The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jay Gruden & John Wall React

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Kevin has Jay Gruden on the show today talking NFL Playoffs, Washington Commanders and more. Kevin also opened the show with the latest on Washington's OC search and his reaction to John Wall's news-making podcast interview.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show today presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.,

and they'll double your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand bucks. Right now at MyBooky, the 49ers are minus three. They're down to three over the Cowboys. That line opened at four, four and a half in some, spots. I was way off on that. I guessed after the Cowboys won Monday night that the 49ers would be like a five and a half or six point favorite. They opened up as I think a short dog the Cowboys did, and now it's down to three in a lot of spots, including my bookie. And much of the public action early to midweek has been on San Francisco. I think the Cowboys are going to be a smell

test selection for me on Friday. I actually think that. think Buffalo and Philadelphia are going to be picks for me as well. But lots of information to gather between now and Friday, so we'll see how that works out. MyBooky.ag, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. for a doubling of your first deposit. Jay Gruden's going to be on the show today with me. We'll talk NFL playoffs. We'll talk a lot of Washington commanders as well. Before we get to Jay, though, a few things. First of all, Washington's offensive coordinator search continues. Right now, Washington has interviewed Pat Schumer. That happened yesterday. The team

actually announced that. I mean, news broke on that, but the team is actually putting out on their Twitter account who they're interviewing for the offensive coordinator position. Pat Schumer yesterday, Ken Zampeze, who's already part of the staff as the quarterback's coach, is interviewing for the job today. Charles London, who's a quarterback's coach in Atlanta, There's been a request to interview Charles London. Eric Studsville, who is in Miami currently as a running backs coach, Washington's requested an interview with him. Now, Daryl Beville today turned down a request by the commanders to interview for their opening. He also turned down an interview from the Jets to interview for their opening for offensive.

defensive coordinator. So right now, what we know is Pat Shermer, Ken Zampeze, soon to be Charles London, Eric Studsville, or Studsville, however that's pronounced, actually. Shermer, none of this really excites me, but none of it really disappoints me either. The truth of the matter is, I don't know that Washington, given their ownership situation, which leads to, by extension, a coaching situation, for next year. Ron Rivera looking like a lame duck coach potentially. I don't know what they're going to be able to attract. Pat Schumer didn't coach this year. He's his last two seasons as

offensive coordinator were in Denver under Vic Fangio in the 20 and the 21 season. Before that, he was the head coach of the Giants in 18 and 19. Pat Schumer is a lifer. Pat Schumer's son was on the practice squad as a quarterback here last year, I think it was. Pat Shermer has ties to Ron Rivera. They worked together in Philadelphia in the early 2000s when he was there as a quarterback's coach for Donovan McNabb, and Ron Rivera was on the defensive staff for Andy Reed. There's also the tie that Pat Shermer was hired in New York to coach the Giants by Dave Gettleman, the GM who came from Carolina. So these two know each other, and you're always looking for that with this group.

With the exception of Del Rio, most of the hires have been people that have had ties to Rivera in the past, and Shermer would appear to be one of those. Now, if you're wondering, like, what kind of fit is Shermer? Well, Shermer in his last two years coaching is an OC under Vic Fangio in Denver. offensively in the traditional, you know, average yards per game. They finished 23rd in 2020, 19th in 2021. If you're thinking, hey, what about rushing yards in Denver? Remember, the quarterbacks in Denver those two years were Teddy Bridgewater and Drewlock.

Okay, he didn't have much to work with. He was the head coach and offensive play caller and coordinator for all intensive purposes when he took over the Giants from McAdo in 18 and 19 with Daniel Jones being drafted in 2019. And it didn't work out for him there either. But in the last two years in Denver, without a quarterback, they ended up being the 13th ranked rush offense in the NFL in both 2020 and 2021. on teams that actually were pretty good with the exception of that quarterback, which is why they didn't end up with good records necessarily.

In fact, I think in both of those seasons, I picked before the season started Denver to be a surprise team in the AFC, partly, actually mostly due to the fact that I was always a huge, and still am, a huge Vic Fangio fan, and knew with that defensive talent that they would be nasty on defense. And if they could just get anything offensively, out of whichever quarterback ended up being a part of that group. It might work out. Anyway, Schumer, does it excite me? I don't know. I don't know what they can attract right now.

You know what Ron should do, though, in my opinion, since he had somebody who was new at being an offensive coordinator, is find somebody who's got some real experience. Ron is more of a CEO coach. He is much more of a delegator. He has allowed his coordinators to be much more autonomous than perhaps he did at Carolina. He all but admitted that to me last year when I was doing his weekly in-season appearance on radio, that he's a different coach here, you know, because he's also got organizational responsibilities in this coach-centric model. But, you know, Scott Turner was new. He had not been an offensive coordinator before.

He became an offensive coordinator for the very end of Ron Rivera's final season in Carolina, taking over for his father when Ron Rivera was gone. But anyway, I don't have super strong feelings other than I think what would be best for Ron is to hire somebody with coordinator experience. That would be something that I think makes sense. You've got to have somebody right now. It would appear that also is very quarterback friendly, which I think Pat Schumer is. Pat Schumer, remember, was in Minnesota as the offensive coordinator in 2017 when Mike Zimmer's Vikings made it to the NFC championship game with Case Keenham at quarterback.

By the way, Case Keenham is a free agent. You know, I talked yesterday about the possibility of like, okay, if Sam Howell's the guy, and I don't really believe that the report that we talked about from Jonathan Jones from CBS about Washington telling offensive coordinator prospects that Sam Howell is going to be the QB one next year, I think there's probably some context to that, like, what do you think about Sam Howe? If you're interviewing offensive coordinators, you should be asking questions and listening more than talking and finding out what they think versus telling them what they're going to be doing. At least that would be a significant part of the interview if I were involved in it. But what do I know?

I've never interviewed anybody for offensive coordinator. But I would think that the best course of action is to hear their ideas and to listen to their thoughts about not only Sam, Hal, but Taylor Heineke and even Carson Wentz. Let's not forget, as of right now, Carson Wentz is under contract. I don't think he's going to be under contract for that much longer, but Heineke is not under contract. But think about, you know, yesterday I said, you know, like an Andy Dalton or Jacoby Brissette to go with Sam Howell, maybe Case Keenum, if Pat Shermer gets the job, would be the guy Case Keenum making a return here, potentially, a guy that, you know, was willing to kind of mentor Dwayne Haskins that particular year. And let's not forget Colt McCoy was on that team as well

in 2019. Jay Gruden coach that team. I'll ask Jay about Case Keenum when he comes on. But anyway, I think that's the best course of veteran backup, 4 million bucks a year, 3 million bucks a year. made three million bucks this year. Now, the intention was for him to back up James Winston. You know, in looking at Andy Dalton's year this year, I actually wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Allen, the New Orleans coach, decided to keep Andy Dalton. That team played pretty well down the stretch. If they had not blown a 16 to 3 Monday night lead at Tampa, remember that comeback where Mark Ingram ran out of bounds short of the first down, which would have kept the clock running and New Orleans would have won.

New Orleans was really good on defense, especially second half of the year. Dalton was, you know, solid, had a solid year. James Winston was healthy. Could have come back. They stuck with Dalton. It wouldn't surprise me if Dalton gets re-signed by the Saints since Dennis Allen has been retained. He's not going anywhere where after one year.

I don't know. The Saints could go after somebody as well, you know, a Derrick Carr or somebody like that, Lamar Jackson. I don't know, with Tom Brady. But wouldn't surprise me if Dalton commands maybe a little bit more attention after last year. But Brissette made $4.5 million last year. Dalton made $3 million. That's what you're looking for.

Hal at like a million a year or $900,000 or whatever it is as a fifth round rookie. And then three to four a million on a Brissette or a Dalton or a Case Keenum to be a veteran backup. So if Hal's not the right guy, this season doesn't go to hell in a handbucket. Now you could say, well, Taylor Heineke can do that. I hear you, you know, you're not going to do any better than 500 or a game above or a game below, my opinion. I would go in a different direction. I would go with a veteran backup. Andy Dalton, had Andy Dalton been the quarterback here for 17 games this year, in my opinion, the team would be in the postseason.

They would have made the playoffs. They would have won at least another game or two. I think Andy Dalton was much better than anything they had on their roster. this year. I mean, I don't know if he's much better than Sam Howell at this point, but I feel confident saying that Andy Dalton's better than Carson Wentz and Taylor Heineke. But maybe that, you know, the Shermer thing, Case Keenham, who knows. But that's kind of the direction given the budget thing that we talked about yesterday, the state of ownership, etc. By the way, speaking of ownership,

Yesterday after the podcast, A.J. Perez from front office sports reported that the bidders, and there have been at least a half dozen that put in that first round of bidding, the bidders have been told that Snyder is selling a majority stake in the team. You know, may not be the whole enchilada, but a majority controlling stake in the team. The Post also yesterday had that Snyder's price tag is $7 billion, and that the initial round of bids, as front office sports reported, came in well short of that. But anyway, it'd be interesting just if Snyder ends up selling a controlling majority stake

but keeps 20%, 30% for the family. And he's like, look, I'm going to continue to own some of this team. there might be tax benefits to doing it that way. There certainly could be much more value to his non-controlling stake five years from now than there is now, more likely than not. So we'll see what happens. You know, all we care about, I mean, I don't think we want the Snyders involved at all as minority shareholders. We don't want them involved in any way, shape, or form. but obviously, you know, if somebody's going to pay $6.3 billion in valuation,

and let's say they, you know, call it $7 billion when all is said and done. I don't think it's going to get to that. But if they acquired, let's just say 70% of that at $7 billion, and they're paying $4.9 billion for the 70% stake, you know, it's a controlling stake. They're not going to have the Snyders involved. And they're going to understand, I would hope, the option. of having the Snyders anywhere near the team.

They would have to be really super silent 20 to 30% shareholders living over in Europe or wherever they're moving to. UK people have suggested. A couple of more things real quickly before we get to Jay Gruden. Number one is something that I missed before the podcast yesterday, and that is that Ben Standig reported that Scott Turner was against the Wents trade. He was not on board for the Wents trade last, you know, winter when Washington pulled the trigger on Wence. I don't know who was in favor of what. I believe Ben, by the way.

It doesn't surprise me that Scott Turner wasn't on board for Wence. I have found, and I know that this is going to bother some of you, I've actually found Scott Turner to be pretty bright. and while, you know, again, I'm fine, fine with them moving on from Turner and looking for a new and better and more experienced offensive coordinator, it wouldn't surprise me, it doesn't surprise me, that Turner would have been one of the cooler heads in the room to say, wait a minute here, what are we doing? Two teams running them out at great expense. You know, at the very least, can we just tread lightly on this thing? We probably don't have to give up much for them. But the rest of the crew super ginned up and ready to pull the trigger in a deal in which they were completely fleeced in because they were too excited about the deal in the moment and too

desperate in the moment. That's my take on it. I mean, the final price for Carson Wentz, obviously, even those of you who didn't think so at the time, exorbitant for a guy of his and for ultimately, you know, what you got out of him. And, you know, we don't know what you would have got out of him had he not been healthy. But the guess here is it wouldn't have been very good. Again, the only thing that they did right in that entire deal is not restructure his deal for a lower cap number in 2022 once he got here. I don't think Scott Turner was thrilled with Wentz. I don't think he was thrilled at some point, late at the last.

in the season with Heineke either. That is my, let's just say, educated hunch. I think that they were really frustrated with the quarterback play overall and the lack of the ability to score and to move the football consistently through the air. Again, the irony of it all is that the best game Taylor Heineke played was the San Francisco game until the turnovers. The job, the job. The Giants games are the games that they will look back on and we'll look back on, I think. Actually, the Cleveland game, of course. But the Cleveland game, again, and I will remember this, some of you won't. It wasn't a game in which your defense gave you much of a chance to win the game, even if you had played better on offense. I will not ever have my mind changed that Taylor

Heineke starting that game would have meant that they would have won that game. I know Kool-Ineke, feels like it would have been a more competitive game. Tommy, of course, is convinced that they would have won the game, and it's a fireable offense that they started Carson Wentz. I think they had gotten to the point, and I think it's convenient sort of revisionist history on how bad Heineke had been in those two giant games, even though he had played well in the 49er game. But he also was responsible for two killer turnovers in the 49er game. The guy had turned the ball over five times in your three biggest games of the year up until that point. You know, four turnovers, five fumbles, four turnovers.

And five turnovers, actually, I think it was total. You know, and the Giants, let's face it, I mean, you can talk about the Giants being, you know, a good football team now. You know, heading into that game against Washington, you know, the Giants had just, you know, the Giants had lost two in a row going into the first game against Washington, and we're really falling apart at the seams. They had lost to the Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day and had been blown out by the Lions. They also had barely survived the Texans in a win. And then after tying Washington, they got absolutely throttled by the Eagles 48 to 22. So you can, you know, you can talk about,

well, look, the Giants got, you know, into the divisional playoff round. So they lost a really good team and they tied a really good team. The Giants weren't a really good team when Washington played them, the first time in particular. I'd say the second time too. Washington wins that Sunday nighter. They would have played Minnesota. They might still be playing right now, even though they weren't a good team either. And the Giants would look back on and say, how do we lose to that team? But the Giants did have a better quarterback in both games. That's 100% true. All right. Last two things I want to get to here real quickly. The athletics reporting that Rui Hachamura is on the market, that the wizards are trying to trade Rui Hachamura.

I think that from my perspective, Kyle Kuzma is the key here. I like Hachamura. I like him more than I thought I would like him after they drafted him because I was a much bigger Brandon Clark fan out of Gonzaga off that Gonzaga team than I was a Hachamura fan. But Hachamara's got a lot of talent. He really does. But the key here is Kuzma. Because Kuzma's got a player option next year for $13 million. He's going to decline that.

And if the Wizards feel like they can't resign Kyle Kuzma, they can't trade Hachemura. So if they do trade Hachamura, it must mean that they feel like they've got a really good chance of retaining Kyle Kuzma. after the year is over. I don't know what you get for Hachamura. I would assume the Wizards are looking for, you know, a player of his caliber or a pick back, you know, preferably a first round pick.

He was, what, the ninth overall pick in the first round? His availability has been a problem. So apparently there's interest and what the Wizards can actually get, for Rui Hachamura will depend on how much interest there is. You need several teams highly interested. But I think if they deal him, it should be a sign that the Wizards believe that they can retain Kyle Kuzma, which I would much prefer over Hachamura in terms of moving forward. But you can't lose both of them. And you certainly can't lose Kuzma before the trade deadline if you're not going to be able to re-sign him. Because then you should.

you trade him because you're going nowhere this year. So make sure if you're going to lose Kuzma, you get some value because there's interest in Kyle Kuzma as well. We've known that for a while. Last thing before we get to Jay Gruden. So a friend of mine texted me during the radio show this morning and he said, you've got to watch the John Wall interview, the John Wall interview that he did with Theo Pinson, who is a former North Carolina player. I think he plays for the Mavericks, and some other guy named A.J. Richardson for a podcast called Title League. And I said, why? He, and then I started reading, he's made a lot of headlines with a lot of things that he has said in that podcast. The podcast interview was an hour and 50 minutes with John Wall,

an hour and 50 minutes. And he said a lot of things. He said that he got, North Carolina would have been the school he would have gone to. That's where he grew up, you know, in that area. And the heels were everything to any kid in North Carolina. And he showed up for his recruiting trip, and Tyler Hansbro basically said to him, I don't talk to recruits. And Wall said, I'm not coming to Carolina then. Tyler Hansbrough, by the way, on social media, completely denied that happening and said, it's a lie that John Wall's lying about it. He talked about getting traded from the Wizards, that Russell Westbrook was the guy that basically reached out to him to say, D.C. wants me. They want to trade for me and trade you. And John Wall was not happy with the way the whole thing happened.

There's a lot that's great in this interview. But let me just tell you the overriding thought and takeaway for me before I play a specific part of the interview. John Wall was a great interview in this particular podcast. I mean, engaging, storytelling, really good memory about a lot of things, and other things he missed on a player or missed on a game because I remember some of these games as well. But he was never that way when dealing with local media when he was a player here. I don't want to say he was a bad interview. I had John Wall probably on my show, I don't know, 3.5. four or five times during his time here, maybe more than that. I forget. And the truth of the matter is, I never really thought that he was a great interview. And that could have been also because

I wasn't doing a good job asking him questions and getting him engaged like these two gentlemen did, because they grew up in the same area with John. They were familiar with the entire high school basketball scene in Raleigh and, you know, the AAU scene and there are great stories. And John's memory of, of AAU games and high school games and relationships. He's just, he was a phenomenal storyteller in this interview. I was blown away with, by the way, also just how engaging and charismatic wall was. It's like a different dude than the dude I remember. Now, Chris Miller, I think, of the local media people, probably got to know John and all of the wizards better than anybody.

And Chris, I know, as always said, he loved John, thought he was just a super nice kid. And look, the trade to the rockets, the wizards were pissed. He was in that photo for his birthday in New York with flashing gang signs or whatever it was. Really pissed Ted Leonis off in the organization. And ultimately, that's why they traded him. had had it with him. Here's the part I'm going to play. Recommendation, if you're a Wizards fan and you care and you remember his time here,

because I know a lot of you aren't. I am. Recommendation, watch this. It's on YouTube. Just Google John Wall interview, podcast interview. He's just, it's great. But the part that I'm going to play for you is the part he comes off talking about the 2016-2017 team that the Wizards had that lost to the Celtics in seven games. Remember, that was the

closest they actually got to the Eastern Conference Finals, although the year before that, John broke his hand early in that series and they lost him against Atlanta. And I thought, I actually think that team should have been and would have beaten the Hawks and gotten to the Eastern conference finals. The next closest was the Celtics the following year. John had a phenomenal series in the conference semifinal. I'm sorry, in the first round against the Hawks. He had one of the great games in wizard slash bullets playoff history, the closeout game that he had where he went for 43 in that closeout game in Atlanta in game six. But the part though I'm going to play for you is after he discusses that seven-game series where he basically blames Scott Brooks and calls the series,

you know, he said bad coaching in that series. Look, I liked Scott Brooks as a person. He was a wonderful guest all the time. I never thought he was much of an X's-O's coach. I always felt like Randy Whitman was a million times better as an X's and O's coach than Scott Brooks. and Wall basically blamed the seven-game series loss on Scott Brooks and his substitution pattern in particular. But anyway, off of that, one of the headlines he made was talking about that if they had gotten

through that series against Boston, they would have faced LeBron James and the Cavs in the Eastern Conference finals. And you'll hear him claim that the Cavs didn't want any part of the 2017 Wizards. What was your, what was the best team that had a chance? And DC? Yeah. That's 1617. We was going to beat the shout of Braun.

I'm telling you, if you do an interview with anybody from the cast, there was one team they did not want to see on the East. Which are? They did not want to see us. Me and Kyrie, we matching up. I'm taking Brad over JR. Yeah. You got Bronner over Trevor Rees.

I'm taking, you know who. Kevin loving, Kevin Loving, Marky Morris. I'm taking Kevin Love, but Marky Morris, shoot three, the post up. I'm taking Gortown over Triton Thompson. Yeah. Oh, for sure. They're the same player.

And our bench was deeper than theirs. We had Bogie, Kelly Ubrey. Yeah. You know what I mean? Kelly was playing well that year. He was. That's when he was coming to itself. Yeah, so I'm like,

then you look at every game played that year, it was always a one two-point game. They broke out 18-game home game win the street when Brian hit that bank fucking shot. In a corner. Bitch time I work on this shit every day. Yeah. I told me that she was luck.

He said, ain't know, look, I work on that shit there a day. Yeah. I think it. You baked it, Brian. What are you talking about it? But yeah, that was like, I felt like that year and then the year I broke my hand against the Hawks, we was going to play the Cavats again. They won and won.

That's the year that ended up winning the championship. Not saying we would have beat them that year or we definitely wanted to beat the Warriors. They were the one. We wanted to beat the Warriors. But we just like, me and Brad was good, but we ain't, Brian. Like, you know what you can do with that. You just hope. You know what I mean?

So I was just pissed. We didn't get to play them in the conference finals. He was talking there, by the way, at the end about the 18th, game winning streak they had during that season. It was an incredible regular season game that went to overtime, and LeBron hit like a fadeaway bank shot to force OT at the end of regulation, and they went on to win that game. But with respect to the claim that the Cavs didn't want any part of the Wizards,

first of all, let me correct Wall. Because during this interview, his memory in vivid detail about a lot of different things, was very impressive to me, but he did get something wrong in discussing what the matchup with the Cavaliers that year would have been. Trevor Areza was not on that team. Otto Porter was the small forward. So, yeah, you'd still take LeBron over Otto Porter as he was going through his matchups. But Otto Porter was the starting small forward for that team.

Trevor Arisa was long gone. By the way, always felt like that was a mistake to get rid of Trevor Arisa and should have had, you know, that leadership and high IQ on that team from the time he was a big part of their first playoff series against Chicago back in 2014, which, by the way, Walt talked about a lot. I don't know if the calves really feared the Wizards in 2017. I have no idea. They clocked that year the Celtics. The Celtics, remember the game seven that the Wizards lost to the Celtics. That's the, you know, that's the, you know, that's the, famous game. First of all, Isaiah Thomas had 53 in game two, but in game seven, it was all about Kelly Olinic, who came off the bench to score like 28 or something like that to win the game. And by the way, he did talk about that series, and it's true, they lost several games that were completely winnable. They lost that series four games to three, game one, game two,

game seven. We're all winnable games in Boston during that, you know, the last time the Wizards actually played in a playoff series that mattered. I mean, we're coming up on, it'll be six years this spring. Pathetic. But no, I doubt the Cavs would have lost to the Wizards in the Eastern Conference Finals that year. And it was good that he had a lot of self-awareness on the Warriors. And I thought there was a lot of self-awareness. And he said, look, me and Brad, not LeBron, not Steph and Clay. Anyway, really, I just sat here. I know probably some of you are like, what a waste of time. No, it wasn't. I found him to be incredibly interesting. I don't know how accurate he was on a lot of these things that he talked about, but he did make some headlines.

He, by the way, if you didn't know this, he's playing in L.A. with the Clippers right now on a team that once they get it together and they get everybody healthy is going to have a chance in the West, in my opinion. I mean, with Kauai Leonard and Paul George and Reggie Jackson and John Wall as well, I think they'll have a chance. Wall, by the way, averaging 22 minutes, you know, a night and averaging 11 and 5, 11 points, 5 assists off the bench. He's had some really good. games, though, for the Clippers. There'll be an interesting team come playoff time. All right, let's get to Jay Gruden next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right on the podcast with me right now, once again, is former Redskins coach Jay Gruden, longtime offensive coordinator before he got his first head coaching job. Coach Dandy Dalton in Cincinnati under Marvin Lewis for all of those years. And we've got an OC conversation to have about the team here locally. And I guess where I wanted to start with you today is I wanted to just talk about the weekend

that just ended. And then we'll get into Washington and all of their conversations. But it was a hell of a playoff weekend, you know, with really good games, the comeback by Jacksonville on Saturday night, the performance by, you know, San Francisco in the second half, the Bill's Dolphins game, the Giants Vikings game, which I'm crushed for Kirk and people who listen to me know what a big Kirk fan I am, and I'm just crushed with the way that ended. The Ravens, Bengals game, the Cowboys. Who was the most impressive team to you over the weekend?

Well, impressive, probably San Francisco, just because they played well on both sides of the ball, and they dominated the second half the way they did. Their running game, the usage of their skilled guys, Debo, and obviously McCaffrey and Kettle, very impressive to me. The comeback by Jacksonville, I mean, that doesn't happen very high. off and down 27 and nothing for them to stay with it. Trevor Lawrence, as young as he is, to throw those horrible picks

and to come back and have the mental toughness to make a run and get the victory. On San Francisco, and I said this to Cooley on the podcast two days ago, I can't remember, and I'm not going to say that they're better than anything else in recent memory, but they're as good, in my opinion, as any

team in recent memory, when it comes to offensive weapons. I mean, McCaffrey, Kittle, Debo Samuel, who is just a dude that refuses to be tackled by one or two guys. You know, then you've got IUC who's developing into a really good receiver. Then that offensive line, I mean, offensively around Purdy, and I'll ask you about him in a moment, but can you think of any team in recent memory that's had that kind of weaponry around their quarterback? Not really. You know, in all the skilled positions, you know, you're talking about most teams will have a good back

or maybe a good receiver, but they have every position filled. They have two excellent receivers. They got really three. Jennings plays pretty well, too. And his numbers call. He's a great blocker. And then they have multiple backs that can hurt you, and they got a great tight end. And they have the best offensive tackle in pro football.

So it's bad else as well. Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. By the way, Ray Ray McLeod, when he got his opportunity, when Samuel was out, he's a game breaker as well. So how do you see San Francisco with Brock Purdy right now? I mean, there's the thought that he's actually really good, and then there's the thought that, well, he's got the best weaponry around him and he's got a phenomenal coaching staff and a phenomenal offensive head coach.

How do you describe the Brock Purdy thing right now in San Francisco? Well, I think they are using them perfectly. They're not asking them to do too much. They're getting the ball out of his hands with a quick game. game in the bootlegs, which makes all quarterbacks comfortable. They're playing with the lead more often than not, which keeps him in phase of the game ahead of this chains. They're not asking them to drop back 50 times a game. Fortunately, they had been in the lead, like I said, if they get down by two scores and they're forced to be one-dimensional, I think you'll see a different rock party.

But when they're in front and they have second-and-five and second-and-three, this guy is very effective as most quarterbacks can be, and they're utilized them the right way. Can anybody make them one-dimensional? Yeah, I mean, I think if they, you know, turn a ball over and get behind early in a game, then sure. I think Philadelphia can. They can create turnovers. They can get after the quarterback a little bit. They can stop the run.

So I think that's a chance for them to be able to do that. But easier said than done because their defense plays at a very high level as well. In order to get ahead by a couple touchdowns, they're going to have to score, and scoring against that defense has been no easy pass for anybody. Taking the surroundings out of the. the equation. Do you see a legitimate quarterback in Brock Purdy or not? I think Jerry's still a lot. I think he's won some games already. He's proven he belongs in the NFL as a quarterback. But to be a top-notch quarterback, I think he's got a ways to go.

I think his accuracy is a little bit questionable. But, you know, like I said before, the passes that he's asked to make some of them on the bootlegs in the quick game are pretty easy. The swing passes of McAfri where he runs for 35 yards. I mean, I think I could do some of those, but he's a tough kid. His mobility is a lot better than I thought it would be, so he can escape pressure, which is critical nowadays in pro football. And he's showing some mental toughness

that you really don't know until you throw him out there and throw him into the fire. Some of these third-down converters, some of these red zone converters, some of these scrambles that he has. I think he's a mentally tough kid, and I think it's going to be the possible quarterback of the future for the 49ers.

What do you think? I want to come back to these games in a second, But a conversation, I think, that's already started that will really increase if San Francisco goes on to make a Super Bowl or win a Super Bowl with a third-string quarterback. There are going to be a lot of teams that say, and there have been a lot of teams that have always said, you know, rookie contract quarterback, et cetera. But they're going to be teams that say, hey, like Washington with Sam Hal, if we just build up everything around him, we don't need the quarterback. Look at San Francisco. I think that'd be a pretty flawed approach because they've got a much better supporting staff than anybody else in the league. And by the way, have a hell of a coaching staff.

But what do you think? Well, I think there's two ways to build your team. You build them around the quarterback as long as that quarterback is a game-changing type quarterback like a Mahomes, Josh Allen. There's not many of them as a problem. And the other way is to have a quarterback and build around him. The problem is most quarterbacks, if you play well and your team does well, that quarterback's demand a heck of a lot of money because it's the position. So if the 49ers do good the next three or four years, pretty is going to get a hell of a contract,

you know, despite being just pretty much an average quarterback. Like Jalen Hurts. Although Hertz is better. Yeah, yeah, Hurts is better. But, yeah, you know what? We were at Cincinnati with Andy Dalton. We went to three straight years in the playoffs. We had a very good defense. We had A.J. Green, Marvin Jones, Giovanni Bernard, Tyler, Tyler, Eifert.

We had a great team around him, Andrew Whitworth's a tackle. and he's not on the top five or ten quarterbacks in the league, but we were able to win a lot of games because we had a great supporting cast. Yeah. On the 49ers, you didn't mention when I asked you about the most impressive performances of the weekend. You didn't mention Dallas or DAC. That's their next opponent. What kind of chance do you give Dallas against the 49ers on Sunday?

Well, Dallas is hot or cold, really. If they play the way they played against Tampa Bay, they have a hell of a chance. You know, if they play like they played against the commanders, they got no chance at all. They have the ability to play well. Dak has shown that he is a streaky quarterback, and if he gets hot, they're going to be a tough out because defensively they can get after the quarterback with Lawrence and obviously the pass rush that they have. So it's a dangerous game. But if Dak turns into some of the DAC plays that he makes where he throws interceptions, they got no chance.

But you always have to give a team with a guy like Dak Prescott who can run with CD Lamb, Schultz. They got some good players around them, and they have an ability to take the ball away as well on defense. It'll be a good game. Do you agree with me, and I didn't feel this way earlier in the season. I feel this way now. Why don't they just run Pollard a lot more than Zeke? I mean, he just looks like he's much more of a threat with the ball in his hands than Zique ever looks. He does look more explosive, that's for sure. Zique is more of a power back, and he can get the tough yards. Pollard's more of an outside-the-tackle-type guy, although Pollard's done some inside zones and between-a-tackle runs has been effective as well.

So you're right. I don't know. I still think there's a place for the type of Zeeke plays, more of a four-minute drill, short-yardish-type guy. If you want to run the clock and pound the team in the submission, I think Zeeke's more your guy. But if you need more explosive plays, they get the back-out in space and work the linebackers in the passing game

and get them on the edge, then the Pollard's your guy. It's just, you know, whatever you like. Do you think Brady will play next year, and do you think he should play next year? You know what? I didn't think he'd play five years ago, to be honest with you, and he just keeps playing. I think he's still really – he's still obviously very healthy and very in shape and has the arm strength and arm talent. I think his accuracy is tapered off a little bit. His arm strength is tapered off just a little bit, but, you know, he's a very competitive guy,

and I think he probably – if he goes into the right situation, Miami or Vegas, or stays in Tampa Bay, then he can still be effective. If, again, if you have the weapons around him like Miami does and like Vegas does, if they keep Devante and Waller and Renfro, that could be a good fit as well. I mean, I still think, do you disagree with this? I still think he's a top half of the league quarterback. Yeah, I think so. I think probably top ten still, yeah, right?

Yeah. Well, for sure. You got to mention him. I mean, he's so smart, and he gets the ball out of his hands. He knows where to go with the ball. He can protect himself with the line calls, which is. critical. The experience that he has and knowing how to attack coverages and all that, he can still do all that stuff. It's just the mobility issue is obviously an issue. But, you know, if you have the

people around him, then get open quick, then he's your guy. But if you have to wait for players develop and you don't have a very good offensive line, like Tampa struggled a lot this year with their poor offensive line, and he won't be as effective. What did you think of the Miami Buffalo game? What was your reaction to that game? Because there were a lot of different kind of reactions. You know, there was criticism of Mike McDaniel with the delay a game, and yet there was praise for him with a third-string quarterback, nearly pulling it off at Buffalo in that sort of environment. What did you think? Well, I think Josh Allen almost gave, that he gave Miami a chance to compete there with the turnover in the first half, then the one to

start the third quarter, the scoop and score by the Dolphins. The Dolphins defense did a great job of taking the ball away, keeping a minute. Obviously, the third string. quarterback did a good job. Unfortunately, had a lot of drops. But, you know, at the end of the game, the game management was probably inexcusable. The time-off they used before the delay a game were clock management issues. They couldn't get the plays in in time. And that has a lot to do sometimes with the rookie quarterback as well,

spitting out the plays after the coach calls them from the headset. So unfortunately, you've got to give credit for Miami for getting there with the quarterback issues that they had. But you also have to criticize them a little bit for the game management and the delay games they took in critical times. What did you think of the Ravens with Tyler Huntley on Sunday night with the legitimate chance to beat the Bengals on the road as a big underdog? You know, again, you can do a lot with a good power running game and a great defense,

and that's what the Ravens did. They physically beat up Cincinnati on both sides of the ball, in my opinion. You know, when Cincinnati lost those linemen, those are going to be very hard for Cincinnati's score. If they punch in that quarterback sneak, it would have been hard for Cincinnati to go down at a time, even with Joe Burrow and the weapons that he had. because they weren't going to be able to protect. And that's going to be an issue for them moving forward.

They've got to get those linemen healthy if they can. But it's impressive Baltimore. That's just their style of play. They've been that way since I was in the offensive coordinator since 90 and 2011. They beat you up up front. They play great defense. And at the end of the game, they're going to be there because of that style that they play. You know, I want to get to Lamar Jackson at some point in Washington, too.

But, you know, you coached here. I've been here for a lot of. lifetime. And even though Baltimore and Washington are two very distinct cities and the fans don't root for the other teams, I've always respected the Ravens. They're one of the few organizations in the league that literally have what people refer to as an identity. Like what has been your, I mean, you coached against them, obviously in the AFC North. And then you were 35 miles south as the head coach here for six years. What do you think of the Ravens as an organization? Well, I think it's obviously first class.

They're always competitive. They're always tough, physically tough. They play a style of football that they actually scout for. I mean, they draft for their style of football. To be a raven, you have to beat this type of guy, and they go out and get those type of guys. I mean, they swear by it. And it's been an effective style for them for many, many years.

And Coach Harbaugh has done a great job of sticking with that identity, although they haven't won the Super Bowl in a while, but they're always in contention. and they play tough and they beat you up. All right. I saved the game that many of my listeners are waiting for me to hear discuss with you, and that is the Vikings losing to the Giants. Just give me your overall impressions of that game,

and then I do want to ask you about Kirk's final throw of the game. But overall, what did you think of the game? Yeah, I think overall I just come away at that game being just ultra-impressive with Daniel Jones. Carry the ball 17 times, rough for 75 yards is impressive. He's come a long way with his passing game, his accuracy, his anticipation. But then you feel the element of him being able to run. Obviously, Saquan Barkley is a huge piece of that puzzle in New York.

But I think the development he's had with the first year coach coach baseball has been very impressive. That's what I come across. I don't really criticize the Vikings. I come away more impressed with the Giants and their development with Daniel Jones. All right. So what did you think of the Cousins' overall game and then the final fourth and eight throw where he threw it to Hawkinson underneath well short of the sticks. Yeah, I saw the play on tape, and obviously they're trying to get Justin Jefferson,

but I think the right defense event was barren down on Kirk, and Kirk had that clock in his head. He knew he couldn't take a sack. He had to get the ball out of his hands and get it to somebody. He didn't want to throw a pop fly up there, so he gave Hawkinson a chance to maybe catch it and break attack and we'll get the first. Really the only option he had when you watch the tape. He couldn't work backside to the second or third receiver because he had no time.

He looked at Justin Jefferson. It was a man underneath him and a safety over the top of him. And he felt the pressure. He went right to Hockinson. He didn't have time to reset his feet or scramble because the defensive end was bearing down on him. Man, you and Chris both, Cooley both, defending him in that play. I'm the biggest defender of Kirk Cousins. And I think he should have chucked it up for Jefferson.

I think he should have just... I don't think he could set his feet, man. as soon as he hit his back foot, he was about to get blindsided. And I think for him to get the ball up with the velocity, he would have to step into that throw. And I don't think he really had time. That's just what it looked like on film. On the left tackle, he got beat pretty bad.

Do you think Kevin O'Connell saw the same thing? I don't know. I didn't hear what Kevin O'Connell. I just saw the play on tape and the play live. But you know Kevin, and you know what Kevin thinks of Kirk. what do you think he came away from that thinking? I think he had to come away the same thing, right? I mean, they probably needed a chip.

The left tackle out to give Kirk some time to throw it to Justin Jefferson on that seven cut. You know, usually when we coach that route, he has his option to set that thing high or if he can break it across the corner's face, but he was clearly undercut by the corner, so he had to set it high. Kirk was waiting for him and getting ready to launch it,

but then he felt the pressure and then went right back down Hawkinson, he couldn't set his feet. Obviously, he wanted Jefferson. If Justin was double and playing man underneath like that, he would have done a reset and try to get to the backside basic, but he couldn't get there. He just couldn't get there because the time didn't allow it. Was that a choice route for Hawkinson? If so, should he have gone inside?

No, typically it's a planned out route, about a five-yard out route, because if you get in cover two, which a lot of people play in that third and eight, fourth and eight situation, you're trying to hold the corner and trying to get Justin Jefferson behind the corner. Unfortunately, they locked Justin Jefferson with the corner and matched up on Hawkinson, so it was like a two-manage type thing. So it didn't work out. And ideally in that situation, if you can't get at the Jefferson, you want to reset your feet and go back to the backside in breaking routes, but he couldn't get there. What do you think of him moving forward in Minnesota? If they fix their defense, can they win in the postseason with him?

I think so. Yeah, they won 13 games, right? I mean, that's a lot of games. I don't care if they won by one point or 20 points to win that many games in the National Football League and clincher division by week 11. It's impressive. I think it proves to me that Kirk is an effective quarterback and they have a very good team. Sure, when you get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs, it's, it's, you know, disappointing. But you also have to look at the bright side. I mean, we want 13 games this year now. I mean, we fix our defense, tweak or get some more people in here to help personnel wise on defense and continue to help the offensive line out. then sure, they have a chance to go far in a playoffs.

I think Minnesota became the first team with the worst defense in the NFL, statistically, to go better than 500 in like 20 years or something like that. And they not only went better than 500. There's a lot about your offense and your quarterback, right? I mean, your quarterback has to play well if your defense is that terrible. Yeah, and it was bad. All right, real quickly on this upcoming weekend, let's start Jags Chiefs.

Do you give the Jags any shot at Arrowhead? I think Jags are coming in with a lot of confidence. They've played well the second half of the season, and a lot has to be said about that because if you get hot at the right time, come playoff time, then you are a dangerous football team. And I think the Jags are dangerous.

I think they just have a carefree mentality. Coach Peterson has done a good job of instilling confidence in that team, and they've proven them right by winning a lot of games here late. So, yes, I give them a great opportunity to win. Patrick Mahomes can, if there is a negative about Patrick, because he will turn the ball over from time of time and throw it into coverage, be loose with a ball in the pocket. So if they can create some turnovers early and put it on them

and then yes, I give them a chance. You know what, Jay, I think the underrated part of the comeback was Jacksonville's defense in the second half. I mean, people were complaining about Brandon Staley in the play calling. They threw it 23 times, ran it seven times in the second half. But, you know, I've heard you say this with respect to run pass ratio. If you're going minus one on first and 10 or minus two, which Echler was getting nailed at the line of scrimmage or behind it on all of the runs.

It's hard to line it up and run it again on 2nd, 2nd, and 13. But with a 20-point lead, should Staley have run the ball more in the second half and at least burnt 40, 40, 40, and then punted, at least rather than throwing a couple of incompletions and stopping the clock, how would you have played that? Well, I think you still have to play aggressive style of football. Jacksonville plays a front. They play a jam front, and they try to cover up all the gaps, and they're aggressive against the run.

It's not easy to run against you. You're relegated to basically some outside zone type things, away from rotation and all that stuff. Those are hard to get positive yards, and Jacksonville takes that away. So they're forcing you to throw the ball, and you should be able to throw the ball and get some completions with Justin Herbert and Keenan Allen

and Austin Echler out of the backfield. You should be able to throw the ball in those critical situations. and most great teams are able to. If they're trying to load up and stop the run, the only option you have a lot of times is to throw the ball and unfortunately it didn't work out for them. All right, the Giants, I guess, are on a bit of a role here. They beat Minnesota.

I mean, a lot of people thought they would pull that off. They beat Washington twice to basically get them into the end of the postseason. They beat Indianapolis, which was the game that clinched the postseason birth. Eagles have been sitting there. If Hertz is 100%, and we don't know that for sure, do you give the Giants a chance of winning at Philadelphia Saturday, night. Yeah, small chance for sure, especially the way Daniel has been playing. I think he can keep drives going. He can keep that offense on the field with his legs. And if they can get those 8 to 10 to 12

play drives that eat up some clock and force Jalen Hurts on the sideline watching the game on the bench, then yes, I give them a chance. Now, if they're relegated to a lot of three outs, then they have no chance because Philadelphia's offense is too good in my opinion. They're going to get their points for sure. But the best way to stop them is to keep them on the bench. That's the way the Giants have to approach the game. They've got to get Saquan involved. They've got to get Daniel involved in the design quarterback runs

again, and they've got to keep the clock moving and keep hurts on the bench. Shorten the game and keep them on the bench. The Philly's too good on offense. I mean, they really are. They're weapons. You talk about other team's weapons, but they have two great receivers and great tight end.

Obviously, back can hurt you out of the backfield, and Jalen's ability to run is sick. Yeah. I look at the Bengals after they were physically beaten up in that game, both sides of the ball, as you mentioned, going into Buffalo. I actually think it's a bad spot for them. What do you think? I do, too. I really do. I go back to 2013, I think it was 2013, my last year at Cincinnati, and we had the home playoff game clinched. We clinched our division. In the last game of the year, we had a chance to get the number one seat, but we had to play Baltimore coming off the defense. defending champion. They won the Super Bowl, and they had to win to get in, and we still played everybody, and we beat them that last game. We came out of that game after playing Baltimore.

We were just beat up, and then we had a short week. Is that the Chargers lost? And we lost the San Diego. We lost, like, three of our starters on offense and that Baltimore. Baltimore can beat you up, and they beat up Cincinnati, and I'm concerned about the offensive line for Cincinnati. But Burrow, I would never bet against Burrow. He's just so good. He's so tough. He's got so much his ability to run and move and make big play. and compete and get his team up is secondary and none, but I still think Buffalo has got too much for them right now.

You've already mentioned Dallas and San Francisco, right? Your pick is the 49ers? I mean, you think Dallas's inconsistency is their issue there. Nothing about Sunday nights. Yeah, for sure. But you'd pick, so Buffalo and San Francisco in the games on Sunday. What do you make of the Lamar Jackson situation in Baltimore? you know what it's hard to understand as much as he's done for that organization and their record

with Lamar and the record without Lamar I would think that Baltimore would be running to make sure they take care of him he's a different type of quarterback I understand that and and sometimes when you have a type of quarterback like that you're like what would life be like if we had this guy or this guy well you don't have that guy or that guy you have Lamar so I think his style of play although he's got hurt in the last two years is still effective and he's been a great quarterback for that organization and I'd be surprised if they let him go

but who knows Lamar represent himself there can be some I guess some animosity between the parties and I think that's what's happened. You know the one thing Jay I think that the Baltimore situation first of all I personally and I think I said this yesterday

in the show I think John Harbaugh could have really taken some of the heat off Lamar over the last couple of weeks by just coming out and saying he's hurt, we wish he could play, he's nowhere near 100%, and we're going to go with Tyler Huntley or Anthony Brown, rather than leaving it out there with the narrative that developed that he had kind of quit on his team. So I'm critical of John Harbaugh for that. But from a Raven's perspective, you know, they haven't done anything in the postseason with Lamar. I mean, he's one and two as a playoff quarterback. They didn't

make the postseason last year because he was unavailable because he was injured. They're out in the first round this year because he was unavailable because he was injured. I do understand the perspective of we can't pay you $200 million guaranteed in $45 to $50 million a year. You're not Mahomes. You're not Josh Allen. You're not Russell Wilson. I mean, he is now maybe.

Aaron Rogers. It would be a really tough commitment, I think, for the Ravens to make, given that he's not always available and the style of play, we haven't seen a dual run first team with the quarterback being the big part of the run game advance in the postseason. Yeah, I mean, there's truth of that. There's a lot of, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, Kaepernick did. Kaepernick got to the Super Bowl, you know, in that style of play.

But he's the one example. Yeah, and they lost. But, you know, I think you have to look at your options. you know, if we don't pay Lamar, we let them go, we trade them or whatever, then what are we going to go with? Clearly, they can't go with Huntley or Anthony Brown, right? I mean, what's their plan B? And a lot of teams always think the grass is greener with plan B

until they get plan B, and they say, holy crap, I wish we would have kept Lamar. So if they have a clear-cut plan for that plan B, then sure, I can understand it, not wanting to pay him that much with the injuries that he's had and the style of play for him to be effective, he's got to play with the reckless abandon with the ball, running the ball, for him to be effective. Otherwise, he's not a drop-back. He can't just turn him into a drop-back passer.

We have figured out that that doesn't work with some of these athletic quarterbacks that rely on their legs. So plan B is very important for them if they want to choose to go a different direction. I want to finish up with Washington stuff, but before I get to that real quickly, because I know you're a Derek Carr fan. Where do you think he'll end up? I don't know. That's a great question.

I think there's going to be a lot of teams that are after them. I think the Jets would be a great spot for him. I think Atlanta, I think Washington would be a good spot for them. There's a lot of teams out there that could use the services of Derek Carr. Now, the only negative is he doesn't move very well. You better have a good offensive line that he can come into because if you don't have a veteran offensive line or offensive line, it can pass-protect. I wouldn't go after him.

But if you have some good offensive line, it can pass-protect him, yeah, I'd take him in a minute. All right. Let's come back after the break and talk about Washington. They've got a lot of decisions to make on offensive coordinator, quarterback, etc. We'll do that with Jay Gruden right after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you were a consultant to Washington right now and you could not advocate for yourself to be the offensive coordinator, what would you be looking for and give me a couple of names of people that impress you? Shoot, I don't know.

Really, I've been out of it here in another years. years. You have to go after, you want to go after an experienced guy who's done it before? Do you want to go after a young upcoming guy who's never done it before? Well, what would you be looking for? What would you be looking for? With this team, they're good on defense? I'm an offensive coach. I'm in all offensive meetings. I'm helping install a plays and call the play. So it's not, you know, if I'm looking for a guy like that, if I'm Coach Revere and I don't have any input on the offense, then I'd probably go after a veteran type guy who can run a room and try to surround him with the great staff. And

Obviously, so the guys are interviewing Coach Shermer, has got the experience. He's got some opportunities. He's failed with some of them. He's done great with some of them. Same thing with the kid from Seattle. You know, he's done a great job, went through Super Bowl, but he's also had his issues. Bevel, yeah.

So there's not going to be any perfect people in Washington are going to be like, oh, we're hiring this guy. He's terrible there, you know, what you mean? Or he hire a young guy who's never done it and he'll be critical of that. So he's not going to be right. with the choice. It's just a matter of the guy coming in and really helping Sam Howell be effective and trying to get them the right pieces and helping them out in that regard. But it's a tough call. Well, you just mentioned Sam Howe, and there was a report over the weekend that they've been

telling prospective offensive coordinators that Sam Hal is the quarterback they want to enter 2023 as a starter. I mean, if you're getting pitched to be the OC, do you want them picking the quarterback? Or isn't that something that you want some input on? Well, you want some input, but you also want to have some clarity. This is our guy we're going to try to move forward with. I understand that. That's important to know so you can cater to his strengths, both in the draft process and, obviously, an OTA is trying to get him ready to be your guy. I mean, you want to be able to, obviously, when you're installing the offense, you have a plan in mind and you have a player

in mind you're installing it too to try to help out. But you're also going to have to have somebody coming and compete, I would think, you know, whether it's a veteran guy, whether you keep Hineke or you go out and get a Jacoby Brissette or somebody like that who's going to be on the street. You want a guy that helps push him a little bit and compete, and if he does fail early in a season, you have a guy that can go to that can help you. You know, I was thinking if it is Pat Shermer, he coached Case Keenham in Minnesota the year they made it to the NFC title game with that Minneapolis miracle throw against the Saints.

Would Keenham be a guy that you would bring back? You know, he's familiar with Shermer. He's familiar with the system. and you go in with a guy like Hal and Keenham. I actually threw out this morning and yesterday, Brissette as well, but I threw out Andy Dalton as well. I think Dalton would be a great guy to have on this team. I thought he played very well this year.

The Saints may want to re-sign him. I don't know what they're going to do, but what do you think about Keenham? What do you think about Dalton for this team? I call all the guys you mentioned. First of all, they're great people, and they're very smart, and they're going to be ready to go if you go with the young quarterback, and they'd be very supportive of that quarterback.

So they're not going to create any controversy with I should be playing or go on Twitter and say, what the heck am I doing? You know what I mean? They're going to be very supportive. Their team-oriented guys, and when they're asked to play, they can be effective. I think Case Keenheim is very similar to Heineke and his style of play. You know, he's a tough kid. He's going to get the tough yards for you.

He's going to make some throws you meet like, what the hell did you just do? But at the end of the day, he's going to be prepared and he's going to compete his tail off. And obviously, Andy Dalton is very smart. You can throw anything at him you want to. he's still very accurate and has great anticipation, and he can still move a little bit. He can effectively use his legs, so I think they both be great options. So what do you think of Sam, Hal? Well, I only have one day for one game that I've seen him, and I think he's got, obviously,

that's tools you need nowadays to be an effective quarterback with the armed talent that he has. He threw a couple deep balls that were good, but I like the fact that he's very athletic. And I think, you know, if you're not going to be that up to speed as far as the the passing game goes and the concepts and how to attack coverages and all that stuff, you better be able to run. And he can do that. And he can get some first downs with his legs, which is critical nowadays in pro football. You've got to be able to have an athletic quarterback.

They can get the tough yards for you on third and eight and third nine and convert some first downs that way for you. Because it's very hard to call the perfect play all the time for a true dropback quarterback. It's hard to protect them. It's just very, very difficult. That's a very experienced guy with a lot of knowledge and great accuracy to anticipation. Taking two more for you. Taking the whole ownership situation out of this conversation. You know, in 2019, you know, I sat here and talked about your predicament.

You appeared to be entering a season in which you had to win. And yet, the owner came in and drafted Dwayne Haskins. And then you had the issue of having Haskins but needing to win. In Ron Rivera's case, I think he, if we take the ownership situation, I mean, he's probably a lame duck going into next season. Ownership situation or not, you know, if you didn't have one, he's got a win next year. By the way, he's got a decent

team. They've got an excellent defense. They've got a bunch of playmakers. If he goes with Sam Howell versus chasing a veteran again that can come in and perhaps give them, Carson Wentz obviously didn't, and you knew that when we talked last summer.

But that's, I mean, it's a developmental year if you go with Sam Howell, just like it would have been a total developmental year. if you would go on with Dwayne Haskins? I mean, that's a, that's a, yeah, I think there's a different type of guys. I think, I think Sam's got a year under his belt now, which is very important. But you're seeing guys like Brock Purdy do it. You're seeing some young guys that are pretty effective doing it.

I know it's a long shot, but if you play great defense, you can run the ball a little bit, and your quarterback can move around a little bit. You have some weapons outside like Washington does, then they should be competitive. I don't think you call it a rebuilding year or a, you know, it's going to take time here. don't have time in the NFL. You know, you have to win now. And I think if you're going to go with Sam Hal, then you've seen enough of them practice that he can make all the throws. You know he's athletic. You know he's a great leader. You know he's smart. You've made that commitment to him. Then you should be able to win with him. Has Washington reached out to you?

No. Hell no. You're the only guy that's reached out to me. Nobody's reached out to me. I mean, but do you want to coach still or not? Or has that passed? I would like the coach, again, if it's the right situation. You know, I've just been in a couple situations that aren't fun. You know, it's not fun working 16, 17 hours a day, and not everybody's on board with you. You know, you've got too many people stabbing you in the back in this room, and you walk over here, he's shaking his head at you when you walk out. He's on the phone with the door shut.

You know, that's not fun. But if you're working with the staff that you really know and trust and get along with, whether you win or not, it's still fun to coach. I still like coaching players. that's which you lose sight of sometimes when you lose some games and the miserable outlook you get from behind the scenes. Still, when you go out on the field and you coach the players, that's still fun for me. It wasn't, well, I'm not going to answer the question.

I'm going to ask the question. Was it always, you know, walking out of one room, going into another one, door shuts? Was it always that way or was it that way just at the end? At the end, yeah, at the end. You know, when you're winning or you're competitive, and you're doing pretty good. You know, everybody's happy and, you know, pat you on the back. But when adversity strikes, you can see the true character of a lot of people.

And that's why you have to sign and you have to get people that you know and can trust because when adversity strikes, you want them to have your back and still be on board with the process. And that's not always the case in the NFL. Sometimes it's harder to deal with coaches and staff members than it is the players. Players just go out there and play. A lot of them play their ass off. You all have an occasional player on Twitter say some stupid things. but for the most part the players play.

They just want to be coached. It's the coaches and the front staff and the scouts and all those people that you've got to do with become a miserable situation at times. Last question. There's so many of them, you know. Last question I promised this time because I just thought of something. Are any of these people that are being interviewed, you don't have to name them?

Do any of them reach out to you to find out what Washington was like for you? Have you been, even in the past? Oh, no. No. No. No. No, it's never happened. You know, I think if you're looking for a coach to hire, you'll reach out to people that have worked with that guy and find out what type of guy is and all that stuff,

if you don't know them if you don't have never worked with them. But you don't really, I've never, like, I've never if I interviewed for a job, I've never called other people, hey, what's it like working here? You know, you're trying to get a job if you feel like it's a good fit for you, and you need a job, you're going to take the job. He'll try to make the most of it when you get there. All right. Thank you. Hope you're well and good luck in your match today.

Hey, thank you very much. I enjoy having Jay on this show. He is insightful. He is paying attention to the team locally because he still lives here locally. Not during the cold weather months. I think he's down in Florida for much of the winter, but it's good to have him on the show once again. Tomorrow, Tommy will be with me. Friday, Kooley will be on, scheduled to be on, to preview the four divisional round games. We will also, on Friday, look back to 40 years ago this coming weekend when Washington played Dallas in the NFC championship game at RFK Stadium. Still for me, this single most significant game and win in franchise history. And number two, the most electric rock

environment I have ever witnessed in person at a sporting event. We'll do some of that on Friday. Have a great rest of the day back tomorrow.