybody, you know, over the years of documenting these massive winter stormy. that we've had, I mean, you know, the winter of 2009, 2010 being perhaps the all-time greatest

winter in the history of this town, if you're into snowstorms, which I am, you know, that we see that stuff as well. Now, one of the things about this weekend, you know, anybody that has a weather app has been seeing these special weather statements popping up, and you get those this time of year because it's the first time that you get heat. It's going to be really hot. It's going to be record-setting hot. You told us why. Will there be the typical DC oppressive humidity in heat index associated with this heat, or will it be not as bad as it would be, say, in July or August? Yeah, that's a great question. The humidity will be higher than normal for May, but the humidity won't be as bad as it would be if this same heat wave occurred in July. So we're looking at dew points, which are a measure of humidity in the mid-60s, which is moderately humid, but the really brutal dew points are over 70, 75.

We see those in July. We're not seeing that this time around. And so actually, we are not under a heat advisory. And we get a heat advisory when the heat index, how hot it feels is 105 or higher. We'll probably see heat index values around 100. But the humidity will add a few degrees to what it feels like outside, but it's not going to be as bad as it could. be. Now, interestingly, it's going to be worse to our north. Philly, Boston, New York City, they're all under heat advisories because the core of the heat actually is going to be in New

England and in the interior northeast. Really? That's unusual. So how hot will it be in New York, Philly, and Boston this weekend? It's just a few degrees hotter than here. Not a lot. I mean, I don't think you're going to know that's a big difference between the cities, but in those areas, the threshold for heat advisory is a little lower. I It's around 100 versus 105 years. So they don't need it to get quite as hot to be under a heat advisory. But even so, I think it will be a couple degrees hotter up there. That's where the core of the heat dome is going to set up.

So it'll be a little bit hotter. But as I said, I don't think it'll be that noticeable. Everyone, you know, from Richmond to Boston, even up into northern New York State, parts of Vermont and New Hampshire, they're going to see temperatures well into the 90s up there as well. We're talking to Jason Sam and Al. Jason is with the Capitol Weather Gang. I think anybody that lives in town is, you know, a follower of Capitol Weather Gang. You should be, you know, especially for big time weather events. They essentially will be documenting it minute by minute during these events and providing updated forecasts, which are always the best. So I think, you know, an obvious question would be, since we're going to set records here in May with heat, what is it portend in terms of the rest of the summer? Is there any link to what we're going to see the rest of the summer? Is it going to be a brutally hot summer because we're seeing this in May?

Great question. And it's interesting because the National Weather Service, they put out their summer temperature outlook yesterday, and they do favor above normal temperature. for much of the eastern U.S. In fact, for pretty much the entire country. They're calling for high odds of a hot summer. So I think we better get used to it. And, you know, it's a situation where it's very unusual now for us to have a cooler than average summer

just because our temperatures are trending up because of the climate change influence I mentioned earlier. So, you know, once in a great while, we'll get a reprieve. You know, last summer wasn't the worst. I think we were still above average. I think actually we had 4890 degree days last year, so that was above average. But it wasn't as bad as it has been some years. So, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I think like, you know, any sort of consistent cool summers

or, you know, series of cool summers, that's not going to have every year. We're faced brutal stretches of heat and humidity, and it's just going to be a question of how bad. Is it record-breaking or is it just, you know, a little bit above normal? And I think we're going to issue our own D.C. summer outlook towards the end of the month, and we'll have more specifics then. But, yeah, I definitely leading towards hot. What kind of hurricane season is being projected for, you know, not only the Gulf, but the Atlantic and, you know, the potential for something in the north, you know, the northern Atlantic states, mid-Atlantic states. Yeah, yeah, several research groups which do hurricane season, a lot of what have come out with their predictions.

and they're all, there's a consensus. So this is going to be yet another. I think it's going to be the sixth or seventh in a row active hurricane seasons. So that means we're going to be tracking a lot of storms. Waters in the Gulf of Mexico, they're already warm. So there are concerns that we're going to have another difficult season with a lot of storms threatening the United States. You know, where they hit, that's a wild card.

You never know where they're going to hit until, you know, three to five days out, typically. So, you know, maybe we'll get lucky and there'll be a lot of fish storms, you know, storms that stay over the open ocean rather than hitting land. But the deck is stacked. We're in a Lanina. Winter is going to be light, so the storm should be able to develop pretty well. And we'll probably see a good number of them, unfortunately. All right. That leads me to this, this final question.

I know we're still in a La Nina year, and there's nothing worse in the winter months for people like you and me to hear about a storm that's. a fish storm. We don't want fish storms in the winter if we've got cold air in place. We want the right track up the Atlantic seaboard so we get big snowstorms. I know La Nina was, you know, what it was last year, and that may be a moderate or a weakening Lanina would end up being sort of advantageous if you want a cold and stormy winter. I know it's only May, but tell me right now what your first gut is on the winter of 22 and 23. Yeah, you know, I'm not encouraged. It's, you know, it's It seems like we might get a triple-dip Lenina, which means a Lenina for basically the third straight year.

Lenina is associated with lower-than-average snowfall in D.C. So, you know, if you compare El-Nino to El-Nino events on balance will give you more snow. Now, as you know, being a weather enthusiast, you know, every La Nina and every Al-Nino is different. And you can have El-Nino's in which you get shut out and you get basically no snow. and you can get buried in a Lanina event. I mean, 96, which was one of our best snow years on record, was a Leningia year. But on average, yeah, I mean, if we have Linenia for a third straight year, you know,

the odds are stacked against a big snow winner, but you can't rule it out. You know, we'll have to just see how the pattern set up as we get closer. You mentioned 96. That is. Are you, Jason, are you from here? I am. Yeah, I was here. for that. Okay, so that's, that's my favorite of all time. The 90, the January, the, the early January 96th storm is my all time favorite. You know, the cold air was locked in place. It was frigid during the storm. You know, we had, you know, ultimately 26, 27, depending on where you lived. And then by the way, we, you know, four or five days later, we had another 10 inch plus snowstorm that week, you know, and look, 09 and 10 were great because we had the blizzard and december. And then, we had the blizzard and december.

and then we had the back-to-backs in February. And you guys have names for all of them. I kind of forget the names. But since you're from here, what's your all-time favorite winter storm? You know, I think it has to be probably the second blizzard following Snowmaged in that second February storm from 2010. What was great about that is that those were the most extreme winter conditions I've ever seen in the D.C. area. Because it was, you know, we already had, you know, like 20 inches of snow on the ground. And then it's just dumping, the wind is blowing.

I mean, that was a true blizzard and the temperatures were crashing. And if you remember that event, it didn't look that great when you went to bed that night. I guess it started as like a snow or a wintry mixed, and it had kind of, the temperature had gone up to like 33. It had transitioned to like a drizzle. But then the lobe bombed off the coast, and we just got hammered starting late that night. into the next day and the temperatures crashed, the wind was howling. And, I mean, you don't see scenes like that in D.C. like we saw that day. I mean, no one could go anywhere.

I mean, it was just, the landscape was utterly transformed. It was like you were in Siberia. It was unbelievable. I just remember going out for a walk at it and thinking, I may never see something like this again in D.C. Because it was like 18 degrees. snow was blowing sideways. The snow was up to your waist walking through it.

It's just awesome. And so that, for me, was my favorite. And also, one of the great things about that snowmagedon winters, all three of those snowstorms were basically all snowstorms. You didn't have it changing to sleep for an extended period of time. The 96th storm was a big disappointment for me for one reason. I was in Paul Church, and we went over for sleep to sleep for hours during that storm. And Paul Church, I mean, maybe if you're out by Dallas, it stayed all snow.

out there. But the 96th storm, I mean, we still got 20 inches, but we lost probably, you know, four to six because we had sleep. So, you know, the huge snow lover, I was really bummed about that in 96. Well, we really lost a lot in the March superstorm of 93 because of the... Oh, yeah, that was awful. That was, I mean, considering what we were projected to get and ultimately got, it's interesting. The 96 storm, I think more in terms of there was that lull, you know, late Sunday and then all of the sudden late Sunday night and Monday morning you had something equivalent now it was on the wraparound more um where we got yeah yeah we got buried on the wrap around the February 20 the second storm in February of 2010 what you described is so true

I'll never forget just opening up the front door in my house walking outside and saying to my wife and young children, I don't know that you'll ever see true blizzard conditions like this. This is an actual blizzard. You know, the winds were howling heavy snow. And look, we didn't get as much in terms of accumulation with that storm that we'd gotten with the one a few days earlier, you know, the Super Bowl weekend storm. But it's, but still, it was, it was, yeah. Yeah, it was awesome during those several hours. And you might be right. I mean, I think we've had blizzard conditions during 96, I would say that Sunday night into Monday morning had to be blizzard conditions. But I don't know if we ever had it. And by the way, those conditions happened

during the daytime too. So it was pretty cool to sit out there and watch what really was awesome, Mother Nature. Yeah, well, I walked to Wisconsin Avenue in northwest D.C. and it was a ghost town. And I mean, everything was just covered and it was just unbelievable. I mean, you know, this was like in friendship heights. I was walking up there. It was like the only one out there. You know, there are no cars. It was like late afternoon, and it was, you know, pretty dark out. It was pretty surreal to be out in that.

We did, by the way, have true blizzard conditions in the 2016 storm. Oh, yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, 2016 storm was pretty good, too. And that one stayed off snow. So that was, yeah, I mean, we're fortunate in the last few decades in the D.C. area that we've lived through, you know, several of our biggest notes.

So it's been a pretty good period for us. Of course, we haven't seen much since 2016. So we'll have to see if we can change that up. Yeah, I mean, like, there's one friend in my life that's as nerdy on this stuff and wants it as much as I do. And we've, you know, we've had conversations about the last couple of years. And it's like, well, would you give back, you know, January of 2016, you know, for more sort of steady winters or, you know, give back 20,

tent, no, because those storms are what people like me and then, you know, experts like you live for, you know? So I would take a couple of winters of not much for what, you know, every four or five years having a chance at a big one. And we've had chances at some big ones, you know, over the last couple of years that just haven't materialized. Yeah, January 3rd this year wasn't bad. I mean, of course, you know, they got a foot down in Fredericksburg and of course those are a whole I-95 fiasco but what we get here from that about five to seven

I think so wasn't a bad storm yeah and we and we had the one um 2019 right January of 2019 which was a super long duration event and we ended up with you know maybe 10 inches but it lasted for 24 plus almost 30 hours that was a good one in this

yeah it's a long time in that event I don't think a lot of people remember it because it was over a weekend. So the impacts were not, it didn't really interfere with much. And I think, you know, we were able to return back to normal pretty quickly, bounce back after that one. Yeah, I kind of always feel like that the area gets a super bad rap when it comes to, look, we're a transient area, which means, you know, many of the people who are transients don't come from cold weather cities.

But personally, I feel like those of us that are, from here that have lived here our entire lives. You know, the first one's always a pain in the ass, Jason. But usually by the time we get to the second or third one, people do okay. I mean, I'm always very, very, you know, I laugh at the school systems for what they will shut down for in our area. And I think there's this expectation that most people can't handle it. I personally think we do better than most.

And by the way, we end up with a lot of ice in different situations that other, you know, Midwestern and colder cities don't deal with as much. But anyway, I think you and I could talk about this for hours. Absolutely, yeah. And sometimes it's the small events which are most disruptive, you know, because of the timing or, you know, roads not being pre-treated. And, you know, you see sometimes, you know, you get a dusting at the wrong time and with temperatures freezing and you end up with gridlock. But, yeah, I mean, you know, I agree that, you know, sometimes I think we panic too much in the school systems. Don't give people enough credit, but, you know, I think we do get a bad rap, maybe undeservedly. I agree with that.

I don't know how many of you all listening were into it, Jason and I were just talking about, but I don't really care because we enjoyed it. We could have probably done it for another 30 minutes in talking. about the various storms. Like, you sound young enough to not remember the, you know, the actual Washington birthday, which wasn't President's Day back then in 79. And one of my all-time favorites was the 83 storm in February, where the temperatures during the storm were literally in the low teens throughout that storm. The February 83, which is the first time I ever remember thunderstorm. I was in college park.

as a student, as a freshman, and it was, there was literally lightning and thunder as we were outside playing football during that snowstorm. That was a good one, too. Hopefully, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, 83 is the first big snowstorm. I remember. I was seven. Now, 79 storm, I was just three. But, yeah, the 83 storm, I definitely remember that one being out in it, and it was awesome. But for me, actually, sort of the storm, which is, you know, like, what was incredible was the 87 Veterans Day storm. And we had thunderstorm snow and lightning three inch an hour rates. That was pretty incredible. I will never forget it. It was, you know, I was out with a bunch of friends, ended up back at the house of a friend

of mine. We all woke up the next morning, and there was a foot of snow on the ground on Veterans Day in November, which was nuts. There are a lot of of them. I mean, January 2000 was awesome. We could do this. Maybe we'll do this, you know, when we get to winter. But, uh, yeah, have me back for a winner, uh, a winter. Yeah, because that'd be a lot of fun. Yeah, because heat was really supposed to be the reason for the discussion today. Jason, thank you so much. Everybody, not that you probably aren't there already, but follow the Capitol Weather Gang on Twitter. And they'll have, by the way, all weekend long, I'm sure updates on temperatures and pictures, et cetera.

But Jason, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much. You guys do a great job. Hey, thanks for having me. It was a blast. Take care. That was fun. I enjoyed that with Jason Samanelle from the Capitol Weather Gang.

Those guys do such great work. Let's switch it up to end the show. Eddie C, our Triple Crown expert, from both an analysis and a gambling standpoint, joins us now, but let's first relive the unbelievable long-shot win at the Derby nearly two weeks ago. And they're into the stretch and it's Messier, Crown Pride, and Epicenter is coming up on the outside. Epicenter has taken the lead as they arrive into the final furlong.

Sancton is coming after him. Epicenter and Sandin. These two, strive for stride, simplification down the outside. side is next. No, to the wire. He's coming up on the inside. Oh, my goodness. The longest shot has won the Kentucky Derby.

Rick Strike has done it in a stunning, unbelievable upset. All right, two weeks after the stunner at the Kentucky Derby, it's Preakness Day tomorrow at Pimlico Hon. And Eddie C is on with us at It's Meek. Eddie C on Twitter. Eddie's a local, lots of friends in the Montgomery County area. He spends a lot of time

at Saratoga, lives in Florida, and he joins us right now. I mean, we can't go forward until we go back, and I get your thoughts on what was one of the more shocking results in a triple crown race in almost

a century. What did you make of rich strike at the derby? Well, first off, as always, Kevin, thank you for having me on. Appreciate it, and it was great to finally meet you in person. Yeah, we met. Yeah. Yeah, we got to meet, and it was great catching up with all my old Kensington,

you know, Montgomery County boys. That was great. But, yeah, total shocker. And the interesting part is when we did the show a couple weeks ago for the derby, Rich Strike was not in the field yet. He was a last-minute addition because there was somebody, somebody scratched out of the race, and he got added Friday afternoon to the race. So they didn't even know he was running the day before, but they prepared for him and trained him.

And just to go back real quick to the Friday on the Kentucky Oaks, I was feeling great going into Saturday because we nailed that race because he picked Secret Oates to win, and we had neck coming in second. and that leads us to the derby race itself. And the two top picks I had were the three at the center and the 10 Zandon, and they were running down. It looked like it looked like it was going to be right to the wire, and then Rich Strike just came out of nowhere at 80 to 1.

I mean, you talk about a price, and I think the exact paid over $3,000. Yeah. So fortunately, me and a friend of ours, we were at the track at Gulfstream Park and, Florida. And we literally had like $10 left on the voucher. So we put two across on rich strike and did a $1.00 back box with the three and the ten. Wow. It turned out to be a pretty good thing. That's awesome. So it was just, we got $10 left on the voucher. Let's throw

something together with the long shot, which never works. Exactly. It never works. But, you know, fortunately it worked this time, you know. It would have been so aggravating if you You know, it had come in and it wasn't one of the races where you just threw a couple of bucks, you know, putting the long shot together with something. You know, it's funny because a lot of people that listen that bet like you do and I do, and I don't bet the horses anymore. I used to many years ago. But, you know, on a Sunday during the NFL season, you know, it's 1255. You know, we're six minutes away from kickoff. And I know many of you out there will totally identify.

with this. It's like, all right, let me just put together like a three-team money line parlay on the biggest dogs on the board, you know? And it never comes through, but I'll tell you what, it comes through more in the NFL than it does in a horse race. That's for sure. What did you make of the run down the stretch? I mean, it was really incredible. It was like threading a needle the whole way. Well, I would tell you and all your listeners, if you haven't seen it, just Google, aerial view of the Kentucky Derby. It's the greatest ride I've ever seen by a jockey that 99.9% of America had no idea who he was. And, I mean, he just, he was weaving through.

He was very patient. He waited for holes to open up. And then when he turned for home and the rail opened up, the horse just exploded. Now, that also being said, they kind of walked home, meaning they, the last quarter of a mile was, very, very slow. So, but still, you had an 80 to 1 shocker in the derby. Tell everybody about the jockey that ran Rich Strike and the trouble that he recently got in. I read about this maybe a day or two ago.

Well, the, okay, so the thing about the trouble is he got, he has to serve like, I think it's a three-day suspension. I forget exactly how many days it is off the top of my head. But this happened very frequently in horse racing, where maybe a jockey got a little too aggressive on a ride, and he gets a small fine and gets suspended for three days or a week not being able to ride again. It's nothing...

Well, it's... Well, it was described as being a... I'm reading it right now. Four-day suspension for careless riding during a race at Thistledown, east of Cleveland, to which they determined he deliberately and aggressively. This is Sonny Leon. Is it Leon or Leon, however it's pronounced? I think it's Leon.

Yeah, Leon. That he was deliberately and aggressively steering toward the rail to block other horses. The reason I bring it up is, do you consider, this, in the aerial view of the ride of Rich Strike and the derby is amazing. Was there anything careless or aggressive or anything about that ride that was anything other than brilliant? No, absolutely not. Like I said, it's the most brilliant, the best ride that I can remember. I mean, and obviously there's been great rides before Calvin Borell coming down the rail with, I think it was mine that bird, and he won it like 50 to 1.

But no, this was just an impeccably just about perfect ride. And there was nothing, there was no aggressiveness or anything. So tell me, or tell everybody, including me, why after that ride and that win, Rich Strike is not going to be at the Preakness? That part is interesting. obviously it's a storyline because, number one, that eliminates a triple crown possibility of a horse winning the Derby, the Pregneth, and the Belmont States. But it's still kind of like an anomaly. Nobody really knows, you know, they claim the horse is healthy.

They claim the horse is fine, and they just want to point them to different races. and, you know, two weeks after running a mile in the quarter, which the majority of these horses will never run that long again, and having to come and run the preteness, which is just a little bit, it's only like 110 yards shorter, the mile in 316. But that two-week period's pretty short. So my thought is that that race took a lot out of the horse, and maybe he didn't come out of it 100% the way they'd like him to, and if he's healthy, but them's also already saying that they're going to, I think they're going to point him to the Belmont Stakes, actually. So they just wanted to get a few extra weeks because the Belmont Stakes is a mile and a half.

And after that race, just about none of these horses will ever run a mile and a half again. It's pretty grueling. So I think they're just resting them. That's all. I mean, I don't know the answer to this, and maybe I'm way off. but how much plays into the fact that the value of this horse will never be higher and that it can only go down from here? No, that's true.

Right now the value is higher. And I don't believe this has happened, but there also could have been a private sale right after the derby, and then if there's new owners or a new partner, you know, they cooperated together and decided, hey, let's just, you know, let's not abuse this horse. Let's take care of it because the stud value of this horse could be, you know, where they really make their money. And that could be the, you know, the future view is like, hey, we're going to be able to get, you know, $25, $30, $50,000 at stud for this horse moving forward. All right.

Handicap the Preakness for us. Epicenter appears to be, you know, a heavy favorite going in. a lot, many fewer horses per usual than in the derby. What should people be thinking about in terms of where their money should go tomorrow? Okay, well, you know, at the center who, there's only a few horses that ran in the derby that are coming back to run in the pregnes. The derby always has 20 horses, basically. The pregnus has nine this year.

at the center, the heavy favorite, the eight horse at six to five, and deservedly so. Everybody thought he was winning the derby with a hundred yards left, and then all of a sudden, you know, he got passed. But, you know, you've got four horses that are the top four horses in the field, and I think they really do all standout. You got epicenter, the eight horse at six to five. the second choice is a Chad Brown trained horse who skipped the derby called early voting, the five horse, and he's at 72. And then you have the Philly Secret Oath, which is the four horse at 92, and then the one horse simplification, who also ran in the derby, and actually ran a pretty good race,

just had some early trouble and was running late, and he's at six to one. So the race shape is going to be this, in my opinion. You've got the three-horse Fenwick, the five-horse early voting, the seven-horse Argmanic, and the eight-horse Episcenter. They're your speeds, speed horses. So they should be the four horses out front. I think Epicenter should sit right behind those three. And the interesting thing on the seven-horse Argmanic is that was a horse previously trained

by Bob Bafford. So you're going to have three horses battling for the lead. And by the way, I should add that Bob Bafford is suspended from the pre-kness, but he can't have a listed horse training. So they're going to be your speed horses, and then you're going to have four horses, in my opinion, the one simplification, the two creative minister, and the four secret of sitting right in that second flight of horses, you know, behind the speed. and you could have, and then there's a long shot play that I'm going to use to come second and third

is the nine horse Skippy Longstocking, which is just a fantastic name. Yeah. But he could be running. Pipby's brother, I believe. Yeah, exactly. So what is Skippy Longstocking? Where are the odds on that horse? Well, that horse at the moment, I want to say, gosh, start. I don't have it in front of it.

Is it, is it the long shot? I don't think it is, because I think the horse that you mentioned as a potential early speed horse Fenwick is actually the long shot. Yeah, Fenwick is the longest. I think, I think Skippy Longstock has got to be like 15 to 1 or something like that. I just, I apologize. That's all right. That's all right.

I don't have it right in front of me. Okay. So, but anyhow, you know, I'm, I'm going to choose a horse based on, I think it's going to be a little bit of a better price than the favorite. And also, it's got a little heart in it because I picked her to win the Kentucky Oaks, and she went off at six to one in the Oaks, and that was a very nice win. So the way I look at it is, I think the four secret oath, the Philly is going to win the race. And the reason being, there's two reasons why. I think she's going to be able to sit right behind at the center and maybe.

just, you know, hopefully just passes at the center towards the end of the race. And the other reason why I believe that is, because she's a Philly, every male, every cult in the race is carrying 126 pounds. You know, that's with the jockey and any added weight that they put on. Secret oath, because she's a Philly, she gets a five-pound weight allowance. So she's only carrying 121 pounds. that in a race this long is equivalent to, depending on who you ask, anywhere, somewhere around three to four lengths. That's a huge advantage for, you know, especially for a horse that could compete.

So I'm picking at the center, I mean, I'm picking early voting secret oath, the four horse secret oath. I'm picking, you know, at the center is probably going to, it's going to come second and third, along with simplification, in my opinion, the two horse, who I believe ran forth in the derby and was really moving towards the end. And then I'm going to add Pipi Lons stocking as a, you know, as a price that's going to be at least 10, 15 to 1 in the race. And hopefully he completes an exact or trifecta just for value purposes. Gotcha. All right. So repeating, you like Secret Oath, the Philly to win it.

epicenter, you know, to be right there. And in terms of a longer shot to work into, you know, an exact-a-box, you'd go with Skippy long-stocking. Do you give, just for the purposes of even acknowledging it, and we have to after the Derby, do you give Fenwick the long shot in this race right now at 50 to 1, which is what I'm looking at? Do you give Fenwick any shot at all? I mean, normally I would say no chance whatsoever. But he's going to be out front. And if he gets, if he gets to lead by himself, you know, horses get brave, but I don't see it. I just see the horse fading as they turn for home down the home stretch.

I see Fenwick, the three horse, and even early voting and Argue Magnic, I see all three of them fading. Early voting could end up third, but, I mean, again, I think the two horses, to me, that standout are the four secret oath, the Philly, and Epacenter, the eight horse, who's going to be a deserving favorite. And then I'm just trying to hope that maybe somebody can beat Epicenter at second place with simplification or Pippie Long. Now I'm saying, Pippie Long, you know, just to bring value to it. But those two horses are those standout. great job as always eddie c all right follow him on twitter it's me eddie c a legend uh in ktown montgomery county that would be kensington for those that don't know it um and i will talk to you hopefully before the belmont man thanks so much and it was great meeting you the other day hey same here

kevin appreciate it all right that's it for the day uh thanks to eddie c thanks to Jason Samanow, and thanks to Santana Moss for jumping on the show today. Have a great weekend. I'll be back on Monday.