The Kevin Sheehan Show - Keim On Commanders' Draft Board

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

Kevin opened with Nikola Jokic and Denver going out early in the playoffs last night against a depleted Minnesota team. Kevin thinks Jokic's legacy took at least a momentary hit with the loss. ESPN's John Keim jumped on with plenty to say about Washington's draft and the likely lay-out of their draft board before last Thursday night's first round. Plenty more with John including the makeover of the defense, thoughts on Brandon Aiyuk, and what the team thinks about Nick Allegretti. Eddie C joined Kevin to preview the Kentucky Derby to finish up the show.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. He is Kevin. Two guests on the show with me today. John Kine, next segment. John will tell us what he thinks Washington's trackboard looked like

prior to last Thursday night's first round. Following John, Eddie C is back. It's Triple Crown Race Time of the Year. He'll preview tomorrow's Kentucky Derby. The show's presenting sponsor is always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com, if you need new windows. I'm going to open the show with something that I read actually about a week and a half ago, and I just haven't had a chance to get to it. It's from Ellen. Ellen wrote this back on the day the new uniforms were unveiled, or maybe a day or two after.

It was after I had talked about the new uniforms. April 17th, she wrote this. Ellen wrote, Kevin, my husband and I are devoted listeners to your podcast. He's from the D.C. area and was a diehard skins fan, but like you, lost some of the passion that he once had. I've been a restaurant branding consultant for the last 20 years and have worked with big fast food and fast casual chains over the last decade.

I've enjoyed your thoughts and concerns over the years about Washington football's name and brand. I was surprised to hear you say that the new uniforms could be a point of reconnection for you. My husband felt the exact same way, and I'm here to tell you that the worst mistake the team made was changing the team's look when they chose commanders. The loss of the name created distance, but all senses can play into emotional connection, and the biggest is visual sight. When the team went to a completely different look, they created too much visual distance for too many of its fans. While I do believe the name will continue to be too big of a hurdle for many. I also believe that the team that takes the field this year will provide

the visual connection that was broken a few years ago. Ellen went on to sort of explain this in even greater detail, but this was the gist of it. I appreciate that, Ellen. And yes, I did say, after seeing the new uniforms, that I thought that I would feel a little bit differently about the team this year and that I thought many others would too, that this would be a point of reconnection for many. And I agree with you, I mean, at least intuitively, not based on experience like you have, but that the name will always be too big of a hurdle for many to, you know, clear to reconnect to the team. That's why I think, you know, no name is better than this name. You know, Washington football team would be better.

But, yeah, look, for me, it was the name as sort of the final death knell, as I've mentioned many times. But there was a slow build or a slow burn towards feeling the way that I feel. And it had nothing to do with the name. It was the losing the absolute, you know, abhorrent behavior by the organization, the embarrassment that they had become. in sports and the owner specifically who was just a vile owner and really

as I've said many times took it as something that was not destructable and completely tore it down to its studs for all intents and purposes almost something well it was it was something thought to be completely impossible to chase away two thirds of what was

really one of the most passionate fan bases in all of American sports. I do, though, understand what you're saying, Ellen, that it's one thing to lose the name the way they lost it and then to choose a new one that isn't a very good one. But changing the uniforms, that was a big part of the clown show, you know, on February 2nd, 2022. That's what made it feel as much as anything else, including the name, that, and an expansion team had arrived, and the team that we had rooted for was gone.

And if they had kept the uniforms and kept the uniforms with the old logo in particular, which had already gone with the introduction of a Washington football team. Remember, they had the actual jersey numbers on the helmet in 2020 and then went to the W after that. But yeah, there's no doubt. I can totally see that part of the way I felt, the last four seasons was it just didn't look like my team. And I've said that so many times. And I did see my team with the unveiling of those new uniforms, even though many of you don't feel the same way because of the helmet, because the logo, the old logo is not back. But the uniform itself,

minus the helmet, is going to look like our team. And it looked like it last year when they wore those uniforms as, you know, throwbacks. It just sucked that they were a bad team by the time they got around to wearing them. But thank you for that. And yeah, I get it. And I do kind of understand from the way you explain it that sight and the visual connection to a team is perhaps even more important than the other stuff. Before we get to Kime, I do want to talk some NBA here in the opening segment. Sorry, but last night's Denver, Minnesota Game 6 in Minneapolis, was really great sports theater. I know that I, you know, for some of you, I tend to be a little bit over the top this time of year. But man, this is a different sport in the postseason.

In the intensity of a game 6 with one team, Denver, playing for survival, the other team, playing with three key players down. Their best player, Anthony Edwards, had missed the last two and a half games of this series. Dante DiVincenzo, their outstanding shooter, is done for the postseason. He's missed the last two and a half, really closer to three games.

And then Ayudasumo, the player that has led their team in scoring in this series, missed last night's game. They had eight players basically available to play. in this playoff game with their best player and two other critical players out. And yet they won the game. Minnesota beat Denver. They pulled away late in the fourth quarter, but the game through the first three and a half quarters,

three and four fifths of the fourth quarter, just so intense. The level of intensity, the level of drama, the level of competition, the level of competition. was through the roof. Minnesota playing down those players. They were so good defensively. They are such a good defensive team, and they've been so really so good defensively throughout this series. They were relentless, start to finish. They had to do what they did defensively to have a chance, because if this series goes back to Denver for a seventh and deciding game and they're down all those players, their chances aren't very good, although I would have given them a chance in a game seven in Denver. The game was intense. There was a fight, not really a true fight, but it involved

Yokic. It involved Jalen Clark, Nas Reed for Minnesota. I mean, it was just one of those, you know, kind of 80s throwback games, like a Pistons Bulls or a Pistons, Celtics or a Celtic Sixers or a Celtics Lakers kind of a game. But the real takeaway for me, and I talked about this with Tommy yesterday and even earlier in this series, is that Nicola Yokic, who after winning the title in 20203, was considered to be one of the greatest centers and one of the greatest players in the history of the game. And it was only going to be enhanced because there were future title runs to come following

2023 and he would end up with more than one championship, more than one ring. I believe that Nicole Yokic's legacy, his reputation, took a hit with the loss last night. I said it before the series and before the injuries mounted for Minnesota, that this was a very important series for Yokic. Since 2023, they have not been past the second round of the postseason. He has one Western Conference finals trip. and then the finals win in 2023 in the postseason. Everything else has been a first or a second round loss. Sort of, as I'm saying it, kind of reminds me a little bit of Ovechkin's sort of playoff career.

He got that one title, thankfully. But he didn't get it at an age in which you thought many more were coming. With Yokic, you thought many more were coming, and they haven't. and now at 31, and he looked old last night. He looked old in this series. Now, last night, he ended up with 28 points in the game, 10 assists, 9 rebounds. I mean, anybody would say, wow, pretty good game, clutch performance. And in this postseason, this six-game series against Minnesota, he averaged 25.8 points per game,

13.2 rebounds per game, 9.5 assists per game. nearly averaged a triple double. Man numbers can be misleading because he did not play well in this series. He played a good game last night in their backs to the wall have to win to survive. He played well, but he didn't play all-time great.

He didn't play like an all-time great player would. He needed not 28 points last night. He needed 38 points last night. he didn't need nine rebounds last night. He needed 19 rebounds last night. And by the way, 19 rebounds were available in the game last night. He did not rebound well. They had 19 offensive rebounds, half of which probably came when he had an opportunity to grab a defensive rebound. He took the game over in many ways in the second half, and he had no support. No Aaron Gordon last night. Big loss, obviously, for them.

to not have him for the majority of this series. And Jamal Murray, who basically was strapped down the entire series by Jaden McDaniels, who was an absolute stud, and even Jalen Clark last night at times, he was four for 17. They needed, you know, an eight for 17 night. You know, they were 10 of 27 from behind the arc, but Yokic and Murray combined on threes were one for seven. Yokic shot 19% from behind the arc in this series. That's abysmal for him. If he had shot 30%, not great, they'd be in a game 7.

Because a lot of the threes he missed were open looks. He played well last night, but he was not a superstar all-time great in the game last night. He was phenomenal after the game, took all the blame, gave Minnesota a lot of credit, didn't mention anybody else, throw anybody under the bus, because he did not have much support in this series, with no Aaron Gordon in particular, and Jamal Murray being basically shut down and silenced by Minnesota's defense.

But you can't, as an all-time great, you can't lose to a team with eight players and three that are missing that are absolutely crucial, including arguably one of the five, six, seven, players in the sport in Anthony Edwards, who averages 28.8 points per game. You've got to strap the team to your back, which he tried to do in the second half, but I don't think he shot enough down the stretch. With Murray, the way he was going, he was way too much of a playmaker, way too trying to get

him off and get some of the other players. He should have ended up with 38 points in this game. He was 11 of 19. A great player in a final like that with no help has 25 to 30 shot attempts. From his standpoint, I thought he should have had that, and I thought he should have had literally close to 20 rebounds in the game. Minnesota was 7 of 29 on threes. They shot 24% from behind the arc, and they had 19 offensive rebounds,

and off of that 22, off of the 22 misses on threes, they had 11 offensive rebounds off those missed threes. Yeah, I love him. He's one of my all-time favorite players. I think he's the greatest passing big man of all time. I think Walton's there with him, Sabonis. You could put into that conversation. We didn't get to see the young Sabonis.

But he wasn't good enough, and he looked tired, and he looked old, and so did the team. And in a conference with San Antonio, Wembeñama, and Oklahoma City, S.G. and even this Minnesota team who's been a bad matchup for Denver in the postseason. Rudy Gobert really is

very difficult for Yokic. I don't think there are any titles in the near future or in the distant future for sure. He might have to jump to the Eastern Conference and he's got one full year left on his deal and Denver doesn't spend big money. Stan Cronky doesn't spend big money.

That's not a, a great team around him. They haven't helped him out. But we've seen teams in Cleveland with LeBron, where he's carried teams with Matt Delavadova and Amman Shumpert and Timothy Mosgob to the finals. Not nearly the competition in the Eastern Conference back then, but in 2016, they were into the finals with no help from LeBron. And they lost in the finals to Golden State four games to two. I love the Joker, but I do think that his lack of playoff success and winning only one ring. I mean, you can look back and say, well, Barclay and Ewing and, you know, the list of the players, the all-time greats that didn't win a ring, it's impacted the way we thought about those players.

They're not on the Mount Rushmore's for their positions because they don't have the rings. Yokic has won, but he's never even been back to the finals. That was a bad loss for Denver. And at the same time, I really think Minnesota deserved it. They were so good defensively. John Kine, after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, I introduced you recently to Thrive Market. I told you it's a product that I use that I think you should use too.

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Window Nation's got over 45,000 five-star reviews, and they were voted number one by Forbes magazine among window installation companies in the United States. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. Joining me right now is John Kime. At John underscore Kime on X. Of course, John's been covering this team. longer than anybody for the last many years at ESPN. So I want to go back to a week ago last night, Thursday night, in the first round of the NFL draft.

I know you've had some reporting on this, but just give everybody a sense of what their board looked like before the draft started. Who do you think they really were hoping would drop to seven and give me sort of an order of the players that they hope? hoped were there when they were on the clock. I think a dream scenario for them was choosing between Jeremiah Love and Sunny Style. I think they knew that there was a very, very small chance that Jeremiah Love would fall to seven.

And I know that they were a little bit surprised that Sonny was there, but there was always a scenario where he could fall to them at seven. So I think when you get beyond the, like the Arvall Reese's and all that, like the realistic one who might get there would be funny styles. And so I think they felt, I think that was certainly one, and I think you could put like, if he's not there, then is it man for Delane or Caleb Down? And I leaned toward Delane.

I'm not sure. I can't say for 100% that that's how they leaned. But that would have been the other two choices at that spot if those other guys were gone. So if Love and Stiles had both been there, who would they have taken? I don't know that they would ever say this now. I think it would have been loved,

but I don't know that I could say that. Again, I can't say it for 100%, but I think that's the one offensive guy they would have picked at that spot. After Stiles, who do you think they're most excited about? Oh, Williams, I said. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Antonio Williams. And so that was a guy, that they definitely wanted. I mean, they picked him, you know, in a spot that was a little bit behind the consensus boards, but also in front of some receivers. Consensus board, sorry, I didn't mean,

consensus boards are like the big, it's become the invoked term. I know, I know, I know, I know. It's funny. I don't know if you listen to Kyle's rant yesterday about that running back from Indiana that they took as the third overall back in the draft, but he kind of talked about, you know, it's dangerous to just sort of focus in on consensus boards because the team's boards don't always mirror the outside consensus boards, although they're pretty

close, and I had this guy Warren Sharp who follows all of it on earlier this week. But Antonio Williams out of Clemson, do you think that he's just a slot, or is it possible that he's versatile enough to play on the outside as well. Well, I think it depends on how much outside are we talking. We're talking about a little bit each game. Yes, he can do that. He did play outside at Clemson. If you go back, and one of the things that Adam Peter said Friday night, or, yeah, Friday night pointed out like his game against Alabama.

No, Georgia. Georgia is in 2024. So I went because he played, just referenced that game. I went back and watched that Saturday. morning and he played yeah he played outside in that game and was facing

press man coverage and did a really nice job so does that one game mean he can do it a lot I don't I'm not sure about that but did he show he could do it yes and I think so I do think he can do I think he's still more of a slot who can play outside versus a guy who can be

equal right and so I think that's that's how I would probably term him, but I do think he can play it, just matter of how much. And then it becomes down on the splits they use, et cetera, and how can that maybe mitigate the experience out there and still make him an outside guy, if that makes sense, just based on your split.

So, yeah, I think he can. It's just a matter to what degree, but I do think he can. What do you think they wanted to get last weekend that they didn't get? I would look more toward the secondary because you're still like, I don't know how you can feel comfortable with what they have there, especially at corner. Now, I don't know that you need to get, excuse me, I know Delaine they were pretty high on,

but it's just like in free agency when they were very high on Tala Linderbaum, they didn't necessarily feel like they had to get a center. And I think, you know, I don't, I'm, I like that they didn't force it just to get a guy. but that's one where it's like you're still thin there. But would you be better off getting like another guy in there who's a veteran to add to that group? But I think that's one area that I would say. Because I think, yeah, that will be one area for sure.

And, you know, you can kind of say safety, but they do have two guys that they feel good about starting with Nick Cross and Will Harris. But do you have like what's your confidence that Kwan Martin is going to bounce back? to where you thought he was going into last year. And the same, you know, I'd say the same thing with Mikey Sanders still because you have a meek-roberton. You've got two guys really Pete, but I do think you need more depth and size at corner for sure. Now that's, but I don't know that, you know, I know they felt like they were good in those

rooms. And with only six picks, you're not going to hit everything. And even if you've got one late, it's not like you're, you know, picking a guy in the sixth round that's not feeling an immediate need. That's a guy you hope develops. You said something that I actually talked about on yesterday. show. You said that they were interested in Tyler Linderbaum, but they didn't feel like they had to get a center. Right. So expand on that from your standpoint. So, I mean, I think they feel,

well, there's two things. It's why I, it's when I say, okay, they're going to try, they'll go after love and maybe someone else who's not the typical position to take on the top 10 because they looked at player impact versus position. And I say that because like after with Linderbombing, they were willing to go, I don't know what their final offer to him was, but I know some teams certainly went over 20, and I know they were in the running, and then the Raiders kind of blew everybody away, but they reviewed him as an impact player more than impact position.

And because short of that, like, because you know if they didn't pivot to another guy, and right away, you're like, hey, they like, it was never Allegrety is going to have the job. It was like, what you like about Allegretti? He's smart, and he's a good leader in that group. And the protection calls that he makes, et cetera, puts others in a good spot. So, like, all those things are important at center.

Now, is he going to be an all-pro? I'm not sure about that, but can he play it? I think they always felt like with what they had internally with him, you know, using Julian Good Jones. And then, like, if Brennan Coleman isn't pushing Chris Paul at guard, then do you try him at center? And I know when Bobby Johnson, the old line coach was here, he would say, like, Brandon can play all five spots. Now, I know that the plan is to have them challenge Chris Paul left guard, but, you know, if he's a guy that down the road, you could do that.

So I think they felt like they had internal options. And I think they feel like they can go out right now and start and play and win with Allegredy at center. So it's because of all those traits that they feel are important at that position. Yeah, that was what I talked about yesterday is that it was my understanding that there's a lot of confidence in Allegretti because he's a really good communicator, smart, and maybe that's where, you know, Biotish wasn't necessarily super strong. That was, that was, you know, they're, like you said, they didn't cut Biotic to then pursue

Linderbom. They cut Biotrish and pursued him. Right. It wasn't like, oh, you didn't, you did this for why. I'm like, it freed up cash for sure. But it's also like, you know, if they really thought he was still at a certain level of the player, he's still here. Right. You wrote today, and I'll let you kind of talk about it, but how they've kind of tried to model this offseason with what Minnesota's done in the Brian Flores defensive scheme in terms of roster construction.

Just talk about that for a moment. Yeah, so the whole thing is, like, their goal obviously off season with the defense get younger and faster. So that was the first thing. They've gotten younger, faster. The free agency signings compared to last year, dramatically different in terms of age and experience. And so, you know, I mean, you look at, like,

I think it was, I think, like, five or six guys who are 27 or younger that they signed for defense key guys compared to last year where there was one who was 27, the rest were 29 or older. So, like, that was a difference. But then you look at how they're constructed. and this is where you go to Minnesota, and not that Durante Jones was in charge, but that's a really good system with Brian Flores,

and he was a big part of that as a secondary coach and then past game coordinator. And he was like Florida's right-hand guy on that defense. And the way it's constructed is with that front seven, and being creative and versatile with the front seven, I think you can see that with Sunny Stiles, with Leo Chanel. I think Jordan McGee can have a role in that as well.

It's some level. I just don't know to what. because you saw Frankie Bougu, but I think, and then the athleticism up front. You don't, Minnesota didn't have that one dominant guy, but they were able to, as Dan Quinn would say, send waves of players at you. I think that's what you get. And then, because then you look in the secondary at corner, for example, they never had in all, like, no, it was like, Stefan Gilmore was there, and his last year, right?

Yeah. Patrick Peterson there, lateness career. Yeah, Byron Murphy was the biggest name corner that they had. who would say it is like in his prime. So they used guys there. And last year, Murphy and Isaiah Rogers, I think,

Isaiah Rogers had a couple of really good games, but was not, but nobody knew who he was before last year. Correct, correct. And so, like, they played those two predominantly. They used a third corner 15, 16 times a game. And that was after,

and that was the one who was the third corner, was Fabian Moreau, who was signed on November 9th. So, like, the point is, they didn't use, like, they use a lot of three safety sets. They use multiple linebackers sets. And so I think it's that versatility of all that. And it's why with corner, you may target the lane,

but maybe you feel like you're okay with what you have. I still think you just need more depth. For sure, because I think it's very thin there, for sure. But it's instructive to go back and look at that. The corners they went with them. And then Kevin, like, Their defense improved, the more their pass rush win rate improved. So it was like, okay, last year was like one of the best,

and their defense was top ten in multiple categories. And they, you know, turnovers and yards, points, all that stuff. And as that improved, so did their defense. And their corners, again, they did not go out and get these big-time corners to do that. And they had good, you know, Harrison Smith, but even Harrison Smith, kind of at the end of his career. So, and still a good player, but my point is, like, it was all about the front seven, the versatility, and I think the quickest beat up front. And that's what this team is added for sure.

Now, whether or not they're going to be a successful, it took the Vikings a couple years to get there. But I do think, like, it was instructive to go back and look at some of the numbers and how they, you know, the group groups, et cetera. Do you think that Durante Jones views Nick Cross as a player that can play like Harris? Harrison Smith, because Harrison Smith has been an unbelievable safety for a long period of time and so versatile, like he could line up in the box on the line of scrimmage and end up as a single high, you know, after the ball is snapped. Right. Does he view Will Harris as a Harrison Smith or Nick Cross?

I think more Nick Cross, and it's funny because we're at the league meetings a couple of weeks go, we a couple of asked Shane Steichen about that, because that's where he played. He was in the box, he's doing this, and doing that. And they did have that. Now, funny thing is, I did ask Durante before Free Agency about that position,

and it wasn't, it wasn't Harrison Smith that he pointed out, it was the other safety. I'm trying to, I'm off the town of my head. Well, uh, who, I mean, they've had a, a bunch of them. I forget who the other safety was there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but, um, always, um,

Josh Metell. Mattelis. Yeah, Mattelis. Yeah, Mattelis was super athletic, too. And in grand of teams. Right, and he was the versatile one that they used more than Smith. So, but the point is they had a versatile safety. And that's where Caleb Downs would have come into play as well, or another safety later in the draft, there are a lot of them. Yeah. But, so, yeah, I think that, to me, in the secondary, maybe more of what you're looking for, and then, you know, I think. So I am curious with Nick Cross. I do think there's a belief. that he can do a lot of that to what level I don't know.

But again, I would say what kind of depth do you have and what's your confidence level? And I know when Durante first at his pressure talked about Juan Martin having some versatility. Now we know that it was not his best year last year, right? Going into last year, a lot of people had high hopes for him or expectations. And so is there more they can do with him? You know, the other thing, Kevin, too, and this is where, and this is all just all, who knows what they're going to do, right? What if Kane Madrano is a guy that they feel like they can use in a certain role

because he's kind of a safety linebacker hybrid, and he can run a little bit. Now, I have no idea if he can. I'm not sure that they're even looking at it like that. Yeah. But I think they have some others that you can look and say, well, this guy can fill that role for this defense. And so there are possibilities, but that is a key spot. Like, you need the one thing, one of the things that they were very, very good at

in Minnesota was just, their coverages, and even within their zone coverages, disguising it. And so you could fall into what kind of zone coverage it was, and that would give you that extra split second to get the line home, you know, to the pass-runs home. And that's where they excelled. So if you have smart guys who are versatile back there, then you can do it, even if they're not all pro players.

You know, just it is very helpful to kind of go back to the team in which the coach came from. because in bringing up Josh Mattelis, who was an absolute standout on special teams, and then started to play in the secondary and was really good, too. His comp is Jeremy Reeves. And I thought Reeves played exceptionally well last year. And in the discussion just now of the possible safeties, you didn't mention Reeves. Is it possible that Reeves ends up with a much more significant role defensively?

And it could be, because one thing with, there's a couple things with Jeremy. One, I think if you want guys who play with passion and energy, kind of hard to find somebody who has more. Well, Mattelis was one of those guys. I mean, he played, yeah. And then he's also versatile. So that's why I say, like, I don't know how they view all these guys. But, yes, like, does he offer versatile?

Absolutely, he's smart, too. And so, you know, I think, yeah, you could use him in that role, too. I just, yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah. I mean, like you want, yeah, energy, smart, passion, all. I think it's interesting because, you know, when you get two new coaches, two new coordinators, I think there's always a possibility, not, there's always a possibility, even if you bring back a coordinator because of just maturity and young players become

different players, second, third year. But especially when you have new coaches, they can see. players differently than the predecessor. And so when you just mentioned Cain Madrano, I've talked a little bit about him, not that he's Van Ginkle because he's not. Van Ginkle is one of the one in terms of his anticipation, but he was a massive playmaker at UCLA in sort of that same way. You said safety and linebacker, and Van Ginkle's definitely more of a linebacker. But you just bring up guys like, who knows, maybe Durante Jones is in love with

Madrano or he's in love with Jordan McGee. I don't think we start to really know those things for sure until they start to play real games or if it becomes apparent based on somebody's with the starters consistently over a period of a week in training camp

or something. But those guys are possible. Like I've even mentioned Drake Jackson who they re-signed, brought back was a 49ers, you know, third round pick, has pass-rushing talent. You know, you never know. Or even a guy like the athlete, number 18

defensively. Why am I blanking? Owens, Tyler Owens. Like, somebody like that Durante Jones could fall in love with and ends up being a much bigger contributor than we think. That's always possible. Then it's like, okay, how do they,

you know, we know, we saw how some of them performed in a different system. Is that always the best thing for them? Now, sometimes you can feel like, okay, is this guy failing because of the system or failing because he's just now, he's just not doing the job, right? And there's always a difference, right?

And so that's part of it as well. And there are definitely, I mean, I think we've seen over the years how coaches always think they can make something of somebody. But I think if you have a realistic view of guys like, okay, this person has this skill. How can that skill help this defense? I think what you have is like Durante, the other thing is with Durante, and even though, like, I use the floor of stuff, he's been with a lot of really good defensive coaches. They all kind of come from a similar like Zimmertree, but they all are different with how they're approached,

from Van Joseph to Zimmer, the floor is all attacked differently. And so I think he'll bring a lot of that, but I do think the versatility in what you saw in Minnesota will be there. And then I think you add in what Dan Quinn is always favored on defense, which is that versatility. I think they'll tap, they'll try to tap into that wherever they can. And these guys, they drafted Madrano for a reason last year. Like it was ability to run.

Can he make some plays? But I think, you know, the questions were with him coming out was tackling, and then is he a safety or the linebacker. That was part of it. But in this defense, if you're, like, Quinn has always been kind of big on positionless football, not with everybody because it's not like basketball, but it's like there are definitely guys who are like, okay, maybe he's not a traditional this, but he can help doing that.

And I think that's where you get into this. And, like, I know they got styles and they got Chanel, so what does that mean for McGee? but McGee has some of that versatility as well. And so you can create packages for these guys and get more guys in the field who are able to do things. That's what Greg Williams used to do back in the day. He was really good at saying, like, hey, this guy can do this.

I'm going to have three packages for this guy, and boom, there you go. He may not be able to do a lot else, but this package is what I need from him. You can give me this. All right. Let's take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll talk about what's next, including getting John's thoughts about a certain wide receiver in San Francisco. We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you haven't done it, you don't mind sparing a few seconds to do it.

Rate and review this podcast. It's really big for us to get ratings and reviews. Following the podcast is huge for us as well. Just hit the plus button or the follow button. We continue with John Kime. All right, let's talk about Brandon Ayyuk. what do you think's going on? What do you think will happen there?

I don't know. Does anybody know? I don't, I think where it is, like, who knows? I don't think they really know, and everything is in what the Niners' hands, and they don't have to release him now. They can wait until after June 1st, and you can spread out your hit better. They're going to take a financial hit regardless. Well, they can wait, and I've pointed this out.

They don't owe him anything in terms of a payment until September 1st. So they could actually wait until August 31st to release him. The June 1 thing, they could release him now and designate post June 1. They can't do that with a trade and save on this right out of two years. But they don't owe him any money until September 1. And I've said this, John, a couple of times. I don't know how you feel. If I were a 49ers fan, I wouldn't just cut him loose to do him a favor or do

the team that signs him a favor? I'd wait it out. Unless it's a total distraction, which, you know, I think we always overrate for the teams how much these distractions really are and mean. I don't think any player out there

is going to be sitting there saying, oh my God, they haven't cut Brandon yet. Like it is August. If he's not around, it's not going to be a deal. It'll be a distraction, quote, unquote, from media maybe. I don't think they'll be an distracted player. But to your point, and I was talking with a group last night about the same thing.

I'm like, hey, let's reverse this. What if this was a... What if I had been with Washington and did all this stuff here, would you want him to... Would you want them to automatically release him so he can then possibly go help someone who compete for a playoff spot?

Of course not. And especially, like, now, if it was, let's say it was a guy who was a valued member here, like... That's different. That's different. That's different. You don't want to...

disrespect them because it doesn't help you as an organization. But this is a guy that literally people that are close to him are moving away from. We went through this with Haynesworth to a certain degree, but with Donovan McNabb in particular, where I took calls every day from people who said, this is wrong. They should do right by him. They should release him. And I'm like, why? Like, and ultimately, they got a sixth round pick for him, and that sixth round pick became

Alfred Morris. and so many people just wanted the organization to do right by him. Well, I mean, they paid him. Yeah, they paid him. They paid him. And he wouldn't wear a wristband to make it easier for himself. And he was out of shape. He was out of shape.

All right. Do you think that there is, let's just assume that there is some interest from Adam Peters and company in Brandon. I think we can assume that. Okay. Do you think there's a cutoff date where they say, all right, no more, we're not waiting any longer? And if so, when do you think that day is? That's a good question.

And I don't know the answer to, like, if there is a cutoff date at this point. So partly because, you know, before this point, you're kind of like, okay, get through the draft and will they then do something then because, like, I can see them going through the draft. Maybe somebody gives you a seven-round pick, whatever, right? Like, there's a chance of that with low chance but chance. So I don't know how long the way, but my thing would be, Kevin, let's say he doesn't, let's say they don't cut him until right before September 1st. That's really different. Like, it will have been almost two years before the guy has played a game.

Right. That's a lot. And so, like, one of the points I would make as well, you know, Noah Brown didn't come here until, like, wait. That's true. Yeah. But, but he had played the year before. Yeah. It wasn't as long, right.

It wasn't as long as you've been out. There were all these questions. The only question would know is like, is he going to be healthy, but like, you know, but there weren't all these other questions about him. So I just think that, you know, would you still take him then if he's free? Like, well, honestly, why not? You may as well take a shot at that point. You're not going to have to spend much.

And if he comes through, he comes through. And I don't think it's going to be, I don't think it's going to be a problem here for others. I think having Jayden here helps that because of how close they are. and Adam Peters knows them. So I still could see. But here's the other question is, and what if they sign, what if they get to a point? Like, we just want to get someone else in here.

You know, someone else is you need that other outside guy. And they go out and sign Juan Jennings. Well, then you're, then it's like, then to me that signals you're moving on. Because, you know, I just, I don't, I think at that point, you're just like, hey, get somebody in here. Yeah, that's the point. That's the point is that I think we all believe that there, not done on offense at wide receiver. Nor should they.

But, you know, if you're going to wait, and it's August 31st, they may say, we want them for the entire training camp, or it's, you know, it's not worth it. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Jay Gruden was on with me the other day and said, I'd have no problem bringing him in on September 1st. That's more than a week before the regular season. He's in an offense right now or was that's, you know, a Kyle Shanahan offense. that he means that he's not an idiot.

He can pick it up. He was an idiot to lose all that money. That's another subject. But would you go after a Jennings? Would you take a shot on Diggs if his legal issues clear up or a Keenan Allen or somebody like that? Well, I don't like, Keenan, like, no, because I think you, you know, not that I think the difference with IUC would be he gives you something you don't have.

And that's the one thing I'd wonder about with Jennings. and he's a good player. Yeah, not a comp to IUC, if you're getting IUC from 2023. No, no. But he's kind of like, he's the guy that, like, the big slot who can play, who plays outside as well. Like he's, you know, and he can help you on third down. He can help you in the Redsville.

Iuke is more of a big play guy down the field. So, like, there is, so if you want, so can you, can you get the production from your group that you would get from Jennings, whereas with Iyuk? He gives you something that nobody in this group has, right? Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. So I think, now, if Jennings better than Dehemi Brown and Trevor Brooks, well, he certainly has been, his career numbers suggest that.

But that's where I say, like, okay, would you wait for that? I'm not sure about Diggs. You know, I just, we'll see what happens with those legal issues. Yeah, I mean, the one thing I've said about Diggs is he's a short dose guy. There's no doubt about it. It's like one to two years, and that's it. But on game day, that dude's a badass competitor that helps you win more often than not, even if he's a pain in the ass, you know, eventually.

And the other thing is, I do like, it does sound like they have, like, contingency plans if they don't have IU, if they don't go. So what do you think the contingency? I don't know. But you think, you think, so you don't think that they go into the 2026 season with the wide receiver room. looking the way it looks currently, that there's going to be an addition to it. I would think you add another guy there. Because I don't, but again, like, and that's where I say, like, is it automatically another guy, or is it IU?

Again, I go back to the conversation we had earlier about Linderbaum and certain other players, like they were targeting the player not the position. Yeah. So, and I, you know, I don't, can anybody go in there feeling like, oh, gosh, problem solved the receiver at the top? No, I don't think so. But is it, you know, because where, I think Terry, when he played, was still effective last year. And I don't see, I didn't see drop off.

I just saw a guy who missed games because he was hurt. I didn't see a drop off. But at some point, you know, you're over 30. It's going to be drop off. When does that happen? I would put money on him this year that it's not, that he'll still be a good player. But then it's like, you know, where is the rest of the group? And is it akin to two years ago when you had a Lomede and then Noah Brown as your next two guys?

Like, at this point, a couple years ago, there's a Lomadee was coming off a year where he didn't catch anything. You know, like a few catches, and Noah Brown was even here. And those became your two and three top receiver on Beyond Terry. And I'm not saying that to say, like, oh, everything's great. No, you just like things can sometimes surprise you. and like what does Williams do in his role? Can he be a 40 or 50 catch guy right away? I think they feel really good about his route running for sure,

and that gives him a shot early on to contribute for sure. But then it's beyond that, like what if something happens to Terry, how do you feel if you have that guy? I think you'd have to say there's a lot of questions there for sure. You know, like, does McCaffrey progress? Does Traylon Burk being here for another year and working with Jaden in this group? Is he become a guy who can fill that role?

And then I think a lot of it, Kevin would be, okay, you also can use two and three tight-end sets a lot probably. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of ways that you can do it, but I would still feel a lot more comfortable if you got another receiver. But again, is it targeting receiver? As is saying, like, if this playmaker is available, then we want the playmaker. And I think that's, I say we as if I'm now. Yeah.

All right. Well, that leads me to my final question. And that is looking at the players that were on this roster last year who are still out there as unrestricted free agents. You know, one of them is Debo Samuel. He is not signed anywhere else. Noah Brown, by the way, speaking of Noah Brown, he's still out there. But that list includes Noah Brown, Chase Edmonds, Austin Echler, Sheldon Day, Jeff Driscoll, Jeff Driscoll, Zachertz, Eddie Goldman, Goldman, Antonio Hamilton, Bon Miller, Chris Moore, Debo Samuel, Preston Smith, Bobby Wagner, of course. I think that's the list.

Do you see any of them getting re-signed? I don't know, maybe. What about Debo? Let's say Iyuk falls through and Debo's just still sitting there. I mean, if you need a guy, I don't know that the door's been completely closed. It hasn't come up, and what I heard earlier on is like, you know, they felt like he was a better fit in Cliff Kingsbury's offense. So if that's the case, why would that be any different?

He was a good fit in Kyle's offense. I know. I know. So, you know, but if you need a guy, like, and you, I think it's a lot like Zach Earth. Like, if you need a guy and he's out there, like, all right, you know, they know, you know him, and they know you, you know, he knows them. So, but I, yeah, I think they wanted a more traditional type, especially a guy who can be a threat down the field. I think you feel like now with Oconquo, with Williams,

and even like Diombe is really good on screens. I mean, that was to me like his best attribute two years ago when he was doing something. He was really good on screen. And I think the screen game will be a bigger deal this year, but you have multiple guys who can help you there. And that's where Dibeau was supposed to be better, right? And so do you need what he has?

Or, again, do you go out and, like, are they targeting receiver or is it more just like you want what IUC offers? You know, and so like that's where I don't know. But like with the other guys, I just, Von Miller, hard to see. Like, look what they've done. Youth and athleticism up front.

Bobby Wagner, I mean, I know Quinn told me at the league meeting, like, oh, yeah, the doors open for him, but that's before they took Sunny Stiles too. And it was always like the role would, even if he came back, his role would have changed. It was not going to be in every down backer because you felt they've,

I know they really like Jordan McGee, and they have Sinal, and Louvo's still here. And if you're Bobby, and you want to play, like, you know, and people keep on this, it's time to be a mentor to Sonny Stiles. Like, I think if you're Bobby, like, wait a minute, I think I'm still better than that. Like, because if you come here, you're not playing. So, you know, he's not ready to be a coach. I think he wants to play. So I don't know if I'm him.

Why would I want to do that? You know, so I don't know that, you know, Sheldon Day is always a guy who seems to find his way back here because. They seem to like him. But I don't know that any of those guys are really, you know, who are those guys? You say, like, oh, yeah, you know, this guy is someone who can really still. Like Hamilton did a good job on special teams. You know, one game he played, that did a nice job.

Yeah. And that was special teams with his thing, but he's also over 30. Do you want to bring in guys like that at this point when the whole offseason has been about younger, more athletic? Thanks for doing this, as always. at John underscore Kime and follow him, read him, of course. And he's got a podcast too, the John Kime Report. There you go.

Which you can get anywhere you get your podcasts, including this one. Appreciate it. Let's run Brandon Ayuk watch, I guess. We'll see what happens. But your first point was the best one. It doesn't seem like anybody knows anything, really. But it's a second year we're going to be following a receiver throughout training camp. Yeah, well, people have pointed that out to me.

and I said, look, there's a big difference. Terry was always going to play for this team. He was under contract. Because, you know, it got positioned over and over again as, well, I want Terry on this team. Well, he is on the team. It's just whether or not he was going to be on the team with a contract extension or without one. And to your point, like, there really isn't anybody out there that has IUC's talent if he is close to what he was in 2023. because he's a game changer if you get that player, you know,

mentally and physically. I think it's going to be worth a shot. So if he's right, you got hit it. It's not going to be a big contract. It's not going to be a one-year-sized-old. No, highly incentivized. Yep, of course. And if, you know, so you're not going to be out a lot.

And it's also not going to be, if we're sitting there on our yuk watch throughout camp, it doesn't affect the current guys. They're not going to be sitting there like with Terry who's in the building. And, you know, you hear all this stuff, whatever. it's just a lot different. It'll be more for media than it is from that. All right. Talk to you later. Thanks. Thanks, Kevin. John Kime, everybody. Always a tough act to follow. But Eddie C is going to try to do it. Eddie C is back with his first of three Triple Crown Race previews.

He'll preview the Kentucky Derby after these words from a few of our sponsors. Tomorrow is Derby Day, the first of the Triple Crown Races, and back to share. his thoughts and his picks is our guy Eddie C. Eddie C. Eddie C has places in Saratoga, in South Florida. He certainly came out of the bowels of Montgomery County, Kensington would be the place in which he still calls close to home with lots of friends. Eddie C's a little bit mysterious.

He is certainly a handicapper at the elite levels for sure, and he's here to help us out before Derby Day tomorrow once again. I would encourage all of you to see everything that EdieC is involved in by going to pastthewire.com. So it's good to have you back. First of three Triple Crown races. Give me the big storylines heading into tomorrow's. 2026 Derby.

Well, first off, Kevin, always a pleasure to be on. I think this is six years in a row, and I've given some winners. Unfortunately, had a couple of second places. But, you know, this year's, I mean, to me, the big story of the Triple Crown and the Kentucky Derby,

it's actually more than preakness that's going to be coming up a couple weeks afterwards because it's going to be run at Laura race track to the first time ever. and, man, that's a big story. And we hopefully will get into that in a couple of weeks when we talk. But, you know, this year I think the big story is there's a potential freak in the race, but it could be a totally wide open race where you could get a nice high price,

you know, mid-level price and price in this race. We've already had two scratches this week. we could have a couple of other scratches because the favorite renegade has what they call a potential quarter crack and so they have to put a different shoe on him on on his feet and there's another horse that has a similar situation called Golden Tempo and I really like both of those horses coming into this and it's made me kind of change my thought process about how I'm going to go ahead and play

the race. Well, you said there's a potential freak in the race. Is that renegade? I think the potential freak is further ado. His numbers are off the charts compared to the field. He's one going away by more than 10 lengths in his races. He's incredibly well-bred. He's lightly raced.

he could, if he keeps improving, he just could be, you know, I'm not going to say that he could be secretary, but he could be a freak of a horse, me, I'm going against him because I think he could regress because he's so young and just ran such a huge race in his last race that sometimes horses that give that stronger than effort regress a little bit next time out. I mean, you just kind of went with could be a full. freak. You mentioned Secretariat, but you're going against further ado

because maybe after the recent race, it ran, it's not going to be ready for this one. I don't know. Was that straddling? Both sides? Well, as Lois would say, as Loose would say, I'm hedging.

As Loose would say, our good friend Carlos and Molina would say you're hedging. You're definitely hedging your bet. Right, so let's talk about the race. There are a lot of horses in this race. Right now, you know, the early odds that I see, it looks like there may be 22 horses in this race,

depending on, you know, what we end up seeing drop out before then. What is, do you know the answer to this? What is the biggest field ever at the Kentucky Derby, number of horses? I believe it's 20, maybe back in the early days. It could have been 24, you know, I'm going back to, like, you know, the early 1900s. But right now, the maximum is 20 horses for this year. They actually had 24 listed into the field.

Yeah. There's already two stretches, so that's why you see 22 potential. But the most that will run is 20. Okay. Is there any sort of storyline related to trainers? Well, you know, Bob Baffords back in the race, and he's got, he's got a horse called Potente, who's going to be on the lead. There's a lot of speed in this race. There's Potente, there's Pavlovian, litmus test, and the horse we just were talking about further ado,

and another horse called six-speed. further ado may not need the lead, but I think he could get eager and want to get on the lead. But Baffertoli's been a speed training, you know, a speed trainer. So, uh, Potente is going to go to the front and he could shot the world by, uh, getting a lead and not stopping. I don't think that's going to happen, but it's possible. Is it easier for a speed horse in a deep field with a lot of horses, than it is with a limited field? I would say yes, because, you know, the horses that are running behind them, mid-pack.

Too much traffic, right? They got to deal with traffic. So that makes it a little more challenging. But then sometimes the speed horses battle each other so much that they back up turning for home. and then that leads it to the horse that gets, you know, maybe the cleaner trip that's coming from off the pace. This has been, you know, an event that has been a bucket list event for so many sports fans. I've never been.

I know you have been. It seems like every year we see the list of luminaries, the list of celebrities, the list of celebrities grow with even many getting involved in owning and being a part of, you know, group that owns a horse. You're a big sports fan in general. Where does this one rank for you in terms of events to attend as a fan? I will say other than, and I won't name the nickname because I don't want to get anybody in trouble, but other than my Washington football team playing in the Super Bowl.

You can say Redskins. You can say Redskins on this show. Okay. Yeah. Well, I'll never call them anything other than the Redskins. Yeah. Other than I've never been to a Super Bowl where the Redskins have played, that would be the top of my bucket list, especially if they win. And then the Masters is definitely the next stepping stone.

And I'll tell you something very interesting. I went to the very first World Baseball Classic at the Marlins. stadium. Incredible, right? I've never seen an atmosphere like that. It was Venezuela, Puerto Rico, the USA and Cuba, and I've just never seen the euphoria of the fan bases. Yeah. That was awesome.

But other than that, the derby, yeah, the derby's right up there. I mean, I've been fortunate to go twice. I've been fortunate to be spoiled like a Columbia Country Club member there. so to speak, and I would never go. You're the worst. I would never go again unless I had that same entry-level, you know, spoilness. Right, yeah.

At this point in your life, you're not sitting with the masses. That's for sure. All right, size up the race and give me your picks. I think this race is, you're going to see. a very, very fast pace. There's, like I said earlier, four or five horses that are going to go to the front. You're going to see probably another four or five horses try to position themselves behind it, and then you're going to see a massive horses trying to close.

I've eliminated already like six to seven horses that I don't think have a chance. But I'm going to take a stand against some of the favorites, and I'm going to use some prices. And, you know, if I hit, we win big. If I don't. But there's a horse. Yeah, let's enjoy each other's company. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, so a horse called Golden Tempo, he's going to be sitting closer to the back part of the pack. He's going to be, I think, the best closer in the field. He's going to be flying late. I don't think he wins. but I'm definitely putting him in my exactives and trifectas. Okay.

There's a horse called Emerging Market. He's only raced twice. Very young horse, it's very unheard of of a horse like this to potentially have a shot to win. I think this horse has a big shot to win. I'm not picking him on top. I'm picking him again in my exactives and trifectives. commandment is the should probably go off as the second or third choice commandment is very accomplished just from the Florida Derby he's a very very good horse but I'm picking a horse that actually

came behind commandment in that race called Chief Wallaby Chief Wallaby is trained by Bill Mont he's going to have Junior Alvarado riding him they have been a great comment They've won a bunch of big races. And I just think this horse in his last race in the Florida Derby didn't get the best of trip. Was kind of blocked up and trapped and then came flying late and finished third, just missed. And you're going to get six, eight to one on Chief Wallaby, I believe. So I'm going Chief Wallaby on top. And I'm going to play Commandment, Emerging Market, and Golden Tempo.

underneath them. All right. Chief Wallyby at MyBooky, where you can bet the race at mybooky.com or my bookie.ag, use my promo code. DC Reload, D-C-R-E-L-A-D, and My-Booky will give you a

50% cash bonus when you sign up. Chief Wollaby right now, as Eddie said, between 6 and 8 to 1, it's actually right now at 7 to 1 plus 700 on. Chief Wallaby. That's the fourth choice. Renegades the favorite at plus 450 commandments at plus 500. And the horse that Eddie C said is a bit of a freak. Further ado is at plus 550. So right there at about

11 to 2 right now at MyBooky. MyBooky.ag, mybooky.com. Don't forget to use my promo code when you make a deposit. The promo code is DC Reload. The website for Eddie is the past, I'm sorry, past thewire.com. So much information on the 26th Derby. And it's absolutely worth going to. Thanks. As always, we'll talk in two weeks. I appreciate it. As always, Kevin, thanks so much. And yeah, The Preakness, big storylines there. So keep in touch with that. Good luck to everybody on Saturday. Eddie C., everybody, a man with a very, very strong handicapping reputation in these parts around the DMV.

All right, that's it for the show today, back on Monday.