The Kevin Sheehan Show - How Much Longer For Heinicke?

Episode Date: October 26, 2021

Kevin and Thom opened with some Dusty Baker/World Series talk and then got to the Washington Football Team. Much of the WFT conversation today was about the way Ron Rivera talked about Taylor Heinicke yesterday and whether or not it was an indication that they are still in the mode of wanting to see more of him. Thom doesn't know how Kevin is able to watch the NBA...that was the finishing conversation on the show today.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The podcast today is presented by DirecTV stream.

Get your TV together with the best of live and on demand. Learn more at directtv.com. For a Hall of Fame baseball voter, is this the best time of the year tonight? Game one of the World Series, October, baseball. This used to be front and center for me when I was a kid, Tommy, even as a teen or as a young adult. It just doesn't seem that way anymore.

But the World Series, for those that don't know, starts tonight. Are you excited about it? Yes, I'm very excited about it. I mean, I have a personal interest in this in rooting for Dusty Baker. to win a World Series, even if he is leading. I compared Dusty Baker leading the Astros to Lee Marvin leading the convicts in the dirty dozen, you know. Yeah, well, I mean, that's a good analogy. I mean, he's Bert Reynolds in what you call it, the longest yard.

In the longest yard. Of course, I think the inmates were better guys than the actual guards themselves. But, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people do not want to see the Houston Astros win a World Series, but at the same time are rooting for Dusty. A lot of people. I mean, I'm sure most of the people inside baseball in the business of the game are conflicted, because I'm sure they're rooting for Dusty, but they can't stand the idea. And there's still a lot of resentment against the assholes,

because a lot of people think that they got away with it with little. to, in terms of consequences, little with, you know, because they're cheating. So, yeah, there's a lot of conflict going on there. And no one feels passionately about the Braves one way or the other, not even brave fans, to be honest with you. They're not a great fan base. You know, I haven't seen any of the World Series pressers. I just, one of the things that I loved about Dusty when he was here is every presser.

there'd be another big name dropped. You know, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, you know, I remember specifically him talking about the doors, Jim Morrison and the doors, and him talking about Nelson Mandela, and Al Addles is another one. You can probably remember more of them, but it was one name drop after another with Dusty. So have we gotten any Bill Walsh or Jim Morrison drops or not? I haven't seen any. I'm sure there have been. I haven't noticed that.

You know, my best one, one of the best moments for that was when he's in Washington here, and he tells a story before the game about how Bill Walsh, we told him a story about Joe Don Loney, be very talented, but slightly offbeat running back from the NFL from the 60s, who played for among other teams, the Washington football team. And so Dusty's telling these Joe Don Looney stories. So later that night, in the stands are Sonny Jurgensen and Billy Kilmer. So I go sit with them for a couple of innings, and Billy asked me,

well, what's Dusty like? And I said, you won't believe it, but he's told a story about, Joe Don Bate, Joe Don Looney, before the game, and Sonny played with him here in Washington and saw what a crazy man he was. So they really got a kick out of that. So he never know what kind of name he's going to drop. He's been very well connected over the years because he's very open to people. He's very accepting of people.

You never told me that you went. I don't remember, and you would have told me, me this story on a show or on a podcast. I don't remember you telling me that at a Nats game, you went and sat with Sunny and Billy. What game was it? Do you remember? Was it a playoff game? No, it was a regular season game. They were sitting in the president's club seats. I managed to basically get my way in there, even though I was kind of banned from the president club seat after the day of cast and left. Yeah. But I managed to squeeze my way in. And, to sit with those guys for a couple of innings, and they kept pumping me for information about the team.

That's interesting. They were very interested. So I just found the article when Dusty Baker was hired in November of 2015, and it's just, it's a Dan Steinberg special with, you know, all of the quotes and all of the mentions. And I got some of them, but I missed a lot of them. So Steinberg wrote, I tried to keep a list of the names that Baker dropped on Thursday. It's far from comprehensive, but it includes Barack Obama, Stevie Wonder, Nelson Mandela, The Doors. I do remember that. Al Addles, Bill Russell, Bill Walsh, Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Henry Aaron, Sammy Sosa, Will Clark, Joey Votto, and Ken Griffey Jr.

I mean, that's a good list for an entire season. Baked her knocked it out in just 35 minutes. There are a couple of quotes in here, Dusty Baker on Washington, D.C. quote, I do know quite a few politicians from the president on down. It's a perfect fit because of the culture here, the educational system here. I'd like to turn my son on to the diversity that's here. Last night I went to a Wizards game and I saw people from all over the country and all over the world.

I used to call myself back in the day international bake, even though I wasn't international yet. Now I have an opportunity to be international and feel as such. I'm used to diversity, and this is probably the most diverse setting and the most diverse town that I've been in. That's interesting because obviously he's been in other cities like San Francisco that are pretty diverse as well. And he played in Los Angeles. Played in L.A. Dusty Baker on Talent, here's a name drop.

I asked a friend of mine, Al Addles of the Warriors. I said, Al, how come I always get teams and have to build them up? And he said, Dusty, you do more with less. and I told him that I was ready to do with, I was ready to do more with more. I'd like to try that. He always wanted to play. He always wanted to manage in Washington. Ever since baseball returned to D.C., he was always curious about coming to Washington.

He thought it was, like he said, kind of a perfect city for him, you know, with the strong African-American presence. in town. He always looked forward to coming here to Washington. It's a shame it didn't add better for him. Dusty Baker on the subject of love. I talked to the great Bill Russell and I talked to the great Bill Walsh. I mean Russell and Walsh before he even gets to an answer. Like I said before, and they told me that a team has to be close and I can bring closeness to a team. And they said that love was the key. And I was really shocked that they told me that. We talk about love nowadays. it's like, you know, talking crazy. The thing about it is I want to get this team together as soon as possible from top to bottom

because the great teams I've been on in organizations that I've been in from top to bottom, everyone believes. Oh, here's the doors line. I remember this. I didn't remember the context. Dusty Baker on adapting and changing with times. He said, quote, well, I was pretty good before, you know. Adaptation is no problem for me. friends call me a chameleon because they think I can adapt to any place anytime, anywhere.

And so I would like to think that I transcend different generations like some musicians. I mean, Stevie Wonder still sounds good and the doors might sound even better. Here's a good one on Bryce Harper and Stardom, because remember he was taking over for Matt Williams and Bryce Harper was here and a young player. And he said, hey man, this guy can play. I mean, he can really play. I love watching him play. And the thing about it is, I'm not really intimidated or anything by stars because I was a star.

I wasn't as bright as star as some of these guys, but I was a star. I tell them I don't care how much money you make. Don't plan on giving me any of your money. I'm not giving you any of mine. But when the game starts, it's not about money. It's about whether I kick your butt or you kick mine. And it's as simple as that. I wasn't as good a player as Bryce Harper, but I came into the league my first year.

I hit behind Hank Aaron. And I thought I was the cat's meow at the time. And I kind of got jacked up a couple of times by the older guys. One time I had somebody's hand around my throat because I was kind of a little too cocky. But you learn. Yeah, he is an absolute, quote, machine and a name-dropping machine. So there hasn't been a lot of, I mean, I'm going to be candid with you. I haven't watched any of the buildup to this World Series.

I'll watch the game tonight. And I am rooting for Dusty as well. I really want Dusty to get this. And the Astros thing, whatever. I mean, I'm not invested as a hardcore baseball fan or baseball traditionalist. And yeah, I'm angered that they won a World Series that they cheated to get. I understand that. But they also lost a World Series that they tried to cheat to get.

And that was to our team, the Nationals. But I would love to see Dusty win. That is the storyline. It would have been so much better if it were against the Dodgers, though. Yes. Yeah, it would have been because for the Dodgers, it would have been such a revenge factor involved in that. Atlanta is kind of a bland in terms of a storyline. I mean, except for the good baseball, and they played great baseball over the second half of the season

after they made those great trade deadline deals that basically won the penned for him. Dusty was a good player. Yeah, I remember him. Over 19 years, he had 242 home runs, drove in over 1,000 runs, nearly had 2,000 hits, and had a 278 batting average. He had one year where he had 30 home runs, 86 RBIs, and batted 291. There was another year where he batted 320 one year. So, yeah, he would be good, not great. But he was a good player.

Tommy, did he win a World Series with the Dodgers in the late 70s? Wasn't he on one of those teams that beat the Yankees? 81. He was on the 81 team that won a World Series. By the way, you know, you talk about the Braves, and I watched Game 6. Man, Walker Bueller was within one pitch of getting out of what turned out to be the decisive fourth inning in that game.

It was, God, I was rooting for the Dodgers. I don't know why. I wanted Trey Turner to be in a World Series. series and I wanted Scherzer to pitch game seven. You know, we, well, I haven't talked about this at all because I haven't had you to talk about this with. But, you know, Scher opted out of game six said he had a dead arm, you know, before game six on Saturday night against the Braves.

And Bueller ended up pitching on three days rest. I don't know if Scher would have pitched game seven, but that relief appearance in some of the taxing work, and they put a lot of it on just the fact that they were consistently chasing the Giants down the stretch and the entire roster and pitching staff was, as they described, overworked and taxed. And that's ultimately why they lost to the Braves. They beat the Giants in the Division Series. But Scherzer was scheduled to pitch game six, and he opted out of that game. You know that, right? Yeah, I know that. I know that. Look, Max Scherzer has, obviously, from what we know about him here in Washington, has earned the benefit of the doubt

in terms of, of, of, of his, you know, of his, for lack of a better word, his odd field courage. If he could pitch, he's going to pitch, but he's not stupid enough to hurt the team if he can't pitch. So, look, the Dodgers caught a lot of grief because their front office manages the games, not the manager. and the way they handled pitching was horrendous throughout the playoffs, and it wound up costing them. You know, I mean, so, you know, it's funny because, you know, there were a lot of people in baseball rooting against the Dodgers as well because, you know, they know they're a front-off eccentric managing team.

Neither one of these teams, I don't know the Braves that well, so I shouldn't say this. But I'm guessing neither one of these teams are front office-centric. That doesn't mean the front office doesn't have a say in what's going on, but they are more manager-oriented in their game decisions than the Dodgers are. The star of that National League series was Rosario, the lead-off hitter for the Braves. I mean, my God. One of the guys they got at the trading deadline.

And what a postseason he's had. I mean, he's hitting in the postseason, 474 with a 524 on base percentage, 789 slugging percentage, and a 1.313 OPS. He has not had a game yet in the postseason where he hasn't gotten at least, at least one hit. And he's had two decisive home runs and his home run off of Bueller in that decisive inning the other night. God, Bueller was so close to getting out of that inning. That was some drama. You know, that game Saturday night, it was funny going into that game. I really had this sense that the Dodgers were a major underdog, even though they weren't from an odd

standpoint. I just had this feeling that the Braves, that baseball people really thought the Braves were going to put the Dodgers away and they were ready to be put away. And because of the pitching situation and Buehler pitching on three days' rest, it was going to hurt them. And they were right. I mean, it was close. like it was, you know, it was a one-one game in the fourth inning, and Bueller had, you know, had worked hard to get to that point,

but he was a couple of, you know, he had multiple pitches that were so close to getting him out of that inning. And then Rosario had the three-run shot, and that was pretty much game over at that point. Who do you like in the World Series? Not who are you rooting for. Who do you think is going to win it? I think Atlanta's going to win.

I think they just got too much momentum. going for them. I think they have a better lineup than Houston. Not much, but a better lineup than Houston. You know, I'm rooting for it dusty, but I think Atlanta's going to win. I think it'll go, it could go six or seven games. I don't think it's going to be a short series. Houston is a minus, I've seen them anywhere from minus 140 to minus 160, so take the average minus 150. Actually, I'm looking at my bookie right now. They're a minus 150 favorite for the series, but I think you're right. In fact, I think I'll probably put, you know, a wager on the Braves to win this series. I think they're the better team. I hope Dusty doesn't make

some sort of managerial gaff in one of these games that costs them, or at least not one. Every manager does these days. I mean, because everybody's a manager at home. Everyone's a manager and a coach. Yeah, they all are, you know. I mean, they don't have to discuss. with the bullpen pitchers before the game to see who's ready and who's not. You know, and who he can call it. So, yeah, every manager gets hooked. I mean, the Dodgers really got road. And the Dodgers are a disappointment.

I mean, the highest payroll in baseball for years, a superstar team. And all they've got to show for it is one 60-game World Series title. Yeah. 60-game season world series title. I mean, that's an asterisk. title. That's true, but they did win 106 games this year. I mean, they've been really, really good. I know. And they probably, you know, without the Dodgers cheating, maybe they win another World Series. All right. Without the Astros cheating. I mean the Astros, that's what I meant.

All right. So you're picking the Braves. I think I am too. I think I am too. But I'm not rooting. Well, I will be rooting for that if I wager on it. Sorry, Dusty, as much as I like you. Okay. What did you think about the 24 to 10 loss? at Lambo on Sunday? I thought it was predictable. I thought, I mean, I have this impression. I could be under an illusion that the past two games, including Sunday, that the defense played better, and that there were actually, like Ron Rivera's favorite

word, opportunities. There were opportunities for Washington to make this a much more competitive game. many opportunities. And so I think, you know, I think he's right in the sense that on the defensive side of the ball, they are seeing some progress, you know. But offensively, they're still very limited and getting more limited as the weeks go by. They see this step back offensively the past couple weeks with every game. Right.

I mean, Terry McClure, you can't even count on him anymore. Well, I mean, he did drop that touchdown. He did have seven catches for 122 yards. I know. A lot of them reaching way up into the sky to snag him, yeah. Exactly. I expect so much of them, though. I know.

I guess. Look, in a game like that, you can't drop that third and goal touchdown pass. That's right in his hands. It's an easy catch. I've said this about Terry McLaren before. Terry McCorn's a number one receiver, and certainly at the very least, like a top half of the league, a top 16 number one receiver. But I don't think he's like a top 10.

There are a lot of great receivers in the league. I mean, it's not a knock on him. There are so many great receivers. And one of them, by the way, Devante Adams, we may not see in what right now is shaping up to be the game of the year. On Thursday night, the 6-1 Packers at the 7-0 Arizona Cardinals. That's a shame. as a vaccinated player, he will have the opportunity to pass, you know, post two negatives within a 24-hour period.

So he's not out completely yet. That would really be a shame to not see the Packers at full strength for the game on Thursday night. I digress. I think Terry McClorn is a great. He's the best receiver Washington's had. You know, look, Deshawn Jackson in terms of just a player offensively that you've got a game. plan for. Maybe the single most game planned for player on offense over the last nine years. I mean, obviously you had to game plan for Griffin in that rookie season. Let's not go nuts here.

Pierre Garsohn's was the best receiver of Washington had. I didn't say he wasn't the best receiver. I said the player that defensive coordinators had to game plan for. Deshawn Jackson was a different breed when it came to that, when he was available, when he was interested, when he wasn't playing nipple twist with the head coach. Yeah, I, but all I'm saying is that Terry McCorn's a great receiver, but there are probably 12 minimum. I've done this before on the show, so I'm not going to do it right now. But there are at least 12 that I would probably take before him. And by the way, a couple of those guys are rookies like Jamar Chase, who right now is emerging. as a clear top 10 receiver and the obvious odds-on favorite for the NFL offensive rookie of the year.

I agree with all that. I agree with all that. I think that McLaurin is their best player. I think that McLorn is their best player, too, although right now this year, in terms of who's playing best, it's a coin flip between him and John Allen. Jonathan Allen, yes. And I had him on the radio show. That was not an intended opportunity to plug. But if you want to listen to John Allen, he was on with me this morning on the radio show at the beginning of the third hour. You can find that at the Team 980.com. I like John a lot too, personally. He's a really good guy.

A lot of people that I know know him very well coached him at Stonebridge. And he, I think, let me just take 30 seconds on John Allen. He has been the best defensive play. on a bad defense. He's having an all-pro kind of a year. I don't know if he'll be rewarded with that if the defense continues to produce the results that it's produced, but he is having a big-time all-pro season. And remember when people were debating in the off-season as to whether or not he should be the guy that should get a long-term deal. They're like, no, you're not going to be able to afford to keep pain or young or sweat. They'll figure out a way

to keep all the people they want to keep. But John Allen is more than just a great player, which he is. He's also the maturity, the leadership, and the culture that Ron Rivera wants, this coaching staff wants. He's just a first-rate young person. And by the way, a big-time leader on that team. They don't have a lot of that. They're trying to get more of it.

Terry McClearn, hopefully, is that on the offensive side of the ball. It's not like they've got a lot of bad guys. They don't. They just don't have a lot of guys, I think, that really stand out in those categories. Right. I wanted to real quickly just read this email that I got from Evan. Evan wrote yesterday, Kevin, and this is very nice. I don't think I've ever missed one of your Monday shows after a game.

as a long-time fan, not old enough to remember the glory days. Your breakdowns of games on Mondays have been must-listen for me and my father for years. That's very nice. But of course, I knew that the butt was coming. But with that said, I had a major issue with your recap of the game on Sunday. On your good list, which is the things I liked list, you had the pass rush and the offensive line. I think you were only half right. The D-line had a good first half, but all three of its sacks came,

in the first half. It was non-existent in the second half. The offensive line was really good in the first half also, but gave up four sacks in the second half. It was not very good in the second half. Why on earth would you say that the defense played really well in the offensive line played really well when they only played well for a half? Anyway, thank you, Evan, for the email. By the way, you can tweet me too at Kevin Sheen, D.C. And I appreciate the kind words. and I appreciate the feedback. So it's funny because somebody else had tweeted this, which is why I think this one stuck with me yesterday.

It is hard, I understand, the last two weeks to say anything nice about a defense. When two weeks ago they gave up 500 yards, 31 points, and 11 of 16 on third down to the Chiefs. And the other day, they gave up 6 of 12 on third down, and they gave up another long drive to open up the game, which put them into a trailing position. The defense has been better the last two weeks, but it's all relative. I mean, that's compared to what it's been.

So you're almost required to understand that answer. You're required to have seen the five games that came before it. Because, yes, it was much worse. And yes, I have seen much more in terms of encouraging, signs from the defensive line in particular. The offensive line has been the pleasant surprise of the season so far. The offensive line is totally held up. The expectations were that this was a major weakness on the team.

We spent a lot of time in the off season. You know, Sam Cosmy, he's going to have to be great. Well, you know what? He has been great. And then when he got hurt, Cornelius Lucas came in and played well. Leno's been great. Flowers has been great. Schweites are incredible in relief of Brandon Sheriff.

So anyway, this is where, no offense, Evan, but you're actually, you're wrong. And you're wrong because the defense didn't produce results in the second half because the defense wasn't on the field for the most part in the second half. The first half of the game, the Packers actually had rounding up an 18 to 12 minute time of possession advantage. In the second half, rounding up, Washington had a 21 to 9 minute time of possession advantage. Green Bay only ran 20 offensive snaps in the second half. In the second half. They just didn't have the ball. And when they had it, they had it at their own one-yard line,

their own three-yard line following Washington's big struggles in the red zone. and then, you know, like at their 20, the only time they had good field position was when they quickly got the fumble at the beginning of the second half and on third down and three, they threw the quick game back shoulder to Tanya against Davis. So, no, the defense actually played,

the pass rush was great on Sunday. It was, well, let me just say, it was the best it's been all year long. And the reason it didn't produce results in the second half, half is it didn't have an opportunity to produce results in the second half. Green Bay, just so you know, did punt twice and fumble in the second half on three of its five drives. They only scored in the second half. They scored 10 points, but the defense played fine, you know, throughout. The opportunity just wasn't there in the second half. As far as the offensive line goes,

yeah, they gave up sacks in the second half, but do you know when they came? They came with the game out of hand. The game had already been decided, and Hainike took three of his four sacks when they were in dropback mode down 24 to 7 and then 24 to 10. I mean, when you're team off against a team down by three scores and then two scores, you're going to be under duress. They know he's got to drop back and throw. But up until that point when the game was still, I guess, technically a competition, the offensive line did a really good. good job. But I wanted to use this email as a way to get into this, Tommy, because I think it's a really important point, specifically back to the defense. And somebody sent me some data

after the radio show this morning, which is really, really helpful. So I went back during one of the, after, you know, reading this email. And I went back and just looked at every single game so far. Do you know that Washington hasn't had a two-score-le? lead in any game this year. Not one. Their biggest lead in any game this year is four points over the Giants and over the Falcons at the very end. And the reason I bring that up is because they haven't had the opportunity defensively where the offense is in must throw mode, you know, in comeback mode, down two scores. And that's where defenses really tend to thrive. I'm not saying that a great defense doesn't thrive throughout regardless of the

score. But last year even, some of the big results came as they had some leads in games. So somebody sent me this. My guy Roe Chaser, 1967 on Twitter sent me this. And this is also good data to support this. So far this year. Wait a minute. Is this this year? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. My fault. Damn. This is 2019 data. Why is he sent? Why did you send me the 2019 data? I thought this was for this year, and that's why you sent it. You should fire. You should fire.

I should fire him. He's not a good producer. Usually he sends me good information. Anyway, I don't have the data on snaps in the second half while trailing, but Washington's pretty much been behind in every single game. Now, they had a lead in the opener, 16, 13 against the Chargers, against the Giants, if you recall, they were down in the second half. before taking the lead in the second half, 27, 26, ended up winning 30 to 29.

They obviously never had a lead against Buffalo. Atlanta, they didn't have a lead in the second half until the very end of the game. They came from eight down to win it, 34 to 30. Against the Chiefs, they were up in the second half by three and then went down two scores pretty quickly. The point is the defense sucks, and it's one of the reasons they've been in this position, because of the defense. But the numbers aren't there in terms of sacks in part because they just haven't had the opportunity in even one game to accumulate the two or three sacks that usually come in the way that Green Bay sacks came against Tineke at the end of the game on Sunday.

That's my only point. Look, it's a good point except somebody might argue, well, the defense puts them in that position. I just said that. Where are they, okay. Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah. They're in that position primarily because of the defense this year. I understand that.

But, you know, if they had an offense, it was also explosive that could keep, you know, even with a bad defense, somehow just once. That could go toe to toe. You're right. Just once had more than a, I mean, they've had a four-point lead is the biggest lead they've had this year. Four-point lead. That's crazy through seven games. Actually, you know what? I don't know how crazy that is. I would imagine that it's not that much of an aberration for a bad team

to not have had a two-score lead. I did look up the fact that Detroit, who's 0 and 7, they've had a two-score lead. They were up 10-0 on the Rams on Sunday. It may have happened another time as well. But the other thing that I wanted to mention, and we're going to talk about Taylor Heineke in the next segment. Tommy, this is the get-right game for Washington's defense this week.

they have not, I mean, you can argue, people were trying to argue that Atlanta was the get-right game for their defense, and I said, nope, it's not going to be. Matt Ryan and, you know, Kyle Pitts and Calvin Ridley, they're very capable of putting up numbers and putting up points, and they did. I warn people with the Giants and Falcons games, if you think this is the get-right game for this defense, it might be the get-right game for the opposing offenses. And it was, as it turned out. Yeah. Obviously, you don't view the Saints, Chiefs, or Packers, certainly not the Chiefs or Packers, as get right opportunities for a defense that's struggling. But Denver is your get-right opportunity for the defense.

Denver is struggling offensively. Right now, in context, this is the worst offensive team they faced, and that includes the Giants in week two. If you were facing the Giants right now with all the injuries that they have, that's different than the Giants in week two. And they have, right now, just like if you're arguing that Denver shouldn't be the worst offense you face, well, that's fully healthy. Now, they are getting Jerry Judy back, I think, this week.

But Teddy Bridgewater is really all of a sudden struggling. Now, he hasn't been completely healthy. I understand that. But in the last three games, Teddy Bridgewater has thrown five interceptions and been sacked nine times in the last. three games. Now, that's against Cleveland, the Raiders, and Pittsburgh. You know, three good teams, two excellent defensive teams. But this should be, and I'm not saying it will work out this way. In fact, I'm not going to predict it. I think Denver's looking at Washington saying this is our opportunity to get back to 500 after we've lost four games to four really good teams. Or three really good

teams, the Ravens, Raiders, and Browns. Their other loss was to the Steelers on the road. Steelers aren't good, but, you know, I think the Steelers are 500, right? This is Denver's opportunity with the long rest, maybe getting healthy. Von Miller's health is a big deal this week. We'll watch that. But this is their opportunity to get to 4 and 4 in a, you know, in an AFC that's going to be kind of wide open as far as wild cards go. So I don't love the game Sunday right now. I know a lot of you think this is, you know, this is a should win situation.

I don't agree with that at all. I don't think this is a should win situation. I think this is a chance to win situation. Best chance they've had in a while. Best chance for the defense to actually rise up and have a good game statistically and otherwise. But I don't like their chances that much on Sunday. Denver's a three and a half point favorite still.

There's a reason for that. Just so you know, well, that's because they're at home. Exactly. But if this game were on a neutral field, like FedEx Field, which these days would be considered neutral for the most part. But no, a real neutral field. Denver would still be, you know, it would be a pick-em game or Denver would be a half-point favorite. So the odds makers think that there's zero difference between these two teams.

Zero. And I would agree with that. And Denver's not playing well. They're not. They're really playing like a really bad team. I mean, and I mean, if you watch them, particularly in their last game against the Browns, you would be sitting there saying, well, this is, this is to get right game for Washington. Case Keenham beat them.

Yeah, I know, I know. So, I mean, if you can't beat these guys, that I don't know who's left on your schedule, maybe besides Carolina, who you're going to beat. Well, the Giants and Eagles. You get four games against the Giants and the Eagles. I know. I know. But, you know, I mean, NFC East games are always unpredictable.

But, I mean, I don't know where the wins are going to come from. I don't know where. I mean, if you look on the schedule, and I think, I mean, I think this year it pretty much had fit what I think most people thought it would, or at least what I thought it would. I don't know where they're, they've got 10 games left, right? Yeah, they played 7. They got 10 left. Right. I don't know where there are five wins they're going to come from to even go 5 and 5 during that 10 game stretch to wind up 7 and 10. Oh.

I don't know if that's 7 and 9. Well, I mean, I guess you could, this is what you would do to get to 5. Bram was on with me yesterday and Bram, you know, is predict. He's like Denver, Carolina, and then, you know, between the Eagles and Giants, you know, and maybe the Seahawks at home, you know, you can figure out a way to get three others. I've already mentioned this, and I, you know, some of you, by the way, pushed back when I said Denver would be favored. No, I knew they'd be favored. They'll be an underdog against the Buccaneers.

At Carolina will be interesting now. I don't know what that line will be. Before I would have told you that the Carolina Panthers would have been favored. Carolina is very good defensively, but they are obviously struggling offensively with the quarterback situation there. Darnold's not playing well. So I don't know what the line will be. I'll still guess that Carolina will be like a one-point favorite.

Seattle, if Russell Wilson's back, will be favored. The Raiders will obviously be favored, maybe a double-digit favorite by the time we get there. The Cowboys will be favored in both of their games here and there. And then you get the Eagles and the Giants. and, you know, I would say they've got a chance to be favored, certainly against the Eagles at home, and maybe even in the, you know, the Giants on the road at the end of the year. So if you just went with that, you'd come up with maybe three more to get to five. And that's kind of what I've been thinking for a couple of weeks now.

I think five and 12 is the kind of season that we're headed towards. But if this, but this Sunday is the chance for the defense to get right, okay, against, Maybe the Carolina could also be that opportunity in three weeks after the buy in the Buccaneer game. But this is a chance to really get right defensively. Have your defense really lead you. But don't forget, Denver, when they're healthy, they're pretty good defensively too. They've got the best player on the field Sunday when he's healthy, and that would be Von Miller. But if somehow they got the win going into the buy week at three and five, that would be a deep breath.

moment because two and six heading into the by week with the Buccaneers staring at them on the other side is ugly. I don't want to start discussing Code Red or anything like that. It's ridiculous for a team that's not going anywhere this year. But if you want to keep a competitive season, you know, a seven type of win season alive in your own mind, well then Sunday's a must. Yes, it is. Now, let me make it clear. The five number I was talking about was for them to go five and five in their last 10 games. I know, which would make them seven and ten. I understood that. I just want to make sure that's clear.

And I told you that they're only going to be favored in max three games. Okay. That was my point. They're only going to be favored. You have them going five and five out of the last ten. This is a stretch, but they might be favored in three of the games. At Panthers, Eagles at home, Giants on the road. Those would be the ones. if Russell Wilson's back for Seattle.

If Gino Smith is still the quarterback, well, they could be favored over Seattle. And obviously, if Dak Prescott gets hurt and Derek Carr gets hurt and Tom Brady gets hurt and all these things could change. But as of now. By the way, one other quick thing on the defense and going back and watching some of what happened in the second half,

and then going back and just watching some of their blitz pressures in general, Montez Sweat had the best game he's had all year. That's encouraging to go with John Allen, who has really been borderline unblockable at times this year. They do have, look, on the defensive front, they have talent. John Allen, Duran Payne, Matt Ionitis, Montez Sweat, and Chase Young are all talents. They got to put it together, and it'd be nice if they could play in a game with a two-scorer lead at some point this year. When we come back, a conversation about Taylor Heineke off of things that Ron Rivera said yesterday, right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

So Ron Rivera held his Monday presser yesterday, and I want to talk with Tommy about a couple of things that he said about Taylor Heineke. Now, let me first mention that without being asked about it, he gave an update on Ryan Fitzpatrick for the first time. And this, by the way, follows the report from Ian Rappaport on Sunday, starting to realize that Rivera talks to the NFL network in Rappaport a little bit. I think Bruce had relationships with Schaefter and guys at the NFL network as well. Anyway, he said, as far as FITS is concerned, what I've gotten from the doctors is that he has an MRI that's going to be in two weeks, and that's when they will be able to evaluate him. So the report from Rappaport on Sunday that he's, you know, this has been a slow recovery. And the fact that we're not going to get an MRI until after the Sunday, which is the buy week, I just think that it's becoming a little bit more obvious that there's a chance that Fitzpatrick just isn't going to be available or play this year.

I think that's a reasonable conclusion. I don't know. If he were available, I'm ready to watch him. In the conversation about Kyle Allen or Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kyle Allen, I understand everybody's feelings, and I don't feel overwhelmingly passionate one way or the other about him or about the situation, to be honest with you, because I'm losing so much passion in general.

But, you know, some of these things are interesting conversations, I guess, two and five team. I think that they like Kyle Allen, but when I play for you what Ron Rivera said yesterday, I'm not so sure that what I said yesterday on the podcast, which is I think we'll see Kyle Allen after the bye week if Taylor Heineke doesn't play well and the team loses Sunday in Denver. I don't think that I feel that way today. So I'll get to that in a moment.

But on Fitzpatrick real quickly, if he's healthy at any point and ready to play football, I really want to see Ryan Fitzpatrick now. Remember there was that one moment during the season, you know, earlier. I'm like, are we really going to be any better off with Ryan Fitzpatrick than we are, Taylor Heineke? I kind of feel now like they would be. Or at least I want to see Ryan Fitzpatrick in the game. I want to see him in the game. That's a reasonable conclusion as well, not that they would be because I've maintained all along.

they have three backup quarterbacks on their roster, just different degrees of how good those backups would be. And I mean, I still think that Ryan Fitzpatrick, you know, even in year 17, is a better option on the field than Taylor Heineke. I think that that is true now, and I think there was a moment, whether it was the giant game or the Atlanta game or something where I'm like, you know,

I don't know. Is it going to be that much better? I don't know if it would be that much better. But here's what I do know. You know, Taylor Heineke is a path to nowhere in my minds. I don't know if Ron Rivera shares the same feeling. Again, I'm going to get to this in a minute. But I'd like to see Fitzpatrick. I wouldn't care if they played Kyle Allen. I actually liked what I saw from Kyle Allen last year when he played. But let me get to what he said about Taylor Heineke. First of all, he was asked about Taylor Heineke's performance against the Packers after watching the tape. Here's what he said. Well, obviously, the only thing you really wish is on the touchdown or what wasn't a touchdown, you know, he just gets the ball across the goal line, you know, before he tries to protect himself.

And that was unfortunate. And other than that, I thought his performance was the type of performance that gives you a chance to win. So this was the first soundbite that I wanted you to hear from Ron Rivera yesterday talking about Taylor Heineke. When he said, I thought his performance was the type of performance that gives you a chance to win. Personally, Sunday, I didn't think he really gave you a performance that more times than not against a good team gives you a chance to win. That's my personal view. I didn't think he had a terrible game. I gave him a C for the game.

It was a mediocre performance. I love that he played more like Taylor Heineke, which he didn't against the Chiefs, and that he was running around and making plays and scrambling. He rushed for 95 yards. I'd like to see that every week. I know. I think that gives you a better chance with him at quarterback than last week did, but it's still not the type of performance generally, you know, week in and week out

that gives you a chance to beat good teams in this league. So I would disagree with him. But still, interesting from Ron that he said that it was the type of performance that gives you a chance to win. Then he said this when asked just about Heineke's season so far and his total evaluation of Heineke through seven games, here was his answer. Well, we've seen David, we've seen when he placed his personality,

you can see that, you can see the, to me, you can see the positive. You see his ability to move the team. You see his ability to make plays. One thing that we've kind of fallen off lately has been scoring in the red zone, especially in the last two weeks without opportunity. We haven't done it. To me, when you see him play cautious, I think he has tendency to make mistakes.

He's prone to those things. I do think that based on the things that we've seen and some of the misplaced he's had, I think that shows his inexperience because there are a couple things that when you watch some of the tape and you see some of the plays as they break down, David, you sit there and say,

wow, you know, now I think he's, he'll understand that he's got to throw it this way. Now I think he understands that when he sees this type of role by the corner coming down into position, I know I've got that throw the make. Those are the type of things I think we're starting to see, David, that some of his experience is showing. But I think, obviously, he has the skill set that you're looking for. He does have the ability to lead. But he's still, you know, young in terms of actual opportunities and experience as a quarterback in the league so far. There are two parts of that answer, Tommy, that I think are interesting.

But I'll let you respond to that answer first, because I'm just curious as to what you think and if you heard something there from the coach. I'm still going by the track record before his infatuation with Taylor Heineke. Look, Taylor Heineke is a little bit fun to watch, you can get caught up in the Taylor Heineke's story. I mean, Ron Rivera called Taylor Heineke Gutsy. His performance was gutsy after Sunday's game. I didn't think it was like Purple Heart Gutsy in particular.

And after the Tampa Bank, the Tampa game last year, the Wild Card game, he used the word gutsy again to describe Taylor Heineke. So I think he's got a little place and it's hard for this guy. I think he feels for him. But I also think that like all NFL coaches, when the quarterback decides to die for the end zone and falls a few inches short, I think they think,

I think they think this guy doesn't make good decisions. And ultimately, most coaches are going to come down on the side of a guy who makes good decisions. And Ron Rivera last year went out of his way to say that Kyle Allen makes good decisions. By good decisions, you mean what the coach wants you to do. That's a good decision for a coach. I don't think that's gone away in his mind. He may be a little bit infatuated with Taylor Heineke's, you know,

Gunslinger style. But Taylor Heineke on Sunday, it's going to make mistakes. stakes that are going to drive coaches nuts. And I think this is his last chance. I think Taylor Heineke does not perform well enough to win this game for Washington. I think Kyle Allen starts against Tampa in two weeks. That's what I said yesterday. I think I'm a little bit off that today.

So there are two things that really. stuck out to me in this answer. First of all, when he says that, you know, to me, when you see him play cautious, I think he has the tendency to make mistakes. He's prone to those things. Well, didn't we kind of earlier in the year kind of sense that they wanted him to dial some of the the, you know, the running around and playmaking and be more of a manager of the games? I can tell you this, all of the Taylor Heineke supporters, and I'm talking about the big time supporters, they believe that he's got a governor on him, that the coaches have put a governor on him until Sunday. And that even the touchdown that wasn't was because they've got him playing so cautiously.

Somebody mentioned that the high school coach, not the high school coach, my fault. I had the high school coach on talking about the kicker. last week on radio. The college coach at Old Dominion has been on various shows, including Galdi's podcasts. And somebody mentioned to me, first of all, that he talked about Taylor Heineke being the only five-reed quarterback he's ever had. Personally, I've never even heard of a five-reed quarterback, but I'm going to guess that if such a description exists, that there have been other five-reed quarterbacks other than

just Taylor Heineke. But anyway, I digress. One of the things that he apparently told Galdi, or maybe on another show, is that he felt that the coaches were really, you know, having him dial it back a little bit. So that was the first thing that sort of stuck out to me is when you see him play cautious, he's got the tendency to make mistakes. Okay, so now you don't want him to play cautious, which, by the way, to me, would be the best advice. Taylor, go out and be Taylor, like you were on Sunday.

You know, one read, you're the checkdown. You are a phenomenal athlete, and he really is a very good athlete. Greg Olson, who by the way was calling the game on Sunday, I don't think I mentioned this. I thought Greg Olson was excellent as an analyst. Oh, he was okay. And as one of Rivera's former players, you know, one of the things he harped on, he's like, I don't think anybody realizes what a phenomenal athlete, Taylor Heineckee is. He is a really good athlete.

And I think that it's, you know, you saw that at times on Sunday. Anyway, the second thing was this. When he said the following, he said, I think he understands that when he sees this type of role by the corner coming down into position, you know, I know I've got that throw to make. These are the types of things I think we're starting to see that some of his inexperience is showing. And then he says this, quote, I think obviously he has the skill set that you're, looking for. Obviously, he's got the skill set that you're looking for. Is that obvious? He's got, he's got, he does not have NFL starting arm strength. He does not have NFL, you know, consistent accuracy. He doesn't throw in timing. He doesn't throw people open. I don't

personally see that he's obviously got the skill set. But then comes to me, Tommy, the money part of this answer. And I'll tell you why. He says, he does have the ability to lead. He's still young in terms of actual opportunities and experiences as a quarterback in this league so far. One of the first things he started to talk about when it came to Dwayne Haskins, even when he was being complimentary of Dwayne Haskins, he's got to prove that he can be a leader. He's got to prove that he can lead. He told me that multiple times.

I specifically remember having Joe Gibbs on the show. Sometime between the time Rivera was hired. in January of 2020 and the beginning of training camp. And I remember asking him about Dwayne Haskins. And Joe, you may remember this, because I know I played this on the podcast and we talked about it. Joe did not give a ringing endorsement of Dwayne Haskins. It was very telling for Joe not to be overly positive or optimistic.

And one of the things he said is what Ron has to figure out and figure out soon is whether or not Dwayne Haskins has the ability to lead. And I think Ron really understands that. You have to have the leadership ability at that position. This is something that's very important to Rivera. He's talked about it. Gibbs spoke on his behalf about it. So that line, I don't want to make too much of it, but it stuck out to me because

what we have heard about Taylor Heineke is that his teammates love him. And he's got this ability, he's got this thing going on, whether it's charisma or whether it's because he's really smart or he's, whatever he is, he's likable and he has the ability to lead. And that followed him saying he obviously has the skill set that you're looking for. And then he ended it with he's still young in terms of actual opportunities and experiences as a quarterback in this league so far. He's played in eight and a half games, which by the way, if this were a first round pick or even a third round pick that was given the opportunity to start games this year, we would be saying it's too small of a sample size. And I think the whole feeling about if this guy was a third round rookie or a second round second year guy that didn't play it all last year or maybe played in a playoff game, I think the conversation would be different. Well, he's not viewing it from that lens. He's with this guy every day.

He knows what the locker room thinks. John Allen was on, again, the radio show this morning. He loves Taylor Heinecke. So I don't want to make a major leap in this direction, but it does make me wonder whether or not we are, first of all, in for the rest of the year of Taylor Heineke, getting the last 10 starts if he's still available and if Fitzpatrick isn't. And two, whether or not they've actually written him off as a future possibility.

I don't think that they would tell you that they aren't going to look at every quarterback in the draft or look at every quarterback in free agency or tradable quarterbacks. I'm not saying they think he's an elite franchise quarterback. But I do think that these are telling comments from the coach. as to what they're currently thinking about Taylor Heineke. I think it's infatuation versus love. I think he's infatuated with Taylor Heineke. Is he infatuated with Kyle Allen?

I think he loves Kyle Allen. Okay. Look, Kyle Allen, again, he traded to get Kyle Allen. One of the first things he did when he got here was trade for Kyle Allen. He kept Cam Newton on the, bench in Carolina to play Kyle Allen.

You know, I mean, Kyle Allen started the games because Cam Newton got hurt, but when he got healthy, he kept Kyle Allen as the starter. I think that's the guy he's been dying to play. The famous quote, I know, all those quotes,

I'm not saying those quotes are any more or less telling that this quote, but we've talked about this a lot. and when he said at the end of last year, somebody asked him if he could have, if Kyle Allen could have accomplished what Alex Smith did last year, leading the team to a five-and-one record and the NFC East Division title, Rivera said, if we had a healthy Kyle Allen, I think we could have.

I really do. I think we could have. And a big part of the reason is because Kyle, he's very similar to Alex in terms of his abilities. He's got the same kind of armwork. He makes good decisions like Alex does. He's got good footwork. I think we could have. I mean, I put a lot of value in that.

I mean, he thinks that they could have got seven and nine and won the division with Kyle Allen a quarterback. You think he forgot that? No. And, of course, we remember that quote. And by the way, I'd also add, not only did they trade for Kyle Allen, but they could have signed Taylor Heineke at any point for nothing, you know, before trading for Kyle Allen. So what's changed potentially, Tommy, is that they've had a chance to see Taylor Heineke as a starter and the impact he has on the locker room. And by the way, my guess is, just from afar, Kyle Allen doesn't have that same charisma or leadership ability.

That would be my guess. You know, he didn't, you know, Taylor Heineckee had outrageous success in college at the FCS level. Like, he's been a leader. He's been the guy. And one of the comments that Ron Rivera made a few weeks ago, I thought was telling, too, about Heineke when somebody said, you know, it was after a tough game, maybe it was the Buffalo game or something.

I don't remember specifically which game it was. But he said, oh, no, no, no, no, this guy has no issue with confidence. you're not going to you're not going to rattle him you're not going to make him feel any less confident he has the confidence it was a very positive way because i followed up with it with him on the show and he said you've got to have that in that position you've got to have that belief no matter what the last performance was you've got to believe you belong and he'll never have that issue so what's changed what's changed between the time they traded for kyle allen and the time that he's He mentioned last year that Kyle Allen would have produced the same results that Alex Smith produced. Is this time with Taylor Heineke as a starter and as the number one quarterback in his team's locker room? That would be my answer to you. I'm not predicting anything here. I think that, you know, I think there's absolutely a chance we could see Kyle Allen for the reasons that you mentioned.

They're the reasons that I mentioned even yesterday. And if Heineke really goes out Sunday and soils himself against the Broncos and they lose and they're two. and six, and they say, great guy, great leadership ability, but a pop gun arm. We can't, this is no future for us. Let's throw Kyle out there and let's see what happens until Fitz is ready, but really let's focus on whether or not we can get Kenny Pickett in the draft or some quarterback in the draft. But I think what the answer would be what's changed is they've had eight and a half games now,

or really seven and a half games, right, or six and a half games this year, of Taylor Heineke as a starter and everything that comes. comes with it in the locker room. Okay, but what I wrote in my column in the Washington Times, which people can read at Washington Times.com slash sports. And I'll retweet. It's basically said. It's basically said, thank you.

It's basically the same thing you just said. It comes down to this Sunday. I think Taylor Heineke's playing for his position on Sunday. That's basically what you just said. If he stinks, he's a lose. I said that yesterday. I said that yesterday. That's what I thought. After reading these comments, I'm not so sure anymore.

I think that it's possible that he's the guy for the duration. Unless Fitz is healthy. I think Kyle Allen has been burning a hole in Ron Rivera's back of Ron Rivera's head ever since he got him here, you know, wanting to play him. There's always been something to get in the way. People pointed out to me, well, why didn't he start him with the season? Well, Kyle Allen was still recovering from ankle surgery going in the training camp. Right. You know, it didn't get the work that the other two guys did.

Ron made it very clear that it was a two-quarterback competition, and Kyle Allen was not involved. Now, he doesn't do that if Kyle Allen is 100% healthy. So we don't really know at what point when Kyle Allen would have been healthy enough to play, but it certainly wasn't in training camp likely. So, I mean, that's the reason why in this. so-called phantom quarterback competition, the only kind that Ron Rivera likes to play, that Kyle Allen wasn't involved in training camp.

I tell you what, I think if Kyle Allen doesn't get hurt last year, they don't sign Fitzpatrick. I think Kyle Allen is your starter going into the season. Well, they certainly wouldn't have picked up Taylor Heideke late in the season either. Yeah, but see, here's part of the problem. Kyle Allen's been hurt as well. Taylor Heideke, the one thing you can say about him, the biggest concern was would he remain healthy and he hasn't been hurt so far? You know, the more and more. He hasn't been hurt.

He's been sturdy so far. The more and more, you know, we spend talking about this, the more and more, it just reinforces that as long as this ownership is here. And for the moment, you know, let's just assume it will be. I mean, we can all hope and pray that whatever, you know, is. out there in Congress and the whole thing. But the only answer, the only answer is to land on Joe Burrow like the Bengals did, or land on Peyton Manning like the Colts did in 1998. So all of this conversation about Taylor Heineke and Kyle Allen and Ryan Fitzpatrick,

good God, none of that is going to answer the big picture issue of what is going to take this team and give it a bounce off rock bottom. well, they're going to have to find the quarterback, and the only way to find it is to work hard, Herney and Mayhew and Rivera and Pollyan and all their scouts and really, really be working on this draft because it's very possible you're going to end up with the top five or top 10 pick and just take big swings.

You know, they took a solid swing at Matt Stafford. They needed to take a bigger swing at Matt Stafford. Who knows who will be available in the offseason if they don't like any of the rookies? Like if all of their homework comes back and is like, no, we can't take a first rounder on any of these guys. We don't believe in any of them. Well, then you better make a big move for Matt Ryan or Derek Carr or Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson, which none of those really seem like possibilities for here.

But you've got to find that answer. Without that answer, we are, we're rowing upstream. I mean, it's going to be that way forever. Basically, a good season is nine and nine without that. Well, let's get to 17. Nine and eight. Nine and eight. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. You know, the 17 games season is really throwing you. It really throws me off every time. All right. I'll finish up with a couple of things, including the Wizards' loss last night against the Nets, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast is brought you by My Bookie. You want to lock?

In sports betting, Tommy, you know, these are part of a lot of the promotions that sports books are doing. This is a good one, though. My bookie basically offering you an absolute lock on Friday night. It's an NBA game between Dallas and Denver, and as long as one of the two teams scores, and there's never been a scoreless game in the NBA, you win. All right? So do you really think Donchich or Yokic are going scoreless Friday night? go to mybooky.ag or mybooky.com.

Use my promo code Kevin D.C. to take advantage of this lock bet. They've also got a totally risk-free wager on UFC 267 on Saturday. So you can find that as well. And all of the prop bets, I was actually looking through a lot of the prop bet opportunities on championship favorites, et cetera, in the NFL, looking at updated odds this morning. Very interestingly, this is actually blows me away at this point. With the Chiefs totally struggling and three and four, they are still the second pick in the AFC to win the AFC championship

behind the Buffalo Bills. Cincinnati right now, Tommy, is the number one seed if the season ended today in the AFC. They're plus 1,500 to win the AFC championship. The Chiefs are plus 550. The bills are the favorite. at plus 250. Then you get the chiefs at plus 550, the Ravens at plus 550, and the Titans at plus 700. No mention really until you get further down to the Bengals or the Raiders in that

conversation. I think it's interesting. I think both, I think the league is interesting right now. Plenty of opportunities, mybooky.ag or my bookie.com. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. if there's something already in the promo code when you sign up, erase it, and write Kevin D.C. So I did want to mention two quick things before we get to the Wizards game, because I know you watch the game and I watch the game as well. Joe Flacco is a New York jet again via trade. You know, you know that I was... Talk about a bad organization. Well, Zach Wilson's injured.

He's out two to four weeks with a sprain knee. I know that, but you go into the season without a good backup quarterback when you've got Zach Wilson as your starter. Well, they were going young. They were going to let them sink or swim. They're going to give them all the snaps. The backup who played the other day, Mike White, was a fifth round pick in 2018 out of Western Kentucky. This was his first season on an NFL roster. He'd been on some practice squads, I believe.

I just mentioned Joe Flacco, because whenever I have a chance, to mention Joe Flacco. I love to mention Joe Flacco because I was a big Joe Flacco fan. And I know a lot of Baltimore people who are big Joe Flacco fans too. Joe Flacco is now the backup in New York, or maybe he'll start in front of Mike White. I have no idea. By the way, they also had an opportunity to promote Josh Johnson from the practice squad, but they didn't do that. They had old Josh Johnson on the practice squad. But anyway, Flacco, they didn't. just pick him up because he was out there. He was on the Philadelphia Eagles roster. It cost the Jets a sixth round conditional pick to acquire Flacco.

Flacco at this point, obviously, is not going to lead you to anything significant. He's 36 years old and really hasn't played meaningful. He played a little bit last year for the Jets. I just want to just on Flacco, one of my all-time clutch performers in big games at the quarterback position. You know, I'm not going to put him ahead of stable or a strawback or, you know, any of the all-time Brady or Manning or any of those. But underrated clutch quarterback of all-time list, Joe Flacco is on it somewhere and like the top five to ten.

He owns as many road playoff wins as a starting quarterback as any quarterback in history. He never was an elite quarterback. Never was an elite quarterback. never have suggested that he was an elite quarterback. But Joe Flacco and some of the Ravens' biggest games of all time, especially against the New England Patriots in Foxborough, in the postseason, or against the Steelers in a game they had to have, was always lights out.

Lights out clutch, always there to give you a chance to win and won a shitload of those games. Not an elite quarterback. Okay. Not even close. But one of the all-time underrated clutch quarterbacks, Joe Flacco. You get that out of your system? I did.

Yeah. Okay. Good. That's nice. Did you want to add to it? Or did you want to just cut you up? Look, I figured I'd just cut you off because I figure everybody's saying, oh, my God, Joe Flacco again.

Joe Flacco again. Old Joe Flacco, hon. We got ourselves a show. shot with Flacko. And you know, the funny thing is you talk to Ravens people and they hated him, but they also loved him because they knew if it were a big spot, they were going to have a chance with old number seven out there, old number five out there slinging it. Number five, I think he was in Baltimore. Yeah. Okay. What did you want to tell me about the Wizards game? I watched the game too. What do you got? Oh, I watched the Wizards last night for as long as I could

without until I got physically ill, then I changed the channel, you know, to something else. I mean, I expected some semblance of energy of professional basketball play. I mean, they were terrible. They were a joke. I mean, it's not even good playground basketball. And look, I mean, Bradley Bill is an idiot. I mean, he's an idiot for a number of reasons, not the least of which is. After this game last night, he says, this is what we needed.

It kind of kicked us in the ass. I read that, yeah. I mean, what's he talking about? This is what they needed. They were 2 and 0. This is not like, like, you know, that they were like, what are these elite teams that took a night off? My God.

I mean, they've been kicked in the ass for decades. Yeah. And it doesn't do any good. So true. So, but the bigger thing I kept thinking about is your profess love for the NBA. Now, you know basketball probably better than anybody I know as well as I know you, anybody who I'm close to. And you really love basketball.

And I love basketball. You play. And I know a little. Okay, besides that. And I know a little bit about it. Yes, you do. Not to the level that you do. But I know a little bit about it.

I know, you know, I don't understand how you can sit there and watch this product and not be sickened by it. I mean, if you know how good basketball can be when it's good, when it's played the right way, when it's almost like an art form how could you watch this and say I mean it's like you're almost you're almost hanging on to something wishing it was good because you grew up loving it

you've loved it your whole life and the notion that it may not be good anymore is too hard to face well are you done yes um Kevin Durant in game five of the Eastern Conference semifinals last year,

when he had 49 points. Then, you know, in the seventh and deciding game against Brooklyn, against Milwaukee a game that went to overtime, scored another 48 points in that game. That's what I love. I love NBA basketball that matters. It doesn't matter in October. I totally agree with you.

It's a hard watch for me this time of year. I don't enjoy sitting down. And I don't. I don't sit there and watch the NBA every night in October, November, December, January, February, March, April. But, you know, or March. But once we get to April, I'm really into it. It is like hockey for me. Well, it's different, obviously, because I don't know anything about hockey.

And I don't care that much about hockey. But the hockey postseason product is outside. standing. By the way, the Caps won seven to five, and O'Shee had a hat trick, and Ovechkin had two more goals last night. They've been really, really good to start the season. I can't watch the NBA this time of year, Tommy, but the postseason is a completely different product. It's not a good product. It's a great product. I love the NBA playoffs. I love the NBA playoffs. I can't stand the NBA right now. I don't like regular season NBA. I don't pay attention to it that.

I pay attention, but I'm not watching it other than the Wizards games, which by the way, and you know this, I'll be invested for a while until there's no reason to be invested anymore. Those teams a few years ago, when John and Brad were young with, you know, Neyne and Areza and Gortot and Randy Whitman coaching them, I enjoyed watching their regular season games. I saw a team on the rise. I saw a team that was for the next five to ten years going to be a perennial playoff team and maybe if they added a third piece, be a legitimate contender. And you know how much I want that to happen.

And, you know, they got close with Brooks in that seventh game against the Celtics and that series. But, you know, even with my favorite team, the Wizards, there's going to come a point, and I'm pulling up the schedule right now, where, you know, in January, they're 10 games under 500. and it's not like I'm going to be sit there watching. I'm not going to sit there watch, you know, start to finish. I might pay attention to the highlights. I may, you know, tune in if I'm around, but I'm not planning around it. I mean, I didn't plan around last night's game.

I DVRed it. We went out to dinner last night. I had a great dinner, by the way, at Black Salt. Great seafood restaurant in a MacArthur Boulevard in Upper Northwest. Anyway, I did want to share this with you, though. Buckhants last night. texted me before the game. And he said to me, he goes,

all right, hold on. Damn, the whiz are getting six points. That's a pretty good bet. And I just texted him back. And by the way, I've not had a good smell test. Everybody understands that this year. I texted him back and I said, they're going to get blown out tonight.

I go, I hope I'm wrong, but this has blowout written all over. over it. And he said, oh, I'd be super surprised. Nets are tough. Beals back. They've always played the nets tough. And then 30 minutes into the game, I get a text. Who are you? Creskin? Because they were down by like 25. It's just, you watch the NBA enough. You know that there are certain nights. And it wasn't like a back-to-back situation. But they started off well. They're playing a real team. Toronto is a bad team. And I told you that the defense in the opening night don't get hung up on like all the sudden they're playing defense. It was if you watched it, Toronto was terrible and they missed a lot of

open shots. Indiana put up 73 in the first half the next night. And Brooklyn could have named their total last night if they really were pushed. The thing that frustrated me about last night is something you said. I saw a team that came out flat. Why? Yes. I mean, you shouldn't be at 2-0? Like you're feeling it? Like you guys are really something else at 2-0? And you're getting your star player back? Getting your star player back? What's really frustrating about their star player? This is what frustrates me more about their team. I think Bradley Beale's an elite score. I think he's worked so hard to improve so many aspects of his game. And it's been impressive

to watch over the last few years. I mean, they had almost a legitimate scoring champion, you know, the last two years. Bradley Beale can really score. He can really shoot it. He can really score. Bradley Beale has never fixed the thing that drives me crazy in watching him. I use this word all the time to describe him, but he plays way too casually too much of the time.

He had five turnovers last night. Four of them were totally unnecessary and unforced. This should be the thing. one of the things, that end is defense because he's capable of being a decent defender. He is capable of that, but he's not a consistent defender because sometimes he doesn't look really that interested. And by the way, to defend him a little bit with this criticism, he's been the object of other teams. Last year, he was doubled all the time. And he's also handling the ball a lot. So you're going to get worn out. It's going to be hard to defend on the

other end because you're so worn out offensively. And we're going to be hard to defend on the other end, when you handle the ball as much as he handles it, you're going to end up with turnovers. And last year was just a turnover machine between him and Westbrook in the back court. But last night, I'm just watching early in that game. He basically dribbles the ball right to the other team on one possession and throws a pass that was literally as bad a pass and as lazy and casual a pass as you could imagine. He does this all the time. And, you know, the funny thing is, is in the playoffs when they've had playoff games,

and he really, you see him, because I think he's a competitor. He, the dribble gets lower, it gets harder, he protects the ball more. But during these regular season games, he can be incredible to watch as a score, and he can be so frustrating to watch as a ball handler, passer, et cetera. Drives me nuts. He had five turnovers. He's got nine and two games, and of those nine, I'd have to go back and look at all of them, six of the nine minimum were totally unforced turnovers.

By the way, he is shooting so poorly to start the year. He was three of 13 last night from behind the arc. He's four of 19 and two games from behind the arc. I think, look, he can shoot it. I'm not worried about his points. He's going to figure out a way to score. But if he's ever going to be a truly elite player, he's got to stop giving away three possessions a game.

You just have to stop that. and you can. Anyway. Anyway, I mean, I just don't understand when you know how basketball can be played so great. I mean, the game last night at one point, the court might have well been 10 feet on either side of the half court line. You know? Yeah, you can't cross here. Yeah, you can't cross here.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's not the most three points. I can't, I can't stomach that. stomach it. You know who really is great, though? I mean, he's an all-time great. I don't care what you think of him personally in his sensitivity and Twitter, you know, fake Twitter accounts, etc. Kevin Durant's such a great player. He's just... He is one of the all-time greats. He's one of the all-time greats. And I think last year in the postseason when he didn't have a healthy Hardin and he didn't have Kyrie, I think it may have been his greatest moment losing that series to Milwaukee in so many

ways. The games he had in that series were unbelievable. You're right. You're right. By the way, about Hardin, you know, far be it from me to say anything, but he looks like me in the next Jersey. Yeah, he looks a little bit chunky. Yeah, a little bit. And boy, he was jacking him up last night. And, you know, no surprise. I'll tell you who does not mind jacking it up is our boy, Coosma. So far, the one thing I've learned about Kyle Cusma, at least on this team, because, you know, he's overshadowed by LeBron and, you know, AD and all the, you know, whatever. He is absolutely in belief. He's got great belief in himself as a shooter.

So, you know, it doesn't matter how bad some of the misses are. They're going up. Good for him. By the way, the most surprising thing for me with Kuzma, I know you don't care about this. Why am I talking about this? He's averaging 13 rebounds a game. I know. That's not.

Those are, those are Russell Westbro's rebounds. He's got them now. I guess. I guess. He's playing a different position, kind of. But yeah, I mean, this guy was never a high volume rebounder. I mean, you know, he's a big duty. He should be a good rebounder.

He had 13 rebounds last night. Now, you're going to have a lot of rebounds when a lot of shots are being missed. And last night, and in the opener against Toronto, you had a lot of that. Not against Indiana. There weren't a lot of shots missed in that game. All right. Are we done? We're done, boss. All right. I am back tomorrow.

I will have a guest on the show, but it's right now still being, still TBD on who it will be. Tommy and I will be back together on Thursday. All right. See you. I'll talk to you later. All right.