The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jahan Dotson

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

Kevin breaks down Washington's trade back five spots and their selection of Penn State WR Jahan Dotson. JP Finlay and John Keim joined Kevin to discuss the pick and what's coming next in rounds 2-3 tonight. Colin Gutman was there last night in Vegas. He jumped on to describe the live draft scene on the strip.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. With the 16th pick in the 2022 NFL draft, the Washington commanders select Johan Dodson, wide receiver, Penn State.

There it was. They had traded back to 16, and then they selected Jahan Dodson, wide receiver, Penn State. He is your new. Washington Commander. Three guests on the show, a busy show. J.P. Finley is going to join us shortly.

John Kime will join us on the show today. And then Colin Gutman, Howard Gutman's son, Howard and Colin were both out at the draft last night in Las Vegas. We'll find out what it was like to be there, who got the biggest booze, who got the biggest cheers, what the Washington fans thought live of, the trade back and then the pick, et cetera. So we will do that with all three guests.

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. That's a big help as well. So let me cut to the chase here. I like Jahan Dotson as a player. If you've been listening to this podcast going back to college football season, I've certainly mentioned Jahan Dotson more.

than once and mentioned him last week when I had the piece of news that I, that I'd learned that Drake London was the number one wide receiver on their board by a lot and that I thought there was a pretty good chance if London was there, they would take him. I'm convinced that they would have taken him had he fallen to 11. I hoped they would take Kyle Hamilton. We talked yesterday about the possibility that, you know, there were people in the organization that were very split on Kyle Hamilton.

Clearly, they didn't think enough of him to take him at 11. That may be the one they regret. The trade back for Dotson, personally, I didn't think they got enough. There are multiple draft value charts. You know, there's the one from the guy from overthecap.com. He thinks Washington got a great deal. If you go by some of the older draft value charts, then Washington perhaps could have used another pick out of it,

maybe a fourth or a fifth rounder added to the third and fourth that they got from New Orleans. Martin Mayhew said after the draft last night during the press conference that they had two charts they were working with. One sort of reflected a deal that wasn't that favorable and the other reflected a deal that was. But these are subjective things. You don't go by the chart. You use it as a guide, whichever chart you use. It just felt to me in the moment that those are a crucial five spots, 11 to 16, and that a third, which by the way is a compensatory third,

so it's at the end of the third round tonight. And then a fourth that is in the first, I think 10 to 12 picks of the fourth round. But I just felt like it should have been more. But they picked up what they said they would pick up, which is more picks in a draft that they believe is deep and very strong in the middle portions of this draft with good players that, you know, a third rounder this year, even though, again, it's a compensatory pick. So for all intents and purposes, it's like an early fourth round pick. That really that's more like a third round or a second round pick.

And their fourth round pick that they picked up is more like a third round pick in most years. because we explained, you know, over the last couple of days, that there are more draft eligible players because of the extra year a lot of guys got because of COVID. But back to Jahan Dotson. I like the player a lot. I think they should have selected Kyle Hamilton at 11. I think Baltimore selecting Kyle Hamilton at 14 tells you that an organization that has done this as well as any organization, especially when it comes to defensive players.

I mean, you go back through Baltimore's drafts of defensive players, you know, away from last year, Patrick Queen from the year before. Before that, it was Marlon Humphrey in 2017, who's a great player. They had Matthew Judon. They drafted Zadaria Smith, even though he doesn't play for them anymore. And we know about the Hall of Famers on defense that they've drafted over. the years. To me, Baltimore is one of those organizations that you should be measuring yourself against over a long period of time now. They've gotten this stuff right a lot more than a lot of

other teams have gotten it right, especially with defensive players. I think Kyle Hamilton's speed number should have been ignored. I think he played fast and I think his length and his anticipation make up for perhaps a tenth of a second on a 40 time. I know that there's was some concern, and Vinnie Serrato mentioned this to us last weekend that he's not a big waitroom guy, and if he gets in the wait room and bulks up to 230, 235, that could be a problem because it could slow him down more. I like the player. I think the tape says all you need to know, the Ravens obviously felt the same way. Now, on Jahan Dotson, again, let me get to him. I love the player. This is going to be the second receiver in six drafts that I have watched.

a lot of that they have taken. The worst on the record prediction I have ever made doing any of these shows is that Josh Doxon is going to be a great receiver in the NFL. I predicted Josh Doxon would be picked before that 2016 draft by Washington, in part because my son was at TCU at the time. And I watched all of those games and I fell in love with Josh. Josh Doxon. He was tall. He had long arms. He had great hands. He was great in contested catch situations. He was, you know, not a blazer blazer, but he was one of those guys that just looked like a big-time NFL receiver with size. And the bottom line with Josh Doxon is that he didn't love football. You know, it wasn't a priority. He was young. He was a little bit immature, a nice kid, but it really didn't work out here or really anywhere else, at least. not as of yet. Jahan Dotson, similar last name, same initials. Penn State have watched a lot of him because my youngest son is at Penn State. He still is.

He'll be graduating next weekend, which will be phenomenal. I will have no more college tuitions in my life. However, I got to see a lot of Jahan Dotson. I paid a lot of attention to Penn State over the last couple of years. I went to several games. And I've loved Jahan Dotson.

I talked about him during the regular season. I talked about the game he had against Maryland and how I felt like he was going to be a really good player at the next level. You know, one of the comments I made during the year, I remember specifically saying he is small. I don't know what that means in terms of where his draft status will be, but he's smaller, but he can fly. He is incredible after the catch.

he's got phenomenal hands and I didn't even realize really what is catch radius or what kind of long arms he had. He just was a playmaker. Going back to all of the games last year and I went back and watched a lot of them again. I mean, go back and

watch the highlights of him against Maryland. Go back and Maryland wasn't great defensively, trust me, although they have a safety in Nick Cross that's probably going to get selected tonight. And they do have talent and speed at their skill position players on offense and defense. He shredded Maryland to the tune of 11 catches, 247 yards, three touchdowns.

Look at the game that he played in a driving snowstorm in East Lansing at the end of the year against Michigan State. This guy can play, and he didn't have a great quarterback. Sean Clifford was mediocre at best, and there wasn't a lot of talent around him at Penn State this particular year. Franklin had a decent team, not a great team, and not a lot of offensive talent other than Dotson. Listen to Ron Rivera talk about Dotson producing at such a high level with such mediocrity around him. Well, probably the biggest thing is, you know, when you look at guys and you break them down, you also look at who he's playing with. Okay. And, and, you know,

not to knock any of his teammates, but the quarterback they had was a good player. Okay, he wasn't a great player, but he was a good player, and he just seemed to make this guy better. And you saw the catches that he made, you know, I'm trying not to kill the kid, but you sit there and you think, well, he didn't throw a very accurate ball, but this guy was making him look good. You know, he caught over, you know, he caught for over 1,000 yards. I mean, he set records for Penn State. And you just know that there's more to him because, you know, it's not like there are a lot of weapons there around him. You know, his teammates were good, but they weren't, you know, I mean, you look at some of the other teams that have two, three, four weapons on the field at the same time.

And you think, wow, this guy, you know, they knew the ball was going to him. He was still making plays. And that's what gets you excited when, especially when you put the tape on and you watch game after game. and you see him catching 7, 8, 9, 10 balls a game. I mean, that's pretty impressive. Ron was right, though. I watched enough to know how much better Dotson made Clifford look, and the defense's attention was on Dotson a lot of the year,

and in the Big Ten, they played some good defensive teams. So this is a guy they wanted and they liked a lot. And I told all of you last week that Drake London is who they are in love with. He's the top receiver on their board. There's a big, big disparity between London and everybody else on their board. But the next group of receivers include Alave, Wilson, Williams, and Dotson. That was what I was told one week ago today, in fact. And we talked about that on the podcast last.

week or the over the weekend podcast, that Dotson was part of that mix of the next group of receivers that they liked, that if they didn't get London, that they would perhaps be choosing from. Now, I kept hoping that if they didn't get Drake London, that they would take Kyle Hamilton. And I think one of the interesting things about the draft last night is what would have happened, given that Ron consistently talks. and did it again last night. He said when asked about getting a polished receiver for Carson Wentz, he said, look, this has been important to us,

and we wanted to make sure that we've got weapons around Carson and that we can protect him. So they got a weapon last night and look for them to draft somebody to protect them before Saturday is over. What I wonder and what I'll ask JP about and John Kime about and get their thoughts. I wonder whether or not if one of the three

offensive linemen had dropped. Charles Cross was the closest to them at 9. He went to Seattle at 9. If Cross had been there at 11, given that the goal was to protect Carson Wentz and to give him more playmakers, I wonder if they would have stuck at 11 and taken Charles Cross.

Or if Evan Neal or Aquinas, had dropped. I mean, they were taken at six and seven. Cross got close at nine. These three offensive linemen were considered to be among the elite players in this draft that doesn't have a lot of elite players. So I think there's a chance had Cross been there at 11 that they would have taken Cross. I think, well, I don't think. I know that if Drake London had been there at 11, they would not have traded back. They would have taken Drake London. That was their fantasy draft scenario.

You know, if the draft fell the way they wanted it to fall, it was Drake London falling to 11. With no quarterbacks taken in that top 10, with just one quarterback taken in the entirety of the first round, but with no quarterbacks taken in that top 10, it became less likely. that London was going to be there at 11. Now, at 11, I thought when they made the trade to move back,

I thought that first, and I tweeted this out, I said maybe they think they can still get a lave at 16. And then when a lavee got picked by New Orleans, I tweeted out, I know they like Dotson, but 16. And this is where a lot of the pushback on Jahan Dotson is coming. from. A lot of you believe that it was too early based on a lot of these mock drafts. Look, these mock drafts were so different. You know, I'm not sure if I can find a mock draft with Jahan Dotson at 16, but you can find

Jahan Dotson in the early 20s in a lot of these mock drafts. And you see Jahan Dotson in almost every first round, you know, certainly with, you know, with Kansas City in Green Bay at the end of the first round. and you thought, you know, receiver was going to be an emphasis for those two teams. As it turns out, Kansas City traded up and took Trent McDuffie the corner and then took the pass rusher from Purdue and Green Bay with their two picks. Once again, they don't take receiver. They take Quay Walker, the linebacker from Georgia, and then they took Devante

Wyatt also from Georgia. Georgia had five defensive players going the first round. that's the most, I think, of all time or since 67 or something like that. Anyway, when Alave went, I was then thinking Dotson, but I thought maybe another trade back is in the works. And they had a chance to trade back. Could have been two tradebacks last night. Listen to Martin Mayhew talk about the second opportunity that existed. after they had moved back to 16.

We had an opportunity. Honestly, it's really funny because when Jahan was there, we talked about it, we had an offer to go back, we decided to turn the pick in, and all of a sudden the phone rang three different teams calling at the same time. And I had one phone and then the other phone, and I'm handing other people to talk to people. So there were opportunities there, and it's funny because coming into it, everybody was trying to move back.

But once we got around 11, 12, 13, people started trying to move up. So it worked out great for us. We're really excited about Jahan and what he brings to the table. Again, his versatility, his playmaking ability, and he's an awesome young man as well. So they had a chance to trade back, Martin Mayhew said, and pick up more draft choices, which was one of the big goals in this draft. But they didn't want to lose out on the possibility of Jahan Dotson. Maybe they trade back into the early 20s and have a chance at Dotson,

but maybe they don't. They didn't want to risk it. which to me tells all of you that believe that Dotson was somehow a panic pick because they didn't get a Lave or Williams. And that he wasn't necessarily plan A or plan B. I think he was part of Plan B. Plan A was London. Plan A was Drake London. And he wasn't an option because he was gone at eight overall. They could have drafted Alave.

They could have drafted Williams. and, you know, if Alave and Dotson had been there at 16, I'm not sure what they would have done. If Alave Williams and Dotson had all been there at 16, I'm not sure what they would have done. I know they liked Dotson. I think they liked all of these guys, and they were all kind of in this bucket of four,

Birx not included, okay? Treyland Berks not included. What's clear is they like Dotson more than Burks, clearly, because Berks was on the board as well. He went two picks later to Tennessee. but Dotson, Williams, and Alave were all guys that they liked, along with Wilson, too, guys that they liked that were down the list from London. London was plan A and that group of four was plan B.

Now, I'm sure they had them ranked in some order, but I think they were going to be pleased to get any one of the four if they had an opportunity to trade down a little bit and knew that one of those four would fall to at least 16. And maybe out of the four, the one that was most likely to fall, was going to be Dotson because he wasn't mocked, you know, anywhere near 16. I like the player. I don't mind the position, as mentioned. And again, I would have taken Kyle Hamilton at 11,

but I'm not feeling like somehow, You know, as many of you have said here over the last 12 to 18 hours, they can't do anything right. They mess everything up. I don't think they mess this up. I think Jamon Davis was a little bit of a reach last year. I think some of you would describe Jahan Dotson as a reach. I wouldn't. I think the more interesting part now is how do they get, if everybody's healthy, all of these guys out onto the field and get them all enough touches.

I think this is going to be the challenge for Scott Turner. He's got a real quarterback who can make all the throws. He's got now, if everybody's healthy, he's got Terry McClorn, he's got Jehan Dotson, he's got Curtis Samuel, he's got Logan Thomas, he's got Antonio Gibson, he's got J.D. McKissick. You know, they have, and they've got Cam Sims. You know, you can pretty much, you know, I can tell you right now what the receiver room is going to look like. now that, you know, they drafted Dotson. It's going to be Terry McLorne, Diami Brown,

Jahan Dotson, Curtis Samuel, and Cam Sims. Could there be a sixth, like a Dax Milne? You know, I know they like him as a potential punt returner, but Dotson can be their punt returner as well. But that's their receiver room right now. Am I missing anybody? I don't think so. McClorn, Samuel, Dotson, DeAon, Dotson, Deion. Tommy Brown, Cam Sims, and if they keep a sixth, it would probably be Dax Milne because they liked

them last year and they like them as a potential punt returner. But I think they'll use Dotson as a punt returner as well. Now we know, by the way, why D'Andre Carter wasn't an emphasis. I mean, they wanted London and London wouldn't have been a punt returner, but they would have used more likely than not Dax Milne as their punt returner or somebody else. I mean, they're, you know, they could have used, I mean, Danny Johnson's done kickoff returns. You've got Jared Patterson, who knows if he makes the team. I would think the three backs will be Gibson, McKissick, and Patterson again this year, although they really liked Jonathan Williams at the end of last year. And they could add a back in the draft tonight or tomorrow. Okay, so there you go. Thoughts on Jahan Dotson. I mean,

I'm not going to grade it. It takes three years to grade. I think if there's a regret three years from now about taking Dotson, it's going to be more a regret about not taking Kyle Hamilton at 11. Because I don't think Dotson's bust potential is very high at all. I think he's going to be a really good player at the next level. I really do. And I'm glad they have him. And in many ways, it's weird, but I've said this about Drake London.

It's not that I wasn't a big fan of London. London, but he wasn't my favorite receiver. Garrett Wilson was my favorite receiver. But I liked Dotson more than Alave. I think Dotson and Alave are kind of comparable. I don't think there's that much difference. Now, James and Williams, you know, I don't think he was going to be an option for this team anyway because it's clear they want to win this year. And Williams wasn't going to be ready more likely than not until October. But I do like Dotson. I like the pick. I like to pick. You know, I think, you know, for those that say, should have traded back and picked up another, you know, third rounder, you know, another third and fourth round combination for another

five spots and you still could have gotten them. That's not an unreasonable argument. It's possible that they could have gotten them if they had traded back, you know, a few spots. If they had traded back with, I mean, Pittsburgh didn't need to trade up, you know. Kansas City went up to 21 to take McDuffie. Would Kansas City have been a possibility of trading with Washington all the way up to 16? I don't know.

Maybe Green Bay wanted one of the receivers that were still there, Dotson or Berks, would they have traded up potentially and then maybe you lose one of them? I think they did the right thing. I think there was too much risk with a guy as talented as Dotson in a draft that was very unpredictable. Now, as far as what happens tonight, I think that they're going to go, as I said yesterday, if they got the receiver, they were going to look for that safety or that Buffalo Nickel position, which could be a linebacker as well.

But I think there are a couple of safeties. I think Jalen Petrie from Baylor is a possibility. I know that they like him. I think Brisker from Penn State. I think Nick Cross from Maryland is a player that I like. I don't know if it's a second round pick, but it's definitely a third round possibility for cross. But those are the players to consider it safety.

At inside linebacker, Nekobi Dean is still there. Nkobi Dean, five Georgia defensive players drafted in the first round, and one of them isn't Nekobi Dean. You could have made a lot of money probably two months ago, even a month ago, if you had said five defensive players from Georgia taken in the first round. And I'll bet that Nicopi Dean isn't one of them. them. At one point, you know, certainly late in the season, he was considered a top five to top

10 pick and the first player that would get selected from Georgia's defense in the draft. If you watch Nukobi Dean, if you watch Georgia last year, you know number 17 was all over the field. I personally love Nikobe Dean. I don't know why he's there. Maybe there are reasons for it. That, you know, only they, would know, the evaluators would know, that we wouldn't know. But I love Nkobi Dean. Is he going to be there at 47? Who the hell knows? In terms of other linebacker possibilities, the kid from Wyoming, a lot of people like Chad Mumma, and there are a couple of others as well out there. You know, you can also, you know, look at offensive guard or tackle, because remember, if there's a tackle out

there that they love, they could always move Cosmy inside. You know, that's always a possibility. But there are a couple of guards out there. The guy Parham from Memphis. There's a kid from Oklahoma as well, Hayes. So there are a couple of names out there at guard and some tackles out there as well. That could be possibilities for them tonight. But they've got two picks tonight, okay. They've got their 47 in the second round and then 98. And when I say that that is the end of the third round, the third rounder that they got from New Orleans, it is one of the compensatory picks. You know, I think there are like seven or eight compensatory picks added to the end of the third round. And that's the pick they got from New Orleans, a compensatory pick number 98 overall. So they've got 47 and 9.5. And they've got 47 and 9. And that's the pick they got from New Orleans. So they've got 47 and 9. 98. And remember, 47, you know, was 42. But the Colts rested five spots out of Washington as part of the Carson Wentz deal along with, you know, two thirds, one of which will be a second more likely than that next year. And $28.3 million in salary cap hit. Washington got a seventh back. But now Washington's got eight picks. And who knows, they could parlay their second rounder or a third rounder or fourth rounder. into more. The only round they don't have a pick-in is the fifth. Right now they have two-sevenths. So they've got a second, a third, a fourth, a sixth,

and two sevenths left in this draft. And we will see what happens here. Yeah, I like, by the way, they have two fourth rounders. Of course, they have two fourth rounders. They have a second, they have a third, they have two fourths, they have a sixth, And they have a seventh. So that's six more and two sevenths. So seven more picks combined with the one they made. It's eight selections right now. They started yesterday with six. A couple of other things from last night. What about just the draft in general last night? It was really exciting. I mean, the unpredictability of it, the trades, obviously the Philadelphia trades. Philadelphia being able, Philadelphia had a great night. You know, the division had a great night. The Giants may have, you know, rolled the dice a little bit on the person, Kavon, Tibido, but not the talent. And then they got one of those big tackles, Evan Neal. I think, by the way, one of the more interesting stories of the day yesterday was that the Giants aren't picking up the fifth year option on Daniel Jones. That is interesting.

And then Philadelphia. Wow. What a day they had. First of all, they take Jordan Davis at 13 after trading up to get Jordan Davis. Then they trade for A.J. Brown. And give him the deal 100 million, 4 years, 25 million a year. Terry McClorns had one hell of an offseason with all of these deals. I'll actually ask John about that a little bit later on when we talked to John Kime, just about where they are, because Ron Rivera actually had an interesting comment

about the A.J. Brown trade. Philadelphia is, you know, all of a sudden, Philadelphia on offense, okay? The quarterback is a question mark. Devante Smith, Heisman Trophy winner first round pick last year. A.J. Brown star. You know, I like A.J. Brown a lot. I really do. Jalen Rager looks right now like a mini bust at this point,

but he was a first-round pick. And let's not forget, they've got a really good pass catching tight end in Dallas Goddard and a phenomenal back in Miles Sanders. They've got an excellent offensive line when healthy. And then they've got Jalen Hertz. But Jalen Hertz as a runner last year and their rushing attack is what carried them to the postseason.

You know, they had a lot of injuries on defense, Brandon Graham, but they've got him back. They've got Fletcher Cox, who will play side by side, with Jordan Davis, one of the true freak inside defensive tackles we've seen in the draft in a long time. Derek Barnett, they have four first round picks along that defensive front. Two of them are older, understand that, and Graham and Cox. And then they've got Hassan Redick, they've got, you know, Darius Slay.

That team is a good football team on paper if Jalen Hertz can take the next step. And I thought last year at times Jalen Hertz was pretty damn good. He was not good in the playoff game. That is for sure when they got blown out by Tampa. But right now it's Dallas and Philly and then Washington in the NFC East. That's the way it's going to stay, I think, up until opening day. I just wanted to mention a couple of other things real quickly before we get to J.P. Finley, the first of three guests on the show. Number one is Chris Paul last night had an all-time NBA playoff game.

I'm sure nobody saw it, and I wasn't watching it, although John Dotson was watching it last night, said that he wasn't expecting to go at 16. He was watching the Sun's Pelicans game last night. Chris Paul had the all-time most made shots without missing in a playoff game last night. 14 to 14 from the floor. also went four for one for one from behind the arc, four for four from the free throw line, had 33 points, eight assists in 36 minutes as a 36-year-old in game six on the road to close out the Pelicans. And no Tommy and I had that conversation about Chris Paul.

He's not a top five-point guard ever. He's not, not in my opinion. But Chris Paul's one of the greats. And Chris Paul in a big spot last night, Devin Booker was back. That was huge for Phoenix. But Chris Paul had a big, big night. Secondly, the Wizards play-by-play voice, Justin Coutcher, of the last three years, Justin replaced the legendary Steve Buckhantz, my good friend.

Buck and Phil were the best, one of the best pairings locally of all time. And nobody was happy about Phil getting replaced. and then Buck getting replaced by Justin Coocher. Coocher called the games for three years, and he tweeted out just moments ago. After three great years calling Washington Wizards games on NBC Sports Washington, I've decided to pursue other opportunities.

I want to thank NBC Sports Washington, the Wizards organization, and all of the D.C. fans for welcoming me into your homes. You've got a fan for life and hope our paths will cross again. Wow. just three years. It sounds like it was his choice. I don't know if that's true or not.

It could have been a negotiation or contract negotiation thing. But, you know, there's just 32 of these guys in the league. I don't know where he's headed. But I do know this. Two things. One, I actually thought Justin called a pretty good game. I do. And that was hard for me to admit because I am very, very, very,

biased and partial to my friend Steve Buckhantz, who I think is one of the greats ever at doing this. But I didn't think Justin was that bad. I thought he was a pretty decent play-by-play guy. But with him gone, come on, Ted, Zach, just hire Buck back. I mean, it's ridiculous if you don't. Buck is healthy. He is with it. He is far, far from losing his fastball. He's been doing games here and there, you know, give them the gig. Also, one last thing, the NFL announced the first game on their schedule next year, or the first game that they've announced, not the first game. The first game will be the Rams hosting somebody on that Thursday night opener. But the first Amazon Prime Thursday night game, which will be the second Thursday of

the NFL football season, Thursday, September 15th, Chargers and Chiefs. So, if these games are going to start getting leaked out here over the next few days, I will have my mock schedule ready to go early next week. All right, J.P. Finley, when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Still plenty of prop bets at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie.com. Use my promo code Kevin, D.C. And they'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar, all the way up to a thousand bucks. plenty of NBA action and the NHL playoff action gets underway early next week.

Night one of the NFL draft is over. Jahan Dotson is a Washington commander wide receiver. J.P. Finley is with us right now. Of course, JP hosts 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on 10.6.7, The fan with Brian Mitchell. He's got a great podcast. Let's get to it. They picked Jehan Dotson after trading back. Your reaction is what?

I mean, to me, it's kind of like two different transactions. I like the trade. I might have taken James and Williams there. I really, really like him as a player. I think if a guy misses three or four games early in his career for you and then becomes a great receiver, like nobody's going to worry about the three or four games. But I like the trade. They needed more picks.

When you inquire Carson Went and then you refuse to rework his trade and that eats up all your cap space and you're not able to backfill those positions. They have depth issues. They have to get hopefully resolved by this draft. They had to trade back. They had to acquire more picks. So I was cool with that. I would have taken Birx.

Clearly, they wanted a receiver. I like Birx a lot. I know that maybe that's a little split out there. I like Dodson. I just don't know that I like him at 16. I would have preferred they keep trading back and then try to. against us. I think, you know, I think there was clearly like a tier of lineouts that they were comfortable getting out of. And it's not that I don't like the pick. I just not sure I like it

where it went down. Why do you think they didn't like Hamilton at 11? It seemed like they knew they had to acquire more picks rather than just not liking Hamilton. And I think the need for, I mean, they had two picks in the top 100 and three in the top 150. I think they just knew that the need for fix was greater than the need for safety. I think probably some positional value came in play there, even though they'll never admit to that. But maybe they have some questions internally. I don't know.

You know, I've heard that they're, like around the league, there's kind of some split opinions have emerged on him. And you kind of see it when everybody talks about him as a top five guy. and then he goes 14. I don't know that they didn't like. I think, I mean, Mayhew basically said it on Monday. The need for picks was going to drive a lot of their decisions. And I think it absolutely drove them at 11.

I wonder if they thought maybe a lot, they would fly to them at 16 or something. But I really think they liked Watson. It's tough because I don't think they get the benefit of doubt after the Davis trade or after the Davis picked last year. But they think, I mean, I'm sure you watched it, but like being in the room with Ron and Mayhew last night for their press conference,

it was an incredibly, incredibly confident and pleased group of football executives that took the podium last night. I think they firmly believe they hit a smash. And, you know, they got more picks that they wanted. They got a guy that I was told in top four on their draft on their wide receiver board. So that means one of the kind of the tier above them that had kind of emerged wasn't there, at least for them, which I find pretty interesting, and I don't know exactly who that would be. But my guess is Williams.

Maybe they had medical questions or something. they're excited about it. And they were excited about Jamie Davis last year. So they kind of put themselves in a situation where people are going to be a little skeptical. I think maybe there's some skepticism coming in because of last year's draft. And then you make a move where the rookie said, yeah, I was expected to go late first, early segment. And I was watching an NBA game. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, look, I know that they liked him too. They liked London more than any of them. I think you know that too. And I think, he was number one by a lot. But, you know, I was told a week and a half ago that Dotson was part of that next group that they really liked him. And I wasn't there last night like you were, but you could hear how giddy they were, you know, in playing back this sound this morning. And look, they were offered, you know, according to Mesa.

Hugh, they were offered opportunities to move back just a little bit further, but they didn't want to lose this guy. And, you know, look, there's something to be said, too. I was thinking about this actually after the show this morning. There's something to be said about they met with Burks. They only barely spoke to Dotson. Maybe the meeting with Berks, because they liked him as a player, was, you know, turned them off in some way.

They like Dotson. I like the player a lot personally, but I want to go back to 11. We both think that if London had been there, they would have stayed at 11 and taken Drake London. You agree with that, right? 100%. So do you think that if one of the three offensive linemen had dropped to 11, that they would have stayed there and taken one of them? That's a really good question. And kind of, like in the media room last night, started debating.

that at like, when did cross go? Nine, I think. Yeah, Cross went nine. Yeah, Cross went nine to Seattle. He was the last of the three. Maybe it's like eight or like what happens if he gets to 11? I think there's a scenario. I mean, hell, if you just take Ron at face value for two months, he's been saying, yeah, we got to protect Carson and get him playmakers. Exactly. That kind of

created a scenario where a lineman could have been on the board, and especially somebody that they have rated really high that flipped. Now, by drafting what is obviously a tackle, kind of would have created a tricky, you know, a little bit of an interesting scenario with Cosme kicking inside the guard probably. But I think they'll add, I think they'll add lineman now. I think one of the best things that I expect to happen is the, the myth they tried to spin of Pull Holcomb becoming your middle linebacker

will now be dispelled and they'll draft one. There's a ton of good off-ball linebackers kind of between I'd say 40 and 70s. I don't think one of those guys lands at them. The lineman thing is interesting. I don't know what would have happened

there, but I think they obviously wanted a wide out. Because you and I both know how much they love London. They ended up taking dots and probably ahead of where many expected him to go. And just go back and listen to what they said. I think you're probably on to something with Birx, Kev, because Ron afterwards explained

they only met with Dobson once because that's all they need. They learned everything they needed to know about the young man. And he told this story about he only met Luke Keekly once pre-draft, and he knew everything he needed to know. But when they drafted Cam Newton, he met with him a bunch because he really had a lot of questions. So maybe there's something there. Maybe, and I think maybe league-wide is a couple questions about Burs. I don't know.

But what I do know is a lot of what they liked about London was that it was something different from the rest of the group with the size and the ability to kind of go up and get it. Birx would have given you something similar. He would have been something different than the group you've assembled. Dawson's fairly similar to the group they've assembled. Yeah, and I want to ask you, I've got three more. I know you're running to get to your show. Number one, you liked the acquisition of the additional picks, and I'm all for that too, unless there's, you know, an absolute stud.

You don't want to pass on a stud if he's there. they wouldn't have passed on London. Who knows if they would have passed on cross had he fallen to 11. But my first reaction, even before I looked at some of the draft value charts, was it wasn't enough. You know, those are five crucial spots, you know, 11 to 16 in a first round. And I just thought, I don't know, getting a third round pick that's really near the end of the third round. and, you know, a top third of a fourth round pick wasn't enough.

And, you know, I heard Mayhew last night, and I saw all this stuff, you know, on Twitter last night. It's like if you go with the old draft value charts, they got fleeced. If you go with the updated analytics charts from the over-the-cap guy, they hit a home run. But even Mayhew said, you know, they used two charts. And on one of them, they didn't do well. And on the other one, they did very well. It really is a subjective thing in the moment. you know, and nobody follows the charts to a T, but overall, you think they got good value for moving down five spots?

I think two things. So I actually ended up, I asked both Ron and Martin about the value and the charts last night. Because I think it was, I saw the answer. So those were your questions. I saw the answers, but go ahead. Yeah. I just thought it was important to get some context to how they, you know, how do you arrive at that equation, right? Right. And I, the one thing, So, like, I, you know, I added it up. 11's worth 1250. The collection of picks they got back was worth about 1125 or something. I don't remember offhand. But I just think this draft is so unique because the drive value chart, the old school chart,

is so heavily skewed towards top picks being worth so much more than later picks. That's right. And I just think in this draft, that's not really applicable. Okay. I mean, because think about what really drives that draft value chart is quarterbacks at the top. So if you're going to be putting together a draft day trade for quarterbacks, that's why the fifth pick is so dramatically weighted against the 25th.

But this draft had no quarterback. I just, I think the valuations in this draft are just a little bit, different, and that's why I was, I mean, I've been strongly saying they need to trade down, and that means to be the top priority. But where I do agree with you, though, not to be agree or disagree, but the third being the cop-pick from the same. Yeah. I'm in the truck, so I don't have it in front of me.

Like, what is the saint's actual third? Like, you would have liked to get that, because I'm guessing that's like a 15-slot gap. Like, I don't know, but. I'm looking at it right now. So they have, they don't have another third round pick. That was the third round pick that they had. Maybe they get that up to Philly. Yeah.

Yeah. So they. How about Philly draft? Yeah, I know. I mean, I talked about that in the open here is that, you know, the Philly activity and the Giants as well. I mean, but Philly from a playmaker standpoint, I actually think, you know, Washington from a playmaker's standpoint is now pretty good. And so enough about the draft value chart, because the bottom line is if you use one of the old ones, the difference between 11 and 16 is like

250 points, you know, much different than looking at the true top five or six and the value assigned to those. And it just means that maybe they should have gotten a better third round pick or maybe an additional fourth, you know, if they had one or an additional fifth, which New Orleans had. But whatever. And they don't have a fifth, right? New Orleans does have a fifth. They have a fifth. No, Washington doesn't have a fifth. That's right. Exactly. So, you know, I think we both know that they like their playmakers healthy, like they love Logan Thomas and Curtis Samuel, and they do still have faith in Diami Brown. So even going into this offseason, I'm like,

I know they want to add a playmaker, but if they don't, it's not the worst thing in the world if everybody's healthy. But man, does Scott Turner, JP, you know, he's got a boatload to work with in this upcoming season. Like, I'm wondering how he's going to use all of them. Curtis Samuel and Dotson and McLaurin. There are a lot of similarities among all of them. And then you throw McKissick into the mix.

And really the only outlier in terms of the players that you know are going to be on the field is the tight end with his size in Logan Thomas. Like, how do you see Scott Turner? with an upgraded quarterback, no matter how we feel about whence he's an upgrade. And now a lot of playmakers. Yeah, I mean, I think offensive, you know, it's funny, everybody's screaming that the offense needs to be better. The defense was worse last year.

Yeah. I think. It's true. One, I wonder when you get Logan back on the field, because keep in mind, he got injured the first week in December. I don't know that that's a week one type thing, and we'll learn more about that. But I think everybody, John, Dotson last night talking about a versatility.

Rivera talked about him versatility. May he talked about a versatility. But there was one moment that I found really telling, and I think it was 48 a ask them, kind of, you know, what are Dotson's strength for you? Something relatively, like, generic to get a coach talking about the guy they just drafted. And Ron immediately, like, no hesitation, like, inferior route run. And to me, that just means he's going to be their slot guy. And I think that's where he projects anyway.

Right. And what Scott does a bunch of, though, is move his receivers around. He does, yeah. They want a bunch of stacks and bunches and stuff. So I think there'll be enough movement there. It's funny. You talk about the weapons, and I agree with you. They have weapons, but I think a ton of it hinges on Curtis Samuel's help and

Logan Thomas's knee. They're really excited about Samuel. They think he could have a monster season for them. I know a lot of fans are skeptical about it, until they see them on the field. And my skepticism is probably more Wents-related, but they have a lot. The offense should be significantly better than last year,

last few years, really, and especially if you can get some steady play at the quarterback position. All right, what's next? What are they going to get tonight? And they've got two picks now tonight. Give me some names. Kind of weird, but the Penn State safety. Brisker.

Yeah, Brisker. I think could make a lot of sense. I think they got to solve that middle linebacker thing. I really like the Georgia kid, Nicote McGee. So do I. There's a Wisconsin kid, Chanel, that tested off the charts. So big, strong guy. I wouldn't mind a corner.

The corner out of Houston, my boy Pete Wells, I think it's Marco Davis. I think eventually they need to draft a running back, but I don't see that happen until tomorrow. I think they'll move again. I don't know that they'll take both fourth rounders. But I like Dean a lot. We had an interview with him and just an impressive young man. I talked to people from Georgia. And, you know, that Bulldog team is obviously loaded, loaded.

But more than one person told me that Dean was the best player on that defense. And maybe that's kind of a situational thing. you know, being a leader and all that. But I think he steps in right away. I think he helps them as a player, but I think he would help James Davis a ton and takes the pressure off there. I don't know. It should be a fun night.

God, I feel the same way about Nikobe, Dean. I'm so surprised. Like, if we went back, I was saying to Brendan this morning, if we went back just two months and somebody said, five Georgia defensive players go on the first round, what are the odds, Dean isn't, one of them. It would have been, it literally would have been like plus 3,000, you know, because many people thought, you know, during the season, he'd be the first defensive player

selected. I think sometimes you just got to watch the games. And number 17 was everywhere for them all season long on a great defense. And that would be a great pick. I like your brisker thing. I think Petrie's another one from Baylor. I like Nick Cross from Maryland, too. I don't know. Yeah. You know, you didn't mention quarterback, but let me just ask you if at 47, let's just say Corral, which Jeremy Fowler reported about the other day, them kicking the tires, you know, and Malik Willis are there.

Do you think there's any chance? I don't. I wouldn't, like I'm not saying it. I was very definitive that nothing was going to happen at 11 or in the first round. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but I'd give it like a 10%, 15% chance of happening. I don't know. I know that members of that staff really think Willis can become a heck of a player down the road. I just, I honestly would like it, but maybe I'm a button for punishment.

to me, not reworking Wentz's deal tells you a lot about the marriage of the commanders in Carson, Lenz. And it's a marriage with the pre-nup, dude. And I think it wouldn't be the worst idea to plan for the long haul. And I think either of those guys, Corral, both of them have the kind of personality questions. I've never met Corral. I got to meet and talk to Malie. And I was impressed behind him, but, I mean, it was 10 minutes in a hotel lobby.

So what did that really, you know, it's hardly a character assessment. What scares me in the league will, and I said this all throughout the process, is he was playing at Auburn, and he transferred to Liberty. Like, these guys transfer all the time, and you go from Auburn to Nebraska, or Auburn to Arizona. Or Ohio State to LSU. Yeah, Joe Burrow. You could have stayed in a Power 5 situation.

I just don't know how I go to that. All right. One last one, I promise you. Who's the pick that you think they didn't make that they could have made at 11 or 16 that you think they'll regret not making? At 11, James & 1st. I really really like that.

Thank you for doing this. I'll talk to you soon. We've got to get out and hit some golf ball soon. As long as you'll mind me, spraying it right off the teeth. Yeah, Mr. 18 handicap, and all of a sudden he ends up with like seven pars on the round. I'll talk to you later. See ya. John Kime next right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Inside their own 15. Clipper with time, over the middle. Dotson with through. Now past the 50. Doxon is. Go. Six-yard touchdown for Jahan Dotson. All right.

Joining us now, John Kime. Of course, John covers the team for ESPN. Everybody knows that. John underscore Kime on Twitter. John's got a podcast as well. The John Kime Report, that's an excellent podcast. Let's go over last night and then we'll talk about tonight. So what was your reaction to the tradeback and the selection of Jahan Dotson?

start. We'll go with a trade back first. First of all, I knew how much they liked Chris Olive. So when they traded that pick, I'm like, okay, you like, there's someone out there that they really like, and you're comfortable enough that you're trading that, knowing that there are a couple guys that you like who could be there later. I really liked that they got those extra picks because all along, I'm not alone in saying, I was not alone in saying that you needed add picks in round two through four because that's where there was intense value in this draft. And every time I would talk about this draft, Kevin, it would be, well, in rounds two to four, you could get, there's an offensive lineman they like, and there's a linebacker they like, and there's the Buffalo Nickel guys they like, and there's a safety or a linebacker, and there's this guy they like there. Well, all of a sudden you added up, and there's like five guys that you think, or five areas that you think you should address, and they had two picks.

So getting those extra picks is huge. When they trade it back, the first guy I thought of was Johan Dotson, because I knew they liked him as well. And I would mention him on occasion, like, if they trade back, Jahan Dotson, that's a guy to watch, because I know they liked him. So I wasn't surprised. I will say that I'm surprised at 16 that that's where he went. And so that part, I get. I'm like everybody else, and I think he's a good player. Like I said, I thought he would go.

I thought they traded back into the low 20s. That's where you'd get him. So it was a little bit high, but I know that there was some calls back to move back, but the concern was, the fear was, would you still get him there? And I think they did not feel confident in that, which is why they pulled the trigger at 16 rather than moving back again and taking a chance. Because I think the other guy they would have taken it in that scenario with Traylon Burr. And he would have been gone too.

So you would have lost one of your top season targets. Yeah, I think we're in agreement with that. I mean, I knew they liked Dotson as well. I mean, you agree with me and JP, who I just had on as well, that London, if he were there at 11, they would have taken London. Yeah. That's a million percent accurate. Yes.

That my mortgage on that. Now, here's the other thing. That's like, well, what if one of the needle had fallen there, well, that, okay. But short of that, the receiver at 11, they absolutely would have stayed there to take. would not have treated out, would have been Drake London. Yeah, completely agree. Now, what I asked, I talked about this on the radio show, and I asked JP this because I think this is interesting.

What if one of the offensive linemen, let's just say it was cross, let's say he doesn't get picked by Seattle and doesn't get picked by the Jets, and he was there at 11. Do you think they would have taken him at 11? That one is harder for me, because I know they liked him. I definitely know they liked him. but did they like them enough to go in that direction? I'm, for our NFL-Mason-Marchraft on ESPN, I had that choice, and I still went with Drake London,

because I knew how much they liked him, and I knew that they wanted to add a weapon. And I had talked to some people over there earlier in the process who were like they didn't want to grab an offensive lineman in the first round, unless it was one of those like Neil or Aquanou. But I think you didn't, you know, so I would lean toward London, but I'm not positive on that, because I know that he would have fit a big hole for them. You could plug him at the right side, and you can slide Tosley into right guard, and you can feel good about the athleticism at right guard,

replacing sheriff, and you can feel good you have a couple young linemen to build around. So let's... But I still would have leaned toward London, because which is what I picked in our mock draft. Because what? I'm sorry? I fit in our mock draft. I faced that choice, and I still went with London,

so I would have leaned there because... Right. I mean, the value there, and plus I knew. But what I'm saying, but what I'm saying, if London was gone, but Cross was there. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm sorry. I think they would have taken Cross. I think they would have taken Cross.

Yeah, okay. That's, no, there is no doubt in my mind that London was the pick at 11 if he was there. That was their fantasy. That was the, you know, what I was told if the, they're hoping the draft breaks right. And breaking right meant London dropping. to 11. Now, when they made the trade back, my initial thought was what yours was. It's like they think they can get Alave at 16. But then when Alave got picked, I immediately thought of Dotson, because I knew he was in a group with Alave and Williams and Wilson. And then Williams,

you know, Wilson was already gone. Williams went. But I really do, and I talked about this in the open of the show. I don't think this was what some people. are describing it as, which was, oh, well, you know, they were down to, you know, Dotson and Berks, and they didn't love them as much as they loved Williams. I think they loved Dotson. They didn't love anybody like they love London, but I think they were, they absolutely thought, okay, 16 and if Alave's gone, Dotson's fine. I'm not actually totally convinced that if Dotson and Alave had both been on the board at 16,

it still wouldn't have been Dotson. they really like Dodson. Now I would always say I think they had a lobby a little bit ahead. Okay. But I don't know

like what was the gap there. I don't know that there was a big gap if one exists. It could have been like a 1A and 1B for them. And it could also depend on day. I know how much they were like and I know that they felt like

the two most pro-ready receivers were Olavé and Doxon. And, And they loved Dodson's pro day. Like, where they were there, and it wasn't just the reason

they took him was the pro day, but they had a lot of people at that pro day, and they had a lot of them, and I know how much they liked Olavee, you know,

when we saw this stuff from his pro day. So I can't say for sure they would have taken him. I do think they would have taken Olave. But part of that is because I think maybe maybe it's spent more time

talking to people about Olave, right? And that, you know, maybe that's why, I think that, but I know that they really, really like him. And here's the other thing, Kevin, when you look at it, as you know, it's not just Alabe versus Doxon, it's a lobby versus Doxon and a third and a fourth round pitch.

Right. Like in this draft, those picks could yield starters. Because it's a deep draft in that area. So you could possibly have picked up, you know, you pick up your starting slot, and then you get a possibly get offensive lineman third round. and what else you get in the forethought? I don't know, but like, it's a guy who should, if they draft right,

should be a big contributor, or at least a key contributor for you at some point. So if they draft right, so that's how, you know, is a lobby is not that much better than Doxon to warrant passing that possibility up. But you're right, like it's not, it was not, there was not, if there was a gap between it,

it's not, between them, It wasn't pretty big at all. Yeah, and I think also the proof that this wasn't some sort of, oh, we missed out on Alave and Williams after missing out on London, which we never had a chance to get. We need a wide receiver. We're going to just, we're going to draft one. No, because if that were true, they wouldn't have risked, you know,

they would have gone ahead and risked going back a few spots with Burks and Dotson if they didn't care as much about Dotson as they did. did. I mean, they wanted Dotson. They didn't want to lose Dotson there. They'd gotten the third and fourth. They could have traded back a little bit more and maybe still got Dotson or they may have risked losing him and settling for Barks because I think what's clear is they like Dotson more than Burks. That's obvious. Yeah, they obviously because they picked him and Barks went two picks later. Yeah. But if they thought, and here's your joke thing, like they could have traded back, but let's say, let's say Green Bay at 22 gives you that offer.

Well, there's certainly Berks went before then. Right. And there's no guarantee that Dodson gets there. And I know, like, everybody kind of goes off those mock drafts, but the one thing I learned with these receivers in this year is some teams really like a group of receivers. Like, there were some teams who did not like Olive in Wilson, not to the degree that, like, certainly that this team did. and because they weren't, they didn't feel like they were physical enough.

That's that same group of coaches like Dotson a lot. And so, like, you know, just because it says in a mock that this is where they go, we don't know, the Patriots took a guy, the Patriot took a guy with their pick who was projected as a third rounder, so you never know. And I didn't even say they're right or wrong. You just don't always know where these teams have. And I did talk to someone who said a little bit high, but they do like him. So we'll see.

So I've tried to answer this. I asked Ben this this morning. I asked JP this. I'm going to ask you this. Why not Kyle Hamilton at 11? Speed. Is that the only reason? That's the big reason.

Okay. I don't think it's a good enough reason. I think that's the one. Well, let me follow up. if I were to tell you that there's going to be a regret about this particular moment in the draft last night, three years from now, what's the regret going to be about? Well, I think you're going to say Kyle Hamilton. Yes. And that's possible.

But I think the one that I would wonder about a little bit more because it's all about health is James and William. and because I think he's more of the game breaker that teams really would love. I like Kyle Hamilton, but the speed, if you want, now here's the other thing, like, because there were times where, you know, what you hear is where if he didn't take the right angle on a play, that it was going to be a big play, because, you know what I mean? Like, he had to do things right now. Having said that, I think to be there at 16. that he's a different value than if he's there at 11 where you can trade back and get some picks

and then still get him. I think that would have been a good move. But, you know, so that anyway, but that's it. It's a speed. That's why he felt it. That's why he felt that what is it, pick 15 or whatever is. That's why he fell there is because if he would run a 4-4-9, he's going to be there at 11, and they're taking him if he's there at 11.

Or he's always higher than that. but the speed is what concerned, I think, him and this team and others. So he fell a little bit further because of it. I think because the Ravens took him, it opened eyes because they have a great record. It's the same thing like, again, with the guy the Patriots took who was projected as a third rounder. Imagine what would be said if this team took him. Well, because Belichick has the rings, you think, oh, wow, what does he know that everybody else doesn't? and I think because the Ravens took them, it's like, okay.

And so that you could be right. You know, you could be right. Like, I like Kyle Hamilton, but especially that Buffalo Nickel Rolls. But I think, but what I've always known, and you probably knew this too, like there are guys there who maybe there that they hope that 47 that I think could be, that they like a pretty good amount as well. All right. I'll ask you about that in a moment.

Yeah, look, it's not just that Baltimore, draft him. Baltimore drafting him just made it more obvious to me. And oh, let me just be clear on this. I like Jahan Dotson. I think he's going to be a good player. Look, you're, you're a big Ohio state fan. So you've seen a lot of Dotson. My son's at Penn State. I've seen a lot of Dotson. And I love, and I love the player. We talked about him during the season. And I really like the player. And I don't think they're going to regret taking the player. I really don't. But I just wonder if Kyle Hamilton blows up into one of those Baltimore defensive, not just stars, but potential Hall of Famers one day.

I'm sorry, that's it. But what I also like about Kyle Hamilton, I thought the same thing about Gerwin James. Now, I think Gerwin James is better. We're coming out. I thought Gerwin James is better. But what I liked about both those guys, I think they're, you know,

I get the word cultures that use so much here, but I think they're really good guys to have on your defense. because I think it's everything you hear about them as far as leadership preparation, in addition to the fact that they're really good players, I always like those kind of guys. So I would have been a okay with Hamilton. But I know that the speed was a concern at 11. Again, it's why he was still there when the Ravens picked. But yeah, no, I mean, he could very well be that guy.

He's got a lot of really good traits. But I think, you know how he's like if you, if you see the 40 time and then you see some plays on film, that's like, oh, is that the reason, right? Then it's going to, it's going to cause. Yeah, it just didn't show up on, it just didn't show up on tape with his long arms, with his anticipation, and I don't know, he played fast. There were times that it did, but there were also times where it's like because he was very smart and played with really good anticipation, which usually comes from study, you know,

people just know, oh, I know he's going to here. You know he's going to hear, because you've studied. And that's where I felt like he had a big. edge. And I also thought that he'd be smart to handle that that Buffle and Nicol roll, you know, which is, which is, you know, the hybrid linebacker safety for them. And he would have been really good in that role. But I think, like, I think we'll talk about in a minute. I think other guys can be too. So it always depends on what do you do now.

But yeah, no, I like Kyle Hamilton. I think, you know, the funny thing is, in this draft, like, there's a lot of guys that you like. And I can see, and there's no one that I would say, oh, I love that guy. You know, there are you know, because I don't know that there are that many of those types in this draft, but you can see, like, okay, this player, I like this and this about him, and I don't like this about him. You know what I mean? That's what this is.

Yeah. So, like, there's a lot of things I like about Jahan Dotson, and there are things I like, okay, I have questions about him. There are things I really liked about Drake Lund, and I have questions about this. Same with Oliva. You know, just because you want to Ohio State doesn't mean I don't see, don't hear the question, don't see the questions, you know? Yeah.

I think he'd have been good. I also know some people felt like it wasn't physical enough. All right. So what's next? What happens tonight and tomorrow? So I think today, I would expect them to find someone who can fill that Buffalo nickel roll. And that probably at 47.

So whether it's Jaquan Bricker going at two for two with Penn State, that's a possibility. If he's there, I would put, you know, I would think that he's a strong choice. There are also linebackers, they feel, can fill that role. So you have a guy like Troy Anderson from Montana State. I don't know, 47 will be too high for him. It might be a little bit, but the kid's really athletic, and he's played multiple positions. I think he's, you know, he's pretty smart.

I think he could handle that. It sounds like a guy that they feel could handle that role. He, by the way, was the kid that, he was the kid, by the way, that played quarterback also, you know, before he switched to linebacker. Yeah. And I don't want to lose this thought. I remember Ron Rivera, I asked him about Logan Thomas, and I said, how much does it help him that he was a quarterback?

And he went on, his answer was five minutes long about how important that is. So I think that that's really an interesting observation about Troy Anderson. It might be too early, certainly in the second round. But, yeah, he was a – Yeah, go ahead. go ahead. Offensive line is the other possibility, maybe more so in the third round, depending on who's there, depending on who's not there at 47.

But offensive line is another area they'd like to address. Because, again, the things that Rivera has kept saying, protect the quarterback, you give them more weapons. They got the weapon, now you've got to protect. Yeah. I also think the point that you made about Johan Dotson being super pro-ready is a really interesting one, because it just kind of goes hand in hand with 2022, which they think they're close.

They want guys who are ready to play. They're not, you know, they want to fill their needs. They want to get the best possible product out there because they think it's six and six last year. They got derailed by COVID. They got derailed by injuries. And that they're not that far off and with a more mature, you know, young defensive line coming back. And I'm talking about, you know, mental.

and maturity as much as physical maturity, and, you know, adding a few pieces and with a quarterback that can make all the throws that they can contend. And with Dotson, like you said, he is pro-ready, you know. And by the way, he's a punt returner, you know, if they choose to use him as that. Yeah, and I think they're exactly right. But I think it also says, Kevin, too, that, you know, because the other thing Rivera talked about is your three is a big deal.

So how close they really think they are to being an NFC contender versus just NFC East, you know, that's debatable, right? And I don't know how much they, but what they do know is you've got to take a jump in year three. Yeah, that's right. Do you discount quarterback tonight completely? Probably. I would be surprised to say this. I'd be really surprised. What if?

Would you? I do. I don't know how they feel about these people other than Ron saying, you know, on Monday, that they're, you know, if they didn't pull off the trade for Wentz, there was somebody that he specifically, you know, liked and that would have been, you know, considered, you know, very early in the draft. And then, you know, the Jeremy Fowler report about kicking the tires on Matt Corral. Now, you know, I would say that, yeah, I would be very surprised. because all along I've heard exactly what he said publicly, which is later in the draft, developmental guy.

Because you know what did Carson Went to have a problem with him silly? Drafting Jalen Hertz in round two. Why would you trade for him, pay him, and then repeat that scenario? Well, because he might not be here in 2023. That may be, but if you're trying to maximize this guy, then like are any of these quarterbacks good enough to risk? And listen, I say that. If they're not, the answer's easy if they're not, John.

If they don't like these guys and they don't think any of these guys have massive upside, you know, in the future, then the answer, of course, is no. But if they actually think one of them has a big, big, boom, you know, scenario somewhere down the road, well, I personally think they'd be foolish not to take one of them. Yeah, and I don't, I don't, I would say this, like, I don't think it'd be Matt Corral, but, you know, not based on what I'd heard. But I also would be, like I said, I mean, nothing, nothing I've heard would suggest that they're like, if this guy's there, you can't, you can't pass him up.

But I think there, there may be a quarterback that they really like. they say, how can you pass this guy up? I don't think it be that, and I don't think it'd be in round two. So that, you know, I just, it's not what I've heard. So if they do it, I think it's also, yeah, and I think it, listen, this is as many people say, it's lying season, smokescreen. Now, I don't, what I, what I try to do is like, okay, what's been, what I'm hearing over the years, does it match up with the actions later?

like how much of it doesn't match up. Because if it doesn't match up, then you know that you're not being told accurate thing. By and large, it matches up what you hear. Sometimes there might be a little bit off here and there as far as like, you like Jamie Davis is 19 high, maybe in a majority. But you know they like the guy, right? Same with Dodson. And so, like, everything I've heard is quarterback, you know, day three, developmental guys, you know, a guy that I would watch is Carson Strong. but, you know, if they did that today, I would be surprised.

And I think you know me, like, I think to say 100%, they knew 100%. Yeah. 100% at the first round, they were going to do it. That was a lot. Defense of that, they weren't going to do it either. But in the second round, I would definitely be surprised if they did it, and I would be surprised, depending on the quarterback's there,

if it was, if it was Matt Corral, too. So there would be two surprises there. Not that they just like them, but I think there's other guys. that they like more. Two more. Number one is this. Do you think that Ron's comments about the A.J. Brown

deal with respect to Terry McLorn, he said, you know, I don't think the Brown deal impacts the Terry McLorn negotiations. They're different players, different styles. You know, it's almost like he was negotiating a little bit last night in public.

So what do you think the result of that? is with Terry now that we've got another one on the board for $25 million a year? I mean, he's going to get paid. I think the one thing, I think this is actually a good thing because now you start to set the market for that group. And I think the key thing is the big thing you hear, even like with John Allen last year, it was always, what's the comp?

And I think they're big on that. I don't know who the comp is for them with Terry. but that's the big key. So, you know, I don't know that it's necessarily A.J. Brown, because I don't know that they seem as the same, as you said, they're different players. They are in the same group. Yeah, they are impact-wise, yes.

Right, exactly. And they're not from the same class. Like, you know, they came out the same year. So I think, like, I think they get it done. I think Terry wants to be here, which is why he's out at these practices. He could have easily said, Like, I'm not going to show up on, you know, this.

He wasn't scrubbing his social media for Washington stuff. He wasn't doing. Right, right. Yeah, because he's an adult. Yeah, exactly. And I think that gives them a really good chance to get this done. And I think, I think ultimately they will. And I don't, you know, the sense I get from them is that, you know, I don't think

he's someone like, like Debo Samuel really wants to get paid. And I don't think that they're all going to get paid. paid. But I think there's a, I think there's a different level of understanding my sense is with McCorren about what he should be getting than maybe some other receivers. That would just say that. Let me just be clear about one thing because I've said this before. A.J. Brown's a better receiver than Terry McLaren. They're in the same group in terms of their impact. But if you told me right now that I could have A.J. Brown for Terry McCorn straight up, I would take A.J. Brown. I would say that, and I would say that's the consensus

of what you hear from others, too. Yes, so I think maybe Ron, I hope you, I hope that he just meant different styles, et cetera. You don't want to put Terry down in relationship in relation to A.J. Brown, yeah. But Terry

is going to get 23 to 24 a year when all of a sudden done. And I don't think they want to pay that much, but it's going to be that if they want to keep them. And you know what's funny, Kevin, this is why, like, these receiver classes are so deep anymore that it's like it's really hard to justify paying receivers that much money when every year there's a bunch that come out that

you say are pretty good. Now, having said that, there's always a different level of guy. And I think for here, Terry is a different level because it is important to the fan base, the organization, you know, who he is. I mean, it's not, like for him that goes beyond the numbers, it's the impact that he makes here. And so I think for them, like, you know, you're not going to, you can't let Terry McCorn walk for a few million and take another public relations hit from your fan base. And just that's a risk you just can't take. And I think they understand that.

I think they understand that. All right. The last one is just, I want your mock second round pick. I won't make you, you know, pick the third rounder. Okay. Give me the mock second rounder. Jayquhar and Brisco. Penn State.

Penn State. Back to back, Penn State. That's that. I like Petrie, if he's there from Baylor. But I like Brisker, too. I also like Nick Cross. Do you have any sense? I tried to find out this and did not hear back from anybody.

You don't have any feel for it? No, I hear more about Brisker. Okay, all right. Sounds good. Thank you for doing this, as always. Have a good weekend. Thanks, Kevin. You too.

What was it like in Vegas last night? How many commanders fans were there? We'll find out next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. First down at the 49, opening series for Penn State here in the second half. Blayfing, Clifford, shuffling, delivers wide up with Jackson. All right, let's finish up this post-round-one draft show by heading out to Vegas and talking to Colin Gutman. Colin was on the show with us previously talking Nat.

He is the son of one of our favorites, Howard Gutman. Colin hosts a radio show on 9-10, the fan in Richmond that you can hear Saturday mornings at 9 a.m. He's a big DC sports fan, huge baseball fan, but he was out at the draft last night in Vegas. And I'm sitting there last night watching it. And my wife doesn't know much about sports. She doesn't care that much about sports. Maybe that's why we are the right match. It's the opposite.

It's a track thing. And she just was looking at this going, my God, how many people are there for this? And I said, I think it's over 100,000 people. And then, you know, they got the cutaways of everybody dressed up. And she's like, my God, who would go to one of these things? It's the draft. It's not an actual game.

So you and your father went, so my wife is not very impressed by that. I tried to tell her, look, it's Vegas, first of all. Why wouldn't you just go because it's in Vegas? But tell me what the scene was like last night. I'm sure you and your father were not out amongst the masses. You had mezzanine or sweets somewhere close to the stage. Yeah, yeah, we pulled the Dan Snyder, and we're away from the common people, for one. even though we're typically the common people.

But the crowd, the crowd was incredible. You know, it, Goodell said there was at least 100,000. The news reports we've seen that's 500,000. We went to the draft in Philly a couple years ago, where we took John Allen, and that was absurd as a scene, but it doesn't even compare to this. You know, just walking back to the hotel after the draft, you just couldn't even navigate the relatively wide sidewalks of Las Vegas.

I've been in Vegas during a Connor McGregor fight. I've been in Vegas during massive conventions. I've never seen the city like this. It was about as jammed as it could be, and it's for something that my best friend calls glorified bingo calling, except you only care about one out of every 32 bingo numbers. So it was quite something I could have never seen. And to the average person, you know, your wife, my wife, my best friend,

they think we're all absolutely nuts, but at least there's strange that nuts numbers here. So what fan base do you think was represented the most? Was that obvious or was it just a mix of every fan base? Well, I think what's interesting is you would have expected the Rams to be all over because they're so close. They just won the championship. It's bandwagon, but they didn't have a pick yesterday.

Same with the Seahawks. Yeah. So the fans weren't quite in. Well, the Seahawks did. The Seahawks had, of course, Denver's pick. Yeah. Right. Right.

But today's their big day. they've got, too. So the Rams and the Bears were notable in their absence, let's say. Let's just say that. And I think the Raiders fans dominated, as you'd assume, I think, I think Vegas certainly has no shortage of them. But I was impressed by the commanders fans. I was impressed by the Bengals fans. There were your usual, a lot of kind of cowboys and Eagles fans. So no surprises. You know, the major metropolitan city is the market the care, you know, the jets, the commanders. The only real surprise was the Bengals, and then again, the absence of the Rams and the Bears were notable. But I think we're going back today, and I think the Rams are just going to invade the place, right?

Because L.A. loves the winner more than they actually care about anything else. Yeah, I just don't know how many real Rams fans there are in L.A. You know, it's funny because you reminded me of something. I read something the other day. We know how well this draft does as a television show. We all know that. It's the, you know, it demolishes every other sport other than the NFL and college football. I mean, it crushes the NHL playoffs, the NBA playoffs and is comparable probably with the Major League Baseball playoffs.

But what I read the other night, and it was interesting, is because there were more teams with multiple first round picks than ever before. That meant there were more teams without first round picks. And you mentioned that. The Rams, the Bears, the Browns, the Broncos, the Colts, Raiders, dolphins, and 49ers. Okay, all without first round picks. And so forget the fact that their fans didn't show up for it live. You've got markets like L.A., Chicago, Miami, and the Bay Area, massive television markets that may not have been tuned in last night like they typically are.

So it's not going to surprise, I think, some of the TV executives if the ratings aren't through the roof or even if they're down last night compared to previous years because all those fan bases probably weren't nearly as interested. I think the attendance here is probably a reflection of the TV viewership. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if we start to hit records for day two and for day two, though, because, you know, I know that there may not be that many Rams fans, but there are no Chargers fans. there were some Chargers fans here. I am expecting those fan bases that slept last night to come out of hibernation today. So it would not surprise me. I meant the 49ers course out of the Diak. I would not surprise me to see a bunch of Californians drive in or fly in for the day today.

A bunch of Bears fans, you know, looking to get to Vegas. And I would bet they will watch, you know, with the picks that they have, they're more important now in the second round because they didn't get that first, right? Justin Fields needs a weapon. and all the Bears fans are tuning in now. So I would not be surprised if yesterday's viewership is down, but today's is up. And I'm not a ratings guy.

I don't know if that's good or bad for the NFL, but I do think that not having a first place of heightened interest on your second, let's just say. What kind of garb were commanders fans slash Redskins slash Washington football team fans wearing the most? Was it Redskins stuff or was it new stuff? You know, the Commander's stuff hasn't gotten shipped, right? So I bought a Commander's jersey. I'll admit it. I gave the insider buddy, but it hasn't shipped yet.

So I'm not able to wear it. I'm still wearing my choices where Sean Taylor, RG3, and Alex Smith of the jersey. They have in my closet. So I'm still wearing the Alex Smith. You know, my dad has a shirt that's commanders, but you can't pick that out as a Commander shirt. So I would say that the casual fans were all wearing,

the coolies, the portises, the Seismans, old school Redskins jerseys. And then you had the crazy season ticket fans that were down in the inner circle area that we're all wearing, you know, custom burgundy and gold suits and, you know, pig masks and everything. But the casual fans on the street, because the commanders' jerseys haven't shipped, they're all wearing their same jerseys they were wearing at FedEx five, ten years ago. And, you know, same as me, I guess. All right.

What was the biggest cheer of the night? What was the biggest boo of the night? I mean, the booze for Goodell last night, I didn't think were nearly as loud as they've been previously in other markets. Yeah, I mean, Philly was much more brutal to Goodell than Vegas has been. I think they like him for giving them a team, let's just say. So the Raiders fans might have spared him a bit. The biggest boo surprised me.

It was the Pittsburgh fans. I think they were dead set on. league willis. And I think it's kind of one of those things where even though Kenny Pickett's a local guy, they expected more out of him or they thought he was a little underwhelming in college. You know, he never took Pitt to, he took Pitt to some heights, but not to, you know, national championship heights, let's say. So for whatever the reason is, the Pittsburgh fans seemed down on their hometown kid, they were not very happy at all about the, the move to to pick Kenny Pickett. And, you know, the best move of the draft, the most applauded one,

even though there's a small contingent, it just makes your skull hurt every day to be so close to the Ravens. And when they took, in my mind, the player we should have taken, and in a lot of people's mind, and Kyle Hamilton just fell to them at 14. You know, the Ravens fan, the small contingent of Raven fans went nuts, and the small contingent of commanders fans went nuts in the opposite direction, too. So those were the two big reactions. So what was the reaction from the Washington fans when first the announcement was a trade back and then the selection of Dotson? I think the trade back, people were cautiously optimistic that we still might get someone that we wanted, a Chris Lave, Jameson Williams, and Kyle Hamilton. I think once they all went, you know, I looked around the commander section, and, you know, I know

I know John Dotson because I follow college football maniacally, but most of the commanders fans there who had been listening to, you know, yourself and the draft experts with new Williams and Olivae and Hamilton, they were like, who's Jahan Dotson? So, I mean, it feels a little Jamin Davis like where your pick is watching the NBA playoff because he doesn't think there's a chance he's going to get taken yet, and you reach for him a bit. So I think there was a very, very, very, you know, very much. cautiously, skeptically optimistic mood when we traded back because everyone knew we need more picks. And then I think people started hitting their head on the wall and saying not again with Jehan Dodson. Now, people are talking themselves into Johan Dotson, and there's a chance. He's a good player. You know, he was probably 25th on most boards. He went 16th. It's not the

biggest overreach in history. He didn't go number one. I certainly hope he's a good player, but it certainly feels like whether or not he's a good player, we're talking ourselves into this being the right move because the initial reaction was one of hitting your head against the wall among almost every commander's fan I saw there. All right, two more for you guys. Have you and your father won money or lost money since getting to Vegas? So the good news is they have this whole big NFL draft experience thing

that we walked around. They have people running the 40. They have people kicking field goals and embarrassing themselves. So basically between flying in yesterday, getting set up at the hotel, you know, we're all the way at the Luxor right near Allegiance Stadium, walking our butts all the way up the strip. Like, we didn't even have time to do either, and we didn't even stay for the Weezer concert after, because it was already like midnight our time. We're exhausted. We're starving. You're thirsty.

You know, it's dry as heck out here, and you're sitting in your seat for three and a half hours. We were just wanted to drag ourselves back to a food court and get them to eat. So we haven't lost or won anything. My dad prides himself on not gambling. He tells a story of how he had to come here once for business and lost 15 cents at a nickel video poker machine waiting for Jesus. I am eagerly planning ways to what is the best way to lose my money gambling and embarrass my dad about what he's raised. And coming up with a detailed plan for that before the draft starts today. All right.

Last one, speaking of Weezer, what was the level of how? hash there last night. How strong was the smell of weed in the crowd? So during the draft, there was none because everybody who was in the good seats was either a season ticket holder, who was, you know, given the spot by the team, or was someone who had, you know, gotten tickets another way. But then what happened is as people started leaving toward the end of the 20s and early 30s, they didn't want it to look at, you know, So I started letting in people from the general admission to go in for the Weezer concert. And that was just like, you know, combine the legal weed with Vegas.

Right. And I couldn't get out. Like, we had our mask just in case we were in a, you know, dense COVID area. I ended up needing the mask just to kind of detox of freeze without smoke at that point. It got bad once they opened the floodgate. I would have been fine with it. This was great, Colin. I appreciate you doing this.

You can catch Colin on Twitter at Sports Gut Check and catch his show Saturday mornings on 9-10 the fan in Richmond. Say hello to your dad. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. We'll do. Thanks, Kevin. All right, that's it for the show today. More likely than not, I'll be back for a weekend show, especially if they pick a quarterback or they surprise with a big trade. But it may be on Sunday, not tomorrow.

We'll see how the weekend goes. But until next time, enjoy the rest of the draft and the weekend.