The Kevin Sheehan Show - Is DQ Ready To Name JD Starter?

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

Kevin opened with Dan Quinn's answer to the question of whether or not he's seen enough from Jayden Daniels to name him the Commanders' starting quarterback heading into training camp. Plenty on the NBA Finals Game 3 between the Celtics and Mavericks and Luka Doncic in particular. David Falk, one of the greatest sports agents of all time, jumped on with Kevin to talk about many things including his childhood idol Jerry West along with thoughts on Caitlin Clark.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. I ain't a star quarterback, yeah. I got a long way to go. I'm a rookie. I ain't a star quarterback yet.

I got a long way to go. I'm a rookie, said Jaden Daniels yesterday at the end of mini camp day number two. At the end of mini camp day number three, which was the final day of mini camp today out in Ashburn. The new head coach, Dan Quinn, held a press conference in which he was asked about whether or not he's ready to name Jaden Daniels the starting quarterback for the upcoming season. You'll hear what Dan Quinn said coming up in moments. The show, as always, is presented by Windonation. Give them a call at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name for a free, no obligation in home quote.

Falk is going to be on the show today. I reached out to David actually yesterday to have him on to talk about Jerry West in his passing yesterday. And David told me he'd love to come on because Jerry West was his childhood idol. They obviously worked together a whole lot during David Fox's years with so many NBA clients as one of the most prominent sports agents of all time. We've had David on the show before. He's a great storyteller with a great memory.

David Falk coming up on the show. So Dan Quinn did talk today at the final day of minicamp. And there are two sound bites that I'm going to play for you. The first of which deals with Jaden Daniels. And you'll hear the question about, you know, the back and forth of taking four. first team reps so far between Marcus Marriota and Jaden Daniels and whether or not Jaden Daniels has made enough progress to sort of get to that point where, you know, you can name

him starter. So here's the question and here's Dan Quinn's answer. Early on in camp, Marcus Mariotto was taking most of the reps with the ones as we've gotten a little further in many camp. It seems Jaden is taken over. In your mind, is Jaden the starter? And do you expect as we get to training camp, then he'll get most of the work with the ones? Well, in true competition, that's why we set it up as we did to have Marcus have some and Jaden to have some. So no great declarations other than being true to who we are. As competitors, there's no doubt that Jaden's making unbelievable progress here. And we'll have a really fun camp.

But he's earned that opportunity to go compete. We wouldn't have given him those spaces and those times and those reps if he hadn't. But it was really clear that he's put in the work and he was ready to do that. So it was by intention for sure that he was able to do that. So no great declarations from Dan Quinn today on naming Jaden Daniels, the starting quarterback, heading into training camp. He did say, however, quote, Jaden's making unbelievable progress here, closed quote. You know, on one hand, I don't think I would have been totally floored if Dan Quinn had said, stood up there and answered that question with, you know what? We've been with Jaden for a month

and a half. We've been through rookie minicamp, OTA days, and mandatory minicamp. He's made incredible progress. He was our number two overall pick. He is certainly lived up to what we thought we would be getting when we drafted him. And we think it makes sense to name him starting quarterback heading into training camp right now and give him all of the work, which, the number ones, you know, over the month of August through those preseason games and heading into our 20-24 season. We think that makes the most sense. We love Marcus. Marcus is a veteran quarterback. He's a great mentor and he'll be there for Jaden when Jaden needs him and when the team needs him. But yeah, thanks for asking that question. We are ready to say that Jaden Daniels is

our number one quarterback when we get back here to begin training camp. I would not. have been floored by that. I mean, Chicago named Caleb Williams the starter before rookie minicamp started. Now, their situation slightly different because they don't have a veteran quarterback on the roster like Washington does in Marcus Marietta. I'm fine with them not naming Jane Daniels, the starting quarterback now. I think he will be named the starting quarterback at some point during training camp, and he will get every first team rep. And he will get every first team and we'll start as the preseason games get underway. But whether it's a true competition or not,

they need to create the culture of competition. Legit competition, the quarterback situation is always different, especially when you draft a quarterback at number two overall and a quarterback that comes in with tremendous college experience. And so far, by the way, we haven't heard one thing about Jaden Daniels that is even slightly constructively critical. It's all been super positive, but I'm fine with the way Dan Quinn answered the question. And again, if he had actually announced Jaden Daniels as the starting quarterback heading into training camp,

I don't think it would have been the most shocking thing in the world. There was one other Dan Quinn soundbite that I wanted to play for you from earlier today. JP was asking him about specific guys on the defensive side of the ball who have stood out. You know, a lot of times you'll get the coach or players not to give you specific names. But when you do get specific names, you know that those players have stood out observationally to coaches or to teammates. I had Sam Cosmy on the radio show yesterday, and he flat out said, you know, Frankie Louvo, really impressive. He also mentioned Diami Brown as somebody who's had a good offseason to date. Sometimes you just get kind of a general overall answer on how the defense is doing, which is exactly the way Dan Quinn answered the question initially,

but JP pressed him a little bit, and he gave you some names. I wanted you to hear that question and answer. Here it is. You've always kind of used versatile players in different spots. Has anybody emerged where you look like, all right, that guy can be a linebacker, you can also be a pass rusher, maybe he can help us on tight end coverage, all those sorts of things. I would say some of what I was hoping to see I did, and maybe that's with chin. I would say it's been good to see Martin, you know, some down in the box, but some has a middle field safety.

Louvoo, although I knew that was a part of his game, I'd say it was probably even stronger than I thought. So those would be some that jump out to me. And now on the offensive side, we've worked, you know, self-receivers who could move into the backfield and vice versa. So, yeah, it's an ongoing process. But sometimes you just try it, take a look, and not. Same thing with the kick return. So the head coach gave you some names there. The question more specifically was about, you know, defensive players with versatility.

and the names of some of those players who have really emerged. And he mentioned Jeremy Chin first and then Kwan Martin. And then he talked about the guy that everybody's been talking about, Frankie Louvo, the free agent signing from the Carolina Panthers. And he said about Louvoo, I knew that was a part of his game. I'd say it was probably even stronger than I thought in terms of his versatility. Look, we've seen Kwan Martin play in a couple of spots.

and I think we understood his versatility as a guy that can play in the box or cover. Jeremy Chin was brought in with that idea, a guy that can cover and a guy that can also be aggressive as an in-the-box safety. Louvo, as a linebacker, you know, we know about his pass rushing prowess. And this is a guy that is going to be used as a pass rusher, you know, along with, you know, the guys that they signed up front like arms, and Fowler Jr. in Cleland Farrell, but perhaps Jamon Davis as well. Or a guy like Jordan McGee, you know, the rookie fifth rounder from Temple, who has so far been very impressive to a lot of people

out there with his knowledge, IQ, but athleticism overall. By the way, I thought it was interesting that he went to offense, and he said, you know, on the offensive side, there are some receivers who could move into the backfield and vice versa. You know, some versatility with some of the receivers. Then he, by the way, talked about, you know, same thing with the kick return. You know, receivers that can go into the backfield. Well, he's not talking about Terry. I don't think he's talking about Luke McCaffrey. I don't

think he's talking about Diami Brown. He could be talking about Jahan. He could be talking about Crowder or the free agent signing from Philadelphia, Olamidi, Zicke. Keas, the kid who played in Atlanta a couple of years ago. He could be talking about a guy like Kaz Allen, whose name has popped up as a potential returner. He, you know, last year was thought to be a possibility as a returner, but kick returners will have much more value this year. I also thought of Armani Rogers, a guy who the last regime thought they could get a lot out of before he got hurt and they thought was tremendously versatile, much more of a person. past catching tight end, but he certainly doesn't look like a tight end frame-wise. And he played

quarterback in college. They've got some versatility on both sides of the ball with players. I mean, you even think about a guy like Austin Echler, you know, he can run the ball on first down if you needed him to. He can also split out wide as a wide receiver. You know, Brian Robinson, Jr. proved last year he can really catch the football and he's got more versatility. It's going to be interesting to watch Cliff Kingsbury put it all together on offense. Brown runs into Dachich blocking foul, and that's it. He's fouled out. Luca Dantich has fouled out with 412 remaining. So shifting gears here in just a bit here on game three of the NBA finals last night.

Luca Dantzich fouling out for the first time in his career in a postseason game. He deserved it. Boston won the game 106 to 99 to go up 3-0 in these NBA finals. This series is over. Boston will either clinch tomorrow night or Monday night. Their 18th franchise title, that'll be a record. They are tied currently with the Lakers, each franchise having 17 NBA championship titles. But look, the storyline last night was Luca Donchich.

going into the game, it was Kyrie Irving. Would he bounce back? Would he play better? He had 35 points. I actually thought he could have had more. He missed some easy shots. He was much more aggressive. Jason Tatum was part of the storyline going in. Would he bounce back with a solid game on the road? He did. He had 31. He had 20 in the first half. Porzingis did not play. It was a big factor early on for Boston on the defensive end, as Dallas took an early 13-point lead in the game. But Boston is just so much better. They're just better. They're more experienced.

They're a better basketball team, in part because Dallas is just so iso-reliant, and you just can't be ISO-reliant at this time of the season. You're in the NBA finals. ISO teams, primarily ISO teams that rely on, you know, one to two to three players to create, to score, to create for others, but not by making a defense move, by not by, you know, reversing the ball a couple of times before one of your playmakers can attack a defense that isn't so set. it's just kind of painful to watch. And Boston's so good defensively with all of their players, especially on the ball. It's just very difficult for the Mavericks to score. They have not scored over 100 in this series.

Boston's just better. They attacked Luca all night on the defensive end. They've done that now for three straight games. In fairness, he's not healthy. You know, he had another pain injection shot last night. You know, he's got a shoulder. he's got a knee, he's got a rib issue. He's not healthy.

He's not the worst defender I've ever seen. This idea three weeks ago, two weeks ago, Luke is the best player in the NBA. He's the best, you know, and he hadn't won a ring yet. I thought it was premature talk then. And he's not anywhere near a great two-way player. So look, he's a magical offensive player. He's great.

as an offensive player. He's different as an offensive player. He is truly as an offensive score and creator top three in the game. No doubt, in my opinion. Is he the best player in the game? No. He hasn't won a ring. This is a sport that judges based on rings because players have more impact on an NBA floor than they do on an NFL field or they do in baseball, though I guess you could make the case for a pitcher. but he doesn't have a ring. He's not going to get one now. I don't know if they'll get one if they continue to play this heavy ISO-style basketball, really tough against a good defensive team to make that work. And look, he's just not a great defender. He just isn't. The game last night was weird in that Dallas had a 13-point first quarter lead. They were taking advantage of Porzingis not being there. And then the third quarter, Boston, was just sensation. 35 to 19, they outscored the Mavericks.

They took a 21-point lead early in the fourth quarter, and then they went stagnant. Dallas and Kyrie and company got hot, and they came back. PJ Washington started to knock down shots, and they got the lead to within three at 93 to 90. But Luca fouled out, and there was a lot of drama around that. And Brian Windhorst from ESPN was on with Scott after the game. And I'm going to let you listen to what he said because this is a true takedown of a star player.

I've been talking about the whining and the complaining and the bitching. He is all-time whiner. He's near the top of the list, basketball-wise. We did calls on this on radio this morning. John McEnroe is the all-time, you know, complainer, crybaby whiner. Also one of my favorite athletes of all-time, as an aside. But Luca is just, we've been talking about this for a while. It's just such nonstop nonsense.

I think it's detrimental to himself and to his team. There are too many times he's not back on defense because he's bitching and whining to a referee after not getting a call on the offensive end and they give up something easy on the defensive end. There's a lot of that with the international players. I mean, Yokic complains a lot. You know, you get the soccer flopper,

and whiners, and that's what they're used to around the rest of the world. Not that, you know, players like Rashid Wallace and LeBron James and many others who are American-born are immune to that kind of behavior. But this guy is a rare, special kind of whiner and complainer. And Brian Windhorst, who I actually think does a really good job covering the sport, you know, especially in recent years when it's become a little bit less all about the relationship he had with LeBron. But this is what he said on Scott's show after the game last night. Yeah, I thought it was perfect that Luca fell onto the ground there in an unacceptable position to put himself in with four minutes left with five fouls.

And then immediately looks at the bench and says you better bleeping challenge it as if it's the bench's fault that he just made a terrible play. I'm standing here in the Mavericks Tunnel. Over there is the Celtics Tunnel. That's where the winners are. If Luca's ever going to be a winner coming out of this tunnel here, he is going to have to use what's happened in this finals as a learning experience. His defensive performance is unacceptable. He is a hole on the court. The Celtics are attacking him.

They are ahead in this series because they have attacked him defensively. And you've got a situation here where Luca is complaining about the officiating. They have begged him. They have talked with him. They have pleaded with him. He is costing his team because of how he treats the officials. He's a brilliant player. He does so many things well.

They are here because of how he did. His performance in this game is unacceptable and the reason why the Mavericks are not going to win. He's got to get over this. And the fact that he came out after the game and blamed the officials showed me he's nowhere close yet. So maybe over the summer somebody will get to him because nobody with the Mavericks or anybody else in his life has.

And that's where the Mavericks are at this point. They're never going to get to this tunnel with the trophy if he doesn't improve those aspects of his game. Brian Winters, ESPN, windy, as the people at ESPN refer to him. Well said. I did not know and had not heard or read that Dallas has begged and pleaded with him to change his behavior. It is detrimental to the team. There's no doubt about that. I think it's detrimental to him. You know, some might say he uses it. You know, it's fuel. It's the chip on the shoulder. It's the whole thing. The problem with him, it's not occasional.

It's not even like frequent. It's constant. It's nonstop. It's a commitment he makes from the opening tip until the final horn to complain and whine and bitch at the referees after every single shot attempt, whether he makes it or misses it. And they just have had it. You can tell there is just a wearing out of the referee crews where he is not going to get the superstar treatment if he continues to be at this kind of, you know, consistent whiner. He's not super abrasive.

You know, he's not Rashid Wallace. He's not, you know, Draymond Green. but it's just wearing on these officials you can tell. And I think it's detrimental to him and his team. And I think somebody's going to have to get to him in the offseason and say, you know, like they used to with John McEnroe years ago. I mean, it never worked. But you're going to perform better.

You're going to win more if you can cut this out of your game and focus on just playing. I think the other thing that Wendy said that I don't totally agree with, them targeting Luca defensively is not why Boston's up in this series. It's a part of it, no doubt. Boston's defense has been outstanding. They're on ball defense in particular. They don't have to help a lot.

They're just better. They've run into the Mavericks have into a team that can guard their playmakers with multiple people. so if you switch, it doesn't matter. You got somebody else on you that can guard you and slow you down a little bit. And worry out. You know, when you play ISO ball for 48 minutes and you're constantly looking for the switch and the matchup, and it's so hard to score, you wear yourself out.

Bob Myers, you know, the search committee member for the commanders who was on that pregame halftime post game on ABC said at halftime, he goes, when the ball sticks as much as it does, with Luke and Kyrie, and my God, they dribble the air out of the ball. It's just so much more difficult to score against a really good defensive team, and eventually you just wear yourself out, whereas Boston is constantly reversing the ball from one side of the floor to the other, making defenses move. And, yeah, all right, that's it.

You don't have to watch Game 4 tomorrow night. That's not assignment material right now. I'll call Tommy and tell him he doesn't have to watch game four. He's not going to watch it anyway. David Falk next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Down to the final four in the NBA playoffs, guys. It's Minnesota and Dallas out west, Indiana, and Boston in the east. I've got a way that will make watching these games more exciting.

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Jumping on with us right now is David Falk, one of the most prolific sports agents of all time, as most of you know. one of the most important and influential people in sports for the better part of the last half century. Michael Jordan's agent, of course, and a major part of what Michael Jordan's career became off the court. You know, I reached out to you yesterday because of the passing of Jerry Weston. I thought you would have really good insight on him as a front office exec, having worked with him. and when we spoke briefly last night, you said, I want to come on. I want to talk about Jerry West.

He was my guy. He was my favorite player growing up. So let's start there. You're a kid from Long Island. I'm assuming you were a big Knicks fan growing up. Jerry West, though, was your guy. Why? I did grow up on Long Island.

And when I first started following basketball, NBA basketball is probably 13 years old. And maybe one of the first games I saw was probably a Laker Celtic game. I just fell in love with Jerry West. I loved his competitiveness. I loved his style. And most of all, I loved his ability in crunch time to really step up his game. That's why they called him Mr. Clutch. And so I'd never rooted for the Knicks.

I became a really ardent Laker fan and really rooted for the Lakers until I, from the time I was 13, until I got in this business. at age 24. Really? So give me some of your memories early on of Jerry West. I mean, what year was it when you saw the Celtics Lakers?

I'm assuming one of the NBA finals games. Do you remember which year it was? Probably 1963-04. I can't say for certain. 63-04. And it was funny because my younger brother, Mitch, he adopted every team

that was the art tribal of the teams I before. So I love the Lakers. He became a Celtic fan. I love the Cowboys. He became a Packer fan. I love the Dodgers. He became a giant fan. So almost every year in that period of time, as you know, the Lakers and the Celtics got

to the finals, and apparently the Celtics would win. And I was just heartbroken. Not as heartbroken as my idol. I mean, you could see the strain, the deep level of disappointment. New Jersey West,

was not simply a great player. He was arguably one of the two best general managers to history of basketball along with that hour back. And he was a man of a singular integrity. You know, in business, a lot of times people say to you, you know, my handshake is a contract. My word is by bond. Many years ago, this is probably take back when it was, 1986. The draft, MDA draft was on Tuesday. And on Thursday, Jerry called me, and he said, David, there are a lot of rumors floating around the lead that we're going to trade James Worthy, who is my client.

And I'm just calling you because I want you to call James and tell him that he's not going to be traded. I said, Jerry, look, I really appreciate the call. But, you know, James is an incredibly mature individual, and he doesn't worry about those kinds of things. You're not listening to me. I just want you to call him and tell him you spoke to me, and he's not going to be traded. I said, okay, it was that important to be all called. So I called James, and he sort of played it down, betrayed the part of the league. Monday night, I showed for the draft with Coach Thompson.

He was going to do the color for TNT, I believe. And we walked into the restaurant, and there were two very large tables. one had Magic Johnson's Asian, George Andrews, and the other had Roy Tarp was Asian. His name was Barry Wether. And George Andrews comes up to me and says, it's going to be a huge trade tonight. I can't tell you what it is, but you're going to hate it. So, you know, we walk to our rooms on the way to the elevator. John says to me, what do you think that guy was talking about?

I said, I have no idea, but I promise you I'm going to find out before the draft bar. So I was up all night at 3 o'clock in the morning. I learned that the Lakers were going to trade James Worthy to the Dallas Mavericks for Mark McGuire. It was Magic's buddy and represented by George. I called up Jerry West. I was really upset. And I said, Jerry, I just want to ask you one question. We've had a great relationship.

Does your word mean anything to you? And he said, David, I gave him my word. my resignation is on jury bus desk. I told him if you trade James Worthy, I'm quitting. And because of the importance Jerry had to the franchise, bus called up the owner of Dallas and called off the trade. Now, when you say your word means something, and you're willing to put your career,

a Hall of Fame career in the line, that I loved the guy before that, after that, my admiration doubled, you know, tripled. And then the guy was just an incredible human being. And a lot of people have asked me, did you watch the show on HBO about

the Lakers? Right. And I said, the minute I heard that they were, you know, trashed Jerry West, I wouldn't watch it. I think so much of the man that I literally didn't watch it. It might have been the best show in history of television, I wouldn't watch it because of the feelings I had for Jerry.

Wow, so that trade, yeah, because Magic and Aguire were close. You know, Aguier was a great player in his own right, but he would not have fit in to the showtime up and down the floor. Lakers, I mean, Worthy was such a great player on the wing on the fast break. I don't know that Aguier would have been that player. I think Borg was a very good player. I wouldn't say he was a great player. James Worthy was a great play. And what the best part, James Worthy, by the way, is the answer to, I'm going to ask you,

the answer to a trivia question, who was the only player in the history of the NBA to ever be drafted as the number one pick of the draft by a team that just won the championship? And the answer is James Worthy. How did the Lakers have that pick? I think they traded Don Ford to Cleveland. Okay.

And then they also had the number one pick three years earlier for Magic by trading Gail Giverich to the New Orleans jazz before they moved to Utah. But James was the man when he was like an eighth grade in Gastonia, North Carolina. He had a really incredible level of confidence and maturity. Now, think about this in today's NBA. James Worthy on the Showtime Lakers was arguably one of the best 10 at the time. the worst 20 best players in the league. But he was only the third best player in his team because he happened to play with

Kareemountville. Today, today, that player would demand a trade because he would want to beat the man. He wouldn't accept that he's the number three guy. He was that talented. James understood that he was going to get incredible passes

from Irvin. He was going to have a great backup defensive green. It was a perfect fit. you know in the playoffs in that era, James really listed up his game. His nickname was Big Game, James. He was the MVP of one of those finals. Right. He didn't worry what his scoring average was. He just wanted to help the Lakers win.

And that trade Jerry knew would have been a disaster. You know what? From that era, let me just ask you this question. If Byrd had not been taken in that 78 draft with that, you know, the, the, the, the Red Hour back figured out a way to draft him a year early. I forget what the circumstances were around that. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you what the circumstances.

So back then, back then, in order for a player to be draft eligible, if he had remaining college eligibility, he didn't have to do anything. If his high school class had graduated college four years down the road, he was eligible for the draft. Now, Byrd Starter's career at Indiana University, played a very brief period of time, quit, and then went to Indiana State. So with the sixth pick in the 78 draft, our back draft it heard. Because of that and because of how great a player Larry Byrne was, they changed the rule

and said that if you have remaining collegiate eligibility, in order to be drafted, you have to renounce your collegiate eligibility. Right. My question, though, is let's just say that he had come out after his, you know, year at Indiana State, which would have been the same year with Magic in 1979. Magic was the first pick overall by the Lakers. Who do you think would have been the first pick in that draft, had Bird been in that draft? Magic.

No, I do. I think, you know, I think Bird's a great player. Bird actually had finished it. So Bird went back. Bird did go back. Yeah, he went back. He played Magic in the finals. 79.

79. I mean, either one would have been an amazing pick. But, you know, back then, there was a strong bias against, like, smaller programs. You know, Michigan State was Big Ten. Indiana State was probably Missouri Valley, if I had a guess. Who cares?

They both became great players. They had a lifelong rivalry. Both really great people had an amazing role in growing league. at a difficult time. And I think the fifth for Irvin in L.A. with Showtime and Pat Raleigh, you know, was made in heaven. And I think the fifth for Bird in Boston was made in heaven. Now, if you really, the ironic thing of my opinion of both those players, if you look at the teams that they both played on from 79, let's say, for the next 10 years, to show you how the NBA has changed. the ninth guy on the Celtics when they won the title,

I'm going to say 86, was Bill Walt. All the fame player, dear friend of mine, it just died tragically. And the number of the nine guy in the Lakers was a four-time NBA scoring chip named Bob McAdoo. Now, both of them were at the senior part of their career, but in today's NBA, both those guys would probably be the second at the worst, third, best players of the team. And they weren't even starters. Yeah. I mean, you said Walton was the ninth player on that team.

He was the first guy off the bench on the 86 team. But he wasn't the sixth best player. He was the sixth best player that one year because he stayed healthy. Bill was a great player, but his career was cut short by so many unfortunate foot injuries. And McAdoo is an amazing player. Of course. The Showtime show that you didn't watch because of the way that Jerry West was depicted, You know, a big part of the early episodes of that show is the disagreement over Magic Johnson

and whether or not to draft Magic Johnson. He was a guy that Jerry Buss, who had just taken over the Lakers, desperately wanted. And it reveals that West was not a big fan of drafting Magic number one overall. Do you know if that's true or not? I highly doubt it. but that's why movies in Hollywood you have stuff that goes on behind closed doors.

I highly doubt that Jerry I'm going to tell you something, okay? Jerry West is from West Virginia, from Cabin Creek, West Virginia. That's his second nickname, Zeke from Cabin Creek. And he went to the University of West Virginia who is the all-time leading score.

They had two other great players, Rod Thorne, who's the GM, who drafted Michael Jordan, and Hot Rod Humming. and one day I'm on a flight and I bump into a man whose name was Freddie Shouse. Freddie at the time was the GM of the Lakers, and he was Jerry West, college coach. And he told me that in college, after Jerry's freshman year, that if they had a recruit come on campus, they would have a visit with Jerry because Jerry at 2019 and 20 years old was such an incredibly astute judge of talent

that they wanted Jerry to sign off on their recruits before they offered them a scholarship. Wow. And I think in the history of the NBA, if you would have picked two men who had an incredible vision for talent, I would say right our back in Boston and Jerry Weston.

He just had a pre-ternatural, you know, view of talent, and how the pieces fit together. Before we get to more of your dealings with him over the years, but just, you know, that must have been painful as a Lakers fan and as a Jerry West fan. And with a brother who was rooting for the opposite, all of those losses to the Celtics before they finally won it, right? And it wasn't against Boston. It was against the Knicks in 72. But was there one of those finals losses that hurt more than any other? Was it the 69 series?

weren't they up 3-1 in that series? I think whatever the one was with Don Nelson shot. Yeah, 69. Hit the rim, bounced off the backboarder, bust it. It was sort of like the shot that... Kauai Leonard. When Philly lost to Toronto, you know, just seemed to last. But for me, they're all painful because I truly love the Lakers.

And after Jerry, I loved Elgin Baylor, you know, sort of the precursor to Michael. It was just a great team. It was a great team. And it's just, Jerry, I think one year he averaged 40 points a game in the playoffs. The guy just lifted his game. He was a great rebounder. He was a great defender.

He played the passing lanes. And he was just a great all-around player. And I think equally an equally great general manager. I mean, he built a dynasty in L.A. Yeah. So let's talk about it. him as a general manager and your dealings with him. You've already shared the one story about the 86 draft. You know, whenever I hear the 86 draft, I think of Len bias and the tragedy that

happened two days after that. So tell me, you consider he and our back to essentially be the greatest, you know, or keenest evaluators of all time. Give me some stories from dealing with him as an executive with some of your players that stand out. I'll tell you what interesting story. So as I got into sort of the prime of my career, you know, I realized that our clients were making a lot of money. They were the highest paid players in the league. And in certain situations, a player would be on a team,

and it just wasn't working out. He wasn't going to win on that team. One example, we didn't sign him as a rookie. We signed him as a veteran. player named Glenn Rice, who went to Michigan, won the National Championship in 89. Great shooter, great guy. And he's playing for Charlotte.

And whatever the All-Star gave was in Charlotte in that period of time, I think he scored 24 points in the first quarter. I think it was the all-time record for scoring. But Charlotte just wasn't winning. One day said to, you know, Glenn, you won a championship of college, you're not getting any younger. I want to put you on a team where you can win. And so I did some homework, got permission from the owner of the Hornets,

and first call was to Jerry West. And as a jury, you know, based on what you have, you know, I think Glenn would be a great fit. So I love Glenn Rice. And I called Glenn back and said, what do you think about the Lakers? So what are you nuts? I'm going to be like the third or fourth guy in the Lakers. I'm the man in Charlotte. I said, really?

And so when the playoffs come, what does the man mean when you're sitting on your couch watching the playoffs of the Lakers and the finals? And it took six months. You know, most players are like that. They get very comfortable where they are. They love being the center of attention. And they don't realize that the clock is ticking, that they only have so many years to win a title. And Jerry and I persevered, and they finally traded for him. and he won a championship the second year there,

and I took him to the restaurant in L.A., the famous restaurant in the media go to the chairman of the right in barrel of the and he kissed me on my bald head, said, God, thank you, thank you for being so stubborn. He said, I never would have done that, and it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah, that was the first of three in a row, right, in 2000, I think, for the Lakers.

It was great. Yeah, go ahead. I mean, he drafted a player we had right around 86, might have been 86, named Earl Jones of the University of District. Yeah, D.C. Yeah. Tremendous, tremendous talent, raw, really slim. I'll tell you, one of the memories I have that stands out for me about Jerry West, it's just humorous. It's not about his talent. You know, it's just sort of where the NBA was or where it is today.

So when Earl Jones came out, he probably weighed 210, he was like 611, 2.10. you know, the NBA was getting very physical. And Jerry said to me, you know, David, we're going to draft him, and I trust you, but we're going to have to really get him a great trainer. He's going to have to gain some weight, obviously gain a lot of strength. I said, Jerry, couldn't agree more. We're on it. Now, if I took you back, that was 86.

If I took you back 20 years to 73, I started the 74. The Lakers drafted another local player from American University named Carmel Washington. Yeah. And Kermit went from 6-4-180 to 6-8-180. He was a great jumper, but he was skinny, and didn't really have a footwork to play. And he went to Pete Newell, who's then the GM of the Lakers, and asked Newell he thought he was going to lose his place in the league.

He was the third-string center behind Jabbar and a guy from Michigan who was a fifth round pick named C.J. Kouper. And Kermit went to Noll and said, Mr. Newell, please teach me how to play. I can jump and I can run, but I can't play. So, you know, had him start getting stronger. Jerry was the coach at the time. He would call me and said to me, David,

does Kermit think this is the freaking NFL? Tell him to quit lifting weights. He's not going to be able to shoot. And that was the, it wasn't Jerry. That was the prevailing mentality in basketball. Right. Was the player. Now, today, if you had a player who didn't left weights,

he would be able to play. Yeah. You know, no team. He wouldn't be strong enough. He wouldn't have the endurance to play, you know, heavy minutes. And, you know, I had so much admiration. Jerry could have told me almost anything. You know, at that point, I was by 20s, and it was like getting called from God.

You know, Corbett, I said, Corbett, you've got to start lifting weights. And we always had an amazing relationship. Just I really respected his opinion. He was extremely opinionated, which I respect. A lot of people behind your back will say one thing into your face. They'll say another. Jerry was very direct. If he had something, it was on his mind.

One year, the year Michael got hurt, Michael George got hurt, and broke his foot. I bumped into the jury at the all-stroke gear. And like a volcano, he points his finger at my chest, and he says, David, if you let Michael come back this year, I'm going to shoot him. I hadn't even thought about him coming back. you know, I didn't know how serious the injury was, how long it would take the heel. And he understood because he was Jerry West, another great player, that Michael's competitiveness would drive him to come back as soon as he could. Right.

And then he was risking his entire career. It was very serious. He broke his norovicular bone. There's only four bones in your entire body that have no independent blood supply, two in your wrist, two in your feet, the norvicular bones. And so he was concerned that, you know, team would pressure in the player,

Michael would feel his own internal pressure to play. And really, it's like a wake-up call to me. The next day I called the owner and said,

Jerry, used to tell Michael he can't come back this year. He said, what you want to have to do with that decision? I said,

no, no, you know how Michael is. He's so competitor. And it's going to be a gray editor. Certain people say he's ready. Certain people say he's not.

And the whole franchise is riding on this guy's life. And that came from Jerry West. So I had so many interactions with the man over time. I just, I tremendously respected him. I loved the guy because, you know, not because he was the GM or because he averaged a lot, because as a kid, he was, you know, we all have childhood idols. He was my boyhood idol, and that occupied a very special position of my heart. Did he know that? of my life. Yes, I told him many times.

And he used to laugh and say, he used to joke of me. I wish you'd be a little younger and represented me. I said that, I said that makes two of us. Well, you said that you just said he was incredibly opinionated. You are as well. Did you ever butt heads? Yeah, occasionally. I mean, listen, I think you, I think any two people that are intelligent and direct, candid,

a bit about his, because you're invariably, you're not going to always agree. But when you have something who you really respect, it makes you really think through your opinion carefully to evaluate, you know,

whether, how you feel, you know, sort of like the situation with Michael. It wasn't like I disagree with him. I hadn't even thought about it. And he was so strident. It was like something slapping in the face and say,

like wake up. And he was right. The irony is right. And Michael did come back. he did come back early and played great after the game. He had 63 against the Celtics in the playoffs. By the way, you mentioned a name from the past, Kermit Washington, and he was lifting weights.

I'm sure Rudy Tomjanovitch wishes that he wasn't lifting weights too much. But I'm curious from that incident, for those that don't know, there was a game in which Rudy Tomjanovich, there was a scuffle that broke out. He turned around. He swung. and he just knocked out Rudy Tomjanovich, he was injured and hospitalized in the whole thing. Did those two ever make up?

Did they ever get together and discuss what happened? I don't know anything about the aftermath of that. They did. This is a really, really interesting slice of life of the NBA. So in 1977, the national player of the year was a gentleman named Marcus Johnson from the SLA. And we happen to represent Marcus in the draft that year. We represented Marcus at 3, Kenny Carr from the Cstate is 6, Bernard King, 7, and Tom McGar from Carolina at 9. And so the very first game of the season is the Lakers at Milwaukee.

So I went to see Kermit and Kenny Carr and Marcus. So the day before the game, I'm staying at the famous Fister Hotel in downtown Milwaukee, a beautiful, classic hotel. and Kent Benson, who won the national ship, Indiana, the last undefeited team in NCAA history in 1976. They had five picks in the draft that year, Quinn Baxter, Bobby Walkerson, Scott May was the number two pick, the year before. Anyway, so Corrine is having lunch,

and he's reading the Milwaukee, whatever the name in the newspaper, is Gazette. And Benson's doing an interview, and Besson says it was in the interview, I'm playing against arguably the greatest center in the NBA and whatever I've got to get his respect whatever it takes to get his respect

that's what I'm going to do so the third play of the game one minute 18 into the game Corrine Leakers are on offense and Benson is front and Corrine the ball comes into the post and Benson swings his elbow as hard as he can

and it's Jabbar the solar place that knocks out. And when Jabari gains his breath, he takes a roundhouse from the floor, knocks, prevents into the air, and that his career was essentially old. About three months later, the Lakers are playing Buffalo,

which is now the clippers. Power forward on Buffalo was another client of ours from Notre Dame, John Schumet, big, strong guys in New Jersey. And they got into a scuffle, Kermit and John, and Kermit knocked them out, and the entire Buffalo team jumped on his back. Okay. Now, fast forward a couple of months later, Houston's playing the Lakers in Houston.

Kermit is guarding another one of our clients named Kevin Kooner, big center from Iowa. And back then, Big Men would tell you that if you were a big guy and your opponent is beating you down court, You grab this jersey and, like, fling you, I call it drafting, like in racing, where you stay in the guy, right behind the guy. And so Coonut beat Kermit down court. Kermit grabbed his jersey. And while he's grabbing and holding onto it, Kooner's elbow him in the face. And literally, they get to center court like it was staged. And right at center court at, like, the third elbow, Kermit just knocks Koonut out cold at center court.

Bewhile Houston's conned down court on a three-on-one fast break led by another one of our clients. John Lucas. He's in one corner. Rudy T's in the other corner, and Bobby Joe reads in the third quarter. So Lucas makes the lie up. The three of him turn around. And Rudy sees his team at Kevin a line unconscious at center court. And he comes from the corner in his red jersey. He's running in Kermit. Kermit doesn't see him, but through the back of his eye, he sees a big red blur. And he coils his fist because he does want to have a repeat of what happened in Buffalo. of. And, you know, the expression of the perfect storm, if it happened a thousand times, he wouldn't hit him as flush as he hit him. It's just like the perfect punch. And it caused

severe damage to lose his face to his sinuses. And they made their piece, you know, in the last few years. It was a terrible thing. It was the stigma that Kerman had for the rest of his life in the NBA. And ironically, they both, Kermit, and Kevin Cooner both met up on the same year ago Clippers before they moved to L.A. And they both got traded to Portland. They stayed together for like the next three and four years. Corbett always do was David Stern's machinations

to try to have it together as a push to a part. It was a terrible, it was a terrible incident, a terrible chapter in Carmen's life, so when he paid dearly for it, I love Kerman. And I think Rudy is a great super guy. It was just one of those unfortunate wrong places in a long time. But you said they made their piece of what you said in recent years? Did it take that long?

Yeah, but probably the last, probably, yes, because the damage is so severe. And basically, I did Rudy's career. Yeah. Yeah, it did. Of course, you know, two-time championship coach. but yeah. By the way, you forgot to mention the Kareem Punch at Kemp Benson. Kareem broke his hand and was out for like three months on the punch. I know. There's a humorous side to the story. So the rockets didn't sue, bring any action

against the players, but they sued the Lakers for developing an atmosphere conducive to fighting. I just gave you three of the incidents. Right. Two involving cars. So I accompanied Carmen to Houston, where we had to meet the Lakers lawyers that were going to manage the case. And I was on the same flight with Kareem.

And Kareem's a very interesting man. You know, I must have met the guy 50 times, but he didn't even acknowledge me on the plate. So we get to the Lakers' office. And the lawyers are asking Kareem, He said, Kareem, you've been in a lot of altercations. You know, what would happen if someone was being really physical with you? And you didn't respond physically.

And he stroked his beard and thought, he's a very smart guy. And he said, I'd probably be in an office late at night. He looked at his watch around 10 o'clock, which he was answering the kind of stupid question you're asking right now. So at the trial, they put Calvin Murphy on the stand, who was Rudy's probably best friend on the team was five-dine. Yeah. Built like a... One of the great free-throaters ever, yeah.

Exactly. One of the great baton twirls ever. I know that. Did not know that. Did not know that. What world championship baton-tweller? And one of the best fighters in the NBA. And so the lawyers, you know, he testified, you know,

and so the Laker lawyers to really tweak his ego. And they said, you know, Calvin, you're a really small guy. I'm sure you, like, never got into fights because you just could take it. get advantage of. And they kept prodding and proud and finally. He lost his call. And he told the story his high-pitched whining boys about how he knocked out. Sidney Wicks, it was six-nine.

I guess some fun punch, cold cocked him and knocked him out. No further question. Yeah. Per usual, David Falk, a great storyteller with a lot of stories. And I always feel like when I have you on, they're never repeats. I'm always getting something new that I haven't heard before. I know you're pressed for time today, but I want to talk to you a little bit about these NBA finals

and maybe even Caitlin Clark a little bit and get your opinion on her. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled UniFYD Healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big time world class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me.

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slash Sheen. No material or testimonies on the Unified Healing website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EE system. Rating and reviewing this podcast is such a big help for us. If you get a chance to do it, especially on Apple and Spotify, it would be much appreciated. Following this podcast on Apple and Spotify and subscribing to the podcast is a big help as well. continue with David Falk. I know you have been watching these NBA finals and the NBA playoffs, and I just wanted to

get your overall opinion on the series, but really specifically, Luca Donchich, who has had quite a run through this postseason, and at the same time, you know, is a guy that sometimes is hard to watch because of the bitching and the complaining and the whining, but he is a spectacular offensive player, that's for sure. And I think a lot of sports fans who don't pay attention to the NBA until, you know, late into the postseason have gotten their first full, you know, sort of serving of Luca Donchich. So let's start there. These NBA finals and Luca in particular.

Okay, number one, I think Luca Donutsch is clearly one of the top five best players in the NBA. And when you look at people like Donzsche, and you look at people like Yokic, and you look at people like Dirk Nowitzky, I think you have to conclude that the developmental system in Europe of teaching the player's skills is far superior to what we're doing in America. It points to me why players coming out of school after one year is a terrible mistake for the union. And I've been saying this for 25 years. You look at Caitlin Clark and the history. that she's creating because of her performance, incredible performance in the NCAA tournament. That's the way it used to be for people like Michael Jordan, Patrick Euling, Jamesworthy, you know, Christian Leightner, Bobby Hurley, Grand Hill, Larry Johnson, Danny, Danny.

They were household names before they came in the league. Now unless you are really hardcore basketball fan and you take out complete aberrations like LeBron or Shaq. the average fan has no clue who the players are that they're being drafted, and yet the being asked to pay a lot of money for season tickets and cable television and buying hats and jerseys. I think it's a ridiculous system personally.

And I think, you know, listen, Don Citch was a pro at 13. I'm not saying guys can't go pro. I don't care if they go pro when they're five. If I were the NBA, like the NFL, I would not allow any player to be an NBA player before. he's 21.

Just a simple rule. No exception. I don't care if you, LeBron, Michael Jordan, you know, Jerry West, Jabar,

you know, nobody. Just 21. A, that's what unions is supposed to do is protect the seniority of their workers,

which the NBA union has done a terrible job up for the last 30 years. And B, you would, without having a movie without coming attractions. How many movies

you've ever seen don't have, why do you have coming attractions to advertise the movie. The NCAA tournament is the absolute best advertisement for NBA basketball in history. That is so true. The marketing platform that is the NCAA tournament, which creates household names entering the NBA. It's great for the league. It's great for the players financially and otherwise. It's the same in college football in terms of what college football does for the NFL. You know, you mentioned Luca you think is a top five.

player. If I were to say to you, and I think you can make the case, the top three players in the league are Yokic, Janus, and Luca. All three foreign-born players. The three best players in the league, you could argue, are foreign-born. Does it matter? Well, I think that it's a trend where I think in AAU, there's a tremendous emphasis on dunking and speed and athleticism. And yet the way the game is played, which is way more European today than it was 20 years ago, we have some spread offenses. You're relying on three-point shooting and passing. In fact, there was a point in the game last night.

I still have this conversation with Doc Rivers as a dear friend. And, you know, understand that I have my own school of Syracuse and Sports Grand School called the David D. Fault College of Sport. Right. So I teach this stuff. We're the first college at America to give a degree in analytics. So I love analytics. But I think that if you had one analytic in the entire league,

I think the single most important analytic is how many times does the ball touch the floor in an average 24-second possession? and the teams that have the fewest dribbles, I think of the most productive and successful. You look over the last 10, 50 years, you'd say the Devere Nuggets, San Antonio Spurs. Last night there was a point in the game where the ball never touched the floor in Boston.

Each guy caught it, passed it, and had open shots, as opposed to watching Kyrie, who's an incredibly talented player, dribble a ball until oblivion, because there was four seconds left, and then he passes the ball to someone else and takes him an off-bound child. Sometimes he makes because he's a great shooter.

And I think that that's the European style, and I think the American style is geared towards athleticism, and this isn't the Capon, it's basketball. And so I think that the Europeans are giving us a lesson in the direction that the developmental process in basketball needs to go. Yeah, I mean, the ball's not only sticks with Kyrie, it sticks with Luca, too. You know, they dribble the life out of it, and it's an ISO-based offense,

which a lot of basketball in the U.S. is now at all levels. There's the except for the teams that were in the championship. Yeah, well, you know, Boston certainly moves it and reverses the ball a lot more than Dallas does. You wanted to say something about the NBA finals, this particular matchup in the experience that Boston has. I would say in general, not just a basketball, but I would say in sports, a team sports. I'll give you out of basketball example. When the Baltimore Ravens played the Chiefs last year in the conference finals, they had a great team. You could make an argument.

They might even have had a better team than the Chiefs, but they hadn't been there before. The Chiefs have been there four or five times in the last five or six years. the Chiefs know how to win. And the Ravens, I think the debat flowers got called for penalty, you know. They weren't used to that moment, and next year they will be.

I bet next year Baltimore's going to be a much bigger factor if there's no injuries. The Celtics have lost several, both conference finals and league finals. They know now how to sleep, how to pace themselves in the game. you know, I don't think, despite the media obsessing over it, I really don't think that Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, are worried who's a better player

or is Holiday the best player, or is, you know, is a holiday a better defensive guard than White? I mean, they just want to win. And when they win, you know, rising tide, lefts all the boats, I think that Dallas, I think DECA Harrison has done a tremendous job putting this team together basically at the All-Star break. There wasn't one person alive except maybe Bar Cuban that thought that Dallas would be in the position to be in the NBA finals. So I think Nico did an amazing job with some mid-season trades, but they haven't been together long enough to really gel as a team. And for Kyrie, who's a tremendous offensive player, to learn how to really play effectively with Luca in the finals.

Now, Luca, to me, and I'm a little bit biased, can't say enough good things about Luca Donson. I think the guy 25 years old, you know, he's been a pro. He's a pro. He has every shot in the book. I don't think he's a ball hog. But I think after Luca and Kyrie, there's a tremendous drop-off in scoring. Whereas Boston, you have a lot more scorers, and so there's not the pressure on Browners for Tative to have to take that many shots. In the last, in the fourth quarter, not the pre this game, but the game two,

well, Kyrie took most of the shots. Luke didn't shoot that much. I wish you would have shot every time because his percentage could be a lot higher. He's got an incredible ability to get himself at the scoring positions or get fouled. And so I think Boston knows how to win more than Dallas than this particular Dallas team. Dallas, if they keep all the pieces together, they add another shooter. I think next year I'm looking for it. Yeah, the only thing that I would say is that you're the analytic that you love about dribbling the life out of the basketball, which, you know, happens a lot in sort of those ISO offenses.

We haven't seen that style win a championship. You know, it's been a weird run in that the last five years, we haven't had a team in the finals for consecutive years after, you know, pretty much a lifetime of seeing. the same teams kind of show up during, you know, their runs, whether it was Golden State or the heat before that or the Lakers and the Spurs, et cetera. Do you think it's better for the league to have a dominant team or is it better when it's been, as it has been recently, more unpredictable? I'll give you a slightly different answer to that question. I think that there are not enough, there's not enough parity in the NBA because there's not enough

great players to go around. That's the whole point about later the kids come out early before they're really ready. I think there will way more superstar players in the 80s and 90s of New Art of today. And I think there's less parity. There's a lot of reasons why it's not parity. One of them is economic, you know, because there's not enough revenue sharing amongst the teams.

As a result of that, like a team like the Lakers or the Knicks. their per game revenue is probably, I would guess, $5 to $6 million a game and a small market team like Shaw. Our recovery to coverage is $70,000 of them. That's really hard to compete. That doesn't happen in the NFL. Likewise, in the NFL, the Super Bowl is Green Bay versus Cincinnati. And network executives aren't going crazy.

Oh, my God, this is terrible. It's in the NBA of the finals where Utah and, you know, Charlotte, people, or Milwaukee, people be nervous that they're not going to get a large area of short. I think the needs, I think, with the United States for the last 20 years, and I'm saying there's a criticism, which is an observation. I think the players are way too socialistic, and they share, they make the superstars give up large portions of their salary to subsidize second-tier players, whereas in the league, they're way too capitalistic, and they don't allow. the superstar teams to share the revenues with the second tier team. And it makes it difficult to have parity in that situation.

For example, if you looked at the NFL, you get to week 13, and your team is, you know, five and eight, you've got a great shot to be a wild card. If you're in the NBA, your team has the same percentage, you know, by it like February, you're not going to make the playoffs. It's hard to maintain an interest in a team, you know, when you're out of the playoffs, two-ish remorse before the season is. All right. I know you've got to get on a flight, but just real quickly, tell me what you think of Caitlin Clark and what she's done for women's basketball,

and should the Olympic team have put her on it? First of all, I will, this is like they call the law, as a vision against interest. I had never seen a complete, you know, women's game my entire life. I've seen, I've been at games, I've been to WMBA also game, But the first full game I saw was Caitlin Clark against LSU. I watched the last two. And I thought it was phenomenal.

I thought she was phenomenal or skill level, her poised. And she exemplifies what we just talked about, why it's better to keep people in school, because the whole country came to embrace Caitlin Clark. Now, the downside is that it's tremendous jealousy amongst the women in the W&B. towards cable card for variety of reasons. And, you know, one is because she's making so much funny, and she hasn't, quote, proven himself, which is exactly what happened to a young guy named Michael Jordan,

1985 at the All-Star game, when Isaiah and Magic did Gervin froze him out because they were jealous that he's own shoe. And sort of those people have never admitted that 40 years later. if I'm the commissioner of the WNDA, and I've never met her. I know the former commissioner quite well. Don O'Nand is a very dear friend. I think I have an entire league meeting, and I say the women,

I know some of you don't like Kaylon Clark because she's getting too much attention, and is that so racially? I know some of you think Kayla Clark getting too much attention. Is that for preference reasons? I know some of you are jealous of Kayle and Clark because you think she's getting so much money, and maybe she's not as good as Diana Tarasie or, you know, Candace Parker or some of the great that have come before. But, and here's the big but, but, but when Caitlin Clark is on the floor playing the mystics, and we move from a 5,000 or 6,000 seed reader to a 20,000

Cedar rita, all are you going to make a hell of a lot more money? So put your petty jealousy and enmities aside and understand from a business standpoint, this is a great thing for the and if she got fouled by the girl in the Chicago team in a dead ball deal, I suspend that girl for five games because I don't want to take my cash cow of Portland Clark and have her sideline for a month because some girl is jealous

and she's making so much money. I think that was really, really poorly handled. I think that would never happen in the NBA if a fringe player fouled Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan or LeBron James or Stefan Curry like that, they'd be suspended. And I think the commission was asleep at the switch on her.

So you think she should be on the Olympic team? I didn't get to that part yet. The Olympic team is a different issue. I don't think the Olympic team is a marketing thing, and there are a lot of great players. There are enough spots for all the great players. And listen, there was enough spots on the Dream Team for Isaiah Thomas. And while he and I are at Kissing Cousins,

we've had a lot of differences over the years. I respect the fact that he's a great player. But they won by an average of 50s, so they hardly missed him. Now, did he deserve to be on the team? Probably, and he was a great player at his day. So was Joe Dumas's teammate. Neither have him made it. You know, I don't follow women's basketball enough to know why,

but I think that all the politics that surround Caitlin Clark are petty. I think she's a breath of fresh air for not only for women's basketball, but for women's sports in general. And I hope that the momentum that she has created continues because I think it's terrific for the WMBA to have this much national interest in the game that hasn't existed for many, 90 years. Despite the fact that they had a lot of great players like Cheryl Swokes

and all these people who came before, she has really energized the base of people at America to follow women's basketball. I think it's terrific. Well, I agree with you, but you said that the Olympic team is a different story. It wouldn't be a great marketing platform. This league's about to go dark. No, I didn't say that.

Okay. So I didn't say it would be a great marketing platform, but they have a great team. And if they win the gold medal, I think they'll have a lot of support, and people follow it because of the momentum in part that Kate and Clark has created. I think she's brought, she's put the spotlight on women's basketball that has never, I mean, put it this way for me, and I know this, but I've met a lot of great women basketball players. I've many, many years guys, friendly with one of the early pioneers of women's basketball, Nancy Lieberman, who was tremendous.

You know, but back then, you know, the following has been great. I mean, if you were, if you were candid, you would understand that, but for the subsidy, for the NBA as a business at the NBA probably had a business 15 years ago. Of course. That's not because it's not because the quality of play is good. I mean, I love the quote from Pablo Bencherro

whose mother played the W.S. If you want to learn the, and this goes back to the European style versus the American style, you want to learn the right way to play basketball for all the women. It's very fundamentally sound that they don't have the well athleticism, most of them, that the men do.

But it's really It's really fundamental basketball. It's like watching college 25 years ago. Thank you for doing this. I know you've got to go. I appreciate it. We'll do it again soon. No, I really enjoyed it.

And I look forward to coming back. Have a good flight. My pleasure, bye. All right. Talk soon. David Falk, everybody. A hell of a storyteller. Hell of a memory.

Tommy and I did one of those lunch with a legend shows with him, maybe 10 years ago. He was really good. so many stories. They're endless. And, you know, clearly there's all of the Michael Jordan stuff, you know, the negotiation with Nike and, you know,

the movie that was made a year or two ago called Air, you know, which was the story of, you know, the Air Jordan and how it came about. And I'm forgetting actually right now who played David Falk in that movie. Matt Damon played Sunny Vicaro. Ben Affleck was in that movie. Ben Affleck played Phil Knight, right? The founder and chairman of Nike. I'd have to pull that up to see who played David Falk. But there was that, you know, those exchanges between David Falk and Sunny Vicaro during that whole time. But anyway, we'll do that another time with him. He was pressed for time today because he had to get to a flight.

And we'll have him back soon. He's usually willing to do it, and he's a great guest. All right, done for the day. Back tomorrow.