The Kevin Sheehan Show - Howell Sharp Again

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Kevin recaps Washington's 29-28 preseason win over Baltimore last night. Lots on Sam Howell's performance. Howard Gutman jumped on with a big personal announcement along with an update on how Washington's new ownership group is adapting. Chris Simms/Pro Football Talk had a strong opinion on Howell....Kevin had that too. Go to https://www.mybookie.ag/sportsbook/ for your gambling needs. Use code KEVINDC when you sign up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Mike McDonald's second your defensive coordinator. Quick shot to him. Pass is caught for first down.

Turner again. I thought that was the most impressive Sam Hal play of the night. On a night, by the way, where there were a lot of impressive Sam Hal plays. But that third and 15 throw on their opening drive offensively after he took the second down sack, and he puts it right in there to Cole Turner for 16 yards, that shows a lot. It shows that he's got the ability to make that throw, the guts to make it, the resilience to kind of bounce back after the play before it. But Sam Howell had a good night, much more on him and the game coming up. up in a moment. I do want to tell you that the show today is brought to you by my good friends at

My Booky, just to let you know. My bookie has not changed any of Washington's odds for the upcoming season based on them beating the Ravens last night, 29 to 28, to end the Ravens 24 game preseason win streak. That was nice that they were able to do that. But it did not change the minds of odds makers across the globe. My bookie still has Washington at six and a half for their over under number, minus 121 on the under, even money on the over. There's still, there's still six point favorites to beat the Cardinals in the opener with the total at 39 and a half. Football season's back people. This coming weekend, real college football. My bookies got it all. To get started, go to mybooky.ag now, register for an account for free.

When you're ready to make your first deposit, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to grab a welcome bonus on the house. That's Kevin D.C. to claim your deposit bonus, and for a limited time, a free chip to use in the MyBooky online casino. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere, only with My Booky. One guest on the show today, Howard Gutman is going to join us. He's got a big announcement to make. By the way, I don't even know what it is. He just told me he's got a big announcement that he'd like to make on the podcast today.

But we'll talk to Howard about how Mitch Rails, who he is an advisor to and a friend of, how Mitch Rails and Josh Harris and the ownership group are doing. But before we get to Howard to end the show, a lot to talk about in regards to last night's game. Yeah, it was a win. Sam Cosmy turns out he was right. If you miss Sam Cosmy yesterday, he thought the idea of this preseason streak was stupid, but he did predict that they would end the streak. And they did on Joey Sly's 49-yard field goal with 10 seconds left in the game to win at 29-28.

before what was a pretty large preseason crowd and I think a very enthusiastic crowd at FedEx Field. I had several people text me to say the crowd was better than many regular season games in recent years. The celebration by the team at the end of the game when they got that interception to seal it was genuine. You know, it's a bit strange to see that kind of celebration in a preseason game, but I think last night's game had a bit more to it. You know, it had the Ravens streak. The game itself was back and forth and very high scoring for a preseason game. The fact that Sam Howe played well gave the game more buzz.

It was the first game preseason or regular season for the new ownership group. It was the first time in 24 years that a different person and a different group other than Dan Snyder, Tanya Snyder, and the group of investors that they had, it's, it was still kind of amazing, right? Josh Harris is in the booth talking to Joe Buck and Troy Aitman, and it's not owned by Dan Snyder anymore. Amazing. But an exciting night for Josh Harris. Yeah, I'll talk maybe briefly about that appearance in the booth with Troy Aitman and Joe Buck. But it was a big night for them. Joe Gibbs was there.

When's the last time Coach Joe was at a preseason game? All of that just kind of came together to create a night even though it was August 21st and it was the second preseason game. It was a night that felt good. You know, it felt good for the players on the team. the coaches on the team, the people who work for the organization, the front office, the ownership, the fans that were there, the many more that were watching on television. It was a very good night business-wise for Washington's football franchise.

Even though nothing counts in the standings, you know, the bottom line is last night was a moment. and it was a moment that felt good. That can't hurt the effort to resuscitate what once was a pretty large and passionate fan base. It felt last night like we were clear of the cloud that's been hovering over this franchise for 24 years. You know, Dan Snyder didn't own the team last night for the first time in 24 years.

a game at FedEx Field, with a game at FedEx Field being played. It was a good night. It was a good night for, you know, August 21st. It was about as good as it could be. From a football standpoint, look, the conversation more than any other was about Sam Howell. I did have people suggesting that they were very concerned about the defense. I did remind them that the defense didn't play last night. The starting defensive front, John Allen, Duran Payne, Montez, Sweat, Chase Young, and the starting, or most of the starting defensive secondary, Derek Forrest, Cameron Curl, Kendall Fuller, Benjamin St. Juice, they didn't play in the game. They barely played last week. I'm not concerned about the defense yet, but we'll get to that coming up here in more detail.

But really, I think the conversation that was had more than any other was about Sam Howe. The Sam Howe preseason, the Sam Hal practices in Baltimore, the Sam Hal training camp practices in Ashburn have all gone by all accounts pretty well. So that's where I will start with Sam Howe's performance, because I think that that's what people are talking about more than anything else. And then I'll get to my game take where I give you the things I liked, didn't like, and a few other observations from the game last night. I'm going to start off by just mentioning this. And I know that I have said this before about other topics. More than one thing can be true at the same time. And last night, as it relates to Sam Howe's performance, two things were true. The first being that Sam Howe played well.

He played very well, actually. And he really looked the part for the second consecutive week in preseason games. He really did. He played well, and that is very encouraging. It certainly beats the alternative. Sam Howe in the two games that were able to watch, you know, not at practice every day, not at the Baltimore joint practices, Sam Howe has learned. looked the part, the part being an NFL quarterback.

What's also true about last night, and I feel like I have to put kind of a warning out there to some of you to cover your ears because some of you find it very difficult to accept the fact that two things can be true simultaneously. And when I state certain facts that don't really support your, you know, everything is great view, it really tends to upset some of you. But what was also true about last night's game is that Washington's offense included primarily its starters, while Baltimore's defense didn't include any. and that is just a fact. And by the way, it is relevant in the conversation about Sam Howell last night.

It doesn't mean you ignore what Washington's first team offense did, what Sam Howell did last night. It's just true that Washington did not play against Baltimore's best defensive players last night. They didn't play against Baltimore's best offensive players last night. They didn't play against Baltimore's best offensive players. players either. It's not me trying to poop on the parade when it comes to Sam Hal or anybody else on offense. It's just something that should be taken into consideration before you decide to put next month's rent money on Sam Howell to win the NFL MVP in 2023. You know, in two preseason games now against the Browns and the Ravens, Washington's office. Washington's office

really hasn't played a starting defense yet. Cleveland was missing several of its defensive starters, and Baltimore sat all of their starters. Now, there were two to three players that are vying for potential starting time, but are considered more backups. And then Washington actually last night faced in the first half a lot of Baltimore's third teamers. You know, Baltimore's players that are hanging on by a thread or just fighting to make a roster spot. But despite that factual statement, yes, the two games Sam Howes played in the preseason have been very encouraging and maybe more than encouraging, although it's still probably too early to even say this.

but I was thinking last night in watching him that I am, I'm reassured more than even encouraged because what he's clearly shown in the two preseason games, and apparently what he is shown throughout training camp and in those two joint practices against Baltimore, is that he belongs, that he doesn't look out of place. you know, this guy's played a lot of football, and he's been the guy on most of his football teams, including his college team in Chapel Hill. And he carries himself that way. He doesn't carry himself in a cocky way, in a chesty way, but he certainly carries himself as somebody who believes that he deserves to be out there. Again, too early to say for sure, because it's two preseason

games against much lesser competition than they'll face when the regular season begins, even against Arizona, a team predicted to be the worst team in the league. But the three quarters, the quarter last week or just over a quarter, and the first half last night, you know, he has looked the part. He doesn't look overwhelmed. And that is reassuring. I feel that we're seeing a guy that I don't know what his ceiling is. I don't know how high that goes.

I don't know how anybody could know that. But I think we are watching and hearing from those that are playing with him and coaching him that the floor is kind of high, that he's not going to be a disaster. And that part's reassuring because I'll tell you what I am confident. and in more than anything else. And this to me isn't reassuring. This is just, we've seen it for a couple of years coming, and it is for real. And that is they've got outstanding receivers, outstanding playmakers.

Now, the Terry McLaren injury was another big takeaway from last night. And there is some news on that as we are recording the podcast. And the news is that it's turf toe. and there's an MRI scheduled today. Ian Rappaport had that. David Chow, that leading, you know, former NFL team doctor with the Chargers, who's now kind of a leading medical expert when it comes to sports, and he's got like 250,000 Twitter followers, and, you know, he does work for various, you know, football and sports outlets.

He is a little bit more concerned about the turf toe. and the seriousness of it, and if it is serious, how long Terry could be limited for. He seems to think that Terry, you know, that at the very minimum, Terry could be impacted for the opener in 19 days. But, man, Jahan Dotson and Terry McLorn. I just kept thinking watching last night with a quarterback that has an arm that can threaten the entire field, that can make a defense defend the entire field, it's going to be really hard to cover Terry and Jehan consistently. I am looking forward to seeing what this offense can do in a real game.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Sam Hal can do in a real game. And we won't begin to see that until they play Arizona on September 10th because there is no way that the starters are playing Saturday night against Cincinnati. You know, if there had been a week in between games, maybe, but I doubt it. You know, they didn't do it last year. Most teams aren't doing it, although the Jets are playing Aaron Rogers against the Giants on Saturday night. But we're not going to see any of the starters on Saturday against Cincinnati, especially considering the short turnaround time because they played last night.

All right. Let's get to my game take right after these words from a few of our sponsors. 17 seconds left, no timeouts for the commanders. Good protection again. Touchdown, Diami Brown. That touchdown pass from Sam Howe to Diami Brown. If you saw the replay of it from behind Sam Howell, when it left his hand, it seemed like there was no chance of a completion. But Diami Brown and Sam Howe have chemistry.

They've got that connection from their Carolina days. and Diami Brown knew if he got himself positioned in front of the defender, it would be a catchable ball, and it was. That was an impressive drive in the game. That was a 10-play 79-yard drive in a minute 22 to give Washington a 17-14 lead at the end of the first half. It was a true two-minute drive. They overcame a second and 17, a first and 15. a third in 10, and then Sam Hal completed the touchdown pass on second and 10 at the Baltimore 11-yard line.

I actually think the two passes to Jahan Dotson on that drive, the first in 15 and the third and 10 to Dotson. We're super impressive because, my God, Dotson creates so much space. And again, the same is true for Dotson as it is for Sam Hal and everybody else on offense. They weren't playing Baltimore's, you know, regular season defense. But, man, Jahan Dotson is a route runner. That is for sure. All right, let's get to my game take. Pay attention.

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All right, let's get to my game take. And I'm going to start with the things that I liked from the game, and there was a lot. In fact, the first two things on the list are essentially the same first two things from a week ago. Number one is, I'm telling you, Washington, you know, a lot of you watch the league. I watch the league as much as I watch our team. Many of you don't. And that's where some of our arguments have, I think, stemmed from over the years is that there are some of you that just watch Skins games and don't watch the rest of the NFL.

And so sometimes I've had to, you know, dial some of you back on. you know, how optimistic you are about the team or certain players or where they rank. But I don't think I'm being wildly hyperbolic here. When I say that Washington's offensive skill players are really good, really good. Terry McClorn's injury is a big deal. We need him. Have to have him. Because he is a legitimate top ten-ish kind of a receiver.

I think Jehan Dodson is headed in that direction. I don't know that we've seen a better route runner here in Washington in a long time. Maybe Pierre as a route runner. Jordan Reed as a route runner and as a guy that could just shake any defender was pretty damn good. But my God, is Jehan Dodson talented? And he's got great catch radius. He is very good after the catch. He has big time speed.

I just think the combination of those two alone makes Washington's skill position group top half of the league, but it approaches top 10 when you throw in Curtis Samuel and Diommy Brown and Brian Robinson, Jr., and Antonio Gibson, and Cole Turner, who's impressive as hell. Big target. I still have hopes for Logan Thomas. I'm just a little bit concerned about the injury, but I think Logan Thomas, when he was healthy, before the injury in 2021 was really a nice tight-end target as a pass catcher. But their receivers, their backs, their playmakers, it's a really, really solid group.

I mean, give them credit. The Jahan Dotson draft choice, I liked it at the time. I liked the trade at the time. Look, I think Alave is going to be great too. I'm just a big Dotson fan. I really like Terry. We haven't even seen the gadget guys like Sam. You'll be a big part of it because that'll come with the game planning when we get to the regular season.

Diami Brown clearly has some chemistry with the starting quarterback, Sam Hal. I just think Washington's playmakers are in the, I think, the top third of the league. When's the last time we could say that? 2016, Pierre, Deshawn, Crowder, obviously Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson. They just didn't have any backs other than Thompson. So that once again stood out and again acknowledged that they were playing against backup players on defense for Baltimore. Next up on the list of things that I liked for the second straight week, Sam Howell.

There was just a lot of positive there last night from Sam Howell. there really was a lot of positive. First of all, I love the overall offensive approach. We're going to throw the football a lot tonight in the second preseason game. I think they had 29 dropbacks in the first half. He had 25 throws. There were a couple of sacks, a couple of scrambles, a couple of penalties. But in terms of called plays, I think it was 29 dropback passes. That, to me, makes a lot of sense. and I give Eric Bianami a lot of credit more on him coming up in a moment. But Sam Hal was like he was last week. He was decisive.

He was accurate. The ball got out quickly most of the time. I think he throws a really good deep ball. I think he throws with really good touch. I think he was more decisive hitting the checkdown. He completed 19 of 25. I mean, he was 19 of 25. And that's the kind of,

you know, offensive performance in the preseason by starting quarterbacks that you've seen from some of the good teams in recent years. 19 and 25, a buck 88, two touchdowns. He took two sacks, more on that in a moment. I loved the big time throws to Dotson, as I mentioned on that final drive of the first half. The Cole Turner, third and 15, bouncing back from the sack that he took on the previous play is still my favorite play of the night. He plays with a level of poise that I think is just very apparent. Like he does not look rattled. Somebody, by the way, when I said that on radio this morning, said,

remember Sheehan, you said the same thing about Dwayne Haskins. You're right, I did. I remember the preseason in 2019 when he played against the Bengals. I remember the regular season game against some of those teams like Detroit and some of the others. Dwayne was never afraid. Dwayne was always confident. But obviously there were big differences maturity-wise between Dwayne and, you know, we think Sam Howl. There's a lot of other things going on. But Sam Howe does play with a level of poise and calm that, and at the same time, he is elusive and he's able to play off schedule.

There's a lot to like about his skill set. I mean, we've talked about that since they drafted him. And we've certainly talked a lot about that over the last, you know, eight months or whatever it's been, seven months. The skill set is not where the questions are. The decision making is where the questions come in. And even though I really thought he progressed and I thought he made a lot of good decisions, the two sacks were on him, well, at least according to him. And the first sack really is about holding on to the ball too long.

You know, I said this morning that there's a level of, you know, kind of stubbornness where he thinks he can make plays. And this got him into trouble in that final year at Carolina, is that he took a lot of sacks. He took 300 yards plus worth of sacks that you. They didn't have the same team that he had the year before. We all understand that. But, you know, he's trying to make a play instead of hitting the checkdown or hitting

that outlet that exists there. He's going to have to learn how to do that. You know, Ben this morning on radio standing said, you know, some of those sacks are Carson Wentz kinds of sacks. Like he believes he can make a play, but you can't. Not with an offensive line that may struggle this year in past protection, perhaps. And Baltimore came out. after him a lot. But still, that second sack, by the way, to me, he took accountability for it,

which tells me that he either had responsibility for the free rusher or he was supposed to adjust the offensive line pre-snap. So that's the stuff, you know, that's the stuff that if you've got, the people that have concerns, those are the concerns. Skill level is not a concern. He can make every throw. He can make every throw with accuracy, with touch, with anticipation. He's mobile. Be nice if he were 6'4 instead of 6'4. That's what he looks like to me, even though he's listed 6'1. But Sam Howell on the list of things that I liked. Eric B. Enemy's offense, and specifically, first of all, his approach to the game last night, I liked that the starters on offense played for a half. I don't need to see the defense.

starters. The defense was good last year. The offense is brand new with a brand new quarterback and a brand new offensive coordinator. I want to see the repetitions on a smooth operation. And I think for the most part, it was pretty smooth last night. There were a couple of pre-snap receivers in wrong spots. I don't know. I can't tell you whose fault that is. There were a couple of times when the play clock got down towards the end. But no, for the most part, it was for a second straight week a smooth operation. I loved that they threw the football a lot in the first half. And what you're starting to see, or what I've seen in these two games, is their basic, you know, West Coast pass offense concepts. All right, shorter routes, timing, ball out quickly

to receivers in space with great spacing. Terry McClearn made. the comment last week. I think I played it on the show where he talked about timing and spacing. Those are West Coast, you know, that's West Coast description. You know, spacing is so important in almost any sport, okay? Basketball for you, basketball people out there, you know how important it is for offensive players to be spaced out so that the defense has to cover more of the ground. applies to football. Now, in basketball, if you're setting a ball screen, you do have two players that are close to each other, understood. But spacing to make the defense cover more ground, we haven't seen that, you know, in recent years. I was not a Scott Turner hater, like many of you,

because to me, eight quarterbacks, none of whom were any good in three years, it's hard to really evaluate Scott Turner. But I was critical of a couple of things. I didn't like that he didn't use his quarterback, Taylor Heineke, in the run game more often than not. And I didn't like how often receivers seem to be too close to one another. Well, what you've seen in these first two games is that spacing and timing that Terry McCorn was talking about.

It's so crucial. And they've got to get into an understanding of that. so that Sam Howell can throw in timing to a receiver who's got space, enough space away from other offensive players, and he can turn after catching it with a chance to make a play with the ball in his hands shortly after the ball is snapped. I thought that they're spacing offensively for a second straight week was noticeable. Again, we'll see what happens in the regular season.

when defensive starters are on the field where defenses are game planning for it. But the other thing about it is their playmaking group in space, look out. I thought the past protection last night was better than it was last week. I am more concerned about the tackles than I am the guards. I think Sam Cosmi is an absolute winner. I think this guy can play. I think Nick Gates is an absolute, absolute, monster competitor. Sadieh Charles played a lot last night, a lot more than Chris Paul did.

The tackles are the concern. Now, you had Lucas in there for Leno Jr., but Wiley, Leno Jr., Lucas, that's where I would focus on if the offensive line ends up having trouble, I bet it's more on the outside than the interior. And last year we saw it everywhere, but we really saw it on the interior. By the way, just one quick note, I think Ricky Stromberg has been impressive, and I had no idea what the team thought of him, and I asked Ben that on radio this morning,

and then Ben and I talked afterwards. They apparently are very impressed with Ricky Stromberg. Ricky Stromberg, remember, played for a head coach at Arkansas, who was an offensive line coach before, and he's athletic. They picked him in the third round. I wonder whether or not if they got into Toronto, with tackles. If they'd move Cosmy back to tackle, move Gates to guard, and move Stromberg in its

center. This is cart before horse. They haven't played a regular season game. But I have been impressed with Ricky Stromberg. I thought Emmanuel Forbes that third and one tackle was outstanding. We talked about it when they drafted him. If you think his slight frame means that he's not a good tackler, he's not only a good tackler. He is very willing. He's fearless. Joey Sly. He hasn't missed a kick in the preseason. Kaz Allen's 20-yard punt return was on my good list. By the way, I don't know if you've noticed this in any of the preseason action that you've watched. But teams aren't employing, I don't think, the strategy that they'll use in the regular season with the new kickoff rule, which is you can fair catch a kickoff in the field of play and the ball comes immediately out to the 25-yard line.

Like they've been using Joey Slide just to kick it out of the end zone. But I think when we get to the regular season, they're going to try to make these upbacks, considering the ball is going to come out to the 25 on a fair catch, regardless of where it's kicked to, the end zone, out of the end zone, or in the field of play. Why not kick it into the field of play to guys that aren't used to catching it? some of those up guys that are standing at the 15 or the 20-yard line and make them field it. You know, squib it down there to the 15-yard line. Make them field it.

We haven't seen that. I think we're going to see that in a regular season. All right. The list of things that I didn't love from last night, I'm not about to sound the alarm bell on the defense because they're giving up lots of yards. You know, last night in the game, Washington ran 81 offensive plays. Pretty amazing for a preseason game. And Baltimore only ran 49. But the Ravens generated 334 yards on 49 snaps.

That's pretty impressive. You know, Washington had 81 snaps and generated 426 yards. You had 760 yards of offense, 57 points. It's 49 first downs. That's unusual for the preseason. But again, none of the defensive starters with the exception of Jamon Davis and Cody Barton played. Washington's probably going to have a lot of downs this year on defense where only one of those two linebackers is in the game. Emmanuel Forbes played because he's a rookie, okay?

But no Fuller, no St. Juice. No curl, no forest. none of the starting defensive lineman played. I can't, I can't be concerned about a defense that is barely played in the preseason. I can't. Sorry. And I won't. If this happens in the preseason and they're giving up seven yards per play, I'll sound the alarm bell.

But I'm pretty confident that this defense has a chance to be, once again, a really good defensive team. hopefully with more takeaways this year. Specifically on defense, by the way, I thought Wild Goose struggled a little bit. He was one of those players that got picked on a little bit early. But remember, you know, those players also were not facing starters for Baltimore. Baltimore didn't have many starters play at all. I think it was like three or four total in the game.

Jacoby Brissette, man, a couple of you. How's your boy Brissette? My boy. Listen carefully. I like Jacoby Brissette. I do. I like him as a high-end NFL backup and a low-end starter. All right? Chacoby Brissette is not my boy, although I like his demeanor and his professionalism in his career. And I liked him going back to NC State. But to suggest that Brissette is going to lose the backup job to Jake Fromm, Are you kidding me? Do you really think that because he threw an interception? Bad ball last night. He did not play well. He's on my list of things that I didn't like from last night. He didn't play well at all.

But do you really think Jake Fromm's going to be the backup quarterback? They paid him $8 million. All right, one year, $8 million. Now, I did hear that he was not very happy about Sam Hal being named starting quarterback. That surprises me a little bit because I can't imagine. that he thought like this was going to be a real competition. I guess there were opportunities for Brissette to maybe have a better chance. I don't know how many of those opportunities existed.

He was not good last night. He wasn't. He was very sharp in that opening drive last week against Cleveland. But no, Jacoby Brissette is a very good backup. I'm much more interested in what he's done in real games than what he's done in the preseason in two games here. Chris Rodriguez's fumble lands him on the things that I didn't like list. He's still averaged over six yards per carry. He's averaging over seven yards per carry in the two games.

I think he's the third back. And of course, the injury to Terry and then the concussion, by the way, to Diommy Brown also on the list of things I didn't like. A couple of other quick observations. Jared Patterson's just a player that I've liked since he got here. that catch and touchdown run with the face mask while he's being face masked was really impressive. I just don't think he's going to be on the final roster. Jonathan Williams, I think, is another guy they like.

I think they've got good backs and good options, but I think it's going to be Rodriguez even with the fumble. I mean, Rodriguez is big. All three of their backs, right? You know, Gibson, Robinson Jr., and Rodriguez, all big dudes. Jared Patterson is not a big dude. dude. But man, he is, I like him. I've always liked him. I also thought that Andre Jones Jr., you know, he had that unblocked tackle for loss. But he's just an intriguing player because of his body build and I think his confidence level, as Doc described to us last

week. I thought it was interesting that Alex Arma caught that two-point conversion and then got stopped by number 17. Great tackle when it was 2826. I just wonder what his role is. Kansas City used that guy Bolton. They used Blake Bell. They didn't have a Kyle use check. They didn't have a real fullback all of the time. I don't know what the role of the fullback is in this offense until we see it. I just wonder if he's a guy they just put on the practice squad and then understand that he probably won't get picked off of it. One last observation. I think it's one last observation. The crowd, it was, it was great.

It was a good night, like I said at the beginning. And Josh Harris and his ownership group, they absolutely deserve to kind of relish in the moment of owning an NFL team. They paid $6 billion for it. Now, many of you, you know, had a ball with the interview that Josh Harris did with Troy Eichmann and with Joe Buck. Look, I think he had a fun night last night. I think he comes off personally in the short snippets of press conference here, interview there, as genuine, even if he's not the greatest of communicators.

And that awkward handshake, I think that was partly on Joe Buck. I mean, Joe Buck, look, he was doing a lot. He was calling a game. He's trying to conduct an interview while. watching and calling the game, but I don't know. It just wasn't that big of a deal to me. I know that the meme, the video of that awkward handshake, if you missed it, all you got to do is Google it.

Josh Harris, you know, Joe Buck was moving his hands around, and Josh Harris thought it was an extension of a hand for a handshake. And so he went to shake his hand, but Joe Buck didn't return the favor. Any of us could have been in that position. Hey, he's not Dan. That's all that matters. Going back six, seven, eight months, what have I said? This isn't really about Josh Harris or Mitchell Rails or Magic Johnson or Markine for right now.

This is about it's not Dan. It's still about it's not Dan. They got a long honeymoon period for sure. All right. Howard Gutman next. And then at the very end of the show, I'm going to play for you what Chris Sims says. said about Sam Howell last night. We'll get to Howard next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. Let's finish up the show with my good friend Howard Gutman. Of course,

longtime prominent D.C. attorney, the ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years. Good friends with Mitchell Rails, one of the significant new owners of the Washington football franchise. He was at practice the other day. He told me he was heading out to practice the other day. He was at the game last night, but he's also got some news to share with us. And so I think we should start there. You can follow, of course, Howard on Twitter at the Howard Gutman. And he's got a radio show on WRVA Radio in Richmond on Saturdays called As I See it. It also is available via the Odyssey app. But tell everybody what you just told me before we started to record the show, what the big news is.

So, Kevin, although I've done political talk show for three years, the last time I did a sports was 1977. when I was broadcasting for the Columbia Lions basketball team, and they played the undefeated Indiana Hoosiers, the team that went undefeated for the year at the holiday festival, and I was part of the broadcast team. But I figure 40-something years is plenty of time to wait. So when the commander's games are now broadcast in Virginia on the largest affiliate, sometimes they will be on 9-10 the fan, WR&L, and sometimes in WRVA,

the Odyssey Network there, carrying it, will do its own pregame and post-game programming. And so for the 17-game season, the post-game show on Odyssey out of Virginia will be the post-game gut check, hosted by Ambassador Howard Gutman, me, and my son, Colin Gutman. And so we will be hosting a post-game show, which I hope will be, the listeners will, when they get to their cars or they're done watching, We'll put on their Odyssey app and turn to either 910 The Fan or WRVA and catch our postgame show because I am hoping it will be the most interesting postgame show and I can give you some ideas of what we have in mind. Well, first of all, I didn't know that you had any sports broadcasting experience

other than appearing on the Kevin Sheehan's show podcast and radio show. But I'm wondering in 1977, you know, in between working at Studio Films, and taking classes how you worked your way into the broadcast of Columbia versus a Bobby Knight coached Indiana team, which in 1977, correct me if I'm wrong, that would have been the defending champion Indiana Hoosiers. So this was the undefeated Indiana Hoosiers, the season they went undefeated. Seventy-Six. Scott May and Quibbuckner and Kent Benson.

And I was so at Columbia University, we had WKCR Radio. They had a weekly sports show called Jockey Shorts. And there were three hosts. We rotated hosting Jockey Shorts, and I did, Welcome to WKCR. This is Jockey Shorts, and I'm Howard Gutman. And we did a sports talk show from Manhattan a half hour. and that crew, regular people who could make all the weekend games

would cover the Columbia basketball team. I had to wait tables and be a busboy on weekends, as you know, at Steve Rbell's restaurant. But for the holiday festival, when Columbia played in the holiday festival, we had the whole team there, the whole crew there. It was going to be the most important game in Columbia history because we were playing the number one-ranked team in the country. but it got so bad.

Our guards could not get the ball across midcourt against Quinn Buckner and Scott May. Yeah, pretty good team. Tom Penders, who was then the coach of Columbia, went on to Texas and GW, but Tom Penders at the time was the coach of Columbia. We came out in the second half with 6'9, Elmer Love, bringing the ball up against 7 foot Ken Benson,

and there we were calling our center driveling the ball up because it was the only way we could get across mid-term. court. All right. So I'm going to help you out with something because you just got the year wrong, but that's fine. It was December 26, 1975. All right, this is the very famous and iconic 1976 Indiana Hoosiers, the last undefeated national championship college basketball team. You've got to go all the way back to that team. They went through the season undefeated, beating by the way, Michigan in the national championship game. But on December 26th, 1975 at Madison Square Garden, all right?

Was it in the garden or was it in the... In the garden. Yeah, in the garden. I graduate in 77. So I would have been gone from Columbia by May of 77. So my senior year would have been 76, 77. This would have been that 70, you know, the end of 75. going into 70.

Yeah, it was part of that holiday tournament, which included Manhattan and St. Johns and other teams, I'm sure. The final score was 106 to 63. That's a 43 point drubbing. But the next night, and I guess the consolation round, you guys absolutely, oh, no, no, no, I have this wrong. Hold on. I'm looking at the Indiana result. So I do have the Columbia result against Indiana correct.

But you guys, the next night after getting absolutely blown out by Indiana, you played St. Bonaventure a couple of nights later. Okay, so you didn't play. It was not, you only played one game in that tournament, and you lost Indiana, and that was it. And then you lost to St. Bonaventure in the next round. Indiana went on to beat St. John's in the final of that tournament. And that was the highlight of my sports career.

If you don't count appearances on the Kevin Sheen show to talk about the Danny or on Galdi or on Grant, you know, talk about the Danny. That was where I left it. Hold on. I have a trivia question for you. Go ahead. Because that Columbia team was coached by a guy that had a long. college basketball coaching career. Who was the coach? That was Tom Pendry. Yes, it was.

Yes, so he went on to be, you know, the coach of Texas and GW. And I knew, you know, we had the Tom Pender's show back then. So the coaches show. But, you know, but he took the drubbing as well. And that drubbing was only 43 points because by the end of the game, you know, the last, the end of the bench of Indiana got to play that game. You know, that Indiana team, because I'm just looking through their season, I mean, they just didn't even have close games. They had one game against Michigan in the regular season and one game against Kentucky early.

And that was essentially it. I'm not going to be able to do the math here quickly, but I would guess that their margin of victory was 20 plus points in that season. They were like a pro team. When they played a college team, they were like a pro team to a college team. When they played Columbia, it was an elementary school team against a pro team. Although, as we know, the Ivy League has had some really good teams at various points in time over the years. Penn, by the way, wasn't the 76 final four included Penn? Did it not?

Bobby Morris, Corky Calhoun. And I'll tell you another one, I'll probably end up divorced from this one. that team included a guard, a six-player guard named Alan Cutler. I had gone to junior high school with his sister, who I had a massive crush on. And so I was a huge fan of that Penn team going forward, and they had some real players, including Steve Bilski, who again has a local connection to Washington. I guess he was the athletic director at GW or something at one point. Yeah, I'm wrong.

That was not the Penn year. Rutgers made that final four. And I believe Eddie Jordan was on that team that went to the final four. Eddie Jordan, who ended up coaching the Wizards. That final four was Rutgers, Michigan, Indiana, UCLA, Indiana over Michigan in the final. And so when was Penn? The Penn team would have probably been 73, 74 maybe? Yeah.

look up Bobby Morris for Corky Calhoun or Alan Cutler, who I've just disclosed now that I'm 50 years later, I had a crush on a six three of high school. 79. Yeah, 79 was the year that Penn was in the final four. And I'm pretty sure that was the year that they had, they beat, did they beat North Carolina? I want to say they beat North Carolina in Raleigh. Yeah. They beat North Carolina in the second round, 72 to 71. And they ended up to that final four.

How much of the audience is 50 years or older? I know. But that was the Michigan State, Indiana State, you know, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, National Championship game. So any event, it took me 50 years and it took my son. So Colin is the smartest guy I know in analytics. He's sort of the Logan Paulson without the schematic. Right.

And so Colin will explain what happened in the game. And then I'll add the entertainment and the good looks, I hope. Well, yeah, I mean, well, I would certainly, certainly the latter anyway, you will add to it. All right, that's awesome. Good for you now. You know, the post-game show, because, you know, I hosted the pre-game show for 13 years, and I did the post-game show for about five or six years, including the early years of Red Zebra, which, you know, Dan founded and was the majority shareholder of.

my preference was the post-game show. You know, it's funny, there were years in which the pre-game and the post-game kind of almost outrated the game itself because people watch the games on TV, you know, more than they listen to them. And, you know, no offense to that broadcast crew for some of the time, it wasn't Frank, Sonny, and Sam, where people were, you know, syncing up radios and TVs to listen to the game and watch it simultaneously. But the post-game show is really the, I think post-game shows are so much fun to do because you are in the emotion of the moment and your listeners are in it and they want to hear every piece of minutia about the game.

They want to share in this community of either joy or misery depending on the result. And it's always, you know, you know this, we've had this conversation before, Talk radio is long-form talk radio is really a unique animal in sports broadcasting. And what you capture on the day after a game or in the moments following the game is the true kind of emotion of it. And those are my favorite days. Like I love doing the show on Mondays during football season following the game. So we're hoping to capture that and do it one better because you've got to remember. remember for 30 years, my broadcast partner and this and I, when she was five, we have been

debating a redskin win or a redskin loss together for 30 years. This is my kid. Yeah. So we just, so we bring that together. And I had no doubt last night. No doubt at all. I couldn't, I was in the press box, so I had a little trouble seeing some of the plays. But I had no doubt that as soon as we gave up the first touchdown, as soon as Baltimore walked right down, Column was going to have a fit about Juan Martin, and he said, isn't the number two picks supposed to be plug and play? And Juan Martin had missed two tackles, but I hadn't seen it. I knew it was coming. I knew that focus, and that kind of laser focus, both positive and negatively.

Colin said Sidique Charles looked like a person he had never seen before last night. Like, who the heck can figure out how Sadiq Charles is blocking? Maybe Mitch Tishler maybe does a little bit. Colin had broken down Sadiq Charles' blocks while we're there. So that is one thing I hope. Let me give you some fair warning on that. Be a little bit careful with that. Not that a breakdown by Colin of Sadiq Charles's blocks one by one won't be something he can handle.

It's just every program director, all of us have ever worked for, insists on one thing more than any other, and that is play the hits. That one would seem to be a little bit far down the charts, but what do I know? I can't wait for the gut check post-game show. I got you. He's not going to say, look, this line was rejuvenated. We did the holes here. Juan Martin, Juan Martin's not ready for prime time.

So part of this will be insights, I think, that people will, But not find otherwise. The other part, the other part, we have some plans. First of all, I would hope that I've done enough appearances on people's shows that one each week, a guest who knows what they're talking about, Kevin Shearner or the like will come on to give their view. Of course, whenever. There you go. Yeah.

A second plan as well to get the view of the sort of well-known but the actual fan. I'm hoping to line up each week in addition to the Kevin Shearer or the analyst who comes on, someone that everyone will recognize but just a fan. So perhaps Mark Warner or Tim Cain when they watch the game, I'll line up in advance that they will come in and do it. Or when we play the Giants, my buddy Phil Murphy seems to be willing to do it. Or last night if we played Baltimore, I'd have Westmore. So the average fan, but an interesting fan.

And then a segment I am willing to have, and I have now reached out to her, is we cannot possibly, possibly judge Sam Hal in a vacuum each week without knowing, Kevin, what did Heineke do? So I am going to let Dr. Sabah call in each week for three minutes to tell us how Heineke did. Now, if it's 12 weeks of he's still on the bench, we will know we've done well on Sam Howl, but I do think it's a show for the people who are interested in talk radio as well. If they're interested in the game, they're interested in the emotions in the first hour, but then they're interested in the comfort food, the kind of things they hear on the Sheehan show or on similar shows.

Will you give equal time to like a Republican governor from the state of Virginia or a former Republican governor from the state of Maryland or not? Glenn Young, come on. You know, I should tell you when I was at training camp last week, it used to be when you went to training camp. It was like the desert, desolate. The sand was blowing in your face. There were 200 people aimlessly walking around trying to see this practice.

When you go now, it's total merriment. And so I was there last week when Governor Moore was there. So Westmore from Maryland. and, you know, he's wearing a Chase Young jersey, and Aruna Miller, the lieutenant governor is wearing a jersey, and she's throwing her passes. And it's a photo op now. To be with the commanders now went from somewhere that as a politician or a public official, you had to be 17 miles from to a complete photo op. And so I was there with West Moore, and we were chatting, and I mentioned my political talk show. and then I got sort of a lump in my throat, and I said, Governor, I have to make a confession.

So in his race, there were four main Democrats. Three were good friends of mine who I expected one of the three to win, and the other was this guy Westmore, who I didn't know at all. So I said, I have this weekly talk show down in Virginia, and I had Peter Francho on during the race. Right. I had a longtime role in the race. Yeah.

And I had Tom Prynton. Perez on during the race. Those were the three opponents. But I never called you and I'm kind of, and he gets a big smile. He says, Mr. Ambassador, nobody called me back then. They didn't expect me to be there, but we'll fix it now. Let's go on the show. So this is the sort of, it's a magnet now. The commanders, the commanders broadcast being associated with it is a magnet. Last night, Wale was there. The governor Moore was there. Governor Moore was an honorary captain for the commanders and he's a Ravens fan. Well, that is a politician for sure, right there. Stradling both sides of the fence.

Good for him. So tell us real quickly, because you know Mitch and you've kind of been close to the transition here. How are things going for Josh and for Mitch and for magic and for Mark and everybody? I think it is going beyond their expectations for what they can control, but what they can control they recognize and hopefully all the fans recognize is a very small part of the equation. What ultimately matters a lot more is how Terry McCorren's toe went last night

than all that they could do, but at least on the experience, at least on the fan experience, at least on the morality. and the inclusion at the club level and beginning, you know, to get into the community and the fan experience, they have made huge strides. And we see the results. You saw the results at the experience at the stadium last night. I mean, the press loves doing side-by-side shows, like pictures side-by-side of a broken soda machine in a desolate area versus what was available yesterday.

Or, you know, the sidelines at the training camp. Training camp was a massive success. There were giveaways and there were signatures everywhere. And the owners had a personal investment. Now, I know that Kevin always says, the main thing you want to see about an owner is not to see them. But they're there kind of as fans, and I was standing next to Mitch, and someone yelled out,

thanks so much for saving us, Mr. Rails. And Mitch turns around and said, thanks so much for coming back. And you went over to the fan, and they chat, and sure you get the photo op, so of course he knows for a while the cameras are there, seeing it.

But long after the cameras left, Mitch is still chatting, and the guy was a vet. And so people start lining up for Mitch's signature. And Wardabows and the like, and Mitch says, is it okay if I just signed my first name? So he's signing everything Mitch.

Now, can you imagine in the last 20 years any of that happening? Right. If Dan Snyder said, do you mind if I just signed Dan? Like, everyone thought Dan Snyder's first name was Mr. Right. So it's just merriment. They are enjoying it. The fans are enjoying it.

The fans are grateful. The giveaways, the not feeling like you're being taken advantage of, but you're all in this together. Yeah. But the issue is, what are we in together? It's still going to depend on Sam Howell's ability to read the defense. It's still going to depend on whether we've made a mistake at Mill linebacker and the Steelers did better or we've done better.

And that's something they know they can't control. But even from that perspective, it's always sunny in Auburn on August, and they know that. But it's sunny in Auburn. It's always sunny in Ashburn in August. We all think of, you know, if only this, if only that. but it was sunny, it was sunny this time in training camp, and it's sunny right now after last night.

It doesn't matter if it's a third-string offense. It doesn't matter. We saw Sam Howell make throws that we can believe in, and in our mind we saw Chase Young coming back, and in our mind we saw everyone healthy and this team clicking, and we're going to keep those images until we lose them. Absolutely. There's no cost to keeping those images right now at all.

what else what else have you been up to because it's been a while since you've been on you know when you said you know and I asked you how they were doing and you said look they're kind of controlling what they can control

everybody understands that there are certain things they can't do right now you know they can't change the name right now they can't even begin the process of changing the name right now but you know like I know this is still, you know, a significant issue among fans?

Do they know it's a significant issue among their fan base? They understand that the stadium is a long-term issue and a question, that the name, whether it stays or it changes, is an issue that has to be addressed. They understand that long-term there's questions about, does management on the administration side stay, does management on the football side stay? but they've just now gotten a team and what they wanted to make sure was

training camp was good for the fans and it was the first game last night was good for the fans and the press and I can tell you it seemed like merriment there that they're looking to sell out the first game they're looking to sell out the bills game now

you know if they get 55,000 which I bet they will at Arizona that's going to be 55,000 commanders fans because there's probably only seven Arizona fans, and none of them travel. So do you think the opener is going to sell out or not? Yes.

Okay, because that, I think, is 60-something thousand. Okay. I think they're about to put on standing room. Let them announce it when they do, but I think we're going to shortly be on standing room only. And I think they're going to show out the Bills game. Now, the Bills game is a little harder to claim it's all Commander fans because Bills fans are everywhere, and Bill's fans' fans,

travel. And again, they can't even do anything about that. If those tickets were out already, the Bill's fans had gotten their tickets before Josh and Mitch and Mark got the team, nothing much they can do about that, but they see the upticks. And if the first two games sell out, and if we have a couple of wins, then it's going to be something that hasn't been in 25 years, a hot ticket. And something where you get in on Monday morning and you're talking about what happened with our football team again and that you're waiting to see your friends to talk about what happened to our football team.

And that's what they want this area to feel and to know. And then if it doesn't work and it doesn't work because of shortcomings, that's something that is businessmen, they will understand and they will react to. You have to remember the unique thing about this ownership group, and I don't think people get it enough because it's not that's that intuitive a concept. Josh Harris, Mark Ein, and Mitch Rails are not businessmen in the sense that they bought a business and they built it themselves, and therefore they think they know how to build a football team. They are, in essence, investors. They buy businesses, put the right people substantively in place, and let those businesses grow. Mitch did that in Daner, which is a company that bought industrial companies and put management in.

It's not like Mitch knew how to run Black and Decker. It's he knew how to put the best executives in Black and Decker when Danahar bought it. And similarly, Josh Harris came from a private equity fund. They bought businesses, put the best people in their place, let them grow, and then made money on the financial of dealing those businesses. Now, this is not a business. They're going to deal quickly. But that concept, figure out who the best people are, put them in place,

give them what they need to do. That's the model they've been at. Dan was able to build a marketing company so he thought he could build Johnny Rockets and he thought he knew how to build a football team. These guys know that you invest in something that has value, that has value could mean a lot. of things. In this case, it's a community value. They very much regard themselves as custodians for this city. They are holding it. They are entrusted with it, but they

generally are probably as good as the DMV has at figuring out how to make such enterprises successful, and they just need the time to do so. Howard Gutman, everybody, along with Colin Gutman, will host the gut check post-game show on Richmond's Washington Commanders Radio Network, and I think you'll be able to listen to it on the Odyssey app. And that will start, I'm assuming, after the opener. The first September 10th, our first post-game. So where will the studio be? Do you have to go down to Richmond to do it? Well, so the beauty these days, I do my talk show from either Miami or my basement here,

and it's easier, in fact, we will be, so I will be in the stadium in home games, and they've got a place where I'll do it. Con will join me for a couple, but he'll probably be in Miami. But we can do it that way, and that still allows for guest callers in, for callers generally,

and for the Sabah report of how did Taylor, how did Heineke do? Oh, boy, I can't wait for that part of it. All right, it's so good to hear your voice, so good to catch up. And before the opener, let's get you back on so we can talk about that postgame show and remind everybody that's one of the things they can do. Looking forward to it, Kevin.

Thanks so much. The great Howard Gutman, everybody, always enjoy my conversations with Mr. Ambassador. A few things to finish up with before we call it quits for the day. First of all, a reminder that if you happen to have... have a trip plan to Las Vegas between now and September 9th, consider signing up for the Circa Million and the Circa Survivor Pools. They are the biggest contests in Las Vegas. The Circa Million guarantees $6 million in prizes. A million to the winner. The top 100 pays. Pick five teams each week in the NFL against the spread and end up with a really, really good record,

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No rake. All of the extra money goes into the prize pool. Entries are open until September 9th at 2 p.m. You must register in person at a circus sports book in Nevada. Weekly picks made through a proxy from anywhere. So, Chris Sims, who some of you believe is a bit of a quarterback guru. I know that he's been right on some quarterbacks coming out of college. I can't list the quarterbacks that he's been right about.

Chris Sims, remember, played quarterback for Tampa, actually lost a playoff game against Washington as a starting quarterback. The last playoff game that Washington won was against Chris Sims in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in January of 2006. But listen to what Chris Sims said this morning on his profile. football talk show. I think he does it with Mike Florio. But listen to what he said about Sam Howell last night.

Sam Howell was phenomenal. I know it wasn't the starting Ravens' defense. But how could you not be encouraged by the way Sam, Sam Howell looked last night if you're a Washington commanders fan? I mean, one, poised through the ball, great, makes plays outside the pocket, can escape and play some backyard football doesn't get outside of the pocket too quickly. We'll hang in there and wait at times when they was collapsing and go,

I'll wait. Somebody's about to come open right there, like even great patience there. And then he's got the strength to break some arm tackles and make some plays like that. I mean, that's how a first team offense is supposed to look against the second team defense. And man, that was very impressive by Sam Howe. Can't say enough positive things about the way he looked last night. Chris Sims really, really positive. about Sam Howl.

A lot of people were after the game last night. I mean, part of that is just the nature of having a nationally televised game, the only game of the night. And it turned out for a preseason game to be a pretty entertaining game. And he played well. He did play well. All right. Don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify.

That's such a big help. Following us is a big deal as well. Subscribing to the show, all of that is helpful for us. I'm going to leave you with this and make of it what you will. But Ron Rivera talking about Sam Howell's performance last night, I think told you all you need to know, he thinks they have found their quarterback. Back tomorrow. There's a lot of pressure, obviously, and we know how important the quarterback position is in the league

and how important it is in this area, you know, that we've been looking for one. And I think we have an opportunity to have a guy that has a chance to be a real. good football player for us.