The Kevin Sheehan Show - Kyle Allen & Garrett Gilbert...Huh??

Episode Date: March 4, 2022

Kevin opened the show with Ben Standig talking Commanders QB situation, RG3's book being scrapped, and Amari Cooper being available. Then it was Jimmy Patsos with Kevin on Coach K's career, the Maryland job, and the McKinley Assassination.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It doesn't cost you a thing. Also, rate us and review us, if you don't mind, on Apple, specifically on Apple.

Also, Spotify, anywhere else to, where they allow you to rate us and review us. All of your ratings and reviews have really helped out, especially on Apple. Jimmy Patzos is going to be a guest on the show. We're going to talk about Mike Shoshchewski's final game tomorrow night at Cameron Indoor of an incredible 41-year career. Obviously, Jimmy, as an assistant at Maryland, you know, was involved in a lot of games against Duke. But Jimmy's just one of my favorite guests, period. Joining us right now to start the show is my good friend Ben Standig from The Athletic at Ben Standing on Twitter, listen to his podcast, Standing Room Only. This was not the intended opening to the show, but Ben and I were having a conversation, and I said,

hang up, I'll call you back, and we'll just do this as part of the show. And let me get into it by just sort of describing what we were talking about, and then I'll let Ben take it over. So Ryan Fitzpatrick played 16 plays here on a one-year $10 million deal, and that's it. Let me back up a little bit. Alex Smith wasn't supposed to play in the 2020 season, miraculously recovered, ended up, you know, leading Washington to several wins in an actual division title, didn't play in the playoff game as we know because he was too banged up. But when he left here after 2020, he was pretty critical of the way things were handled here, of the current regime and how he was handled and how everything was handled here. So I'm going to let Ben pick it up from there because I think it's an interesting conversation to sort of describe or at least contemplate, if you will, the current environment because they are trying to attract a new quarterback. Tell me, tell everybody what you told me about Rivera just kind of off-the-cuff rifting about his current quarterbacks on the roster.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, if you've heard Rivera give some sort of a stump speech about all the different options, including in-house options for the starting quarterback, although they've sort of made it clear Taylor Heineke is being viewed as a backup. But he did offhandedly mention that there's two also free agents they had. And when he sprays it like that in my head, I'm thinking, okay, Kyle Allen and Ryan Fitzpatrick. But no, he said Kyle Allen and Garrett Gilbert, who honestly I've forgotten was a thing. Right. And so, you know, there's been no sense that Fitzpatrick will be back. We don't even know if Fitzpatrick wants to play anymore after the hip injury, and that's fine.

I mean, nobody's advocating to bring back Fitzpatrick and go that again, but that he didn't even mention him. This is on top of the fact that, you know, during the year, I kind of felt like when Rivera would talk about Fitzpatrick upstate, it felt like from a distance that somebody was telling him where he's at versus he spoke to Fitzpatrick, and Fitzpatrick said, this is how the rehab is going. And then, like, you know, we saw Fitzpatrick at the Bill's playoff game famously with his shirt off,

and I know he has a real history there, but, you know, we really didn't see him at all this year. And it just reminded me that, you know, Alex Smith, you know, both Alex Smith and Fitzpatrick are guys who get a lot of praise from around the league, great teammates, fun, you know, people have a lot of respect for them, you know, as this guy. And Alex Smith, who, you know, was a pretty vanilla quote for the most part. you know, kind of went out guns blazing, or maybe that's a bad phrase to use, but he kind of went out pretty hot, you know, about his time here

and the frustration he hadn't. And, you know, not that he's just necessarily was outing Rivera that I recall, but it was just the whole situation. And now this should Patrick thing, and it just maybe think, boy, this is two veteran guys in a row that they brought in, that don't seem to be leaving

on the best of terms. Again, I'm not saying Fitzpatrick is like, There's like some massive fight, but just something seems off in the way that it's been discussed. And obviously, all these guys talk on some level around the league. So if, in fact, there are veteran quarterbacks who are even considering the deal. Obviously, they're going to, hey, Alex Smith, what was your experience like? Hey, Ryan Fitzpatrick. What was your experience like?

And I don't know. Something just seems off. And then when he, again, when he mentioned Garrett Gilbert, but not Ryan Fitzpatrick, Again, I get it. Nobody's thinking Fitzpatrick's coming back, but nobody thought Garrett Gilbert was coming back either. And that's the one he mentioned. Yeah.

It just seems odd. Look, I want to just say this. This is, you know, could be a total, and we're not making a mountain out of a mole hill. We're just making kind of a hill out of a molehill. Just remember, Alex Smith was very critical. It was that GQ article. They didn't want me here.

They didn't see it. didn't want me to be a part of it. You know, it was a whole new regime. They came in. I was like the leftovers. You know, I was a liability. You know, they didn't want me, yada, yada, yada. By the way, all of that in so many ways was understandable to me in the moment.

It's like no one thought Alex Smith was ever going to play again. So why would they plan for Alex Smith? They had to plan for out of him and went to play to move on without him because there was like zero chance that this was going to happen. It's truly one of the more miraculous comebacks of all time. And then when he did come back, they must have been scared to shit to put him on the field. I mean, especially given, you know, what had happened to him previously. Imagine if it were this organization, which is already viewed as one of the dumbest organizations in sports, had put him

back on the field and he had lost his leg the next time. I mean, so there was a lot of risk. There was a lot of PR risk. And by the way, the first appearance was against Aaron Donald and the Rams. And it was truly horrifying to watch. It was one of the worst halves of football any NFL quarterback has ever played. And Aaron Donald picked him up and threw him down. Now, he survived. And he came back and he played well at times for them. And he was huge. But he didn't leave on great terms with the new regime. This is the new regime we're talking about. We're not talking about, We're not talking about, you know, Gruden or old coach Cal or anybody like that or by the way, you know, KOC, who was here, who's now a head coach. We're talking about the new group.

We're talking about Scott Turner and Ron Rivera and everybody else. And so I don't expect Ryan Fitzpatrick to be back. I didn't expect him to be back this year. You know, there became a point where I think I was pretty sure he wasn't coming back this year and asked Ron about it on one of those shows. And he said, well, yeah, we're saying. still getting updates and we're a ways away. But nobody expects him after that injury, a serious injury, by the way, to come back here. And he may never even play again.

I mean, that sublux of a hip. I mean, his career may be over. But I guess what Ben and I were talking about is just that I like Ron Rivera. I like the coaching staff. I'm fine with that. You know, it's not the best. It's far from the worst. but if Alex Smith's, which we know, relationship was not a very good one and it didn't end on great terms,

what if Ryan Fitzpatrick's relationship, which by the way, they didn't even really have time for a real relationship, what if that one doesn't end smoothly? Well, then your ability to attract the next guy could be impacted. So I hope that they understand that these quarterbacks talk, and I hope whatever they need to do with Ryan Fitzpatrick, they're doing to make sure that, you know, hey, this really sucks. It didn't work out. We'd love to have you back, but we can't take the risk.

But you were a phenomenal guy to have in camp last year, and we were really hopeful that it was going to work out had you been healthy. By the way, I think it may have worked out much better than it ultimately did, but it didn't. That's what we're talking about here. Sorry for going on so long. React. Yeah, yeah.

Well, it's like what you said before about we're not making a mountain out of a molehill. This is not topic one, two, or three when it comes to the quarterback search. That still remains what's the best veteran they can get. Who in the rookie class? Do they like? Do they pair a vet with a rookie and all those types of things? This is a subplot, a deeper subplot, but it is intriguing to an extent because, you know, it potentially says to something about the situation that's going on over here.

And, you know, again, it's just odd to the degree that we've just heard nothing from Ryan Fitzpatrick that he just kind of disappeared in any way. He may be emerge at some point of doing a broadcast or maybe he goes to another team. I don't know. But if so, then perhaps we'll hear more from him about how the season unfolded. But, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, they've got to figure out a new situation. one way or the other for somebody to be here. And yeah, it is just somewhat curious, a little or a lot, I don't know,

but just somewhat curious that these last two guys who came into, you know, pretty good reputation just as guys, forget how they are as quarterback. And certainly Smith didn't leave on the best of terms, and Fitzpatrick's deal seems odd, and Ron Rivera mentions two free agents, and one of them is Garrett Gilbert. And even if just to mention Fitzpatrick, he's, they've never even really mentioned Fitzpatrick is just nothing. Martin Mayhew was asked if he has any idea of what Fitzpatrick's his plans are.

He said he hadn't heard from his, from his camp. That's about as most as we've gotten from them as to the end of the Ryan Fitzpatrick era. So, you know, I don't know. Again, I'm not saying it ended on horrible terms, but you would think at some point somebody would say, hey, you know, it's a huge bummer. Fitzpatrick didn't work out. Super nice guy. He obviously is it was Fitzpatrick.

fun to be around. We would have loved to see what could have happened. It didn't work out. He's going to have to make the best decision for him moving forward, but we're going to move forward as well and try to move in a younger, a different direction. Cool, but nothing like that has been said, which only makes the whole thing odd. Again, when you mentioned Garrett Gilbert, not Brian Fitzpatrick. Yeah, I mean, if you just consider the quarterbacks here recently, Alex Smith, you know, I guess he had maybe a small say in the trade, but he was traded for. He wasn't, you know, signed as a free agent. Now, he did sign the contract extension, and it was a big one, and he didn't have to do that.

But he kind of had to do that for that trade to happen. Ryan Fitzpatrick, you know, a one-year deal. Matt Stafford didn't want to come here. I don't want to get overly negative because I do think that this group is respected more around the league by agents and players than maybe previous groups. But, you know, they are in pursuit of a quarterback, and we talked yesterday on the podcast and about just, you know, the Rivera quotes coupled with kind of what Martin Mayhew had said. And look, where they are right now is they, of course, can draft somebody and that person can't say no.

But every single free agent quarterback out there can say no. And of the big ones on the trade front, two of them have a no trade clause in Wilson and Watson. I don't think Wilson would say no to here, but I don't think Wilson's going to get traded. So we've kind of crossed Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson off the list. Watson, who knows what happens, but now you're into that, you know, Plan B, Plan C area, the Trubiskeys, the Marriottes, et cetera. And you just want to know that if Washington, you know, is aggressive for the guy that they like on their list,

that that guy isn't going to have. any qualms about coming here. I mean, Mitch Trubisky, you know, signed a two and a half million one-year deal to be a backup in Buffalo last year. I've already mentioned it several times, and Ben and I were talking about it before the show. I think we've talked about it on the air, too. It's just, you know, if they really loved Trubisky, they should have just signed him last year. And Ben said, yeah, well, they probably didn't really love him. And I said, that's fair. They probably liked Fitzpatrick Moore. But you made a really good point, which is, well, they should have signed both. They should have signed Fitzpatrick and Trebisky to be his backup at two and a half

million bucks, which is what he signed. It was, you know, there was more money on top of it in the form of bonuses, etc. But it was a two and a half million dollar base salary to be Josh Allen's backup. Now, you said that and I said, yeah, that makes sense. But now that I'm saying it, well, Tribisky wasn't going to come here simultaneously with Fitzpatrick. And Fitzpatrick wouldn't want to come here with also another guy that was not necessarily in his realm. But I think some of that's in play, too. I doubt that they would have gone out and signed both of them and said, hey, the two of you compete for it.

They told Ryan Fitzpatrick he was going to be the starter and gave him $10 million. I don't think you have to tell in that scenario, Trubisky, he's competing for the starter at all. You just say, we're not going to, you know, we're not confident we're drafting somebody, so you can be the younger backup. And look, he went to Buffalo. There's only like eight, what, how many teams in the league would you say? Not only is there no competition, it's not even a prayer, right?

Josh Allen, even before he had a great year. He was the runner up in the MVP vote last year. Trubisky had zero percent chance of ever playing barring injury. Here, Ryan Fitzpatrick, he gets bench for a young quarterback every year. So I think, I don't know why he wouldn't have a citizen said that. I'm saying from Ryan's standpoint, it would be more like, well, why are you going to sign him too if you're signing me? Right, but what if Washington drafts?

What if Matt Jones is sitting there at 19 and they draft him? What would be the difference? The difference is that guy's never been a starter with an 11-3 record and a pro-bowl season in the NFL, and that guy would be certainly picked to be developed behind Fitzpatrick, which he got used to, obviously, when they drafted to us. So I think he's kind of used to that, and he certainly wasn't threatened by Taylor Hine,

or Kyle Allen, but, you know, signing Trubisky to a free agent quarterback deal last year as well, look, the thought on Trubisky last year was far different than the thought in Trubisky this year. I'm talking about league-wide conversation. You know, it's the, you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder thing. This sitting behind Josh Allen on a team that nearly went to the Super Bowl and then having the the GM and the head coach be so complimentary of you, has kind of elevated his status. Now people are like, God, remember that, you know, season he had,

that 2018 season he had, man, was pretty good until he hurt his shoulder. You know, they made it to the playoffs. He was 11-3 as a starter. He was a pro-bowler, and, you know, they do see the upside with the athleticism. He's going to be more coveted this off-season than he was last. Yeah. I mean, you know, look, I mean, I, you know, at the end of the day, they did what they did.

I went back and looked at what I wrote last year before I wrote my offseason plan for this year. And what I wrote last year was they should pick the quarterback who they think is most fixable with the most upside and see if that guy could become Ryan Cannonhill. Because if you signed Fitzpatrick,

regardless of what the hope would be, he would have been a 39-year-old free agent. I don't care if they could have been a second year out of it. The odds of that happening are not great. That's why it, whereas, like, if you if you, not to the odds of turning a Trubisky or someone like that into a multi-year starter is great either, but at least then the ceiling is a greater deal.

You're like building for not this year beyond. But okay, fine, they took the safer route, which, by the way, this year would be a guy like Teddy Bridgewater, who really doesn't have a ton of upside. He's a pretty safe option. He's not bad. Like, you could, he's not the worst quarterback out there, but he just doesn't, he's just not going to propel you up. And again, nobody's saying Tribisky, does.

probably would either, but people in the league see the athletic trades. They think, you know, part of the reason that things didn't work at Chicago was the coaching staff. Some of it was on Trubisky as well, of course, but that there's at least some hope. And the point of all of this is this is where Washington's at. They're not going to get likely Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers or any of those guys. Nobody likely is. And this is not a draft. The people are in love. So you've got to figure out what's our best hope to get a guy who,

maybe turned into something. Maybe is the key word. And who knows if Trubisci is that guy, but there are some reasons to think he might, and that's why he's being mentioned a lot as much as any other reason, or at least he should be. And that's what they've got to figure out. And I kind of wish, like, a Ted framing of all these conversations was slightly different because it does feel like the constant mentioning of we're looking at all these quarterbacks and calling all these teams. It infers that you're trying super hard and the end result is going to probably be a guy that everybody is going to be underwhelmed by because you're

not framing it of just to say, hey, this is a reality. Well, they're not great at framing things. And the, you know, the, the, the, the kind stuff, about 42 quarterbacks on a list and calling every team is just, you know, it's a bit much. And I mentioned that yesterday. It's like they just want you to know how hard they're trying. And I'm glad they're trying hard and I'm giving him credit. I gave him credit last year for being a serious player for Matt Stafford. This wasn't a dip your toes, hey, we'll take them if we can really get them on the cheap. I mean, they offered a first and a third, but I want to go back to something that you said because I think it's a great way of putting it in terms of the position they're in with respect

to the veteran that they're going to sign. And that is trying to find the guy that's going to become the next Ryan Tannahill. Now, you may not be excited out there about Ryan Tannahill, but Ryan Tannahill's had some good seasons. You know, he probably can't take you, you know, to the promised land, but you can win 12 games a year with a good team around him and get to the postseason. To me, that's the way they should be thinking this year. Now, I'm not saying that you didn't say that they should be thinking that way this year as well, but you said you thought that should have been their plan last year. Well, the reason it wasn't their plan last year and they weren't looking for a longer term upside is because they were coming off a division title and they thought

they had a defense that was going to be really, really good and that they could win the division again last year and maybe advance a little bit in 2021. And I think that's why they went with Fitzpatrick instead of a guy that may have been more of a role of the dice in the show. short-term, even though maybe he had a longer-term upside. I mean, based on age, of course, he had a longer-term upside. But I think that's the strategy right now. Right now, they should be looking for a veteran that could become Ryan Tannahill and then a rookie who could become Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. That should be the strategy. Yeah, right. And I think, again, like, this is the problem, so not the problem, but like this is where we are also in sports these days. You know,

when you and I were younger men, obviously everybody always wanted to win, but there was at least a little more of a notion of a rebuild was acceptable, that when you had a young team or a team that was trying to figure something out, that things could go in a certain direction. And obviously, we can't blame Rivera for things that happened before him in terms of, you know, that they have made the winning record since, you know, the 20, what, the 2015 season with cousins.

You know, we can't blame Rivera for some of that. But, okay, they've had these two. years. They haven't had a quarterback. It can't even completely blame him for that because he inherited Haskins and then all these things. But what are we, you know, everybody's going to want them to win this year. And that's why he told us at the end of the season press conference, are you going to be patient with me if we go with the rookie? Here's the reality. Forget this is not a Ben Standic view. This is the real view from the fan base. No. Nobody is going to be patient anymore because unfortunately, to a degree, this is where we are in everybody wants to win yesterday.

And, you know, especially for a team who, by the way, does have some talent, who tease everybody in 2020 with that run to the end of the year to win the bad NFC East Division. So I just don't think that people are doing that. But I also think this is the problem. If you don't give sort of an honest assessment as best you can, then I don't know what to do. Like I thought, I don't know if you heard Chris Ballard talk about the Carson-Wend deal. that was, I thought, really good.

Now, maybe he doesn't, maybe that hurts him at some point with Carson Wend. I think it hurts, I think it hurts his potential trade value. I would never, I would never advocate that you're, you know, especially a guy you're ready to move on from, that you're that frank about the quarterback. I mean, that came off as very critical of Carson Wence. But everybody knows it. That's what I think. It's not, he didn't say something that was stunning.

I mean, they lost the last two games of the year. They lost the last game of the year when you win and get in to the team that's finished with the worst record in the league, not solely, but in large part because the quarterback was terrible. And the quarterback had some other issues, and clear the owner is not a fan of that quarterback. These things are, like, pretty obvious. And Chris Bauer could dance around and pretend the other NFL teams are not dummies.

They know what the reality is. They're all talking behind the teams anyway. I'm talking about being realistic to the. the fan base because that's what we're talking about on some level, right? Ron Rivera could just tell himself, tell the team, here's the deal. We're going to go get Trubisky, hypothetically. We're going to draft the quarterback at 11. That's the plan.

We don't care what anybody else thinks. We're going to see this thing through. Great. If you can do that, like, you know, that's great. But often, that's not what happened. At some point, the pressure from the media, from the fan base, whatever, to play a kid who who maybe isn't ready, starts to become overwhelming. You give up.

You give up a plan, you go this direction, and now all of a sudden, you know, you're in a different lane that you didn't even intend to be in. It's okay. Just tell the world, here's the deal. Yeah, but you can't. We're going to try our best, but. Yeah. I know, you're right. Look, I think they're trying their best.

They talk too much, by the way, but they're trying their best. And I think basically what I said before is where they are. They've got to try. I think your Tanna Hill thing is perfect. It's like they've got to find the guy that can develop, the veteran that could, develop into Tannahill, and they've got to try to draft a rookie with the highest ceiling, a guy that could become, you know, Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, if it's Malik. Whatever.

But back to Ballard for a second. The reason that strategy, to me, is wrong is you can't give any indication that you're done with somebody when you want to trade them. It's one thing to say, you know, we got a ways to go, and it was a tough ending, and Carson's just as upset as we are. But man, we still like him. I mean, he had a fanat. He had some incredible moments. No, the Ballard rant on Wentz sounded like they were done with him.

I don't think that's the best position to present on a guy that you want to deal. By the way, I don't even know if there will be that much of a market for Carson Wentz. This is going to be the second straight team that's essentially said, we can't stand this dude. Like personally, it comes. off as. All right. Go ahead.

But just quickly on, just one last quickly on that. Let's say he says nothing publicly about Carson Wentz. He just says, we're having, you know, we're coming up with a plan. I'm not going to comment. The second he calls another team and says, hey, we're putting Carson Wentz, the same thing is occurring. The other team now knows you're looking to trade him. All we're talking about is public perception, not reality of what's going on behind the

thing. Yeah, but he made it sound personal. and that was the issue in Philadelphia as well. You can't pitch this guy and get the most compensation back for him if there's this sense that you're getting a bad guy. And I think Ballard really lent sort of this narrative, lent truth to this narrative that Carson Wentz is a difficult guy. No, he's not saying, well, I mean, there is all the stuff.

They gave up a first round pick for Carson Went. if you even hint that you're looking to trade, that you're willing to trade him after one year? No, that's true. That's true. That's true. That's fair. That's fair. But, you know, yes, that's totally fair.

I mean, at this point, I guess there's nothing you could say publicly, you know, even if you call them an asshole publicly, if just, you know, just saying that he's available for trade after you traded a first and a third a year ago for him basically means, you know, by its definition of, oh my God, it must have sucked being with him. By the way, the flip side of this would be if Ron Rivera came out and said one of our defensive linemen were open to trading them, that would be the opposite. That would be more of what I think you're trying to say because nobody is expecting

that to be the case. Washington should be obviously pretty happy with all their guys. Yeah, you know, you want to come to us with a crazy offer. But like if you advocate and say we're open to moving any of the case, them or someone specific. Now you are effectively making it clear you want to move them and that now is going to lower. Yeah, the only difference there, the only difference there is that if it's for an elite quarterback, it's like, we don't want to do this, but we need the quarterback more. You know, you could love John. I'm just think independently of that. Yeah, of course, of course. All right,

real quickly before you run and we get to Jimmy. So Griffin, that would be Robert Griffin, the third. Ben did an interview with Robert Griffin III. You can see it, read it on The Athletic. He is scrapping the tell-all book that he promised would be, you know, just incredibly titillating to all of us that would read it when it would come out sometime over the summer. Why do you think he scrapped this book? I think the story we have should be updated. Hopefully by the time people see this, we have a statement from him through his,

agent and in addition to me talking to him and basically sounds like his view is like he he didn't want to distract from the conversation that's being had by the various women that was obviously discussed talking about their experiences of being harassed there and that you know perhaps there's a story to tell for him at another time but he just ultimately felt this wasn't the right time i mean i suspect there's a bit more to that and that's up for him to discuss publicly if you want, but, you know, obviously that not only would have an RG3 tell-all, even if it was just about Mike Shanahan and Dan Snyder

and whatever, Kirk Cousins or whatever else, obviously all of us would be interested in that on some level. But, you know, maybe that happens at some other time, but for now he's saying, you know, he just doesn't want to get into it. Yeah, I just think that there's so much going on here where it's just not in his best interest to have a controversial book out right before football season. He really made progress as a broadcaster. The amount of money that is out there for elite broadcasters,

as we're, you know, the Troy Aitman deal to ESPN. I mean, guys are going to make more money as broadcasters than they ever made in their career. So ultimately, it's probably not in his best interest for this book to come out. Last thing before we run, because this news is just breaking. Amari Cooper expected to be released by the Cowboys. Do you think Washington will be interested? Well, look, I mean, we know they offered him a slightly bigger deal than what Dallas gave him originally, and that was a five-year, $100 million deal.

I was told it may have been somewhere between like the $105 to $115 million range, and, you know, whatever. He wanted to go play for Dallas. I know there's no state taxes, so maybe you have to balance. that out, but they obviously made a pretty significant offer to him, thus shown some interest. Now, two years have passed, you know, I don't know that they are

as hot on him as they were. Obviously, for Dallas to do this, they're saving quite a bit of money on the cap, but also means that really, you know, the strength of Dallas after were those three receivers, Michael Gallup's a free agent and dealing with an ACL, so it's not like they have an obvious

fix across from CD Lamb. So it's a pretty big move for Dallas, and it may say something about where they think Cooper is who's good. I mean, he obviously is pretty good, but, you know, I don't think, right, I don't put him in the category of the elite receivers. But Washington, look, the outside receiver opposite Terry McCorn has been a non-factor more or less since McCorn arrived.

They have to figure out something. Ron Rivera and Mayhew were talking up guys like Cam Sims and Bianby Brown during the combine, and, you know, that's fine, whatever you have these guys, maybe get better use of them, but, you know, going to an Amari Cooper would be a much bigger deal. I don't know what you think. My big thing is always, I'm not paying two receivers huge money, and they're going to probably have to extend Terry McCorn here. So do I, like, giving Amari Cooper the kind of a deal that I probably have to do to keep him and pay McCorn, and you have still have Curtis Samuel getting good money? I don't know that's what I would do,

but that's not a good day may feel differently. Yeah, I mean, Dallas is, for those of you wondering why. They're way under the cap, or over the cap, excuse me, they're way over the cap. And they've got guys out there. I mean, Van der Esh, I know, Randy Gregory, I know. I'm forgetting one or two other players that are guys that are unrestricted free agents here shortly if they don't get him signed. And they probably look at, they've got some depth there. But I think Amari Cooper is one of the best route runners in the NFL. But anyway, thanks for doing this. We've done it this way before where we're just kind of having a phone conversation. And then I'm like, all right, I'm going to scrap what I'm doing and we're just going to do this.

So it worked out well. Thank you. Appreciate it. Well, let me just tell you really quick. Like when I was at the Combine, I had multiple people randomly stopped me. They recognized me. I don't know how that works, but they did. And almost every time, they always tell me that dot, dot, dot, they found me through the Kevin Sheehan podcast.

So I appreciate the listeners as well as the fact that you keep putting me on the air despite, you know, my negative Garrett Gilber comments. You do know that the D.C. Podcast Association voted us

the number one podcast in the month of February. You do know that, right? I think you do. You might be upward in March.

Who knows? Oh, I was going to say, when is that award for me? I'm not to keep my eye on. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

Yep. Jimmy Patsos right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast is sponsored by My Booky. This Saturday night, bad blood comes to a boil as Jorge Mazvedal takes on Colby Covington in the main event at UFC 272. And MyBooky is upping the stakes. Double your money on your initial deposit and back Masvedol or Covington to win via Keo to take advantage of a MyBooky boosted odds payout. It's easy. It only takes a moment to sign up at MyBooky. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and you'll instantly double your first deposit. With that extra scratch in your account, place a bet on any fight on the card, including what will absolutely be an action-packed main event.

Don't miss out. Secure your MyBooky double deposit bonus today by using my promo code, Kevin D.C. And gear up for UFC 272, bet anything, anytime, anywhere with My Bookie. Jumping on the podcast right now is my friend Jimmy Patzos, always one of my favorite conversations on radio on the podcast, one of my favorite. favorite people to co-host anything with, which we've done a few times over the years. Lots to get to, including the available Maryland job and Rick Petino turning it down yesterday via Twitter. We'll get to that. But I want to start with Coach Kay's final game tomorrow night at Cameron & Door. The tickets are obscene. I mean, you're going to need several thousand

dollars if you have any interest in going. And for a good seat, the good seats are going for 50K plus on Coach Kay's final night. But I wanted to get your thoughts, someone who coached against him for so many years in so many epic battles as Gary's top assistant at Maryland. What are you thinking about? And how are you describing your thoughts about Mike Shoshchevsky's career? Oh, hey, look, I'm a huge coached case. Man, look, when we were young coaches, there's people we watched, you know, he had taken the Duke program and don't forget, that was based on. on D.C. kids. I remember I'm

older, Kevin, so I remember when Mack in high school was open. Yeah. I coached it Carol. I coached it Carol. You know, remember, I went to Catholic University, so you're running around D.C. And sorry about the sign of the whale fire, by the way, because that was one of our stomping grounds in Hemp Street.

Well, third edition. Yeah. I was going to, well, you started in Midtown and you made you in Georgetown, but there was no metro, but this was a basketball mecca town. and the person that saved Coach Kay's job

and turned Duke around was Johnny Dawkins. Well, there were also a lot of the players on that team, and Gary Williams will tell you about all the players that secondary players that went to places like BC, but Johnny Dawkins was the guy. Then, of course, Ferry was in high school, and he goes there. So there was an affinity for Duke, even if you didn't like them, because so many guys.

And Tommy Amicus from Northern Virginia, you know, knock you'll tell you from D.C., but him and they're from Northern Virginia. That's okay. I'm just kidding, but that's Red Jenkins and this. My point is this, Kevin, seriously, you had such important players

in Dawkins, Amaker, and Sterry playing at Duke that you couldn't help but watch them. We didn't really know anybody in Carolina. You know, they were more national, et cetera. So you became a Duke fan that way. Then, of course, when you became a Maryland fan, you didn't like him, I got that. And then when I started coaching at Maryland,

because I love for Boston. And this guy has him slapping the floor and playing man to man, and they're flying up and down the court. And they're taking jumpers, and they're shooting threes, and then comes early, and then comes late in there, and then you hate them. Then they beat you and L.D. I mean, he changed college basketball to money

almost more than anybody for a long time. And you've got to give credit for that, you know? you know, the Hurley-Latner thing was a TV ratings bonanza and then we go to Maryland and what people talked about at the 20th anniversary last week that Duke Maryland was the bigger

game than Duke Carolina. So you've got to respect them. Of course you didn't like him when you coached against him because that's how it was back then. Then he gets Wojo from Baltimore who no one thought was any good and turns him into an epic, you know, an epic, you know, figure, let alone player, Chris Collins

his kid, we do Doug Con. So he knew how to market basketball. But that makes sense? He knew how to make the game. It's the old Howard Stern. Half the people listen to him because they don't like him and half the people listen to him because they like him. Yeah.

Well, he did that, and you've got to give him credit. As far as basketball wise, I have great respect for him. He's always nicely seen as me. I like him. And then he takes the Olympic thing and fixes that mess. Right. And turns it back into a legitimate thing and the players have to be treated better,

and that slows down to USA basketball, which they do a great job. I've been out in Colorado Springs. So he's done so many things, but don't ever forget. He knew how to entertain. And that's, in our life, Kevin, I think entertain is an important part of the game. That's funny the way you describe that.

By the way, we started Uptown at, like, Windsor McKays and Charlie's place, and then we would work our way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was Gary like Winzer McKays, too, by the way. Windsor McKays was awesome. And, you know, that was... Dancing crowd. Dancing craft. Well, yeah, the malt shop.

But that was really, you know, for an older crowd, you know, when I'm in college in the 80s. And, you know, it was Windsor McKays. It was Charlie's place. And then it was working our way down from there. Unless, of course, you know, you and I were both working at the famed third edition of Georgetown. You know, the way you put that, though, was interesting. because I don't think most people would consider Mike Shoshchevsky to be an entertainer. But he became and was a polarizing figure for sure.

There are a couple of things I want to talk about as it relates to him because I think one of the things that as a Maryland person, I think we missed out on, is the probation years and coming off the probation years were really, in my opinion, his best teams. the Leitner Hurley Hill, Thomas Hill, et cetera, teams. You know, that back-to-back national championship, you know, 90 losing, 91-92 winning was, I think, his best stretch of teams. And unfortunately, Maryland's on probation.

They don't have a great team. So we missed out on having some juicy games against those guys, although there was that one game down at Cameron Indoor where Kevin McClinton played great. and we almost pulled off the upset. But do you ever think about, like, those were the – I think those were his best teams, do you? I mean, just because of the record itself, and, of course, like I said before that, when you win like that and when you have Leightner and Hurley like that, that's just – look, I got into the ACC my first two years Duke and Carolina won it.

I said, what did I get myself into here? You know, I just was going to be a Carol high school, own a bar, and have a nice life. Well, now you're trying to chase this guy and Coach Kay and Duke that, like I said, Carolina was fantastic. They had Michael Jordan and all those people before me, but they just ran their system and they kind of got their guys. What they were doing at Duke was they were flying up and down the court. They were playing.

Cameron Indoor was unbelievable on game day. And yes, I think those were. Look, it took us 10 years to catch them. I think Steve Francis's year was when we could legitimately. We say, okay. Now, we slip in the sweet 16. Still a good year. The next year we lose by, you know, 100 to UCLA, literally.

We lose by 50. I still don't talk to Steve Wavin about going up the tunnel. And Gary Williams turning around. They have a long tunnel in the Metro Dome. And Gary Williams turning around and saying, we're coming back here next year. This is for the final fourth. And Steve Wavin and UCLA team in our Watson that had just won by 30 points.

They were scared. They were scared of the tunnel listening. And they're like, oh my god i wouldn't bet against that guy next year hope we don't play them next year it was like interesting so we so our three-year run was final four final four and remember that was a great sweet 16 team with drew won and wilcox had gone but his run was unelv who was dark fader you know that it's funny he was good versus evil then by later he turned into evil to disrupt mal in ban you know sure but he was good versus evil beating the unelv teams and then he wins it all i believe in

Minnesota and then they went again. So, yeah, they were. And actually people thought he was going to go to the Lakers. I remember those talks. And I remember, you know, his recruiting. You just, if they were in the gym, you just left, you know. Carolina kind of selected who they want. Duke still recruited.

And lastly, I am good friends of Mike Bray. He was one of the really, really good friends of Jack Cluant. Mike Bray was on that staff. So if you saw Mike Bray, like, hanging around, you were out of there. and Mike Ray, you know, then goes to Delaware and gets the geese and turns it. But he was there a long time. And so you just, they weren't, they were evil. It's funny, I remember Kevin McClinton almost let us go in.

Juice McClend, great guy whose father played for the Redskins. Yeah. We were on probation. I got there in 92 while senior year. And I think it really almost killed Gary Williams that those, that probation sanctions. And look, everyone's had issues with the NCAA. And I can tell you that you should get in there in the wrong day with the wrong people, and they forget about what happened around the whole country,

and they throw this thing at Gary Williams, who had run a completely clean program at BC, cleaned up the gambling mess, gone to Ohio State, ran a cleaning program, and then the Big Ten wasn't always that clean. We won't point fingers, but let's just go there, and come here and get swamped with this thing, and it wasn't. You couldn't even be on TV and couldn't get players, and all of a sudden he couldn't play Duke

and he had a terrible record for like 10 years. I think he went like 1 in 19 in 10 years or something crazy like that, Kevin. And I know that drove him crazy. He could beat Carolina sometimes at home. Yeah, they did. Everyone else you got up to, you know, the Johnny Rhodes team. We just couldn't quite catch them

because they had such ascended to such height, had good recruiting, and he knew how to break our press. What he did was we pressed, and he broke our press and shot. three's against it. Now you tell me about that back in the 90s. Guys take a three now when you cross south court. This is not now. Back then, to break the press, have a one-on-three, but Trayson Langdon or whoever in the corner, and fire threes. And have wait, and have your big man fire three. So, like, you've got to

give this guy credit. He was way ahead of his time. Like basketball, I know I talked about the entertainment and how they drew TV ratings and all that. But he was breaking out press and firing and three, like Steph Curry was, nobody did that back then. Like, so he was, he was really, really, really a good basketball coach, too. But he just, he got good players, he can promote his program, and he can coach up. He's, it's going to be, I'm not angry at all for watching the final game or anything. And I have nothing more respectful, but like, they were revolutionary and how they played against Maryland, and we couldn't beat him for 10 years.

That's really interesting stuff. Like, you know, so many coaches will say, look, Our press break doesn't mean we have to score on the other end. We're not going to take, we don't have to score if it means taking a bad shot and then others have that aggressive mindset. And not only did he have an aggressive mindset, he had an aggressive mindset in a day where you wouldn't pull up against, you know, a press break beating it and shoot a three.

And I also remember, and you mentioned this, look, somebody's going to say, no, you're wrong. It was Bobby Knight in the 70s. and 80s. But then again, he was a disciple of Bobby Knight. But in the ACC, the ACC was not known. This is my recollection of it in the 70s and 80s. And by the way, there's this documentary that's running right now. And I had a guest on the other day, one of the executive producers, the ACC tournament documentary on the ACC network that is just unbelievable. You will love it if you haven't seen it. Oh, what's on is Barry Jacobs doing it? I love Barry Jacobs. It's not Barry Jacobs. It's John

Dahl and John Hawk, who are the executive producers of it. It's so well done. Anyway, we can talk about that at another time. But the ACC was very much, in college basketball very much, was a free-flowing open game. And I remember Duke

and they're in your face half-court defense. And how tough, by the way, was to run like the flex against it, you know, initially. Like, they're pressuring the guards and it's like it's hard. And it was hard to to score, and that really was a Bobby Knight thing, right?

Oh, yeah, that's what I'm saying. He could mix and match what he needed, and he would adjust. But yet, oh, that overplay the flex and you had to drive it. Had to drive it. He didn't have guys good enough at the time to drive it. That's how him could drive it. That's why that works so well. It was like a power guard, but oh, yeah.

And then by the end, he was really playing a soft defense and not running his many sets. He was kind of free-flowing. I think he picked up a lot of stuff from the NBA. and changed his ways. By the way, do you know he won his first regular season title in 10 years last night? I talked about it on the radio show. It's amazing to me.

Crazy. It's amazing. No, it's not 10 years. It's, it's insane. He won his first regular season outright title, first one since 2006. It's 16 years. How about that? How about that?

He shared one. He shared one. Maryland in 2010. Yeah, with Grievous and admission here now, we didn't cut down the necks and have a youth celebration. Oh, a little bit of a shot there. But anyways, well, you know, I told Bruce Sproback the other day. I said, hey, you know, you might still tie.

No, no, no, that's a TVM. Hey, look, regular season titles are great. That is the tournament. But it's the world we live in. It's all about the NCAA. But this guy, I couldn't believe it. Now, Virginia was also the nuisance there for five years, right? Kevin says as Virginia winning up.

And by the way, Notre Dame had some good teams there with Mike Bray. Look, I mean, we've been out of the ACC for a while, so I can't list all of the regular season champions. But the fact that he has not won an outright regular season ACC title since 2006 was shocking to me. Now, he has won. Shocking, shocking. He has won five ACC tournaments in two now. national championships during that time.

So there is that. He was always good at the tournier. You know, it was the most satisfying thing. Like, besides the NCAA winning the title, let's not get silly here, but, like, it was so satisfying my last year at Maryland. We won the ACC title, and we beat Duke. We didn't have to, like, slip by and not face Duke.

Like, Mike Jones was playing good, and guys had filed out, and Mike Grinnon made free throws, who I just saw Mike Grinton's a great guy. but to beat Duke to win that title because they were just, he performed so well in that tournament. I had got a little sneaky info on him that what he does in the NCAA is, it's a two-game tournament, gentlemen.

Most people go one game in a time. He goes in, it's a two-game tournament this weekend. Then next weekend it's a two-game tournament. We're going to talk about all three teams. We're going to talk about, of course, the first team we play, but we're going to talk about the other two. and then the final four is a two-game tournament. Well, somehow or other, he got that to be a three.

He didn't really do one game. They had like a plan. Like, we got to play this way to win this game. I won't tell you one of his assistants. I took out for a few libations. You know, I got him in the old fireball. Got him in the fireball headlock and said, tell me how he doesn't.

Tell me how he does that. Well, the fireball headlock is a more recent meeting. You're not talking about when you were coaching. No, no, this is a more recent one. But his tournament approach was like, it was this one game. You know, we all do the BS one game in a time. No, I heard it was more like this is the weekend, and this is how it's going to go. And like they play slow, so we got to play fat.

We got to speed them up. We might have to play really good defense on this day. And then on Sunday we're going to be rescued and we're going to come out of firing and all our fans are going to buy up the tickets with this team. I heard it was a very, very, very interesting tactical, like, army type. weekend approach of like, winning the battles to win the war. And it's funny, you look there and you go, man, I never thought of it that way.

Like, we take two-game road trips to play Manhattan and I don't know. Or you go a two-game road trip to play Florida State and Georgia Tech, whatever. We always just get through the first game. Let's get it. It's really interesting to hear that he did that. So once again, he's giving us

new ways to look at things. He's teaching us and he's winning while doing it, not being afraid to try different things and still winning. And while Bobby Knight was one of the greatest coaches ever, I don't think he was a real, like, innovator. They just, you know, man-to-man motion. I mean, man-to-man defense run the motion.

So, like, Schiazsche deserves a lot of credit. And I think some of that also was driven by, I'm not going to be like them seven miles away, which is Carolina. Like, I think that drove him a little to be like, the first thing we're going to do is be different from them. And then we're going to do what we think is best for us. and then we're going to figure it out our way. And we're going to let the big 6-11 guys shoot three.

And I'm going to have a tough little white point guard in Hurley and Lojo that don't look on paper like they can win, but they're great. Like he just had a different, you know, Baltimore or New York kid. It's just really interesting how he looked at the thing, made the jigsaw puzzle fit. But credit is deserved because he also won two national titles, as you said, and five ACC tournaments while not winning the regular season because you know what?

The regular season doesn't really matter in today's society. So maybe he was tinkering to get better to win the whole thing. I don't know him. I would love to go to lunch with him, that's for sure. Well, I just pulled up the list, by the way, of the regular season champions since they won it outright in 2006. And it's mostly Carolina and Virginia with Leonard Hamilton and, by the way, a 2013 Miami team with Laredenaena. in there, right? That was a Laranega team in 2013, I think. I think it was. It wasn't, what's his face?

Yeah, no, no. Yeah. But, uh, and then he's... By the way, by the way, give kudos to our friend Jim Laroni and Chris Caputo. They're battling. Yeah, they're. He's a damn good coach. He's a damn good coach. They'll be in the NCAA this year. I know. I know. I know. That's at Miami. That's really good.

So, you know, you mentioned, you know, he wasn't the bad guy. And then he became very much the bad guy. Or maybe best case, very polarizing, obviously, if you were Duke fan. And Duke became a national brand. So it's probably better to describe Coach K for most of his career as kind of a polarizing figure in the sport. But I would say to you that he wasn't the bad guy when he was, you know, for a big portion of those early years because Dean Smith was the bad guy. You know, and Carolina was the behemoth. And, you know, being a lifelong ACC and Maryland fan, you know, it was always Dean.

I mean, you know, a lot of people don't know this. For a long time, Maryland fans, like for me as a child of the 70s and remembering the 74 ACC tournament final, I didn't give Duke a second thought until really Gary came around. Carolina was always the big game and the rival. And so I want to ask you this question because I think it's an interesting debate. Who's the greatest coach in ACC history, Dean or Kay? Well, it's funny because it's almost like, look, it's like the baseball Hall of Fame. I think there should be a wing that says the steroid era.

I just do, you know, I just do. It just happened and it happened. Well, there should be almost a K era and there should be a Dean Smith era, you know, and then there should be those who came after, which is like Gary Williams right now and Tony Bennett, who I think are in that next group. In other words, there's like different years you can't compare.

You know, like I love Magic Johnson and Bird. And I always tell people when you see Magic, he's six, nine, and played the point. Right. None of these little guys today, hey, they're allowed to hold you. So none of these guys today could play against him because he's too big and strong and you can't get by him.

Well, the game's changed. So I would say, Dean, you know, gets the credit because he did it first, and he put the ACC on the map. And he had Michael Jordan, and let's face it, the Jordan Ewing thing was at one of those games that, you know, I always look at like, I'm from Boston, but we followed you guys because up there, the Big East hadn't started in the 70s, okay? It started in the 80s, thanks to Dave Gavin. Then all of a sudden, we became the Villanova Georgetown fights and Gary at BC with Dominic Presley and all those guys running around Preston. And then comes Calhoun. So there's like, that's our emergence.

But in the 70s, we got one or two games a week, and it was the ACC. I remember Raycom coming on. And it was David Thompson, you know, sneakers in the air, and they beat Bill Walton. I'm at like seven or eight then. Yeah, that was C.D. Chesley, C.D. Chesley's sail with the pilot times. That was before Raycom. But anyway, go ahead. No, but it's just as a kid from up north to see those teams.

We didn't really, you know, the Mungsy Bowks thing came later with Wake and all that kind of different people playing. But, you know, Valvano obviously had his little run because of, you know, who he was and his just energy and not just the final four win. He was just a slick guy that brought some different, you know. You wrote, they wrote about him in the Boston Sunday Globe. Like Tobacco Road gets this guy Valvano.

They never wrote about Virginia. They never wrote about Wig. And until Bobby Krimands came, I didn't even know Georgia Tech had a basketball team, when Mark Price and those guys came, K became Dean because he did it almost every year that's just crazy to think about

when the league was that good so I would say might answer your question I'd still give Dean the nod because he went to so many final fours before winning it and then K it's just they're both down Mount Rushmore

and that's why I think things like that exist you know who's the best four with John Wooden and then who's the next one I don't know I don't know if I put Bobby Night up there yet or not but like but kay is up there with with dean smith and with john wooden from what i know of coaching because of his ability to adapt and not like dean smith we knew up in boston that those two schools didn't like each other remember i'm 55 so i'm i'm really really into this thing in the 80s

and k doesn't get there until then you know start start turning the you know Duke was nowhere It was NC State because of North. I knew that Norm's flown wore a checker jacket, okay? That's kind of weird, you know? Like, that's kind of weird. And by the way, Lector-Dazel was on that list of, like, you guys had cool players, you had John Lucas, you had Bucky and Annan. I mean, I remember my mother was crazy.

She would talk about Ken Dryden being the goalie for Cornell and Montreal, Canadians, and being a great, great student. And Jim Longboard playing for the Red Sox and being a dentist. Well, she talked about Tom McMillan being a road scholar. And Len Elmore went to Harvard Law School. My mother was this, you know, the Boston Sunday Globe, for those you that don't know, was probably the greatest sports paper in the world. All these people were writing from now, Gammon's and it.

But Sunday Globe, even my mother, a woman back then, which is different, read the sports page. You know, Leslie Vistler was around, and Bud Collins, she liked tennis. But, like, we were told, like, Jim Longmore's baseball and dentist. Ken Ryan's a goalie and a doctor. Len Elmore, wow, look at those Maryland guys. Len Elmore is going to Harvard Law School and Tom McMillan's a Rhodes Scholar. Like, that's interesting for a kid from Boston to hear, Kevin, out of nowhere in the 70s, you know?

You are, I can't believe that you don't know about this ACC tournament documentary that's airing on the ACC Network. Like, I'm not going to ask you to watch it. I'm going to demand that you watch it because you are. I'm definitely going to watch you. I'm definitely going to watch it. You're such a, you know, a history. buff to begin with having nothing to do with sports. And I'm just going to tell you that the fourth episode, it's a 10 episode series,

they're each about an hour long, and they've been running for about a month now, and they lead up to the actual ACC tournament next week. But in talking to the executive producer, because you just kind of waded into an era that I think was the best episode. Now, it was heavy on Maryland, so that was interesting to me. but he said that if you look at all of our episodes, they all span like a multi-year period, like three to seven years or whatever.

And yet our fourth episode was essentially two seasons, the 1973 and 1974 seasons. These were the seasons where Maryland and NC State had a rivalry, which they did in the 70s overall, that eclipsed Duke in North Carolina. The games that they played against each other are epic. I mean, I think the greatest player of my lifetime watching college basketball was David Thompson. And he just was a total difference maker and a total game changer.

But the 74 ACC tournament final, they did 30 minutes on alone. And they've got Lucas and they've got Howard and they've got Lefty and they've got Tom McMillan and they've got Len Elmore and they've got Burleson and Monti Tau all. You know, Mo Howard breaks down crying talking about this game. It's really so good. You will love it. And that's because you had to win the tournament to go to the United States. You had to get a lot. There was no secondary thing.

That's it. Yeah, I mean, the 74 Maryland team was very debatably the second best team in America. NC State beat UCLA to end their seven-year stretch of winning titles in the semifinals. By the way, in the Greensboro Coliseum. And then they beat Al McGuire's Marquette team in the fourth. final. But Maryland and UCLA had opened the season against each other at Pauley, and Maryland lost by a point. And then Marilyn lost, you know, the ACC final in overtime, 103 to 100, you know, for many, many, many years considered to be the greatest college basketball game

in history. You know, I think Duke, Kentucky and 92's up there. Hell, I think the Gonzaga UCLA semifinal last year is one of the great games of all time. But we don't need to get into that conversation. Back to... No, I mean, he's sons since that shot. I know son. Yeah. And Fews done a great job of staying where he is. He just has to win it. He has to get over that hump and win it.

But I also wanted to jump into this real quick, Kevin. See, the ACC, a lot of these comments talk about how many teams they get in. And I knew this early. This is a little inside trade secret, a little trade craft here. The ACC didn't care how many teams got in. They wanted the team to win it. And it started with, we don't care. David Thompson and them won it when you win it.

And so did Valvano. When you win it, when Carolina finally wins, when Duke was the king because they won it, then we win it and go to the final four twice or two out of it. Like going to the final four and winning it is what mattered to the ACC brass and the fence. Forget this, how many teams did we get in? How many? No, who's going to final four and who can win it? And I think some of that became when NC State and 74 beat, that was Bill Walton and it wouldn't like,

they'd just thrown them. And it was like, see, we're here. Like we're here. That's who we are. You know, and then, like you said, they go on them. Then Dean finally wins his, and then K gets all his. And it's pretty interesting. I hope Tony Bennett understands the pressure on him now to maintain that.

We're a team that won it. And they're not going to make the NCAA this year. I don't think Tony Bennett wants to be Darth Vader. I think he's too nice a guy. But, like, that's what you have to do in the ACC to gain real credibility. You should go to the final four. A or B, cut down the neck. And it started with Norm Sloan and David Thompson.

He's going to UCLA in 74. It did. And, you know, in that, you know, it's funny that you say that, and I'm sure that's been the case in recent years, but their actions, you know, contradicted that because they sent, they were the only conference in America that sent their tournament champion to the NCAA tournament. And in some years, their tournament champion wasn't their best chance to win the tournament.

You know, they had a whole thing on the South Carolina, the last South Carolina team that lost in the final to, Carolina, and they thought South Carolina had a chance to beat UCLA that year with John Roach and these are teams that I don't remember. I know, I met Joyce, though. Joyce was the tough guy. I think Joyce was on that team. Kremens was on the team before, yeah.

Yeah, he was assistant coach. He was assistant coach there, though. Yeah. So, yes. But anyways, this is all stuff that I got to watch this documentary about. But the ACC, they were the ones that took down, you know, they're the ones that took down the Goli. And, you know, David was us.

That's who took down UCLA. And by the way, no, I'm Sloan and Lefty. You talk about entertainment. Okay? Marketing-wise and entertaining-wise, nobody. They take a back seat to nobody. Well, the rise of the ACC, which really starts that season, because UCLA's finally dethroned.

And so the NCAA tournament, which was basically the tournament that UCLA won every year, all of a sudden was won by NC State. And the ACC's rise in the 70s really coincided with the incredible rise in popularity of college basketball. And that's, you know, ultimately why you got the Big East to form. And then we got maybe, I think, the greatest decade of college basketball, which was, you know, beginning in the 80s. But the 80s through the 2000, the aughts was the heyday. I don't feel college basketball is in the same place that it once was, even though people like you and I really love it,

it's really become, as everything has, in part because, well, large due, largely due to the, you know, year-round calendar that is the NFL. I mean, the NFL just dominates, you know, the news. But I think college basketball has become very much a March sport for most people. It's March Madness. Yeah, and they've developed that because they want the TV money themselves and it funds all the other sports, but I don't want to do a class.

I don't want to do a dissertation on that. I do want to tell you this. There was a time, and I don't know how baseball does it, why baseball and college baseball do three years, and I don't know why the NFL has nobody be one and done, but it killed us. I know.

The one is done, forget the transfer rule, because I can live with that, even though I don't like that. I don't like NIL and transfer, but I don't want to be the old guy. I can live with it. But the one and done, and now we don't even have guys go.

Then we can't even have, you know, it really pisses me off. So you tell me, and I'm disappointed in Adam Silver, that's too bad. I like Adam Silver. I saw him speak down at the Engineers Club or the Economic Club in D.C., wherever he was. And I wanted to raise my hand and say, you don't think seven months on a college campus helps the kid? You don't think going to Kentucky and for John Calipari from August 31st until April 15th helps you? Because you learn how to practice. Calipari, a really smart guy.

have a big count by 10. I don't care what he does to get players. But like, you don't think going one year, now we don't even have one and done. They get to go to the G League at night and play in front of seven people. Are you kidding me? That thing stinks.

Okay? And the overtime elite high school thing, that stinks too. Compared, now they might prep you, but like, and now overseas kids can hide over there like Denny Avi did, which is fine,

and go to Barcelona. In the past, they would have came to Yukon or wherever, because you can't have the Israelis that came over who was really. So in other words, you would have said whether you're in Spain, Lithuania, Israel, wherever, I want to go play college for a year, let alone four, and get my degree, like, and go to the final four. And I remember talking to Andrew Gaines, who did it at St. Hall. I was down Australia doing a clinic.

Andrew Gage's dad was Limbaugh, he was like the Morgan Woot of Australia. Right. And how that impacted his life, and he did want to play in the NBA, but he went back to play in Australia. But it didn't matter because he had spent two years and went to the final four with Seaton Hall, and it was at the time of his life, and everybody looked at that great. I'm really disappointed that we've left that slip through our fingers. Of course, I wish it was like baseball and football, where he had to do three years.

I do. I don't know where that went. I don't know if the NBA would need it to talent. Kids have the right to make money. I don't know. I'm not a Supreme Court justice, okay? But I do know this. Going for six months to college can only help you.

whether you're on the campus of Loyola, the campus of Morgan State, because I'm looking out the city, or going to Maryland or going to Kentucky or UCLA and meeting new people and learning how to interact and travel and practice every day at a higher level.

And that has really hurt college basketball in those other months. Marks Madness is still here, Kevin, but having guys for three and four years, I mean, later and early, like that was just insane because they were so good and they didn't leave. It was Larry Johnson.

Michael Jordan State four years. Patrick Healy. But like, even if they stayed one, I wish they stayed two. I wish they stayed two, so they really get to know people on their campus. They get better, and they get better from their freshman and sophomore year, and then be approaching 20 and then get them out. Jay Wright does a good job of that, but my thing is I wish they stayed two years. You know, I just, I love you.

You know that because I love how my conversations with Jimmy, whether they're in person or on the air, just start veering in different directions. But I always love them because, I'm sitting here listening to you and I'm sure we'll get into like the Battle of Midway. We'll get into the Battle of Midway and maybe the McKinley, the McKinley assassination before the show is over. But the last dance, Michael Jordan in the last dance,

said something. First of all, I totally agree with what you said. I wish it were two years. And I think that you have to have, you have to have people in your life that express how important this experience. is Michael Jordan, the great Michael Jordan, and that last dance. One of my favorite portions of that series was him at Carolina and what Carolina meant to him. He's a Carolina man. He's a North Carolina man. The relationships, the connection, the lifelong connection to that university is, it's worth so much

that experience. You know, and I look at LeBron James sometimes, and I don't want to be overly judgmental. LeBron, I think, has been very limited in some of those life experiences that would have been so significant to him. And I don't blame him, you know, number one pick in the draft providing for family economics. I get all that. But it doesn't replace the fact that both things can happen and that missing out on that experience, I think it's a big miss. It's a big hole in the development of their overall, you know, person. Jordan talking about Carolina, it was so important. The relationships with Buzz Peterson and James Worthy, like Dean Smith and Guthridge and Roy,

all of those, like it's just such an incredible part of his life, and he's Michael Jordan. So, of course, there's something to get big game. Right now, the best player in the league, the two best players in the league went to college. Joe L&B is probably going to get MVP any of Kansas. I think he went a year or two. Yeah. And Steph Curry has a legacy of Davidson. We all know about Davidson. By the way,

the Davidson is doing great. They're going to make a tourney run this year. They now have a Korean kid Lee, who's going to be a draft pick who's developed into three years, but never would have made one year in the G League, whatever. How good is Michael up as a coach, by the way? How great is he as a coach? He's great. He's a teacher. He builds that program every day from within.

I've been down there. but he also plays fast. And, you know, I got to run soon, but we'll talk about how I want to coach the next coach of Maryland to be a guy that runs that plays fast and runs. Because you develop Steph Curry by playing fast because you've got to move him around because you can't guard him. But I love the Jordan, that Jordan's, hey, Patrick Ewing,

and I'm sorry what's happening at Georgetown, but at least he tried, and he did sneak him in the NCAA, but he came home. You know, he came home, not to Jamaica, not to Boston. he came home to Georgetown. Like, that's his home. Carolina's his home. You know, Juan Dixon will always be home will always be, you know, at Maryland.

Right. The Duke guys have to another. That's another thing about Kay. Coach Kay's built a real, real family. You know, that was one of the things that was the knock on Velvano was, it wasn't really a family. I don't want to cast aspersions on someone who's not here and defend themselves, but Carolina had their family, Duke built their family.

Well, Valvano was kind of all over the place and doing it different. and there wasn't really like a family atmosphere there. So those two would use that against him to recruit against him. But Maryland, we have a family. And Turg's a good guy. I miss him. I mean, I knew Turg's wife really well. But like, I don't know if Turgs ever embraced the Maryland basketball family.

And that's what we need back at Maryland because it is a family. And the ACC created those families, much like Wooden taught us to do. And then in Kentucky and Kansas, how do we get that back to being a family? because Michael Jordan just said it on the most watch thing during the epidemic that Carolina's his family. Well, in talking about family, nothing was more family displayed than last week when all of you guys came together for the 20-year anniversary. I mean, that was so special, and it was so cool to see every single person.

I know that Dave Dickerson didn't make it back. He was coaching, and I understand that he had a loss here recently in his life. But I, you know, what you guys had were. And by the way, part of that, and I say sometimes I think you guys underestimate this. I don't think you do and I don't think Gary does, but I think sometimes players and coaches do. They miss out on like what is really part of the extended family, which are those that are living and dying on every shot, either in the arena or on television watching. But anyway, let's get to what's next. What's next, meaning the next head basketball coach at Maryland?

And we will do that with Jimmy Patsos right after these words from a few of our sponsors. You know, and I've told you this, Petino was my number one from the beginning. I knew there was going to be pushback, et cetera. I don't think the pushback of the negative PR really would have had much of an impact. I think people would have forgotten about that. Most of those people don't go to the games or care about the games anyway. But Petino came out and I think definitively said no. through that tweet yesterday.

I don't think it was like a negotiating ploy. But I wanted him, but it looks like we're not going to get him. And I'm not saying that it was a realistic thing to begin with anyway. Where is Marilyn right now on their coaching search? I think David had a good job along with Darrell Pines, who were both at the 20th anniversary of the National Championship team. And that was a great celebration. And they got to hold their cards close to their desk.

Look, you got guys that are coaching their teams right now. down. And the one I really remember on that was remember when Roy Williams was all upset, someone asked him about Carolina, even though he did go to Carolina. He said, I got a locker room full of guys in there. I got to get to the Final Four. I got a coach he's got. So whether you're, let's throw it out there, whether you're in the endfield, Kevin Willard, Ed Cooley, who were, well, Pearl was my job choice was Bruce Pearl. Well, he chose in December, and I mean, in January, I was down there. I got to IMG, and then they were going to play Oklahoma over in Kentucky, so the place is on fire.

They had this two-game swing. Well, he said, I'm staying, and I want to be here. I think guys that are winning, they see Maryland coming, and Louisville, by the way, has an awfully good job open, too. There'll be other jobs open, but Louisville, when you have a banner hanging, as Gary Williams says, it proves you can be a great program, you know. That's just the way it is.

When you have a banner hanging that says national champions, well, Louisville will pay. We're clearly a better place to live and have more players in the area. But Louisville's got a great tradition, and then Maryland. So those two jobs are open. Well, they've been open a long time, and that creates a lot of speculation. When in reality, it would have been, this would be the week you've decided, if you want, you know, UMass just get rid of their coach.

There's going to be a bunch of dominoes, and the immortal words of Rob 80s, my great lawyer friend from D.C., there will be 30 to 50 job openings every year for the rest of your life in college basketball. And that's how it goes, and they're coming. but they've been had to deal with it since December. You know, that's a long time. So I think Petino would have been great at turning the program around quickly. He's a great teacher. I went to his golf tournament and I own a last year up at Y King Yo, which is next to Wingfoot.

He runs everything perfectly. He's like a general that has his pulse of the finger. He knows how to run a program. But I think he has a big buyout. I think a lot of his friends in New York stuck their neck out for him. I'm sure they had some type of fun. call. I don't know this, but I know it. Like, hey, we back to you, we love you,

we want to go to a racetrack, we want to go to Saratoga, we want to play Wingfoot, we want to go to the garden, we expect you to be around, we brought you back, and Rick's the loyal guy and said, you know what? This time, I had to go to Greece to resurrect my career, and you guys gave me a chance. Does that mean he doesn't want a job in the Mexico Pollittal of the area in a year

or two? Let's not get silly now, okay? If he can coach a team, that happens to play in the garden, I'll just leave it at that. But then all his constituents that brought him back, say, Oh, that's okay. Because you like being around Rick Petino. You do.

You want to go to Rayos or the Italian restaurants or Campanola or whatever with him and then do all this stuff he does because he's a charismatic guy that can really make a program better. But he also makes players better. And he can sit people in the stand and he gets players better by being on the court with him. So he would have been great. I just think he's at his age where he said, you guys got me back. I'm going to stay. And now let's figure this out because you guys.

be in and I'll just, by the way, maybe like Gonzaga, he's going to be at Iona. Now, there's other team, St. Peter's mom and Ciena in the Mac, but right now he's got a strangle hold on that league. So, like we just talked about, it doesn't matter anymore in college basketball until March. So if he can

win the Mac and get in the NCAA March Madden of 6018 bracket, isn't that all that matters? And this might be his best way to do that, because he can win the Mac with the best players just like few does, you know, out of Gonzaga, with the path of least resistance.

So I wish it was him because he's a great teacher. I wish he was pro, because I think he's a modern guy that can do a little of everything. He gets players and they stay for two years, and he also gets lottery picks and all that. But he's gone. So who is it now? Don't be afraid to say this, Kevin. There might be somebody coming that we don't know about, like Shock is smart, with Jim Laronega that made their runs.

And I asked the question around some people, would anybody, you know, we were, you know, there's a lot of chitch out over the weekend. What if there was somebody new that made won their tournament and won a game or two or went to the Sweet 16, like Andy Enfield did to get the Florida Coast Coast job, like Soccerty Smart did, like Jim Laroni did at George Mason, like Mark Turgeon did when he took Wichita State to the Sweet 16, then got Texas A&M. So there's a lot to be seen in the next three weeks. I know it sucks to be patient. I have to be patient. I know a lot of people in the business and all that. But this is, they got, they're keeping their cards close to their chest.

There's a search firm. I think the right people, the most important person to consult is Gary Williams. I know that he's a little involved. I'm sure he wants to be more involved. I think he will be more involved as this gets closer. You're not even in your conference tournament, and clearly they want to hire someone who's successful, so you're going to have to wait a little longer because there's an NCAA tournament.

But maybe there is somebody that's going to emerge in these next three weeks, and let's see how that goes. I don't know. Like you just, you never know, because who's going to stay, who would take it and then who's going to emerge from somewhere that like the average person doesn't know about. Okay. First of all, what you said about Gary's involvement. God, I'll be really angry if I find out that he wasn't involved enough.

That's A. B, this is just a question for you and you would know this, I wouldn't. When, isn't it, is it typical that at this point when you know you're going to have an opening and in Maryland's case they've known since December, that you would already kind of have it narrowed down to one or two guys. Like, isn't Damon's job with or without the search firm to basically take this time and this head start to nail something down or not? Good question.

But you have to see who will take it because guys, guys that are playing well, they get extensions. You know, they walked in and saw Pearl and, you know, they probably wondered why I was down there. I worked for Under Arm, and that's why I was down there. But I said, oh, here is, you know, Pearl, he's smart. He's probably like Under Armour, the Maryland guy down here.

See, they want me. Oh, give me five more years, you know? Like, I'm just half joking, but, like, guys are going to use this job to get extensions if they're happy where they are. This is chess match, you know? Who has great contract? Who has full, I don't have a fully guaranteed contract,

and I had a buyout. It was a nightmare. While these guys maybe can maneuver their contract where we get more years, I get less of a buyout, and I get all my money guarantee, because they don't want to lose their coaches, because there's not as many, there's not as many coaches out there. You know, Mike Braves name should be thrown in there

because of what he's doing and his local ties. I know he's happy at Notre Dame, but he's having a really good year, and he's really good guy, and he knows the DMV, and even though he coached the Duke, he's not a Dukey, which is, you know, I know that's part of the, you know. I don't think anybody would care about the Dookie thing, but doesn't, like, so that name was mentioned to me. I don't think they want an immigrant here.

I mean, I don't think. Well, but, but, but, but, but, but, but Bray's, you know, he's from here. And, and he knows, he knows, he knows the importance of the job. And, but I kind of feel like with Bray, that was a 10 years ago thing. You know, not that all that he's playing. I like Bray because he plays up tempo. He's obviously, he was one of the best friends of Jack Bruin, who I play. I know.

I'm a huge brave fan, but there is this other group that could emerge. You know, there are hot coaches. Murray State's playing really well. well, John Becker in Vermont, if he could win an NCAA game, scores a million points. I'm not sick. You know, Bob McKillop's not leaving Davidson. That's over, you know? So I'm just saying you.

Would Ed Cooley leave Providence? Would Ed Cooley leave Providence? I'm a huge Cooley fan. I don't know. He's from Providence. He's at Stonehill. I know. He's never crossed over the G.W.

Ridge. He's the assistant at B.C. Goes to Stonehill. Gets the Fairfield head job. We go at it. Gets Providence because that's where he's from. builds Providence. They have a practice facility. They're going to figure out the NIL. They don't have football. There's plenty of of my Wall Street money there. He's happy there. And they packed the Dunkin' Donuts Arena because there's nothing going on. And URI stinks right now.

So he has a chance to capitalize on that. Like when your opponent's down, like URI is a really good program, but they stink right now. So like he owns the state. B.C. is in Nobiansland. And UConn's back in the Big East. That's real. So now it's him and Yukon I think if Yukon was still in the American, he would never take the job because he owns New England in the prep schools and the market. Like, you got to look at that stuff. We have seven

pro teams here. If the Hoyas ever figure it out, you've got all these other teams playing. And like, he has New England on lockdown, but now Hurley's back. I get it. Like, that's how I look at jobs. Like, he's packing the dunk, and it only holds 13, and they get eight every night.

No matter who they play, when they're playing good, they packet, like there's a lot of things. You've got to rebuild it, Maryland, a lot. The seats are empty. Great job against Ohio State, everybody coming out. But we need a practice court. Well, he has one. Now, can you get that then? Of course you can. What's the NIL going to be like? They're at a

private school. They can probably do whatever they want with the NAL. We're state sanctioned. Texas and Florida have said NIL, we already passed legislation in one day. I don't think that's going to happen as fast in places like California and Maryland for political reasons or, you know, they're just different states.

So you got an NIL thing, you've got a practice court facility thing. After those two things, it's one of the best jobs in the country. But those are two big things you've got to figure out very quickly because when you don't have those at other schools that you coach at, it's not a big deal. But when you do have those figured out and ready to go, it's like, wow, I'm going to a place that doesn't have a practice facility. And there's no, like, the locker rooms and all that are okay.

There's no nutritionist. There's no cold tub, hot tub. You got to go around the country. I go to Auburn and Texas Tech and Utah and Texas Tech, unbelievable situation. Yeah, okay. They don't have recruits like we have, but there's only two teams that don't have a practice

court. That's Cal. Well, B.C.'s got half a one, but they still volleyball's in this, so I don't count it. That's below average. Cal and Maryland don't have one. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. I'm hugging a big east. That's it.

You guys are... Like, when you go around, you can't walk you're getting the recruits and tell them that stuff. You're getting an education, those of you that are listening right now, as to the pros of the Maryland job and the cons of the Maryland job, not to mention some real insight as to, you know, the personal situations that coaches have that end up, you know, becoming more important, especially considering now that you can basically win from anywhere.

It's really important because, you know, I've sat here and I've dealt with Maryland fans on the air and social media and conversations. And I've always said, be careful what you wish for. I love my university, and I know it is one of the best 10 to 15 winning opportunities in the country for all of the great reasons. But they don't have a practice facility. And some of you would say, well, that's crazy. What does that even mean? They have Exfinity Center.

No, every school except for Maryland and Cal have dedicated buildings and practice facilities. We spend it all on Coalfield House. and the football facility. Then you get into NIL stuff, and then you get into the pro-market stuff. And yeah, there's a lot. There's so much there. Okay, I know you've got to run,

so I'm going to finish up with two things. Give me the two or, give me the three, four. I think it's such a wide open year. I'm actually enjoying this college basketball season. Give me the teams you think, or, you know, have the best chances to win it all. Well, look, I got Auburn and the FCC. which I'm going to their tournament next week.

I know four years ago when I stopped coaching, you know, the big East, the ACC were taken. I was with, I worked for example. And I said, oh, I'll take the SEC tournament. And everyone said, oh, okay. Because, you know, people that I worked with wanted to go to New York or the ACC. We had Notre Dame there and all that stuff. So I got Auburn and South Carolina.

I went down. It was in Nashville. Fantastic. This is the only year. It's not Nashville. Okay? But it's a wonderful tournament that you should go to. They're going to.

That week's really got good. Oh, yeah. Well, I got Auburn and Kentucky. in Kentucky. I got Arizona and I got Ketaga out west another in different leagues

but the Arizona coach Tommy Lloyd came from A-Han Ketga. I'm kind of sleeper. I just, Kansas hasn't really got it together. I don't know

Providence has had a really good year but I don't know if they're just talented enough you know, big enough. So like those are my four and then you know, I just,

it's really a little bit weird to think who could come and who couldn't come and all that kind of stuff. But like, I swear to God, the Davidson team is really interesting. They'll be like a 7-8-9 seed, but that means they can be the one seed and get in there. And then, you know, it's just something about Duke,

how do you bet against Duke in his last year? You know, how do you bet against Duke? And Texas Tech has done a really good job. I saw that be Tennessee. So, like, Texas Tech, Duke, Davidson's a long shot. Don't get me wrong, but they're still really good. But, like, Texas Tech and Duke, outside of those four I would take. I just don't think Villanova's got the size

he can be the coach. I haven't seen Baylor enough. So I'm going Kentucky, Auburn. I'm going Arizona. I'm going Gonzaga. And then Duke is, of course, with what he does. Like Johnny Davidson's really good, but their inside games just not so great. They play really slow and we'll see. But

how do you not take Duke in there? So those are my five. You pick any four you want. Arizona's just really big and always scores fast. And Gonzaga is Gonzaga. I love Chad Holgram. but does he does Duke, does he like go to the Final 4 and win it all in his last year and walk off?

They can. They can. They can. They can. They got a bunch of D.C. kids on that team from Paulus. They could. They've got Rouch and Keels. They've got PVI, by the way, turning into a power with that new campus. I wanted to just mention a couple of teams real quickly. It's Glenn Ferrillo.

Yeah, it's a great job. Give me, give me, give me your stuff. So right now, I don't know that anybody, is playing better offensively than Iowa. And I think Keegan Murray is really, really good. I think he should be the Big Ten player of the year over Davis. And they've got shooters from everywhere. Obviously, Bohan.

It's funny because McCaffrey is one of those guys. He's never been out of the first weekend. Never. But they are a team right now. Is that crazy? The closest he came really was at CNN. Well, and last year was, you know, obviously their highest-seated team with Luca.

but they're playing much different without Luca. Yeah, but they got blown out. Yeah, I know. But they are very difficult to guard. And then on the other side, because I don't think Iowa's ever guarded that well under McCaffrey, on the flip side, I've always been the biggest Rick Barnes fan, and I think Tennessee is really tough and physical, and they're playing well right now.

And I know there are nights where they struggle to score a little bit, but I think that team is a really interesting. team to watch here down the stretch. You'll see them up close of the SEC tournament. Yes, I'm a big Tennessee fan. I saw them. They did not play well. Rick Bond, he worked for Gary Williams in Ohio

State. Rick Bond is a great guy. They have a great point card of freshman who's going to be gone. He's a little slight, but he's got a little John Moranty in him. He ain't that good. I mean, he doesn't fly like that, but he's close. But they have a really good team, and he's a really good coach, and they will be a toughout. And he is

about who's playing well right now. I didn't give you my favorites. I didn't give you my favorites. I was just giving you a couple from the outside. No, no. Like, I think Houston, I think Kelvin Samson's team isn't as good as they were last year, but I still think that they are a very difficult matchup and could get back to a, I mean, it wouldn't shock me if they ended up back in a final four.

No, no, there was a couple of years ago. I might have wanted Kelvin here as a coach, too. I like him. This team's offensive rebound. He makes crimes is going to, like, Grimes is on the downward trend to Kansas. dying and goes to Houston and resurrect himself and is playing well for the Knicks now. So Kelvin can resurrect die, the offensive rebound. I really like them. Unfortunately, I got to go, but I want to leave you with this.

It was McKinley was assassinated in Buffalo, which was an interesting thing. Because I've been there. And by the way, that's why the Secret Service was invented because he was a third president. Yeah, it was some. Garfield was the second and Lincoln obviously was the first. but McKinley was assassinated in Buffalo, New York, and I think it was by some Czech sort of anarchist kind of guy. I forget the name.

Yeah, I didn't know that as much. We used to put a Buffalo every year, besides Niagara Falls. Rick James is group. We're talking about Niagara Falls. Take them there. Rick James is grave, and we're talking about McKinley's assassination. I got to go. Wait, wait, wait, hold on.

The greatest player in Mack in history was? I mean, I would think he would bet Johnny Dawkins. Tell me who. Well, Austin Carr played it Mack and. Oh, there you go. Okay, so he's the greatest. And Jojo Hunter really was one of the greatest high school basketball players this city's ever seen. Wasn't as great of a college player. But Austin Carr, of course, went on to Notre Dame of great acclaim. When you walk into the Notre Dame Fieldhouse to go through the, like, the basement.

The lobby is one thing. the hallway where the players walk out is called Arston Carr Hallways. So kudos to you. Love you. You do know that he holds the NCAA tournament record for the most points ever in a game. He scored 61 in a tournament game. All right, go. Thanks for doing this.

Despite Degger's coaching, he got 61. Goodbye. Jimmy Patsos, everybody. God, I love him. I love the conversations with Jimmy. They veer in so many different directions, but they are always informative and interesting. Heads up, another show this weekend.

I'm not promising what will be on it, but there will be another show out this weekend. So enjoy your remainder of this Friday, Friday evening, until we podcast again.