The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jacked Jayden?

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

Kevin and Thom opened with Jayden Daniels topics including a recent photo that has people believing that he's stronger/bulkier than he was last year. The boys also talked about where Jayden might land on the "NFL Top 100" list that comes out later in the summer. Plenty on last night's Knicks-Pacers classic. Old-school NBA talk as well featuring Thom's latest You Tube fascination...John Stockton. The guys also with more on the "Tush Push" vote, thoughts on Dan Quinn's commencement speech at Salisbury, and lots more.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always,

Window Nation 86690 Nation. Windonation.com if you need new windows. Tommy just mentioned to me before we started to record that there's a photo of Jaden Daniels at voluntary workouts from, I guess, yesterday or the day before. and people are commenting on how big and strong he looks in this photo. He doesn't look any different to me. I'm just, I've sat here for the last few minutes, stared at this photo.

People are putting it side by side with a picture from him in a game last year. I don't see a big difference. I don't see this. He's jacked up. I don't see it. Do you? Well, what people are mistaken, muscles are, what they're mistaking is it's the aura around him now. He has this aura around him that makes him bigger.

A halo? That's what it is. Halo, aura. And I help put it there. Well, of course. It was all you. I see some. muscular arms, but I don't see them looking much different than last year.

You know, it's actually a good segue way to get into something real quickly because somebody sent me an email and I was looking for it. I can't find it. But the essence of it was, wouldn't Jaden Daniels be like one of the first picks on the 2028 flag football team? Can you imagine people trying to grab his flag? Yeah, he'd be a phenomenal flag football. player. I'm sure he would be. I don't want him participating. Of course not. We're many years away from it, but I have a feeling I'm not going to want him to be a part of the 2028 flag football Olympic team. Yeah, if you're a fan, you don't want one of your players on that team.

Maybe you think it would be a cool thing, but that's a risk you don't need. Have you seen some of the memes about the 2028 flag football team? There's this Justin Jefferson running like pass routes against some like Japanese defender. Like it's just like what other country is going to feel the team that will be competitive? Like this is just they might as well just play the national anthem and then hand out the gold medal. to the U.S. team. Now you know how the rest of the world feels when the United States plays in the World Cup.

Right. Although it's, the U.S. is at least ranked in like the top 15, I believe, in the world, in soccer. Well, there's only so many teams, countries in the world that have flag football. One. So my point is that, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter where you're ranked in world flag football rankings. There are no world rankings for flag football.

Right, so I don't know why you bring in the rankings of the World Cup. Because you said it's the same way that people feel about the U.S. when they show up for the World Cup. Yeah, but the U.S. actually is pretty good in soccer compared to a lot of countries. I don't, who's going to show up that is anywhere near the U.S. team. There's no it. I don't even know how the game will be played, but I would

imagine the U.S. will be 75-point favorites over every team they play. I don't get this competition. I don't understand it. Nobody else... You understand it. I mean, this is, we've talked about this just recently.

It's a great marketing tool by the NFL. Yes. But why would the rest of the world want to participate. Because, because, like I told you, the host country gets to pick, I think, a sport or two for the games where they're going to be. Okay. And they lobby the Los Angeles Olympic Committee to allow flag football. That doesn't mean they'll be flag football in 2032. And frankly, the NFL doesn't give a shit if there is in 2032 in Brisbane, Australia. Brisbane. Yeah.

You know what? I guess the Canadians could put together a team. They play, you know, the Canadian football. And I guess some of the rugby countries like England and Ireland, you know, the English and the Irish should come over and try to play rugby instead of flag football. See, there are some countries that may come in and try to rough up some of the U.S. players rugby style. I would not want Jaden Daniels playing in the flag football 2028 Olympic competition. No.

No, you don't. But this validates what I said all along about getting back to the sport that, for people who don't like sports, soccer. Yes. Is that you could take the Super Bowl chance, send them the soccer camp for three or four weeks, and they would go win the World Cup. Yeah, that's your best line every four years. It doesn't get old. Take the Super Bowl champs and send them to soccer camp. That's kind of like what we're talking about now.

Yeah. I just looked up the FIFA rankings. Do you want to guess on where the United States is ranked in the world? 12th. They're actually ranked 16th right now. Oh, boy. Argentina's... In front of that Tobago ahead of them?

No. No, let me just... The smallest country ahead of them would... Actually, there's Morocco. Morocco is ahead of them. Morocco. I think Morocco, though, was actually in, like, the Elite 8 a few years back. Argentina's number one.

Spain, two, France, three, England, four, and Brazil, five, if you were wondering. Okay. That's enough soccer. That's it. All right. We got a lot of things to get to on the show today. Oh, I know. Real quickly on Jaden Daniels.

beyond the flag football conversation. You know what I'm looking forward to this summer? I'm looking forward to that NFL top 100 list that comes out on NFL network in late July, typically, the top 100 players in the league as voted by the players. The one where if the team is lucky, they've got a guard or a tackle that's 75th on the On the list? You mean like Washington, the last many years? Yes.

Where is Jaden going to be on this list? He's going to be high up there. Well, we already believe he's a top five quarterback. Right. So. Now the list is going to have running backs, wide receivers, defenders. So that's going to flesh it out a little bit. Last year's list, okay, the quarterback Lamar Jackson was number two.

two on the list. Quarterback Patrick Mahomes was number four on the list. Josh Allen was 12 on the list. And then Jalen Hertz was 15. So I'm going to guess. Here's the territory. I'm getting, yeah, exactly. Where was Joe Burrow on this list? He was all the way down at 39. He'll be higher, much higher on the list. So if Jackson Mahomes, Alan and Burrow are say in the top 15. Jaden's going to be somewhere there between 15 and 25 on the list. Absolutely. And you know who else is going to make it? Go ahead. Well, no, tell me who else is going to make the list.

Terry last year was 97 on the list, and I think he was the only Washington player, although Bobby Wagner was on the list, even though, you know, even though he hadn't played yet for Washington. Washington. So I would guess that Wagner will be on the list again. I think Frankie Louvo has a chance to be on the list. Terry's certainly going to be in the list in much higher than he was last year. And then that's probably it's, well, Sam Cosme could end up being on the list, way down, you know, closer to 100 than to 75. But he could. certainly be on that list. Terry, Jaden, Wagner, Louvo. I don't think Sanra still makes the list after his rookie season. But those four will be on the list. It'll be the most players Washington's had on that list maybe ever, because that list they just started making maybe 10 years ago. but Jaden's going to be the highest ranked Washington player in our lifetime of this list easily. Okay.

How about Jim Ursay passing away at the age of 65 yesterday? One thing about Jim Ursay while we get to the meet of the discussion. Yes. He outbid Ted Leonces for the original manuscript for, Jack Kerouac's on the road. I remember you telling me that. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. He was a collector of the, he had all kinds of rock and roll collectors. Big music fan. No, guitars. Yeah. You know? And stuff like that.

And he had Jack Kerouac on the road. Did you ever read on the road? I have not read on the road, but I'm certainly familiar with Jack Kerouac. Yeah, on the road. I read it when I was about 31. Mm-hmm. If I'd have read it when I was 21. Were you high?

when you read it? No, I was 31. I was married with a kid on the way. Yeah. He was a massive collector, and I was reading something last night. He owns Ali's championship belt from the Rumble in the Jungle fight. Wow. He also, as you said, he owns like millions of dollars worth of memorabilia that is music, primarily music, are related.

You know, we'll get to why we're going to talk about Ursa, not just, you know, to talk about his life because it's not like Ersay was a big part of this town at all. But I found his story to be interesting because he was considered at various times a bit of a boob owner, you know, a blundering owner until they drafted Peyton Manning. And not only that, you know, the entire move by his father from Baltimore to Indianapolis just left a stain, a major stain on the Ursaan name. I think for NFL fans, certainly for Baltimore fans. But I think that there was this, you know, because he was an interesting guy and was interested in a lot of different things, people liked him. And I don't think I realized that until a few years ago. Because while the Colts did have great success, I remember years ago referencing the Colts as one of those examples of a bad organization that got saved by a quarterback.

You know, the Cardinals went to a Super Bowl, but they're terribly owned and have been for years by the Bidwells. And yet somehow they landed Kurt Warner there for a season or two, and they went to the Super Bowl and nearly one. it and that these were examples that we could use in Washington of the way you, you know, get beyond the situation we have is to luck your way into a great quarterback. But I guess Ursa was more respected than that by people around the loop. Here's what he did, okay? And this gave him gravitas among his fellow owners. He did the big three.

First of all, he won a Super Bowl. Okay. Secondly, he hosted a Super Bowl. Third, he got a new stadium built, which was the most important thing. Owners think another owner can do get a new stadium built. He did all three of those things. You know, Dan Snyder couldn't do any of those things. Okay, and Ersei was able to do that, and that gave him credibility in that room.

Yeah. I mean, he, I was actually surprised at his age when I heard it last night. I know that he has been sick. And he obviously had various points in his life of addiction issues. But, you know, when he took over for his father in the late 90s, he was a young man. I mean, you know, he and Snyder essentially ended up taking over, you know, he for his father, Snyder via purchase, you know, he was just a couple of years. years older than Snyder. I think I went back and did the math. Snyder was 34. Erse 65 when he died. Snyder was 34 and Ursay was, would have been like 38 when he took over. So he was a young man

taking over that franchise. And then one of the best things that ever happened to that franchise, they end up getting to draft Peyton Manning a year later. So the reason, The other reason we're bringing up the passing of Jim Mersey is that it was Jim Mersey among all of the other 31 owners that in October of 2022 during ownership meetings, he was the first to go on record and say publicly that there was merit to removing Dan Snyder as owner of the Redskins. And that got a lot of attention. And a lot of people think that that was really what started the ball rolling on the league potentially trying to remove him.

It was only two weeks later that we got the bombshell announcement that Snyder had hired Bank of America to consider a potential sale. It was exploring all options, including a sale. That was just a couple of weeks after the Ursaic comments. at the league meetings in October of 2022. Well, when he came out and said that, I wrote a column saying, this is it, people. This is the beginning of the end

for Dan Snyder. To have an owner break ranks publicly and come out and say what was probably the sentiment in that room privately gives you an idea that it's the beginning of the end for Dan Snyder. And it was.

that was that would that i think when he came out publicly and said that and he kind of stuck to it uh you know more or less uh he he said that uh he talked about the wilkinson report like a couple weeks later in an interview with the washington post when he said what's already come out is extremely disturbing and i agree with the process meaning he thought it should have been released Yeah. So, yeah, I think people are right when that was the first sign that there was hope that they would actually muster to courage to force Stan Snyder out. Yeah, because the conversation at the time was, I think everybody understood how despised Snyder was and how much the owners would have loved to have seen a change. but it was a, you know, there for the grace of God go I situation.

You know, there just were, there were too many that were not, were never, ever going to turn on their own, no matter how much they despised him, because it would have been a precedent for themselves maybe down the road. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know what would have happened without, you know, Ursae making the comments he made, you know, maybe that just sped up the process.

But this was heading in that direction, in part because Snyder had lost too much of the revenue machine. You know, two thirds, you know, by all accounts and all conversations back then, they had essentially lost two thirds of the fan base that had supported them just 10 years earlier. And most importantly, it was the biggest revenue. generating portion of the fan base. It was the fans and the corporations and the companies that spent the most money on the team. Now, they were always going to be one 32nd of the television revenue, and that's the big number. But we started to hear, remember, how all of the other revenue had

shrunk, and that, you know, they were starting to cut back on costs. I mean, players were complaining about, you know, food and travel. And so it may have happened anyway, but this along with obviously, you know, the women that came forward initially really got it going. When you think about it, Tommy, I mean, maybe ultimately because the fan base was already, you know, high tailing it out of town or away from the franchise. But the women that came out initially in that very first post story, the first 15 and then the eventual 40 plus.

That's what got everything started with Congress, with investigations, with him responding to some of those investigations by doing stupid things. Yeah. What a time that was. It was only a few years ago. It seems like forever ago now after last season's 12 and 5 NFC championship trip. It was a wild couple of years. Wild couple of years.

Well, rest in peace, Jim, Mersay, 65 is awfully young. I don't know what this situation is in terms of, what are, is he leaving the team to his team, to his kids? Doesn't he have a daughter? No. I don't know if he does or not. I don't know if the team will wind up for sale now or not.

I mean, NFL franchises obviously are very, very valuable commodities. and unless somebody in the family feels a commitment to own the Indianapolis Colts, I think it's probably likely they'll be put up for sale. Yeah, he's got three daughters, he's got three daughters. And ten grandchildren. Three daughters, ten grandchildren. All right. And his wife, he's been divorced from for the last 12 years.

years. Okay, we got to talk about the Knicks game last night, the Knicks Pacers game one. I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts on it. I do. We will get to that and a lot more after these words from a few of our sponsors. It can be hard for men to deal with hair loss, even though it's common. Luckily, I'm here to provide you with a solution so you don't even have to talk about it. Through Hymns, you can restore your hair by accessing their personalized hair loss solutions. Hymns provide you with convenient and quality access to a range of hair loss treatments that work all from the comfort of your couch. Hymns makes treating hair loss simple with doctor-trusted options and clinically proven ingredients. Choose from personalized chewable, oral, spray, and serum treatments to find out what works best for you.

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That was an excited Reggie Miller there. That was not a three-pointer to win the game, as it turned out. It was a two-pointer by Tyrese Halliburton that forced overtime. an incredible game last night by the numbers, the greatest comeback in NBA playoff history. We will get to that. But first, let me mention Window Nation. If you've been thinking about new Windows,

just give Windonation a shot. Call them at 86690 Nation. Go to WindowNation.com. They'll come out and give you a free estimate. They'll leave you with the quote. They won't pressure you. You won't be obligated to anything. You can shop it if you want.

That's all I'm asking is if you've been thinking, about new windows because you've got older windows and you want to reduce your utility bills, you want your home to look better, just give wind donation a chance to come out and give you an estimate. If you move forward with them right now, it's four free windows with every four you buy, no money down, no payments and no interest for two years, so you won't pay anything for your new windows until the year 2027. If you buy a house full of windows, they'll give you a free entry door. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. Mention my name, and they'll schedule a fast, convenient, in-home, and very free estimate. All right, I know you didn't watch the game last night,

you already told me that, but you did watch the highlights of the game. Let me just mention a couple of things about the game last night. If you don't know this, the Pacers beat the Knicks in the Eastern Conference finals of Game 1, 138 to 135. in overtime last night. It was the first time in 1,414 instances of a team being down by nine or more points in the final 55 seconds to come back and win the game. It was already the third time in this postseason, the Pacers have come from seven. down in the final minute to win a game. And it's the first time in NBA playoff history that a team's been down by 14 or more with two

minutes and 50 seconds or less on the clock to come back and win. Look, the comeback nature was unprecedented. It's never happened before. I've watched a lot of NBA basketball, a lot more than many of you have, and a lot more than Tommy has in recent years. And these comebacks and these record comebacks just seem to be piling up on one another. And the reason is, you know, we've talked about this before. You know, today's 20-point lead is, you know, 1995's 10-point lead. And most of it has to do with the three-point shot. The other part of it is, is that it's really hard to guard players today. They're just so good. But this,

game, Tommy, let me just say, before you get started, this game was insanely good from the beginning. I mean, right from the jump, the pace of this game was unreal. It's the way Indiana plays. They play very fast. They try to take the ball. It's like the 80s Lakers. They're taking the ball out of the net on a make, and they're coming right back at you quickly. They turn you over. They fast break off of rebounds. They like to play up-tempo, fast-tempo, and it's really hard to slow them down. The tempo of this game in the first half was actually incredible to watch. The shooting was off the charts. Both teams playing at such a high level of offensive basketball. Indiana's not the best defensive team left in this draw, and if they make the finals, they'll play in Oklahoma City,

leave the best defensive team in the postseason. But the game was great throughout. And then the Knicks basically took charge. I thought, interestingly, against a team that I, you know, even when it looked like the Knicks were going to win game one last night, Tommy, I was saying to my son, I'm like, I still think the Pacers are going to win a game in New York, and this is going to be a long series. You know, Brunson ended up with 43. Carl Anthony Towns, 35 in the game. And the Knicks had a 17-point lead with six and a half minutes to go. Interestingly, they built that lead with Brunson on the bench with five minutes, with five fouls, excuse me. He went to the bench early in the fourth quarter. Nick's holding a two-point lead.

He basically came back and they had a 14-15 point lead, but they built it to 17. And I've got a theory as to why that happened as well. But the insanity of the last few minutes Neesmith making six threes and scoring 20 total in the final four minutes and 45 seconds of the game. You know, the down 14 with 250 left, the down nine with 52 seconds left. And they just kept coming. The Knicks did it to themselves. They missed free throws. They turned the ball over.

But the Halliburton 3 at the end, I thought it was for the game when it went through. I thought for sure it was the game winner. then they picked up on the fact that his foot was touching the line. And it was the two. He gave the choke sign. But they had to go to overtime. I saw that. Yeah, they had to go to overtime and they won it in overtime.

You know, a couple of, you know, a couple of plays by a couple of near turnovers. And I thought the Brunson three at the end with 15 seconds to go when they were down three was just a terrible look, a terrible possession. They got it back and Anthony Towns had a shot at it. But this was a great basketball game start to finish and a very memorable basketball game. But I will say even before you tell me to stand down, I'm not going to consider this to be what it was, at least by numbers, the greatest comeback that I've ever seen in the history of NBA basketball. It was certainly a memorable game. You know, the Pacers and Nicks have had many of them in the playoffs over the years. Reggie Miller's, you know, comebacks in the garden.

There have been memorable games between these two teams in the garden. And last night was certainly another one. But, man, the big lead in the NBA, it just isn't safe anymore. And everybody that watches the game understands that, you know, a 17-5, point lead feels insurmountable with six minutes to go and it should be, but it just isn't. And it's one of the reasons you hang on and watch is because anything can happen in these games. But I enjoyed it. I thought it goes hand in hand with what we've seen throughout the postseason. We've seen some great basketball, some incredible finishes in this postseason, and last night just adds to the list.

Well, I can't obviously, honestly, talk about the game since I didn't watch the game. I just, you know, note the coverage of it was, you know, infatuated with one of the greatest games they've ever seen, one of the greatest games in playoff history, and it speaks to the short memory of the children that can't write about sports these days. Right. you know, and just because a team comes back from a 19-point deficit, does it make it a great game? It could speak more to the failings of one team than the accomplishments on the other. That said, I didn't watch the game, so I can't debate the merits of it with you.

I just wanted to ask you about this. You think Rick Carlisle is a good coach? Yes. Yeah, so do I. I think he is, too. He's wanted a few. But I think Tibbs is a good coach, too. Huh?

I think Tibbs is a good coach, too. Yeah, absolutely. But Carlisle is one of, I think, maybe 14 people who have won an NBA title as both a player and a coach. You know, it's a small club. I thought he was great when he was with Dallas. And are they well coached? Let me ask you that. Yes, they are.

Okay. Yeah, I like him. I like Rick Carlisle. That's all I'm going to say about this. You know, I had a conversation with Rick Carlisle about three years ago down in Charleston, South Carolina. I was at Lewis Barbecue. For those of you who know Charleston, Lewis Barbecue is phenomenal. Some of the best barbecue I have ever had. And, you know, you go in there and you stand in line. and typically it is a long line. And I walked in and I was standing right behind Rick Carlisle, who was in line. And I just, I introduced myself.

And I said, coach, and we ended up talking for like 15 minutes because the line was long. And, you know, I remember him also as a college player at UVA, you know, before he was in the NBA with the Celtics. But, yeah, I think he's a really good coach. Let me just say this. it was a great basketball game. You would have actually enjoyed the intensity, the pace, you know, add to it the garden atmosphere. It was an excellent basketball game. There are a couple of things that I just, you know, I love NBA playoff basketball,

and I've been obviously urging and advocating on its behalf here on the show for several years now. I just can't stand one thing about what I've been watching with the NBA in recent years, and I'll harp on it again. It's not the three-point shot at all. In fact, Neesmith going absolutely nuclear over the last 445 was unbelievably thrilling to watch. I can't stand ISO basketball. I can't stand it. You know, Jalen Brunson, he left the game early in the fourth quarter,

with his fifth foul and the Knicks holding a two-point lead. That lead quickly grew to 17 with him not in the game. Now, that's going to sound crazy that you're probably think I'm going to say, well, they're better off without Jalen Brunson. No, they're not. They're not better off without Jalen Brunson. But the basketball they play with Brunson in the game is primarily ISO two-man basketball. It's what you see with Luca Donchich, it's what you see with James Hardin, it's what you see at times with Boston, with Tatum, et cetera. I can't stand watching that style of basketball. I think that teams that rely a lot on ISO basketball, I don't think you're going to see one win four straight best of sevens in May and June. I just don't think. I don't think you're going to see one win

four straight best of sevens in May and June. I just don't think it's survivable over, you know, four series as the competition gets stiffer. The pacer's, their pace of play, the number of people that touch the basketball, you know, I'm not saying that Brunson and some of these people aren't incredibly skilled high-level players. They're incredible shotmakers and playmakers.

is brilliant to watch. But when you basically, for let's call it half the game, you don't make the other team work defensively. You let three to four players rest defensively on half of the possessions in a game. I don't think you can survive that. The best way for them to beat Indiana is to make Indiana work on defense

and to really, you know, to really, really use up a lot of energy guarding. And you don't see that against Luca. You don't see that against Brunson and the Knicks too often. And I'm not saying Brunson can't make really good passes off of, you know, the attention that comes his way. And Josh Hart is a great all-around player, and I love Bridges. I just don't like watching the Knicks.

And I'm not, I, Brunson, he had 43 last night, okay? He was 15 of 25, you know, from the first. floor. But you know, Kevin? Yeah. Kevin. There's no way he would have had 43, 50, 40, 30, 20 years ago. No way. Absolutely no way. Why? Zero chance. Why? Because he would have been guarded by good defensive players.

Well, he gets guarded by good defensive players. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 43 for that guy. That guy. That guy is not a great player. He actually is, Tommy. He's actually a great player. Yeah, he is. I've watched him.

I've watched the Knicks enough. Yeah. He's not a great player. You know who he's... He may have a great game for 2025, but he's not a great player. Well, I think we're getting into semantics here. I mean, he is a great offensive player, a great offensive player. A great offensive player.

player. He's an incredible ball handler. He's incredible at creating space. He has incredible mid-range. He's got incredible finish around the basket, whether it's a floater or getting to the rim. He's got a great three-point shot, step back or step into or feet set. He is a great offensive player. And I don't think anybody could have checked him 20, 25 years ago. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think anybody 25 years ago could check any of the great offensive players of today. Not even close. That's ridiculous. Not even close. I just don't. It's absurd. Let's stop the conversation. No, I don't want, I'd like this conversation. You're in a different universe. No, I'm in today. I'm actually in the universe that I think is the most logical,

but let me just also add to that. I would have loved to have seen like the Pistons teams of the 90s, late 80s, 90s, and how they would have fared with Dumars and Rodman defensively. But the Celtics of the 80s and the Lakers of the 80s were not good defensive teams for that era, let alone this one. I mean, watch Oklahoma City defend. That's like on steroids compared to the really good defensive teams of the 80s and 90s. You know, the interesting thing about Brunson is his game at times, I think if you watched it would remind you a little bit of Clyde Fraser, the way he plays.

Except Fraser, except Fraser would have stopped him. Okay. I just don't like watching that style of basketball. Who would have? Dennis Johnson would have stopped. Michael Cooper would have stopped. DJ and Michael Cooper were the two defensive players of those two teams in the 80s. I'll answer that. I agree with that. That's the list.

Yes. I agree with that. Now, would I like to see Dumars? Would I like to see him, you know, checking Brunson? Yeah, but there are plenty of unbelievable. The matchup that will be fun to watch in the finals, if it's Indiana O'KC, is Lou Dort, you know, opposite Brunson. Dort is a phenomenal defender, but OKC's got almost everybody can guard. Let me go off the rails for a minute here

And just talk about something about basketball that I like Okay Because most of the basketball I watch now is on YouTube Okay And you know I've talked before about How Larry Bird's Image has only been enhanced By all the YouTube videos

About people talking about him You know who else Has who else's status has been raised On YouTube Tell me who you've been watching. I've been watching a lot. Who? Who?

John Stockton. John Stockton is revered among players who had to put. He, I had, there's a video of a group of point guards talking about he was one of the toughest son of a pitches in the league. He was tough. One of the dirtiest, too, they talked about. He was a dirty player. But I told you, Gary Payton, who didn't like anybody. and who was a great defensive guard.

He had John Stockton induct him into the Hall of Fame. Gary Payton, I'd love to see Gary Payton at his best guarding some of today's players. Stockton was considered a great defensive player for the time, but I'm just going to tell you I don't know that he'd hold up athletically today, defensively. He'd be great offensively. He'd be great offensively. I think I'm not sure what moved.

John Stockton was his athletic ability. No. What made him great. It wasn't. But what I'm saying is that defensively at whatever he was, 6-1, 165 pounds, and not super athletic. I don't think he, I think the problem in today's game is he wouldn't be a very good defender. But I think offensively a more free-flowing game, he'd be incredible. He'd be incredible as the game really turned to even more, you know, ISO and pick and roll.

But he and Carl Malone in a pick and roll tandem, they were incredible. I mean, they were almost, you know, the gold standard there for a while in pick and roll basketball. Yeah, I know. And Carl, I always felt Carl Malone always got the bigger attention because he had the bigger numbers, at least in my world. But, I mean, I'm kind of like rediscovering John Stockton. Who's an absolute lunatic now? Okay, but off the court. But I've come to have a newfound respect for his ability as a player.

I always was a Stockton fan. I always loved Stockton and Malone. I loved watching them. I always hated the fact that the Wizards drafted Kenny Green one pick before Carl Malone in the 1989 draft. God, they just, you know, Over the years, they just never seemed to be always in the vicinity of like the next great player. I've always felt about Carl Malone that he's the one that physically looks like today's players. Because when you go back and you like compare, we've done this before and it irritates you, but it's fine.

I'm not minimizing Michael at all. Trust me, he's still my number one, he and Magic. But Michael was 6-6-195, and LeBron is 6-8. 265. There's just a bigger, faster, you know, stronger, you know, league. It just is. But Carl Malone always looked bigger and stronger than everybody else in the league. I'm going back just to check to see what he was. He was 6-9-250 when power forwards weren't necessarily always 250. You know, They may have been 2.30, 225. Like, what was Elvin Hayes?

Elvin Hayes wasn't 250, right? He was 6.11. I'll bet he went. Elvin Hayes was 6'9. Elvin Hayes was 6.9-230, Elvin Hayes. Carl Malone always looked like a player that you could fast forward into the 20 teens, into the 2020s. But I loved watching Stockton and Malone. Those were good teams, man. Good teams. Here's something that you probably would rather talk about than Nick Spacers.

David Falk, did you see what he said? David Falk said the following. I had it right in front of me, but my computer just froze. But I can paraphrase it. He basically said something to the effect of, I really like LeBron James, but if Michael Jordan cherry picked what teams he wanted to be on with two other superstars, he would have won 15 championships. Probably, I don't know about 15, but he would have won more than six, a lot more than six.

People are ripping David Falk for going after LeBron. I don't know what David Falk has against LeBron. Maybe people know that he's got something against LeBron. I didn't read that quote. Here's the quote exactly. I really like LeBron, but I think if Jordan had cherry-picked what teams he wanted to be on with two other superstars, he would have won 15 championships.

So I had it pretty close. I don't know why people are going nuts that that's a jab at LeBron. He was Michael Jordan's agent. and it's hyperbole to say 15, but if Jordan had gone towards the end of his career cherry picking, you know, I'm going to play with, I'm going to play with Malone in Stockton next year. That would have been another two championships, you know,

and maybe if he had done it, rather than coming to Washington, had picked, you know, two players in the area. I'm going to go play with Kobe and Shaq. you know, that would have been two or three more. He's not wrong. And LeBron cherry picked a couple of them, for sure. Do you have any comments on that? I thought that would be better than talking about last night's game.

No, I have no comments on that because, let's face it, like Wilf Chamberlain once said to Michael Jordan, Michael, they changed the rules to make the game easier for you. They changed the rules to make the game harder for me. All right, we've got a few more things. We'll get to them right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, who's hungry? I've got an idea for you.

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shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Sheehan. That's goldbelly.com code Sheehan for free shipping and 20% off your first order. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelly's back room at 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. I've been testifying to the glory of Shelly's for, well, since I've been going there for the past 20 years, you know, privately and publicly now on this podcast for a couple of years now. And we just saw the glory of it on Monday night with my cigars and curveballs event that

Kevin and so many others attended. And Kevin talked about on the Tuesday podcast about the great burger he had. Okay. He didn't have the special burger, okay? The special this week. and you can find the special on shelley's backroom.com on their website. One of their top specials this week is a burger, but like so many of their features,

it has a geographical twist to it. It's called the Athens burger. Oh. Okay, you didn't have the Athens burger. No, I was looking for the Argentina burger. I know. I know. We've talked about that.

This sounds like a little feta cheese on the burger. Well, the Athens burger has fed a cheese, bacon, black olives, and a sauce that I can't pronounce. Okay. Some kind of Greek sauce that I can't possibly pronounce. Okay. And that's what makes it the Athens burger. Also have pepperoni chicken sandwich, which would certainly be a special for me, and a Mexican taco salad with chicken.

And let's remember, for dessert, all. Always chocolate cake or key lime pie. Okay. And remember, while you're eating a dessert, you know, when you're done with that, you light up a cigar from one of the top 25 cigar-ficionado magazine selections, which Shelley always has available with a great staff to help you pick the cigar that's just right for you. Find out more at shelley's backroom.com. every time you do the Shelley's spot, it's lunchtime.

And I just sit here and I keep thinking, God, I wish Shelly's was literally in walking distance because once we got done, I'd just walk over there and get lunch. See, that's the thing. I mean, you can just go get lunch there. That's true. Yeah. That's true. Yeah.

All right. A couple of things. Dan Quinn today. Wait a minute. Yes. I want to mention something to you. Okay. This was posted by our old friend Matthew Paris.

Yeah. From the Washington Times, right? He's in New Orleans, right? He works for the New Orleans paper. Right. Covering the Saints. Among the no-shows at the Saints OTAs today? Yes. Chase Young.

Yes. Yeah. Well, he doesn't. He's a young at no-show. He might be doing a family feud episode. He might be. You know? He might be.

So. Dan Quinn today, Tommy, gave the commencement speech at Salisbury University, which is his alma mater. That's where he went to school. And the graduating class of 2025 was there to hear the head coach of the Washington commanders give the commencement speech. This is how he ended it. Which leads me back to where we started. and the four words, I wish I was told when I was in your chair.

And now I live by. So ladies and gentlemen of Salisbury University's class of 2025, let it fucking rip. Let it effing rip, Tommy. It's what I always say, especially on Tell the Truth Thursdays. Yes. I am certainly inspired, aren't you? He's a good guy. Always positive, always compete.

not bad advice, not bad advice at all. It's not Kurt Vonnegut's speech to, it's not Kurt Vonnegut's speech to the MIT graduates in 1997 when he told people, wear sunscreen. If I could offer you one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it. That's good advice. That's great life advice. All right. The Tush push yesterday, I know that I talked about.

this on yesterday's show. Real quickly, too, if you didn't listen to yesterday's show, John Wall was on with me. He was really good. I knew he would be because I've watched him be a basketball analyst on various programs recently. And he's really kind of grown as somebody who really gets the media and gets how to be good in the media. I really enjoyed it. I thought he, and I know a lot of you did too, if he didn't listen to it, it's about 30. 35 minutes with John Wall on yesterday's show. But the tush push lives. 22 to 10 was the final tally. The votes to ban it were too short. And apparently, I mean, there was tension among owners, among executives. I went through this yesterday, Tommy,

but basically, if you didn't hear it, you know, Philadelphia Eagles owner, Jeffrey Lurie got to speak to his fellow owners for nearly an hour, and he got to bring Jason Kelsey into the meeting as well to pitch other owners before, during, and afterwards. And, you know, it's a meeting that's supposed to be for owners and front office executives, not necessarily retired players. You know, it's funny because I think most of the teams that voted to support it are AFC teams, rarely have to face it. There were two NFC teams, the Lions and the Saints,

and the only team that is on Philadelphia's schedule this year that voted against the ban, so for the Tush Push to continue, was Detroit. Detroit plays Philadelphia this year, and they voted against the ban. Ten teams, Washington voted for the ban, as did the other NFC East teams. I think I would have liked to have seen the ban go through

just so we could not talk about it anymore. Now it will be the number one topic of conversation in Eagles games again. I'm so sick of it. I just wish that Frankie Louvo had jumped over the line of scrimmage one more time and that they had awarded the Eagles a touchdown in the NFC championship game because I think if that had happened, they would have easily gotten the votes yesterday to ban it.

I think you're right. I think you're right. So maybe that's what it needs to have. It would have been worse than sacrifice, maybe. Maybe. Since they lost anyway. All right. Nothing really else in sports. It looks like college football.

The NFL did not go to a receding of best record through worst record after the qualifying teams. But it looks like college football is going to go to something that seemed so obvious after last year's first year of the 12-team playoff. the five, you know, top conference champions are going to earn their way into the field, but the field, once you have the 12 teams, is going to be seeded one through 12 based on, you know, power. And that, I think, will make for a much better playoff tournament with better matchups. And I love what we saw last year, but I felt like they needed to seed based off the, you know, best teams to worst teams. So that's going to happen, it looks like. All right, anything else?

I got nothing else for you, boss. Nothing else? You're going to watch tonight, Mavericks and OKC? I may. Have you watched the FARV documentary that you told me to watch? No, I have not yet. I should have. I will make sure I watch it.

My son watched it and texted me and said, you have to watch this. I had no idea Farv was this bad of a guy. So maybe we need to watch that and talk about it next week. week. All right. I will talk to you next week. Have a good weekend. Okay, boss. I'm back tomorrow and on the show, Mike North, the man that put this schedule together. He joined us, you know, a few weeks before the schedule came out. He will be on the show with me tomorrow talking about how they put this whole thing together. Until then, have a great day.