The Kevin Sheehan Show - How "Close" is WFT?

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

Kevin was joined by Ben Standig/The Athletic to talk Washington Football including the idea that Bruce Allen always espoused...."we're close". How close are they actually? The guys debated it. Then, Ben Raby/Caps Radio jumped on to preview the Caps-Bruins first-round series. Lastly, Eddie C from South Florida talked Bob Baffert, Medina Spirit, and gave his "wise-guy" picks for tomorrow's Preakness. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show today presented by MyBooky. My bookie is securing your first deposit bonus up to $1,000 if you use my bonus code, Kevin D.C.

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Go to my bookie.orgie.org. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. And the best part about it, even if you've got another place in which you're betting, you're going to get an extra $1,000, or if you make a $500 deposit, an extra $100 deposit if you want, and you'll get an extra $100 to play with at mybooky.ag using my bonus code, Kevin, D.C. All right, on the show today, we are going to do some Washington football team to start with Ben Standig, and then Ben Raby, who is a part of the Caps radio broadcast team, will be with us to help preview the Boston Bruins Caps.

first round series, which starts tomorrow night. And then we're going to do a little bit of preakness talk to end the show with a gentleman who's been pretty good at picking horse races and can tell us a little bit more about the Bob Baffert situation with his Kentucky Derby winning horse. We'll do that a little bit later. Ben Standing, of course, from The Athletic is with us right now. Subscribe to the Athletic. Follow Ben on Twitter, listen to his podcast. Ben's always busy. So here are the topics for today. The schedule, the addition of Leno, some mini-camp, and then how close are they? Let's go in order.

What did you think of the schedule? What was your reaction to the schedule, especially the five games ending the season all against NFC East opponents? Yeah, it's bonkers, right? To have that slate in a row, and those are obviously every game is important. relative to the overall record, but the division games have extra weight for the obvious reason. And the fact that, you know, it's what, like when we want to project the season out, obviously, as we saw last year, you never know how things are going to go, not just with your team, but the other team. So the fact that with the games that are the most important ones are at the end, and who knows what's going to be happening?

Will they be hot? Will they have lost momentum when they're going through that gauntlet early on against the Mahomes and the Rogers and the Brady's? What will the injury situation be like for them or the other team? it's a pretty fascinating situation to see. And, you know, it also means, of course, if they get off to a bit of a slow star, because they have that tougher schedule early on, there's an opportunity to catch up facing the teams you have to battle with into division head-to-head.

So it's really interesting. And, you know, I don't know if I like it every year, but I think for a one-off at least, it's kind of cool. Yeah, I've sort of decided here in the last couple of days that I don't like it. And the number one reason for not liking it is that it just opens up the possibility that your arch rival games, you know, several of them are going to be meaningless. I hope that's not the case, but it's possible that Washington's four and eight or five and seven going into those final five. Now, if they're five and seven, they've got a chance to make a big run, you know, over the final five. But, you know, in spreading them out more so, even when we've had years in which they've ended with, you know, three straight games against division teams.

It means they've already played those teams three times earlier in the season when at least the season was still hanging in the balance somewhat. And I think a lot of fans, and I would put myself into this category, I've always looked forward to the matchups against the division teams, especially the cowboy games for me over the years, are always, you know, kind of special. playing them twice over a three-game period starting on December 12th, I'm not saying that it's probable, but it's possible that none of those games are going to mean anything. I just, I don't like that as a possibility. I would rather them be more spread out. I don't mind with them ending with Dallas, Philly, and the Giants, you know, in order, or, you know, I would rather have it like Philly. I'd rather have it Giants, Philly Dallas, something like that, to end the regular season, but knowing that we had the big, you know, Sunday night game and, you know, early

September against the Cowboys and maybe a Monday night or against Philly in October, something like that, or at least the Thanksgiving Day game against the Cowboys. I don't know. I just, I've decided over the last 48 hours that I don't love it. But whatever. I do think it's interesting, though, how many people I've talked to that's sort of look at it and say, ooh, two home games to start. Great opportunity to get off to a great start against two average teams. Well, one of those average teams, the Chargers, is favored already

in the opener against Washington. I don't you, did you get the sense sometimes that the people you talk to about the team don't really have a sense as to what the rest of the league and sort of the way they evaluate the team right now? Yeah, I mean, look, I think. I think one thing I've learned over the years is that when you listen to both national pundits and also just random whoever people on Twitter fans uh you know some blogger type whoever it's your perception of a team is is often what the long term one is and you don't always catch up quickly and like we're probably all guilty of that on some level when we look at other teams um as well and yeah like like for example with the erin rogers situation right i don't

think he's going to get traded here. For a different, no other reason they probably would want to move in the NFC. But when you see people mention, well, what about Washington? And a lot of the pushback is, oh, God, why would he want to go to that terrible organization? Where are they going kind of thing? And it's like, well, okay, yes, the owner is still problematic. But obviously, Washington did a lot of good things last year. The roster is pretty intriguing.

What they've done in free agency on paper looks to be pretty solid. You're telling me if Aaron Rogers didn't join what we have here right now, that they wouldn't be right. vaulted into the top of the NFC conversation, of course. But, like, that's not how people still view them. And look, they were seven and nine last year. Right now, only those of us who were watching every week were like, hey, actually, they've won five for the last seven and all that.

But if you just look at it, you know, broadly 10,000 feet, seven and nine, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick. You know, they still have a problem, you know, their ownership is still in the news constantly. It still seems like the same old, same old, which on some big picture, it may be. But, yes, I think in the short term, I don't think people probably see the potential, not since they would win 10 games, but that the potential for this team to improve is there, whether everybody kind of sees it or not. We're going to sort of circle back to part of this conversation in a few minutes. But I'll ask you, what did the signing of Charles Leno the tackle for $5 million one year? What did it say to you about their state of offensive lines specifically at tackle?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think it says that they felt they needed more. I mean, they obviously didn't go and sign a tackle early in free agency in the first wave. They did draft Sam Cosme in round two, but I thought that people were overstating, like he would be the left tackle week one, you know, and talking to scouts and others. It's like, hey, we think this guy's interesting. He's athletic. There's definitely a lot to work with, but he needs more time to work on his sort of basic fundamentals and clean up some of the mechanics and things like that.

never felt to me like he was a week one guy. And obviously, look, Cornelius Lucas was a guy who was brought in to be a swing tackle, who was projected to be much more of a right-side guy. I think maybe to a degree they felt they were fortunate that he was able to hold up as well as he did over the course of the second half last season, but that they needed more. So, you know, I think it says that. And I also think it says something about their level of patience across the board. We've seen this now obviously a quarterback, right?

They didn't panic and go trade up just because everybody says that, well, they have to get long-term answer. They didn't take a guy in round two if they didn't love him. They waited, and same thing here. They obviously felt they needed more a tackle, but they recognized there is more that for agency isn't just those few weeks in March that there is more opportunity down the line. And that's what they thought. The Bears drafted a tackle, and cut Leno to save some money on the cap, and they swooped in and got him. I'm not thinking Jacoby or Samuels or Trent Williams, but he looks like he's an upgrade over what they head. He was the left tackle when Lucas was in Chicago coming off the bench and ending up

starting eight games on the right side. So I think it probably says, you know, something about where those two guys are that we feel what they've already been a direct head-to-head and Lennon was the guy starting. Never leave Jim Lachey out of a listing of the greatest left tackles in franchise history. He may be the most gifted and talented out of all of them. Although Trump Williams was pretty talented. You did pencil in in your story in the athletic, if I recall, reading it the other day, Charles Leno is the starting left tackle. I mean, I don't think that's much, to me, it's sort of like the Ryan Fitzpatrick thing. Rivera will come out and say there'll be a competition and all that stuff.

You think it's that definitive, because Fitzpatrick's the starter. That's a 95% chance, 99% chance. You think Leno's in that same category as a starter at left tackle? Well, I think I said, like, I think he's in the Fitzpatrick role, but slightly less forceful. Like, I mean, I mean, there's something about the money, right? Fitzpatrick is 10 million, but Leno is five. You know, I don't think it's as like, like, it wouldn't like completely for me if he wasn't the starter, but they're bringing him in here to start.

I would be, you know, if you made them pick right now, he's the starter. I would, I would very much think that that's the case. and, you know, look, I mean, he said that as much that they said to him, we want you to be the starter. Now, who knows what they really said or how he interpreted it or whatever. And I've also like the narrative that was coming out immediately on the signing, you know, from his side to the chester's of the world that they try to put that narrative out there. But, yeah, in any event, like I said, I mean, just two years ago, he was the guy.

Look, I guess if you tell me Sam Cosme, just blows everybody's mind, we could maybe have a conversation, but even then I would be stunned if it's not Leno. left tackle. Yeah, I don't think it's that high. By the way, I was talking to Kime earlier on the show. Keep in mind, the one-year $5 million for Leno, put that side by side with Eric Fisher getting $9.4 million from the Chiefs coming off an Achilles injury. I actually think Washington did pretty well. I'm not suggesting that at any point Leno's ever been the player that Fisher was. Don't get me wrong, but Fisher's coming off an Achilles injury, and they're paying him

nearly $10 million a year. And he's not supposed to be ready for week one, I don't think. Oh, I didn't even know that part of it, which doesn't, you know, it sort of makes sense. I just think that one of the things that we've learned in the first year here with Rivera is, you know,

take Sean Davis as an example from last year, they sign him, they give him guaranteed money, they give him $2 or $3 million a guaranteed money on a one-year deal and, you know, everybody pencils them in as the starting free safety opposite Landon Collins, and they cut him. So I don't think anything's, you know, obviously they're not going to do that with Fitzpatrick. But I don't think anything is solidified at left tackle like you do.

I mean, I hope that Leno plays at that level and has that veteran experience and can play at the, you know, the level that when he made the alternate, you know, trip to the pro, that would be awesome if that happened. Here's the other thing that I want to ask you about. I ask kindness. To me, it says that definitively Cedic Charles is a guard, and that's the way they view him.

Do you agree with that or not? Yeah, the Cizek Charles thing is pretty weird to me, because, you know, on top of signing Lano and drafting, Cosme, they just traded for Eric Flowers two days before the draft. So, list is in terms of 2021 solely, I don't think where is Sidique Charles playing? I mean, sure, if he comes into camp and he's the best guard, he could be the starter at left guard over Schweitzer and Flowers.

I don't think that's inconceivable. But at the same time, now, he's played two snaps in the NFL. The other two guys are far more established. And, you know, obviously, Brandon Sheriff, unless there's something afoot there, he's not, you know, Sidney Charles isn't going to play. Now, of course, when you look to the 2022 season, right, Scherf, unless they find the long-term deal, we all probably assume he's not back.

And at that point, I would think Sadiq Charles becomes the leading candidate to be the right guard, where it's tackled. You would still have Cosme and likely Morgan Moses, I would assume, on his deal. So, yeah, I mean, it feels like it's setting up for Sidic Charles to be the 20-22 starter and guard, unless he somehow, you know, really impresses everybody, which is conceivable. I mean, Rivera clearly liked him last year. You just couldn't get on the field enough. So I think that's conceivable for sure.

And by the way, just on the Leno thing, like the thing that Rivera has done here is they have a lot of competition across the board. You can look at the offensive line. You can look at receiver, maybe a couple other spots, where we can all assume certain things. But if somebody falls on their face, then there is, there are other options. And like Leno has been a more proven starter than where Sean Davis was at that point. I did think Sean Davis would be the starter when considering

what was the interruptions, like we said, Troy Acki and all. But obviously he fell flat, but David didn't come in with nearly the immediate resume that Leno did. It was more of a flyer, but I guess I just assumed that a lot of people did as well, that he would beat out Troy Afti, let alone make the team. They obviously decided to move on. But in this case, based on Leno having started every game for the last six years or whatever it is, that would just surprise me if they brought him in to then have Lucas start or anybody else start week one.

you did suggest something that I've talked about over the last week, and I'm not saying that you predicted it or said that it was likely, but in your recent column that you wrote, and I think it was after they signed Leno the other day, you threw in just the possibility with all these offensive linemen and with flowers and maybe Charles and others at guard about the possibility of trying to get more for Brandon Sheriff if they expect to lose them than the team did for Kirk Cousins when they lost him.

So do you think there's any chance that they deal Brandon Sheriff before the season starts? Obviously before the trade deadline, if they are headed towards a non-playoff season, is very much in play. But you threw that out there and you're, I don't have the exact quote or the exact paragraph, but I did read your story and you suggested that, you know, could be in play. play? Well, I mean, like, I, and to be clear, like, I don't have any intel that tells me, I mean, I have half the round, I haven't heard anything to suggest there's trade whispers out there. But it just is a very weird dynamic. Like, so if you look at the, like, nine offensive

line, and keeping nine is a number that like a lot of teams probably end up with, right? So let's just say that's Leno, that's, let's just say, Fargo and take flowers, Ruiz, Sherf and Moses. Then behind them, you have Cosmian Lucas, you have Sadiq Charles and they'll take Keith Ismail is the backup center. I'm forgetting somebody here

that's pretty good. Who else am I forgetting? On the offensive line? Did you mention Schweitzer, Martin? Oh, Schweitzer, right. No, Schweitzer. I forgot twice. So that's 10. Okay, so okay, 10 is not a crazy number. Now, the rest of the guys, and I'm not saying that Jaron Christian or West Martin are worthy of the roster.

But they were for the week one starter last year. You think they would at least be in the mix? They signed Tyler Larson, a guy who's been in the league for a few years, having played his entire career, Carolina. They brought him in for a nothing contract, but regardless of they brought him in that, they didn't do that on a whim. And then also, like, I got like David Sharp, who they traded for last year, and ended up starting a couple games when injury struck. Like, all those guys that just said have no prayer of making this roster. or a barring injury as it's currently constituted. So I get it, competition, competition, competition.

But at the same point, they have a lot of bodies. Now, maybe that works out for their favor. Maybe when we get to August and other teams are starting to have issues. Maybe they're the team that has access and can trade somebody and pick up a day three pick like they traded one away kind of last year. With Sharp, they ended up getting one back, but they traded a seventh first, a six for a seventh or whatever. So I really just feels odd.

And I guess what up, well, the one variable we don't know is, To what the degree does Ron Rivera view, if he viewed it as, look, we're going to worry about 2021. He did kind of say this the other day, not about Sheriff, but just in general, the idea of like, we don't know what's going to happen down the line. We're just going to worry about now. And maybe he says, screw it. We'll just play out this year. Whatever happens happens, we'll deal with it. Or maybe he thinks, hey, we want to build this thing over the long haul. And over time, we need to maximize our assets. And we think maybe trading Shurf to get more things than, like, if the third round compensatory pick is the baseline and they can get more.

more for that in a trade. And they don't think the drop off from Shirf to anybody else at guard, I mean, it's going to be significant, but they don't think it'll be so dramatic or it's worth the trade cost. Maybe, I would just like to know what he thinks about that. That's sort of the unknown variable here. How does Rivera view all that? I mean, the most likely scenario is Shurf and Moses are on the right side, right? I don't think that's, I think that's the easy way to go, and I would be stunned if it's not,

but at the same point, man, they do have a lot of offensive linemen all of a sudden who are at least NFL viable, and it does make you wonder to what is the point. Is it purely competition or is there something else? I think any time they probably would think about, okay, we can get more, especially if a team's got a lot of cap space and they're willing to give him a long-term deal and he's willing to agree to it. You know, we could get a lot more now than maybe the compensatory pick. But I know this, because I remember this at the end of the season,

somebody telling me about the sheriff's situation, go back and look at what Aaron Donald did to the game that he played against us without Brandon Sheriff there and tell me if you don't think we need Brandon Sheriff. Aaron Donald single-handedly wrecked that Rams Skins game. That was the game where Alex Smith was literally ravaged for 30 minutes in the second half. Kyle Allen got knocked out of the game and Brandon Sheriff did not play in that game. All right. Mini Camp starts today.

The people that you talk to, who are, I mean, this is one of those things where because there aren't veterans and they're only 15 to 20 or whatever it will be of rookie players over the weekend. Sometimes it's really hard to learn about what you have. But other than, you know, Jamin Davis, who do you think the staff is looking forward to seeing this weekend up close and personal as one of their own more than anybody else? Is there someone?

Well, I think it's going to be 16 players, which is obviously not even enough to do 11 on 11, even if you had an equal number of players on both sides and all that. Right. Plus, at the moment, you and I are talking kind of earlier in the morning, it appears at practice, whatever this is going to be, it isn't even going to be terribly long. So I don't know what this is really going to look like.

It's not the usual rookie camper you have, you know, dozens of try-out players. They weren't even going to have that because of the normal, because of COVID, and then because one of the tri-out players tested positive, the five that they had, those guys are not even coming. So I don't really know what we're going to be looking at here other than just a chance to see people on the field and get a, you know, for the coaching staff to get a look at them in person.

I'll tell you who I'm, I think one of the more intriguing players, to be honest, isn't even one of the draft picks. I think it's Sammis Reyes, the tight end, you know, who they found in that international camp because it is the epitome of the unknown. They have studied all the other players to some degree at length, right? I mean, whether you're talking about Jamie Davis on the front end or the, you know, Shaka Tony, one of the defensive end, they took in the seventh round. They've studied these guys.

Samus Reyes kind of came out of nowhere, and that is a position where I have no idea what it's going to look like beyond Logan Thomas. We can presume John Bates, the fourth round pick will also make the roster. I guess it's pretty safe assumption, but, you know, who knows what happened to beyond that? I think Reyes is a really interesting player because, I mean, I remember hearing about him before I even knew who he was when I had a couple people in the league telling me there's some kid who looks like Gruncowski who's from some other country and look out for this guy.

So I think that one's interesting. You know, beyond that, I mean, I think like, I think like Diami Brown and Benjamin St. Juice, the third round pick, like, I think those are two guys who have a lot of intrigue that if things go right, they could be contributors pretty quickly. There's room for both of them as either the third receiver or the, you know, third, fourth, cornerback to go, and they both have a lot of intriguing athletic trait. So I think those guys, to see them out on the field, you know, again, I mean, again, we'll see what this really looks like. But I think to see those guys on the field, you know,

maybe we'll start to give the coaching staff a sense of how quickly those guys are able to contribute. Just out of curiosity, I was just thinking about this. Who's the quarterback in rookie minicamp this weekend? Stephen Montez is going to be out there. He's one of the five, they have five guys who were with the team last year. He's the one that people would have heard of more or less. And, yeah, he's the quarterback. Of course, you know, I reported during the off season that they're going to look at him perhaps

in a bit of a Tatham Hill role, but in terms of, you know, either making the team or whatever. But for now, I would presume, you know, they're going to look at him as, you know, a quarterback. They didn't draft one, obviously. He didn't draft one, obviously, too, he's the project at that position at a minimum and possibly having to do some other stuff. But, again, I probably not this weekend. All right. Last topic with Ben Standing.

So I got an email from a friend of mine. He's one of my, you know, they're like, I don't know, I bet everybody has this group of friends that you really think, at least among yourselves, you're having like really smart conversations about the football team or about the NFL. You know, there are definitely people in my life where it's like, oh God, I don't really want to have a conversation about the team with you. because I really don't think you have any clue as to what's going on.

But that would presume that I have like a significant clue. And I think we all fancy ourselves. Ben would include that to be sort of sharp opinion people on the team, but that's obviously a subjective thing. Anyway, this friend of mine, Zach, who appears in my life every year, you know, during football season or draft time, and we end up having these conversations, usually by text, sometimes by phone.

He sent me this email and he said, essentially, I'm just sort of sick and tired of your take on Aaron Rogers. You know, I just think you're way off. And I'll just read part of what he emailed me. He said, Kevin, we're close. And your insistence that Aaron Rogers be our quarterback will derail what Ron is building. Not only do you want to mortgage the future, You want to move us away from being close because you want players included.

This is the closest we've been in 30 years. Good coach, good front office, great defense, veteran quarterback to groom maybe the future quarterback who might already be on the roster. Aaron Rogers is a short-term solution to nothing other than a few playoff games and maybe a win or two. That's not the goal. The goal is winning at all. keep building it the right way. Whereas your friend Bruce Allen would say, we're close, or at least we're getting closer.

First of all, I don't know how much of a friend Bruce Allen was, but he did say several times. We're close. Anyway, I know that there's been a lot of conversation among a lot of the people listening over the last couple of weeks. And there was a conversation right when the season ended on what the solution is. is at quarterback. You know, I hope there's at least a recognition from most of you that the preference would be to try to have a great quarterback on your team for like 10 years, rather than just having a really good team and just sort of figuring the quarterback thing out at some point and hopefully having something that's satisfactory. That's not the path to, you know, 10 years

of being a legitimate contender. You've got to have that position solidified. I think most most people do realize that. But at the same time, Ben, when I did this poll last week about the Bill Barnwell, you know, putting Washington is the second most likely of the teams to land Aaron Rogers if he's actually dealt behind Denver. And he said two first, two seconds, Matt Ionitis and Ryan Fitzpatrick, I just was surprised that like 99% of the people didn't say, oh my God, let's do that. Can we do that now? Two thirds of the people. said, let's do it now, but a third of like 6,000 people that responded to this poll said no. And so the conversation has sort of continued. I don't really want to have a conversation about

Aaron Rogers specifically, but I want to ask you, and then I'll give you my answer afterwards. Do you think they're close? And if so, how close? Like, describe what that means. Like, how close do you think they are to legitimately contending for a Super Bowl? So the position that we're discussing is the massive variable, right? Because this is why whatever quarterback you want to discuss, but Rogers in particular, because he is that level. I mean, even more than, like, when we were talking about, like, the Sean Watson earlier in the off season before his legal stuff came up,

I wasn't as excited about that one because they were talking about trading picks for this draft, which he was. they weren't, I mean, I know it's only been one draft and one off-season, but they're now closer, in theory, than they were earlier in the off-season, because they've now made these moves, and we've seen what they've done, and they've addressed some areas of need. If you were to trade for Rogers now, you're trading future stuff, even if you're trading ionitis, I included Doran Payne in the offer I made, because I thought that realistically probably what Barnwell had, there wasn't enough, but okay, whatever, even still, like, you, you now have these extra, You have this draft have had happened. We don't know what the future is going to hold. I think if you told me you add Aaron Rogers to what this team is now, based on what our assumptions are of the young players and where they're going,

I do think that they would be right there in the mix with whoever you think is the top of the NFC. Because Aaron Rogers is that good. I mean, on the assumption that Aaron Rogers, like everybody else, is a big turn into a round of air fan. I mean, I don't know the fact they both went to Cal if that held with the cause, but it can't hurt. And again, it's not like you would be bringing in Rogers to the football dysfunction that was going on here for the last decade. That, I would think, would be a mistake.

This feels different. And like I said, if you're trading away, I'll player, pick whichever defensive linemen you think we'd need to get the deal done if that's where we're going. And future picks, how much you really messing with this team right now, especially with the defensive tackle, whichever one you think? Like, they had that the position actually have significant depth. So I don't think they're close as it stands, meaning I think they could get to maybe 10 wins or something, but I got over there to put them in the top tier with what the current has. You tell me Aaron Rogers is the quarterback. Yeah, that's a whole other deal.

And to your friend, Zach, who I'm sure is a like nice guy, feel free to email me at B-standic at the athletic.com, because your take is nuts. They should be exploring this hypothetically, if Green Bay is even willing, which I doubt they are. but if they're even willing, because Washington has done enough and Rivera, both from a culture perspective with Rivera and, and by the way, I don't even think you're sacrificing that much of the future. Like, let's say it is 2-1 and 2-2-2. That's not nothing.

All right, don't get me wrong. But you still have a lot of other picks. This isn't the NBA where if you're trading with all your first-round picks, you've got nothing because there is no other graph. You still would have all your other picks, and you can make other moves to acquire other picks or whatever. So it's not like they just giving away everything. Look, I mean, look at the first and second round picks we've had here the last few years.

They all worked out? No. So I don't think it's that crazy at all to get a guy like Rogers. He is that much of a difference maker. You know, other players, maybe not him. Yes. They're not close right now because if you look at the NFC, Tampa Bay, Green Bay, Seattle, the Rams, and even the 49ers are all demonstrably closer to being in a Super Bowl.

than Washington is. I just gave you five teams. Now, that assumes Rogers stays in Green Bay. And then I can give you another four that you could debate are, you know, on par or have a better chance or are closer, Dallas, the Saints, Arizona, and Minnesota. You could certainly debate that those teams are closer. So I just gave you a list of nine teams. I'm not saying the last four that I just gave you that you couldn't debate that Washington is close. than those four teams, okay? You can. I'm just saying that it's a debate. It's not a lock. That puts him at, you know, number six best case scenario, which is not close to contending for a Super Bowl, because that's barely close enough to contending for a wild card spot and being in the postseason. And potentially, potentially, you know, I've got them, you know, at ninth or tenth among 16 NFC teams. By the way, that's exactly the way the handicappers in Vegas have it. They basically have Washington's over-under total for wins coming up is like ninth in the NFC,

and their odds to win the NFC championship like ninth among 16 teams. So that's not just my opinion. That's the opinion of the odds makers, you know, in every place where they make, you know, futures odds on the NFL. If you put Aaron Rogers on the team this year and gave up the two, first two seconds and Matt Ionitis and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Washington is the second pick to win the NFC championship. There's only one team, and that is Tampa Bay that is ahead of them. Everybody else, Washington, you know, basically moves in front of. So we're talking about, like

Kimes said to me this morning, he goes, look, you accelerate it with Aaron Rogers. You accelerate the closeness. And I said, no, no, you do more of this. accelerated. You guarantee the closeness. And nothing else that you can do right now for the next couple of years gives you the guarantee that Rogers would give you, which is you become immediately, immediately an NFC championship going to the Super Bowl, legitimate contender, a top two contender. So I don't get any of you that say that you wouldn't do this for the building it right, whatever the hell that means. Build it right, and in two years we'll find the quarterback. Good luck with that. I do think, and it sounds like you think the same thing, maybe you

wouldn't describe it this way. Tommy described it as malpractice if they're not aggressive going after Rogers if he's actually available. I agree with him. Now, not landing him isn't malpractice, because they don't have total control over it. Like you said, and I agree with you, if he does get traded, I think it's going to be to Denver. I think they're going to want to move them to an AFC team, not an NFC team. So I think the hypothetical on Rogers is a long-reach hypothetical. I agree with those of you who say that. But the point is that if he is available,

I want them to be super aggressive going after it in sort of the same way, but even more so than they were with Stafford. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like one thing that always happens in any of these conversations is when we start talking specific, people get hung up on that versus the philosophy behind this. Like I said, I wasn't that excited about the idea of trading for Deshaun Watson, but in part because there was no chance they were going to get him. Even if they were willing to trade three ones and three-two, it seems like the jets and the dolphins had much better

ammo. And he had a no trade clause, he had a no trade clause so he could dictate where he went. Right, but everything even like beyond those that aspect, I'm just there were other teams that had way better opportunities to get him. This is different. The playing field is much smaller. It's sort of like when we talk about, when there was a point, whenever he was saying, the Wizards have got to trade Bradwick Bill.

And once the season started, Mike, why would you trade him in the season? You're limiting the amount of teams. There's only like a handful of teams that could even do it. If you wait for the off season to do it, the whole league is essentially now open for business. It's the same thing now, but now in reverse. You're the team.

You're one of the few teams that would actually make sense to make this move. So you're working against a much smaller group of competition. I end though in theory, everybody would say, let's go for Aaron Rogers. But most of the league has some form of quarterback or they don't have the stuff. I mean, one reason why Washington could make this hypothetical trade is

they actually have depth at this defensive-line position, particularly inside, that if they use Barnwell's idea of ionitis, like I'm not just counting Ionitis who led the team in fact in 2019, but like, you know, I don't think, how would you even notice it to that extent? I don't, a barring injury, I don't think so. And, yeah, like you said, look, Rogers is, you know, whatever he is. 37, about to be 38 or so on. Like that's obviously not

that's way up there, and who knows how much more time he has, of course, we now have seen other quarterback, Tom Brady, most notably, but even Drew Bree's play at an older, play well at an older age. And Rogers is showing no side of falling up again. He just won the MVP this year. So assuming that he is

mentally there and not actually viewing this jeopardy thing or anything else as something he legitimately wants to do now, he's going to be here for a few years. And while I completely, agree with Washington's decision to not draft a quarterback. To all they agree, there's more opportunities.

There's no guarantee that you will get somebody, right? There's no guarantee, even if you're traded up for Justin Field. He turns into anybody good. I know Aaron Rogers is an all-time legend. So, like, I don't even understand the debate. Coming off an MVP season. Yeah, right. I mean, yeah, he's, right. At least with

even like with Brady, you're sort of like, well, you know, I think Brady's still really good, but to what, to what end he wasn't as, you know, New England's last year was kind of a little whatever. And then last year, obviously, he played really well. Rogers is already playing really well. So, yeah, I mean, to me, it's more about the philosophy of it than it is the specifics because I don't think it's likely that he actually gets moved or comes here.

But, yes, I absolutely do not view that they would be mortgaging anything to trade him. And if anything, it would put them in position for the first time in how many years to contend, that's not nothing. And by the way, if you're the organization, this isn't Rivera's issue per se, but if you're the bigger organization, you want people back in the stands? Go get Aaron Rogers. You haven't had any excitement around here.

You haven't had any excitement around here for several years now. People have been miserable about this team, and even if there's a little more positive vibes now, it's not at a rock star level. Yeah, and don't give me the Donovan McNabb comparison, you know, in terms of marketing angle. Lastly, if you could give me, you know, just sum it up in 60 seconds or less, you had a source that told you about Snyder's involvement or lack thereof

during the draft. Yeah, I mean, when we saw the TB go to the Washington's draft room, there was no Dan Snyder, which is unusual based on history. He is typically front and center with a cigar hanging out in the mix. Obviously, maybe some years more than others. he's pushing certain theories or certain plans as to what he wants, I, he's going to happen. But he was not there this time.

And what I was told was that, yes, Rod Rivera let Dan Snyder know what their plans were before the draft. And as it went through each time, whether they were making picks or contemplating trades, that Dan Snyder was, you know, informed, but was not pushing for anything particular. that he was, he heard what they were looking to do. He seemed to be, if I say accepting of it, I don't mean it like he was begrudging, but he seemed to be okay, that makes sense, and kind of moved on, and ultimately it felt like a Ron Rivera controlled draft. And obviously that, well, that's kind of what you want.

Obviously, you want the football people making the football decisions, and not the owner who's shown no capacity for doing that successfully over his time. So all that seems positive. I always go back to, of course, what somebody told me right at the point that Rivera got hired and started saying all the nice things, was that, you know, Ron Rivera has not yet met Dan Snyder. That Dan Snyder is good at the beginning of relationships, but give it time. So we'll see what happens over time, but as of right now,

and I think this has been born out based on everything we've seen, this is Ron Rivera's show right now. Plus, obviously, as you've discussed 100 times, Dan Snyder is dealing with a lot of things off the field that I'm sure is focusing his time and to become a great dealing with, you know, whether you're drafting Sam Cosme or Davis Mills in the same. second round is probably not high in his priority list. So, you know, he's not as that as a focus on those things I would guess.

But nonetheless, it wouldn't take much to just jump in and say, no, this is what I want. And apparently, he did not do that. Interesting. No Beth Wilkinson report or update to that story in the last few weeks. Thank you, as always. At Ben Standing on Twitter. Subscribe to the athletic and read Ben on the athletic. And listen to his podcast.

room only. You can get it anywhere you get a podcast. Have a great weekend. Appreciate it. Absolutely, man. Thanks. The NHL playoffs start tomorrow. Caps Bruins tomorrow night, game one at Capital One Arena. Ben Raby's been doing the pre-and-post game show for Caps Radio for a long, long time now. He'll be our guest next, right after this word from one of our sponsors. Tomorrow night, Game One, Caps Bruins, as the NHL playoffs are here, about a month.

month after they usually start, but obviously the weird year that we've lived through, the 56 game schedule. And here we are in sort of a revamped division situation. They're going to play all the teams in their division. That's all the teams they've played all year long, and they have already seen the Bruins eight times this year. And now game one tomorrow night at Capitol 1 Arena. 25% capacity, I believe, to start these playoffs at home. Game 1 tomorrow night. Joining us on the podcast is Ben Rabi. Ben Rabi is in his 12th season of hosting the pregame show, the post game show, all the intermission stuff on the Caps radio network. Ben, thanks for making time for me. It's such a weird thing, you know, the whole season this year and the schedule where

they played just the teams in their division and some of these teams weren't even in their normal division set up. I actually had Brendan, Dylan on the radio show this morning. And I said, you know, this is strange. You know, your first round opponent is a team that wasn't normally in your division. They were this year. You've already played them eight times. Is that a help or a hindrance?

I mean, they're very familiar with these teams. You follow this sport. You've watched it. It's a weird thing we're getting ready to embark on, isn't it? Yeah, I will say, Kevin. It finally took the capitals and Bruins being in the same division under the this unique format this year to meet again in the playoff for the first time since 2012. And what I mean by that is in the nine years since,

there's been opportunities for these teams to meet potentially in an Eastern Conference final or deeper in the postseason. A case could be made, the Capitals and Bruins, Kevin. These have been among the class of the Eastern Conference, really, for the past decade. And here they are, it took them being in the same division to finally cross past postseason time. And regarding the eight matchups in the regular season and the other, other night, the dress rehearsal, the regular season finale, that was a little bit of a farce in terms of who wasn't in the Boston Bruins lineup. They sat 16 regulars. But as far as

any familiarity, I will say, Kevin, that the Bruins really the last month have been a little bit of a different team than what the Capitals dealt with earlier this season. And what I mean by that quickly is they're very healthy and they made a couple of key acquisitions at the trade deadline, former league MVP, Taylor Hall, part of that group. So it's a team in Boston. that's, you know, the cliche is playing their best hockey at the most important time of the year as they get set for postseason play. But that rings true for Boston. The past month, even with that defeat the other night in the regular season finale, a 12-4-and-one record. And that record is a good indication of what the capitals will be facing starting tomorrow night. You know, you're now,

like, the third or fourth person that has sort of, you know, indicated, and we'll get to your prediction, but it's sort of indicated that this isn't the best of magic. catch-ups necessarily, or from the timing standpoint, may not be. By the way, you mentioned the game, you know, the series in 2012. That, of course, was the Joel Ward game winner in overtime of Game 7, which was a thrilling series and such a thrilling ending and so memorable, you know, especially given what he was going through in that particular city with that, you know, very harsh fan base. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that series.

And you mentioned off the top, my 12 season here, part of the radio team, that series, 2018 is kind of its own chapter, but that series in 2012 I've maintained has been one of my favorites over the past decade plus in the Ovecgenera here. A reminder, seven games, all seven were decided by just one goal. It was the first time in NHL history, a series had gone the distance with all seven decided by one goal, four of them beyond regulation fittingly game seven. to overtime, Joel Ward, the game-winning hero in that game. But, yeah, that was a terrific series.

A couple of holdovers since then, but for the most part, I don't know the fresh faces. But that series was terrific. And also, Kevin, when you talk about the matchup, and maybe this not being the best matchup for the capitals in terms of Boston, I'll say that in terms of how well Boston is playing of late, in terms of, again, being healthy, whereas the capitals have some question marks with their lines.

lineup. Stylistically, though, I actually think this is, I wouldn't say a great matchup for the capitals, but it's two teams that are very similarly built. There's a combination of size and heaviness and high-end skill. I think for neutral observers, you know, across the country, if you don't have a, you know, a dog in a race here, it's just a terrific. This should be a really, really good entertaining high-end series here. You know, when you mention there are just a couple holdovers, obviously Alex Ovechkin and Nicholas Baxter, or two of them, and I'm wondering, if you believe that there's a sense of urgency right now. You know, Ovechkin's obviously not been healthy.

He got some on-ice opportunity in the season finale the other day against the Bruins. Hopefully he's healthy. Hopefully he's Alex Ovechkin in these playoffs. But he is 35 years old. And, you know, you've got the two, you know, guys that have been around forever here. And do you think there's any sense that they better get? something done here in this postseason because the window is closing. I know we've said that before and then they won the Cup in 2018, but you know it's a banged up year for him in particular,

and others, by the way, on the roster. I want to get to that in a moment. But what do you think the team feeling is about this postseason as it relates to those, you know, legendary players? Yeah. Kevin, I think when the Ovechkin and Baxter era ultimately comes to an end, and I don't want to over-dramatize here, but I think right now, one of the more under-acknowledged storylines with their tenure, you think before the Cup, before 2018, they had missed opportunities, President's trophy-winning teams that came up short in postseason play. I think one of the under-acknowledged stories over the past two years since they won the Cup is the early playoff exits they had in 2019, and last year it was unorthodox, it was a bubble, et cetera, but they didn't

show themselves well at all in last year's playoff run. And what I'm getting at is you win the cup in 2018, maybe a buy-evia a couple of years from the fan base, from the marketplace, this is honeymoon period, et cetera. I really think the past two years, when all is said and done years from now, I think you can look back at how well Baxter and Ovechkin played in 19 and 20 in those seasons, and those were real missed opportunities by the team as a whole, organizationally. And now you get to this year where they are banged up, where you do have an inexperienced goaltender, where you do have a very difficult first-round opponent in the Boston Bruins, and I'll continue

to come back to the fact I really believe 19 and 20 were missed opportunities to maybe have gone deeper and given yourself the opportunity for another cup run. and now I do think for that reason as well, yes, there's urgency this year. But I keep coming back to the fact that the previous two years, the missed opportunities, that's partly what makes this year even more urgent. And you just hope for their sake that, you know, health-wise and the question marks that are surrounding the club, you know, they are ultimately able to answer. That's a really good point because, you know, if, let's just say they had beaten Carolina in 2019

is the defending champs and gone out in the next round or the Eastern Conference finals. And last year, they didn't go out meekly to the Islanders, which they did in five games, but they advanced and they lost in the next round. It wouldn't have felt the last two years like it was a return to previous form. You know, losing in the first round in a seventh game and double overtime to Carolina, you know, after having a series lead, sort of felt. like, you know, same old, same old. And I think if they had advanced further in the playoffs, even without winning the

cup, there might be a different sense of urgency. I think that's a really interesting take. And I think it's accurate. But with that said, because of the last two years, there is a bit of urgency right now. And the fact that Alex may actually be getting old for the first time. Yeah. And, I mean, I've learned he never count them out, that's for sure. I'm curious to see how he'd handle the start of these playoffs,

just because what he's gone through just over the past few weeks is literally unfamiliar and uncharted territory for him to have missed seven out of eight games down the stretch due to injury. He had never missed more than six games in a single season due to injury. He missed games for personal reasons, like suspension, et cetera. But as far as missing that many games, to injury and the fact that it was down the stretch and they were competing for first place in the division, home ice advantage. In other words, there were things at stake and they were

severely short-handed around Ovechkin. And if there was any way he could have played, I'm sure he would have. He tried to do that one night against the Rangers. He only lasted one shift. That's the only ice time he had over that eight-game stretch before finally getting back on Tuesday in the season finale, which was good to see. So I'm curious to see how he shows himself here in the first round. I'm sure the Boston Bruins will introduce themselves and use the body and try to affect Ovechkin in that manner. But, yeah, again, I come back to the fact he showed himself well each of the two previous springs, and I hope he can this year again, and I hope for his sake his teammates are along for the ride, whereas in the previous two springs, they weren't all

on board. So who is going to be on board, healthy and ready? I mean, what's your guess on O'Shee, on Carlson, on Cousy, et cetera. Like, I mean, they could be hurting here, you know, entering this series. Oh, for sure. Well, I guess you could say there's almost different tiers of them. John Carlson has acknowledged himself. He's good to go. Who knows how close to 100% he is.

He missed the final two games with this nagging lower body injury, but he's good to go. He'll play. He'll be back on the top there. I'm sure with Dimitriorov, he'll get his allotment of minutes. T.J. O'Shee has been on the ice this week, So that's an encouraging sign. I'm not sure that he'll be back for game one,

but the fact that he's been skating took part in limited drills with his teammates that at least suggests, just speculation, Kevin, but that at least suggests probably within a week, if not the start of the series, perhaps as the series gets deeper and shifts to Boston. The fact he's on the ice that's a good sign for Oshie. All right, Kuznetsov, this is a whole other story here, Kevin. Explain everything right now.

For everybody that... I don't know. I don't know. What's the... reaction from teammates and the hardcore fan base about the Kuznetsov situation? Are they getting tired of it? Yeah, I mean, there's a long story. It's a long explanation. But the brief, the background here is again, second time this season, he's been placed on the COVID list. The first time in late January, he tested positive for the coronavirus, and he had symptoms,

and he was in not in good shape. And he was off the ice out of the gym for three weeks. It took them a while to get back. So you wonder, how is beyond the COVID list again now, and should mention the NHL's definition of COVID list. There's different reasons you could be on there. Could be a positive test. Could be exposure to someone who tested positive. There's various reasons you could find yourself there. But the point being, it sounds like there hasn't been a clear explanation, but you read between the lines. He and Elia Sampsonov at first were not suspended, but they were not dressed for a night by the team for breaking team rules. The company line was they were late to a team meeting.

This was with just over a week to go in the regular season, and the next day they're placed on the COVID list. So it would suggest that there was something off the ice behavior, you know, were they breaking rules, et cetera, and here they are on the COVID list. The antenna goes up, Kevin, when it's a player like Kuznetsov, in its seventh year, seventh full season with the team, at the NHL level. This isn't a rookie. This isn't a kid on an entry-level deal. He's the third

highest player on the team. He's such a key cog and valuable piece to the team when he's on his game, which is a big F, but when he's on his game, he's so tremendously valuable. And for a player with that experience, with that resume, with that position in the team's depth chart, for him to be making decisions like that that put the whole team, you know, it affected the whole team down the stretch with so much of the same. stake down the line, it's a head scratcher, and it's not good. And the rookie, not rookie, but second-year goaltender and Elias Sampsonov is along with Kuznetsov. When you try to build a culture and all those buzzwords, it's disappointing when such a valuable piece to your lineup,

again, puts the whole team in a difficult spot. Didn't only affect him. There was a trickle-down effect. They were so short-handed down the stretch, not a good look. And who knows when he returns, because in the meantime, he still hasn't been on the ice as of this recording. What's your level of concern about the lack of playoff experience, the lack of overall experience of the two goaltenders who will likely play for them in this series? Yeah, and we'll see if Sam Furnoff play. That's a big gift right there, because, again, he's been off the ice, and he won't even have, Kevin, he won't even have the opportunity to do conditioning stintnerchy

like he did weeks ago, you know, months ago when he came off the COVID list. Hershey season ends this weekend. So I don't know what they're doing with Sansohnov, what the plan will be there. I think you ride with Vanichick now and you have a veteran in Anderson to back them up. As far as the experience, we'll see how that plays out. I just think more the eye test, Kevin, is that Vanichick has been a good, to very good goalie during the regular season, just not great if you follow. And that's just eye test some numbers.

support that as well. He was sort of middle of the pack in the NHL rankings for the typical, say, percentage goals against average, et cetera. But sometimes in the postseason, you need a goaltender to steal a game or two. And we'll bring a full circle now. We brought up 2012 against Boston. Capitals had an inexperienced rookie goaltender named Braden Holpe that spring. And granted it was a very defensively minded team with Dale Hunter behind the bench. The team was laying out and blocking shots galore. But Holpey... Ovechkin didn't love it. He loved that. He didn't love being a plumber.

No. But Holpey, I mean, there were nights. Hope he was stopping 40 plus shots in that series against Boston. I referenced four of the games went beyond regulation. He was making 40, 40 plus stops the night, Holpey in that series. He was excellent. It was his coming out party.

And you need a goaltender to do that, to bail your team out from time to time, especially in both seasons time. And what I'm getting that is in the regular season, I'll say we didn't necessarily see. enough of that from Vitech Vanechek VATCHC consistently enough. Coming up with the big save at a big moment, you know, there's an unforced error,

a turnover in front of him. Barry Trott used to use the expression. The best goaltenders are erasers. They mask what takes place in front of them. And Vtec Vtec Vannichick, there was just a yearning for a little bit more of that. That separates the great goaltenders

from the very good ones. The great ones that can really, you know, again, bail the team out, come up with big saves at big moments, keep your team in a game, maintain a late lead. And here's hope, and Vanichick has that in him come postseason time. He's not the right to be the number one because of what isn't here right now, what isn't available.

And, you know, here's hoping again. He could take his game to another level now because I think they'll need him to. The last two years we've already talked about the last two years in the results. And, you know, we could do probably a half an hour on what would have happened had Barry Trots been the coach instead of Todd Reardon in those two follow-up years to their Stanley Cup year. That aside, what is going to be the difference, the noticeable difference to, you know, the fans that tune in more this time a year than during the regular season between LaVuette and Reardon? I just think that the team has been, the team has dealt with a lot this year from the injuries,

from the absences due to COVID reasons, from a lot of different. issues that they've been forced to deal with the inexperienced goaltending tandem, and through it all, look, when the dust settles, they were still competing for first place at the end of the regular season. And I think a lot of that credit has to go to the head coach just in terms of not letting this get off the rails when it could have throughout the year. And the other thing, I think you'll notice, we saw it plenty of times in the regular season. And again, it's such a buzzword, but that accountability. And if you're not performing, if you take a bad penalty, if you're underachieving, he's not afraid to sit yet. It doesn't matter the name on the back of

your jersey. And when I talk about in the previous two springs, there have been passengers, there have been players who didn't live up to their expectations. Because that's part of that. Jacob Verona, who was traded weeks ago to Detroit, he underachieved in the previous two spring. If there are headliners, even, who aren't at their best on a given night, their minutes will be managed, their minutes will be monitored. Peter Lavillette isn't afraid to ride players, maybe lower down the depth chart. Maybe he don't make as much money. And that takes an experience head coach sometimes to make those decisions.

He hasn't been afraid to do that in the regular season. I don't anticipate that changing now in the playoffs. All right. Last one, and I will let you run. You sort of, you know, given us a tell on what you think of this series to a certain degree because of the way the Bruins have been playing more than anything else. What's your prediction and why? That's a tough spot here, Kevin, working with the captain.

The Capitol Radio Network, I'm sure you would appreciate that. And I can appreciate that. But what's your gut tell you about how this series plays out? My gut tells me it's going to be a very difficult challenge here for the Capitol. I think the Boston Bruins right now, the way they're playing again with an optimal lineup, we saw a little taste of it in the next to last game of the regular season series they had. They met on a Sunday, I think April 18th, give her take it. day or two. And the Boston Bruins truthfully gave the capitals the business that afternoon. A six three win, a TD Garden for Boston. It was just the start of this run I'm referring to since the trade deadline over the course of the last month. And I think to that end that the capitals will have their hands full. If the capitals are to win the series, I think one of the areas they'll be able to potentially take advantage of. The Boston Bruins, they're a physical, they're a high-skilled team. I wonder about their back end. We didn't talk.

about the Dano Chara being in Boston. If there's one thing the Boston Bruins maybe lack this year, is that size, is that physicality as far as their blue liners are concerned. And the capitals have some big boys up front. And if they can use that to their advantage, sometimes easier said than done. But if they could get in on the forecheck, if they could use the body,

if they could make the Bruins blue liners, relatively young defensemen, feel the wear and tear, that's potentially something as the series goes along, games 4, 5, 6, 7, you begin to reap the benefits. I think that would be among the rest of these for success if the capitals are to overcome some, you know, challenges, which we've acknowledged are in place entering the series. Ben, thanks. It's great catching up.

Continued success. Hope you're well. And let's hope that there's a long run over the next couple of months, and we can talk again soon. Hope so. I'll say real quick, Kevin. Oftentimes Stanley Cup champions find their toughest hurdle is the first. round series without looking too far ahead. I think I'm implying. That could be the case here. I think this is a tough challenge, but you kept past this. Look forward maybe to a deep run.

So appreciate it, Kevin. Thank you. Remember, they lost the first two at home to Columbus the year they won the cup. And it didn't look good there. Thanks, Ben, so much. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Kevin. The Preakness is tomorrow at Pimlico. Still not sure. And there's not a lot of clarity around when it will eventually, if ever, move to Laurel. But Pimlico tomorrow, here we are. Second weekend in May, and it's Preakness time. But a lot of controversy surrounding this Preakness

because of what happened to Bob Baffert's derby winner, Medina Spirit. Here to talk about that and also to preview the Preakness tomorrow is Eddie C. Edie C is at It's Me, Eddie C. on Twitter. He's a local, grew up in the area, went to good counsel, now spends a lot of his time picking winners, and Heddy C is joining us here on the podcast, because I really am, I'll be honest with you, it's not been like a priority for me in recent years. You know, I'll get to like five o'clock on a Saturday, on Derby Saturday or on the Preakness Saturday, and especially if there's a triple crown possibility when we get to the Belmont. And now,

that's when I start to tune in and I'll watch the race with, you know, family or friends or whatever and maybe lob a last minute wager in on it. But what's interesting this year is what happened at the Derby with Bob Baffert's horse, Medina Spirit, winning the Derby and then all hell broke loose. So for those that are just starting to pay attention to this and may not pay attention to it really until tomorrow, what happened with Baffert's Horse, Medina Spirit after the Derby? And why is it being allowed to run at tomorrow's Preakness in Baltimore? Hey, Kevin. First of all, appreciate you having me on.

So, yeah, the interesting part about the Kentucky Derby was, you know, this horse, Medina Spirit ended up going gate the wire. And prior to the race, a few weeks before that, he was diagnosed with basically a skin rash. So the veterinarian prescribed an ointment, a cream that contained beta-metisone, which is a legal drug, but what has to happen is prior to the horse racing, there has to be no trace in the bloodstream. So depending on, you know, with the cream, it's a lot less an active ingredient than some people get injected. it because it's also used for as an anti-inflammatory pain relieving joint, you know, relieving type of ointment or injection so the horses can run pain-free. Anyhow, so what happened

with this is after the race, you know, they always, they always test all the horses before the race and then after the race. They take blood samples, in some cases, urine samples as well. What happened with with this is the interesting part is he tested negative before the race, but tested positive after the race. And then on top of that, you know, the vet never really disclosed to Bob Bafford what ingredients this pointman had in it. Right. But then at the same time, this is the way I look at it, is if you're the trainer, you know,

and in a sense, I look at it as a parent with a little kid. you know, with little children, you're 100% responsible for their actions. So as a trainer in the horse racing industry, you're 100% responsible for what you're giving your horse or what your assistant trainer or your staff is giving your horse, be it feed, be it medication, whatever it may be. And for not to look at the ingredients on the label of that pointment and see that that's in there, because they treated that horse every day for two weeks leading up to the race. And that's why it became a positive.

Now, the reason that they're letting him run currently right now is whenever they do testing like this, they do what's called split samples. They always take two samples. You know, it's similar to what they do, you know, when they test people in baseball for steroids and football and stuff like that. So they always take two samples. They send one sample, and if that comes back positive, then the second sample gets tested. And they're hoping that it comes back negative.

But my guess it's going to come back positive. Okay. So I get what the issue is. I get your skepticism in terms of Baffert, not at least inquiring and knowing what was in the ingredients of the ointment that was used. what about the sport? Do they believe Baffert who denied knowing this and denied doing anything wrong or not? Okay, so, I mean, if you,

Bob Baffer has looked upon as one of the greatest trainers, if not the greatest trainer of all time. You know, he's won, I think it's six Kentucky Derbyes. You know, he's won two triple crowns in the last handful of years. You know, he's taken, I think, five, or six horses that have won the derby and the Preakness into the Belmont, and, you know, obviously only two of them won the Triple Crown, but, you know, he had four other chances to win it.

So he's a tremendous trainer, but he's also got a history of violations to him. So there's many people in the industry that are just tired of it. There's actually a group of horse racing Twitter that are boycotting this weekend's prequeness from a betting perspective. And I'm not talking about huge whale betters, but I'm talking about a lot of people, and when I say a lot of people, probably four or five hundred people, that are boycotting this prequist.

And they're also making an effort in creating a group of people to try to get the horse industry, to clean up its act and basically ban Baffert for life. I don't know if that's going to happen. But, you know, Baffert had his chances, and, you know, he's taking the stance. A lot of people referring to him as almost like the Lance Armstrong of horse racing out because he keeps denying, denying, denying, but he keeps getting caught.

So I don't, I like Baffert. I think he, I've always thought he was good for this sport, but, you know, you're kind of running out. a chance when you get down to it. You know what I mean? So with respect to this horse, it'll get tested before the pretenance, right? If there's any of, you know, that disallowed ingredient or component to the ointment used to treat the skin rash, if it's still in the, in the horse's system, the horse doesn't get to run tomorrow, correct? Yeah, you know, I think there's a possibility if that happens, to be honest.

Because they were probably treating the horse with this ointment up until this past Sunday because they didn't realize that there was a positive test until Monday morning. So if, in fact, they did test this horse. If, in fact, they were giving this horse the ointment, the pre-race test most likely is going to come back as a positive. And if it comes back as a positive, I don't see how they can allow the horse. horse to run. But again, I'm not sure that they were treating the horse with the ointment, but yeah, to answer your question, if the horse test positive, he won't run tomorrow. One last thing before we move to the race tomorrow. So he's been able to get Medina Spirit into

the preteness. What is the status of the win at the derby? It was erased, right? I mean, Is he suing? Who was the Derby winner? Okay. Medina Spirit, as of right now, is still the Derby winner. The horse that came second is called Mandolin. If they strip Bafford and Medina Spirit of the victory in the Kentucky Derby, then Mandolin will be promoted up and become the winner of this year's Kentucky Derby.

The negative to that, and this is another part of, you know, horse racing Twitter that's kind of an uproar about this, is that, you know, a lot of people had winning tickets on that the second place horse. Right. And they get, and they get nothing. They get nothing for it. You know, their ticket, they may as well just burn it because even though there's talk about doing a class action lawsuit and trying to get money for it, I mean, it is what it is. You know, I mean, they've already paid out all the winning tickets.

They're not going to pay out a second. Right. What is the liability? What's the liability on a race that's been called as final results, payouts for win, play, show, et cetera, made? And then the horse is defaulted after the fact, and you end up with a different order of finish. Is there any liability or does it say it somewhere on the ticket? that, you know, this is for the first, you know, final results announcement or something like that. You know, I believe on the back of the ticket, there is some sort of disclaimer that covers that.

I don't know factually because I don't have one in front of me. But, you know, Kevin, I think a way that you and your listeners can maybe understand it a little bit better, you know, how many times do, let's say, watching, you know, be it on Washington football, football team or any other football game in the NFL. And at the end of the game, there's a terrible call that changes the result of the game. And they send, you know, that team sends the reports to the officiating office of the NFL, and then they come back and say, yeah, the wrecks were wrong, but it doesn't change the outcome. You still lost, you know.

So it's the same thing in horse racing. And it's like, well, we've already paid out the winter, and even if we EQ this horse, we're not paying you out for the second place horse who we ended up promoting it, the winner. Wow. If that makes sense. Yeah. All right, let's talk about the Preakness tomorrow because Medina Spirit, as of now, is in the field. The horse is the favorite.

Typical, right, big, big field in the derby, and then a much slimmer field in the Preakness. You're really good at doing this. This is Eddie C. All right, Eddie's a local, and Eddie is out of South Florida now, and you can follow him on Twitter. It's me, Eddie C, to get his picks and to follow everything that he tweets about. But he's pretty good at this. So size up the field.

Who do you like? Okay, well, I mean, you know, the field, as you look at it right now, you could almost say that it's a 10-horse field, but you can look at it and almost saying it's a match race of the two Bob Baffert horses. You've got Medina Spirit who's coming off, though, win in the Kentucky Derby, and then you have his other horse,

which is called Concert Tour, which is the 10-horse, and just for people to know Medina Spirts is the three-horse. But Concert Tour would have probably been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby, but, you know, he came out of the Arkansas Derby, and Baffert said that, you know, he wasn't happy with the way he came out of it, so they skipped the Kentucky Derby with him,

pointing into the Preakness. And they're clearly, by looking at past performances and everything, they're the two best horses in the race. So, but, you know, at the same time, I'm also looking for value. So it looks like Medina's Beirit and Concertour are going to go to the race.

front and they're going to run, they're going to try to run one, two, all the way around the track. But if this other horse, which is called Midnight Bourbon, which is the five horse, he's got some speed as well. And if he pressures them, the three of them could go really quick. And if they go really quick, they could tire themselves, burn themselves out, which is going to give an opportunity for a nice price horse or two to come in and maybe steal the victory. And I'm looking at a couple of horses that have a really good chance. I like this horse called Crowded Trade, the Four Horse. You know, I mean, it's a well-meant horse that paid $185,000 for him.

And he's well-bred, and he's also trained by one of the best trainers in the country called Chad Brown. And he's being ridden by one of the best jockos in the country called J.J. Costalano. And this horse is a fresh horse. He's only raced three times. He's training really, really well. And he's had a month and a half off to prepare for this race. So he definitely is capable.

And he's also a closer. He's going to sit off the speed. that's what it means. He's going to sit off the speed, and then he's going to give one run, you know, turning for home, and maybe he gets there. And then another horse is called Rombauer, and Rombauer is the six horse.

And this is another horse that is going to sit a little further back and make one run at the end. In his last race, which is a race called the Bluegrass in Keenland, Kentucky, he ended up coming in... to the horse that ended up being the favorite in the Derby Central Quality, only by like five lengths. But he got a terrible trip. He got bumped at the beginning and was kind of boxed in for a while

until he could finally get out and make a run. So, you know, again, looking for value. Rom Bauer is 12 to 1. Crowded trade is 10 to 1. And again, I'm just looking for value on it because when you look at Medina Spirit, who's 9 to 5 and concert tours 5 to 2. If it's those two people, if it's those two horses, I should say, you know, if you're looking to make some money,

you're not going to make a ton of money on those two horses. Right. But they are the two horses to be. And they're the speed horses as well. So it sounds to me like, you know, those three horses, Midnight Bourbon, crowded trade and Ron Bauer, especially considering Eddie that you said earlier

that you wouldn't even be surprised. of Medina's spirit got scratched, that that's where you're sort of looking right now as sort of a sharp pick. You know, in big races like the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont, there's always what they call a wise guy horse. And the wise guy horse could be Ron Bauer, who's 12 to 1, and then all of a sudden, and you turn on the TV tomorrow afternoon, Ron Bauer could be at Fort a while

because the wise guy money is going on that horse. Yeah, yeah. It happens to us. And you've seen that. Yeah, I'm guessing that that's what you, by the way, that's the information that I want more than anything. I want where the wise guy, I want your prediction on where the wise guy money is going,

and you think it'll be Rombauer. And obviously, if Medina's spirit is scratched, you know, Ron Bauer potentially, well, concert tour is probably going to be the favorite at that point, but Rom Bauer might be the second pick at that point based on what you're telling me right now. Very well could be. I mean, I think Midnight Bourbon could be back down a little bit. And there's one other horse that's worth mentioning. It's the eight horse on bridled honor.

He kind of freaked his last race. It was running in the mud on a very wet, floppy track, and ran a great race. And from a performance and figure perspective, I mean, he came second, just missed by a couple of lengths, but he was closing fast at the end. And that performance was much better than any other race that he's ever had. So the decision from a handicapping perspective is,

do you look at this horse and go, well, he just really liked the wet, floppy track, and he's better on that type of surface than he is on a fast, hard dirt surface. You know, that's where you've got to kind of make a decision. It's like, well, I like him as an improving horse because he's a young three-year-old, and maybe he's just starting to figure it out. Or do you just throw him out because there was a wet track and he's not as good on the dry track? And just to throw something out there on a different note, Kevin, if I may, you know, the shame of this whole back for Preakness thing is, you know, probably like you, when we were in high school and in college, you know, we used to go to the Preakness,

going to the infield and with a bunch of buddies and have been. Yeah. What's that? Oh, boy. I was telling my youngest son who's been, I think, the last couple of years and I think last year or the year before it came back covered and mud hammered the whole thing. And I told them before, I said, you know, these will be great memories. I think I went like five, six, seven years in a row or something like that. But that infield at

Pimlico for the Preakness is a basic, at least back in the day, was in anything goes environment. I mean, there was no law on that infield and it got ugly at times. And I don't miss it at all, But go ahead. Oh, I mean, it was like Woodstock in Baltimore, just what it was. Now, fortunately, for me, I never did the Port-a-John hop, you know, so to speak. So, you know, I never cracked and burned doing that. Yeah, I passed on that too, but, you know, I do remember catching a graze of a punch thrown in the general direction of somebody that it was intended for, and all hell broke loose.

And there was nobody really there to sort of referee it. It was unbelievable. Anyway, so go ahead. Finish up your point. I'm sorry. Well, I guess the point that I was trying to make was, you know, Jim McKay has so much to do with the history of Maryland horse racing. And he did so much.

I mean, his stamp is on Pimlico. It's on the pre-stance. and it's on the Maryland million, which was actually his dream, which is a series of races. And it's just, Kimmelkowitz, they always seem like the

forgotten one. And the preakness feels like the forgotten race of the Triple Crown series. And it's a shame because the history of Maryland racing for people that don't know. Racing started, it started in Maryland. Sure.

It started in Kentucky. It started in Maryland. And it's a shame that we can't kind of pick that back up and put it in the limelight and shine a bright light and a positive light on horse racing by going back to the roots of Maryland. And Jim McKay. Agreed. Really appreciate the time, Eddie. Follow Eddie C.

On one of his two Twitter handles, it's me, Eddie C. He also has another Twitter handle at Notebook Picks. All right. You can follow him in both of those spots. He's a local. He does this. He does this well. Thanks for the information, especially on the Baffert stuff, and good luck tomorrow. Hey, Catton. Really appreciate the time. And hopefully, if all goes well, we can do it again for the time. That'd be awesome. Thanks, Eddie. Appreciate it.

All right, thanks, Kevin. All right, one more segment, and it deals with some very disappointing news related to Maryland basketball. That's next right after this. this word from one of our sponsors. What an off-season for Maryland basketball after losing in the second round, Alabama, in the NCAA tournament, after a real over-achieving season last year in what was a loaded Big Ten. Obviously, the big news of the off-season was Mark Turgeon getting a contract extension. And then you had major transfers.

Fats Russell from Rhode Island and Cuddis Wahab from Georgetown. and even Ian Martinez from Utah. I mean, Maryland's transfers in are leading towards a lot of discussion about Maryland being a preseason top 10 kind of a team next year. Now, Aaron Wiggins and Eric Iala and Darryl Morsell, I think all three of them potentially could be back. Certainly Aaron Wiggins is going to test his NBA draft potential. I think if he doesn't go in the first round, I think he's back. And unless he has a Kevin Hurtr kind of NBA draft camp, he will be back. And it's crucial that he comes back.

I think Eric Ayala will be back. I think there's a chance that Darrell Morsell will be back after sort of testing the transfer market and maybe even the draft. And then there was some disappointing news that came out yesterday. The Big Ten basketball schedule for the 2021-2020 season was unveiled in terms of the teams that everybody's going to play against. It'll be a 20-game season. It's an unbalanced schedule. You play some teams once, other teams twice. And, of course, one of the wishes for Maryland fans was a home game next year against Michigan.

Why? Well, the last game they played against Michigan was the, dust up between Mark Turgeon and Joanne Howard, all instigated by the freshman Hunter Dickinson, who was an outstanding player for Michigan all year long. And Michigan destroyed Maryland in their first two games and then had that quarterfinal game in the Big Ten tournament in which Maryland had a lead in the first half. And the game, you know, was there, you know, to be had at times. But Michigan pulled away. That was the game in which Smith went for like 18 points. And I think it was 15 or 16 assists in that game and was outstanding in that game. Anyway, with the back and forth between

Maryland and Michigan last year, again, all instigated by the freshman from Dematha Hunter Dickinson who claimed he wasn't recruited by Maryland, which he was by Maryland. There was some hope among Maryland fans that, hey, for the first time, there's actually a team that we don't like, and for whatever reason, they don't like us. I mean, they handled us last year, but they seemed to be obsessed with Maryland and Maryland's fan base. Certainly Dickinson did. You know, he mocked Turgeon in that first game on New Year's Eve in College Park. And there was a hope that Maryland would be able to host Michigan in this upcoming season. It would be a heavyweight matchup, and there would be sort of a bloodlust in the crowd for the first time, maybe since they were in the ACC. Well, they don't get

Michigan at home. That's the disappointing news. 20 conference games next year. They'll face several teams twice, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan State. I sort of view Michigan State as the games that I'd like to look forward to and I'd like to consider them at some point arrival. Northwestern, Ohio State, and Rutgers, those are the teams they'll play twice. They're going to play Minnesota, Penn State, in Wisconsin just once at home, and then Michigan, Nebraska, and Purdue, they'll play just once all three of those games on the road. Purdue expected to be a contender, Michigan, a contender as well. So that's disappointing that you don't get that game against Michigan at home. It wasn't done on purpose. I think there's a, you know, sort of a rotational thing when it comes to the

scheduling, but that would have been a big time game at Xfinity Center if you had, say, two top 10 teams and what went on last year. It would have been quite the scene in college park. By the way, the other day, Andy Katz did his Big Ten early sort of predictions, and he essentially picked Maryland to be the Big Ten champion. He had them as the early frontrunner to win the Big Ten. Had Michigan 2, Purdue 3, again, those are two teams they play only on the road, Maryland does.

Ohio State, four, Indiana. five, Michigan State six. That's how Katz had it. Cats made it very clear that, you know, Wiggins returning certainly is key to that. But if Wiggins, Iala, and Morsell come back, Maryland will be the preseason Big Ten favorite in a league that will once again on paper, it didn't perform in the tournament. But as far as a regular season league, it'll be a brutal test, 20-game tests next year. All right, that's it for the day.

enjoy the weekend.