The Kevin Sheehan Show - Kevin Responds to Del Rio

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

Kevin and Thom today with nuanced answers to the question of would you rather as a WFT fan be a 6-10 team that makes the playoffs or a 5-11 team with a top 5 pick in next year's draft? Kevin responds on the show and on Twitter to Jack Del Rio's social media claim that his defense is the best in the NFC East. Election odds, Ryan Kerrigan, expanded NFL playoffs, Juan Soto, and more on a rambling/unfocused "Sports Fix 2.0". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, it's Sports Fix Tuesday, Election Day, 2020. It's finally here. Tommy, from his fortress of solitude in lovely and beautiful and pleasant Frederick, Maryland.

I am live in our studios with a sore throat, but no temperature, Tommy, because I just took it. We've got a temperature taker out there, and it was 97.5. which is not 986, which is the old normal. I don't know if these machines are right, but I don't have a temperature. But I am and have been starting to lose my voice a little bit. But we move on, onward and upward, as they say. You know what? Well, this is the time when people get sick.

This is one of the reasons it's going to be a hard time, is if you got sick, normally you probably wouldn't think much of it. You know, a cold, a sniffle, anything like that. Now, everything sets, at least for May, everything raises alarms. So, you know, what it's typically normal behavior for most people around this time of year now becomes panic. I'm not panicking. Well, I mean, I don't mean exactly. I don't, now becomes a lot.

I'm knocking on wood as I say this. You know this about me. I'm knocking on wood. I'm a little bit superstitious, so I don't want to certainly jinx it. I just don't get sick that much. I never have. It's not that I'm in great shape or I'm so healthy. And I don't get sick that often.

I just don't. What? How old are you? How old are you? I'm old enough. I'm old enough. And by the way, I'm considering for the first time getting a flu shot. I am considering that.

Um, I, my wife got one. She's gotten one in recent years. And I don't know, my neighbor, my CDC neighbor just said, no, no, no, you should get a flu shot. I'm like, I've never gotten a flu shot. And I've never gotten. I haven't gotten a flu in years. He's like, you should get one this year. I first started getting the flu shot about seven or eight years ago.

And I had never had the flu ever. But I started to get it. And about three years ago. after I got the flu, sure enough. After I got a flu shot, sure enough, I developed the flu. That's what I'm concerned about. But it wasn't, it wasn't, it was a very mild case. I mean, you know, I mean, all the ancillary things, you know, the stomach problems, things like that.

I never had any of that. I had, I was a little run down, fever, and all the other stuff. But that's the only time I ever recall ever having a flu, and I did have a flu shot. Well, I've taken some Advil. My sore throat will be fine. I'm going to be fine. Okay, everything's fine. I do want to tell you... That's good because we're worried about you. I want to tell you real quickly before we get the show started in earnest about MyBooky.ag because it is Election Day and there are odds, Tommy. There are so many prop bets on the election at MyBooky.ag. I would urge you if you're looking for a place to wage or anything else for that matter, give MyBooky a shot. MyBooky. AG, first of all, is going to give you a bonus for signing up with them if you use my promo code, which is Kevin D.C. They're going to match dollar for dollar all the way up to $1,000 your deposit. So if you put in $250, they're going to give you an additional $250 to play with. You can put up

up to $1,000 and they'll give you an extra $1,000 to play with you. You have to use my promo code Kevin D.C. to qualify for that match. Now, the election odds, and this will be the extent to which we will talk about the election on election day, unless you want to talk about it in more detail. I'm not, I'm very interested in today and tonight, but I have no idea what will happen. I am not, I'm not going to predict this thing, Tommy, because I have no idea what's going on out there in the world and in our country right now today. Who knows what's going to happen? But Joe Biden is a solid at my bookie minus 160 favorite right now.

All right, that's not an overwhelming favorite. For those of you that don't understand, you have always asked me, please explain it every time you give these point spreads or money lines or odds. If you're betting on Joe Biden, he's the favorite. You have to wager $160. to win 100. If you're betting on Donald Trump, he is plus 120. If you wager $100, you would win 120 if he were to win the election. Now, the popular vote is a massive Democratic favorite, which everybody understands. The Democrats are going to, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, are going to win the

popular vote today, like Hillary did in 2016. They are minus 650 at my bookie. to win the popular vote, the Republicans, the comeback on that would be plus 375. That's just not going to happen. And then they've got a lot of prop bets on the various states. And the states that are being watched, you know, the swing states as they are known as. Pennsylvania is a big one, Tommy, tonight in the election. A lot of people believe whoever wins Pennsylvania really has the inside track. Biden is a minus 160 favorite in Pennsylvania, which by the way matches up with, you know, the general

election odds where he is minus 160 as well. So they're essentially saying if he can win Pennsylvania, he wins the general election. Some of the other states that are, you know, very important tonight, like North Carolina is a big state. People are really focused in on how North Carolina will swing. And right now Trump is favored in North Carolina at minus 160 and Biden is plus 120. Anyway, all of this available at mybooky.ag. If your shop, if you've got a place and they're not accepting election odds, go to MyBooky, get the bonus by using my promo code, Kevin D.C. And, you know, there's no sports tonight, right?

Are there any games tonight? I don't think there are any games. Are there any college football games Tuesday night? No baseball, no basketball, no hockey. Yeah, the only thing you can bet on today, Tommy. Is the election? Yeah. You know, could get exciting.

Anyway, do you have a prediction on the election? No, I have no prediction. And the days when I was a news reporter, this was typically the most exciting day of the year. Election day in a newsroom was a very exciting place to be. And I'm going to give you just one election story that is not very exciting and not very interesting. but just shows you how smart I am. So I was covering Western Maryland for the Baltimore Sun. I think it was 1990.

And Ron Young was the mayor of Frederick. And he had been mayor for three terms, very popular, powerful mayor. Okay. And he was running against sort of like an accountant, a bookkeeper type guy with not a lot of personality named Paul Gordon as a Republican. And, you know, I remember asking around and just getting a feel as to how the election was going and the night of the election. Because Frederick is farther out from Baltimore, I had to file my story early, you know, before we really knew who won. Right.

And, you know, they were saying down at the paper, well, you know, Ron, you know, this guy's not going to beat Ron Young. I think you're safe if you write that, you know, with votes coming in, it looked like Ron Young would get another term as mayor. And I said, you know, I don't think so. I said, you know, based on what I'm hearing, he's going to get beat. This other guy's going to win. And they kind of dismissed it. So I said, look, here's what I'll do.

I'll write a story as if Ron Young won. And I'll write a story as if the other guy, Paul Gordon, won. Right. And then at the last minute, you can make the decision if you've got an idea, if the results are in, as to which one is right. And sure enough, Paul Gordon won. So they ran the other story. But they wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for me. Right.

So that's, that's my best election story. Otherwise, it's all blur. It's all a blur. Yeah. It is, it's a wild day in our country today. I don't know. I'm sure in 1968 this country was on edge to a certain degree. It certainly was in the summer leading into the fall of 1968. Obviously, I mean, you were around. I wasn't for the election

during the Civil War when this country was fighting North versus South. And the country's been in very tenuous situations in the past. somehow we've always gotten through it. You know, I like I always tell you people, you know, this country went through a time where the president and the vice president, neither of them were elected. And everybody in the White House, except the president, went to jail. And there was no coup. There was no overthrow of the government.

It just kept going. That is true. Do you know that I'm just looking through this MyBooky site? got the 2024 odds already. Do you know who the favorite, the co-favorite to be the president in 2024 is with Joe Biden? Because they've got Joe Biden here. Joe Biden obviously could run for re-election if he was the president or he could run again if he wasn't. Joe Biden is plus 300 in the 2024 presidential election and he is co-favorites. Mayor Pete. I'll give you his odds in a moment. he is a co-favorit with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

Wow. Yeah, that's a big wow. In fact, I'm looking, you know, Nikki Haley's not listed on here. I think the Republican ticket in 2024 is Nikki Haley and probably Pompeo. That would be my guess in 2020. Oh, it depends if he's out of jail by that or not. not. Yeah, well, I don't know if he's going to jail. She's certainly not. But the Republicans that are on this list are Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Ivanka Trump, Kanye West. And that appears to be it.

the Democrats are favorite or the heavy favorites to win the 2024 presidential election on my bookie. Anyway, fun to look at all of the state-by-state picks too, especially some of the key states. You know, I was just scrolling through here. Maryland, I mean, you know, they haven't voted Republicans since Reagan in 84. You know, the landslide, the Reagan-84 election, right, was the only election Well, wait a minute. Mondale won one state in 72, right? He won Minnesota, his home state.

Am I right about that? Mondale didn't run in 72. I'm sorry, McGovern. George McGovern. Mondale in 84 also only won. Are both of those elections, one state elections? Because Mondale won Minnesota and that was it in 84. And that's the last time Maryland voted for a Republican in a general election.

But was McGovern the same thing, Tommy? I don't recall. McGovern was the first. That was the first election I ever voted at presidential election. It was 72. McGovern won 17 electoral votes. He won D.C. He won D.C.'s one electoral vote.

And it would appear as if he got... What about Bush and 80s? Well, Bush in 88 against Dukakis was not a... a landslide win. Are you sure? Yeah. I mean, it was a big win, but it wasn't a, Dukakis won states.

Dukakis won Massachusetts. Dukakis, I guarantee you, won some of the real liberal states, whether they were Minnesota or, you know, Washington or Oregon, some of those states. I'm pulling it up right now. Hold on. Dukakis, it was 426 to 111.

You're right. It was a landslide win. Yeah, it was a landslide. But he won. It's the last time anyone ever won. He won over 400. He won five, six, seven, eight, nine. He won nine states. He won his home state. Four, 26. Ten states. He won ten states. He won ten states. Yeah, no, you're right. Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Washington, Oregon. So I got some of them right for Dukakis in 88. There you go.

And, of course, the 92 election was the very famous election where Ross Perrault made a huge difference. Yes. In the popular vote, certainly Bill Clinton winning that election, but winning that election with, if I recall, like 42% of the popular vote. 43% I think. Was it 43? Okay. And what did what did Perrault get? 16%.

Something like that. Or 13, something like that. Right. Of the popular vote. Okay. Anyway, fascinating day in our country. Cities, major cities, boarding up, waiting for the absolute worst. If he pulls an upset, they are ready for what could be, you know, hopefully not, hopefully not unrest.

I don't know. I don't have a prediction on this thing, Tommy. Last time I did predict Hillary would win, and Cooley and I were doing the show in Cooley, I swear to God, the day of the election said, Trump's going to win this election. And I said, why? And he said, because everywhere I drive, all I see is Trump signs. That was basically his theory in Northern Virginia, where he lived way out in Loudoun County.

And, you know, he had been out west, you know, in Wyoming and places like that. And he's just like, I don't know. I think people aren't admitting. And that was his rationale, too. It was really interesting. He said, I don't think people are admitting that they're going to vote for Trump. That was on the day of the election. So he picked him.

Anyway, my bookie.ag, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. That was a long spot for MyBooky, but I really want you. If you're interested in betting and tread lightly, it's not for everybody, and you don't have a place. MyBooky is a safe place to wager. You'll get paid if you win, and it's a fair setup. Plus, you're getting a great deal to get those dollars, your investment, your deposit match dollar for dollar all the way up to $1,000. All right. I did a Twitter poll earlier today.

Well, before you get started with the business, I have a housekeeping question. Okay. Did you ever finish watching Yellowstone? No, no. You didn't? No. I watched the first three episodes and I haven't gotten back to it yet, which should tell you that, and I told you at the time, I really liked it. And I was intending on getting through it, Tommy.

and I just, I haven't. I can't, I don't know. It's like the last few weeks have been, I just haven't had a lot of time to get to it. I'm going to try to. Well, I'd rather see you watch Sneaky Pete. I know. Which is, I think it's much for up your alley.

Although Yellowstone, like I said, at some point, it turns into, it's like a Gambino mob war. Right. It's just unbelievable the amount of people to get killed in Montana. I mean, it's just stunning. But I watched this another series.

It's a mini-series, seven episodes, one, you know, and that's it. It's very popular right now on Netflix, called The Queens Gambit. I think I've heard of that. And it's good. It's about chess, but very intense. It's about this female chess player. And it's based on a story by Walter Tevis. Walter Tevis is the guy who wrote the book, The Hustler,

which they made into a movie with Paul Newman. With Paul Newman, yeah. Right. I think he would like the Queen's Gambit. It's seven episodes. It's about chess, the game of chess? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Are you a chess player? I mean, no. I've played chess. I know how to play chess. It's funny. I learned how to play chess at my local park when I was a kid from one of the counselors. there at Danesbury Park in East Strausper.

That's how I played chess. I learned, and we played all summer. So I know how to play. I told my kids how to play chess, but it's not a big game. Although my wife and I are talking about starting to play after watching the series. Well, it's funny because at the beginning of the pandemic, one of the things, I did play chess when I was a kid, but I had not played in years. That's not true. Every once in a while.

Like, I don't know, you're on vacation and you're with people. friends and somebody has a chess board and you end up playing. But it's not like I'm really good or an expert or anything. But when I was young, especially in elementary school, I remember it was a big deal. And there were a couple of friends of mine who were really into it. So I learned how to play when I was in elementary school. And during the beginning of the pandemic, one of my boys said,

well, you teach me how to play chess? And I taught him. And so, I don't know, for a couple of weeks there, we were playing a game every, you know, other day. And it is a great game. I enjoy it, but it's something I got away from. I'm not cut out for chess. It requires a certain type of mental capacity that I seem to lack.

I don't think you would lack it. No, no. I don't have the patience or the patience for analytical things. Well, yeah, patience is something you don't have. That's true. And this game can be really a test of patience. Yeah. And if you're really a good player, it takes, beyond analytics, it is, okay, let me go through every single move I can make here and determine which of the moves I should make that would be the best strategy.

And that just takes too much effort and patience for you. You're very. But I would recommend to everybody, the Queens Camp. Okay. I think people would like it. All right. You know, I think over the years I found that once football season starts, I end up not being a consumer of a lot of television shows or movies. But once it is over, then I start to get into all of that stuff.

And I started Yellowstone basically, I mean, it's two months ago that I told you, hey, I watched the first three episodes of Yellowstone. And it was good. It was good. I mean, it's not particularly good, but it's compelling. Well, first of all, that's a different, you know, way of describing it and presenting it than you did the first time. You were like, you're going to love it. You're going to really love Yellowstone. I don't think I ever said it was good.

Yes, you did. No. Yes, you did. You said it was good. Why would I have watched it? Other people said it was good. I'm not going to say you were the only one, but I pretty much remember you were the first one to tell me that. Yeah, I don't think I ever said it was good.

Okay, whatever. I said it was good. You said Kossner was good. You said Kossner was really good. Yeah, but I like Kostner and everything. Okay. So I put an election day ballot out on my Twitter this morning, and I took calls on the following question.

Right. On the ballot today for Washington football fans, your choice, six in ten and the playoffs were five and 11 and a top five pick. You have to vote for one. Six and ten in the playoffs. 5 and 11 and a top 5 pick. And as of this recording of the podcast, we've got 2,500 votes in so far. And 58.6% say they'd rather have the top 5 pick and not make the playoffs as a 6 and 10 team.

Well, your listeners are smart then. No, they're not. That's not my choice. That'd be my choice. I know it would be. I would have predicted that to be your choice because you don't, you know, you just want to, You look for the path of least resistance, and you look for any excuse to lose. So there you go.

Where's the nobility in taking the hard road? Well, because it makes the fruits of victory that much sweeter. Oh, this is such bullshit. So here's my rationale. If that's true, how do you explain the joy of mom? money won gambling as opposed to money won working? Well, first of all, money, you don't win money working. Okay. Money earned.

You earn money. And there is a lot of satisfaction in earning money. But, I mean, compared to hitting a jackpot? Well, I mean, it's apples and oranges here. Well, no, it's not. One is, one's a major risk that includes a lot of drama and a lot of drama and lot of angst. And so, you know, the other is, can be rather mundane. Yes, I know, but it's a harder, it's a harder path. Yeah, let me make sure that everybody that has listened to this show and

these shows that I've been involved in with Tommy or Cooley or anybody else over the years. My recommendation is to work hard and earn it, not think you can walk into a casino and win it. because the odds are stacked against you, and you will end up in the streets begging for money so that you can buy yourself a roast beef sandwich. I'm not advocating. I'm saying this notion of the harder road being a more satisfying. It's not. It's a fairy tale.

Okay. So maybe that's a wrong way to describe it. Let me tell you why I think, well, not think, that I absolutely didn't even give it much thought. I would take six and ten in the playoffs. First of all, last year, I was very much an advocate of playing well, but losing to the Eagles and the Giants at the end of the year to make sure that they had a chance to draft Chase Young. That's different because they weren't going anywhere. They couldn't go to the playoffs.

There was a regime change that more likely than not they were on the verge of making. And it was, you know, I rooted for Dwayne Haskins to look good, the team to play well, but lose to the Giants, damn it, because you don't want to have to face Chase. young the next 10 years. You won him on your team. But the regime change has been made. The culture change, we hope, is underway. The young players that are here are going to be important for them if they were ever going to win. They have a chance to play meaningful games. I think there's a lot of value that comes out of playing meaningful games in November and December versus what we're used to here, which is a franchise that plays, you know, complete, meaningly. games at the end of most years.

And I think guys like Montes Sweat and Chase Young and Duran Payne and Cole Holcomb and all the young players that are playing right now would benefit significantly by being in the hunt and competing and then achieving it and then

potentially playing in a playoff game in January. I absolutely think there would be huge benefit in that. Now, 5 and 11, first of all, you know, what I'm saying is that you would end up with the top five pick. We know how the draft is.

It's a crapshoot. Justin Jefferson may have been the best wide receiver taken in the draft this year. He went 22nd overall to Minnesota. Have you watched T. Higgins in Cincinnati? He went in the second round. We know that you can find players later in the draft. I want this team to compete. I actually see the arrow as pointing upward.

I made this analogy with you the other day, comparing it a little bit to Marty's team. team in 2001. I see some similarities. And I'd like to see them play really good football and be in the hunt and then actually make the postseason. I'd much prefer, much prefer that. Well, I can tell you haven't given this much thought because, for one thing, they have played in meaningful games in December in recent years.

2016, 2016, yeah. So they have done that. And it's been an exercise in futility. The second thing is, did you want them to trade Ryan Carrigan at the trading deadline? I absolutely want them to trade Ryan Carrigan at the trade deadline. Did you want them to trade Dwayne Haskins? If they're not, if they've given up on him, which I believe they have, I absolutely would like to see him trade Dwayne Haskins, if anybody's interested in Dwayne Haskins. If Landon Collins had been healthy, would you want to have seen them trade them?

Cooley felt like they should. I would have probably been against that, depending on, I'd have to know what you could get back for him. I actually thought, I think Landon Collins has talent and could be a part of something if they're ever good. So you're in favor of a talent dump for more draft picks, but you want them to make the playoffs. Well, it's not a talent dump. You're trading players that aren't really contributing. that much anyway and aren't going to be on your roster next year. I'm not advocating that they trade Chase Young or Geron Payne or Terry McClure.

Of course they're not going to trade players who are going to be on their roster next year. Right. But, you know, I mean, this is very subjective that they're not contributing. How many sacks is Ryan Carrigan have? He's got four sacks. He's got more than Chase Young. Yeah. Do you think he's contributing more than Chase Young?

No. Okay. But he's contributing. So that's no, I mean, you're talking about it. both sides of your mouth? No, I'm not. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. You are. How do I? But you are. First of all, the way you described it, you could make the case that I'm talking at both sides of my mouth, but that would assume that I'm trading players that are really going to be significant and contribute to the playoff run, which I would not do. I would not trade players

that I think would be significant towards a playoff run. But you're also making a, you're also, you're also, You're also making a big assumption that they're not trading a player for a player that could contribute. Oh, yeah. Okay, so just remember that. Yeah, that's a big assumption. No, I mean, I absolutely want them to be sellers of players that aren't significant contributors and won't be on this team next year. Absolutely. Do I think it's going to happen?

Not Ryan Carrigan, Tommy. There's no way the owner's going to let them try. Ryan Carrigan and his golf tournament and his, you know, jersey, you know, retirement year. That retirement year, he's already thinking up ways to have Ryan Carrigan and his retirement year here make money off of that. You want to prove to me that you become a real football organization? Trade Ryan Carrigan today. And that would prove to me they are becoming a real football organization. I would love to see it just so it would confirm to me, at least for the moment, that Dan Snyder is not pulling the strings, that Ron Rivera said, hey, we got a conditional sixth. You know, we got Cameron Curl in the seventh. We got Jimmy Morland in the seventh. We got Cole Holcomb in the fifth. We got a conditional sixth rounder. This is a good for a guy who really, if you watch the tape in the limited snaps, isn't overly impressive in Ryan Carrigan.

Well, I mean, I just think you're not being honest with yourself. If you say you can do both. What do you mean? You can't. What do you mean? Of course you can. No, you can't. What do you mean you can't?

You can't declare that making the playoffs is more important. And then in the same sentence, you want to trade the talent that's going to help you make the playoffs. It's not going to help you make the playoffs. I'm not advocating trading, trading players that are going to help you make the playoffs. And you know this how. If Chase Young gets hurt, you know this how? If Chase Young gets hurt, they're not going to make the playoffs. Really?

He's had that kind of an impact. Absolutely. Oh, okay. Yeah. He is already, through the games he has played, a dominant player. Dominant. And if they lose him, they're not going to make the playoffs. Okay.

Okay, let's say Montez Sweat gets hurt on the other side. That also would add. add to real problems of them making the postseason. You just took their two best players. Pain and Sweat are their three best players. I said forget Chase Young. Yeah. Now we're on Montez Sweat.

Yeah, well, he's one of their three best players. So it would certainly impact their ability to make the players. He's certainly one of their best five players. And you can replace him with Ryan Carrigan. No, you can't now. No, I'd rather replace him with James Smith Williams. I'd rather replace him with somebody else. Absolutely.

100%. You're not going to be honest about this. You know how I feel. I'm not a big Ryan Carrigan fan. I like him. I think he's been a really good player. I don't think he's a good player anymore. And if you can get a conditional sixth rounder for him, you trade him. You absolutely trade him. He can come back for, you know, Ring of Honor Day. He can come back for his golf tournament. Teams that are on a playoff run. Do not do that. Do not do what? Do not trade their town. That's not true. Teams who are in the playoff hunt can be sellers of players that aren't contributors for picks that they get in the future. He's not a contributor. That's bullshit.

I don't think he's much of a contributor. I don't. And clearly, Tommy, the snap count indicates they don't think he is either. He's got 23 snaps in the last two games. Has he been productive on the snaps? Yeah, but if you watch the tape, he's fallen into some of that stuff too. Look, Ryan Kerrigan's been a nice player for them. He's never been an elite player.

Ryan Kerrigan's far from even a productive player at this point in his career. Now, as a backup for a contending team where they're going to put him in there and say, 4-3 defensive end, we're hurting. You're contending for a playoff spot. Look, Tommy, I don't even think anybody would give up anything. for Ryan Kerrigan. So I think it's a moot point. I also don't think... You are contending for a playoff spot. You're a contending team and you're going to trade them. Okay, not all contending teams are one and the same. Okay, let's inject some nuance into this conversation, please.

First of all, I want them to try to make the playoffs. I want them to move forward being a competitive team, and I would prefer... You have to do that. And I would prefer six and ten over five and eleven and a miss. I would prefer six and ten in the playoffs over a miss at five and eleven. At the same time, I am not going to pass on selling players who aren't contributors, aren't big contributors at all to my team now and aren't going to be on my team next year if anybody's interested. I'll grant you that. You can't do both. You can't say you're in favor of both. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. I just did. Can because you just did. Yeah. Right.

But it doesn't have to make sense. Well, it absolutely makes sense to some people. It doesn't have to make sense to others. It clearly doesn't make sense to you. You're missing the nuance here. I always do. You're also... That nuance, that hidden part of the equation, you know, I just like the dog with...

You don't have the, you know what? You don't have the patience for it. You don't have the patience for it. I know, but you do. Yeah, you don't have... You do not have the... refinement and the in the understanding of nuance and subtlety. You're just way too disheveled and impatient a person. That's it. I'm a dummy. You're not a dummy. I didn't say you were a dummy,

but you don't have the patience for exploring anything outside of the realm of black and white. There's some gray there. The gray is, yeah, I would be a seller of plastic. players that aren't going to be on my team next year and aren't really, according to the coaching staff and snap counts, big contributors on the field. Now, do you want to take Ron Rivera's description of Ryan Carrigan being this great locker room guy and say that would be valuable to the playoff push? Okay. But I'm sick of locker room guys like Alex Smith and Ryan Carrigan. I don't want, they're not helping me win games. I need to establish a culture of winning.

You know what would help? Is playing in a playoff game? Do you agree that if you play in a playoff game, that that is the beginning of like you want your culture to include playing playoff games? So why not start this year? Listen, Kevin, if you do the math, of course, you have to make the playoffs in order to move into playoffs in order to play in a championship game, of course. but it hasn't helped this organization in 20 years.

No, what I'm saying, though, is forget the championship thing. I'm saying, you're saying, yeah, in order to build a culture, you want your team to make the playoffs. Well, that's simple math, Kevin. Of course. But in this case, in this situation, in this year, it's meaningless. It's not meaningless. And that's my point, is that with a young team,

with the arrow, especially on defense, pointed upward with a bunch of young players and a new coaching staff trying to establish a culture of winning and competing and contending. I don't care how miserable the division is. The bottom line is, if you're playing, let's just say the Panthers on December 27th in a game that you have to win to continue to keep your playoff hopes alive, that's better than playing the Panthers. and hoping to lose the game to improve your draft position. That's fine last year with people who weren't going to be back and a whole regime change, and you were 3 and 12, 3 and 11 whenever you were playing that game.

If they are sitting there and they are, let's just say, 5 and 9, and by winning one of their final two games, they can qualify for the postseason, I want them to play in those games. I want them to feel the importance of playing in those games and get used to it rather than just playing out the string. Play for stakes versus play out the string. The former is better for the long term and for the culture. A six and ten playoff team is a delusion. It will have no meaning whatsoever.

Plus, in that Carolina game, I'll give you some nuance. the guy who wins the game for you who sacks the quarterback causing him to fumble is Ryan Carrigan. Ryan Kerrigan is going to There's some nuance for you. Ryan Kerrigan's going to make the big play against Teddy Bridgewater or is he going to be playing for the Panthers and sacking Kyle Allen.

Which one is it? No, I don't like you can talk me out of some things every once in a while. You're not talking me out of this one. I don't care if it's six in ten. You know what? I don't give a shit if it ends up being 5 and 11. You know, there's still a chance four and 12 could win the division, I think.

But I am absolutely wanting this to continue to be a competitive and then a contending for a playoff spot season. That's what I'm hoping for. I wanted to mention one other thing on this, because I got a lot of questions about this on the show this morning, people saying and tweeting to me, look, I'd much rather to be the six and ten in playoff team because there's not that much difference in draft position between six and ten and five and 11, which is a rational, reasonable assumption, but that's not the way the draft works.

The draft works with taking your non-playoff teams of which there will be 18, and those teams get picks one through 18, okay, based on record. then you take your 14 playoff teams and for the remaining 14 selections of the first round, you then do it by record. So if Washington qualified for the postseason at 6 and 10, they couldn't pick any earlier than 19th. So just so everybody understands that. And by the way, if they did qualify for the postseason at 6 and 10, they would be picking 19th. They would be the first playoff team to pick because they'd obviously

have the worst record of the playoff teams, unless they got to the Super Bowl, and then it changes, then you've got to have a bottom two pick. But I wanted to mention two other things about this. Number one is this. Ron Rivera at Carolina did one thing consistently, and that is his teams improved during the course of the year. His December record in a regular season at Carolina was 24 and 12. Remember who, you know, the other coach we had for a long period of time that was his teams were much better at the end of the year than they were early in the year. That was Joe Jackson Gibbs. That was a constant during the Joe Gibbs era of them playing their best football at the end of the year. And I think one of the reasons Rivera talks about that

2014 season so much is that they were playing their best football at the end of the year, even though they were 3-8-1. They won a division at 7-8-1. They won a playoff game and then went to Seattle, the number one seed, and had Seattle on the ropes. in the second half. And so he's remembering that. I'm not suggesting that that's going to happen. I think if they got to the postseason and played the Saints at home as a four seed versus a five seed, they would lose that game. But who knows what it's going to look like in January? I'm just pointing out that Rivera's, you know, one of Rivera's constants in Carolina was playing their best football at the end of the year. You're right. Secondly, on the draft choice, we keep forgetting. We keep

getting this. And I think you may have brought it up before anybody else with me anyway. And somebody reminded me of this while I was taking calls on the radio show this morning. They may not have a first round pick next year. Once this Beth Wilkinson investigation is over, we don't know what it will lead to. It certainly is possible that the organization, based on the findings, could be fined and could be docked draft choices. Yes, it is. It is possible.

So just remember that. That's some nuance you got there. You don't have the patient for it. It would be in nuance there with that one. All right. A few things, too, to get to on the show. Jack Del Rio tweeted something out. I don't know if you saw this,

but we have to talk about that. Adam Schaefter had a very interesting report about the Ryan Carrigan possibilities for a trade on Sunday that I want to ask you about because I thought it was an odd way to write a story. Bill Belichick is making excuses in New England for a team that's pretty much dead, and I do want to talk about the game last night because it was a controversial ending. We'll do all of that and more right after this word from one of our sponsors. A hodgepodge, if you will, of things to touch on the rest of the show here.

I'm just going to hit you with one after another. You ready? Let him at him. All right, let's start with Jack Del Rio. Jack Del Rio, your favorite. What's your nickname for Del Rio? I forget. Voodoo Jack.

Voodoo Jack. So Jack Del Rio, oh, my God, there's no way that he took this tweet down. Are you serious? Did he take this tweet down? Did he really? The one of responding to Brian Baldinger? Yeah. He did not.

some of the crap that he's left up there and he took that down? I just noticed this. Hold on here. No. Well, he didn't take the tweet down completely. What he did take down was what he was retweeting. So I think he attempted to take it down, but his response as he retweeted is still there.

So let me tell everybody what I'm talking about. Brian Baldinger, who played the NFL and has been a media member for a while, I don't even know who he's working with now. Does he call games for Fox? I think he may. You know, he's a really nice guy because there was this show that I used to do 10 years ago. When you and I were doing a show for about two or three years, I did this ESPN U show, which had an NFL thing.

and there was this other like mid-Atlantic networks something show that I did with Baldinger like once a week for like two years. Anyway, to make a long story short, Baldinger after the Giants game last night, said that the Giants have the best defense in the NFC East and it's not close through the first half of 2020. By the way, I do think the Giants have a pretty good defense. I really do. Their one in seven mark is misleading because they play harder and they play better than that. We'll have a conversation about Daniel Jones here in a moment.

But he tweeted that out in Jack Del Rio, your defensive coordinator, retweeted it and put an emoji with a magnifying glass over one eye and said, love you baldie as in baldinger but it's still here dot dot dot dot dot dot it's that that response is there what he was retweeting is not there anymore don't you see that go to del rio's uh are you on del rio's twitter page yes okay so he doesn't ball what he was retweeting isn't there oh now it is yeah it's there okay it wasn't there for a second whatever. Well, you know, I mean, you got to have patience. I got to have patience.

It really wasn't on me. It said it had been, it said it was down or deleted. What he had re-tweeted. I believe you, Kevin. Maybe he just took it down. Maybe he took it down and then he put it back up when he realized that he couldn't take the whole thing down. I don't know. Anyway, I mean, what is it about coming here?

I'm sure other fans of other teams losing. teams, you know, probably have similar gripes to the ones we have. But what is it about people who come here? Reputable people who they get here and they're in a losing environment. The team is two and five, you know, Jack. All right, Jack, your team is two and five. Your defense is pretty good. And I think it's going to be really good by the time we get to next year and beyond. And I think it's well coached. But why would you retweet and respond? bond to a media member saying that there's a better defense than yours in your division. And oh, by the way, you're playing that team this weekend. Why would you do that?

Why can't you just stay off social media unless it's all benign stuff? I don't get it. Why does this organization just have one after another of the overpromisers and the underdeliverers? That's all we've gotten for 21 years. Big talk, mouth running, social media mouth running, and no backing it up. Like, hey, Jack, and Tommy, I swear to God, if I had him on the show, and I've asked for him before. I would say, why would you do this? Why would you respond to somebody who's saying your defense isn't the best in the division when your team is two and fucking five?

Like, seriously. I know this bothers me more than it does some of you, and I think he's a damn good coach. I do think he's a good coach. But just love you, Baldy, but basically what he's saying is, hey, Baldy, you're wrong. We've got the best defense in the NFC East. It is great to think that way.

I would never discourage him from thinking that way and internally with his team talking that way. But why would you go public by essentially saying, no, no, no, the giants don't have the best defense. We do. When you're two and five, good God. I know, this really sets you off. It's just, it's not, it's such the opposite of the way I'm wired when it comes to competition. Like, it's always, show me, don't tell me, okay? Prove it with your actions, not with your tweets or your words. At the end of the year, if you've got the number two defense in the league and you just got to the NFC championship

game by beating the Saints 17 to 6 and by beating the Seahawks 21 to 7 because your defense was dominant, I'll allow an occasional, you know, chest thump and backslap of yourself. But not now, dude. You're two and five. You're in the worst division in football. And that defense Who cares if Brian Baldinger thinks the Giants' defense is the best in the division? Why do you need to respond to that publicly? Don't you think the Giants will look at this and say, He, team we're playing this Sunday, that we just beat, that we just beat two weeks ago?

He thinks their defense is better than ours. Why would you even do that? What did the Giants do against us, too? Defensively. Well, they turned us over twice. I know Kyle Allen had two turnovers in that game, right? And you know how many turnovers Daniel Jones had? Only one.

But the defense was pretty good in that game. Oh, actually, the Giants were 7 for 11 on 3rd down. That's what I'm going to, I'm going to respond right now to him saying the Giants, the team you're playing, was 7 for 11 on 3rd down against your team two, against your defense two weeks ago. And I'm a believer in defense. Put voodoo jack in there too.

Why do they do this? Why? Well, I mean, this guy's nuts. He's a good coach, though. Tommy, he's a good coach. I know, look, I know that, but he's nuts. He's mentally unstable. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, of all the tweets, this is the one that bothers you.

Well, look, the political stuff, the political stuff from months ago, I thought was dumb on his part. I kind of agree with him in a way. Oh, I do too. I think Washington's defense is better. I'm not disputing the information. I just would rather he not say it publicly. So go ahead and tweet it right now. I am.

As we're talking. I am. And put the hashtag voodoo jack in there. No, I'm going to do. Go ahead. You don't have the nerve, do you? He's not going to know what that means. I know that.

But you and I will know what it means. And the hundreds of thousands of people listening to your podcast will know what it means. Hold on. Hold on. I just want to get a couple of other stats from the game. Oh, come on. You got what you need. Yeah, I got what I need.

You got damn right. I got what I need. You know what Richie Pettibone told us. Third down is everything, baby. That's where you win and that's where you lose. But here's the problem is they are really, where are they right now on third down numbers? Yeah, but they weren't that day. This is a great podcast right now.

They weren't that day. They were in my good. They are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14th on 3rd down in the league. So, in certain... Oh, let's have a parade. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

We're the Giants on 3rd Down. Oh, they're at the bottom of the league. The Giants statistically are not great on defense. I actually think they're pretty good in defense when you watch them. I mean, you know, just in watching the game, I don't think the Giants. suck defensively. And actually, in the traditional stat of yards allowed, they're in the top half of the league,

Washington is fourth. But yeah, I'm going to send it. What did Richie used to, what did Richie tell us? Richie, I mean, paraphrase, basically. You win and lose on third down. The Giants were, the great, the great Richie Petitit, B-O-N. B-O-N. B-O-N-A.

I know. The teams, and I'm going to say parenthetically, the team's greatest defensive coordinator. Yes. We can agree on that. Defensive coordinator. We can agree on that, babe, as Ritchie would say. Okay. I just sent it.

Oh, boy. What? You're going to be on Voodoo Jack's list now. I didn't hashtag Voodoo Jack. I know. I mean, just show me, coach. Just show me. All right?

Let's go. I believe in him as a coach. I believe in this defense. Let's switch to the game last night, which I watched, actually. It was a good game. It was a good game. And just like you said, when you watch the Giants, you gain a certain impression of the Giants.

Right. Okay, based on watching both teams, who's closer to being good? You mean Giants or Washington? Yes. That's a really, really good question. Not statistically. I mean, just from your eye, just from watching them play. You know what?

I think Washington. Okay. But I say that, look, as far as this. this season goes, they're lost last night, they're one and seven, they're pretty much done. Okay? It doesn't mean that they're not going to be competitive in games like they have been. You know, the Giants have been competitive in a lot of games that they've lost. Yes, they have.

They've lost two or three point games. Oh, my God, yeah. A number of them. They lost last night by two on a controversial call, which we'll get to. They lost to the Eagles by a point after they blew an 11 point lead in the fourth quarter. They had the Cowboys dead to write, not saying much. They played the Rams stuff. And I remember the Chicago game in week two.

They actually were pretty effective. You know, I think that it's really, really close. Obviously, the question comes down to whether or not you're a believer in Daniel Jones. Because I don't know enough about Joe Judge yet to know if they got the coach right. I think that's fair, right? Other than they're playing very hard and they're a competitive team, and they've had a lot of injuries. I mean, their best player, you know, they don't have. have in Sequin Barclay. And last night, Devante Freeman, who's been playing well, wasn't available.

They had Alfred Morris out there last night. And they've had, yeah, and they've had, you know, receivers hurt in and out. So I don't know enough about Joe Judge other than to say that I think at this point it's been fairly impressive. The question can only be answered if you have a definitive opinion on Daniel Jones one way or the other. Because, we don't even know who Washington's quarterback is going to be. Yeah, that's that's a big deal right there. I think the Giants look a little bit better. Well, that means you're a believer in Daniel Jones.

But he makes it hard. He is, I mean, this could be the NFL's turnover festival this coming Sunday between him and Kyle Allen. I, so. So I have been saying all year long, Going back to last year, there's something about Daniel Jones. I see something in Daniel Jones. All the mistakes, I see those two.

It's funny, somebody, a friend of mine last night who I played golf with three weeks ago, and we were having this conversation on the golf course about Daniel Jones, and I said, I think he's going to be a good quarterback. I think he's going to be in this league for a long time. And I think he's got, you know, there's something to him. I think he's a playmaker. I think he's got the arm strength. I think he's got some moxie.

but he's really like he's a playmaker. He makes plays. Now, he's a young quarterback. He just started his 21st game, and he absolutely is making a lot of the mistakes that young quarterbacks make. And maybe this is him. And if it is him, it will be limiting for the rest of his career. If he can improve on that, there's talent there, Tommy.

There's legitimate talent there. He drove that team down the field at the end, there's 70 yards, and threw an absolute. dime to Golden Tate for a touchdown. And then on the next play, he was late on the throat of Dionne Lewis. Should have been P.I. We'll get to that in a moment. And they ended up losing on that. And he threw two back-breaking picks in the second half. And, you know, he fumbled at the right, didn't he fumble at the end of the Eagle game, I'm pretty sure, late when they had a chance.

So, you know, there is some, I mean, put it this way. If you told me right now, that Daniel Jones was our quarterback, then I would definitively say, I feel better about Washington right now than I do about the Giants. Because I think I feel better about Washington's defense moving forward than the Giants' defense, even though I like the giant defense.

But, yeah, the Daniel Jones thing is the difference maker. If you believe that the Giants look better and have a better future, it's because you believe in Daniel Jones. If you think that they don't, it's because you don't believe in Daniel Jones. he's a very polarizing, you know, conversation. People are either, yeah, there's something there, or you can't turn the ball over. He turns it over at the worst possible times.

Oh, I mean, the turnovers last night were horrific. Yeah, the two picks were bad picks. Terrible. Bad picks. The two-point conversion, what was your impression of it? Do you think the flag should have been picked up, yes or no? No, I think it was past interference. Yeah, I do too.

I absolutely do too. I think that there was, first of all, there was, it's not debatable. The Winfield Jr. contact happened not simultaneously, as the referees explained to pool reporters after the game. That's inaccurate. It happened just a split second before the ball got there. He also didn't turn his head until after the contact was made. And then the ball did hit him in the back. shoulder. But the contact, don't debate it. The contact did it happen before the ball got there.

Now, was it a bang, bang play? And if they hadn't called it on the field, would I have been like outraged? I would have said they missed it. But it wasn't the worst miss I've ever seen. But the fact that they threw the flag and called it that way meant that they saw what I think a lot of people saw. A lot of people are debating that, hey, you know, I just don't like to see that called. It's a bang, bang play. But nobody's really debating whether or not Dionne Lewis was contacted before the ball got there, because he was, which is technically interference. I thought it should have stood. I thought the Giants should have tied the game and it would have been 25, 25, you know, here we go to overtime or maybe Brady wins it on the next possession. It's a good

football game. It was. It was better than what people expected, considering how good Tampa's been playing and they're playing the Giants. And I don't want to get into this because we can do this on Thursday. But we can just, you know, since we're talking about the Giants, you know, I predicted, and I don't feel real great about this prediction, but I'm not backing off it, that this Washington football team would finish 3 and 13. Right. Okay.

And granted, I don't feel great about that based on how bad the, the, rest of the NFCE still remains to look. But if you don't beat the Giants on Sunday, then you're much closer to 3 and 13 than you were this week. I agree. I think it's a massive game. Got to beat the Giants. This has got to be one of your wins.

Definitely has to be. I mean, it doesn't mathematically have to be, but in terms of whether or not, I mean, put it this way, if they lose Sunday, I'm going to feel like my, my, feeling of the last two weeks, like, hey, I think that this could be a Marty Schottenheimer kind of year. It will go away. It will have been a fleeting thought.

Yeah, because, because, I mean, look, I mean, the lions are a mess, but they have a great quarterback. The Bengals are the Bengals, but they have a terrific rookie quarterback. They're going to be playing a couple of good quarterback on the stretch of winnable games that the coach is declared. Agreed. Yeah, it's a big game. It's a huge game. The Giants, you know, the skins have had some breaks here with the scheduling.

They caught the Cowboys off a Monday night loss to Arizona in a short week situation, and they're catching the Giants coming off a Monday night loss to Tampa. I was actually hoping for the Giants to win last night because I think, you know, there could have been a bit of a letdown after a win. The letdown factor? Yeah, the left town factor. So I was really rooting for them to win last night. I did have, I didn't give the Giants out on the smell test,

but I did take them last night plus 12.5, which was made up for the terrible Dallas finish the other night, which was a bad weekend for officiating all around, especially when it comes to gambling. Because that Dallas lost. Dallas was covering the whole way, and they just seemed like the right side all night until that fumble return for a touchdown.

So I wanted to ask you about the Schaefter stuff from the other day. Did you follow the story that he wrote on Sunday about Ryan Kerrigan? Yeah, where sources say that he has told the Redskins he wants to be traded, but then other sources say he said he doesn't want to be traded, something to that effect. Exactly. So I'll read you the two paragraphs. So Schaefter wrote a story

on Sunday morning about Ryan Carrigan and Ryan Carrigan requesting a trade. But I want to read this to you. You and I both like Adam a lot. We had Adam on the show every week for seven years, five years, whatever it was. I can't remember. And we got to know Adam, and I like Adam a lot. And he wrote a story on Sunday that I just thought was odd. I actually had a conversation this morning with John Kime about it. And I think John was hesitant to sort of weigh in because, obviously, he works at ESPN. So the story was written as follows on Sunday morning. Washington football team defensive end, Ryan Kerrigan has requested a trade.

But Washington has told teams that it won't deal the star pass rusher, a source told ESPN. Second paragraph. Another source insisted to ESPN on Sunday that Kerrigan has not requested a trade. Multiple people around the NFL believe that Kerrigan values loyalty to the franchise and his family over money. I thought that was odd. You have a paragraph that says he's requested a trade per one source. And then in the next paragraph, you cite another source that says he is not requested a trade. By the way, both, it can be completely true, and it probably is true, that he had two different sources on this, or that he had a story and someone else at ESPN had a story.

But I can't recall reading a story that read headline, Ryan Kerrigan has requested a trade, but then in the story, the second paragraph is, Ryan Kerrigan has not requested a trade. Explain this one to me. I can't explain it to you. I mean, it's very bizarre. I mean, it seems like he doesn't have the story. He doesn't have the story nailed down. The story can't be both. That's what I thought.

Yeah. Both things, you could have two different sources, right, that are telling you two different things, but if that's the case, you don't have a story. Right. Yes. Yes. It's very bizarre. I can't explain that.

Okay. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing. something there because I made a big deal out of it, I think, yesterday on the show and then with Kime this morning. And I just thought it was odd. The only thing I could think of is that he had this story, one of the two, and then somebody else at ESPN had the opposite. But then what do you do there? Like, I mean, look, you've been a reporter. If you get a source that tells you it's raining and then another source tells you it's not raining, you don't have a story. Right.

Exactly. You can't go with it. You have to either, you have to get enough sources on, I mean, it depends on who the sources are. But you're right. You don't have a story. So, the second part of this is something that I had a conversation with Cooley about yesterday. Cooley basically, when we were talking about this, said, look, here's how this works because I've been the player and I've had the relationship with player agents. He said, these stories, you know, trade deadline, draft, free agency, whatever, they come from three places. The team, the player, or the player's agent. And he said, I can tell you what happened with this one. Ryan Carrigan probably wouldn't mind getting dealt, but he doesn't want the fan base to think that he wants to get dealt. So his agent put out, he's requested a trade, but then also put out that he has not requested a trade. Somehow, the two messages got out there so that teams knew that Ryan Kerrigan wanted to be dealt,

but at the same time, he's not the fall guy for this. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's, he can, the irony of all this, Tommy, right, is the fan base doesn't give a shit. I told Cooley yesterday, I said, sorry, but you've played for a team and you played for team that has turned people off so much during the course of the last 20 years that the reaction to this story on Sunday was, oh my God, we wish Ryan the best. Definitely trade him to a real team. Trade him to a team where he has a chance to be on a winning team and in a real organization. Like people want him to get traded because they think it would be the best thing for him, you know? So this notion that I think the owner and certainly Bruce had, Kime made this point to me this

morning, by the way. If Bruce were still here, they would have already signed Ryan Carrigan to a contract extension. You know, he wouldn't be going anywhere. But it's like this notion, this delusional notion they have that people want to see Ryan Carrigan retire as a redskin and get some sort of big ring and some sort of, you know, farewell tour in his final year with T-shirts and events and presents brought out to midfield before his final home game. No, they don't, Dan, no they don't. Julie and anybody else out there that believes in this stuff, and I'm not suggesting Julie does.

But I'm just saying the PR department, you know, over the years, maybe not now, always sort of got sucked into this whole nostalgia thing. Nobody wants nostalgia. They want you to win. And Ryan Carrigan isn't going to be a part of your team when and if ever it starts to win big. So trade them. And the fan base wants them traded for the people. but also because they care about him,

and they'd like to see him end up in a normal place. He's the ring of fame guy, right? Oh, definitely. Yeah. Even if he weren't, which he is. I mean, he's the all-time sack leader in franchise history. Of course he is. But, you know, hopefully they'll spell his name right.

And it won't be London Flector or Ryan, you know, Kiergen. Hopefully they'll spell the name right on that day. Speaking of sacks, did you read my... a column, did I send you? No, sorry. I can read it real quickly if you'd like me to. When did you send it to me? I sent it to you last night.

You did? Well, I mean, last night. Okay, so I don't feel that badly. You didn't send it to me yesterday. Oh, oh, I know, the Verland Biggs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't read it. I saw you tweet out a picture of Verlin Biggs.

Here we go. I can't freaking read the story. I've already read too many this month, I guess, three days into the month. I've already read too many. How does that be? I don't know, but it won't let me do it. Oh, my gosh.

You know, you're hopeless. Tell me about Verland Biggs. Tell me what you, tell me about your column. Well, first of all, I thought it would be a good week for a little story during a by week, not a whole lot going on with the team. And Verland Biggs name came surface last week when he was named a finalist to the black college Football Hall of Fame. And he went to Jackson State in the early 60s.

And Verland Biggs, what I was doing research for the Hale Victory book, more than any other player, players had stories and laughed and talked about Verland Biggs than any other player I ever wrote about for Washington football. He was such a colorful character. And so I had all these stories about Verland Biggs. And I, you know, from Kenny Houston, from Roy Jefferson, from Rod McDowell and Diron Talbert. And I also pointed out in there that, you know, people tend to talk about man and Dexter Manley and Charles Mann as. this great defensive end duo, and they were.

McDowell and Biggs? But I would put Ron McDowell and Biggs right up with them. I would put them right up with them. You remember, they didn't count. No, they didn't. It wasn't a stat that was. Sacks back then. But McDowell and Biggs were both like all pros in the AFL when they played there.

McDowell for Buffalo and Biggs for the Jets when he played on Namit's Super Bowl team. And just some of the stories that he would do, like Ron McDowell told me they were playing the Giants once, and Biggs was going up against this pretty good tackle named Willie Joe Young for the Giants. And he asked, before the game, he asked McDowell for a copy of his game program. And McDowell saw him cutting out a picture of the face of this tackle, Willie Young he was going to face. and he already had one from his game program, and he taped the pictures of this guy to the top of his shoes before he went out to play against them.

And McDowell was thinking, this is nuts. The one thing you don't want to do is piss the guy off. Right. Well, you know, McDowell said he thought it was unusual that during the game, usually at one point the defense events, at one point during the game, meet at the quarterback, you know, when they're rushing him at some point. And he had to see Verlin all game. So at halftime, he goes in the locker room and Verlin is sitting there with his head and his hands. And McGull says, Verlin, where are you been? And he says,

this guy's killing me. I can't get in there. And he says, well, it's no one that you taped to your shoes. Yeah. And he just, he was just an offbeat, crazy kind of guy who, like Kenny Houston said he was the light of that team. Did they, I'm looking it up right now. Was he on the 71 team? Was he traded for when George Allen? Because I know he was on the 72. He came in 71 and retired at the end of 74.

Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, there he is. Okay, 71. So they traded to the Jets. I mean, the whole. defense was basically traded for. You know, obviously you had all of the ram skins that came in in 71 with George Allen.

But, you know, those are the first teams I remember. I mean, I remember that that group, the Over the Hill gang is one of the most interesting group of football players I've ever come across. I mean, eclectic, political, both ways. Well, yeah. I mean, think about the influencers like Brigo. Owens and right i mean brig owens had to be the smartest guy in the team right

well you had Ray shanky who ended up being a he ended up being a congressman right walter rock was was uh was it real didn't john wilbur go to stanford yeah john wilber was buddies with hunter thompson yeah they were good friends right used to hang out in hawaii and get high together yeah so so it was a crazy team yeah but really I know the Gibbs teams are the glorious winning teams,

but the over the hill gang is the most interesting group of players ever wear the Bergeny and the goal. Well, I mean, coached by one of the great innovators in the history of the game, George Allen. I mean, he really was. I mean, George Allen was a winner everywhere he went. He was an innovator.

He was certainly, you know, out there in terms of being a personality. But, you know, like I always, whenever I think about George Allen, I think about guys like Marty Schottenheimer. You know, tough guys who were really, really good coaches and won everywhere they went and usually turned it around really quickly, but just never got over the hump in the postseason. You know, he got that team to the Super Bowl in 72. And then you listened to all the players over the years say, yeah, George, you know, pretty much, he didn't let us have any fun. We were way too tight going into that Super Bowl. But, yeah, I mean, what a bunch of characters those teams had.

I'm trying to think it was Biggs and McDowell, Talbert, and Brundage. Bill Brundage. Yeah. It was the defensive line. And then, of course, they used Manny Sistrunk when they went to the five-down linemen against John Brockington and the Green Bay Packers in the 72 playoffs. Brockington was one of the leading rushers in the league. Larry Brown was the MVP that year. in the league, and they completely shut down John Brockington and won that playoff game a week

later beat Dallas and then went to the Super Bowl and lost to Miami, 14-7. Anyway, a couple other things, and then we're done for the day. I just wanted to mention this. So the 49ers are devastated injury-wise. If anybody's following this, Garoppolo's out six weeks could be longer because they may have to have surgery on his ankle. they lost arguably the best tight end in the game in George Kittle for eight weeks, which is pretty much the rest of the regular season.

They have been the most injured team this year. I mean, they're going to play the Packers on Thursday night, rematch of the NFC championship game. And the players that dominated the Packers in the NFC Championship game, Mostred had 212 yards, Nick Bosa, you know, George Kittle, and Garoppolo was the quarterback. None of them are going to play in this game. And yet the Packers are only two.

and a half point favorites, Tommy. Reeks a little bit, but I was thinking about the 49ers. Actually, it's up to five and a half. I just refreshed and it's gone from two and a half to five and a half. So 49ers are a big underdog now Thursday night. They're seasons on the verge of slipping away. They're four and four. Two reasons I'm bringing this up.

One is Washington plays San Francisco in December. And this is why you can't play the schedule game, because you just don't know which team and who you're going to actually be facing by the time you get there. San Francisco could be in the midst of basically tanking out the season at that point. They're in the best division in football. Their chances now of actually going to the postseason. Here's their schedule with basically a shell of their team. Green Bay, the Saints, the Rams, and Buffalo are their next four games?

So they could be four and eight by the time Washington plays them. So that was one reason for bringing it up. The other is this. I think Jimmy Garoppolo stinks. I think the Shanahan's don't think that Garoppolo is the guy either. With that great defense last year, he was good enough. And I think everybody likes Garoppolo. I just don't think he's very good.

So there are two possibilities for the 49ers when they're healthy in 2021. The first is Matt Ryan, because if Atlanta ends up in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes, they're going to take Trevor Lawrence. I would think. As good as Matt Ryan is, and Matt Ryan's a good quarterback. He's a good quarterback. On a team, by the way, that could go and win the rest of their games because they're so capable. Like, they're really, really, you know, a two-and-six team that could easily be six-and-two right now with all the crazy games they've been involved in. But Matt Ryan, reuniting with Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco makes a lot of sense to me. if Atlanta ends up with a bottom feeding pick and decides to totally reshape its roster with a young quarterback.

And then the other possibility is Kirk Cousins. They would have had Kirk Cousins as their quarterback before they ever traded for Jimmy Garoppolo if Dan and Bruce had traded Kirk for a first round pick before the 2017 season. That was what was on the table for Washington to take, a first round pick from the 49ers for Kirk Cousins, and he would have been the quarterback. They've always felt that Kirk would have been perfect for what they wanted to do there, and Garoppolo maybe not as much. Anyway, the point being is that the 49ers, I bet you're going to have options,

and I bet you they move on from Jimmy Garoppolo when this season ends. I think you're right. I think they absolutely will probably do that. It's an opportunity for them since their season is pretty much tanked. and I mean it's no secret that they that you know their love for Kirk cousins only rivaled by your love for Kirk cousins yeah I think they love him more you think so I definitely definitely by way I'm looking at your tweet at coach del Rio yeah there was one follower who pretty much agreed with you that that piggybacked on your tweet and after you tweeted that There are, the tone of, of, of the tweets changed a little bit, just a little bit from, you know, coach, you're right, coach you're right, coach you're right, to basically, you know, shut up and do something. So I just, I just pulled it back up. That tweet, that retweet of his, again, is showing to me this tweet is unavailable.

Maybe he blocked you. No, I've got the rest of his tweets. Oh, I don't know, but I'm looking right at it. Oh, man, if he's so sensitive is to block me. He wouldn't have blocked you. Look, he didn't block me. He ain't going to block you. Voodoo, Jack.

I think he's doing a good job. I think he's doing a really good job. Last thing real quickly, and then we'll move on for the day. So the NFL's proposing, actually, I was going to ask you, do you have any thoughts about Juan Soto being left out of the National League MVP finalist list off that list? I'm really surprised because those are picked by writers who should know better. You see, I think, and people dismiss that, I think throughout the public, Washington and Washington Nationals have to deal with the burden of being a team from Washington, D.C., and there's this image, we all well are aware of it, where a lot of people don't like anything that comes out of Washington, D.C.

And I think that translates to certainly the baseball team sometimes. But these are writers. They should have known better. Juan Soto is one of the top three players in baseball this year, let alone the National League. The three MVP nominees were Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, and Manny Machado. Right. I'm surprised at that. Okay.

And those are picked by baseball writers. the Baseball Writers Association of America, which I'm a member of, picks three writers in each of its chapters, which I think are 24 chapters across the country, to vote for the MVP. Got it. Last thing is the NFL competition committee is going to propose to owners a 16-team playoff format at the end of this year,

if there are lost by weeks and because of it potentially lost games, not lost by weeks. Potentially if they're lost games, they're going to increase the playoff field to 16-8 per conference. Now, that only potentially happens if, A, it's approved, and B, there are lost games. What's happening right now is we've had the by weeks be able to compensate for some of the games that were postponed. specifically the games involving Tennessee early in the year when they had the mini COVID outbreak. The bye weeks start to diminish and by the time we get to I think Thanksgiving weekend, there's nobody left with a bye week. Now Mark Murphy disclosed on some virtual fan event a week and a half ago, I think, the team president of the Green Bay Packers, disclosed that the league

has been told by Tampa that they can play a Super Bowl as late as March 7th in Tampa. So that would extend the season potentially by four weeks. So if you end up with teams that end up having to postpone games, you could have an extra four weeks after the regular season is scheduled to end to play those games. So I'm not, you know, There may be a chance to finish the season beyond the scheduled date. Anyway, the point here for bringing this up is, you know, the last time, there was a 16-team NFL playoff format, don't you? Enlighten me, Kimosthag.

1982-83, the strike-shorten season, the nine-game strike-shorten season. They expanded the postseason to 16 teams, eight per conference. Washington was your 8-1-1-1. seed heading into January. They had to play three games, even though they're the one seed, to get to the Super Bowl. And they beat Detroit in a 1-8 matchup, and then they beat Minnesota, and then they beat the Cowboys, and then eventually the Dolphins and the Super Bowl. But they, in that year, Tommy, in January of 83, when they went to the 16-team playoff format that year in the strike-shorten season, something that would be different this time. Back then,

they just played in the 1 o'clock and the 4 o'clock window on Saturday and Sunday. So you had two games in the early window, two games in the afternoon window, and you couldn't see every playoff game because there were two games going on simultaneously and they were, you know, sent out to the markets that, you know, whatever. You couldn't watch every playoff game. This year, if that were to happen, you would have either four games on Saturday starting at 12 noon, then there would be a 325. game and then a 7 o'clock game and then a 10-15 game. Or you might play a game on Friday night and Monday

night as well and have a double header on Sunday or triple header on Sunday and Saturday and Sunday. But I just, I remembered that year so well. First of all, it's the most painful loss of sports ever was the 1982 loss of the NFL for seven weeks. Oh, that was awful. Just awful. especially when Washington had gotten off to a 2-0 start. And it looked like, hey, this Gibbs guy, he might be something. You know, maybe he's pretty good. And because they beat Philadelphia in the opener, then beat Tampa Bay in Week 2 in the rain, and then the strike came.

But if that were to happen, it would increase the chances even more of, hey, maybe you get to 8 and 8. You're a wild card team. kidding. They're the only path for Washington into the postseason is by winning the division. Yeah, and more teams

in the playoffs means more teams that have a chance to beat you when you play a playoff game. Yeah, right. That's all that means. All right. Anyway, I got one last thing. Yeah, go ahead. You a big Sean Connery fan?

I am. That was sad. Yeah. 90 years old. Pretty good run, though, right? He had a great life. It's just the kind of life we could only dream of. He came up to Wilkeshire Hazleton up in northeastern Pennsylvania in the early mid-70s to film a movie with Richard Harris called the Molly McGuire. It's a movie about these undercover cops that were hard.

to break up the mine workers union when they were trying to unionize up there. And he spent a lot of time up in northeastern Pennsylvania for that movie. That's the only thing I know about Sean Connery that basically other and the other stuff. He was the original bond. Of course. The only bond for me, the other ones. Although Daniel Craig has been pretty good. He's been pretty good.

There have been a bunch of bond movies. on recently for some reason. The first bond, I think I remember is Roger Moore. And then I forget who was on. I'm not a big Bond movie guy. I mean, I remember. Neither am I. Yeah.

But I wasn't what Sean Connery was James Bond. When Goldfinger, I think was the third one that came out and probably the biggest hit. When that came out, that was considered very risque because it had the scene of this woman supposedly body painted in all gold, you know. And I remember back in these days, Kevin, the priest would make visits to your house. Yeah, right. And so I remember the priest coming to our apartment in Brooklyn and sitting down and telling my parents going through a list that were in the Catholic newspaper of movies that I shouldn't

see. And I remember he said the gold finger was wanted him. Oh, wow. The next day my dad took me to see gold. Of course. I was just going to say once the Catholics told you as a Catholic, you can't see this movie. The next day you were going to the movie. That was pretty much the same way. You know, it's funny you mentioned and it just made me think for a second. I'm like, wait a minute, it's not that movie. Did I ever tell you to watch Molly's game? Yes, really good. Wasn't that a good movie? Really good. Oh, yeah. First of all, she is spectacular, Jessica Chastain.

What a family. What a family. The blooms are. The blooms were. An NFL player, an Olympic skier, and then, you know, she's running, you know, one of the biggest underground poker, you know, games in L.A. and then New York. It's a true story. The whole story is a true story. Oh, highly recommended.

Yeah, me too. I don't know why I missed it when it came out, but it was like a year. year ago, I'm just sitting there and this movie's on. And I'm like, I'll go back and start this thing over. And it was great. Really good. Some good people in the movie, like Kastner's in it. He plays her father.

Idriselba's in it. Who else? There's somebody else in it that's a, that plays basically the, the equivalent, the guy, who's the guy that, who's the guy that plays in Spider-Man? Who plays Peter Parker? So Toby McGuire?

So Toby McGuire is, I think, the character played by, what's his face from the movie with Ellen Page? God damn. Michael Sarah. The Michael Sarah character in that movie, I think he's playing Toby McGuire. They don't say it. But, you know, basically, you know, the Michael Sarah role. in that movie, he ends up basically busting her, right? He ends up

basically costing her the L.A. game and then she restarts in New York. We're not going to blow the movie here for you. But I think I read that the Sarah, Michael Sarah character was supposed to be Toby Maguire, who was a big part of those games

that Molly Bloom ran. Okay. Anyway, just thought you might find that interesting. Oh, here it is. Here it is. Michael Sarah was based on Toby McGuire. I had that right.

Okay. That's good nuance, Kevin. Good nuance. You know what? Maybe that's the name of the show today. Either that or something else having to do with the Washington football team. Because when we put Washington football team in the title, it tends to get more downloads than when we don't.

Somebody said... Let's put nuance in the title. Somebody once said, man, you know, every single title is like something about the football team. I'm like, yeah, there's a reason for that, actually. All right, we're done for the day.

Tommy will be back Thursday with me. He'll have his big game pick. He better pick the Giants because 3 and 13, if they went on Sunday, then they're going to have to lose out for him to be right about 3. and 13. All right, we're done for the day. Have a great day. Rest of the day. It could be an interesting day, Tommy, we didn't preach. We didn't do much election preaching today, did we?

I don't think we did. All right. Have a good day, everybody.