The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jay Gruden On Draft

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

A heavy-guest day for Kevin who opened the show with Al Koken joining in to recap the Caps' 4-3 Game 2 loss to the Rangers. Then it was Ralph Vacchiano/FOX Sports-NFC East jumping on to discuss what he's been reporting about Jayden Daniels and Washington's draft plans. Jay Gruden was next talking about his experience preparing for past drafts, how he went about evaluating quarterbacks, revealing his Washington choice at #2, and a lot more. And then it was former Maryland QB Scott McBrien with his thoughts on what the Commanders' should do at #2. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The play is under review for a major penalty assessed in New York. And that is the right call. That is the right situation at the right time to make sure they get this right. To meet it's extension of the elbow into the head of DJ.

And Panarin should be a five-minute major and gave misconduct here. After reviewing the play, we got no penalty. on 10 Rangers, number 24 for Washington's got a minor for a ruffing. Oh, wow. There's the double-wammy. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I think everybody was a bit surprised last night after that hit on T.J. O'Shi that somehow the Rangers found themselves on the power play.

The show today presented, as always, by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation. mention my name for a free no obligation. Quote, joining me here right at the jump is smoking Al Koken, part of the broadcast last night, part of monumental sports groups, caps, coverage, playoff games, icing on the cake based on where they were at one point in the season. But let me just say, because Al knows we will be doing some draft talk on the show today. and I'll even ask Al, who he wants Washington to pick a quarterback.

But coming up here in this opening segment, Ralph Fokiano, who's done a ton of really good reporting for Fox Sports. He's going to jump on with me. Then it's Jay Gruden, followed by Scott McBryan. We'll get Scott's thoughts, former Terp quarterback on the draft. So a busy show. But just explain to me, they go to break. They go to commercial break.

I'm expecting the caps are going to. to be, you know, on this five-minute power play with a chance to totally get back into the game. And who knows where it would have gone from that point on. How does Panarin nearly take O'Shee's head off and the Rangers end up on the power play? Kevin, we're still trying to figure that out. I agree 100% with what you just said, 100% with what the esteem Mr. Craig Lachlan said just as you let us into the show. We've heard this time and time again when the hockey league hands out suspensions for hits to the head. Primary source of contact, primary place of contact being the head.

Everything I have seen and a day later looking for more that maybe I had not seen by super slow motion or still frame or whatever, I still can't figure out how Artemip Pinaran didn't get the five-minute maybe that you mentioned because there was no question whether it was the shoulder or the elbow doesn't make any difference. as long as the primary source of contact is the head, that to me has always been the definition of what a major should be or a possible suspension should be. And the fact that you said the capitals ended up with, you know, Conor McMichael kind of doing the ordinary thing, which is just a little retaliation like, hey, you can't do that to the guy.

I didn't really even see a roughing call that qualified there. So it was one of the great mysteries of the night, something I know the capitals were really, really upset about, and maybe one of these things now that the capitals can use moving forward, because I do think the way they handle that, they obviously killed off the McMichael penalty, and we're the better team from that point on, maybe this is something that's going to be a rallying cry for this team that's used a lot of different rallying cries, a number of different negatives set about them as rallying cries to even get them to this point. I mean, there's no way if it's flipped, and that's Tom Wilson,

the hit on a Rangers player, that he's not sitting for five and potentially suspended, right? There's no question about it. No question about it. And, again, I understand part of the conversation had been, well, it was initiated by the shoulder, and the shoulder started to the chest and then rode up to the face. I, again, in looking at all the replays I've seen, I did not see the initial point being the chest or right underneath the neck. I saw it as the head. So I couldn't agree with you more in terms of if it's Tom Wilson, we're talking about can he even, you know, how many games before he plays at the beginning of next year because he's just served a six-game suspension with a undisciplined but not really a, shall we say, an aggressive, a, I was trying

to swing my stick at the guy. The stick came up and he, you know, he gets the six games. If this is him and he did it again against a guy like Panarin, their superstar, we're talking about many games into next season does Tom Wilson have to sit out. All right. So they're down two games to none. They were a prohibitive underdog heading into this series. And they were unable to take one from the Rangers in New York. The series reverts back to D.C. Friday night for game three. But I'm just curious as to how you feel after last night, which was a tussle. I mean, it was there. Even at the end, when they emptied the net, they had opportunities.

Do you feel more encouraged about their ability to win some games in this series after last night or not? After the first two games of this series, I walk away, Kevin, thinking, I didn't see anything that says to me, the New York Rangers are the far superior team. They, to their credit, and again, I hate when it's always just, you know, one side of things, because the New York Rangers have won the first two games of this series. And to the credit of the New York Rangers, they have taken advantage of capital mistakes. That being said, without those capital's mistakes, I have not seen a Ranger team that you would say, based on what you talked about, the paper matchup, the 16th seed against the number one seed,

I have not seen the mismatch. And I've got to give Spencer Carberry a lot of credit for this. one of the things he said to all of us in the media after game one was here are the things we need to start doing better. We've got to come out. We've got to start the game much more aggressively. Well, what did you see last night? They dominated the first five minutes of the game, and they got the first goal.

The power play was horrendous in game one. That's to the detriment of the Washington Capitals. Some credit to New York Rangers, their swarming penalty kill is excellent, but the Capitals needed to make adjustments. He said we've got to start entering the zone with more speed. we've got to make better decisions when we get to that blue line, whether it's a pass, to make the entry, whether it's a chip in and go get it after we make the entry, whatever it is.

Well, what happened? The Capitol scored two power play goals by doing exactly what he said, better speed on the entry. So he has talked to us about some of the generalities, I guarantee you he's broken everything down much more specifically to the team, and the team responded and played a much better game, but they can't make the mistakes they're been making. on the penalty kill last night. They had on the first Ranger goal. They had three guys, basically, on two players,

all the way on the other side of the ice, leaving one defenseman basically in no man's land, and these guys are too good with the sharp passing. Alexander Ovetkin, who has not had the good start to this season. Or to the series, I should say, no question about it, and then compounded by a terrible puck-handling mistake on the power play that leads to the short-handed goal. Again, credit to the Rangers for cashing in on that mistake,

but a mistake that A, can't be made, and B, should be made by Alexander Ovechkin. So if you take away some of the mistakes the Capitals have made, to me this is a dead even series. Maybe even if you go back to last night, they could be coming home 1-1 based on when they were at their best. They were as good, if not better, and stretches than the Rangers. So to me, win game three, and suddenly I think we do have a completely different series. Yeah, 5-on-5. The Caps actually statistics.

were much better than the Rangers last night, but in these first two games, the whistle's been a quick one. Too quick, don't you think? Oh, I agree, but you could also say in that first game, the Capitals with four power play chances had a great opportunity to make it a much closer game, and they didn't do it, because their power play was terrible. Last night, they made the adjustment. You know, the officiating is going to be a factor, and if you really look at it, I mean, if you take away the Panarin non-call. Pretty much both sides had things where you were like, wait a minute.

How did this get called or how didn't this get called? Because you remember earlier in the game, T.J. O'She got to stick up at Panarin's face on what should have been an obvious high-sticking call that didn't get called. So the Capitol definitely got a break there. And I do think that the Obey Q-Bel goal that led to a power play, that to me wasn't a hook either. So there were some questionable calls or non-calls. both ways. But I do think, and to reiterate what you just said, at five on five, they've given

the Rangers everything, if not more, and you didn't see any stretches in either the two games, in my opinion, where it looked like the Rangers are so far superior that the Capitol is hanging on for dear life. And the other thing, if they do get either one or both of Nick Jensen or Rasmus and Dean back in the lineup, that certainly is going to be a huge plus for this team as well because if you break down the playoff experience on defense between what the New York Rangers have and what the Washington Capitals have come into with these first two games. It's laughable. All the experience, basically, is in John Carlson with a, I think it was 123 games to start

the series, and Trevor Van Riems-Ike with, I think it was like 32 games to start the series, where you had Vincent Iorio first playoff game, Alexander Alexia first playoff game, Dylan McElrath, who wasn't with the team the entire year, has to get called up in the emergency, one other playoff game. You just went up and down the lineup, and it was like a massive difference between the two sides and the fact that the capitals, we're not having a conversation based on the fact that, wow, did the Rangers really exploit that depleted capital defense? Quite the opposite. I think they've really hung in there and held their own. It's just, as I said, the mistakes and giving the Rangers too many opportunities to

cash in on those mistakes. You alluded to Ovechkin. Why has he struggled in these first two games. Well, part of it is, and again, you've got to give credit, you know, to Peter LaVuette, this is a veteran coach. This is a guy who takes advantage of the matchup he is given. It's why people, you know, in hockey you've seen this over the years, sometimes home ice advantage is meaningless when it comes down to actually who wins these games. But when it comes down to having good coaches using every tool in their kit,

home ice advantage and the ability to put the matchups out there you want the last line change is huge for good coaches peter lauilette has used that which with a much deeper new york ranger defense to be able to get the type of matchups he wants against alex of vetchin and that has been a factor that being said it's up to alex account of that Alex has got to be more aggressive there are times where we've seen a Alex not scoring a goal or not you know you know not and not coming away with, you know, 8-10 shots, but I can't remember too many games where you don't see shots or hit. He affects the game one way or the other.

If things are being taken away from him, then he gets in that bull in the China Shop mode and makes the people pay for the tight checking on him. I haven't seen either of those yet, and that to me has been the surprise. It's one thing to say, yeah, he's facing a tough defensive structure that's limiting his time and space, but it's another thing to say, well, then on the other end, get in there on the forecheck and blow Vincent Truba up, or Jacob Trubov up, get in there on the forecheck and knock Vincent Trochec off the fucking created turnover. Things that we also see Alexovesc and doing, and again, that mistake last night on

the power play, that's just something that can't happen. That he's too better of a player to know that they're going to close on him, that they're going to really be quick on them. Put yourself in a more defensive posture as a troja, kind of trying to make the play when you didn't have control the puck, and then suddenly it's a three-on-one the other way. That just was kind of an inexcusable mistake, and I expect to see a much different Alexander O'Evetskin, and this will be the test for Spencer Carberry. You find the matchup that works best for you to find Alex Ovechkin some ice.

That's what I think is going to be a real key to game three. Man, the pass back to Miller on that short-handed goal was really pretty. Right. All right. So, by the way, you mentioned home ice advantage. How good is that atmosphere at Madison Square Garden? That's what I mean, my position isn't great, but it's right down there near the ice, and that's where you hear the decibel level.

Three times, they have a, his name is John Brancy, and so if anybody wants to Google him, they introduce him as a Broadway star, and I can see why. He's got this unbelievable Broadway singing voice when he does the national voice. Yeah, oh, it's phenomenal. And then he pauses on certain, between certain choruses, or certain verses, right? And then when there's that pause, then these Ranger fans, you know, yell out. And it's three different times during the anthem and right off the get-go. You know you're in some place different.

It's an electric atmosphere. That being said, you and I've been in the Capitol One Arena for various events when that atmosphere is equal, that the Capitol fans or, you know, on times when there were huge Wizards games or whatever it was, of a big college match doesn't make any different. there are times when those fans bring it as well. The difference is right now, though, from the get-go, before the Rangers need to be dragged into a game by the fans, the fans are already dragging into the game.

That's what's got to happen on Friday night and on Sunday night. That fan base for the Capitals have got to make sure that Rangers understand, now we're going to drag our team in right off the get-go, and you're going to be fighting that all night long. All right. who do you want them to take quarterback tomorrow night? I am on team Jaden Daniels. I just watch that guy at LSU.

Listen, as you know, Kevin, I neither have the sources or the resources. The scouts to my own scout. Right, exactly. But when I look at Jaden Daniels, I'm like, come on. That guy, to me, just looks so smooth. He can do so many different things that touch on the deep throws, the ability to get out of trouble. I hear the debate, oh, he's too thin,

he's too this, he won't withstand the founding. I'll take my chance with Jay and Daniels. At Real Smoking Al on X on Twitter, Al has been in the DMV after living and growing up in St. Louis. He's been here now for 50 years. 50 years. He's been in the market.

He's done everything. Thanks for jumping on with me. appreciate it. Kevin, it's been too long. Always a pleasure to talk with you, my friend. Smoking Al, everybody, caps down 2-0 in their best of seven first round series with the Rangers. Games three and four back here in D.C. at Capital One on Friday night and Sunday night. If they can snag one of those, they would force the series back to New York for game 5 Wednesday night a week from tonight. We are down to the final couple of shows. the final two shows, to be specific, before we start doing shows knowing who the quarterback is going to be for the next couple of years.

Jumping on with me right now is Ralph Vakiano. Ralph is an NFC East reporter for Fox Sports. He's done a good job covering Washington, Dallas, Philly, and New York for the last few years. He was covering the Giants before that. But I have referenced some of Ralph's reporting over the last week and a half and thought, I would get him on the show. So I want to start with what you know here as of, you know, 2.30 Eastern on the day before the draft in terms of Washington.

And we can start with last week and all of the noise related to their top 30 visit format. Sure. Well, I mean, the only thing I think we all know for 100% certain is they're staying at number or two and they're taking a court back. Anything else, you know, a trade down at a different position would blow the minds of everybody in the NFL. The rest of the stuff around that

is there's some certainties, I think. You know, we're pretty sure that Jaden Daniels is going to be their guy. And, you know, there was not certainty about that last week because there was a little bit of a flap about their top 30 visit. They had, as everybody knows, about 20 guys in at once

for a top 30 visit. Not all that unusual to have a group top 30 visit, but what they did also was bring in four of the top quarterbacks, and that makes it a little unusual. Usually when you're talking about the guys at the top of the draft, they come in separately, especially the quarterbacks who you think you'd want to spend a lot of individual personal time. But because it was unusual, it became a little bit of a thing. You know, from my understanding is they did not tell the players or the agents until very late in the process that they were going to have it as a group visit. I was told

with a couple of the agents were, I don't know how to exactly phrase it, I would say, angered, but that's probably a little harsh, bothered, maybe mift, that they didn't get enough notice to tell their guy that their guy didn't get individual attention. But then I was told that Adam Peters, the commander's GM, talked to them, explained his reasoning. They all, you know, hugged it out over the phone and everything was fine. And, you know, none of that, the only, I mean, I can't tell you for sure exactly where are these guys all want to go and what Jaden Daniels wants to do, but I can tell you for 100% certainty that nothing that happened there will scare off the commanders and make them think, oh, geez, we better not

take this guy because his agent was a little unhappy. You know, they're going to take the guy they like, and at this point, I'm pretty sure it's Jaden Daniels. So I don't want to dwell on last week, but there's still some things that are interesting about last week, especially with what you just described, which is it was perhaps more driven by what they didn't know about the visit, that they were caught off guard, I guess, to a certain degree. Was it his agent, Butler, that had the biggest issue, biggest issue with it, or was it Jaden Daniels? Well, that's a good question. I can't tell you that I've talked to Jaden

Daniels, so I don't know for sure. You know, his agent hasn't talked about it publicly, but he did respond with that weird thinking emoji on Twitter, which sort of kind of clued everybody. I guess there's a story or a video of somebody, Mike Floreo, pro football talk, criticizing the commander's group visit, and then Ron Butler retweeted that with a little emoji at the top of it. It made everybody

kind of guessed that he was unhappy. You know, was he unhappy? Yeah, that's my understanding. Was he unhappy for himself or expressing it for his client? That's hard to tell. And I don't know where the line is there. You know, I think

I'm sure Jaden Daniels wants if he's like anybody who's in the top of the draft wants individual attention, wants his eco-stroked a little bit, that wouldn't be unusual for an elite athlete. So being told, hey, you're one of a group, you know, at a time where he's probably thinking, you know, hey, you're picking a number two. If I'm your guy, you should be telling me I'm your guy,

not making this a big open competition. He might be a little missed by that. But I don't think anything was to the degree, you know, once that stupid little emoji went out, and it was no explanation, It let imaginations run wild with how angry everybody really was. They don't think it was ever to the point of, well, he doesn't want to play for Washington because, you know, as somebody kept telling me, if he was really trying to send a message

that he does not want Jaden Daniels to go to Washington or that Daniels didn't want to go to Washington, it's the worst power play of all time because nobody understood it. And the real way to express that would have been to tell him, you know what, we're not taking to visit now, and pull him out. and that would have made a bigger statement. So that didn't happen. And that, to me, made it feel like it's all just overblown. Yeah.

Look, I kind of feel a little bit silly continuing to talk about it, but you're the one that's had the actual reporting on it. And just to wrap it up, you know, as you said, that you had sources tell you that Adam Peters and Daniel's agent, Ron Butler, talked and settled any lingering issues. So why do you think, why are you confident that tomorrow night it'll be Jaden Daniels at number two for Washington? Well, I have to be honest, up until a few weeks ago, I wasn't at all. I really thought that they were undecided.

I'm not sure I ever bought the noise about J.J. McCarthy. I think that there was a good reason to think that it was going to be Drake May, the North Carolina quarterback. I think they like him a lot, and I think they gave him serious consideration. but I can tell you that literally everyone I talk to around the NFL tells me it's going to be Daniels and tells me that Daniels is clear-cut the number two quarterback prospect in this draft. I guess after I get told that enough, I start to believe it. I'd be lying if I told you that I've been told that by Adam Peters or Dan Quinn or somebody who would know for sure in Washington.

I don't think that part has leaked out yet. I don't think sometimes you get it from the other side, my knowledge, Daniels and his agent do not know that for sure yet. So I think, you know, you might hear a little more solid reporting on that in the next 24 hours or so leading up to the draft. But right now, the world is convinced it's going to be Daniels. The world's convinced that that's the right choice. And that's what sort of got me on board. He's a good explosive prospect with very few knocks on him. And, you know, you can make a case either way for him or Drake May. And, you know, this just seems to be everybody's preference.

It's funny because yesterday and maybe even the day before to a certain extent, some of that J.J. McCarthy buzz and he's flying up the boards and maybe Washington sees in him, Brock Purdy or Kirk Cousins, but you're not buying that at all. No, I'm not. And, you know, I've got to admit, I don't understand the whole J.J. McCarthy fascination. Me neither. Wild, wild ride. You know, if you go back to the end of the time, the college football season, even heading into the college football playoffs, you would have had a hard time finding someone tell you he's a first rounder. And then, you know, not long after the college

football championship, Jim Arbos said, don't be surprised if he's the first quarterback off the board, which stunned everybody. And then all of a sudden, you asked around like, well, yeah, he is a first round prospect. And yeah, he could be top 15. And before long, it's maybe even the commanders at two or, you know, the Patriots at three. And now as it gets closer to the draft, I have people tell me, you know, the Vikings like him and they were trying to trade up for him, but now they might just sit tight at 11 and take him there. So it's really, his ride has been all over the map. And I, you know, pretty much nothing would surprise me, but I don't think, I don't think anybody thinks he's the second best prospect in the draft. And it's possible because of a commander

surprise everyone and do that, yeah, you know, Adam Peters was in San Francisco and they surprised everybody and took Trey Lance when nobody thought that that was the guy they were going to take. where they think they traded up to two or three to get him, whatever it was. Yeah, I guess there could be a surprise. I can never rule that out, but I think it would shock just about everybody in the NFL at this point if that was their choice. You've been covering the NFCs for a while, and you said as it relates to Jaden Daniels, that you'd be lying if you said that it was coming directly from the organization. This is a completely different organization than the one that was here before.

this regime, isn't it? Yes, throughout. There's no doubt about it. And, you know, I know a lot of people said, well, you're in the old regime, you know, they had a lot more leaks. And that's probably true. Of course, the old regime was around for a little while.

And, you know, this is new. Reporters are still getting to know the people in the organization. They might not even know yet who to get good information from. But, you know, they're professionals. There were some big problems in the organization before, was not ever, even when I, before I was covering the NFC, when I was just covering the Giants,

really wasn't that hard to find people who would tell you what Washington was planning on doing. It's definitely not as easy as it was in the past. It's not hard because they're picking two. There are a lot of options at two. So it's not really a ton of mystery, but they're just handling it in a different way. And some of it's good. Some of it's very professional. Some of it is a little weird, like the group visit of quarterbacks,

certainly got the attention of some people around the league for being different, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It's just a different way of doing things. We all have to get used to that. It's definitely not the same old commanders anymore. All right, I want to switch subjects, but I want to stay in the division, Ralph. Are you thinking the Giants are going to take a quarterback here early in the first round, whether it's at six or a trade-up? I actually am not. I believe that they would like to take a quarterback. back. They would, and I think Drake May is the guy they would like. I think if he gets,

presumably past the commanders to three, and if the Patriots are really willing to trade, the Giants will try to trade up for him. If the Patriots were to take, say, J.J. McCarthy and Drake May falls to four, I think the Giants would try to trade up for him there. Just sitting at six, though, assuming that they can't pull off a trade, which I'm very skeptical of them being able to do, I think they would probably decide to take a receiver. and, you know, basically give Daniel Jones another year. You know, they're split in the organization. There are people in there that think we've got to move on from Daniel Jones.

We've got to take a new quarterback. And there are people that think we've never really given him a chance with, you know, the receivers and the offensive line around us. We've got to build a better team. It's really, I don't know, that's 50-50, but it's enough of a split where they're really thinking about her heart. And you add in a trade-up might be too expensive for them. You know, if the right quarterback falls to six, sure, then they might do it.

But I don't think one of the quarterbacks that they want is going to get that more. Who in the organization's pro-Daniel Jones and who's pro, we got to draft a quarterback? Well, my understanding is that the coach and the GM who did not draft Daniel Jones, although they did convince ownership to give the big contract, you know, think that they should move on. They should take an opportunity to get a quarterback of their own, that they can groom, that they can develop, you know, hopefully,

in a year or two when Daniel Jones is off the books. They'll have the advantage of a quarterback on a rookie salary, rookie salary cap number. So they'd like to get their own guy. They're really worried about Daniel Jones' injury history. Others in the organization, and there's people in personnel, and definitely, I think, the owner, kind of look at it as, you know, just a year ago, we all believed in Daniel Jones.

And, you know, we did not put a good team around. He was terrible in the six games he played, but he played those games without Sequin Barclay without his left tackle. He was the offensive line was getting him killed. You know, we believe he had this ability. Let's have some stability here and give him a chance by building a better team around. So, you know, I don't want to paint this as it's the GM versus the owner. I think there are the two more high-profile guys, as I understand it,

who are sort of on opposite sides. And I know the owner is very adamant about it. Look, if the GM wants to do this, I'm going to let him do it. But there's a discussion going on. And it's, you know, it's deeper in the organization. I think I could probably find five or six people in there on each side and make a pretty strong case for why they think, you know, whatever they choose to do is the right thing to do. Ralph, didn't they sign Tyrod Taylor back in 2020 in part because Daible wasn't a big believer in Daniel Jones?

I don't think that was the reason. I don't think they ever believed that he would be a replacement for Daniel Jones, certainly at his age. I think they were a little wary of Daniel Jones injuries. You know, he was coming off a neck injury. And, you know, it was not, you know, serious enough to end his career, but serious enough to worry that it was going to be a recurring thing, which obviously happened a second time. And they knew that when he went down in the year before under Joe Judge,

the Giants just didn't have really good backup quarterback, and they basically tanked the rest of the season. So Brian Davel thing was only bringing in a quarterback fact that I know that is professional, and if Daniel Jones does get hurt, at least it doesn't immediately ruin our season. We have somebody who can kind of keep the ship, you know, afloat for a little while. So, you know, it wasn't necessarily, he didn't know Daniel Jones at that point. I can't say he was a believer in him, but he became a believer in him enough to, you know, back the contract, you know, one year later. All right. Last one, I promise.

Pennix Jr. Does he get picked in the first round? And if so, where? Boy, that's a good question. He has, what's the guy, outs have told me is top 10 ability, but he has a very, very long injury history that you have to be really wary of. I do think he will go in the first round. I think one of the reasons for that is, you know, when you have a young quarterback, it's advantageous to get in the first round, to get a guy in the first round. You want to take advantage of the rookie salary at that position, but you also want to make sure that you have him for the extra year, which you get from a first round pick.

Get that extra year on his contract if you drafted in the first round as opposed to the second round. Where he could go is a good question. I think, you know, the Minnesota, you look at the teams who are looking for quarterbacks. Minnesota Vikings, 11 might seem a little high, but they also have the 23rd pick.

I could see them doing that there. You know, you get desperate when you need a quarterback, so sometimes you jump ahead. Maybe the Las Vegas Raiders at 13 might be interested You know, there's the Seattle Seahawks at 16. It might be a long shot. I heard the Rams of all teams really like him. They're at 19.

I don't know that they would take him in the first round, but that's certainly a team to watch. So any of those teams, you know, to me it's a chance because, again, I don't think they don't want to wait until the second round if you need a quarterback, and I do think people believe in his ability. It all just depends on what their doctors told them about his medical checkup. Ralph Vakiano, NFC East Reporter for Fox Sports.

at Ralph Vacchiano, V-A-C-H-I-A-N-O on X on Twitter. I really appreciate it. Thanks for doing this. My pleasure. Anytime. Ralph Vacchiano, Fox Sports, everybody, with some good information. We will get to Jay Gruden here momentarily. But before we get to Jay, a couple of stories that hit today,

including Jaden Daniels was in Detroit with Drake May at a Special Olympics event. Detroit is the host of tomorrow night's draft. And he did a quick interview with reporters that were there. Sam 48 transcribed this, Sam from the Washington Post, of course. Sam had a reporter question, there's speculation that you may not want to go to Washington. Do you want to just squash that? Jaden Daniels said, quote, I'm blessed to go wherever I'm called. whoever calls my phone when the commissioner gets up and says my name, I'll be blessed, and they're going to get my all. Closed quote. The reporter then just said, to clarify, would you be okay being drafted by Washington? Yeah, 100%, Jaden Daniels said. So there was that today. Also, Scott Abraham from Channel 7 had an interesting tidbit last night.

Josh Harris, the owner of the team, has the Philadelphia 76ers, a team that he also owns in the NBA playoffs, and they play game three tomorrow night in Philadelphia, down to nothing in that very heated, if not controversial series against the Knicks. And Scott Abraham found out that Josh Harris won't be at the 76ers game in Philadelphia, sitting in his court side seat, he will be in Ashburn at the team's headquarters as the team gets ready to conduct its first draft under Josh Harris. Adam Peters, Lance Newmark, the whole gang will have the owner in the house tomorrow night. If you haven't had a chance to rate us or review us on Apple and Spotify, so helpful if you

could take a moment to do that. Five stars, they allow you to rate us on Apple and Spotify. That would be terrific if you see fit. A quick one to two sentence review on Apple helps us out a lot. This is a big week for anybody that does NFL content or NFL team content. Over the years, I've definitely seen a bump in listenership during this week. And for some of you, that means you're listening for the first time in a while, probably since the Super Bowl. And if you haven't rated or reviewed us, it would be a tremendous help if you did. Also subscribe to the podcast. Also, follow us, which is really easy to do by hitting the plus button or the follow button

on the Apple and Spotify Kevin Sheehan Show home pages. Jay Gruden, with Jay's thoughts not only on the quarterbacks, but we'll ask Jay about kind of how the whole process worked when he was here in Washington. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, if you're looking for a fun way to play Daily Fantasy Sports, prize picks is the place to go to. I downloaded the prize picks app recently. It's exciting.

It's easy. It's different when it comes to DFS. It's just you against the numbers. It's not you battling thousands of other players. It's picking more than. or less than on two to six player stat projections with odds. Like the other night, I had Caitlin Clark less than 33 points and less than six three pointers have paid three to one.

The NBA playoffs are coming up. The NHL playoffs are coming up. Prize picks offers so many different opportunities on a nightly basis. Right now, you can win up to 100 times your money on prize picks with as little as four correct picks. You can turn $10 into $1,000. PrizePix is America's number one fantasy sports app. Download the app today. Use my code Sheehan for a first deposit match of up to $100. That's the prize picks app. Download it today. Use my code Sheen, S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a first deposit match of up to $100. Prize Picks. Pick more.

Pick less. It's that easy. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled, Uni-F-Y-D Healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big-time world-class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me. We all understand the importance of mental. and physical well-being and proper recovery for top-notch performance. That's why I'm excited that Unified Healing is sponsoring the podcast now. Unified Healing is a new and super innovative global network of wellness

centers powered by energy enhancement system or EE system. If you haven't heard of the EE system yet, listen up. This technology promotes wellness, deep relaxation, purification, and reaffirmation. And rejuvenation. Whether you're here in the DMV or anywhere else across the globe, access to a center is easy and affordable. Interested in experiencing the EE system technology for yourself, we'll go to unifiedhealing.com slash Sheehan to learn more and find a center near you. That's Unified, spelled, unifed, YD Healing.com slash Sheen. No material or testimonies on the Unified Healing website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EE system. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to windonation.com. Mention my name and you'll get a free estimate. Free in-home, no-obligation, quote. There's benefit to getting that free no-obligation quote.

The benefit is Windonation will tell you which windows are too old or too broken and need to be replaced versus those that don't. And if you act now and you end up purchasing windows from Window Nation, buy to get too free is the offer with no payments and no interest for two full years. So you're paying half price on the windows with no payments and no interest charged for 24 months. Call them at 86690 Nation. Go to windownation.com. Mention my name.

Again, they'll take good care of you starting with a free estimate so you've got nothing to lose. Jay Gruden is with us today as we approach. the 2024 NFL draft. Jay is actually really kind to do this because he's taking some vacation time out in Cabo playing some golf and doesn't feel great. But I appreciate this and you getting up early West Coast time to do this with me. I do want to talk about the quarterbacks, of course, but I also want to find out a little bit about the process of evaluating quarterbacks and just the draft process as a whole when you were involved in it here in Washington. But first of all, let me just ask you, have you gotten to the point where you're just a bit

exhausted by all of the conversation around this draft and the quarterback specifically? Yeah, I think you are too in the building about now. This is where I think it's time that everybody's just taking a step back. We'll probably come in early this morning and just talk about their later round picks. rank the board one more time and then go home and then be ready to come back Thursday after a nice dinner before the draft. But yeah,

this is a grind on a lot of people. You know, the scouts, obviously the GMs, the coaches, the assistant coaches, everybody involved. Put a lot of time in work in as they should anyway because this is a very critical time of the year. So this is actually you're wrapped up at this point

the day before the draft. You should be. I think there might be some guys, like I you remember with Scott McClun and some other guys, we try to fiddle with the board a little bit up from mid to later round fix. Like I try to get, they might have had them in a sixth or seventh round.

I try to get them boosted up for the fifth or fourth round. Just little things of that nature. A couple last-minute arguments. But it was fun. That's fun. Everybody has their own input, and you have the scouts who did the area. You have the G&A.

You have the coaches and the position coaches. You know, you just, you're not going to see eye to eye with everybody, but you've got to just make sure to try to get them in the line. right spot where they're going to be taken so if they're available and you like them you get them you wanted matt ianitis where you guys ended up taking him right oh yeah yeah i want a matt um we had him as a priority free agent and i said that this guy is you know he's he's team captain

the temple he plays his ass off he can stop the run he was adequate pass rush he's not like you know warren sapper harin donald for god's fixed but he's a good role player he's a rotational defense the lineman to get in a fifth round big bodies like that are hard And you played pretty good, of course. And they went and got a free agent contract to Carolina. I don't know if you're still playing or not. But, you know, those are guys that you've got to have in your fifth and sixth round. It's very hard.

If you look around the – just go back to last year's draft. Look at every team's fourth and six, seven-rounders. Not many of them are produced. You know, the ones that hit on those, it makes a big difference in your roster and your football team. So you've got to take your time on those guys and don't just go at the dark board and try to guess, make sure you do your due diligence and have a reason for why you want a guy.

But when you said when Scott McLuhan was here, you guys were still fiddling with the board, you know, a day out, was Matt Ionitis the example you were thinking of? Yeah, Ionitis. And then, yeah, Ionitis. And then when Scott left, we had a couple other guys. We moved up the board. Yeah, I mean, that happens all the time. And some guys want to move guys off the board. Like, I had some players or quarterbacks or players that I thought couldn't play.

And I'm like, why are we having them in the third round? We've got to get this guy back to the stick. So, you know, you're not right all the time. but you've got to have those conversations because it's important. You know, people have said this about you that as far as coaches go, you are an excellent talent evaluator. You know, we've talked about this before. You've told me that you loved doing that part of the job in addition to coaching.

What made you good at it? I think being around different leagues helped me out a lot. You know, I could see a guy. I could say, this guy couldn't play for me in the arena league. You know what I mean? why we got them in the third round. So I think playing in different leagues at different levels, you know, playing in football with guys

and coaching with my brother and then coaching the arena league, coaching the U.S.L. guys that aren't quite good enough to make it. Really helping out a lot. And obviously, just watching, I have a thing for watching every position very closely and take a lot of time doing it. And it was the most fun part from the work standpoint of the job

was the draft, in my opinion, because you have to watch a senior bowl, East West Ryan games, you have to be all the practices. And you find a band-in-roof every now and then. It's a grind, but it's one part. It's very important, obviously. I mentioned before the four-fif, six, seventh rounders.

You know, if you can hit on a couple of those, it makes a difference. What was your best personnel call where, you know, whether it was Bruce or McLuhan or Kyle Smith took your advice and it worked out? Oh, shoot. I don't know. I mean, you know, the obvious ones were. I think we're all pretty much in agreement Don, you know, obviously, Dron, I mean, Drott-Bey-A-Veigh was right there.

If he would have not been drafted, it would have taken Bita-Baya. I want to Dron Tain, but we got Drom Paine. Obviously, Jonathan was easy. I actually was wrong on that one. I wanted Ruben Foster. I thought Dron Tain would be gone. And he was a, I mean, not Dr. Johnson would be gone.

Right. He fell right to us. We had Jonathan, rated ahead of Ruben, so that was an easy pick for us. We took Johnson, thank goodness, Ruben. had some injuries and didn't work out. But, you know, just, I don't know. I mean, the linebacker from North Carolina, who I liked,

I moved up the draft. Cole Holcomb. Yeah, Cole Holcomb. That's probably one of my better ones, because we had him as just a free agent, Gary. And I moved him all the way after the fifth. You know, linebackers that can run 4-4-5 and have 100 tackles three years in a row, I think are working if he moved up to the fifth round.

Because worst-case scenario, he's going to be really good on special teams. He's going to be a good role player back up. He could play nickel-bond and cover. So, yeah, so probably that one. But there are other arguments within, it's like, you know, you have, and you're like, this guy's way better than a six-rounder, and a stereo scouts are saying.

They're arguing, and then he gets some of them, that he'd get drafted in a third or fourth round of shirt, and get picked in third round. And that's a fun stuff about it. You just never know. You never know what other teams think about other guys. Just have to do your work and communicate with the scouts that did them and communicate on the,

understand where he came from and what type of guy he is, the kind of work ethic. You got to know about from the strength, coaches, does he like the weight room? Nowadays it's even more difficult because these guys are getting paid, and, you know, they're prima don't like what they see at their college. They just jump in the portal and transfer. So it's a major concern with new players coming out, I believe.

It's a whole different breed of character. It's going to be very difficult in the evaluation process moving forward. Some guys play on three different teams already. It's going to be hard to evaluate. You have three different coaches that talk to. Two coaches will say he's lazy. He's a quitter. One coach will say he's great.

It's going to be a tough process moving forward for all these evaluators to evaluate. Yeah, that's a good point. The number of people that you have to talk to now that these players have played at so many more schools because of Portal and NIL. Yeah, you used to be one school. You talk to the strength coach. You talk to the offensive coordinator. Talk to the head coach and you're done. Now it's three different schools.

That'll be tough. The strength coach, by the way, you're not the first person that's sort of emphasized that. I've heard many times that the strength coach is the one that will really know more than any other about a player's work ethic, his work habits. Is that true? Yes, it's very important because once you get them in the building here, you've got to make sure their body can be to develop. Some of them might be a little undersized from an upper body, and they can get bigger and a little body. they get stronger and faster, but they got to work at it. If they don't work out, they're not going to get bigger and stronger,

so you take them off the board. You know what I mean? If you're not going to work at in college when you're a young man developing, you're not going to work out of the NFL when you get paid. So work ethic is very critical in the weight room, and we try to talk to as many strength coaches as possible. And most of the time, you can tell, you know, at the combine, they take the shirt.

That's why they take their shirt off at the combine standing in underwear. They're trying to show their physique and what kind of work they put out. They have a little pot-belly and skinny-barreled chest, and you're probably going to say this guy. Yeah. But strength coach is important because I'll talk like me. Yeah, like me. You had mentioned, by the way, previously,

when you talked about Ruben Foster, you said Ruben Foster's tape was one of the best defensive player tapes you had ever looked at. Yeah, I said, linebacker-wise, I said, Jaylen Smith was number one out of Notre Dame, and he just snapped at me and half in the bowl game. And then Ruben was right there after it. sideline to sideline, they can play's physicality, just energy, you know, talking to Coach Sabin

and the type of leader he was, the alpha dog that you want to. We never really had that alpha dog on defense, which I was just dying to get. Right. I mean, and linebacker, for this year, so critical. We've had so many different moving parts of linebacker. Mason's Foster, we try to get into the Band-Aid, and we star of Perry Riley and a bunch of other guys, we try to just, we never got it right, a linebacker. We'll confident did some good things for us.

But I never had that house of dog at linebacker. Ruben was that type of guy. He'd like to pipe or Piper, I thought, I was hoping anyway. I ended up not getting them. But it worked out because we got Johnson, and Johnson's been a good leader for him, a good player for him, obviously. Right. Well, you did get him

eventually, and you said, you know, I think it was the first day of OTAs or first day of minicamp or whatever it was. By the way, I think he's playing. I think he's playing for that one. I think he's in the U.S.L. playing really well. Yeah, he is. I still talk to him every now, and then he's in the U.S.L.

First play of O. Tees, he ran through the B-Gap on a big gap, make a poop leg, stepped on Tyler Catalina's foot, and I heard a scream, and you never want anybody to get hurt about. I was like, oh, no, I can tell that's Ruben and sure enough. Of McLuhan, Bruce, Kyle, who took your advice the most? Who leaned on you the most? I think Kyle, probably. McClellan did, too.

McCorn, you know, Scott was a good evaluator. He worked at it. He was set in his ways. He came from a different place in San Francisco and Seattle and all that. So he really had his network talking to those people out there. I kind of beat to my own drum. I didn't really call other teams and say, hey, do you like this guy or not? I just based on my own opinion on what the scouts told me about him

and the character and all that stuff. Kyle worked extremely well with me. I love Kyle because he was very adamant of a guy who liked and didn't like it. And he had a reason for it. Well, he put it have a reason for why you like a guy or don't like guy, I'm good with it. And sometimes you can slay me. I'll listen to what you say.

But me and Kyle had the best relationship, I think. Scott was fine. But, you know, Bruce was Bruce, Bruce. Bruce is a computer. He's an internet evaluator. So he'll get all those evaluations off the internet. Somehow, I don't know what's all that. How he does that.

But, yeah. Yeah. All right. So the internet evaluator who gets a killed. Yeah. Right, basically reading other people's evaluations of the player or looking at highlight tapes. What did you make of the top 30 visit at Top Golf noise last week the way Washington handled it? That was a little unique.

I think this is a very important pick, obviously. You can't put the emphasis of the importance of this pick, this number two pick. And they have a couple different options. and I don't know the kids at all. And maybe it's just another way. They've done all their evaluations on them. Maybe they feel like they have their rankings already set, Caleb being on the have two, three, and four.

Now they just want to put them out there in a social setting and just see how they communicate and work together with other people, which isn't a bad thing. If it's close between two players and one guy who's just a great leader out there and taking charge of the thing and the other guys just in the corner on a cell phone with his agent, But, you know, I mean, that could get the tide.

I mean, I don't know. I think it's a pretty good idea, really. But hopefully they got them in the office and did for football, too, before they went to top golf. Right. I was going to ask you, how important are those top 30 visits? How were they handled when you were in Washington? Oh, I love them. Yeah, I love them.

It was important for those guys that get with your trainer number one. That's why you bring them in there because there might have been a recheck on a knee or an ankle or a past shoulder injury or whatever it might be. So that's the first reason you bring them in there. Then you want to get them with the position coach for a little while, just fuck them ball and see how they hit it off. And then I get them, offensive coordinator, get them, I get them a defensive coordinator,

and then I get them for a while. You know, you watch some tape together. We might, quarterback, we might have sent him a playbook, like about a 45-play playbook, and let them study it and then come here and grow them on the questions and have him get on the board and just see how he, you know, can talk football with us. does he understand concepts and what is he trying to do

some guys are a lot further along than other guys when it comes to you know football-wise plays concepts protections and all that stuff and you just got to understand that it's not their fault this way they didn't coach so you just got to try to get a feel form of people and communicators and what they're like to be around and what kind of football knowledge they have

what kind of football passion they have is there an example of a player that was in for a top 30 visit that you remember that really changed the opinion on him one way or the other? I wouldn't say. I mean, yeah, it was, but, you know, obviously. Yeah. What?

You know, we had a couple of guys that changed in a positive way. Like, I can remember Jared Stidham came in here. He was off the charts as far as growing up play to communicate. He's now the starting quarterback for the Broncos, maybe. They'll try to get somebody else to replace him But, you know, he went from like a fifth rounder to a second or third rounder in my book And that meeting just talking to him And his ability to communicate and understand football and protections and all that stuff

Make sure he was good But, you know, it's just go back in time and, you know, A.J. Brown was an interesting guy And we had him in here. He came in and recheck for his injuries And he was a lot smarter. He's a smart one of the gun. And some of these guys just don't know on tape how smart they are. when it comes of football until you get them in the building. He hears things about them.

Maybe their lack of days old. Maybe they don't know football that well. They line up on one side because he can't learn the other side. That's because they're in no huddle. That's what they're taught. It's not because they can't learn it. You get them in there and you realize that this guy is a very intelligent person and football player.

That's why you have a meeting. You focused on those that, you know, change your mind for the positive. I guess you don't want to mention those. that changed your mind for the negative? Yeah, no, I mean, some of them, even though they might change your mind to the negative, they just might not be a good in social settings like that.

You know, they might not just be comfortable. Right. The pressure of those things, and they might be a little bit intimidated, but once they get the ball in their hand on the field and they start tackling and running and playing football, they turn into different people, and you've got to understand that as well. Does it mate matches personality?

I mean, maybe, you know, because, you know, I was kind of a shy guy when I, you know, came up, and I probably wouldn't affair too well in these meetings, combined interviews, you know, but I get out of the practice field and different people react differently in live situations when it comes to football than in a social situation. Yeah, that's so true. We're talking about the quarterback position

and maybe a receiver that has to move around. You've got to know a linebacker that has to call a defense of safety that has to, you know, communicate rotations and motions and all that stuff. I think you've got to at least display some kind of football intelligence. And that's where it comes in play. If it's a three technique or five technique or a seven technique defense of end, you know, that's probably on the back burner. Let's see if he can rush a passer.

2019, you just mentioned A.J. Brown and how much he impressed you in his top 30 visit. That's the draft. Obviously, you guys took Dwayne. We've gone through that ad nauseum over the years. Montez traded back into the first round to take him, but it was Terry in the third round. If you had kept your second round pick, was A.J. Brown a possibility?

Oh, A.J. Brown was top of our, yeah. AJ Brown was our top receiver in that draft for sure. But we love Terry. Terry was great. Terry, the senior bowl, I think, outplayed everybody. And the way he worked, you know, another work guy. You know, when you talk to the coaches at Ohio State, you talk to us, I mean, this guy is off the chart.

He was a team captain for two years. So you knew coming in the building, you got yourself a war daddy when it comes to preparation of work ethic. So that was an easy pick in the third. I mean, I would have been upset if we took it in the second if we had a second round day. All right. Let's talk about this draft. So, first of all, is there a position group other than quarterback that you're really interested in in this draft?

I've only done really quarterbacks and receivers. I heard so I'm not a great draft of running backs, but you can always find running back. I think, force, the sixth round if you need one, a lot of people. teams do need one. You just got to figure out what kind of back you need. Is it a pounder? Is it more of an outside edge of the past receiver, third down back? So you got to make sure you hone in on the type of player you want at that position when you draft one. You don't want to draft a 240-pound running back when you need a third-down specialist. But receivers are going to be interesting just because there's a lot of pretty good ones. And every year it seems like there is, and not many of them

pan out. I'm interested because some guy at Texas ran a four, two, one, or whatever it is. but he's a little. He's skinny, and not many guys that have run fast like that, that are a little like that, have really produced, you know, other than maybe of the Shaw Jackson and a couple other guys like that. So I've just got to be careful in your evaluations. I like the bigger receivers personally in this draft. I like the bigger legged guy. He's a big sucker in the second round, maybe. I can get him from South Carolina.

I just like he can return kicks. But the guys from LIS either, interesting, obviously. It's a good draft of receiver, but just got to be careful. sure you know what role they're going to play. When you draft a little receiver that's not very strong, he's not going to be a force in the running game. They're not going to block safetys or all that stuff. So he could be a one-trick pony lined up outside.

You've got to be good enough to the line-up outside when consistently. I don't see a lot of guys doing that that are 180 pounds or less in this draft. I mean, to re-kill would have been a guy that I would imagine when he emerged, maybe some of the thinking on little guys changed a little bit or not? Yeah, but he's stock. He's like a fire hydrant. Yeah, true. Yeah, he's different. You know what? I didn't even evaluate Tyree Kill.

I think we had him off the board for whatever reason. I don't know if his injury or character or whatever. I'd never even saw Tyree Kill. I don't know. Yeah. All right, let's talk about the quarterbacks. What's your process for evaluating these quarterbacks? Take us through what Jay Gruden does when he's evaluating a quarterback for a draft.

Well, first you look at the numbers, you know, the stats and all that stuff, and where he's played at, how many games he's started, how many games he's played, where he's played at. So you get a good general idea for his production, his win-loss rate at college, all that stuff. So the analytic part of it you look at first, you know, if he was a 68% completion guy, he started out in here he's 602. Now he moved up to 75% that we've got better, yards for attempt, all that stuff. You look at the staff.

You've got to click on the tape. You've got to watch it from start of his career. You watch a few games start of his career. Then you watch this whole entire season. I like to start from the beginning of the season to the end of the season, see if he's getting better with the same concepts. You're more comfortable. Is he still making the same mistakes?

All that stuff. And then the evaluation, and then if they play in a senior bowl, obviously the combine is very important. And then you try to talk to the coaches and all that good stuff and continue your evaluation with the meetings and the 15-minute meeting at the combine. and about 30-minute, the 30-man visit at home and try to make your evaluation. It's very tough because you just look back to the last 10 years,

how many guys have not panned out. And you don't have the time with these guys anymore because they've got to play and they're not ready to play and people give up on them. And people say, hey, you draft at a bus. I can you make that mistake. Well, you know, there's going to be some mistakes of this draft. I promise you that. Yeah, there are in every draft.

I mean, it's less than 50% hit rate on the first round in terms of players that get a second contract. But specific to Jay, like the things that you look for when you're watching a quarterback, you know, play one of his games in his final year in college, that you have to see or something that you see that's a big no-no in terms of something that would be translatable. Like is footwork, mechanics, accuracy. Pressure for me. Pressure for me is number one. Pressure, obviously, arm talent. You've got to see the arm's town. If you're looking at him for the first, second, third round,

they're going to have the arm talent pretty much. How it comes out of his hand. But I like to look at pressure. Well, how he handles pressure. You know, does he squat in the pocket and look for running lanes and lose vision downfield? As he, you know, does he be scared of the past rush? Does he step up into throws when people are coming at him?

Does he deliver under pressure? how he handles pre-snap communication. You know, audibles, does he audible all the, does he look at the sideline for his coach to make the call every time or can he handle the audibles? So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff you look at pre-snap, post-map. But I really like pressure when he gets blitz and how he handles that because that's what's going to happen in the NFL,

whether it's a three technique making your guard with or it's an all-out blitz by Brian Flores and a Minnesota Vikings. There's a lot of different areas that you have to understand. It's very important for quarterbacks to handle pressure. and what they do with the ball, how the ball security is. He throw it up for grabs when he gets pressured and he, you know, protect it, does he make good sound football decisions when things aren't perfect?

It's easy for quarterbacks and a three-man rush, throw a hitchhrod outside because it's cover three, you know, but I want to see rotations get them, go through his first, second and third progression, how he works his feet in the pocket, and how he handles pressure. So of the quarterbacks that we're talking about in the draft, Caleb Williams is going to go one to Chicago. I think we all understand that. So let's talk about May, Daniels, McCarthy, Pennix, Jr. Which of those four quarterbacks, because you've watched a lot more since we last spoke,

which of those four handles pressure the best and which of those four handles pressure the worst? Drake May is the biggest. They didn't handle pressure very well, North Carolina. Their offensive line wasn't very good. But he's a big guy. He can escape, all that stuff. Jaden takes some unnecessary sacks some time of time. But obviously his speed can get him out of trouble that others can't.

It won't happen for other quarterbacks. So he's got an elite trait in that speed of getting away from pressure, but he will take some sacks that maybe other guys won't take. JJ didn't really have a whole lot of pressure situation. Honestly, he was in the lead a lot. They ran the ball a lot. They didn't have a lot of third and long. When he did, he handled it pretty well.

But he's slight unseen pretty much. He's a wild card in this draft. is he going to handle? How is he going to be down when they're down? How's he going to be when they're down 14 as a known passing situation? In two years of Michigan, there weren't many games where he was down and had to throw it. So that's a key also. You know, they had to score every time they had the ball because their defense is so bad. And North Carolina is kind of similar. He just couldn't protect. But Michael Panick is interesting because, you know, they say he's not a mobile quarterback, but he ran four

or five at the combine. And he's only backed like, you know, nine times out of three thousand of attempts. So he's obviously got some pocket awareness. He can handle pressure, and he throws it off his back foot, and he can deliver the ball on time and accurately, despite, you know, some pressure situation. Michigan kind of put a number on him, obviously. He didn't play very well against some, but other games, he handled it pretty well. So they all have their, they all have their positives. I could talk all four of those guys up and convince you to take him at number two, and I could probably come up with some reasons why you don't want to draft them in the first round. So they're all a crab shoot. You've got to figure out. That's why these individual meetings

are very important to get the dome, what kind of football intellect they have, what kind of leaders are going to be, and make sure you have your plan in place. If you got Jay Daniels, how are you going to handle them? You're going to run between the tackle with them, like Josh Allen. I don't know. Obviously, his own reads and all that are going to be good. Drake, May can do all that stuff. He's a physical guy. You know, JJ's going to be a little bit limited in that regard. Obviously, Pennix is going to be limited. So you've got to have a plan as the offensive coordinator. If you draft Michael Pennix Jr., hey, we're going to be a dropback team, spread team,

and then rip it down the field. That's what you want with him. And then obviously JJ is more of a ball control type guy. And obviously, Jayden's a wild card. We can run the zone reason. We do a lot of different things with the quarterback under center, getting them outside the pocket for fun stuff with them. So that's why I said Jayden probably is a pick because there's more things you can do

offensively, and I think he'll help your running game more with Austin Neckler. and Brian Robinson, Jr., because people got to count for him on every play. Because if you don't, it's not his own reader. It's not a stramble for five yards out of mound. It's a 35, 40-yard game. So I would probably err on the side of that just because of the running game benefit that you have with Jayden. So that was the next question. You're on the clock for Washington at number two.

Caleb Williams has gone one, and it sounds like you would take Jaden Daniels. Yeah, I probably would. I like the way he's improved since Arizona State. He's gotten better in the pocket. He got it more comfortable. He had great receivers at LSU, which is great. I think those guys helped him become a better passer and a more patient passer, more of a passer than a runner from within the pocket.

They helped them get better, and I think Jaden helped those guys get better. So I like that part of his game. From Arizona State, LSU, he's gotten a lot better. His completion percentage has gotten better. His ball placement's got better. He doesn't have the pop in his arm like Caleb Williams. He doesn't have the arm talent to Drake, has, but he can get the ball out there good enough, and he has that elite skill and then

running the football. Just a matter of, can he say healthy for 17 games? Because for him to be successful, he's going to have to run. He's going to get hit. You just hope the best, you just hope that he handles, you know, when he gets about to get hit to fly and get out of balance when he can and not take the huge hit. So you just answered the next question, your big concern about him. Who would be after Jaden?

I would probably, you know, I don't know. Jay J.J. is too much of a wild card for me. Obviously, he's more ready. JJ's kind of like when I evaluated Andy Bolton. Andy Bolton had three good years of PCU, three and a half years at CECU. You didn't make many mistakes, pretty accurate with the football. They did a lot of things under center in the shotgun. They were more pro football ready at TCU.

That's why we wanted him bad than the second round, because, you know, he didn't have the flashy arm town. He didn't have the great speed, but he had nuisance speed. he could get himself out of trouble, and he knew he can handle a lot of information, and that's going to be important as well. As far as pre-snap recognition, getting your team in the right run play, bringing the tight ends in for past protection or moving your back or readjusting the bike and past protection to protect himself.

So that's a critical part of the game, and if he has enough armed talent, then I would probably err on the side of JJ, and then I'd probably take Drake May for his upside. I'd rather take Drake May if I had a quarterback in place. It might have been like 30,000. 35, 38 years old. It might be on the last two years of his contract. I'll have him developed a year or two.

We'll kind of spot a medal because his accuracy is an issue right now. I don't think he's quite ready to start a game right now. I'd love to get him in the building and have him sit for a year or two and then just watch it progress and work with him. And then obviously Pennix Jr., you know, the two-me injury, you can't overlook those two-me injuries at Indiana. But he's a gifted pastor. If I had a great receiving group, you know, like Miami about with Tyree Kill and Waddle,

He'd be a guy I'd look at because he's a great drop-back passer. He could put the ball out there more accurately. Despite his percentage being lower than these guys, he's an accurate pastor down the field. They push the ball down the field more than most teams in college football. On Drake May real quickly, is the stuff that concerns you that would make you err on the side of sitting him for a year and preferring to have him, say, in a Jordan-love situation behind Aaron Rogers for a couple of years? are those issues, would you be confident that you could fix them? Yeah, he has enough talent that I think it would be worth taking.

I'm like, like New England, if they want to play Jacoby percent for a year and just let Derek and Drake sit down, and maybe he hits it. Maybe he hit a home row with him, he's a training camp and OTAs, and he's just ripping it, and, holy cow, he's a lot more accurate, and we thought, he's going to beat out of Jacoby right now. Hell, yeah, let's go. But, you know, playing a veteran for a year and letting the guy sit, and listen to the terminology and understand offense.

Because these guys are coming into a whole new offense with different words, different verbiage, different terminology, different protections, everything is different for these guys. And it's going to be, it's a nine on a young player. And Drake's only 21 years old. So, yeah, I would really like him for Drake to sit for a year. Panics has played more football. He's like 22, 23 years old.

He's played five years. Two in Indiana, I think three at Washington. So he might be more ready from that standpoint than Drake. and then obviously Jayden's played five years and they had a pretty good offence Messmaire's a good offensive coordinator there at LSU they did some good pro-concepts so he might be ready as well but he just never know

Kevin he just never know on some of these guys so you get them in your building and watch them with the offense all we'll wrap it up with this two quick questions then first of all I'm assuming going back to the first time we talked about this you said Caleb Williams

Caleb Williams he's your he's your number one right overall Yeah, he's got the best arm talent, not really close. The way the ball comes out of his hand and effortless from different arm angles, accuracy. Yeah, he just got a lot of work. I mean, I could hammer him if you want to be to with his ball security and taking so many sacks. I'm always trying to make a big play when nothing's there. He just got to understand that sometimes it's okay to throw it away.

This protects football with the fight another day. It's okay to punt. You know, at USC, they had a horrific defense and he probably felt like, hell, we don't score on this drive. We're going to be down two touchdown. And that probably has a lot of impact on your decision-making also. So you've got to rein them in a little bit, but you also have to understand what makes Cailed Cale's his ability to escape.

But he's going to make some humongous play because of his ability to escape and throw off platform. But he's got to rain in a little bit and make sure he protects the ball. Over 30 fumbles in his career is not good. So we've got to get that honed in a little bit. Beyond the quarterbacks, tell me a player or two that you really like in this draft. I mentioned Xavier Leggett. you know, this is a big guy in a second round or so. There's a lot of receivers, like I mentioned, they're smaller,

they can run faster, but this is a big guy that can, I think, can really help you in the running game. They'll dig out state season. And I keep mentioning that the success of Christian McCaffrey is obviously he's a great back, but they have three receivers that are physical that can block. Dibbo, Iuke, Chowan, Jenny, these guys will get after you. And that's important. All these bubble streams and all these perimeter runs and things of that nature.

You've got to have receivers that are willing. to block you know that are big and physical. That's why I err on the side of the physical receivers a little bit more so. If I have my choice between fat and a guy that's 510, 175 that runs a 4-3, I probably are on the side of a bigger guy just because, you know, throughout the course of a football game, you know, you're going to have 30 to 35 runs, and who's going to be in there blocking for him? You know, you have somebody some physicality in your room,

and I think he provides that. It's just for a late-round sleeper of the receivers I've done, and not a late round, but a middle round sleeper. Like his age, I think it would be interesting to have. I don't know him as far as his mental abilities and how he handles, you know, terminology and all that stuff, but he's from a skill standpoint. I like where he's at.

Appreciate this a lot. Go hit him straight today. I'll try. Thanks, Kevin. Jay Gruden, everybody. At Coach underscore Jay Gruden on X on Twitter. Jay's a good follow. We'll get one more opinion on today's show about the draft, and this one will come from a quarterback, a college quarterback, Scott McBrion.

That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I want to tell you about Harry's. Many of you have probably heard of Harry's razors and shaving products, maybe even from this podcast. They've been an occasional advertiser over the years. I'm a customer. I have been for a while now. I think it goes back to the first shipment of product that they sent me

before the first time they advertised on the pod maybe four or five years ago. They found a way Harry's did to make a beautifully designed razor for a fraction of the price of other big brands. I've been using their Truman handle. It's a two-tone handle with a great grip. It provides a close shave, no matter if you've got a beard and you're shaving around it, or if you cleanly shave on a daily basis.

their German-engineered blades stay sharp and stay sharp for a long period of time. They've got customizable delivery options for scheduled refills for as low as $2. That's half of what you pay other big brands. Right now you can get a five-blade razor, weighted handle, foaming shave gel, and a travel cover for just three bucks at harries.com slash sheen. Harris has the highest customer satisfaction in the shaving industry, and this is a no-risk trial. If you don't like your shave, no worries, it's on them. Convenient subscription options exist that you can cancel at any time.

Getting the best doesn't mean spending the most when you shave with Harry's. Get started with a $13 trial set for just $3 at harries.com slash sheen. That's harries.com slash S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a $3 trial set. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. And MyBooky will give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. My bookie's got everything you need for the NFL draft right now.

The odds for the second overall pick, Jaden Daniels. going number two and the odds are climbing. Right now, he is at minus 526. An overwhelming favorite to go number two overall. This is the biggest favorite he has been. That means to win $100, you've got to wager $526. You've got to risk $526 to win $100. Drake Mays at plus $400.

straight May, $100 will win you $400. But Jaden Daniels now really a heavy favorite to go number two overall tomorrow night. MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin, D.C. Jumping on with me right now is a quarterback to talk about quarterback. Scott McBrion played at Maryland from 2001 to 2003. two great seasons under Ralph Freedion, two bowl seasons where the Terps won big in the Peach Bowl over Tennessee. I was there that night. That was awesome.

Also destroyed West Virginia, which was a former school of Scott McBrions, in the Gator Bowl won New Year's Day. That was a lot of fun. Scott was such a good quarterback in college. Played in the NFL with the Packers for a little bit, played in the CFL. as well. But he joins me right now to get his perspective on the quarterbacks. He's a huge skins fan, huge Washington commanders fan. He's following the draft specific to the quarterbacks. And first of all, let everybody know how you're doing because it's not like you're one of those guys out in the media all the time. Well, I tell you what, Johnny Holliday is always trying to get me

in the booth. Who knows? Maybe I'll be back in the media one of these days. But yeah, I appreciate you having me on, Kevin. It's good. Come back on the air here and talk to you a little bit about some quarterback play. All's good on my end, you know, just staying busy, keeping my four kids under control or in tournaments every weekend and never stop. You know how it is? You've been there, done that.

Yeah, these are the years, man. Enjoy them. They fly by really quickly. So tell me right now if you were Washington on the clock at two who they should take. Oh, my God. What a deep question you're going to come out of Gates with. that's a tough question. Obviously, if I had all the answers, I'd be getting paid the big bucks.

There's some solid quarterbacks on the board, as we know. Everybody knows about Caleb, right? What a tremendous player. Got a little bit of an inside scoop with Caleb, one of his former quarterback coaches, who actually coached me at the math at Chris BallShuff, talked to him about Caleb before. He worked out Caleb and was a part of his life for many years, especially as a high school kid.

And, you know, from him, you know, hearing the type of, of talent that Caleb has. I mean, hearing it from him saying that that kid can make any throw on the planet. And he's seen a lot of quarterbacks come through his day from the Tim Strack ends to, you know, he coached me back in the day, and he's coached many other quarterbacks around the area. But Caleb is a special talent, once in a generation talent, and he definitely has all the tools to be that number one pick. He can lead a football team, as we've seen it at the collegiate level. Can he do at the NFL level? Yeah, I think he can, Kevin. and, you know, just it's going to be fun to watch him grow and mature at that next level.

It's really hard to pass up, Caleb. It really is. I know you got Drake May, you got Jaden Daniels for me as a Skins fan. Yeah, we've got to assume that Caleb Williams goes to Chicago number one. So they're on the clock, and Caleb Williams is gone. So who are you taking? Yeah, I think I've got to take Jaden Daniels. I really do.

You know, people are going to talk about Drake May. Obviously, a great talent as well. We've seen Sam Howe. We've seen what the ATC is about. I just feel like Jaden Daniels is a solid player who can do it all. You can make the throws. I've watched film on him. I actually watched his pro day.

Some of the throws that he was making were absolute silly throws on the run, off the back foot, across his body. And the guy has true talent. And he can run. He can move, right? He can avoid the rush and he can pick up a first down with his feet. So if I'm Washington, I think I've got to go Jaden, Daniel. Is there anything in watching him at LSU that concerns you at the pro level?

Well, here's one thing that we can talk about. Right. He likes to use his feet, right? And he's not afraid to take a hit. He's not afraid to pick up a first down with a speed scramble and dip his shoulder and try to get a first down. That can be scary. We saw that happen with RG3, right? RG3 like to move with his feet and, you know, sometimes it costs him. Jay and Daniels need to learn how to wave the white flag, as Charlie Tap used to say, get down, fly, get out of bounds, right? Live to play another play. That's what we always used to say as quarterback. Hey, don't be the hero. Live to play another play. Your team needs to. So if there's anything that's concerning, it's that, is that a good problem to have? I don't know. I know he likes to be a

competitor. He likes to play. But more importantly, he's a leader, man. So I'll take the good with the bad with Jane Daniel. Tell me what you like about Drake May and what you don't like about Drake May. Well, look, he's got the physical abilities, right? My only knock on Drake May, if there is a knock, right? Look, all these quarterbacks have talent, right? I mean, they all do. They didn't, they wouldn't be in the position that they're in right now.

But my one knock is just the competition, right? And I'm an ACC guy through and through, right? You know that, Kevin. I love the ACC, born and raised in ACC, played in the ACC, right? Is the ACC at the same level as the SEC? No, right? No, we obviously know that.

So I feel like Drake May, is Drake a true step above Sam Howe? I just don't think so. I just don't think so. Is it a side step? Maybe not. Maybe it's a half a step forward, right? And again, look, if I had all the answers,

I would rather you ask me this question next year, this time next year, and I'll really give you my thoughts, right? Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. But I just feel like the level of play that Jaden Daniels plays again, LSU and at SEC Conference, we all know it's a big, massive, prime time game every week against solid competition, and Jaden Daniels has proven that he can win against the best competition in the world. What do you think about J.J. McCarthy? He's the other one that's being, you know, discussed as a potential top five pick.

Yeah, he is. I like J.J. McCarthy at the collegiate level, obviously, being coached and mentored under Jim Barball, right? That says a lot. I just don't know if he's a finished product. He's still growing as a quarterback. He's put in that pro-style offense. He's got the good tools, mental, physical. He's got it all.

I just don't know if he's ready right now for that next level. Remember, we have to have somebody to come in and compete. Like now. I don't know if J.J. McCarthy can do that. I do believe J.N. Daniels can come in and compete now. I just don't know if J.J. McCarthy is ready. Now, he's got the physical tools, right? He's going to continue to develop mentally as a quarterback. But I just, I'm not positive that he's ready to actually compete at the highest level and lead an NFL team. But again, I don't have all the answers. I know you wish that I did, but I don't. But I like in Daniels. Is that number one pick? Now, I do have a couple of sleep. If you want to ask me that. I do want to ask you that. But is one of them, Michael Penix, Jr., another lefty like yourself? God, I love the lefty.

I love the lefty spin. You know that, Kevin. I love the lefty spin. I actually like Michael Panix Jr., right? I mean, I've watched a lot of film on him. He can make all the throats. He's got a cannon of an arm. Injuries might be a factor down the line, but I do like that kid.

I'm playing a tough conference, played his heart out, and he can definitely spin it. I love the way he throws the football. You want to go to my sleeper? Yeah. Boenix. I really love Boe Nix. Okay. Tell me why.

Now, I just love, look, how many games has that guy started? A lot. Like, 400 games. I mean, he's been in college for 10 years, right? I mean, the guy has played at the high, yeah, the guy's played at a high, high, high, high level, and has won for, for, what, he played for five years? I mean, the guy is an athlete. If you go back and watch this film, I watched his pro day, too. I mean, he makes all the throws.

He rarely misses a throw. Now, again, we all know that everybody has the physical tools at this level, Kevin, it's more about the game of quarterback. The NFL is played from the shoulders up. We all know that. Look, I was a pretty good quarterback in college, right? When I got to the NFL, I struggled, man. Those bullets are flying at a faster speed at a higher level, and you've got to be able to make decisions before the ball is even snapped. You've got to really know where you're going with football before the ball snapped.

And that defense is not showing you. what they're coming with. They're going to disguise it and move it to last second. So does Bo Knicks have the mental capacity to start right away? I'm not sure, but I know he's got the physical tools, and I've seen it at a high level for the last five years. So if I had a sleeper pick, it would be Bo Nix. What was it like when you got to the NFL and you were part of the Packers for a brief period of time, and Brett Farve was there, and correct me if I'm wrong, was Aaron Rogers there at the same time you were there or not.

No. Aaron Rogers got drafted. 2005. Green Bay sent me of NFL Europe, correct? So I was in Green Bay 04 with Brett, and then after the season,

the Packer sent me over to NFL Europe, back when that league was around, that league doesn't exist anymore. But for guys who didn't get reps during the season, they threw them over to NFL Europe and you represented your team

over in Europe. So I played for the Rhyme-Fierre over in Duceville, Germany. After the season, When I came back to Green Bay, the Packers had drafted A-Rod. So I was a kid with my age. I'm like, man, you smash me in between two Hall of Famers. How the heck did you do that?

So I never got to compete or play against Aaron because when I came home from NFL Europe, they had already put the pink slip in my locker. So I walked in the locker room, saw the pink slip, went up and interviewed, and I was out of there. So I never got to compete or see the field with A-Rod. But with Brett, I mean, God, I mean, he's all you can imagine. I mean, my childhood idol growing up, and I got to be in a meeting room with him, you know, on a daily basis and learn from him. And it was a relationship that was built and that we still have. So I'll cherish that one forever.

You still talk to Brett Farv? Once in a while, once in the blue moon. You know, I'll be able to text him. I'll be able to, you know, DM him on Instagram will communicate. But, yeah, he was just to watch him, watch an NFL legend just, you know, operate at a high. high level, how he practiced, how he treated his body, how he treated his teammate, how he was coachable. Learning from him, it's like, man, it was a true honor to be able to sit on the bench, hold a clipboard, and learn from that guy. You know, I just pulled up that roster from that year

with Green Bay. Doug Peterson was there as well. What do you remember about him? He sure was. He was a coach on and off the field, and I swear, that's why they kept him, because, you know, Did he have the talent to back Brett Barv up? No, he didn't. But, man, that guy, he was a true coach. And I saw it back then. I mean, he took me, and Doug took me under his wing, you know, had film sessions with me, helped me study, helped me with Reed's on the field.

I mean, we'd be in Skellier, we'd be in a team period, and he'd be telling, he was a coach on the field. You know, he wasn't even getting any reps. It wasn't his drill. It wasn't his series. And he was coaching me on, hey, read the flat defender, okay, cover two. You can't throw a hitching cover two. you've got to let it rip here.

Like he was just being a, he was an overall coach to me, and he didn't have to do that. So I've always respected Doug, and I've always been a big fan of, they called him Dougie. I've always been a big fan of Dougie ever since he kind of took me a little lefty, rookie under his belt, and kind of taught me the rope. What you mentioned just the speed of the game, what else made it a really hard transition for you from being an outstanding college quarterback and then getting to the NFL? What was the biggest overall challenge? And the challenge that a lot of these young guys are going to face with as much talent as they have?

Well, I always compare it to you have to learn quick. I mean, you've got to learn on the fly. You have to be able to absorb information. It's like when I transferred to Maryland, Ralph Preachian's playbook was a dictionary. I mean, it really was. It was a blessing in disguise that I had to sit out my sophomore year because I had the whole year to learn that playbook, learn Ralph offense, his system, his terminology. If I had to go in and play right away, I would have never been able to do it because there's so much information. Now, remember, we were running Stan

Humphrey's offense from San Diego Chargers Super Bowl days. We were running that offense. That was an NFL offense that we were running in Maryland. To be able to come in and pick that up right away in two weeks would be impossible. So going to the NFL, it's the same thing, man. I mean, you need to pick up that terminology, pick up that playbook, understand the offense like the back of your hand in two weeks in training camp. And if they think that you got it, then you can stay, then you can get reps, then you can compete for a starting job. That's really hard to do. Now, of course, there's mini-camps and you have some time to really pick up that system. But for me, I had to learn everything quick and have to adapt to the speed of the game. So

that's hard for any quarterback to learn. Thanks for doing this. I'm glad you're well. Best to you and your family. Enjoy the draft. having you, Kevin. I really appreciate it. Looking forward to it. Scott McBrion, everybody. For my money in my lifetime of watching Maryland football, the second greatest quarterback in school history. The greatest is Boomer Ossison, but Scott McBrion is number two, in my opinion. And that just reminded me of why didn't I ask him about Leah Tunga Viloa's pro prospects? I should have. We had that conversation when Leah's career came to an end a few months back,

and Leah holds most of the passing records at Maryland. And I said at the time, he's been a really, really good quarterback at Maryland, and he holds all these records. But he's nowhere near the greatest quarterback in school history. Boomer Siasen for my lifetime of watching Maryland football is the greatest quarterback in school history. And Scott McBride's number two. And then after that, we can have a debate.

But Maryland's had so many great quarterbacks. I should have asked him about Leah's pro prospects. My guess is that Leah won't get drafted, but may get an undrafted free agent contract and be in a training camp this summer. One more thing before we wrap it up for the day. I got this from Jason. Jason wrote, Kevin, since they're not trading back

and they've made that clear, why don't they just say it's Daniels if it's Daniels? Well, Jason, here's a theory. the league doesn't want them to say it's Daniels because it's a much better cliffhanging drama tomorrow night after Caleb Williams goes one to Chicago if everybody's sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for Washington's pick. Do I think that happened? No, I actually don't think that happened. But it is true that now that we know that number one is Caleb Williams to Chicago, the drama and the conversation for weeks, if not months,

has been about what Washington will do it too. And if that gets out there as that's what they're doing and a lot of people believe that's what they're doing, it won't be as dramatic tomorrow night. But I wonder how quickly they'll turn that card in tomorrow night after Caleb Williams goes number one. We will soon find out. That was a busy show.

was not as long as it probably could have been or should have been with four guests, which I think is a record on a show for me. But thanks to Scott McBrion, thanks to Jay Gruden, thanks to Ralph Vakiano, and thanks to Smokin'Alcocan. All right, that's it for today, back tomorrow with Tommy. And here to sing the Star Spangled Banner, please. Welcome back, Grammy Award-winning Barrett's on John Brancy. I think would surprise we had the twilight's last evening.