The Kevin Sheehan Show - Is WFT Back In Business?

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Kevin and Thom today on the trademark denial of Washington Commanders and the trademark approval for Washington Football Team. Was a path created this week for Josh Harris to dump "Commanders" and re-visit "Washington Football Team"? The boys discussed that, Sam Howell, Eric Bieniemy, the NBA Playoffs, Anthony Richardson's start in Indy, and the Wizards' newly hired basketball executive, Michael Winger.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. All right, Tommy is with me today. If you missed Tim Legler and you didn't listen to yesterday's show, I'd urge you to go back and listen to it.

Legler is truly one of my top three to five favorite guests to have on the radio show or the podcast. It really doesn't matter what we're talking about. He's so good. basketball, obviously. But his favorite football team is Washington. So that's actually his passion is he still goes to all the games. He's the one, Tommy, that still goes to all the games.

But he was excellent yesterday in talking about the Denver Nuggets and Nicola Yokic in particular and what we're watching with that particular team and that particular player. and you don't have to be deep into these NBA playoffs to appreciate the conversation and appreciate his description of everything. So that was yesterday's show, and he was great. You know what? I really liked him. You know, what?

You should get Legler to talk about his days in the United States basketball league. What was that? Remember the USBL? No, I don't. Was that the Mnute Bowl? Was that the Mnute Bowl? Yes. Yes, it was.

Yeah. And there was a team in Washington for a couple years. I didn't know that. Yeah. And I don't know what team he played on, the Philly team or something like that. But I bet he's got some good, you know, minor league basketball stories to tell. I think he played overseas. I'm pulling that up right now.

I'm pretty sure he may have started his career playing overseas. Interesting, Tommy. All right. So career history after finishing at LaSalle, the Philadelphia Aces, the Rochester Flyers, those are CBA teams, aren't they? I don't know. Okay, he did play with Limoge in 1992. I believe that's a French team. It is. So he played in France in 1992, then came back and played with. the Philadelphia spirit. Maybe that was the USBL team. And then played with the jazz. He was going back and forth. It looked like between the CBA and the NBA. And then, you know, his longest run was here in D.C. from 95 to 99 when, you know, he won the three-point shooting contest during All-Star weekend back in 1996. Was it? It may have been 95. I forget which All-Stum. our game it was. Good guy and really, really good on ESPN as an NBA analyst. And he was great with us

yesterday. So go back and listen to that. If you haven't rated or reviewed us, really appreciate when you do that. Following us is important as well on Apple and Spotify. I did want to read this email that came in through our website from Sander. Sander wrote, I'm sick and tired of you and many of your D.C. sports media friends. You treat our players and teams unfairly. You're from here. You seem to be proud of being here, but seem to hate the hometown teams. I don't know why I listen.

It's overboard on mean and nasty. I hope you feel the sting of this as much as the players you go after. on a daily basis do. He was writing about Chey Sheung and the conversation about Chase Young on radio yesterday and the conversation that we had, I'm sure, the other day as well. The only reason I know that is he didn't mention Chey Shung,

but the title of the email was Chase Young. I mean, Sander, dude, seriously, man up a little bit. I mean, come on. That's overboard on mean and nasty. I guess we can be mean and nasty. Tommy can definitely be mean and nasty, but I always think you're mean and nasty in a funny way. And it's a big boy town.

We'd like to think of it as a big boy town. Chase Young, are you kidding me? Like, what would you like us to do? Would you like us to sing his praises for continuing to do what they don't want him to do? to continue to do it the way he wants to do it with literally hardly anything accomplished in support of that after his rookie year? No, no.

You're overly sensitive. Way overly sensitive. This goes to the whole issue of, and I get this all the time, is, you know, why don't you why do you cover a team that you hate you know

right you know I mean why if you don't like this team why don't you go find a team you like and cover them right you know the whole idea that I'm part of the team you know

if I write about them and I should go write about the Knicks or the Mets or something like that I get that all the time for me it's she and Get out, get on board or get out or move to Minnesota to cover your girlfriend, Kirk. Do you know how much I got that last summer with the whole Carson Wentz, you know, take?

Yeah, it's, it's not, that's not the job. Like people, we've talked about this so much, and I think 95% of our audience understands this. you know, we do, you know, opinion podcasting, opinion radio. Tom's a columnist, which is essentially the same thing. I mean, we do multiple columns a day on the show, basically. And, you know, people aren't going to agree with everything, but if you're not honest with the way you feel, you don't have a chance of generating an audience.

I mean, I don't mean this in a mean and nasty way, but if you work for the team like Larry Michael did for all those years, or like Julie Donaldson does now, and you do all of the team shows, like if that's what you're looking for, there are places to go to to get that, to get that everything's positive and everybody's doing well, and oh my God, what a trade, what a draft,

What a signing of a coach. There are places where you can get that. But that's not what we do. We have to be honest with our own feelings. And I think also the other part I would just say real quickly to this Sander is the irony is I don't hate the teams. And you're not a listener really. Although people listen all the time and they hear. what they want to hear. We've learned that over the years, for sure. But I'm not a hater of the

hometown teams. I'm a big fan of all of the hometown teams. The only team that I'm not a big fan of in terms of the professional teams is the hockey team. And of course, my passion is waned on the football team, but I'm still, you know, hoping that things work out. And like we've said many times before, professionally it would be much better for us if they were really good. But where was I going with this? Oh, with respect to Chase Young, like, you know, what somebody like this doesn't realize is you can be,

you know, I don't think mean and nasty, I think constructively critical. And then also hope that it works out for him. Like, I hope it works out for him. First of all, we always want to be right. And I was all over them tanking that, game against the Giants in 2019 so that they would remain in the number two position and be able to draft Chase Young. And we always want to be right with our things. And I was adamant.

I was I was yelling that entire down the stretch of the season. You don't want the Giants to end up with the number two pick and get Chase Young and have to face him like you did LT for all of those years. I was a big, big fan of Chase Young. I didn't want Tuatung-Oyloa. I didn't want Justice Herbert. Obviously, I'd fix that now if I could go back and fix that. But beyond that, I mean, I think, like, I want him to succeed. I want whatever's going on with him and the relationship he has with the team to be mended somehow and for him to turn into a really good player to help the team. Like, I don't want him to become a good player somewhere else. I want him to become a good player here. But at the same time, we can't ignore what we've watched on the field, what we've witnessed

off the field. And by the way, for a lot of us in the line of work that we're in, we hear a lot of stuff too. There is clearly a relationship issue that Chase Young has with this franchise, with the coaches. And it is, it may not be broken, but it is bending. severely. And his career, if you don't recognize this, Sander, is hanging by a few limbs at this point, maybe not by a thread, because he's going to get more chances. But whatever the root cause of these issues are between team and player, he is culpable for some of it at the very least. And when you don't show up for OTA days to put your best foot forward, when you know that that franchise wants you there, okay, they can't demand that you be there, but they want

you there. And other players like last year, Terry McLorn and Duran Payne, and this year, Cameron Curl, all contract, you know, related stuff, they all showed up. Cameron Curl said yesterday, I'm here, I'm paraphrasing, I don't have it in front of me, I'm here because I want to be with my teammates. I like being around all the guys. Well, Chase Young clearly doesn't. And of course, I say that with the one caveat. We may learn at some point that Chase Young was dealing with something that was totally reasonable as an explanation for why he wasn't here. But no, in my opinion, in my opinion, he should have been there this week. It's a big deal, and I am critical of his decision not to show up. If he was coming off, you know, a 16-sack year last year and a 15-sac-year

the year before and all pro seasons and the team just as importantly accomplished more than 7 and 10 and 8-8-1, then maybe you can take some of these days off. But anybody that's ever been in a work environment, and I'm not comparing our work environment to, you know, professional sports. but when you know your boss would like you to be there and you haven't accomplished much and you've actually been a bit of a disappointment, some of it not in his control, obviously the injury, eight out of ten of you would be showing up. The other two, I can't help you. It's your prerogative to say voluntary, no thank you.

You know, the funny thing is if we just generated our opinions, based on support of the team, Dan Snyder would own this team for the next 10 to 15 years. Yeah. Well, I don't want to take all the credit for running Dan Snyder. No, no, no. Sports media shouldn't do that because a lot of,

if two-thirds of the fan base left too. Right. But, I mean, if coverage was based solely on support of the team, then Dan Snyder's not going anywhere. Well, and, you know, there's still a toxic workplace, and all of the people that are gone are still there, and, you know, and instead of having this wonderful gift that you gave me, which was, you know, a Dundee Award sitting behind me,

I'd have a huge Washington commander's pennant if they had to change the name. Maybe they wouldn't have had to change the name. Maybe Fred Smith would have been paid on time. Yeah, I feel like we get the, I mean, I'm just reading the end of his email where he said, I hope you feel the sting as much as the players you go after on a daily basis. If you read Tommy's and my notifications on Twitter on a daily basis, you, Sander, you'd cry for us. Yeah, we're used to criticism. it happens every single day.

Anyway, stop breathing so hard into the mic. Back off the mic a little bit. Okay, okay, I just need to move it a little bit. You know my line for criticism from the masses is always from the movie Hoffa? I didn't see that movie. Is that Nicholson? Yeah, and Danny DeVito. It's a pretty good movie. I never saw it, yeah.

accurate, but I liked it. I thought it was pretty good. And there's the one point where everyone is hounding him, Jimmy, and he gets in a car, and he turns to Danny DeVito, who's his like sidekick, and he describes them as ants at a picnic. That's the way I look at my critics. Oh, yeah. Ants at a picnic. Well, I mean, if it really, you know, I don't want to talk about skin things. but the bottom line is if that stuff really bothered people like there are people that get it a times you know a million compared to just you know a columnist and a couple of dope talk show hosts but still like if it really if it really bothered you know people like us we'd be doing something else because it's constant and it's every day now a lot of that

when you really narrow it down, if you were really to sort of do an investigation or an audit of it, it's a lot of the same people every day. I don't know why they spend so much of their time telling me how much they disliked the show. And yet they comment on something every day that they disagree with. But no, most people actually are great. That's the truth of it. By the way, Did I already Because you mentioned a movie Did I already mention on this podcast with you

or did I do it on the radio show that I saw the movie air And did you watch the movie air? Did we talk about it or not? You didn't mention it with me and I have not seen it yet. Oh, you got to see it. I've seen it twice now. It's that good.

I know people who don't know anything about sports who have told me I need to watch it. It's such a great cast, first of all. I mean, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Jason Bateman, Marlon Wayans, Chris Tucker, Viola Davis. It's such a great cast. That dude, Chris Messina. I think we did talk about it now.

Okay. I think we did talk about it a while back. I watched it again the other night. It's so good. It's so good. So well done. you know, they make David Falk out to be one hellacious, you know, prick

and tool. I know. I know. Did you do the, did we do that lunch with a legend together, or did I just do it with Falk? It wasn't with me. I would have remembered. Tommy, that was one of my favorite ones ever. He's a great storyteller.

He really is. And I can't comment on what he's like. I mean, I've heard lots of stories. And, you know, he was occasionally at this station because coach was there and he represented coach. And he's friendly with some friends of mine because he was good friends with the father. So they're, you know, I run into him every once in a while and he's fine. But, you know, he's, I guess people think he's incredibly abrasive. But this did not paint him out to be.

the greatest of people, although, you know, one of those things about, you know, he claims that it was his idea to call the shoe Air Jordan. And Sonny Vicaro, who Matt Damon plays in the movie, claims that it was their shoe, you know, technology developer that he came up with it. And he, even though in the movie, it's sort of described that Sunny Vicarro, actually kind of knew that David Falk came up with the name. But it's a really good movie with an incredible cast, and Ben Affleck directed it. I mean, I think as a director, Ben Affleck's incredible.

But watch it, and then we can talk about it after you've watched it a little bit more. But it is a recommendation. I got a full plate this weekend. I got a wedding, a local wedding I have to go to. You do? My one of my My wife's sister's daughter I guess my niece

Yeah That's one way to describe her To a guy She went to She went to University of Maryland Even though she's from Philly Yep And she met a kid from Rockville

And they're getting married Awesome This weekend So all the care All my wife's in-laws are coming down And she's getting married at the Coma's Inn, you know, just like down the road from us here in Frederick. So I've got a bunch of in-laws coming to town this weekend.

I mean, you are, you're spending a lot of time with the in-laws, and there's a lot more to come this summer. Yes, there is. As you spend your summer in Spain. So we've got to get to this story. Let me, before we get to it, I had Daniel Wallach on the show today. Daniel Wallach is the legal, sports legal analyst for the athletic, and he's got a really good podcast called Conduct Detriman. Yeah, I like him. He's pretty good. He's really good. He's very good on radio. And it was primarily about the whole Brian Davis thing. And I don't know, Tommy, have you been following the whole Brian Davis thing from Daniel Wallach? Because Wallach's had as much on this as anybody else. So I read through his stuff.

I've kind of been semi-fowing it because I know that today there was some kind of hearing or Friday. There's some kind of hearing tomorrow? Yeah, Friday. Tomorrow at 10 a.m., there's a telephone meeting where I guess they're going to determine whether or not Brian Davis's emergency, you know, temporary restraining order motion. Bank of America, I guess, is going to respond to it. Anyway, I'm going to net it out because there is a lot of legal stuff and banking stuff here. The bottom line is that Brian Davis, remember him of the, I'm going to pay $7 billion for the Washington commanders. And I've got, you know, he told the junkies in the radio interview, I've got, you know, white people.

I've got Jewish people and Italians and Sicilians who are my money people. I mean, the whole thing was, like we described at the time, it felt like an S&L skit, listening to that interview. Entertaining, but, you know, he seemed, you know, far from capable of actually giving you any information to believe that he was capable of paying $7 billion for the commanders. But anyway, he tried to deposit a check. that didn't have his name on it, didn't have his LLC Urban Echo's name on it for $5.1 billion into a Bank of America account that he established.

And Bank of America didn't cash the $5.1 billion bank draft because they had questions about it. And Daniel Wallach's done a phenomenal job of, you know, why. there are questions about it. And, you know, he feels pretty confident that, you know, this is going to fall apart for for Brian Davis. But the net of it is, the actual $5.1 billion check comes from this estate of a guy by the name of Severino Garcia-Santa Romana. He's dead.

He no longer is alive. But the best part of this whole story, understanding that it's going nowhere. I mean, actually, Wallach did not speculate, but he intimated that if this money was somehow, this check was illegally, you know, obtained. I mean, Brian Davis may have finally overstepped his, you know, his stories. But the money comes from in a state of this guy. It's a fascinating story. The story really refers to this thing that's got a whole Wikipedia page about it. Yamashita's gold.

Yamashita's gold was gold that was named after a Japanese general in World War II that was buried by imperial Japanese forces in the, caves and tunnels in the Philippines after they stole it. And so this guy, Severino Romana, was a Filipino-American soldier. He was a CIA operative. He witnessed the Japanese forces burying this incredible, you know, gold stash. And then he used, listen to this one, he used, Ferdinand Marcos to represent him after he recovered the gold and deposited it deposited the gold

into Citibank. A young Ferdinand Marcos. Like the story is an incredible story. And I actually started to talk to Daniel Wallach about that part of the story because that's actually the most interesting part. If you completely dismiss Brian Davis and probably what will amount to another one of his scams because he's had many of them throughout his life, even though on the junkies he did say, I've made a lot of mistakes and I've made restitution, yada, yada, yada, but whatever. But how did he come across this Severino guy? How did he get a check for $5.1 billion from the Citibank account with this Severino estate money and have it put to Bank of America to either deposit or not deposit.

Who knows? Maybe he just read the story like Wallach did by Googling it and created the bank draft on his own. Who knows? Maybe it's a DiCaprio check forging thing from that incredible movie. Why am I blocking... Catch me if you can. Yeah, catch me if you can.

I don't know. You know, if the NFL has some issues with the financing of the Josh Harris proposal, imagine what they would have. Oh, my God. If you presented them with this situation. Oh, well, we have to go to the Philippines to interview some people to see the goal for ourselves. You know, I finally said to Wallach, I go, Is it as simple as just saying, why would the league ever consider an offer from Brian Davis?

It's not his money. And he's like, well, yeah, of course. It's not his money. Like, he's trying to deposit it into his account, but the check wasn't made out to him or his LLC. And by the way, apparently the account that he opened up has $0 in it. Anyway, maybe he was good friends with Frankie. abignale, Junior, from way back in the day. That wasn't really what I wanted to get to.

What I wanted to get to was this other story that came out yesterday from this patent attorney in town that wrote about how Washington's trademark application for Washington commanders was denied. You saw this story, right? Oh, yeah. So, basically. you know, the trademark application for Washington commanders was actually denied by the patent and trademark office. And so the team put out a statement, and I understand this to be true, that, you know, this isn't unusual for initial application to be denied.

It's not unusual for this to take that long because, you know, they obviously applied for this. back in February of 22, or I would hope even before that, when they knew that this was going to be the name. But the trademark application was denied, and the team put out, you know, it was denied because there's an existing of a mark on Commanders Classic, which is the title, the trademark title for the Army Air Force football game. And then there's an individual in town that filed his own trademarks for

Washington Space Commanders and Washington Wolf Commanders. Now, everybody seems to believe, you know, patent attorneys, et cetera, trademark attorneys, that Washington can fight through this and eventually get approval for Washington commanders. That they can make the case that Commander's Classic is for a college football game. And the other guy is just squatting, basically, and squatted on a few names when he was guessing what their names were going to be. and they could, you know, pay him or, you know, apparently he already said he'll surrender anything he owns to the team. So, you know, don't get your hopes up that they're going to be denied this trademark and therefore have to change the name based on that. But what to me is more interesting is what your cohort at the Washington Times, Matt Paris found.

Matt, by the way, does a good job of digging some of this stuff up. As this story yesterday was coming out about being denied for the Washington Commander's trademark, again, more likely than not, if they continue to push forward or if the new group that comes in pushes forward, they'll probably get it. But Matt Paris found that two days ago, the team received the registration for the official trademark on Washington football team. So literally two days before, on Tuesday, yesterday was Wednesday. God, it seems like it's the end of the week.

It is the end of the week, but not the very end of the week. Matt dug up that Washington actually officially got their trademark on Washington football team, which tells you two things. One, they never decided to cancel the registration. Two, it takes a while to get these trademarks done, which is true. It takes a while. I mean, don't you watch Shark Tank? It takes a while to get patents.

There's lots of patent pending and trademark pending. But they've got their mark on Washington football team. So this is potentially an opening for Josh Harrison company to come in and say, yeah, you know, it's just this mark for Washington commanders, a little bit more different. difficult. They didn't have the mark. The acquisition didn't include the trademark because it was pending. We've been denied. We could go get it, but it's going to be costly. And we've got this trademark for Washington football team. Let's just go back to that. I don't think that'll happen. I don't know. I would hope that they would consider it seriously. You know what's funny is that I think, I think, based on my impressions, a majority of the fans would be rooting for this to be rejected.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Of course. Yeah. Which is really hilarious. And, you know, they could push through this. This could be typical of, you know, trademark cases. But these guys don't get the benefit of that doubt. They don't get that. You know, because they're such a collection of screw-ups that this was almost predicted. God, you're meaning that.

And they were so arrogant about this. They said, well, the reason why we didn't go with red tails or red wolves or something like that is because we might not have a clear path for trademark. This, we researched. This is the one we checked out. And we'll have a clear pass. Right. Right.

Trademark. Yeah. Tommy, that's, that's like, didn't they say at some point that, you know, we went with this instead of some of the other names because there was no obstacle to getting the mark? Yes. Yes. Yes. So that's why, you know, this is not, nothing's typical with this organization. nothing's typical with the way they do business.

So for another business that might run into a problem like this, and people would say, well, you know, don't get it done. These guys, it's just another day without a zero on the board for accidents at the plant. Yeah, a race four and right zero. Maybe this guy, maybe this individual will just say, no, not giving it back, and it's going to cost you $30 million to get these marks for me. And I'm going to keep fighting this for as long until you decide you're going to bail on this name. He could be the hero for a lot of people. Yeah, I read somewhere on Twitter, and I don't know how accurate it is, that he has said that he would be willing to give up the fight

if the team would make a donation to Native American organizations. Okay. For what it's worth. Yeah, for what it's worth. Look, I mean, as you were talking, they did, the Red Wolves remember and Red Tails and whatever, red hogs, whatever the supposed frontrunners from a fan standpoint were at the time. They basically, you know, in their videos when they were going through the whole, you know, thing with the branding,

talked about at the end when they landed on commanders on that just thrilling, exciting announcement on the Today Show. They, you know, talked about how this didn't have an obstacle to everything they needed and the others did from a trademark standpoint. Well, apparently there were some obstacles because they've been denied and they don't have it yet. But good for them for getting the one for Washington football team. Because, you know, no one would have ever squatted on that name in advance. But I, but I, you know, like right now, if you put out to a vote, hey, there's this issue and we can either fight for commanders or we can just go with Washington football team right now. I think Washington football team would be the preference. I think Washington football team is clunky, and I never did like it, but I like it a lot more than commanders.

And I want Washington to be kind of the central theme of the brand, and I want to go back to the old uniforms, et cetera. And that would excite me if we went back to Washington football team considering what we got. But, you know, I'm with you. And I mean, the Washington football team seemed very awkward and clumsy to me. But of the two options, I think that's a more palatable option for a fan base. And it's different, you know. And everything would be Washington, Washington, Washington. Everything would be like, remember when everybody made fun of Washington football team when it debuted.

You know, you even had announcers on networks calling games. And they would never do this in any situation. Like if it were the, like if it's Dallas Cowboys, it's like first down Dallas or first down cowboys. But to sort of emphasize how stupid they thought Washington football team was, touchdown Washington football team or first down for the Washington football team. And the standings, they would write out Washington football team instead of Washington. you know, when everybody else just had their city, there was actually, you know, in some ways a concerted effort to continue to make fun of the organization

because people really did think that that was dumb. And I did to, I felt the same way at the time, but we knew that it was interim. I wanted FC Washington or Washington FC. That's what I wanted. But Washington football team now in hindsight, compared to, what we have, uh, for me it would satisfy what I'm looking for,

which is Washington, Washington to be the, this, the, the, the central kind of theme of the brand. I mean, if they came up with, you know, hogs or whatever, I guess, but just give us our old colors and uniforms back. I don't know. I feel, I'm done talking about this.

I just thought it was funny that, um, I again, like you said, and I've said, I don't think it's unusual for this process to take this amount of time and for there to be obstacles along the way. But you reminded me that when they pushed commanders and they did not do a very good job of selling us on commanders on 222 or the days that followed, which was part of the problem for them, really, because they didn't seem excited about it. And they weren't prepared for it. But one of the reasons for not

Red Wolves in particular, I remember, was trademark challenges. And they've got a challenge here because they don't have it yet. I know. I know. It's just a washer and football team. We be us. This is what we do. Yeah.

All right. Let's get to some other things right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is presented by My Bookie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. at mybooky.com or mybooky.orgie.ag. And you could secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. Just use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to claim your bonus, whether you're a diehard or a casual fan. Simply put, there's never been a better time to start exploring the world of online sports betting with My Booky. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. The Celtics tonight in Game 5 are eight and a half point favorites. And the news on Game 5 just moments ago I read this, Gabe Vincent, who's played exceptionally well in this series for Miami,

is out of Game 5 because of a sprained ankle. Malcolm Brogden is out as well. But losing Vincent is a big deal. And I don't know. I kind of like Miami tonight plus the points. They eliminated Milwaukee when they were up 3-1 on the road at Milwaukee in overtime and another classic from Jimmy Butler. They won in the Garden.

They've already won two games in Boston. They just have played very well on the road. Would not surprise me tonight, Tommy, if this is one of those Jimmy Butler games, where he goes off for 40 plus and gives the heat a chance to close out Boston in Boston. So I think I would actually lean towards playing, and I haven't even checked the public action.

I'm going to guess that this game is probably split, maybe? I don't know. I'd lean Miami, but I don't know if I'll play it. MyBooky.ag or my bookie.com. Use my promo code. Kevin D.C. So during OTAs this week, there have been other stories. Obviously the injury, the injury as we discussed yesterday to Armani Rogers, that's a big deal.

But, you know, when you get these OTAs, just like you get during training camp, when they're open to the media, man, you get a lot of play by play. And look, there's an audience for it. We talk about this every year. I don't get into the play-by-play of practice, but a lot of people do. And so you got a lot of people on the beat out there. And you said to me before the show, there's a lot of positive things being said about Sam Hal at OTAs. Well, I mean, I read some of the stuff on Twitter, and in particular, your colleague there on Team 980, Chris Russell made it out to OTAs yesterday.

Right. His analysis was that quarterback Sam Howe looks sharp early on in offensive unit drills with ball placement and overall accuracy. Okay. Now, he did point out, working not against air, working against air, but not against defenders. Well, that's good. I think he threw a pick on the first day to Percy Butler in the red zone. you know what's really Chris

yeah go ahead that a few times I saw Hal struggle a bit was when he seemed like he was really focusing or paying attention to his footwork drops and mechanic then his accuracy

dipped a couple of times I love Chris so we're not going to pick apart the analysis because it's probably spot on but let's see what happens actually when the games begin I think what's more interesting about the first couple of days, Tommy, of, you know, beyond the Chase Young and the injury, etc. Is Ron Rivera's presser yesterday and how much of it was about Eric Bienemy.

He had roughly five answers to questions about Eric Biener. And the takeaway, more than anything else, is just how much power. Eric Bienemy has. They've changed everything. They've changed the way they meet, the way they practice, the times, the schedule. Everything's being done the way Eric B. Enemy wants it done. Here's a quote on what it's been like coaching with Eric Bianami and what he's brought to the offense. Ron said, well, it's been exciting. Yesterday was a really good day. You know, E.B. is a high energy, high impact guy. He doesn't hold it in. He doesn't pull any punches. He's very direct with the players, which has been really good.

You guys will see it when you get out there today. You'll get an opportunity to see how things are. One of the things that we talked about was just changing the way we do things. As I told you guys, I gave him the opportunity to script a lot of the things that we're doing. He's handling all of the scheduling. I basically just laid the format out, gave it to him, and he's put it all together. So that's why things are different. And he's talking to the beat reporters who were used to a certain schedule,

the way things would happen and now the schedule's been changed around. Rivera said, that's why we're not out on the field already because these are some of the things that he wanted to change and wanted to work on. Jack is in Jack Del Rio, has been very flexible in working with him as far as those things are concerned, as has Nate Katzer. It's different and it's kind of getting us out of this comfort zone. I know he talked a lot about during his press conference about being uncomfortable. I wanted to give him the opportunity to stick to what I told you guys that he was going to be very involved in a lot of those things. Lots of his answers during that presser on yesterday before they had their OTA day really is about

Eric B. Enemy and how much, you know, Eric B. Enemy is making the call on so many of these things. Look, this isn't different than what I told you when they hired him because I was told by a really good source, that first day or two after he was hired, it's not just an assistant, you know, head coach title for the sake of it being a title. He gets to do whatever he wants. That's the deal. He gets to do whatever he wants with the offense. It's his offense. Now, you know, Ron hasn't been the hands-on coach he was at Carolina anyway. But man, Eric B. Enemy's upcoming season, is about Eric B. Enemy. I mean, he's not going to have anywhere else to turn unless the defense stinks.

But, you know, to say my call on the quarterback, my call on the play calls, I wonder if he'll make the big head coach decisions. You know, are we going to kick the field goal or are we going to go for it? It's possible he will. From what I've read, you know, and for what we saw in the initial press conference and everything that's come up since then, he's really a very forceful personality. Big time.

And was barking on the field to basically, you know, yellow players to pick up the pace, get back in the huddle quicker, things like that, that apparently they had not been doing before. And in the first set of OTAs with a new guy, that's good. you know let's see how that works in a middle of the season if they're three and five yeah i i think this is just who he is i think you know we talked about this when um when they hired him and when there's been conversation about eric bianami over the last couple of years as to why you know he can't get a job a head coaching job or why he was only only um uh one team interesting don't

to one team, and that was Washington. And maybe Kansas City, although, you know, the word is Matt Nagy was going to become the offensive coordinator because Patrick Mahomes wanted that. But it's very possible, like we've talked about before, he's an excellent coach. He is a great teacher, but that his personality is, you know, has a shelf life. And that because he's so demanding and because he's, you know, over the top, perhaps, which, you know, old school, which I think this organization's needed a lot of old school for many years now. Yes.

But that does have a shelf life to it, especially in today's day of players and personalities and, you know, what's acceptable and what isn't. Kansas City pretty successful, though. You know, that's why it's important to have good results early. There's not a lot of patience when you're getting barked at. This was the discussion about Jim Harbaugh when he was in San Francisco. You know, he had success pretty quickly. But, you know, his critics said there's a shelf life to that. And it starts to wear thin after a while.

You know, he knows he hasn't returned back to the NFL since then, even though, I mean, he's got an unbelievable gig in Michigan, but I'm sure he's had offers to go back to the National Football League. But that was the same discussion about Harbaugh, is that, you know, he'll wear himself out. He'll wear out, you, he'll wear out, the message. Right. And that's why, you know, the enemy's got to have success and have success pretty quickly.

When Sam Hal threw the interception to Percy Butler the other day during practice, apparently he didn't chase Butler after he picked it off and Bianami started yelling, you threw it, you go get it. But Hal did take all of the first team reps and seemed to respond. Sam Fortier wrote a lot about Eric Biennamy, too, in his column for yesterday or today. And, you know, Ron Rivera's given Eric Bienemy the offensive keys. You know, I'm not sure that Scott Turner didn't have the ability to kind of do what he wanted because I think Ron also was a little bit less hands-on.

but I think now they're like this is it. I mean, this is his offensive football team, period. And the players that they signed in the offseason, whether it was Nick Gates or Wiley, these are all Be Enemy guys. The decision on Hal, Be Enemey's decision. The eventual decision on Howell or Berset, be enemy's decision. These are all his decisions. Tommy, I will bet anybody any amount of money.

that Ron Rivera is not picking the quarterback, that it is Eric Bienemy. He is going to be able to play the players that gives him and the team the best chance of succeeding on offense. And maybe the best chance for him to succeed because I believe this is a bigger year for Eric Bienemy than it is for Ron Rivera. Because Ron Rivera is not going anywhere. He's either staying here or he's going home. And his career as a coach is going to be over. Bianami's never been a head coach. He wants to be in developing Sam Hal or winning 10 games with Jacoby Brissette and winning a playoff game is going to be huge for him.

Huge. But we will be talking. I know we talked a lot about Scott Turner and we talk a lot about Jack Del Rio and we always talk a lot about the coordinators. But those Thursday get-togethers with the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinators, we're going to be listening to the head coach of the offense. And maybe the head coach, you know, a guy that's got a lot of input into head coach decisions. It's going to be interesting to watch this play out. I'm excited for the season now.

Now I'm getting pumped up for the season. Let's go, let's go, be enemy. Let's do it. Now, I did see this. Are you on the Sam Howe bus, baby? You know, I'm not on the bus, but I'm not on the bus. off at either. I just, I don't know. I'm looking at the bus and I'm going, is it taking me to a nice place or is it taking me to a bad place? I'm not sure yet, and the bus driver's not helping

me figure it out. I'm looking on the front of the bus and I see T2, J8. I don't even know what that means. On the, on ESPN.com yesterday, Seth Walder, you know, the ESPN analytics guy, wrote a story on projecting next year's draft order. I know we did a lot of this right after the draft, but he put this out yesterday. And, you know, he's got Washington selecting at number eight overall. We've seen Washington higher than eight before. And he writes that their chance at the number one pick overall is 4.4 percent, but their chance at a top 10 pick is 47.3 percent. And he writes, why they are here in the spot of being the eighth worst team in the NFL in 2023. He writes, there's a fairly good chance that Sam Hal and or Jacoby Berset

will represent an upgrade at quarterback over what the commanders got from Taylor Heineke and Carson Wentz last season. But this team is still largely an unknown on offense. They were strong defensively a year ago and should be again on paper, though defense is harder to predict from season to season and therefore matters less when looking forward. He's written a lot about how defense is harder to predict season to season, in part because of the things that we've talked about before, you know, who are you playing? Like in 2021, you know, they played as strong of an offensive lineup in opponents and quarterbacks as you'll ever see. Then he writes how they'll outperform this

projection. The offense must become more productive under new coordinator, Eric Bienemey, hired in the offseason to replace Scott Turner. It's not finished in the top half of the NFL in points or yards since 2017 and was never higher than 20th in either category under Turner. The commanders also have to hope Hal or Berset can be effective, but they have talent at receiver and running back, and they have an experienced defense that has been top 10 in both points and yards allowed in two of the past three seasons. Those factors could be enough to finish better than ESPN's football power index is projecting. Yeah, so there you go.

It comes down to Sam Howe, Chicobe, Berset, and Eric Bianamy. That's what this season comes down to, the three of them, or some combination of the three of them. Because I think defensively they're going to be good. I do. Anything else before we get to the Wizards change? No. All right, we'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's where we had a great night on Monday night. Yes, we did. I was still recovering yesterday from Monday night. You know, I walked over 8,000 steps Monday night just inside Shelly's. Just inside Shelly's 8,000 steps? Nah, come on. You had a bunch of steps already accumulated during the course of the day. No, I did not.

No, no, no. I included that. That's what my pedometer said when I got there until when I left. I saw you sitting down a lot at Shelly's, handing out cigars, and I don't know, you were writing a lot the other night. Well, I was up a lot, too, obviously. But I'm fully recovered, and I just want to say one of the great things about Shelly's as we enter this great, you know, the great days of spring is its location in the city. It's at 1331 F Street Northwest.

It's right across the street from the National Press Club. It's convenient to two or three metro stops. The metro center stop is just right down the road. The federal triangle stop is just a couple blocks away, so it's easy access via metro, and it's so close to all the Smithsonian and the museums and all the monuments and things like that. It's just a couple blocks away. So it's a great break if you're in Washington all day, and you're looking for a place to eat lunch while you're visiting all these places.

It's just a great location to be able to get to, to be able to enjoy yourself. And while you're spending a day in D.C., I would put it on my list of places to see because it's easy to get to. Shelly's backroom, 1331, F. Street, Northwest, in the district. Great location in town. By the way, before we get to some other things, I just saw this. Anthony Richardson, the fourth pick in the draft by the Indianapolis Colts. New head coach, Shane Steichen, said today that Richardson's splitting first team reps with Gardner Minshu at Indianapolis Colts OTAs.

But that Richardson made some big plays and has done some next-level stuff. at OTAs. Like if I would that... You could believe that, though, can't you? Well, yeah, I'm a big Anthony Richardson fan, but there are two things here. First of all, number one, it's OTAs. Secondly, if I were the new head coach with a rookie quarterback,

I just would downplay everything. It's just what I've always felt. I mean, we learn from the best in Gibbs. you know, next level stuff is a headline. I'm seeing it everywhere. Richardson, next level stuff. Don't, look, he's a first time head coach. Don't put that out there.

I mean, it just creates the expectations that this guy is going to hit the ground running and he's going to be a franchise quarterback day one. Sneak up on everybody. If you really believe that and you really believe that, And you really believe that this guy is, whoa. You know, like you're all talking amongst yourselves at Colts OTAs, and you're like, this guy's even better than we thought. Holy shit.

We've got it. I mean, this is going to be incredible. You know, most recently for our teams, what, why did we, why did you refer, now you predicted this, but ultimately, why was the New Orleans Saints? 2012 opener referred to as shock and awe. Because we were in shock and we were in awe. Anthony Richardson, if he goes out after being told he's been doing next level stuff all off season and he throws for 320 and three touchdowns, some people will say,

I thought he was supposed to be better than that. You know, that's an excellent example because Mike Shanahan kept things very under wraps that preseason. Completely under wraps. We had no idea. Very close to the best. We had no idea what to expect, really. Nothing. At that point.

You knew nothing. And all of a sudden they're in pistol and they're running the quarterback. And it's like, holy shit. What are we watching here? Yes, that's a good point. I don't know. Shane Steikins, you know, a new coach and, you know, maybe this, man, especially a guy with like Anthony Richardson, who everybody believes, everybody believes, needs a year to sit.

All you heard about Anthony Richardson compared to Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud, even Will Levis during the whole buildup to the draft. If you're going to take Richardson, you need to know he can't play. in his first year. He's got to sit his first year. So you already have the benefit of super low expectations for his first year already. Why inflate them? I mean, if he, imagine how smart and how great Shane Steichen looks if on opening day Anthony Richardson's out there dealing, you know, without anything being talked about in the offseason other than, you know, he's a good kid, He's really athletic. He's coming along.

I mean, this is tough. You know, big transition college to the NFL. A lot to learn. Totally new offense. This is, you know, for anybody in his position. You know, it's a challenge. But, you know, we like the progress he's making, but he's got a long way to go. Those are the things you say in the offseason.

Not he's doing next-level things. He's a rookie owner. I mean, he's a rookie coach. maybe he's talking to his owner. Maybe he's trying to impress the owner. Maybe. Maybe you've got to do that with that crazy owner. Yeah. Okay.

The Wizards hired Michael Winger. Who's Michael Winger? Well, Michael Winger came from the actual Los Angeles Clippers, where he was the head of basketball. operations, along with Lawrence Frank, who is the general manager. He gets the title here in Washington. His exact title is president of monumental basketball. He will oversee the Wizards, the Mystics, and the G-League team, the go-goes. He's 43 years old. He looks like he's 33. And people have raved about him. He came up with Sam Presti in OKC. And he's, and

This is a guy that people say is super smart, great with contracts, great with people. But this is not the general manager hire. This is Ted hiring the equivalent of, and I had Ava Wallace from the Washington Post on the show this morning, and I said, is this job kind of equivalent to the job that Dick Patrick has had with the capitals for all these years? And it is. He's the team president, but they're going to hire a general manager. So that hire is still to come. Now, this guy will be involved in basketball decisions,

including hiring the general manager and deciding whether or not Wes Unsell Jr. is the right guy. But I can't tell you much more than what you've read and what I've read about him because when I heard his name last night, actually, it was the first time that I had heard it. And at first I'm like, he's the GM, what happened to trade him? Langdon. What happened to Yusuri? What happened to some of these other guys that, but that's not what he's hired to do. He's hired

to be, and by the way, here's the one take I have, and then I want to hear what yours is. This is a big step for Ted. Because first of all, he is basically turning over the basketball operation to somebody

to make all of the basketball decisions on the basketball people. And number two, he's paying two people for something that he could have gotten away with just paying one. So I don't know if it's a change in philosophy like, you know, I start putting more into this thing. I have to get somebody who really ends up making all of the decisions on the basketball side. But he's definitely made a commitment to spending more money on executives on the basketball side. What do you think?

Well, I mean, it seems to be a pretty good hire. Okay. From what I get to determine, this guy, he's not a basketball player. He's a lawyer. Yeah. Okay. And what's interesting is he has a strong connection to the Baltimore agent, Ron Shapiro, who, you know, we know represented Cal Ripkin for many years.

He worked as an apprentice for Shapiro. And he helped him research his book, the book that Ron wrote, Bowie's Tyrant and Impossible People. Tell everybody who Michael Shapiro is in more detail. Well, he's a very famous agent at a Baltimore. He represented Cal Ripkin, among many other people. And he's known as Agent Nice, the nice guy. He's the opposite of Boris.

He's the guy that usually gets things done where everybody walks away pretty much happy. And, you know, he's a very popular figure for a sports agent. And this guy, Winger, got into the basketball operations with the Cleveland Cavaliers working for Danny Ferry, who was the general manager in Cleveland at the time. So it is a very interesting hire. I'm really intrigued by his connection to Ron Shapiro. And I'm impressed with that. I mean, that means he learned from a guy who is very smart and measured in his decision-making.

We'll see how much total freedom he has. You know, I mean, Ted has pretty much, I think, called the shots in, on both sides of his, you know, in all the sports, in the big shots. So I'm kind of skeptical that Ted's going to turn over the total range to this guy. And you're right, this guy's got to hire a general manager. So will the general manager pick the, will, who will have the guts to pick the new coach? And fired West on Sell Jr. They're not going to do that at this point, I don't think.

Well, then this is an exercise in futility. Another wasted year. Another wasted year. Well, the bigger call here is what's the plan? Are you going to try to build this thing from scratch, meaning you've got to figure out how to move on from Bradley Beale in his contract? Bradley Beale has a no trade clause. But, you know, is it possible that you can,

could work with Bradley to say, we are going to do a rebuild here. You don't want to be a part of a rebuild. Give us your list, your short list of teams that you'd like to be dealt to. And you start accumulating, you know, draft choices. And you've got a big decision on Kuzma. You've got a decision potentially on Porzingus. He's got a player option for $30-something million. But it's really like, you know, Ted hasn't, Ted's wanted to play in the, um, in the middle. you know, let's get into the play-in round. I mean, it's almost as if the playing-in round was developed for Ted Leonsis. So that it's more of a chance for the Wizards to, you know, have a postseason game maybe at home.

But he's wanted to make the playoffs. Look, the hockey thing, they drafted Alexander Ovechkin. And when they signed him to that, you know, massive 13-year, whatever, $100-something million deal, you know, Hockey is completely different than basketball. I mean, by the way, last night, Florida, the 8th seed, the de facto 8 seed, eighth worst record. Worst record in hockey of the playoff teams. They're going to the Stanley Cup finals with, by the way, a goal that came with 4.9

seconds left in regulation. But with hockey, you know, Ted always said, we just want to be in the playoffs every year. And if we're in the playoffs every year, we'll have a chance to break through on a couple of occasions. And they broke through on one. That's for sure, not on any of the others. And he's almost taken that same mindset to basketball, except, you know, he didn't have Alex Ovechkin to guarantee the playoffs every year. But his goal was, we just want to get to the playoffs, and then we'll take our swing at it and we'll be relevant. But in basketball, it's even more

important because of the salaries and the cost structure, you need these home playoff games to be profitable. They're important to the business. And so that was more important to him. I'm not suggesting, and I think it's disingenuous to suggest that he didn't want to win a championship, but he didn't want to bottom out to win a championship. That's for sure. So if Michael Winger decides we need to bottom out if we're ever going to have a chance to win a championship, I'm assuming that Ted is going to be on board with that now. Because they're stuck not even in the middle anymore, although I thought last year's team, talent-wise, should have been in the middle.

But it wasn't. Didn't make the postseason. But you can't be a contending team paying Bradley Beal 50 plus million dollars a year, a top four to five deal in the league. So that's the first big thing. Wes Sunsill Jr. is not the top priority. The priority is, can you move on from Beal and his contract? Yes. But, I mean, it just seems like I know what you're saying makes sense,

but there should always be a sense of urgency with this team because people have waited too long. The sense of urgency should be about the right way to create an opportunity to be a contender three, four, five, six years down there. the road. That's what they should be thinking about because they can't contend and they can't even be a consistent playoff team or play in round team with what they have now and the way they're doing it. So they've got to change and I guess maybe this was a long way for me to come to maybe Ted realizes that he's going to have to choose another way to be a playoff.

team consistently, but more importantly, give you a chance to contend. And maybe this guy will be that guy. By the way, in reading through his Wikipedia page, because I had not done that until you mentioned the Shapiro and the Baltimore thing, he went to the, he went to Miami University, as in Miami of Ohio, in beautiful Oxford, Ohio, one of the real incredible kind of quintessential Americana college towns. if for those of you have been there, you know what it looks like. But when he was a law student at the University of Toledo, he was a visiting student at the University of Maryland's law school during his final year of law school.

And that's when he served as the apprentice to Ron Shapiro. So he's familiar with the area. He's very familiar with the area. And, you know, the other thing, too, with the, with the Clippers, he's the one that signed Kauai Leonard and traded for Paul George, you know, along with Lawrence Frank, who is really the basketball guy with the Clippers, but, you know, in dealing with Kauai Leonard and Paul George, and Kauai Leonard's my favorite player in the league, but I understand that he's not the easiest. He's a different guy. You know,

he's completely different than most athletes. And he can be difficult, but, you know, It's certainly not about him necessarily, but he can be difficult. But this guy's dealt with stars. And this team's going to need some stars. They haven't had any in a long, long time. Because Bradley B.L. All Due Respect is a really good scorer and a really good player. He's not a star. He's not an elite player.

I have no idea how it works out. Do you think this guy could hire Danny Ferry to be the GM? What's Danny Ferry doing these days? last thing he was in the NBA he was the interim general man he was this I think he was interim general manager in New Orleans in 2019 yeah that's exactly what it was I don't know I mean this would be the franchise where his father Bob Ferry was the general manager during the last era in which they were they were legitimate contenders and won a title Bob Ferry was an excellent GM

Excellent GM Didn't he just He just passed away recently right Wasn't it in like the last year Didn't we talk about his passing Did I kill him off too early Should I look that up I was at

I was at Doc's event last night The Pro View event So much fun Met so many nice people there And I mean you know Doc and Bird do such a phenomenal event with their Pro View event.

I love going the Docks event. Yep. Yeah, it was a great night. It's funny, I ran into a couple, and I recognized them immediately, and they came up to me, and their son played football with my son when they were kids. Their son, Owen,

is an undrafted free agent with the Baltimore Ravens this year. Owen Wright, running back at a Monmouth. He had gone to William and Mary before, and in his COVID year, he played at Monmouth last year. That's D1, college football actually. And it's in that CAA league. And he's an undrafted free agent, so I've got somebody to root for over the summer that's not on Washington's team. But his mother is Brigg Owens' daughter, which I did not know until last night. but I, you know, would run into them all the time at, you know, various, you know, games and stuff,

and their son went to Georgetown prep. He was in between my two sons there, but my youngest son knows Owen, and Owen knows my youngest son. But it was a nice night. I mean, Doc does such a great job with that. And so does Bird. So does Bird, in case he's listening. He does a great job with that night, too. So congratulations on another successful. successful ProVue Night. By the way, Bob Ferry did pass away in 2021. Yes, he did. So it wasn't super recently, but it was, well, it was a year and a half ago.

Year and a half ago. 84 years old. And he was a hell of a general manager for this franchise. The best general manager this franchise has ever had, clearly. Yes, I say that's easy, yes. Two-time NBA executive of the year in 1979 and in 1982. You know, in 1982, that's interesting because people, when they think about the bullets, they think, well, it ended in 1979 when they won the title in 1979.

But after Dick Mata moved on, and Dick Mata was the coach during the championship years in 78 and the title that they lost in 79. Now, he was not the coach in 1975 when they went to the finals and lost to the Warriors. Casey Jones was the coach that particular year. But when Dick Mata moved on, the higher was Gene Shoe. Tommy, Gene Shoe, he would coach the Baltimore Bullets. And, you know, there was that, it was like retread. It was Gene Shue, Kevin Lockery, Jim Lineham, Like, you know, the bullets were always into hiring these guys.

But Gene Shue's team in 1982 completely overperformed. It was not a team that was supposed to do much. They went 43 and 39. Elvin Hayes wasn't on the team anymore. Wes Unseld wasn't on the team anymore. Bobby Dandrich wasn't on the team anymore. They had on that team Greg Ballard, who was a rookie when they won the title in 78. They had Kevin Grevy would have been on that team.

They had this guy Don Collins, who was a shooting guard, and they had the Beef Brothers, Ruland and Mahorn. And they won a playoff series, that mini-series that the NBA used to have over, I believe it was the New Jersey Nets. I'm looking it up right now. I'm almost positive it was the New Jersey Nets that they beat in the postseason. Yep, they beat them in two games. And then they had a five-game series against the defending champion Boston Celtics.

This was the third year of Larry Bird. They were the defending champions from the year before, and the bullets played them in a five-game series. They lost four games to one. But the last two games were both in overtime and double overtime. So looking up Bob Ferry, executive of the year in 82, that team was not supposed to be good at all. And that team won a playoff series.

And even though they lost to the Celtics in the conference semifinals in five games, they battled the Celtics. God, you know, I'm looking up the roster right now. Spencer Haywood was on that team. Spencer Haywood was on that team. And Frank Johnson was the point guard. He was a rookie from Wake Force. He hit a three in game two in the garden at the buzzer.

I mean, this was a three-pointer. Back when three-pointers weren't a big deal, He hit a three at the buzzer in game two to steal one in Boston. And then they ended up losing the rest of the games in the series, but they were all super tight games. John Lucas was on that team. But, you know, that started a run of... And Jim Jones.

Jim Jones was on that team. Jones was on that team. But that started a run of Mahorn and Rulin playing together and leading the franchise to, you know, along with Gus Williams and Dan Roundfield, they traded for Gus Williams. Gus Williams beat him in 79 with the Supersonics. The back court was Gus Williams and Dennis Johnson in Seattle for Lenny Wilkins, who was the coach, when they won the title in 79 against the bullets.

But they went to the playoffs. I'm looking at it right now. So in 83, they didn't go to the playoffs. They were 42 and 40, but didn't go to the playoffs. And then they went to the playoffs, five straight ears with Gene Shoe and Kevin Lockery, and those were the Mahorn ruling years. And those two really were good together, and Frank Johnson and Jeff Malone, pretty good backcourt.

You know, Malone in particular really turned into one of the better two guards the franchise has ever had. And they were decent teams. They were not contenders in the East, because it was always the 76ers, the Celtics, and the Bucks were really good during that stretch, too, with Sydney. Moncrief and Marcus Johnson. But then came the true lean years. You know, that's when, you know, you got into the era of Wes Unseld being the head coach. And man, they were horrible. For a long period of time, they were horrible. They went to the playoffs that one year in 97 with Chris Weber

and Juan Howard and Rod Strickland. You know, the team that Jordan dubbed, this is going to be the next big thing, the bullets, that team. By the way, Legler was on that team, right? I think he was. I think Legler was on that team. But they lost the Bulls in three straight games, but they were three super competitive games.

Yeah, Legler was on that team. Howard, Weber, Strickland, Cheney, Calvert Cheney, and Miroson. They had Tracy Murray who could really shoot Chris Whitney, Harvey Grant, and Legler coming off the bench. And that was it. That was the one playoff year, Tommy, between 1988 and 2004. They had one playoff season. That was it.

Eight teams make the playoffs, and they made it once. And then came, of course, that memorable Gilbert Arenas, Karan Butler, Antoine, Amoson era. They were to the playoffs four times and won one series with Eddie Jordan. And then Randy Whitman really got the most out of anything this organization's gotten by taking two straight teams to the conference semifinals, winning first round series both years. And then Scott Brooks won a first round series as well and almost beat the Celtics. So there you go.

All right. What else? Do we have anything else today? going down bullets of memory. I think myself, I think everybody who's listening today was very impressed with your 10 seconds of NHL playoff analysis. You think so? I think so.

I think you're going to win a lot of new listeners with that one. Well, I mean, don't ever say we don't talk about it. All right, anything else? Nothing else, boss. Me neither. I'll be back tomorrow.