The Kevin Sheehan Show - "I'm Still In The Hunt"

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Kevin opened with his reaction to the Steve Apostolopoulos appearance on CNBC this morning. He weighed in on the Aaron Rodgers trade, discussed the NFL Draft, and caught up on a few things he missed last week including the firing of Tommy Sheppard as well. Then, Kevin welcomed his friend Steve Czaban to the show.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. I am back after a few days off on this Monday of NFL draft week. I cannot believe we are here already. The NFL draft week is a big week for us.

Always is. This is one of the big spikes that we have. And what I would refer to is kind of low season. Like there's a high season for sports content providers like me. And when I say like me, guys that do it, guys are women that do it in markets where the NFL team is number one. And yes, the NFL team is still number one in this market by a large margin, even though it's not nearly the same level of number one that it once was. But you kind of have in markets like ours a high season, which is the day after Labor Day through the Super Bowl. And then you've got a low season.

But there are spikes during the low season. Free agency is a big deal. the draft is a big deal. Those are the two biggest spikes. Free agency and all of the news that happens during that beginning part of free agency. And then the NFL draft this week leading up to Thursday, Friday, and Saturday is huge for us.

You know, there are times where, you know, if the caps are doing really well in the Stanley Cup playoffs or the Nats are having a big season, March Madness is often a spike for me anyway because I'm into college basketball. I'm into the NBA playoffs. I seem to be into those by myself on this show anyway. But yeah, this is a big week for us.

So looking forward to it very much so. By the way, I have heard from many of you who have asked, what about Cooley this week, Sheehan? Not this week. Next week. I'm not going to tease that Cooley's coming on and then not have him come on. It's too much work for him to do 20 draft profiles and project on who Washington should take.

It's a lot easier for him to do film breakdowns of the players they actually select. So that's what we'll start next week at some point is he'll do film breakdowns of the players they actually select. And we'll spread that out over a week, week and a half, two weeks, something like that. Whenever he gets them done, really, try to do one or two of them a couple of times a week. But yeah, that's the news on Cooley for those of you who have asked. because it is NFL draft week, and you have an expectation of Cooley being a part of the show, and he will be. But it'll happen.

I think last year it was kind of the same thing. He did draft film breakdowns after the draft. So we will do that starting next week. I wanted to start today's show with a tweet that I got from Josie. You can follow me on Twitter at Kevin Sheen, D.C. You can tweet me at Kevin Sheen, D.C. No blue check for me. Never had one.

Never did like it much. Never did like it much. As Jack Dawson once said about caviar, I believe, in the movie Titanic. I think it was caviar that he was talking about. I can't believe that we never got a blue check mark. Tommy and I've talked about this a lot. He never got one. I never got one.

I don't know how that happened. I didn't apply for one until maybe two years ago at the request of radio. and I got denied each time I applied for one. Tommy the same. Look, there are people in local media here that have blue checks that don't have the same presence, the same reach that we have. I don't know what the reason is. I had somebody tweet me the other day to say, you should pay for one now. It would really help you.

You would increase your followers. You would have higher profile on hashtag moments for your tweet. whatever that means. I'm not paying for one. I'm not paying for a blue check. I don't need one now. Nobody else has one. So I look like everybody else.

So Josie tweeted me the following. Josie tweeted, Kevin, I really enjoyed Tim. But why do you have to have a sub when you're on vacation for a podcast? This isn't radio. It's a great point. And I appreciate the tweet. First of all, I love having Tim on. the show and a lot of you love when Tim, and Tim did this for me last summer when I took some

vacation time as well. And look, there are days when I'm out that I'm not going to have Tim or anybody else do a show and the day will just go by without a show. But the reason for doing it last week in particular is twofold. One, you know, we have all of the news surrounding the sale and there was more news this morning, which I will get to here momentarily. You all also, you know, have the draft coming up. And then we had a big story last week with Tommy Shepard getting fired. That happened on that Thursday of last week. But really, that's all secondary to the fact of there's no money generated if we don't do a show.

This isn't like, hey, I get a bunch of vacation days. A bunch of paid vacation days doesn't work that way. When I do a show, there are spots that you hear on this show that, run that we generate revenue off of. So that's kind of the brass tax answer, I guess, on that. But there will be some days this summer where we won't have shows, and there will be other days, especially during important news cycles, I guess, sports news cycles. We're, you know, I'll have, if Tim's available to do it, I'll have Tim do it. Tim's great. Tim's a professional sports talk show host. He hosts a show on Brent Musburger's Veezen Network.

with Sean King, the former Tampa Bay Bucks quarterback. He does such a great job. He's a good friend, and I really appreciate the fact that he's willing to do them when I feel like it makes more sense to have a show than not have a show. So there you go on that. Now, on the show today, a show today that is sponsored by our good friends at MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Go to mybooky.orgie.com. use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And they will do something that most books don't do, which is allow you to cash in and cash out quickly. So all you have to do is wager your deposit amount one time, not multiple times, just one time. So if you deposit $500, once you've wagered $500 worth of bets, you're eligible to cash out.

Perfect for events like the NBA playoffs or the upcoming, what are we, two weeks away, week and a half away from the Kentucky Derby, the triple crown races. So if you want to just get involved in that, my bookie is the place for you. Go to mybooky.com or mybooky.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. One guest on the show, and I'm going to give you fair warning, I recorded this much earlier today. And it was before the news that just broke that Aaron Rogers has been traded to the New York Jets. The guest on the show today is my good friend Steve Zaven. And there is a small segment of our conversation because he hosts a radio show in Milwaukee. I think most of you know that.

He also has a podcast called The Zabcast. But Zab hosts a show in Milwaukee. He doesn't go to Milwaukee to do the show, although he spends a lot of time in Milwaukee, but he hosts the show from his home in Northern Virginia. But I did ask him about. Aaron Rogers to the Jets before the news broke moments ago that Aaron Rogers has been traded to the New York Jets. And here is the compensation is reported by Adam Schaefter. The Packers agreed to trade Aaron Rogers and their 2023 first round pick, which is number 15 overall, and a 2023 fifth round pick to the Jets for the Jets number one pick this year, number 13 overall. So they move up two spots this year. They get the Jets second round pick this year,

which is number 42 overall. They get a sixth round pick in this year's draft. And then they also get a conditional 2024 second round pick that becomes a first rounder if Rogers plays 65% of the snaps next year. You know, assuming health, that's a pretty good football team, Aaron Rogers will play 65% of the snaps and the Packers will get the Jets first round pick next year. Now, if they don't get the first rounder, they get a second rounder. Also, the first rounder next year, if the Jets are as good as I think they have a chance to be, it won't be an early first rounder. Also, Aaron Rogers is expected to wear jersey number eight, according to Adam Schaefter, even though franchise legend Joe Namath gave him the blessing to wear number 12. He's going to wear number eight, which was the number he wore at Cal in college.

So there you go. This has been a long time coming. There was discussion about who had the leverage. You'll hear Zabe and I talk about this. Again, it's not a big part of our conversation. It's a small part. And I'm not going to go edit it out at this point. but this news

I guess supersedes the conversation that I had with Zabe, the small part of our conversation about Aaron Rogers, but you'll hear it anyway. I'll leave it in there. There was also big news earlier this morning made by Steve Apostolopoulos

on CNBC, the Canadian billionaire who has been one of the bidders, reported bidders, for the Washington commanders was a guest on Squawk Box, the show on CNBC that precedes the market opening, and this is what he said. Unfair to say, though, that you're still in the hunt?

I am still in the hunt, yes. And can we just put two more specifics on it? $6 billion is the price tag that's been reported, both that you bid and that the Harris Group, bid. So what's the difference? Do you know? You know what? It's hard to say right now. And as it's a live

process, I really don't feel comfortable saying too too much and I want to respect the process. But it is a head-to-head process right now. I don't know what to make of this. So many of you have reached out to me and said, so what

the F is the deal here? I thought you told us, Kevin, a week and a half ago that Josh Harris had purchased the team. What I told you is what was reported. Josh Harris was the winning bidder, but there was a non-exclusive negotiating period. It was awkward. It was odd. We've had many people tell us that the process with Snyder selling this team has been different. That's not a surprise. It shouldn't be. It's been difficult, according to people associated with the Harris bid.

I have no idea if Steve Apostolopoulos is a legitimate buyer possibility for this team. I really don't. I still think it's Josh Harris. I've talked to people today close to the Harris bid who say they still are very confident that they are going to get this team and that the non-exclusive negotiating period will eventually go away and it will become more binding. And then you still have the process of going to the lead. for three quarters vote approval, which seems like a bit of a formality. But yeah, this has been a

strange process. I have a theory on why this is taking the route that it's taken, and I will share that theory when Zabe jumps on with me in the next segment of the show. But is Steve Apostolopoulos a potential real bitter? I have no idea. But we got, you know, a face to Steve Apostolopoulos on this interview. We got a voice to Steve Apostolopoulos. Look, Josh Harris hasn't spoken. Only Magic Johnson has spoken on behalf of that bid, but Steve Apostolopoulos said, you know, this is a live process, and I am still in the hunt. And so if you take him at his word and you put it side by side with now, we're a week and a half after the reporting that Josh Harris had won the bidding to buy the commanders, And yet we don't have anything truly finalized at this point.

We don't have a report that says that non-exclusive period has come and gone. And now that deal that he's got with Josh Harris is binding. And now it's just a formality of going to the other 31 league owners for a vote. But we heard from Apostolopoulos, haven't heard from Harris, heard barely from Magic Johnson. And look, we didn't hear a lot from Apostolopolis either. I just like saying Apostolopoulopoulos. because I think I've gotten it right from the beginning. I butchered it maybe that first day,

but I now have it down. Apostolopolis. What kind of owner would he be? I have no idea, gang. He's a Canadian billionaire. He's worth $6 to $7 billion. We don't know anything about, you know, the group that he has assembled

because it can't be all him. You know, he's not spending all of his net worth on this football team. He's got to come up with $1.8 billion. He probably has to indemnify, F. I. Snyder to a certain degree because we had that reporting last week on the Harris bid. And then, you know, he's got to be vetted by the league. This is a, I think it's a new name for NFL owners. I mean, they may know him in business, but they don't know him as a sports owner. You know, it's a foreign owner.

He's Canadian. That makes him foreign. It may not be Saudi Arabian money behind his bid, but he's a Canadian. but remember Jack Cancook was Canadian as well. I don't have an answer for you. I'm not going to fake an answer for you. I'm not going to just, you know, wing it and say that, you know, I think that, you know, you've got to take him at his word. I have no idea if it makes sense to take him at his word. This may be totally self-serving for him.

But what we do know is that there's still this non-exclusive period for Snyder to shop it, for them to negotiate the five-point. $8 billion and the other $250 million and whatever else Snyder wants in the deal. But I do have a theory as to why this is dragging on. And I'm not saying it's dragging on longer than the Denver process or the Carolina process before that, but it seems to have been dragging on here in the most recent weeks following the reporting that Josh Harris had won the bid. I'll share that with Zabe.

So it's NFL draft week this week. And Washington holds number 16 overall on Thursday night. They've got eight picks total in the draft. They've got a first rounder. They've got picks in the second, third, fourth, fifth, two in the sixth round, one in the seventh round. Last year, you remember, they traded back from 11 to 16 with New Orleans. They picked up third and fourth round picks from the third.

the Saints for moving five spots back. Then they traded one of the picks, the fourth round pick, to Carolina, along with a sixth round pick, to get two fifth round picks. That's what they did last year. Now, I missed having a chance to talk about Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew's press conference from Thursday of last week. Look, there wasn't much to it, really, in terms of learning anything. Martin Mayhew emphasized what he's emphasized in the past, and that is, you know, trading back is nice because volume of picks is a strategy that he believes in. And, you know, if you believe that the draft is a bit of, you know, kind of a throw darts at a dartboard process that it's far from scientific. and you are going to hit in general on 33% of your choices in terms of players becoming contributors, then if that's kind of the number that is the average,

well, you'd rather have that average percentage hit rate on a much larger number of players selected. So, you know, he talked a lot about what he did last year and talked about, you know, whether or not there would be an opportunity to do that this year. remember, you got to have somebody below you willing to trade up. And you got to have players that drop that seem to be players that other teams would be interested in. Last year, it was the run-on receivers that had started, if you recall. This year, it might be a quarterback. I mean, it might be an Anthony Richardson or a Will Levis who drops to 16. Now, if Richardson drops to 16, I want Washington to take Anthony Richardson. But, you know, we'll find out, you know, on Thursday night.

whether or not there's a reason that drives activity from below. Last year there was. This year there may not be. Anyway, oh, there was one other thing from Rivera and Mayhew last week, because I watched it. I watched it on my phone, I think, Saturday morning. It was like 30 minutes long. And I don't know, this was my interpretation of something.

There was some discussion about the tradeback and about getting their guy, Jahan Dotson. And let me just say, I love John Dotson. I loved him before the draft. You guys know that. I had no problem with them picking him at 16. I love Dotson at Penn State. I thought he was going to be a star NFL wide receiver. And I like him even more now. But there was this air of, and we've heard it before, from Ron and even Martin, like they were super sharp, super crafty in pulling the wool over New Orleans's eyes on this tradeback that landed them the guy they wanted in Jahan Dotson and Robinson, and Sam Howell, the guy that they really wanted all along, and Cole Turner. I know they didn't say that necessarily about Sam Hal, but the verdict is not in.

John Dotson missed five games and caught 35 passes last year. You know, you know who was really good last year? Chris Alave, the guy that New Orleans traded up for. He caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards for a team that was pretty wretched on offense at times last year. So let's not break our arms patting ourselves on the back for this genius move, this Mensa move last year. It takes time before you know. You know, it takes time before the evaluation is complete on a trade line. that. And by the way, you include, obviously, all the players Washington got by trading back,

but you also include all of the players that Washington passed on on a deal like that. Remember when they traded back and got Ryan Carrigan? I didn't hear a lot of chest thumping from the Shanahan crew, but you know who they passed on? J.J. Watt. Ryan Carrigan was a really good player. J.J. Watt Hall of Famer. But you have to consider the players that they didn't pick. Alave, for one. Hamilton to Baltimore, hell of a rookie season. Jordan Davis, the big guy in Philly. You know, there's a ways to go before the verdict is in

on how crafty and how super sharp they were in the 2022 draft. So, you know, there's one other thing, too, as I started to think about last year's tradeback. You know, they pick up the third and fourth, and then they trade the fourth with a sixth for the two-fifths, with Carolina. And we've heard so much from them in this offseason about, you know, how much they loved Sam Howell this time last year and how they were shocked. He was still on the board in the fifth round. And Ron has cited all of the mock drafters that have told him, oh, he should have been first or second round, you know, third round. And they had a much higher grade. And when I was going back through the John Dotson deal, just looking at it in detail again, I forgot that basically

the fourth rounder they got from Carolina, they packaged trade back again and pick up the two fifth rounders. So basically, this guy Sam Howell, who they loved, is sitting there, hasn't been taken. And they take Percy Butler in the fourth round. And then they've got another fourth rounder later in the fourth round, and they trade it. They trade it back to pick in the fifth round. 24 picks between the fourth rounder that they had and the first pick in the fifth round, which was theirs after the trade with Carolina. That was the pick that they selected Sam Hal with.

This is why I have been skeptical when I hear how badly they wanted him in the draft last year. You know, keep in mind, that's different than saying that, you know, they're super high on him now. And I'm not, I don't disbelieve that they're super high on him now. I mean, I think it's an exaggeration, and I think it's kind of a convenient take because that's all they have. And it kind of, as I've said before, was a bit of a PR move to mask the disaster of the end of the season. But it's more justifiably, it's more justifiable in my mind's eye that they can be optimistic about him now and sell that than how badly and optimistic they were about them before last year's draft. I mean, their actions don't back that up.

Their actions didn't back that up last year. If they thought for sure this guy was going to be long gone by the second or third round because that's the grade that they had them and all the mock drafters had on them, then why did they trade back from their fourth round pick? It's one thing to say, hey, we took Federer and Mathis in the second. second round and then we really wanted the running back. And then we were really looking for another DB who could play some special teams. But when you got to this second fourth round pick and they traded back again, do you really think Sam Howe was super on their mind? Like they

wanted him so badly? It's a revisionist history on that. There's no other way to say it. Anyway, big draft for Ron Rivera, coach-centric Ron. You know, he hasn't done a great job in the round here, but he's done a really good job. The team has drafting post first round. Chase Young, Jamon Davis, clearly question marks. Jahan Dotson, I think proved a lot last year. I really love that pick. I think he's going to be great. Again, don't mistake what I said about their take on the trade last year for not liking Jahan. I like him a lot. But verdict not in yet. But they've done pretty well, you know, in the after first round picks here over the the last couple of years.

O-line, corner, pass rusher, maybe. I doubt quarterback at 16, even though I would endorse it if they loved one, even though I've said I don't really trust them picking a quarterback. So those two things are in conflict. I recognize that. I doubt Bejohn Robinson at 16. I don't see a linebacker. I don't see a receiver.

I don't see a defensive tackle. I'd like to think that tight ends a possibility. You know, one of the things that will be good for them is the positions of need are deeper positions, corner, O line, tight end. You know, if they miss at 16 or in a tradeback, if they pick up extra picks on a player or a position that they really want to add a player in this draft in terms of the position group, they'll likely have a chance to do that at 47 in the second round. All right. A couple of other just very quick things. Tommy Shepard was fired while I was away.

I was a big Tommy Shepard fan in terms of the person that he is. I like Tommy a lot. I liked Ernie a lot. You've heard a lot of us say that over the years. But here's the bottom line. Tommy Shepard didn't get the job done. Tommy Shepard didn't draft well. You've got to draft well.

Okay? and they didn't draft well under him. They didn't draft well under Ernie either. They haven't been a good drafting team. And Tommy didn't draft well enough in a city where you're not a destination for premium free agents and you don't have superstars on your team already,

you've got to find him in the draft. Rui Hachamor and ninth overall. I liked personally Brandon Clark better and Brandon Clark's a really good player. He's playing great in the postseason for the Lakers right now. You know, he's got a lot of offensive talent, no doubt. Denny Avdia's got, you know, talent, but he's not a superstar player. Corey Kispern isn't a star.

Johnny Davis isn't a star. You know, they didn't whiff so badly in terms of missing on other players like they did with Kauai Leonard when they took Jan Vesley in the 2011 draft. Or, you know, Otto Porter in the draft in which Janus was selected, right? Wasn't that the, that was the auto porter draft, where they took Auto Porter third, and Janice went, I think 15th to Milwaukee in that draft. They haven't drafted well. You got to draft better.

And if you don't, then you're not getting the job done. I like Tommy Shepard so much personally. He's a basketball lifer. He is a basketball guy. He didn't draft well enough, period. The decision on Beale was a bad decision. I don't know if was Ted's decision. more Ted, more Tommy.

But the next GM, whoever that is, and it's not going to be Bob Myers, please. Right now it appears to be JT3, who's taken over those responsibilities. He's been working for the Wizards for a while now, and the Wizards put out, I guess, some sort of message to the other 31 teams that for now, while they don't have a general manager,

if you have questions about anything, refer them to John Thompson, the third. I don't know if he's actually a candidate for the job or not. I have no idea. But anyway, you have to draft better and you have to get rid of the Beale contract. You've got to figure out a way to find a spot for him where he waives the no trade clause and you get rid of that contract because you can't be great. You can't contend with Bradley Beale being a $50 million a year player on your roster. If that was more Tommy, bad decision. If it was more TED, terrible decision. And it's just number one on the list for the new GM. Get rid of Beal and basically take this thing down to the studs and then try to draft much better and get lucky in the draft too. There's some luck involved, people.

There is. A lot of teams passed on Kauai Leonard and Yana Satentacumpo. They weren't obvious top two, top three picks. You got to get lucky a little bit, but you got to be good too. and they haven't been good. They've been dreadful when it's come to the draft. Beal, Wall was a no-brainer. Beal was a really good pick in the 2012 draft,

but unfortunately, he's not a superstar, and they picked him, let's face it, you know, three spots ahead of Damien Lillard. Lillard would have been a better pick. All right, let's get to Zabe next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, jumping on with me right now, and it is draft week.

And there's lots of other stuff going on, including what I talked about in the open, which was more news related to the commander's sale with this Canadian billionaire, Steve Apostolopoulos, going on CNBC this morning and saying that he is still in the hunt for the team. But my good friend, Steve Zabin, is making time for us this week. In the first of a week, home and home, I get the first game. I got, I had the better regular season record. which means I get the first home game, and then I got to travel to your place on,

I don't know what day we're going to do it. I forget what day you wanted me to do it. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. It'll be home and home tomorrow. Yeah. By the way, the Steve Apostolopadapodapodapidopopalus appearance is wild because he had never been seen before by anybody.

I know. By anybody. Yeah, what did you think? So the fact that he popped up today on Squawk Box, it'd be like if the real Easter bunny were to hop by you one, day out your window. You'd be like, holy shit, is that the Easter buddy? I believe. But yeah, he sounds like a very boring guy. And so you combine this now sudden revelation with the whole farce that was and is, I guess, if it hadn't been killed yet,

Brian Davis bid and man. And all of this, and Bezos is still out, Shian. How is that possible? Yeah, well, I mean, clearly Bezos doesn't want this team, I guess, or, you know, Snyder actually really didn't want to sell it to him. I don't know what the deal with Bezos is, but I just, I listened to this guy this morning, and he described what a wonderful city Washington is and what a wonderful organization Washington would be to own and how the process is still live. I mean, look, the Canadian owner we had that led us to all those Super Bowls was Jack Kent Cook. Don't forget, he was Canadian. Yeah, exactly. It's just so funny he's talking about, you know, the nice city. Okay, fine.

It'd be a wonderful organization to own. Bro, you're buying the name and the rights to the television deal at a decrepit stadium. That's what you're buying. If you come in and you don't clean out everything and everybody, then you're setting yourself up for failure. Well, let's just start here. So what do you think is going on right now, and how do you think it ends?

I think definitely Dan Snyder is desperately trying to put guys forward to try to goose the numbers. Like when I saw, I guess Forbes came out with the breakdown of the Harris Group bid, They were like, yeah, $5.8 billion right now. And they'll get to the last $250 million over the next two years, which is not totally unusual from what I read in these deals, but it was obviously important enough that the number got pushed over six because Snyder probably thought he was going to get seven

when the early reports back in October said, oh, my God, there's a ton of people knocking down the door The number is going to be seven plus. I think he wanted it over six, so he somehow ginned up enough intrigue to get the Harris Group to go, fine. In for $5.8 billion, we're in for another $250 million. What the hell will get it to you in two years. I think the same thing's happening with this Pasta Dopolopoulopoulos guy that Snyder's dragging his feet. He's pushing it, you know, whoever can get out there in the public eye, he's got that clown suit, Gasparino,

from Fox out there, you know, pimping, oh, you know, like, I've been laughing my ass off it. I've been hearing this guy with Grant and Danny, and I'm thinking, could you be a bigger show for Dan Snyder if you tried? So what I think is happening is that Dan is leveraging everyone he can to stay in the running to try to pump this price up as high as possible. And probably, Kevin, the most important part is to indemnify him, right? Yeah, I mean, the report. report last week came that the Harris bid includes some level of indemnification. I think even the

post, you know, back that part of the Sportico or Forbes story, whatever it was. I'm getting mixed up. I've had so many of these people on the shows, and I forget which ones say what. But, yeah, I mean, I actually have kind of a new theory right now, and I'm going to bounce it off you. All right. Oh, I love it. So it's, so this non-exclusive negotiating period after everybody reported that the Harris bid had been accepted for 5.8 with the 250 million in escrow for, you know, it goes to Snyder as long as they don't have to fight a bunch of Snyder's legal battles, I guess, which by the way, it also ties into indemnification, but I won't even get into that. But I don't, you know, it's been an

awkward process. Everybody has described it that way. People close to the Harris bid have described it as frustrating and awkward and unusual. The fact that Harris sent the bid to the league was unusual. Typically, that's the seller that would do that with the league to say, hey, here's the bid that we want to accept. But this non-exclusive negotiating period has left it open for Snyder to go out and continue to pitch. You know, the Brian Davis thing obviously was laughable. But the Apostolopolis bid appears to be the one that's left that's out there. We don't know if it's, you know, a solid bid or if it's fully funded or if it includes everything that the Harris bid has. But at this point, the theory is this, Abe. He is

wearing us down with this sale process. And I know that it's not like unusually long. These things take a while. On purpose. But he is wearing, he wore us down for 24 years. And now, you know, and he basically made everybody not interested in the team. Two-thirds of the fan base is gone. And he's wearing us down on this thing and he's going to make this non-exclusive thing drop and have it become exclusive like on Thursday when Washington's on the clock Thursday night in the draft and he just wants it to end up being and feeling very anticlimactic so that it's not this massive celebration and I think it's working. So in other words, the Saddam Hussein burned every oil well on his way out of Kuwait strategy.

Yeah, but he's not really burning. He's just making sure that he isn't the object of all of this. Like, this story will be, and we all thought this. Oh, six months ago we thought. He wants to hide behind the news cycle of the draft. Yeah. Yeah, and he's worn us down already with a lot of this stuff. In fact, when the news came out a week and a half ago, it felt,

kind of anti-climactic then, didn't it? Like, I think if we had heard, you know, Bank of America was the last thing we heard, and then the next thing we heard, you know, that was in November, was he has sold the team. There would have been jubilation, there would have been dancing in the streets. Every restaurant and bar would have been offering, you know, drink specials. We wouldn't have actually had a parade. I mean, you really can't pull that off. And by the way, that's kind of mean-spirited, really. But anyway. Oh, please. Well, it is.

He's got a family for crying out loud. I'm not ready to stoop to the, you know, sponsoring a parade. But I would have certainly been at a bar drinking cheap beer and celebrating with fans. But it kind of feels like when we finally get the final news, it's going to be like, yeah, we're expecting it. Yeah. And the other reason that I think it's not been celebratory is that I liken it to coming out of your, you're a storm seller after a bad tornado. Yes, the storm has passed, but you'd take a look around and everything's destroyed.

It's a complete disaster. You look with sober eyes as a commanders fan at all that has to be rebuilt piece by piece, step by step. And that includes the stadium, which is the biggest challenge right there. You know, I mean, wait until the district officials, if you want to build in the district, get in a meeting with Josh Harris and say, I'm sorry, you bought this team for how much money? And you want what from us? Yeah, no.

Because you know that's how they're going to be. You know, they're not going to really bend over. They can say, well, we don't like Snyder. We're not going to work with him. I think they're going to look at a guy that just bought a team for $6 billion as another guy who's got plenty of money to build his own state. I love that analogy because we both love severe weather. So you're in your tornado shelter. Yes.

Do you celebrate when you come out of the tornado shelter? Because you're alive. You're alive. You're thankful you're alive. But you look around and say, holy crap, everything is gone. Think of what Snyder ruined. I mean, it's literally almost everything. Fan goodwill, the fan experience, the stadium prospects for a new place,

respect around the league, the name, the logo, everything. and didn't win a lick in 20-plus years. Not a lick. No 11-win seasons. That's hard to do in this league. Even once you, every now and then you swerve into one where you stay exceptionally healthy and the rest of your division completely tanks, not a one for Dan, as you well know. EF-5.

It was an EF-5 for the last 24 years. Right. So you don't celebrate that. By the way, you say you would not stoop to the level of holding a parade. I actually would have loved to be able to organize a small group or large group, if I could, of people with signs to usher out Dan in his moving van from his mansion. But, A, I don't think he's leaving all of the houses he owns in the D.C. area, I think he'll still have some residents here.

And then secondly, he wouldn't be there. I don't think he's ever going to get. Well, he's not going to be there, right. And you're not going to see a big beacon's moving van. like it's the Colt, heading to Indianapolis. Yeah. But I would love the visual. Like, the visual would be great for me with nothing profane or violent,

because you're right, he does have a family. They don't deserve this, but he deserves it. He definitely deserves it. Yeah, I mean, it's really, I know we've talked about this before, I'm sure we have over the last few months, but you and I are perfect examples, and I know this about you, and I think you know this about me as well. We just don't have the passion for this team that we used to have.

It is a shell. It's a fraction of what it once was. And it's been coming for years. And it wasn't the post stories in 2020 that started it for me. It was long before that. And then losing the name was a deal. I'm not saying it's the massive deal for me, but it was for a lot of people. And it just feels very much.

I've said this many times. Sorry for being repetitive. But it feels like the team that I watched last year was an expansion team. It wasn't my team. Well, yeah, that's what they are. Right. You can say, well, the team still has tradition and the past grades. But then people start to tiptoe around.

They won't call John Riggins a great ex-redskins. Well, I do. People, I know media member. I know I do as well. There are media members. It's almost like a little game. play on my head, where I watch who does or does not refer to old players accurately if and when they played for the Redskins.

And a good number, I'd say 50, 60, 70 percent of media members don't say the word redskins. So now part of your history is being erased bit by bit, and it's only going to get worse as time goes on. So yeah, there's really kind of nothing there. You have to embrace the whole newness of we're starting over, which, by the, by the the way, I said this about Harris, to somebody, I forget who, I said, look, if he gets the team and he has his introductory presser, if he makes any mention of Snyder, much less thanks

him in any way for being, you know, professional or helping to deal with the sale, he will have lost the room. This is the kind of advice that people like us should be giving. to Josh Harris into Mitchell Rails and the Mark Eind into Magic Johnson. You can thank you can thank him privately if you want, but do not mention his name in any sort of positive light. Exactly. I don't care. And I know the way business people work. They want to put that nice bow on a negotiation successfully completed for $6 billion. I get it. That's in their instincts. and in most cases, it's good business.

In this case, it's a terrible business. Do not do it. You will lose the room and you will poison your new possession from the start. At the same time, I would recommend what you said, don't say anything, because if you also throw them under the bus and you're negative, you know, no one ever looks good. Nobody ever looks good attacking somebody else. Here's something else.

suggested last week. I think, and I know that this isn't going to happen. So let me preface it by saying, I know the name is not coming back. Okay. That horse left the barn that got totaled by the tornado when we came out of the shelter. The barn was gone. But if I were them, I would cross every T and dot every eye and looking into the possibility of what it would take to bring it back so they can at least say that we have looked, we are, we are, we are looking at. at everything related to the name in the brand, including the name that was here for 80-something

years. Because that will win the room. You don't need to win the room of writers from outside this market. Okay, nobody cares about them. They've been wrong, they've been fighting this fight on behalf of themselves, not Native Americans,

by the way. Go ahead. It would be a tease, though. That would be another losing. pulling the foot. And you blame the league, and you say the league said that they would not, they advised us that they wouldn't approve it. I appreciate your sentiment there. I don't know if that would hit. I don't know if they would hit the way that you think it would hit. But yeah, it would be nice to be said, yeah, I'm bringing

the name back who's going to stop me. Of course, the league would stop them. Sponsors would stop them. Yeah. The media would lose their ever-loving damn minds. but I do think the name has to go. I think every single person on the building has to go, no matter how diligent or talented or well they're regarded, I really think you have to clean it all out entirely. And by the way, rip up that damn piece of AstroTur from the 1980s that's sitting outside of the headquarters.

I don't care. We're like, well, we've got to get permits for it. It's in the floodplain. Get rid of it. Everything's got to go. All right. My prediction is end of this week. It's wrapped up with Harris. What's your prediction? God, that's an interesting one because I haven't thought timing-wise on this.

When I say wrapped up, I'm not saying it's been voted on by the league's owners. I'm saying that we've got like, in real estate parlance, we've got a ratified agreement. We still have the home inspection and we've got a closing date and it's proceeding and it looks like it'll be find. It's funny you ask me timing on this. To be honest, the only timing I'm concerned about is the Rogers Jet Steel right now, given my current professional situation. So I kind of thought the Harris thing was like, okay, it's done, it's over.

And then I saw the Brian Davis bid, and I heard his calamitous interview with the junkies, which, I don't know, we could do a whole 30 for 30 on that. I assume you listen to it and probably talked about it, right? It was an S&L skit. I mean, basically. Yes, exactly. I have the capital, and we're looking to reinvest. We want liquidity. We want agility. And, you know, all together, we can't lose, junkies. We can't live. I'm like, what are you doing exactly?

How about when he said, his money comes from white people? Jews, he said Jews, Italians and Sicilians. Italians and Sicilians. He knows the difference. So at least given that. Yeah. Yeah, I would hope it would be done this week, but you know what? I'm betting the over. Because like in gambling, when it's over, it's over.

I'm betting the over on this. I'm betting the over on the Rogers to the jet steel as well. I think both these things are going past this week. Well, that's on my list. And let me be clear. When I say it's over, I just, I think we're going to have an some sort of clarity that Harris's bid is the winning bid and the non-exclusive negotiating period is over. And now it's about, you know, it goes to the finance committee. It goes to the owners at the end of May for a league vote.

And that should be more of a formality. All right. Before we get to Rogers, so I haven't talked about this yet. I did on the radio show this morning. So five players got suspended, including Shaka Tony, for betting on football from the Washington team. What's your reaction to players? There's an outcry of hypocrisy from a lot of people about how the league's hypocritical. They're in bed with all of these gambling companies, and yet they are suspending players for a year for betting on football.

What do you think? Yeah. You know what? They're right. But they're the ones who have a union I've heard, and they're the ones that can collectively negotiate terms of employment, or so I've heard. they're the union that was too dumb to see the real corrosive danger of the franchise tag. And I said, you need to go after that thing like a vampire hunter with a wooden stake to the heart. And, you know, DeMora Smith and others were like, no, the franchise tag only affects three to four to five players a year.

And I'm like, you guys are looking at it wrong. The point is the franchise tag could affect any player at any time when they bubble up. to become what would be the most coveted player on the free agent market. So the union are going to have to be the ones that sort of dig into this, but they've been very weak. So, yeah, it is hypocritical. The NFL is making money hand over fifth now in gambling when less than five years ago they shut down Tony Romo's fantasy football conference

in Vegas at a hotel merely because the hotel had a casino. That was attached to the hotel, which is, As you know, Kevin, the best place to put a casino right next to a hotel where you can walk to it. So, yeah, that's my take on that. It is funny. I do love how our boy Tommy love to tweak Leontas. Yeah. Yeah, calling him Aes Rothstein because Bradley Beale got pissed off and slapped the hat off a fan who ripped him for costing him money, betting on games.

and I said, oh, that is so funny. Good for Tommy for that thing. But I'm pro gambling. I'm pro gambling like you are. So all of this to me, I sit in my lawn chair with my lemonade with a smile on my face watching it all wash by. Yeah, I mean, to me, it's like I don't understand why players and some fans don't understand how this thing works.

The league does whatever it is, 16, 17 billion in revenue. and the players get 49% of that. Calvin Ridley got suspended a year ago. If you're too stupid to understand what the rules are after Calvin Ridley got suspended, it's on you. Super not smart. They're super not smart, and they must be terribly bored because how much money were they betting on these games? Yeah, I'm sure they're like, you know, the long-shot 10-team parlays involved, you know, where they're losing, you know, bucks on it. I don't know what they're betting. I have no idea. But the point is, the point is...

James and Williams get clipped because of where he bet. Yeah. Not betting on the league. That's just amazing. The rule about, you know, they can't bet on football, but they can bet on other sports as long as they're not at team facilities. Quite honestly, that doesn't make any sense to me. But the point is, once you have players betting on football games, you now bring in to question the integrity of these contests. And once you do that, you are no longer 16 to 18 billion

because there is no trust in the game. So your 49% stake is in a smaller number moving forward. They are in bed with the owners, Zabe. They share in this. They should understand why this is bad for them and how it ultimately hurts them. Like, even if they bet 10,000 on a game, it's peanuts compared to what their contracts pay them and what their revenue share pays them.

You can't do it. You can't bet on football. They know the rules. If you want to bet on football, don't play in the NFL. Right. Well, if these guys are dumb, dumb enough to be doing this after Calvin Ridley got his penalty, it just tells me that we're headed for at some point a much bigger gambling scandal, wherein a NFL game is actually thrown by a player or a handful of players.

I mean, like, blatantly, wow, dude, you didn't even hide it, kind of thrown. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and that would be massively destructive for the NFL to have what is the most trusted product in so many ways, even though we complain, and everybody's got conspiracy theories, the whole thing. But it is a product that is, you know, unstoppable. So tell me about it. Did you ever see, did you ever see, before we get there in Rogers, did you ever see the, I forget what documentary this is part of? Yeah.

Ronnie Harmon for Iowa in the Rose Bowl. Yes, I did. I can't remember the details of that. He played for Iowa. He fumbled three times in the first half alone when he had only fumbled once during. the regular season or something crazy like that. Right. And it turned out that he definitely was trying to throw the game.

Right. So, yeah, that's the kind of thing that, you know, could happen. Could happen in the near future. All right, Rogers, let's go. What do you got? I got a lot, and we will get to all of that and a lot more right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So let's get to Aaron Rogers, and I'll just ask very simply, is it going to happen?

Yes. I think so. What would change it at this point? Non-committal. Well, okay, so here's the dynamic. It's obviously a pissing match over who's got more leverage, right? And Goodacoon for the Packers thinks, hey, you're the ones who flew out to California.

You're the ones who had Rogers go on McAfee saying, I want to play for the Jets. You're the ones who went out and signed Alan Lazard. It looks like your pot committed. Oh, and by the way, you're the one whose current QB1, aka the Milfunter, has thrown some of the worst interceptions you've ever seen, and you literally, he has no clue this kid, Wilson,

about how to conduct himself as a QB1, by the stuff he says on the podium, after games, after bad losses. So your pot committed, we don't have to pay Rogers until September. That's the Goody stance. That's a hard-line stance. I have been more in the mind of, hey, yeah, you don't have to pay him until September, but the market is one team right now.

If the one team market dries up like a puddle in the sun, then you could be in a real bad spot because Rogers is not going to let you off the hook by retiring and forfeiting $60 million, not after you blew up his chance to go to the jet. He'll be super piff. So what are you going to do then? You're going to carry him on your salary cap this year? you'd have to kick a bunch of money into the future.

You'd have dead caps strung out to 2024, 2025. You'd have an awkward situation where you're paying him, but then he wouldn't be at the facility, keep him away from love. I'm like, by winning this standoff, Goudicun's, it would be a disaster. It'd be a Pyrrhic victory for sure. So you can't let it get to that point. And unless there's another team that Goudicund really has in his back pocket, like the Niners, who say, look, if this.

just deal with the jets falls apart. We're in for X, Y, and Z is compensation. I think he's playing with fire, Kevin. Things change. You're a man who knows business. Deals are deals and they're shook on, but until they're finalized, a lot of them go sideways at the last minute, don't they?

Yeah, I think the way you described it is the Packers not having as much leverage is, to be honest with you, I think they have, because I think the jets are totally in and they're committed and they don't have an answer. the way, they have a chance to be a really good team next year with Aaron Rogers. They are loaded at every other position. It's one of the best young defenses in the NFL. They've got playmakers out the wazoo, you know, and they've just been missing the quarterback. In fact, Zabe, they're very similar to Washington. Washington's got a really good young defense. They've got playmakers. They

just haven't had the quarterback. And so at the end of the day, I think the Jets are going to have to, you know, I mean, isn't there some benefit to Green Bay to waiting until post June 1 or is that a benefit to the Jets? I'm forgetting now. I mean, the worst part for Green Bay is the picks wouldn't be used in this upcoming draft. They'd be next year's picks, but then I thought there was also a benefit to doing it post June 1. There is a cap benefit if you wanted to defer some cap hit to next year, but they don't really want to do that. They want to get this all washed through the system this year. So the post-June 1 cap-cut possibility is not really a benefit. I don't think to the Packers and for other people who know their cap situation.

So there's that. But you were asking about, so forget the post-June 1 thing. I mean, yeah, are you going to get more after the draft? And as you know, picks today are worth more than picks tomorrow, just like money. Well, especially the Jets, if it's a first round pick, it's 13, and next year it won't be. Right. So anyway, I'm like, today on my show, I just said, look, what's good a Coon's trying to do? I said, right now they can get this year's second from the Jets, one of their two seconds,

and next year's second with a condition attached to it, meaning he could float to a one, if Rogers maybe makes the Pro Bowl or takes them to the playoffs or whatever. and you could put a condition downward if Rogers goes and retires and sits in the cave and sucks on Iowa-Losca leaves for the rest of his life, you flip them back a second next year or a third or whatever. Like that deal could be done right now tomorrow. That's a reasonable deal. Two-toos, one this year, one next, be done with it.

So what is Goody trying to do? He's trying to bend a two into a one. And then I went through the Packers draft the last 10 years, and I read the first round pick and the second round pick. And I said, so you're trying to turn a so-and-so. I'm like, you're trying to turn an Elton Jenkins into a darnel Savage. And people are like, wait a minute, Jenkins is the better player, it turns out. And I'm like, yes, he is.

I said you're trying to turn a Devante Adams into somebody else. Adams was the second rounder, and the first rounder turned out to be a bust. I said, when you zoom out and you realize how quickly all these draftics washed down the river, this is not worth effing around about. You know, get it done, get them off the book. give him his day, thank him for all he did for the Packers, and start clean. That's how I'd do it, but we'll see. What is your audience want?

Oh, they want it to be over with. They're done with them. Packer fans, there is a, the dwindling little army of Roger Stans have been driven up into the hills and underground. Wow. Oh, yeah. And I was a very public leader of the Roger Stans for several years. I was like, Rogers today, Rogers, tomorrow, Rogers forever, but that finally changed with each year in which he looked old and cold and small and slow when it mattered the most in January.

And then this latest round of non-committal and the nonsense, he's just gotten weirder and weirder. And it's time. Like it probably, they could have had a haul last year. they could have gotten the Russell Wilson package for him next last year, and they missed it by a year. Yes, I think maybe part of your perspective, too, is one that true Packer fans don't have, and that is you've been in the quarterback wilderness, you know? Yes, and I hammered that home over and over and over and over again, but eventually the wilderness comes for everybody, just like the Patriots are finding out.

All right, so a couple of other things. Tommy and I got into a big argument last week on the podcast. because I'm very much into these NBA playoffs, and I think they have been really, really good. A couple of the games have been spectacular. And, of course, you know, Tommy is of the belief that nothing could match the 1970 NBA finals or 73 finals, whatever that was when, no, 70 when, well, Cap

Willough Reed. A late Willa Freed. So you are doing a radio show in Milwaukee, an NBA market with a number one-seated team. What have you thought of the NBA playoffs so far? Well, not only we super locked in on the box, and thank God Yonis is going to play today or tonight. They need them badly up,

but suddenly this series has gotten very squarely, very quick. But I, as a NBA fan who does not watch hardly any regular season in long form, I'll catch highlights, but really enjoys the theater of the postseason, I've been saying over and over. This first round has been very spicy, very spicy. I've enjoyed the living crap out of it.

This Sacramento Golden State series is Electric Factory, not just without close it's been, not just with the chest stomping and Raymond Green, but the caliber of play. And I think I even tweeted, I said, you know, when these NBA players, when they finally give a shit enough to,

you know, care about the outcomes of the games, they're punching each other in the nuts, it's super a high-level, stuff, man. It's strong medicine. So I've been digging it. Yeah, me too. I don't think there's a bigger difference in sports from regular season to postseason like the NBA. It's a completely different game. Not even close. Did you think Dylan Brooks did that on purpose or not? A thousand percent. It was a transparent nutshot. What,

you're going to pick his pocket through his legs, crossing over, going the other direction. Yeah, you are. Oh, you thought it was a legit attempt. I did not think it was intentional at all. Oh, wow. As a defender, especially one that's handsy and looks for deflections and looks for steals. It's that crossover move where you've got a chance because the ball's exposed. And I thought it was unintentional.

I think you're also underestimating just what kind of sneaky bitches these guys are. Well, he is for sure. When they want to get one in, I think these guys are. sneaky like that. But maybe I'm just prejudiced by the persona he's become. I will say, it's one of the biggest bitch moves to talk big when you're winning and then when something goes bad, you say, I'm not talking to the media. That makes you a capital B bitch. So for Dylan Brooks, face the music when you lose like that. Well, he did kind of face it and saying that he doesn't understand the media reaction of making him into a villain. I mean, he's,

He's created that. I mean, it's the reputation that got him, the flagrant, too, just like it got Dremont tossed from the next game. I didn't think Dremont deserved to be suspended. Yeah. On the Dremont thing, I said, I don't think he deserves suspension because he was grabbed. And when you get off balance like that,

I mean, it's, you know, sometimes he could have followed him during a stop a lot worse, but he was obviously a victim of his past record. I think Brooks was a little bit different. But, you know, these are all like inkblots. They're Roarshock tests to what you see as a fan and who your allegiance is lie with and, you know, who do you like more, who do you hate more, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, I love the Doris Burke line, though, not Tilling Brooks, she said, well, he doesn't really bring scoring to the table.

He doesn't bring athleticism to the table, and he certainly doesn't bring scoring to the table either. And it was like, ow! Oh, man. Yeah, that's like the old John McKay, you know, he's like, well, we threw four interceptions, we fumbled five times, but we made it. up for it with six drop passes. Which was always, he was one of the great quotes of those terrible Tampa Bay Buccaneer teams of

the 70s. Here's a question, here's a question for you. I have buddies on my private text thread who are convinced the league is going to get the Lakers in the finals. And I said, I don't think they can drag them all the way through May to the actual finals. Do you?

So two things. One, on the Dylan Brooks thing, just because it's Lakers-related. I mean, when you get hit in the nuts, that's not the reaction. The reaction usually comes about six or seven seconds later. LeBron is just such a drama queen. I can't stand it. And so I'm rooting very much against the Lakers. But if Anthony Davis plays the way he's played, they have a chance.

I'll tell you this, Zabe, and people that are listening know that I'm like this massive of Kauai Leonard fan. And here he's missed the last two games. But if he did not sprain his knee, I think the Clippers were going to beat the Sons, and then they were going to have a chance to make a run to the NBA finals. I just thought, I think he's one of the great postseason performers of the last 10 years, and yet he can't stay on the floor, and it's kind of sad.

But yeah, they can do it. They can definitely do it. I think Denver's underrated. I think Phoenix has so much scoring, but if Anthony Davis plays consistently like he did the other night, they can make a run. I'm not picking it, but it wouldn't be the biggest stunner of all time.

I'll pick against it just to be on the record that they won't do it. But, man, Anthony Davis, we just have said this so long about him that if he just plays to his potential and he's available and the whole thing, he was unbelievable the other night. Incredible. Yeah, I think that the Sun's desperately needed more incubation time with Durant in the lineup to kind of get a feel for what, you know, works best with him and Booker, like they're still feeling their way through. If you hadn't been hurt, I think they'd be a lot stronger right now.

There are times in which it just seems awkward with the two of them because, you know, who's alpha, who's going to take the big shots down the stretch of the matters. You've got these options. Sometimes to rant the decoy, which makes them ridiculously overpriced and overpriced and overreased and overreesome. over-accomplished decoy because he's such a great player. But yeah, we'll see. It just seems like they never miss. It just seems like they don't miss shots.

All right, great job. Thanks for doing this. I will talk to you tomorrow on yours. All right, thank you. Zabe, everybody. Zab's got a podcast. Of course, you can listen to that wherever you listen to your podcast. It's called The Zabcast.

I'll be on it tomorrow. Back here with me tomorrow. Tommy. Have a great day. Thank you.