The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jay-Z & WFT?

Episode Date: May 27, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the Wizards' loss to the 76ers in Game 2 and the popcorn incident with Russell Westbrook. Plenty on Chase Young and Montez Sweat missing all three OTA days and then Jay-Z....will he buy into the Washington Football Team or not? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Unfortunately, you know, I was leaving out, and then I just seen some popcorn on top of my hand, you know.

And to be blatantly honest, man, just getting out of hand, especially for me. Just the amount of disrespect, the amount of just fans just doing whatever the fuck they want to do. He's just out of pocket. Wow, Tommy, the entire sporting world, up in arms, just completely mortified at the popcorn incident last night at Wells Fargo Arena in Philadelphia.

Sorry for no podcast yesterday, I will make that up for you, I promise you, with a Saturday podcast. Tommy's with me today. We have the Wizards, the popcorn incident. We've got Chase Young, not at the first day of OTAs. we will get an update on whether or not he was there yesterday or today. Nobody seemed to have any information about yesterday. We've got Jay-Z and hopefully Beyonce as well as potential, potential owners in the Washington football team, and a lot more, including, by the way, the story of the night, which was Barry Trots.

Barry Trots in his New York Islanders advancing to the second round. By the way, Tommy, I was flipping back and forth between the Wizards game and that game. That crowd was incredible. opt only by the Madison Square Garden crowd for the Knicks over the Hawks. Did you tweet something about the crowd last night at Madison Square Garden? Well, I watched the end of the Knicks game. I mean, I switched over after the Wizards. And it was loud.

But, I mean, I haven't been a veteran of hearing many garden crowds, the loudest was game 5, 1970 NBA finals. when Willis Reed got hurt during the game, the Wizards are down by, I mean the Wizards, the Knicks are down by 10, 12 points. And the Knicks turn around, come back and win with Dave to Busher and Dave Stallworth. Were you at that game?

Will Chamberlain. No, I was not at that game. But the crowd was absolutely deafening. And it's on YouTube, which I posted as well. I mean, of that series, game five is the greatest game. I mean, everyone talks about game seven. I mean, the next wild end up running out, you know, going away. But game five, when Willis went down and basically they beat Wilt with a bunch of small forward,

a bunch of, you know, six, six guys. Right. They held them in check. And they came back to win. I mean, that's the loudest crowd I've ever heard for an NBA game at the Garden. I haven't heard them all, obviously. You know, I've been to a playoff game in the garden. I saw them play the Raptors.

I want to say it was 2000, 2001. Maybe it was whatever. It was right around that time frame. And a friend of mine who was working up in New York, who was a Maryland guy, said, no, no, no, no, you've got to go to a playoff game at the garden, which I did. And it was phenomenal. I mean, just electric. I mean, the New York fan base has always been that for big games.

Always. Yeah, listen, I'll venture. to guess, and I feel confident about this, that the loudest crowds for any event in the history of the garden were Bruno San Martino wrestling shows. I'll venture, I'll go on a limb and say that those, I know those were the loudest crowds. Bruno San Martino sold out the garden like 60 times. Wow. It's unbelievable. Wow. The, I mean, the Madison Square Garden crowd last night, and I know it's been a while for us as sports fans, but it was loud by any measure.

Yes, it was. It felt great to listen to it. It felt great. And the Islanders crowd at Nassau Coliseum was the same thing. You know, I sort of watched the final minute in the countdown as Barry Trots, by the way, won his fourth playoff series since exiting Washington. I mean, seriously. That dummy.

Oh, but Tommy, aren't you rooting for the Islanders? I'm rooting for them so hard. I think it would be great if Barry Trots won the cup with the Islanders this year. It would be just desserts. He, I mean, by the way, he's winning, like, he was the four seed in their division. Pittsburgh was the one seed. Yes. And once again, you know, like Vegas was like a massive favorite in their series.

They're going to a seventh in deciding game. The hockey playoffs are just completely random in terms of the results. That crowd was nuts. The crowd at the garden was nuts. And at least one fan in Philadelphia was a little bit out of control. We'll get to that in a moment. Somebody called the show this morning. And they started off by, it was one of those compliment sandwiches, you know, where, you know, there was a little bit of criticism.

And then there was a real big compliment. And then there was a little bit more criticism. And it started off with something like, you know, Kevin, this NBA thing. with you. Let me just say, though, you've been one of my favorites, and I love listening to you, and you do an incredible job of, like, making anything that you have passion for, sounding like things we should have passion for. And then he ended it with, but I just don't know how you spend any time watching The Wizards or the NBA. That was a phenomenal call. I appreciate it. The Compliment Sandwich, Tommy. Do you know what John Wooden's book, and I've read a

bunch of books on Wooden. But one of the first, you know, his whole pyramid of success thing, one of the things that John Wooden apparently really believed in was before you could constructively criticize a player, these are college players, you had to offer up four compliments. And if you didn't offer up four compliments for that one constructive criticism, the constructive criticism in many cases wouldn't be heard. If you've noticed over the years, it's the strategy. It's the I've employed with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. You know, let me get out my sheet of paper. So I keep track of the compliments that you give me. Well, you know, whenever I'm... That little notepad. Whenever I'm sticky. The sticky. It may not.

It may not be four to one, but I try to make it a one-to-one thing. Just so you'll at least be a little bit open-minded. Because God knows you love getting stroked. You love when people... People say nice things about you. You know, it's funny. I know so many coaches, so many coaches I've covered, managers who wouldn't is their Bible. Oh, yeah.

I mean, just they're, I mean, they swear by his philosophies. You know, it's so funny because, you know, the whole wooden pyramid of success, you know, which has, you know, poise and confidence. I got to pull it up to remember all of them. but, you know, friendship and loyalty and all these things. Enthusiasm is a big one. Let me let me find the wooden pyramid of success. Yeah, yeah, yeah, here are some of them.

I mean, it's just, it's, you know, friendship and loyalty, cooperation, enthusiasm, industriousness, self-control, alertness, initiative, intentness, team spirit, skill, condition, poised, confidence, and at the top is competitive greatness. Anyway, the irony about wooden is that, you know, he co-executive. in an era where the competitive landscape was so limited. It was a very regional sport back then. The worst basketball other than UCLA was played in his region. And the bottom line is they cheated consistently over and over again.

You know, they had what's his face paying. A big money backer. Yeah. Yeah. But he obviously was an incredible coach as well. Yeah, because his players swear by him. Oh, my God, swear by him. Because I think he was a very kind man.

But, you know, it's easy to be kind when your talent level far exceeds the competition. And you only have to win two games against mediocre competition to get to the final four every year. Whatever. I know. But one last thing on that. Yes. And I've said this before. I don't penalize somebody for winning with talent.

Agreed. Look, in college. I've seen a lot of guys screw up talented. teams. Well, Tommy, in college sports, half your job is to recruit. I mean, if you don't have the talent, that's on you. You know, you'll get fired as much for losing without talent as you will with it, but you've got to have it. Anyway, he always had it, obviously. Anyway, the game last night before we get to the popcorn incident, did you watch it? Or am I talking about myself here? Okay. No, I watched it. I watched it. You know, and it was, you know, I'm watching it, and I'm saying,

and you know, this is why I don't watch these games. Why were you saying that? Well, because, I mean, the Wizards, they were terrible. They were pathetic. I mean, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, I mean, I just can't. I mean, you know, no one in the end, Drew couldn't point at this out. Nobody in the NBA seems to double team anymore or know how to double team. They just don't seem to know how to do it, how to switch off, you know, like they seem

clueless about it. And the Wizards in particular. Well, teams double players all the time. They don't double the post because there aren't post centers as much like Joelle M. Bede can be a post center. Right. So is that what he was talking about? Yes. Okay. That makes sense. Steph Curry gets doubled all the time. No, I meant in the post. Okay. A big man like, yeah. Well, one of the things I said on the radio show yesterday and maybe I said on the podcast, I'm like, look, one of the things I would like to see. is I would like to see at least an effort to change up things defensively. They're a horrible defensive team.

I mean, horrible. And there are plenty of them in the NBA. But they're particularly bad. I mean, they don't have an individual really good defender. Their rotations are bad. Their team, you know, their two best players, their two star players, lose concentration as much as anybody else does defensively. And that sucks because Beale's.

such a great player offensively. He's an elite score, and we've seen that even in these first two games, but he loses people. He can't stay in front of people consistently on the defensive end. We're watching a really good defensive team, specifically a very good defender in Ben Simmons. I mean, he's really exceptional as a defensive player. But I think actually Scott Brooks tried a bunch of things. They doubled the post a couple times, and then they wouldn't. They showed a little bit of zone.

Like he tried to do some things last night, you know. But he's got three, he's got three big men. That's 18 fouls. Right. And, you know? And I mean, how many times did, I mean, I mean, it's just, I mean, you got, you got to play tough against these guys. You got to make their lives difficult. Yeah.

So the 18 fouls was a common theme before this series started. They got three centers. They play equals. I know. And against Embed, they got 18 fouls. And my point that I've made, and I think it's now been sort of amplified. To me, it's so obvious now if it wasn't obvious to anybody else. Don't use those 18 fouls on Embed.

Use them on Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons is the one bullying his way to the rim and scoring at will at the rim, and it's an absolute horrific free-throw shooter. Last night, Ben Simmons did not go to the free-throw. throw line once, but had 11 made shots at the rim. 11 out of 15. Use your center to come and help and hack this shit out of Ben Simmons and put him at the free throw line.

That's where I would use the 18 fouls. I've never seen, well, I say this, I don't want to get caught up in the hyperbole because there are plenty of terrible defensive NBA teams. And look, the NBA is really hard these days. It's really hard to guard people. There are just so many, this skill level is so ridiculously high. and the shooting level and the way the floor has changed over the years with the way they back up and shoot, it's really hard to stop teams.

But the Wizards are particularly easy to just get to the rim at will, to get into the paint at will. And then what happens is, you know, as they're scrambling to catch up, then somebody's kicking it out to somebody to shoot a three. But Ben Simmons should be, if I'm coaching the Wizards, Ben Simmons, he was 11 for 15. he would have been four for six with basically with nine times two, 18 free throw attempts in which he would have been six for 18 from the line. He was 0 for six Sunday. He shoots 59 or 60 percent from the season,

but he's a train wreck at the free throw line. Meantime in Beat is an 86% free throw shooter. So you can't foul him. By the way, Tommy, he's, you know, I think for a lot of people, people, they just start watching this time of year, and maybe a lot of people aren't even watching. And so they've heard about some of these players. M. Bede's really good. He is really talented and gifted. He's a dominant player. I agree. Who does he remind you of? It's hard to say. I'd have to think about that. There's a lot of Elijah one in his game. A lot of Elijah one. Now, Mbid can stretch the floor,

as all centers now pretty much have to do. But his post game, there's a lot of Elijah one. He's not as great defensively as Elijah one was. Elijah one's to me, I know Russell is okay, but Elijah one is in the conversation of the greatest defensive centers of all time. But Embed's got a lot of, you know, he's got a lot of shot making ability close to the basket like the dream had. He's just got a lot of ways to score there. I like him a lot. On the game real quickly, so to me, everything about this series was pace. If the Wizards can play at their pace, their preferred pace, which is very up-tempo, trying to score on a fast break or score on a secondary fast break. You know, essentially getting a shot up against a scrambling defense in the first five to 10 seconds of the shot clock,

where they can score 120 or 125 or 130 points, they'll have a chance to win a game or two. You know, a game. I had it at 4-1 before the series started. And the truth of the matter in these first two games is they've actually played at a pace for much of the game. Sunday I would estimate 65% of the game they played at their pace. And they had the halftime lead. Last night, the first half, the emphasis was take it out of the net, take it off the rim, let's in Russ or Ish Smith, just run it at them.

And then we'll try to get stuff quickly. Like that was an emphasis and that's smart because they are one horrible half-court offensive team. And they had the pace where they wanted it in the first half. The problem was they missed every open three they looked at. they were one for 10 from behind the arc, and they missed six free throws in the first half. So if they make two more threes and three more free throws, that's nine more points, you know, and one of those threes probably, you know, led to an easy Philadelphia bucket. It's probably like 68, 66 at halftime instead of 71.57.

They just didn't knock down the shots. Then the game slowed down in the second half, and that's where they're an absolute embarrassment. As many NBA teams are, they don't have anything. than primarily 80% of its ISO or two-man, you know, pick and roll. And Beal is phenomenal, even against a set defense. He's able to generate some offense on his own. But you can't, you know, you can't watch Philadelphia in a half court. 80% of the time for them, four people minimum touch the ball.

Washington, 80% of the time for them, one or two people touch the ball. And it's just not going to work against almost anybody, let alone a good defense. defensive team like Philadelphia. I predicted before the series that Washington would have two games in this series where they didn't score 100 points. They had gone 27 straight games of scoring 100 or more, and last night was the first. I bet there's one more coming.

And the reason is, is the playoffs tend to turn slower and half-courtish, and I know how much they're going to struggle in their half-court offense. You know, all my Windsor friends... And speaking of three-pointers... I mean, Bertan should, it was just, I mean, horrific. They can't win without him hitting his three-point shots. And he didn't even score a point.

He was 0 for four. He was victimized defensively. They attack him defensively. He fouled out without scoring last night. I know. That's amazing. They can't win. Even if everything else is going well, they can't be Philly

unless that guy's hit. this trees. So like the one or two friends that I have that care about the wizards, they're constantly saying, I mean, he's got to try new players. He can't play Bretons. What's he doing? Well, you have to play Bertons in this series, and you have to hope that you can play your uptempo pace for 60, 70% of the time, and he can get those open looks in transition and knock him down, which he did in game one. You know, he's knocking down some big shots in game one. And, you know, What was he from the three-point lining game one? I'm looking it up real quickly.

Four for eight. He was four-for-eight. He was five for ten overall. And to me, I think he should have ten to twelve minimum three-point attempts in a game. But he's not going to get those if the game slows down. And then he's a true liability on defense. But to your point, they've had some really good games when he hasn't played or he hasn't played well. But is he overpaid?

Of course. is the game, does the game today favor a guy like Bertons? Yes, it does. A guy like Bertons is incredibly effective in today's games, especially when you've got two or three other guys that can make a defense, you know, sort of hedge and help and collapse. But, you know, he was worthless last night. You know, several of people.

Westbrook was terrible last night before he got hurt. You know, Beale wasn't guarding anybody, but Beale offensively is just, incredible. Gafford was getting beaten up a little bit at the rim by Dwight Howard, of all people. Yeah, yeah. And I would just say, like, Hachamur and anybody else, when you've got an open three in transition or in that secondary break situation, just shoot it. My God, you might not get a better look. Or the team might not get a better look. Or we're going to sit there at the end of a shot clock and watch Russ, you know, dribble the air out of the ball and fire up a three-pointer. I have one more quick comment from the game last night. This is just a pet person. peeve of mine in general. You know, teams love at the end of quarters, Tommy, the two-for-one opportunity.

You know, if you can get the shot up, you know, with 30 seconds left in the quarter, or 35 seconds left in the quarter, it means you're going to have another possession, you know, after the other team scores or misses on the other end. I'm all for like two-for-one thought. But if the first of the two is like a terrible shot attempt that misses, that defeats the purpose. I mean, Russell Westbrook in this two-for-one all year long, I've watched him just jack up threes, you know, contested threes like he did last night at the end of the first quarter. That's stupid. Stop doing that. Who cares if you don't end up with that second possession?

Let's make sure we score on the, I have a chance to score in the first because usually that second possession is a limited time possession anyway, like you're scrambling anyway. because the other team, you know, made a bucket with seven seconds left. Okay, we got her second possession. But, you know, you're rushing to get something off. It just, it was stupid. I hate when teams do that. It's one thing if I've got Damian Lillard or Steph Curry shooting my three and a two-for-one situation,

or even Brad. I'm fine with Brad, you know, coming down and jacking one up with 34 seconds, you know, left in the quarter. I don't want Russell Westbrook coming down and jacking up a contested three and a two-for-one. I don't want to see. that anymore. That's just not good basketball. Anyway, do you think anybody really cares about this team? No, I don't. Why do I? I absolutely don't. I mean, they're still trying to sell tickets. They were pushing them on the broadcast for the home playoff game. What is it 50%? So it's going to be 10,000 as a capacity? They've got to get 10,000 in their Saturday night. But maybe not. Maybe not.

If it was one, they would. Yeah, if it was one, one maybe. So how just mortified and outraged were you at Russell Westbrook's limping off the court under the tunnel and having popcorn thrown on him? Because the sporting world was really, really up in arms. It's been the lead story in ESPN all morning long. I know. I know. I mean, listen, I watched the post-game show for the Wizards.

the whole first segment was about the popcorn. It was? The whole first segment. They didn't even talk about the game until they came back from a commercial. So the whole thing was about the popcorn. And here's what we don't know. And this has a big deal or not. Was it buttered or not?

That is such a big deal. I mean, if it was buttered and it falls on you, it's all kind of gooey and stuff. It's gooey and sticky. that's gross. Yeah. But if it's dry or even just salted, I mean, I don't want to end up with salt and picking salt things off of me, but it'd be better if it were just dry. Good point.

That should have been asked in the post-game show or Westbrook. Absolutely. I mean, so if it wasn't buttered, it's, look, it's, I mean, you would have thought they poured, they poured battery acid on them. Oh, my God. That's what I, I thought we were going to disagree on this. Let me just say for the record. okay, because several people tweeted me this morning.

I am not condoning. I'm not excusing the behavior. Yes, I agree. The guy should be banned. That guy needs to get jacked and banned. Yeah, Jack banned the whole thing. But there are degrees of, you know, fan violence. You know, Monica Sellis was the recipient of the ultimate in fan violence.

A true attempt to kill her with a knife. She was stabbed on the court. You know, the malice at the palace. lot of these things over the years, real serious shit. I'm not forgiving it or excusing it. I want that guy to pay for it. And I don't want to see that happen. I mean, I don't want to see that happen at all.

But my God, the reaction all night and all morning, I did not watch the post-game show. I went immediately the next. It was just as the guy that comes on overnight on Fox Sports Radio, which we're now a Fox Sports Radio affiliate on 980 these days, this guy, Ben Mallor, who does the overnight show, as I was driving in this morning, he and whoever his partner was just said, you would have thought that they poured shrapnel on the guy with the reaction. It was popcorn. Don't do it.

Bad. The guy needs to be condemned. He needs to be banned. The whole thing. But holy smokes. And, you know, the other part of it, too, and for whatever reason, Westbrook's been the recipient of so many of these things. You know, there was that Nuggets fan that got in his face.

There was this stuff from the Philadelphia fan when they gave him the finger right in his face. Everybody's had issues in Salt Lake with racial slurs. It's been really ugly in Salt Lake over the years. But this was not, you know, this wasn't the malice to Palace. This wasn't, you know, a battery being thrown at Mrs. Boozer at Cole Fieldhouse. This was not Monica Sellis being stabbed. I agree with you. But Dean Harris, I don't know what the ESPN motivation is.

But I know the Wizards crew talking about it and making big deal about it means that they didn't have to talk about the game as much. No, I don't, whatever. I didn't, I was watching the Knicks Hawks at that point. I actually- I mean, talking about the popcorn means they didn't have to talk about how bad their team was. Exactly. And by the way, I don't know.

last night watching the game. What? I mean, you know, in the post game, in the post game show, I tweeted this, Wizards play-by-play announcer, not Steve Bucantz, suggested they might use this popcorn incident as motivation. You couldn't even get his name? Come on. It's Justin Coucher. That guy is referred to as not Steve Buckhantz to me. Oh, my God. You're rude. You know, it's funny. I played golf with Buck the other day, and Ernie Bauer and Joe Yashore. We had a great time. Oh, God, here's your tweet. Wizards play-by-play announcer, not Steve Buckhand, suggested they might use this popcorn. We're talking about popcorn. I'm with you. Like, all I wanted was, okay, the popcorn, let's get this guy, you know, arrested or banned or whatever. Let's please try to win the game on Saturday night.

Let's find out how Westbrook's ankle is. Yes. And let's find out what the coach has to say about his prize three-point shooter. Davos-Preton? Yeah, what a pathetic performance that was, and what's he going to do about it? All right. I'm not going to rip the people. This was a story, so the fact that they were addressing it isn't a big deal.

If that's all they addressed, I think that's over the top. and it contributes to sort of what I would believe to be in over the top reaction to this like you do. I will just tell you that in playing golf with Buck the other day, I said to Buck, I go, look, he's not you, they're not you and Phil. We all miss you and Phil dearly. It was a dumb thing just like firing, or just like letting Barry Frotts walk. Don't go where you're going.

I did, and I did with Buck too. I told him. I told him this before. Justin Coucher knows how to call a game. Oh, bullshit. No, he does. the most unprofessional horse shit broadcast I've ever heard in an NBA game. No, you've heard so much worse.

Are you kidding me? That's an embarrassment. It's not Buck and Phil, please. Don't put, don't do what you're about to do. Okay, because I would go down there and push them out of the booth to get Buck and Phil back in. Justin Coucher. This has nothing to do with Buck and Phil. Even Buck said, no, he can call a game. He, he can. You're making it out...

Oh, my God. I mean, it's... I'm not in love with Gooden. I'm not in love with Gooden, although I do like Drew Gooden. Because I've had him on the show, and I think he's a good guest, or it did when he was playing with them. And the bottom line is it's not a great listen because you don't have the listen that you had, the chemistry, the fun, the whole thing. It's not a great listen. No, it's not a great listen because it's not very good.

Well, that's your opinion. I don't think it's great. but I think the over the top that it's terrible is over the top because Coochurch can call a game. Coochard can call a game, Tommy. He can. He knows how to call a basketball game. Now, I think sometimes he doesn't let it breathe enough. I think sometimes he gets a little bit too much into the analysis,

although I think that's probably what I've done before when I've called games, especially if I feel like I know. but I've heard a lot worse than Justin Coocher calling an NBA game or calling a basketball game. Not me. It's one of the worst I've heard. I have. I'd say it's an embarrassment, but when it comes to this organization,

when it comes to the Wizards, that's a long list. What's a bigger embarrassment? Letting Barry Trots walk or getting rid of Buck and Phil. They're both equal. They're pretty close. They're pretty close. I mean, because the other one, the second one, getting rid of Buck and Phil, that's in your face every time you have to watch a basketball game. That's true.

All right. We have some OTAs, Chase Young, J.Z, Beyonce, and a lot of other things to talk about. We'll get to all of those things right after this word from one of our sponsors. So a little inside the podcast today, we had to break between the first segment and this segment because I had to record an interview for the radio show to March. tomorrow with a Washington football team player, tune in at 7 a.m. tomorrow morning on 980 to find out who that is. And Tommy and I just got into a little bit of an argument about what we should be talking about next because we started to have a conversation. And I just said to him, well, why aren't we just doing this as part of the segment? And Tommy is like, oh, I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to do this.

And I'm like, well, why not? Well, there's one reason you didn't want to do it. And I won't go down that path. What is it? It's the report that you had a while back that you didn't want to touch on again for some reason. Well, only because it's history. It's old news. Well, it's old news, but it's old news that would be relevant to the current situation. Okay, let's do it.

Okay. Wow. So we'll make this brief because it deals with the basketball team, the pro team, and many of you don't care. And we're going to get to Chase Young, by the way, who missed all three OTA days. So did Montez sweat here in a moment. And Jay-Z and Beyonce. But I said to Tommy, I said, you know, I kind of feel like over the years,

whether it was on the radio show that we did together or individually on the various things that we've been involved in or together on this podcast, that, you know, I don't know, that we're certainly among those that haven't given Ted. Leonsis a free pass for a lot of big mistakes. He's got that Stanley Cup, but there's been a lot of big mistakes made over the years. I think he's been a huge beneficiary as an owner in this town because Dan Snyder owns the football team. And Dan Snyder's not just the worst owner in this town.

He's one of the worst owners in any town. All of them put together, he's one of the bottom five, bottom six owners in all of sports. So he's sort of had this free pass. But I've said that you and I have sort of, you know, we've gone after him a little bit over the years. Like we've been critical of a lot of the moves, you know, professional moves. You know, the sitting on his team's bench. He's the only owner in sports that sits on his team's bench.

There are owners that come down to sidelines like Jerry Jones and what's his face in Atlanta. Arthur Blank. You know, Steve Ballmer definitely sits court-side. but it's underneath one of those baskets. Mark Cuban is two to three rows behind his bench. But Ted actually sits on his team's bench. He blogs about the team. He criticizes the team.

And I've always said, my God, can you imagine if Snyder were as available and were as opinionated as Ted is? I mean, he's already vilified for being a horrible owner, which he is. But my God, I mean, it would be so much worse. And, you know, the truth is, is Ted's framers. other than the hockey team. Well, I guess the mystics have won a couple of titles. But I just said to Tommy, I go, you know, you and I think more than, you know, most people in this town have gotten after him. And you said, yes. And then you mentioned a story that you had, which I will now allow you to tell because for some reason you didn't want to tell this story, but now you're willing to tell it. So go ahead. Okay. Well, before they hired when they got, we got rid of Bernie, before they hired Tommy Shepard, who wound up. being the only guy left in the room and that may have been the right move as it turns out they wanted

to hire a toronto gm what's his name messiah jiri okay uh and it got so far that the league threatened to file tampering charges against the wizards and against the wizards and it was a big deal behind the scenes and they were scared to death that they were going to get fined significantly and panelized and embarrassed in their business. So they backed off, and then the league backed off and didn't do anything about it. You wouldn't know that happened if you dealt with all the other media in this town.

I was the only one that reported it. Everybody knows it happened, and it just shows that they treat Ted with kid gloves in this town. And it's easy to, because he is, in some ways a likable guy. And like you pointed out, there's a lot of things about his business that are very good. Yes.

You know, but listen, he's the only owner to actually punch a fan. You know? Yeah. I mean, let's not forget that. So, I mean, so I did, you know, you're right. He does, he does get a pass. And it, it speaks to,

the image you present. And Ted presents an image of, which is such a phony image, this image of transparency. You know, this is the code word. This is the code word in sports now, transparency.

The Washington football team adopted it. The men of Jason Wright came on board. It's his favorite word, transparency. Well, that's one of Ted's favorite words, too. Yeah. He should choke on that word transparency. based on the way they've done business. You mean he didn't come out and tell us that they were threatening tampering charges for going after Ujiri?

No. Because that would have been transparent if he had told us that they were, you know, I remember, first of all, I don't know why you were so hesitant to tell that. You had this story. Well, because it's history. Secondly, I do, I think that a lot of people in the media understand that, you know, the teams that he owns aren't, the best run teams and haven't had the kind of success that you would think they've had if you just sort of, you know, listen to him or followed him on social media or Red Ted's take or whatever. I mean, look, I've said this a million times. Like, he understands the customer

experience really well. I think it's really, I think that going to a hockey game in this town in terms of the overall vibe and the fan experience is incredible. without that Stanley Cup, man, I think there'd be a lot more people. He got a free pass on that, but then made the mistake. Clearly now it's a mistake. I'm not trying to act like I knew it was a mistake. I don't know enough about hockey. I believed all the people that told me Reards, you know,

was the X's and O's genius behind the Stanley Cup. Clearly that's... I was not one of them. I know. You knew more than I. And clearly that you were right because Barry Trotz keeps winning playoff series, and this team hasn't won one since he left. Not one.

Not one. Not one. And, you know, part of me thinks that the Washington basketball franchise, the Wizards, in many ways, have been as disappointing and as dysfunctional as the Washington football team. You know what? Actually, that's not true. It hasn't been the high level of disrespect to their fan base that the football teams had. The football team has treated its fan base like it was, like they were children.

Like they would take anything that we were the children, they were the parents, and we would do whatever we were told for many years. And they treated people that way. And they were so arrogant. I don't think Ted's level or any of his organization's levels of arrogance rise to the level of the Snyder team's arrogance over the years. Although keeping that loser GM for 10 years on the job ranks among the one or the most arrogant. Why was that arrogant versus truly versus loyalty? Oh, no, no.

That was arrogant. Why? That was a level of arrogance thinking that, you know, I don't care. Look, when you bought that team, they have been going through 30 years of shameful dysfunctional embarrassment. You were on the heels of one of the most embarrassing situations. Your players nearly having a gunfight in the locker room in an atmosphere perpetrated by the general manager himself with his attitude towards these players. Right. Okay.

And you kept that guy. That was the ultimate insult to your fan base. Well, that guy was more successful than anybody that came before him during those things. 30 years. That's part of the reason. But that was the ultimate insult. And I don't know about that. I don't know about the arrogance part.

I think, you know, obviously, I think there was huge loyalty. And the bottom line is, you don't know about what. Ernie, Ernie's the Gilbert, Karan, Antoine, Antoine teams and, you know, were more successful than any of the teams that had since 79. Like, that was the best run. They were in playoffs. They won a playoff series. You know, so they were in, you know, they developed.

Their one loss record. Yeah, I know. The one loss record is much worse than any other general manager who's been in that team. Right. I know wins and losses don't matter. No, they did. But they were the worst. Right.

Meantime, Ted has really been on the forefront, Tommy, of the legalized gambling wave that is taking over the country. You know, they opened up. Rothstein. They opened up this William Hill, you know, sports book at Capital One Arena. The pictures look beautiful. So while he's been really focused on getting everybody to become addicted to gambling, his teams are not performing very well. You know, I've seen the pictures. It looks beautiful. You know, the next time I'm down there, the next time I'm down there, I'll check it out. I can, I promise you, I don't need that place to place a wage. as you know. I know.

Because I can place a much less expensive wager on credit the way I've been doing it for years. But anyway, so the other part of the conversation was, you know, on Masai Ujiri, who I just said, you know, it's amazing how brilliant he was two years ago with Kauai Leonard. And now, you know, not so brilliant anymore. You know, he was the, he was the latest of the genius GMs. And it's just, to me, that's the NBA, right? That is the NBA. Whoever has one of the best five players in the league and makes a run to the NBA finals or wins a title, great ownership, great coach, great GM. And there's no league in sports that is more reliant on having one of the best players in the game on your team to win it all than the NBA.

We see it every year, every single year. I pointed this out a million times. I agree with all that. My point is, in the playoffs, I mean, let's not even talk about the NBA title. Let's talk about getting to a conference final. Yeah. In the playoffs, coaching matters more. It matters more, but it will not win you a title.

It will not win you a title without. It will not win you a title we saw last year, and Spolster got that team to the final in the bubble, unless you have a definitive top five player on your team. I agree. But getting to the final would be a nice change of pace for this organization. Well, Taran Loo got the Cavaliers to the finals and actually won the title as well. But I would not call Taran Lue a great coach.

Anyway, whatever. Yes, I agree with you that coaching matters more in the postseason. but ultimately to win it all, you've got to have greatness. Not just great, but elite great on your team to win it all. But you could argue that the Wizards have two great players. No, you can't. You can't argue that either one of those players is even a top 10 player. Really?

Really? Westbrook? No, not a top 10 player in the league. No way. First of all, Beale would be the argument. Beale would be the argument more than Westbrook at this point. But no, to me... The guy who just average a triple-double?

Yeah, he's not one of the best 10 players. There's no way if you held a draft right now for this year, for this postseason, there's no way either one of those two players would be one of the top 10 players. But that's different. That's different. What is that why? People recognize he's a flawed player. Right.

So therefore... It doesn't mean he's not a great player. I didn't say he wasn't a great player. I said he's not a top 10 player. And I think you have to, well, the track record is if you don't have a top five player, then you can't win an NBA title. It's now 17 years running where the winner, the championship winner, has had a top five player on their team. The last team to do it was Detroit in 2004.

Chauncey Billups, you could argue, was their best player, and he was not a top five player. Dirk Novitsky was when Dallas won it. Kevin Garnett was when the Celtics won it. You have to have an obvious top five player on your team to, win an NBA championship period. End of discussion. The Wizards don't even have a top 10 player on their roster. Now, I will tell you that if I were drafting for the postseason this year, I would take

Beale before Westbrook. And Beal might be in my top 15 selections, but not my top 10. Beal's not a top five player. He's not a top 10 player. He's somewhere after 10. I think he will make the third team all NBA team this year. And I think he deserves it. Oh, yeah.

I mean, he almost liked the league in scoring. Right. All right. Let's move to the Washington football team. We'll get to the Jay-Z Beyonce thing here momentarily. Big deal or not a big deal that Ben Standing just confirmed via Twitter that for this first stretch of OTAs, which, by the way, Ron Rivera has now changed the schedule. He's eliminated one of the OTA weeks.

How about that? Congratulations to the players. They worked so hard. It was such a great turnout. He appreciated the effort and work of the players so much that he's canceling one of the OTA weeks in June, and he's moving the minicamp into that week. That's mandatory June 8th or 10th. Is it a big deal that Chase Young Montez Sweat?

Charles Leno didn't attend any of these OTA sessions, in part because he and his wife just had a brand new baby. Congratulations to them. Is it a big deal that Chase Young, Montez Sweat didn't show up for any of the three OTA days? I think it is, but I always think it is if you're a team leader and you don't show up for the volunteers. I think the OTAs are absurd. That said, that once you get past the idea that you're being asked to work when, you know, you don't really have to, is your point to lead the culture change? You should be there.

Yeah, I don't, I mean, let's just assume that they could have been there. chose not to be there because for all I know, there could have been like a real legitimate reason, a family reason or something else as to why that they weren't there. So let's assume that that's not the case, that they just said, eh, not showing up. They're voluntary. They're not mandatory. I think it's a medium deal. I, if you recall Tommy in the past, because you and I were doing the show together at the time, I was really upset about Trent Williams not showing up for OTAs, in part because that first year he didn't show up, I think, was the year after he got suspended the final four games of the season, which really hurt them. You know, not having their player

for a playoff run. It was 2016. Remember, they had four games. They ended up losing the final game to the Giants. He got suspended for whatever number we defense that was at that point. And he was not available to his team in a playoff push. And that was a big disappointment. and by the way, hurt the team. And then the following year, you know, OTAs, he's not there. I thought that was a big deal because Trent Williams was not only a perceived leader on the team. He's one of the best players of the team, and he had let the team down. Whether he thought, you know, it was justified or not.

Oh, he was a captain. Yeah. And I thought. Chase Young is a captain. I thought that was wrong. With Chase Young, again, assuming there's no legitimate, you know, story behind this. and they just chose not to be there. It's not, I don't think it's the right decision.

I agree with you. It's not the right decision. There's a culture change going on. He's a perceived leader. You could argue pound for pound right now. He's the best football player on the team. I think he is. And, you know, if he wants to take over that leadership thing, you know, and you're, by the way,

none of this stuff, I understand for those of you just saying, what's, what's the big deal? None of this stuff matters to winning. like teams that have low attendance, win Super Bowls, and teams that have high attendance go three and 13. I'm sure you can find examples of all those. That's not the point. The point is he is now a perceived leader. People have looked to him.

People look in, you know, if he's setting an example for the people that are looking up to him that this isn't a big deal, I don't think that's the right thing to do. I think if he could have been there, he should have been there. All that said, if he has a legitimate personal, reason for not being there. We've already said that. That's understood. I just want to double down on that. Shooting a commercial or something like that is not a legitimate personal reason. Right. Somebody being sick in his families. Right. Somebody or him feeling or maybe for all we know they could have had

recent COVID contact. You know, could have been part of the contact trees. Who knows what it is? All of that stuff is understood that if it's legitimate, fine. But the assignment, fine. But the assignment, here to have this conversation is that they just sort of chose, eh, we're not going. I mean, we're not picking on Montez Sweat as much as we're picking on Chase Young because Chase Young has sort of spoken and wants that leadership label. Yeah. You know, and he, you know, I think, I mean, it's like one of those things. It's like, really, you can't make it to one of the days? How about you showing up for one of them to introduce yourself in person to some of your new teammates on defense. You know, the rookie, Jamie, Damon Davis. He got drafted in the first round.

He may be lining up just behind you in a lot of games next year. How about, you know, showing Jamon, hey, man, I'm a leader here. These are voluntary, but shit. We're trying to win here. If this extra work's going to help or not, bottom line is me being here, it sends a good signal, so I'm here. Hey, Jamie, how you do? William Jackson's new. Bobby McCain's new. They got a lot of new players. Hey, Ryan Fitzpatrick, man. You're the leader of the offense. I'm the leader of the defense. We're both here.

Yeah, you know, the more I talk about it, the more upset I'm getting about it. All right. Jay-Z, Beyonce, potential owners in the Washington football team. More on that right after this word from one of our sponsors. So yesterday, Tommy, Burgundy blog, who we've referenced on the podcast before, and Burgundy blog listens to the podcast, and he and I communicate. usually on private messaging every once in a while. He's obviously got some good sources and has broken some stories and has had some information over the years.

He keeps to himself a little bit is sort of mysterious. I've invited him on the podcast several times and the radio show as well and he's declined. I'm not sure why. He's claimed he was busy and that's fine. Maybe we'll get him on at some point. Anyway, he tweeted out in the late morning hours yesterday. quote, nothing imminent. These things take months and sometimes break down, but I have it on good authority that Jay-Z is actively divesting assets to position himself for purchase of stake

in Washington football team. That got a lot of attention yesterday. I followed up with one of my very good sources on a lot of the stuff that has to do with the team, not necessarily. necessarily the players on the team, but more the business side on the team. I had mentioned months back that Washington was working with Rock Nation. And what I learned was, you know, it's been, you know, probably over a year now that they've been working with Rock Nation. They've been working with another firm as well, MWW, but that Jay-Z's Rock Nation's been involved in marketing and media relations. They've been, you know, working on the name process. They've been, you know, were very instrumental in the hiring of Jason Wright, the assistance in hiring of Jason Wright.

They have very much been influential in the team not dealing with the Washington Post, but dealing more with the New York Times, Tommy. You could speak to that more in terms of whether that means leaking stuff to the Times and not the post or being on record with the Times more than the Post. They, their CFO, which nobody cares about. but Greg Resch, they hired him as their CFO a few months back, and he was a recommendation from Rock Nation. And now we've got the possibility of Jay-Z becoming a minority owner. And the team, I would remind everybody that when they waived the debt limit and they allowed him to buy out, you know, Fred Smith and Bob Rothman and Dwight Schar, that you and I both suggested and talked about the possibility that he,

he would take on future investors that would be minorities because the league was pushing for that. And that was my thought because look, what they've done in the organization, they've got an incredible, you know, stretch here of a year and a half, two years of being one of the more progressive teams with respect to hiring minorities in the league. Yes, they have. And it occurred to me that maybe they would, you know, the first group that I thought about, was that Jose Feliciano group, you know, out in California that wanted to buy out the stake directly from Rothman and Fred Smith, et cetera. But this, according to my source, is a totally plausible thing that it makes total sense with one exception, and that is whether or not Jay-Z would require some voting stock, some input, you know, some level of not control, but input,

versus what the, you know, Fred Smith, Dwight Schar, Bob Rothman, 40% ownership group had, which was no voting stock and no say in anything. And this person said it definitely makes sense that the league would be for this, that it would be great for the league, that Snyder might be into it, he's already working with their group, but would Jay-Z and somebody of his stature want to, you know, buy into a team with no say in the team? No voting, you know, control. Anyway, what's your reaction to it?

And then I'll give you mine. Okay. Now, I'm not familiar with all the NFL minority owners, you know, I mean, investors with each particular team. Right. But I'd like to see the list. And maybe we can compile this list if we can put our research department to work of NFL investors who have stabbed somebody over the course of their life. I'm going to guess that the answer is zero.

Okay. Well, if J.C. comes aboard, what do you think? The list becomes one. Right. What do you think, do you think I'm right that the list is zero? Yes. Okay. I think the list is zero.

Okay. Okay. Jay Z in 1999 was accused of stabbing a record executive at a party. He denied doing it saying was he couldn't remember what happened because he blacked out in anger. The blackout is always a good defense, but he wound up pleading guilty to third-degree assault. Didn't go to jail, wound up with probation. But, you know, I don't think the NFL is ready to embrace a minority investment. who has stabbed somebody.

I just don't think so. I didn't think about it from that perspective. That doesn't go away. Well, you know, as much as we like to legitimize everything that, you know, he's done since and he's become a tremendous businessman. He stabbed the guy and pled guilty to it. Right. But, you know, this league's about second chances.

They've always been about second and third chances. It's true. I don't think that that would be. I don't think Snyder's ever stabbed anybody. I don't think that would be an impediment at all. You don't? No, I don't. By the way, the guy Khan in Jacksonville is of Pakistani descent.

And Kim Pugula is Asian-American. She co-owns the bills with her husband. Those are the two minority. Those are the two people, a minority that are principal owners. I don't know what the list is of minority owners, like is in minority stake shareholders. I don't think anything's going to come of it. I think if nothing comes of it,

it wouldn't be because of what you said, but it would be because if you're going to be in bed with somebody without any voting stock and any say, the last person that you'd want to be a part of is a group with Dan Snyder. But you see, you're putting it on. On Jay-Z. I'm saying the league is a guy.

I think it would be Jay-Z that would opt out, not the league. I think they approve a guy with- I just told you why. They give players second and third chances all the time. They give players second and third chances all the time. And in this day and age, when they are trying to, you know, by the way, this team in particular, which has the challenge that it's never had before, you know, when I say never had before. The challenge of the last few years that it never had before, where it actually has

to market itself, where it actually has to sell itself. Not that the organization behaves in this way, but they should be actively marketing itself, making people available, being more transparent. They need customers. Well, they're not doing any of that now. Well, they're doing it maybe, you know, they got to, they're thinking about it more than they've ever thought about it. Jason Wright is. It's nice. Jason Wright talks about transparency all the time. That's nice.

Do you see the video of him and Dan Snyder out in L.A. Tour in the stadium? Didn't we talk about this the other day or not? No, you and I didn't talk about it. Okay. You know? What did you think? You know where he needs to be?

Where? Talking about a stadium and touring places in Washington, D.C. Well, he might be. He doesn't need to be in L.A. He doesn't need to be flying to Europe to look at their stadiums. He still has no friends in Washington, Washington, and this is all an exercise and futility until he gained some kind of leverage in D.C., with which he has zero.

So you're wasting your time in L.A. and Budapest and wherever else you're going, looking at stadiums, pal. I think he made the comment, and I'm looking for the exact quote that he said, we have a lot of people interested in working with us back at home. Yeah. I'm paraphrasing there, but there was some sort, because it was a very, first of all, it was Dan sort of comfortable, dressed casually, laughing a lot, you know, at dumb things. And then it was, you know, Jason sort of jumping in and taking over the conversation and, you know,

talking about, you know, they've got a lot of options and they're absorbing. There was, you know, the typical McKinsey, lots of business buzzwords in the answer, but they're absorbing a lot. They're absorbing a lot on this trip, just absorbing. And they're absorbing all these different stadiums. And at one point, he said, and I'm looking for the exact quote because I don't want to misquote him, but it was something about, oh, we're taking inspiration from everywhere. If we're going to do something that our fans really deserve, which is cutting edge and innovative, we've got to take in all these ideas, we can be creative. We're out there absorbing. Where's the part about everybody being interested?

I know that he said at some point. Okay, I'm sure you're right. My point is that nothing has changed in the district in terms of Dan Snyder's influence, cloud, or even ability to talk about a stadium. Tommy has been really all over this, everybody out there. He has no political friends in the district. He has sources. He's got contacts, and he knows the situation currently. That doesn't mean it won't change.

Doesn't mean it won't change. They might fall in love with Jason Wright. Jason and Jay-Z. And by the way, if you want a stadium in D.C., send Beyonce down there. And have her ask for it. Because I think I would say yes quickly. I can't find the quote. I know he said everybody's interested back home and working with us,

like almost inferring that all three jurisdictions are really interested. You don't believe that to be true. You don't even know who the next governor of Virginia is going to be. Right. But you don't believe that to be true. No, I don't. Right. They're wondering if they're going to be able to do training camp in Virginia this year in Richmond again.

I thought they're not doing it there. I think it's up in the air Hmm I could be wrong No you might be right about that I thought I read something recently That it's not going to happen Okay well I would be surprised

Put it this way it's been a terrible deal for Richmond Yes I mean a horrendous deal for Richmond So if it's back in Richmond It's going to be a better negotiated deal for Richmond this time I mean man you talk about getting the better of deal on that one. Old Bruce, old Bruce sold that one well. Just in time, too, Tommy, before it

really started to crater. Back when they thought Bruce was actually an upgrade over Vinny. Do you remember, like, the crowds in the first few years in the RG3 I mean, that summer was insane. When the Patriots were there,

when RG3 was coming back, that was crazy. And then literally there were a couple of years where the media, the media members, you know, outnumbered the fans that were in attendance. True. A couple of those days. You know, I'm going to get crucified for the Jay-Z stuff. Why? I will. Is it true?

Just will. Of course it's true. Okay. Well. That doesn't matter. I just, I don't see that being like a big issue for the NFL. I mean, I mean, think of it. Think about what you're saying, though.

Okay, well, I guess what I would do if I were really interested in doing a point-counterpoint is I would go back and identify all of the legal issues, probably some real ugliness of a lot of the owners currently in the league. Yeah, but I agree with you. He didn't kill him, did he? There are reprobates and weasels who own teams in the NFL, people who have. Probably committed horrific crimes of all sorts of natures that we don't know about. Okay. The NBA didn't have a problem with it.

He was a Brooklyn Nets minority owner. That's true. Right, he was. I'm just remembering that. It was when the Russian owned the team, right? Didn't he have a significant share in the team? Yes, I think he did. You're right.

I just don't think of the NBA is not the NFL. Okay. Anything else? I feel like we didn't touch on some relevant current topics of the day. You know, we can't do an eight-hour podcast, buddy. I know we can't. Alex Smith really ripped the Packers for not telling Aaron Rogers that they were trading up for Jordan Love and said that Andy Reed and the entire Kansas City organization was totally up front. with him when they drafted Patrick Mahomes.

You know, it's funny because you know me, I more often than not don't like the over-sensitivity of players. And at the same time, I don't want them to be taken advantage of. But to me, this was really stupid. This was really dumb. Like, I try to put it in terms that I would be more familiar with, you know, having a significant contributing employee, like a really talented employee that was meaningful to the business that I was in, and then I was going to try to hire somebody to be sort of a co-of- theirs and just bring

them in without telling them. No, I wouldn't do that. But, but you know, there are certain employees like that sometimes who you dread picking up the phone to talk to because there's such a pain in the ass. I agree with that. That's true. But this guy has been the face of your franchise since the last face of the franchise. And if you thought he was a pain in the ass to pick up the phone to call to let him know, you had to think he was going to be a massive pain in the ass if you didn't tell him. You're right. So it's just, it's so dumb on their part. I mean, we talked about this, but the Bears told Andy Dalton they might draft draft a quarterback this year. The Vikings told Kirk Cousins they might draft a quarterback this

year. You know what's surprising? I expect more from Mark Murphy. He's the president of the team. I mean, you got to think he was involved in that decision. He's not the GM, but he's the president of the Packers. I mean, this guy was a former labor leader among the Players Association when he, you know, played safety for Washington. There's a Colgate graduate. I expect more from I think the Iyer from Rogers is directed towards the GM. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Should I title today's show Buttered or Not?

Question mark, or he didn't kill him, did he? Have a good day. Back tomorrow. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you for listening.