The Kevin Sheehan Show - Lillard's Show + Burgundy Blog

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

Kevin opened the show with his thoughts on Damian Lillard's record-setting playoff performance last night in Portland's 147-140 2OT loss to Denver. He talked about how important tonight was for Bradley Beal as the Wizards face Philly in Game 5. Then, "Burgundy Blog" was Kevin's guest. They discussed all things Washington Football team including the current state of the franchise, where it's headed, the upcoming season and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Lillard wanted to clear everything out. He's got Porter Jr. on him. Five left in the game.

Lillard fading away the three. He got it. Damien Lillard ties it up. Lillard trying to play the two-man game with Mello, trying to turn the corner. Yokin's defense. Lillard gets it back from Mello. A deep three from Lillard.

Finds the bottom of the web. Still down two possessions. Lillard trying to shake Rivers, a step back triple. Oh, Damien Lillard! And the Blazers have cut it to two. The miss for Morris. The Blazers have the ball. Down three.

Lillard with the rock in hand. Harrison came in for this reason alone to defend Lillard. Lillard fading away. The three. Lillard ties it up again. I think it's really become a trend to totally exaggerate something in the immediate aftermath of watching it when it comes to sports in particular, but I think that probably goes further than just sports.

I think people like to think, I witnessed it, I watched it, I stayed up and saw it. It's the greatest whatever that I've ever seen. So I'm not going to call Damien Lillard's performance last night the greatest playoff performance in NBA history, but it was memorable. And I did stay up to watch it, and it was thrilling. you did not have to be a basketball fan or an NBA fan to enjoy what Damien Lillard did last night. He provided one of, certainly in recent years, one of the more memorable performances of the NBA playoffs. We have a very interesting show today.

We're going to talk a little bit about basketball here to start, including the Wizards game tonight. They've got a game five tonight in Philadelphia. Joel Embed is listed as doubtful for that. game. I am going to ask for something from a specific player if Embed doesn't play that, to me, he's got to deliver on. And we'll get to that in a few minutes. And then a mystery man, Burgundy blog. Many of you follow Burgundy blog on Twitter. Many of you perhaps have even listened to his podcast that he's had at times in recent years. Burgundy blog is a bit of a mystery. But for those of you that follow him on Twitter, you know that he has a sharp opinion

on the team. And he has carved out for himself, you know, sort of this piece of the community of people who have opinions and information on the team that end up being sort of a go-to for many of the fans and many people who are interested in the team. Burgundy blog is going to join us on the podcast today. I didn't mean to incent him the other day to come on the podcast by saying he was ducking me. I said that very much

tongue placed in cheek. I know he's a busy guy, but he did commit to being on the show today. So we will talk to him in a few minutes coming up. Not only about him, but about the team as well. By the way,

Chase Young, a no show at OTAs again today. So that's five straight OTA days. He's missed. If Ron Rivera weighs in on anything, we will discuss that on tomorrow's show because we're recording it before he speaks to the media today, which he is supposed to do. I want to remind everybody to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't. It doesn't cost you a thing. It helps us.

Also, if you haven't rated or reviewed the podcast, especially on Apple, that helps us a lot as well. It takes you two seconds to review it. give us five stars, please, and to rate it and to review it, if you can write one or two sentences about how much you like the show, that helps us as well. By the way, people have asked me, how's the podcast doing? It's doing well.

It's doing very well. It's always done well. And I appreciate all of the support and all of you that listen to it. You know, you can tell by the advertising, which, look, I put a limit on the number of ads that we're going to do on this show. We have a longer podcast than most have. And so in the podcast world, you have something called a pre-roll, which is the ad that ran before the show. And then you have what's called mid-rolls and post-rolls.

And I put a limit on the amount of advertising that we would have. But that limit is a little bit higher than some shows, but a lot of shows are only 30 minutes long or 40 minutes long. Some of you have suggested that you'd prefer a 45-minute show. Really, every day's different, and I watch the clock, but at the same time when we're involved in conversations with each other or with Tommy or with Kooley or with another guest, I just try to have the best sense of cutting it off when there's nothing left. Anyway, we've got a guest today in Burgundy Blog. I'm looking forward to that.

And again, rate us and review us. It really does help a lot. I want to start with last night, and then we'll talk about the Wizards. So Damien Lillard last night scored 55 points in a playoff game. He had 10 assists in a playoff game. He had 12 3-pointers in a playoff game. He set the NBA record becoming the first player in NBA history to have 12-3-pointers in an NBA playoff game. That eclips the mark set by Clay Thompson in 2016 when he had 11 in a game against Oklahoma City. Terry Stotz, the NBA Portland Trailblazers coach, said it was the best playoff performance he's ever seen.

And it was 12 of 17. It wasn't 12 of 30. It wasn't 12 of 24. He actually scored 55 points on 17 made field goals. 24 shot attempts, which is remarkable. He set the NBA record for the most points and assists and threes in combination in an NBA playoff game. But what was really amazing is how he did it and when he did it. This was a great basketball game that I just happened to have tuned into because I've mentioned that I love the NBA playoffs. And I think the NBA playoffs so far this year have been great. The Nets game,

was a blowout. They blew out and they ended the Celtics season. By the way, just as a quick aside, I think the Nets are going to win the title. I don't want them to win the title. I just don't see how anybody beats those three players and four out of seven. And it's not just those three players. They've got great compliments as well on that team. I think Brooklyn's going to win the title. The Lakers were getting blown out early by the sons. LeBron, by the way, looks old. I think he's on the downside, the beginning of the downside of his career. And Anthony Davis is soft, period. And If he doesn't play in game six, Barkley last night referred to him as street clothes.

Shack has been torching him. You've got to play in these games. Chris Paul's playing with his shoulder that he can barely lift, and he's playing in these games. I don't know. Look, if he ends up with a serious surgery, I retract everything I just said. But my sense of it is that Anthony Davis is soft,

and the Lakers are going to go out in this series to Phoenix. and LeBron can't carry a team like he used to be able to carry a team. Anyway, that led to me paying attention to Portland and Denver, which was a terrific game in the second half. It was back and forth. Denver, by the way, had a 22.1st half lead blew it. Portland came back, had a big lead. Then Denver took the lead again. At the end of regulation, down three, Damien Lillard hit a 28-foot step-back three to tie it with about three and a half second.

left. And that was the beginning of a stretch that was truly remarkable. The game goes to the first overtime, and Denver is dominating the overtime period. And with just two minutes to go in the first overtime, Denver's got a nine-point lead. And then Damien Lillard goes off. He's got a driving shot to the rim. He gets fouled. Three-point play. It's 132 to 126. Yokic, who was horrific for Denver all night, makes a shot to push the lead back to eight with a minute 50 to go. On the other end, Lillard makes a 31-foot three-pointer. It's 134 to 129. Then Denver misses a shot. Lillard comes back and drains a 30-foot-3. It's 134 to 132. It's not over yet. It's just beginning. He has scored nine straight points to cut the gap to two.

They foul. Monty Morris makes one of two, and Lillard comes down, double-covered, the whole team hedging in his direction, and he's able to drill a 28-foot three-pointer with six and a half seconds to go to tie the game. He scored 12 consecutive points over the final two minutes of the game

to take a nine-point deficit and force a second overtime. The second overtime starts, and he knocks down a layup, a driving layup to give Portland the lead, and then banks in a 33-foot three-point shot to give him a 140 to 138 lead with three and a half minutes to go in the second overtime. He has scored 17 consecutive points after tying the game at the end of regulation with a from that two and a half to 12 mark of the second overtime through the first two minutes of the second overtime,

from the last 212 of the first overtime into the first two minutes of the second overtime. So roughly a four-minute period, he scores 17 consecutive points. And then he finally misses a shot after making eight in a row. And he misses a 35. foot three-pointer that goes halfway down and comes back out in a 140 to 140 game. It was such an electrifying stretch of individual play with the game on the line, with his team down nine, scoring 17 consecutive points.

I mean, these weren't just heat checks. These were clutch shots. This wasn't a regular season game where a guy gets it going. Every possession, he had to make every single one of them. And then he finally misses one with three minutes to go in the second overtime. And then he never takes another shot the rest of the way. Denver scores the final seven points of overtime. Portland doesn't score again, and they lose the game in double overtime, 147 to 140.

A classic. It was a game for the ages. It was a performance for the ages. I'm not going to put it up there with the greatest thing I've ever seen. Not yet. It's memorable. This is one of those games. my son came in to my room at the end of regulation. He was watching it in another room, and we sat there and watched it together at one in the morning or whatever time it was, with each three that he buried, yelling, waking my wife

who woke up and said, what in God's name are you guys doing? This is stupid. And then we sat there and watched him go silent over the final three minutes of the second overtime. Now, he said that he was trying to make the right plays, that the defense was crowding, him and he made the right plays in that he made passes to people who were open as he was being double-teamed and his teammates didn't deliver. C.J. McCollum, their second best player, was incredibly disappointing with the game on the line. But that's not good enough. Lillard was making

shots after being double-teamed during that entire stretch. He had missed his first shot. He wasn't tired. He hadn't missed three or four in a row. He had missed one in a row from 32 feet. He had taken those shots that he made in the first overtime and early in the second overtime, double-teamed, crowded, and he had just been patient, and he had figured it out. And he didn't try to figure it out for the final three minutes of the second overtime. I was dumbfounded. I can't believe even here this morning that I watched what I watched and then with the game on the line with three minutes to go in the second overtime after he had single-handedly carried his team into this position that he went silent the rest of the way and didn't take one shot the rest of the way.

Did he make some good passes to open players who miss shots? Absolutely. Did his teammates absolutely disappoint him and fail him and what he had provided and given them the opportunity for, they did. I just don't know why he trusted in them so much. Maybe you trust in them for a possession or two. But when they miss a dunk and they miss a wide open three, it's time to go back to doing what you were doing before, which was so incredibly electrifying and thrilling to watch, to watch him be patient, to watch him, you know, shrug off the double team, to get to a spot where he could hit a step back, long range three. He was on fire. He should have ended with 60 plus in a game that either continued or they lost by a point or won by a point.

He went silent down the stretch. I don't understand it. It really was, for those of you that don't care, but are sports fans, it's worth going and watching the highlights of what he did last night. It was really, really spectacular. The Wizards play tonight. and Joelle Embed is doubtful. Now, my producer, Brendan, on the radio show this morning, said that Embedd has been listed as doubtful

and is on a lot of injury reports and has been during the regular season. And he remembered at least twice that he was listed as doubtful and he played and in one of those games played very well. If he doesn't play tonight, then Bradley Beale needs to force game six by himself. I'm not saying without help. I mean, you know, Westbrook's questionable, but he'll play. I mean, he's a warrior. He'll be out there. Um, Hachamur has got to have another really good game. Uh, they've got to get good performances from the three centers. Um, it'd be

really nice if they continue to get good performances from guys like Ish Smith. Netto's got to step up and knock down some threes off the doubles. No Bertons. He's out four to six weeks. But tonight, to me, is Bradley Beal's night. If Joel Embed plays, the series is over. They're not, they're nowhere near good enough. No matter what Beal does, they're not good enough to beat the 76ers if Joel M. Bede is healthy and plays. If he isn't healthy in plays, or if he doesn't play at all, Bradley Beale has to have the game. He hasn't had it in this postseason yet. He's had some really good scoring games against a very good defensive team. It had a really good half. in game two where he had 24, but they got blown out.

You know, he has not played consistent defensively. He's looked at times not totally invested defensively. He's been a turnover machine at times, including in the game the other night where he had seven, could have had nine or ten. He has not shot the three well at all. He's five of 25 in this series. He was three for his first 20 in the first three games. this is tonight for me a game in which Bradley Beale, who I think deserves to be on the third team all NBA team this year,

I think he's become an elite score in the league. But he's got to take the next step tonight. He's got to go out like all of the great players do in the game. If he wants to be considered one of those, which he isn't right now, he's not a top 10 player in the league. But if he wants to make his way in that direction, tonight's a night that he goes out and he scores four, 40 plus, and his turnovers are three or less, and he makes three to five, three-pointers. He's five for 11 from behind the arc, not one for eight. He shoots in the 45% plus.

He defends his ass off, has a couple of block shots, a couple of steals, you know, has several assists when the doubles come, but he doesn't let his team lose. You know, Beal has had some of those games in the postseason. He's had some big-time games. He's the one in Game 7 against Boston a few years ago that had the big game. Went for 39, I think, in that game, when Wall went silent. In Game 6, the one where Wall had the three-pointer to beat Boston to force Game 7, Beal was incredible in that game. I forget the exact point total, but it was North Carolina.

of 30. The 38 or 39 point game 7, he was the reason they had a chance to win that game, even though they didn't win it. He's done it before in the postseason as a much younger player and a player that was not nearly as, you know, not nearly the lofty stature that he has now as one of the game's elite scores. Tonight is a beale game for them. If Embedd doesn't play, Bradley Beal's got to force game six. He can't go, you know, one for nine from behind the arc, have seven turnovers, defend occasionally, end up with 30 points, but not do enough to win the game against a bunch of players that are just okay and aren't at his level.

Embed's the best player in this series. Simmons might be the second best player in this series, but Beal tonight should be the best player in the game if Embed's not in it. My prediction on this game is that if Embedd doesn't play, Beale has a big game and the Wizards win and Force Game 6. If Embed does play, the Sixers win

big if he's healthy. When we come back, Burgundy Blog will be our guest right after these words from our sponsors. Well, this is actually going to be a pleasure for me and actually very interesting for me because Burgundy blog, Brent from Burgundy blog, and that's basically all we know with respect to his name, has been one of these people that I have communicated with. We've communicated

with each other for several years, right? At least three or four years by message, by direct message. This is my very first conversation with you, which we just determined before we started to record this segment of the podcast. But Burgundy blog, for those of you who don't know, has become, you know, one of the noted opinion makers, voices on the Washington football team. You can follow him at Burgundy Blog on Twitter. He's had a podcast in the past. And so what I want to do with you is I actually want to split this up into two portions. I want to find out a little bit more about you because I think some fans, maybe they do. Maybe they do. maybe they don't, but I've always found you to be somewhat mysterious, and you laughed at that

the other day when I said it on the air. And then I think we can get into the team a little bit, and by the way, the latest development in terms of OTAs today is Chase Young's not there again. So that will be one of the things we'll get into, as well as many other things related to the team. But I want to just start by asking you, who the hell are you? Well, good morning, Kevin. Thank you for having me on your show. Long time, first time. I've asked you. I've asked you before. This isn't the first time I've asked you. And I know you have a very busy real life. And I think, you know, and I totally, I totally get that. But I'm glad that you were finally able to do the show. So who are you? Tell everybody who you are. I'm just a guy. I'm a fan, long time fan since I was a kid of the Redskins now Washington football team. And, you know, somewhere along the line, I just got into it enough that I felt like I wanted to write about it initially. as like a blog. You know, Burgundy blog was a website. In fact, a Tumblr before anything else.

And I always, you know, by the time I got into early adulthood, I was just following really, really closely. I felt like I knew I was pretty up to speed on goings on with the team and had some longitudinal reference. And, you know, wanted to have conversations about the Redskins with with like-minded fans and built up my blog a little, built up a Twitter, which has some following now and then did a podcast for a few years and maybe someday that'll come back. But I'm just a guy.

I'm 40 years old. I'm a 40-year-old dad of three kids, have a busy professional life. And, you know, in fact, my family is, as I'm sure can relate to, fairly close to all-consuming. So I don't have a ton of time for hobbies, but Washington football is one of my main ones.

It's just sort of a passion slash fascination. So I like to talk about it and tweet about them. Where do you live? Central Virginia. Oh, you live in Central Virginia. Okay. Yeah, I was, I grew up. I finished high school in Northern Virginia in Loudon.

And then went to UVA and did some training there. And then in North Carolina. And now I live back in the middle of Virginia. All right. And you don't have to answer this question. but for whatever reason over the years, I've surmised that you're a doctor. Yeah, that's correct. I'm a doctor.

I don't know. There must have been just a series of clues in various correspondence with you over the years that led me to believe that. By the way, how is your family with your hobby? Do your family and close friends know who you are and know what your hobby is? So all seriousness, only a few of, I mean, my closest friends all know that I do it and they kind of joke about it. my sort of second level friends and peripheral acquaintances, none of them know. In fact, I go to some length to hide from them that I have this alter ego. And then, you know, professionally, everybody's oblivious.

So professionally everybody's oblivious. And I think you want to keep it that way. And I understand that to a certain degree. Although, whatever. I mean, like we have, you know, like Neil and Rockville is an attorney at the Montgomery County Courthouse. You know, he calls into these shows all day long. And I'm always like, Neil, do you think that's really in your best? interest. You know, Cowboy Clay, who's been a big fan of all the shows on the station over the years,

he's got a very successful financial services business. And there he is in the middle of the day. Instead of watching people's money, he's calling into radio shows. So I do sort of understand that. But you did say that some of your friends do know what your hobby is, and they sort of laugh or scoff at it. Why do you think that is? I mean, not so much scoff. Do you have eyebrow friends? I wouldn't say it's looked out upon. You know, I think it's kind of a novelty for some. You know, and then a few of my friends actually follow me on Twitter,

but it's a little awkward to have, you know, like a real life relationship with somebody, especially a close one. And then, you know, the person that I am on Burgundy blog, it's not, it's not fake or disingenuous. But it's also not exactly like me. I mean, at times I kind of play a character. and, you know, depending on my mood, you know, what you read in my tweets isn't necessarily how I am in real life. And so it's sometimes hard, I think, for people to reconcile, which I think is why I just kind of want them to be separate identities. Does your wife know that you have this alter ego?

Yeah, she does. And, I mean, she only cares about it when I'm on, when I'm so glued to the phone, you know, during the draft and free agency that it's intrusive, you know. Yeah. Mostly she considers it a nuisance. And she's certainly not a huge football fan, but I really only, you know, clue her in on the biggest of news. Have you been able to turn this hobby into a revenue generating hobby? Because that's what my wife wanted to know right from the beginning, because this was not my first career. It was very much a second professional career. And all my wife wanted to know is, well, is there a revenue, is generating revenue through this thing that you love to do a possibility? So have you been able to generate revenue from it? So a couple times over the course of actually now 11 years, because I started Burgney blog in 2010. I mean, there have been a few brief periods where I made like a couple bucks for doing an ad on a podcast, but never more than like literally a few bucks. And that was never my intention.

And I don't know. I mean, I suppose there have been some opportunities for, you know, affiliations where I've kind of thought about it. But I also, like I'm very fiercely protective of being able to say, only exactly what I want and what I think. And then if I should ever bring the podcast back, I really don't want it to be overcome with ads. And so, and I just don't, you know, I'd rather it just be my hobby, I think,

than feel compelled to comply with any rules. So I don't know, maybe at some point there will be another, you know, little, little sponsorship or something. But it's certainly not a primary goal. So I, you know, having been sort of doing this now for, 17 years, 18 years actually. You know, I sort of understand what this football team means and the passionate fan base that it has and the opportunities that it creates if you can sort of carve out a niche as a voice or an opinion maker on the team. And I would ask you as somebody who, you know, you have not worked in media before, right?

Correct. Have you ever worked for a team? No. Okay. So why do you think in a very crowded, it is a crowded thing, you know, when it comes to teams that have large passionate fan bases, no matter how much this one's dwindled, it's still very large. And by the way, it's a national fan base. I mean, one of the things, you know, any of us that have done podcasts have learned, and we learned it from radio, is that, you know, more fans of this team live outside the DMV than live in it. How have you, without a larger platform, been able to carve out what you've been able to carve out?

Well, I would say, first of all, you might be overstating my influence by a touch. But, you know, I think the main recipe was that I got onto Twitter, like I said, in 2010. I mean, it was still sparsely populated at the time in the sports talk and opinion and commenting universe relatively. So it's been a decade, literally, of me, you know, building, you know, people telling a friend or two that, hey, you should follow this random guy, you know, so that's a huge part of it. It's just time. But, you know, I don't know. I think I consider myself fairly able to formulate a cogent thought. And I think sometimes my style of describing the team, it just resonates. So there's, there's, you know, something to that probably. And but, you know, but, you know, know, also you may or may not be aware that there is a sizable online community that is not friendly to Burgundy blog. I've made a few enemies along the way by having a fairly, fairly low tolerance for, you know, basically wasting of my time or profanity or, you know, disrespectfulness. So I don't know. I've just tried to be myself in a way. I mean, I know that

contradicts what I said earlier, but basically say what I think, not try to, not try to just always agree, not be constantly hot taking, but also, you know, I literally, I have nothing, and especially my anonymity helps protect this ability, but I can just literally say whatever I want. And unlike, you know, you guys and people who are close to the team and potentially interviewing players and trying, rightfully so hard to get access, I have no responsibility really to be kind in my, just, you know, observations. And, you know, I try to try to be generally like a nice guy about things, but I can say what I think. And that helps a lot.

I don't have to pussyfoot around controversial topics. And I think fans like to be able to hear that because there are things that that you guys in the real professional media probably won't want to say at times and can't, but I can. We're talking to Brent from Burgundy blog on the podcast today. See, I think, I mean, I can only speak to how I became. aware of you. I think you've broken stories in the past. And for some of us, that's not really our job, even though we do it every once in a while, but you didn't have that platform of just talking about the team. And I have this sense that my first sort of introduction to following you on Twitter, however many years ago that was, and then sort of the, you know, the private messaging

relationship that we've had over several years came from you breaking stories. And in Not necessarily in a definitive way, but in sort of the way you did it last week with the Jay-Z thing, which we'll get to here in a moment. But you have broken stories over the years, which has always told me that you've had some pretty good sources. Yeah, I mean, you know, probably no more than once a year or so. I catch a hold of a piece of information that's useful and gets some traction. And yeah, so like when Jay Gruden was hired, I knew about that a couple of. of days actually in advance because literally somebody who follows me on Twitter was the friend of Jay's son's youth basketball coach, you know, so it was just out there. And like many of the

things I've had have been through previously complete strangers who follow me and just tip me off to stuff. And so then, you know, obviously that could be dangerous, but you use some intuition and reason and some thorough vetting of somebody's story. And occasionally something just changed. checks out. And if I feel about 98% sure I'm hearing something true and new, then I can go with that. And I've had that, you know, one of the other things was that I was one of the first people I think to know or be clued into the fact that Alex Smith's rehab was not going well at all. And then, you know, I had something about that and it kind of blew up. And I think Rappaport, Rappaport was forced to begrudgingly cite me, in fact. So I have a close contact who,

is an NFL agent, which gets me into some stuff. I've had some contract things. So, but, you know, it's, it's just every now and again, and I don't have like a single, you know, I don't have a mole in the organization, but when, when you have, you know, enough people who, you know, check in on what you're saying and who kind of buy into this sort of community aspect and just want to share, I mean, a lot of people, like, the guy who had the JZ thing was like, I need you not to say who I am, but here's what I know, and here's how you can know that I know it. And, um, You know, there it is. Then I just put it out there and sometimes it blows up. All right. You know, one of the things, and I mentioned this to you before, just to confirm that my memory of it was correct, is that you are, you're a fan, you're a lifelong fan. Like I am, I'm a little bit older than you, but I'm a lifelong fan as well.

And so being able to talk about it and the, in the sort of platforms that I've had over the years has actually been a lot of fun. and I think you've had a lot of fun with the hobby as well. However, you checked out like a year or a year and a half ago. Like it had gotten to the point for you where you had had enough and you checked out. What drove you to that? And look, you're not employed by anybody. This isn't generating a living for you. So it's a hobby.

So everybody can decide that they don't enjoy their hobbies anymore and move on to another one. But what happened? When was that and what was it that sort of precipitated it? So I've done it twice for six months or more over the course of these 10 or 11 years. And it's because the team is maddening. I mean, for all the reasons that you and everyone listening already knows. I mean, until just recently when they've developed some semblance of professionalism, obviously, it was never, you know, my alienating me was literally, and I mean this honestly, never because they were just bad. But for so long, the Redskins and now Washington football were not just bad, but really loathsome, detestable from the top down.

And, you know, there have been a couple of times where I've decided, listen, as much as I like doing this, and even on those like those breaks or hiatuses, I never actually stopped following. I just, they were kind of like boycotts, I guess. And yeah, the most recent time I thought for a while, it might really be the end of, of, of, Burgundy blog, because I just grew to so despise not only Dan Snyder, but just this, this toxic culture that has increasingly been exposed over the last few months, you know, knowing, hearing what's out there and hearing other things about how, how bad it was with people in charge, and really almost just like hating myself for liking them, you know? And there were times where I just had to turn it off.

And so honestly, the most recent time when I was out for like, I don't know, almost a year and didn't come back until sometime during last season, the final straw, I think, was there was a period of two or three days over which first, actually I can't remember the order, but the first big post story came out about the women accusing the people there of so much misconduct. and then the name. It was like really, they were close together. The name officially got changed. And it was never, I mean, it wasn't exactly like one of these people was like, well, if they're not the Redskins, they're dead to me. But to be honest, it bothered me a lot more than I think it bothers some. And it was sort of a final straw deal or at least temporarily a final straw for me.

And so when that stuff was going on, I was so just kind of disgusted with the organization. And even though there were starting already to be reasons for hope, I mean, Rivera was on board and it was like, you know, there were some things to latch on to, but I just became so frustrated. I called it quits. But then over the course of the year, and then I've been, of course, you know, accused of bandwagoning because I kind of cracked and came back. But, you know, and it was it was towards the end when they had started to get a few wins. It certainly wasn't because suddenly I thought they were good and going to the Super Bowl. And now I wanted to be back in. I mean, I've been. through in my life 30 years of them being just putrid. So like I don't it's it wasn't bad. But they have I think you know legitimately become likable. They have so many good likable players. They've got likable staff now. There's just a lot to get behind and I I came to a point where I was no longer just like you know I could I could actually bring myself to be associated with them again. Yeah. I think um I think your reaction and the way you just described it um is that the way that a lot of fans have felt, and a lot of them have checked out, but checked back in

occasionally. I can tell you, I know for a fact that this is, you know, the biggest concern for the team. And it's a big challenge for Jason Wright, and that is how do they get back that fan? And in many cases, it was a more discerning fan, because we both know, and I've talked about this a lot over the years, there is a small percentage of the fan base that will never ever give up this team. And they'll continue to spend their money and they'll continue to spend much of their disposable income on the team and never think that the team is doing wrong. But that's a very small percentage. And then there's a percentage of people that are going to continue to go because they love doing it. They love the NFL. But what they've lost, they've lost

the more discerning fan, the one that was not just disgusted with the results, but disgusted with the behavior. And that's what they have to get back. It's always been my contention, and I think in many ways your proof of it, is that the more discerning, and I would say maybe the more, I think maybe the more intellectually oriented fan, I do think is back in with better behavior, but more importantly, winning. And we, you know, look, I'm not nearly a. passionate as I once was. I've admitted that. I'm not. And yet I'm encouraged and intrigued by the

current, you know, situation. But it sort of leads in to where I was going to go with you next. And you sort of started that conversation. And that is the overall macro right now. And that is, you know, is this the time? Is this the group? Is Ron Rivera, you know, and his group, Are they going to be the ones that change this two-deck, you know, this two-decade nightmare? Well, you know, they could. I mean, it's a good start, right? But I think more people should realize more completely that it is still at the start. I mean, it is this, I would say, is, how can we not say that Rivera is still into a degree a honeymoon period with Snyder?

Now, he's, he's, in theory, Snyder, I mean, flushed out a lot of the problems. you know, there's no longer a Vinnie, and there's no longer a Bruce, and a lot of the people that were, you know, deviance, I guess, are gone. And Rivera has a ton of credibility, and he's been to a Super Bowl. And so, yeah, there's every reason to think that it'd be. Am I, like, am I, like, weigh in? Am I really confident that he's going to bring them back to, you know, being a top team for years in a row?

I mean, not yet. I just think that's, you know, that there's, that takes a little, too much recency bias. We've been around for a long time to know that many different types of strategies from Spurrier to Gibbs have failed. And it's still, if you're, you know, being honest, I think more likely than not that this will not work. But there's enough reason to think that it could that for someone like me who's curious and like you, I mean, I emotionally, I'm much less invested. I wouldn't say passion is even still the right word. But I'm as curious as ever. I do just continue to have a fascination with the team, with with the league and the sport and how to build a

team and what it takes to build a good team. And so I'm, I'm in, you know, my head is way in. My heart is not yet all the way back in, but there's enough there for, for me to care again and watch as closely as I have been. I think it could work. I like what we've seen from Jason Wright. A lot of people don't care about the business side of the building, but I do think it matters. I think the whole thing matters. I think the whole feel and their identity and taking themselves seriously and just being grownups over there matters quite a lot. And there's a base that they can build from and it could work. But it's going to take some time.

And in a football sense, I think in the short term, on average, I mean, I hate to be a wet blanket. But I think that people, at least on Twitter, are getting a little ahead of themselves with, you know, they've turned the corner and the time is now and the window is open. I mean, I think they overshot a little bit last year. I think they could be just as good or even a touch better this year than they were last year and and and and and maybe it won't show up in the record. Um, and I think Rivera is still like aiming all resources for peaking, uh, another two or three years from now. And I think that's

smart. So, and it may not work, but, um, it could. I mean, I definitely believe that it could. Yeah, it's funny because I think, um, that I have this sense and it's more of a recent sense. And it has to do with sort of direct experience with my own boys who are teenagers, and older now and all of their friends. And I think younger people are buying into this new regime. And I would say it's way premature, as you would say, the same thing. I think right now what you have is, and what I sense is that there's a lot of excitement, but I think it's being generated by young people, which, by the way, would be a good thing for the team if they can follow through on it.

If they don't let them down the way they let us down over and over again. But my bet still would be if somebody held a gun to my head and said, you have to wager on whether or not this is the turning point. If Rivera ends up being the turning point on a total change of direction for the organization from, you know, a two-decade plus train wreck into a sustained winner, I would bet against it. Because I think that, you know, I'm not a believer in Dan Snyder. And I'm a big believer in all of these things, especially in professional sports and in business. starts at the top and they have they have they have bad at the top they have they have arrogance at the top they have not very bright at the top and they've got you know totally self uh consumed um at the top and i just don't know that that will ultimately work out however like you i'm intrigued

like i because i liked Rivera when the hire was made i thought yeah i remember you being i remember you being really really with it from the very start and uh were you i can't remember Did you like the higher or not? I was kind of lukewarm on it. I mean, just I felt like it wasn't sexy, but, you know, I guess I knew. And in hindsight, it's definitely true that sexy is probably not what they needed anyway. I was fine with it. I wasn't, you know, doing cartwheels.

And I think he's probably exceeded my expectations in his first year. Yeah, it's still very early, though. Yeah, totally. These aren't even primary returns that are coming in. Exactly. Real quickly, before we get to. more football-oriented stuff. What do you think is going on?

I had Liz Clark on the show this morning on the radio show, and I would urge everybody to listen to that interview. Liz was to, I had her on really to talk about the Naomi Osaka situation. Liz has been a long-time tennis reporter. But we ended up talking about, you know, what's going on with the Washington football team. And she relayed some stuff that I think, you know, I've shared on the podcast before and I've talked with Tommy about before that there's some legal wrangling right now. with the team trying to prevent some of the information that may be in the Wilkinson report from actually coming out.

What are you hearing and what do you think or where do you think this is going? Yeah, I don't know. I wish I had a really good nugget for you there. I knew, I mean, take this for what it's worth and many people will be skeptical. But almost two years ago, an anonymous person on Twitter, engaged me privately and told me that there was an incident, and there had been a lawsuit and a settlement. And he forecast exactly what we've heard about this thing on the airplane

coming back from the concert. And he told me who it was. And I mean, I actually know the person's name, which, of course, I would not divulge. But having heard that then and not really saying much about it, I've known, or at least I still feel confident that there is, there have been things that have happened in the past. There's information to potentially be learned by someone in Beth Wilkinson's position.

That could really, really actually be a legitimate bombshell and change the game. And I think the question is, will she find it? Will she be allowed to access it? And I don't know the answers to that. I mean, I kind of, I mean, as badly as anyone, I want Dan Snyder to no longer be the owner. I don't necessarily wish ill on the man, but. I'd love there to be a reason for him to get gone. But I don't know if it's going to come out.

I have this kind of like nagging worry that the Wilkinson report is either going to be a dud or just be kind of dismissed and that not a ton is going to come of it. But that's just a gut. Do you think that the league waiving the debt limit allowing him to buy out his minority shareholders, Fred Smith, Bob Rothman, Dwight Schar was. and was sort of an endorsement of him continuing as the owner for, you know, moving forward. I think so, too. But I do wonder. I mean, I'm no expert on those things, but that's how it struck me. I mean, I guess I could be.

But do you believe that the quid pro quo on that was to bring in new minority investors in actual minorities as investors as minority shareholders? I would have to think that as tenuous as his, you know, grip on the team was or at least appeared to be publicly, given how bad they've been and now how much controversy follows him, that, you know, that the league would have been holding some leverage against him. And to do him what looked like such a big favor in waiving it and facilitating this whole thing, you know, it sure seems like there should be something. hit for that tat. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's you got to, you got to then take on whichever minority owner we say or there has to be a certain type of person. It feels like he probably owes the league something for that to have, you know, gone as apparently smoothly as it did. But, you know, I'm not sure what. So you tweeted out last week, nothing imminent. These things take

months and sometimes break down, but I have it on good authority to Jay-Z's actively divesting assets to position himself for purchase of stake in Washington football team. So do you believe that Jay-Z is going to be a minority shareholder in the team? Yeah, I believe that, that I still believe in what I tweeted there. I mean, I believe that it's at least a high possibility or that he's trying. And I will say this for context. The person who told me that is like not a close friend or acquaintance of mine, nor of Jay-Z's, but it is a financial type person who is, you know,

associated with somebody who's involved in some of that action that I referenced. And that person told me almost two years ago also that the team that ate, I'm trying to remember how he phrased it to me at the time because frankly, I didn't believe it and I didn't go with it. But he said that the team was for sale. He said that the types of bankers who handle sales of teams have been engaged on the Redskins and things are happening. and, you know, I honestly, he thought, this person thought at the time that it meant Dan was selling.

And I, you know, that's what he was communicating to me. And I didn't believe it. And I never really said anything about it. But what he, what he knew or almost knew was that the, you know, it was, it was the Sharr group. It was the minority owners at the time. Their stuff was on the table. And that was really real and really happening. And that was not being discussed at the time when this person told me that that was moving. And then out of the blue unsolicited, this same guy last week said, hey, remember me. here's what's going on. I know that Jay-Z is angling for this. And so I'm pretty confident that that's real. I mean, I know there's stuff with how he owned the nets and then he had to get out,

or a small part of the nets, I guess, and had to get out because of Rock Nation. So I can't answer the problem with those. I think he can't have those conflicts of interest, I guess. And then I don't, I just, I don't know what to say about that, but I'm pretty sure that this is at least a very real possibility. Yeah, by the way, you just mentioned something. And I think I've mentioned this before, but for those that are wondering, the, the fractured relationship between Snyder and his minority shareholders happened long before George Floyd, you know, the George Floyd incident in Minneapolis. It happened long before the pressure to change the name. Fred Smith didn't want any part of Dan Snyder for a long period of time. The other two didn't much care for him

either. And that would be the one thing. And I've known that Rock Nation's been working with the team for a while now and discussed it over a year ago. I just can't imagine somebody of Jay-Z's stature, no matter how badly people want to get into the NFL, that he would get into a team with Dan Snyder with no voting stock. That would be the one thing. Yeah. I totally get that. You know what? Like maybe maybe I'm a little off and it's actually not an ownership thing. But But what he's trying to accomplish is becoming more, more, somehow more closely and officially affiliated. I'm not, I mean, I'm not really sure. This isn't, this isn't what I do. I mean, I'm a frigging doctor, you know, but like, I do think. I'm a sports talk host.

We can, by the way, the best part about what I do and, and to a much greater extent, what you do, we can speculate all you want. This is all about speculation. We're not going to be held to this. I mean, isn't it beautiful? But, you know, what's really interesting is just how influential Rock Nation and Jay Z's group has been, you know, with this team of the year. They were very important in the hiring of Jason Wright of the CFO. They've been involved in the new name. They've been very much involved in media relations where, you know, and I mentioned this last week, they have really, but not that Snyder needed any prodding on this end, but to steer clear of, you know, discussing anything with the post and drive. All of their information to the New York Times.

There's been a lot of that going on. Anyway, let's get to the team. And let's do that right after this word from two of our sponsors. Brent from Burgundy Blog is joining me. You can follow him if you're not already, but my sense is that many of you are at Burgundy blog on Twitter. Brent's a very opinionated but very, I think, sharp opinionated voice. on the team over the years.

And he's got information too every once in a while as well. Let's talk about the team. First of all, the immediacy of OTAs and the player that's missed now the first five of them, Chase Young. Montes Sweat was back yesterday. I don't know if he was back today. But Chase Young, according to all the reporters, has missed another OTA day. And his preference is to work out offsite. in his own way rather than being available for the team and these OTAs.

Big deal or not a big deal? So this is like such a great like blog and sports radio topic, right? Because it's it's so subjective and unquantifiable. And it's like Roershack, does this matter? And, you know, I've been chuckling about it the last few days or since last week since he initially no-showed. And I think I'm realizing that it's like, you know, depending on what type of fan you are,

there's like the totally casual fans who only like check the, check the scores. And they like have literally never even heard of, of OTA and they don't know what it means. And so they don't care at all. Then there's like the next level fan who's on Twitter. And they're like, they know what it is and they're into team building.

And they're like, okay, oh, this is a little bit of a bummer. Chase Young isn't there. That's potentially a problem. Then there's like this next lever deeper, tough guy fan that's like,

oh, I know exactly what an OTA is. And boy, I'm, I am positive. They don't matter at all. This is a nothing burger. Who cares? And then I think, Kevin, I'm sorry, I'm going next level. I think I'm an even deeper fan than that. I care a little bit.

I think it matters a little. I don't think that these OTAs would even happen if they were utterly useless. Some stuff has got to be going on there that matters. It's the, you know, the team, the players are building familiarity with each other. You know, how they, you know, I know they're not in pads. they're not crushing each other, but they're learning how guys like to communicate. They're learning what their coaches want. They're learning stupid stuff, like how to do drills.

And, you know, I think it matters a little. And so Chase Young, look, is his absence in, you know, even if he misses all this offseason stuff, is he going to be a worse player next year? Like, no way. There's no way. I'm sure he's working out hard. I'm sure he's staying in shape. I don't care one bit about his absence in terms of his own ability to like bring it in the

2021 season. But the way I look at it, I guess, is could the team overall potentially benefit from his presence? I think, yeah, easily, sure. Like, they could be building a little camaraderie and there's some bonding happening. And he could lead by example in terms of, hey, like I've been here. I know the ropes a little. This is how we do it in the wait room, et cetera. Is the team potentially any better at all from him not being there?

I don't see how. I really don't, I mean, I don't think so. So I think that his presence could help. maybe it wouldn't be a big needle mover, but it could help. His absence isn't helping anybody. And I just, I guess my takeaway is like, does it make me like dislike Chase Young now? No way. I mean, I'm still super glad that they have him.

But, you know, a big thing with his reputation lately is that he's not just a truly excellent player. Right. But he also has come to be known as this, like having preternatural leadership abilities. And he got a captaincy before he was even done with his rookie year. and he was supposed to be level 100 leadership. And I just don't see how you could still say that. I'm not going to continue to say that. He may still even be a good and a valuable leader, and he may be a viable captain,

but he's no longer an A plus leader for me anymore. If he was, he would be there, period. Yeah, I agree with you. I totally agree with you. And I think that the first point you made, as you were going through, you know, sort of the level of response, I don't know how to quantify, you know, what it means in terms of overall record or overall performance. he's such a talent. He's so great. If he didn't have the sea on his chest midway through last year,

if he didn't sort of, you know, if he wasn't a vocal leader and, you know, this agent of change and this leader behind this cultural revolution for this football team, self-annointed in many ways, but also by teammates, I think I would feel less passionate about it. I, I, Doc, to me, you know, Doc Walker's been a close friend of mine for years, and Doc's been, you know, a professional paid-for motivational speaker on leadership. And, you know, he sent me two texts last week, and I read them on the show on Friday, but he said, a captain never needs to be told how and when to lead. Essentially, you know, reflecting this, you know, voluntary versus mandatory.

No, I mean, you know, it's all mandatory when you're a leader and your coach, you know, wants you to be there and is trying to create. create this new culture. And then, you know, he said a true leader never puts himself in a position to be questioned. And he did, even if it's by a few number of people, I think, I don't think it'll impact this play at all. I think he's in outrageous talent. And I, you know, he's, he was one of my favorite players, if not my favorite player. And I have, I have a lot of optimism on what he's going to be. But he should have been there. I mean, at the very least, there's no way that if Ron Rivera was forced to answer the question, would you prefer him to be here or not be here?

His answer, if he was being truthful, wouldn't be, I don't really care one way or the other. Of course not. I would prefer him to be here. Period. Otherwise, what are we doing? Otherwise, why aren't they all at home on the beach? Nikki Javala was on with me on the radio show last week, and she said there's really definitely an understanding among the 86 people here that these aren't voluntary, that the coach is trying to change the culture.

and they understand that, you know, he can't say it, but he deems them to be mandatory, you know? So, yeah, he should be there, period. I mean, there's an elephant in the room. Like, what the hell? Like, why isn't it? I mean, it's, I don't, let's recklessly speculate. I mean, I'm not literally, I don't have an actual reason. But like, if this really ultimately all shakes out down the line and we find out that just like, yeah, he just kind of decided not to because he preferred working out at home, that's like, that's going to make no sense to me at all.

he's got to be sending a message. Is his agent telling him, hey, don't let them start to think that they own you? Like, maybe he's being told, like, you need to push back a little.

You don't want to just be, you don't want to be seen as like handleable. I don't know. But it could work both ways because, like, I mean, I think when it comes contract time and he's going to obviously destroy every defensive player's contract in history,

whenever that comes up provided health. But like, to me, I'd rather have the feather in my capital. that, hey, like, I'm, I tow the party line and I'm always here for coach, rather than, like, hey, I'm a little bit unpredictable. You don't quite own me, you know? I just don't get it. I don't know what the reason would be.

Yeah, I think, you know, to sort of put it in terms of, like, the way a lot of us conduct our own lives, like, if you're in a company and the boss says, look, I'm having this get together. We've got a couple of new people, and I want, you know, them to come over and I want, you know, a nice social gathering, you know, away from the office. it's not a direct apples to apples. If you can make it great and if you can't, it's no worries, like you're going to make it. If you're conscientious and professional, of course, you go. And let alone if you're like, you know, supposedly this legendary prodigy leader.

Yeah. It's strange that he's not there. Maybe he'll show up tomorrow and maybe he'll have an answer for it. But so far the reporting has been he's just preferred to do his training, you know, off site and not with his teammates. Again, it's hard to quantify what the actual field is, but I think your leadership point. There's this thing now, and this is probably like, OK, Boomer, but there's just this thing on Twitter, and it's partly because everyone, most people on Twitter are young, is that things that are permissible, like, or allowable

or legal are like somehow advisable. Right. Automatically. And it's, the logic is so flawed. It's like, yeah, I understand. It's voluntary. He's allowed to not be there. So, yeah, you can give me a hard time for, like, criticizing the guy like his dad. But, like, just because he's allowed to not go doesn't mean he shouldn't go. Yeah, I mean... What do we miss? For us, I mean, I'm not going to single out anybody. But, you know, for years, in the handbook, the day after Thanksgiving is a holiday, right?

You know, in our business. It's actually a day that we can technically take off. We don't have to work on that day. but it's in the middle of football season and on several Fridays after Thanksgiving over the last several years, it's the day after Washington actually played a game. Right. Like, if you have any sort of understanding of, you know, commitment and what's best for you, what's best for the company, you're at work on Friday, even though technically, according to the handbook, you could take it off.

But I think there's maturity in that too. and I think there's more sort of life and work experience exposure for people before they start to understand some of that. Although I think a lot of young people get it too. I don't want to discount that all young people don't get it. I think there are a lot of young people that would totally understand. No, I got to be at work that day. No, I should be at OTAs because it seems to be something that the staff really wants us to be at, even though technically, according to the handbook, I don't have to be there.

Right. Yeah, and by the way, everyone listening, please. Like tomorrow when we find out that his aunt has cancer and he's trying to be home, you know. Of course. I've already put out that discipline. We've had to make a lot of assumptions here. Yeah. Well, the, if there's a legitimate excuse, of course, this conversation is a moot.

So at quarterback, I was very happy that they made a big run at Matt Stafford. I'm also pleased with the, you know, the second prize, which is Ryan Fitzpatrick on a year deal. What is your take overall on how they've handled the quarterback situation in this offseason? Yeah, I agree. I don't have, I don't really have a hot take on this. I was hoping they would get Stafford. Too bad they didn't, but it's, it's fine that they didn't, you know, sell the farm for it. And I like you and, and, and optimistic that Fitzpatrick can can have a good year here too. I think maybe we're, we're still like overall on Twitter. I think there's a, you know, I mean, it's fine. I'm not going to, I don't begrudge the fans there,

excitedness about a guy who likes to sling it and is, you know, we'll take chances down the field. That should be fun. I hope it will be fun. I think maybe we're over overstating a little bit what he brings to the table. I know it was QBR or whatever has been like, you know, top 15 for a couple of years. Hopefully he could have a good year. I think we, we shouldn't forget that it's totally possible he would have a bad year. But it was a good move, a good sort of placeholder type move. And it should be a fun offense. if Aaron Rogers is legitimately available, would you want them to go after him?

Yeah. If you could convince me or somehow promise me that he was, you know, because he's a little mercurial, right? Is that a fair word? Like if he's all in, if he's like, I see it, I see the vision, I'm in with Ron. I want to go there and have a tour of destruction for the next three years, then I would give almost anything for it. If it's like he ends up here because he just couldn't block it because his contract wouldn't let him and he's, you know, potentially going to retire next year and go live

with his actress wife in Hawaii, then, you know, I worry a little about that. But if he's all in, I'm all in. Yeah, I think that's a really important part of it. And I think that, you know, that's only something the team can do to sort of get the sense as to whether or not he's going to come in all in, ready to, you know, wreck the rest of the league and wreck Green Bay, by the way, on the schedule this year as well. What about Deshawn Watson if everything gets cleared up? Boy, it's hard to even like imagine the universe where everything is cleared up. Let's say in two weeks it ended up being a lot less than what it's been portrayed at.

As, you know, there's some sort of conduct detrimental, you know, warning or something, but he's not suspended next year. And a lot of these things essentially got chased away by whatever. I'd go for it. I'd go for it, sure. Yeah, he's, he's really good and really young. I mean, and I can, yeah, I can get past it. I think he would make them really good for a long time. Offensively, were you surprised at sort of the fan reaction over Morgan Moses being cut? I mean, yeah, it was, it was, there was too much, too much worrying about it. I was a little surprised, but not in the sense that that, that tends to be what happens here is, we collectively overvalue our own. And I think we lose sight a little bit of like what's,

what's actually good in the league. I mean, I think, you know, he's been here for so long. And I do respect the hell out of the fact that he always posts. And so, you know,

he's, he has been there when they needed him a lot. So he's a very likable guy. He's a fellow Wahu. I'm glad that they had him. But yeah, it's not a, it's really,

I mean, it's a fairly, it caught me off guard. I'm not going to say I was, I was expecting it. But like, this is a fairly, I think league wide,

a fairly like routine. transaction to let go a guy who's, you know, getting up there in years and is not like elite and also has no guaranteed money. I mean, that happens. CBS Sports did this ranking of the top 10 defenses in the NFL projected for 2021. And Washington was number one. Is inflated or not? I think it is. I mean, I've, I have felt, even when they were getting super hot last year and the reputation, well, it just started to outpace what they actually were.

I mean, Kevin, you remember some of the games. They were truly atrocious last year. Middle part of last season couldn't stop the run at all, you know, just getting gashed. And we're not that far removed from that. It's a little premature. They've got some really good young players. There's ingredients there for something awesome. But this, no, I mean, I guess it would be fair to ask me, well, if they're not number one, who is.

But I just, I don't, I don't think of them as a shut down defense just yet. I feel like they're still totally vulnerable to big plays until proven otherwise. Yeah, I mean, Tampa Bay's got a better defense. Denver's got a better defense. Baltimore's got a better defense right now. I think it's coming. I think it's improving. And I think it should take another jump. And we, you know, the addition of Jackson, and we don't know what Davis is, but the addition of Jackson should help. But yeah, it's definitely, it's inflated, but it's talented and it's better coached. And that leads me to this. So we've already talked about Chase Young and the OTAs. Now let's talk about him as a player.

Does he have the most upside of any player in recent memory for this franchise? And if we both agree that that's true, which I think you probably would agree with, but I'll let you answer. I do. I do. Who's the second best player with the most upside on the team? Because I think they've got several that we could debate. And we couldn't do that in recent years. And I'm talking about top five at their position upside. Give me two seconds.

I don't know. I'll say something dumb. Durantaine. Yeah, that's my number two also. I think a lot of people would say McClorn or sweat. And I don't know what Jackson's going to be in this defense because I think that's the hardest thing. I think offensive line play and secondary play and the fits and how important they are.

One guy can look great in one system and look terrible in another. We've seen that in recent years, right? but I'm very intrigued by Jackson's upside too. But to me, Duran Payne's a physical freak. I just hope he can get consistent and bring it. But I think he's a top five talent at his position. Right. What's the season going to be?

What kind of season do they have? I think that they will, I think they'll go eight and nine. And everyone will be really disappointed. But I think that that could totally, they could go eight to nine and really still be every bit as, you know, upward facing as we've thought so far. They are going to, I mean, at this point, it's been covered at length. But like they got those seven regular season wins last year by facing just some garbage quarterbacks. It was huge part. I'm sorry, like it just was a humongous part of what happened.

100%. And then conversely, this year, they're getting all the studs. And it's going to be rough. I'm sorry, but people buckle up. It's going to be rough going. I know, I mean, schedule game, you're the schedule master. You're the schedule macker. You would know.

I don't usually play the schedule game so hard. I don't think that all the teams that are supposed to be good are necessarily going to be good. But all these quarterbacks are going to be good. And they're just, I don't think the window is quite open you. Yeah, they were on the same page there. I hate playing the schedule game. But with these quarterbacks, I don't know that any teams ever faced on paper. Murderers Row.

The list of quarterbacks that they're going to face this year. And I'm with you. And I think it is a buckle up because I think a lot of people will be disappointed if, you know, I think Ron knows it too. And he says it. I mean, it replies it. I mean, he knows he's not, he's very careful not to, he's definitely modulating expectations. Yeah, at the same time, you know, he didn't go out and sign a 38-year-old quarterback because

he didn't think he was going to compete this year. I mean, he's, he signed him because he thinks he's good enough to be, you know, a competitor in this division, even though they start off with Herbert, Josh Allen, Matt Ryan, Pat Mahomes, Aaron Rogers in five of their first seven games. And then they get Brady, by the way, two weeks later. This was fun. I really appreciate you doing this. And I had no idea what you sounded like until we talked right before the show. But we've been texting and private messaging back and forth for several years now. Burgundy blog, at Burgundy blog on Twitter, a real reasonable and fearless voice

among the group of people that fans go to for opinion and information. I appreciate this. We'll talk soon. Awesome. Thanks, Kevin. See you. All right. That's it for the day.

Back tomorrow with Tommy.