The Kevin Sheehan Show - If Redskins Build It...Will They Come?

Episode Date: November 15, 2018

Most people agree that the Redskins' fan base has eroded over the years and most also agree on the primary reasons for it. Thom and Kevin discuss what's next. What if the Redskins turn into a perennial contender....will those that have left, come back? Thom and Kevin also talk about the Wizards, Jacob deGrom winning the Cy Young and the latest in the Maryland saga. Plus, NFL Power Poll and some follow up to the Skins' name discussion from yesterday. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yeah, it's a Sports Fix Thursday. That's right. Had my good friend Bobby out in L.A. And Bobby, we hope you're doing well with the fires out there. He's, you know, close to the fire areas. And Bobby's been a longtime listener. Absolutely. From L.A. And we appreciate his support. Bobby says he's getting sick of that open. Not the sports. Sports fix part of the open, the regular open. You know, Mark Stern said the first week, he goes, look, this podcast thing, you are going to get suggestions from everybody, and everybody's going to be an expert on this thing. You know, from, you know, how you're segueing from one thing to another, the sounders, the audio.

And we did start with new mics yesterday. We've got new mics. And I said to Aaron, I think there's not enough bass in these mics, but it shouldn't be the mic that controls the base. Are we working on that? Yeah, I'm playing around with the controls. You know why people are willing to speak up about things like that because they know they're talking to the boss.

I mean, on radio, they figure there's a couple of levels above you, just like every place you work where you've got, you know, there's some things beyond your control. When they talk back to you, they're talking to the boss. I think that's true. And I, I'm one of those people telling me that typically, you know, has an idea and I just want to go with it and I won't be deterred. But I will say in this new medium, there have been people that have reached out with ideas that have made total sense. People who have done this kind of thing before that are fans of you and fans of me from radio stuff and they really are trying to help.

So it really is appreciated. And I'm being sincere about that. I will tell you one thing that I've gotten overwhelmingly as feedback. Every time we've tried to do the calls, and I've said, and it's true, that I miss that part of radio taking calls, overwhelmingly people have said, don't do the calls. We don't want the call. We don't want the callers. And I'm like, what about the good callers?

I mean, we can edit out the bad calls. Because don't you feel, Tommy, and we used to say this, that we had really good callers on the show. What are you looking at me like that for? As far as, no, it's like, we had really good callers. In a way, that's like saying we had the best roaches in town. That's not fair. But I mean, look, they're callers.

What are you talking about? So, seriously. Anti-call-out over here. Tommy's the one. He tries to make me out to be the one, but he's the one. And the truth is, I think, that if you have the right callers on the right day, on the right topic, it adds to the overall listenability of the show. That's one way to go. All right.

Whatever. That's Tommy, of course. Aaron's here. By the way, I got here. And, I mean, I sat in the parking lot outside here for about 45 minutes before I finally went in the safeway and got my crumb cake and milk. And I brought you some breakfast this morning, too. Yes, you did. I'm going to save it for a brunch.

Okay. At this point, that's very kind of you. I don't know what possessed you to do that, but that's very nice of you. Well, I did. But the fact, maybe because you felt like I'd be so pissed off having driven in the snow from Frederick. And I left an hour earlier than I normally would. I left an hour early anticipation of bad weather, traffic jams, accidents, and it snowed the whole way down from Frederick. Real snow.

Oh, yeah, it was real snow this morning. Yeah. It wasn't fake snow. No, it was the shortest commute I've had yet. I was here in an hour and 10 minutes. I saw you tweet that out, and I had already made plans to stop by this wonderful bakery downstairs to get you a ham and cheese croissant because I've brought that to you before. Yes, you have. You said you enjoyed it because I was concerned that it was going to be angry Tommy here this morning.

And the other part I thought you were going to say is you didn't even reach out to me to see if the driving was going to be an issue. You just assumed that I'd be here. And yeah, I did because. Well, no, you post hell or high water. Always have. Always do. But you have too. Yeah, I know.

I think you're more willing to take chance. It's not, look it. The first Super Bowl we did together in Miami was we were down there when the big snowstorm hit here. It was February 09, February 09 or 10. Yeah. And you left on a Friday right after we did the show, you had me drive you to the airport. I mean, rather than the rest of us who stayed until like Monday because of the bad weather that was coming, Friday, it's already snowing up north. and you're determined to get you want to be back home for this for this event i did want to be

so you know it's a big one i mean i i like mario and dredi you to the airport you did uh you get on the plane you can only fly to richmond you couldn't fly into washington good memory you fly in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a blizzard and you drive from richmond to but that's it just so you could be just so you could be home for this well let me just say this because you remember it very well. It was a fun week in South Florida. You had a lot of friends down there at various establishments, as I recall, that were very familiar with. Tom's back. It was in Fort Lauderdale and other places that we went to that we didn't have to wait in any line and weren't charged covers. We didn't have to pay a cover

charge to get in because they knew Tommy pretty well. But the best part of that was do you remember member our fearless leader. And let's just say a bit limited when it came to sports talk radio. It doesn't make them different than any other program director. Who is the PD at the time? And he said, ah, it's not going to be anything. We'll be fine. And I just, and I said to him.

And Zab said the same thing. We both said to him on Thursday, look, this is the real deal. You're not going to get back on Monday if you don't have somebody go back on Friday. and it's the Monday after Super Bowl. Yes. And it would be nice to have programming on Monday. And Zabe and I both said to this guy, look, he's like, no, no, it's fine. It's not going to be anything.

And I just looked at him. I go, what do you mean it's not going to be anything? How do you know? And I said, let me show you something. Of course, I had the forecast and holding. And I said, trust me, if somebody doesn't go back early Friday after their show. And you and I had a midday show. Right.

Then you're going to have no programming on Monday, unless radio. row will be open, which it wasn't going to be. Right. For Monday. And he said, no, no, no. So I just decided I didn't want to miss the storm. You're right about that. I didn't want to miss the storm.

Because you knew this was going to be a big event. It was two feet. Yes. And so I was the only one there on Monday. And I remember thinking to myself, well, really? You want me to come in and do all day by myself? I'll do our show. But what happened was Tony wasn't there.

We ran syndicated programming all morning, and then I came in at 10 and did the rest of the day. But you made it in. I flew back. I flew back on Monday. Yeah, and you made it in by afternoon. I flew back on Monday morning. And our fearless program director. Didn't get back to Wednesday.

I was wondering, you know, because I said, we said to him, you know, I need a cab to take me to the radio station. get on the air. And they thought that that was a little bit much. So they didn't want to do that. Yeah, because Kevin's there. He can do it by himself all day. So we convinced him what a foolish idea that was. So I took a cab from BWI to Rockville to get there in what was, you know, piles of snow everywhere to have to get it. And you and me like did about five hours that you had already been on the air for a couple of hours. Was that the day that we ended up talking to Andy when he got back to BWI? But was that? Is it that day or the next day?

No, he got back later that day. Yeah. He got back late the afternoon. He couldn't find his car in the parking lot. He was buried. And we caught it on air live because he was on his phone and he says, oh my God. Yeah. This show is presented by Window Nation.

If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them we told you to call. That was, those were fun days. Those are fun days. And the Super Bowl trips were always fun. until they started to just send one per show. Yeah. And Tommy demanded to go or where he wasn't going to. I didn't demand to go to Indianapolis.

You did demand. Not to go to Indianapolis. You begged out of that. That's because I wanted San Francisco. Well, I mean. Which was the next year, right? No, the next year was New Orleans. Oh, that's right.

You got New Orleans and I got San Francisco. None of us wanted Indianapolis. No offense. But which actually turned out to be a pretty good time. I know. You told me that. I remember that. By the way.

It's too early for this weather. I love winter weather, as you know, and I love snowstorms. We had no, we even had fall. No fall. Where's the fall? Yeah. It's my favorite time of year, actually, this time of year, when you get 50s to 60s, and the trees are pretty, the leaves.

The crisp air. And we just went from summer to winter. Yeah. Well, we went from spring to summer. I mean, we went from winter to summer. I mean, I think somebody has eliminated fall and spring. It fall can be so pretty around here, and we really didn't have it this year. And I was looking at the extended forecast.

It's going to be cold, basically, for the next few weeks. Yeah. I mean, maybe up to 50, but whatever. It's supposed to be nice on Thanksgiving, which is a week from today. A week from today, Redskins, Cowboys, Turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, rolls, pumpkin pie, all the stuff you don't necessarily like, but I love. And the Redskins already in the look-ahead line

are four and a half point underdogs against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day. Now, how much, is it three points of that home field? Yes. Okay. And I'm shocked at this narrative that the Cowboys who suffer from the same disease that the Redskins have, the R of self-destruction. True. Except the Redskins

have managed to put a cloaking device over Redskins Park this year to keep it away for the most part. This narrative now that the Cowboys are back on track and that they're going to roll to the NFCE's title, this is a self-destructive team. You can't count on the Cowboys for one week to the next, but there's this storyline out there that they're now the NFC East favorites. Well, they're not the favorites. The Redskins are the favorites right now.

I have said here the last couple of days that because Philadelphia's schedule, sets up where they're going to have eight losses. We talked about this the other day. The Cowboys are more of a threat, but I mean, but that they are not. They have more of a chance to be in contention. Just, look, if they went to, now they're injured. They came out of that Philadelphia game with some injuries on defense

where they've been very good defensively. So they go to Atlanta. If they were to win in Atlanta and the Redskins were to lose at home to Houston, you then have a six and four versus five and five matchup for first place on Thanksgiving Day. Then you have a conversation, but not now. Okay, I'm just the look-ahead line, which you can wager on in many places, the Cowboys are four and a half point favorites. Houston is a three-point favorite at FedEx on Sunday.

But I get that. I don't. I thought it was going to be a pick. I actually thought the Redskins, I was dead wrong on this, and you know I usually get point spreads right. They were, I had it as. as pick maybe the Redskins even minus one at home against Houston. But Houston's getting a lot of ton of respect.

But beyond that, it is definitely a reflection of the odds makers not believing at all in the Redskins 6 and 3 mark. That's what it is. Yeah. And I would think in particular the offensive side of the ball facing a Houston defense that could make Alex Smith look 44 years old instead of 34. All right, a couple of things I wanted to get to before we get to a Redskin segment that you and I were talking about before the show. First of all, the Wizards won. They've won three in a row. They pounded Cleveland last night.

That's what you got to do. You got to beat bad teams and you got to beat them like that. Look, I'll grant you that they had a rough early schedule having to go on the West Coast because of the horse show that Ted books at his arena every year, you know, Capital One Arena there. And the Wizards are not as bad as a two-and-eight team. They are a seventh, eighth seed, 41, 42-43-win team. They are not a two-and-eight team. So they're going to find their level at some point. Legler said on this show yesterday that this is crucial,

that they have to be Cleveland, Brooklyn. They've got to make the most of this home stand or it's over. Like this early in the season, that if they went from, you know, 4-9, this easy homestand, right? It's Orlando, Cleveland, Brooklyn. Portland's good. They've already beat Portland. The clippers are improved, all at home.

This five-game homestand, it's like they've got to make hay right now and push their way back to close to 500 because if they don't do it here, they'll never get it together. Look, Cleveland's terrible. Yeah, they're horrible. And Orlando, actually, I think Orlando bounced back with a win last night. I think they beat the 76ers. That's who Butler debuted again.

right last night yeah the magic uh so the wizards won the caps lost brayden holpey didn't play look the caps just didn't lose they got beat up i mean not only holtby didn't play but uh tj oshy took a real bad hit at at the end of of the game uh and this is like the second one he's taken so far this year uh and i think kuznetsoff was was out with with a head uh shot as well so right now i mean It's a good thing they got Tom Wilson back, and they won the first game that he came back. But they came out pretty beaten physically at that game, and that's something to be worried about. I wanted to mention that, as predicted, Jake DeGrom won the Cy Young. Right. Shurzer 29 of the 30 first place votes, so not very close.

No, but I mean, I have no problem if people voted for Max Scherzer. Max Scherzer, I still value wins because you have to be on the mound to get the decisions to win games. You have to be a – now, DeGrom had an outlier season, a very unusual season, given all his numbers in every other way, shape, or form. I don't think this is a trend or the shape of things to come. I don't think you're going to have a lot of 10 win pitchers winning the Siong Award in the future, no matter how good their numbers are. A couple of other things real quickly. Maryland hired a search firm to look for their new head coach. I'm just going to tell you right now, if it were me, I wouldn't be hiring a search firm.

Where did you get the money for that? I don't, you know, I'm sure they negotiated some sort of favorable fee there, perhaps not. Did you see the other bit of Maryland news as well? Oh, yes. Apparently, DJ Durkin had been coordinating with assistant coaches while he was supposed to be away from the team. And supposedly Damon Evans might have been okay with that, known about him been okay with that. The athletic director, who's still there, by the way, who's the guy who is undergoing this search for the new coach.

Let the old coach, who was supposedly persona Nongrata there, even though they were paying him, call the shots from his living room about the way the football team was going to be run. How that athletic, how Damon Evans still has a job is absurd. I can't believe I miss that. They can't get in trouble for that because that's not any sort of violation. school had put him on suspension. It was a school saying, but it's another

bad look for a school that can't afford any more bad looks. So I have heard recently that Mike Loxley is the favorite for a lot of the people out in College Park. And I don't know Mike, I know a lot of

people that know him well on everybody to a person. They love him. They love Mike Loxley and people in this area love Mike Loxley and he is a phenomenal recruiter. I just don't know how that background check with what happened at New Mexico works, where you've got a couple of incidents with Loxley and you've got to hire somebody

with a spotless resume. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with Loxley as a Maryland guy because I know that he would keep players here despite all of the recent stuff that's happened. which is huge, he would recruit well. I would hope that he would find really good coordinators to help him. Now, he's good enough for Nick Sabin. All right, he's good enough for Nick Sabin, so he should be good enough for Maryland. Personally, though, Tommy, I would be thinking about some sort of, like, less miles higher.

Like, hire less miles. Bring some juice into the program. Less Miles wasn't a great coach at LSU, but he's a big name and he'll bring some color to the program, some real, you know, entertainment value. If they had hired Leach in 2010 after Ralph, this would be a completely different program right now. No doubt about it. Maryland football would be so relevant.

Just look where Washington State is right now. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, but Kevin, I think. But Les Miles isn't Leach. Just I'm not suggesting that. Like Leach is a true offensive, you know, guru. Yes.

Yeah, Les Miles is only, I don't know what he's a guru of other than. recruiting. I think that whoever the Maryland coach is, they have to be smart enough to recognize what happened here. Now, that sounds simple, but it's not. I mean, you know, there's a lot of people in the business of football who live in a cocoon who really quite won't be able to grasp what happened here at Maryland. They need to hire a coach who understands what happened here and what's the challenge

You need to hire athletic director and a president too. This is why the search firm to me makes little sense right now. Don't you need the president, whomever that's going to be? And I'm not saying you have to wait until you replace Wallace Lowe before you hire a football coach. But on some level, what you really want is school president, athletic director, and head coach all to be in it together. That the school president and the athletic director all signed off on this new coach. and that can't happen because the new school president won't be in when the football coach, the new football coach is hired. And I don't know what the decision on Damon Evans is.

I have no idea what the timeline on that AD position is. It's really, it's an awkward time for Maryland football. That is for sure. At the same time, I can't believe that they're only a 14-point underdog to Ohio State. That makes no sense to me. Not just 14 right now. So opened at 17, dropped to 14. Dropped to 14.

I'm going to tell you right now, Aaron, I think we talked about this yesterday. It is a reflection of what the books think of Ohio State. Nobody thinks Ohio State's very good. It's why already Michigan's a four-point look-ahead favorite to next week in Columbus. That game is in Columbus. I don't personally, and I've said this multiple times on this podcast this year, I haven't been impressed with Ohio State. Their skill position players are outstanding.

The quarterback, though, is not there yet. And the defense has been moved on by some teams. Marilyn's not going to win that game. No. But 27 to 14, a cover? If they can hold them to 27. One last thing from me about Maryland. You think that, you know, going ahead with the search committee seems a little bit strange.

Not if you're Damon Evans and you're trying to entrench yourself still there. You're trying to solidify the shaky position you have. If you're Damon Evans, you want to move forward, you know, be aggressive, keep moving forward, keep putting out this image to the board of regions that I'm on top of this. I mean, I'm valuable to you. I'm the guy in charge of this search committee. You can't let me go because we're in too deep now in moving forward and I'm the guy moving us forward. There's one person, one person right now that I would trust to sort of take this bull by the horn and run it. and that's Gary Williams, nobody else.

And if Gary were in charge, he knows the school, he knows what the football program needs. He knows the kind of athletic director that the school needs. And the search firm thing, Tommy, it's like I've been in that position of using search firms before. Ultimately, they don't know your place and what that position needs more than you do. In this particular instance,

I want the person that understands the school, understands the program, understands what just went on, and understands the kind of person that you have to bring in here, not just the person which you've sort of hit on, but the kind of coach you have to have at Maryland to be successful. Because there are only three periods in Maryland football that have been successful. And all three were highlighted by a true X's and O's coach, a guy that got more, out of less. And that's what Maryland's always needed. It's not a recruiting game. Yeah, you've got to try to recruit, and Durkin recruited well. Ralph had a couple of classes, but ultimately you're going to have to be one of those teams like Iowa State, where Matt Campbell is, getting more out of less. Like I look at

Iowa State and the Big 12. They don't have the same level of athlete to Texas and Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and West Virginia and even TCU has or have, but they are getting more out of less. That's what Maryland has been when they've been good. It's like, really, how did they just go nine and three? They don't have big offensive linemen. They don't have great. It's because they were scheming their way to nine and three.

That's what you need at Maryland. I wanted to mention two other things real quickly before we get to the Redskins topic. Zion Williamson at Duke put on a dunk show last night that is getting a lot of run as it should. There's one particular dunk where his head is level with the rim. And what makes this, not that we haven't seen guys with that kind of athletic ability, but it's his build. It's the fact that he's carrying around 285, 290 pounds at 6-7 that makes it really unique. I watch him, and

look, Duke played Kentucky. I want to see him through an ACC season. You know, we've seen this sort of before where you think a team is never going to lose. There's so much better than everybody else. They'll lose somewhere along the way this year. But I can't believe that he isn't clearly the number one mock draft player. And R.J. Barrett is in every mock draft that I've looked at. Well, we talked about this before the show. There's NBA experts who will say, well, what position is he going to play in the NBA? Which, I mean, you and I both agree. It's not NBA experts. It's people who don't know basketball that have turned themselves into so-called experts. No one that really knows basketball looks at Zion Williamson and says, I don't think.

There's not a place for him in the NBA. I can't figure out what position he'll play. Yeah. That nobody that really understands basketball thinks that way. And Tommy, the truth of the matter is like the whole position thing, there are so many teams now that basically play with four to five interchangeable parts anyway. Yeah. I mean, here's the question you need to ask yourself, who's going to stop them?

Yeah. That's the question. Should the Wizards tank the rest of the season to try to get him? By the way, just for a little bit of fun, brief a little bit of fun. Bring back all times. Who wins between Duke and the Wizards? It's not the Wizards that you would compare him to. It would be like the Cavaliers.

No, I'm saying the Wizards. Well, the Wizards would kill him. Okay. You know what, Tommy? I think they did a Vegas person did. No, no, no, no. they did it for basketball as well, and I think it was 22, was for the Cavs. The Caves would be a 22-point favorite.

Yes. Because somebody sent me the lines of what Alabama would be versus various teams, and I think against the Rams, they'd be like a 30-point underdog, or the Chiefs they'd be like a 30-point underdog. Vegas would make them. I mean, that's the difference in football. You know, basketball, there's a big difference, too. You know, the NBA men, the teams that win usually have men.

men like veteran players and veteran presence. I get that. I get that. It's just that we had a lot of fun with that years ago. What was it that we did? We asked Gary Williams when Kentucky was really good. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was Kentucky in the Wizards. And Gary said,

Gary said under the right circumstances in a neutral court, if everything went right, he really qualified it. He said Kentucky might win. And it just. I don't remember that. Oh, and it, you know what? Calapari got asked that question at the final four. Yeah.

About the Wizards specifically. I mean, that generated a lot of attention. Well, remember, there was a moment there where you were convinced that Calipari was going to be the next Wizards coach. Yes, and I've been very wrong about that. So the last thing I wanted to mention real quickly before we get to the Redskins, and it's not real quickly anymore, because we're dragging on here. But I saw the Queen movie on Monday, on Tuesday night. It's Thursday on Tuesday night.

you have interest in seeing that movie. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It was excellent. Okay. So good, Tommy. I mean, you love that era of music too. But it's really the story of Freddie Mercury, more than it is even the story of the band itself. But it was well done.

And the guy, Rami Malik, I think is his name. He was the guy in the Pacific. You watched, after Band of Brothers, you watched the Pacific, too, right? So he was in that, and he was excellent in the Pacific. He's been in other things, too. He nailed it. I mean, nailed it. And it ends with what many people for many years have said

is one of the greatest live rock and roll performances of all time, which was Queen at Live Aid in 1985. And some of the backstory to that, I didn't know, which was the band had been broken up shortly before that. Freddie Mercury went out on his own and got an offer to go out on his own and how he sort of was presented with that offer with management and this one close friend and lover actually at the time who was very deceitful and a bad influence on his life. Basically the band had been broken up and so he didn't even know about it wasn't told about it by various people who did know

but found out about it late went back got together with the band and they were the last ad by Bob Geldof on that thing. He basically found a spot for him. Thankfully, because it really is. I went back when I got back from the movie and watched it because that performance is on YouTube, and they nailed it in the movie,

but it really, what a performer and what a voice. What a voice, what a voice he had. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, you need to go see it, but you had told me something. Well, there's a commercial that's gone viral.

I don't even know who it's for. Uh, what, it's one of those commercials where they tell you at the end, uh, who it's for. And I, it's not like a gene company or a car company or anything like that. It's Elton John, uh, basically. And, uh, a lot of scenes of him over the years. And then also pictures of a little kid, uh, about people playing the piano at home. Kids playing the piano at home and a little kid. Well, what's the company?

You don't, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's John Lewis and Partners, which is a, UK company. There you go. What do they do? You see they they they're just a story. It's homeware, furniture, and fashion. There you go. What did he get paid to do it? According to this, the commercial costs $6.5 million. And you know what? Kevin, you watch it. Well, you and I are both Elton John fans. Yeah. And there's a movie Rocket Man that comes out in the summer because the trailer was on before the Queen movie. But this commercial is emotional. Very, very, very, very Well done. All right. Let me tell you quickly about Window Nation. Wind Donation likes this podcast. Harley, Aaron, Eric, they listen all the time. If you've been thinking about new windows and your furnace keeps kicking on and off over and over again, I promise you, as someone who has had Windonation install windows in my home, you can't go wrong by giving them a call. If you are hearing that furnace working hard to heat your home, it's because your windows are old and drafty and they're letting cold air in and hot air out. That means higher energy builds. wasted money. It's time to pick up the phone and call Wind Donation.

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energy bills. Use for holiday shopping this season. Call 86690 Nation or visitwindonation.com and tell them we told you to call. All right, Tommy, this is what I wanted to talk to you about. because I was thinking about this yesterday after the show, and that is all of the discussion about the erosion of the fan base and the reasons for it. And we've talked all week about the reasons for why, and everybody agrees. First of all, everybody agrees that the fan base, to a certain extent,

is less than it used to be. And everybody agrees that it has to do with losing the owner, the stadium, and other things, maybe even the name. I'm going to get to that a little bit later on because I want to respond to, is something many of you said after the podcast yesterday. But everybody agrees that it's true. The fan base has eroded to a certain degree in numbers and in passion.

So that conversation to me is like, okay, we've had it. What I wanted to ask you and what I wanted to talk about is, so what's next? Like, is there now a perceived limitation on what the fan base could be? Like what, where does this go from here? And, and they're two, to me, there are two big sort of possibilities that will drive the answer to it, right? They either become a winner and we'll see what happens if they start to win and become a perennial contender. And, you know, is there still a limitation if they win big? I want to have that conversation.

And then I think the easier conversation is if the status quo continued, the mediocrity, the bad seasons, dysfunctional seasons, we know what will happen at that point. It'll go lower and lower, more likely than not. Right. Right? Yes. So that conversation we just had. If the status quo continues where they have mediocre seasons and bad seasons and dysfunction

and embarrassment and, well, it's just going to keep getting worse. Even, you know, to be honest with you, even a new stadium in the right location downtown with beautiful retail around it. That would be a short fleeting increase in interest year one, year two. But without the winning, and if the bad and the mediocre and the dysfunction continues, it's not going up, it's going down. My question really focuses in on, is there now a limitation? Do we believe that there's a limitation even if they become a contender?

What if the next few years were all playoff seasons and playoff games won. And this was the beginning of, say, a three or four year run that they kept, it was an upward trajectory, and they won a playoff game this year, and next year they won 12 games and became, it had a home field game with a first round by and got to the NFC championship game. And then the year after that, they came back as a legitimate Super Bowl contender. What if we had that arc in terms of the team's performance. Is everybody back in? Did you come up with this yourself?

No. Oh, because this is pretty good. You know, that's a pretty good way to look at this. I figured you had some help. No, I, oh, really? No, actually, I came up with it by myself. I did, all right? Okay.

I mean, every once in a while, I mean, after, you know, seven and a half years together, every once in a while I came up with a good idea. It's complicated for a number of reasons. Let's start from the outside in. Live sporting events are not what they used to be. So you're automatically bucking a trend now that live sporting events attendance is down. It's down in college football.

It's down in baseball. I don't know what the basketball figures are. But generally, NASCAR is down. Live sporting events are now. Attendance at live sporting events. Attendance at live sporting events, not television. I mean attendance. So you're bucking that.

So, I mean, to get back to where the Redskins were, live sports attendance is not what it used to be. So you're already bucking that as a situation as well. Here in town, when the Redskins were really good and even when they were at FedEx Field and still filling the place up, you didn't have a baseball team. team in town. Okay. And that's competition for sponsorship, competition for advertising, competition for media attention. That's competition that didn't exist for them before in the last go-round when the Redskins were a big deal. So they've got to deal with more competition for everything to rebuild their fan base again. The capitals have a stronger fan base now probably than ever before armed with the Stanley Cup.

It's just my feeling, my instinct is those people who were downtown, you know, the 60, 70,000 people at the watch parties downtown, they're not going to Redskins games. I don't think that group is. And I think part of the reason all the suits were imported at Redskins Park is to try to get those people back, you know, or get them into the stadium. So you're dealing with a stronger Capitals fan base, even if it's a sliver, it's still stronger than it was. And God only knows if the Wizards happen

to luck into something. I'm not even going to bring that up. So you've got a baseball team that didn't exist. You've got live sports attendance that's down. Both of those things make it more difficult to climb back. The new stadium, they need to move on that like yesterday. They need to get that

ball rolling. They need to generate that thing quickly because I think that will have a big impact. And if you're right, if they start an upward trajectory, that's when you want to do it when you're opening up a new stadium. That will help, but you're right. That could be short-lived based on if they're losing the first two, three years of the new stadium,

that new car smell will wear off. I don't think it can get back to where it was. I think it can get a lot better than what it is. But I don't think it'll ever get back because the whole landscape has changed. What about just the thing that we know? and that is that the NFL is king, and that in almost any city, if you have a winning NFL franchise,

there's going to be a huge, at the very least, bandwagon effect, that people are going to be all over it. You know, these big games, 16 of them, and then the postseason, that you're going to have a large bandwagon, even if that's not like a sustainable, sort of generational, you know, movement.

I'm just telling you that the landscape has changed since the last time they were. were like that. No doubt. The landscapes change just from a demographic standpoint in this city. I mean, we're a much younger city. So, I mean, I just don't know, even with the NFL being king, and of course it's king, the crown may not be as big as it used to be for this team. All right.

So, I mean, I'm trying to envision, you know, a playoff year this year, they win a game at home against Chicago, and then they lose in Los Angeles against the Rams. And then next year they get off to another really good start. They're 8 and 2 instead of 7 and 3 or 6 and 4, and they're in first place, and it looks like they're on their way to a second straight division title, and the offense is better, and they get into the playoffs, and they're one of the favorite.

I have a hard time believing that it would not completely overtake this city if it gets to that point. But at the same time, I am very interested to see what we learn from this season down the stretch, if they continue to win games. What if they get to 11 wins? Is this town going to be pumped up about a playoff game at FedEx Field in January, the first weekend in January?

I know what you're saying about the other teams, but there are other cities where when the NFL team does well, there are other teams there too, and it overtakes the city at least in brief. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about can the Redskins get back to where they were, not whether the Redskins can be a big deal? Do you think they're not number one in this town now right now?

No, I still think they're number one. Yeah. I still think they're number one. But can they ever get back to where they were? I don't think so. Well, I mean, what you describe is, I mean, by definition, they can't because they're more teams. But they can still be a very big thing, a phenomenon that captures a lot of the city based on what you just said. Do you know what I think really is a factor in all of this, especially with younger sports fans, is having a,

star player. You know, if Robert Griffin the third had been what we thought he may have been on the verge of becoming in 2012, and he had been in the midst of this five, six, seven year run at this point of being an MVP candidate every once in a while and leading the Redskins to the postseason, think about that and what the team would be right now in this town. Oh, yeah. It would be a runaway freight train in my view. No, it would. It would. Absolutely. I think having a But think about that. Since 2012, since that year,

later that year, the nationals have been to four postseason games. The capitals have won a Stanley Cup. So they've lost the last six years. I understand that. But, but, you know,

the fact that the Nats are good and have been good and the Caps just won a Stanley Cup doesn't mean that you can't have the Redskins be a runaway freight train train still in town and people support. and be passionate about multiple teams in town.

It's just not going to be as fast as it used to be. And here's the other thing. You talk about the star situation. Answer that part of it. Do you think that's important? I think it is important. Particularly, you know, and this isn't anything new. I went back and looked at this.

You know, there's this argument that the Redskins are six and three, but they're winning in a boring way. They're winning with defense. The offense is a very fun to watch. They're kind of a one-sided team. Okay. The sellout streak that the Redskins touted for years, it started at the end of the 1966 season.

It was Otto Graham's first year as head coach. They had gone through nine straight losing seasons. They went seven and seven in 66. The sellout street continued through 67, a losing season. But it was because of Jurgensen in the offense. This is my point. In 68, the sellout street continued losing season, but people showed up to watch Sunny wing it,

to watch Sunny throw the ball down the field to Charlie Taylor, you know, Jerry Smith and part Bobby Mitchell, and they filled that stadium with a losing team when they could only do one thing. They could only play one side of the ball. I mean, Redskins players used to say we'd give up, we'd score 30 points and give up 35. but they filled the stadium.

So there's something to this notion that, and this is nothing new, this isn't like a millennial thing, people will show up for offense. They might not show up for defense. Yeah, I mean, look, I get it. I understand that. And then came the winning with George Allen in the true era of outsized passion and following for this team. I get that. But the sellout streak started with a losing, I think.

an exciting losing team. That's fine, but it didn't stop when they won with defense and no offense. No, it did. With George Allen. No, it didn't. And, you know, you look at the Gibbs years, not all of those years were super exciting. A lot of those years were sort of what we've watched here, not to this extent, but a lot of just smart football and letting the other team lose and winning the turnover battle and running

the football and stopping the run, you know, and all that stuff. And I just might want to point out, not that the Washington Center is. or anything to write home about. But George Allen arrived when his senators left town. You know, there was a time where Washington had... But I mean, nobody was going to the senators' case. I know that. But still, I'm just pointing out...

Have you ever seen those attendance numbers? Yes, I know. Like $500,000 a year, something like that, half a million. But the fact is that he arrived after baseball left. My point, there was a time where Buffalo had three sports franchises. The Sabres, the Braves, and the... and the bills, and Washington had won, the Redskins. And it was then until the bullets moved down to Landover to start playing.

So, I mean, I know it really took off under George now. My point is that if this team was losing and scoring a lot of points, there'd probably be more people in the stance. Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, they were mediocre in the last, in 2016, they were a dynamic offensive football team, but they were in a playoff race too. Actually, just real quickly, you probably know this, and I don't know the answer. I have it. I think I know one of the potential answers. I know that the senators were bad. And Ted Williams, when he came, they actually, you know, approached. They won 86 games.

86 games. Why was the attendance for baseball? Why was D.C. in the 60s and then into, you know, through 1970, 71 before they moved. Why was it such a bad baseball town? Well, I mean, you know, a lot of people will talk about the 68 riots. It had a big impact. In the stadium. Yeah. Yeah, it just had a big impact.

Did the attendance significantly drop after the 68 riots? I don't know. I don't know the answer. I'm thinking the most, I don't think they ever, I don't know if they ever drew a million fans in a season. But, you know, back then there weren't a lot of teams that drew a million fans. I mean, attendance, I mean, the Yankees, I don't think, drew a million fans in their heyday. I mean, you know, people, you could walk up and buy a ticket to baseball games in almost any city in the old days. You know, this sellout notion did not happen when baseball was even king.

It just didn't happen that much. You know, I am just barely old enough. My father took me to Senators games before they moved. I remember, because I vaguely remember being taken to Denny McLean's first. game because my father was a big baseball guy still is yeah he loves the nationals um and i remember going to r fk stadium and my memory of r fk stadium was for baseball games it just it was the opposite of the football games yeah yeah look i don't want i'm not saying it was a factor at all i'm just pointing out no i think you're right that it was it's a little bit of a coincidence that you know

that the the passion for the redskins really accelerated when at the time when they were the only show in town. That's that's the point I'm just pointing out. Whether it's coincidence or not, that's what happened. But that's fine. But the, but the major reason that it accelerated is because George Allen came in and won right away. Yes. Yes. You know, and they became a contender in his second year. They won the division, won the NFC championship game, and they were in the Super Bowl. Yes. And from that point forward until, and I was thinking about this too, until probably Gibbs left for the second time. The passion for this football team in this town was, you know, it wasn't just that it was first in this town by a lot. I mean, there was no second. There was no even

discussion of who was second. I mean, you know, you know this. There was a time certainly when Gary had it going at Maryland that Maryland basketball was probably the number two in terms of measurables like TV ratings and sellouts, et cetera. Absolutely. And the erosion of, the erosion of, of the fan base, I do believe, started after Gibbs left in 2007. I mean, there were, we all had this sense that the owner was not a good owner and that Vinnie Serrato and the people he employed were buffoons. Yeah. You know, long before 2007.

But Gibbs brought a respectability back to the franchise after a short period of time of lack of respect. Remember, it was only spurred. I mean, 99 through 2003. Yeah, I mean, exactly. It wasn't a long period of time. And you know what? A lot of people were all for Dan Snyder spending all that money.

Yeah. I mean, because remember, from 93 through 99. They were terrible too. They were terrible under John Ken Cook. Yeah. And Charlie. Jack and John, yeah. And the, you know, yes, there was the fantasy football season of 2000.

And a lot of people were like, this isn't how Gibbs used to do it. Gibbs and Bobby Deppery used to do it. I bought into 2000. I thought they were going to be really good. They were the favorite to win the Super Bowl in 2000, if you recall. But I can tell you, for me, I do remember being really upset when they fired Marty Schottenheimer because I thought it was wrong. Oh, absolutely. But I don't think that was an overwhelming feeling because people were all fired up about the old ball coach.

Yes, they were. You know, they were. Thanks to the Washington Post and their cheering section who thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Exactly. I might want to point out, in the year 2000, they were six and three at one point. I know they were. No, they were six and four, and Jeff George went to St. Louis, and they won on Monday night football to be seven and four.

I think they, Tommy, I think there were five and four. You might be right. I think they were six and three. But they dropped to six and four. In other words, my point is everyone getting excited about and berating fans for not showing up for a six and three team. In the last 40 years, there have been four six and three teams, one of them made the playoffs. Yeah, right. What I was going to say, though, is that sort of the beginning,

of what we're in now, and it's been a slow erosion. And then this year there was the unique opener. And I still think that that, I can't explain the Colts opener, other than the aftermarket ticket thing. And part of it, I think it's the aftermarket ticket thing more than anything else. I think a lot of it was statement. But it really started when Gibbs left, they hired Jim Zorn, and you ended up with Hainsworth, you know, swinging gate, a bingo,

call her. I mean, really, and you and I were doing the show at the time, I'm pretty sure, in 2008 or 2009, this was the game, and I'll never forget the show we did on that Monday, because I said, it's over. I was at the stadium for that Chiefs game in 2009. When the Redskins were a two and three team or two and two two team, and the Chiefs were terrible, and the Redskins had lost to Detroit earlier that year, remember to end that long lion's losing streak. And at halftime, they were down 3-0 or 6-0 or something, 7-0, and the stadium emptied. And I'm like, it's October. It's early October.

There's nobody here. And that was the first time. I remember saying to you the next day, I'm like, they got to fix this. This is, it's apathy. That was the first level of apathy. Then you got the Shanahan and you got the RG3, but then you had 2013 or, you know, January of 2013 through the end. And, you know, that Gruden 2014 season was a disaster.

and then you've had all the other stuff, McLuhan and all the bad stuff that they just never seem to get out of their own way on. I don't know. I think they can certainly be a powerful force in this town again and generate a tremendous amount of attention. I do too. But I don't think it'll ever be what it was because the landscape has changed. But they better start moving on that stadium.

Except that football's even more popular. today than it was. As a TV show. Yes. As a TV show. Okay. Do you know the TV numbers have been bad this year for the Redskins? I haven't seen it in recent weeks, but early on the numbers were, going side by side with the attendance numbers were very mediocre television audiences. And actually, locally I'm talking about. TV numbers, while they've been stronger this year, they're down from what they were 10 years ago in the NFL. Yeah, but they're stronger than they were last year in the year before. Yeah, they were.

Yeah, they were. But I'm just pointing out they're down from, again, talk about a changing landscape. The NFL is not as big on TV as it was 10 or 12, when the Redskins used to rule. All right. So the conclusion here is even if they get on a run, which I wouldn't count on, but if they became sort of a perennial contender, we think, you think that the upside is now limited. And I mean, I'm not going to limit it only because I think if, you think, if, you If the winning came with a sense of they're doing it right and a level of class that you had, remember a big part of the winning two in the 80s was this sense as a fan that you had, that we were a first-rate organization.

It was pride. With smarter people running the organization than anywhere else in football, there was that whole part of it too. You weren't ashamed of being a fan. It was, well, you shouldn't be ashamed if your team's winning, but it was more than that. It was the way they won. They outsmarted, they outthought, and they did it with incredible humility. That came from the head coach. Yes, it did.

And the general manager. Yeah. Both of them. Charlie was a guy that was incredibly humble and understated. All right. Let me tell you quickly about Ferrisch Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Fairfax. They should be on your list if you're considering something new. Go to ferrishcars.com right now.

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Tell him you heard about Ferrish from this show. He will take good care of you. And you can also find live inventory, live pricing right now at ferrish cars.com. Before we get to your favorite segment of the week, I'm the NFL PowerPole. Yesterday, Tommy, I... Actually, I'm looking forward to it this week. It looks like you're really prepared. Well, no, but I'm just looking forward to it this week. All right.

Yesterday on the show, I played something from Max Kellerman from first take. And Max Kellerman essentially said the reason for the Redskins fan base erosion is the name issue. Well, Max Kellerman's a buffoon. He's always been a buffoon. That's literally the description to describe Max Kellerman. He's a cable TV boxing announcer who got a lucky break. I liked him on that HBO telecast.

Oh, my gosh. I thought he was okay. Anyway, I said yesterday that the name issue had little to nothing to do with the eroding fan base, the decrease in interest over the years. I said that it's, you know, losing, dysfunctional losing, ownership, stadium, all that stuff. And I said that Max Kellerman was dead wrong to think that this is about the name issue. So I got a lot of pushback on Twitter on that.

A lot of people saying, you're dead wrong. It is the name issue, or the name issue is a big part of this. And not that everybody agreed with Max Kellerman. Nobody thinks it's close to the number one reason, because it's not. It's down the list. But when I said definitively it's little to nothing, emphasizing nothing that pissed some of you all off and you let me know on Twitter. And Dan Steinberg texted me last night, Tommy.

And the gist of what he said was that the name issue for many is an issue. And he referenced a poll from a few years ago on the post, not the Native American poll, where nine out of ten said they didn't have a problem with the name. But the poll that reflected that 11% of Redskins fans did have a problem. with the name and he said and he said to me in his text he said look and his point wasn't didn't have anything to do with a perspective on the name issue but he just said that if 11% of your fan base has a problem with the name then by definition the name issue could be one of the reasons that the team has lost some fans I think that's completely reasonable

that's fair let me let me finish because I will say that when I said little to nothing to do with it. I did say a little something to do with it, but I did emphasize the nothing to do with it. I will, I will concede that point. And I, and when he said that to me, I said, well, yeah, if it's 11%, and I went back and looked at the article from a few years back, five years ago, in fact, of Redskin fans said they had an issue with the name. So that's not in, that's far from any sort of majority, or it's a significant minority of the fans that were pulled on the issue, but still it's 10%. So instead of saying, that the name issue has little to do with why the skins have lost fans, I'll amend it to say

that it isn't nothing, that it's something. But Dan made a larger point, and it was this, and it's something I can actually identify with, and I didn't think of it from this perspective. He said that younger people in particular find the name issue to be a problem, and it's made it cooler in some respects to be a Nats or a Kaps fan in this town for younger people. And that in this large largely very liberal area that we live in, the Washington, D.C. market, a market that's gotten younger in recent years, that this is a potential problem for the team moving forward. My identification with that is, you know, I have teenage and now, you know, I've got a son in his 20s, working graduate from college. And I've had conversations in my home with some

of their friends who have come in and said, you know, they've got to change the name. It's racist. It's a slur. And you know how I feel about the issue. I, of course, engage them in conversation, and I'll say, why are you so sure that it's racist, that it's a slur? Do you have information that I don't have? And then I go into the available data that suggests that from the perspective of those that matter, Native Americans themselves, that the available data actually suggests the opposite of what one of my kids' friends would say to me. And to me, Tommy, this is the perfect example of of that younger generation into headlines, into buying the used car

without asking for, you know, the car fax information, you know, the actual specific information because the Max Kellerman's of the world have been selling this so hard that they, the alternative views to this aren't out there for some of these people. So they have come to the conclusion that Max Kellerman told me

that it was determined a long time ago that it's the N-word, that it's very racist, and very insensitive, and I don't have to even look it up. I don't even have to do any research on my own, and they buy it hook, line, and sinker. So I actually come back to this thing that I've mentioned, going back to when you and I did a show, it's time for a second non-pejorative definition.

Redskins noun, the professional football team that plays in Washington. That should be a second definition, and that could potentially erase the guilt that some of these people have unnecessarily. at least admit that there's a debate to be had. Don't just take it hook-line and sinker. Be open to the possibility that you form this opinion, young person, about this team that you feel guilty about rooting for without all the information.

You're just taking Max Kellerman's word for it. Don't do that. Because all of the information out there does suggest of the information that's available that the opposite of what Max Kellerman's word for it. Kellerman is telling you is actually true. Kevin, I'm kind of surprised that you would have this position, or at least be kind of naive about this.

Aren't you paying attention? We live in an age where information is hemlock. You don't want information. We just want to hear what people in authority tell us is true, and then we believe it. This is not just a sports. Is Max Kellerman authority? Oh, he's a sports authority. He's on, he has a T, he has a.

He has a TV show. Do we have a TV show on ESPN? I'm not surprised by that. So my point is, we live in an age where people believe without actually checking the facts. I mean, my God, we live in the golden age of that. So that's a problem. Here's what I would have said to Dan. You know, you may be right.

And he probably is right to some extent. I think he is right to a certain extent. What would happen? What would happen to the fan base if they changed? the name. Oh, I know. No, it's an outstanding response. Right. What would happen then be much worse? To the fan base if they changed the name. Yeah, because we know that the, if the 11% don't like the name, then 89% don't have a problem with the name. Yes. And beyond that, a significant percentage of those people would be upset if it were changed. Right. This is where I got, you know, I used to say to you, you know, um, there, there is,

there's an old marketing term, and it may still be. be a current marketing term. But it's, it's when you change, when you consider changing significant things about your brand, you have to be worried about disassociated passion, lost passion for a brand that was successful. You can't, you can't automatically say to yourself, oh, we're going to have this new brand and we're going to have new packaging and people are going to love the new packaging and in sports terms. They're going to buy all the new jerseys and the new logos and all that stuff and ignore the fact that some people will say, no, that's what I liked. I like the old Coke. The old Coke is what I'm used to. That's what I want. And when you go change these

longstanding brands, marketing people will tell you you're taking a massive risk, a massive risk. So I've always said to you that the argument that somehow this would be a windfall is untrue. The studies have been done. Forbes did this study 10 years ago on what would happen to the Redskins valuation if they change the name. It would take a massive hit if they went with a new brand. And the only factor that they said would limit the downside of the valuation or the downturn of the valuation is if they won big immediately. Well, we know that's not going to happen. Right. So if you change the name to the Warhawks.

No, that's not the name. What would be some, I don't even know what some of the names are, the possibilities that people have put out there, because I've never really paid attention to them. Warriors would be. Okay, so if you changed it to Warriors, is that acceptable? Is Warriors acceptable?

I would hope that it is. Golden State's gotten away with it for a while. If you changed it to Warriors and they won big right away, you would have sort of this incremental jump into the franchise and into the brand as a winning brand. But the risk would be if they didn't win big early, then you would take a massive valuation. And the Redskins valuation, believe it or not,

continues to go up. Oh, I know. Yeah. Continues to go up. Well, like every NFL team does. Yeah, it does. So, but that would be, I mean, again, you're asking the owner of the franchise to change the name based on,

a small but vocal minority of the minority because nine out of ten polled in two different polls, two different independent polls, the Annenberg poll and the Washington Post poll of Native Americans said they weren't offended or didn't particularly care about the name. And the telling part of that is we have not seen the people who want the name change, commission their own independent poll and come out with the results. Why? because they know what the results would be. Exactly. Yes.

I said that yesterday. I've said it before. That you're, I mean, you and I have had so many conversations about this over the years. And I think we're both, we both are open-minded. And I would change my mind in a New York second if I thought I was legitimately hurting a large group of people with, by, by cheering for this racist named team. But you need to help me. You got to show me that this is overwhelmingly insensitive. You can't say that the 9 out of 10 Native Americans poll that that poll is bogus because it was a phone poll,

and they weren't even sure that the people that they were talking to were Native American, or that it didn't, you know, hit enough of the tribes that are anti-name. Do you think the Washington Post wanted to publish the results of that poll? Do you honestly think that they wanted to come to that? Conclusion? Of course. Like they were praying for the opposite result. My God. And listen, again, I don't care what they're named. I don't even read for the team. I know you don't. I just, I just resent mindless. I just resent mindlessness. Yeah. And that's kind of what this is, mindlessness.

So young people out there that believe that when Max Kellerman tells you, it's already been determined. Yes. Native Americans say it's 100% across the board. so racist and we're offending every time we root for the professional football team in Washington, understand that it's actually a more complex issue, that it's actually debatable. And the data out there actually suggests the opposite. But to your point, show me the other poll. And I'll, you know, and I'll, and not from some Indian country newspaper or something like that. That's not, I'm not interested in seeing the results of that poll.

Look, the bottom line is if we're only talking about what has damaged the Redskins fan base and we're talking about the name being a contributing factor, you can't argue that if you flip that and you change the name, it would be far more damaging. If we're only talking about, we're not talking about whether it's racist or not, we're not talking about how insensitive it is, we're talking about the damage to the Redskins fan. base. It'd be far worse.

It's a great way to look at it. If you change the name. It's totally, it makes total sense to look at it from that perspective. It's also, you know, part and parcel to the answer to the question, well, do you think if they were an expansion franchise that they would launch the franchise with the name Redskins? And of course they wouldn't. Why would somebody launch a new business with a controversial, a potentially controversial name? But that's

not the situation here. It's an 85-year brand that's been established, that's created, by the way, a completely different definition and meaning for the word than what it meant in the 19th century. The word now for the last half century has meant the professional football team in Washington. All right. Before the power pole, I did want to mention this. One thing that I saw on CBSports.com yesterday, a mock NFL draft for 2019. Yeah. And the Redskins selecting a quarterback in the first round, Will Greer. What a shock.

From West Virginia as their first round pick. What a shock. Basically, in summary, it's they have to have their quarterback of the future. That has already sort of been determined with Alex Smith's performance this year that they've got to think about his replacement sooner than later. Yes, I think so. There's a sense of urgency. I don't.

I mean, that would be incredible if the Redskins in May of 2019 took a quarterback in the first round? It would be. But it would be Redskins-like. All right, let's get to the NFL PowerPole. Rinkum, one to five. It's time for our weekly NFL Power Poll. Number five is Carolina.

I mean, Carolina now at six and two. moves into my top five teams. You might want to revisit that. It's so true. I revisited the next morning. You were right about that. Carolina, number five, instead of the Chargers, who I love.

All right, this week's PowerPole. What do you got? You've been working on it all morning long. Well, I've just been waiting for that moment. I know. Actually, I haven't been working on anything. I just been waiting to crow over Carolina. Oh, that was what you were ready for?

That's what you were working on? Oh, you know that. You know what to expect from me. Look, I played it on the next day without you. That was funny. Okay, well, my number five team. Yep. The Pittsburgh Steelers entered the top five for the first time this year, I think, in my top five rankings.

Their defense is playing very well. You know, Ben Rothesberger always gets overlooked among the great quarterbacks of his era. You think he gets overlooked? I think he does. His name is never mentioned. I don't overlook him. Well, I know you don't. He's always been elite to me.

Sometimes you have your moments, I guess. You know, number four team are the Los Angeles Chargers. And in fact, if I made, you know, if I made a list of teams, I wouldn't want to play in the playoffs. The Chargers right now might be at that top of the list. The thing is, is more likely than not, the Chargers are going to have to win three road games to get to the Super Bowl. It's going to be a wild card.

But they do play the Chiefs. They do. And the chiefs could stumble. Actually, the Kansas City Chiefs are my number three team. You know, still, I mean, their offense, Pat Mahomes is a Hall of Famer. Not yet he's not. Well, I mean, he's getting closer and closer to it. Well, no, he's not getting closer and closer to it.

I read an article. Oh, God. Talk about Millennial. I read the headline of a ESPN story that basically said he's doing things that no human has ever done before. Yeah, of course. So I'm going to pick the Chiefs is number three, the Rams as number two, and obviously the New Orleans Saints are my number one team.

But think about this for a minute. I know what you're going to say. Two years ago, there was no NFL football in Los Angeles. That's not what I thought you were going to say. There's a chance, however small, that the Rams and the Chargers could play each other in the Super Bowl. So both LA teams could wind up facing each other in the Super Bowl and it'll be in Atlanta. But for a town that didn't have NFL football two years ago.

You think they're excited about it out there? I think they're getting excited about it. Not about the Chargers. I think if the Chargers are playing in Rams in a Super Bowl, I think L.A. will be crazy. I think the Chargers are in the Super Bowl. San Diego is going to be excited about it. I think that this is one of the reasons why Bryce Harper is going to play for the Dodgers. I thought you were going to say that you didn't have New England in your top five, which is completely reasonable this week.

I mean, I just think that goes without saying. Well, it doesn't go without saying. Well, I think it does because I know a smart person would not put New England in their top five. So let's hear your top five, smart guy. All right, number five, I've got a tie between New England and the Chargers. That's my tie for the week. The Patriots and the Chargers. Look, I love the Chargers.

God, they need Joey Bosa when they get to the playoffs, and I hope he's healthy for that run. And they've got, you know, they just moved the Chargers Steelers game on December 2nd to Sunday night football. They have that game. They've got the Chiefs on December 13th on the road. They've got a game at home the next last week of the season

against the Ravens. Maybe it'll be over for the Ravens at that point. As an aside, did you read the story that RG3 is a potential starter Sunday against the Bengals? think that's true. I don't think it is either. I think if they... First of all, I think Flacco is going to end up playing. He doesn't need to practice for

Harbaugh to say Joe's going to be out there if he can go. But I think they would start Lamar Jackson if Flacco was legitimately too hurt to go. Yeah, but at least that way RG3 can put a uniform on and stand on the sidelines. I still look at the chargers, Tommy, and I still say

during this incredible run that's only included two losses basically in the last year. Who have they beaten? They haven't beaten anybody really good. They won on the road at Seattle. They beat the Titans in London. Their wins, other than that, are the Bills, the Niners, the Raiders, and the Browns.

And Raiders twice. So I do want to see what they do at Arrowhead. I want to see what they do in Pittsburgh. These are big spots to really measure the chargers here over the next month. Yes, they are. And I think they really do need Joe. Joey Bosa, a healthy Joey Bosa. He's a defensive MVP talent. Well, he's one of the top five defensive players in the league. But he just hasn't been on the field enough. I think he's about ready to come back.

So tied for five, New England and the Chargers. Four is Kansas City. I've got Pittsburgh ahead of Kansas City. I think Pittsburgh would... You really don't like Kansas City. It's not that I don't like them. I think offensively they are a show. And this year may be the year of great offensive teams with average to sub-average defense. is getting to the Super Bowl. I mean, we may see this because, you know, at this point, I know New Orleans is a great run-stopping team, which is important at this point. But, you know, the Rams have given up a lot of yards and a lot of points with the talent they have. There are good defensive teams. It may be the year of the offense in Kansas City can overcome a subpar defensive football team to make the postseason, but I think Pittsburgh would

beat him at Arrowhead. I think that it's a couple of teams could go into Arrowhead. and win. And they still have interesting games starting with Monday night, and they still have a game against the Chargers, and they've got a game in Seattle. And they've got some tough games left. So I got Pittsburgh ahead of Kansas City, and then I've got the Rams 2, and the Saints won.

And I really do have a strong feeling that if the Saints get home field advantage, they're not going to lose at home in the postseason. The Rams are the one team capable of going in there and beating them because they could keep pace with them like they did two weeks ago. But it would be all about Drew Breeze and Drew Breeze getting back to another Super Bowl and Drew Breeze winning another Super Bowl. And that is the true home field advantage in the NFC.

I mean, it is the, right now Seattle and New Orleans are the two best NFC home field advantages. Yeah. I would put them even ahead of Lambo. Now, Soldier Field could be really interesting in the postseason. If the Bears continue on this run, that could be a difficult place to go in and win. But if the Saints are the one seed in the NFC, They're going to the Super Bowl. They're going to be in Atlanta.

It's hard to see anyone beating them in the dome. Yeah, because they just don't have the kind of players that would come up small in a big spot like that. They'd only have to win two games, both of them at home. And they wouldn't have to face the Rams until the second game. All right, that's my top five. You've got your top five. Van Pelt tomorrow, I think, on the show. I think he got hung up with a couple of things this morning.

which is fine. He's got bad weather up there in Connecticut like we've had here. You know, he, I read on Twitter, he spoke to your friend Joe Yashirov's journalism class at University of Maryland. He was down here the other day. He was part of the symposium that they had out in college park, George Solomon's thing at the journalism school with Chelsea Janes and Mori Povich moderated. He told me it was a great time and it was a fun night out there. So I think Joe, you know, Joe teaches a class in the journalism school. So that's probably where they're connected. I'm going to see Joe to more night.

I don't know if he went or if he did it via Skype. Well, he was here. Okay, I know he was here because he was here for that panel. But you might want to just pass on to him when you have him on the show. I hope when he was speaking to those journalism students, he gave him good advice and told them to become Uber drivers. I can tell you the advice that he can't give them is how to succeed academically at the University of Maryland. That's what I know he can't give them. But anyway, tonight there is a Thursday night game.

It's a good game, right? It's a very good game. You know, it's Seattle's a two and a half point favorite tonight over the Packers. It's a big game for the Packers. Like if you really think the Packers are one of those teams because of Aaron Rogers that could give the Rams or the Packers or the Saints, excuse me, a real problem in the postseason on the road, well, they got to get to the postseason. And losing this game would drop them. to four, five, and one. And I mentioned this yesterday on the podcast.

I think the Seahawks are underrated. I think they're a good football team. And I like them tonight. It's not a smell test pick. The action very split on this game at Seattle minus three, two and a half, somewhere in that neighborhood. But I do like, I kind of like Seattle. I'd lean towards them.

Of course, last Thursday night I leaned towards Carolina because they were number five in my power rankings. They were. I think if you're rooting for the Packers or you think it's the Packers, it's the other Aaron that's going to get the job done. Aaron Jones over Aaron Roder's, that's more important in this game. He's really good. He's a good back. You saw it last year, you know, at times, and they need that, Aaron, this Aaron, our Aaron, they need a running game for him. They need to keep their defense off the field, dominate time of possession. Look, the Packers may drop to four, five, and one. It

wouldn't eliminate them by any stretch of the imagination. They went into Los Angeles and nearly beat the Rams a of weeks ago. They're certainly capable. This is a big game for both of these teams to really legitimately establish themselves as a wild card contender. The Packers, I'm sure, still have hopes of getting back into the division race with Chicago and Minnesota, and they'll have those opportunities with games against those teams. I sort of lean towards Seattle tonight. I think they'll win tonight. There was a, I'll tell you what, a smell test lean tonight is Tulane. plus the 10 at Houston. Not an official pick, but Tulane's actually played really well,

and Houston's been struggling a little bit, and Houston's laying a semi-short number against Tulane. I'd lean Tulane in that one tonight. And Florida Atlantic, too. I like Florida Atlantic, too, but not smell test picks. Okay. I'm just rambling here. Okay, a couple of things before we wrap it up.

I want to remind everybody that you can hear me on 1067 the fan every Wednesday afternoon with Chad Dukes from four to six. and Saturday mornings with Andy Paulin from 9 to noon. And you could read my work in the Washington Times, Washington Times. Washington Times.com slash sports. And since I won't be here tomorrow, I wanted to give my Redskins pick.

Houston 2816. I think, you know, Redskins offense is going to struggle mightily against this front seven. When you get done doing the JFK thing on Wednesdays with Chad, is that the night you go to Shelley's every week? Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. You want to let traffic get out. I'm done at 6 o'clock.

So you go down there for dinner? I go down there for dinner. On your way back through town. Yeah. Is Bob Matarazzi still, does he still own it or not? Yeah, Bob still owns it. Bob is doing great these days actually. Yeah, tell him I said hello, please.

But I don't see. By 6 o'clock, he's gone. He's usually there during the day. And I don't usually get in there to about 630 or so. All right. Listen to Tommy on Saturday morning on JFK and on Wednesdays with Chad. Andy will be in tomorrow. Have Scott on the show. Also, Ross Tucker is going to join us on the show. I think Ross has a sharp NFL opinion. I really do. I've always enjoyed him when he's been on shows with us before. We'll get his thoughts on the Redskins in the NFL tomorrow. And it'll be a full football Friday. So tune in for that. Drive safely. If you're out, it's still snowing here as we're recording this podcast. this morning. And can we get some fall back at some point before winter really settles in? I like fall weather. So do I. Thank you, Tommy. Thank you. I'm glad you commute was short.

Aaron, thanks. Thanks to all of you. Have a great day.