The Kevin Sheehan Show - Jeff Bezos Lurking

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Kevin interviews Teddy Schleifer/Silicon Valley's Puck News on his reporting that Jeff Bezos is still a strong possibility to buy the Washington Commanders. Also on the show, ESPN's Mike Greenberg on his new book "Got Your Number", Aaron Rodgers to the Jets, and much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Is Amazon founder Jeff Bezos on the verge of making a bid for the Washington commanders? Teddy Schifler thinks so. Teddy Schifler writes for puck news.

Teddy Schifler covers Silicon Valley billionaires. We referenced Teddy's reporting earlier this week as it relates to Bezos kind of lurking as a potential 11th hour bidder and maybe a winning bidder for the franchise. Teddy Schifler will be my guest in the next segment. We'll find out everything he knows about Jeff Bezos. Also on the show today, Mike Greenberg. Greenie is going to be on the show. He was on the radio show with me this morning.

I recorded the interview actually with him last night, and so I'm going to play a lot of that back for you. It was a fun conversation with Mike Greenberg, who's really been through everything in the business. Look, he was the co-host with Mike Golick on the Mike and Mike show, which ran for years on the station that I am on, 980. And then he moved to get up several years ago. But I had a chance to reach out to Mike to ask him if he'd come on the show because he's got a book out that actually is a very interesting book. And we talked a lot about that. And he said yes, so you're going to hear a lot of that interview with Mike Greenberg coming up in the final segment of the show today. I wanted to start with two things.

The first is this. Many of you sent me this tweet. The tweet is from a Twitter account called At NFL Notify. It's got 6,200 plus followers. I don't know anything about this Twitter account. It would appear as if they've got some NFL news here and there, but I don't know. I did not do an auditing of all of their stories to see, you know,

if this is just kind of a rumor site or if it's, you know, a site that's actually gotten some news. But so many of you sent me a link to this particular tweet, which I'm going to read in a moment, a tweet that had, you know, hundreds of responses, hundreds of retweets and like over 1,500 likes. The tweet read as follows. Multiple parties who are bidding on the commander's ownership have a desire to change the team name.

One group in particular is committed to the Washington Red Wolf's name per a source. So let me just, again, reiterate, I have no idea about this Twitter account. I don't know if this is real. it's made up to try to draw, you know, some response and some new followers or not. But so many of you sent this to me. And whether it's true or not, I do believe that anybody that buys this team is going to consider, I don't know about desire, but consider the current team's name and whether or not it should be changed. You know, I've mentioned this many times. Buying this team right now is different than what would have been involved if you had bought the team

a few years back. If you had bought the Washington Redskins, you were buying a brand. You were buying an NFL team in a lucrative market, but you were also buying an 88-year-old brand. Buying the Washington football commanders now, you're just buying an NFL team in a lucrative market. You're not buying anything that's brand worthy, anything that's built up any sort of brand equity. The rollout of the February 2, 2020, name and associated branding was an absolute embarrassing flop. And the percentage of people, and I've certainly not pulled this, that would desire a change of name, is majority. It's higher than 50%. I don't need to put a poll out there

to know that a significant percentage of people interested in this team would desire a change in team name. Now, I don't know if it's doable per NFL rules or not. I don't. But again, there's no value in the acquisition of this team in any sort of built-up brand with the name or the uniforms

or anything sort of associated with the name. So I think at the very least, any new owner is going to say, let's look into this. Let's see if there's any value in this, or more importantly, if there's value in shelving it and coming up with something new. Now, I don't like Red Wolves. I've mentioned that in the past.

I think it sounds like a CYO sixth grade basketball team name, but I know many people out there do like that name. I like it more than the commanders now. I didn't back then. I didn't like either team name. My preferences I've said all along is to focus on Washington as the brand. Washington FC, FC Washington, the Washington football team. I think Washington and leaving the brand as Washington makes, I can only speak for myself. It makes me feel like I lost less of the team that was, you know, the team that I rooted for for a lifetime. 2-22 was the landing of an expansion team from my perspective. And I feel distant from the name and the uniforms and all of the branding.

And I understand that a lot of people are coming back and I understand the excitement. And I think I will feel differently when Snyder finally goes. But I'd really feel differently if we got back to just Washington. And I didn't feel like I was watching something that, you know, for a long period of time, look different and sounded different. Washington would be my preference. And certainly you're not bringing the Redskins back. That horse has left the barn.

That toothpaste is out of the toothpaste holder. You're not putting it back in. Okay. No new owner is going to, you know, investigate the possible. of bringing the old name back and creating controversy because there would be controversy, even though there would be a lot of people that would be so in favor of it. But I don't want a name at this point. I want Washington. I want the old uniforms back. I don't mind the W as a logo. And everybody could have their own nickname like soccer fans do. And my nickname would be the skins or the

hogs or whatever. But at least I would look out there and see hopefully our championship uniforms and focus on Washington, so I don't have to look out there for a big game two years from now and see on a full Chiron commanders versus cowboys. That was for me, and I think many of you, kind of uncomfortable, and made me feel even more distant than I had already started to feel as it related to the team. One more thing before we get to Teddy Schifler.

Billy Hahn passed away. Billy Hahn played basketball for Maryland in the early to mid-1970s for Lefty Dresel. Billy Hahn was a part of the greatest college basketball game or certainly one of the two or three greatest college basketball games of all time. The 1974 ACC Final lost by Maryland in overtime against NC State, 103 to 100. That was the game that changed the NCAA tournament rules where they allowed more than one team per conference, because Maryland is the second or third best team in the country, losing that game to NC State, the eventual NCAA tournament champion.

They beat UCLA in the semis and then Marquette in the finals, but Maryland couldn't even go to the tournament. And they called that the Maryland rule, and it was the beginning of what became March Madness with more than one team per conference, and it became more than the tournament that UCLA pretty much won every year. But a lot of you really remember. Billy Hahn as Gary Williams' chief lieutenant during the stretch of years where Gary was building

up Maryland after it had been torn down by ugly and I think over-the-top probation in the early 90s. Gary took over in 1989, hired Billy Hahn, hired Jimmy Patsos, and Billy Han was with Gary through 2001, through the final four season. And then he took a job ahead. coaching job with LaSalle. Billy Hahn, though, came back after his LaSalle years and had 11 years as Bob Huggins chief assistant at West Virginia. Bobby, Billy Hahn was loved by everybody and maybe the most memorable Billy Han moment was when Gary Williams was sick. He was in the hospital with pneumonia. and Maryland was playing a big game in 1995 against Duke late in the season at Cameron Indoor, and Coach Shoshchewski wasn't coaching for Duke.

In fact, the guy that was coaching for Duke was Pete Goddette. And so it was a matchup of Maryland without Gary Williams against Duke without Mike Shoshowski. The game came in March of 1995. Joe Smith went for 40 points and tipped in the game winning shot and Billy Hahn got carried off the court at Cameron & Door by the Maryland players. That was quite the moment, quite the win, quite the performance, by the way, by Joe Smith. And Maryland went into that tournament in 1995 as a two-seed, ended up losing to Yukon in the Sweet 16 that year.

but Billy Hahn had one hell of a coaching career as an assistant primarily. He was a head coach at Ohio University in the mid-80s and then a head coach at LaSalle in the early 2000s. And I saw many people tweeting out, Jimmy Patsos tweeted out today, Sadheart today as we lost our dear friend coach Billy Hahn. It taught me so much about the business of men's college basketball and what it meant to be a part of the Maryland basketball family. Love you, Dog. That was from our good friend Jimmy Patsos, who coached years at Maryland with Billy Han. Billy Hahn, 69 years old, way too young, sad news. Apparently one fun guy to hang around. I know a lot of people in the Maryland basketball family and in the West Virginia basketball family

will be very saddened by this news. All right, up next, Teddy Schifler will jump on with us and tell us how close he thanks Jeff Bezos is at making a bid for the Washington commanders. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. Jumping on with us right now is Teddy Schifler. Teddy writes for Puck News. You can follow Teddy on Twitter at Teddy S-C-H-L-E-I-F-E-R. Teddy covers Silicon Valley, covers Silicon Valley billionaires, and there are plenty of those out in Northern California. and their impact on the world. And the reason we're having Teddy on the show is because he has been active here recently

in reporting on the potential of Jeff Bezos still being the potential acquirer of the Washington commanders. So that's why we're having Teddy on. Teddy's nice enough to give us some time. I want to start with just, you know, you sort of expanding on what you do and how you sort of came about writing and, you know, looking into the Washington commander sale, because I know sports and sports business isn't necessarily the thing you focus on with Puck News. Right. Sure. So, you know, Puck is an outlet that basically covers high society, I guess you can think about, you know,

the elite, the elite conversation in politics and business, in media. And for me, it's in tech. So I cover, you know, wealthy people and what they're doing in the world. So I've covered Bezos for a while and have a sense of how he does things and his operation. And, you know, if this was an acquisition that was being done by Josh Harris or by Steve Poplopoulos, like would not really be of concern or interest in me, at least as, you know, or only be of interest in me as an NFL fan. but Bezos obviously has been circling this since November and you know it's a real business story, right? I mean, that story about a guy who is trying to acquire a company just like, you know, Amazon acquiring whole food.

But what's fun to me about acquisitions by, you know, billionaires of sports teams is like it's one of the few things that, you know, you can't just buy. you know these guys are so rich to getting so rich and so used to getting everything they want very easily you know there's a supply limit here right there's only 32 of these teams this is true in every league football

baseball basketball hockey so I're seeing lots of rich people now go into buying like Formula 1 racing teams or you know pickleball pickleball leagues like there's there's only so many things they can have only sports teams they can buy so I'm interested in this because the business

story. The NFL is, you know, the, the vanity purchase among sports franchises, right? Owning an NFL team, nothing comes close to that. Or I guess Formula One would sort of internationally or owning a big... Not pickleball, even though pickleball is a great game. Drives some people nuts, drives tennis players nuts. But that's another story. Did you report extensively, I understand Walmart is retail. It's not high tech. But did you report at all on the Walton Penner Group acquiring Denver or, you know, a hedge fund guy like Tepper acquiring the Panthers? No, no, I didn't. And that's, you know, I'm coming to this as, you know, a Bezos criminologist. You know, the guy's interested in Jeff specifically.

And, you know, this phase of his life, you know, where he is out of Amazon and pivoting to philanthropy and politics. sports and to, you know, kind of being this tabloid sensation. To me, this is interesting to Jeff Bezos, you know. I mean, I follow the Tepper and Walton Purchases just because, you know, I love football. But I'm not thinking of me as a Bezos guy. Teddy, are you, where are you based out of? Are you local? Yeah, I now live in D.C.

But I've been in San Francisco for the last seven years covering tech. Got it. All right. So let's talk about Bezos. How far away from or how close is he to making an offer to buy Washington? So I think he is definitely interested and is continuing to kick the tires. You know, I report my story at Puck that, you know, Jeff has long told friends that he wants to own an NFL team. Now, I say, you know, indefinite article there.

I don't know if it's this NFL team. Like he is, you know, someone who is kind of hanging around the hoop here, right? He has not removed himself from the process. He has kept the line of communication open with Snyder's people. You know, he has signed an NBA to not talk about it publicly. He hired Allen & Co., which are the investment bankers to kick the tires more formally. You don't do those things if you're, like, not interested in this team. Now, it's unclear whether or not he's going to put down kind of,

of a, you know, conversation-ending bid in a way that he can. He can put down, you know, $6 billion. He could be down $600 billion, $16 billion, any amount that could make Dan Snyder, you know, end this process real fast. And, you know, I can tell you that, you know, the other bidding groups are not under the illusion that just because they are, you know, seem to be in the poll position, They're not under the illusion that they've won this. I think there's a lot of trepidation about Bezos,

a lot of concern that he could still win this thing, even though he's, as you know, engaging in a much more quiet campaign, right? He's not sending Magic Johnson on The Today Show, like the Josh Harris Group is. He's doing this much more quietly. So I think, I don't want to say it's close, but I think it is definitely possible that this still ends with that Jeff Bezos owned,

I guess on one hand, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking, if he wasn't still interested, given all of the reporting around it, I don't know, maybe he isn't even paying attention, somebody close to him is probably paying attention, that maybe there would be some sort of statement that he'd come out and say definitively, I'm not buying Washington, because him hanging around, at least perception-wise, is probably only helping Dan Snyder. Definitely, right? If you think that, you know, Jeff has no interest maybe in helping Dan. I mean, look, Jeff is obviously paying attention. You know, there was an interview he did with CNN in November where he was asked to interest in knowing the commanders. He basically said wink and not yes, right? Like, there's no reason to do that. I mean, him putting out a statement, there's no reason to do that if he's not interested.

I mean, I don't know if the bar for him to put out a formal statement saying, like, I'm not interested in the commanders. I don't know if that's necessary. I mean, he, you know, I guess he could, like, tweet something, right? He could, you know, he does have time on his hands now. But I think the reason he's not doing it is because he's genuinely interested. And, you know, in MBA school language, like business school language, you know, people talk about optionality, right, the idea that you want to have the ability to do something, even if you do not actually plan on doing it.

And I think Bayes right now is preserving his optionality. He is around the deal. He's not submitted a formal bid, but Dan Snyder knows how to reach him. Jeff knows how to reach Dan Snyder. And, you know, he's watching the press and he's watching the prices. And he's preserving the option to make a bid. And it just so happens, though, that he also has the option to make a bid that ends this deal, you know, pretty quickly. So that's why this can go from 0 to 100 really fast.

It can go from Jeff Bezos, has not submitted a bid to Jeff Bezos owns the franchise very quickly in a way that it's not true for the other bidders. So he's obviously approaching this very unconventionally. I feel like lots of these franchise sale processes kind of all look the same, whether it's the Walton's or the Tppers or, frankly, MLB, NBA, they all kind of have the same feel to them. Jeff doesn't need to play by that playbook just because he's so much more money than, you know, anybody in human history. Right, but understanding that, and that's obvious, like, he could certainly make a bid that in a normal situation would be, you know, an end of conversation.

Jeff Bezos now owns that company or that business, but it has to be accepted by the seller. And we had early reporting that Bezos was excluded from the process and that Dan's long-running, you know, very confrontational relationship with the Washington Post was a big part of that. And then here recently, and my belief is, and I want you to share yours, is that he didn't get the kind of number that he thought he might get from, whether it was Harris or anybody else that would jump in. And now all of a sudden, Bezos is the one that can get him his number. But do you feel right now that Dan is in a position or is willing to accept that killer, you know, slam the door shut on everybody else bid from Bezos? So I was talking about optionality with Bezos. Think about this from Dan's perspective. Like, he's also maintaining optionality, right?

He's keeping the ability to sell to Jeff. Like, why wouldn't you? You know, like, I understand, you know, he obviously has a grudge against the paper. and I'm sure that Dan intellectually understands that Jeff Bezos is not sitting at, you know, the computer in a musty newsroom, you know, typing out, hit pieces on the commander. Of course. You know, Dan Center understands that. But there is an element of, you know, he wants to maintain the ability to sell to Bezos, you know, if the Harris bid still come in at, you know, the $7 billion or $8 billion figure. I'll say, though, that the reporting around Snyder, like, excluding Jeff from the process,

like, some of the, I think, an aggregate, some of the journalism around that was, like, certainly confusing or contradictory. Like, there were some reporting that that was true. There were some other reporting that that wasn't true. I don't know for sure about whether or not he was actually excluded. And I mentioned my story that, you know, Dan and Jeff have talked recently one-on-one, or at least, they've had a personal conversation about these things. It was like late last year, so it was a while ago at this point. But, you know, I don't get the sense that the door has ever been shut fully.

So would Snyder, in my estimation, probably prefer to sell to Josh Harris all the things being equal? Or, you know, Steve Poplopoulos, like, yes. But, you know, it comes down to the money, right? And Snyder's not dumb. And, you know, if there's a bid for six from other people that are not Jeff Bezos, was it did from 6'5, like, you know, people talk about the Jeff Bezos tax here, right? Like, you know, that extra $500 million, are you really going to turn that now just because you're mad about a story? I don't know. That seems to go against human nature.

It does go against human nature, but those of us that have followed the Snyder organization for two plus decades, understand that, you know, impulsivity, pettiness have come. kind of gotten in the way of optionality, as you describe it. Like, he's not been the greatest of deal makers. His organization has been fleeced one time after another over the years, and the pettiness has been a part of that, you know, at times. So that's what made that early reporting so believable, I think, for so many of us. Sure.

It's like, even if it's not 100% true, like it's true enough that there's feeling like it's probably, you know, it's in the right ballpark of truth, just knowing the personality. So there's a couple of other things I want to get to with you, but just right now, net it out. Where do you think we are? Because, you know, a lot of us that have had some sources on this, on this potential deal, whether it's from the bank or whether it's from the bidder or whether it's from the seller, you know, have all gotten information in recent weeks that this is imminent with Josh Harris and that the Harris group is sitting there, you know, they've submitted their bid and they're expecting that Snyder would accept it, you know, in short order.

It hasn't happened. So where do you think we are on this right now today? And isn't that suspicious, right? I mean, like, you know, if Snyder wants to sell this right now, Josh Harris, he's got, you know, a fair bid on the table from someone who's not controversial. not going to, you know, upset the media deals element of this, you know. So I think, I do not think we are close. And, you know, I'm sure going out to tomorrow, I don't look like an idiot.

But, like, I think if Dan wanted to snow with Josh Harris for $6 billion, like, this would have happened, you know, a couple weeks ago, right? It seems like it's being slow-played, doesn't it? Yeah. And, like, like, so much so that, like, I don't know, I sometimes hear chatter, and I wonder if you hear this. Like, some people speculate, like, maybe Snyder's not going to sell at all, right? That, you know, the pressure on him seems to have gone down since he put out that, you know, famous two-sentence statement in November when he never committed to selling the team, technically. He committed to what?

Considering potential transactions or something, boilerplate. I feel that, you know, the Harris bid, while it's obviously, you know, a strong bid to check all the boxes, yada, yada, yada. It is certainly conspicuous that has not been accepted, or this has not been moving any faster. So my bad is, I think, there's a few more scenes to go in this movie. Yeah, I think the possibility of him not selling at this point, I mean, as petty and sometimes completely detached as it's, you know, as he has seemed to have been over the years, this would be an all. out like the business, you understand how much the business of the Washington football franchises failed, you know, compared to other franchises here in recent years. I mean, lowest attendance, lowest capacity of attendance, some of the lowest local television ratings,

some of the lowest ancillary revenue, you know, beyond the media revenue that gets shared 32 different ways. If he were to basically pull a Lucy and pull the ball away from Charlie Brown, if he thinks the business was bad the last few years, imagine what it will deteriorate to if he actually were to say, you know, I tried, I didn't get the number I wanted, but I found somebody that's going to pay a billion dollars for 20% to help me get out of some of the debt I'm in. We're going to do it that way. It just, and not to mention, Teddy, for the league, I think they have finally come to realize just how, you know, absolutely. you know, eroded this fan base has become in that the market just isn't a viable NFL

market if he's still here. And there are other personal things, too. I don't think his family wants any part of this thing anymore either. I just, I mean, I don't think that the chance of him staying as a majority owner is any more than like a tenth of one percent. I mean, do you get that sense? Is there anything that you've learned related to that? you'd have better sourcing on that than I would. I mean, my, you know, I just think it's indisputably true that the pressure is less than it was in like October, November. And so, you know, yeah, sure, you know, people at the, you know, the owner's meetings are still saying, you know, are still suggesting that they're not comfortable with Snyder. But, like, you know, I mean, you've seen, you know, PR scandals or PR crises come and go.

and I understand the Snyder one, you know, it's not like, it's not like, you know, made a mean remark once and then, you know, had to be quiet for six months and let the, you know, let the crisis, you know, boil over. Like, there's clearly a broader, more structural issue with this franchise. But I just think the pressure is less than it was six months ago. I think if you're speaking specific to sort of the other 31 owners and the league commissioner, maybe you're right.

I think the pressure, though, from, what's left of the fan base and what may be part of the fan base without him here has increased because we've been we now have the expectation that he's going to sell and that didn't exist back in November and now it does and it's almost impossible for him to walk it out or walk it back and then have a legitimate business but anyway you said something and I wanted to um you made just a small remark related to Bezos and his relationship with the league.

Does the Amazon deal with the NFL, is there any reason why we should think that relationship would be an issue or conflict for the league with him as an owner? I think absolutely. It's a potential conflict.

I mean, look, this is not, I think there would certainly have to be you know, lawyer to conversations about how involved Jeff could be in, you know, approving media deals.

You know, it's not just Amazon, which, you know, of course, you know, has Thursday Night Football, right?

I mean, like, who knows what the media deal landscape is going to look like, you know, Jeff 55 years old, like, you know,

he could be the owner of 30 years. Like, who knows, you know, what Metaverse we're going to be broadcasting, NFL games on in, you know,

202, 53. I mean, you know, Apple obviously is very involved or is very interesting in getting involved with football, you know, to say nothing of the traditional broadcast partners right now, which are kind of all broadly, you know, competitors to Amazon in some way or another. I think it would absolutely be a conflict or potential conflict. You know, Bezos, not the CEO anymore, is the executive chair.

That's not like he's, you know, a passive player in Amazon decision-making. You know, it's the largest shareholder, like 12, 13% of the company. you know, and to some extent, like, you know, I think recusals might not do it justice because the, to recuse yourself from like media deals, I mean, that's like so much of, you know, NFL teams revenue as you're referencing a couple minutes ago. Like, this is not, you know, the owner of a beef jerky company saying he's going to recuse himself from what type of piece jerky, you know, they're selling it. They're selling at the stadium.

Like, this is the, like, this is the entire league kind of present. future and president future here. So, you know, I know some folks around the league who worry profoundly about this question. And, like, how do you devise a recusal scheme that doesn't make, like, Bezos, this neutered owner where he basically doesn't do anything? Because if you're accusing yourself from media deals, like, what else is left? So, you know, and I think for other owners here, look, the NFL is a good thing going, you know, the league is doing well financially

if you take the Harris bid or frankly the other bids like this is not an issue and I understand that every NFL owner wants their team marked up because they want to sell eventually or their errors want to sell eventually and so to some extent you want the highest bid or no matter what right you want

you know Bays us to pay eight rather than Josh Harris to pay six but if you take the Josh Harris bid at six you know you're not upsetting the Apple card here right you keep on roll and with the gravy train, the media deals keep on coming, and you don't have to, like, you know, it's like, why add this extra complicating factor? Would his wealth be intimidating to the other owners? Are there any other? Would some of that, you know, I mean, his wealth dwarfs everybody, you know, unless we're talking about

Musk or Buffett or Ellison or, you know, Gates? I mean, you cover these people. You have the list in front of you, I'm sure, are in your mind. I'm trying to think with the current, I'm trying to think with the current richest that a owner is. Well, it's got to be the Walton Penner Group now, right? Oh, yeah, sure. The Walton family is, like, you know, divided in a bigillion different ways.

But yeah. Yeah. So do you think that there are owners that would say, I don't want a guy that's going to come in here, and by the way, there's no salary cap for coaches. There's no salary cap for front office executives. And who's to say that he won't come in and say, no, I'm going to pay the best coach.

in the league that's available 10 million more a year than my closest competitor. I mean, he can do the same thing in bidding for coaches in front office executives as he might be doing in the process of purchasing the team right now. That's interesting point. I've heard other people point out, obviously, that with the seller-account for players, is a democratizing factor, but for coaches, to a point. yeah look I mean I think Bezos

entering the league would certainly create a spectacle you know can you imagine like owners meetings you know because right now the highest profile owners or what

probably Jerry Jones and Kraft and I guess Snyder to some extent so like you know I think it would create a circus like atmosphere I mean you know

Bezos is like he's not like a super he's sort of become this like tabloid sensation over the last five years you know partially because of because of his partner, and, you know, he is this, you know, a brerious, you know, sort of famous laugh that makes him a high-profile guy.

But I don't think he would, like, necessarily welcome the attention that would come from this. And for the other owners, like, you know, I know there's some owners I know for sure that do not like him. and would rather have, you know, someone like Josh Harris, who's, you know, not going to create this kind of circus. You know, Josh obviously currently owns other teams and other leagues. So, but, look, I mean, rich guys are egotistical, and, you know, I do think you're on to something when you point out that, you know, inviting, you know,

the only other person that makes them feel poorer into their exclusive club, definitely we'll play some mind games for some of these. Do you have a hunch on what kind of owner he would be and maybe the easiest way to ask for an answer is to say super hands-on or super hands-off? So I think he actually pretty hands-off. I say that, look, I mean, Bezos has other parts of his empire that I think you can think of as comparable, right? I mean, like, the post, you know, he bought for, what, $250 million a decade ago, you know, he installed a publisher, Jeff R. Brian, who, you know, runs a day-to-day.

Bezos has, you know, philanthropic entities, you know, folks who run these things day to day. You know, Jeff is sort of like a citizen of the world now, right? You see him popping up in, like, you know, Sicily and the Vatican and, you know, sometimes in L.A., like, he's not even in Washington. On spaceships. on spaceships, right, in outer space. I mean, he's got Blue Origin, he's got Post, he's got Amazon, which he's still involved with. You know, I do not think he would be, you know,

I'm sure he would go to games, and I'm sure he would, you know, be talking with whoever he installs as sort of his executive team. What? Weekly? I mean, that seems reasonable, but I do not think he would be involved in a day, day, do you think Washington would be a better purchase for him or Seattle? I mean, I think Seattle would be, well, well, actually, I have two thoughts on that. A, he'd be more excited about Seattle. He, you know, lives there, basically.

You know, though it's unclear, you know, people suspect that given kind of the trust rules around, I'm on extra, but people suspect that, right, given the rules around Jody Allen's holding, you know, after her brother's death, that, like, she would be a cell up theoretically down the line, though that's not 100% confirmed. So, you know, I think you'd rather own the Seahawks. That being said, and, you know, you'd have a great advantage from this. Like, I feel like every owner or every person who buys the commander's potential owner is just walking into a, like, honeymoon scenario here that it's got to be almost... No doubt. No doubt. Like, if anybody, you know, buys this team and, you know, they successfully, you know, go, like a month about a scandal,

You know, like they're going to be greeted as liberators. So I know Bezos is smart enough to know that. And look, this is the guy who cares about his image. You know, he has gone from being sort of, I think, a pretty celebrated figure. And people still like Amazon overall. But, you know, Jeff now has all these kind of critics on the left, you know, who see him as this kind of avatar of American capitalism, you know. Obviously, Amazon has gotten lots of negative publicity surrounding its treatment of work.

yada yada yada so i think this is a pretty easy PR win for jeff if he if he buys the commanders and does not screw it out fantastically it's funny because i was um commenting i guess last week or the week before i i just guessed when the magic johnson news came out on the harris bid right after mitch rales came out and it was magic i just said they're doing what you know um in typical big acquisitions high-profile acquisitions you do. You kind of put all the, you know, the pushback possibilities on hold by kind of announcing, and I guess that the next announcement would be like a major female limited partner, you know, like a Sheila Johnson or somebody like that.

But the point, like as I was saying it, I was like, look, you don't even need that in this because this entire market will be so thrilled that Dan is gone that literally, like the zombie of Lee Harvey Oswald could buy this thing and everybody would be fine with it. That was distasteful, but whatever. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Oh, I know what I wanted to ask you. So, you know, you understand this stuff. You know, a lot of the conversation has been about, you know, the financials.

Like, this team is not worth, you know, $6 billion. I've had many people tell me, including some people who have seen the prospectus. It's like this team's, like, this team's, lost 25% plus of its net profit over the last five years. You know, $4.65 billion was what was paid for Denver and they had a stadium and they have a fan base and you're acquiring a team that doesn't have a stadium, needs one and has lost two-thirds of its fan base, you know, under this owner. So you've got to be in the customer acquisition business, although I think a lot of people will come back just on Dan being gone. But do you think it's possible that,

we have reached the top, that the increase in valuation of NFL franchises isn't going to grow exponentially anymore after this sale? I don't. I mean, I think, look, I mean, the way that, I mean, this is really a big picture question about kind of the future of streaming to some extent. Look, I mean, there's so much more competition right now than deals. I mean, like, obviously, like, you know, linear television is a dying breed, and, you know, to some extent, answering this question requires us to, like, think about, I mean, I was joking a couple minutes ago about the Metaverse, but, like, to some extent, like, it requires, you know, rethinking, like, what does pricing look like for, you know, Sunday night, you know, football, right? Or, you know, anything from, you know, NBA league pass, right? You have to understand, you know, are these things being more valuable as, you know, as when your television dies or less valuable.

There are a lot of tech companies that are encroaching into media, Amazon, of course, Apple. You know, it'll be interesting to see what YouTube does here. And, you know, in an era when a lot of assets are subject to, you know, inflationary risk, like sports franchises, feel like one of the few things that kind of keep on going up to the right. Like, I mean, the fact that Snyder bought this for $750 million, right? Is that right? 800 million, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, and he's going to sell this, you know, for, you know, almost a thousand percent on top of that, you know, 20 years later, is an incredible financial return. And I feel like I don't think we're at the top unless, you know, the league really starts suffering due to, you know, media deals that start going south. These things get locked. These rights obviously get locked up for a long time to, I do not think we're at the top. You know, I think, you know, when the Seahawks gets sold, you know, each one of these deals reprises the market, right? So illiquid. There's only 32 of these teams. Yeah.

How often is a team sold every few years? I guess we had a run of a couple in a row. But, you know, I think this sells for six, like, you know, the Seahawks could sell for seven. And then, you know, who knows, Texan sell for eight, the Cowboys sell for not. etc., etc. And suddenly, you know, suddenly you're talking real money. Yeah, I guess because I always felt that way. I felt like, you know, look, this is a, you know, this is all about supply demand,

and there's no supply, and there are enough billionaires out there, you know. But we've seen with this purchase that it is hard to make a $6 billion purchase, given the NFL's ownership rules. And I guess actually, if I were looking at, you know, if I were looking at this prospectus and saying, you know, what's the expected ROI? To me, it would be that the rules become less restrictive and some Saudi prince decides to pay $12 billion just to own an NFL franchise at some point. That that's probably the biggest upside opportunity down the road if the NFL loosens its purchasing rules. Right.

I think I'm telling me if I'm wrong, the NFL now does not allow private equity to buy. No private equity, no sovereign money, exactly. Unlike other leagues, right? I mean, so, so, sure. I mean, and the part of it's to do with kind of like the clubby atmosphere of like the ownership league, right, where you don't want like, you know, random LP limited partners, you know, who you've never met, you know, owning part of the team. Sure. Sure.

Like, you know, the fact that, you know, it's a 30% ownership requirement for the majority investor, you know, no PE, right? I mean, if you start loosening these things and really unleash, you know, really unleash the supply and demand, you know, these numbers could start going getting even crazier. Last one, actually. Sure. Who is the richest owner in team sports? Is it Balmer? I think it is. I was thinking about that.

I mean, you mentioned Larry Ellison a couple minutes ago. I mean, Ellison always tried to own team, you know, mostly in basketball, always tried to buy the clippers, try to buy. You know, there's some chat with him trying about the sons and the deal that was by Matt Espia. But Balmer is, you know, Balmer's up there. I mean, Lorraine Powell Jobs is a part owner of the Wizards. Yes, right, true. Yeah, I think I'm just thinking like, you know, the Zuckerbergs and, you know, the Google guys, Bryn and page. page. They don't own sports teams. So, you know, just because you're worth, you know,

50 billion plus or whatever the numbers are, you've got to have some interest in sports. But it's just to see, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I was just saying, but Ballmer is like the great example of that, right? Like, Balmer is having, you know, the time of his life, you know, court-side of games. And, you know, I once in that, I once in a meeting with Balmer, and, you know, you know, the, you know, the, the, the consensus when Balmer bought the team was that he overpaid, right?

You know, one idiot, rich guy really wants against the NBA, you know, buys the clippers kind of a similar situation, scandalized owner. And like, I was up at a conference where Balmer was saying,

you know, everyone says I overpaid, but like compared to the amount of fun I'm having, I actually underpaid. So, so, like, you know, I think you really have to want to do this.

And look, there's lots of different ways to be an owner. you could never show up at games. And obviously, you know, the NFL is just, you know, 16 or 17 games, you know, a few, you know, half those are any of their own games. So you can be absentee if you want. But I think the reason to do this is because you want to be in it, right?

I mean, that's the fun of it. And, you know, Bezos and Balmer could be a good model for Bezos, right? Actually, Balmer's pretty involved in Clippers. I mean, he's, like, showing up at press conferences with Paul George and Kauai and stuff. Yeah. It's weird, though, with Balmer. Like, he could have any seat in the building and he sits behind the basket. Like, to me, that's the worst seat in the joint.

Like, Cuban, you know what's interesting, and I don't know how much you follow this, but there's only one, I think maybe two. Mark Cuban does not sit on his team's bench. You know, he gets accused of that, but he's usually one to two rows behind the bench. Sure, yeah. Ted Leonas sits on his. NBA team's bench. He is the first seat

when the bench ends like next to the head coach. In this market, look, every owner in town gets a free pass because they're compared to Snyder. So, but it's interesting. But yeah, Balmer, you know, he's certainly a goofy fan

and he doesn't give himself the best seat in the house. But anyway, all right, one last one for Teddy Schleifer, who's nice enough to join us here for more than enough time and I appreciate that. But what's your prediction? Like who, price, and when? So I'll make it spicy. I'm going to predict Davey those takes it. I think, I think, you know, I think he is monitoring the process. You know, I think it'll be, you know, somewhere between six and seven and the when, I'll say it'll take longer than we think.

Like, I know there's now chatter like by the draft. I mean, that seems unlikely than me. You know, I think something time in May. And yeah, six to seven, you know, taken by the guy out of Amazon. But obviously, I look forward to being wrong. Look, this has been one of the most incredible, like, a couple of months in terms of the reporting. And, you know, like my partner on this podcast for two days a week, Tom Levera, who's a longtime columnist with the Washington Times.

And he has made the point. And he's like, look, you know, for my fellow reporters, the bottom line is they may end up being wrong with their report, but it doesn't mean they were wrong in the moment, you know? And I think there's been a lot of in this story, and maybe you have a feel for it as well. But I said to Tommy a few weeks ago, I said it feels like some of the reporting on this is based on things that happened like two weeks ago. And what's happening currently we actually aren't getting news on. Yeah, that's, I mean, look, I mean, you know, reporting is hard. And, you know, trying to get, you know, people who are not supposed to talk is to talk, you know, it's first drop of history, right?

And to some extent, if you want the full story here, you're going to have to wait for, you know, like the book or the magazine article in, you know, six months that let people feel more liberated, tell the full story, you know. Great job. Really appreciate the time. Teddy Schleifer writes for Puck News at Puck News on Twitter at Teddy Schifler on Twitter S-C-H-L-E-I-F-E-R.

He covers the world's richest people, including Jeff Bezos, and your perspective was valuable. I appreciate it. Thanks. You bet. All right. Up next, Greenie. Yeah, Mike Greenberg, from Get Up on ESPN, and for years, the Mike

and Mike show on our radio station, the Team 980. We'll get to him right after these words. from a few of our sponsors. So I had Mike Greenberg, that Mike Greenberg, Greenie from ESPN's Get Up, and for years, the co-host of the Mike and Mike Radio show on the station that I've been on for years,

ESPN 980 and the team 980. And Greenie's got a book out, and it's actually a really interesting book, and I was watching him discuss it on his show earlier this week, so I reached out to see. see if he had any time to come on and talk about the book, and he did. So I had him on the radio show this morning, and I'm going to play a lot of that back for you right now. I think you'll enjoy it.

We talked a little bit about, you know, him going from that early morning radio to television at a later hour, not that late, but a later hour. Talked a little bit about his New York Jets and the Aaron Rogers situation, and then got into the book as well. So here's that. The entirety of the interview can be heard at the team 980.com, but you're going to get a lot of it right here and a lot of the best of it right here. So this was my conversation with Mike Greenberg,

which started with kind of talking to him about for all those years, and he was on early morning radio with Mike Golick for 18 years, doing 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. every day. And I just asked him about how much different it became for him when he didn't have to get up at 3 a.m., but instead started to get up at 5 a.m. And that's where our conversation started. Here it is. Life-changing. I mean, we're so different. It's hard to even put it into words. My alarm was set for 345 for 18 years, and now it's set for about 5 o'clock in the morning.

And what I always say is 5 o'clock is early in the morning, and 3.45 is the middle of the night. And there was a big difference between getting up early in the morning and getting up in the middle of the night. Yeah, Mike, I actually made the switch here recently, too, from morning drive to kind of the mid-morning to early afternoon time slot. And, you know, nobody's complaining. We're not digging ditches, obviously. But I think one of the issues that probably you had for all of those years as a sports fan was not having the ability always to watch games. because a lot of the games that you wanted to watch were at night and sometimes late at night. It is one of the hardest parts of the job.

When I first started doing the mornings in the very beginning of the year 2000, you know, I said to my wife, we didn't even have children yet at that time. I said to her, I think we have a chance to do something really good here. I think the show could be really good. I think it could be something that turns out really well for our lives. But I am positive that we're going to have to build our life around it. It's going to be a schedule that we're going to have to sort of build our entire world around making it work.

And that's exactly what we did. And look, it turned out to be very much worth it. You're right. No one needs to feel sorry for us. I have the best life of anyone I could ever imagine. But it did mean, you know, making sure I got my sleep at certain times and napping at certain times and seeing this and missing that and catching up on things and missing out on going to things and all that. It became, for me, very much all-encompassing. And I guess it still is to a

degree, but I'm now at this point, I'm so used to it that I don't even really think of it that way anymore. But that's kind of the way I approached it going back 23 years ago or whatever that was now, was in order to do this right, it just sort of has to take over your life. And, you know, that's what we did then. And I suppose to some degree, we still live in that way. Mike Greenberg's got a book out called Got Your Number, and I saw, I watched you guys debate the number 32 the other day, which is why I reached out to have you on, and I'm so appreciative of you making time to talk about the book. But before we get to that, you know, those of us that have listened to you, watched you over the years know, the pain you've had to go through being a New York

jet fan. And by the way, here for us, it's been 30 years since the glory days of the Redskins. And it's been, you know, it's been pretty awful since. But seriously, is this Aaron Rogers thing going to happen or not? Yes, I think it is. It's funny you say that. I went out to get coffee this morning, and my doorman, as I walked out the door, said to me, what the hell is going on with this thing?

You know, so the fans here are getting frustrated. But what I really believe is going on is that, Rogers has sent signals to the Jets one way or another that they don't need to rush because he's not coming that soon anyway. I don't think Rogers was, it's as though, I don't think that this is a situation where if this trade had been done, he'd be in the building right now, you know, getting to know people and working out with people and doing whatever he could be doing. I don't think he's showing up here until after the draft anyway. And so I think he has sent messages, you know, whether directly or indirectly to the Jets, don't be in a rush. Take this thing all the way to the draft because when Chris comes to shove, the attackers are going to want drafts in this year's draft.

And the Jets desperately don't want, and if you're Rogers, you desperately don't want them to give up their first round pick, which is the 13th pick in the draft. I just had a Zoom with Mel Kuiper and Lewis Riddick and Bougar McFarland. Susie Culber and the entire team that is doing the NFL draft. And as we go through it, I can tell anyone listening right now, if you're interested, the overwhelming projections for this draft are that the first eight picks, maybe nine, but probably eight, are going to be quarterbacks and pass rushers. There's one corner that everybody likes, but they might sneak in there.

But outside that, it's going to be quarterbacks and edge rushers. And then there was going to be a run on offensive tackles from nine until like, 20, there are going to be maybe six offensive tackles. They get drafted. And the Jets pick 13. And that's exactly what they need. And if you're Rogers, that's exactly what you want them to take. So you don't want the Jets trading that pick to Green Bay.

You want them taking one of these guys. And so long as they do, then I don't think they will have lost out on anything. So if you're asking me my prediction, I would say I think that the week of the draft, maybe Tuesday, Wednesday, something like that of that week, the trade will get consummated. if somehow by some accident we get past the draft and the deal has not happened, now we really have a problem. Because now all the onus is on the Jets to get it done, and the Packers are suddenly the team that is in no rush whatsoever.

So I don't expect that. But that is the reason why the Jets can't afford to overplay their hand, because if it gets to that, then they really have a problem. So I think it's going to happen too, I think most NFL. fans think it's going to happen. And what's interesting is I think the Jets in Washington are very similar in that they've got excellent defenses. They've got playmakers on offense. They need to improve their offensive line, but they've just been missing the quarterback. And before it became apparent that Rogers was going to get dealt to New York, I mean, I was a big proponent of,

you give Green Bay whatever it takes. You get Aaron Rogers here in D.C. We're an actual contender for the first time in 30 years in the NFC. Now, the AFC is different because it's deeper and it's better, especially at the top. But I would think that you think that with Aaron Rogers, for the first time in a long, long time, you've got a legitimate chance to make the playoffs and win games in the playoffs. Absolutely.

If he plays well, the Jets are really good. The Jets, the team that should go out and get Aaron Rogers at the point, you were just making is a team that is Aaron Rogers away from having a chance to do something special. And the jets are that. Their defense is that good. The skill position talent is that good. The offensive line needs a little work, but is not that far if they are healthy from being that good. So I do believe they are Aaron Rogers away from being a legitimate contender. Could I, at the risk of hijacking your show, ask you a question, which is to say, Washington is one of the immediate at places I looked at for Lamar Jackson as well. And if you're telling me that they should be

going after or should have gone after Rogers, which I totally understand, can someone explain to me? I mean, I don't think that the words, I would rather have Sam Howell than Lamar Jackson have ever been spoken aloud and consecutively in the history of mankind. So I'm having a really hard time understanding why that's one that seems not even to have been. considered. I get that this is your show and you should be asking the question. No, no, but it's how is how do you explain that? Well, it's, it's, um, it's been interesting just to see so much of the national media say Lamar to Washington makes so much sense. But I think what we know here locally is that they're not spending any money. You know, they're just, this is an ownership change, which by the way

is the number one story here. It'll be, it'll be cause for a celebration like this city hasn't had since, you know, the World Series in 2019. And you could make the case that it'll be a bigger celebration that when Snyder is finally gone. But the bottom line is, is Dan and Tanya aren't going to put down whatever would be required at signing, you know, in cash for a $200 million guarantee deal. That would have to be a decision made by the new owner, and the new owner is not in place yet.

So they have, they did extend Duran Payne, but a lot of the money that's due. into escrow for the guarantee dollars isn't due until they're long gone. They're not spending money. That's the number one reason. I'm not to mention the fact they actually don't have a ton of cap space and they'd have to cut a ton of players. But to your point for me, and I've talked about this, if there were a way to get Lamar Jackson here in a heartbeat, just the way I felt about Aaron Rogers, because immediately

now you are a team that can win 11, 12, 13 games. and go deep into the NFC playoffs. You know, Rogers, to me, would make Washington a legitimate Super Bowl contender out of the NFC, and I think he's going to do that for the Jets, although he's gotten, you know, I don't know how accountable and how reliable he is anymore, but he's still great. But, yeah, no, that's the easy answer on Lamar Jackson. Well, I'm glad I asked that, and thank you, because that's something that I will say, I did not know. I think mistakenly I, from the relative distance at which I said, I was thinking

Snyder on his way out, if there's anything that he seems to have demonstrated, is that he doesn't mind, not only doesn't mind, but actually seems to enjoy pissing off all the other owners. And what better way to leave, you know, with his middle finger extended at all of them than to upend their apple cart by signing this huge guaranteed contract, which he knows all the rest of them so desperately don't want to have to deal with, and then he walks out the door and it isn't his problem. So that was sort of how I looked at it, but that's, I'm glad I asked, because now you've explained to me that I was seeing it completely wrong. And so what you say makes sense. Yeah, well, actually, what you described is, you know, it doesn't, it's not nonsensical

by any stretch of the imagination, but it's just so much cash out of pocket that they're just not in position to do that right now. So there you go. Let's get to your book, because I actually think that this is the kind of book that I would actually love. It's called Got Your Number, the Greatest Sports Legends, and the Numbers They Own. You and Paul Hembo wrote this book. Tell everybody what the book's about, and then I've got some questions about some of these Jersey numbers. Yeah, thank you. So it started with Jersey numbers. It started because a bunch of us were sitting around after the get-up show one day, and the subject turned to how many Hall of Fame

quarterbacks all wore the jersey number 12. So it started with Namath, and then it's Roger Staback and Terry Bradshaw and Bob Greasy and Ken Stabler and Jim Kelly and soon to be Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady. And that's the conversation. And someone in the room said, yeah, Greenie, they all wore 12, but who owns the number 12? Now, I'll tell you that I've written a few books in my life, but I've never written a sports book, and the reason is I never had what I thought was a good enough idea. Literally in that moment, it was like a light bulb went off over my head. And on my drive home that day, I called Hembo, who's been doing my research for 15 years,

he's the best in the business. And I said, I have this idea. We decide who owns every number from one to 100. You do the research. I'll do the writing, and there's the book. Terrific. So in our first meeting, we sat down and I realized, am I about to do a book about the greatest legends in sports history that doesn't include Muhammad Ali and Billy Jean King and Serena Williams and Tiger Woods and Jack Nichols.

That doesn't make sense. So we realized we needed to come up with creative ways to give numbers to athletes that didn't have jersey numbers. And that was part of the fun. And so we chose every number from one to 100 is now owned by someone or some group of people in sports history. And not all of them are jersey numbers. In fact, I'll give you an example of that. So if everyone listening to this conversation right now, if I asked you the question, what is the all-time record from most points scored in an NBA game and who holds it?

I would guess everyone could say it's Will Chamberlain and it's 100. And if I then said to all those same people, okay, and what jersey number did he wear, I bet you almost none of them know that he wore number 13. So in the book, Will Chamberlain owns 100, not 13, because that's the number that he's associated with. That's the number that he owns. That's the number that he deserved to have as his. until the end of time. So we assigned those numbers from one to 100. I wrote up 100, very short chapters. Each of them are like two or three pages with excellent research from Hembo. I promise,

no matter how knowledgeable a sports fan you are, that at least once per chapter, so at least a hundred times reading this book, you will come across something that makes you say, wow, I didn't know that. And so the book is a little bit of sports debate and a little bit of sports history, and in that regard, hopefully a lot of fun. So who got 13, Marine? So 13 is Dan Marino, yes. And that would have been a tough choice. If we didn't have an obvious other option for Chamberlain, that would have been a tough choice. I'll give you another one, that Joe DiMaggio, I think when people think of Joe DiMaggio today, they think of the number 57. Right. They think of the 56th game hitting street, which I think is at this point with the way

the home run records have been largely discredited. I think that Cal Ripkin's consecutive of game streak and DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak are the two most beloved and revered records in all of American sports. And so I wanted to give DiMaggio 56. L.T. But Lawrence Taylor is 56. Yeah, right. And Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defensive player that ever lived.

So I gave LT 56 and I gave Demasio 5. But if, you know, that's my point is that those were the kind of decisions that I had to make. And every now and again, it meant I had to leave some people out of the book. And that's where the debate part comes in because. you're going to disagree with some of the decisions I made. And that is part of the beauty of all of this. You know, in sports, we disagree, we debate, we see things differently, and I made my choices. We defend them with all of this incredible research, but there are going to be some. You're going to say, no way greedy, you're full of it. I completely disagree. It should have been

this person or that person, and that is half the fun of the book. So maybe this is one and the same as far as a question goes, but what was the biggest disagreement? on a number. And also, and maybe this is the same thing, what was the number that generated the most possible answers? Well, so disagreement, you know, I wouldn't say we really disagreed on anything. I mean, at the end of the day, we sat down, we went through all the options. It was me making the decision. So there wasn't much of that. That said, there were some that were brutal, brutal, not so much for how many choices they were, but for how close together they were. So let me give you an example.

Should the number 21, if this was your book, Kevin, would it be, would 21 be Tim Duncan? Would it be Dion Sanders or would it be Roberto Clementi? I guess because of the championships, it would probably be Duncan. I'm trying to think of any other 21s. It's not a, it's not one of the all-time, you know, know, great numbers worn by players. I'm trying to think of anybody to come, like Dominic Wilkins comes to mind as a 21 for me, but that's not Tim Duncan. It would be Tim Duncan. I think it would be Duncan. So again, Tim Duncan, when I put this up for my listeners, they chose Dion Sanders.

But we gave that number to Roberto Clemente, and I will tell you why. Because I think that Duncan, Dion and Clemente were pretty close to equal in terms of the greatness of their careers. Maybe you could argue that Duncan's greatness is slightly higher in his sport than Clemente's and his, but it would be by a tiny margin. But the contribution that Roberta Clementi made to the game of baseball, I think you can make a very good argument that he's one of the five most important people in baseball history. He is the grandfather, a godfrey. father of Latin American baseball, changed this sport completely and forever with that.

He also, and I don't think this is as widely known because it just doesn't get as much attention, everybody knows that football's humanitarian award is the Walter Payton Man of the Year award. Baseball's humanitarian award to this day is the Roberto Clementi Award because of all that he did for philanthropy and up to it, including the way he died, delivering supplies to, you know, the war-torn people in Nicaragua. because of his, the larger than life nature of him, we gave Clemente 21. But those are the kind of decisions we have to make.

That was one of the hardest. And again, some may disagree. You might say Duncan. Others might say Dion. And that's fine. I can't tell you you're wrong. We made the decisions we made. And if you read the book, you'll see.

And maybe I can change her mouth. Yeah, I mean, I think as you were talking, I can see the case for Clemente. I think I can see the case for Dion, too, because you can see. could make the case that Dion is the greatest cornerback that's ever lived. And I don't think you can say that about Duncan, but Duncan was such a winner. So that's why I guess my inclination was first on that. The 32 debate that you had the other day, I mean, there's so many 32s. But it's funny, even though I'm the biggest Magic Johnson fan of all time. And by the way, Magic Johnson may end up becoming part owner of the football team here. And I think that would be great. But

But to me, it's Jim Brown. He's the, you know, in football, Greenie, it's like there's no debate about Jim Brown. He is, for every, you know, generation, people will say he's the greatest football player pound for pound that's ever lived. He's the greatest running back that's ever lived. But he's the greatest football player that's ever lived. It's funny how you get into these football position debates. Jerry Rice and Jim Brown are the two that never get debated. Greatest running back, greatest receiver of all times.

So to me, that was an easy one. It was Jim Brown. But you guys debated that pretty well. Yeah, the guys on GetUp did a great job. Buster only made a good case for Sandy Kofax and Tim Legler made a good case for Magic Johnson. And look, both of those guys are historically great players and larger than life legends. But we did choose Jim Brown in the book. And I agree with you.

He is the greatest. You could definitely make the argument that, that he is the best football player that ever lived. The numbers are ridiculous. If you expect, he remains to this day the only running back to average over 100 yards rushing per game. Right. If he played in 17 games seasons, he would have averaged 1,773 yards per season. And he retired before he turned 30 years old.

So if he had played the full arc of a career, if he had played another four or five years, then he probably would have set records that would not have been broken to this day despite the fact that they played five more games per season now than they did when he played. Remember, he was playing in 12 games season, not even 14. So, yes, we did give

32 to Jim Brown, but that's an unbelievable number, largely because of Brown, because Jim Brown wore 32, so many other running back did, including O.J. Simpson and Franco Harris and many others. Marcus Allen. And then his co-facted Magic. Magic also did not wear

it's worth noting Magic did not wear that number in college. 33, right? 33 at Michigan State. And then when he got to the Lakers, that was Kareem's number. So he did not wear 32 in college, which also factored in for me. Yeah. The book, it's called Got Your Number, The Greatest Sports Legends and the numbers they own. It's available on Disney Books, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and More.

Mike Greenberg's book, it sounds like a really good read because of, all of the debates and arguments, it'll spark. Best of luck with it, and really appreciate you doing this. Well, I appreciate you having me. I hope everybody enjoys it. Reception to this has been far bigger and greater than I imagined. It feels like people are doing exactly what I hoped, which is debating this in exactly the way that you and I have just been doing,

and we have been doing on TV and radio. So thanks very much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's my pleasure, Mike. Take care. Thanks again. Thank you. I enjoyed that with Mike Greenberg.

And there was a part or two that if you want to listen to it in its entirety from the radio interview, just go to the team 980.com or download the Odyssey app. All right, we are done for the day. Enjoy the weekend. I'll be back on Monday.