The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jay Gruden On QB Pursuit

Episode Date: February 18, 2022

Kevin with Jay Gruden today on Washington's pursuit of a quarterback, the Super Bowl, and more NFL-related topics. Kevin opened the show explaining the difference between the Dan Snyder/Washington and Jerry Richardson/Carolina situations. He also weighed in on the college football decision to not expand its playoff format.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Jay Gruden's going to be on the show today with us. He's coming up shortly. We'll talk a lot about Washington football,

the Washington commander's pursuit of a quarterback. We'll talk some NFL with him. We'll even get his thoughts a few days later after the Super Bowl. Jay Gruden coming up shortly. Don't forget to rate us and review us if you haven't done it already. especially on Apple, big push coming up for us on the sales side. So every rating, a five-star rating and every positive one-to-two, three-sentence review really does help us. Appreciate all of you who have done it.

So I want to get to a couple of things here before we get to Jay. I got a text from a friend of mine saying, why isn't the Washington situation treated the same way as the Jerry Richardson situation? I think that's been out there a lot. Like, why did Jerry Richardson get accused of sexual harassment and lose his team, but Dan's still holding on? Well, interestingly, this guy, Mike McCann, who's a really good writer for Sportico, wrote about this yesterday. And I found this yesterday. It's a story titled NFL Lifetime Tenure, why Snyder and Ross, meaning Stephen Ross, the owner of the Dolphins, probably won't lose teams. and he starts off by writing there are increasing rumblings that Washington commander's owner Daniel Snyder and Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross might lose their respective teams in the wake of serious misconduct allegations.

Don't be so sure. In the league's 102 year history during which various persons of questionable ethics have owned teams, no majority owner has ever been voted out. Force termination on account of misconduct would be unprecedented. Like other major pro leagues, the NFL is designed to protect, not in danger, ownership investments. Removal would require, and I think most of us know this, among other conditions, a vote to remove by at least three-fourths of the other 31 other ownership groups. If it were easy to expel owners and publicly shame them in the process, prospective buyers might be less willing to invest billions of dollars into these franchises. Owners have a kind of security on par with university tenure, except it's worth much more money than being a professor. And then he writes about the Snyder recent accusations and the Ross recent accusations.

And then he gets to the analogy of Snyder and Jerry Richardson. And I think, again, I think a lot of you have asked that question. and I've said before Jerry Richardson wasn't forced out. He decided on his own to sell the team. Well, Mike McCann in Sportico wrote the following. Some have created the analogy that the Ross and Snyder situations are similar to the Jerry Richardson in December of 2017 situation. Richardson owned the Carolina Panthers and was 81 years old.

At least four women who worked for the team accused him of sexual harassment and inappropriate physical contact. Richardson was also accused of directing a racial slur at a Black Scout. The allegations were contained in a Sports Illustrated investigative report. Within a couple of days of the report's publication, Richardson announced he would sell the Panthers. Five months later, David Tepper agreed to buy the team for $2.28 billion. Meanwhile, Michael McCann writes, The NFL hired Mary Joe White, a former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York and a former chair of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate. And literally six months after he decided he would sell the Panthers, they had the investigation results. They confirmed the allegations against Richardson. He was fined $2.75 million.

But he was already at that point ready to sell. the team and in the process of selling the team. By the way, remember Dan's fine or the team's fine was $10 million. Richardson, after an investigation, confirmed these allegations, was fine $2.75 million. Just something to keep in mind, we don't know if Wilkinson confirmed anything because we don't know the results of the Wilkinson report. We just know that the organization was fined $10 million, and it was said by the league's statement that this was a very top. toxic workplace for women, which included misogyny, bullying, and intimidation. So let me continue to read from this.

While the Richardson analogy works to the extent that it involves an NFL owner accused of serious misconduct and arguably works better for Snyder since, like Richardson, Snyder's been accused of sexual misconduct, the analogy fails in other ways. First, the NFL caught a break when Richardson voluntarily and, you know, quickly agreed to sell. It's been speculated that Richardson was nudged out by Gidell and fellow owners, but a nudge that doesn't induce a person to move is inconsequential. Neither Snyder nor Ross has given any indication they plan to sell. Indeed, they seem ready to fight. Second, age might have played a role with octogenarian Richardson perhaps eyeing retirement. Ross is the same age,

but Snyder's only 57. Finally, the NFL's actually. punishment wasn't expulsion, but a $2.75 million fine, that would be an enormous penalty from almost everyone to pay, but for most owners being billionaires. It's really not that much money. There's also just discussion about the Donald Sterling thing. Well, let me just recap the Richardson thing. Richardson voluntarily sold his team after these allegations came out. And maybe he was on it on the verge of selling it anyway at 81 years old. So Snyder is not volunteering to sell his team. So that's the big difference. Richardson was not forced out. He had sexual harassment allegations, which by the way were proven by an investigation. He also had a racial

slur allegation, which was also backed up and confirmed by the investigation. Snyder does not have a racial allegation from anybody. But the bottom line is Richardson said, you got me, I'm going to sell the team. I'm 81 years old. I'm ready to move on anyway. And Snyder is not 81 years old and is not going to volunteer to sell the team. Not yet anyway. I was just going to mention that there's also in this story kind of a discussion of the Donald Sterling situation. Remember with the Clippers? Donald Sterling has been used as a precedent Mike McCann writes for the Snyder situation. But the Details are much different. Sterling was caught on tape saying racist remarks. Claims against Snyder and Ross appear to be based on witness recollections rather than physical evidence.

Like the NFL, the NBA requires at least three quarters of the majority owners to vote out an owner, but it's unclear whether there were enough votes to remove Sterling, so the NBA never held a vote. Instead, a judge deem Sterling mentally incapacitated, transferred control of the team to his wife, and she sold the team to Steve Balmer. And then he writes, the procedure to remove an NFL owner might risk, quote, the people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones effect.

Yeah, that's the issue we've always talked about. You know, of the other 31 owners, if they start throwing stones in a glass house, it's going to come back and get them to. Anyway, I thought that explained the differences between the Jerry Richardson situation from 2017-2018 and the Snyder situation now. One other thing to get to before we get to Jay Gruden. Earlier today, college football decided not to expand its playoff format.

They're going to stick with the four-team format through the 2025 season. That means that the next open opportunity for an expanded college football playoff would be 2026. This was Bill Hancock, the college football playoff executive director earlier today. The board of managers has accepted a recommendation from the management committee to continue the current four-team playoff for the next four years. At the same time, the board expects the management committee to continue its discussions of a new format that would go into effect for the 2026, 2027 season. Remember, if you're forgetting this, that back in the spring, college football announced through this committee led by Bill Hancock that there had been a proposal that was received very favorably for a 12-team format. format was going to allow for the top six conference champions to earn births, regardless of which conference they were in. The remaining six spots would be at-large bids as determined by the

college football playoff selection committee. First round games would have been played on the campus of the higher-seeded team two weeks after conference championship games. Quarter-final matchups would have taken place on Jan 1 or Jan 2, and the top four seeds would have received buys in the proposed format. Imagine what the 12-team playoff would have been like in that first round. A quadruple header Saturday, you know, two weeks after the conference championship games, which really means it's the week after the Army Navy game. And you have, you know, 12 noon. You've got the 5-seed and the 12-seed. You have UCF as the 12-seed at LSU in Death Valley. And then at 3.30, you get the 7 versus the 10.

And you've got Nebraska hosting a game, or Ohio State or Michigan hosting a game in some iconic venue. Then at 6.45, you get the 8 and a 9 seed. And then, you know, at 10 p.m. final kickoff, Eastern time, you know, probably a West Coast USC hosting somebody in a 611 matchup. it would be one of the great days on the sports calendar. And then the winners would go on to face the four by teams in the quarterfinals on January 1 or January 2. It would be whatever day the NFL is not playing. And if it's during the week, it would be Jan 1 or Jan 2.

Oh, my God. I don't, reading through the reasons why they didn't do it. There are several reasons. The ACC Commissioner thinks that they've got bigger. fish to fry right now with NIL and transfer portal. The Big Ten wanted automatic bids for the Power 5. Well, a 12-team format is de facto automatic bid for one of the Power 5. I don't know why they push that. The Pack 12 had a big issue with the Rose Bowl not being played on January 1 or January 2. So, ridiculous stuff. Number one, this would have been much better for fans. Number two, the argument

against the argument that says it would have ruined the best regular season in all of sports. I disagree. It would have enhanced the regular season. Instead of having many, many teams completely eliminated and playing kind of meaningless games with the other playoff spots, an additional eight, you'd have so many more meaningful games at the end of the year, whether you were playing for a conference championship or whether or not you were playing for an at-large or, you know, one of the other six bids. Instead of having a conversation among six teams making the final four, you'd have a conversation about 30 teams making the 12th,

well into late October and mid-November. Apparently, they are leaving close to a half billion dollars on the table by not doing this over the next four years. Usually in sports, it's all about the money. Apparently, it's not here. I think it's a big mistake. I think college football, this playoff, has gotten stale already. It's been the same teams or seemingly the same teams, Clemson, Bama, Georgia.

The games haven't been super competitive. We had two blowouts this year, even though we had Cincinnati and Michigan, two teams that hadn't been there before. But, yeah, I think the college football expansion should have happened. And there was so much momentum at one point for it to happen. But clearly, these people can't get out of their own way. All right, Jay Gruden next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, on the podcast today is the former Washington Redskins head coach, Jay Gruden, who we've had on the podcast before and everybody's always enjoyed it.

Look, I think you should be, I know that you've gone for a couple of OC jobs here recently. I've told you before, I think you'd be an outstanding, like whether in studio or, you know, game analyst, doing this stuff. You know, you've done a bunch of radio stuff, like on my station with Chris and Pete. You've done podcasts like mine. So I know you've held out the hope of coaching again one day. I did read the New Orleans thing. They ended up keeping Pete Carmichael, right, as the OC?

Yes, exactly, yep. So is there any other opportunity to coach this year? I don't know. If you have any ideas of how to do this podcast stuff for analyst, man, let me know. I'd love to get into that role, too. That'd be fun for me. But, you know, Kevin O'Connell just got the job of Minnesota. You know, I've spoken with him a little bit.

I doubt, you know, it's a long shot, and then, who knows, you know, but we'll see what happens. So if it ends up being a second year not coaching as much as you want to do it, would you make a more serious run to be a full-time broadcaster? I would like to, but the opportunities aren't out there for me. I'm a little old, I guess. So, you know, people are going with the younger analyst, the ex-player type guys, so it's hard to get into. But, yeah, I'd love to give it a run.

All right. Well. I think I'd be pretty entertaining, at least. You know, I might not be able to be on air for very long if I get booted off. But, yeah, no, I'd like to give it a shot. Well, I don't, you wouldn't get booted off. I mean, you know your shit. So it would be, and, by the way, you're a very good communicator.

Those two things are like the requirements, you know, and actually knowing your stuff isn't necessarily a requirement. for everybody. But you're a good communicator and you've got a good sense of humor. So I think a lot of that would work in your favor. But on the podcast front, yeah, I can definitely give you some ideas and help you if you really were serious about doing something like heading into, you know, next year or even into the draft and stuff.

But anyway, before we get into... You'll be my agent. I'll give you 2%. Well, there's going to be some negotiating 2%. Let me just tell you, isn't a great first. offer on your part. I'm kidding. Of course. I was... Two percent of nothing, nothing. Yeah, of course. I'll help you, though, in some way if you're serious about it. But anyway, before we get to, like, specific Washington quarterback stuff, what did you think of the Super Bowl?

Yeah, I thought it was a good game. I think it's kind of neat to see the big-time players step up. You know, I see, you know, the Aaron Donald's Matthew Stafford, the Super Cup, step up and make some big plays in that game and feel a deal. But, you know, I just hate to see the game marred by questionable calls again. You know, it just seems like every year there's a call or two in the game that changes the course of the game. You know, whether it's the face mask on Jalen or the offensive PI, the non-holding call by Logan, whatever, no, Logan Wilson by the Bengals or the off sides on Aaron Donald on third and one or what have you. There's a number of them that you just wish that it didn't feel like it was referee decided. but I still think the better team won and the Rams deserved to win the Super Bowl.

Yeah, the T. Higgins' face mask on Ramsey was a blatant miss. And I really thought, I kind of liked the Rams a lot going into the game. Who did you like going into the game? I think the Rams, like I said, I think the better team won. Yeah. It's kind of nice to see the team on paper that's better, have better skill, better defensive line play, better offensive line play. better defensive backplay, they won the game.

They're better just about at every position. And you can toss up the quarterback, and maybe the receivers are probably a tossed up, you know. But overall, I think Bram's had a better roster. Was Aaron Donald the best player on the field? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, he's the best defensive player in pro football. He has been for quite a while.

You know, he's the guy that changes the game. And sometimes it might not be, he might not show up on the stat sheet, but he's taken up double teams, he's getting pressure, and then come the fourth quarter, he's going to make a play, he's going to steal the deal. I said he's the greatest closer in pro sports of the defense alignment, I think, to ever play the game. You know, the team needs to drive to beat you.

Aaron Donald's going to show up and make a play to end it. I don't know how many games he's won in the fourth quarter to steal a deal for the Rams over the last four or five years. It's been a lot. The last two plays specifically for the Bengals, the third and one were Samage, the guy you coached was in the game and got stopped by Donald. And then the drop back, not, you know, another play call,

would just give me your thoughts on the third and one call and the fourth and one call? They had plenty of time to get in field goal range. And they still had, I think, two timeouts left. But what were your thoughts on those two Zach Taylor calls? I wasn't too upset with a third and one call. There's a lot of teams that try to just pound it in there for a yard. You know, unfortunately, pounded it inside to get a yard with Aaron Donald does not trade a matchup.

And I personally, when I was watching the game on TV, I thought Aaron Donald landed about a yard and a half off the sides. I could be wrong, but it looked like he was offside. Right. He was in the grill of the guard, like, right? I mean, it wasn't even fair. But then the fourth and one call, I was a little, you know, I wasn't a big fan of just going true empty without any help on the outside

or no bunches or pick plays or anything like that. No, it's going to be fires owner man-to-man. Just do a straight drop back out of empty is a little bit odd. But, you know, leaving Aaron Donald final one again was a tough deal for me. You know, it's just something they've been doing. You know, they did. They went empty early in the game on fourth and one. Joe Burrell scrambled for the first down and they've had success with it,

getting those five whiteouts out on the pattern and unfortunately, it didn't work out for them. Right now, if you had your choice, I'm leaving Mahomes out of the conversation. If you had your choice of Herbert, Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow, right now for your franchise moving forward, which of the three would you choose? Wow. If I'm in a windy city like Buffalo, I'm taking Josh Allen just because of the elements. He can handle all the elements he can run.

His arm strength takes care of all that. It doesn't matter. If I'm in a dome or something like that, I'd probably take Joe Burrow. But it's close. Josh Allen has just exceeded all expectations for me. Coming out of Wyoming, he wasn't the most accurate quarterback in the world. I was really concerned about his accuracy. I didn't realize he was this good of an athlete.

He could run people over. He could run the direct runs that he can run. he puts defenses in a bind because of his ability to run. I'd say Allen 1, Burrow 2, Herbert 3, you would have Borough 2 in front of Herbert, but you like Herbert? Oh, yeah, that's no disrespect towards Herbert. I like Herbert a lot. I just think Burroughs mentality to me, his mental toughness,

his flag about him, I think, is just uncoachable. You know what I mean? You've got to have that as a quarterback. I think that just kind of, that rubs off on everybody in the locker room. You know, the confidence that he has when you walk out on game day through the tunnel, Joe Burrough or a guy and everybody knows that. I just think that just rubs off on everybody. I love that about Joe. By the way, that 2018 draft, you just mentioned, you know, the one, the big criticism of Josh Allen was his completion percentage and his inaccuracy, which people

thought was a major problem. That was the draft with Baker Mayfield at the top. Darnold was in that draft. Josh Allen was in that draft. Josh Rosen was in that draft. And then Lamar Jackson got picked at the end of that draft. You may have told me this in the past. I forget, but how did you have the quarterbacks ranked? Well, I believe that's the year we just got Alex Smith, so we weren't in the first round. We weren't in the first round market, so we didn't spend a due diligence time that you necessarily have to spend on the first round. We did our workout, and don't get me wrong. But personally, I thought Sam Darnold was the best out of that group, followed by Josh

Allen, which is athleticism, and then Baker-Mayfield was three for me, and then Rosen was kind of somewhere, you know, four, five, or six or seven, or eight or whatever it was. You know, on that 2018 season and the trade, the early trade, which you have talked to me about in the past that you just kind of were told about it after it happened, the trade for Alex Smith, why wasn't, do you think there was just pressure? Like, we lost Kirk after two franchise tags. And we, you know, Bruce made the comment about how close you guys were, were close. We had all these players on injured reserve in 2017, and that was an awful injury season for sure. But why was the plan ultimately to go trade for an Alex Smith rather than what appeared to be a pretty deep quarterback class start over? Well, I think the chance to get an established veteran like Alex, I think was a good move, actually.

I didn't really know about it until I got the phone call that we made the trade. But I did great Alex Smith, and I gave him a positive grade. and he did some great things in his career. I have a veteran guy like that, a leader like that, come in, as opposed to a rookie with a team that we had coming back off I-R. We thought our defense was going to be a lot better. We thought we could get a quarterback that was smart, managed the game. Our defense would play well and keep us in games.

And that recipe worked. We were six and three until he hurt his knee or his leg. Sorry. So I think that's the main reason. Counting on a rookie nowadays is hard. And counting on getting that rookie that you want is hard. You have to trade up to one or two, and you lose a lot of capital.

You lose players. But to get an established guy like Alex to keep your players, your core, and your draft fix, I think was the right move. One of the things that, you know, people have said about you in the past, and I've told you this before, that you're, you know, and you've even said that you think it's your, it's a talent that people don't really recognize you have is as an evaluator. And I'm just curious in that draft. That was, I remember a lot of the conversation, you know, Duran Payne. It seemed to be that's the way you guys were going. There was Derwin James in that draft.

I'm forgetting who else. Do you remember specific? I loved Roquan Smith. I remember that specifically, but he was gone. But who were the players that you really liked for the first round pick? I like Dron. Bita Vaya was in there, too. We really wanted to get another defense alignment, a big guy,

because we thought those two guys were difference makers, Bita Bea and Dera and Dron Payne. Our room was split on those two guys. I certainly like Dron Payne a little bit. there. I thought he's a little more versus Kyle. But there's a lot of guys like Vita Bay, and I think there's Merit, I think they're both great players. Vita went right before Tampa Bay, so we said,

Geron, and I'm happy as hell we got him. I think he's a good player and did some great things. But obviously, Durwin James was in the mix, and Roquan was in the mix, and it was a good draft. But we thought we really upgrade our defense line, and we need another defense alignment and really push the pocket against the good running teams like Dallas and Philadelphia.

we thought to upgrade our defense line was necessary. By the way, what was your opinion of Lamar Jackson? I don't think I've ever asked you this before. Well, I went to Louisville, so I know Lamar very well, and I know what a great athlete he is. You know, it's just a matter of, you know, we kind of went through that. How durable can these guys be?

How good of a passer can he be? What kind of offense are you going to run? And then who's your backup going to be and how you're going to work out all these things? If you're your quarterback, you've got to change your offense. It's just hard. it's easier said than done. But I think he's a phenomenal athlete. What he did at Louisville statistically and put them on the map again, winning as many games he did is phenomenal,

and he's done it with Baltimore. I probably didn't give him enough credit coming out of college as I should have, but he is a phenomenal athlete, and I probably undergrave them as far as the production he's had in the NFL. Let's talk about Washington situation. It's been made very clear by Ron Rivera in this organization. The quarterback is their top priority. How should they approach quarterback this offseason, finding a quarterback that gives them a real chance here in the next few years? Well, I'm not privy to what they think about the current status of a quarterback position. Obviously, if they're looking for a quarterback and I feel like they need one, you've got to be ultra-aggressors. That's the only way to do it.

You're going to have to give up more than you think. There's no doubt about it. To get a quarterback, understanding that there aren't many in the national football league can help you win. veteran guys that are command the groom and understand offenses, understand pro football, and can make the throws, have made the throws, you're going to have to pay a hefty price, and that's going to rub some people wrong. But if it's going to make your team better and make that position better, you're going to have to do it. And I point to the Rams.

You know, they had the first pick in the draft in Jared Dawes, and they thought they could make their team better by getting Matthew Stafford. They gave up two ones and a good player, and they got better than won the Super Bowl. So I think that right now is a blueprint for a lot of the time. of teams. If you can get better at the quarterback position, you have to do it because it's the most important position in sport. I want to come back to like being ultra aggressive and what you think really is available. But on Stafford, just out of curiosity, you know, Washington was in the conversation. They offered a first and third to Detroit. And then apparently according to reports

up their offer, but he ended up, you know, going to L.A. to Sean after, you know, they hooked up in Cabo or whatever it was. And they had golf and two firsts and they got to And you had Brad Holmes who had drafted golf in L.A. You had that whole thing. If Washington had pulled off the trade for Stafford this time last year, and Stafford had been the starter for Washington, you know, let's just say they gave up their first, which ended up being Jamon Davis,

which means you wouldn't have lost a player that contributed. How good would Washington have been this year with Stafford? Well, I mean, this is all guessing and opinions, but I think they'd be significant. a lot better. I mean, this is, this is Matthew Stafford now. He's made some big-time throws and games, and I know he hasn't won a lot of playoff games and all that at Detroit, but you look at his body of work and the completions that he's made and the arm strength and the arm talent. I can remember we played Matthew Stafford when I was with the Jaguars, and I'm looking across the field and

watching him throw him pregame warm up. I'm like, we're down 14 and nothing, and we haven't taken a snap yet. This guy is ripping it. You know? It's just a different, you know, when you see him throw the football in person, it's a different. It's different than everybody else. And he's just got an unbelievable armed talent. And he's got the physical toughness. Now, he does force the ball from time and time and go the occasional pick and maybe loose with the ball in the pocket from time to time. But this guy is an award-dadi. He's a tough competitor and he can make all the growth. All right. Back to Washington being ultra-aggressive. Obviously, the names that are out there, Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, Deshawn Watson, whatever that situation is.

And I'm just curious, do you think actually, other than Watson, let's focus on Rogers and Wilson right now. Do you think Green Bay and or Seattle will trade either player? I personally don't. Unless Aaron Rogers has a gun to their head and says, I want out of here, I'm not going to show up for training camp. And yeah, then that'll happen. Same with Russell. But, you know, those two franchises, those two players have met the world to both those franchises. And for them to just let them go for a couple first-rounders, I think, is hard-pressed.

And who's their backup? You know, do they feel good about Jordan Love coming in and being a starter for the Green Bay Packers? You go from Aaron Rogers and Jordan Love, I just think it's such a drop-off that it's not even funny. And same with Russell Wilson. I don't even know who the backup is in Seattle. So now all of a sudden you have this draft. capital, but you have no quarterback. Now, if you transfer that draft

capital to try to get another quarterback, and maybe that's what they want to do. Maybe they trade Russell, Wilson, takes all the ones, and then trade for Aaron Rogers with all those picks. Who knows? But obviously, if you lose one of those quarterbacks, you better have a plan at the quarterback spot if you're one of those two teams. And it's just hard. You look at how many teams are looking for

quarterbacks, and they're struggling. And there's new coaches, nine new coaches this year, because they don't have quarterbacks, most of them. we're talking to Jay Gruden, of course. So this is a hypothetical. All right. You know, Rogers and Wilson are actually on the block. Wilson's five years younger. Rogers is off of two MVPs. Let's just for a moment say that neither one of them would resist a trade to Washington and that Washington's willing to pay the market price, if not over the market price, being super aggressive. Would you rather, have Aaron Rogers for, say, three years, you know, into age 41 or Russell Wilson for like the next five? Which of the two would you prefer? I think they're obviously both great, but Aaron Rogers, to me, is the best. You know, I know there's a lot of knock on Aaron Rogers and his playoff, lack of success and comeback and all that stuff,

but what have you, but I know that Aaron Rogers is the most talented quarterback that I've seen play in my years of coaching his arm talent, his ability to get the ball out accurately, deep, short, his ability to move in the pocket, off-schedule plays, he's phenomenal. What he does at the line of scrimmish pre-snap, post-nap, is something that will make your team an instant contender, instant contender. And Russell, his ad-lib plays as well as something,

obviously, is something fun to watch, but I just think overall the quarterback position, doing everything you want a quarterback to do. Aaron can do everything as good as anybody in the league, every part of the game. Washington gave up, let's just say, three firsts and Duran Payne, or three first and Chase Young, whatever, and got Aaron Rogers. Would they be a Super Bowl contender next year?

Yeah, for sure. That'd be, yes, no doubt. Let's assume for a moment Watson's situation is cleared up. I know it's a mess, but let's just say the civil lawsuits are done. There's no criminal charges. You know, he's rehabilitated, he's done a mea culp, whatever. if you're Washington with all their issues related to, you know, the culture, et cetera, would you pursue Watson? Oh, yes.

Yes, I think Sean Watson, you know, obviously I don't know what's going on with the off-field stuff, what he did, what he didn't do, what the league's going to do to him. I have no idea. Right. But if it's all cleared up and he's good to go, yes, Sean Watson is one of the young talented quarterbacks. He put in the same categories. He's Josh Allen and these other guys, you know what I mean? His ability to run, his ability to throw the ball. He's a lot more accurate than I thought as well coming out of college.

I mean, he can make all the throws, and obviously he's a good leader and did some great things for the Texans. But, yeah, for sure. If he's available and rehabilit, I don't know if he needed a rehab. I don't know if he's guilty. Well, yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, but there's 22 civil lawsuits, yeah. But as far as playing quarterback, I'd go after Deshawn Watson in a minute if it's playing quarterback. What do you make of Kyler Murray's situation right now?

Have you been following it at all? Yeah, I don't understand what's going on. You know, I know he has another year left, right, and I guess he got rid of all of social media with Arizona Cardinals and all that stuff. I don't have any idea. I know that he's a great baseball player. He has that in his back pocket. Maybe it's a ploy to get a better contract. I have no idea.

But I know Arizona is going to do everything they can to keep him as well. He's an ultra-talented kid. He's done a lot of great things for as young as he is, armed talent that he has, the ability to move around. I think they'll do what they can to keep them. But, you know, this is a business at the end of the day, and some quarter of the day. make it harder to keep than others. Do you think he's an elite kind of guy or not as a quarterback? I think talent-wise skill set for sure.

You know, I think, you know, I remember him at Oklahoma and the things that he makes, and even in Arizona are phenomenal. You know, I think sometimes, you know, his size, you know, being as small as he is, gets him into trouble a little bit where he can't see down the field and he takes some facts that he probably shouldn't take. But I still think that being as young as he is, he is and as talented as he is with the arm'sout that he has. I think he has the ability to become elite, but right now he's still going to progress. Young football player, ultra-talented. I think

the, I think he could still get a lot better. I think there's a lot better Tyler Murray left out there, of my point. All right, one name I haven't mentioned, actually a few names I haven't mentioned, but one name specifically I want to get your opinion on, and that is Jimmy Garoppolo, because I think most of us probably feel he will be. traded in this offseason. So we'll get Jay Gruden's thoughts on Jimmy Garoppolo right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Or MyBooky.com. It is a trustworthy place. If you gamble at MyBooky, you'll get paid if you win. But more importantly, they're giving out about as much free money to gamble with as any site onshore or off.

go to mybooky.ag or mybooky.com. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. And they'll double your first deposit all the way up to a thousand bucks. Kevin D.C. in the section where you write your promo code or they ask for your promo code when you're signing up and you will get a dollar for dollar match all the way up to $1,000. Very few sites, if any, are giving away up to $1,000 of free money to gamble with. Again, you can trust them. Solid point spread, solid money lines, solid pricing. MyBooky.ag or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. All right, let's assume Derek Carr is not available.

Kirk Cousins isn't available, and he probably isn't now. It's Garoppolo that seems to be the guy that really legitimately might be available, because I agree with you on Rogers and Wilson. and I don't think they're going to be available. What are your thoughts on Jimmy Garoppel and Washington trading for Jimmy Garoppolo? That's probably the toughest guy, I think, because that's a guy that if you give up too much,

you'll be shaking your head when you get him. Oh, my God, what does we do? But I still think he's an upgrade at the position. You know, that's something that the talent evaluators can have to agree on. And I think he's one of those guys that the building will be split on. No, we're not going to give up this to get them. Yes, we need to give up this to get them,

and there'll be an argument, and somebody's got to make that decision. I think Jimmy's a pretty good player, but to sell the farm for Jimmy is a tough till to swallow. But if you feel like he can give you that upgrade and that boost, then you have to give up something. Like I said, you're going to have to overpay to get one of these guys that have won a lot of games. And Jimmy's been to the Super Bowl. He's won playoff games. He's made some tough throws in key situations.

He's got the experience, and he's still a young player. So there's still some upside with Jimmy. As you're talking, I'm thinking about something. It's clear that Kyle Shanahan likes Jimmy Garapolo. Why is it such a lock that they're going to trade them? I understand they traded for Tray Lance last year, but if there are any questions about Tray Lance after spending a year with him, Jimmy Garoppolo is still under contract one more year?

Why do we all assume that they're going to trade Jimmy Garapolo? Why wouldn't the 49ers keep them for one more year? They were within a whisker once again of going back to the Super Bowl. Well, I think because of Trey Lance, I think it all depends on if Kyle thinks that Trey Lance gives them as good a chance to win with him other than with Jimmy. If you can get a couple first rounders and get maximum a return for Jimmy Garplow, now is the time to do it, let Trey Lance play. You know what I mean? Because he can run and he can throw the ball a little bit. I don't know if he's obviously a seasoned as Jimmy as far as a drop-back passing game, but there's some things that Trey can do that I know Jimmy can't do.

There's some things Jimmy can do that Trey can't do yet. So I think it's all up to what Kyle thinks as far as can we win as many games be as effective with Trey Lance, hand on the ball to Dibos Samuel and making those throws as opposed to Jimmy Grapolo and adding three, two or three first rounders. So that's up to Kyle, but I think. You don't think Garoppolo is going to bring back multiple first rounders, do you? Who knows nowadays? I mean, there's some desperate teams out there now.

I mean, there are some desperate teams for a quarterback. So you just never know. So there's probably how many 10 to 12 teams that are desperate for a quarterback. And the draft class right now is, from what I'm hearing, is slim pickets. So you've got to find a quarterback, you know. And Jimmy Grappolo has won a lot of games in order to hit him, you know, one team might offer up one first rounder, then a first and a second, and then it just keeps going up, snowballing from there, and then teams get panicked.

They get panicked over the quarterback. That's true. Mitch Trubisky is a name that's got mentioned a lot around here. Apparently there was some interest last year. There may have even been some interest before the trade deadline. What do you think of Mitch Trubisky? I mean, it would be a free agent deal. They don't have to trade anything for him.

But what do you think about Mitch Trubisky? Well, I think if you get Mitch Trubisps, it's a free agent deal, obviously, and you've got to come in and I'm not too strong. It's better than what they have. You know, they're both quarterbacks that are trying to establish themselves. They both have some issues throwing the football accurately and deep down the field. Mitch had an opportunity. Didn't fare too well, but he's a young football player, some athleticism, very similar to the guy they have.

So I think that would be a competitive situation, not so much you're the starter situation. Really? With Taylor Heineke? Yeah, I actually believe that. Yeah, I think Heineke did decent things now for a guy I haven't played a whole lot. he's a young player and did some good things off schedule and made some pretty big time throws. Obviously, you want to get better, but Mr. Chubisky hasn't really proven in the course of his career that he's a significant upgrade, in my opinion. You let him come in and

compete and see how it goes. And Mitch might win the job, but who knows? Hinekees might get a light and get better at his year as a starter. Have you looked at any of the incoming rookie class, the incoming draft class quarterbacks-wise? Will this pick it? Okay. Not enough to make a comment on any of them, no. Okay, no worries. I want to switch subjects real quickly to the announcement here that was made two and a half weeks ago. You were the head coach here for five and a half years. I mean, you were the Washington Redskins head coach for five and a half years. It was a big part of your professional life being here in Washington as the Redskins head football coach. Two and a half weeks ago, when they announced the new name, the Washington Command,

with the new uniforms and the new branding, did you have a reaction? I really had no reaction one way or the other. I'm a little disappointed. Obviously, I've made it known that I felt really strongly about the name before, but obviously they had to make the decision they made and changed the name. They had to change it to something. So I guess commander is as good as any. So, you know, I don't know.

Uniforms, I haven't seen them yet. I don't really care. When you were there, were there conversations that you were ever a part of that may have included like a plan B if the name was ever lost? Like was there any discussion at any point between Dan and Bruce? You know, maybe you were involved in some of those conversations about, you know, if this day were to ever come, here's what we would do. Well, I think when I was there, they were pretty out of them. Obviously, the fights that we had as far as keeping the name, we were keeping the name. That's when I was there, obviously.

And then obviously things, events took place around the world that I think forced them to make the change, which, you know, for a lot of people, for the better. So, you know, you can argue one way or the other, but, you know, when I was there, they weren't changing the name under any circumstance. So of all of the new coaching hires, which are the ones that you were most impressed with and maybe the guys that have a chance to do something right away with the teams that they're inheriting? Well, I think obviously I'm biased. I think O'Connell does a good job at Minnesota. I think he's a good fit for his offense going with Kirk Cousins in Minnesota. I think he'll utilize Justin Jefferson, Dalvin Cook, extremely well.

So I think that's a good fit in Minnesota. I think Nate Hackett's a good hire. I've known Nate for a long time out in Denver. He'll do some good things out there. Other than that, I think new head coaching hires, man, it's tough. You know, it's tough. These owners go through the process. A lot of these owners really, I don't know, it's a copycat league.

Everybody wants to get younger. They want to get the new young guys, young guy, young guy. There's some good veteran coaches out there, too, that deserve an opportunity. But, you know, we'll see when it's all sudden done, and how somebody's young guys fare, it'll be interesting. You know, I love you, Smith, I think, is an interesting hire out in Houston. So we'll see. Everybody knows that you had Sean McVeigh here and Kevin O'Connell here on your staff.

Did you always have a sense that they would eventually be head coaches? Well, you know, Sean's obviously very bright. There's no doubt about it. I thought that, you know, the success we had going to the play, you know, we were three and 13, I think, when I got the job, went to the playoffs in years two, and did some good things offensively at Kirk. When we had a good arson of, we had a good weapons, you know, Jordan Reed helped me into Sean and Pierre and Chris Thompson and Vernon Davis.

We were pretty darn good on offense. And I knew that that's what happens. We have a good offense owners and stuff and DMs are looking to pluck from that system. So once we were having success, I knew that Sean would be the first one to go. Because once he got in front of a room, he commands the room, he can communicate, he's very positive, he's very bright, and it's an easy hire. And same with Kevin O'Connell. You know, Kevin's been in a couple different systems.

He's Cleveland. He's with me. He played for New England. Having that experience with those different types of coaches has really helped mold a coach. So I knew he would get an opportunity as well pretty soon. So I think both of them obviously have the talent, the skill set, the mind to do it. Now it's a matter of getting the players. And Sean did a great job of getting the players.

He walked into a great situation. He already had Aaron Donald. He had the first picking a draft in Jared golf. He had time early when he had them. He had some good offensive line. Diamond, good defense guys. They added to it, getting Jalen Ramsey, getting Matthew Stafford. The players do make a big difference. The coaches that walk into a situation with a little bit better players like O'Connell is at Minnesota, I think they have a much better chance than these teams have to totally rebuild. You know, it's been an interesting conversation around here when you consider Jay all the coaches that have been here who are now head coaches around the league, whether they were with Mike initially or in the case of,

you know, Kevin O'Connell and Sean McVeigh with you as well. I know Sean started with Mike. But, you know, there's always this discussion about, you know, the Shanahan run scheme, zone run scheme and everything that comes off it. And yet, you know, two coaches right now who employ kind of that Shanahan style run scheme and everything that comes off it also coached for you. and you had some success as an offensive coach. I'm just curious, like, how much of O'Connell and Sean,

and in their head coaching styles offensively anyway, was pulled from, you know, the Shanahan scheme versus what you did, you know, maybe speak to just kind of the differences between the two if there are really any significant differences, if that makes sense. I think when we were very successful, we were probably a little bit better throwing the football as far as utilizing our backs and our tight ends and all that stuff. However, very similar. Kyle comes from, he coached with my brother for a year in Tampa, and obviously I have a lot of the

things that he's learned from his dad, Mike Sanahan, and same with Sean. He worked for Mr. Coach Sanahan and my brother and myself. We all kind of intermingle. He can watch the game and I can see the concept. I know exactly what concepts are running. Very similar. Inside zone, outside zone. It's really not that hard.

It's not that. It's not as complicated as you would think when you watch the runs that the Rams run. They just run them the same one very effectively. And the Rams will do it in unique formation. Now they're utilizing Debo-Samuel in some of these runs. But we did the same thing with some of our backs. And we used with just in Alton Jacksonville. You know, none of them is really too new or groundbreaking.

They just do it very effectively, and they have a good offensive line, running behind Trent Williams, and Andrew Whitworth. You know, that helps a lot as well. God, how about the year Trump Williams had? Would have been nice to get more for Trent, but I know that that was kind of a complicated situation, right? It would be nice to not get in there for Trent just to keep Trent. Yeah, well, I... When you have a great player, when you have a dominant player like Trent Williams is the best, maybe to ever play the game at that position, you try to keep them. That's just my thought, on the matter.

You really put him in that class, one of the greatest left tackle of all time. You tell me another one, it's better. You know, athletically, strength, smart, tenacity. I don't know what else. He checks every box you want as a left tackle. He's the best that I've seen. He's the best player that I've ever coached as far as at his position, and it's not even close.

Yeah, I think you told me once he is by far in a way the most athletic offensive linemen you've ever seen. And he's the strongest. I mean, people don't know how strong he is. He doesn't have to lift weights. He'll come in and be the strongest guy in the building. And he can run. He could probably start a tight end force and have 800 yards receiving.

He's a freak. He can play full pack if you want to be. He's in a motion in some of these plays that, you know, Kyle put in for him. I mean, when you have a guy like that, it makes your offense work a lot. You can run left. You can run right.

You'll get up to the second level. He's the best second level blocker he's the best point of a tech blocker. He's the best pass blocker. He's the best puller. He gets out on screens and God help the poor corners that he's blocking. He's an amazing player. So, you know, I've kept you too long and I appreciate it. So people are listening and I know what they're thinking.

So why didn't it work out? What happened? It's like we've never really gotten the truth. story of Trump lines. I think Trent had his issues with the organizations that I wasn't really privy to. I don't know with the doctors, with the ownership, whatever. Trent and I had a great relationship, I thought. But when it's all said and done, Trent did what he thought was best for himself and his family

and wanted out. And unfortunately, we didn't get the right things for the best left tackle and pro football, not even close. But, you know, I love Trent and, you know, I'm happy to see the success that he's had and the money that you're getting. All right. Thanks for doing this, as always. I always enjoy the conversation. I'll talk to you soon.

And good luck with anything else that hopefully, you know, pops up. It would be, I know that that would be your first choice. All right. Thank you. All right. That's always fun to catch up with Jay Gruden. We'll try to do that definitely before the draft with Jay as well. Have a great weekend. I'll be back on Monday.