The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jay Gruden Ain't No OG

Episode Date: January 24, 2019

Kevin reacts to DJ Swearinger ripping Jay Gruden on Instagram. Jason LaConfora/CBS was a guest on the show and shed more details on his Skins' report from last week. Thom called in from vacation with his take on Bruce Allen's interview Tuesday in Mobile. Steve Sands/Golf Channel called in from Torrey Pines where Tiger kicks off his season today. Kevin had a Wizards-Warriors pick and he also talked about one of the best hoops performances of the season last night and it wasn't James Harden. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I'm here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that I told you to call. Tommy's on a little bit of a vacation, but he's going to call in. Jason Locke and Fora will be on this show today. And Steve Sands also, he's at Torrey Pines, where Tiger Woods makes his 2000. debut today. The Caps lost again last night, seven in a row now, heading into the All-Star break. They lost against Toronto last night. If you missed Greg Wyshinsky yesterday on the podcast, ESPN Senior NHL writer was on the show.

Just go to yesterday's episode and listen. He was not alarmed by the Caps' recent losing streak. Also, if you want to listen to recent episodes, I'll give you this one right now. It's at the 127.45 mark. So an hour, 27 minutes, 45 seconds into yesterday's show, you can listen to Greg Wyshinsky. And you can listen to all of the past episodes at the Kevin Shiannshow.com, which is what, you know, it's great about a podcast. You missed the show last week?

You want to listen to it? Or if you missed, hey, if you missed when we broke down the Dallas game back in October or whenever they beat Dallas, and you want to listen to that one. Go back and listen to Happier Times. We're talking about what a disaster would have to be for the Redskins not to win the NFC East. Yes, when we were pretty bullish that they were in the midst of potentially a playoff season. Golden State's in town tonight. I'm going to be there tonight. What a scene it is when they are in town.

It is the biggest show, opponent show, that there is. Even more so than LeBron in recent years when the Warriors have been here. I've seen now the Warriors two or three times out of the last four years, I think, but it is quite the show downtown. They've won eight in a row. They are playing the best they've played all year long. Most of their wins during this win streak have been blowouts. The Wizards are also playing their best right now.

It's strange about this Wizards team in recent years that they tend to play these games very well. They're a nine and a half, ten point underdog tonight that seems high, but I guarantee you the public's going to be all over Golden State tonight. And I think the Wizards plus the number tonight is right. Maybe I'm just hopeful because I'm going to be at the game. James Hardin went off last night at Madison Square Garden. 61 for Hardin last night. He tied Kobe Bryant for the most points ever for a visiting player to the garden. it's his 21st straight game with 30 or more, 21 in a row with 30 or more points.

None of the 61, again, like the 57 and 58 last week back to back, none of them were assisted. Although his last two came off of a steel and a loose ball that he picked up, that sort of was an assist. But anyway, Houston beat the Knicks. He had in the performance last night, the 61 point performance last night, He also had 15 rebounds and five steals in the game. The best performance of the night, however, came in college basketball last night. I wanted to take a quick minute just to make all of you who have not paid attention to college basketball yet, but will in about a month and a half when we get to March Madness.

I want to make you aware of a player by the name of Grant Williams. He is a legitimate player of the year candidate. Tennessee last night was in trouble. If you don't know this, Tennessee's the number one team in college basketball right now. They're ranked number one in the nation. And they were in big trouble last night at Vanderbilt. They were down six with a minute to go, and there was a terrible flagrant foul called, which gave Tennessee four points on one possession.

It led to a forced overtime, and they won the game in overtime 88, 83. But the best performance of the night last night in basketball, and maybe of the year in college basketball, was what 6-7 junior forward Grant Williams did last night for the volunteers at Vanderbilt. He had 43 last night, but get this. He was 23 of 23 from the free throw line. 23 of 23. He didn't miss a free throw on 23 attempts.

It was the second most made free throws without a miss in college basketball history. Someone went 24 for 3. 24 back in 1959. I don't even know what the guy's name was. But if you haven't watched Grant Williams or Tennessee for that matter, this is a heads up for a month and a half from now, because Tennessee is a legit, good team. And Grant Williams, you've heard about Zion Williamson, and you've heard about R.J. Barrett and Cam Reddish, and I've mentioned Rhee Hachamura at Gonzaga, Carson Edwards at Purdue. They're all really good players, and they're all in the mix for player of the year, but Grant Williams is too. He's six, seven, he's thick, he's got great hands, he's a

terrific shooter, he's a great low post player. And here's the comp for all of you, for the older portion, the older portion of the audience today. Just think Adrian Dantley. He knows how to get buckets, Grant Williams does. He knows how to get to the free throw line. The only difference is that Williams is a better athlete than Dantley was, but he gets to the rim in that patient, you know, crafty way with head fakes and spin moves and up and unders and fadeaways. He can face, he can post. He's just, he's a fun player to watch. And he's going to be a fun player to watch at the next level, too, because he's going to be

a score or two in the NBA. But that's a really good team, a very well-coached team. I've always been a Rick Barnes fan going back to Clemson when he coached there. He coached George Mason to start his career. He was a Gary Williams assistant many, many, many years ago at Ohio State. But Grant Williams is a star on a team that has other star players and a ton of experience. Tennessee's players, best players are all juniors and seniors. You don't usually think Tennessee when you think Final Four or national championship,

but they're going to be there in March. They still have both of their games with Kentucky left. I think both of them are next month. And the SEC is pretty good. Auburn's good, Ole Miss is good, Mississippi State's good, but Tennessee's got a really good chance to end up with a one seed when all of a sudden done regular season-wise. A fun team to watch, and I love watching Grant Williams play.

He is legit good. All right, did you see the DJ Swaranger thing on Instagram yesterday? I did see that. So a month after his release In fact, actually, it's a month to the day. It was Christmas Eve that he got released. Am I right about that? I believe so.

Yeah, so it's a month to the day that he got released. He's in Arizona now. That's where he signed. He went off on Jay Gruden yesterday on Instagram. He was responding to a Redskin fan on Instagram who reached out to tell DJ Swaranger how missed he is. And this was the quote, from Sweringer.

Quote, y'all will never win, big bro. I've seen championship swagger from a coach, B.A., he, O.G. Now, I interrupt the quoting of Sweringer's Instagram for some translation here. B.A., I believe he's referring to Bruce Ariens.

I think that's Bruce Ariens, and that's the coach he played for in Arizona the last time he was there. And OG, well, I mean, come on, man. I mean, that's easy for most of us. middle-aged suburban fathers. It's original gangsta. Come on. All right. So we go back to the quote, now that I've done the translating part of it. And I'll start from the beginning just so we didn't lose some of you out there. Y'all will never win, big bro. I've seen championship swagger from a

coach B.A. He a OG. And then it goes as follows. That coach y'all have will never win. He'll never win big because it ain't in him to coach discipline. He's referring to Jay Grudenell. It ain't in him to chew somebody out in practice because they're lacking. When you say I'm a cancer for wanting to practice harder or wanting to get coached harder just to win, then winning prolly, probably, not for you or you don't understand that hard work pays off. Mediocre work get you beat. Remember this.

Winners are born but champions are made. A strong leader of men make others around him better. spread peace, love, and elevation in everything you do, little brada, be easy. So that was DJ Swaranger. That was awesome. I think we need an entire podcast of you reading players' tweets. Look, a few things to point out before we get to the Gruden part. First of all, I don't know if anybody else picked up on this.

Bruce Ariens has never won a championship, and he referred to BA as a championship swagger coach. I like Bruce Ariens as a coach. as a coach. And DJ Swaranger hasn't won a championship either. In fact, I went to look this up because I was curious about all of his championship swagger and all of his lecturing on how to be a winner. You know what his record is on the teams he played on? 3851 and 1. That's the record of the teams that he's played on as a starter or a significant minutes guy. 3851 and 1. So old DJ hadn't won anything either. I love the winning prolly. Probably was was prolly. P-R-O-L-L-Y. Winning prolly, not for you. Winners are born, but champions are made, he wrote. I mean,

is he serious? Because his winning's probably not for him either, because he hasn't won much. Look, in all seriousness, I'll get to the Gruden part in a moment. You do not win with players like DJ Swaranger. I know some of you out there think he's totally right about everything he said and the team was wrong to let him go, but you usually don't win with guys who can't be coached. He was not able to follow simple, team-driven instruction. Jay Gruden said keep your mouth shut and stop backstabbing everybody on this team and everybody that coaches the team and plays with you. the media. It's not that hard. I know you want to win, DJ. I know you work hard and you're a good player. We get it. But your backstabbing erases all of the good things that you bring.

I thought DJ Sweringer was a good game day player. I did. I thought he was a good player. But you don't usually win with guys that are uncoachable backstabbers. And he has not won anywhere he's been in the NFL. Let's just make that point and emphasize it. Not one legit winning team has he been on. There was the Arizona team that lost in the playoffs, got blown out by Carolina in the playoffs. He was on that team. If he were a transcendent talent, you know, if he were Ed Reed or Sean Taylor, Ken Easley, or Ken Houston, you know, you figure it out, but he's not even close to that. He's fierce. He's good. I like the way he plays, but he's not an overwhelming transcendent talent to overcome the backstabbing uncoachability of him and his persona. All right, let's get

to the part about what he said about Jay Gruden, because that is a separate issue. And keep in mind, keep in mind, the DJ Swaranger is predisposed to being highly critical of people, not building them up. That's his move to criticize people. But when he says about Jay Gruden, that coach y'all have will never win because it ain't in him to coach discipline. It ain't in him to chew somebody out in practice because they're lacking. You know it and I know it. It rings true about Jay Gruden. I've been told that Sweringer was told a half dozen times minimum to not criticize his teammates and coaches publicly before Jay finally had had enough and cut him. I mean, it took a half dozen warnings from Jay before he acted. Jay is

easy. Jay is coachable. I've made that point before that this is why Bruce and Dan like him. He's go along to get along. He just wants to, you know, do right by Dan and Bruce. He's never going to push back. He's never going to be confrontational. Really, I think Jay just wants to design an offense and coach offense. He's not a disciplinarian. He's not a big-time leader of men. He's not an all-around good coach. He has strengths. He does. They are, as we've talked about in the past, his ability to get people open in the passing game. He's good at that. Other coaches recognize it. I guarantee you if Jay Gruden were available, he'd get picked up to be an offensive coordinator again. There would be a bidding for him as an offensive coordinator. But he is an average to

subpar head coach. His players like him because he's easy. His front office likes him because he doesn't push back. Everyone was in Mobile this week, except for Jay Gruden. As a side note, Jay Gruden may be the best talent evaluator in the organization right now. I've been told that in the past by multiple people that Gruden has a real eye for talent. But he's not involved in that. He doesn't even have final say over his staff, and he doesn't seem to care that much.

Here's something to watch. If Bill Callahan comes back, and it was reported, I think, by J.P. Finley the other day that he's going to be back. I think Bruce told J.P. Finley that, maybe told Michael Phillips that as well. That's a Bruce call. It contradicts what Gruden likely wants. But Jay will make it work as best as he can, and he's not going to put up a big fight over it. He'll probably sit down and hash it out with Callahan. They'll try to get on the same page. Jay doesn't want conflict. He doesn't enjoy that style, that discomfort, even though a lot of

successful coaches, successful managers and business will tell you it's essential to have some of that conflict. That's not him. If the Redskins are in the market for a quarterback and they appear to be, shouldn't Jay be involved? Shouldn't he be in Mobile? He didn't even look at the quarterbacks in the draft last year. He admitted it. The Alex Smith trade, Jay wouldn't have made that trade on his own. I'm convinced of it. I am convinced of it.

But when Bruce said, hey, we made this trade, I think, or if he was consulted from this standpoint before, hey, Jay, what do you think about Alex Smith? Yeah, I like Alex Smith. Okay. And then he's told that they traded for him. He's fine with it. He's fine with it. He's go along to get along.

And I think this is what DJ Swaranger was saying in his Instagram post. And I think he's right. And this is why I think there's a larger big picture issue is that even when change comes, and it will eventually come. You know, Dan's not going to have Jay Gruden coach his team forever. You know, will he be strong enough? Will he be secure enough to go get a stand? stand up, no nonsense, structured, disciplined, pushback, confrontational head coach.

A guy that's not going to put up with the bullshit. He's not going to put up with an owner or a team president picking his staff for him. It's welcome in Jason Lockenforah to the show. It's been a long time since I've talked to you, in part, because I used to always love having you back in the day when you were covering the skins on the radio show. But once we became an ESPN affiliate, that made it more different. for you, but I've enjoyed you on Tony's podcast and your writing and reporting and CBS work as well. And you've got a podcast.

It's Be More Opinionated. And I'm assuming that you can get it anywhere. You can get a podcast, iTunes, Apple Podcasts, all of it, right? Yep. Or you can go to our website, www.bmoshow.com. And we've got all the episodes and our various rants and ravings and whatever our intern feels like posting that week about the Ravens or the Orioles or Maryland basketball or whatever. you can find all that at the website too. So yeah, it's more for the other side of the Beltway.

I'll confess, but if anybody bleeds orange and black or purple and black, you know, around the D.C. area, we've got you covered. Well, I mean, you're doing in Baltimore what I'm doing in D.C. a little bit. But, you know, the one, and the people on the other side of the river don't always understand this. But the thing that Baltimore and Washington truly share in is Maryland sports and Maryland basketball, which has always been, you know, the number one product. You know, it's always been a basketball first school. And this year in particular, I actually think they're legit good.

I think this is a sweet 16 team. Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic. I still have reservations about the coach, you know what I mean? And when it comes time to be a master tactician and when they don't have the talent imbalance in their favor, how's that going to play out? But no, it's been a lot of fun. It's the first time my kids are, my boy, my daughter doesn't really like basketball. My boys are about to turn 12 and 1-7, so they haven't been around too many good Maryland teams.

So it's been fun watching them, you know, watch Bruno Fernando do his thing and get a little bit excited. So hopefully they keep it going. Yeah, and it's really, you know, in terms of live sporting events in either market, Baltimore or Washington, there is very little that compares to a big game, you know, at, you know, at, you know, at, Xfinity Center in terms of the atmosphere. All right, I called you because of what you reported last week on the Redskins. So I want to get to that. But more broadly, you know, the feeling that many of us have, fans and media people alike here,

is that the Redskins have become so unattractive. It's been building, obviously, over a long period of time, that getting quality people to work here has become very, very different. for Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen, anybody else. Is that a reality in league circles? Yes, and it's why when people would ask me in November and December, is Jay Gruden in any trouble, I'd say. Like, is the owner satisfied with him?

Does the owner think he could do better than him in his mind? Yeah, but he's also been down this road enough to know that he doesn't want to be left with his pants around his ankles again like he was with Jim Zorn, and that's where this would have gone. A quarter of the league looking for coaches, a year where there are not a lot of hot candidates, and people are diving on Matt LaFlor and Zach Taylor and Cliff Kingsbury, who's coming to Washington?

You know, like, it's, it would have been an incredibly tough sell, and it would have been a very competitive marketplace where supply already doesn't meet demand, and that's why I think he was doing what he was doing, which was trying to get Bowls and Williams in the building one way or another, knowing, okay, well, if this falls apart, these guys can take over for eight weeks, 12 weeks, six weeks, four weeks, and then maybe be my guy moving forward.

I don't think that was I don't think that that was like just sort of happenstance that oh yeah those guys had been former head coaches as well I think that was very much part of the allure

you know because again is he going to is he going to get the best and the brightest right now no but could he get people in the building who he feels like could be there

as in-house replacements that's probably the best he thought he could do and he wasn't even able to do that you know on some level I believe that the same, that Dan also feels with respect to Bruce. Now, Bruce is a security blanket for him. You know this. I mean, he's, he's his voice in league meetings meetings. Dan's become virtually a recluse here over the last, you know, few years. He's not comfortable, as you know, talking, you know, media-wise, even in league meetings-wise. And that's where Bruce has been, you know, a real comfort to him. But I think on some level, too, when it comes to the front office, if there were a quality, person available, could he attract that person? Not with Bruce in the building, not with people worried about where those allegiances lie. Yeah, oh, now I've moved him over to the business side.

I mean, does that mean he's only going to whisper business things in your ear? You know what I mean? Does that mean when you guys are having a bottle of red wine allegedly talking about the next stadiums or whatever, or whatever's going on in Richmond, that he isn't also, you know, hey, by the way, boy, that second round picks a real dog. You know, they really messed that one up. I mean, how did it go with Scott? You know, like, it's really not tenable.

It's an either-or proposition. If you were, I mean, the next step is he has to go, he's probably going back to, if it's not a Greg Williams or a Todd Bulls taking over next year or something like that. And I would add, he hasn't hired defense since Marty, right? Right. Yeah, no, that's 100%. At some point do you realize, you know, you're, excuse me,

how about the call? Your perpetual chasing of sort of, you know, a guy over the hill or a guy who hasn't proved anything yet or a guy who, whatever, is buddies with Bruce's buddies. Like, the whole chasing the quarterback thing isn't working. So maybe they go defense in that regard. But if they don't, excuse me, then his next move is probably back to the Gibbs model where he tries to find somebody who can do everything for him and set the whole thing up. The Gibbs model, the Shannahan model, the Schottenheimer model. He tends to oscillate between, here, come send me for myself, and here, let's just see who'll take the job under these conditions, and eventually we'll get somebody to it. Look, I made the case a couple of weeks ago on the podcast, and if he's going to suck it being an owner, which he does, he might as well do it the way that he used to do it, having fun. It can't be any worse to go overspend for everything than it's been with a guy who, you know, has been a master at getting a bargain on average players, which is Bruce out. Right. So I don't know that that's completely out of the question in the future, but with respect to your reporting last week in the aggressive pursuit of Todd Bowles, did they ever get close?

I can't say that they got close because there was never a point where I heard. There's never a point where I heard where Todd was really willing to do more than just listen, you know what I mean, and see where it goes. But, you know, he's like, look, what would it take for you to do this? And my understanding is Todd never. really laid out the full kit and caboodle. It was obvious that money wasn't going to be an issue, that future of the organization wasn't going to be an issue, and that even if it meant, hey, let's give Doug more power. You're comfortable with Doug, and you know Doug, and you guys are former Redskins players, and maybe we rearranged the Division of Labor. All that was on the table.

But Todd's a pretty smart guy. You know, Todd just got out of a weird, awkward situation in the Jets. Todd was being woo. He had his buddy Bruce Aaron's coming after him in Tampa. He had the Cleveland Browns and what looks like it's set up to be really successful. He had them coming after him. He had every guy who thought he was getting a job in the league asking if he would be their decoordinator. Hey, can I list you as my top candidate?

So he had incredible leverage. And throwing $3 million out of him, $3.5 million out of him, wasn't really going to do it. Todd needs to go somewhere that's stable. That's conducive to. success short and long term, and let's face it. BA is year to year. I mean, they can win 10 games this year and BA be in bad health, and he just said, hey, I'm out, and Todd Bowles is coaching the Tampa Bay box.

So he knew how much was out there for him. I don't think there was much Dan could have done to have him come in. You know, just as an aside, for whatever reason, I've just been a Todd Bowles fan, regardless of his record as a head coach. And I think the league spoke about him in what you were just describing that people really believe he is a talented defensive coordinator at the very least. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And his personality wasn't a great fit in New York. And he's with the first time GM. And he's there when Woody takes this job with Trump and goes over to the UK. And now Chris Johnson's figuring out what it means to be in the spotlight and answering these questions and making these macro decisions. And, you know, they screwed up the quarterback position. You know, let's be real.

He comes in in the aftermath of Gino Smith and how bad Tannenbaum and Rex and those guys had butchered it. And then they're taking, you know, they're overdrafted in Hakenberg and, you know, Bryce Petty. You know, like, who's winning? Who was really going to win? And the Patriots are still a freaking dynasty. They're still winning 12 games a year and going to the championship game literally every year.

So, yes, I think Todd deserves another shot. and a better shot, and I think he'll be better for it. And I just think his demeanor and his approach and New York, not great. But in some of these other markets, I mean, in Tampa, I think it would work. If he can fix that defense some this year, BA coaches up the offense. And again, B.A., I mean, he ain't going to be there more than a couple of years. I have a hard time with all he's been through physically seeing him. He's going to try to win a Super Bowl the next two years, and then that's it.

And that thing could be if it's going well, that thing could be, Todd's. I mean, Dan Snyder might not ever get his hands on Todd Bulls. Bruce Allen spoke the other day for the first time, I think, in over a year. And one of the things that was a head turner was this notion that Greg Minnowski was involved in these meetings. And I said yesterday he may have been involved in meetings to replace Kirk Olivadati or Torian Gray, but there's no way in hell he sat in on the meeting with Todd Bowles. Is that right? Dan Snyder. No, it was not Todd Bulls, Dan Snyder, and Greg Minoskey. I mean, that would be, Even by Redskins standards, that would be tremendously awkward.

No, no. He was not. This was Dan, and Dan said to Todd, you know, I had two people tell me, Dan said to Todd, if you're not, I'm just letting you know, if you're not doing this and I understand, then I'm only Greg Williams. But this is the kind of guy I'm looking for. This is where I'm going with this thing. That was, like Greg Minoski at this point, you know what I mean?

He's along for the ride. Like, he's just, he's, Dan's driving the yacht, and he's, you know, he's steering the yacht and he's on a lifeboat somewhere with it on a dinghy connected to it. And maybe Dan cuts that rope and maybe he does it. But that's where this day. It was the SS Snyder. What did you make beyond your reporting? What did you make of Dan sort of coming out of the woodworks to a certain extent?

I'm not suggesting that he hasn't been involved intimately. But most people out there will tell you that it's been different in recent years than it used to be when Vinny was here, you know, before Mike and Bruce got here. But what do you make of him getting super aggressive and getting involved in sort of this one-on-one attempt to hire a defensive coordinator? Well, I think it's guys he knows, and he knows Todd through the alumni. And I'm told, you know, that him not approaching Todd in the past had ruffled a lot of feathers around Redskins Park. You know, and him not considering Todd for jobs at various times and sort of overlooking him the arc of his career. one person told me that even Joe Gibbs said something to Dan about it. So I think there was...

About Todd. Gibbs said something about Todd? Yeah, how come this guy, you know what I mean? How come you've never... You're throwing money around all over the place for years and years and years and years and all these different coaches and through his rise as a coordinator. And then when you've needed a head coach in the past, why is this guy? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Where I've never put the press on him, which, again, he did this year, but at a point where the franchise is so low, Todd's listening with one ear, but it's not really going to go anywhere. So I think you had that personal element of it. And then as much was made of him not giving Greg that job and how the players wanted Greg to have it and Greg thought he was going to get it and all that stuff and how bad the interview went, those two have a very strong relationship.

Yeah, you said that in your story. I did. Yeah, go ahead. He's reached out. I mean, I've been heard for years that at various points, he's reached out and say, hey, I'm not done with you. Like, at some point, if this mess continues, you're a guy I know can clean up a mess.

So Greg Williams has been on his radar for a long time. You know, even as Greg's career ebden flowed and what was, you know, obviously the year sitting out and the Saints thing, you know, Dan definitely respects him on a certain level. Now, how long could that relationship last? I don't know because Greg is the furthest thing in the world from a yes man, and Dan ultimately craves yes men. Right. But he also knows at a certain point, I'll go back to that, save me from myself. model, you know, and if you hired, if you, like, if Greg Williams had even come in that building, if that interview had happened, like, I'm guessing within five minutes, Greg's like,

I only flew here because, like, I'll tell, you know, I'm coming here to take this job, but only if you got to, like, Bruce has got to go, you know what I mean, like, we got to have, we got to have a big boy front office here, you know, like, we got to, like, this has got, like, I'm not going through a business guy, you know what I mean, to get players and get budgets and all that stuff. Well, what's interesting is when you say that, you know, Dan has said to Greg Williams over the years, hey, I'm not done with you yet. This would have been the time. Like right now, Bruce, you're gone, Jay, you're gone. They're at their nadir. Like, if you're Greg Williams and you've got a chance to do these

different things and go to other teams. But a head coach I'm talking about is the head coach. Well, what would stop Dan from calling him a year from now? I'm going to say, if you're Greg Williams and you're looking at that situation right now, and the fans aren't coming to games, You've got players yelling at fans. You've got, you know, are they bringing Josh Norman back, aren't they? You've got a lot of big personalities. I mean, what is, like, is Greg Williams going to be the guy who has to come in and, like, try to make this Ruben Foster thing work?

You know, who's the quarterback? Who's picking the next quarterback? Like, with all that going on, do you want to go there now? Or, like, if I'm sitting back as just a calculated outsider, I'm like, why am I going to that mess now? The guy already likes me, knows me. I just went five and three with the frigging Cleveland Browns. If, you know, Darnold's legit and Gase coaches the offense and they've got some pieces on defense,

the Jets maybe take a big step up and then maybe there's a head coaching job in Washington or somewhere else. You know, I'd rather go in empowered with an Adam Gase that take this job now. Yeah, maybe you're the interim there, but you don't want to just be the interim guy two years in a row. And it's just bad. Like I don't know that you can make the case that the Redskins are in any way on an upswing, whereas I think with the Jets, there's at least some potential there. I don't disagree with that at all. I'm just saying that perhaps being the head coach would have enticed him more than being a defensive coordinator.

But I also wonder, and you would probably know the answer to this, is there any league hesitation in hiring Greg Williams as a head coach? I don't think so. I mean, he's completely reinstated. I mean, I don't know what the league would say. He served that capacity for half the season with the Browns. No, I mean, it's up to any individual owner, just like, hey, some 31 teams in the league were not willing to claim Ruben Foster-old laborers, right? One was.

Like, it's all going to come down to the predilections of the individual ownership groups anyway on something like this. You know, he's not on any sort of suspended or barred list, obviously, and he's free to interview with whoever he wants to interview with, and any team's free to hire him. So, no, and especially here where he's such a known commodity, I think it's even less of an issue. You know, on the Foster thing, I'm just going to veer off here for a moment because I want to come back to Bruce and Dan and Bowles and Greg Williams. But how upset was the league the Redskins claimed Ruben Foster when they did? And if they were, why didn't they prevent anybody from signing him in that moment? Well, there's no league mechanism as it currently stands when it comes down to the literal minutia of roster designations. And this is all collectively bargain.

And, you know, if you're, it's just the way the waiver system works. Okay. Could they create in the next CBA some other designation where the league has this window to step in and immediately put him on an exempt list or whatever, you know, they're going to have to sort some of that out. But the way it worked in this instance with how quickly he was released and everything else, you know, had he gone unclaimed, then I think the league would have probably He probably stepped in, said we're reviewing the matter, and we're going to put them on an exempt list in the meantime.

But as it stands now, there really wasn't much that could have happened. I mean, once they decide to waive that player in real time, he's now got to clear waivers. If they create some designation like, you know, waive slash, I don't even know, off-field issue or whatever, you know what I mean? You know, there has to be some other category. I just, you know, I sat here on multiple days in a row, you know, as much of a head scratcher as it was, and it was ridiculous, and it had nothing to do with the presumption of the man's innocence or guilt, it was just horrible timing and optics. And this was the one

organization among maybe a couple that just couldn't do it. And they were the, as you mentioned, and this is what started this portion of the conversation, they were one of 32. And I had heard the league was not pleased that they had, that they had claimed him so quickly off waivers. And I just sort of came to the conclusion, well, they should have prevented the dumb, dumb teams from doing that. They should have had a sense that they're, you know, that they have a few teams that are pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff and might actually claim him and not, you know, and not let somebody, you know, basically protected themselves from themselves. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's sort of, it's not like something that happens with

regularity, you know what I mean? And it's like, this is the way the league operates. And I guess the thought process also was if you think you're, it's pretty clear he's not, he's being viewed as toxic in that moment. If you have the best, whatever, you got all his buddies on the team and your locker room allegedly is raving about this guy, although we come to find out, we don't know how much and that was true. Right. But if you've got the perfect incubator, then he's going to sign with you as a free agent anyway. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, if they just waited. You could just let it play out, find out a little more information. I mean, yeah.

Yeah, whatever. We could spend, I want to go back to the meeting with Bowles because you wrote in your story last week that Snyder was leading the push as you've talked about and that he was willing to alter his personnel structure within football operations if Bowles was interested. Was that a reference to Bruce? Well, in that maybe Todd could deal with

with Doug rather than having to deal with Bruce in terms of procuring defensive talent. Got it. Okay. So more Doug having a more significant role if Todd had taken the job. There was never a meeting with Williams, right? No, no, just phone conversation, setting up, you know what I mean, setting up an interview. He was going to fly in from Cleveland, I think, on that Tuesday. And I guess have dinner Tuesday or whatever.

and then, you know, interview in the Wednesday. But really, he was leaning, you know what I mean? The Jets was the more, it was, if the Jets were able to come to terms with him, that's where he was going, you know. Again, and I don't know why. Yeah, no, I agree with you. You would second guess that, you know, like, let me jump in on this thing. It's a clean slate.

New head coach coming in. Everybody's going to be empowered. We got a potential franchise quarterback. Tom Brady can't keep doing this forever. You know, we got 100 million. in cap space versus we got a, you know what I mean? We probably got to pay Alex Smith $54 million to rehab his leg. Right. What's next for this organization? Like where, you know, right now, next year does not look very promising. I mean, they're in a hole at the most important position

on the field more likely than not. They've got some young talent on their defensive line, Jason. They've got some young talent, you know, on their offensive line. Brandon Sheriff's one of the better guards in the league, and Trent Williams is still a monster at left tackle. But where, Where does this thing go? Are we sitting here a year from now with the significant change that the fans, or what's left of the fan base, really wanted to happen right now? This is an inelastic relationship with Bruce Allen. It's not grounded in reality or results or any metric you would objectively use to weigh whether he's doing the job or not in the state of the organization. under his stewardship.

It's about loyalty, and it's about, if I call him at 4.30 in the morning, he's going to pick up the phone, and it's about all that other stuff that matters so much to Dan. And he ends up, you know, basically, you know, being head over heels, not only say with the person, but with the mechanics of the relationship. And the way, I don't know how much he ever cared about Vinic Serrano as a person, but there was a lot of things that Vinny did. and the way that the power flowed in that relationship, and the way he could take out his, you know, negative energy on that guy

and, you know, all the stuff that Dan got his jollies from, that dude keeps coming back for more. So I think it's sort of about that. And I also believe there's a sort of perverse part of this that's like, the more people push for something, the more stubborn he gets. I think the more people hate Bruce, the more he loves Bruce. I don't know. There just seems to be something completely.

completely illogical about how it works. So I was hearing a lot of rumblings that with some of the stuff that was going on in Oakland and, you know, Bruce having maybe one eye on Vegas that maybe this would finally be the offseason where something changed. And it turned out that Bruce probably is more empowered than ever because you've got a coach now who the owner's picking his staff for. You know, you've got the owner not listening to the fans. You've got Bruce now coming out in Mobile, you know, talking a little bit and clearly

letting everybody know. I'm still the guy who matters here in football operations. And then you've got all these issues and all these fires to put out. And I don't know. I mean, it probably doesn't blow well for Jay Gruden, but I don't know if Dan will get rid of Bruce. I mean, they're clinging to the idea of the stadium, you know, and I'm sure that's something where he feels like I need Bruce.

I don't know. It's hard to crawl inside Dan's head other than, you know, he did finally one day move on from Vinny. And when he moves on from Vinny, he gave everything to Shanahan. So I think whatever he does decide that enough enough with this, he'll probably, I think he'll try to go in that direction of, you know, the Spengali. But can he get, you know, will people take his money? I don't know.

And who that guy is, I don't know at this point. You know, it's become a little bit of piling on in a throwaway line when those of us in D.C. media will say it's the worst organization in the league it's one of the worst organizations in sports you cover the league you talk to people in the league is it now truly rock bottom is there a worse organization a worse a worse run organization in the sport than washington i mean jimmy has him's tenure's been a failure no that that that's turning i mean you have to think that's turning that the that there's enough talent there that it's going to save him from himself you know The Raiders are still, I mean, there's still a lot going on there.

And Mark Davis is by no means. A genius. Yeah. So let's see how that move plays out. Let's see how this Gruden thing plays out. But like that's what you're looking at the Arizona Cardinals right now and, you know, taking a shot on Kingsbury and interviewing Hugh Jackson's potential. Like Hugh Jackson is Cliff Kingberry's office coordinator.

Like who does that make sense? Like really? Like on what level does that make sense to Michael Bidwell and Steve? time in those guys. You know, is this Josh Rosen thing going to work, or are they going to be perpetually chasing the guy to replace Kurt Warner? So, I mean, I think, you know, that's the

shallow waters that the Redskins are treading in. We could quibble about which situation is worse or which group is worse, but it's bad. And it's turning, it's probably and again, Cleveland is pulling out of this malaise. You know, are the Raiders, are the Cardinals, will the skins

ever, you know, I don't know, Miami, you know, Miami, you know, I think is right there with them. Like, you know, maybe they go eight and eight every now and again or stumble into ten wins once every six years, but they can't keep anything together. They've got no cohesion. They don't have an overarching philosophy

or leadership from ownership that trickles down. So, yeah, I mean, I think they're among those teams. Remember, you know who loved Hugh Jackson back in the day was Spurrier. Spurrier loved him coming out of college as well. Three quick questions. and I'll let you run. This has been so nice of you. I appreciate it. Do you think the Redskins will draft a quarterback back at 15 or earlier in the first round if they trade up? I think it has to be on the table. I don't know why if their evaluations point towards, you know, grades worthy in that range, why you wouldn't. You're not, I mean, the year to get a quarterback was last year. They got one. Unfortunately, now there's a lot of concerns with that.

I said in real time, I don't get the rush to do this contract. I don't know why they're coming out at the Super Bowl and giving this guy $28 million a year. You just showed you could rent a quarterback. You just rented a younger quarterback. Rent this guy. Right. Whatever, but they did that.

I mean, that's 9,000 percent on Bruce. So, yeah, I think all things being considered, I mean, are you going to go get Tyrod Taylor? They're going to be flush against the cap. These guys are so young and so cheap with so much upside. I think they have to be in the market for a quarterback. I think I'm the only person that's actually been a Joe Flacco fan over the years. I just think he played his best games in the biggest moments and was a clutch quarterback.

Where will he land? It's probably not Jacksonville now, right? Won't Foles end up in Jacksonville? I think it's one of those two in Jacksonville, depending on the price tag, and not just in terms of trade, but also what do you want on your contract? Will Flacco be willing to pay? you know, to play restructure his deal lower than what it is right now. But, yeah, I would say because of the DePhilippo hire and, you know, the way Foles

played down the stretch, Foles will probably be Jacksonville's number one option right now. I don't know that they can make a trade for Joe with the contract and with so few teams needing quarterbacks. And, you know, with him being hurt really three straight years having fairly significant injuries and declining production. I don't know. I mean, if you put great pieces around him, I think he can function.

The problem is the teams that are looking for quarterbacks generally don't have that. And I don't know at this stage of his career that he's developing receivers for you and raising the caliber of mediocre players to very good. I think they may end up just making him a June 1st cap casually, you know, designated him as a June 1st cut and letting him go early in free agency

if they can't get a trade done at the combine. I was surprised that Harbaugh didn't put him in in that second half after the turnover when it was still 12-0. I really was. I thought that was their only chance. And as it proved out, they actually had a chance at the very end. But that was a stunner to me in the moment. Was it to you? No.

No, I would have been stunned if he didn't stick with that kid. He saved their season. He saved a lot of jobs. He is the first point where he really looked overwhelmed. And this is, they're, I mean, Flacco was gone in 2019, even if they didn't draft. Right. Lamar Jackson, unless he had his best season since the Super Bowl, unless he had a season like the Super Bowl year. And that probably wasn't in the cards, given how little talents around him.

They can't pass protect at all. You bring Flacco in. If they got to Lamar seven times, how many times are they getting the Flacco? They only run the ball with Lamar, not that they ran it well that day. I think that would have just been a disaster. and now you risk this kid going to the offseason having a look over and saying, man, the first time I slip up, they, they pash me. Well, look, I mean. You know, he is the future.

They've made their bed with him, and they've got to develop him. You know, you look at Jared Goff and how shattered he was. You've got to, you know, you don't want to go into the offseason that way, and if you do, you better have the right people there to rebuild him. And it's all about developing him and giving him a full offseason of all the reps with the ones and all the things he didn't get last offseason and building that foundation. up and adding some talent around him. So, no, I thought it particularly with the way their offensive line was getting overwhelmed, their only chance was throws outside the pocket. They didn't make the right of job.

I mean, that game was horrific. Marty Morningway got fired for a reason after that game. And horrible lack of adjustments, the wrong personnel out there. They put that kid in a position to fail, and he still made it a one-possession game at the end. I know he did. And he did. And I think that the last two years we've seen the best, defense in the last 10 years, you know, play one playoff game, which is a shame, because I thought

if they beat Cincinnati last year in the final game of the year, that they would have been held a deal with in last year's postseason, and, you know, they ran into a Chargers team and what you just said, you know, was all there too. But I, that defense this year and last year was as good as any, I think I've seen in a long time. Yeah, and it's weird. A lot of the guys, like, individually, I know that people get voted to the pro ball and whatnot, and that That's a popularity contest. But not a whole lot of guys getting all pro recognition, but the job that Wink Martindell did particularly,

calling that defense this year and knowing how to use those pieces was pretty special. I thought he'd get a head coaching interview or two, but it turned out, you know, they don't really want to talk to anybody on defense. Exactly. Vic Fangio and Brian Flores, and that's it. Everybody else is trying to pretend there's like all these Sean McVeys running around out there. Hey, I enjoyed this a lot. I really appreciate it.

I'd love to do it again with you soon. Sounds good. buddy my pleasure all right quick moment on window nation harley aaron eric they all listen to the podcast they love it uh eric uh is a big dc sports fan harley and erin are two of the best entrepreneurs you'll ever meet they've built a a huge company a very successful company because they know what customers want and they they know how to handle their customers first of all i've mentioned this to all of you that have listened to the podcast before i've had window nation install windows in my home and it was a great experience for a great price. And there's no risk if you want them to come into your home,

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He and Liz are always away and they've got trips planned and, you know, his wife's in Florida while he's here and then they meet up in the west, in the panhandle of Florida and drive to New Orleans. Is that what you're doing right now? Are you in the midst of your drive to New Orleans? Are you already in New Orleans? We are just outside of all places, Mobile, Alabama. Why don't you check in and see if Bruce is around? I know.

I was thinking I could stop in and see my friend. He'd be so talkative. Yeah, that's that drive there on 10, right? Yes. Yeah, just Interstate 10, because I've told you before, one of my best friends growing up, spent a lot of time in, well, he was in the Marine Corps, and then he was in flight school in Pensacola. So I went down there a few times to Pensacola,

and we would take that drive through Mobile on the way to New Orleans, which was always more fun than Pensacola, although Pensacola wasn't that bad either. No. All right, let's, I want to knock some subjects out here with you, because I am assuming that you did hear and listen to Bruce's 15 to 20 minute, interview the other day. What did you think? You know, I got to tell you, I thought he did better than I expected. Okay. I guess maybe that's because my expectations were so low. I mean, I don't think

we walked out with the winning off the field kind of soundbite that a lot of us expected. I just, I guess my expectations were so low and I think he did better than I thought he would. I thought, look, I thought the reporters did, you know, the best they could in a group circumstance to ask him the questions that needed to be asked. It's difficult to do follow-ups in a group situation, like, you know, to call him on certain things.

So, I mean, for the Reds, I think it was a wash. I don't think it made anybody feel better if you weren't upset with the Redskins already. And I don't think it turned anybody in particular saying, well, you know, I was a big fan, but now I have to listen to this. I'm not going to be with this team anymore. I don't think it had any impact except just to piece, the masses. I agree with you on the group of reporters that were there.

I thought they did a pretty good job. I also said yesterday that I thought he was a little bit more poised and under control for somebody who's been basically under attack. But there were moments, Tommy. The were close section of the interview, you know, seven and nine and then a year, a game out last year and a game out the year before. They were four games out, by the way, a year ago, not one game out. They got clobbered this year, you know, four games by 24 or more. and I thought it was a bit of a peak inside of Ashburn or inside the offices of Bruce and Dan

that they're still, you know, delusional about what they are. Like he specifically said, look, we're close. And, you know, he said he's not going to use the injuries as an excuse, but then he referred to the injuries and the health of the team on multiple occasions. That was a bit of a, that was, look, I think, there was a bit of a use carp pitch in there as well, that he continues to take reporters and fans as simple-minded or more simple-minded than he is. But there was also the part about Minusky being involved in some of these meetings. I'm surprised that you didn't mention either one of those.

Well, again, my expectations are so low, I expect anything. You know, as far as We're close. It's nothing that we haven't heard from Jay Gruden. Jay Gruden said the same thing. True. You know, we're close. And he'd say the same thing, injuries are in an excuse. But then when I called him on it, he went through all the injuries that they had. So, I mean, that, that mentality exists inside Redskins Park doesn't surprise me.

And, you know, whatever he said about Minusckey sitting in on the interviews, we don't know if that's true. Yeah, I don't think it is. We really don't know if that's true Because that's That's sort of like I mean that's That's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's That's that's that's that's that's

I'm sure feels humiliated within his peer group I mean you know within other coaches around the lead We see what's going on here And see what he's being subjected to I I'm not so true we should just buy into the fact that Bruce remember Bruce

was the one who said Scott McLuhan was preparing his grandmother's funeral four weeks after she died. So, I mean, I think, I think he's a blatant liar. Yeah, I really felt that it was probably more or less him talking about Minusky being involved in meetings, but not the meetings for his replacement, like meetings to replace Kirk Alavaddi or Tori and Gray, you know, the other the other position coaches perhaps was what he's referring to is he tried to, you know, deflect and not necessarily answer those questions specifically. In other words, a kernel of truth, but not close to the real truth. That's right.

I also thought the part where, you know, he, and he's done this before, and it really is to me maybe him at his most disingenuous. And that is when people, and I, I forget who it was who asked about, you know, is there a need for a general manager? You know, and he said, I'm very confident in Doug Williams and Alex Santos and Kyle Smith and Eric Schaefer. And he's constantly referring to all of these people that have these titles in a way in which he wants you to, you know, leave the conversation thinking, ah, he's not actually as involved as people say he is, but he is. Hence, Doug Williams really had no idea that the Alex Smith trade, and he was surprised on that morning and told, you know, don't answer your phone.

But that's been a go-to move for him to push everybody else out there and try to hide behind, hey, you know, we're a consensus group and I'm just overseeing the whole thing, but we've got talented people making the decisions. But let's think about what they're trying to accomplish here. I mean, did anyone, does anyone who has at least, you know, been so disgusted, any fans out there that are on the level of disgust with this franchise, do you think that he convinced them of anything? No, and to your first point, I don't know that he could have turned anybody off even more. I think the biggest takeaway from all of that was, oh my God, he thinks we're close, and they're fine with being nine and seven in a wild card team. Like, that's what they aspire to. Yeah.

I think that was, that may have been more of the headline than anything else, but that's not a surprise, but it was just confirmed, you know, recently, as in two days ago. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, basically, they are at the point where, They're not going to convince anyone who has given up on them that they could be taken seriously. And they're down to their core group that unless Bruce Allen is arrested by the FBI, that core group's never going to give up on them. They're down to the bare bones.

Yeah, they are. And so nothing Bruce Allen says is going to turn off that core or convince the ones who are, jumping ship to get back on. All right. The Hall of Fame. I wanted to get your quick thoughts on that. Mariano Rivera, Martinez, Halliday, Musina. All four of them were on your ballot. Anything surprise you? I was surprised that Messina gained so much momentum over the last couple years by doing basically

nothing. I mean, this guy, like I said, when he retired, he fell off the face of the earth. he went back to Montfortville and Central PA and he coaches high school basketball and this is a smart guy who could have done anything in the game from the broadcast booth to anything to be a front office executive but he just disappeared and let his track record of work speak for itself

and he went from I think 21% of the vote the first year he was eligible to just getting over 75% I was pleasantly surprised I always thought He was a Hall of Famer. In the 10 years he spent with the Orioles, four of those teams had losing records, and he had a winning record in three of those four seasons. He pitched in a band box ballpark in the American League

with the designated hitter and in a steroid era, and he was consistent. So he's the best pitcher I ever saw day in and day out. That was a pleasant surprise. Mariano Rivera 100%. Look, I've never bought into the idea that you make a guy wait. I mean, a guy's a Hall of Famer or not, so I vote for guys when they first become eligible.

But it's just as interesting that five, six, seven years ago, we didn't know what to make of closers. We didn't know their value when it came to Hall of Fame voting. You know, I mean, a guy who pitches one inning a game, how do we quantify that in terms of fame? but he was so overwhelming and so dominant in that role that he just crushed that notion. And of all guys to get 100%, I think it's funny that it's a closer who gets 100%. Back to Musina for a moment.

So if there wasn't this promotional push from him or any of his people, what was the difference over the years? You know, it could have been the change of the game to, even though wins and losses don't count among the geeks. He has 270 career wins. Nobody's going to get over that ever again. You're never going to, I mean, in this day and age with specialist relief pitchers, you're not going to see a guy get to 200 career wins unless Bartolo Colon pitches until he's 65. Nobody else is going to get to that mark. So maybe people looked at the 200.

70 wins and said, wow, this is over 18 seasons, this is an impressive, you know, amount of victories. And just the disappearing starting pitcher may have made Messina more attractive. All right. And you know what? In Washington for the nationals, you're all going to have a chance to go through the same thing again and enjoy it because Max Scherzer will be up on that state. some day. Any thoughts on Clemens or Bonds and where they got to at 59 and a half percent and

just over 59 percent for bonds? You know, their finish was a lot less than what was projected, I think. I'm surprised they're still in the 50s at this point. I think they only got two shots left at the apple. And they've got a weak field coming up in their final year of new guys on the ballot. But But while I thought their chances were increasing, I thought they would have taking a bigger leap. They have 15% of the vote to go to get back on there. They just may not get in, which is fine with me because I don't vote for them. You know, I actually recorded an interview with Steve Sands, which people are going to hear after this conversation. And before we, you know, we got done talking and then he had a quick five.

follow up for me and he said to me, said, why is there no buzz for Bryce Harper? Why is the buzz low on this Harper free agency? He feels that way, you know, from Orlando or from whatever tour stop he's on. He doesn't think that it's getting quite the attention that he thought it would. Do you agree with that? I sort of agree with that. I don't feel like it's, there's this obsession with, you know, a guy that people thought was, you know, a superstar in the game. and this free agency had been long, you know, anticipated? You know, he's probably right. There may be some fatigue set in.

I think in the early days of it in December, I think there was a lot more buzz about it than there is now. I mean, we're at the end of January, and I think there's just maybe some fatigue set in that people are tired of wondering where he's going to sign. So that, they may have lost some steam just over the course of how long it has taken. If he had signed in December when I think there was a lot more interest and momentum,

it would be a bigger deal. But here we are, what, January 24th, and neither one of these guys signed? I would not have predicted that, and I think that's taken some of the steam out of it. And I got to tell you, you know, Bryce, I don't know who handles Bryce Harper's Twitter account, if it's him or if it's somebody else. But I think it's, for lack of a better word, it's kind of low that he seems to like to play games with his Twitter account about people speculating

where he's going to sign. Like he will take something, like somebody will write a story about where he might sign or somebody might ask. And he'll retweet it with, you know, like with question marks, or with eyes looking at it. And it's almost, I mean, if you're a Nationals fan,

you really want to see, you know, the guy who was the star of your team playing around with the idea of where he's going to play next year. It's sort of like a cat, you know, playing with a little mouse that's trapped in a box. I don't like it. Yeah, I feel the same way. But I think that that's also reflective of his generation.

They're consumed with the reporting and the reaction to this. But going back to what Steve said to me, and I don't think that was part of our interview. I think it was right before I hung up with him after we finished recording the interview. I would think on some level that Scott Boris and Bryce Harper are a little bit disappointed, that the attention isn't even greater. And certainly the money isn't going to be where they thought it would be a year ago. I'm more, I think the latter I think they're probably much more disappointed about it. certainly not the $400 million figure that everybody thought, including me,

that he would be approaching unless somehow Boris, and I don't underestimate him, his ability to pull a team, a rabbit out of his hat, and stun everybody with a final decision. I mean, the longer it goes, it seems like, you know, the Nationals offer was a good offer. And it's still in play, I think, because let's say someone will offer some $350 million over 10 years. Are the nationals really going to let Bryce Harper leave for $5 million a year, which is what it would come down to? I mean, nobody's going to do that. That would be foolish.

So unless it's like a dramatically different annual amount, why wouldn't you just say, okay, we'll do that. you know if he ends up I'm thinking now he might wind up back in Washington you know if he ends up back in Washington okay so you've changed your mind on the Dodgers well you know there's no reason to think they're in it other than I mean I you know I did the math and it made sense to me

but there's nothing else to indicate that the Dodgers are in it so I mean I just may be you know holding up a false flag okay so for those of you that will hear me ask Steve Sands or tell Steve Sands that Tommy still thinks that the Dodgers are the landing spot. Tommy's just updated that before we run the Steve Sands interview. I could actually go back and put the Sands interview before Tommy's conversation, but I don't

want to do that. I want to put Tommy up high in the show. Not that I don't want to have Sands up high in the show either. Okay, stop talking, Kevin. You better know the pecking order. Stop talking, Kevin. Yeah, well, you would be upset. Sands couldn't care less. But to your point on Harper, you know, one of the, if he ends up in Washington, then his best move in hindsight, hindsight's always 50-50, as Steve Spurrier once said, would have just to, it would have been to take the immediate offer back in, you know, in the fall whenever it was offered,

and stay in Washington, because I think what this process has really, has really reflected on some level is that he wasn't as saw, after and this Bryce Harper free agency mania never materialized. It actually on some level, I think, has hurt his reputation a little bit. You know, you have a good point. I mean, in terms of marketing, it's not something he can take and say, look at how the whole off-season was about me.

Now, you know, within the baseball industry, it has been. But, you know, outside of that in the sports world, in the daily sports world, it's lost a lot of steam. So I think you're right. I think your point is well taken. But I don't think – but again, if he signs in Washington, I know he's got an underarmor marketing deal that pays him more based on where he signed. And Washington isn't one of those places. So, I mean, in a way, if he stays in Washington, it's sort of like waving that white flag of saying, well, you know, maybe I'm not the mover and shaker that I think I am. On the other hand, it would be a great victory for the city of Washington as a sports town if Bryce Harper decides to spend the next 10 years here.

All right. I'll let you run. That was all I needed from you unless you've got something else. Now, I got nothing else, boss. That's the best I can do. What's that good enough for you? No, it's great. But, you know, you're busy and you're in the car, and you guys are headed somewhere,

and it's nice when older people travel together. So I want you to enjoy your time off, and we'll talk on Tuesday. You want to talk to Liz? Do you want to put her on the show? I would love to talk to Liz. Liz and I have a lot to talk about. She doesn't want anything to do with you. Yeah, we got a lot to talk about.

It's been a while. I know. You both have a lot to talk. Yeah, we do. All right. Have a good trip. and I'll talk to you next week. All right, boss. All right, see you. Tom, everybody.

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And again, you can find everything you need to know about Farish at Farishcars.com, live pricing, live inventory, and their best deals. All right, let's get to some golf because Tiger Woods opens up his season today at Torrey Pines in lovely La Jolla, Southern California. Steve Sands is there for the Golf Channel and for CBS this weekend as well. and you see him on NBC all the time. And he's a good friend, and he's a massive, as most of you know, D.C. sports fan having grown up here. By the way, in just referring to lovely La Jolla, what is your favorite tour stop?

Next week, the Waste Management Phoenix Open in Scottsdale is the best week of the year in golf. It's the only time of year in golf where you actually feel like you're at a massive sporting event with crazy crowds and cheering and booing. people who are hammered and just having a good time, you know, that kind of thing. Next week is the coolest week of the year on tour. They couldn't do it every week, Kevin, but next week is the coolest week of the year on tour. But this week might be the prettiest place. I mean, my gosh. I mean, San Diego, La Jolla, Del Mar.

I mean, this is a fabulous place. Yeah, it really is the, you know, the Scottsdale tournament next week is also typically right on Super Bowl weekend as well. And I remember one of the Arizona Super Bowls that I was out there for just being there the week of the Super Bowl and that tournament. And that place was a madhouse. And there is no other tour stop like it where fans are encouraged to be as loud as they can and as raucous as they can. And it's quite a week in Scottsdale for a lot of reasons next week is. All right.

Correct. You know, it's the only event. It's the only event of the year. the PGA tour that wants to be Super Bowl weekend. You know, that's, Super Bowl weekend has become a national holiday. Right. And Scottsdale, the event on the PGA tour, they want to be at. So it's the only event that transfers from network.

You know, the only two networks you have golf are CBS and NBC. So this year, CBS has the Super Bowl. And sometimes when we have the, when CBS has a Super Bowl, we have the waste management Phoenix open on NBC. When NBC or Fox has the Super Bowl, CBS has it. So once every third year, we get to do it on NBC, and it is a blast, man. It is a lot of fun. You know what I just noticed about you when we got ready to call?

You have a Twitter account, but you don't participate on Twitter. You don't participate in social media, period, do you? I do not. If I want to call you or text you, I just call you or text you. Would you and Tommy go back and forth all the Twitter nonsense? Are you going to answer back and are you going to talk to them? I don't have time for that garbage. Let you and Van Pelt and all the bigwigs have your Twitter.

Yeah. I just lay in the weeds. You know, I don't even know how to get on Twitter. I don't care to get on Twitter. I don't want to do social media. No Facebook. You know, Valerie does all that. I don't care about any of that social media stuff.

If I want to call you and Van Pelt and all the boys talking about Maryland hoops and the skins and the caps or whoever we're talking about, just text you're calling. I've got no time for social media. You know what? I really admire that. I really do because I don't really enjoy it either. Yeah, you sneaky enjoy it. No, I, the truth of the matter is I'm not even on, like, I'm not on Facebook anymore. I got the hell off Facebook a few years ago. And now with this podcast, you know, Aaron created a Facebook page for the show because apparently it's very important in the promotion of the podcast, and I'm more on Twitter now for the sole purpose of, you know, it's the way to promote the podcast to listeners, to remind them that it's up, to remind them of, you know,

specific interviews like this one, you know, I'll put it out later on that I talk to Sands and you can find it at a certain timestamp. But I'm with you. I don't really enjoy it. I'd much rather pick up the phone and call you or text back and forth with you like we do all the time during games. And the, you know, the only thing about Twitter is you do get some, you know, instant feedback, but I always felt on radio that you got that anyway from calls and other forms. But whatever. I admire it. I really do. But I've heard, well, but I've heard you say, I mean, people who work at NBC and at Golf Channel, the two places I work, they're always saying, hey, you think you should be on Twitter. Right. I really don't want it. I like it,

you know, like Cornizer. I have, I, I like it when people come. up and say hello. I think it's really cool. I talk to them. I chat with them. Have fun with them. But the nonsense of all that, I think people are mean on Twitter. It gives people who are mean and angry to have this forum that makes them feel like they're more important than they are. You know, we don't call these people when they make a mistake at work. I mean, like I listen to you. I get to hear your show every day, Kevin, and that's the beauty of the podcast. And for those of us who are massive sports fans from D.C., I get to hear it every day. You, Aaron, and it's comedy and all your guests, it's fabulous.

But the one thing that you lost and you say it all the time on your show is the intimacy of giving those phone calls daily so that you get that immediate reaction from your viewers and the fans out there. That's great. But man, they get mean on Twitter and they get nasty on Twitter. They don't just debate sports or talk sports or have fun. And I just think social media sometimes has lost its way and given people a forum or just be mean and nasty.

and I'd rather just be a sports fan and talk and debate sports and who's the best. Is Brady the winningest quarterback or is he the greatest quarterback? As opposed to just getting beat and nasty to people like people do on social media. Yeah, I think I agree with everything you said. I think the one thing when you do a long-form talk radio show, or in my case right now, a podcast, the one thing that it's helpful for is it does give you ideas. And every day, I mean, you know, you know this. You know, every day you've got to come up with a new, you know, way to talk about sometimes the same things, you know, and do it in a creative way.

And I do think that, and I've always felt this way about the callers, the listeners, just in general. And it wasn't that I loved the calls. There were times where I thought they were great, especially on days after games, you know, the emotion of the market, you know, after a game. I do miss that to a certain degree. But I think what happens is, well, what I say. saying is I think that most of the people that listen to the podcast or listen to the radio show, I think they're really smart. I think we have a smart fan base. And I think there's some really good ideas that come out of it. But you, but you're right. There are plenty of people that are on there

just to try to make your life miserable. But anyway, I noticed that this morning. I wanted to bring it up. Let's get to Tiger. Before we get to some of the predictions that basically is the thing that everybody's doing here over the last few days for Tiger in 2019. Does it make sense to think that he should be better this year than he was last year because he may be stronger, he may be more confident, he had a season to compete and to get back into that competitive environment? Is it reasonable to think that he should be better? Yes. I know he's a year older, which usually in sports means that you're not going to get better at this age, not when you're in your 20s, but But you're in your mid-40s, 43 years old now.

I think the win at the Tour Championship, Kevin, was big because mentally, which is amazing because he's the most mentally tough athlete I've ever been around on my life. And mentally, he got across the finish line for the first time. So he knows he can now do it. It was a limited field. It was a perfect circumstance. Only 30 guys in the field.

Most of the time, every single week, he's playing against 144, 156 guys. so the chances are less. But there's no question he should be better. If he stays healthy, if his back is okay, there's no question he will be a better golfer this year than he was last year. Will the scene be the same this year, everywhere he goes? I mean, the scene in Atlanta at the Tour Championship was just incredible. Will we get the same response? Will the ratings be the same?

Or was last year unique in some way? the ratings will be the same if not higher and if he gets into the mix like he did at the tour championship you'll see crazy numbers like that coming down the stretch on Sundays whether it's on you know RAR on NBC or on CPS he just draws like nobody else you and I Kevin are as big as sports fans as we know and nobody moves the needle more in his or her sport like Tiger does. It's incredible. It's unreal.

The difference between what he's in the mix and when he's not in the mix as far as the television ratings. So I think the ratings will be there. They will always be there for Tiger. He's just that big of a draw. You won't see a scene like that at the Tour championship with all those people pouring down 18

because I think the PGA tour got really nervous that something bad could have happened their security-wise. I was in the middle of it, and it was fabulous. I thought it was great. Tiger thought it was great. His Kenny Joey Lachava thought it was great. There was not an issue to be found. There wasn't anybody having any kind of weirdness or uncomfortability. Nobody was uncomfortable at all, but I don't think the tour wants to have that.

So the crowds will be here and the ratings will be there, but I don't think you'll see all those people pouring on to the fairway like we did it at Eastlake in Atlanta last September. There may not be an answer to this question, but I'm just curious. Is there a place where Tiger Mania is greatest? You know, whether it's, you know, overseas or here or a venue here, is there a specific place that just is so waiting for his big moment and Tiger obsessed? Well, there are a couple places where he's had crazy success. This is one of them, Tori Pies. Ironically, the last time he wanted a major was the U.S. Open at Tori.

Pines. I was in 2008. That's 11 years ago. It's amazing. He's won here eight times, seven times at this event, the Farmers Insurance Open. He's from this part of the country. He's from Southern California, just up the road from here. They love him here, but you're going to love this. Not that I have an East Coast bias, but people out here, they don't care about sports as much as we do. Right. Yeah, it's too nice. It's pretty. I'm looking at the Pacific Ocean. There are a lot of things to do here. When he goes to Orlando at Bay Hill, he used to live in Orlando. He's won at Bay Hill, like he has here at Torrey Ponds a million times.

They love him there. But the place where he gets the most reaction and the loudest is pretty obvious. It's in New York. New York, as much as I love D.C., Philly, New York, Boston, D.C., best sports fans in America. The York, they're the best. They're the loudest. They're the most knowledgeable.

They have the high end and the lower end. They get right up in their drill, and he gets an amazing, amazing reception when he's there. Either New York or places, Kevin, where he has not been in a long time. When he goes to a tournament per se, somewhere, and he hadn't been there in five or six years, the place goes absolutely crazy.

But they go crazy for him everywhere he goes. Yeah, Beth Page for the PGA in May. Could be insane. Could be insane. It's insane. How about the Ryder Cup there in 24? Right. It's going to be. New York sports fans are fantastic.

And you know what? With the British Open, with the Open Championship, being in Ireland for, is this the first time in Ireland or the first time in forever in Ireland? First time in 56 years. Northern Ireland. It's going to be insane. That'll be insane. We, you know, we Irish can get a little bit fired up for a tiger run at a major.

All right, let's get a little loose in Ireland. Just a little loosened up there. How many times will he win this year? And where? Like, where do you think he's going to win? I think he'll win once, and I think it'll be at Bay Hill. Or the memorial. And I only say that because of scheduling.

If he allows himself to play a little bit, I don't think he's going to win this week because he hasn't played so long. And then he takes a little bit of a break, and then he goes to L.A. And then he takes a little bit of a break. And I just think Bay Hill is a perfect spot for him in Orlando or the Memorial, Jack's Tournament, outside Columbus, Ohio, and Don't win Ohio. Those two. I don't think he's going to win a major.

I think he's going to win either Bay Hill or the Memorial. Well, that's interesting because at his age now, if you don't think he's going to win a major this year, do you think he'll ever win one? No. Did you feel the same? It's crazy. It's insane, and I'm saying that because he's Tiger Woods. He's the greatest player of his generation.

I just don't think he's going to. Although I will say, Kevin, this is the year. Augusta National, although he has a one since 2005, but Augusta National, he's won there four times. Bethpage Black, he won a U.S. Open there, and they're playing the PGA there. The U.S. Open in June is at Pebble Beach. He's won a U.S. Open at Pebble Beach.

and then Northern Ireland, Royal Port Rush in July for the Open, nobody's played there. Roy McElroy has a nice advantage because he's forward and raised there, but nobody's played an open there. So if there is a year where he's going to win one, this is the year. The setup for him is perfect. So maybe he'll make a run at one of them.

I just don't think he's going to get across the finish line. These guys are not intimidated by him anymore. He's a great player. He's an icon. He's their hero. but they're not afraid of him like his contemporaries were. I mean, he had a legitimate chance to win two majors last year. Yep.

And what happened? He didn't win him. I'll give you a short recap. At the open, which we had, he had the lead all by himself on the 11th T. On the 11th T. And he had an iron into the garbage and double bogey. That was when the guy yelled what cheesery and had a cap sat on. When he hit the guy in the head, he had the cap sat on.

He had the cap Stanley Cupado, which was fantastic. And then he bogeed the 12, and that was the end of him. He was playing alongside Francesco Molinari, the guy who won. That would never have happened in his heyday, ever. That guy would have crumbled early. Francesco never crumbled once. Three weeks later at the PGA championship, Brooks Keppka outlasted Tiger. Tiger played great.

Tiger didn't lose that one like he did the open. He just got beat. There's a big difference. in sports between losing and getting beaten. And he got beaten by a better player that day, Brooks Kepka. And what did Kepka say afterwards when he was asked about Tiger? Yeah, I saw him coming. I saw it on the board.

I could hear all the noise all over the golf course. I thought it was really cool. It was awesome. In their heyday, the other guys would have crumbled at that moment. These guys aren't afraid of him, Kevin. I don't see him winning a major. You're on the low end, right? based on your media contemporaries in terms of the predictions for Tiger.

Some are predicting he'll win four or five times on tour this year in a major, if not two. Yeah, I'm on the low end. Yeah. I think the tour championship, Kevin, again, 30 guys, perfect situation for him to win. He only had to beat 29 other guys. And halfway through the event, half the guys in the field, are so far out of it, it doesn't matter. That's fair.

So it's a short field, and I think like a short line, always take that short side. Yeah. And, you know, not only he was in the FedEx Cup chase there at the end as well, which was crazy with Justin Rose. It was crazy. Yeah. It was crazy.

It was an insane week. It was great. And he deserved a win. He earned the victory. I just think in a full field playing four days. I don't know. I've got to wait and see. I've got to see how it plays out first before I take him.

What's going on with Spieth? Man, he needs to turn it around. I think he's going to be okay. He's too good a player, too good a guy, too smart a guy, too smart a player. His golf acumen is really high, Kevin. I think he needs to enjoy it a little bit more. He's not enjoying it the way he did. He had such great start-up, rocketed, you know, to this crazy.

status in the game. And I think all the things that come with that kind of ate away in him a little bit. I'd like to see him. I sound like a father here, but I'd like to see him enjoy it just a little bit more, smile a little bit more like he used to. Don't grind as much. The putting

stroke will come back. It's too good. He's too good a player. I think he'll be okay, but he needs to get it turned around. It gets sideways in this sport more so than any other sport because of the lack of guarantees and the mental the toughness it takes in this sport, but he is mentally tough, and I think he'll be okay. I think,

I think he'll be okay. For those that are going to watch for the first time this weekend, these tigers involved, just give us 30 seconds on the flag stick remaining in the hole while people are putting new rule. Man, that's bizarre. You are now allowed, the USGA changed the rule January 1st. You're not allowed to lead the flag stick in any time. If you and I are out they're playing in golf cart shorts and a couple of beers or the professionals. It's going to look really strange. If you turn on the TV today tomorrow, Saturday or Sunday to watch Tiger, whoever else this week, they are allowed to do it any time they're on the green.

Some guys will do it. Some guys won't. A lot of guys will do it where the puts are longer. The shorter puts, probably not. But it is going to look bizarre for anybody who has any type of golf knowledge to see. the best players of the world leave the flags to get, but it is totally illegal. So why did they do this? What was the rationale? Pace of play. They want me and you to play in a quicker pace because they think that they're

losing me and you to time and kids and sporting events and life and games and all these different things. The game has become difficult for, you know, like, let's put it this way. My dad, when I was a kid, my dad would go play golf if he had a chance. He didn't go to all our games. Now, dads, the way society works, dads go to games. Dads go to practices. Dad's coaches. Dad's coaches.

Dad's all that stuff. And they don't have as much time to play the game. So you want to get kids involved. Kids with video games and all these different things, Xbox, blah, blah, blah. Their attention span is shorter than when we were kids, which is hard to believe because our attention span wasn't very long either. But you want to get kids involved in the game so it doesn't take as long, and you want to get parents, moms, and dads, and people like that,

to be able to play the game not as long. So all of these rule changes were to make the game easier and better and more enjoyable and also speed up the pace of play. And it doesn't sound like a lot, Kevin, but if you take a minute or 90 seconds off of each hole, you're talking about a half hour less. You know, you're talking about 20 to 30 minutes less. That's a lot. It's a lot for people who say, that's too long.

I can't play. I can't get away for work that long. They try to make it easier, better, more enjoyable, and also quicker to play. For those that don't play golf, when they see this, it'll be odd if they just watch golf. But is there an advantage? I mean, on a downhill putt or a longer putt that may have some more sense. speed at the hole, it's an advantage to have the flagstick in the hole. Correct? It is and it isn't. It depends. What people don't realize, Kevin, is that when you and I go

play golf, we're not playing with the same flag stick at the PGA Tour playing. The PGA Tour flagstick is a regulated flagstick each and every week on the PGA Tour. That's the different flagstick than what we hit. From what is it? Are you talking about dimension, size? Dimensions, thicker, stronger, that kind of thing. So if you're putting downhill on faster greens, you're going to probably leave it in more often. But if you don't hit it square, Kevin, it could go farther than it would if you would have just missed a hole.

Sure, sure. So these guys happen to be better than us. So it's more of an advantage for them. When they know, you know, this week on slower, bumpier greens, I think, you know, perhaps you won't see it as much. But I think at Augusta, if they allow it, by the way, there's a little bit of a conversation that Augusta is not going to allow it, that they're going to implement a local rule and not allow it because they just don't want the optics of that at the Masters. Interesting.

And that's fine, because they're allowed to do that. A U.S. Open can do that. They could do it here in La Loya, they wanted to, but they won't. So it's an advantage to the guys. who have done the research and practiced it and think that they can square up and hit it. It also is an advantage, Kevin, like I said, the longer putts gives them a little bit more of a point of reference as opposed to just seeing the cup, you know, almost like an optical illusion. All right. You've been a warrior on this call because you've got a cold and I want you to save your voice.

But do you have anything that you'd like to say about our Redskins, Caps, Wizards, Terps, any of the teams that you root for? Do you want to have a conversation about anything? You're a kind man. No, I will be very quick. The caps will be fine. It's a perfect time for the break. They can use a little bit more strength from the guys standing up behind the players on the bench

like they had in the last few years with trots. But I think the talent will wear out and they'll get into the playoffs and they'll be fine. Well, they make a run of the cup, who knows. But they'll be okay. The six-game blip here. The break is coming at the perfect time. Let's put it that way. The Terps are good.

They're young. They got bullied and they got spanked around the other night by Michigan State, but that's okay. It's a learning lesson. I think it's a sneaky big spot for Illinois Northwestern here. If we can win these next two games, get back on track. I think everything will be fine. They get a little squirly here, not so much, but I think they're going to be fine.

They're good. I think Turgeon is having his best season as a coach. I think the players are good and they're young. And I agree with you, man. Sticks need to come back because he got muscled. the other night at the Brazil center. My gosh. And the skins are a mess.

I listen to you every day. I listen. I listen and laugh. It's just baffling to me how anybody could not want to be walking into Duke Sieber to the palm would be the coolest guy in the room as opposed to staying in your 50,000 square foot man should be a hermit.

It'd be a complete jackass like Snyder is. I don't understand that. It doesn't make any sense to me. And Bruce Allen's an embarrassment to every single person who's ever thought about or wondered what it would be like to be a Redskins fan or play for that team. It's embarrassing that that guy is the face of our franchise. That thing the other day was a joke, man. That guy's a cloud.

Yeah, it was, you know, everybody wanted him to talk, and then he talked and, you know, basically once again, you know, made a fool of himself for the most part. How out of touch can you? Kevin, how out of touch can you be? Seriously. How out of touch can you be? It's impossible. It's a rhetorical question. But I'm asking, literally, how out of touch can you be?

They are, they're detached completely. I, no, no, the last, this particular season in the last month or two has been, I think, you know, startling to even them. I mean, as arrogant as they are, as self-absorbed as they are, I think it's even been, you know, a bit of an eye-opener for them. But again, you know. You do? Do you really think that? Yeah. I do, but again, they don't believe it's their fault.

So therefore, you know, you're not going to really have an urgency to fix it. You know, they, they, I think they were certainly alarmed at the numbers this year. You know, we can talk about the lack of transparency in previous years with respect to attendance, and perhaps it was just as bad. It wasn't, though. I mean, we've never had a home opener like this year's home opener. And we haven't had a six and three team with a home game before Thanksgiving weekend or week. where the stadium was just three quarters filled against Houston.

You know, they felt it, you know, revenue-wise. I don't think there's any question about that, that they see that, they feel that. But again, when you're, you know, when you lack self-awareness and you have the arrogance that they have, they think it's someone else. They don't think it's them. They think they're doing the right things. And that's why, you know, that's one of the reasons you don't see significant change. The other is they don't have many places to turn.

The owner, where's he going to turn? No, I know that. And I listen to every day. And I totally agree with just about everything you guys always say. But I understand the lack of self-awareness. I totally get it. What I don't understand is in that particular business, forget the money. It's a results-oriented business.

And the record is proving out to be a lack of success. So you have to look inward at some point. I mean, it's this 10th year. That is an amazing run in professional sports to have 10 years at this. And Bruce Allen is an embarrassment. I don't understand that. I know he's just drinking money and he likes to party and all that stupid stuff. And every great executive or owner has to have a hatchet man or a bad guy doing the dirty work for him.

I understand that. but I just don't get it. I don't understand how we all want to be liked, Kevin. Who would want to walk into the palm and have everybody, the guy should never be picking up a check in his life. You think Jeffrey Lurie ever picks up a check when he goes to dinner in Philadelphia? Not anymore. Are you kidding me?

That's what I'm saying. Like, who wouldn't want to be doing it the right? Look around the league and see the stability and what stability provides. and I just don't understand it's rhetorical it's a stupid conversation to have because the guy's not going to change but I don't understand why he doesn't want to do better. It doesn't make any sense.

It's, I mean, every time you sit down and you try to seriously think about, you know, his position, Dan's position and what he's thinking and, you know, you said it, it's 10 years, it's a horrible record, but it's beyond that. This guy, you know,

all of them combined, have chased their customers away. You know, they've chased them away, and they've turned what was an incredible business. And I'm talking about the operations of the business, not the value of the brand, you know, via Forbes. They were handed their keys to a Maserati. Right. And they run it into the ground. But here's the answer.

You know, he gets fooled by, you know, part of the fan base that continues to show up for some of these things and make them feel like they're the greatest. and hey, don't worry about it. You really want to win, we get it, and you've had these injuries, and it's too bad because we would have won the Super Bowl the last two years without the injuries. But I think it really speaks to he is a loner, and he doesn't have anywhere else to turn.

And Bruce Allen, for him, has been his voice in these league meetings. He's been his voice to a certain extent publicly in the market and outside of it, and he's uncomfortable with all of that. He doesn't want to be the voice or the face, and he's got nowhere else to turn. You can call him a loader all you want, but you've got to replace the end with an S. Yeah.

He's a loser. He's a loser, and he's a bum, and he's a selfish, lack of self-awareness jerk. And he has to understand. Don't sugarcoat it, honestly. Open up and tell us how you really feel. I don't, you and I don't have a billion dollars, and if we had billions of dollars and we had a chance to buy the Reds. We might have a lot of issues.

We would, well, we would, we've got to. We already do. So my point is, in my opinion, when you own a sports franchise, I don't care if it's a pillar of the league like the Redskins or if it's a Jacksonville Jaguars type situation in a town like that with a team like that without any history. you have a public trust that you own and you have got to nurture it you have got to take care of it you have got to represent the city and the people of the city and the fans of that team in a certain way and he has chosen not to and that's the key Kevin he's chosen not to and that's just unacceptable And I'm telling you, he's going to lose people. You and I are dangling.

I mean, we're dangling. I know. It's the first time I hadn't been to a game in years. This is the first time my father. I'm 49 years old. My parents had season tickets since Griffith Stadium. It's the first time my father has not gone to a game since like 1960. He didn't go to a game.

He's like, forget it. I don't want to go. A lot of people are in the same boat. I know. I don't know. how it changes. I don't know how it changes. I don't think it's going to change either, but we're dangling here. It's a very dangerous territory to completely spit the face of your fans.

It's really, really, and I'm not sure winning turns that around. And by the way, we ain't win it because we're not going to be any good next year either. It doesn't look like it. All right. Thank you. Save up your voice. Have a great weekend. We'll be watching.

Appreciate it. As always. Last thing, Bryce. Phillies or Nats? That's all I want to know. Tommy still thinks Dodgers. Oh, really? Mm-hmm.

Wow. Most people don't. Most people don't. But, you know, it is strange, you know, Kemp and Puege and seemingly clearing all of the room for it. And they're not, he thinks there's going to be a surprise ending here. That's what he thinks, I believe. But anyway. Yeah, I could see that.

All right. Thanks. Appreciate it. And I will be watching a lot of golf starting today through the weekend. hopefully tigers in it. That would be great for you guys on Sunday. All right, but be good. All right, great to catch up with Steve Sands. He had a cold today. Jason Lachamforah had a cold today. But fortunately, I'm not near them. They called in today, so I'm not going to get a cold. I never get sick. Knock on wood. I really can't remember the last time I had a terrible cold or got sick. I probably just jinxed it.

So when we don't have the show next week, you know why. Yeah, I'll just, I'm just going to go load up on some vitamin. see after the show. Real quickly about launch workplaces. If you're looking for a private office solution or a co-working desk, you're working from home, dogs, kids, get in the way of that every once in a while, consider launch workplaces. They have fully furnished offices, a brand new space in Bethesda in Bethesda, Chevy Chase Upper Northwest D.C., this location is phenomenal. Beautiful new space, fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, speed internet, complimentary drinks, free parking, 24-7 access. You can get more work done today by

moving your office to launch workplaces. Call today for an exclusive free two-day trial. 240-67714. Mention my name. You'll get a free two-day trial. You can also go to launchworkplaces.com today and you can see all of their other locations in town as well. That's launchworkplaces.com or 240860. 6714 for more information. All right, thanks to Steve Sands and Jason Lockenforah and Tommy for calling in. Everybody had a cold today. I hope they all feel better.

Enjoy the day. Sorry, we got it out a little bit later than usual again today, but some of these interviews we couldn't schedule earlier. We had to wait for their availability, and we were happy to do that. But back tomorrow. Have a great day.