The Kevin Sheehan Show - How Many Wins Will It Take?

Episode Date: December 1, 2022

Kevin and Thom today with some sophisticated soccer talk coupled with a breakdown of the National Christmas Tree Lighting to start. Then Kevin took a dive into the playoff picture and came to a conclusion on how many wins Washington will need to make the playoffs. The boys also talked about whether or not it's reasonable to consider Carson Wentz over Taylor Heinicke right now. The off-season Commanders' price tag on Daron Payne and more on the show as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. I'm here. Tommy is here on this Thursday. I am going to promise to all of you that we're going to get Chris Cooley tomorrow.

He told me yesterday. I promise I'll be ready for Friday. He was not on the show yesterday, but we had a great group of guests on the show yesterday, Tommy. Doc was on the show. And you know what was so funny. Doc goes what? Cooley didn't make it. And usually it's not true.

Usually I call Doc because I call Doc to have him on the show. I love having Doc on the show. But yesterday was at the last second, you know, I realized Cooley wasn't going to be on. So I called him. And he's like, oh, you know, I don't mind being on the JV. So he was doing his whole JV thing. We had Gary Williams on the show yesterday.

Also Nick Ackardt from Pro Football Focus. So it was a good show yesterday, I thought. But I was. I'll try to measure up to that standard. That's hard for you, but I want you to give it a big time effort today. Kyle tweeted us, both of us, at Kevin Sheen, D.C. and at Tom Levero. The soccer conversation with Tom Levero, Kevin, was the most painful 10 minutes of any podcast I've ever listened to.

I speak for all fans of soccer when I ask you to please never do that again. Thank you, Kyle. We probably will... I've gotten a lot of tweets like that. Yeah, me too. I've gotten a lot of tweets from people saying, please just don't even talk about soccer. Right.

But you watched the game. Did you watch the game Tuesday? Yeah, well, remember, we were together when the game started. Yeah, but then... Yeah. Right. But then you went somewhere to watch the game, right? Yeah, well, I actually came right back to my studio

because I had work to do, so I watched it here, and... Well, here's some painful conversation for you. I don't get it. I've tried for years. I understand and can absolutely identify the athleticism, the skill. The game itself, though, is for me painfully boring. Painfully boring. And the last nine minutes of stoppage time,

in that game, given that it was, you know, they had to win the game, they couldn't draw. There was some drama there, but that's about as dramatic as it gets. And I thought Iran was on the verge of scoring once or twice, but I'll tell you, I watched the whole game. Like, I sat here and watched it. It's really, I just don't, I know that there's nuance to everything, but I've given it a try. I've tried my best over the last few years, and I'm going to watch the game tomorrow morning, or Saturday morning. I'm going to watch the game.

But I'm going to tell you right now, if that game was on in the middle of the day up against these college football championship games, I wouldn't spend 30 seconds watching the game. Not 30 seconds. It just doesn't compare to our sports here, in my opinion. But anyway. Well, you know, I mean, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, lack of activity. There's no activity. The activity, it's hidden. It's hidden. It's hidden behind this curtain of, of, I don't know,

it's like, it's like that dog whistle. You know, the dog whistle that only dogs can hear, you know, we don't get it, but people who get it are the only ones that can see it, apparently, what's going on there. And I was watched it, and I was into those last nine minutes, to. Yeah. The nine minutes that, you know, they just happen to add on because they don't stop the clock during the, they're in the game when they're stoppages. No.

And stuff like that. But, you know, I mean, I agree with you. I agree with you. I just don't, it's funny because in America, I know that now, you know, MLS has become, you know, is growing in popularity. finally. But, you know, and in the beginning, the North American Soccer League, when they had Pele and Beckenbauer. I remember that. And all those guys. Johan Krofe, who played for Washington.

They filled up, you know, the Meadowlands with 75, 80,000 people for games, but that did last. That's it. And you know what's still around? The major indoor soccer league. That's still around. That's been around. That's been around. round of all the leagues, I think major indoor soccer league has been around for about 40 years. Well, the MLS has been around for a while now. 25 years, I think, maybe. 30 years, but. Yeah.

Yeah. But major indoor soccer is the league that's lasted the longest in this country. And that's because what Americans did, they took the game, they put it indoors, and created more scoring. Like a major indoor soccer league, It's like 9 to 8. Yes. Or 7 to 5 or something like that.

Right. You know? Right. So, I mean, that is more appealing to me than what we watched in the glorious World Cup. Yeah, I mean, I, like, their time, like the other night, I was trying to, I was listening very carefully to the analysis of the game, and I forget her name, whoever was the analyst on the game. she was actually pretty good.

You know, and, you know, these what they call set pieces, corner kicks, you know, it's like, I'm watching, you know, where's the strategy? Like, are there screens set? Are you trying to free somebody up? But to me, it just looks like somebody kicks it in the general direction of that big crowd of people, and they hope that somebody goes up with a header and knocks it in. But, you know, the truth is, is like, you know, 49 times out of 50, nothing really happens on that set piece or play.

You know, there's all of the drama associated with the rolling around on the ground, the fake injuries that is really repulsive to me to watch after a while. Like, it's funny, and then it's like seriously, because then for someone like me who's into, well, most American sports fans, you're like, well, how much time is this taking off the clock? Is the guy going to get the time? The referee, it's very arbitrary. while this guy's rolling around on the ground and they're bringing this little stretcher out

and then he jumps up and all of a sudden he's okay. But in the meantime, three minutes have gone off the clock because they don't stop it. Did the guy actually get it right? Is that going to be a plus three or is it just sort of arbitrary? It kind of felt like a minute and a half. So I'll throw that together. You don't know. But really beyond that, the normal complaints, you know, of no scoring,

of floppers and fakers of, you know, of the clock, the imprecise nature of the clock, et cetera. I do try to look to see what they're doing, like in their alignments and their spacing, because there is some similarity to basketball. Lacrosse is the sport that most mirrors basketball, and basketball is the sport I understand much more than any other. And I'm looking for, you know, how important is spacing? You know, when they kick it forward and then kick it back, Is something happening in front of them that they're trying to set up?

I can't figure it out. To me, they go down there, and it looks like they might have a chance to actually send the ball in the general direction of the net. You know, after three minutes of no action, and then they turn around and they kick it backwards all the way back to their own goalie. I don't know what they're trying to set up. Are they making them run more? Are they hoping to tire them out? That said What?

Making it to this next round It's big Okay It is But if they If they beat the Netherlands And then move on We're going to have to come up

Have to come up with something Because people are going to go nuts We're going to have to come up With something different Other than It's stupid Yeah well You know what I'm

You know that's actually very interesting I'm going to look I want to see what the World Cup schedule is because if there are games that are on football Sundays, no one's. I'm sorry. Oh, I did see this, that the ratings for the U.S. Iran game were really good. And the number one market in the U.S. was D.C., which I think, correct me if I'm wrong, is often the case with some of these big soccer events,

that Washington ends up being one of the highest rated television markets for a big soccer event, right? I'm pretty sure that's true. Yes, it's an international city. It makes sense. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. That's certainly understandable. But my point is, if they beat the Netherlands on Saturday and move on to what, the final eight then, it comes up to.

Yeah, it would be the elite eight. We're in the Sweet 16 headed to the elite eight. Right. Right. That's going to be a really big deal. I mean, you know, people, the rest of the world of America, who doesn't normally. normally pay attention to sports, we'll be talking about it as well. So I don't know what we're going to do, but we're going to have to come up with something

other than this is stupid when they're celebrating in the streets outside our windows. Oh, come on. First of all, the World Cup final is Sunday, December 18th, but it's at 10 a.m. Eastern, so it's not going to compete with football. Let me – December 18th is the second Giants game. Yes. One at home.

I want to be clear on one thing. It's not that I think it's stupid. I don't get the, I don't, look, internationally, because on some level, they haven't been exposed to our number one sport, American football, as much as we have, which, you know, as who was it that said,

was it Wooden who said don't mistake activity for achievement when you brought up activity before? I'm pretty sure that's one of Wooden's, pyramid things. There's activity, but there isn't a whole lot that seems to be achieved through the activity, whereas in the NFL, there may be less activity in terms of continuous motion, but a lot more is achieved. But I can tell you this, in all seriousness, I think if, like right now I were in Belgium,

which I've been to before, and I love Brussels, and they're playing right now because I just turned it on as we were talking about this in my studio. They're playing Croatia. I think Howard Gutman told me they have to win this game to advance. If I were in Belgium right now, first of all, it's not like I'd be watching. This would be a game I would absolutely go to a bar to watch with a bunch of Belgians because I would want to partake in that kind of intensity. Because that stuff interests me, even if I'm not intense, you know, seeing other people. You're feeding off the people around you. You're not feeding off the product you're watching.

Right. That would be a lot of fun. That would be fun. But that's a bigger indictment of the sport. It's that, you know, I'm really into it when I'm with a butt. It's like mass hypnosis. Well, that's what a lot of these watch parties are probably about. With the non-sports fans.

You know, I remember, I remember. being... The hipster dufus. Yeah. I remember being in Europe. I was actually in Paris. It was a family trip. We were there during the Euros. I don't know what year it was. And Spain

won. It wasn't even France. And the honking of the horns and the partying in the streets with the Spanish people in Paris was incredible. So I walked down. The kids were young. I remember everybody was asleep. And I walked into one of these places and

had a blast. It was so much fun. But I have, you know, I couldn't have told you anything about the game because it probably ended, you know, zero zero with some sort of penalty kick situation. Yeah. I'm rooting for, I'm rooting for Howard's Red Devils. I think that's what they call the Belgium team. In Belgium, I think is one of the favorites to win this whole thing. Maybe not. I think the Brazilians, the, I think it's Brazil, Spanish, Spain, Argentina, Portugal. The U.S. isn't supposed to win the game Saturday. But, you know, they're not that big of an underdog.

I did look at the odds yesterday on my bookie. Right. I think they can win it. Based on me watching them for two games, I've come to the conclusion that they can win it. Is that your pick? Yes, that's my pick. And what would be the pre-game analysis? Well, the pre-game analysis is that...

I don't want to hear it. It doesn't... It's not going to make any sense. Do you really want to go through this? But no, but I think we've done our job with all those people who have complained about our World Cup and Al. The Netherlands... I think we've completed our mission here. The Netherlands are a minus 102 money line favorite.

Now, the U.S., typically if you're minus 102, the buyback for the underdog would be like plus, you know, whatever, the one something. The draw is plus two-thirds. So how do you bet on a draw in a game that can't end in a tie? Because this is a knockout stage. This is my guess. I don't know this for a fact. If my brother is listening, please let me know. My brother is a soccer fan.

He enjoys it a lot. He's been to the Premier League final a couple of times and has invited me. And he said, you would just love the event, period. Anyway, I would guess that if the game in regulation ends 0-0-1-1-2, in a draw, and you bet draw, you win. Although maybe it has to go through, I think it's two overtime periods before you get to penalty kicks. Maybe it has to be a draw at the end of the overtimes.

I don't know. I should know that, damn it. I bet soccer before, but not in a while. Oh, you know what? MyBooky right now. MyBooky.orgie. use my promo code Kevin D.C. They'll double your first deposit all the way up to $1,000.

If you use my promo code, Kevin D.C. I'm watching their in-game betting on the two soccer games going on right now. Morocco and Canada. Morocco is leading 2 to 1 in Belgium and Croatia. They're in the 76th minute. It's zero-zero. The next World Cup is in the U.S. It's in the United States.

I'd say we could go see it, but apparently, It's not in the number one soccer market in the country. We've been through this. Washington. Yeah. Because Ghost Town Field was a pathetic stadium that the FIFA official said, no, no, no. Right. We're not putting the glorious world game here, you know?

No. But we should take a trip. We'll go see the World Cup when it's in the United States. You know what? Right now, I will make you a promise in 2026, because games are in, Philadelphia, I believe. I think that's the closest. Is that the closest market?

I don't know. I have to look it up. I'm pretty sure they're in Philadelphia, because when we talked about this before, I think, I think Philadelphia. I will go to a game in Philadelphia. I will. I would like to go to one of these games, and not for the game itself, but for everything else.

I think it's kind of, I mean. Philadelphia is one of a city. Yeah, what are we doing here? Jesus, God. I almost want to go back and edit the whole beginning of this show. This is just absolutely nonsensical. And for the people that are soccer people, you know, we're infuriating that. I think, I think, no, we satisfied their desire for us to talk about soccer.

You know, there are a lot of posers with soccer. You know, it really is. Of course there are. It's so. When Lance Armstrong was a big deal. Oh, yeah. And people were watching the tour to France. And they got bikes.

And they had no idea what they were watching. They never watched a bike race in their life before. Yeah. And they bought bikes and they bought the little uniforms that go with them with the sponsors. Oh, my God. Total posers. The only thing they were missing were the steroids. Yeah.

All right. So I do have multiple Washington, New York Giant Washington Commanders discussion. for you today. But I did want to ask you, because I did remember this, and I saw this on the news last night, that last night was the lighting of the National Christmas Tree on the ellipse, and you said a few weeks ago that you had tickets and you were going to go to the event. So did you? Yes, we did. How was it? We had a real nice time. We even took the metro in. First time on the metro a long time. A great metro experience, by the way. Coming and going, really, really a plus experience on the metro.

But it was good. It was a strange weather day because like right around 4 o'clock it started raining. We had umbrellas with us. Yeah, it was windy too. We had umbrellas with us. Yeah, well, that's when it started to get windy, real windy. Yeah. And the rain lasted about 45 minutes, and then it went away.

And then there's beautiful sky, beautiful, unbelievable sunset. Oh, I saw it last night. Gorgeous. Oh, my God. Yeah. gorgeous. And then when the sun went down and the wind kicked up, it was freezing. Yeah. It was, the temperature was 46 degrees. It seemed like 26 degrees. Yeah, well, because it was windy. Yeah.

Well, it was really cold, and I was dressed in a warm coat, but it was still really cold. And we're sitting there for like three hours because we wanted to make sure we got good seats. That was foolish because it turns out there were a lot of seats everywhere, but we've never been been to this thing before. And we figured since it's a lottery, it might be hard to get good seats. So we got relatively good seat. And then, you know, they had a choir come out a half hour before and sing some Christmas carols. And then Shania Twain came out and performed. Oh, really? You know? Yeah. Yes. And how does Shania Twain look these days? Well, she looked okay. Okay. She looked okay. She looked well kept, you know? So, and then. And then, and then, and

I don't know. I barely know who she is. What do you mean? Okay, I just know she's a performer. I've never heard of Shania Oh, you've heard of Shania Twain. The Monday night thing or the Sunday night? Sunday night football. Was Shania Twain the first one? It was her and then it's been Carrie Underwood for years now.

Okay. It was pink for a while. You might be right about that. You might be right. Yes. It might have been her. That's the only. That's the only possible time I could have seen her or heard her before, unless I was on an elevator somewhere or something like that.

But, you know, she was okay, and it was kind of cool. And, you know, and then the president came out with his wife, President Biden, with his wife, and it's dark and it's cold, and he, and we thought we were going to have to sit because they had about an hour's worth of musical performers. And I'm ready to leave. Okay, but I'm still living with the... Faith Hill. Faith Hill was the first singer.

Okay, that's right. You're right. It was pink to start. Then it was Faith Hill. Oh, wait a minute. Do I have this right? Yeah, it was Faith Hill. Yeah, and it's been carry under what ever since.

Since 2013. Okay, go ahead. So we're, I'm kind of ready to leave, but I don't want to say anything because that goes against the Laverro, you know, philosophy of never leave until the end. Stick it out. I got the opposite sporting event. So,

so, uh, we're thinking we have to sit through another hour of musical act before they light the tree. Well, the president comes out and instead of sitting down to watch all the acts, he lights the Christmas tree. Nice. There you go.

It was the ninth inning. It was the ninth inning at the beginning of the game. That's perfect. That's perfect. And we weren't the only one. People filed out of that place. Well, After he lit the tree, because it was so cold.

Isn't it televised? It's taped. It'll be on Sunday night, I think. Okay. Did you have, were your seats good seats? Well, they were relatively good seats. They weren't VIP seats, you know? Did you go to Old Ebbit grill afterwards?

Did you walk over to Old Abbott? No, we just stopped at the first place we saw because we were tired and hungry and cold. It was blackfin. Oh, okay. Yeah. I had a real nice meal at Blackfin. Good. And I just want to shout out.

I met a couple people who were big fans of the show, who listened to the podcast. Do you think they're soccer fans? I don't think they're soccer fans. Simon, thanks for stopping me and saying hello to me. And Jeremy was a volunteer at the event. You know, they have a bunch of volunteers, park service volunteers who signed up for this thing. and I took my picture with Jeremy, and it was nice meeting him as well. So shout out to Jeremy as well.

Oh, good. Well, thanks for that update on. We do that as a family. We haven't done it in a while, but we used to do it when the kids were younger. That was a night during the holiday time. It was usually maybe like a week before, you know, the Saturday night before Christmas, we would go down there and then, you know, Old Abbott Grill really is, you know, a landmark, but it's also a major tourist trap to a certain degree, and it's always so packed holiday time.

But we would always, we would always do that. And, you know, you run around and you see the trees, and then you see the trees, right, that they have set up for each state. Each state has its own tree. And you kind of walk through that little maze of, you know, all of the state trees and, you know, 20 minutes, you're done, dinner, let's eat. All right, what else about last night? Anything?

That's it. Okay. That's it. Pretty uneventful other than that. We had a good time. All right, I want to talk about... Even though we were cold. I want to talk about Taylor Heineke and Carson Wentz.

We will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So I got this from Jeffrey. Jeffrey just said, She and do you still think it'll take 10 to get Washington into the postseason? And I read that last night, and then I went into playoff scenario mode, Tommy, and started to look to see what it would take because I do think with the Giants having lost a couple of games

and the game that they lost to the Lions two weeks ago was a really tough loss for them and could be the loss that makes the difference for them at the end. And Seattle losing at home to the Raiders in overtime was a big, big loss for them. And both of those, you know, the giant loss to the Lions and the Seattle loss to the Raiders are two games here over the last two weeks that have really elevated Washington's chances of not only making the postseason, but I think making the postseason with just nine wins. Now, I know a couple of weeks ago, as Jeffrey pointed out, that I said, I think it's going to take 10. And that was when the Giants were sitting there.

So did I. You know, it's six and two in Seattle look good, and I thought the 49ers were really going to come on because I thought they were a good team. Looking at it right now, there are a couple of things. Number one is this. You know, Philadelphia and Dallas are going to battle it out for the division in the NFC East. And I do not think that Dallas is out of it. I think Dallas still has a decent chance. Dallas plays Philadelphia in Dallas on Christmas Eve. If they win that game and, you know, Philadelphia loses another game. Philadelphia plays Tennessee this weekend at home.

Tennessee can run the ball. Philadelphia right now can't stop the run, which is really interesting. But the Cowboys could potentially win the division if they split with the Eagles end up with the same record. And the difference might be the division loss by Philadelphia to Washington on Monday night football that could cost them the division. Philadelphia is 10 and 1 right now. I think Dallas's chances to win the division aren't.

aren't 50-50, but I think they're at least 30, you know, 33%. I think it's a one-and-three shot. They could come back and win the division. The point here is whoever wins the division is going to be in as the division winner and probably the one-seat overall. I guess Minnesota still has a chance for that one seed. And then the runner-up is going to be the first wild card. So what you're talking about in the NFC is four division winners in either Dallas or Philadelphia,

the team that finishes second. So now you need two spots to fill. Right now they're being filled by the Giants and Washington, who are the six and seven seeds respectively. But here's the thing. The Giants, they're going to be underdogs more likely than not in five of their last six games. Five of their last six.

And the thing about the Giants right now is, you know, with six games left, to get to 10, they need to win three of them. Who are they going to beat? Listen to what they have. They have Washington, Philadelphia, Washington at Minnesota, the Colts at Philly. And I'm starting to think that Philly and Dallas will have something to play for. Unless Philly beats Dallas on Christmas Eve and ends any sort of division race, then it potentially

could be meaningless at the end of the year. But I don't know that the Giants can win three games. And even if they do win three to get to 10, you know, then there's Seattle. And Seattle is sitting there with a six and five record. Now, they'll be favored in four of their final six, but will they win all four of them? I think they'll win three of them. They play the Rams twice. They play Carolina.

But their other games are against the 49ers, Chiefs, and Jets. And by the way, when I say Jets these days, just understand they're 7 and 4, and they may be one of the top three defenses in the NFL. So whether it's the giants that don't win three more and they end up with two more to get to nine, or maybe not even two more, or Seattle doesn't win four more of their final six. They only get to three. If Washington ends up winning two of their final five and they end up with nine wins, I think one of those two teams will end up with nine wins.

I don't think both of those teams are going to win 10. And so therefore, then you get into tiebreakers. And if it's with the Giants, as long as Washington splits with the Giants, more likely than not, they'll win on division record with the Giants and a tiebreaker. With Seattle, it'll come down to common opponents, and it's pretty close right now, and it depends on who Seattle beats and who they lose to. But I think that the chances that both the Giants in Seattle win 10 games, which would force Washington to win 10 to have a chance, I just don't think are very high.

And in fact, I would bet that both teams end up 9 and 8 or less. And at that point, if Washington had 9, they'd win the tiebreaker against one of the two of those teams, if not both of them, especially if they split with the Giants. Splitting with the Giants is crucial. If they don't split with the Giants, if they were to get swept by the Giants, well the Giants now have a much better chance of winning 10 games. Right. Yes, they do.

If Washington sweeps the Giants, it's over. You know, for all intents and purposes, even if they lost their final three games, if they were sitting there at 9 and 5 in two weeks and the Giants were 7 and 7, let's say the lose to the Eagles as well, then the Giants, you know, would have to win out the rest of the way to get that. spot, and I don't think they're going to do that. They finish with Vikings, Colts, Eagles. Now, don't you think that in these next two games, all three scenarios are definitely possible that the commanders could sweep the Giants, they could split with the Giants, or they could easily be swept by the Giants? I don't think they're going to be swept by the Giants.

I think you don't think you would put that as the longest shot. Yeah, in the win, lose, or draw soccer odds, I would say that Washington sweeping, that the split would be the favorite. And then Washington sweeping would be the second favorite and the giant sweeping would be the long shot. Washington's better than the Giants right now, Tommy. Now, they're playing at the Meadowlands Sunday and the Giants are getting healthier for that game. they're going to have probably two to three offensive linemen that they didn't have against the Cowboys back, including their starting center and Evan Neal. They may have their corners back, which by the way, one of them is Fabian Moreau.

We remember Fabian Moreau from Washington. They were without both of their starting corners for the game against the Cowboys. By the way, a game that they led at halftime. They were up 13-7 on, you know, a week ago on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys and had a fourth and one in Dallas territory down 14-13 in the third quarter. They missed it, and then the game, you know, got away from them. But I think Washington's better. You know, I think Washington's capable of losing, you know, to anybody they have left.

Because if they make the big mistakes, by the way, Belgium lost, they're out. Yeah, a little update there as we're doing the podcast. Sorry, Howard. I know how important this was. to you and I was kind of rooting for Belgium. God, that's, you know, I think they were one of the real good teams. I think they have one of the best players in the world. As, as they say in soccer, Tommy, they have a first class player. Everything is first class when they're describing players. I honestly can't tell the difference between the great players and the good players.

But I think netting it out, I think there's a decent chance that if Washington just wins two of their remaining five, as long as, you know, three losses, two of the three losses aren't to the Giants and they don't get swept by the Giants, I think there's a really good chance. Nine and eight does it. But I think they can win ten. I think they can win three of these last five. I think they can split with the Giants and win, you know, and beat the Browns at home. And then maybe, I don't know if they can beat the Cowboys or the 49ers, but they can.

they can beat them. Will they? I don't know. Getting to 9 and 8, I think right now I would bet on Washington to make the playoffs as either the 6th or the 7 seed. So there you go. I'm pretty concerned if I was a Washington fan about Sunday. Why? Very concerned. Based on the way the Falcons ran on Washington. I mean, Sequin Barclays, the fourth-leading Russian. sure in the NFL right now. He's almost got a thousand yards. He scored seven touchdowns this

year. And I mean, I could, if that was Barkley running last week for Atlanta, he would have had 150 yards on his own. He's looked tired in recent weeks, but they also have had a banged up offensive line the last few weeks. Man, I'll tell you, just the discussion of Washington's run defense a week ago, I would have said, they're going to shut Barkley down too. They shut everybody down. But yeah, Sunday was a little bit of

a wake-up call on what a really solid dual-threat quarterback that runs a lot of read option can do. I mean, the defense was really struggling with that. Marriota was phenomenal in running it. And Daniel

Jones has had some of his best games against Washington, you know, in the past. Yep. But I think also, on the flip side, like I felt against Houston and Atlanta, and it didn't really come to fruition. It didn't have to against Houston. So I'm going to take the offense a little bit off the hook for only scoring 23 points, well, 16 points because Fuller had the pick six, for not scoring a lot against a team that Miami put 30 up on last weekend in the first half. I'll take them off the hook because they didn't have to do anything in that game. That game was over from the jump. But I really

thought they had a chance to be more productive offensively against Atlanta, you know, and I feel that way against the Giants. The Giants have really given up a lot here recently. Listen to their last couple of games against running teams, right? Dallas on Thanksgiving rushed for 169 yards. Okay, Zek had 92, Pollard had 60 yards. The week before that, the Giants gave up a boatload of yards against the lions on the ground. The lions ended up with 160 yards rushing in that one as well. Justin Jackson, their running back who was in for, was taking a lot of the DeAndre Swift carries, averaged seven and a half yards a carry. The week before that, the guy that Washington completely shut down in Houston, Damien Pierce, he went for 94 yards

on 17 carries. So the giants have given up, you know, some, I mean, the lion's, in the game against New York. It scored 31 points. They were 7 to 13 on 3rd down. They ran the football. The Giants gave up against the Cowboys. Let me see what they gave up against Cowboys on 3rd Down because I think the Cowboys did pretty good on 3rd down in that game.

My computer's tied up here. I'll get that. But the Giants have been soft defensively, you know, in recent games. Yes, they have. That kind of leads me to this. I'm just going to ask you this question, and I'll let you answer it first. I kind of talked about it a little bit on the podcast yesterday. I took calls on it this morning on radio.

I got this tweet from Jason who basically said, are you serious suggesting that Carson Wentz starting isn't an unreasonable conversation? I'm paraphrasing now because I'm looking for his tweet, I can't find it now. This is a no-brainer. Taylor Heineke's 5-1 as a starter. So I'll ask you the question. Is it a conversation,

is the conversation about Wentz over Heineke right now a completely crazy, unreasonable conversation to have? Yes. Why? Absolutely. Well, for one thing, these are people who thought Carson Wentz was Carson Wentz from Philadelphia. They didn't realize how damage Carson Wentz was as a quarterback.

And these are people who had already planted their flag, a lot of them, in the Carson Wentz camp. You know, there's a lot of resentment towards Taylor Heineke because he's not some kind of physically gifted athlete. I don't think it's resentment. Oh, I think it's resentment. Why? Yes, it is.

To touch a third rail here, I think there is some resentment. There's some resentment about the accolades he's getting, because the accolades he's getting, do not measure up to what people see is the talent that he displays. And I think there's some resentment about that. There's a lot going on with the anti-terror Heineke movement. But yes, it's ridiculous. For starters...

The Giants would love The Giants would love for Ron Rivera to announce tomorrow that Carson Wentz is the starting quarterback Sunday. Just love it. I don't think it's... Am I wrong about that? Am I wrong about that statement? Honestly, I don't think that you're wrong or right. I don't know that there would be a major reaction one way or the other.

Let me just preface what I'm going to say with. I think they should ride with Heineke right now for two reasons, primarily. One, the team wants him. Two, the alternative just doesn't really impress me much. Now, if they had a much better alternative, you know, and I gave this example earlier this morning, you know, we know that Carson Wentz was not Plan A in the offseason. We don't even know if he was Plan B or Plan C. You know, perhaps Plan B after Russell Wilson was Jimmy Garapolo.

you know, Adam Schaefter had that story about a deal was imminent until, now I found out that there was never a deal that was imminent because Washington essentially found out about the surgery, so they never got to the point where the deal was almost done, which is kind of what Adam implied. But Washington was interested in Jimmy Garoppolo. So if Garoppolo had played quarterback for this team, I think actually his results in the early portion of the year would have been better than Carson Wences, I don't know by how much. But, you know, Jimmy Garapolo has quarterbacked some pretty big games over the last three or four years. Like late season, big games, which by the way, if you go and look at Jimmy Garapolo,

end of season last year and then into the postseason, you know, he came up with every big throw and big drive to get him into the postseason at the end of that year. And then came up with the big drive against the Packers in a very low-scoring game, understood, and then, you know, whatever against the Rams. Like if there was another solution, and Garoppolo is the one I came up with this morning, I think I'd be more interested in saying, now let's go with the guy that's got a quick release, has the arm, can make all the throws, and has been there before. But it's Carson Wentz.

And I just don't know, and I can't convince myself that it would be a lot better. So those are the two reasons. With that said, I don't think that the conversation's unreasonable. at all. And I'll tell you why. Because I think you could make the case for Carson Wentz. Again, I'm not a fan of Carson Wentz. That, you know, he was in his, in a new offense for the first time in his career. Because remember, in Philadelphia, he had Frank Reich. Then in Indianapolis, he had Frank Reich. So it was the same system that he was in. Now he's in a new system. And it takes some time for quarterbacks in a new system, especially when they're not, you know,

going from system to system every year. This was the first time learning this new language. Secondly, they were not as good of a football team early in the season as they are now. They were not good defensively in their first two games for sure. So there are a much better defensive football team now than when they, you know, early in the season. They also have an offensive line that is better, not by a factor of a lot, but I shared this with everybody yesterday on the podcast. their pass block win rate, which was dead last in the league or 31st. It was either 31st or 32nd through those first five, six weeks of the season, including the Bears game after the Bears game, has moved up to 27th.

Now, that's not a big jump, but it is reflective of a pass blocking unit that's gotten better. Now, why has it gotten better? Well, because the emphasis has been on running the football. And so, and part of the... running the football has been the emergence of Brian Robinson, Jr. So Wence didn't have the benefit of, A, the defense playing the way it's playing now, B, the offensive line being a little bit better, C, the primary formula for playing offensive football being a run first offense, which the offensive line isn't terrible at, and by the way, frees them up to not be pass blocking on every

play. And Brian Robinson, Jr. has been a factor, a big factor. He certainly was a big factor on Sunday. Now, if your argument is, here's all I can tell you. Maybe there isn't a big difference between these two guys, but because they've got to be in this formula that's very fine lineish, meaning you can't take big losses on sacks, and that's your argument is that Wence is going to take more sacks than Heineke, and you can't afford them when you've got an offense that isn't very good and you can't really overcome big down and distance situations or deficits by throwing the football because they're a bad passing offense right now. Taylor Heineke, Tommy, if you don't know this, is at the bottom of almost

every pro football focus category right now. In a lot of the traditional stats, he's really near or close to the bottom. Wentz was too. I'm not suggesting that he wasn't. But they're a bad pass offense right now, which is why to me the argument isn't unreasonable, and what makes it also not unreasonable is you could make the case that it would be a better situation for Carson Wentz right now. But here's the last part. I wouldn't want to tempt Scott Turner. I wouldn't want to tempt Scott Turner from veering off this run-first formula. Run the ball, create good down and distance, play good defense, don't make that many killer mistakes, and you're going to have a chance to win 19 to 13. And I think with Carson Wentz, he might be tempted to, you know, drop them back

a little bit more than what they're doing right now, and that might be a problem. So there you go. I'm for sticking with Heineke, but I don't think the discussion is an unreasonable one. Well, again, I think it's clouded in all kinds of biases to have nothing to do with what people have seen. Well, what do you think my biases? What do you think my biases? No, I don't think yours. I don't know what your bias is. I didn't say every single one.

I said much of the discussion. I don't see it that way. It's clouded by biases. Okay, I know you don't. You made that point. Well, I didn't make the point with a reason. I didn't make the point with a reason. So I'm going to make the point with a reason.

I think you're on to something with respect to Heineke, but I don't think it has anything to do with Heineke. I think it has to do with the part of the fan base that was telling everybody during the summer, either get on board with Carson Wentz or get out, and now they're doing the same thing with Taylor Heineke. I said that was part of it. Oh, you did? Okay. I missed that.

That's part of it. Yes, I did. Okay. People who have planted their flag, I said, on the Carson Wentz. side of this. Right. You know, and they don't want to be, you know, told that they're wrong. No, I'm saying, but I'm saying planted their flag on the Taylor Heineke's side, and that's making people just like I did with Carson Wentz.

I was like, Jesus Christ, don't tell me what to think about this trade. I'm not in favor of it, and I'm, and here are the reasons why, but I'm willing to give it a chance. Remember during the off-season? Some of these people with Carson Wentz, they were insufferable. They were like, oh, oh, you. Indianapolis in Philadelphia, they didn't know what they're doing. This is the place where he's going to come.

And she and you either get on board or go to Minneapolis. I heard over and over again. I think now the pro-Taylor Heineke people, the people that have planted their flag with, they've got their guy. And this is the guy they've got a ride, not just now in the future, that that's pissing off the other side that's saying, can't you see him for what he is? He's a backup quarterback.

A good one, but he's a backup quarterback. Well, you know what? I guess blinds him? What blinds him? What's his record now this year? Five and one? I guess that blinds them a little bit. They can't see beyond that.

If you believe that quarterback record, they know not what they do. Well, if you believe that that's the stat that matters the most when it comes to quarterback. I didn't say that. Okay. I just said it's a stat you can't ignore. True. True. And by the way, intangibles.

There's a lot that goes into a win. Yeah. There's a lot that goes into a win. You can't fit a quarterback based on wins and losses, but you can't ignore five and one record. No, you can't. Either for whatever circumstances there are beyond that. You mentioned Scott Turner. Don't you think this is kind of driving him nuts?

I don't know. Scott Turner is not going to get a job handed a ball off to Brian Robinson. That's true. That's very true. He's not getting hired as a head coach with this offense right now. That's really, really such an interesting take because I told you during the off season that if this offense, even if this offense comes to life with Carson Wentz and it ends up being the strength of this football team, which some people thought it might be and that the defense was going to be the problem,

which is why you should never, you know, try to predict the NFL season in August. But that Scott Turner, because of his name, was going to be a name mentioned late in the season. you know, somehow he resurrects Carson Wentz. Yeah, you're right. It doesn't take much to be the next hot guy. It really doesn't. It doesn't. No.

Well, this ain't going to do it. No, it's not going to do it. And I don't, but I think that it's better. I think maybe he knows, too, that there's risk in going with the other guy as well. You know, the other guy, you know, even if I'm right by suggesting that it's possible, that it's a much better team than it was when he was quarterbacking early in the season on defense, offensive line, Brian Robinson Jr. You know, they're running the ball, which is by the way, essentially what Indianapolis turned to last year,

you know, after having a chucking it around the park, they said, nope, we're going to be a run first team with Jonathan Taylor. They started to win games. Yeah, I mean, you know, at this point, if they, That's what they're both going to do. And I'm for it. I'm for this. Run it. Stop the run.

Don't turn it over. Try to win 16 to 13, 20 to 17. Because I think this year in this NFC, you're not going to get blown out by anybody playing that way. Well, I mean, it's possible in a, you know, San Francisco, Dallas, you know. There are a couple teams that could do it to them. But I think that really right now you're just trying to avoid. beating yourself.

I compared this a little bit to the Alex Smith team of 2018. It's a bad comparison, as somebody pointed out to me, because the defense wasn't good. And we knew it, even though the results were good. They were getting lit up by good offenses like Atlanta and New Orleans when they were, you know, six and three. But they just couldn't really throw the football very well. And yet they were winning games.

And I remember at the time saying, I like the way they're playing, and I think it's the way they should play. I just don't think it's got legs in terms of legitimate, you know, playoff hopes. Like even if they were to get there, can they do anything? This year's different. Their defense is better, and the NFC doesn't have Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady, all playing at a high level. Yeah.

Well, I'm a little bit worried about Sunday if I'm a commander's fan. I think if there's a game they lose, this is the one they lose. lose. Well, if it's the only one they lose, that's fine. You know? How short of a leash do you think Heineke has? Well, I read to you Ron's comments from earlier this season. When he names the starting quarterback, he doesn't want that guy looking over his shoulder. So I think he's going to have a longer leash than people want. I think he's going to have a long leash. Now, I don't know what a leash is. I don't think they're going to pull them in the middle of the game. I don't think they're going to pull them after one bad start. Two bad starts? You know, I mean, a couple with losses, two losses,

then I think anything's possible. Yeah, I had people calling this morning saying that if he has, you know, a bad game Sunday and they lose because he throws two picks and the offense can only score 10, 13 points that he would get benched with the by week coming up and Carson would start the home game against the Giants. I think it would have to be really bad because I think the big thing that Ron understands is he understands the locker room. And those players want Taylor to be their quarterback. And, you know, there may be a lot to that. You know, it may not just be that they think Taylor is a much better option. I think they just like Taylor a lot more. I think everybody does out there. I think the fans do for the most part.

Yeah, I'm not sure how long the leash is. I would not bail on Heineke after one loss unless it's really bad, you know, and he's rattled because of it, which I don't see him getting rattled much. I don't see that happening. So I think that I would just continue to ride with this, you know, until you believe you really have something,

and whence now that's just going to provide a boost. If they were to lose two in a row, let's just say to the Giants. I think they got a chance to win Sunday. I just think they're better than the Giants. All right. Ben Standing wrote something in the athletic about Duran Payne that I wanted to go through with all of you and Tommy. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Well, Kevin, it's December 1st.

So we are officially on the Christmas watch now for this year, and people are looking over their list of things that they want. And I always remembered that during Christmas, leading up to Christmas, my books, when I would do book signings, would always do very well because women would be lining up to buy books to get autographed for their husbands, for their boyfriends, for their fathers, for their sons, because they knew it was an easy present, but particularly if it was a Redskins book. You know, I'd have people line up with four Redskins books at a time to take care of all the men, the Redskins fans in their lives at the time. So when you're trying to think of something to get your guy or your girl for Christmas this year, I'm going to give you something out of the box. Okay. A gift card to Shelly's back room. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.

Shelly's backroom, you know, a huge friend at a show, my home away from home at 1331 F Street Northwest, allows you to buy gift cards to give us presidents, you know, anywhere between $5 and $250 denominations. You can use that for dinner, you can use that for drinks, you can use that for anything, you know, buying cigars at Shelly's, and they actually have Shelly's merchandise. They sell Shelly's hats, the coolest hats.

I mean, the Shelley's hats rival the D.C. gray's hats in coolness. I have a Shelly's backroom hat at home, and I love to wear it when I'm out in different, like in other states. Like when I go to Florida, I love wearing my shelly. They're good-looking hats. I'm checking them out right now. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a very cool hat. So I'd recommend if you can't think of anything to get your significant other. I guarantee you get them a Shelley's Backroom gift card, and they'll say, wow, this is something I didn't think of before, but this could be great. Let's go. And then

both of you can enjoy it. Great menu. Like I said, if you're not a smoker, they have a system in place to there to keep the air moving and to keep it fresh and clean. Gift cards. Think about it. Shelly's Backroom.

Go to shelley's backroom.com. to buy your gift cards. Yeah, you just go right to the website, and there's a pulldown for gift cards at the top of their home page. I wanted to, Ben wrote a story and had a bunch of quotes from various people. That's really an interesting story, and this is going to be something that's going to become an immediate off-season topic when this season ends. I read the story. It was a good story.

Yeah, and the subject is Dron Payne. You know, for those that don't know, but I think most of you do, he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season. He's playing on his fifth year option. Washington did not extend Duran Payne. And the only way they're guaranteed of having him back next year is to franchise tag him. And we all, you know, here in Washington in particular, we understand what the franchise tag process is.

It's not a fun process. It ultimately really costs this team a lot of money and ultimately two good players. in Kirk Cousins and Brandon Sheriff. The franchise tag, if you're wondering, is just over 18 million. It's like 18.2 million for the defensive tackle position for 2023. So they do that, they do have that in their back pocket. But Ben had a lot of really good quotes from various people in his story about Duran Payne and the market for defensive tackles.

And I wanted to read some of it. this is the first quote that really was jarring to me an aFC pro personnel director we don't want to put reality out there but they as in this position they're going to get paid it's going to be a robust market from an agent who talked about you know Aaron Donald's contract being the being the outlier and you know right now, like John Allen signed a four-year, you know, $72 million deal. So he's playing at $18 million a year. One of the agents said it's not even going to be close to that $18 million a year. This is going to be significantly north of $21 million annually.

People have fucked with the tackles compared to the D-Ns for too long. So what this is really reflecting right now is it's been coming for a while. while. PFF's been all over the importance of the cornerback position versus the outside pass rusher position. They make the case that a great corner is now more valuable than a great pass rusher, or edge rusher, edge rusher, because of the quick passing attacks. West Coast, getting the ball out quickly, lots of line of scrimmage throws, the real emphasis for quarterback's not to hold on to the ball. And so corners have to be able to cover quicker because the edge rushers aren't getting home as much. But that's put major emphasis on interior pressure

defensively because the quickest route to the quarterback is a straight line and it's the two defensive tackles that are right in front of the quarterback and have a straight line. And so we've seen in recent years, obviously Aaron Donald is the outlier. I mean, I mean, Aaron Donald is, you know, I think could go down, Tommy, as the greatest defensive tackle in the history of the NFL. I mean, you know, I know that you've probably got a bunch of them that you think are up there, but Aaron Donald will go down as one of the greatest. He's making $31 million a year, all right? Nobody thinks that that's what the position's going to demand. But what we've seen in recent years is DeForest Buckner get paid, Chris Jones get paid.

And now John Allen get paid. And now you're going to see, first of all, Jeffrey Simmons is going to get paid. To me, he's number two in the league. I put Aaron Donald in a class by himself. And then I think Simmons is in that next level. And then I think it drops to a lot of guys that include guys like John Allen and Duran Payne, and Dexter Lawrence and Quinn and Williams, the guy in New York, who's phenomenal. God, there are so many Alabama defensive tackles.

It's ridiculous. Hargrave and Cox. I mean, Cox is getting up there in age. But the point is, is that Washington's not going to be able to sign Doran Payne to a long-term deal unless they're thinking about $21 million a year or more. And so the last thing I'll say about this, and I'll let you weigh in. Tannenbaum, Mike Tannenbaum, a longtime GM of the Jets, and now I think he does a lot of stuff on NFL network. He said, Paying two defensive tackles is somewhat unusual, but his preference for Washington would be to keep Payne and Alan because they are the strength of your team. They each allow the other to thrive because they'll see a lot of one-on-ones if they're both there.

If I had Allen and Payne under contract, I would probably extend sweat or young, but not both, and then maybe draft a quarterback. This is the dilemma that Washington faces. If you sign paying to a big deal, sweat and young are up next. You know, Montez is, you know, they've picked up the fifth year option, but he's got to be extended, and I think they want to extend sweat. And then what do you do with Chase Young? Because you can't afford big investment into a quarterback, and right now you probably won't have it next year.

You know, you'll probably sign Taylor to an extension and draft somebody. That would be my preference at this point, because you're really, you're not going to sign Lamar Jackson, more likely. and not because he's the only big free agent, you know, guy. Unless Aaron Rogers becomes available, then I'd be interested. But it's going to be a challenge, but I'm telling you, Tommy, here's what you have to do. You've got to keep your best players. And Duran Payne's one of the best three to five players on the team. You've got to keep them. And then you can worry about sweat and you can worry about young down the road. You've got to worry about sweat sooner than later, but you don't

have to worry about Young other than picking up his option. But it may be hard to have all four of them. I think it is going to be hard to have all four of them. And there is one quote in that story from somebody who says that's a lot of money to invest in two defensive tackle. Just because it's not done doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I think your points are well taken. I think my question would be about Durant Payne is he contract hearing it. Are we seeing a performance performance based on his contract year. Fair enough. You never know.

You've got to take a gamble, I guess. I mean, you know, seeing guys not perform well in their contract here. So at least we know money does motivate him, but if he gets paid, we don't know what he's going to be like. But you've got to take that chance. I'd rather take my chance with the guys in front of me

who I have to deal with than worry about the future of the guys I'm going to have to do. Especially when the guys right in front of you are really good, really good, and among your best players on the team. And right now, really, the reason probably more than any other that Washington is 7 and 5 and they have a chance to make the postseason, is Alan Payne leading that defense. You know, there's this tackles for loss stat that I referenced a few weeks back because I thought it was really incredible that Duran Payne and John Allen were basically at that point, I think both in the top five in that stat. Tackles for loss, you know, is a tackle for loss when you stop somebody, you know, behind the line of scrimmage with a tackle.

And what I noticed about that stat when I pulled it up several weeks ago is just every player on the list is a great player. Like it's not one of those things where you luck your way into a bunch of tackles for loss. You have to be really, really good to get a lot of tackles for loss. Max Crosby is one of the best. He leads the league with 17. Zadarius Smith is an outstanding player. He's second with 15. And then at number three is John Allen with 14 tackles for loss.

And tied for fourth is Duran Payne with 13 tackles for loss. Tied with Duran Payne are Micah Parsons, Nick Bosa, and Brian Burns. And then you go down the list. Like the next group of players includes Christian Wilkins, Montez Sweat, who's eighth, Chris Jones, Matt Judon, Grady Jarrett, Aaron Donald, Miles Garrett, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Cam Jordan's on the list, Josh Sweets on the list. Like, there aren't names on this list that you don't know. So it is, you know, I asked this guy Nick Ackridge, who I like a lot.

I asked him yesterday, you know, Duran's overall ranking per PFF isn't super high amongst defensive tackles. It's, you know, it's high, but it's not at the top of the list. but he explained it. He said it's because John and Duran are playing so many snaps. They're playing an inordinate number or percentage of the defensive snaps because they don't really have that much depth, you know, along that defensive front. They hoped it would be the guy from Alabama, Phil Mathis, that they drafted in the second round.

And, you know, the kid Ridgeways played well, he has. But, you know, eventually, you know, when you're taking, when it's that high in percentage of snaps, you're going to have a couple of plays that aren't as good. But he essentially said their best plays are right up there with the best players in the game at the position. I would sign Duran Payne. I would figure out a way to keep him and John Allen together.

They've got a young nucleus on defense right now. They've drafted well in the mid to later rounds. Really, they have. You got to give them credit. You know, Benjamin St. Juice, Cameron Curl, Derek Forrest. You know, Christian Holmes got a start the other day, and it looks like he might get another one this Sunday. And then, you know, they've obviously got the first rounders along the defensive front along with Jamie Davis. But Cole Holcomb, I think, you know, healthy is a decent player.

But I don't want them to lose what they've had this year, which is the ability to shut down the run for the most part, pressure the passer, and really be an outstanding defensive football team led by. these two defensive tackles. So it's good. I would agree with that. And let's remember, they're going to have $26, what, or $28 million off the books next year with Carson Wenskine. Unless he comes in and leads

him to a playoff victory or two. Yeah, there we go. I wanted to mention also that Joey Sly, did you see this, the kicker? You know, that's another reason they've won five out of six out of the last seven. I mean, he's 14 to 15,

and he's 14. He's 14. He missed the extra point, and that could have been a big part of the story on Sunday, for sure. But Joey Sly was named NFC Special Teams Player of the Month. He was perfect on all 10 of his field goal attempts in November, and remember, had the 58 and 55-yarder at Philadelphia. And by the way, doesn't really give up many kickoff returns. He seems to boot those things deep into the end zone or out of the end zone consistently. Their kick coverage is good, too.

Their punt coverage is outstanding. They've been good on special teams. So, anyway, did you have anything else? I got nothing else for you, boss. Oh, yeah, I wanted to tell you a story. Okay. I wrote this in my column earlier this week, and I just wanted to mention it. After the game last Sunday, I was in the commander's locker room,

and Tony McGee was at the game last week. Right. Tony McGee, I mean, used to be around a lot. He hosts his own Redskins' commanders' show now on YouTube, used to be on TV all the time. But he has to live around here. I think he lives in Atlanta. But he was in town last week.

He was at the game, and he's walking around the locker room after the game. And I'm always very sensitive to this. So I walked over to Carson Went. I mean, that Carson went, I walked over to Montez Sweat. I introduced myself to him. I said, you see that guy over there? That's Tony McGee. I said, he used to play for this team and was on a Super Bowl champion team.

He played 14 years in the league, and he had 103 sacks. Yeah. Mack the sack. And his eyes lit up. Montez's sweat. His eyes lit up. He said, wow. He said a 100-sac club member, I got to go over a meet him.

So he walked over and he introduced himself to Tony McGee. He shook his hand, said what an honor it was to meet him. And he said, as he was walking away, I hope some of those hundred sacks were up off on me. Very, very, very nice. I love that story. And I thought it was a nice acknowledgement Tony McGee. Because, I mean, that's the legacy, the legacy connection. I think that's important for all people.

Yes, definitely. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, I want to share that with me. I like that his reaction was that. Yes. The reaction was great. Yeah, I mean, because you could get the reaction from some young players.

Yeah, man, what else you need? You know, do you need it? Yeah. Can I help you with anything else? But the fact that he, you know, recognized it was excited about it. I think that says something about Montess what? I think it does. Okay, doke.

I hate it. For Sunday? Oh, yeah. I want your final prediction on the same. score Sunday. You don't let you, you think the Giants are going to win. Yeah, Giants win 2717. Barclay runs for 140 starts. I'll tell you what, if they can run the football, they're going to have a chance like Atlanta did. I'll have my prediction tomorrow. We'll preview the game. Tonight, by the way, I almost gave out the Patriots as a smell test pick. I kind of like them. It's three and a half. There's a lot

of sharp money. Hell of a game tonight. I mean, that AFC East is like the NFC East. And, you know, I was looking at this earlier. If Buffalo loses to the Patriots tonight in Foxborough, they're 0 and 3 in the division. I mean, the team that I think actually might be the second best team in the NFL or one of the top three teams in the NFL would be 0 in their division. They would also be, you know, at that point a half game back of Miami. The AFC East is wild down the stretch. They play other so much. I think Buffalo still has all three teams.

Somebody's got two, maybe it's the Patriots that play the Jets twice or the Dolphins twice, something like that, I forget. But that division is just as exciting as the NFC East with one exception, and that is all four teams are actually in the race to win the division. I mean, a little bit less so, the

Patriots. How about the Jets? I mean, what a season they're having. And it looks like they made the right choice going to Mike White. All right, we're done if you don't have anything else, do you? Nothing else, Paul, if you have a good weekend. You too, and Tom, you'll be back with me on Tuesday, and Cooley will be with me tomorrow.