The Kevin Sheehan Show - Hustler & The In-Between Step

Episode Date: February 11, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the Washington Football QB situation. The team can take a big step, small step, or even as Kevin tried to convince Thom of, an in-between step. The boys made guesses on who will start the 2021 opener. They also talked Bob Waterfield, Jayne Mansfield, Jane Russell, Matt Stafford, Mark Cuban, Larry Flynt, the anthem, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. It's a sports fix Thursday version 2.0. I don't know. Maybe we're on version 3.0 at this point, as long as we've been doing the podcast together now.

I'm late today with you. I told you to be ready at 1015, and then I couldn't do it with you at 1015. and the reason why I couldn't do it at 10.15 is I just recorded an interview with Taylor Heineke, which I will run on the radio show tomorrow at 8 a.m. So if you listen to the radio show or if you don't, Team 980 tomorrow morning, 8 a.m. With Taylor Heineke, who could not be a nicer young man, Tommy, smart, quick, some personality. And I actually enjoyed my conversation with him. I know you don't always enjoy your conversations with athletes.

And you're very, very critical of some of them as interviewers or interviewees. And I don't always enjoy them either. This one I really enjoyed. Really, really nice young man, really smart. Tommy, he's taking classes at ODU. Some of these classes that he was taking. Do you know how hard they are? Like, they're ridiculous.

Like, you're talking about derivatives class. I asked him what mathematics in nature was, because that's one of the classes he was taking. And he got into like, well, you know, like you see a spider web. And then I, once I started to think about all of the different, you know, possible geometric designs of that spider web, I sort of checked out on his answer because he's clearly very bright and he got a contract yesterday, which we did have Cooley on to talk about. we know more about the deal here this morning than we did yesterday. It is really not a very significant deal in terms of the commitment that the team is making.

It's a $1 million base salary year, one and a half million base salary year two, but there's only $500,000 guaranteed in this deal. With that said, I know they like him. I think he's absolutely going to be on the roster this year. What was your reaction? Oh, I mean, look, there's no reason why they wouldn't have signed him to a deal like that. It's obvious they liked them. They liked them.

He said that Ron Rivera was the only NFL coach who showed up at his pro day, right? Scott Turner, yeah. Well, I thought he mentioned Ron Rivera. Okay. But, I mean, that could be wrong. I'm just reading what's been reported, so I don't know. So obviously they like him. The deal is a good one for the team.

You know, it's not a lot of money. It keeps them, you know, in the loop. And he sounds like, he sounds like your typical backup quarterback. Have you, think of how many backup quarterbacks that you've known are not nice guys. It comes with the territory. Yeah. Yeah, because God. Because you have to, you have to sub-serviate your person.

personality and your ego to be the backup quarterback. I mean, Cole had you within 10 seconds. He had you hooked. But he's not the only one. Most backup quarterbacks wind up working for ESPN when they're done. Yeah, true. You know? True.

So it's not surprising. He sounds like a very nice young man, and I think it's a good deal for the team. I definitely would want to have him in the mix. Is there going to be a mix? there's going to be a competition. Yeah, so this leads me into this, and this is what I want our opening conversation today to be. I also have a couple of other ideas for conversations before the end of the show.

But the conversation that I wanted to start with, unless you have something better, we didn't pre-show, you know, discuss this this morning. I'm doing polls now, Tommy, on the radio show. I do polls primarily because they're sponsored. I don't love doing polls. I've got to come up with a poll idea virtually every day, but they're being sponsored. And they're being sponsored, by the way, by one of my all-time favorite sponsors, Wind Donation. Harley and Aaron, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com slash home show.

By the way, right now, get two free windows with every two you buy, and you don't have to put a down payment down. You don't have to make any payments, and you don't have to pay any interest for two full years. You'll save thousands. Just tell them that I told you to call. But anyway, I put the poll up today, and I tried to keep it really simple, even though I wanted more discussion about it, which I got via the follow-up and then on radio this morning. The starting quarterback week one, 2021 for the Washington football team will be, and I gave two choices. The first choice was Kyle Taylor or Alex, basically the quarterbacks that were on the roster at the end of the year and the quarterbacks that could be on the roster next year. or a quarterback that's not on the roster currently.

54% so far think that the quarterback that starts in 2021 is not on the roster currently. And 46% believe that it's either Kyle Taylor or Alex Smith. What's your answer to that? I think it's either Kyle Taylor or Alex Smith. I think it's Kyle. Kyle Allen. Why? It will be your starting quarterback.

Because, I mean, that's who we're very very. Rivera wanted to play this year. You know, I mean, that's who, you know, Rivera made it clear at the end of the year that anything that people were impressed by by Alex, that Kyle could have done the same thing. You know, whether you believe it or not, that's what Rivera believes. He wasn't even asked. He just volunteered that information. He wasn't even asked that question.

Yeah, so he's establishing the credentials of his starting quarterback for next year in a comment like that. Now, again, I mean, I could be the contrarian and say, well, no, they're going to trade for Aaron Rogers, or they're going to somehow get to Sean Watson, or they're going to draft Justin Fields. But, I mean, the most likely scenario is Kyle Allen, I think, if he's healthy. And according to what he says, he will be healthy. Yeah, I agree with you. Wow, that was my answer this morning. It's not my preference, but I think that's what the answer is going to be for a few reasons.

Number one, they took a big swing at Matt Stafford, and they didn't get Matt Stafford. They expressed interest in Jared Goff. Jared Goff's in Detroit. They have, according to the athletic, they are one of the teams that has expressed interest in Derek Carr. I would expect the Washington football team if Sam Darnold is available to be one of the teams that will be interested in Sam. Darnold. It would not surprise me if they, you know, kick the tires on, you know, guys like Tyrod Taylor or Marcus Marriota or James Winston if he becomes available. I'm not even mentioning Deshawn Watson, which would be the other in addition to Stafford that I would really want them

to be aggressive going after. Those were the two. You know, Stafford and Watson. I don't think Watson will be available and I don't think, and Stafford isn't anymore. But I, you know, If they went after Darnold, I wouldn't be upset with that. And it wouldn't surprise me if they do if he becomes available. And then, you know, there's Tyrod Taylor and there's James Winston and there's Ryan Fitzpatrick and there's Dach Prescott. You know, this thing with Russell Wilson yesterday apparently upset the Seahawks. And there was a story also in the athletic that described a situation where the Seahawk brass not really happy with the interview that Russell Wilson did with Dan Patrick,

where he expressed the desire, if not the demand, to be involved in personnel decisions, and also, you know, through some of the teammates and front office people under the bus a little bit with how many times he's been sacked, even though, to be fair, he took a lot of the blame for that as well, essentially saying, look, I'm a guy that makes plays, and, you know, I run around a lot, and I try to extend, and those guys do get sacked more. You know, Carson Wentz, Deshawn Watson, and Russell Wilson were the three most sacked quarterbacks in the NFL. Why? Because they're always trying to extend and wait and try to make a play. And in the case of Russell Wilson and Deshawn Watson, it's why their teams have chances to win and have one in the past.

Because they make so many of those plays. But they also give up some sacks in the interim. Anyway, I mean, what if Russell Wilson got dealt to the Cowboys and Dak Prescott became. available. So there are people out there that I wouldn't mind if they took a big swing at, and I prefer that they go in that direction. My feeling is this, though. They wanted Stafford, Watson's probably out of their league. They expressed interest in golf. He's somewhere else. You know, Derek Carr, personally, I hope they don't spend two firsts. I wouldn't even give up a first for Derek Carr. And that eventually, you know, maybe not by choice, but by, you know,

it's not a within their control situation, right? I mean, the player, if he's a free agent, needs to want to come here. And if it's a trade, in some cases, there's no trade clauses where they can influence where they go and where they don't go. And other teams could offer more. I just have this feeling that we're going to end up with Kyle and Taylor Heineke. They're going to battle it out, and Kyle Allen's going to be the starter opening day 2021. I don't think that Alex Smith will be on the roster.

But if he is, it will be at a much lower number. It won't be at a $24 million cap number. It'll be probably one-sixth of that. Maybe, maybe a fourth of that. I mean, maybe you go to $6 million in terms of what you would pay Alex. But I think it's Heineke. I think it's Smith. I think Smith wins the job.

I think Heineke is the backup. And then if they draft a young quarterback at some point along the line, depending on where they draft that quarterback would sort of dictate what they do with the other two and where that quarterback is in terms of whether or not he's competing for a starting job or not. But that's how I think it's going to play out as well. I think I'd like to separate the field of potential quarterbacks to one category is big step. If you get one of these quarterbacks, your team takes a big step forward. next year. And then small step.

Okay. If you get one of these quarterbacks, you might take a small step forward, but not a huge step. Okay. Who's in the... Matt Stafford, I think, was a big step. Of course. The Sean Watson, obviously, big step. I mean, the other guys like Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, all big steps.

Right. Sam Darnel, small step. And this is a maybe. It's maybe small step. You know, even Derek Carr, small steps. step. Okay? So I mean, I'm not interested in a small step quarterback if I'm a Washington fan. I either want the big step or I'll play the hand that I got. I think there's an in-between category between big step and small step. Because I think that like Sam Darnold would be the perfect example. We haven't seen enough of Sam Darnold. He was a first round pick, a high first round

pick. He's played on a terrible football team, a terrible offensive football team. But he's had moments, and the league likes him. Like, if you read between the lines, you can tell the league values Sam Darnold. There's a lot of belief. Kuiper wrote this, you know, in his last draft thing, that there are a lot of people around the league that will tell you that if Sam Darnold's put into a better situation, that he will thrive. So I think there's an in-between. Like, yes, Stafford, Watson top of the list. And if, you know, if DAC became available, I think Dak could be a big step guy as well.

I think there's an in-between category where I would probably stick Darnold. I would stick Winston. I would stick car, I guess. Because I think that that in-between step, if you signed one of those guys, they're starting. They're your starting quarter. and the plan is for them to be your starting quarterback for a while.

It may not be the big step that you thought Stafford would provide or certainly Watson would provide, and I think maybe even DAC would provide. But Darnold, Carr, Watson, in between step, where there's a chance that they end up being big step guys, and there's a chance they end up becoming small step guys. and then the smallest... You don't know how to make the step. I don't. You're not a good step builder.

No. You're not doing well because a big step to me would be 10 wins or more. Right. Okay? Yes. Now, they want seven games this year. How can there be a middle step when 10 wins is a big step? To me, a small step is one, eight wins, maybe.

No, no, no, no. A big step is 10 plus. An in-between step is could be 10-plus. I'm not looking for eight or nine. Could be 10-plus or could be a continuation of seven or less. I'm just not sure. That's why it's an appropriate step. It's in between.

It's an uncertain step, you know, like you take every day, because your steps, especially, you know, if it's a steep staircase, or if the weather's bad and it's icy, you have to be really careful. It's an uncertain step. Your next step could be your last. You know what? It's not icy here, buddy. No, it's not. Not where you are. In fact, it's about 68 degrees right now. And, you know, the only reason that you're working. I've been with you in icy conditions. I've been with you in icy conditions, and I have seen the difference. between a big step which you're incapable of making in icy conditions, a small step which

you're not really comfortable making, and an uncertain step. It was so uncertain that I had to drop you off on dry pavement at the Super Bowl in Dallas that year every single day because you were so uncertain. It was like ice station zebra. It was. Come on. It was terrible. It was like walking on an ice skating rink. God, it was awful. But what did I do for you that whole week? Well, you wanted me on the show. Wanted me on the show again.

I didn't want you that much on the show. I could have done the show without you, but I took you right to the front door where you would step out onto all. Don't make it like you did this big thing. You had to pass by the front door to get to the parking line. Not all the time. Not all the time. Oh, yes, you did. I went out of my way to drop you on drive.

payment underneath a big overhang. Stop and let me out of the car. Here's the bottom line. If I didn't stop and let you out of the car, there would have been some uncertain steps from you. I'm a more confident stepper in bad weather. Anyway, you know, knock on wood, it'll happen next week. I'll break my hip, slipping on the ice. I think there's an in-between step.

That's all. I think that Darnold and Carr and. And what was the other one I said? Winston. God, Winston is so intriguing to me. But I think Sean Peyton's going to keep him. I think Sean Peyton is going to keep James Winston. So do I. And then I think there are the Tyrod Taylor's and the Marcus Mariotas

and the Gardner Minchus and the, you know. And he might as well keep Kyle Allen. Yeah. Might be go with Kyle Allen. You know what? If you bring any of those guys. You know who I wouldn't just stick with Kyle Allen if he wanted to come here, Ryan Fitzpatrick?

Of course not. Of course not. The guy who can't make up his mind, the backup quarterback starter. You get the best to the backup quarterback, but he likes being a starter sometimes. I don't even know what step we would put him on, because it's not a big step. It's certainly not a small step, and it's not an uncertain step. It would be a certain but very short step. It would be a very short staircase. It would be basically, he'd be doing the two-step, Tom. He'd be two-step. He'd be two-step. He'd be two-step. steps, and that would be one year, two years done. And then we have some exciting times, maybe with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Look, for the fun factor, count me in on Ryan Fitzpatrick. If I was a Washington

fan, again, unless I'm taking a big shot, I'm staying with what I got. Yeah, Ryan Fitzpatrick would look at Taylor Heineke, and he would say, look, it's not Harvard O'DU. You know, some refer to it as the as the Harvard of the Tidewater area. But man, you were taking some difficult classes. And good for you. But I really, my gut tells me that they took a big swing that we know about. They may have taken another swing that we don't know about. The reports are golf and car.

That they might even take another swing or two, but that ultimately they're not going to get somebody. and Stafford was their best shot. And they're going to go and look, it would be one thing if they had, you know, John Beck and, I don't even want to say Rex because the coaching staff believed in Rex. John, you know, John Beck and Colt McCoy coming back, although Jay Gruden believed in Colt McCoy. If you had, you know, Alex retiring and he had played the whole year and you really didn't have anybody, but they like Kyle Allen.

Actually, they don't like Kyle Allen. They really like Kyle Allen. They like Taylor Heineke. I was told, by the way, Tommy, and I shared this on the radio show, and I forget if I've said it on this show or not, that prior to the Carolina game, which was, you know, the game that followed the game that Alex got hurt in. And it was not a must-win game, if you recall.

I'm sorry, it was following the Seattle game. Dwaynes came in in the San Francisco game because he was the backup. And then he played in the Seattle game. And if you recall, they were down 20 to 3. Hopkins missed an extra point. But Dwayne had them deep in Seattle territory at the end with a chance to win the game. I was told that basically everybody but Ron Rivera wanted Taylor Heineke to start the Carolina game. And that Ron Rivera immediately said, no, it's Dwayne.

And he remember said when he cut Dwayne about starting. him against Carolina. He said, well, he played pretty well in the second half against Seattle, and I felt like he had some confidence off of that second half, which, by the way, I felt too. Like, I thought that was the best that we had seen of Dwayne all year long, even more so than that Philadelphia game. He got into a rhythm in that second half, and they were down 20 to 3, and he drove them twice for touchdowns and then had a chance down to the game. 20 to 15. If that dumb, dumb Hopkins didn't miss the extra point, they would have kicked a field goal. The game would have gone to overtime at 2020. But I was told that basically,

not that Ron believed that Dwayne was some sort of long-term answer. They knew that ship had sailed at that point. But without Alex being able to play, he said very early in the week, nope, we are going with Dwayne. And, you know, Neil and Rockville reminded me, imagine that they had started Taylor and he had gotten hurt in that game, and they had lost it. And then Alex started the Eagles game, got him into the playoff game, which would have left because Alex couldn't go in the playoff game, Dwayne to start the playoff game, because they wouldn't have released him. My God.

Neil and his Dwayne infatuation. It's really pathetic. Well, he doesn't like any of them. I mean, he basically said the only thing the three quarterbacks on the roster would be good at at this point is a three-legged race. which is mean, but yeah, they've all been injured. You know, there's that concern too. But the net of it is this.

I think it's going to be Kyle with Taylor Heineke and no Alex, and then a third that comes from somewhere. And, you know, it's a young player. And that one of those two will start. My lean would be Kyle Smith. And the only reason I think that's even in play. Kyle Allen, not Kyle Allen. Kyle Allen, I do that all the time.

Kyle Allen. The only reason I believe that's in play is because they like both of them, and they think they can run a competent professional NFL offense with certainly Kyle Allen, and I think there's some belief in Taylor Heineke as well. And the other part of that is I just think they'll strike out on everything else. And I think that they may have a few opportunities, but they may look at those opportunities as, well, why are we going to spend on that? That's not much better than what we have.

Yeah, I would agree. Sounds good. Did we solve that? Let me ask you a question. What? Is Washington still a toxic destination in the NFL, you think? I think there's still a stigma, but I think the fact that Chase Young was on the team and that their defense was perceived to be really good and on the rise

and that people know about Terry McLorne and people believe in Ron Rivera being a good coach, I think that it's not a cross it off your list immediately destination anymore. I think part of the issue, though, Tommy, and this is maybe what they recognize too. They have all this cap space. They probably feel like if they found, like, Matt Stafford, that they could then also attract some big-time free agents.

With Kyle Allen as your starting quarterback, or Kyle Allen and or Taylor Heineke, is Alan Robinson really going to come to Washington instead of going to Los Angeles? Is, you know, Kenny Goliday, if he's available, you know, is Chris Godwin if he ends up leaving Tampa? You know, you have to think in those terms too because, you know, you're not going to attract a big-time wide receiver, which they want. They want a second wide receiver. Look, they swung big on Amari Cooper last year. Why didn't Amari Cooper come here? The money was better. Well, maybe it's because he really likes Dallas.

I'll give in to that. That's a big part of it. The other part is, well, who's your quarterback? I mean, what's your offense going to be like? You've got a new offensive coordinator. And, you know, Haskins, I'm not a believer. So getting Stafford would have put you in a position to also attract with all of that cap space you have, you know, free agents to the team.

And by the way, just not on offense, on defense too, if you wanted to spend money on defense. So to answer your question, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as it used to be after one year. But I think the more important issue now is, is it attractive enough from a, you know, hey, I've got a chance to really thrive. You know, offensively, there will be question marks about a, wide receiver's ability to thrive if the quarterback's coming back are Kyle, Taylor, and Alex. All good points. I mean, in the old days, even when they were toxic, the attraction was this is a place to go get paid. Yeah.

And that's not the case anymore. Well, that hasn't been the case for a while because Bruce Allen cut that gravy train off. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. For 10 years, and I've talked to players about. this. Except for Josh Norman. Well, and Deshawn Jackson.

And neither one of them were good fits for the team. Actually, Jackson was, but not necessarily culturally. But, you know, I've talked to players before, and, you know, basically the whole league viewed when it was Dan and Vinny, the whole league viewed them as they're going to overpay, period. So I'm going to go talk to them. I'm going to go listen to their pitch because I'm not. not going to get a better financial offer than the one I'll get from them.

And then we went through this era of Bruce Allen being the guy that signed players to great contracts. The problem with most of it is that the players sucked. You know, Tommy, it really is fascinating when you consider the two different parts of the Snyder ownership, part one, which was Dan and Vinny, you know, overspending, over-trading for aging stars past their prime, absolutely intent on making a huge, you know, marketing splash in the off season to sell tickets, to sell corporate suites, to attract corporate sponsors with absolutely no idea about whether or not it would lead to wins. And then you get to the Bruce Allen era. And, you know, there are a couple of decent signings along the way. Obviously, Pierre

Garsohn was a really good signing. Vernon Davis. was a really good signing. But my God was Bruce the King of, hey, I got a great deal on a D plus C minus player. You know, it was one after another, you know, whether it was, you know, Kendall Reyes or Ternard Jackson or, you know, E.J. Biggers, you know, all these guys that just came in and he's like, look at the deal we got on Tracy Porter. Or look at the deal on Stacey McGee and Terrell McLean. remember he started the two, you know, the two M guys from Dallas, McGee and McLean, and it was like

they got the, oh my God, they hardly paid anything for them. Well, the reason was they sucked. You know, they couldn't play. Terrell Pryor. Oh, my God. They stuck their chest out on that one. Stephen Paya. I mean, Terrence Knighton, Deshawn Goldson, Jaron Johnson, David Bruton. I mean, it was just one shitty deal. Great deal contractually. Bruce was so proud of himself, none of them could play. None of them could play. Now they...

So now what's this group going to be like? We're going to find out this is going to be really their first free agency period with money. You know, they've got some money to spend. They went after Cooper last year, and they swung big on Amari Cooper. My belief is based on information I had at the time is that they were going to be very interested in Kenyon Drake, had Drake not re-signed immediately with Arizona. But remember, it was very much a dip-your-to-to-in approach for Ron Rivera last year. Remember, he didn't want to extend anybody.

If anybody didn't want to be there, like Trent Williams, you know, he was moving on. Dunbar, Quentin Dunbar, he was moving on from him. It was about the culture change, and he wanted to make sure he was right. You know, I think he knows enough about Brandon Sheriff now to know that they've got extend Brandon Sheriff. I think he knows probably enough about Ronald Darby and Kevin Pierre Lewis that he may, you know, offer them extensions. I think, you know, Kyle Allen is that, you know, exclusive rights free agent, knows enough about him. By the way, Cam Sims is a restricted free agent, so they're going to have to re-sign him as well. So it's going to be interesting. Like this will be,

he's got a better sense, better lay of the land, knows what he has, knows what he doesn't have. I think he's still going to look for guys that can play, but he's not going to take risks on guys where the due diligence comes up as, eh, you're taking a shot with this one. Maybe it's the right fit here. It wasn't here for whatever reason. I don't think he's taking a chance on any of those dudes. I think he's still.

Well, then it's a good thing. He got some help this year to make. the decisions with the money they've got. Sure. The good thing he brought in some new help. Yeah, it is. Yes. Yeah.

I mean, you know, and... It's an important year for the front office. They have a hell of a lot of cap space, and they're going to probably create more with Alex Smith, and they've got needs. You know, this team was 7 and 9 last year. We're all aware. They played a playoff game, and they played a playoff game against the eventual Super Bowl champions, and it was a close game.

But they got a lot of needs, and they're a lot of. lots of ways to fill those needs. The cheapest ways through the draft. But that's also the one where you're least sure about. There's going to be some opportunities in free agency. But remember, with free agency, the player needs to want to come here. And they gave Amari Cooper in the first year a big deal. And I think what they saw is they saw a guy in McLaurin that with another guy opposite him,

they had a real chance to be much better than most people thought, offensively in the first year. I agree with them, by the way. I think if Cooper had been on the team, they would have been even more explosive. But we'll see. It's going to be an interesting offseason. The quarterback thing, it sounds like you and I agree on amazingly. We think it'll be Kyle Allen starting with Taylor Heineke. And do you think Alex Smith will be on the roster or not? No, I don't. I don't know. But, you know, again, I mean, this guy, I mean, you know, you think I'd learn not to bet against this guy, but no. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, it makes sense. It just doesn't.

Yeah, I'm just reading because I literally just, this just hit my phone. Kime just released a story, I guess he did it earlier today, about Alex Smith. I'm trying to see, there's just no chance he comes back on his current deal. John basically spells it out, returns on a lesser deal, retires from the NFL, released by Washington. Yeah, it's one of those three. Obviously, it's one of those three. I honestly think that I don't know, man. I can't figure him out. I would have thought he proved what he wanted to prove and he might retire.

But he didn't play poorly when he was healthy on the field this year. He probably thinks he can play. How many years? He's six years younger than Tom Brady. He's probably thinking if I'm back healthy again, I can play another four or five years and give a team something. And he can. provide something. It's just unfortunately not going to be consistent enough and he's not going to be

healthy enough. Anyway, okay, back with a couple of other subjects right after this word from one of our sponsors. I wanted to get to this real quickly because I just saw this when we went to break. Matt Stafford, I guess, spoke today, or maybe it was yesterday to Detroit media outlets. And he said, he was very surprised that he got traded to the Rams. He told the Detroit Free Press, he initially thought he would be heading to Indianapolis, San Francisco, or Washington. All were obvious landing spots looking for a quarterback. He actually didn't think the Rams would be a team that could pull off the big trade. He said, quote, I'm not a salary cap guru. It's, it kind of got to the point where I'm like, okay, I can't sit here and go crazy. I just tried to let it happen.

and L.A. aggressively jumped into it. And he's excited about that. You know, it's a place where he wants to be. But, you know, that comment means that, you know, he would have accepted a trade to Washington had it happened. You know, that was the thing about the difference between, like, Stafford and Watson. He didn't have a no trade clause in his contract.

He couldn't control where he got traded. He couldn't stop Detroit from trading him to any place that Detroit decided to trade him to. Stafford said he met with team president Rod Wood and owner Sheila Ford Hamp just after the season to have a conversation and the Lions were open to his request because he did ask to be traded and started seeking out trade partners after the team hired Brad Holmes to be the GM and Dan Campbell to be the coach. Anyway, what were the other teams that he said he thought he might go to? Indie, San Francisco, Washington. Indie, San Francisco, Washington, yeah. Yeah, remember Carolina was reportedly the team that, along with Washington, was the frontrunner on that Saturday before the Saturday night when the deal got done with the Rams.

Brad Holmes, remember, was part... Where is the most pressure for him to produce at all those teams? Well, it would have been in one of the three places that you believe are teed up to win a Super Bowl or contend for a Super Bowl. Rams, the Colts, and the 49ers. If he had gone to... I'm not sure people think the Colts are teed up to win a Super Bowl. Oh, I do. I think with the right quarterback they are. I think he wound up with the team that has the most pressure to win a Super Bowl for him now.

And that's the Rams. Yeah. But I think all three teams, had he gone to any one of the three, the expectations would have been super high. But maybe out of the three, yeah, I could see that because Sean hasn't won one. Because they are going all in right now. But if the 49ers had gotten him, it would have been a bit of an all-in move, too. It would have. But, I mean, you know, the culture is just coming off a year where they had Silver Rivers at their starting quarterback.

I know. You know, and they were. Yeah, and they were super close to advancing in the post. season. I mean, they nearly beat Buffalo, and I think, I think people around the league really think the Colts roster with really good quarterback play is, you know, Rivers was coming on. They would have been a tough out, and they nearly were for Buffalo. I think they look at that situation and say, you get an elite quarterback in there that may be a little bit younger than Rivers. You've got a, you've got a window here of two or three years to win it. That's a good roster, man. That is a hell

of a roster. That is a good defensive football team. But the 49ers, probably, out of all three, with Stafford and if Bosa and everybody comes back healthy, may have been the team that would have been closest to winning the Super Bowl of the three. The Rams are really good, too, defensively, but the 49ers were the best defensive team in football in 2019 and lost some players and due to free agency trade and then, of course, the injury to Bosa and others. That really derailed their season, and then they didn't have a quarterback for most of the year either. So the 49ers were in the Super Bowl and had a 10-point lead against the Chiefs a year ago. They just came back with a team that was too injured and too limited.

And if you put Stafford on that team and Bosa returned, I think they would have been a bigger favorite to advance to the Super Bowl. than the Rams are right now, and the Rams are up there. That may be, but the perception is more than anybody, because Sean McVey is his rock star coach, and the Rams are in L.A., that there's more pressure, I think, on him and the Rams job than it would be at the 49ers job. I mean, it's so obvious that they brought,

I mean, Kyle, Kyle Shanahan went to the Super Bowl two years ago, with Jimmy Garofalo. Okay? It's so... Garopolo. I mean, it's so obvious that Sean McVeigh has gotten Matt Stafford to win the Super Bowl.

That's it. Well, Sean McVeigh got his team to the Super Bowl also and lost to Brady and the Patriots with Jared Gauphin quarterback. Right. But I think he wound up in the highest pressure job he could. I think the reason that I would agree with you is that the Rams have made it very clear by the way they've handled their off seasons

that the future is now, you know, the George Allen mantra. The future is now. They have essentially thrown away so much draft future draft capital, and they think they can win it now. And they certainly have a defense that's capable of winning it now. And I think if they add a receiver, I think they need one more receiver. Cooley pointed that out yesterday, too. You put one more receiver on that team, and you have yourself a team that in the NFC, along with Green Bay and Tampa, and, you know, it depends on what the New Orleans situation is, a quarterback.

But you put yourself right there in the mix to be an NFC champion in advance to a Super Bowl next year. So I agree. But the Rams are also different because there's tremendous pressure on them. Yes, I'm agreeing with you. market. I know. Oh, because of the L.A. market. Even more than any other team, the L.A. market to establish a presence in their new stadium, which, you know, didn't it take fans last year when it opened.

So it's like opening up all over again probably this year if they have fans. I mean, there's a battle going on in L.A. like no place else in the country. What do you mean? When it comes to marketing and fan bases. and the Rams haven't been in L.A. The L.A. didn't have football for 20 years. They're still trying to establish themselves in L.A. So it's real important for that team to compete for the Super Bowl

pretty much as soon as that stadium opens, which even though it did this past year, they'll have fans next year. Not that this is disputing anything you just said because I agree with you. the 49er fan base is much more passionate than the Rams fan base, much more. I know that. Yeah, okay.

I know that. That's why they, I'm saying they have to establish a fan base. Do you know who would be great? You know, and by the way, the 49ers fan base is diminished significantly by the fact that their stadium is almost an hour away. That may be true, but I think one of the underrated fan bases over the last, you know, many, many years, obviously 30 years, you know, or longer. going back to the 80s.

A lot of people thought, you know, in general, the California fan bases weren't passionate. The 49er fan base was super passionate in the Bay Area, super passionate. You know who would be a tremendous help to the Rams in marketing efforts would be if he were still alive, Pete Roselle. Because in that Al Davis 30 for 30, which you did not watch, and I've asked you to watch it, which is, you know, fine. It's not the greatest 30 for 30 I've ever seen. I just think Al Davis is such an interesting figure.

And I think the relationship and the adversarial relationship between Roselle and Al Davis was, as it was billed, one of the great rivalries in the history of all of sports. But Roselle was the PR guy for the Rams. He made the Rams super popular in Southern California in the 1950s. He was basically the The PR guy I guess back then it wasn't just handling interviews for athletes It was coming up with a real plan To market the team

To the area in which it played But anyway I don't think it hurt It hurt the Rams that their quarterback I think was married to or dated One of the biggest stars in Hollywood Hold on, can I guess? Can I guess Was it Waterfield and Jane Mansfield?

Yes I got it. Jane Russell. Jane Russell. Jane Russell. Which is the, wait, hold on, hold on. Is it Jane Mansfield that was killed in the car accident? Yes. Oh, that's who I was thinking of then. And she's buried in Penn Orchal, Pennsylvania, right outside of East Strasbourg. She was gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah, she was. Jane Russell. I mean, Jane Mansfield. And so it was Jane Russell. They were both gorgeous.

Okay. And so Waterfield was married or dating Jane Russell? I don't remember. One or the two. Might have been married. Do you know who Jane Mansfield's daughter is? Yeah. Mariska Hardigay. Exactly. Right. Okay. Yeah. Her father was a champion weightlifter. Mickey Hardigey. Exactly. He was Hungarian or from some country over in Eastern Europe and was a big body. builder weightlifter. He married Jane Mansfield, and they had Mariska, who of course, is the star of law,

has been a longtime star of Law and Order. Twenty-two years, I think. It's unbelievable. Something like that. But, you know, I'm so down. I used to be all, I used to love Mariska Hardigay because, I mean, one thing she's, she's a babe. Yeah. But I always like law, I like the Law and Order franchise. and I've never been a fan. No, I shouldn't say it. I've never watched it. I've never really watched it. Criminal and Ken, the regular law and order.

SVU, I like them all. But I'm down on SVU, which is the only one still currently producing shows. Because Mariska Hardigay has turned into Olivia Benson, her character, has turned into like this cop whisperer

kind of thing. I mean, she's so She's so compassionate, and she's so giving and caring of everybody in the show. It's gotten sickening. It's ridiculous. This is the same thing that happened that NYPD blew because it was on too long. They turned Sipowitz into a from a grouch into a teddy bear over the course of time. And it wasn't real. Mariska Hardigate, the character has become a caricature.

So I don't watch it anymore. I was down on her. I was a big fan of NYPD Blue. Loved the show. I mean, Sipowitz character changed by the end. The show was on too long. It actually... On too many years.

Actually, it wasn't on that long at all. How long was the run? I think 11 years. Oh, I don't even think it was 10 years. I think it was 11 years. Really? And the last couple, Sipowitz, was insufferably sensitive. Um, yeah. Um, God, who was, um, I forget her name. Oh, she played in a soap opera when I was in college on all my children and she was on NYPD Blue. Um, I'm not going to remember her name. Uh, the other thing, he was, he was married to two gorgeous women in the show.

Yeah, he was. Oh, uh, Kim Delaney. Who played Diane? Yes. Kim Delaney. Yes, who was married to Bobby Simone. Right. Because she was, I think it was all my children. When I was in college, I watched a lot of soap operas.

Because that's what you did in the 1980s in college is. I did too. I watched it, too. Yeah, I mean, well, General Hospital was the biggest hook. But she was Jenny on All My Children, right? Not one life to live. All my Children. Pretty much all my children.

For anybody that wants to correct me, go ahead. I used to watch One Life to Live. One Life to. Well, it was the ABC Triple Heather when I was in college was all my children, One Life to Live, and then everybody watched General Hospital. General Hospital probably in terms of a daytime soap opera, maybe even a daytime television show,

although I'm sure Oprah, you know, killed it. But I would bet you that some of those General Hospital shows in the 1980s drew millions and millions of viewers. The Luke and Laura, you know, saga, was huge in popular culture in the 80s, Tommy. Like, if you didn't even know what a general hospital was, you heard about the Luke and Laura wedding. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

You're right. It was a big deal. By the way, NYPD Blue, my babe. was Andrea Thompson, Jill Kirkendahl. Yeah, she was great. I liked, I... She was my babe. I liked all of the...

I liked that show. I never really got into Law & Order. By the way, what started this portion of the conversation, I can't remember. But what I was going to say... The Rams. What I was going to say to you is that the death of Jane Mansfield is horrific. And do you know that the daughter, I think I'm right about this

was in the vehicle and survived. She was one of Jane Mansfield's children that were in the vehicle that crashed and killed, I think, everybody in the front seat, but the children in the backseat survived. I think that's right. I'm looking it up as we speak. Hold on for a second.

She was born in Bryn Mawr, PA, and she's buried in Penn Argyll, Penn. Pennsylvania, which is just a stone's throw from East Stroudsburg. Yeah, here it is, Tom. She must have grown up there at some point. In 1967, Mansfield was in Biloxi, Mississippi for an engagement at the Gus Stevens Supper Club. After two appearances on the evening of June 28th, Mansfield, Sam Brody, he was her attorney

and companion, their driver, Ronnie Harrison, who was 20 years old, and three of her children, Miklos, Zoltan, and Mariska, left Biloxi after midnight in the 166. Buick Electra 225. Do you know what that car looked like? Whatever. Their destination was New Orleans, where Mansfield was to appear in a midday show the following day. At about 2.25 a.m. on U.S. Highway 90 West,

the Buick crashed at high speed into the rear of a tractor trailer shrouded in insecticide fog that had slowed behind a truck sprang mosquito fogger. So, hold on. The insecticide, oh, okay, I see. The tractor trailer was shrouded in the insecticide fog that the mosquito fogging truck in front of it was sprang. The three adults in the front seat died instantly.

The children asleep in the rear seat survived with minor injuries. And then this gets sort of morbid. But reports that Mansfield was decapitated are untrue, although she suffered severe head trauma. This urban legend started with the appearance of police photographs of the crashed car with its top virtually sheared off and what resembled a blonde-haired head tangled in the car's smashed windshield. Ew. However, the blonde object was a wig that Mansfield was wearing and possibly parts of her real hair and scalp. She was a true pin-up star. Is that what you called them back then?

Yes. Pin-up girl. Pin-up girl. But your girl was in the back seat, survived it. And I would imagine if it was 1967, I'm going to guess that she's 50 in her mid-50s, so she was probably three or four years old. That's my guess. It doesn't say how old the three children were.

How old do you think Mariska is? I'm thinking 56. Yeah, that's what I would guess. So that means she was born in 63, 64, and she would have been in a situation where she wouldn't have remembered it, right? She's 57 years old. I just like that. Okay. Jay Manfield was born in 1933 in Brinmar, PA.

Then she moved to Phillipsburg, New Jersey, a town I used to cover, I used to cover the politics and government in Silverburg, New Jersey. which is a wild town. And then they moved to Penn Argyne when she was three. And then she lived there for three years. But apparently she really felt a connection to Penn Argyll. That's where she's buried now. Bryn Marnar lovely, right outside of Philadelphia. By the way, do you know how many times she was married, Mansfield?

No. Four times. Three? Four times. Really? And she was only 34 when she passed away. It's a lot of marriages for 30. But they married early back then. Anyway, by the way, speaking of pinups, Larry Flint died yesterday.

And do you know how old Larry Flint was? 75. He was, I think 78. I would have thought he would have been so much older than that. I mean, how old was he when he started Hustler? He must have been in his like early 20s or teens. Have you ever seen the movie? The People versus Larry Flint?

Yeah, excellent. Excellent movie. Yeah. Woody Harrelson, right? Yeah, and Edward Norton. And Ed Norton. Very good. Directed by Milo Foreman.

Yeah, it's a good movie. But, yeah, I mean, it's kind of a remarkable story. What a life. And then, you know, he became this government, the burr in government, you know, this government gas fly who would hire investigators to come up on dirt

from government officials and stuff he was quite the character he started Hustler Magazine in 1972 it looks like so he would have been

78 so he would have been born 58 he would have been 42 so he would have been 30, so he would have been 30, years old. Okay, so I guess I was thinking that the magazine was probably started earlier.

But whatever. In the 60s, there weren't magazines like Hustler, buddy. No? There weren't? No. No, what year did Heffner start Playboy? Yeah, but Playboy was

like your mother and father's porn magazine. I know compared to Hustler, yes. I get that, but what year was... That's what I mean. When was Playboy started by the 50s? But there was nothing like Hustler in the 60s. At least not that it didn't come in a brown paper, brown rapper. No, no, no, no. Hustler, well, you would know this more than I. Hustler compared to Playboy was like real porn versus soft porn. I have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, you do. but listen I'm going to give everybody a heads up

I'm going to give myself a plug something I never do oh you never do okay right but uh I posted on Twitter and Facebook on the podcast that I used to do cigars and curveballs I did a long conversation with a writer

named Robert Ward very famous writer author used to be a right magazine profiles for inside sports he wrote the magazine profile where Reggie Jackson said, on the straw that stirs the drink. Well, he also did one on Larry Flint,

and he tells some great stories about how crazy Larry Flint was on this podcast, which I've just reposted on Twitter and Facebook. It's worth a listen. Robert Ward is very interesting guy with a very interesting life, but his Larry Flint stories are great. Um, just, just help me remember this. Larry Flint was in a wheelchair because he was shot, right?

Yes. Okay. What, why was he shot? Was he shot by some crazy religious, you know? I don't know. I forget the story from the movie. I mean, the story from the movie was he was at a, he was being tried for obscenity. Yeah, I know that.

But why was he... When he got shot. Oh, okay. So I would imagine that had something to do with it. Got it. Okay, I want to talk about this Mark Cuban thing with the National Anthem, canceling it at Dallas Mavericks Games. And we will do that right after this word from one of our sponsors.

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Just use my promo code Kevin, DC, to get your deposit matched halfway up to $1,000. So I talked about this not on the podcast yesterday, just on the radio show. Apparently, the Dallas Mavericks, going back to the preseason, have not been playing the national anthem before games. Now, nobody's in these arenas watching these games, and I've said this many times in the past, you know, barely, I mean, I don't know what the percentage is. But if you consider that most people, like the massive majority of people watch games on TV, then you're really talking about like 10% or less of the viewing audience of any given game, probably less than that, actually are exposed to the anthem before a sporting event. You don't see it on TV unless it's a Super Bowl.

You don't see that during the regular season. You don't see that during NBA regular season games. And if you're at the game, odds are you're at the concession stand, the bathroom, are still walking in from the parking lot or still getting hammered in the parking lot. I mean, Tom Brady, did you see how hammered he was yesterday, Tommy? A little bit. He looks like it would be a fun guy to hang out with after a big win. But anyway, Mark Cuban decided that they weren't going to play the national anthem.

And then this blew up into a story yesterday. And he had a lot of comments basically starting with, and I'll play, not play. I will read to you the critical comments from it. He says that they did not cancel the anthem. In fact, what he said was, we decided to test this in a preseason game to see what the reaction would be. Here's the quote. During the first preseason game, we decided not to play it and just see what the response was, knowing that we were going to have ongoing conversations about it.

We didn't make any decision to never play the national anthem then. That wasn't the case at all. We didn't cancel the national anthem. We still had our flag flying proud up on the wall at American Airlines Center and everybody had the opportunity to address it and pray to it or salute to it or whatever their feelings were. There was never any final decision that was made that we would not play the anthem. But they haven't been playing the anthem.

And he said, we respect and always have respected the passion people have for the anthem in our country. But we also loudly hear the voices of those who feel the anthem does not represent them. We feel that their voices need to be respected and heard because they have not been respected and heard. And then there was one other really good quote from him in here. But anyway, so there was definitely some backlash to the story yesterday. can see that he's backtracking a little bit that there wasn't like an official cancellation. By the way, in a preseason game with no fans, what does that mean that they were testing to see what the response would be?

Yeah. I don't understand that. Anyway. I don't get it here. What kind of input are they looking for from that? Right. You know, a couple of the guys that were there to turn the lights on and off, you know, a couple of the scorekeepers or the referees of the players, whatever.

What is your reaction to this? Well, the national anthem obviously has become one of the third. rail topics in sports right now because there's no, if you come out in support of the anthem, you're considered a racist in part. There's something wrong with you. Oh, my God, that's an exaggeration. I don't think it is. If you were in support of the anthem, people view you as a racist. I mean, I understand that there are some lyrics in the Star-Spangled banner that have

problematic, but do people actually think that for those that are sitting there singing the national anthem, that they are, you know, doing it in a malicious way, that there's some sort of racist feeling when they sing it? I think there's a segment that does. Okay, well, it's not the segment that you believe that people who voted for Trump are deemed to be racist. I would consider those two situations to be apples and oranges. But go ahead. I just think, like, the anthem, I mean, it's kind of, the whole argument has lost its way. You know, I mean, I think it's okay, and I've said this all along, I'm not going to change my mind about this. I think for some people who were offended by players kneeling for the anthem,

who understood what they were trying to do, who understood their message, and who maybe even agreed with their message that police. brutality, you needed the spotlight shown on it, you know? I still think some of those people can be offended by the method. By saying, all that may be true, but the anthem means something personal to me, too. You know, whether it's a relative who was buried with, you know, with a flag or something like that, I don't think it's an absolute that if you were upset about players kneeling, for the anthem, you're against those players.

You're against what they were trying to do. I mean, that's probably the case, but not everybody is like that. You know, so I think there's a segment of the population that were in the stands who might have been offended by the kneeling, who agreed with the reasons for the kneeling, just didn't like the method, saying, no, this is too important to me for you to mess with. I personally, as far as banning the anthem, I'm not in favor of that because I think for two minutes in between, I always would look around, and I know this is wrong because it doesn't represent everybody the same way. But when an anthem would be played, I'd look around and I'd see a whole group of people that really weren't united by anything.

except for rooting for the team that they were there to see. But for two minutes, they all had a common goal to stand up and represent their country. And I thought for two minutes it was not that big of a sacrifice. So I've never had a problem with the anthem being played. And I'm not saying that players should be punished for kneeling for the anthem. I think, you know, that's not what I'm saying. look, the idea is not to ban the anthem. It's to play the anthem before the players come out.

You know, you just said something, and every once in a while you'll say something in a way that I'll be like, hmm, maybe I have a different view on this. And what you said was those two minutes that, you know, you looked around and, you know, I would add, you know, hats off, hand over heart, standing up, and at a sporting event, sort of looking at a, everybody like, hey, we're all Americans, that kind of a thing. But my position was,

has never changed on this. And it started with obviously Colin Kaepernick. And I said this, the day it happened and became an event and became a news story, I said that his means are going to mask his message. And that's, you know, I think you made a really good distinction there that many people do and did hear and understand what he was kneeling for, but disagreed with the method anyway. I think a lot of people didn't even, couldn't get past the kneeling to even get to the point where they were even open-minded or even wanted to hear why he was doing it. And I think initially my thought was there are just too many people in this country, you know, and many NFL cities in particular that just aren't going to put up with this.

And it damaged the league. The league took a hit because of it in 2017. I'm also just reminded briefly, I thought, and I know we talked about this, I thought when Drew Breeze did that interview in that magazine, the financial magazine, or maybe it was a financial show, when he said that players who kneel are disrespecting America, I thought that was outreacted. outrageously disingenuous on Drew Breeze's part. He was there front and center.

He knew the reason that Colin Kaepernick and others were kneeling. He didn't have to agree with it, but he knew the reason, and he misrepresented the reason that they were kneeling during the anthem. And he knew better. And so I didn't like that at all. But my thing, and I'm looking for it real quickly, because somebody sent me this tweet. Because I talked about it yesterday on the radio show,

and if you'll give me a second. Okay, here it is. This guy, Denny, wrote me and said, I've heard you be very passionate about many things, including things not related to sports. I'm surprised at your lack of passion for Mark Cuban's decision to not play the anthem before his team's games.

And so I'm not passionate about it. this. I can't even fake passion or energy for this issue. Now, what you just described a little while ago that I referred to actually made me think, I have felt that way in standing up before a sporting event when they're playing the anthem about looking around and saying, you know, we're all sort of Americans. We're all here for two minutes, you know, being thankful for, you know, the country that we live in. And maybe not everybody was thinking the same way I was, and they probably weren't, but there was that sense. You know, Sunday morning, Tommy, on

Friday show, I played Whitney Houston's 30 years ago Super Bowl National Anthem, which is just an incredibly moving rendition of the anthem. It was that Buffalo Giant Super Bowl in Tampa that came a week after the Gulf War started,

and it's just amazing that 30 years later the country is so divided when on that day 30 years ago, 1991, the country was so unified. It's an incredible version of it. Marvin Gay is still my favorite version from the 83 NBA All-Star game, but there were several shows on Sunday, the story behind how that came to be. Paul Tagliabu, George Bush, others desperately wanted her, and she wanted to do it. And she, it was a one-take deal, you know, and she was

phenomenal. Anyway, I just kind of feel like, and I've said this, And it's not because I'm not patriotic. And it's not because I'm not appreciative of the country I live in. And I'm not appreciative of all those that helped protect my way of life, you know, in wars that, you know, resulted in being able to live the way we live. I just think that the ritual itself, like, you know, the anthem before a sporting event, just isn't necessary. You know, especially if it's going to result in controversy.

You know, most people, as I said, never see it, never hear it. And, you know, now we have kneeling and other things that are, you know, other ways during this anthem to express political and or social statements. And, you know, I was thinking about this last night. You know, it's going to get flipped. Now if you're standing, well, this was your point initially about, you know, if you stand, you're viewed in a certain way. I don't think that it's quite that harsh, but I think that, you know, people look at people who may stand during the anthem and say, well, you're standing for something that's political or socially.

You're trying to make a statement. What do we need any of this for before a sporting event? I just— I know that, Kevin, but the way—here's what happened. And the NFL is hoisted by their own partard because of this. They turned it into a patriotic show. They turned their pregame presentation years ago into a patriotic show. Well, they're not the only ones.

I mean, for years, huh? They're not, every sport does it. But the NFL were first. They turned into a big patriotic show with the military flyovers and all that. And it became a bigger deal. Okay, they always started playing the anthem when the players were on the field, I think within the last 15 years. Before, I think the players were in the locker room.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They've been in the locker room more recently. They used to be on the field. It used to be much closer to kickoff. I don't know, you might be right. I forget. The bottom line is... No, you know, it doesn't become, it would never have become an issue

if they had just kept it simply as the anthem, without some kind of big patriotic show and leave the players in the locker room where they had been for years. I'll be honest with you. I think that Mark Cuban, that he sort of thought probably, well, I mean, obviously now because there aren't any fans, so it's not a good comparison.

But if the NFL decided starting next year, they weren't going to play the anthem and they didn't even put a press release out about it, it's going to be written about it's going to be noticed but not by most people and most people aren't going to care in Washington it would okay I guess I just don't and look I've been in stadiums where before big games and there's this feeling but it's not it's I don't know I just don't care if it's played or not played and I think if it's going to be controversial then sports shouldn't be the place where it's controversial before a sporting event. Just keep the players in the locker room and then do it. Okay. Well, I mean, you believe a bunch of people will be looking at people standing and thinking that guy's a racist.

I think most people in the crowd could care less. That's my point. That's my point. I think most people in the crowd could care less anyway. You know, that's why during the anthem, before a big game, you hear people, you know, screaming out, fuck Duke! You know? Or killing. The practice of players out on the field for the anthem started in 2009.

So you're telling me that in the 70s and the 80s, players weren't out there for the anthem. I think they were. Not according to this story about what the NFL. NFL said. NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning that the practice began in 2009. Okay. What was your, did you get a reaction to your

Marty column? It was really good. Did you get a reaction to it? Well, thank you. Yes, I did. I got a lot of, a lot of likes, a lot of feedback. Again, more on Facebook than on Twitter. Oh, boy. Okay. I mean, the traffic and attention I'm getting on Facebook, something's changed.

I don't know if it's an algorithm change or something, because unlike Twitter, all your followers on Facebook don't necessarily see what you post. Okay. You know, there's some kind of formula for it. But something has changed, and I'm getting a lot more traffic and input on Facebook. Okay. What was the reaction? The reaction was very positive.

And one of her reactions was, I'm glad you didn't call a Varro Arrington. Why? Well, because apparently he went off on Instagram and pissed all over the team for the way they treated Marty, but made it about himself. Oh, really? Like I said, Blowheart.

I reached out to him. He never got back to me. You know, he never wanted to do really anything with anybody from our station, which is fine. But what did he – what did he piss all over the team for? I don't know. For firing. I don't know the details. I want to go watch this now.

Yeah, I'm sure – yes, I'm sure that's what it was. But like I said, I'm sure he made it about him as much as anything. Okay. You know, because – look, I – you know, it's ironic. when LeVar got drafted, I went up to Pennsylvania and did a story on him, and I was in his house. And I spent time with him and his family in his house. Couldn't have been nicer to me. His family was absolutely wonderful.

It's a family of educators, right, teachers? Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I was very impressed with him and his family. And I was very high on LeVar coming out of... I thought he was just such a tremendous, such a tremendous. I thought he could have played fullback in the NFL. That's how talented, I thought he was. But, you know, I just, I mean, I called two players. You know, I wound up getting in touch with two players, Sam Fade and David,

Terrell. You told us about it the other day. David Terrell. Right. And they wanted to talk about Marty, not about them. Yeah. Yeah, you know, the last thought I have on him is that, you know, we were here on the air the day that he died. We did this on Tuesday, right?

He died on Tuesday. And so we already sort of spent a lot of time talking about him. But the one thing that I noticed in reading a lot of things about him, and then I watched his football life special again, which is actually excellent. He's the example, Tommy, of a coach's coach. Like you made the point about how the media didn't like him, about how the post didn't like him. And, you know, I mentioned, I remember listening to Andy and Steve. They were my favorite show on Sports Talk Radio.

I wasn't working in media at that point. And I remember they couldn't stand him. And, you know, I think he, if you read through the Tony Dungies and the various contemporary coaches and even coaches today, there's a respect for him. him and the way he did it. And the way he, like, there are just very few guys now that did it his way, which was as an authoritarian, but a very likable one with his players. Like he, his players loved him. He was very loving and very caring as a human being, both in his private life and with

his players. But I just, I sat there and read a lot of different things that people said. And I'm like, you know, this is a guy, his 200 wins, only six people with. more wins. This is a guy that coaches know more than anybody else was a great coach. And they don't care about his postseason record because they know how hard it is to win 14 games, 13 games, 13 games. His regular season consistency and outrageous success, you know, 11 seasons of double-digit wins, how incredibly accomplished that is. And there's also a recognition of just, incredible, you know, bad luck in the postseason, whether it was the drive or the fumble or,

you know, the Lynn Elliott missed field goals against the Colts or the misfield goal by Nate Cating or the Marlon McCree interception and fumble it back to the Patriots and Brady beats him. It was just such, like, to me, one Super Bowl, just one Super Bowl, he would have been, he would have been a first ballot, Locke Hall of Fame or maybe not first ballot, but he would have been in the Hall of Fame 15 years ago. He would have been had he just gotten one. Yes. But he didn't.

No. Anyway. All right. Anything else? I got nothing else, boss. I'll leave you with this. This from the Washington Wizards head coach. His name is Scott Brooks.

They got beat last night, 137 to 115. A game in which Toronto made 19, Tommy, 19 of 32 from beyond the ark. They shot 59.4% from behind the arc made 193 pointers in the game. And the Wizards once again got absolutely blown out, giving up just too many points. And Scott Brooks said after the game, quote, they were 19 for 32. That's tough to do in an open gym, closed quote. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

If you got somebody just feeding you shooting three-pointers and you should, shoot 32 of them, but you're moving. It's not, it's not just standing there shooting them, but it's an open gym and you're moving around. You're probably not going to make 19 to 32, even if you're a really good shooter. That's unbelievable. That is unbelievable how bad they are. They're a terrible team. That's not a healthy attitude. I know. I know. It isn't. This is a healthy attitude. This is what Ted Leones is who owns the team, by the way, tweeted two days ago.

I guess when they won. They won the game before this one, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, they had a big one-game winning streak. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is Ted's tweet. Great team win.

Led by 35 points from NBA All-Star, Real Deal, B.O. 23. Washington Wizards are getting healthy and are three in three in the last six games and finish two and two on this road trip. Next game back at Capital One Arena tomorrow against the Raptors. They're so bad to watch on D. defense. It's just unbelievable. Here's another quote, by the way, from Beale after the game about the three-point shooting. It's frustrating because we were in the game. We were right there in the game. And then all of the sudden, we're down 10, we're down 15. We couldn't guard the three-point line. And they were just lining them up, close quote. Get in line, shoot your three-pointer. If you make it, you get a stuffed animal. Here we go. No defense.

and we've actually we shrunk the rim a little bit. I always did well in those shooting things at the beach in various places for the boys and always was able to produce enough to hand it to him. Once you get in the rhythm, even those rims, the actual circumference, if you will, is probably a little bit shorter.

It's got to be perfect, but if you throw it up there soft enough, it'll roll around and go in. All right, we're done for the day. I'm back tomorrow, and I don't know what we're doing tomorrow. We'll figure it out, though, between now and then. All right, Tommy, thanks. Okay, boss. Bye.

Okay, then. Back tomorrow.