The Kevin Sheehan Show - Josh Rosen To Antonio Brown?

Episode Date: March 4, 2019

Lots of Redskins-related rumors and reports came out of Indy this weekend and Kevin talked about all of them. Antonio Brown to the Redskins? Josh Rosen to the Redskins? JP Finlay was at the Indy Combine and called in with his thoughts on Brown, Rosen, and the latest report that the Skins might be interested in Ryan Tanneyhill. Chris Cooley did a Josh Rosen film breakdown and discussed whether or not he thinks the Skins should trade for him. He also weighed in on whether or not the Skins should deal for Antonio Brown. The Cooley portion of the show begins at the 1:28:08 mark. Kevin recapped the Maryland-Michigan game too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I am here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them we told you to call. J.P. Finley was at the Indy Combine. He's back. We'll talk to him in a few minutes. Chris Cooley will call in as well. I asked him to do a film breakdown of Josh Rosen. He's also got additional quarterbacks that he's done, but I asked him to do Rosen, so we'll get his thoughts on Josh Rosen this morning as well. Maryland lost to Michigan.

I'll do a recap of that. The Caps had a really good weekend. They won yesterday, Aaron, in a shootout, actually turned it on right in time for the overtime, and Ovechkin in the shootout gets the game winner in New York against the Rangers when the goalie threw the stick at the puck. And initially they called it no goal.

Gotta love replay. Yeah, got to love replay. They get a win over the Rangers and they got the Islanders on Friday. So the caps have now won four in a row, six of their last seven. They're back and first in the Metropolitan with just 16 games left in the season.

The Wizards won last night, 135 to 121. Bobby Portis went for 26 points and 12 rebounds. I like him. I like his potential. Their defense, though, it's still, it's so bad. They won the game over Minnesota. But as I said last week, I don't need advanced numbers to tell me what my eyes tell me, which is they're not just a bad defensive team. They are a disinterested defensive team. That's coaching to a certain degree. Disinterested. They got scored on at will last night. Minnesota just missed a bunch of of threes. But the loss in Boston, actually, Friday night really irked me a little bit. And I might

get to that later on in the show. Maybe. I might. Nobody really cares. But I'm going to start the show, however, with the Redskins who have been in the news all weekend long, with rumors and reports flying out of Indianapolis at the Combine, which I actually did watch some of it. Not a lot of it. But in order, Antonio Brown on Friday to the Redskins, Josh Rosen in a trade to the Redskins over the weekend, and then Ryan Tannahill. I can dismiss that one right now. That made no sense to me. That came out of Miami. The Redskins are not going to have Ryan Tannahill on their roster this year at $18 million.

It's not even possible. But anyway, I'll take the other two in order as they were reported. We'll start on Friday with Antonio Brown. Adam Schaefter was the first to report that three teams had become the favorites to land Antonio Brown in a deal with the Steelers. And Schaefter reported that the Raiders, the Titans, and the Redskins had expressed the most interest so far and had the best chances of landing Brown in a deal with Pittsburgh. Schefter said the Steelers are looking for a first-round pick in this year's draft. Initially, they were looking for a first and something else.

Apparently, they have resigned themselves to a first. The Raiders have three first round picks, number four overall, number 24, and number 27 overall. Remember, they got Chicago's first rounder and Dallas's first rounder for Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper, respectively. The Titans have the 19th overall, and of course the Redskins have number 15 overall. If Schaefter's report is true, I would assume that the Raiders aren't giving up number four overall for Antonio Brown, which means they're really working with 24 and 27. And that would make, in terms of compensation, if the Redskins are willing to give up number 15 overall, probably put the Redskins into the best spot. I don't think the Raiders are going to give up number four overall for Antonio Brown. Now, could they give up 24 and something else?

that ends up being more attractive, I guess. The Titans 19th isn't better than the Redskins 15th. And beyond that, remember, we read last week, it was reported that the Steelers would really prefer to trade Antonio Brown to an NFC team. So of the three teams, apparently, to have expressed much of the interest, the Redskins are the only one of the three that are an NFC team. look if the skins are legitimately interested in Antonio Brown and by the way his new blonde mustache have you seen that

I did see that for a media person in this town if it were to happen it would be a dream as a fan of the team I don't really want him and I'm going to get into to the why but I don't really want him of course he would help Of course he would help. But for how much and for how long? And what's it going to cost you? In my view, Antonio Brown is worth a game or two. Two max. So you go from six wins to seven wins, maybe eight.

He's also going to be 31 years old. He's going to become more expensive to keep as he gets older. And more likely than not, his best years are very soon going to be behind him. Beyond that, he's played for one of the best organizations in football, and he's unhappy. He's played with one of the best quarterbacks in the league, a Hall of Fame quarterback, and he's unhappy. What's he going to be in a truly dysfunctional organization like the Redskins? What's he going to be in a place that for now doesn't have a quarterback anywhere near Ben Rathesberger's capability? What's he going to be in a place that doesn't have anywhere near the weapons the Steelers have had in recent years on offense?

He's already, let's just say at the very least, all right? At the very least, he's quirky and unpredictable. All right, that would be the nice way of describing Antonio Brown's personality. The more harsh way and perhaps the more accurate description would be to say he's a disruptive personality. but this team has had, let's remember, we've had some outspoken, sometimes unhappy, sometimes unreliable, sometimes disruptive players in recent years. The list, Sweringer, Zach Brown, Mason Foster, Josh Norman, Deshawn Jackson wasn't as easy as some of you think. I'm not saying all of these players have been major problems.

I'm just saying at various points in time, we've had, you know, a tweet here, a comment here, a report here. You know, the Deshawn Jackson thing, just so you know for those of you that think that, you know, it worked out with Deshawn Jackson, I can tell you that they did have some issues with Deshawn Jackson at times. First of all, as overall, you know, availability was a problem at times. But anyone in the know will tell you that they had a major problem with Deshawn Jackson

in the week leading up to the biggest game of the year in 2016, that decisive giant game at FedEx Field on January 1st where they had to win to get into the playoffs. And it was according to people that I've talked to over the years, and I've mentioned this before, it was a disruptive week in practice for the offense as it related to Deshawn Jackson. And there were issues defensively too with a guy like Breeland,

Remember Breeland. They had some issues with him. The point is the culture is already vulnerable to attitude. The owner is clueless. The team president is arrogant and not as smart as he thinks he is. And the head coach is totally go along to get along and appears to be the lamest of ducks heading into 2019. Look, Antonio Brown's really good. I get it. He's a game changer.

I'm not missing out on how good he is or how much a team like the Redskins would potentially benefit from his presence on the field. I get it. But what's the real upside? Another win? Another two wins maybe? So if you go with, you know, six, six and a half is the over-under for wins in 2019, which is about where it's going to be, what does he do to that number?

Makes it a game better? I don't think he makes it two games better. He's been with a Hall of Fame quarterback and he was unhappy. What's it going to be like here if Colt McCoy and Josh Johnson are the quarterbacks? Now that may change too, and we'll get to that in a moment. No thank you for Antonio Brown. Not for number 15 overall in this draft. If you tell me he's available for a second or a package of, say, a second and a fourth,

all right, I'm in, I'm in. But not 15 overall for a 31-year-old that you're going to have to pay dearly just a hope beyond hope that you can keep him happy. The risk of it not working out, all right? The risk of three years from now, after they deal for him, all of us looking back and wishing that they hadn't done it, is high. It's high.

And again, what's the reward? What's the upside? Is he going to make you a playoff team next year? Probably not. Is he going to make you a Super Bowl contender within two to three years? Probably not. because that's more likely than not his window. I don't see it.

And again, if the market for Antonio Brown, and if it becomes, if it dries up and you can get them for a lot less than a first rounder, your number 15 overall, it's a different conversation. Yet you almost have to have that to really have a conclusive, definitive feeling as you discuss it today, you've got to know what you're giving up. If you told me today, they just had to give up their second rounder,

or they had to give up a package of two-thirds and a conditional late-round pick. I'm in. I mean, I know what they would have with him on the field this year, even with Colt McCoy a quarterback. You know, as Coley said, you can throw him bubbles. You don't need a lot of time for him to do his damage. I saw this stat that John Kime put out, and sometimes I find these numbers to be completely irrelevant,

but this one was really interesting. With Antonio Brown on the field for Pittsburgh over the last few years, the Steelers have averaged, I think it's 4.5 yards per carry, and without them on the field, they've averaged 2.6 yards per carry. and that's what you do. You can't load up a box to stop the run when you've got a guy like Antonio Brown on the field. I'm not a fool.

I understand he's a difference maker. But at that position, as we've seen over the years, you know, what is that difference? Is it the difference between a six-win team, which is really what it looks like the Redskins are right now, a six-or-seven win team? You know, maybe worse, more likely worse better than seven or six. Does it make them a playoff team? I don't think so. Does it make them a contender?

Absolutely not. It doesn't. They're not close. They are not close. However, if the Redskins are interested in Antonio Brown, if the report is true, it does say a lot about what's going on in Ashburn right now. And I'm going to get to that in a few minutes because I want to talk about Josh Rosen next. The second report that came out over the weekend involved the Redskins and Josh Rosen. It came from Tony Pauline, actually, from Draftanalyst.com. Tony's been a guest. Tommy found Tony Pauline.

I know he did because no one had ever had Tony Pauline on any show. And Tommy called me up, this is six or seven years ago, maybe even longer than that. Have you heard of Tony Pauline? I love reading him about the draft. And I said, well, can he talk? Would he be a good good? guest. I don't know. Let's try him. So we tried him. And then we had Tony Pauline on every year

leading up to the draft, usually at least twice a year. And he's really good. And he does a good job. And he always had a sense of this particular team, too, more than other teams. But anyway, his report over the weekend that came out said that while plenty of teams are willing to trade for Rosen. The Redskins are the team that has spoken openly during the Combine Week about trading for Rosen should he be available. Now, I wonder, honestly, how many teams really would be in the Josh Rosen market? You know, there aren't a lot of teams right now that are desperate for a quarterback that wouldn't have a chance early in the draft to take one. I mean, Miami's probably going to need a quarterback. By the way, they've already, apparently the reports are already that they are not

interested in Josh Rosen, nor is Cincinnati. Denver got Flacco. I think Denver might draft somebody, possibly. All right? We know the team, the Giants are going to be looking for somebody, potentially. After that, you know, it's Arizona going to take Kyler Murray. And, you know, right now what we're learning about some of the discussion is that Kyler Murray is probably going number one to Arizona.

All right. And if we believe the reports, the Redskins are. looking to make an off-season splash. That's what I'm going to get to in a moment. But first on Rosen. I liked Rosen at UCLA. I liked him a lot at UCLA. I thought he was a competitive badass. That's what I loved about him. He was a risk taker. He had a bunch of big-time comebacks and big throws and clutch situations. He was also hurt. Some of the time, but when he was Aaron being bandied about, you know, after, after his freshman years, a future number one, number one overall, I mean, I liked Rosen. I always would, whenever UCLA was on,

I would try to watch them. And I liked Rosen. And last year, his numbers, his rookie season, are horrible. Like, he had a terrible statistical year. But I did do something. But I did do something. thing, you know, early this morning. I got on to my NFL league pass, and I watched it very early this morning, woke up at 4 a.m. this morning, don't ask me why. That's another story. Thank you, my dog. And I watched three or four games in which the Cardinals were in the games. There was a game at Arrowhead. They were actually in it against Kansas City. They were in it and had a chance to beat the Raiders. Watched a couple of his games. The Cardinals were horrendous offensively up front.

They did have last year, they had some playmakers. They had Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk, who was their second round pick, I think. Yeah. He's going to be a really good player. And by the way, David Johnson last year, at times looked like David Johnson. Oh, yeah. It was also towards the end of the year after they made the O.C. switch. Yes.

So he, you know, there was definitely an emphasis to try to stay balanced with him. and not get him into bad down in distance. There was a lot of screen in the Cardinals' offense with Rosen. He threw the checkdown a lot and a lot of third and longs. It was clear. Throw the check down. We'll punt. We'll be okay.

But he also had that same thing that he had at UCLA, where he took a lot of chances with a lot of throws. And because of it, he threw a lot of picks. You know, he fumbled a bunch and he throws picks. Understand that about Josh Rosen. You know, watching Rosen, there is some Kirk cousins in him in terms of the way he plays the position. The big difference is, I think, just that Rosen's a bit more of a competitive, you know, risk taker. That would be the difference in sort of watching him.

He's bigger than Kirk, too. But he can make, look, he can make all the throws. He has very good feel. This is my view. We're going to get Cooley on, so Cooley's opinion is much more valuable. But to me, he's got good feel, good movement in the pocket. He's smart. He's competitive. He's not going to kill you with his legs as a runner.

But he's going to create more time as a thrower. He's going to make mistakes. He's going to throw picks. He's going to fumble because he's going to take some chances. You know, the Cardinals weren't very good, so it is hard on some level to really measure his year. And I would not measure it based on statistics. That's not the mistake I would make. So if you have people reading his box scores to you and reading his overall statistics,

and that's how you're going to evaluate him, that's a mistake. You got to watch him. And you've got to watch him at UCLA too. You know, because essentially you're comparing him to all of the other rookie quarterbacks that you could draft. That's what you're doing. Josh Rosen, if you're thinking about trading for him, is essentially where would he be on this year's draft board for quarterbacks? and the overall draft board. Where would he be? That's how you have to evaluate him, which by the way makes it very important

from my perspective, that Jay Gruden evaluates him. I do not want this to be a Bruce Allen or Dan Snyder evaluation. God, help us, if that's what it is. The risk with Rosen is what you heard coming out

and you have to do due diligence on this stuff. You've got to find out, Is he too smart for his own good? Is he too arrogant for his own good? You know, he's had some injuries. He's had some concussions. His father's a doctor. He comes from affluence.

He might be one of these guys that will become very interested in other things and interested to a level where he's not as interested in being a football player. You need to know that football means everything to him. You need to know that he wants to play football and wants to be great over a 10 to 15 year period of time. I like Josh Rosen, though. I think he's smart. I think he's competitive. I think the numbers last year were not a result or reflective of his ability. He made some bad throws and made some bad plays. He was also under siege immediately on many plays. So they had to use play action. They had to screen. They had to use quick game. I think Jay Gruden would be a good fit for him.

You know, there's a little bit of a comparison potentially to Andy Dalton, but he's bigger than Dalton. They're not getting Kyler Murray in the draft. After this weekend, they're not getting Drew Locke. You know, that was a guy that I spent some time talking about. He's the guy that I liked. I'm most intrigued by Murray, but of the other guys, I can't stand Haskins. I think he's a bust, but I've always liked Locke this year. You know, going back to early podcasts. Locke was the guy that I thought, you know, he could be a guy that if the Redskins took him, I wouldn't be unhappy with. And apparently he blew people away with interviews and other things at the combine. In fact, Cooley's going to be on with us, and Cooley's going to tell you that there's no

chance that Locke isn't the second quarterback taken. And that wasn't going to surprise me, and it wouldn't surprise me. Cooley, I think, is going to say that it's going to be Murray and then Locke in the top five, and then somebody will make a mistake. stake on Haskins. Anyway, on Rosen, the other big part of this is what's the compensation for him. You know, if the market's limited for him, it does create the opportunity that you may not have to give up number 15 overall to get him. You may not.

This will be an interesting thing as it relates to Rosen. And maybe the Cardinals, if they don't get somebody. to offer up a first rounder, we'll just keep them. What's wrong with having two rookie quarterbacks on rookie contracts? Or a second year quarterback and a rookie quarterback. You know, now, that's not going to make the situation for Rosen very good. If you take Kyler Murray number one overall, Rosen wants to play. And Rosen got an opportunity last year to play.

You know, there have to be relationships that can be leveraged to get more information. And then you've got to be shrewd. Now, Bruce, he doesn't like to pay for anything, all right? And he's been good at not overpaying for things. You know, the Griffin deal aside. Actually, the McNabb deal on some levels was a bigger risk and a worse trade than even the Griffin deal, because you knew what you had with McNabb. Anyway, I, yeah, I think that there's a chance that you don't have to get.

give up number 15 overall. I think there's a chance that that's in play. And so then you're talking about could you get Antonio Brown for a package of a second and a fourth? Could you get Rosen for next year's second and two thirds this year or both of your thirds this year? You know, like if you took they have two thirds this year, right? So it's a second, two thirds and no fourth I think is the it played out. So could you get A, B, for a second, and a fifth, or, you know, and could you get Rosen for two-thirds? Like, now you're talking about something that's a little bit more getable, but anyway, I, number 15 overall, seems steep to me for Rosen. What if it was 15 but getting like a third back with Rosen? Or, you know, the other thing that hasn't been mentioned is what

if it's for players. Right. You know, so who do you have? Well, you've got some players. You've got, you know, if you bring in Rosen, you certainly don't want to get rid of Trent Williams. Right. But you could get rid of Ryan Carrigan.

You know, there are pieces there potentially that could be attractive. So we have to sort this thing out in terms of what it would cost. Now, overall, you know, the news that, in these rumors and these rumors and these stories that are coming out about the Redskins being involved, you know, here in March, you know, in March now, right? Friday was March first, right? It's March. This is March. And remember, I did this whole, you know, thing on a show, I don't know, a month and a half ago now, maybe, where I said, if Dan Snyder's going to continue to be one of the worst owners in sports, he might as well go back to doing it his own way and have some fun in March and win the offseason

and create some buzz. I think that the Rosen thing is indicative of, A, they don't really feel good about Alex Smith, which I don't think is a revelation, but you've heard a lot of the discussion from Jay Gruden and Bruce Allen and even Doug Williams in recent weeks where they haven't given up on Alex Smith. You know, maybe not for 2019, but for 2020.

Well, if you make a trade for Josh Rosen, the Alex Smith era is over, right? It's over. I actually thought when I read the Antonio Brown thing on Friday, and coupling that with the conversation that Bruce had with reporters at Indianapolis on Friday, I started thinking about they're going to sign a free agent quarterback. They're going to have Colt, and then they're going to bring in somebody like Ryan Fitzpatrick for a one-year deal for $8 million with incentives or something.

And the two of them are going to compete it out, and they're going to try to make a move for Antonio Brown, and it'll either be Fitzpatrick or McCoy next year with Alex Smith on the Pupp list. And I'm not discounting that either. Look, they may not be able to get Rosen. Rosen may be too expensive. There may be another team that offers something more.

They may not be able to get Rosen, but if we believe the report that they are speaking openly, which I hate when they speak openly about anything. But that they are actually, let's just say that they are feeling out the possibility of Rosen. It says Alex Smith is done. It says we still don't feel great about Colt McCoy, or at least Bruce and Dan don't.

But it also says something else. It says this, that they really are feeling the desperation and the pressure to make something happen. You know, for all of the talk, a lot of it that I have subscribed to and initiated some of it, about them being totally clueless and totally detached from reality with their talk of being close.

Here's a reality that they have not been able to ignore. Their business has taken a beating. Sure, the TV money keeps coming in for all of these NFL teams. No one's ever going to be poor. But the revenue that the teams themselves get to keep, you know, gate, concessions, parking, merchandise, all that stuff. For the Redskins, it's a shrinking number. A shrinking number.

They've taken a hit, and there's no possible way that is detached and clueless as they tend to be, and I think they are on many, many levels. The revenue thing has not been overlooked by the owner. He and Bruce may be out there in Loudoun County, walking into one Loudoun, into a restaurant getting patted on the back by a bunch of people with HTTR, you know, tattoos on their arms. But the masses that they've lost in Montgomery and Fairfax and PG and downtown where a younger generation is working, living, and going out in places like Shaw and Logan

and Petworth, these people are gone, long gone. They're not even watching games anymore, let alone attending them. generations of potential Redskin fans have been lost. The generation that grew up and lived through the years where they won and won with smarts and one with class, you know, they're not interested as much anymore. Snyder sees these numbers. He can do a year-to-year comparative. It's not good.

And by the way, there's no easy answer. Oh, we'll just raise the prices of tickets or we'll charge for. parking at training camp. No one's going to training camp. I mean, have you been down there? Have you seen the crowds for training camp? You can't upsell or upcharge a customer that isn't interested in showing up. Bruce Allen, Doug Williams, Jay Gruden, the faces and voices we've heard from in recent weeks may not seem desperate, but their boss might be. he needs that old Dan Snyder off-season sizzle. The old go-to move may be in again.

Antonio Brown, trade for Josh Rosen, you know, by the way, both of those things happening in this off-season seem impossible. I mean, somebody's going to want too much and they're not going to have it. But can you imagine Rosen, Antonio Brown, I mean, Snyder would be in. in there all 5 foot 7, 5 foot 8 of them in that ticket sales office and with that ticket sales team pushing them on the phones. He wouldn't let them leave until they've generated a shitload of new business. Nothing would excite him more than a couple of big sellable assets. Get that Antonio Brown number 84 jersey onto the website immediately and into every store possible in town.

Can you see him working his way through that building screaming and yelling, Antonio Brown and Josh Rosen? Because at some point he's looking at Bruce and Jay and Doug, and he's thinking, I let you numb nuts do it your way, and you got me into an eight-figure annual revenue loss. I'm doing it my way again. Antonio Brown, 84's everywhere in town. I want Kyler Murray, damn it, but I guess I can't get him.

Let's get Rosen. I mean, look, he was in Indy over the weekend. He was in Indy looking for action. He's looking for action, guys. And look, part of it's going to work for me and everybody in the media. And I did say, and made that rant a month and a half ago saying, he might as well do it his way because his way isn't going to be any worse. than what old, you know, Bruce has been able to do, you know,

basically underpaying everybody, but everybody that he signs is average at best. Snyder couldn't care less if Antonio Brown leads the team to more wins right now. He's got to erase an eight-figure revenue loss here in the last few years. He cares about an immediate buzz and a revenue increase. Again, I sort of advocated for this a few months back, so I'm not going to be hypocritical and say that if he does it this way, that it's wrong, because the other way isn't working either. You know, maybe he realizes if I'm going to suck, I'm going to suck doing it my way.

It was more fun the way it used to be when old Vinny and I were, you know, stop watching players running 40s at Indy. And I was handling the meetings and I was making the calls. And I said, let's get on, you know, Redskins won and go get us some alps. Albert Haynesworth, Samada Marcholetta, Samantuan Randallel. No on Antonio Brown for me. Be fun, but I don't think it would be... Again, you need the context of what you'd have to give up.

You really do before you make any sort of definitive conclusion on this stuff. But that's sort of the way I feel about Antonio Brown. I'd see a guy that just... Did you watch the ESPN interview with him? in his palatial estate. Yeah. And it was with Jeff Darlington, who actually did a good job with him. And I just see trouble.

I see trouble. And at that position, at that age, remember, Bruce has been consistent on one level when it comes to, you know, acquisitions. With the exception of Alex Smith, those players that he's acquired have been in their mid-20s, not their early 30s. Now maybe Dan's desperation is going to change the whole mindset here. And this is what's going to be interesting here about the next month or so, maybe sooner, is did the Redskins have a sit down and did Dan say to Bruce,

I really appreciate you and I respect you and you've done a lot for me, but I can't live with getting great deals on average players anymore. We have a major revenue deficit. We have a major business problem. We have lost too many customers. What used to work in the olden times is when we started to lose some customers, we just dialed up a big March in April. That's what we did.

And guess what? It worked. I don't think it'll work the way it used to work, but it would provide some sizzle. That it would do. J.P. Finley is going to join us. We're going to talk about the, we're going to do some film breakdown,

excuse me, with Cooley as well. Cooley's going through Josh Rosen stuff, because I really want Cooley's view on Rosen. I think the Rosen thing, the most interesting part of the Rosen thing, if it's true, is what is the real market for him? You know, your automatic default would be, okay, well, he was number 10 overall a year ago. He played on a terrible team with a bad offense.

So wouldn't he go number 15 this year? But if there's no market for him right now, you know, you don't want to be in a position where you're the only bidder and you overpay. Like Josh Rosen, if they're going to draft Kyler Murray, may be available for a second. may be available for next year's second and a third this year. If you've got to give up a second to get Antonio Brown. Right now, if you told me which of the two players are you going to have to give up number 15 overall for? If you give up that first round pick, I would say it's for Antonio Brown. Now, his behavior, he may be shrinking his market also.

You know, but I would think that I could see the Raiders in on Antonio Brown. They didn't have enough at that position. You know, John Gruden's got to do something here in year two. The Titans would be really interesting, you know, to put, because the Titans actually were not a bad team this year. Remember, they won a playoff game the year before, and it came down to that game against Indianapolis where they did not have, they had Blaine Gabbard starting, right,

in the game to make the playoffs at the air, at the end of the year? Right. It was Gabbard. Am I correct about that? I think so. It sounds right. I think it was Gabbard.

It wasn't because Marriota was out. But that is a, that's a team that has, in my view, a budding star at wide receiver in Corey Davis. Imagine Corey Davis with Antonio Brown with Derek Henry and Dionne Lewis and Marcus Marietta. You know, it's a dynamic offense. It's a more run-based offense. Do they still have Delaney Walker? I don't know if they have still. Unless his contract ran out this year, he's still on the team.

I mean, you've got to look at teams. Like Tennessee is much closer than Washington, obviously. Like, that's not even an argument for a reasonable football fan. They have much more on defense overall, and they have a better offensive situation. Even though it's not a great offense, it's a better situation than the Redskins have. It is. I actually think Brable did a decent job, too, with that team. Okay, I want to do a, before we get JP on, I want to do a quick Maryland, Maryland, Michigan recap.

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Get two free for every two you buy. Buy four, get four free with no limit plus nothing down. And you'll have no payments and no interest for one full year. 866N90 Nation or Windonation.com and tell them that I sent you. All right. Maryland, Michigan. You were there. I was not actually yesterday. Long story. But anyway, I watched, and it was a very disappointing game for me as a fan. I would assume that you're very disappointed as well. We're both alums and both massive Maryland basketball fans. It just

seemed like the kind of game that they would win. I thought they would win. I really did going into it. I wasn't as sure as, you know, on Friday, because even with that short line and I, I think I tweeted this out to somebody. I was, oh no, Murray called me. Murray said, you got to love Maryland. They're favored now. And they went off as a one-point favorite. And I said, I like them, but I'm not totally convinced.

And the one problem I've had with this Michigan matchup is that, for whatever reason, B-line seems to have Maryland really figured out, you know, defensively. But it's a disappointing win. And I'm not going to take Turgeon off the hook for this, okay? I know that he said after the game. they've improved. They got better. And all of that may be true.

And here's the one thing I will concede right now, and I've said this before, if you're not at practice every day and you don't have all the information, you can really tend to exaggerate what's going on here. I mean, Maryland fans, I rate yesterday. It's all about Turgeon, you know, with every fan. It's not all about Turgeon for me, not yesterday. You know, not against B-Line in Michigan. Michigan's a better team.

They are a better team, period. End of story. On yesterday's game, the biggest difference in the game is that Xavier Simpson was the best player on the floor, and the player that Maryland needed to be very good to beat Michigan wasn't good, Anthony Cowan. In fact, it was one of Cowan's worst games in some time. And I love Simpson. I said this on Friday, and I said it on Twitter yesterday, that a key to the game was to stop him from probing and creating and making things easier for his team,

which is what he does. He's a really good point guard. He's better than Anthony Cowan. There's no doubt, and he completely outplayed Anthony Cowan. Now, it's an IALA comparison, too, because IA is a point guard as much as Cowan is. You know, Cowan plays off the ball a lot. But your two junior key backcourt players, Xavier Simpson played great, and Anthony Cowan didn't, and there were other reasons that they lost the game, but that was the number one reason. The other reasons they lost the game. Just come down to a lot of things that I keep saying over and over again, and that is, I don't get it. I don't understand why Maryland, with some of the talent they have, don't have more talent than Michigan. They may have equal talent.

You know, the talent with Michigan, there's not a talent disparity. especially with Matthews out. They're arguably their best player or their second best player out yesterday. There's not a talent disparity, but Maryland's talent isn't better than Michigan's. Come on. They've got athletic,

they've got good players, long-armed, athletic wings, and Simpson is a maestro. How about the hook shots? If you hadn't seen him play, he does that all the time, in every game he plays in. He's got this 1950s hook shot.

going on that he always makes or always seems to make. But I just, I don't get, that was my phone. I don't get, and I've said it all year long, why Maryland prefers to play a grind it out, walk it up, lower possession game versus a push the tempo, higher possession game. I don't get it. Now it's easier said than done, all right? If I were having this conversation with Mark right now,

who I like very much, and I'm going to just say this, Mark's a good coach. He's not a terrible coach, Maryland fans. He's not. He's a good coach. There are, unfortunately, in the league he's in, better coaches. It's an incredible coaching league, the Big Ten. And this season, the Big Ten, I don't know that Maryland's ever played in a league that was this deep in any season that they had in the ACC,

where every single team can beat you on any night, can beat anybody on any night. We saw it again this weekend. You know, Rutgers going to Iowa and blowing out Iowa. Penn State should have beat in Wisconsin. Got a couple of horrible calls in Madison. But I don't, I just look at this team, and I think to myself, if you're going to settle for playing slow,

and trying to out-execute in the half-court. There are too many teams in this league and too many with the kind of talent and too many teams with exceptional coaching who scout really well that it's going to create a problem for you. And it has for Maryland all year. They go on scoring droughts like no one else does.

Seven and six last yesterday. Two points in the final seven minutes and 11 seconds of the first half. another six-minute stretch in the second half. And the reason why is they're getting nothing easy. They have to work and labor for everything they get and against a team like Michigan. And this is what I was going to say. Like if I said this to Mark,

he would look at me like I've got 10 eyes and he would say, do you watch Michigan? And I would say, yes, you're right. They get back on defense. It's hard to get anything against them. It's hard. It's so hard to get anything against Michigan. They're so well-coached.

They get back. They defend exceptionally well. They have you scouted so well. You see, every time Wiggins was in the game, they didn't give Wiggins any breathing room. None. He had two shot attempts. Why?

Because he couldn't get open. I don't love Maryland's half-court offense to begin with. I think they're an easy scout. I think that their best half-court offense is when it runs through Bruno. preferably in the post. He missed some shots over Teske, who's really good and has given him a problem. But Bruno should have, he was five for 13. He could have been eight for 13. Would have been a big difference in the game, you know, if he had made some of the looks. I wish Bruno would be a little bit more aggressive early when he gets it. I think he's sometimes,

remember last year he wasn't patient. Now this year he's too patient almost sometimes. But anyway, just that's a knit pick, you know, a small knit to pick. But I, I think their best half-court offense goes through Bruno because I think a lot of the other stuff they run, which results in, it doesn't rely on it. It results in a lot of dribble handoffs and a lot of ball screens on the perimeter without a lot of ball screens to create an opportunity for one of your, you know, ball handlers to get into the paint.

Marilyn just doesn't get into the paint with their wings and guards enough to create. At some point, less coaching, I think, would be better for this team. And more taking it out of the net and taking it off the rim and trying to play faster. Even if you face a Michigan team that's gotten back, at the very least, you're going to have more time offensively. Maryland puts themselves very often in a position where they're only left by the time they get the ball over half court with 19, 18 seconds left to initiate the offense. I mean, they grind it up, they crawl it up. and they cross the timeline with 22 or 21 seconds on the shot clock, and then they get into their offense,

and by the time they get into doing something, they're 15, 16 seconds left. At least if you play a little bit faster with a little bit more urgency, if you don't get something, you've got more time to run your offense. This is my frustration. I'm not at practice. I don't know if they even practice playing that way. My sense of it is they do not.

because when they do run on occasion, they are often not smooth running, which tells me it's not practiced a lot. They're not practicing what Izzo and Roy Williams and others practice, which is taking it out of the net and getting an entry pass from out of bounds to the three point line to one of their guards that can push it into the front court with still 26, 27 seconds left on the shot clock. with everybody sprinting into lanes with a trailer the whole thing, with a guard that can push, probe, get into the paint before they're totally set up defensively, kick back to a Wiggins who's trailing in transition. I just think they don't get enough easy looks. It's not in every game.

They've run some good half-court offense in some games, but against Michigan and Michigan State. some of these teams that scout well, that defend well, it's hard, man, for them to get looks. They had that stretch in the second half when Simpson went to the bench where they got some transition stuff. Morsell pushed it, had a three-point play in transition. Cowan pushed it and found sticks for a dunk. And then Cowan pushed it at another time and charged. It was a terrible play by Cowan.

He was just not good yesterday, really. That was one of the big things. It's very obvious at this point that if Bruno and Cowan aren't both on, this team's not going to be better teams. But I want to see Ayala play with more tempo. He's the slowest of them all. Now, I think he is better in their pick and roll game, you know, in their ball screen game. But Turgeon said something in the CBS interview before the game started to Dan Bonner. He said, we've got to really be prepared for their ball screen defense. They really do a great job with that.

And my answer to that would be, well, then let's run less ball screens. Let's space the floor. Let's figure out a way to get Anthony into the paint. And if you're going to run ball screens, get Anthony around it. Don't run a ball screen to set up a pass to the wing. They're not aggressive. They don't attack. They don't attack on defense.

They're a good defensive team. But one of the reasons that they don't turn people over a lot, by the way, would create more transition opportunities on offense. Four turnovers for Michigan yesterday. I mean, you're not a defensive team that creates offense off your defense. And part of that is they don't get in passing lanes. They're not aggressive enough. You know, they defend well, and they defend smartly.

They're a well-coached defensive team. Michigan played exceptional offense at the end of that game. And that ended up being the difference in the game. But it was Simpson was ultimately the difference in the game for them. But I guess the two things that I would say, and I know I'm beating the same dead horse over and over again when it comes to this team this year, is I don't like that they settle for a low possession game.

I think Maryland was 312th in average possessions per game, 276th in college basketball, I think, and average field goal attempts per game. It's not enough. Now, a lot of big 10 teams are at the bottom of those numbers because you get a lot of teams in this league to play that way doesn't mean you have to. I think they settle for that.

You know, 62 points is not enough. Against Michigan in their last three games, they have scored 24, 18, and 24 in the first half of three consecutive games against Michigan. That's not enough. They've got to score more. They have to score more. Now, part of me does think that they're going to get to the NCAA tournament

and they're not going to play teams that are familiar with them and that Maryland does have talent and that they may end up looking pretty good in a first round game or even a second round game. But some of the quotes, and Barry wrote about it this morning from Turgeon, and I know where he's coming from, and I feel, for him because he wanted yesterday badly. Electric environment, all of the old players back. The kind of game that Maryland just doesn't win enough anymore, and they used to all the time. I was going to say, that used to be a crowd win, even when the team wasn't playing, the crowd

willed them to a victory in the past. Sometimes with a much lesser team against a much better team. And these two teams, Michigan's better for a lot of reasons, okay? They are better at the point guard position. I think they're stronger on the bench. I do than Maryland in terms of coaching. But a lot of the stuff, you know, when Turgeon wants to tell you that they got better yesterday, I know as a coach he's telling you what he really believes. And by the way, they probably did. But you got to get some of these results now. You have to beat Michigan at home yesterday. That's a game you got to have. Somehow you've got to have that game. Somehow you've got to break some tendencies.

Somehow you've got to, you know, I heard him make a comment about how they didn't get, you know, they shot fewer free throws at home. Well, Michigan was in the paint more than Maryland was. Now, not Bruno. When they went Bruno on the post, fine. But Michigan's guards and wings were in the paint more. All right? And they had in the first half, nine offensive rebounds.

Bruno's been not as good as a defensive rebounder in the last three, four, five games. Maryland was a dominant rebounding team for the first half of the Big Ten schedule, maybe a little bit more than half. They have not been recently. Now they've played some bigger teams. Iowa's big. Michigan's got a guy like Teske, plus they got some real athleticism and they got wings with length. but Bruno should be not getting out rebounded in the first half. They had nine offensive rebounds.

And they didn't have sticks in the game. He got 2,000. He sat and then he played well at the beginning of the second half. I thought Morsell played well. You know, God, you want to talk about a player that would be a much more productive player offensively in an up-tempo offense. Darrell Morsell. Darrell Morsell would be Gary's.

he would be so good with the way Maryland played when Gary coached. You know, turning people over, trying to play fast, pressuring. You know, a lot of people will say, God, they should press more. Pressing's not easy. Michigan would turn Maryland's press into a dunk drill, into a layup drill. So I'm not advocating for a lot of full court pressure. You know, even Gary in those last few years wasn't pressing as much as he did. It's hard to recruit if you're going to press 90 feet, you know, 40 minutes a game.

Kids don't want to, at the AAU level, they don't do it. They don't want to do it. Disappointing win. And I just, I want, nothing's going to happen to Turgeon this year, but those of you that want it, it's not happening. Okay, they can't afford it. But I will say that if he doesn't get out of that first. weekend in March in the tournament, it's going to be a lot of, the noise will be as loud as it's been, because people, I think, have this sense and maybe we're delusional about what Maryland

basketball should be. I bet they think at times that the fan base is delusional, but they've won a national championship, they've been to multiple final fours, they've contended for league championships and tournaments and been to a hell of a lot of, you know, deep into tournament situations over the years. And I know you've got to go a long way back. But Turgeon's now, is this the seventh year or eighth year? I think it's the eighth. And they've been to one sweet 16. One sweet 16.

Got to get to that second weekend this year. If he gets this team to the second weekend this year, and I think he can, I think total, no pressure, no noise, all cool. I think if they get beat in the first. round like they did to Xavier a couple of years ago where they got muscled out of the first round. If they lose a second round game like they did to West Virginia a few years ago where they got muscled out of the second round. I think that's far more likely than losing in the first round this year. I think that there's just going to be a lot of noise. Some of it's justified. At the same time, I know what I know and I know what I don't know. I know that he does a lot of good

things. I know he recruits well. I know that they haven't stunk, not even once during his year. They're now going to be, you know, on a stretch of going to the tournament four times in five years. That's not terrible. My expectations, though, are, you know, when he has a team like this, this should be a team that should be peaking as a young team, not young anymore, right, 25 games in or whatever it is, 30 games in now. And it should be playing its best basketball when we get to March. I hope it is. I do have the concern, Aaron, that the, that the, The style of play will eventually catch up to them because you cannot, you know, average, whatever it is they're averaging recently. I mean, they can't even score 70 in these games.

You know, they scored 72 against Ohio State. That was their biggest output of the last month since the last time they played Ohio State. I mean, here's their run going back to the date that they played Michigan State, which was mid-January. or I think it was right around mid-January. 55 points, 67 points, 70 against Northwestern. Wee! 70. 61 against Wisconsin. 60 against Nebraska.

70 against Purdue. 52 against Michigan. 66 against Iowa. 72 against Ohio State. 61 against Penn State and 62 yesterday. This is a team that should be capable of scoring more than whatever that average of the last month and a half has been, somewhere in the low 60.

It just should be. It should be somewhere, it should be better than that. And it's a struggle. It's not aesthetically pleasing. I understand that too. You know, I do. For me, winning is all that matters. And he's won 21 games out of 30 this year. And he still has a chance to finish in the top four in the big 10, which would be a hell of a year. But it's what he does, you know, this getting better, we're getting better. It's got to produce results here over the next few weeks. Has to. Starts Friday night. This Minnesota game becomes an absolute must-have because without it, they're going to now, they're going to have to face somebody like Penn State. I was going to say it's, I think Penn State and Nebraska in the 12-13 right now. Yeah, and they're going to have to face them on Thursday night, and that's before you get to the quarterfinal Friday round.

And based on, you know, the success they've had in the Big Ten tournament, I wouldn't expect them to win that game. I'll be straight up honest. If that's the game, if it's Maryland, Penn State, or even. Maryland, Nebraska. I would not expect them to win on Thursday. There's some things this team has that other teams he's had recently don't have, which is why my expectations for this team are a little bit higher. All right, I think it's actually still, and I still believe this. This is his best chance to go deep, but they haven't had that marquee win yet. And yesterday, I think most Maryland fans

felt like it was going to happen, and it didn't. All right, let's bring in J.P. Fenley, who was at the Indy Combine all week long, all weekend long. He's back. He's home. Was it the Maryland game yesterday? Big Turp fan like I am as well. Let's just start with the two big stories that came out, and let's take them chronologically, and we'll start with the report from Schefter that the Redskins are one of the three teams,

along with the Titans and the Raiders, that are in the running and very interested in Antonio Brown. What do you think? I think a few things. I think the Raiders make just so much sense as the landing spot because they have the surplus of first round picks. But that said, the sure thing rarely happens in the NFL. I talked to one person in the organization that didn't really think it was going to happen,

but said, you know, there's a lot of reasons to like Antonio Brown, and they've been, the Redskins don't get enough out of the receiver position. Antonio Brown outproduced their top three receivers combined last year. You know, he's had over 1,200 yards each of the last six seasons. It's easy right now to get caught up in what are really crazy things that Antonio Brown keeps saying via social media and interviews with, he did an interview with ESPN that I thought was just nuts for a guy trying to get paid. But, you know, try to remember how good of a player he is on the football field.

I definitely think he could help the Redskins at the receiver spot. I don't think a trade is happening. I won't rule it out. I'd say a 5, 6% chance, maybe up to 10 if the compensation really starts to drop. And that's the only area where maybe it starts to make sense. If you can really do Antonio Brown without giving up a first round pick, I think you've got to at least consider it. I also think one thing that I heard multiple times in Indy,

and this is something that the big national guys have been saying, is that I believe the Redskins in trade conversations will be players will be brought up much more than they have in the past. And even if you look back to last year, Kendall Fuller being part of the trade for Alex Smith might be a precursor to more moves where you see players being involved rather than just straight draft picks. What are the players the Redskins have that could be dealt for in Antonio Brown,

and we'll get to Josh Rosen here in a moment, but what players would be on the trading block for the Redskins? Kerrigan? I mean, in terms of what would be perceived on the other end is real value, but would also be available on the Redskins end? Yeah, I don't know the answer to that, Kev. But if you look at who has years left on their contract, who performs at a high level, you know, Ryan would fit that bill.

I don't know that the team would want to part ways with a guy who's been truly great for them since they drafted him. He's never missed a game, but very durable. They don't have – you know, Kendall Fuller was really – was really a piece teams wanted because he was young, he was good, and he was on a rookie deal. other guys that are still on rookie deals that are young and good, they're not going to give up one of the first, they're not going to give up Payne or Allen. And elsewhere, there's not guys that have popped like Fuller did.

Maybe Matt Ionitis, but he's going into a contract year. You look in names like Jordan Reed, Josh Norman, maybe Josh Doxon, who has one more year left on a rookie deal and a fifth-year option out there. I don't know. The word is that they're looking at all their options, and I think guys like that might be options. All right, let's talk about the other report, Josh Rosen,

which came from, I think, Tony Pauline at draftanalyst.net, that the Redskins are openly discussing trading for Josh Rosen. What are you hearing on that front? Hearing the same. For me, a lot of this decision and discussion is going to center around what Arizona does. Because I think the skins are talking about Josh Rosen, but if Arizona's not going to take Kyler Murray, I think the skins are going to be talking to other teams about getting up into the top five to look at Kyler Murray. Well, if they're not trading Josh Rosen, that means they're not taking Kyler Murray.

but right now I would put personally, I would put the odds of them taking Kyler Murray at slightly better than 50-50, if not significantly over 50-50. I think the chances are better than not. Yeah, what did I say? I meant Arizona. I think Arizona is going to take, I think they're taking Kyler Murray. I agree. I agree. I think Rose into the skin is a real possibility.

One of the dominant conversations in Indy that I had time and time again, both was first. office people and with coaches is getting QBs on rookie deals. I had one guy suggest that it's not too far out where you're going to start seeing first round rookie quarterbacks drafted by the same teams within that four-year cycle. Just because it's such an advantage rather than a lot of it might be because of Kirk, I don't know, but rather than having to use a fifth-year option, go to a franchise tag, try to figure out that next deal. If you have a quarterback that's pretty good, but you're not sure about them, why wouldn't you take another guy when you can keep them just super cheap and team friendly at a position where the contract grows so out of control?

Yeah, I mean, it's always an advantage if you've got somebody on a rookie deal with years left, but the player's got to be good too. And there have been more rookie quarterbacks that haven't made it over the last 10 years than have actually been productive over the last year. I had one scout tell me on Rosen all the armed talents there, and you can't blame him for how bad the Cardinals were in 2018. I think it was just a really bad situation. I think Rosen, I think the Cardinals are going to want a first round pick. I don't know that the market elsewhere in the NFL will match that. If you can get Rosen cheap, if you can get Rosen for your extra third, I think that's an easy, easy trade, but I don't know that that will happen. Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, I think in discussing these both players, Antonio Brown and Rosen,

it's hard to have a definitive opinion on either without knowing what you'd have to give up to get for them. But, you know, on Rosen, here's the bottom line. If they're going to take Kyler Murray and you've got other teams like Miami and the Giants who say they're going to draft their quarterback, you're not, you've got a lot. limited marketplace, which could be a huge advantage for a team like the Redskins if they really want Josh Rosen. It may not require number 15 overall. You know, it could be a package of a, you know, a second and a third or a second and a fourth or two thirds or whatever. And then you're talking about a different ballgame altogether. But in talking about both of these stories over the weekend, the thing that I wanted to discuss with you in even more detail, unless you had you know, strong feelings on either player. And it sounds like you think the Redskins are active, too,

that they're more active than they've been in sort of headline, in potential headline moves. Now, Alex Smith was a headline move last year. Let's not try to act like it wasn't because it was. But I think that this is now a clear indication that, you know, if we believe these reports to be true, that they're interested in Antonio Brown, they're interested in Josh Rosen, that there's a different mindset to this off-season, which I know we've had this conversation before, but on some levels, I believe them to be incredibly detached from what reality is

and very much sort of in this ashburn bubble and not really understanding what the significant majority of what used to be their fan base really thinks of them. But here's one thing that Dan, you know, can't ignore and totally understands. And that is, you know, an eight-figure revenue, hit. You know, if he's going to sit back and let these guys continue to do it their way and he can, and he sees these big revenue hits year and year out now over the last few years, I think he may

have gotten to the point where he's like, look, Bruce, love you, but we're not, we got to sell something. We have to sell something. And right now we've got nothing to sell. I agree. I agree. I also think a lot of it is needing a quarterback. I think knowing that you need a quarterback changes, everything becomes a headline. Because you know, Ryan

Finley with the extra third round pick isn't the answer. It's certainly not the answer in 2019. And I think beyond you know, beyond the empty stadium and beyond week 17 being packed with Eagles fans, Bruce and Jay need to win

games. The last time, I wrote this in a story I wrote on our website over the weekend. The last time the Skins missed the playoffs for three straight seasons was 2012, and they made a dramatic trade. And if you look back, there was no fire Bruce Allen hashtag or anything at that point, but fans were very grumpy with the front office and with Mike Shanahan and just wondering where is this franchise going without a quarterback. And I kind of think it's a fairly similar situation, but with a lot more anger and dangerous, perhaps even more dangerous, apathy. And I think that they need to do something both on the football field because they don't have

enough good players. And Bruce Allen basically said that. He's like, we need more blue-chip players and we've got to figure out how to get them. Yeah. And the, you know, the two things that, you know, immediately come to mind if they are more active than they have been in recent years for some big headlines. moves is what we just talked about, the fact that the business has taken a big hit and they need a pop. But with respect to the need of a quarterback, you know, it also tells you, A, if they trade for

Josh Rose and Alex Smith's not playing here ever again. I mean, that's their quarterback. That's who they're going to groom. That's the guy that's going to be our quarterback moving forward. So it tells you all you need to know, not that that that would be a shocker. I mean, I think everybody has this sense that Alex Smith's career may be over anyway, but it would also say, once again, to Jay, we know you love Colt, but we can't win with Colt McCoy starting 16 games. Yeah, I think specifically to the Alex thing, I had more than one league source. Nobody with the Redskins told me this, certainly not on the record or off the record, but folks around the NFL, more than one person, the quote has been he's done. And I think,

think the skins are doing the right thing by not saying it. And, you know, they all kind of say, we know Alex, he's a really hard worker. We just don't know what will happen, but he could make it back. And I think that's the right thing to say for the guy on your team. But I think they are planning ahead without him in the plan. Well, sure. I mean, if the Rosen stuff is real, of course, they are. You know, if you come back with Colt McCoy and Josh Johnson or Colt McCoy in a one-year deal with Ryan Fitzpatrick, then you're still holding out hope for 2020, worst case. But you trade for Josh Rosen or you draft a quarterback at 15 overall, then you... Which they could definitely get. I mean, Locker Jones will be there at 15. Locks not going to be there at 15. No chance.

What if he's there at 12 or 11 and you have to get in front of the dog? I, Cooney's coming on here with me in a moment. He's been the guy that I've liked all year other than being totally intrigued with Marie. I can't stand Haskins. I think he's, I, and Coley called me last night and said, he looked at Locke and he goes, no chance Locke gets out of the top five. No chance that Haskins goes before Locke. You should get Chris Sims on your podcast.

We had him when we were in Indy last week, and he very much changed my opinion on Locke. And I think you're right. I think Cubies get overdrafted. I think Locke in the top 10 makes a ton of sense. But I also just, he didn't have the most, he still showed, you know, too much variety in his throws, I would say. Yeah, no, he's not like a lock,

but just compared to the others. For me, just watching this year, compared to Haskins, to me, he's ahead of Haskins. But I don't know that the teams have felt that way, but maybe we're going to, you know how these. draft boards changed between now and the end of April. But what I, God, I was just going to say something

and I lost my train of thought. No, I got it back. I think the other thing that the Redskins, if they didn't have to give up 15 overall for Rosen, and there's a chance they won't have to, it's a different conversation than giving up 15, because if you give up 15, what you really have to do, if you're smart, and it's not just about the pop, the marketing pop, you have to have him no than number 15 on your 2019 draft board. I'm talking about Rosen. Because right now, if some of these quarterbacks get over drafted, as you described, which I completely agree with, and it happens a lot, not every year, but more years than not,

in this particular draft, there is going to be a game-changing talent on defense available at 15. I thank you. Rosen did not impress in 2018, obviously. Bad team. A Redskins scout told me he still has all the armed talent, and you can't blame him for 2018 in Arizona. So I think that's important. But still, the skins have two third round picks.

If you give up a second and a third for Rosen, or maybe you can get out of it with just a third and a fifth, where they also have extra picks. And then you still have 15. You're able to add Devin White or the quarterback from Washington, or, you know, one of these pass rushers, any of those Clemson, interior, D-Line guys, I think it'd be great. And, Kevin, one thing I'll say, and I think I've heard you talk about the fans that have kind of

maybe quit on the organization or whatever, I think there are plenty of fans that if they made smart moves rather than flashy moves, would really be happy with the decisions. Yeah, I also think less people are going to pay attention to this portion of the year than ever before. It's a continuation of the fewer people that were interested in the actual season itself. I mean, you'd be hard-pressed to say that we just saw the erosion of the last couple of years and some eye-popping erosion this year and just say, well, all of a sudden, they're back into it in March and April. You know, it's... I almost think the opposite. I think once Josh Johnson and Mark Sanchez were starting, I think... But that's not the portion of... But that's not the portion

of the schedule that was alarming. That was utterly predictable, and we've seen the same in similar seasons. What was totally eye-popping and unique to a certain degree was opening day against Indianapolis. And the television, the TV

ratings in games when they were having what appeared to be a good season. Yeah. I agree. The indie game, the home opener, was crazy to see it empty like that. And I would even say the Houston game. I knew you were going to say that.

I mean, that was two six and three teams in first place, and the place was nowhere near full. That should have been packed and ready to go. Yeah, and a Monday night game against the Eagles, Monday night football against the Eagles in a huge game, you know, in terms of the standings, and you had one of the lowest rated audiences

for a Redskins home game locally that you've had in a long, long time. It was an embarrassing number. for a game of that note where there wasn't even competition. You know, it was Monday night football. Can't blame Red Zone for that. No, you can't blame Red Zone or you can't blame a Cowboys game. Remember, some of the Cowboys games locally outrated the Redskins games this year locally. That's frightening as well.

Lastly, before I let you run, just overall, you know, being there and seeing the players and seeing the buzz, I mean, I've been all over Montes-swet all year long in the Mississippi State defense in particular, and that dude ran a 4-4-1-40 as a D-N or an outside 3-4 linebacker. What were your big takeaways, and did you get any sense as to, you know, a player or two that the Redskins really seemed to like? So we had the guy that runs next-gen stats for the NFL, we had him sit down with us during our shows while we were in Indy and on the podcast. And so last year, Tyreege Hill was obviously the fastest player in the NFL, right?

Right. He ran, he got clocked at almost 22 miles per hour. He was running 21.9 miles per hour. Montez Sweat at the Senior Bowl ran over 19 miles per hour. Think about that. You're talking about defensive linemen almost keeping up with the fastest player in the NFL. So certainly Sweat made a lot of headlines.

The D.K. Metcalf stuff, the receiver was really interesting. I don't know if you heard his comments about Jay Grude. No. Actually, I didn't. I just saw the ridiculous like 1.6% body fat and, you know, he looks like, you know, a

bodybuilder with ridiculous speed. Absolutely. He told me, so his media availability was the same time as Kyler Murray's. So there were 75 people standing around Murray, so I just kind of walked around to see who else there was there. I got to have a one-on-one conversation with D.K. McCaff where he told me that the Redskins were the most impressive interview he had because he thought Jay Gruden was a true perfectionist, and Gruden gave him a lot of insight on how to run

better and cleaner routes. I found that pretty interesting for a guy whose numbers could could certainly make him a top 20 pick. You know, it's interesting. You know, Marquise Brown to me looks like a Tyree killed Deshawn Jackson, game-changing impact player right from the get-go. You know, Ole Miss wasn't that great this year. Metcalf is huge,

but I don't care about 1% percent, 1.6% body fat, or, you know, whatever he is, 6-4-225, or whatever he is in it that can run. You know, it's the tape, and I'm interested, like, do people love his tape? Because I don't, I remember him from this year, but not remember him like, you know, a guy like Marquis Brown. You remember him more for the stuff right now than you do for a big game, big old miss game against Auburn or something. I'm totally with you.

The other guy I heard a number of times was the Iowa tight end. Yeah, Hawkinson. No, the other one, no offense. Oh, yeah, Fant, too. I mean, typical that they've got a bunch of tight ends, right? Right, exactly. But that the Redskins like him? Yeah, there was some hope round.

Yeah. But I think now that he tested through the roof at the Combine as well, I think that's gone. An O-Linman that heard good stuff about would be a guard, guy that could maybe play a little center to, Lindstrom from Boston College. Okay. Yeah, it's going to be interesting because I think like the, there was a time there maybe a month ago where a guy like Montez Sweat, you know, potentially could have been there in the middle portion of the first round or a Devin White could have been there.

There's no chance either one of those guys is there at 15. But. Devin White has been the guy, I think, could transform the defense really into a really great unit. But when he ran 4-4 at his size, I mean, it's just crazy. the size and speed of these dudes. Yeah, he's a leader, too, and physical and just, I mean, there's some defensive players in this draft, but that really, if the Redskins were to sit there at 15 because they couldn't get Rosen or Rosen was too expensive or Brown went to Oakland because Oakland, you know, gave up

more, although Oakland's not giving up number four overall. And so then they've got 24 and 27. So theoretically, like the Redskins may have the best opportunity to get Antonio Brown, like 15 overall. I just, I would never give up 15 overall for that nutcase. Never. He's not, he's not, he's going to be the difference of one win, maybe two. So you go from six to eight. And then all a sudden, within two or three years, he's on the downside of his career. I wouldn't do it. And that's a downside of a career that will probably play out pretty ugly. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the upside of his career played out pretty ugly. Imagine the downside. I don't think 15's in play for Antonio Brown.

I don't think they would do that. You know, the other thing, you talked about the Raiders having 24 and 27, I have heard that Daniel Jones will probably not be a top 20 quarterback. A lot of this depends who you talk to, but Daniel Jones in 24 could be pretty interesting if there was a tradeback scenario. For a tradeback scenario. Yeah, yes. Look, maybe the tradeback is to trade.

back and then use whatever you trade back for for Rosen rather than 15. You know, it could be a trade back for, you know, a player you want that you think's going to be there, or it could be a trade back to use that pick to get Rosen. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot between now and then. Any other names you've mentioned a couple, but just, I mean, you were there all weekend. I've been there once for it, and it is, you know, it consumes the town, and it's kind of cool. I'll be honest with it. It's a hard watch for me on TV,

hard watch. Yeah. And it was on TV more than ever before. The value as a reporter is like kind of the nighttime, just talking to people, very casual situations. You get to get more face time with folks that are a lot harder to track down the rest of the year. I think that's the value. I was also thinking about the offensive linemen.

Like there's a chance at 15 the Redskins may take a totally unsexy pick, like a corner or an offensive lineman, or a tight end, you know, potentially. That's what, I mean, they've been trying to really rebuild their O-line and D-line. Maybe they'd do more of it. You can never have enough pass rushers. Thank you. By the way, on Tanna Hill, you think that's a complete, nutter non-story too, right? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah, all right. You ask me for one more name that's on my mind, Kevin? Yes. Mark Turgeon. Yeah, well, I mean, I like Mark so much, but I didn't. He's a great person. But I'm not taking them off the hook.

You've got to start winning some of these games, you know. It's one thing, if you're going to say after these games, we got better today off of a loss, you better be in the sweet 16 bare minimum as you're getting better. in these losses. You know, I just, I understand that frustration, and I'm frustrated to, and I'm, I try not to be the delusional Maryland fan that thinks we should be, you know, a national champion every year, because there are a lot of those out there. But we should be in the suites, this is a sweet 16 roster. It's not always played that way, but to me, it's a top 15 type of talent and roster base. I agree. I'm not calling for Turch to go or anything like that. He's done a pretty good job,

especially once they got into the Big Ten, and he's navigated some tricky situations. You like to see him start winning these big games. That's where I'm at. Me too. I feel the same way. All right. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. Thank you very much, Jeff. Good to catch up with JP there. You know, the other thing that I was thinking about, and I didn't mention sort of in that first segment today is I still believe, I still believe the best course of action is to blow it up.

Take the Alex Smith campaign this year, trade some players that can bring back more picks, which will allow you to make more selections. You know, Bruce mentioned on Friday, and that presser he did, that he expects to end up with nine to 12 draft choices. Well, they only have nine now. Trading up isn't going to produce. more picks. It would produce less picks. Nine to 12 would speak to more of trading back at some point. You know, not necessarily in the first round. They've done it in later rounds as well. But this is a draft where they could stockpile some young talent, especially on defense, especially on defense. There are going to be players at 15 and then in the second and third

round where they can continue to build up youth on defense. You already have Allen pain ionitis. You're going to potentially lose Preston Smith. Carrigan, I would deal for some picks, and I would start looking at young corners and young inside linebackers. You've got one in Ruben Foster if he's eligible and if it works out. You know, you may have a chance, may have a chance to draft, you know, a Devon White potentially. There's no chance Montez Sweat's going to be there. No chance, Josh Allen. These are two game changers off the edge. There are going to be some young players, young offensive linemen that are going to be potentially available at 15. The Redskins, I think, still, their best course of action. Treat this like a lame duck

coaching year. You're going to try to replace Jay Gruden at the end of 2019. Get younger, acquire more picks, tradable assets right now, because Trent Williams and Ryan Carrigan aren't going to going to be at their best when you potentially could feel the competitive team two, three years down the road. It's still the strategy I would take. And when in doubt this year, I would just try to draft more defensive players. You know, I just think offensively, they're compromised already. And even if it is Rosen, even if it is Rosen, is he really going to be ready this year to be a difference maker in year two? He's not Patrick Mahomes. make no mistake. He, I think, is a potential starter in the NFL, you know, and maybe a good

starter in the NFL. I don't know that he's an elite starter in the NFL. I don't know that I see that in Josh Rosen, but we're going to find out what Cooley thinks here in a moment. But first, let me quickly tell you about Ferrisch Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Fairfax. If you are thinking about something new, give Ferris a shot. Right now they've got plenty of inventory. Their rebates are the best they've been all year long. The Jeep Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and Jeep Wrangler, great deals right now. They're located in Fairfax Circle. Ask for Ralph Perkins when you get there. Tell them that I sent you. Ask for Ralph. He'll come out. Tell him Kevin Sheehan sent you. He'll take good care of you. If you go to Farish Cars.com, live inventory, live pricing, and their

best deals on the easiest to navigate website you'll ever see for a car dealership. I promise you, Give Ferris a chance. They won't disappoint. Their sales team's first rate, same with their service team. Again, ferrishcars.com for all of the information. All right, let's bring in Chris Cooley, who I gave Chris an assignment this morning. You're coachable. It's the best part about you.

You're so coachable. I called Cooley up and I said, I need you to watch Rosen now. And by the way, you didn't even know about the story that came out over the weekend about Josh Rosen and the Redskins being interested in openly discussing trading with Arizona to get Josh Rosen. You were not even aware of the story. Am I right about that? I wasn't aware of the story, but I've been talking about all these quarterbacks over the last week, and I'm not surprised by the story, also with the quarterbacks working out of the combine,

in terms of me saying, I would only feel confident drafting quarterbacks for the future in Caller Murray and Drew Locke. And they're not going to get Kyler Murray or Drew Locke without giving up a bow. load because neither of those two are falling past the top six. And so you've got to ask yourself what you want to do if you want to have an answer right now. And Rosen would be the guy, especially considering that both of you and I think Murray is going to go number one. Yes. So real quickly, before we get to Rosen, because last week you and I talked about Kyler Murray and you had Ryan Finley done. I have shared with people some of the conversations we've had about the other the other quarterbacks, but you haven't done it on the podcast, on this podcast. You've done it on your

own podcast, which you can listen to any way you listen to a podcast, listen to Cooley's podcast. He's doing it a couple of days a week, and you can get it on Redskins.com as well. But first, you know, the last time we talked, I said, you said you were going to do Haskins that day, and I said, I'm going to make a prediction that you are not going to be impressed with Haskins because I've been down on him all year long. So I did share with everybody our conversation but just real quickly so that everyone can hear it from the horse's mouth. Your thoughts on Haskins are? Well, the first thing about Haskins is I said to you,

I didn't want to just kill this guy who's a local kid, who's a Maryland kid. And you said, oh, don't worry about it. He was supposed to go to Maryland, and then he screwed Maryland, went to Ohio State, and that was his plan all along, so you can kill him. So, I mean, I'd take that from you. I don't like Haskins. I don't understand in watching some of the Combine stuff. And I think it was like Daniel Jeremiah and Rich Eisen that were just in love with Haskins

and saying that the Giants fans are in love with Haskins. And I think there are a lot of questions surrounding Haskins in terms of, one, is mental toughness. Like, I never saw the guy overcome a bad start. He made big throws and big moments, and he was able to make some plays. But it's also, you're talking about Ohio State talent versus big ten. talent in a lot of situations. So I don't care that he dominated Northwestern in a bowl game as much as I do that he struggled mightily against the good defense in Michigan State early in the season. I thought he had really slow feet in the pocket. I didn't think he moved very well in the

pocket. It proved out that he was very slow at the combine. I think he ran a 509, 40 or 504. He was over 50. But he didn't climb the pocket well. He didn't speed up his process a lot of times in the pocket. He didn't make a lot of throws that I thought he should have made in terms of anticipation largely because I don't think he moved well enough in the pocket to get himself open, eyes and feet together. There's a lot about him that I think he struggled with that. I mean, we can do this whole thing if you want, but I'm not a lot. We don't have to do the whole thing, but if I, you would describe anybody that takes

Dwayne Haskins in the first part of the first round as nuts, right? What I said to you is I think he has a high, high percentage of busting as far as a first round quarterback, and there's a lot that goes into that, including the demand to play that player early in a season, and I don't think he's ready. All right. Drew Locke, you have done his film breakdown, and you are now convinced that he is a top five pick. Why?

So it's interesting because I think Murray and Locke are the two locks in the first round. To me, Murray's incredible. He's electric to watch, and he's going to make a ton of electric nuisance plays and do – and he's got a ton of armed talent. Drew Locke is the guy that I think is the He's the dude in the draft He to me is the most complete quarterback You start with him being a four-year starter

At Missouri He was a two-sport athlete coming out of high school Which I love offered to play college basketball He utilizes a ton of pro concepts at Missouri I think he can throw dimes across the field I think he throws well under pressure Not sacked a lot He's very very good in the pocket

moves around incredibly well. Can work the entire field, can work three-level progressions in play action games. I think he sees coverage incredibly well. I thought he anticipated well. Recognize his blitzes. But more importantly, man, I think he throws the ball. I think he throws a great ball, and I think he throws a ball into tight spaces, and I think he throws balls off his back foot into good spots when he has to,

on the move when he has to. I didn't think there was a lot of bad stuff from Locke. I think he is the most sure thing at quarterback in this draft. Okay, so from a Redskins perspective, understanding they're not going to get Murray, they're not going to get Locke. And then, by the way, on the other quarterbacks that you've evaluated, would any of them be worth taking at 15? Obviously, you've already spoken to Haskins. What about Daniel Jones?

What about Will Greer? What about anybody else that you've looked at so far? Worthy of 15 or not? Because I'm getting to the point where I'm going to ask you if Rosen's worth 15. worth a first-round pick or worth trading for in general? I think the next guy, so I haven't looked at Greer, Rippin, Tyree Jackson, you know, down the list from there. I'm not sure on Daniel Jones.

I could watch more. You and I did this last year with Josh Allen out of Wyoming. And when I said, look, the guy, he made a ton of plays. He was always under pressure, though. so it's hard to see him in rhythm and timing, hard to see some of the anticipation. Their line was bad. Wyoming had lost five starters to the NFL draft.

Duke did not have a lot of talent around Daniel Jones. And watching Jones, the one thing I loved is he did make throws on the movie. He did make plays on the movie. He did actually very athletic. I didn't see what he ran. Did you see what Daniel Jones ran at the time? I didn't, but he is athletic and makes plays with his legs or did in college. Like, he can run.

For a six, five guys? 481, 4-8-1, Aaron just said. That's slower than I would have expected from Daniel Jones. I would have expected that he would have been a little bit quicker than a 481 in the combine. But, I mean, his 20-yard shuttle and his three-cone might have been a little bit better as well, which is to me much more important for a quarterback. I did think he was very athletic. I did think he made a ton of big throws on the move.

I do need to spend a little more time watching Daniel Jones. But I don't know if he's a sure thing at 15. I would say this, I think that there's going to be more talent somewhere else at 15 or more value in that pick at 15 than just taking Daniel Jones because of a need of a quarterback. I could be wrong on that, but that's my feel. I think the most complete after Murray and Block is Finley at a North Carolina state, and the one thing I've heard is that maybe some leadership questions coming in there, a little ho-hum at times.

I did like Ryan Finley a lot. I think he's got some stuff to him. All right. Tell everybody what you see in Josh Rosen and whether or not you think it's worth trading for him and then what, you know, his value would be on the trade market. All right. So you said that you had a ton of feel from a lot of the pro games.

You said you went back this morning and watched all of them on the game pass. I just watched about four. You were going to do the pro evaluation. Well, I thought you were going to do. I don't care about my. evaluation as much as I care about your evaluation. What would Josh Rosen be if you were in the draft with the current quarterbacks? I think that would be as interesting based on his college film from a year ago. Just because you would say Arizona, you're struggling with the bad

offense. He had some problems at offensive line. I haven't done this at all, so I'll do it for you. First thing I liked is he is under center a ton, and he is in the pistol, and he is in the gun at UCLA. Second, the dude can sling it, man. Yeah, he can throw the ball down the field. Maybe a little bit too much air on some of the balls down the field, and he doesn't have a great completion rate for balls down the field, but he can sling it. There's no question that Rosen's got the ability to get the ball down the field.

He's clinic in the pocket. Say that again. We lost you for a second. He's what in the pocket? He's clinic. It's a quarterback clinic in terms of his ability to move in the pocket. I think he has a good feel for the ball. pocket. I think he climbs the pocket well. I think he moves and slides feet and eyes at the same

time. He's not afraid of rush. He's not afraid of pressure. He senses it and feels it as much as he never has to look at it, I guess is what I'm saying. And then his mechanics are A plus in terms of his ability to deliver the ball. Trust himself massively, man. The guy throws the ball down the field as much as possible and he can throw it into tight windows. And you can see him throwing seam routes on the numbers in front of safeties. You see him throwing cover two hole shots between the corner and the safety in big time spots. Intermediate throws like the play action plant throws are fantastic. I think he speeds up his process when he has to really well at UCLA.

If he's got blitz or pressure or an immediate open receiver, he's able to get the ball out quicker without his normal process. I thought he showed a ton of courage. He'll take hits in the pocket. And I also thought he had a ton of lower body strength, you know, avoid and not take sacks at times because he's able to stay on his feet. The negatives that I saw from Josh Rosen, he hates not throwing the deep ball. He hates it. He does not want to take the easy throw ever.

There are so many throws that I'm looking at over the last year at UCLA where I'm saying, the underneath guys open, the underneath guys open, the underneath guys open. and he's not throwing it. Like I was looking at a throw, I think, against ASU. He's got all-out blitz, so one-on-one across the board, no safety in the middle of the field. Two seams on either outside, and then inside one guy running a deep out route. He pumps the seam on the outside. You don't have to pump anybody.

It's a scene you'd be pumping the safety if you were pumping anybody. And then turns down the easy out route, which is wide open, and throws the seam incomplete on the other side. You're like, why do you just want to throw the seam? Do you not want to throw the easy guy? It's third and eight in that situation. Did you not just want to throw the easy seam? Come on, guy. So that was, I think, really questionable.

Does not get to the checkdown well. Does not work that dropping depth, high, low linebacker well. He wants to wait for second window intermediate throws versus throw the easy open underneath throw. So I thought that was really interesting. And in the NFL, you have got to be able to get the ball out right now. And I'll talk about that when I look at some of his games this year. Well, can I let me interrupt just for one moment on that point.

So the games that I watched from last year, I watched the Kansas City. A couple of the games that were competitive. Like Kansas City, they actually had a chance at Arrowhead, had the ball down six in the fourth quarter. They had a chance against the Raiders. He actually threw a touchdown pass to Fitzgerald late in the fourth quarter to give him the lead. and do you know what he did very often? He threw the check down.

Now, in part, because there was immediate pressure all year long, it would appear, interior pressure. Now, they tried to protect him by running the ball with David Johnson a lot. They were balanced in most of their games, lots of play action, tons of screen and quick game. So I think when you see some of last year, and it was probably out of necessity, you're going to see a different mindset than he had at UCLA. Well, you want to get him into that mindset, but I think where it translates and it's tough, is he knows he's going to come to the underneath guy,

but how quickly can he get there versus pressure or versus off coverage? Like, I'll give you a translation right now. I'm watching the Seattle game, and he gets sacked on a, three-man side to his left. Two of the receivers running vertical, the outside guy just coming across underneath. got blitz. The coverage is way off. He's getting hit a second and a half after the ball should have been out right when he should, right when he's already coming to the underneath guy. The ball's

just late. He knows where he has to go. He's just, he wants that deep throw. He wants to continue to look deep. And you don't, a lot of times in the NFL, you just look and you see, okay, safety's off 12 yards, corners off six. I can't, I have no throw down the field. So how fast can I get it to my underneath guy to go ahead and run with the football? bootlegging in Seattle. Rolling right, which I don't think he throws that well on the run, is a little bit of a question. Rolling right, a normal boot.

You got a flat route to the side he's rolling. You got a tight-in crossing, and then on the outside you've got a comeback. He's rolling right, the flat and the cross are covered. The throw and the progression is the comeback to the outside. It's like boot 101. He throws back across the field to what you call the far corner, the backside receivers running across the field to the far corner of the end.

end zone into double coverage. You had time, you have to come back open. Like, what are we doing here? Like, that's scary to me. Why we would ever make that throw, I can't answer. It makes literally zero sense. So you see that, and that's in the last game of the year. Look, you said something early as you're going through him,

that he's got a lot of confidence, you know, in his ability to throw the ball down the field. and you can see it even at Arizona, but I certainly remember this from UCLA. He threw a lot of balls. He threw a lot of picks, but a lot of balls that could have been picked too because he took a lot of risks and threw into tight windows.

And, you know, in Arizona, some of it is that he is under siege much of the time. You know, in immediate pressure, which is why there was a lot of, a lot of David Johnson in the, you know, in the screen game, a lot of David Johnson in the run game, and you know, a lot of checkdown stuff,

although a lot of the checkdown stuff was on third and forever, because they were in third and forever a lot. But he fumbled a bunch, too. Didn't lose all of them, but he got hit and fumbled the ball a lot. Okay, well, let me give you that, because that was one of the things that I wrote down watching him in college is he doesn't protect the ball very well.

He doesn't keep two hands on the ball and a hit. He fumbled ten times. I know. He was sacked 45 times. He fumbled. I know. 45 times. Three and a half times a game. He fumbled 10 times. To give you some perspective,

Kirk, who has led the league in fumbles in the last three years, fumbled, I think, like 13 times total in 2017 with us. Yeah. Fumbled 10 times in 13 games. Yeah. It's almost a fumble a game. I know. You know how many fumbles you should have from your quarterback?

Literally zero. If you have more than three in a season, they have an issue. It's not because they're getting hit. It's because they don't protect the ball. You can't fumble 10 times. Fumbled twice in the Seattle game in the first half, getting hit. Those are not acceptable fumbles. And so his ball protection and ball security is terrible in the pocket.

I also thought this was interesting. He went from an 8.1 yards per throw in his senior year to 5.8 in his rookie season in Arizona. And another thing, you know, as you look at him, you talked about taking risky throws. I don't think he sees the field entirely well. So I'm going to give you a coach-like example. You have a play-action pass, and more times than not, these are under-center play-action passes, and they did a lot of that at UCLA. I also see that at Arizona.

You have a deep post or a deep go route on one side and a deep crossing route on the other side. if it's a quarter's look or cover four, the backside corner is still responsible to get deep to the middle of the field. So if you're throwing the post, you can throw it high across the field if that corner doesn't fall off. Because the corner's not going to run all the way across the field with the crossing route. He should fall off into the deeper throw. The way I was always coached or the way that I went through it with Kyle and Sean, and when we were coaching on it and I was paying attention was when I was paying attention, I wasn't paying attention to our play action reads in 2007.

I just was doing my stuff. I mean like the tight end stuff. I was doing whole picture things in my last four years. Against a quarter's look, when you try to throw that deep post, the read isn't necessarily the safety. It's the backside corner. And he has no clue what that backside corner is doing. He's guessing every time he throws it.

And that's a full field read. And that's why he's taking a lot of risks throwing those full field reads. and if you're falling off into the deep post, you're going to throw a lot of picks in those instances or you're going to throw a lot of balls into traffic where you didn't necessarily expect traffic. But the idea is the guy on that corner side is running all the way across the field,

so the corner doesn't have anyone to cover in his deep quarter, so he's just going to fall off, sluff off. So I think he struggled full field stuff. Three years at UCLA, he was hurt in his sophomore year, but 26 touchdowns to 10 picks, his senior year, 23 touchdowns to 11 picks his freshman year. No freshman year, yeah. He can get better in terms of protecting the football. He still

fumbles a lot and he still throws a lot of picks. And so to me it means he's mechanically amazing. Trust his arm, but still is going to throw a bunch of picks. He threw two stupid picks against freaking Memphis. Memphis, dude. You know what that line was? UCLA was ranked and Memphis was a three-point dog. That was a smell test pick that particular Saturday, early in the season. In 2007, I think it was.

He threw a pick against Memphis, rolling out to his right with the crossing route right in front of him that he turned down, planted through all the way back across the field of the back checking over the ball across his body, which was the most inane pick I've seen in a long time. You're like, the guy you're rolling. How was the guy not in front of the guy you throw to? I think he threw a lot of bad picks. And I think he threw picks in the league that were bad picks. I watched that Seattle game through the first three and a half quarters just as I got off the phone with you.

And he got away with two picks early in that game that should have been. that game. Yeah. Like he's not looking off the safety well. He doesn't have a good feel for high, low in that game, for backer space and depth. So I think he's struggling a lot right now. I think he's a smart quarterback. I think he's got a ton of on talent. Maybe he's not as strong of his arm. Oh, here's the last thing I was going to mention. He's late on a lot of throws and high on a lot of throws, and he throws behind a lot of end-breaking routes because he's late. I think his anticipation could improve it a little bit. You didn't mention the fact that he, you did mention actually, which I totally saw in the tape last year. He's got great feel in the pocket and creating

more time for himself in a pocket when they had a pocket in Arizona, but he's not a mobile quarterback. He's not going to kill you with his legs. Right. He's not a mobile guy. But he does avoid pressure even when he gets hit. But the other thing is he fumbles, as much as he avoids it and gets out of the sack, he fumbles. The other thing, too, and some of these games, I don't know how you were watching them, the college tape, but there were games. He is a competitive guy. This is the part of him that I loved more than anything at UCLA. There was a game they played against Texas A&M in 2017.

They were down 34 late in the third quarter, brought up. him back. He was incredible in some of these really tight games, making clutch throws, leading clutch drives, at least as a college quarterback. He was sort of magical at the end of some of these games when they had to have it, you know, on a big drive. That's one of the things I loved about him. But remember, too, that, you know, that there's this, you know, a lot of that stuff about Rosen, and him being really smart and a little bit arrogant and he's had some concussions and he comes from a family of affluence and his father's a doctor and will you know does he truly love football

which is something you always care about you know as much as as anything else? The competitive side of someone is incredibly important to me because if he's that crazy competitive and proud of what he's doing then I think he loves it. I think he loves what he's doing because he's willing to compete. compete. So there's a lot to that. Again, he's a guy that you'd have to get to know a little bit in terms of seeing how competitive he truly is. But I mean, what was it? Was it the A&M game that they were down like 30 points in the second half? You're like, you're watching this guy. It was

the first game of the season. You're watching this guy struggle, struggle, struggle, and all of a sudden just make every throw. And a lot of them were throws that probably she shouldn't have gotten away. I know. You're right about that. In fact, that game, I remember you and I on that Monday after that weekend, and I said that was one of the most incredible college football games ever. Because college, you know, you have big swings, but they were down 34 late in the third quarter. And they scored five consecutive touchdowns on five consecutive drives. But a couple of the throws were just lucky where they got away with a fourth down throw that should have been picked. that got tipped and caught.

You know, they needed a lot of things to happen. Exactly. But the bottom line is he led five consecutive drives. And just, I remember just how into it he was. Like, you know, this is going to happen. Somehow we're going to make this happen. And they ended up winning the game, you know, by a point on a touchdown at the very end. That's the part of him that I loved in addition to clearly you could see he can make the throws.

But he did, he's been. a turnover machine, even if the numbers don't necessarily reflect it as a serious issue, watching. Well, they do in the NFL. His NFL numbers reflect in a serious issue. We turn the ball over 19 times in 13 games. That's a big number. And I bet if we watch those games, the picks could have been so, and you could say that maybe about a lot of quarterbacks, but it could have been a lot more because he takes a lot of risks. But anyway, I can sit here and pull up every single pick, just the picks from his NFL season, which is the beautiful thing about technology.

So what's your takeaway on him as a potential quarterback of the future for the Redskins? He's not worth a first, is my takeaway. I don't know if he will dictate a first, though. I don't know that it depends on the market, right? Like, if there isn't a market for him, which is possible, because the giants may take care of their quarterback need early, the dolphins may the dolphins already came out apparently there was a report this morning

that says they're not interested in Rosen Foles is going to Jacksonville so if the Redskins are the only team maybe they could get away with a third a couple of thirds or a third and a player I don't know I don't know maybe I don't know

it's so hard when you value a player because the players also, you've got a value on that other team's need as well. So it's tougher than you think to put value on said players. Like, what do you give up your third in? Josh Norman? I don't know. I mean, you got to wonder exactly. I don't know.

Here's the thing I like about him. I mean, you'd rather include Josh Norman in a trade than cutting him if you're after the salary cap. you know, net savings, clearly. True. The thing I like about Rosen is you don't have to teach him to be a quarterback at all. Right. He is capable of doing NFL quarterback things all the way from the snap to the point the ball's released.

You need to coach him up on understanding and seeing coverage better, which is not uncommon in any way. And I think he's smart. You can see him changing protections, alerting or killing plays. You can see him doing a lot of things on a professional level where you can see that he understands it.

I think you can teach a guy to read the field better. I think he only read half of field most of the time at UCLA, and so that's something that you can absolutely work on. I mean, not many of any quarterback to see the whole field anyway. That's a common thing. It's like, full field reader.

Like I see that on Dwayne Haskins. He ain't a full field reader. He has one concept. Ohio State operated in like three drop-back concepts in total. You don't read the field when you have three total concepts and when it's not play action? It's easy.

So the full-filled reader thing, I think, is a little overrated. None of these guys are great full-field readers, other than Drew Locke, who's just a baller. So I think that's a coachable thing. I like his confidence. I like his belief in himself. There's some stuff about him there that I think he's definitely intriguing. and if he likes ball and wants to keep playing at a high level

or wants to try to play at a high level and believes in doing things the right way, he's a guy you can build around. That's what I wanted from you today. That was awesome. Real quickly. I would like to watch some more of his NFL stuff. I mean, obviously, I would like to see more of what he did in Arizona.

Watch him at Arrowhead. That's, you know, that's the most. middle of the season. It's probably his fifth start, fourth start, something like that. I mean, Kansas City wasn't a great defensive team, but he had some moments in that game, both good and bad. But you could see the emphasis on understanding with that offensive line. We got to run the football, because they have talent. You know, they had some talent at the skill positions. David Johnson really started to look like David Johnson at times last year. And Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk is a good young receiver. Yeah, I like Christian Kirk a lot. Yeah, so

they had some things there, but there were just too many plays that got blown up, you know, early, but they really, there was bootleg, there was a lot of early downplay action, there was really an attempt to stay balanced and run the football, lots of screens, you know, and then, you know, a couple of shots here and there, but it was you know, it was him, you know, learning, unfortunately, in a in a situation where in many of the games, they were over, and a lot of the games, they just didn't have a chance with their protection.

Yeah, I think that's another thing that makes it really tough, is when the game's over, late in the second, early in the third quarter, would he going to operate? Yeah, but they had some competitive games. That's why the games I went to were the games, I remember the chief game. The final score was 26-14, but it was 20 to 14, and the Cardinals had the ball at Arrowhead with a chance. They had the Raider game, that's a bad team that they're facing, but it was a competitive game. They won at Lambo that pretty much eliminated the Packers. Got Mike McCarthy fired.

Yeah, that was the game that got McCarthy fired. But it was not, you know, it was sort of an ugly game and a field position game. but yeah I mean if you if you watch some of those games you'll get a better feel first throw against Arizona quick out route rhythm throw against against Kansas City right hash to right side line air mailed it over there mail that first one exactly second throw corner out off a play action drives it on the tight end nicely right so I mean like the intermediate throws in rhythm he can definitely make like that's his that's his deal right now but deep throws and the intermediate at rhythm throws. I think he makes really well. I think the short stuff is what he's got to work on.

But it seems to me, and I'm not a quarterback, never played quarterback. I think I should have played quarterback, that if you can make a 20-yard throw on the numbers on a one hitch or two-hitch, that there's no reason that you can't throw a slant on a plant throw. You know, the one thing that surprised me about what you said about some of the UCLA tape is who was their tight end number 81, who he always found? in the medium range. That guy... I'm not talking about the medium range.

Okay. Were you saying through deep a lot? No, the intermediate would be medium. Okay. That's my word for medium. I think he struggles, I think he struggles with short throws. Like Kansas City, third place, screen, throw over David Johnson's head by about two feet, and you're like, whoa, how are you missing that throw?

Yeah, right. So that's some of the questions. But to me, I just think a guy that can make throws down the field should be able to make the shorter throws. He just doesn't get the ball out quick enough. I think that's a big thing on some of the early throws. And I think it goes back to just saying Josh Rosen does not want to take the easy throw for three years at UCLA, has got to get the ball out just an instant quicker to these short throws.

As he's late, then he's trying to fit it or do something with the ball. He also, as a guy that has great mechanics, one thing I noted, does not throw the ball very accurately from different arm angles. Not Patrick Mahomes. Not definitely not Patrick Mahomes. All right. Last thing before I let you run, the Antonio Brown thing. Schefter reported it's the Redskins, the Raiders, and the Titans for Antonio Brown. It would be a great thing for the media. It would be a big pop.

It'd be some buzz. I know he's good, Chris, and I know he would make an impact. I would be surprised if it happens, and I don't think as a fan I want it to happen. What do you think? Well, I think we talked about this last week. But I think number one is his cap numbers are incredible for the Redskins for the next three years, for that talent at that position. It's like $12 million a year.

I think it's $12.11 and then free agency. No, he's got three years left. So it's like 12, 11, 11, something like that without any guaranteed money into it. Those cap numbers fit your scenario perfectly. Secondly, you don't have a dude or a big-time guy at the receiver position, which makes everybody else's job at the receiver slash tight-end position and in the run game even harder. If you don't have a guy that can beat one corner, then you're putting Josh Dockson against the one corner,

and you're going to struggle in that situation. He might be much better against two corners at this point in his career. You also don't have a guy that can take it to the house. I mean, Crowder's probably not coming back. So you don't have a guy that can take an underneath throw. I guess you can say Richardson, but is he going to be healthy? I think it's a good fit, actually, for the Redskins. And in this instance, you've got to take a risk on personality to some extent.

You're not going to find that guy. There's four guys that are Antonio Brown-like in the leagues. Eight at most that can do the things that he really does, like number one, number ones. So I think that it's a good fit financially, which they need in a big way right now. Would you give up 15 overall? Yeah. Okay. I do realize, though, that you're giving up 15 to essentially win by your third year at the worst-case scenario.

And that's also saying that he doesn't come over and want more money at some point in this year or hold out after his second year. And you might have to do a new deal. but you're talking about doing a new deal with a 33, 34-year-old receiver at the end of two years. Right. So what's that new deal going to look like? Especially if you brought him here and he had 80 receptions versus 120, didn't quite have the production. I mean, a lot of people could potentially look at it and say,

lost a step or not quite the guy, but he's still in number one. I like the idea of AB. The Redskins need that position in a big, big way. All right. I just can't believe they'll trade him. You and I talked about this. Seems crazy to me. Oh, he can't get along with the quarterback, so he won't be here.

Okay, we'll move him. Okay. That sounds good, guys. Well, I mean, you know, that's always what you have to consider when you're, you know, considering acquiring a player like that. He's in a solid, if not an elite organization with a Hall of Fame quarterback, and he's unhappy. And they are now willing to trade him, and, by the way, by trading him,

take a massive accelerated salary cap hit in the process. Well, the one thing they have is two good receivers right now. You know James Washington at Oklahoma State was one of my favorite guys out of the draft last year, and Juju Smith-Schuster has played out to be an exceptional one receiver, and I think would translate into that role. So Ben's got guys. So there's enough around them that they can afford maybe more than a lot of teams could lose that kind of a guy. Agreed.

All right. What do you want? Do you want him? You don't want him, do you? No. First of all, it's interesting. You want to rebuild completely? I do. I do. And there's so much defensive talent that right now, if the quarterbacks go early, you're going to have a chance at a real, another great defensive player that you can add. And I would just, the net takeaway for me on Antonio Brown is for 15 overall, I need to improve more than just a six-win team to potentially an eight-win team,

because that's what it's going to be. If he's two games over replacement, you wouldn't trade for a guy that would be, in terms of Al-Galdi's baseball speak. If you could, listen to me, no one in the NFL is two games over-replated. I said one for him. I said if you're over-under-on-him is six and a half. If you're over-under-on-him is six, it's going to be seven now. So if you really were wildly crazy and thought that he could improve your team by two games,

what are we talking about? They're not going to contend for anything with him, and you'd have to contend with him within two to three years because then he's on the downside potentially of his career at 33, 34 years old. So to me it doesn't make any sense. I wouldn't do it. And not to even mention all of the other, you know, he appears to be, you know, at the best, at the best, unpredictable and quirky, and at worst, utterly disruptive. I hope he's not utterly disruptive. Here's the thing I would say, though. In terms of rebuilding,

it's different in the NFL. You don't get three years like you do in a college program. You're rebuilding, you get one season. So what are you going to do at that position? I'm not saying that. And you don't, and by the way, it's not like you're going to have a boatload of money next year. So just going out and paying somebody might not be the answer even at the end of next year. And drafting somebody isn't always easy, especially when your number one problem in the draft is drafting the toughest position available to draft which is quarterback. And here's the other thing.

If you were to go get a guy like Rosen, do you know how big of a difference it makes to have Antonio Brown to throw the ball to? You're going to make the quarterback better, too. No doubt. No doubt because the one thing, the one thing, the one thing, I think the Rosen actually benefited from decent skill position players last year. But as it relates to Brown, if he wasn't happy in Pittsburgh, what is he going to be in an organization like the Redskins?

What's he going to be in a place that for now, all right, let's assume no Rosen, doesn't have anybody resembling Hall of Fame quarterback Ben Rufflesberger or any of the other weapons the Steelers have had in recent years on offense. How is he going to react to that? Maybe that's what he wants. He doesn't like Hall of Fame quarterback Ben Rossellsberger. Clearly he wants to be the guy that everyone says, like, the guy, the dude. So you get him in here and let's say he gets 90 receptions and we all praise him, then he's going to react very positively. And by the way, if I'm Jay Gruden,

I'm begging for it. In the year or you're saying it might be my last year, I want every bit of talent. I'll say I'll deal with anything. I'm his kind of guy, man. I will make it work with him, give me him, give me him. Please don't make me take a 22-year-old kid who I'm really not sure of. All right. I'll talk to you later in the week. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

I did it for you, man. That's, oh, yeah, just you did give me an assignment. To anybody listening, Kevin called me or text me at 830 and said, can you come on the podcast and do a film breakdown of Josh Rosen? Yep, let's watch some film. All right, see you. I'll talk to you. Yes.

Cooley, most of you don't understand this. He is so coachable. So coachable. Called him up early this morning. I said, I need a Rosen Film breakdown by late morning, and he had it. Thanks to him for doing that a lot. All right, it's been a long show. Hopefully a good one.

I've enjoyed J.P. Finley and, of course, Cooley. There was just a lot of Redskins news, and then you had the Maryland game as well. There were other things from the weekend, but I'll save those for tomorrow. Don't forget to tell people that may want to listen to the show, that haven't figured out the whole podcast thing, that we are available at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. It's really easy to listen that way as well. And if you are listening on iTunes or Apple Podcasts or any particular platform that allows you to rate the show and subscribe to the show, that would help us if you would do that as well. Enjoy the day back tomorrow.