The Kevin Sheehan Show - It's Westbrook's Wizards

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the Wizards' 154-141 win over Indiana last night and the continued impact that Russell Westbrook is having on his new team. They talked more NFL Draft, Aaron Rodgers, and why various updated "NFL Power Rankings" have Washington ranked so low. They finished up the show discussing Tom Wilson's punishment for last night's fight. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Coolie planning to be with us tomorrow. All right. So he is not feeling great.

I talked to him last night. But he's planning on being on the show tomorrow to give us his draft. Recap. Tommy is with me. Tommy just told me that I follow too many people on Twitter. On Twitter. That was a burp, by the way. Um, 420 people I follow.

That's too many. I wouldn't know. That's too many. Really? You can cut that almost in half. I followed 300. And that's too many. Um,

and some of them I followed just had a courtesy. You know, but you follow too many people. Like me? No, not you. Out of courtesy, I followed Kevin. Um, it would really suck if he found out that I didn't follow him. Um, I'm just looking at who I follow. you know what happens this is what I do

when I have a guest on and I'm not following that person I end up following that person sometimes I probably should have been following that person to begin with and then other times I think I do it just out of some courtesy it shouldn't be

I mean I do to look I follow some people because they're extremely loyal followers. Right. You know, I do that too. Okay. I mean, extremely loyal. So, I mean, it's a courtesy follow sometimes. I think I have some of those people, too.

I'm looking through, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I swear to God, I guess I do know who I follow because those people obviously, you know, end up in my, you know, when I log on to Twitter, they're there. I mean, it's whatever they're tweeting. Those are the people that I follow, though. You know, I'm not getting, I get a lot of retweets of other people, but I have to be following those people to get the retweets. The interesting thing is I'm going through my list.

I have so many weather people that I follow. Oh, my God. It's right. You should go through your follow list sometimes. I know there's a moment once in a while, given you're so busy and consumed with your life that you have nothing to do. And I'll bet you'll find you'll find. 20 or 30 at least

who haven't been on Twitter in years and you're still following them. Right. So you need to read that out because you need to read that out because you're missing key information like what I provided to the Twitter world last week.

Oh, you know what I just noticed as I'm going through? I haven't done this in a while. There are people that I'm following who are no longer with us. So I should probably but then doesn't it feel awful? Maybe that was an extreme example of no longer on Twitter.

But isn't that really awful to then not follow that person that you were following that, you know, is... I think that's a, I think it's a Facebook thing is more sensitive than being a Twitter thing. Okay. I mean, I'm just trying to... Oh, my God.

You know, you're a hundred... You are... You're not right that often. You are right about this. There are things on here. I don't even know. I don't even know who these people are. I'm being serious.

Some of these people I'm going through, I don't even, like, why am I, well, I do know. Why am I following Niles Paul? He doesn't even play football anymore. So I just unfollowed him. Okay. You're not going to go through all your list now, are you? I'm not. I mean, Nick Sundberg, I follow.

He's not on the team anymore. He's not on the team anymore. anymore. Yeah, there are a lot of, you know, there are a lot of players that aren't even... I don't follow many players. I don't follow many players, but the players that I follow there are a lot that I'm noticing are players that I followed early on. Yeah.

Because you'll miss information like what I provided last week. This is what started the conversation because people are getting... Yes. In late, Tommy said, well, did you see what I tweeted out last week about RFK and a visit by a bunch of former players before our... Is RFK going down? Well, eventually it's going down. I don't know if the date's been set,

but obviously there's a, I mean, this was a visit. I mean, they wanted to give the Washington football alumni a chance to go back to RFK to say goodbye to the stadium. And this was supposed to be done last year because of COVID. It didn't happen. So now it's supposedly taking place tomorrow. I don't know if that indicates that the date of it being torn down is coming upon us soon or why. The only information I had was the alumni were invited back to the stadium for some kind of ceremony to say goodbye.

And I think a lot of them were going. And that's what you tweeted out that I didn't see because I'm following far too many people. But I am going to just point this out. I am looking, I just scrolled back, and I'm assuming this is in the order in which I started to follow people. That's what I'm guessing. It looks like it is from the most recent follows to the longest, you know, ago follows. According to this, the first person that I followed was Chris Russell, who would have been our beat reporter at the station in whatever year I joined Twitter.

I have no idea what year I joined Twitter. The second person or thing that I followed was extremes skins. Do you remember that they had some sort of, and you know who used to always be on that message board? Because Scott Lynn and others would point it out, you and me were always on there. Like we were threads about our show. So I followed them. The third person I followed Tom Laverro. Really?

And then I followed the Team 980, Roger Goodell, John Kime, Dan Helly, Alex Ovechkin, Adam Schaefter, J.I. Hallsell, you know, and the list goes on. Are you reading from the bottom of your list to the top? Yes. Okay. Yeah, because what it does look like is at the very top of the list are the most recent ads of follows. So I just kept scrolling. Like the most recent ad for me is Scott Turner. I started following him.

I don't know when that was. It must have been in the last couple of weeks because I am following Trevor Sykama who I had on the show and Kurt Badenhausen who I had on the show. I think what happens is that I'll have a guest on the show. and I'll say, you know, you can follow Kurt Badenhausen who writes for Sportico, you know, at K. Badenhausen on Twitter. And I kind of feel like, well, if I'm telling other people that they should follow them, then maybe I should follow them. So I do that. But, God, I have. I don't know if my list is like that because I'm going through the first 20 or 30.

Yeah. And you're not showing up anywhere. from way, well, that's probably because I wasn't on Twitter. Oh, maybe. I would bet because I remember you were the one that talked me into getting on Twitter because you were on it well before I was. Yeah. You were the one.

This was, you know, we were doing the show together. I'm going to guess that I've been on Twitter since at least 2012. Doesn't it say somewhere how long you've been on Twitter? Yeah, it does say somewhere, but I don't know where. Here it is. It's right in your press. I joined in June of 2009. When did you join? It's in your profile. When did you join Twitter? August of 2009, you joined before May.

That's weird because I recall you were the one that talked to me into it. That is weird. It says that you joined, did you open up a first account and then a second? Maybe I did. I don't know. Because you're probably, you know. But weed out your following. It's good business. Oh, my God. How did I just go from 402 to 416?

I just deleted a bunch of people. Whatever. Okay. Enough of that. Today we are definitely on the show. Sorry for those of you that don't care. But this is becoming a story now in our fairs. Yes, it is.

And that is Russell Westbrook and the Washington Wizards. And I'm just going to tell you that during the game last night before we get to that. We're going to talk about Westbrook. We're going to talk about the Tom Wilson fight and what's coming next for him. We're going to get Tommy's thoughts on the draft. I had a couple of follow-up thoughts on the draft and more. By the way, Joe Thysman was on with me on the radio show this morning. You can listen to that at the team 980 or on.

the Odyssey app. Don't forget. Joe liked their draft, right? Of course he did. But, you know, we talked about so many other things. The conversations with Joe now I actually really enjoy. Not that I didn't before, but sometimes, you know, Joe was just super positive. Recently, remember we had him on?

I had him on and he was, you know, at the end of last year before they hired Rivera or, you know, he got as negative as I've ever heard Joe on the team and the organization and the whole thing. Anyway, subscribe, rate, and review on this podcast. Subscribing costs you nothing. Rate us takes you 10 seconds or five seconds. And if you're right, you know, a sentence or two in a review and a nice review, especially on Apple podcasts, that really helps us. The Odyssey app to download any of the radio shows that I do, and again, I had Thaisman on the show today.

But we're definitely going to talk about Westbrook and the Wizards here to start. You know, I tweeted out something at halftime last night. I tweeted out, is it nuts to think that Westbrook is playing as well as he has at any point during his Hall of Fame career? Tommy knows this. I've been a Russell Westbrook fan, a massive fan for a long period of time. Even when he was failing year and year out of the playoffs, I always tried to talk myself into he's going to win a championship one of these days. And I was wrong. I was dead wrong and you and others were right, but I just loved him as a player.

I loved his competitive level. I don't think there's another player in the last 10, 12 years that tries harder in sports, and I always thought he was special. Now, for those of you that reminded me that earlier this year, I was off the Westbrook train. I was. He was hurt clearly. He wasn't playing well. He didn't play well in the bubble last year.

He didn't really play well in his final year in OKC. and it looked like they were getting a compromised in a, you know, backside of his career, Westbrook. It looked at it. Apparently, he had torn his quad. That's what Chase Hughes told me this morning. And didn't really tell anybody, or at least a team didn't really tell anybody. Right. Anyway, I tweeted that out, and a lot of people responded.

Several OKC fans responded, you know, it's close, but, you know, you didn't see him like we did. And I said, well, you know, personally, I did. I watched a lot of OKC. I was always rooting for them, you know, because I loved him as a player. And my favorite, though, response to that tweet was from this woman, Kathleen, who wrote, You know what's more amazing that no one, no one literally gives a shit. Exclamation point. And I understand where the Wizards, you know, sort of rank in this, you know, in this town,

in this sports town. I do. You know, right now they are dead last among the four professional teams. Now, I don't know where they were a couple of years ago when John and Brad had them, you know, close and back-to-back years to the Eastern Conference Championship series.

You know, I know what their ratings were on television and now that's becoming it's still important. To me, it's still the one sort of metric or measurement thing that we have, but we also know that people consume in so many different ways. You know, my sons, you know, they don't even get cable anymore, you know.

They figure out ways to watch shit without buying cable, and there's a lot of YouTube. Everybody knows the changing viewing habits and vehicles. But, you know, I know where the Wizards were in that game seven against Boston and in that series. They outrated the caps. They outrated most of the World Series games for the, most of the playoff games to date at that point for the Nats. But I would say to you that the order has been, despite the loss of a significant part of the fan base, Washington, the Washington's football team, professional football team is still number one in this town. And let me just point out in part is because there's many more NFL fans. Well, yes, and you could say that about a lot of NFL cities, but it's also, it's not really close.

like the volume of people interested in NFL and Washington football content, you know, far exceeds whatever the number two is. Now, it's my belief right now that the number two is probably the Nats. They're the most recent champion with the World Series, and I think more people are into baseball and enjoy baseball. And by the way, think they understand baseball more than hockey. That would be my guess. The Caps would be third.

and right now the Wizards are fourth. Do you disagree with that or not? No, I agree with all that. And look, you know me, I mean, I wouldn't waste my time if I had one channel on my TV to watch the Wizards except now. Right. Or even the NBA. You don't even like the NBA. But now, this is something special.

I mean, Russell Westbrook, and I have a lot of complicated thoughts about him, and where he is right now. But he's doing stuff that hasn't been done before by somebody in his position. And it's, they have become, I think, must watch because of, of what a force of nature he's become and the impact he's had. And you can't, you can't take your eyes off him, even when he's screwing up. You know, so I want to get to this in more detail. I just, you agree with me on the lineup. What I would say, though, and what I wanted to add to that is what I've added to that many times in the past.

And that is, if this team ever became like a legitimate championship contending team with a superstar, like a true superstar, I think it could be the number two in this town. And you and I used to debate this all the time. You understand how important basketball is to this city, you know, in so many different ways. college basketball and even high school basketball in many ways. Certainly college basketball has always been much more popular in terms of the number of people interested in it than the Wizards have been, but that's because we've had championship, national championship teams in Georgetown and Maryland, and the Wizards have sucked for so long. High school basketball is very significant in this area.

You could certainly argue that D.C. is one of the top three high school hotbeds in the country. and if you combine Baltimore and Washington, it's probably number one, the combination of it. And I know, because I've been a part of the basketball community for so long, I know how important it is to so many people. Anyway, with that said, they're not there yet, okay? You have to, this is a postseason sport like hockey is. You have to do it in the postseason. You've got to do it when the most eyeballs, potential eyeballs, are watching. And then, you know, even the playoffs aren't good enough.

You've got to advance deep into the playoffs. You've got to play the sports biggest games on the biggest stage, which this franchise hasn't done literally in 43 years. The game seven against Boston in 2017 was the closest to like a spotlight moment for the franchise since 1979. So because they were one game away from the Eastern Conference finals. You're down to the final eight teams, and they're playing a game seven to advance to the final four, essentially. That was the moment, and they played very well in that game, and it was a big moment, and it did a massive rating locally on television. Now, to Westbrook. Tommy, first of all, this team is one of the most entertaining teams in the NBA right now to watch.

you know, and without Westbrook and Beale even entering the conversation, their pace of play, the way the ball moves offensively, the number of players that can score, you know, it's probably the same thing that people said about the Denver Nuggets in the 80s. You know, the Doug Moe teams with Kiki Vandeway and Fat Lever and Alex English, you know, the teams that would score 150 in night. You know, some of those teams. Right now, they are so much fun.

and entertaining to watch before we even get to Westbrook and Beal and the players individually. I mean, they can really run. This is a team that's averaging the most possessions of any team in the NBA. Their pace of play is way up there. And they just, very little time passes between a rebound, a made bucket on the other end, and their next shot. It is fun to want. That was indicative last night in particular because Indiana

seemingly gave up transition defense against them. Yeah, but what's amazing is Indiana shot 50% from the floor and the Wizards were still running. That's the thing. I mean, they're taking the ball out of the net and they get it into number four's hands and it's a self-generated

Westbrook fast break. I mean, you, Tommy, you're right. You can certainly do a better job of getting back on defense. But he's such a force going end to end. It's just amazing. You know, it's funny as I watch him sometimes. There are a lot of similarities in the way that John Wall played.

John Wall's not in Russell Westbrook's class. But when John Wall was at his best and when that team was at his best and I used to say it all the time, I want him to run more. I don't want him to walk it up. And John was not as aggressive. but when he was in that mood, the same kind of shit happened. He made stuff happen. He found people.

He ended up with lots of assists. But Russell Westbrook is an unbelievable force of nature. He is, first of all, immediately when the ball gets into his hands after a made shot, missed shot, or a turnover, the eyes and the head immediately get up and they look down floor. Russell Westbrook is what every kid is taught at a young age. You get that ball on the defensive end, and the first look is up the court.

You've got to get your head up. You've got to look to see what's ahead of you. Because that is more often than not your easiest opportunity to score. Nobody understands that in the game right now more than Russell Westbrook. The pass he had to Beale at the end of the first half, towards the end of the first half, was a length of the court pass that hit Beale in stride for a layup that gave him 69. points, I think, in the moment. And there were still four minutes left, and I said, they're going to

score 80 in this half. They're going to score 80. They scored 82 in the first half last night. It was the most points since 1970 for this franchise. They ended up beating Indiana 154 to 141. Russell Westbrook in the game last night tied the franchise mark with Kevin Porter. I think I mentioned his name on the podcast the other day because there was a There was a Kevin Porter, the Kevin Porter that plays for, who does he play for? Jesus Christ in the West. He had 50 points the other night, the former USC player. And I said he's not related to the Kevin Porter that some of you of a certain age,

you know, the Kevin Porter that played point guard for the bullets in the 70s. Kevin Porter owned the individual assist record. He had 24 in a game. And Westbrook tied that. He had 24 assists last night. He had 21 rebounds last night. That's unbelievable. He's the point guard, and he had 14 points in the game last night.

The team set a franchise record for 50 assists in the game on 63 made shots. That's unfucking believable. The percentage of made shots that were assisted, 50 out of 63, 50 assists in a game, 50 assists in a game. 50. That's nine more than the highest this year in the league. I mean, and by the way, if you watch this game, you know that a lot of the missed shots were great Westbrook passes that just weren't finished at the rim. I think Hachamura missed an Aliup dunk that was right on the money. So did Chad Hutchinson. I think he missed an OLLiop Dunk on a breakaway Chandler Hutchinson, who got time last night.

There's so many reasons why I think he is playing well in the team is right now. What are yours? Well, I think. Well, again, I mean, you could argue we're seeing the best of Russell Westbrook is because there's nobody to take away the best of. the best of Russell Westbrook. There's no Kevin Durant. There's no James Harden.

There's one alpha dog. Bradley Beale is a great player, a great scorer. But he's not an alpha. Not like Westbrook is. Arguably Durant saw himself that way on the team. Some people would say he's not an alpha, but he certainly, I think he is. And Harden as well.

I think what you're seeing is Westbrook, when he runs the show. with nobody to answer to, including teammates. And that will take you always so far. But for this team, it'll take you to an entertaining place, but a limited place. I just think you're seeing a guy at his best because he doesn't have to share the court with anybody of note. Yeah, there is definitely something to that. And if there is something to that, then I think you have to give Bradley Beal a lot of credit for it.

Because it is working much better with a player that you say isn't an alpha, but he is a bit of an alpha. Beal is a bit of an alpha. And when Wall got hurt, he became the alpha. And he's become this prolific score. Like he may lead the – I think he's a little bit behind Steph after last night. But he's potentially – I didn't argue that, but he'll always defer to somebody stronger. I don't think that that's true over the last couple of years, but to be fair, there wasn't

anybody stronger on the floor for him to defer to. And I don't even see that it's a matter of deferring all the time to Westbrook. I agree with you that Westbrook is the alpha of the two. But they almost have two alphas out there, if that's even possible. But Westbrook is the guy. Westbrook is fueling this. Since April 7th, he's averaging 21.8 points per game, 13.6 rebounds per game, and 13.1 assists per game. Since April 7th, the Wizards are fourth overall and offensive rating, eighth in defensive rating, the net rating third best in the league since April 7th, since all of this started. Now, the first part of the season was marked by him being injured and not being healthy. And by the way, a lot of the team, not being healthy, you know, earlier in the year. But I say that I give Beal credit, and it's going to be hard for me to define this.

All I can tell you is that it's not awkward looking, and it was very awkward looking with Hardin, especially in the bubble. There were times where it was awkward looking with Paul George. It was definitely awkward for that year with Oladipo. And clearly with Durant, you know, there was certainly an understanding, and the two were much younger players. And, you know, there was a lot of Durant, you know, deferring to Russell Westbrook. If you go back to the one NBA finals that Westbrook made it to, which was that year they lost to the heat in five games, Westbrook was the guy that really carried the team. Westbrook,

very much in that series where they blew the 3-1 lead to Golden State was the alpha in that series. You know, I thought Durant, perhaps one of the reasons he left there was because it was hard to play as not the alpha, even though he joined a team with multiple alphas, you know, and Steph Curry and Clay Thompson and Draymond Green, et cetera. I just, I think, again, I don't know if I can tell you specifically why, but Bradley's contribution to this beyond just the scoring numbers and the playmaking, because he's really become a phenomenal playmaker, they're playing well together. give you one reason. I think this team play so effing fast, Tommy, their pace of play is so up there

that you don't have that number of possessions in games where you're in the half court. And it's in a half court setting where then you have to say, well, whose turn is it? Or what are we going to do on this one? Are we going to run a play for Brad or are we going to run a play for Russ or should I defer to other than end of game, like against Dallas the other night, and they ran a play for Beal. A lot of fans thought they should have run it for Russ. I came in here on Monday on the radio show, and I think I said it on the podcast yesterday with Doc, I came in here yesterday and said, I thought Westbrook's game on Saturday night in the loss against the Mavericks was one of the best games I've seen a Wizards player play ever.

He willed them back individually from 18 down. to come back to take the lead in what was a phenomenal basketball game Saturday night, back and forth. And then at the very end, they turned it over to Beal. He almost turned it. Well, he did turn it over, but Netto, you know, saved the day, passed it back to him. And Beal is not and has not been a great closer. Westbrook's been a better clutch player this year in the fourth quarter.

Again, that speaks to what I'm saying. I mean, in terms of, look, I don't know Bradley Bill personally. but from what I know of his interviews and his on-court demeanor, he's going to defer. It's not going to be a power struggle with Bradley Biel as a teammate. I think I don't know if I agree with you on that. By the way, I'm not saying, I agree with you about the power struggle thing,

but I think for whatever reason, there's this ability between the both of them to not have their feelings hurt regardless of how it goes right now. It's easy for Westbrook. Again, in his mind, he's the man. You know, there's no spotlight to share. Well, he's also the facilitator much more than Bradley Beale is, obviously. I mean, you know, I read this stat earlier and I'm looking for it right now.

Here it is. Since April 7th, since they got on this role, Westbrook's assists are leading to 31.6 points per game for Washington. That is the highest mark in the league. Luca Donchich ranks a distant second. He creates 24.8 points per game via assists during that stretch. Russell Westbrook's passes lead to 31.6 points per game. Yeah.

He makes them must watch now. I agree with that. Look, let me ask you this. Yes. Steve Bucan's, and it's painful in the few times I watched the Wizards telecast, not to have Buck making the calls. Right. It's absolutely painful. Right.

But he tweeted out, the Wizards are the team nobody wants to see in the playoffs. That's easy to say. Is that real? Yeah. No doubt. Really? Uh-huh. Yeah.

If you're Philadelphia or you're Brooklyn and you're looking at the potential 1-8-27 matchups and a best-to-seven, that would be the team you do not want to play. In part, Tommy, because the options that they, you know, Charlotte, Indiana. Yeah, okay. You know, those would be much better options. Much easier paths. But the Wizards, people are going to talk. about the Wizards being a threat to make a competitive series out of a 1-8 or a 2-7 matchup.

I say 27 because the Wizards are only a game and a half behind Charlotte for 8th place. If they get to 8th place, they'll play in the 7 versus 8 game, which is for the 7-seed. And then 9-seated team plays the 10-seated team. And by the way, if you get to the 8-seed, it's not single elimination. for you. It's double elimination for you. It's single elimination for the nine versus 10 in this play in tournament. So they've got a good chance to get to the eighth seed and then to play either Miami, it would be Atlanta, Miami, or Boston for the seventh seed. If they were to lose that game, they would have one more opportunity for the eight seed. And that's where they're headed right now,

given the way they're playing. They're just better than Indiana and better than Charlotte, the way they're playing. And even better than Boston right now. And even better than Boston right now. So it wouldn't surprise me if the wizards end up in the seven spot in the east, and they take on, you know, it's going to be Philly or Brooklyn. I think there's a half-game difference at the top of the standings between them. Look, I wanted to just mention one other things. So he's a force of nature. He may be playing at 32 years old the best stretch of basketball of his career,

although I didn't go back and look at it. And there are plenty of people in Oklahoma City, I'm sure, that would be able to say Sheehan go back and look at, you know, December 10th through, you know, March 3rd of, you know, 2013 or whatever. He had some just incredible years, obviously, in Oklahoma City. And by the way, their team results were much better. Bottom line is, though, there are still moments with Westbrook. And these are the things you get concerned about. And in recent years, I've come to admit about a player that's been one of my favorite.

players in the league. And that is when the game slows down, shot selection and turnovers. Look, when the game's at a fast pace, shot selection and turnovers are often an issue with Russell Westbrook. I think everybody who watches him understands that. But, you know, if you're going to get 103 shots or 107 or 108 possessions, 110 possessions, you're going to put up, if he's going to get 24 assists, you'll put up with six turnovers or, or five turnovers or a couple of bad shot selections. And by the way, he's shooting at a much higher percentage, both from the field, from the three point line, from the free throw line,

and even the turnovers in recent games have gone down a little bit. My concern about Westbrook is what we've seen year and year out in the postseason. And that is when the game slows down and the players playing it need to slow down a bit. he's not capable of slowing down. His mind is always full speed. His physical play is always at full speed. And that has led to real issues in tight playoff games. So we'll see what happens when we get to the postseason.

Right now, this team is one of the fastest, one of the best fast break teams. By the way, he's a one-man fast break. he takes it off the rim, he leads a team in rebounds, he leads a team in assists, he is impossible to stay in front of, and it's fun to watch. Now, you know, go ahead. No, go ahead. I mean, in perceiving this team now, as right now, and this seems like an obvious thing, but it came as kind of like a revelation to me in a moment, is I need to stop looking at this

organization with Ernie Grunfeld eyes and start looking at it with Tommy Shepard's eyes. I mean, Tommy Shepard has done a hell of a job putting together the spare parts on this team. And, you know, so I need to, as much as I've been down on the Wizards for decades, literally, and they've earned all of it, I need to stop to, to, to, to, bury the Ernie Grunfeld in the past. Well, he's not, he is in the past. I know that, but, but I, it's, what is he still floundering around in the graveyard? You haven't buried him yet?

It was so consuming. For you. Well, I mean, for anyone who watched this team and paid attention to this team, it should have been all consuming. I mean, because it was a waste of time for years. And now you've got a guy, even though he worked for Ernie, obviously did not think the same way as Ernie. And so I need to think of the possibility, and it's still very difficult,

even if you have a smart guy making the decisions, that this team could start taking steps in the right direction. I think Tommy's doing a really... That there'll be no need for Tommy Shepard to put on the fireman's uniform and to put out the fire that he himself sets. I think Tommy Shepard's doing a great job and I think that the one thing organizationally and I would say that

Tommy's probably a big part of this they are definitely focusing on the makeup of the person the character of the person more than they ever have before Ernie overlooked all of that. Ernie was basically no different than Dan Snyder and Vinnie Serrano and Bruce

Allen. You know Darius Geis, we can get him late in the second round? Let's do it. So I'm with you on that. And yeah, I mean, look, I don't know where this leads this year or next or beyond. They are a highly entertaining team. They have two true stars. They have a top 10 player right now with the way he's playing in Westbrook. They have a top 15 player in Beale. Who knows? I mean, some of you might put him in the top 12 or top 10 right now. They have in Hachamura, a player who keeps getting better.

I would have drafted Brandon Clark, you know, the Gonzaga kid over Hachamara, and I would have drafted Tyler Hero over Hachamura. But Hachamura defends, and when he's healthy, he had a phenomenal game last night. He really is fitting in. Netto is such a good player, such a great find by Tommy Shepard. The three-headed center of Lennon Lopez and the acquisition of Gafford, which I loved when they made it because I knew Gafford was a really exciting college player that I had watched in college.

I had lost touch with him, but Gafford last night had 15 points and three block shots in 15 minutes. I mean, what they've been doing also, by the way, let's not forget, coincides with the trade for Gafford. Yes, his play has been remarkable. I think Isch Smith is such a good, you know, 15 to 20. two minute a night guy. He defends. He's smart. He can score. You know, Bertone's obviously incredibly streaky, but stretches the floor amazingly. Yeah, I mean, it's really, and you know, each night, like last night, you know, Hutchinson played. We've seen Gill play recently and play well. You know, Westbrook makes everybody better. Now, here's what I wanted to finish this segment with.

you did see what Scott Brooks said about Westbrook last night, right? Yes, I did. He said that Russell Westbrook, let me read the quote. He's amazing. He's superhuman at times. Point guards don't do what he does. They're not built that way. Me personally, and then he went on to say,

I used to think he was the third best point guard of all time. I now think he's the second best point guard of all time behind Magic. Well? Well, what? Well, is he right? I'm going to ask you, do you think he's right? No, he's not right. He's not right.

And he's not right because this is a playoff sport. Okay, so I love Russell Westbrook. He's a force of nature. He's unique. You know, he is a point guard that is going to set the all-time mark season and all-time career mark of triple doubles. He's just a few away from breaking Oscar Robertson's mark, which, by the way, I think he's going to set here over the next week or so. But come on, it's a playoff sport. He's been to one NBA finals and they lost in five

games. He got to the Western Conference Finals another time and they blew a 3-1 series lead against Golden State. Now, part of that was Durant too in shooting 10 for 39 or whatever. it was in game seven. They had game five and a chance to close them out and didn't. If Russell Westbrook had been a regular participant deep into the playoffs and had been to the finals and had a championship, this is a sport that does, unfortunately, because the number of players, and it's not nearly as a dependent sport as football, you do get measured on championships much more.

Magic's the greatest point guard of all time. And to me, it's really not close. Magic like Westbrook was transformational, was a total unique player, and by the way, won five championships, and was a three-time MVP and a three-time finals MVP. And a 12-th, you know, like all of these things, like magic was one of the greatest winners of all time. do you consider Oscar to be a point guard? Yes, I do. But if we're going by your standard that, you know, obviously Oscar wasn't good enough to carry those Cincinnati Royals teams to an NBA championship. No.

The one time he, when he got traded to Milwaukee, he won his title there with Kareem. Yeah, a young Lou Alcinder. but Oscars one of the five greatest players of all time so it'd be difficult

for me to put Westbrook ahead of him I mean Isaiah Thomas Yeah there's no There's no you can't put him ahead of Isaiah Thomas

No No you can't I see the problem Until Westbrook gets to the postseason Where by the way The game is different In the postseason

It slows down It becomes more of a half court game. It becomes more of an execution in the half court game, especially, you know, late in games, but sometimes all game long. And that's something where Westbrook has really struggled, which is why he's had issues in the postseason. Russ is one of those guys. I've talked to Legler about this so many times because Legler and I over the years have just, we both loved Westbrook and we both have rooted for Westbrook. And like Legler, I came to the conclusion a couple of years ago, it's just never going to happen.

And Legler was the one I remember who said to me, he can't slow it down. He can't slow it down in his head, in his mind. He can't slow it down physically. And that's why in these games where half-court execution in May and June is so crucial, he hasn't excelled. Isaiah Thomas excelled in all situations, in won two championships, and was a finals MVP. You know, look, I don't want to say that Chris Paul is a better all-time point guard than Russell Westbrook.

But Chris Paul is a better playoff style point guard than Russell Westbrook. And by the way, so is, of course, Steph Curry. I mean, you can't put him ahead. I mean, Magic Isaiah, Steph Curry. And, you know, look, Stockton is a really interesting player because he didn't win a championship, but they got to the championship series multiple times. He and Malone.

And he was a phenomenal, phenomenal point guard. I don't want to put Stockton into the Westbrook conversation, but the truth is that he was a much better playoff performer than Russ was and was much more likely to be able to advance as the lead point guard for his team. than maybe Russ. I want to see what they look like in the postseason this year. But really next year, Tommy, because next year, if you can play an 82 game schedule with everybody healthy, remember when they made this trade, I said they could finish in the top four.

You know, they could finish fourth or fifth. I was a big fan of the trade. It's clear now that if everybody had been healthy this year, the Wizards wouldn't be at 30 and 35. They would be more likely at like 35 and 30, which would put them, you know, in the 5 to 6 range. And these. By the way, you know, the Knicks clenched a playoff berth last night, your former team. So, you know, Scott Brooks is awfully kind, and he's got an incredibly tight relationship with Westbrook. And there's a lot about Westbrook's game that you could compare and say, yeah, in terms of the uniqueness of the way he played it and how he produced during the regular season, to say that he's second to magic isn't crazy. but it's a playoff sport.

I know that. Okay, but Scott Brooks knows where his bread is being buttered right now. He's in the final year of his contract. Yep. Okay. And this is going to be a very difficult challenge for Tommy Shepard. I've talked about it before, but it's going to be even more difficult moving forward. Here's what Westbrook said after Scott Brooks, you know, comments about him being the second best point guard ever. I'm grateful for somebody like Scotty, not only as a coach but as a friend, he's allowed me to be me.

I didn't read it, but ding, ding, ding, Scott Brooks is coming back. I mean, I don't, but that's a mistake. I mean, in the progression of the culture of this organization, bringing Scott Brooks back is a mistake. not if Russell Westbrook wants him to be the coach. Well, then, then, then, you know, then welcome to Wizards Limbo again. Yeah, but 45 wins, you know,

or second, first or second round playoff exits. Good luck. First of all, second round playoff exits is some misprogress for this organization. The NBA conversation is strange because it really is the sport more than any other, where basically two or three teams have a chance to win the title and everybody else is playing for just,

hey, let's get to the postseason and win a couple series and then watch LeBron or Steph Curry and the Warriors or whatever win the title. You know, this year it's actually a little bit more wide open. Actually, it's a lot more wide open this year. Yeah, it's a lot more wide open. And there is a changing of the guard from time to time. Yes. And teams that were bad sometimes find a way to be good.

I mean, really good. Like Milwaukee. But if you're going to change the guard at head coach with Westbrook turning 33 years old, before I get back to Brooks, I don't want to lose this one train of thought. Tommy Shepard again. You know what? He's going to be proven 100% right on not moving Beal and not giving in the temptation of getting a major hall.

for Bradley Beal. Because, you know, whether Beal now is much more likely to come back, given the team that he's playing on. And the bottom line is you wouldn't have gotten this. You wouldn't have had an opportunity next year to come back. Look, if this team comes back next year, let's just say they get to the playoffs. And let's say they lose to the nets in a first round series four games to two. But it's a really competitive series. The Wizards are going to be picked to finish third or fourth in the East next year. year. Probably. So you're not firing the coach and you're not changing the guard before a season in which you may come back with the most loftiest preseason expectations you've had in years. But you know he's not the right coach.

I don't know that. I'm not a big fan of Scott as an X's and O's in-game strategy, a guy that plays with a lot of structure. But I've told you this many times. An NBA coach's value is so beyond at the NBA level, you know, what kind of inbounds plays they run when they have to get the ball and balance. I know that. And Russell Westbrook and Bradley Beale, both of them say,

Scott's got to come back. He's coming back. Of course. Of course. They like to score. They have zero. zero defensive identity, which is what you need to advance in the playoffs. And he's a zero identity defensive coach.

First of all, let me make this clear. Scott really is a nice guy. And I can see why he gets along with players. He's a former player, first of all. He understands, you know, what they're going through. You know, Russ and Durant and Hardin and OKC, they did. love them. I just remember being very frustrated watching OKC and rooting for them because I rooted for Westbrook, just watching so many times. But I remember having this conversation with Gary Williams.

And I said, why don't they, how can you not get the ball in bounds in one of those situations? Or how can you come down on that possession? And, you know, it's Oklahoma City playing Portland in the playoffs or whatever. And not any, and he said, you know, it may not be the coach. It may be a guy like Westbrook is just hard to sort of rein in. And I remember, you know, it's not always the coach. Sometimes they give the directions that basketball people think they should be giving, and the team doesn't execute. You know, I'm going to be very interested to see what happens with their style of play right now.

They are, I mean, the game against Dallas was phenomenal the other night, and they lost to the spurs. Other than that, the mediocre to bad teams, they are throttling right now. I mean, throttling. And so, you know, they have a game tomorrow night at Milwaukee. Really looking forward to that. It's, you know, I think the next big question, as far as this team, before you get to the postseason and you see what happens with Westbrook

in a game that changes and a game that slows down in a game in which you're playing better defensive teams potentially to see what it looks like. Tommy, there was a time, remember, and I know everything's different, but there were, you know, the Denver Nuggets of the 80s that, played no defense at all and would score, you know, would be in 149, 144 games all the time. They did win series in the playoffs. They just couldn't win a title without any defense. And this team, they're not very good defensively. The ranking since April 8th or 7th is decent. They're not, they don't have a lot of good technical defenders, although Westbrook

really is so intense defensively. But the other thing that I think will be interesting, and maybe we'll see it tomorrow night against a good team, like we saw it on Saturday night against a good team in Dallas. And that is, if they get into that position at the end of a game where they've got the ball, 10 seconds left, down one, who's taking the next one? Because Beal basically turned it over, got lucky that the turnover landed in Netto's hands and went back to Beal, and he had a wide open look to beat Dallas, and he missed it. And a lot of people in that game, because Westbrook had willed them back with 42 points. A lot of fans were like,

you got to let Russ end that game there. And so the next situation, it'll be interesting to see what they do. Is it Russ that takes the last shot and has the ball in his hands, or are they going to run something for Beale again? Look, to be honest with you, I think Beal is the best opportunity to get something decent, whether it's getting to the rim or getting to the mid-range

or creating space and hitting a step back. He just hasn't done it very much. Whereas Russ, I don't know if I really want him taking the last shot, but I like him creating for somebody else to have an open shot. If I'm playing defense against them at the end of a game and they're going to Russ, I'm letting him take a jump shot. I'm playing off of him, and I'm going to say, knock down a jump shot, prove you can do it right now.

And he's been hitting a lot of those shots. He has been. All right, we've spent a lot of time. on the Wizards, which is unusual, but timely and I think appropriate based on where they are. If you're not paying attention to it and you like basketball, start watching them. They are fun to watch. And they're a good team right now, a good team. They have won now 10, 13 of their last 16 games.

And the two of the three losses were basically an overtime loss and at the buzzer loss. they are one of the hottest teams in the league and one of the most dangerous teams in the league entering the very end of the season. There is, they've played 65 games. They're playing 72. They've got seven games left. The next five, by the way, are on the road. On the road doesn't mean what it usually does, understood, but they've got Milwaukee,

they've got Indiana, they've got Atlanta twice. You know, Indiana rematch, they've got Atlanta twice. Atlanta's capable. And the toughest team they play the rest of the way is their game tomorrow. night at Milwaukee. When we come back, we'll get Tommy's thoughts on the draft. I had a couple of other things to talk about related to the draft. And then we'll end the show with Tom Wilson and what's coming next for him after

last night's brawl. We'll get to all of that right after this word from one of our sponsors. Before we get to the draft, have you watched the series that I told you to watch on HBO yet, mayor of Eastown with Kate. Yes, I have. Okay. Oh, you have. So, and what do you think?

I watched the first. I enjoyed it. I mean, I'm not salivating over it. I mean, because I got to tell you, you know, I'm sick and tired of Hollywood making, living in a small town, the most depressing thing in the world. That's true. It really is. It really looks depressing.

And incredibly incestuous, too. Oh, my God. with a small town, it's just, it's a miserable life. I felt like watching Andy, Andy, Andy Griffith show just to cleanse myself. That's a little, that's a little more fun-loving. But I enjoyed it, but. You've watched two of the three? Yeah, it's a little bit much.

I mean, like, I could use a few. Look, I guess, I know we're talking about a murder and all that stuff and God only knows what else. But I like my dramas with a couple of. couple of laughs once in a while. Just a few laughs. Yeah, it's dark. I agree with you. And I, you know, they make it look almost like it's a steel town in Western PA.

And it's not. Right? Right. It's a suburban Philly town. It's a suburban Philly town. So, first of all, I do like it a lot. The thing that I told you that I don't love about it is they're trying so hard to get the Philly accent down, all of them.

And Kate Winslet's a Brit, and we all know what she sounds like. And I think it's just maybe it's because it's her. If it weren't her and it was somebody else that we didn't know, and it wasn't a major star, maybe it would come off differently. But I'm enjoying it. It's a good thriller, and it's a really good whodunit at this point. And it gets even better and more interesting with Sunday nights episode three, although I didn't think it was the best of the three episodes so far,

but there's definitely another twist or two. I'm in it, and I'm enjoying it. And one real minor little thing, I don't like the affectation of her smoking an e-cigarette. Yeah, what's that about? I mean, if you're going to smoke, smoke, you know? I mean, a cigarette, as horrendous as it may be, there's a certain romantic film noir quality of somebody smoking a cigarette.

You love chicks who smoke. Well, there's nothing about an e-sig that's attractive to anyone. So I could do with that. I know it's a sign of the Times. And, you know, she's a flawed individual who's probably trying to quit smoking. I get all that. I just don't. Every time she puffs on, I'm thinking, oh, what a waste of time.

Why not just stick a corn, pipe in her mouth. Yeah, this is, for those that don't know what we're talking about, I think I mentioned the title, Mayor of East Town, it's an HBO thing, Sunday nights, 10 o'clock. You can't binge it. You've got to wait week in and week out. I think it's a seven-episode thing.

There are three episodes in. It stars Kate Winslet. She's good. I mean, I don't know. I've always been a massive fan. I think she's good in almost everything that she's done. And it's good. I mean, it's, Tommy's right, though.

I mean, it almost seems, what's the, what's the 70s movie, Western PA, Vietnam, you know. The deer hunter. The deer hunter. It almost has the deer hunter feel of the town, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. You know, damp, dark, you know, very blue collar. And I don't know what he's- Everybody's miserable.

Everybody's miserable. Everybody's basically related to. each other for the most part. I don't think that that's probably even true about East Town. I don't know. What county is East Town in? It's not in Montgomery County or Bucks County, is it? How close is it to Philly as a Philly suburb? I'm looking it up right now. You don't know the answer? No, I don't. Okay. Oh, it's in Chester County. Okay. Okay. All right, what did you think of the draft? Well, I would say what Bucky Brooks said.

What did Bucky Brooks? Washington is quickly rounding into a legitimate contender. Another strong class that should help Washington make a push to repeat as division champions. And he gave it a grade A. I like Bucky Bucson. Except that was his evaluation in 2016. Oh, okay. Okay.

So why did you bring it up? What was his evaluation this year? Well, I don't know what his evaluation was this year. I could care less about anyone's grade or evaluation this year because it's absolutely useless. I agree with you. You know, look, with most teams, it's useless. With this team, it's really useless. I mean, shit happens.

No, it's useless with almost any team. Right. But you have shit happens. It gets in a way. For this team, Washington shit happens. It's even worse. It gets in a way. So while everyone was, and I understand why people looked at it and say, wow, they seem to have made some smart draft picks here. Now, I don't know anything about the players actually, but in terms of choosing positions and from what I read, they seem to have had a smart draft. Doesn't mean anything. No. I mean, it doesn't mean anything. I mean, I think I did this yesterday. I can't remember if I did it yesterday or not, but I'll just do it with you anyway. Charlie Casserly has always told me over the years and probably you as well. You can't grade a draft until three years after the draft.

I mean, it's absurd to try to do it. We all understand that intellectually as football fans, even though we, you know, we can't wait to see, What did Kuiper grade it? What did Bucky Brooks grade it? What did Dane Bruegler grade it? I'm not sure we all do understand that intellect. Okay. Well, we do, and I think a lot of our listeners do,

that grading a draft is almost as dumb as mock drafting. Like Scott was done with me on the pre-draft show on Thursday night. And, you know, he just said, I said that the draft in trade compensation are the things that we get wrong. And he said, no, no, no. The draft by far, because not only do we get it wrong more than anything that we talk about when we talk about sports, the people who are paid to do it get it wrong so much. Like, you know, I think it was Casserly.

It could have been Bethard several years ago said to me that a really good draft is to look at it three years afterwards. And if 35% of the players you drafted in that draft, 35 to 40% are either starters or true contributors, then you had a decent draft. and anything above, you know, that range is an excellent draft. And anything below that range isn't very good. Well, let's go back, okay, to 2018, the draft three years ago. Duran Payne, he looks like a star that looks like they got that one right. Then it's Darius Geis.

Geron Christian, I mean, he's contributed, but you'd hardly say that a third round, using a third rounder on Geron Christian at this point, has really proven to be like a really good pick. It hasn't. Troy Apkey has played but Stunk is a safety. Good special teamer. Tim Settle, Sean Dionne Hamilton, Greg Stroman, and Trey Quinn. All right, they drafted eight players in 2018 from three years ago. A class, by the way, that, ooh, people were all excited about, you know, they got geis at the end of this.

Do you remember? The steal the draft. Pain was an afterthought in that draft. It was all about Darius Geis. I'll never forget being at the stadium for that Saturday afternoon debacle that we did. It wasn't with you, obviously, at that point. I did it with Clinton and Smoot. And the two of them were falling all over each other about geis and getting them at the end of the second round.

And, you know, in Washington, remember how proud they were. I mean, Bruce Allen. I mean, we got a guy that we had a first round grade on at the year. We traded back and got them. I mean, talk about value. Well, Bruce, there was a reason every other team in the league passed on him. It seems that you were the only team that didn't realize how horrific a person this was. Anyway, Geis, Christian, Apke settled.

I mean, you can't find another, you know, obvious, hey, we got that one right. I think Tim Settle looks like he could be a really good player in the future. I do. And Duran Christian's had a couple of moments. but out of the eight players, what you've got out of that draft is one significant contributor. One out of eight. Yeah. Let me go back to 2017, because that's four years ago now.

John Allen, that is a really good pick. A solid pick. He's an excellent player. Now, these are number one picks, mind you. Yes. These aren't third round picks. These are first round picks. Ryan Anderson started some games, you know, but he's not on the team anymore because he's really,

not that good. Fabian Moreau has started some games and had some moments. He's not on the team anymore because he's not that good. Samajet P. Ryan, actually is now decent I think, where was he last year? Cincinnati. Cincinnati. But not here. Monta Nicholson

was a starter, you know, and I actually thought had some, you know, some decent games, but obviously not going to turn into a good pick because it was short-lived because of a lot of issues. Jeremy Sprinkle No. Chase Ruey, yes. John Allen, Chase Ruey. Robert Davis, no, Josh Harvey Clemens, not really, Joshua Holsey. So that year, the year before, one out of eight, that year was two out of ten. I think that, Tommy, that's 20 percent, I believe, based on my math. Let me get my calculator. These drafts of 2017 and 2018, which everybody was, oh my God, we got John Allen, he fell all the way to 17. We were right.

about that. The rest of the draft, eh, not great. Chase Ruiy's a starting center in the league. He's our starting center. 2018, Duran Payne. We have no idea. But you're right, people are going to grade it high and they're going to do, and our fan base is going to say we filled a lot of needs

and this was really good. We have no earthly idea about this draft, and we won't know for three years. Period. Like even when it appears, you know, briefly like, whoa, they got something there.

You know, sometimes that can disappear very quickly. I mean, if you just, well, I mean, the 2019 draft, obviously Haskins was a bust. Right now, Sweat and McLorn and Holcomb look like three out of, what did they have in that pick? Nine picks? No, they had 10 picks there. It looks like they're going to push, you know, sort of that 30 to 35 percent range on the 2019 draft, despite failing miserably in the first.

first round. But sometimes you can land a player that you think, you know, in the moment he's going to be like Bashad Breeland. Breeland's had a good career. Don't get me wrong. And we didn't resign him and he made it, you know, as a free agent. Breeland was picked in the fourth round and I would consider that to be, you know, a decent selection as I would the Ryan Grant selection. But Ryan Grant now is out of the league. I think he's playing in Canada. And what did he really contribute? So it looked good initially and ended up not being as great. God, even, you know, whatever. The point is, you know, your point's well taken.

Okay. I guess we could still argue this point, even though, you know, we're past it. Did they make a mistake by not going for a quarterback? So, you know, Ron Rivera did the rounds yesterday, did several radio shows and did TV guys and everything. Basically, I think the net of it is this, because the truth is he sort of answered the question consistently, but not specifically. And I think when he approached specifics, it got a little murky. And I'm not going to go through all of the different interviews because I'm not going to sit here and be critical of anybody, because I understand that sometimes you have a chance on a follow-up and to get more specific when he's,

sort of telling you about various players and you're on to your next question, whatever. The bottom line is what I think was the case, and I think he pretty much admitted it, is there definitely was a conversation about trading up for a quarterback. And it was definitely a possibility before the draft and even during the draft. And I think that there were two guys that potentially they were interested. If Trey Lance had really fallen and hadn't been picked three overall, There was some interest in him. And what I've said since the end of January, early February,

I think was also sort of backed up to a certain degree that there was definite interest in Fields. Fields was traded. Lance was gone, obviously, with the 49ers pick. And Fields was traded, you know, came via the Bears trade with the Giants and was picked at 11. Now, if Fields had gotten to 13 where the chargers were picking, Do I think Washington may have been aggressive there at 13 or 14? I mean, the Chargers weren't going to take a quarterback. Minnesota wasn't going to take a quarterback in the first round.

And Minnesota already decided that they were going to trade back to get Derisaw. But were the Chargers a possibility at 13 for Fields? I don't know for sure. My guess is that there was a spot where Fields could have gotten to, and it was clearly not eight or nine because eight or nine would have been the spot to move up to because you weren't going to be able to cut a deal with the Cowboys, Giants or Eagles at 10, 11, or 12 for a quarterback.

So they didn't think it was eight or nine. Did they think it was 13 or 14? Maybe. Maybe. And I think at that point there probably was some conversation. Ultimately what Rivera said is they just felt like ultimately the guy didn't drop far enough. You know, the guys didn't drop far enough. And going up to the spots where they were taken

would have been too much draft capital. And they were comfortable staying where they were if they didn't move up because they're comfortable with what they have. So they didn't love any of those guys enough. I think they would have, well, if you don't trade up to the nine spot with, Denver or the eighth spot with Carolina. And we don't know that they didn't try, but I don't think they did.

Maybe Carolina and Denver passed on potential offers from Washington or other teams. But I think we would have heard that by now. I think that if you define top 10 as loving the guy and really going for it in a big way, then yeah, that would be obvious. Yeah, I know. It's like, they didn't say, we got to have that guy. No, they said if this guy, falls to this level, that draft capital, you know, not having to give up next year's first, maybe only having to give up, you know, this year's second and a fourth to move up six spots or four spots or five spots or whatever. Or if he had fallen to Arizona at 16 and you only had to move up two or three spots, then they were willing to do that. So yeah, I think you could

probably say that there wasn't anybody there, well, at least with respect to Fields and Jones, we know, because they're the two that fell the furthest, that they didn't love either one of them. I think they liked Fields. I think we learned that they liked Lance to a certain degree, because he said about a player being taken early, unless it was Wilson, that if that player had fallen, and really Lance was the possibility of a falling quarterback. Because everyone figured Wilson was going to be a jet. That was pretty much a given. So I think the more interesting question is this Aaron Rogers thing.

And I had Joe Thaisman on the show this morning, and I said to Joe, would you go for it? And he said, absolutely not. And I just said, why? And he said, because I like what they're doing right now. They're building it. And they're, you know, they don't need that. They have Fitzpatrick and he likes the guys. And I just said, Joe, do you know if.

Aaron Rogers were on this team, even if you had to give up, you know, two first, two seconds and a key player, they would be one of the two or three favorites in the NFC to go to the Super Bowl. Like they haven't been that in 30 years. I mean, what is this nice little tidy story is that, oh, we're getting all ducks in a row, and we're folding on paper just right, and our penmanship is really good, and we don't want to mess all that up and tear up all. all that construction we're doing and bring in somebody who can just blow everyone else away. We don't want to do that.

We're folding our paper just right. We've got the perfect fold of the paper now. Don't mess it up. It fits perfectly into the envelope just like it is. It's a threefold. Don't mess it up. Yeah, it's a perfect straight line. It's not tilted at all.

We got the threefold. It fits right into a perfect 8 by 11 envelope. There it is. Is it 8 by 11? whatever the legal envelope is, boom, do people even use envelopes anymore? We have them in our house. I don't know. You know what that is?

That's a low-level worker attitude. This is so insane to me. And I, the Deshawn Watson conversation is a different conversation. It's not that different. Obviously, it's much different now. I'm talking about when we were having it before all of this, you know, the massage stuff started coming out. It's different because Deshawn Watson is an elite franchise quarterback, but he's not Aaron Rogers.

Like there are two levels, I think, of elite. Maybe I should have done this when I was talking about, when I was talking about Deshawn Watson. You know, right now there is the Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rogers, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rogers' Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rogers class, okay? And then you get into, you know, I'm excluding Brady from this because he's 40, he's going to be 44 fucking years old. So, I mean, that's not a possibility.

But then you get in. No, it's a championship quarterback, Super Bowl quarterback basically. Team franchise elite quarterbacks. There's six or seven of them. It's Rogers and Mahomes in tier one. And then tier two is like Russell Wilson. I think Josh Allen right now is in that conversation. I think Deshawn Watson is probably in that conversation before all this other stuff.

I'm talking about a couple of months ago. Who knows what the status of him is right now? God, you know, there's a lot to like about Justin Herbert right now, a lot to like. Lamar Jackson in a different way. You know, I'm not including Brady and obviously brief. isn't in the league anymore, and I don't put Stafford at that level. I put Stafford then in that group of guys from like six to 14 that can be anywhere in that range, or 7 to 15, whatever it is.

The bottom line is, Aaron Rogers, if he's available and I am Washington or another organization that hasn't had an elite quarterback for 30 years, I am definitely aggressive. and there's nobody on my roster that's untradable. And I don't want to trade anybody on my roster. I love all my players, especially on defense. And I love some players on offense, too, and I don't want to trade them. If you told me I got to trade next year's, you know, most of next year's picks, and I had to trade some of this year's picks.

Obviously, it's too late now. But I am going for it. Are you kidding me? I agree. I agree. With the nice, you know, folding the paper without the quarterback. and I'm excited about Ryan Fitzpatrick. I think he's going to play well for them.

I do, but he's not Aaron Rogers. I find it a strange attitude for a coach to have. You know, coaches, I mean, this coach, any coach worth their salt should know their life span is very short in their job. You know, two or three years of seven and nine. And Dan Snyder, if he's still the owner, is. looking for another coach. You know? And meanwhile, you have a chance in the next two to three years to have the best quarterback

in football, at least now. I just don't understand how a coach would not say, yeah, let's get this guy. You know, somebody said to me, so you would take three years of Aaron Rogers in his prime, just let's call it three years, 41 years old, for what they may be built. for 10 years. And I just said 100%, because the next three years with him, I know, as long as he's not injured, they're going to be in contention. Are they going to win the Super Bowl? I can't guarantee that. Are they going to be in the Super Bowl? Can't guarantee that. Are they going to be in the postseason? Absolutely. Are they going to win 11 or 12 games, two of those three years and maybe 10

the third year? Yeah. How many times have they won 11 or 12 games in 30 years? Not any. That would be the answer to that. So I would definitely, because there's no guarantee. I mean, we've already seen, I've pointed to the examples. I think Denver's the best one in recent years. They've had this dominant defense, a dominant player on defense in Von Miller, potentially two great dominant players in Chubb and Miller.

And they haven't been able, as Doc Walker would say, bust a grape. They haven't even been close to sniffing the postseason. And look, Washington had an improved defense, pretty good defense last year, and it might be even better this year. I think it will be. But they went seven and nine last year with all of that young talent on defense. And it gave up 507 yards to 43-year-old Tom Brady and company in the postseason. So I'm not doing cartwheels over the clean fold of the paper.

I'm happy with what they have. I'm more encouraged with what they have in leadership and in coaching and in talent. And if you can't get that elite quarterback, I am excited and looking forward to seeing Ryan Fitzpatrick out there, to seeing an improved defense. But again, we've had two conversations in this offseason. They're very unique opportunities that really rarely, if ever, exist. The first conversation was Deshawn Watson. Well, that one's essentially gone into the shitter, okay, because of his,

of what's going on with him. But still, it was a totally unique situation to have a 25-year-old under contract entering his prime already considered to be a franchise type of quarterback, borderline elite, like top five, available. It never happens. And here we are a couple of months later. The situation, the conversation is different because of Aaron Rogers' age, but it's not a Peyton Manning conversation or Tom Brady conversation when Peyton went to Denver or Tom went to Tampa.

This guy just was the MVP of the league last year. So anyway, I wanted to mention two other quick things as sort of a follow-up to the draft. Number one is Ron said something yesterday that really I didn't think about and I didn't know. He talked about signing Jared Patterson, which was one of the running backs that I really liked coming into this draft and he wasn't picked. and he was the only undrafted free agent. Last year they only had four. This year they only had one. And he explained.

He said, drafting a player is much, in many cases, is much more advantageous for the team than signing the players an undrafted free agent. And the reason is, is there's no competition in a draft.

When you select them, that player is yours. And there's a fixed contract and pretty much a fixed contract, and pretty much a fixed signing bonus for the most part. When you get into the players that weren't drafted, there's competition. And you end up, in some cases, paying an undrafted free agent more signing bonus money than you pay a drafted player. I actually didn't really think about that, and I didn't really know that. And he said that's one of the reasons they traded into the sixth round to take the long snapper.

is they didn't want to get into a competition for them and potentially have to pay them more as an undrafted free agent. And so I thought that that was interesting. Something to keep in mind moving forward. You know, it's probably something that would have never occurred to the previous administration

or the last couple of previous administrations. The other thing that I wanted to mention is that this is another thing that I understand is really, irrelevant and I've been a big you know I've discussed how irrelevant power rankings are Tommy's mocked me for doing them on the show you know I I make fun of the people get all wrapped up in the schedule even though their quarterbacks that they face next year are really tough but anyway the NFL dot com came out with their post draft power rankings and I'm bringing

it up just for this reason I was really blown away with what they did with Washington They dropped Washington from pre-draft as the 19th best team in the league to post-draft the 24th best team in the league. None of you listening think that Washington's in the bottom 25% of teams going into next year. Most of you think that they have a chance to win the division. They have a chance to win 10 or 11 games or 12 games, 12 and 5, that they have a chance to win some playoff games. and NFL.com comes out and has them as the 24th ranked team in the NFL. And by the way, third in the division. Okay, they're behind the Cowboys and behind the Giants.

And they're only one. Both of whom, if you believe all these draft experts, had good drafts as well. Right. Now, Chicago made the biggest jump for the trade for Justin Fields up to 19. And that's where Washington was on the previous power rankings there at 19. Washington dropped to 24th. I mean, are you kidding me? Wow.

That really blew me away. Like, you really, like, it started to make me think, they really just still think so little of this organization. And when you're outside of this market, there's still this feeling, it's still Snyder, it's still Washington. Washington had a pretty good draft by most accounts. Again, sort of a joke to try to grade it, but I would say this. I do think Dallas should be the favorite to win the division. I think Washington should be the second favorite, worst case, co-favorits with the Giants to win the division,

and that Philadelphia should be the pick to finish dead last. Now, who the fuck knows what's going to happen, really? I mean, especially in this division, but I really think that that is, I don't, yeah, I mean, I just thought it was, I thought it was an observation about how disrespectful, you know, the rest of sort of the NFL world continues to view Washington. Why? Because they didn't get a quarterback. You drop them 19 to 24.

Why? Because all the sudden Dallas and the Giants look so much better? I don't know. I think there's this, I think there's this definite, you know, some caller called this morning and said that NFL.com was tweeting out every draft choice in the first round with the exception of Washington's, which I do not believe is true. I can't imagine that NFL.com is tweeting out in the first round of their draft. All right, number, who got picked 18? I can't remember right now. Hold on. I'll pull it up here in a second. Number 18 overall, Jalen Phillips from

the University of Miami goes to Miami. Here's a highlight package and they tweet out the whole thing. And then they just skip over Washington at 19 and Jamie Davis and get to the... I just can't believe that that happened. I haven't gone back and looked. I don't believe that. But I do believe that there is still an anti-Washington anti-Snyder bias and just this default position that they'll screw it up somehow.

You know, even though things look sort of promising, they'll screw it up. It's well earned. It is well earned. Okay. Let's finish up the show with just a brief conversation when we come back about what Tom Wilson did last night and what that will lead to for him, right after this word from one of our sponsors. The Caps weren't a wild game last night. They were down three, two to the Rangers.

They came back one at six to three. They've got four games left. They're tied atop the East Division. But the story last night, actually there were a lot of stories. Alex Ovechkin came back and got hurt again. They suspended Samsonov. and Kuznetz off for missing some or being late to some team meeting. And then in the game against the Rangers, Tom Wilson on a scrum sort of at the net,

Tom Wilson punched Pavel Bucanavich in the head with him face down on the ground, totally defenseless. We were going to have this conversation to talk about what we thought would be next for Tom Wilson, but the news literally just came out moments ago. before you saw the news of what the punishment was for Tom Wilson, Tommy, what did you think he deserved? Well, you know, it's hard to say. I didn't look, I am, I am a reactionary when it comes to fighting. I don't like it.

I don't like it in the NHL. And I think it should be, oh, I am. I think it should be legislated out. That's why I cover boxing because I'm a pacifist. I was just going to say the pacifist to cover. is boxing and loves it. Right. So my initial reaction was ban this guy for the rest of the season,

but obviously the NHL did not see any kind of evidence to warrant any kind of severe penalty for Tom Wilson, who has a long history of these kinds of transgressions. And you would think would face a multiple offender, punishment for something like this. He's been fined $5,000. He injured... That's it. He injured Artemey Panarin as well

as part of that fight when he got up and threw him down on the ground head to the ice on two different occasions. Panarin, the Rangers say, was injured. The coach for the rangers said that Wilson had really crossed the line in both instances. So the news just came out. Wilson fined $5,000. for punching Bucanavich in the back of the head while he was face down on the ice. That was the conclusion that the NHL Department of Player Safety came to.

Greg Wyshinsky writes, Wilson will not have a hearing for throwing Artemi Panarin to the ice in the ensuing scrum. The fine is the maximum available, allowable under the collective bargaining agreement. And Greg Wyshinski, who writes, is the CERNske, senior NHL writer for ESPN. We've had him on the show many times, writes the following. He said the NHL focused on three factors in assessing supplemental discipline for Wilson. The first was his fall on Buchanavich in the crease, which the league felt wasn't egregious, and that Wilson didn't drive down on Buchanavich's neck with his stick.

The second was Wilson's gloved punch to the back of Buchanavich's head while the Ranger player was still on the ice. The force and location of the punch were a consideration. the league considered the incident to be commonplace within the context of a scrum around the net, but worthy of a fine. When it came to Wilson throwing Panarin to the ice, the league also felt it was commonplace when players engaged during a scrum. Wilson didn't seek out Panarin to assail him. Panarin jumped on Wilson's back to pull him away from another player, and Wilson responded by throwing him to the ice twice. The NHL did not find ample evidence that Wilson pulled Panarin down to the ice by his hair, a popular theory on social media on Monday night.

Look, at the NHL suspended... He got 14 minutes in penalty time. He suspended, they suspended Wilson during the playoffs a couple years ago. Oh, yeah. So it's not like they're shy about punishing this guy. This is what they found. I mean, you know, I mean, I don't like it, but, I mean, I would think that if they felt like there was something egregious, they would have come down hard on Tom Wilson.

I actually really enjoy watching Tom Wilson play. I love the physical nature of the way he plays. I was convinced that, I mean, in watching the highlight, I didn't watch it live. I was watching the basketball. In watching the highlight, I thought it was a real cheap shot. I thought that punch was a real cheap shot. Now, it wasn't like an attempt to knock him out with a punch, but I just thought it really looked like a cheap shot,

that the guy was defenseless. there was like this scrum at the net, he's down, face, you know, on the ice, you know, lying on his stomach and Wilson punches him in the back of the head. I thought that that was going to lead to a suspension. I don't know anything about these things, but to your point, you know, he was suspended for that, you know, hit to Aston Reese in the playoff series against the Penguins when he got three games and, you know, Caps fans went nuts over that. But, you know, like you always say, what's the track record with the guy? And I thought the track record, history would catch up with him. He got suspended seven games for that boarding call earlier this

year on Bruins' defenseman Brandon Carlo, which I thought was really physical, but I thought the seven games seemed like an awful lot, but it was the history of this. So I'm surprised. I'm happy for him and the caps because what I didn't under, what I couldn't answer this morning was if he got suspended, let's say he got six games. There are only four games left in the regular season. I didn't know if it would actually bleed into the postseason or it would just, you know, the other two games after the four served this year would come during next year's regular season. I think it would bleed into the postseason. I'm surprised that that's all he got.

But I don't know anything about this sport. And Wysinski doesn't seem super surprised at it. I mean, let's move on. I thought it was a cheap shot. And I like Wilson. I think most of them are cheap shot. So let's move on. All right.

Let's move on to the next fight. Let's move on to the next fight. The NHL playoffs are basically a week away. No, about a week and a half away. And I do like the postseason, and Caps are sitting there at the top of the standings with the penguins, and the Bruins are there, and the Islanders there. It's going to be, you know, they've lost a couple in a row to the penguins.

So it might come down to one of those Washington Pills. Pittsburgh series, which are always hard-fought and really is the rivalry in the sport. I don't think anybody would debate that. There's no bigger rivalry in the NHL unless you want to talk about some of the New York teams and the Islanders Rangers, and for New Yorkers, that may be the case. But really, you know, Caps-Pens is the rivalry in that sport. We don't have another team in town that is part of the rivalry in their sport anymore, other than Capp's Pens.

No, we don't. All right, good job. I'll talk to you on Thursday. Okay, boss. Cooley supposed to join me tomorrow. Hopefully he's feeling well, and we will get his draft recap tomorrow. Take care. Have a good day. All right, I will chat with you on Thursday. Okay, I'll see you.

All right, bye.