The Kevin Sheehan Show - Is Lurie Worse Than Snyder?

Episode Date: April 13, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the Nats, Caps, and Wizards to start. They talked next about the story in "The Athletic" about the dysfunction in the Philadelphia Eagles organization led by their very hands-on owner Jeffrey Lurie. Is it worse there than here in DC? Steph Curry passed Wilt on the Warriors' scoring list and Mel Kiper has Washington selecting a QB in the 2nd round. All of that and a Juan Soto batting order argument to boot.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's with me today. We've got a couple of things to get to. I want to remind everybody that if they missed the coolly breakdown of Justin Fields yesterday to go listen to that podcast, it was well done. He's not a massive fan of Justin Fields. Not in the way that he really, really tried, I believe, to persuade Washington not to take Dwayne Haskins before the 2019 draft. He doesn't feel the same way about Fields, but he definitely likes Trey Lance more than Fields. So go listen to that. He'll have more quarterback film breakdowns tomorrow. I wanted to just remind everybody, subscribe if you haven't subscribed, that really helps us because it basically automatically, you know, downloads the show. A lot of you will listen to it at hoc, which is fine. better for us if you are a subscriber, which allows for that to count every day. Also, if you

haven't rated or reviewed the show, especially on iTunes or Apple podcasts, that would be helpful if you did that as well. That's the purple icon on your iPhone, if you've got an iPhone that says podcasts. If you just touch that purple podcast icon and search the Kevin Sheehan's show podcast and rate us and review us, that would really, really help. If you just touch that purple podcast icon, and search the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast, and rate us that would really help if you. you haven't done that before. I did want to mention that the Caps trade, and they pulled off a big trade. I had a 25-minute conversation this morning on radio with Tarek L. Bashir.

Tark is great as a radio guest, covers the team for the athletic. You can simply go to the Team 980.com and listen to it there, or you can download the Odyssey app and find it there as well. But the Team 980.com, and it was in the third hour of the team 980.com, and it was in the third hour of show today. Just go to the Kevin Sheehan show at the Team 980.com and Tark was great on the trade. He essentially said they

had soured on Verona and this is a better fit and this dude's another big dude. They've got the biggest team in hockey. The caps do. Hey Tommy, I did watch the Nats game last night with all of the players there for the first time this year. And what a difference,

you know, Schwerver. It seemed to make a difference. It certainly did. In the first game back with all these guys, first of all, Schwerber had a huge RBI double in a two-for-five night. Bell was in the lineup. He went one for three and walked twice. You had Harrison in the lineup. You had Gomes in the lineup. He went two for four. The one thing that I did notice, and I'm sure that Bob and F.P. maybe talked about it and others have, but I have not heard the answer to this. Remember, the idea was that Juan Soto was going to bat second when everybody was back and everybody was back last night. I never thought that. Oh, most people that I talked to thought that he was going to hit second. Second? Yes.

He was going to bat third always. Well, that's not, that wasn't the prevailing opinion before the season started. I don't know what prevailing opinion you're talking about. Everybody's. Mark Zuckerman's, every single person I had on the show. Well, they bat. I don't think you have that right. Oh, I definitely have that right. Trey Turner was always going to bat second if they were going to blow with Robles to lead off. No, they were going to get Soto more at bats and have him hit second behind Robles. I think this was a delusion in some people's minds, then.

Maybe what the numbers freaks wanted. But no, they never intended on batting him second. That became a spring training question. I was like, really? He's not going to bat in a three or three. the four spot? Nope, this is something that Davey that they were thinking about all along was hitting

him in the two spot. I don't know. Beyond the voices in people's heads, I don't know who was thinking that. I was surprised by it too, but everybody said that that's what was being contemplated. Okay. Okay. Okay. It must be one of these mysteries in a

universe. Well, remember, he hit second. He hit second a bunch, I think, at the end of last year. You know, they moved him up into that two spot. And so that was the thinking that was possible. Last year was a complete aberration. Okay. I mean, you know, with a healthy roadways and wanting to get the best out of roadways,

he was going to lead off if he proved that he could handle it. And so far he has. Am I wrong on this? I could be totally wrong. I'm texting Zuckerman right now and asking him if this was the thing, because now you've got me wondering. And I'm usually pretty sure about what was talked about, at least in the last month anyway. Yesterday would have been a problem.

But a month ago would not have been a problem. But they're not – anyway, the bottom line is he's not batting sick. No, he didn't last night with everybody back, you know, in the lineup for the first time. Yes. Right? Yes. And this lineup is built to protect him with Schwerver and Bell hitting behind him. So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely.

I mean, Swarver could be a huge factor for this team. I mean, he could hit 40 home runs with this team. It was big for him. He's capable of it. Yeah, it was certainly big for him last night. And to debut, you could tell when he hit it how pleased he was. There was a pitching change right afterwards, and he looked like a real happy guy. By the way, what kind of guy is he?

Is he a good media guy? Do you know? Yes. Yes, yes, and yes. He's considered a good guy, a good clubhouse guy, a good media guy, good in the community. And Dave Martinez loves him. That's why you wanted to bring him here. And he's got something to prove here too.

So, you know, I mean, the questions about Schwabber are defensive. How well can he play the outfield? Dave Martinez, when he was a coach at the Cubs, was the guy who helped Schwerver become a better outfielder, if not a good outfielder. And we still have to see how that plays out. Because when you rely on starting pitching, like the Nats do, you're really wary about sacrificing defensively. If Schwerver's bat is 35, 40 home runs, you live with it.

Right. Okay. The Wizards won last night at Utah. They hung the first loss at home to the Utah Jazz Jazz. in Salt Lake City. They had not lost a home game. They've got the best record in the NBA at 40 to 14. 40 and 14. It was 40 and 13 going into last night. And it was their first loss. I think it was their first loss at home. I could be wrong about that too. You know, I think this is the start or something big. What do you think?

I do think that they're so capable offensively when they're healthy. They're just a bad defensive team. Last night they gave up 42 in the first quarter and they gave up 17 to Donovan Mitchell in the first quarter and then they rolled back and they ended up sort of dominating. They had a huge lead. They had a 19 point lead at one point in the second half against a really good team, a team that personally I don't think makes it to the NBA finals despite the fact that they will possibly go into the Western Conference playoffs as the one seed. The Lakers healthy will still be the favorite. I think the clippers are better than the jazz and a best of seven. But they're a really good basketball team, really good basketball team, and the Wizards played well. They had basically

everybody out there last night, Westbrook and Beale. You know, they combined last night for really one of their most solid performances in terms of not turning the ball over. They only had three combined turnovers. Westbrook had another triple double. I mean, 25, 14, and 14, Beal had 34, and the Wizards won 125, 1-21. Maybe the new coach will get him to play defense. Yeah, maybe. Maybe the new coach will get him to play defense. I'm wondering when that new coach will be here. I would suspect it would be next year. That would be my guess. I mean, that's why, I mean, his contract is up. Unless they make some sort of, you know, Dick Mata, 43 and 38 regular season run to the NBA title where the fat lady, you know, is singing.

So, yeah. You know who Russell Westbrook reminds me of a little bit? Who does he remind you? It's not a direct comparison. Huh? Who does he remind you of? Dave Kingman. Just puts up.

Go big or go home? Outrageous numbers. Outrageous offensive numbers like Kingman did. But can't win with him. guy. Now, obviously, Oklahoma City won with the guy, but he wasn't the only guy they won with. They had three superstars on their team at one point. Yeah. But, you know, when they got him, I was happy because I think he is entertaining to watch sometimes, although he can be frustrating. And I thought they, I thought they would be better than this. And I still think

they can be better. But in terms of getting out of the Wizards limbo of success, that 43 to 46 win plateau? No. Not this team. Yeah, well, they're only playing 72 this year, not 80s. I mean, when things are normal. Yeah. The guy that, you know, and I forget if I talk to you about this on the show or not,

when they made that trade a few weeks ago and they got Daniel Gafford, he was one of my favorite players to watch in college. And, like, the numbers didn't make sense. Like, he was so productive, but he wasn't getting. that many minutes, but he was very productive in the few minutes he was getting. Now, sometimes that can be misleading. It can come at the end of a game. But in Chicago, he was, his per 36-minute numbers were really high. Well, he's, that's what he's done here. He's getting, you know, more minutes, not like a significant number more, but he had 18 minutes last night, scored 15

points, had four rebounds with six of eight. You know, he's done that now consistently for them. He's a real talent. I mean, this is a guy that actually could end up being a big-time player for them. I believe that going forward. They have, you know, they've got a lot of big guys on the team, you know, with Lopez and Len and Gafford's a true center. Like, he's not going to, you know, spread you out. He's not going to stretch the floor at all. But anyway, they won the game. And I'm looking at Utah's schedule. I was given something early this morning that says, that this was their first home loss of the year. And I'm just making sure that I'm correct on that.

I want to make sure that I'm correct on that because I could be wrong in a lot of things. No, it's their first home loss of the year, meaning since the calendar turned to January 1. They lost two home games at the start of the year to Phoenix and to Minnesota. There you go. So they've now lost three games at home.

home, but just once this year, Tommy, as in 2021. That may have been a little bit misleading the way it was presented to me. I guess it was. But I should have done my own work on that. You know, well, you're a busy guy. You got a lot of work to do, buddy. I know that. You got lots of burdens.

So, listen, you know, I think there's news. I could be wrong. You know, I mean, because I'm not on top of these things as you are. But Washington says they've signed a tight end. Who'd they sign? Sammy race. I don't know who that is. Samis Rays.

He's a basketball player. I'm chilly. I don't know. The Washington football team signed this person to be a tight end? Yes. Okay. Six foot seven, 240 pounds grew up in Chile. All right.

Play basketball. They're looking for tight ends. Who do he play basketball for? It's hard to say. You know, Tulane, I think. I think he played basketball at Tulane. I mean, this is, I'm reading the Washington press release, the football team press release.

Okay. And it's written like a third grader, so I can't possibly figure out exactly where he plays. Stop. It is. It's terrible. I mean, they don't have professional writers, but the guy, they do a decent job,

Kyle and some of the others. They do a decent job. This is a pathetic. piece of work. Okay. I'll tell you what, you go read it. It's a website. And you tell me in the first three paragraphs where he played college basketball.

Am I going to their website to read this? Well, I found it on Twitter, but it's on their website. But you tell me, in the first three paragraphs. Here it is. Here it is. What this guy did. Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, and Jimmy Graham were all former Division I basketball players before developing into some of the best title.

in the NFL. This is not the what, where, when, why? It's not the seven Ws, I don't think, to start. But that's fine. I don't think that's the purpose of this. Samus Reyes is aiming to become the next athlete to make the transition. He'll begin his football career with the Washington football team who announced his signing Tuesday. Reyes or Reyes, 6-7, 240 pounds grew up in Chile before moving to the United States when he was 14 and starred at North Broward Prep in Florida. The football coaches there begged Ray's to play both sports, and he even went through a few practices as a tight end. Ultimately, though, he thought his future was in basketball and getting injured on the football field would hinder his chances at the next level. He never ended up playing a game.

Only that... Stop there. Stop there. Stop there. Still no college mention. Okay. Stop there. Whatever. I don't... In those first three paragraphs, you should know something about the guy. Okay. Only after playing sparingly at Tulane for two seasons, did Reyes give football legitimate shot. Okay. Quick update from Mark Zuckerman. Yeah, it was an option Davy was considering this spring. Then Trey and Juan got off to a hot start, so now even with the others back, he's hesitant to change it. At least until his lineup struggles, which could certainly happen at some point.

Managers are funny sometimes, even if they believe one lineup is better than the other, they don't like to mess with it when it's working. So yes, I wasn't wrong on that, that people did tell me that Davey was considering moving, Soto up into the order to number two to hit behind Robles and then Trey Turner was going to hit behind him and then Josh Bell. But because of the start without all the other guys, for now, I guess Davies keeping it where it is. At least I'm not crazy that somebody told me that because I was really starting to wonder whether or not I'm getting enough oxygen to my brain in recent weeks. He wasn't the only one who told me somebody else. It may have been Galdi told me

too, that that was a potential plan so Soto would get more at bats. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Let's, no, let's stop this because I don't want, I don't want to do this. You don't want to do what? I don't want to talk about this anymore. Okay. Because you're going to start going off on the analytics people.

Well, I don't want to talk about this anymore. Okay. Fine. I don't want to. Why? people. You're just going to crush the analytics people. That's fine.

You know what? Why don't we save that for this athletic story on the Philadelphia Eagles? Because that was a great story. What are you, you're going to crush somebody else who? One of the two people I mentioned? I am not answering anything else about this. Yes, I do. Yeah.

So I can't figure out why you just want to halt the conversation. Now you've got me intrigued. Why do you want to just halt the conversation? conversation now. How would Galdi know? Well, what do you mean? How would Galdi know? Galdi probably knows more than you do. Galdi probably

knows more than you do about the team. How would he know that this is the plan? I don't know. It's reading it. Okay. Yeah. If you're pointing, he's not a... Somebody told him. Well, it could be one or the other. It's probably the former with Al, because I know Al well.

Al's not a reporter. I'm not a reporter. That's not what we do, but we hear things. But that's, yeah, you're right. We should stop the conversation now because you're going to go down a path where you're going to be critical about somebody who does a talk show for bringing up the thing that several people have talked about since spring training started. But apparently you missed it. How didn't you know that this was a possibility, that this was being discussed? Mr. Godzilla

versus Kong? That's the only thing you're paying attention to? It wasn't discussed seriously. I don't know if it was discussed seriously or not. I was surprised when I had more than one person, multiple people tell me that this was a possibility

with the acquisitions that they made. By the way, I did want to just... Look, I understand how Mark would know. Yeah, I know. Well, Tommy, there's there are things I known about the football team that you haven't known. Right. Yeah.

Right. And? Okay. What does that have to do with the baseball team? Well, you're acting like it's not a possibility that a talk show host might know something more than somebody that's covering the team every day. Every day. Of course it's possible.

It's been more than possible with me for many years. Yes, it has. Yes, it has. So let me just mention one thing, and I don't have the tweet to go back to. here. But somebody sent me a tweet. And when you went on and on about, and by the way, it was a beautiful story about you and your son. And I love the fact that you took videos of your son when he was young, audio, excuse, audio of your son, you know, asking you all those. There goes the oxygen in your brain again. It was audio. And I'd like to hear him if you'd ever

bring him to the show. But somebody basically brought up the, so Godzilla and Kong, you're all into, but you won't watch a show with dragons. Good point. Whoever brought that up. I forget who it was on Twitter. There are several things we need to get to, including this incredible story in the athletic about the state of the Philadelphia Eagles. If you think Washington's dysfunctional, how about Philly now? More on that right after this word from one of our sponsors. I called Tommy before the show today to tell him and ask him to read the column that was written in the athletic by Sheel Capadia, Bo Wolf, and Zach Berman. I've had Zach Berman on the radio show before. He covers the Eagles. I'm not sure if the other two are Eagles people or NFL writers. But there's a story on the athletic about the Philadelphia Eagles situation titled Paranoia, Mismanagement, and Office Politics Inside the Eagles Downfall,

Jeffrey Lurie and Howie Roseman. And before we get to the specifics of it, when I read this, Tommy, I thought, my God, there is now an organization in the division, let alone the league, that is more dysfunctional on the football side than Washington's. It also made me think of a lot of other things. What was your first reaction to it? Well, my first reaction is, I know what's coming. there's going to be, well, what about?

What about these guys? I know we're nuts, but look at these guys. They're nuts too. They're nuttier than we are. Nuttier. Which really, wow, it's an intriguing story. Very well done. I mean, riveting story.

Yes. If you're a Washington football fan should give you no comfort. Because here's the bottom line. With all that lunacy, they've got a Super Bowl, they've got multiple division titles under that crazy owner, and they have a record of 235, 194, and 3. You looked that one up pretty quickly. During what, the last 21 years? During Lori's ownership. Oh, during Lori's ownership. During Lori's ownership.

So despite the lunacy, somehow they've managed to win. I want to point out before I read some of the, some of this story. This is a football operation story. This is not the stuff that's been going on in Washington with a culture of, you know, sexual harassment and misogyny, etc. There's none of that in this story. This is all about Jeffrey Lurie, Howie Roseman, Doug Peterson in particular. You know, the football operation and what's gone on here over the last

few years, which by the way, to Tommy's point, I want to remind everybody that when the Eagles won the Super Bowl at 13 and 3 in 2017, they followed it up with a 9-and-7 season in which they got to the playoffs and they lost once again, remember late in that year, and Foles won a playoff game at Chicago and nearly beat the Saints in the divisional round to get back to the NFC championship game the next year. And then the following year, they went 9 and 7. They won. the division in in 2019, and they actually started whence he got hurt in like the first quarter of that game against the Seahawks, and Josh McCown came in and played well, and they almost won that game. Last year was the first losing season in the last three years. Doug Peterson

went seven and nine, thirteen and three, nine and seven, nine and seven, won two division titles and won a Super Bowl and almost got back to an NFC title game. This year in a pandemic year, 411 and 1 they finished in dead last. With that, let me read some of this story because you're right, it is riveting to go through it. Like I was hoping there was more and more and more when I got to the end of it. Four weeks into the 2019 season, this is how it starts. Doug Peterson sat down for his scheduled inquisition. All right, 2019 season. Understand, that they've won a Super Bowl, that they nearly got to the NFC championship game the year before, and it's early in the 2019 season. And he sits down for what's called his scheduled inquisition.

The Tuesday tribunals with team owner Jeffrey Lurie and general manager, Howie Roseman, were a weekly occurrence during Peterson's five-year tenure as Eagles head coach. In the meetings, Lurie and Roseman questioned Peterson about all aspects of his game management the week prior. Fourth down decision making, play calling, personnel choices, everything was on the table. Days earlier, the team had overcome a 10-0 second quarter deficit to beat Aaron Rogers and the Packers 34 to 27 to even its record at 2-2. The offensive key to the win was a steady dose of the running game that took advantage of Green Bay's defensive game plan. Apparently, that was not good enough, especially for Lurie. Lurie, who has long advocated the use of analytics, wanted to know why Peterson

hadn't called more passing plays. The interrogation was the same after another win that season, this time in Buffalo, on a day with 23-mile-per-hour wins. Peterson was ridiculed and criticized for every decision, one source told the athletic. If you won by three, it wasn't enough. If you lost on a last second field goal, you were the worst coach in history. Following the season, Lurie wanted Peterson to get rid of offensive coordinator Mike Groen wide receivers coach Carson Walsh. It wasn't the first time Peterson found himself on the

opposite end of a disagreement with his bosses over his assistant coaches. After Peterson's first year's head coach in 2016, he fought to keep then offensive coordinator Frank Reich. Yeah, the Frank Reich, who is now the head coach in Indianapolis and will be coaching, by the way, this upcoming season, Carson Wentz. Peterson put his foot down again with Gros and Walsh saying he wanted both coaches to return. That's when Lurie reminded the coach, who makes the final calls at the NovaCare complex, which is their Eagles headquarters. Peterson was given 24 hours to make the moves according to multiple sources. If he didn't, he'd be fired. A source close to Lurie says the owner never gave Peterson an ultimatum, but the next day the Eagles announced that both

Grow and Walsh had been let go. A year later, it was Peterson who was let go, who declined comment for this story. Lurie and Roseman also declined to participate in this story through a team spokesperson. person. Now, I'll get to some of the other parts. But I want you, Tommy, first, to give everybody a brief summary of this story so we don't have to read the entire thing. I'm sorry. Could you please ask that question again? Were you not listening? No, I just wanted to, I didn't understand the question. Would you summarize in your own words, the story so we don't have to read through the entire thing? I read the first few paragraphs. Yeah. Well, the summary. The summary. The summary. is you have

an owner who thinks he's a football expert. The thing that struck me in the story was how they outlined how he has a office above his garage where he watches football film.

That's a good one. Constantly. Right. You know, like college football games, you know, senior ball, all this other stuff. So you have an owner who, you have an owner who's a draft fan.

And they said that's what he specializes in. He thinks he's an expert on the draft. He thinks he can scout college football players from watching these films. That was remarkable to read that. Okay, so let's start there. I want to go back to the analytics guy that they hired because I think there are a lot of moneyball comparisons

when we get to that. But Tommy hit on a part that I also would have included in a summary. and I'll read from basically the first two paragraphs of this portion of the story. Shortly after Jeffrey Lurie bought the team from Norman Brayman in 1994, that guy, did he end up in jail, Tommy, Brehman? No, you're thinking of the owner before him. Oh, okay. I forget who he was, but who had a gambling problem. Right, the gambling problem guy.

S.I.'s Peter King wrote in 1994, Hollywood producer Jeffrey Lurie is a member of the most rabid subspecies of NFL fanatic, The Draftaholic. In recent years, he is prepared for the league's annual college draft by holling up in the media room above the garage of his Beverly Hills home and watching tapes of the blue-gray game, the Japan Bowl, the Senior Bowl, Lurie would have them all on his big screen surround Sound TV. That passion remains strong, according to multiple sources, Lurie devouther. tape of college prospects and is an active participant in the pre-draft process. Those who have

experienced that process acknowledge its murkiness. Often there's no explanation given when the team strays from an established draft board. Sometimes, as was the case with J.J. R. Saga Whiteside selection in 2019, Lori puts his thumb on the scale when the team was prepared to make another selection. In that case, they were prepared to take Paris Campbell. Lurie wanted our Sega White's side. Yeah, that is, can you imagine, like, in the early days of Snyder, remember, there were always the stories of Snyder being, you know, out, you know, working out, you know, receivers and holding a stopwatch and timing people, you know, in 40 times. I don't know how much of that was ever really true or not. I really don't.

You might have a better sense of that. But Lori clearly is involved. He is, now, you know, the one guy, remember, when Washington selected back in the 2000, whatever draft that was, 2002 draft, Patrick Ramsey was at the 2002 draft, apparently that was a guy that Snyder really loved and Spurrier said, well, go ahead. I've got my guys. But Lurie's really apparently involved in the draft process. I mean, and again, I mean, I guess what we could, we saw what evolved with, with, you know, a Super Bowl championship team that disintegrated so quickly. I think we had an inkling that that was a dysfunctional organization based on the fact that there's nobody left there hardly from the Super Bowl champion team a few years ago. but I don't think anyone knew it was like this. I don't think anyone knew the coaches were being berated over their play calling in wins, in victories.

I had no idea. I had no idea really about the Philadelphia situation until the Wentz story started to come out. That was really the first inkling, I think, that Philadelphia is... That's a couple of years ago. Well, no, the stories this year. towards the end of the year about how Wentz was, you know, a tough guy to deal with. Part of this story. I know that, but a couple years ago, there was a Philly writer who was a friend of mine who writes for the Philly voice who broke the story about how Carson Wentz was a divisive figure in the locker room, didn't have a lot of friends, and was difficult to deal with.

And he was berated by media members for writing that story. Who was the guy that wrote the story? to be spot on. Yeah. Who was the guy that wrote the story? Joe Santa Quito. Santa Quino. I always mispronounce his name wrong.

He's a boxing writer. So a big portion of this story is to talk about Lurie's, the owner's involvement. And Lurie's relationship with Howie Roseman, because Roseman is the only survivor of a team that won a Super Bowl a few years ago. The head coach has gone. The starting quarterback is gone. The owner prefers Howie Roseman. There's a lot of that's written in here that really almost makes Howie Roseman out to be Bruce Allen for Dan Snyder. Yes.

There's a lot of cover that Roseman and a lot of heat that Roseman's taken from the fans and even from others in the organization. And this is one of the thoughts as to why Lori keeps Howie Roseman on. I thought that that analogy was a decent one to draw. there were several different things in here about just that relationship and Lori deciding to keep Roseman. But here's the most intriguing part of the story for me. The Tuesday meetings Peterson basically grew very tired of. You know, being questioned every single week after, you know, a couple years, you know, a year to half after winning a Super Bowl and still, you know, having a competitive team. And I'll read this section because I think this is fascinating. and it just reminds me so much of moneyball.

Like it reminds me, well, I'll get to that in a second. Over time, the Tuesday meetings wore on Peterson. Lurie has long considered the organization at the forefront of innovation and the impression among Peterson's supporters in the building was that Lurie's weekly questions were largely based on post-game reports produced by the team's analytics staff. Sources say Peterson was beaten down by the constant second-game. guessing. They treated him like a baby, one source said.

Alec Hallaby, the Eagles vice president of football operations and strategy, has worked under Rosemons since joining the team full-time in 2010 and now runs the team's four-person analytics department. The young executive with an Ivy League pedigree carries with him the kind of reputation that causes football lifers to scoff. And according to multiple sources, a rift grew between Hallaby and some members of the coaching staff and scouting department. Quote, within the building he's perceived as Howie's guy, one source said. That's a problem. No coach wants somebody around who they think is undermining the perception of how well they're doing.

To some, Halliby is something of an interloper. They say he carries influence with Lurie in part because of a close relationship with fellow Harvard grad, Julian Lurie, Jeffrey's son, who stands to one day take over the family. business. To others, to others, Hallaby is brilliant and simply willing to fight for what he believes is right. The more nuanced opinion is that Halliby is in a no-win situation boxed into a specific characterization by the non-traditional football background he shares with Roseman and a personality that makes him a square peg in a round hole. The blurriness of Halliby's influence on the final decision-makers creates rifts throughout the organization and contributed to the

iciness between departments. One source described the analytics team as a clandestine black ops department that doesn't answer to anybody except the owner, even though Hallaby officially reports to Roseman. During the 2017 season, which was the Super Bowl season, Hallibis and Peterson's relationships soured to the point where Peterson berated Hallaby with an earshot of the rest of the office, according to sources. In the opinion of some members of the coaching staff, Halliby was not to be trusted. Frustration mounted on the scouting side as well, rather than being presented with reasons for where certain draft eligible players were rated by Hallaby's department, the scouting staff would simply be given a list of players by the analytics department that they liked.

According to one source, a top personnel official was upset to find out Hallaby was grading players on his own despite never having been trained in the scouting department's methodology. Lurie's investment in analytics is substantial. In addition to Hallaby's staff, I did not know this, by the way. Lurie purchased Warren Sharp of Sharpfootballanalysis.com who provides a weekly offensive game plan report during the season. Let me stop you there. That's a big problem for Warren Sharp.

It is now. Yeah. I mean, because, I mean, the idea is, I mean, if you're collecting a paycheck from the Philadelphia Eagles, based on your reports, how can you have any credibility with what you write or say about the Philadelphia Eagles?

That's a problem. I don't, I mean, I'm sort of familiar with Warren Sharp, but it is... I like him. Okay, I mean, he's just in, is he just a PFF competitor? A pro football focus competitor? Yeah, I guess you could say that.

has relationships with all 32 teams now. Right. For me, I would pass doubt on anything this guy posts concerning to Philadelphia Eagles. Well, I wouldn't worry. If I were him, I would imagine that the biggest source of revenue comes from clients like teams. I mean, at least that's what it is with pro football focus. Anyway, was there anything else from this particular? To me, just to hear that Peterson was basically berating Halaby, it's like Art Howl.

It's like Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know, berating Billy Bean, you know, and in the movie. And it's a whole moneyball situation. Football guys that are just eye rolling on the analytics guys. The irony here is that the eye rolling from football guys to analytics guys in football probably is more. appropriate. Analytics in football is a really hard thing. I don't want to get into the debate on this because it's deep. But the bottom line is a lot of these services that provide, you know, that provide in a lot of these departments in these organizations that are analytics driven, if the analytics don't include understanding what, you know, 11 men's responsibilities are on every single

play, it's really hard to measure it accurately all the time. It's a bigger debate, and I understand that, but baseball is a lot more measurable than football, a lot more measurable. But anyway, I thought that that was, the Eagles, the Eagles are a mess right now. They hired this coach, Nick Siriani. This guy looks, it really sounds like he's just a puppet for Lurie and Roseman. Nobody had this guy on any list to be a head coach. I know, I know, they really sound like a mess right now. in terms of, you know, but again, I mean, through all this, they've been a winning organization.

They're the most successful organization in the division. You know what? For the past, you know, arguably. Maybe that is, you know, really, ultimately, that's much more important. Now, they don't look like they're going to have a good team this year, and they were 411 and one last year. and they traded Carson Wentz after giving them a massive contract. They've made a lot of mistakes. But I think the big takeaway here, to your point, it is fair to say, if you're an Eagles fan,

hey, shut the fuck up, the rest of you. We just won the Super Bowl a couple of years ago, and we've had a hell of a lot more success than any one of you, and the Giants won two Super Bowls. Certainly more than the other two dysfunctional teams in the organization, you know, the skins and the Cowboys. boys. With that said, though, what is really revealing, and I just didn't know a lot of this, is how hands-on Jeffrey Lurie is. By the way, much more hands-on than Dan Snyder. It would appear to be the case. Now, Snyder's dysfunction comes from a lot of things,

including on the business side of the organization, and obviously with the culture that was created in the organization. But Snyder's involvement, you know, has been destructive, and it's been relationship driven, you know, whether it was the relationship with RG3, and I'm talking about over the last 10 years, obviously he fucked up in 2019 going in and telling his scouts and his staff, no, we're hiring, you know, the kid that went to the same high school my kid went to. You know, that's destructive. I mean, that's a first round pick. And he took a guy that most teams had a second or a third round grade on. So I don't know that Lurie's done that, but there is more in this story about the draft and why Jalen Rager was taken last year right before Justin Jefferson was taken.

You know, that was at least through a year, that appears to have been a big mistake by the Eagles. Lurie's very involved and still super passionate about the draft, super passionate about, you know, analytics. You know what's really interesting, Tommy, and I've mentioned this a lot over the years when playing the Eagles or watching Eagles games with Peterson. Peterson really did, you know, in terms of like two point and fourth down analytics, he coached, you know, new wave. You know, he went for fourth down much more often than most teams. He went for two, you know, much more often than others. And it didn't always work out for him. Really didn't work out for him a couple of times this year.

I think it was against the Giants. Or maybe that was last year, I forget. But, yeah, who knows what this, you know, Nick Ciro. I mean, he was on, he was the offensive coordinator for Frank Reich in Indianapolis last year. But the Eagles certainly, this is a really, I would urge you anybody to go read this story. I guess you got to subscribe to the athletic if you haven't, but I've told you before it's totally worth it. And this was really, really well done. There's just a, there's a lot of stuff there.

They did mention briefly the tank job against Washington to finish up last season. There was a real misunderstanding in this story about what drafting Jalen Hertz would do to Carson Wentz's sort of leadership ability. People really liked Hertz. They didn't really like Wentz. That was a problem. Look, Washington went through that. With RG3 and Cousins, everybody in the building knew Cousins was better, and they had a better shot. But Griffin was the number two pick in the draft.

So. Well, here's what Washington fans don't have. to worry about probably any debate about analytics in their front office because as as i perceive it uh the guy in charge ron rivaa is not a huge analytics guy right no he's he is uh he's a coaching instincts guy he's a follow the gut guy oh the other the other thing i was just going to say is this is one of those things where you know if dan schneider reads this story you know, and he has any desire to get back involved and more involved than he maybe even has been over the last 10 years. I mean, Lurie and Roseman in that situation on the

football side, Lurie has been, again, to your point, the results have been much different. So, you know, drop the mic. I mean, whatever Lurie and Roseman have been doing, it's a lot better than most of the teams in the division, even if it doesn't seem like the right way. But it does seem like we may have caught them here at the beginning of a down swing. I think so. Maybe. I mean, eventually that behavior will probably catch up with you at some point. Unless you can continue to find coaches that basically don't mind being puppets.

And I'm not, I don't know if that's going to be the case with Siriani. There's a line in this story at the end about Siri. I mean, that sort of, after they fired Peterson, oh, by the way, all of the Philadelphia media, which is a tough media town, they were berating Lurie with questions about why Roseman wasn't fired, because that's who the fan base, I think, one had fired as well. And Lurie, during one of those press conference, it was written, Lurie seemed almost incredulous that Roseman was a subject of intrigue. You know, this is almost like you needed the hashtag fire Bruce Allen to even make the owner aware that people were had a problem with Bruce Allen.

But he was much more sort of reclusive publicly than Lurie's been. But anyway, a week later, after the coaching vacancies had already been filled around the league because they fired Peterson late. Lurie kicked off a search that started with 25 candidates and was paired down to 10 for interviews. Siriani was not considered a frontrunner for the job at the outset. He didn't interview anywhere else in 2021 and was not among the initial wave of interviewees. In the phone call offering Siriani the job, Lurie stated that he was so incredibly excited for the coach, you are and the coach you can become. And outside perception lingers that Siriani offered the Eagles a coach of least resistance

for management's involvement. But they also point out that the same was said about Peterson five years ago. But we knew who Doug Peterson was. Nobody really, unless you were in Indianapolis, I mean, or really hardcore on the AFC South knew who Nick Siriani was. Or if you did know who he was, you didn't know that he was going to become a head coach this year. You know, this sounds like what a lot of people have seen happen in baseball.

to some extent, where the coach basically carries out what the front office wants them to do, all the way down to who plays and who doesn't. Well, it's Art Howe and Billy Bean and Jonah Hill, Peter Brown. Yes, you're right. But it took years for that to really take hold in baseball. And if I mean, there's a lot of teams now that hire managers. Of course. Who they know will do what the front office tells them to do.

The nationals are not one of them, but a lot of teams do. Yeah, I mean, I understand. That model is so much more prevalent in baseball, but it's also more proven in baseball. Yeah, if you count the Houston Astros, I guess, and you take out the cheating, I'm not so sure it's proven. Yeah. from my good friend Al Galdi, because I bring it back one more time.

Yeah, that was the plan. Important thing is that he bats in no lower than third. Two best hitters should be two three. Davey has just done it, Turner Soto, instead of Soto Turner so far, even though that was the plan. Well, let me apologize for that. Yeah. It's all right. Okay.

And let me ask you a question. I'm just glad I remembered it correctly because I'm usually pretty good with memory things. at least. Why don't you Google Dave Martinez, Juan Soto, batting second in the lineup? Maybe I'm not using like the she insertion. No, I did. I did it right when you mentioned that to me. And I found the stuff from last year in the bubble

or in the short and season. I'm just telling you that, I mean, for a moment, I thought I was going crazy. But I'm glad that Zuck and Galdi at least told me that I wasn't crazy, that there was a lot of discussion. It was never the plan. It was, well, Mark Zuckerman covers the team and he does a damn good job doing it. You didn't, you didn't just, you mentioned, you mentioned, Galdi said it was the plan. But I mentioned, no, I mentioned Zuckerman earlier. I told you, would Zuck just texted me. Did you, did you forget? Or was it

something that they were considering? Uh, it was, it was an option. Davy seemed to really like this spring, but then Trey and Juan got off to a hot start. So now, even though the others are back, He's hesitant to change it. When we come back, Kuiper has his new mock, which has Washington taking a quarterback in the second round and some other interesting possibilities. Plus, Steph Curry last night set the all-time Warriors' scoring mark, breaking Wilts Chamberlain's record.

More on that right after this word from one of our sponsors. I don't know how you shore it up. I mean, he's making from everywhere now. He has two right there. And that's what. He knows. He just got himself the record. He passed Wilk Chamberlain on the all-time Warriors' scoring list.

Steph Curry last night became the all-time points leader in Golden State Warriors' history, a history that includes Philadelphia when they were the Philadelphia Warriors in the 60s. And Wilts Chamberlain, you may have heard of him, played for them. But Steph Curry became the all-time leading score. Warriors history. By the way, he had 53 last night, and he broke the record in the first quarter. He needed 19. He scored 21 in the first quarter last night. Now, that's not why I bring this story up. I bring this story up because I saved this for you, because I talked about it on radio yesterday. In these days leading up to him becoming the all-time Warriors' leading

scorer, there were a lot of different players asked several questions about Steph Curry, and one of them was, is Curry the best shooter of all time? I think you know my opinion on this. I think he is the greatest shooter I've ever watched in my lifetime of watching basketball. Reggie Miller said he is, he is. I always thought that Petrovich was, but we played the same position. I had to see it up close. I thought he was the greatest shooter that I'd ever seen up close.

but Steph has just taken shooting to a different level. Dirk pretty much said he's definitely got the quick release, the high arc. He probably have to put him at number one. And Jerry West, probably an opinion that you would value more, said, quote, I think to this point in time, yes, but you must remember he's creating another group of shooters that are going to try to emulate him. Will they work as hard?

Will they be as creative with their dribble? Will they be able to finish shots around the basket? People just talk about his ability to make shot after shot after shot. that's remarkable in itself. But to me, maybe the most remarkable thing is how is the most remarkable thing at all is how he shoot shots from everywhere. And I think that is a very underrated part of his game. And I think Jerry West nailed it on that. Jerry West had the smartest take of all on that.

Look, I would agree he's probably the greatest shooter in the history of the NBA. He's revolutionized the game or he's helped revolutionize the game. not in a way I prefer, but I can't dispute his impact on basketball. And like Jerry West said, there's lots of kids out there that are practicing to be Curry right now. And there may be a better one that that comes along. But I would agree that he's the best shooter I've ever seen. He is definitely the best shooter. And I've mentioned this to you before.

To me, he's the best shooter ball handler in one body I've ever seen before. You've always said it's Marevich. and I've said the, you know, I don't remember Merovich, except at the very end with like the Celtics, maybe briefly with the New Orleans jazz when they were playing in the Superdome in like the mid-70s. But Isaiah Thomas would be the comp for me in terms of a ball handler shooter in one body. But we never got a chance, obviously, with Merovich, and really not even with Isaiah, even though the three-point shot was around, to see what Merovich could have done with the three-point shot. And it wasn't an emphasis for Isaiah Thomas.

He averaged basically one and a half three point attempts, you know, a year, you know, during his best years in Detroit. So, you know, if he had been given the green light and if the game was similar to the way it is today, I think Isaiah Thomas had that kind of ability that Curry has as a combined ball handler shooter. But he's a better shooter than Isaiah. And he's the greatest shooter I've ever seen. I mean, there are guys, like to me, Reggie Miller is the greatest catch and shoot guy I've ever watched. there's no guy that was better coming off of a screen, catching it, squaring up, and getting it out of his hands quickly, and being such a pure shooter like Reggie Miller. And I'm talking about in my lifetime, you may have some guys.

Larry Bird was a fucking great shooter. Sometimes I don't think he's high enough up on this list. But Larry Bird had the picture-perfect shooting form. And even with the lack of athleticism, the understanding of the game and the ability to create space, and by the way, his son, guys, great shooter. Ray Allen was a great shooter. I think Clay Allen is one of my top shooters of all time, top scores. I mean, what a great jump shot. Picture perfect. Clay Thompson is really a great shooter, one of the all-time greats. Also a great catch-and-shoot guy, but also does it off the dribble. Now, the thing about Curry, he can catch and shoot,

but he really creates his shots off the dribble. And the only thing I would say, It sounds like we're not going to disagree that much on this. By the way, Durant's a phenomenal shooter. Dirk was a phenomenal shooter. And then you have all those three-point specialists, you know, whether it was Kerr or Pager or, you know, there's a lot of other guys. Hey, what about your boy Legler? Tim Legler could really shoot it, man.

He really could. He would have been perfect in this era. What really has changed the game, for me anyway, more than just the proliferation of three-point shots is the distance of the three-point shots. And this guy, Kurt Goldsbury, who writes for ESPN.com, wrote about this like a year or so ago. And it's one of the things I've talked about for a few years now

is the dimensions of the floor, the geometry, if you will, of the actual playing floor changes because of the distance of the three-point shot. Steph Curry basically, Dame Lillard, they shoot just inside half court. Not at the end of a quarter or the end of a half or the end of a game. You know, in transition, they pull up from 40 feet. And so when you have to defensively guard guys out to 30, 35 feet consistently,

it just creates so much more space. And in basketball, spacing is everything. And that's what's really changed the game. It's been really hard to stop teams from scoring when they've, got guys, you've got a guard out to 35 feet, certainly 30 feet. And that, I don't know how you're ever going to change that. Like, I don't know what you could do defensively. What you could do is you could shorten the shot clock. More people could get more aggressive in half court trap defensively to bring down points. But we're living in an age right now. So many

teams are basically impossible to stop. We talked about the Wizards and how bad they are defensively, and they are bad. But the truth is it's not like there are any great defensive teams. The best defensive teams, Tommy, tend to be the teams that move the most offensively and make you work on defense so you're a little bit more worn out offensively. Remember a few years ago when the Spurs were always rated super high defensively? Yeah, they had some good defenders. was a hell of a defender. Clay Thompson was a really good defender. Steph Curry wasn't a great defender. But really what it was is they were making you work so hard on defense, and they were scoring and putting more game pressure on you. And because you worked so hard defensively,

it had an effect on the other end. That's why you'll see a lot of coaches in college in particular. We don't want to take that first open three. We want to make you work defensively. We know if we make you work defensively, it's going to be easier for us defensively to guard you. And I think that was a lot of what the warriors were a few years ago when they were not just winning titles and scoring lots of points and making three after three, but they were also ranked very high defensively. I think a lot of it was how good they were offensively and how hard they made teams work defensively. defensively. I'll tell you what, man, if you got to pick up a guy when he crosses half court because he's in range, that is no fun. No fun. And that's where the games change. It's

the three-point shooting, of course, but it's the distance. How far back these guys go to shoot it. I'm sure Maravitch would have been the same, and I'm sure Isaiah and a lot of those guys from the 70s would have been the same. Who would have been the best three-point shooter of that era, of the 70s, your era, when you played for the Knickerbockers? I'm not so sure. Maravich was a scorer as much as a shooter. Right. You know, I mean, Maravich averaged 44 points a game in college basketball.

I know. Division I won college basketball without the three-point shot one season. So, I mean, I don't know who the best shooter would be. Rick Barry. Oh, there you go. Rick Barry. That was easy. You're right.

Right? Definitely Rick Barry. Yeah, in terms of what he would have been, had the three-point shot been around? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Phil Sheenier would have been a hell of a three-point shooter. He would have been a great three-point shooter. Hey, by the way, I just wanted to tell anybody, you know who's on Twitter?

Earl Monroe is on Twitter. Okay. It's a new thing. Earl just joined Twitter, and Earl Monroe is one of my. favorite players. So I'm following them on Twitter. So give them a follow. All right. Let's follow the Pearl on Twitter. You know, there was one other quick thing that I wanted to mention. It was yesterday, I think Steve Kerr said something about last year, or recently

Steve Kerr, the head coach of the Warriors, obviously, had a comment about last year. You know, last year was a disastrous year with all the injuries and nobody playing. whatever they went, 15 and 50 or whatever their record was. Steve Kerr apparently said about last season that he enjoyed last season more than Kevin Durant's final season with the Warriors. That last year, speaking of the final year that Durant was there, was tough. There was a lot going on that some of you don't know about and some that there was a lot going on, excuse me, some that you know about and some that you don't. That was very difficult.

Kevin Durant, of course, retweeted this guy that basically put, tweeted out the comments from Kerr saying this is hilarious. Durant is so sensitive. So sensitive. All right. I wanted to finish up with Mel Kuyper's latest draft board. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. One more plug for the radio show, Team 980.com. I did an interview this morning, Tommy, with this guy, Kurt Badenhausen, who used to be one of the guys at Forbes that generated the Forbes sports team valuations each year.

Now he's at a place called Sportico. Anyway, the reason I had him on initially was because he had written a story about Hadeki Matsuyama that he'd be able to essentially parlay the Masters win into 600 million in lifetime earnings. Andy North suggested that it could be worth a billion dollars to Matsuyama. And that was the reason for having him on. This guy was really good, and I would urge you to go back and listen to it if you have time. But anyway, there was something else that came out of it. I said, I didn't know, by the way, that he was one of the guys at Forbes that had done the valuations. But he had written on his Twitter page that he was the sports evaluation guy and that he used to be at Forbes.

So I said, were you one of the guys? He said, yeah, there were two of us that did that for years. And I said to him, I go, so tell me what you think about the Washington football situation. Had it, you know, been sold, had this thing, you know, developed differently, and Snyder had been forced to sell. And he said, well, the latest valuation was $3.4 billion in Forbes, but that isn't reflective of what it would be worth if it hit the open market. He said there was a lot of conversation between bankers about what Washington would be worth if it were sold. It would have been the biggest sale in North American sports history. It would have gone easily for north of $4 billion.

And if there had been multiple people involved, it could have sold for closer to $5 billion. And he made the point, and I made this point to a few weeks ago that, you know, Snyder's buyout of Fred Smith and Rothman and Dwight Schar at a $2.2 billion valuation was a bargain for Snyder. Yes. It was an absolute bargain. Now, it was always going to be a lower valuation because it was a minority stake that they had. But still, he said, yes, Snyder got it at a deep, deep discount, which just tells you just how badly these guys wanted to get away from them. And he said, the other thing that was discussed in sort of the banking world as it related to them was, you know, it was going to be hard to find anybody to pay, you know, top. dollar for the minority shares that Smith, Schar, and Rothman had because it was a limited

marketplace because of Snyder, that there weren't a lot of people that wanted to buy into a minority share and be there in an organization with Dan Snyder. And that's ultimately why the minority shareholders just said, you know, to hell with it, we'll take the $2.2 billion valuation just to get rid of this thing and get out of here. So it was a very interesting conversation. Anyway, I wanted to end the show with Kuyper's latest mock draft. He did a two-round mock draft this morning, and I think it's really interesting. And it's a follow-up, too, to some of the conversations that Kooley and I have had.

He does have San Francisco selecting Mack Jones at number three overall. Kooley thinks there's a chance that Trey Lance would be a perfect fit and isn't, you know, dismissing that it could be Trey Lance that the 49ers traded up to select. And then he's got the dolphins trading up to Atlanta's number four spot to select Kyle Pitts. Many people believe, and I would probably subscribe to this idea, that Kyle Pitts is maybe the number one guy on most people's draft boards. He's just not a quarterback. So he's got Miami trading up a couple of spots to draft pits, and then Cincinnati takes the tackle, and then Atlanta at six takes Trey Lance.

And then the next quarterback to go is the Patriots in a trade with the Cowboys at 10. They take Justin Fields. So five quarterbacks in the top 10. What was really interesting about this is he has Washington taking the Notre Dame linebacker, Ouso Coromoa, at 9. But then he did a two-round mock. And when we get to the second round, and there have been a lot of quarterbacks mentioned, a lot of quarterbacks mentioned, you know, Kyle Trask, Kellyn Monde, Jamie Newman. Kuiper has one quarterback taken in the sixth round, and he now believes that...

Second round. In the second round, thank you. He now believes that the sixth best quarterback, the quarterback that will be taken after the first obvious five, is Davis Mills, the quarterback from Stanford, and he has Washington selecting Mills in the second round at 51. Kuyper said on one of the shows this morning, and I was watching it, that he doesn't think that Mills really is a second rounder. He does believe that the NFL and many scouts are trending towards him being the first quarterback to go after the top five. He's got a third round grade on him, but he doesn't like any of the quarterbacks. He said, Mond and Trask are dropping.

It doesn't surprise me about Kellyn Monde. I'd be surprised if he ended up being the sixth pick. I'll be honest with you. I watch a lot of college football. I didn't watch a lot of Stanford this year. Davis Mills was apparently the highest recruited high school player at that position coming out. And, you know, he's like a 6-4-220-pound pocket guy. All the highlights you see of him is him playing with a knee brace on.

Like he looks, you know, and Stanford is one of the few. few remaining schools in college football that play a total NFL offense. It's what they do. They run the ball. Quarterbacks always under center. It's essentially what David Shaw's had in place since he's been there is a very conservative NFL-style offense. But Davis Mills, and, you know, everybody suggested, Kuiper suggested, this is the name that's going to get talked about more and more. more and more as we approach the draft.

And my only comment to that would be, if that's true, somebody's going to take him at the end of the first round. Nobody's going to let a guy that is the next best get to the second round where they don't own that fifth year in a contract, especially if he's going to come in and sit behind somebody. You know, if Mills is really the next guy, Tampa with their final pick in the first round could take them. there are teams like the Saints and Pittsburgh, you know, later on in the first round. You know, that's the thing about quarterbacks.

You know, if you're not going to play them right away to learn whether or not, you know, you're a couple of years away from picking up that. You're getting them on the cheap, but you're also getting the fifth year with the first round designation. So I would bet that the sixth best quarterback in this draft goes at the end of the first round. That's what I would bet happens today, that somebody ends up trading up to the end of the first round or somebody like Tampa takes their quarterback of the future at the end of the first round, so they own that fifth year or the fifth year option on the player. If Washington drafts him, I heard the plan is to bat him second.

Very good. Bringing the whole show full circle is Tom Leverro. All right. What else you got? You got anything? I got nothing else for you today, boss. Read that story. If you're an athletic subscriber, I'm telling you the Eagles story was really well done, and it really gives you a picture of the Eagles. I knew that things weren't great. I had no idea about how involved Jeffrey Lurie was. No idea. Yes, I'd recommend if you're a Washington football fan, read it. It'll make you feel good. Well, I don't know if it'll make you feel, if it'll make you feel good or not. I think you made the best. point. It's like, however it's working there, they actually have been winning. But not last year and maybe not this year. I still think they have talent. By the way, another part of that story, the best players got preferential treatment from the owner. Does that sound familiar?

Very familiar. All right. We're done for the day. I'm back tomorrow with Cooley. He'll have another quarterback film breakdown. I think he's going to do Zach Wilson or Mac Jones. Maybe both of them. So back tomorrow.