The Kevin Sheehan Show - Let's See It Already!

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

Kevin and Thom today on the anticipation of the bombshell story that few know anything about and won't until they read it. Also thoughts on Larry Michael's sudden retirement and is Donnie Warren a part of the front office or not? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. A Sports Fix Thursday, Tommy, by phone. And man, what a show today's show will be. We don't even have a rundown for the show. We don't have a plan for the show because things are breaking and coming out as we're doing the show. I am going to tell you up front that it is.

is 10.45 a.m. Eastern time. And by the time some of you get to this podcast, it will seem or could seem very dated, Tommy, as we say, in the trade. I had been standing on the show today and had to give out that same disclaimer that by the time people listen to the show, a lot of what we had talked about could be, you know, it could be dated. There could be new information. We didn't have the... Well, I think people think when they listen to... to the sports fix, time stands still. Well, maybe they do. I didn't have the Larry Michael story when I was doing the show yesterday with Ben.

So we didn't have a chance to talk about that. We will get to that, among other things. But today's show, you know, we did talk prior to the show about discussing their tight ends and whether or not we wanted to do a segment on the Redskins' tight ends situation. I'm not necessarily convinced Thadius Moss is going to be the answer. I like Jeremy Sprinkle. You said you would prefer, you know, Richard Rogers getting the best chance to play. Nobody cares about this football team.

I wanted to just mention something real quickly before we get into all of the, you know, breaking news and the stories that are out there and all of the media people, Tommy, in town, you know, teasing what they may or may not know. We'll get to all of that in a moment. I know. But did you pick up on the press release that the Redskins sent out yesterday about Jeff Scott? I'm going to tell you what I, what someone sent to me this morning that I did not have for the radio show because I didn't notice it and I didn't look at this press release, but I looked at it after they sent me a text after the show this morning. Does this involve Donnie Warren? No.

Jeff Scott has been the... Okay. The director of football strategy and a scout in the organization, and he's been in the organization for several years now. So yesterday the team announced that they promoted Scott to the role of assistant director of pro scouting advance coordinator. That's basically the Richard Mann position. So he got promoted to that position. What was very interesting, as was pointed out by a friend of mine via text this morning after the show, is that there was no mention of Redskins and there was no Redskins logo or anything on the press release.

Now, the only mention of Redskins is in email addresses for their three PR people, you know, Sean, Jesse, and Charlie. Their email addresses are still Redskins.com email addresses. This is the first press statement since Monday statement about the team name. And it's titled, Washington promotes Jeff Scott to Assistant Director of Pro Scouting Advanced Coordinator, and then opens with Washington announced today and doesn't mention Redskins. It's all about Washington in the press release. He pointed this out. A friend of mine pointed this out, and I went read it, and I'm like, well, they have now moved on officially.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, there's something else going on there. What? I'm trying to get to you right now. What's his title? Jeff Scott's new title is Assistant Director of Pro Scouting slash Advance Coordinator. What do you try to do? It was reported a couple of days ago that Donnie Warren was hired as Washington's assistant director of pro personnel. Right. Which is true.

Right. Pro personnel. This is pro-scouting. I don't know. Maybe they have two of them. I mean, Alex Santos and Richard Mann were both on the pro side, not the college side, in terms of their organizational front office chart. You know, Alex was always their pro scout. You know, I've heard a lot of different things. And obviously he was fired with no explanation. And, you know, we're all thinking that he's going to be a part of whatever, you know,

comes out here, I guess, at some point. But, yeah. I mean, we never got any official word that Donnie Warren was hired, did we? I thought we did. Oh, we didn't get a press statement. No. We didn't get a press release already. It's been reported.

That's true. That's true. It's been reported. They didn't send out a press statement. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer to that. You know, Kyle Smith is the overseer of, of player personnel. He's the VP of

player personnel. And then remember they've got the guy Tim Gribble, who is now the director of college scouting. And then Alex and Richard Mann's positions were taken by Jeff Scott, who was just promoted. And I guess I was thinking Don Warren. I'm now

going to their website to see if they've updated their front office organizational chart. Dan Snyder's still the owner. Robert Rothman, Dwight Schar, and Fred Smith are still the ownership group. Doug Williams is still the senior VP of player development. Rob Rogers is the senior VP of Football Administration. He's the guy that took Eric Schaefer's spot. You've still got, you know, Stephen Choi, the CFO, Scott Shepard, Chris Boyer, and then you get to

player personnel. Kyle Smith, Tim Gribble, Jeff Scott. Brian Zetchis is the personnel coordinator pro scout. Donnie Warren is not, they have updated this. because there's no more Alex Santos or man, and I do not see anywhere Donnie Warren on this. So maybe he didn't get hired. Look at what we're just figuring out. All we've got to do is turn the mics on and start talking, and then we start figuring things out with no preparation today. So this is a big Donnie Warren mystery. Did he get hired or not?

and if he did get hired, did he suddenly say to him, whoa, wait a minute. You know, I just stay home in Carolina and watch YouTube videos. I'm not coming to that way. We don't know what happened with this whole Donnie Warren thing. Well, you know, this could be all a diversion. All this stuff could be a diversion about the big Donnie Warren story. I have a feeling we've stumbled on. to, Donnie Warren has actually not been hired by the organization.

Yeah. Because we also got that Eric Stokes, you know, who got hired from the Panthers a few days ago to be the director of pro scouting. Let me see if they've got him on the org chart. They don't. They don't have him on here either. So maybe they're just still, it's still in flux. I don't know anything about Donnie Warren, whether or not it's, he's in or not. He should be in the ring of fame.

Of course. Yeah, and he is a three-time Super Bowl champion. We know that, too. Okay. And a hell of a nice guy, by the way. A hell of a nice guy. All right. So, well, we start with this.

The post story has not come out yet. The story that we think is going to be put out by the post. Everybody seems to think it's the post. But even that hasn't been completely finalized. or reported, but I think we all know that it's going to be a Washington Post story. I think, Tommy, let me start with this, if I may. I think the most newsworthy item between last night and right now that I've been able to find was the Josina Anderson report.

Josina Anderson, who is no longer with ESPN, interestingly, She left ESPN in June, and I thought Josina did a phenomenal job as a reporter at ESPN. And Josina's always had an in through the Redskins organization. She's always reported a lot of stuff and been close to the Redskins. She did a lot of the Trent Williams reporting. Yes, she did. She sent out a tweet very early this morning saying that a source on the forthcoming news involving the Washington NFL team, lawyers are involved.

That was the tweet. I think we talked about this. I think I may have suggested this to you on the, no, it wasn't you, to Ben. I think I suggested this to Ben on the podcast as to why the story wasn't out. And I said, it's very possible that lawyers are involved, that there's some legal delays,

that people are concerned and making sure that whatever is going to come out in that story they feel really good about so that they, you know, have a legal leg to stand on when they get sued. Well, look, any publication with the resources to do so would have a story like this go through lawyers. Right. You know, I mean, that would be standard.

I mean, you know, go back and watch the movie, The Papers, about the Pentagon Papers. Yeah, I love it. That was a good movie. Yeah. of the vetting process, I think still in some places like the post, where a story like this would go through. Now, somebody suggested on social media that this could all wind up, the story could wind up being spiked, and we could never see anything. And I pointed out that, let's not forget, it was the New York Times that broke the cheerleader story.

Right. and I pointed out there's more sharks in the water than just the Washington Post. And in this day and age, never count out TMZ. I was just going to mention that. I have been all morning long, just every once in a while, checking with TMZ sports. Yeah, because, again, if the, I mean, the Post may be working on something, but I guarantee you that other news sources at this point since the alarm has been sounded with the resources to do so are working on the same thing.

So what you're suggesting is it's very possible that we will get the scaled down version from the post. We won't get everything that they know because of concerns that they have over legal ramifications. No, I'm not, I'm saying someone suggested that on social media today that this could all be just be nothing. We could never see, you know, the light of what really was going on. And I pointed out, and I just was pointing out that there's more people trying to shine the light other than the post, I'm sure, on this story. So, you know, at some point somebody may, I'm just pointing out that I just don't think, Everyone has to wait and see what the post does here. I think there are other sharks swimming in the ocean.

But somebody that pointed that out to you was suggesting that as perhaps the post may be having to back off some of what they have. Yes. Okay. I just want to make sure I'm clear on that. And what you're saying is that's fine, but there are other people that will roll the dice and go with it. There may be. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, at this is – I mean, at this point, since every – Everybody in America knows there's a story coming. If you have the resources to compete for that story, you've said your reporters digging for that. I mean, look, ESPN as top investigative reporters like Don Vanada and guys like that, I guarantee people like that are all over a story like this. And everyone is trying to get to the finish line. So there are a couple of things related to this.

First of all, we don't have it yet. We don't know what it is. There's a possibility we may not get the whole thing. All of these things are in play. We just don't know. I'll be very clear like I was yesterday. I like probably a lot of media people in town. I have such a minimal amount of information that I can't even confirm,

but was like many media people in town. given a heads up that there was a potential bombshell story that was going to come out about the culture of the organization without a lot of specifics. Now, once I hear that, I can start to guess on what some of the specifics are because I've, you know, we've all sort of known some of the things that have been going on or heard stories about things that have been going on and people who will say, well, why haven't you told us those stories. Well, some of them we have. And others, you don't say because you're not entirely sure, and you're not going to damage somebody's reputation or hurt somebody personally without knowing it

for sure. And even in those cases, I mean, you've got to be very careful. But I really don't know anything about what's going to be in this story. I, like many of you, have been following this on social media for the last 48 to 60 hours and have read a lot of things. I mean, there's a story that came out this morning with a title about sex trafficking in Dan Snyder. And it looked to me to be a bogus website. Like I got it at 7.15 this morning. And CJ and I are looking at it. And I'm like, I'm not reading anything from this story.

This looks like a fake site to begin with. And I don't know if that's even true. You're going to have a lot of that going on. What became a huge trend on Twitter last night. Dan Snyder was the number one trend for a long. period of time last night and this morning, I don't know if he is anymore, is these two words together, Dan Snyder and Jeffrey Epstein, that thing took off last night. But I don't know, and you know, you can speak next. I don't have anything definitive other than my belief that

there is a big time story planned to come out from the Washington Post that would deal with the organization's culture primarily over a period of time, and it will be damaging. Other than that, I can't help you right now. I can't. Others may feel like they can help you, and others are certainly indicating on Twitter that they got it all. They got the whole thing, but they just won't say it. But that's where I am right now. Where are you? I'll tell you what the most credible nuggets I've got the ones that I mean and basically what I've got

is reaction to whatever this is I don't have anything that I would consider credible about what the story is about what I consider credible is the reaction that I have to the story from high-ranking people in the league. And it was two, two descriptions. One was the next 40, and this was, yes, last night, I was told the next 48 hours are going to be key to all this. And B, it could be Carolina

Part 2. As in Jerry, Jerry Richardson, and the Carolina Panthers. But that comes, Those two things come from a source that would be very plugged in. But as far as what will cause those things to happen, I couldn't even begin to talk about that. Yeah. Jerry Richardson, who was the owner of the Panthers, was forced to sell his team after a report back in 2017 that four, former Panthers employees received a significant monetary settlement due to inappropriate workplace comments in conduct by owner Jerry Richardson, including sexually suggestive language and behavior. And I think there was also something in there about a racial slur as well at one point.

I could be wrong about that. Are you saying that the comparison with with Richardson was about being forced to sell the team, or was a comparison to the specific reasons he was forced to sell the team? It was a comparison to the specific reasons. Okay. But again, you know, in terms of going into those reasons, that's the murky playground right now that's on social media

that I don't want to play in. Yeah. Nor do I. I'm entertained by it. I'm entertained by it. And I did say, you know, with you on Tuesday and on Monday, I believe that there's a bombshell of a story, but I did not know. I have no details.

I do want to read some of these tweets, though, from last night. And I'm going to read one specifically from a gentleman who's a good friend of mine, who I will mention here shortly, because this was very out. of character for him in particular. It's somebody you know as well. But last night, just the incredible social media storm over this story and what it was going to be about. And, you know, people getting, you know, out there trying.

Look, I don't know what their intent was in terms of what they're really trying to do. I did want to mention real quickly that a friend of mine texted me early this morning, maybe it was late last night, saying redskin fans should receive a salary for being red skin fans because it is hard work. And I also got a tweet, and I think you did too from Josh, who said, remember when we used to call it Rock Bottom when this team had a bad season and changed coaches? That was cute. Yeah, I get that. But so the tweets started, Dave Ross, who used to be in this market, Channel 5, and did some work on the radio station, in fact. Yeah, absolutely. I remember Dave. Great guy. Is Dave in Chicago now? I forget where he is.

He was in Chicago. Dave tweeted out very late last night early this morning. Just remember what our parents should have taught us. You reap what you sow. Sorry not to be more detailed, but you'll understand why. Get some sleep, D.C. It's all. come out, coming out very, very soon. Darren Haynes, who's the Channel 9 sportscaster, sources are telling me so S-O-O-O-O-O, much bad stuff that's about to come out about the Redskins. I could tweet details, but you can clearly see it's already all over Twitter. It's disgusting in capital letters, if it's all true. I'm going to bed now. This was supposed to be my vacation week. Well, you remember, I mean, okay, go ahead.

No, go ahead. Please interrupt. I mean, Jason Lockenforra... That was the night before, of course. Yeah. He was one of the guys who tweeted out some speculation, which I really didn't think he should have. But in what he said, he used the word sick.

Sickening. Sickening. He said what, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. which was pretty bold. I mean, pretty stark to use that word to describe this. And that seems to be a common thread.

I don't know if you saw it, but the Mattador tweeted out. Josh Norman. Oh, yeah. I've got that one ready to read, too. I've got that one. I'm going to read that one here in a moment. But Jason's tweet from Tuesday night, Tuesday night. I'm trying to find it here.

God, he tweets a lot and retweets an awful lot. And when people tweet a lot and retweet a lot, and you're trying to get just from a day earlier what their tweet was, it takes a while because it's a lot of scrolling through a lot of tweets. And I'm not there yet. So we'll just, oh, here, it's coming up. It's got to be coming up here. Come on, Jason.

Where are you, brother? Where's your tweet from the other night? Whatever. He basically, oh, here it is, I finally found it. The warped and toxic culture of the Washington football team is about to be exposed in a sickening fashion again. And on Tuesday night, Julie Donaldson from NBC Sports Washington, you know, described what we were going to hear is sad and disturbing, I think it was. But last night, I just read Darren Haynes. How about Chuck's tweet?

Did you see Chuck's tweet? Yes, I did. Chuck Sapienza, our former. program director at 980. Who worked for the Redskins on their charge of their game day celebration. He did. He doesn't anymore.

Yeah. No, he did. Chuck produced the games. Chuck not only produced the games on radio, but he was the statistician as well in some of those situations. God, I think he enjoyed doing stats on those games more than anything else he did. He loved that.

He did stats for me when I called a couple of those bowl games, the military bowl games. Chuck tweeted out. Chuck is the program director at 105.7, I think it is in Baltimore. It's the Vinnie Serato station. It's also the station that Jason Lock and Four is on now. Chuck tweeted out, if everything I'm hearing about this article is true, it would not surprise me if by this time next season, Washington will have a new owner of its professional football franchise. Then Josh Norman. You mentioned what Josh Norman sent out yesterday. Look, don't ask me no questions, but I will say this. What goes around comes around. What's done in the dark will surely come to light. God seems to always have

a way of repositioning his people at the right time to reveal truths without saying a single word. Cryptic, I would say. But here's my favorite. My favorite came from my good. friend of many, many years, Joe Yashirov. You read Joe's tweet last night, right? Yes. Okay. So for those that don't know, Joe, Joe was a media member for years and years, a behind-the-scenes producer, senior producer, coordinating producer, executive at Comcast Sportsnet, which is now NBC Sports, Washington. Joe teaches at the journalism school out at Maryland, the Merrill Journalism School that George Solomon for years put together and ran.

And recently George retired. And Joe teaches a class out there. Joe and I worked together for Buck way back when we were in our early 20s. And we've been friends ever since. And everybody who knows Joe really likes Joe. And let me just tell you before I read what he tweeted out last night, that Joe is an incredibly conservative thinking human being. I'm not talking about politically, because he's actually very liberal politically, but that's beside the point. He's just not a risk taker.

That's not his personality. You know, if he's going to tweet something out or if he's going to say something, he's going to be damn sure. And Joe probably has a lot of contacts. He's made a lot of contacts over the years. Absolutely. So last night was completely out of character for him. He tweeted out the following, not meant to be. cryptic, apologies if it comes across that way, Dan Snyder is going to be in trouble once the

story comes out. Big trouble. Possibly no choice but to sell the team trouble. The story has to drop Thursday. Too much is starting to trickle out. See you tomorrow. That was Joe's tweet. Add a character for him. Very much so. What's really funny, and I texted him last night afterwards because the night before when everybody was tweeting, you know, and everybody was getting annoyed because nobody was giving details on any of this. He tweeted out the following. I'm going to find it here. Bear with me.

Joe doesn't tweet that much. It shouldn't be that hard to find. He's been tweeting a lot in the last couple days. basically the night before, he basically criticized everybody for saying they had something without saying what it was. You know? Like, and so, oh, here it is, here it is, here it is, here it is. The night before, okay, no more teases, folks. People are sick of them.

I get it now. It's annoying. Everybody knows that you, I, we know. They don't care. Now let whoever is actually going to break the story break it. And no taking credit for it unless you. you broke it. Knowing something doesn't count. That was the night before. And then he tweeted out, and I texted him last night. I said, you just did what you, you criticized. He said, no, no, no.

He said, I had an extra morsel in my story about Dan Snyder being in selveteen trouble. And I said, ah, I love Joe. And he, I guarantee you, he's got information. He wouldn't have tweeted out what he tweeted out without it. But what we got all night last night and what we're continuing to get is a lot of people that claim they know something but aren't telling us what they know. And by the way, I understand that to a certain point. If you're not entirely sure, you have to be careful, especially if it involves something that could really damage somebody. Yeah, but listen, I mean, the only reason that journalists are doing this, the only reason is so when the news does come out, they can say their followers, look, I told you it was coming.

Right. I knew this. I just didn't write it, but I knew it. This is all cover your app, tweet. That's what they are. They're basically to show your followers that, look, I'm really plugged in. I really know what's going on. I just don't have all the details.

That's all they are. Have you been doing that? Well, let me explain. Okay. Hold on. I'm pulling up your Twitter. I go on a sad juice show every Wednesday at 5 o'clock, and when I was on with Chad yesterday, I basically ripped people for this.

I said that this is just, you know, to show people that I just like I described to you, I basically ripped everybody for doing it. That said, I had just tweeted a little bit earlier in response to the Larry Michael news about him, leaving, shoes dropping Bigfoot coming. Shoes dropping Bigfoot coming, yeah. But that was a direct response to the voice of the Redskins suddenly retiring with no fanfare or nothing from the team per se out of the blue. I mean, that combined with what I knew, which I still have not tweeted or anything like that,

I thought the Larry Michael move basically opened the door for, you know, something is going on. Something really is going on here. And here's proof. Here's proof. I mean, combined with the two guys who were fired before this, the Larry Michael, you know, resignation was very, very... Why didn't you tweet what you learned and you just said to me about having someone tell you that it could be a Jerry Richard? and situation? Well, because I think that's irresponsible.

To talk about it with you, I mean, this is a different kind of medium. I'm more of a positive with the Washington Times on Twitter, and I'm reluctant to do something like that. Look, look, there's a great line

in the movie, Biloxi Blues, Neil Simon play, where Matthew Broderick points this out. He said something like, when you put something on paper, no, it's when you write something, it takes on a whole different meaning.

And it could make we don't talk about paper anymore. We're talking about, you know, character bites. We're talking about computer bites. But when you do, when you type something out, it means something more than when you say it. It just has a different impact. So,

I was reluctant to do what I just talked about with you and still will not do on social media. But I did feel that the Larry Michael thing would indicate to any reasonable person, let alone the one, you know, with the information I had, that if Larry Michael is being forced to walk the plank, there will be others. I do want to mention John Kime, because John, who's a veteran reporter and is a true reporter. I mean, he's not a columnist, really. He's a reporter. He covers a team for ESPN. And I saw this this morning. Somebody tweeted to him, is this news going to be really bad?

And John, unlike a lot of people in the media the last couple of days, wrote the following. Not my story. You either have all the facts and can report something or you don't. Otherwise, it's just noise. That's a good point. I mean, that's a very good point. I think it's a good point that should be made to reporters. Well, yes, that's true, but we're opinion makers.

Well, opinion. I haven't tweeted anything about this. I don't want to because I don't have anything that would really further the conversation. That's just the truth. You know, and you and I have had some conversations privately over the last couple of days about different conversations we've had and different calls we've gotten or different calls that we've made. but I've told you, I'm like, it could be true, but I can't get a second person to tell me that it's true. And in fact, the second person said, no, there's no way that can be true.

So it's very, I'm going to let people who investigative report do it, and then we'll read it and we'll have a lot of reaction to it. We need to have a reaction to the Larry retirement, which was sudden. But before we get to that, I do want to ask you, because I find the last, and I found the last two days, to be unprecedented with respect to a story that hasn't come out, at least in sports. I don't remember anything resembling the buzz around and the anticipation for this story. Does anything come to mind for you? Nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind. It's a product of the Times.

And I don't recall any story that was promoted so heavily by competitors without knowing what the story really was. It's true. And, you know, a big part of that is obviously the Redskins, the skins, the Washington football club has been in the news. You know, it's been a stunning last several weeks. The team's name is gone. The owner had three minority partners who wanted out. There's discussion that the owner may want to sell.

Even before this story became known to people, known to media members in town. And one of the big reasons there's a shitload of anticipation for this is because Tommy, so many people, fans number one, lots of media people would love to see Dan Snyder go down. And if you're a fan, see them no longer own this team. This is an utterly unique. There are places where they hate the owner. I'm not suggesting this is the only place. But there is right now an expectation, and I'm afraid they might be disappointed.

I don't know. maybe they won't be. I say they, we. I'd be disingenuous if I told you that I didn't want a new owner. I've wanted a new owner forever. I'm not wishing personal tragedy to get to that conclusion at all. But if there is a story out there that leads to him surviving and not having his life wrecked, but being forced to sell the team, I'm all for that, and the significant majority of the fan bases for that too. This isn't, Jerry Richardson, I don't know if he was a popular owner or not, but he had a decent team and seemed to be a decent owner.

And maybe people knew a lot of things about him. But this has been an owner that people have been, you've suggested over the years that it's going to take something like this to get him out, maybe it'll happen one day. Yeah, I called it the trifecta for Dan Snyder leaving. Scandal, suspension, sale. Yeah. The three S's because it's hard.

And it's hard to get rid of an owner. Even an owner or the other owners don't like. There's this mentality among owners, well, if they can get rid of that guy, then maybe next time they can get rid of me. So they're very protective of each other. in that way. What's interesting is, I mean, look, I'm not a skin fan. I could care in some ways.

I don't want to say I could care. I don't know what the hell to think, Kevin. I'm confused because, I mean, because I don't care in a way. What happens to the team one way or the other, except how it affects my job. and to be honest with you, I don't know. If Dan Snyder is forced down as the owner, I don't know how I would ask. I don't know how to do my job anymore.

I don't know what to do. I said to you last night, we were talking, Tommy and I were talking last night, and I said, imagine that he sells the team, Jeff Bezos takes over, and it's like a real, live, competent organization. And I said to Tommy, what in God's name will you do? you've been institutionalized like in Shawshank Redemption. Like when Andy Dufrain in Red had the conversation about old Brooks being institutionalized. Yes, I'd be like an inmate on the outside saying, I don't know how to live out here.

I don't know how to live out here. Boss, can I go to the bathroom? I need to stop bagging these groceries for a couple of minutes. Hey, you can just go to the bathroom. You don't have to ask me. Well, you've been institutionalized. What would you do? If they were...

Now, now, Evan, now, the fact that people keep picking Jeff Bezos, listen, Jeff Bezos would be easy to hate. That could turn real quickly. He's not a likable figure. I agree with you. I mean, it's subjective, but I agree. I find, yeah. Yeah.

So that would be... But he might be a much more competent owner. He might be very good. Yeah. He might be really good at it, too. or good at like if he runs it like he did the put like he has the post put smart people in charge and think i don't know i don't know how much influence basos has at the post but marty baron is a pretty good pretty respected editor

in the business he's certainly not a vittic dorado or bruce allen yeah uh in those circumstances but you're right i mean i'm the guy who came up with the aura of self-destruction that's gone if Snyder is gone. I mean, the Surgeon General's warning that says it doesn't matter who coaches the team or who plays for the team. You'll never win with Dan Snyder. Still as Dan Snyder owns the team, that's gone too.

What am I going to do? We'll find stuff to talk about. Don't you worry? I know you're really concerned about what you would do if the organization all the sudden has an aura of competency and they start winning. But there's a long road to get to that. And there are no guarantee.

Look, there is a guarantee pretty much that you'll get a better owner because it's really hard to get one that's worse. But there's no guarantee that you'll get a great owner. Yeah, absolutely true. And by the way, they're well-owned teams that don't win. I do and have continued to get a kick. out of those that really get on the media in these times. I just think that's fascinating to me.

You know, I've got callers, one in particular, Ivan, who many of you, you know, hear call in. And, you know, it's always about how the media has basically been the reason that this franchise has failed. And it's just like 142, 193 and one with two playoff wins in 21 years. and lots of quarterbacks and lots of coaches and just lots of dysfunction and incompetency and embarrassment that's been discussed by the media. And in a lot of the media, like in what we do, there are a lot of people like me who are fans of the team in addition to being media.

And so we feel it emotionally when they're as bad as they've been, where there is dysfunctional as they've been. But you and I both know in what we do that if you're not honest, it won't work. Like if you, for how many years did people think, oh, you're owned by the Redskins? You can't say anything critical. And we would all be like, just listen. Because, you know, we would even tell them, look, you can't, you can't rah-rah the team when they're four and twelve. No one will take you seriously. But I have found some of that to be interesting.

That's really a small group. Not to mention the fact, as we've discussed many times. D.C. is hardly a difficult media market. It's just not even in the top 10 of really difficult media bases. Here's the issue. It's a difficult media time for everybody, no matter where you are. So if somebody comes to D.C. from someplace they were, had been five, six, seven, eight years ago, and all of a sudden it seems intense.

They think, wow. DC's in the tense market. No, the media landscape has changed dramatically in the last five years. It's intense everywhere right now. Yeah. Because of social media. I mean, the landscape has changed dramatically. And the sports media in this town has always been consumed with the football team. There's no doubt because that's been where the majority of sports fans have,

wanted to spend their time in terms of discussing the football team. And because they've been bad, people have been doing their jobs. I think if the Redskins had been really good over the last 20 years, there would have been an annoyance with how over-the-top praising we were. Can you imagine if we had been doing our show during the Gibbs years? I would have been insufferable to deal with. I mean, it would have been impossible. to listen to you because you would have been nitpicking things that people would have responded

to you with. They went 14 and two, Tommy. They went 14 and two. No, they had Bobby Bethleh and Charlie Cash to me then. I wouldn't have been nitpicking. And speaking, just to remind everybody that there's a baseball team in town, too, if the learners don't step up soon and give Mike Rizzo the contract that he deserves before his contract runs out at the end of October, I'll have plenty to write about, no matter who owns the Redskins and how good they are. Yeah. Let's talk about Larry Michael here in a moment after I tell you about Hawthorne. Hawthorne with an e.co, not dot com. If smelling good is important to you, because Hawthorne smells really good. And getting Hawthorne cologne is so easy. First of all, you go to hawthorne.

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but I don't know that for sure, was the sudden retirement of Larry Michael, 16 years the play-by-play voice, an employee of the team, a front office executive on the team, and he, retired yesterday. It was shocking. Shocking. Now, I've known Larry for a long time. You've probably known him longer than I have. Yeah, I mean, I go back to Larry when he's been, he did boxing for years. I go back with Larry a long time. Right. So, um, the, and I've known Larry for 16 years, 16, 17 years now that I've been in the business. Um, I think when Ron Rivera came in to the organization and got a lot of power, I think everything was potentially in play with anybody out there.

But still, Larry leaving without a press statement, without a comment from the team, was shocking and also awkward, wouldn't you say? Oh, absolutely. This is what I think opened the door for, I think it warranted a response. If you're, I think this was something that, you know, Larry leaving like this warranted the response that I put out there. That, you know, this is a shoe dropping. I don't think this is an isolated thing. I think, oh, I think we're going to find out everything's connected at some point.

From the name change to the minority investors to all of it, it's all going to be a connected-the-dot situation. and at some point it went all it said and done. So, yes, this was stunning news. And, you know, I'm not a big fan of Larry, but I know how much Larry liked being the voice of the Redskins. Before we get more in depth about Larry, Alex Santos, Richard Mann, and Larry Michael does not equal bombshell story.

So this isn't like these three people have been dismissed from the organization Larry technically retired. And that's it. We wouldn't be hearing about this bombshell of a story, no offense to Larry, but it just wouldn't rise to the level of bombshell. You know, there's a lot more to this, is my guess. I would certainly guess that. Yeah, so a couple of things about Larry. I was very surprised about this. You know, I've had many conversations with Larry over the years. You have as well, you know, when Brian Lafamina came into the conversation, you know, Mr. Rent Don't Buy, I think there was some concern with a lot of people in the organization

about what Brian might do. And he might, you know, he might decide to make changes on the broadcast team. Well, Brian wasn't around long enough to make that happen. No, he wasn't. Not even a full season. Yeah, Ron Rivera comes into the organization. And I think Ron Rivera's got responsibilities he never thought of having. And just as an aside, can you imagine the conversations he and his wife have had over the last month?

Like, why didn't we just wait and take the giant job? That would have been a lot easier. But, you know, I think Ron Rivera might be, you know, involved in looking at, you know, the broadcast side and the PR side. It wouldn't surprise me at all. But I was surprised yesterday. I've known Larry forever. Larry and I had a professional relationship. I would never, Larry and I, it's not like we were ever good friends by any stretch of the imagination. We had a professional relationship because I was the host of the pregame show for years, for 13 years,

and Larry called the games. And so Larry was a part of my pregame show every Sunday. And Larry was a part of almost Tommy, remember, every Monday morning quarterback show, the following morning. You know, there was a Larry sponsored segment. And professionally on the air, you know, Larry was obviously the biggest homer in town. And you were never going to get Larry to be critical. But it was always a professional relationship. I also, and I always said this about people who criticized Larry as a play-by-play guy. I actually thought he was pretty good as a play-by-play guy.

And the thing about Larry, he had an incredible challenge as a play-by-play person. He had essentially a four-man booth. I mean, Docs on the sidelines. But in recent years, you know, he had Sonny and Kooley. And before that, it was Sonny and Sam. Let me just tell you as a person that's done limited, limited play-by-play. It's hard enough when it's just the two of you. If you got to work an additional two people into the broadcast, that is really a skill.

And I thought he did that well. And I was telling CJ, too, I also thought he always got the big calls. accurate. The Sean Taylor pickup of the Troy Vincent blocked field goal in that cowboy game. Obviously his all-time call, which was the RG3 electrifying 76-yard touchdown run. But you've been in that booth, you know, on game days or game nights.

I spent many games in that booth. Many times when I did that pre-game show, if I didn't turn around and go home, I would go right to the booth. and Larry was always very welcoming. And I was always concerned. Like I remember every single year, I would say, look, if I'm there and I come up,

if you don't want me in there and it's a distraction, tell me I totally get it. And he always said, absolutely not. You're totally welcome in the booth. And, you know, you've been in that booth. That booth was a three-ring circus. I mean, they must have auctioned off every week visits for fans to come in,

During the games, you know, it would be like, during the games, you'd see Larry and Sunny and Cooley, or Larry Sonny and Sam in the front row. And then no less than two or three feet behind him was like a crowd of people, you know, sitting there watching. That's not what most radio booths are like. And he always was very good with the fans in particular. I think he was always very kind with the fans and was always surprised at how he was able to work in that environment on many Sundays and Monday nights and Thursday nights. Not to mention, he called basically the worst stretch of the franchise's history.

Didn't have a lot of big games to call over the years, that's for sure. So if he's this great guy, if he's a great broadcaster, great friend of the fan, Why is he gone? Well, first of all, you just put words into my mouth that I didn't speak. I think you go back and listen to what you said. I think that covers it. No, it doesn't. It doesn't cover it.

I've known Larry for a long time. You've known Larry for a long time. Like a lot of people, he has their pros and there are cons. The radio station had a very antagonistic relationship with the team. I'll leave it at that. As a play-by-play guy, I never thought Larry was terrible. A lot of fans did. He followed Frank Herzog. Frank Herzog was a legend. I know a little bit about play-by-play. I know the challenges he had, and I thought he was pretty good at what he did. So that's really what we were talking about. The radio station over a long period of time had a very, as you know, antagonistic, difficult relationship with the team, even though we were not only the flagship station of the team, we were owned in part by the team owner. And yet there weren't many benefits.

Let's just say that we got, we didn't benefit necessarily from that relationship, as we should have, could have, which in turn would have more likely than not benefited them. But part of that, just to be candid, was their PR people, and I think Larry, to a certain degree, always viewed us as show hosts on that station as people who weren't, you know, favorable towards the team,

who were too critical of the team. And the irony of all of it was at that station, as you know, with the exception of you and Tony, everybody else was either a former player or a born and raised Washingtonian who was a big fan. Yeah, you're right. and wanted them to win. Yes. So there. What else?

No, I got, look, I'll just say not a big fan of the guy. I know you're not. I know you're not. All right. Enough about that. We've got a couple of other things to do. But real quickly, Roman.com. If you're struggling with erectile dysfunction,

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Use my promo code Sheehan for, a free online visit and free two-day shipping. All right, so certainly all of this could be dated by the time people listen to it, but as you said, time stands still when we do this podcast together. What are the predictions here about what we're going to get between now and the end of the day or tomorrow morning? Let me ask you, what would be the opportune time to release this story? Does it matter anymore? Is there a good time? I've noticed that a lot of their stories sometimes that are big, you know, come out in that 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. time frame? Well, I mean, you save your big in the old days. Again, I mean, I'm not as hands on as I used to be, but you saved your big stories for the Sunday paper,

assuming that people would read more on Sundays than any other day. And you had to be a lot of more room usually on Sunday to devote to a lengthy piece. I mean, I don't know if that's the case anymore. I suspect that what's going on is lawyers are probably checking every single line in this story, and they're having a battle about everyone. You know, because, like, I remember, I mean, you know, Dan Snyder through the city paper because of a stupid cartoon. You know?

Yeah. So I suspect this is vetting the story so that they feel that they can defend themselves if they have to. All right. My prediction on this is that the story will finally be out by late tonight tomorrow morning. and the story will disappoint as far as Snyder goes. That's my prediction based on nothing other than the Josina Anderson lawyer stuff. I just have a feeling that the post may, this is based on nothing, may have to back off some of its assertions about directly implicating Snyder in some of this stuff.

That may be the case. But that's possible, certainly. But like I said earlier in the show, there will be more news organizations that will be pursuing this story. That's fine. I'm predicting about what will happen between now and tomorrow. I think we will finally get the story and we'll read it tonight, probably online. And it'll be in your newspapers tomorrow, for those of you that still read a newspaper. I still have a newspaper right in front of me.

and it will be, you know, a blockbuster in terms of some of the culture stuff that was going on, and it could include things that are, you know, untoward from a sexual standpoint, from a booze standpoint. I'm just guessing here. And it also could be, oh, by the way, I don't know if you saw this, but here were the reasons that Alex Santos Lerner, Michael and Richard Mann are leaving the organization. I doubt that that's it. I think it's going to be a lot more than that. But what do I know? Nothing. I'm just as much anticipating it as all of you. Yes. Let me leave you with a text I received from Neil and Rockville, our legal advisor earlier, who texted, my only fear is the post has dug up and tracked down the true story of you, Doc, and Chuck in New Orleans.

lying about playing for Notre Dame. No, that was Indianapolis. Oh. No, New Orleans, like Chuck said, could have been a 30 for 30. How, why didn't I go to that Super Bowl? Oh, they were only sending us one at a time. And I had weasled my way into it. One thing, I went to Indianapolis the year before because you didn't want to go to Indianapolis.

That is true. I did want to go to. Oh, I didn't go to New Orleans because I didn't go to New Orleans because I, decided that I would choose New York over New Orleans when they decided they were only sending one at the time. Yeah. I think you went to New Orleans in Indianapolis and then I went to New York and San Francisco back to back.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah. And we both were in Miami and Dallas. We were both in Miami and Dallas and we were in Vegas. We'll never forget Dallas. We'll never forget Dallas. We were in Miami and Vegas a couple of times together.

Oh, for fight, yeah. For fight. I mean, the Super Bowl. Super Bowl, our first one we did together was South Florida, and then we did Dallas and the ice storm, and then we started going separate. Well, I'll never forget Dallas because I was working as a talk show host and a chauffeur that week. Yes, you were. Yes, you were.

You didn't want me to hurt myself, did you? No, I didn't. But if I recall, that's where. So I'm looking at the Super Bowls, yes, that my name. 2010, February 2010 was our first Super Bowl together because I think we were doing the show the year before. And I didn't go to Tampa. No one went that year. No one went.

Yeah. And then we went to Miami. We went to Dallas. You went to Indy. You went to New Orleans. And then I did New York, Arizona, and San Francisco all in a row. Yeah. Because the Arizona Super Bowl was the one that they had us booked in basically a motel where there were crack deals going on in the front of the motel.

And I said, no, that's not where we're staying. We did the same thing in San Francisco. I wish you would have said that in Dallas because the one thing I remember about Dallas is the Monday night before the ice storm hit sitting in the lobby of the hotel. with the cop that the Dallas police had stationed at the motel all night on a regular base. It was right off that interstate. But I'll never forget. I know people couldn't care less, but so what. I'll never forget that Monday night.

It was the first night we were there, and in the middle of the night, you just heard the sleet pellets pounding. off the hotel and off the door. And the following morning, you open the door, and it was an ice rink everywhere. And it never went away the rest of the week. The temperature stayed at basically 22 degrees the entire week, and they don't have snow removal or ice removal equipment in Dallas. It was a nightmare to get around.

It was. It was horrible. The New York Super Bowl was, of all of them during that stretch. I think the New York Super Bowl was the most fun. It was quite a week, Tommy. Quite a week. You know, that might be the next post investigative report.

All right. We're done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow. Wait a minute. Adam Schefter just tweeted, The Washington Post is preparing a story about its NFL team that is expected to highlight the culture that is existed. Within the past week, front office members, Richard Mann

III, and Alex Santos, as well as play-by-play voice, Larry Michael, all left the organization. Washington's NFL team has hired D.C. attorney Beth Wilkinson to review the organization's protocols per league sources. While Wilkinson is expected to conduct a deep dive into the organizations past culture, team officials are highly upset and frustrated about speculations run am up. There you go. Look, that's Schaefter. This is a real report here, people.

Yes. This is a real report. The team has hired their own lawyer to review organization protocols. Wilkinson. Wilkinson. I'm looking to see what law firm she's with. A female, not a male. Right.

That's important to note. I'm trying to see if she's done any other big recent cases. Wilkins. She represented Hillary Clinton in the email controversy. She's representing Emmett Sullivan, the federal judge in the Michael Flynn case. So she's a high-profile attorney. She's married to David Gregory. Oh, okay.

Formally of NBC News. I don't even know where David Gregory works right now. I don't know. So that's the latest. The team has hired a lawyer to look into how horrific they've been. Yeah. But I do think that last line from Schefter, while Wilkinson's expected to conduct a deep dive into the organization's past culture, team officials are highly upset and frustrated about speculation running amok.

And I would bet that that speculation has to do with things like Jeffrey Epstein and some of these other rumors that have been running rampant all over the place. That would be my guess. Well, you know something? if your behavior is bad, this goes through, this goes for all walks of life. If you're a bad guy, people believe the worst. They have been far from exemplary in their behavior over the years, as we know, and as most fans know.

People would believe the worst. Yeah, they do. All right, so it took all show to get to some news from somebody other than, you know, whatever that fake internet site was that had the sex trafficking story. I have a feeling that that one was probably not true. Probably not. But we'll see. All right.

Now that Schefters wait in, I bet you we do get that story by tomorrow morning. Probably. Have you ever in a three-day period seen more discussion about a topic that nobody knows anything about than this one. I know we talked about it earlier, but as we've been sitting here and I just checked my phone, I have 17 text messages. All dealing with this topic. And I venture to gain two weeks from now, we'll be saying the same thing. And looking back two weeks before and thinking those were the good old day. I mean, the name, look what happened to the story about the name. It's not even a story. It's not even a story. It's not even.

It's not even a story. It's crazy. All right. Have a good day. Everybody out there, enjoy the day. I will be here tomorrow. J.P. Finley will be my guest on the show tomorrow. All right. Hopefully we'll have a lot more to discuss tomorrow. Take care.