The Kevin Sheehan Show - Is Terry VS Team Killing The Vibe?

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

Kevin and Thom today on if the Terry McLaurin saga is wearing people out and killing the excitement about the upcoming season. The guys discussed the value appreciation of the Commanders since Josh Harris & Co. purchased the team two years ago. The team ranked 10th among Sportico's NFL team valuations and 15th overall for all sports. Plenty on Ben Standig's suggestion that Brian Robinson Jr. might not be on the opening day roster and more on Jayden Daniels' broken rib. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. He is Kevin. Tommy Sear, I am here. The show's presenting sponsor. As always, Window Nation 86690 Nation,

Window Nation.com if you need new windows. You know, on Tuesday's show, I believe. Could have been last week's show. But you discussed the Milwaukee Brewers. and said that you are picking them to win the World Series. They just won their 12th game in a row. They have won now 27 out of their last 31 games. Their winning streaks this year now include an 8-game winning streak and 11-game winning streak,

and now they are in the midst of a 12-game winning streak. I'm not following it very closely. I'm just curious what makes Milwaukee so good. Why were they at one point in late May, I believe, four games under 500, and now they are running away with the National League Central? Well, without breaking down how they built the roster, which I'm not able to do since I don't write much about the brewers. The one thing about the brewers that people consistently talk about,

is how they play the game the right way. They don't make mistakes. They don't play themselves out of innings. They don't play themselves out of runs. They have a very good defense behind a strong pitching staff, and they never beat themselves. You've got to beat the brewers to beat the brewers, and that's what everyone talks about.

They're very well-managed. They're very well-disciplined on the field, and that's the reputation that they're carrying with them these days, that they don't make many mistakes. And we've seen, you know, the nationals make lots of mistakes so we know how damaging they can be on the field. The brewers don't do that. They don't have stupid base running moves and things like that.

They have a plus 159 run differential. It's so far ahead of the next best, which is the Cubs in their division. at plus 116. They've scored, I think, the second most runs of any team in baseball. The Dodgers have scored the most. By the way, they got swept by the Angels. I saw that early this morning. And they are now not in first place in the National League West. San Diego is now in first place. So the Brewers are that good. I mean, they are seven games better than anybody else in the National League right now.

And they are six games better than anybody in the American League. So they have quite the, I mean 27 of 31, going back to just shortly before the All-Star break. They are on an absolute tear.

Yeah, they have a good bullpen, good pitching, and, you know, they got a good manager. So they got a lot of ingredients to And that would be great for the Brewers to win it all. They've never won a World Series.

Right. Okay. I just saw that right before we started to record, and I remember that you said it recently. I don't know if it was on Tuesday show or Thursday show. It could have been three weeks ago for all, I know. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot.

I mean, you mentioned the Dodgers. That's a hell of the story. They're collapsed right now. I mean, they had a big lead in the NLS, lesson that basically they played themselves out of it. You know, so the Dodgers, like we talked about before, for all the money that they've spent over the years and all the analytics that they've used,

they have really one World Series to show for it. Right. Well, we'll see what happens in the postseason. I wouldn't bet against them. No, but I also point out, like I have before, they have three Hall of Famer, future Hall of Famers, in their lineup. And they didn't develop any of them.

Lucky Betts, Shio Yotani, and Freddie Freeman. Well, they either signed them as free agents. You're saying in their lineup, they certainly have one on their pitching staff. Yes, in their lineup. Yep.

Yeah. Because Kershaw is pitching again, correct? I'm pretty sure he has been. Yes, he is. Yeah, he has been. Yeah, I think he's been pitching pretty well. How old is he?

Is he 40 yet? He's got to be nearing 40, right? He is... He's got to be. He's 37. He's 37. Oh, okay. Yeah.

That's not bad. His last two starts, one earned run, went six innings in both of his last two starts, and allowed total one earned run in two straight wins. He's six and two as a starter, and his ERA has been lowered now to 3.14. So he will be part of the rotation, I would assume, when we get to the postseason. I'm guessing. And in the American League, on the other side, it's certainly fun to watch the Yankees struggle. Yeah, they've been struggling too.

Possibly not make the playoffs. You know, I mean, you know, Toronto Blue Jays are gunning to win the AEO East. And the Red Sox are right there, you know, competing with them. So it's fun to watch the Yankee's street. The Yankees right now have a one-game lead over Cleveland for the last wildcard spot. So they have clearly struggled here over the last month. The National League, by the way, the Mets have not played well recently. The Phillies have.

They have a five-game lead. And the Mets are hanging on right now to the last wild card by a game over Cincinnati. So there you go. All right. This from Brian. Brian writes one big takeaway from the commander's preseason game. If we keep all 90 players, start with the second stringers, put in the third stringers without a game plan. We probably won't win much this year.

The NFL preseason is the absolute worst. Yes, Brian, you seem to get it. Yeah. When you start your seconds and go to your third, quickly, and then here come the fourths with no game plan. You really can't take it seriously, even though many have. I want to ask you about a call that I got on the show yesterday. Somebody called yesterday about the Terry McLaren saga. I had John on the show yesterday. John Kime wrote a lengthy story on ESPN.com about the impasse that the team and Terry have,

are, you know, at right now. He had some news, the news being one league source could see Washington paying $28 million per year, so coming up. But that would still mean Terry would have to come down a lot and accept something less than $30 million per year. But I had a caller call in and say, you know, this whole Terry McClellan situation is ruining the vibe heading into this season. I was so excited for the season, and now I'm not quite as excited because of this Terry McCloran saga. And I said, I don't feel that way at all. I mean, I can't wait to see this team, and maybe it's because I understand, I think, with some level of common sense, that Terry McLaren's going to play.

He just doesn't have many options not to play. but you said to me before we started to record this podcast, you said, God, I'm so sick of this Terry situation. And I'm wondering if other fans feel the same way. Maybe people feel like it's draining and that it's kind of killing the anticipation, the buzz for what should be the most exciting season, at least going into it, that we've had in 20 years, minimum, since maybe Joe Gibbs was the head coach in 2004. What do you think? I think it absolutely is. I think I've warned about this, I mean, about how, you know, it turns out the potential for this to turn off fans

who have been, you know, rolling along on this feel-good train ride for the commanders. I mean, not, you know, turn them away, but turn them off a little bit. Yes, I think that's absolutely true. That said, I think it could change on a dime once they make a deal. Okay? But, yes, I do agree with him that I think it has worn on people, and I think it has taken away from the excitement and the positive feelings for this franchise for a lot of fans. But again, that would disappear the minute that, you know, but, but, but, look, maybe it would

disappear even if they don't make a deal. And then Terry goes into the season and plays on his current contract. But I suspect, you know, every time they lose a game, it will come up. So, they need to make a deal. Yeah, I just, I, I guess I could see. how maybe somebody I mean look it's the first off season we've talked about this

the first preseason we've had around here I mean forever where there are actual expectations entering the season like legitimate expectations to win double digit games and contend for a Super Bowl

appearance out of the NFC so anything that is negative a holdout is of a really good player and a popular player is going to be, it's just going to be received much differently than if your team is supposed to be a 5 and 12 team or a 6 and 11 team. So I get that.

We haven't had experience with that. You know, you see these stories every single summer. And the ones that get the most attention typically are those really good players on teams that are supposed to be good. You know, we have the Trey Hendrickson situation. That's been a big, you know, talking point all season, all off season long. Why? Because the Bengals have Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins and they're as good as

anybody in the league offensively. And their defense stunk. And without Trey Hendrickson, it'll really be bad. We're having it with Micah Parsons. Look, anything with the Cowboys, whether they're supposed to be good or not good, is a big deal. We had it with T. Jay Watt there for a little while with a team that, you know, has expectations going into the season. You know, the James Cook thing that just ended in Buffalo.

You don't hear about the ones on bad teams typically. And so, I don't know, for me, I can only speak for myself. Like, as long as Jaden Daniels is the quarterback and he is, they're going to be a competitive team that has a chance to win more games. then they lose. They're going to have a chance to win every game they play. I'm not looking forward to seeing, you know, Jaden Daniels out there without Terry McLorn, but I don't have to look forward to that or not look forward to that. He's going to be out there. Now, you say it's going to be a big story if he doesn't have a contract extension every time what, they don't play well or they lose, but I would assume that it's more. I said it will be a story. I didn't say it would.

be a big story. I mean, it will come up during the season if they struggle, particularly in the passing game. Look, if Terry doesn't have a good season without a contract extension, if offensively they're not, you know, good like they were last year, it'll certainly be an issue. So yeah, I guess not signing a contract extension. If anything goes wrong offensively or anything goes wrong with his performance, people are going to say, well, Terry's just not happy. You know, they had a chance to, you know, keep the vibe going, keep the momentum rolling, keep their second or third best player on the team with them long-term, happy, and they blew it. I don't disagree with that. I'm not, I probably won't blame it on that. I have a hard time

believing Terry won't be a pro. And I have a hard time believing, too, that if he is out there, that they're going to struggle on offense, that we're going to be sitting here saying, wow, they really are a different team this year. What happened? I don't see that. I don't think Terry will self-destruct. I don't think that he'll play.

I just don't think it's in him, like you said. But it doesn't matter what the reason is. If they struggle offensively and it has nothing to do with Terry McLaurin, the Terry McLaurin contract will come up. Yeah. You're sick of talking about it. I think it's, I'm sick of talking about it. I would like it to end.

I predicted on the show yesterday that it'll end within 10 days. To me, if it goes much past 10 days and we're now, you know, staring at the third preseason game on August 23rd, which is nine days away, and we get past that and it's countdown mode. At that point, I just don't know if Washington has a lot of incentive to get him signed to a long-term deal. You know, I would imagine that there is some sort of deadline. I don't, no one's reported that.

It's a guess that at this point, you know, Washington is said to Terry and Terry's agent, look, the offer that we're making right now has an expiration date. And I, because again, they, they don't have to give him this contract extension. He's under contract. And then he, they control his 2026 season too because of the franchise tag. And, and I've said this over and over again, but not having to shell out 50 million, you know, or 60 million. And instead, just pay as you go.

and a lot less, you know, will look more enticing if it doesn't look enticing already when there's no training camp left for him to get ready for the season. I think that the offer is still on the table because there's a chance for Terry to come in and get, you know, literally three weeks of work with Jaden, with Debo, with the new offensive line, with whatever Kingsbury has changed about the offense, whatever's new. Not that he's not taking it all in anyway, but he's not on the field doing it. But I don't actually know that that's a standard thing in contract negotiations, or maybe the better way to put it is, or the better way to think about it is contract negotiations that go badly

and end up coming to an impasse like this one has. I wonder if it is typical for teams to put an expiration date. on their offer. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What's the logic behind that? The logic behind that is some level of urgency. Like, this is it.

If you want 50 million guaranteed, this is your last best opportunity to get it. You're not going to have that opportunity next year or the year after. That would be self-destructive too for the team. Why? Because what if Terry, two weeks after that, he changed his mind. and they say no, you know, that deal doesn't exist anymore? Yeah.

Well, that's kind of foolish. I mean, that's spiteful. It's not spiteful. There's a practicality to it. Part of getting him into camp, having him be a part of the team leading up to this season. If he's going to come in on the Tuesday before the giant game, at that point, he's playing out the final year of his deal. I'm not giving him 50 million bucks.

guaranteed. I'm going to pay as I go. I've got the flexibility next year to use the franchise tag. It may be the way they're leaning anyway. Giving him a contract extension may be the acknowledgement of what a great guy and locker room guy and how great he is for the organization. There's a lot that makes sense about not offering him a contract extension entering his age 30 season. John, you know, talked about they're heavy on analytics. Receivers, once they turn 31, there's a lot of data out there that says the chances that they're going to be diminished from 31 on are pretty good. That's his problem more than anything else is his age. Yeah. Yeah.

And so offering him, you know, generational money at 50 to whatever it is million, even if the average average annual isn't what he wants and it's not the D.K. Metcalf deal, they don't have to do it. He's under contract. I think that they would benefit from having some flexibility cap-wise next year. And then in year three of the deal, because I would assume that there's going to be a year three of the deal. He would be age 32 in 27. And then somehow after that season, they could get out painlessly as he's getting ready to turn 33. but they don't have to do this, Tommy. The assumption all along was they'll do this. They want him.

But the more and more you see what their or kind of get a feel for what their position is, their position is we're not giving this guy a massive, you know, a high-level elite receiver deal when there's a decent chance that after this season, or certainly after 2026, he'll start to, you know, have diminishing skills and diminishing contribution. If they only think two years of Terry makes sense, they should pay as they go and not give them a contract extension. That's cold, but it makes sense.

That's the part of it that they'd have to measure. How are we going to be viewed? Will it hurt us? Will it damage us to play the hard ass in this contract negotiation and say, take it or leave it and once you've left it, that's it. We're paying as we go. And Terry's got every incentive to go out this year and have a big year. Entering his age 31 season off of a so-so season isn't going to help him get a big contract. It won't even help him get $28.6 million or $29 million in a franchise tag. As I'm sitting here discussing this, it's like

I'm not forgetting how good of a player Terry is and how important he is to the team. He is. He's a really good player and he's really important to the team. And I think the team's chances to get to a Super Bowl are less without him, clearly. I do think that. Even though I don't think Terry's an elite receiver, I think he is super, super important to this group. and I want them to sign them to a deal

and I want them to do it quickly. But at the same time, you know, that story from John tells you, you know, the age and the precedent, the other big part of it was with Tunsel next year, with potentially Louvo, Latimore, Debo, they do not want to set a precedent that they will overpay players

if players hold out and hold their feet to the fire. they do not want to succumb to Terry's demands here. They may come up a little bit, but they're not giving him a deal that starts with a three more likely than not, unless it is some sort of, you know, phony kind of 30 million a year. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. You're sick of talking about this. I really am.

I know. God bless John Kime. I can't fathom right in another Terry McCorn story. so he signs a contract. Well, this was a good one. John had a lot of really good stuff in it. I think we learned something about where they might be able, might be thinking about coming up to. We learned that age and precedent, you know,

are really the two drivers in this. And the age thing is really based heavily on analytics, the analytics of the position. And, yeah. And one thing that, hasn't changed at all. The team has all the leverage because Terry's under contract and Terry entering his age 30 season, Tommy, just doesn't have many options. There just aren't cards for him to play. If he were 25, 26, there'd be another big opportunity down the road to put 60 million into

his bank account. This might be the last chance for that. He's going to have to give in for a deal to get done. That's what makes sense to me. I might be wrong. I've been wrong about this thing all along, starting with I thought they would have a deal done before training camp. But it just, it doesn't, Terry just doesn't have much leverage here, you know, and the idea that the fans would be super supportive and agents would really look at Washington in a way that was, I'm not going to send players there. I think some of that's. overrated personally. It's not Dan Snyder.

They're sending their players to play for. It's a different organization. It's Dan Quinn. So you think a holdout is zero chance. Like not playing. I don't know what it would do for him.

The only thing that it could do for him... It could force a trade. The only thing it could do for him is if the team was just dreadful in the first game or two without him. And it was obvious that it was because they didn't have a receiver on the field of NFL quality. That could help him, I guess.

But I don't see that happening. I don't either. I don't either, but I just wonder how deep the resentment. I think Terry McClureen values loyalty. I think that's the way he conducts himself. And I think he probably feels betrayed. I think he does too. I think we heard that.

And again, you know, it's, you can't, he feels like what he's done and what he went through should be acknowledged and should weigh heavily in this contract extension. And the team doesn't feel that way clearly. And on some level, what I said a little while, ago, the team offering a contract extension, which, you know, gets him to $28 million a year and 50 to, you know, 55 million guaranteed, is an acknowledgement of we really like you. We really want you to be here. We really want you to end your career here. But we don't have to offer this to you. You're turning 30, and I know that people still are rolling their eyes, but the analytics say after 31, so they're looking at it, you know, two years. of Terry, you know, at Terry's level. And that's a big part of the problem here and why they're not willing to give him,

you know, a D.K. Metcalf deal. I mean, the Metcalf deal is just an outlier for a number of reasons. But, yeah, I mean, I think in some ways they're probably saying, look, our perspective is we don't have to do this. And we're doing it. We're giving you an offer. And we're giving you a chance and probably your last chance to put 50, million into your account. Guaranteed.

You know, to paraphrase a line from Sydney Green Street in the Maltese Falcon. Didn't see. Sometimes men, in the heat of the moment, don't always act in their best interests. Is it just men? Well, yeah. Yeah. I didn't see the Maltese Falcon. Is that...

Don't tell me that. I know. It's like criminal. I know. Play criminal. We can stop the podcast right now until you go watch it. I think I've told you that before. It's one of the great scripts of all time.

There's not a wasted line in the whole movie. All right. We got other things to get to. We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. Window Nation's most popular offer of the years being offered right now. 50% off all Windows styles. and you don't have to pay anything for two full years.

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86690 Nation, Windonation.com. So, Tommy, the Sportico sports franchise valuation list came out where they assign a valuation to every major sports team, including soccer teams. The Cowboys are worth $12.8 billion. That's up 18%. And Washington is up 19% from where they were a year ago. they are worth $7.47 billion, the 10th most valuable NFL franchise, and the 15th most valuable sports franchise. You know, it was just two years ago, just about two years and two weeks ago, that they paid just over $6 billion the Harris Group did for the team.

And a lot of people thought that they overpaid. A lot of people bowed out of that, you know, the Tillman-Fertita guy, there were a couple of people sniffing around that deal, but ultimately the only buyer that was willing to step up to six, which is what Snyder wanted, or something just above six, was Josh Harris and his 20-something limited partners. And two years later, they've got a $1.47 billion gain in value. Not bad. The Lakers sale when they sold, you know, whatever, 80% of it, whatever the bus family sold for the $10 billion valuation certainly didn't hurt, you know, any of these NFL franchises.

The Celtics are about to sell for $6.1 billion, which will actually be when it's finalized, in terms of the approval of it, will be the largest sale in North American sports history, topping. the skin sale from two years ago, but they did okay. I mean, it's going to keep going higher the NFL franchises in particular because they still don't accept foreign or private equity money. And once you get into accepting oil money and private equity money, like, that's just going to increase the value of your franchise even more. Washington's sale might be the last that, you know, just focused on, you know, non-foreign, non-private equity buyers. That group is more limited.

You know, everybody thinks that there are just plenty of people out there that can pay $6 billion for a sports team. We found out two summers ago, there were only a few. Now, Bezos could have done it, obviously. But he didn't want to sell it to Bezos. Not a bad return so far. No, look, the NFL, it's only going to grow. I mean, I don't know where the falloff is. I don't know if there is any.

It could be some remarkable phenomenon like COVID or something like that, something unpredictable. But there's no predictable falloffers. The NFL just got disacquired 10% of ESPN. Yeah. Equity, 10% of ESPN. Yeah. Okay. There's no stopping, and it's all live sports.

I mean, Paramount just paid billions of dollars for USC. Right. You know, to broadcast U.S. because it's live sports. That's why that's the hot commodity, and the king of live sports is the NFL. So I don't see this. slowing down at all. It's really incredible that the live sports are the last

product out there that people are willing to pay big money for. I think I saw the other day, by the way, just if you want to watch every NFL game this coming season, I think it's over $1,000 to subscribe to everything. If you want to watch every single game, because we have, you know, not only the network games,

but we've got, you know, Amazon games, we've got YouTube games, we've got Peacock games. I'm missing something there. Is there a Hulu game? I don't know if there's a Hulu game. I don't think there's a Hulu game. But there, the consumer is willing to pay it for the NFL. There's no doubt.

Live sports in particular, live NFL games, live college football games, are just a gold mine, and they're keeping broadcast TV alive. Yeah, that's exactly right. But, you know, ESPN just made a deal with Fox to bundle their streaming services together. I mean, broadcast television is hanging on by its fingernails. Yeah. People who want to cut the cord, this ESPN,

Fox, you know, package that they'll be able to purchase will result in many more people cutting the cord and doing away with cable. It'll be easier for sports fans to do it with that package. So, look, the Packers, who are a public company and their finances get reported as a public company. Right. They reported that they got, I think $432 million, either this year or last year, in television revenue. Right. That's 132nd. Yep.

Yes. So before the commanders even open the door and sell a ticket, they're getting a check for $432 million. Yeah. It's just unstoppable. 13, 14 billion in the media package. By the way, and looking through the rest of the... the Sportico list. The highest-valued NBA team, actually, it's weird because the Lakers here have an $8.07 billion

valuation. So the group, what was the name of the group, the guy's name, Mark Walter? Was that it? Guggenheim. Is it a Guggenheim or something like that? Yeah. The guy goes to Dodgers. Yes, that guy.

Yeah. He paid basically for whatever 80% of the team. He paid a $10 billion valuation. I guess this is not taking that into consideration. Well, I've always said that we see this time, like, you know, the Phillies a couple years ago sold, you know, had a valuation set to sell a piece. That's not the sales price. They're two different. Yeah, I know.

Sale price is always less. Yeah. Yeah, I understood. It's just that that's a big difference. He paid in at a 10, he bought in at a $10 billion valuation. They're valued at $8.07 billion. But anyway, Golden State is the most valuable NBA franchise. The Yankees are the most valuable baseball franchise.

They come in at seventh overall. Golden State's more valuable. They're the fourth most valuable franchise. And the first hockey franchise listed is the Toronto Maple Leafs. or worth $3.66 billion. They're the 61st most valuable franchise in all of sports. I guess the Toronto market is the biggest in Canada, right? I think so.

Toronto's the biggest city in Canada, isn't it? Yeah, I believe it is. Yeah. I believe it's bigger than Montreal. And bigger than Vancouver. I would think Montreal would be the second biggest city. So Toronto's the biggest. They've got a bunch of soccer teams.

here. They're all basically at the bottom of this list. Columbus, the Blue Jackets, are the least valuable of the four major sports at $1.06 billion. The Nats

come in, the Wizards come in actually at 54th overall at $3.98 billion. The Nationals at 80th overall at $2.25 billion. And the capital are 88th at $1.86 billion.

So the Nats have a $2.25 billion assigned valuation to it. What did they want? What did the learners want? Some people have speculated $2.5 billion. Okay. Did you see that the twins owners pulled the twins off the market? This is a trend, isn't it, in baseball? Yeah, it is.

said there could be lots of reasons. One could be the uncertainty of the labor agreement going into the last year of the deal next year and the possibility of a lockout. You know, if that, like I said before, if there's a lockout and a labor stoppage and baseball comes out of it with a salary cap, the value of that franchise goes up significantly. then you've got your labor costs contained. You know what they are going in. So until that gets resolved, I don't think you're going to see any team,

other than the race who are being sold for different circumstances. I don't think you'll see any team sold until the labor agreement is reached. As long as there are salaries with no cap in that sport, it seems like that's the biggest turnoff. For an owner. Yes. You know? For a fan, I mean, I think it's great that you get these huge free agent deals.

I think it generates, it's baseball's version of generating interest in the offseason. Look, they're never going to get a salary cap. That's never going to happen. The players union for baseball. is head and tail stronger than any unions in sports around. And there are players that will go to their grave before they'll allow a salary cap in that. So they think the owners can talk themselves into it like they've tried to before, but that's not going to happen.

All right. Let's finish up the show with a couple of odds and ends after this from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shellies. 12th and Thursday, I typically give you the Shelley specials on the menu for this week. Like I've said before, shelley's is a special place. Everything is special that they have on their drink, cigar, and food menu. But every week, they pick out a couple of food extras with special pricing. that in D.C. where food can be very expensive,

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It wasn't this one. Man, I should have asked him. He sent this to me. Maybe it was his own podcast. I'm going to say it was his own podcast, where he said the following about Brian Robinson, Jr. He said, quote, I'm going to guess Brian Robinson is not on the week one. roster. I have no insight into that. If Kroski merits on this team, I just don't know how you're sitting him, closed quote. Wow. Now, that's a bombshell. Now, I, look, there's been a lot

about Bill, you know, Jacori Kroski, Kroski Merit, aka Bill Merit, that people have loved, you know, when he's not getting tackled in practice. I actually, pointed out that you could see how, you know, his vision, his feet were in that game against New England, but you can see that watching him at New Mexico in particular. Now here's the question I'll have for Ben on the radio show today. Ben will be on the radio show. We are recording this on early Thursday morning before they've actually practiced today. I'm assuming he doesn't think they'll release Brian Robinson, Jr. There's no real benefit to releasing him.

He's in the final year of his rookie deal. I would assume that he thinks that they could get something back for Brian Robinson, Jr. I don't know that they'd get much back. I mean, you know, they are limited in draft choices because of all the draft choices. You know, they essentially traded eight picks starting with the Latimore deal leading up to this year's draft, but some of those were 2026 draft choices. as well. I don't know what you'd get back for Brian Robinson, Jr. to be honest with you, but I'd be surprised at that. I wouldn't be shocked. And Ben has really good instincts when it

comes to this and this time of year. I felt that way for a few years. And when he says, I don't have any insight, that means this is all his gut, because he wouldn't mention that if he had some insight on this. Kroski Merritt, by the way, right now has a hurt shoulder. So let's keep that in mind. But I did say the other day, I'm like, they only kept three running backs on the roster last year on cut down day. And if Brian Robinson, Jr., Austin Echler, and Jeremy McNichols are Givens, and I said this the other day, then they'll have to keep four backs if they're going to keep their seventh round draft pick and they're going to have to move on from Chris Rodriguez.

So maybe it's three backs, but it's Bill, Eckler, and McNichols. McNichols is going to make this team. He's too good of his special teams player. They love him, and they love the role that he plays. And Echler, obviously, healthy that they were really good with Echler last year on the field. And I guarantee you they've got a lot of plans for Echler this year. Hopefully he can stay on the field. But that would be a surprise.

You know, I thought, that if Brian Robinson Jr. wasn't going to be on this team, and I started to talk about this before, you know, well in advance of the draft, but when they didn't draft a running back in the first three, two nights of the draft, I'm like, well, you know, maybe if they take one in the fourth round, Brian Robinson Jr. is in trouble, but they didn't take one until the seventh round. So I dismissed that as a possibility. But I thought there was a chance going into the draft that Brian Robinson Jr. could be in trouble. And I thought the draft would be the indicator of that. Maybe the draft pick in the seventh round. Maybe he is, you know, the diamond in the rough,

because I've mentioned this many times, Tommy, over the last 10 years, only one seventh round running back has made any kind of meaningful contribution to a team. And that's Pacheco in Kansas City. Every other seventh rounder basically fell by the wayside. that's I've never I've never been enamored with their with their

running back room and I think we talked if we turn back the clock at least from my point of view there were two positions in free agency that I thought that they should go for

and that was past rusher and running back and I think you know when Nick Chubb was available and some of these other guys were available, I think we speculated that one of them would wind up here, and that didn't happen. Yep. Yeah.

So I've never been – look, Austin Echler is one concussion away from being out of the league. I understand that. But if he's healthy, he is really, really important. Yes, he is. Very big concern. an offensive playmaker for them, that they were better with him on the field than without him on the field. Absolutely. I, um... And Brian Robinson has never been the same.

Uh, hasn't seemed to be the same, uh, after his injury last year. Yeah, he had a couple of fumbles in that Philadelphia game. He had a very good game in Detroit, very good game in Detroit in the postseason. Um, it's just funny that, Ben has gotten here. So I am taking note of this because I think that he could be onto something. Again, I thought it was a possibility before the draft. And then after the draft, I didn't think it was a possibility. Because if you really were looking to replace Brian Robinson, Jr., then there were a lot of backs in this draft that you could have taken night two or even early on day three. And they passed on all of them, and they took this kid, you know, in the seventh round. But maybe they had

their eyes on this kid all along and knew because he didn't really play last year that he would be there in the seventh round. That would be brilliant drafting if Jacori Cross Kemi Merit, aka Bill, ends up being their lead back this year and being an effective lead back. He definitely has the vision, the open field. He runs a little bit upright, but, you know, there's a lot to like from his New Mexico tape. There's no doubt about that. I mean, as far as, you know, a fan's perspective goes. But that would be interesting. What would they get back for Brian Robinson, Jr.? I don't think a ton, you know, it'd be a day three pick. It'd be a fifth rounder, probably a fifth sixth, something like that, you know, conditional. This from Connor. Connor writes, Kevin,

I listened to the show where you and Tom discussed Jaden's rib injury. There were two thoughts that I had that you didn't mention. I wanted to present them as possibilities. First, is it possible that when Jaden said, I threw the Hail Mary with a broken rib, that he was being slightly hyperbolic when he looked back on the Hail Mary? I know he's not usually the braggadocious type, but if there was ever a moment he might be,

it's probably standing next to two of the other greatest players in the league discussing their best moments. Yeah, he was with Jamar Chase and Saquan Barkley, I believe. I thought that there was at least a slight chance, he said, with a broken rib, to put a little more emphasis on that moment. And if so, it would make the discussion of how the team handled his injury a moot point. My second thought, and this one is on the more cynical conspiratorial side, is that the... Oh, really?

You mean the first one wasn't cynical? Go ahead. By the way, I think there is a decent possibility he was hyperbolic in that statement. I do. That's ridiculous. He said, this is more cynical and conspiratorial. Is that the matchup with the Bears was highly anticipated as a primetime showdown. It was actually a late afternoon game.

Between the first two picks of the draft with both teams playing well at the time. not saying anything too nefarious took place, but it was in everyone's best interest, the team, the league, the network, and Jaden himself to a degree for Jaden to play. That along with the rib can't get more injured theory may have contributed to the decision for him to play assuming the rib was actually broken.

Thanks for the time. The podcast is a daily listen for me down here in the scorching, soggy hellscape of Florida. I love when you and Tommy get going with some quality old man talk. You're like the jovial uncle and grandfather I never had. I think I'm the uncle. And I mean that in the best possible way. Yeah, I actually think that there's a chance that it was hyperbolic.

I think there's... Okay, Kevin, how ridiculous is this? Would you do that? No, I think... Look, I think there's a chance that the rib was really, really sore and maybe even, you know, I don't know. the bottom line. There's no chance, in my

opinion, that they put them out there with a broken rib. I just can't believe that you would do that in his seventh game. I know that, but would you make something up in one of your

greatest mom? I mean, that would never occur to me to do something like that. Hyperbole? Oh my God, we live in a hyperbolic environment. literally making something up. Don't put a different word on it. Maybe they told him,

maybe they told him, look, it's not broken, but it's sort of whatever, and he remembered it a certain way, who knows? Oh, this is ridiculous. This guy, he's been out in the Florida of his son too long. I don't, I actually don't think that's like an intentional lie. It was, did you watch it? Did you see

the way it was just an offhanded comment, like almost borderline, like, you know, and I did it with a broken rib. I think there's a chance. Yes. This guy never gives away anything. I think there's a chance. He doesn't give away anything.

Right. So why all of a sudden is he going to start making something up? That's what it is. As far as the other nefarious, conspiratorial, I just don't think that, I mean, I guess the Chicago game leading into it

was kind of a big game because it was the top two quarterbacks. But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't Manning versus Brady. I mean, it was, you know, it was Jaden's eighth game. They were five and two going into that game. I have a hard time believing. I really do that they, again, maybe I don't know enough about the rib situation and they shot it up and it was a matter of pain tolerance. And you hear that a lot with rib injuries.

You know, it's a matter of what can you stand pain-wise. I just can't imagine your superstar quarterback, and you're going to put him out there, and even if there's the tiniest of risk in week eight. The bottom line is he wasn't great that day. He certainly didn't have one of his better days. You know, his completion percentage was one of the worst of the season for him. You know, his overall game was he didn't. He ran.

He ran a lot, but not as much on designed and option stuff. That came starting the next week. And that's when I said, when they pulled them off the injury report, and they had him running a ton of, you know, options, if he were really hurt, that would have been irresponsible, in my opinion. Well, you just don't want to live with that possibility. I'd rather not, but it's, but I can live with it. I can live with it.

If they really are that, you know, wild and risk-taking, then that's who they are. You know, I'd love to, I'd love to, you know what, the next time, I'm going to have Dan Quinn on the show before this season starts. I'm going to ask him about the Chicago game. I'm going to ask him about what that injury was and whether or not they took risk putting them out there. I think that would be a fair question, don't you?

Yeah, I do, but I think it will take about a five-minute answer for him to talk around giving you the answer. Okay, well, I'll stick with it if he's talking around it. Okay. Listen, as far as the other thing, as far as manipulating the game, listen to the first half of this podcast and tell me the NFL has to manipulate a rookie matchup, the fifth or six-week into the season. Yeah, they don't need to do that. That is true.

No. All right. I am off tomorrow. No podcast tomorrow. I will be back Monday with a show and then a post-game show following the game against the Bengals on Monday night. All right, Tommy, enjoy the rest of your trip. I've got one last thing. Quickly.

So, quick. Tommy Purify made an appearance last night here in Rojobes Beach on the stage at Rigby's Bar and Grill. Oh, boy. It was an unscheduled appearance, but family demanded it, so I responded. Okay. Well, if you want to send me, you know, the highlights. There's no audio or video. Oh, thanks.

It was just for my fans. Well, just for your fans. All five, all six of them. Well, good. How did they respond? Oh, very enthusiastic, because I was very good, like always. Yeah. A little bit of hyperbole sneaking into the end of the show there.

All right. Back on Monday, everybody. See you, Tommy. See you, boss.