The Kevin Sheehan Show - Lot To Learn In Philly + Logan Paulsen

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

Kevin opened talking about Washington's biggest regular season game in years tomorrow night in Philadelphia. Logan Paulsen jumped on talk about the Commanders's season to date and to preview the match-up tomorrow night in Philadelphia. Reuben Frank/NBC Sports Philly was a guest previewing the game from the Eagles' perspective.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. In just over 24 hours, Washington's going to suit it up in Philadelphia to play one of the most important regular season games they've had in years. I don't think that's an exaggeration. I don't. It's not going to decide anything, but it'll likely tell us a lot about this team this year.

The show is presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com if you need new windows. Logan Paulson's going to be on with us in the next segment. Love having Logan on the show. We'll talk about the season so far through the 10 games. We'll go back to Pittsburgh and then we will get Logan to preview and maybe even pick tomorrow night's game against the Eagles. Ruben Frank, who we've had on the show before, he's with NBC Sports Philadelphia. He'll jump on in the final segment to give his thoughts on tomorrow night from the Eagles perspective.

Look, Philadelphia is used to these games. You know, they've been to the playoffs six times in the last seven years. They've won a Super Bowl, lost a Super Bowl. Washington has not been in any of these games, really. They haven't had a winning season in the last seven years. Remember, 2020 was a division-time. title, but at seven and nine. They did go eight, eight, and one in 2022, as was forecasted on this podcast. Will it matter the experience? Probably not. You know, Dan Quinn coached a team

to a Super Bowl. This is, you know, a completely different franchise and a different team than the one that played in the seven years prior to this year. Quinn and Joe Whit Jr. as part of Dallas's staff, was a part of a team that won 12 games three straight years. They had a lot of big games. Bobby Wagner, Zach Ertz, Nick Allegretti, Andrew Wiley, have all started in and won Super Bowls. Jaden Daniels played in some of the biggest SEC games the last two years, including against a few players, one in particular who plays for the Eagles,

and he will face tomorrow night. more on the encounter that he had with Jalen Carter in the SEC championship game coming up in a few minutes. This franchise is completely different, though, from the one that hardly ever had games like this one. There's new ownership for starters, obviously. Snyder is gone. Adults are running the show for the first time, and it's paid off much faster than anybody predicted. And the reason for the quick turnaround versus maybe a slower build, they've gotten things right, right from the jump. You know, the GM is a real GM, something that this franchise hasn't had in forever. And moreover, he's in lockstep with the head coach he hired on the kind of team they want and the kind of players it will take to get the team that they want.

You know, that's something that we, you know, heard from the beginning. You know, having Adam Peters be intimately involved in picking the head coach, finding somebody who had that same vision on what kind of team they wanted, and the kind of players that it would take to build that team, that is so crucial. The head coach, you know, who had already taken a team Atlanta to a Super Bowl, where they blew a 28 to 3 lead against the Patriots, But Dan Quinn is a true leader, and he brought on a first-rate staff, including an offensive coordinator that was in demand,

but turned out to be a perfect match with the quarterback that they wanted to draft. You know, and of course, another reason for the quick turnaround, and maybe the most important reason for the quick turnaround rather than a slower build, is Jaden Daniels himself. They drafted a very talented quarterback whose style is a perfect fit for today's NFL. And beyond the elite level talent, he has the rest of it, it would appear. You know, the intangibles, the work ethic, the football IQ. He's got this unflappable calm, poise that he plays with because he's played.

He has in some really big games, a lot of them, during a long college career. So, yeah, new owner, a real GM, a coach who the GM is on the same page with, and the quarterback. You know, that's equaled a fast, quick turnaround, seven wins in 10 games. But I talked about last Friday heading into, you know, the Pittsburgh game, that the two games were like the perfect test for the moment to find out more about this team that had won seven games in nine attempts. You know, four days, four nights, two opponents that would not necessarily be defining,

but would be telling that we'd learn something about this team and this season in particular. I'm not talking about the future. I'm optimistic about the future, you know, now that I know that they got a GM, a coach, and a quarterback. Tomorrow night's going to tell us something about this season. you know, this team this year, because seasons really are, you know, they're fleeting, they're different. It's week to week when it comes to a lot of the teams anyway, let alone year to year. I'm convinced that we're watching a playoff team. Of course, the record says they are, but I think

the eye test says they are. You know, nothing but a serious injury or, you know, injuries to key players is going to change my mind on that, you know, knock on wood. If they stay relatively healthy, they've got seven wins. And the way they've gotten those seven wins, and even the way they've lost the two games that they've lost, or two of the three that they've lost, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, I'm really talking about. I don't even think about that Tampa game anymore. Week one's nuts. But I think the eye test tells us this is a good football team.

It's an excellent offensive football team. And I think the way it sets up for them, you know, they're going to be able to find three or four more wins to easily qualify for the playoffs in the NFC. I'd be shocked looking at the NFC landscape if they're not a playoff team this year. But the game against the Eagles tomorrow night will tell us more specifically what kind of playoff team they have the potential to be. I think we've already learned from the game against Pittsburgh that they were, up for that kind of challenge. You know, a playoff atmosphere game. It was against a tough, overly physical team.

I've already talked about the loss, you know, enough this week. It was disappointing, but it was also encouraging on a lot of fronts for me. It was not a bad loss. It was a disappointing loss. Do we see the same thing tomorrow night in terms of, you know, matching the moment against a really good team? You know, this time, by the way, you know, part of this two-game stretch that I was talking about,

it's a short week where Philly, by the way, was able to rest their starters against the Cowboys on Sunday. I mean, Dallas is a pitiful football team. And Philly, you know, like they would against a JV team and a scrimmage, you know, played their starters for a half, you know, part of the third quarter and then started to put in all the guys that never get into games. You know, you can do that against Dallas this year. And Washington will have an opportunity in a couple of weeks,

do that as well. But Washington, while Philadelphia was playing, you know, a blowout game in which the starters got to take a quarter and a half off, Washington went toe to toe for 60 minutes down to the wire in a very intense game. So, you know, tomorrow night is tricky. You know, these Thursday night games are always tricky and often unpredictable, you know, and I think a big part of tomorrow night, and I'm a little bit encouraged in thinking about it this way is I think coaching's a big deal in these short turnaround games. You know, coaching matters, you know, preparation for the opponent, doing the right things to make sure your team is as fresh as it can be. You know, training staff matters a lot. You know, is the offense able tomorrow night to shrug off what was the first average performance of the season since

the opener anyway, can the defense step up again against another run-first team, this one having even more big play potential than the Steelers? You know, tomorrow night, an impressive showing with a win, and I think we will have learned that a division title is very much a possibility, if not a probability, along with a very high NFC seed. You know, you can't tell me that if they win tomorrow night and they look impressive doing it, that all of you won't be bought into the potential for a big run this year. You know, an impressive showing tomorrow night, but let's say a close loss, I won't feel good about it. I'm not going to hold moral victory parties. I'm not going to talk moral victory on this show,

but you'll still have another game against them at home in late December to get back to where you want to get to. Now, if they don't play well tomorrow night, if they lose tomorrow night, if they're outclassed tomorrow night, because Philly is a more talented team. If Philly looks the part that they seem to have been looking like in recent weeks, then I think in the moment tomorrow night, the tell will be it's a wild card team. You know, it's a five or a six seat that's going to have to go on the road in the first round of the playoffs to face San Francisco or Arizona or Atlanta or maybe Philadelphia, hopefully not Detroit. But again, you know, it's a point in the season where, yes, things that happen are usually more

instructive than not, but they're not conclusive. You know, there's plenty of time left. There's six games after tomorrow night for Washington, seven for Philly. You know, Washington's got a somewhat favorable schedule the way it looks, and they've got a chance to get better because they're going to be adding a player that they traded for at the deadline, Marshawn Latimore, who could be a significant ad to help, you know, the part of the team that hasn't been that great for the 10 games that they've played. I'm really hoping for a game that I walk away from tomorrow night, first and foremost, as a fan rooting for the winning team.

you know, imagine 8 and 2 Philadelphia dropping, or Washington would go to, I'm sorry, 8 and 3, Philadelphia dropping to 7 and 3, but having that one game in hand on the road against them, that would feel great, and that certainly would be, you know, a big tell, a big, you know, instructive moment as to what is possible with this team. but I'm really hoping for ultimately other than the obvious, which is them winning, a game that tells us that we're either better than Philadelphia or we're right there with them. Big time matchup, can't wait. Much more in terms of what they're up against tomorrow night with Logan in the next segment. Tomorrow's show I'll give you my keys to a win and a prediction.

Tommy will have his prediction as well. Real quickly before we get to Logan, because I mentioned this briefly, Jaden Daniels, tomorrow night, will be facing a team in Philadelphia that has a lot of players from Georgia. I think most of you know that. They've got five or six players on the defensive side of the ball that went to Georgia. You know, Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter, Nikobe Dean, who am I forgetting, Nolan Smith, Keeley Ringo. I think that's five right there. I may be missing somebody.

But when LSU played Georgia in the 2022 SEC championship game, Georgia, remember, was the number one team in the country. They were big favorite in that game. In the second quarter, this was Jaden's first year at LSU. In Jalen Carter, remember, was considered at that moment the best defensive player in the country. And he probably was. Down 28 to 7 in the second quarter, Jaden. was battling an ankle injury. He got sacked by Jalen Carter. Jalen Carter is, you know, for those of you who haven't watched Philadelphia this year or last, he is their monster defensive tackle.

He is really good. And in this game in the second quarter, rather than taking Daniels down to the ground, you can find this on YouTube. Jalen Carter picked Jaden Daniels up with one hand, literally one hand, picked him up, held them up in the air until they whistled the play dead, and then placed him back down on the ground. It was, you know, a play that became, you know, went viral. Jaden left the game after the play and did not come back. He had an ankle injury. Nussmeyer, who's the quarterback right now for LSU, came in.

Georgia won the game by 20, went on to win the national championship, beating TCU in the final. Now the players that played on that Georgia team that Jaden will be facing, Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, and I think Keeley Ringo. I think those are the three, because I don't think Jordan Davis was on that Georgia team.

I think he was the year before. All right us and review us if you get a chance, especially on Apple and Spotify. Follow us as well on both. That's a huge help. Logan Paulson, next, after these words, from a few of our sponsors. Euro step around that hot take and make a play today with Robin Hood.

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Gold membership is offered by Robin Hood Gold LLC. Logan Paulson is going to jump on with me here momentarily. Quick word first about window nation. Heating costs are going up again this winter, according to the experts, as much as 23% depending on where you live. If you don't have Windonation windows, a lot of your money is literally going out of the window. Why? Because Window Nation has some of the most insulated windows you can buy. That means more of the heat you're paying for stays inside your home. Actually, a lot more than the other big name window brands. Window Nation proved it to me. They'll make you a believer as well. The best part is that this November, you can get amazing windows at 50% off. Plus, you could save even more with zero percent interest for five full years. Get top 10%.

windows from Window Nation at a fraction of the cost of other big names. Hurry, the sale ends November 30th, so act now before this offer ends. Schedule your fast in-home free estimate right now at 86690 Nation or visit Windonation.com. Joining me right now is one of your favorites, one of my favorites as well. Logan Paulson is with us to not only discuss tomorrow night. I do want to go back and talk a little bit about Sunday. But I was just thinking about something, and I don't think I've ever talked to you about this.

You know, between you and Doc and Cooley, three tight ends that played for this franchise, all three of you have had media follow-up careers. I mean, Doc forever, obviously. Cooley for a long period of time as well, you've done a phenomenal job in creating, you know, a post career as a media analyst covering this team. why the success of former tight ends in media? Is there something to the position? I don't know why.

I mean, you know, obviously Docs, legend and coolies, you know, iconic, and here I am kind of budding along. I think we all have our own strengths and weaknesses. I do that. I think one of the benefits of playing tight ends is you have a very not, like, large knowledge base of, like, run fronts and coverages and route concepts. it helps you kind of extrapolate a lot more information about the game of football in a way that some other positions unnecessarily have access to, you know, like receivers tend to be in the lane

of receivers, corners, shouldn't be the lane of corners, offensive line with the past game. So I do think it provides an opportunity to kind of be able to touch and speak knowledgeably about, you know, the many different facets of football. After quarterback, what position, and maybe it's tight end, what position has, it requires the most you know, intellect. Yeah, I mean, I do think it is tight-end. And I, you know, that probably sounds a little self-serving at this point. But I do think it's side-end because, again, you have to know,

I have to know every run. I have to know every pass protection. I have to know all the route concepts. I have to know what every receiver does on those route concepts. I have to know the quarterback reads to a certain extent, just in terms of understanding what I'm clearing out or from the primary and things like that. So it really forces you to know every element of the offense,

like the offensive line coach, like they know, protection really well. They know the running game really well, but they don't really know about the quarterback drop or the routes or anything like that. The receivers are the same way. And running backs, you know, some of the protections from the backfield, but they don't understand kind of the blocking surface. So it is a very unique position. And it's also very interesting because I think, you know, you are afforded an opportunity to know more than the quarterback in some cases about some of the runs and some of the protection calls and some of the actual, like, granular stuff that's happening with the offensive line. So it is, it's a

very uniquely kind of qualified position. I think middle linebackers one that I would kind of point to as requiring a lot of intellect. But on the opposite side of football, I definitely go as quarterback. And then I think tight end. Yeah, I was going to ask you, I didn't intend on talking to you about this, but I appreciate your descriptions of these positions and what they entail. But I was going to guess either middle linebacker or center would be next in line after tight end. Yeah, I think center is one that I mean obviously you see the value of a good center like with a guy like Tyler Biotto's come to the commanders

like they have to call protections, they have to target fronts, they have to kind of understand the calls, understand coverage, understand where blitzers are coming from. It's a position that requires a ton of intellect. And when you talk to former centers, it's really awesome. It's like a master class and not only, you know, offensive line technique, but also just defensive scheme depending on what systems they were a part of.

So, you know, a position that requires a ton of intellect, but obviously, the linebacker, like, when you're calling, you know, you're setting the front, you're setting the defensive line, you're calling the coverage structure, you're making the checks. Like, you obviously have to know a lot of ball and talking to guys like Fletch and listening to him in the broadcast booth is your fans are very fortunate because he brings that knowledge and you see it every time he calls the game. All right, let's get to this team.

If somebody just dropped in from wherever, totally clueless, about the first 10 games of the season. After they expressed surprise that the team is 7 and 3, if they asked you to summarize why and how they got to 7 and 3, what would your answer be? Yeah, I think if I had to summarize why they're at 7 and 3, I think the first thing I'd say is that they are really well-coached, well-executed football team.

They may not be the most talented group, but they understand their assignment, to understand their role. They're very clearly defined with their role, and I think they've done a great job across the board of doing that, but specifically with the young quarterback, Jane Daniels. Like, that's the thing that really sticks out to me is every single week this group gets better

because the guys understand more clearly how they fit in the defense or the offense. And I think that's what has made this tremendously special this season is you really see, in my opinion, the value of coaching and maximizing players. obviously scheme is important, but maximizing the Jim's and Joe's is never been more apparent to me than watching this season. Because while the roster had a lot of turnover this offseason from, you know, Ron Rivera's staff to Dan Quinn's, you see how they've been able to maximize and get improvement from players that, you know, didn't feel like they could improve anymore. And, you know, Tony, you know, Wiley at right tackle is having a great year.

But they do it get a lot of heat, but he's playing so much better than he was last year. Juan Martin, all these different pieces have developed under Dan, under Joe Whit Jr., under Cliff Kingsbury. And I think not only those guys, but the staff itself deserves a ton of credit for that. I mean, you're a coach, you coach high school football, you're an offensive mind. Who impresses you the most on the staff? Is it Kingsbury? Yeah, I definitely think Kingsbury deserves probably that recognition because of what he's doing with a rookie quarterback. And obviously, Jayden Daniels is very special, but understanding kind of what this is something that I have a really hard time with.

Because you want to put in as much football as you can. You want to put the offensive line in the best position to be successful. And there's a lot of different things you can do to do that. And Cliff said something in one of his early press conferences that I always think about it. It's not about what I know. It's about what Jane Daniels is most comfortable with. And you can tell just from Cliff, like talking with him briefly, he knows a ton of football.

He's been around a ton of smart people. The staff is full of brilliant people. You know, Anthony Lynn and Brian Johnson. smart guys, but he's done a good job of kind of staying in his lane and insulating the quarterback and cultivating an environment where he can grow. And so I think like in an NFL landscape where that is the most difficult thing to do, you look at Caleb Williams, for example, look at Shane Waldron. Look how that relationship totally deteriorated. Look how Shane Waldron was not maximizing. You know, I like Shane. I think he's really smart dude. Didn't maximize Caleb

Williams. And here in this environment, we've kept it simple, we kept it straightforward, and we've slowly week on week kind of built out what we do and built that what we're comfortable with. I think you think he deserves a ton of credit for that because it's so hard to not overreach with a young quarterback in the NFL. So I think you've kind of answered my next question, which is, you know, what about this team, a player, a coach, a position group gives you the most confidence. It sounds like the answer would be you just think this is a really buttoned up, well-coached team, and that's what you're most confident about.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of it. I mean, I think the thing is, you know, we've talked about this since, you know, Adam Peters was hired, but I think getting him in position and seeing the personnel decisions that he's made, the relationship that he has with Dan, how they find pieces to fit their vision, how they kind of seemingly are on the same page. That, to me, is probably the thing that I'm most excited about, that GM coach relationship. Because while this season's tremendous so far and everyone's tremendously excited, and this team is exceeding expectations, left, right, and center,

the thing that gives me the most confidence is that next year can and should be better because they make good personnel decisions. They bring people in that aren't disconnected from Dan's vision, right? It's how do I maximize Dan's vision as Adam Peters with players that he wants and that I believe in, and I think you see that again, like just look at the draft, look at pre-agency. You look at the Marshall Matamor signing. All of those decisions seem to be in lockstep.

with Dan and the staff, and it's maximizing it. And so that gives me a really, really high level of confidence. But moving forward, while this is good, it's the foundational year, and it's just going to get better and better and built upon with good sound football decisions. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. What are you most concerned about? Like for this season or long term?

No, this season, this season. Yeah. I do think right now the team is kind of punching above their weight class that's just been executing at such a high level that's offensively

and I think you know Joe Wood Jr. deserves a ton of credit for the defense of that but I do think they're punching up I think the talent level the total talent level

like obviously there's great pieces there's you know you're Dron pains your Jeremy Chins or Frankie Lou Lou's on defense you're B. Robs your Terry McCorrens or Jade Daniels on offense

but I think the depth and the lack of premier talent at some other spots is just going to fatigue the roster. And at some point, I think that's going to keep up with them a little bit. So that's something I'm a little concerned about it again. Like we said, this is the first foundational year of a long-term developmental process for this roster. But that's the thing for the rest of the season that I'm trying to keep an eye on is like, as we get into the back half of this season, where I know having done it,

it is extremely mentally fatiguing. Can guys who are getting banged up, getting injured, have to play a lot, even though they're hurt, you know, and young players like Jayden Daniels, like, can you mentally make this push for the last half of the season? Because I will say, like, you know, when I did it as a rookie, it was very challenging, and then watching rookies in subsequent years get used to the length of the NFL season can be really challenging.

So I think just the kind of the back half here, like, is the roster talented enough? Are they kind of mentally tough enough? Are they mature enough to handle it? Remains to be seen, even though the first. half the year's been spectacular. This is a different animal moving in the second half of the season. Yeah, really good points. Going back to Sunday real quickly, how did you grade Jaden's performance?

Yeah, you know, it was tough because I felt like there was a kind of a combination of things. So I gave him probably like a B-minus B-plus area because I think he's making good decisions. I think that defense is very good. I think he was let down in certain situations by drop balls by receivers that don't normally drop passes. also thought there were times where he was a little bit accelerated, a little bit out of his comfort zone, and it showed up a little bit. But I do think that the thing that gets me really excited about that is that he has shown at every opportunity that he knows how to learn from

those mistakes and kind of move on to the next step. And that's something that I think is really special about him. So, you know, even though the speed, like the Steelers game felt to me watching from the sideline, kind of like a playoff game, it was fast, it was energetic, it was chippy. And this is good for him because now he understands. like there's another level to this NFL thing. And the sooner he gets to see that, the sooner he can make an adjustment and continue his developmental process. Did you think, as some have suggested, that he wasn't at 100% that the rib injury from the Carolina game is somehow, or did somehow affect his performance? I mean, it might have.

I mean, I haven't heard anything specifically regarding that. I mean, I've had room injuries before, and I'll tell you, like, you can play. and they hurt like hell the next week and you play, and they hurt like hell the week after that. So they're kind of with you until you take a lot of time off. So I wouldn't be surprised. But also, you know, he's allowed to have an off game. You know, like he's a human being and like Tom Brady has him,

Drew Brees had him, Bates Manning had him. And like it wasn't like he played badly. Right. This was a little bit off. And I think we are getting the time of season, which is I don't know their exact practice structure just to be clear. But I remember with Shanahan and with Jay and with Kyle when I was with him in San Francisco.

You get to kind of that middle of the season, week 9, 10, and there's a lot of walk-through, you know, and so, you know, how was he handling kind of that change in practice structure at this time of year? Like, is he throwing extra? Is he able to still work the timing with his receivers?

Like, what's that process looked like for everything? He's got to probably learn on the fly and figure it out. So I think there's a myriad of things that could have affected him because it could have just been off. But I'm very confident that if there's one person on this roster, they can get it figured out, it's definitely Jason Daniel. Well, yeah, there's a myriad of things

including the other team was really good, Sunday. That's right. That's absolutely right. So I thought that Sunday was by far in a way, for me anyway, the best defensive performance overall, especially against the run, you know, against a good team. I mean, taking the Cleveland ineptitude offensively, the Carolina game, what did you think?

no I thought they did a great job and that that was probably it was kind of fun to watch actually the defense because of how physical they played the different fronts and the different schematic things that Joe Wood Jr. did I thought he did a great job of putting those guys in good positions early on to stop the run and really understanding who the opponent was other there was a very clear understanding of like what the Pittsburgh Steelers wanted to do they wanted to run the football we just need to stop the run and you know kind of put the ball in wrestle with his hands and I think they did a great job I think obviously there's a couple plays, which I'm sure we're going to talk about here in a little bit.

There was kind of breakdowns in coverages and people lost one-on-ones. But I think on the whole, when you look at the coverage, you're like, man, these guys are starting to figure it out a little bit. So I do think, yeah, like across the board, very solid performance for the commander's defense against Pittsburgh Steelers. And, you know, hopefully they can keep building on it because they got a really tough matchup tomorrow against the little Eagles. When you load the box, and by the way, going back and watching, I'd ask you, let me ask you this first, actually, there were three or four plays in the first half where there were nine, literally nine of the 11 defensive players within two or three yards of the line of scrimmage. Is that, that's unusual to have a loaded box usually means one extra player and eighth player in the box, whether it's a safety walking up, you know, pre-snap or whether you, you line up with eight there. What is nine in the box do to you on the back end?

You must be 100% convinced that they're going to run the football or if they check it's to something quick. Yeah, and so I think in those situations specifically, they're in some version of 13 personnel or 20 personnel. They were in 13 in each of them. Yeah, they were in 13 in each of them. Yeah. And so obviously they have a very high, Pittsburgh Steelers.

They have a very high. tendency to run the football in those looks. And so, you know, they kind of were trotting out something akin to their goal line personnel. They were kind of four inside, two overhang players, kind of like this six-two structure with Jeremy in the box. And they were definitely committed, excuse me, to stopping the run. But I think that's just, again, kind of what I was referring to before, just good understanding of what this team wanted to be and what they want to do in certain personnel groupings. And you can sell the farm in those situations to make sure they can't run the football.

And I think that was, again, kind of one of the things I was excited to see is that they, you could tell they had really prepped and understood what Arthur Smith wanted to do in certain looks and how he wanted to kind of exploit certain matchups. And they were like, you know, we're not going to do that. We're going to go toe to toe to with you and put our guys in good positions to be successful. All right. So let's talk about maybe a couple of the plays that you were referring to. And, you know, in some of those situations, we ended up with, you know, man coverage on the back end.

Russell Wilson took some shots and made some really good throws. I mean, I don't know how you knock the throws and the catches by both Pickens and by Mike Williams. But tell me about the coverage in some of those situations. How much of – let's start with the Mike Williams go-ahead touchdown and game-winning touchdown. How much of that was on St. Juice? I mean, I think, you know, post-game, he was very forthcoming. He kind of said it was all on him. you know, and, you know, I've heard people be critical of the call and all this kind of stuff,

and I really don't have a problem with the call. I think you've had good pressure all day, good success all day, bringing pressure, and you kind of got to trust that that's going to be successful there, and it almost was, and I think I look at St. Juice, I look at the route, and I understand why do you think maybe he's running an out or maybe he's running a dig because of the stem he took, but I think also understanding kind of who this team has been, the Steelers, and what they want to do in those situations, is they want to throw vertical, So he was very, I appreciate his, like his candor, you know, when he was like, yeah, it's on me.

I got to make that play. I got to understand the situation of what they want to do. And I would agree with that. Like as much as I want to say, oh, it's good route. And it is a good route. And it is a good route. You got to put yourself in a better position to be successful. And he is on an island there.

He's in a really kind of a tough matchup from more than one standpoint. But all game, you know, prior to that point, he was very successful in terms of matching those outside receivers. and, you know, no one's going to talk about those plays because, you know, they didn't throw the ball to him to the person he was covering because he did such a good job. But, you know, I think in that big moment, he's probably kicking himself because it kind of obviously puts a negative shroud on an otherwise positive game frame. Latimore is going to be here eventually. I'm assuming that it probably won't be tomorrow night. Are you assuming the same?

That is my assumption. I don't think he practiced earlier this week. And usually, you know, Dan, having played for him, he's a very big proponent of, like, if you're going to play, like we need you to practice at least one or two days. And for him, it doesn't seem like he's quite ready to go. And if I'm, you know, the training staff here, which, again, they do a great job.

They do a great job with their hamstring rehabs. Like, I got to go down there briefly over summer and kind of talk with him about that. And they really are doing some very high-level stuff with hamstring rehabilitation protocols. they understand what's going on there. I'm very confident, and why rush him back when you have kind of the extended-by coming off Thursday night. So I think there's a lot of benefit to holding him out, and I don't think there's any need to rush him back necessarily.

All right. When he gets back, this has been a big part of the conversation. I've not heard what you've said about this. But how do you think that works out for St. Juice, San Ristill, and Igben O'Gennie? Yeah, so I think it's just going to be. to help those guys out because I look at that the end of game scenario is I think that Mike Williams played the perfect example

and instead of Benjamin's say juice having to be one-on-one with a true ex-receiver in that situation with the safety kind of pushed over to the three receiver side like that's Marshall Matamore now and then Benjamin Juice is over on the other side with safety

help and good position understanding where his help and its leverage is and you know I'm not saying he's going to do that automatically you know maybe there's a rotation with him Santer Still or him in a ignitmonogony, whatever that looks like, but I think everyone kind of gets to be put into a more comfortable role. Because I do, this year, and I give Joe Wood Jr. a lot of credit, man. Like, Benjamin St. Juice is one of the guys I'm talking about who's playing significantly

better this year than he was last year. He just seems to have a better plan, better understanding of where his help is and the leverage he should play. Now we can do that in a more, in a less stressful environment at the number two corner. And so that's what I think ultimately this gives you, you get, you kind of put Benjamin St. juiced in the bucket he's supposed to be in as a true number two. And let Marshall be Marshall on the perimeter. And I think that's something that's really exciting because all of a sudden that secondary looks significantly more dynamic and significantly more formidable.

Because every team, you know, out of the NFL, like even the Broncos, which with Patrick Sertan, one of the best quarterback, cornerbacks in the NFL, the guy opposite him is a good player, but not a great player. But you don't know about him if he's not the true one. And so I think if you can kind of get a similar kind of, bumping people down the ladder here, it should be very helpful for the secondary and allow those guys and allow Joe Wood Jr. to call and execute a defense more similar to what he wants to do. Yeah, that's interesting because it sounds to me like even though there may be, you know,

some mixing and matching in terms of, you know, Sanra still maybe plays a little bit on the outside at times, depending on, you know, the team you're playing and what kind of personnel you're facing. But in their base or in their nickel, you think, San Ristills now with Latimore out there, the nickel corner? I think so, and I think that's where he's probably more comfortable. And I think every couple times a game, you know, whether the ball is completed or not, you see him, again, he's such a competitive instinctive player. But everyone's not totally understand where the help is or totally understand the leverage.

And he's a young player, but I think he's going to be way more impactful for this team, you know, kind of on the interior. Like, I think that's where his skill set lies. And I can't wait to see him be able to get in there. own that. Think about what he's had to go to this office. He's gone from the nickel to perimeter, and then hopefully back to nickel. And you can't really own something when you're bouncing around like that.

So it's really, quite honestly, a testament to him and his ability to learn in his professionalism. So hopefully, again, when Marshawn gets in here, we can kind of settle everybody in to their more natural roles and really maximize, you know, all four of those guys. All right. Let's get to the game tomorrow night. What are the keys to beating Philadelphia? Oh, my gosh.

This is a tough one, because this is a tough getting ready for them. We just talked about doing a lot of study on the short week, but this is definitely the most talented team that we've played this year on a per-person basis. Obviously, the offense for Baltimore is probably a little bit more efficient, but when you just look through the personnel, there's probably no better team in football maybe outside of Baltimore. And so defensively, I think the thing that comes immediately to them to have to how explosive they are

with Devonte Smith. you know, A.J. Brown on the perimeter and Jalen Hurts's ability to push the football down the field. Take on Barclay's an explosive weapon. So for me, to me, it becomes a war of attrition. Like it just says, like, can you get out there, play some soft zones? Ben, but don't break. I understand that they want to run the football quite a bit, but quite frankly, that's the lesser of two evils, in my opinion. And I want to get Jaden out there and have him hold the football and try to throw it on us. This is essentially what I want. And, you know, he turns the football over, quite a bit. He's got five interceptions. He's got four fumbles or whatever it is. So that to

me is kind of what you want. I want him throwing versus zone that he throws a lot of his picks when he gets down into the red zone. So Benba don't break. Don't give up the explosive play. Get that field nice and tight down there in the low red and maybe I'll throw you one. And we've seen the defense come alive with turnover the last couple weeks, but it is going to be a slog. Their offensive line, they're getting Jordan by Lottaback this week is excellent. Like, I mean, Mackay back to the right guard for them has been tremendous, a tremendous addition. Leonard Dickerson at Left Guard is, you know, one of the best guards in football. Lane Johnson, one of the best tackles in football, and Jordan Milato, one of the best tackles in football.

They are a fun, physical, big athletic group to watch, and the whole offense is like that, the receivers, the tight end, the running back. So Joe, what you just got earned his money this week, but I'd say play soft coverage. They can go on 18 play drives, and hopefully Jayden, or Jay, Jay, Lennie. excuse me, turns it over to you. It won't be 18 if you're playing soft between the 20s because it'll take four runs

to get to the low red. You know what's crazy though? It's like when you watch their down-to-down rushing efficiency, it's not what it's been over the past couple years. Obviously Saquan is tremendous and he had so explosive plays, like I think about the New York Giants game where it's kind of a gain of two,

a gain of one, a two, get a one, and a 55-yarder. That's something you definitely got to be aware of. But for whatever, reason, I can't really put my finger on it. You know, without Jason Kelsey or yeah, Jason Kelsey, there we go. Yeah. You know, in the perimeter, in the interior there,

they kind of pull in the space and maximize those gun runs. They've been a little bit less effective than they have in the last couple years. So I kind of ride that a little bit and say, hey, you're not going to kill us. We just got to make sure we don't give up the big play. I think that's the thing is, you're right. Statecombe Barley is incredibly explosive, but as long as we don't give up a 50-yard play, we can give up a 10-yard run, we're okay with that. We can give up a 10-yard completion, but we just got to force you to stand at the field and do it over and over again.

Because quite frankly, they've shown that they can't do that. They want the explosive chunk. And so that's where I would say, just, you know, be ready for a long day tomorrow on defense. And hopefully, again, they're not super fastidious with the football. Yeah, I thought it was interesting that you said, you know, the poison to pick is, Ben don't break, you know, will pick getting gashed, you know, for 14, you said 18 plays. but 12, 13, 14 plays. I actually agree with you as it relates to tomorrow night.

But I'm curious as to what you thought against Pittsburgh because I think they picked the correct poison, which was if we get deep, we'll take that, but we can't get gashed by Harris over and over again for five yards per carry. Oh, I think that's 100% right. I think that was the right decision. At least in that game, it felt totally different.

It felt like you need to stop the run. and you need to force Russ in these low percentage throws. I think the reason I feel differently about it this week is because that offensive line is so good in pass protection. They're going to push the football down the field. He has the longest time to throw in the NFL at the moment. It's over three seconds. That's a crazy number for a quarterback, you know, usually down in that 2-4 range.

And so, you know, you can't let A.J. Brown behind the defense. You can't let Devante aspects behind the defense because they are going to kill you. So keep everything in front. bide your time. And again, in that low red area, they have not been great with the football, specifically at the quarterback spot. So I know it's the lesser of two evils in this case, but unlike the Steelers where it was very clearly, you've got to stop the run here because of the dynamism of the offense as a whole and because of the ability for, you know, A.J. Brown to beach underneath and take something 60 yards for a touchdown, you've got to really, really

manage that group in a much different way than you would Pittsburgh. Yeah, I mean, I understand that that makes sense to me. And I think back, to the last quarterback that they faced, which was true dual threat, and they were 11 on 11 in the run game, which was Lamar, and they played the run. They sold out to stop the run and got shredded through the air, actually, in that game. And then in the second half, Derek Henry ran wild. But the way you described it makes sense to me, and you just have to hope that they self-destruct when they get, you know, into that condensed field situation, or that you hold them to field which would be nice. Offensively, yeah, offensively, you say what?

Offensively, this is the last three games, one of the best, actually not one of is the best defense in football statistically. Now they've played the Jaguars. They've played the Giants. They've played some teams that aren't very good. But what I will say is the thing that gives me confidence going into this match, but the thing that's hurt us is when teams say, hey, I'm first and second down, we're going to kind of play eight-man boxes. We're going to play tight-man coverage on the outside,

which takes away screens, which takes away some of the bubbles, some of the kind of RPO stuff, and we force you to run in the bad looks. That's Hurt us. Cleveland Hurt us with it, and obviously the Steelers hurt us with it. But I will say in this game,

I think that Vicksangio is going to be Vick Sanjo. He's going to play kind of soft quarters coverage. They have one of the lowest blitzing percentages in the NFL over the last like five or six games. It might be the third lowest in the NFL. So to me, I'm looking at that and I'm saying they're going to do what they're going to do and they're going to let us do what we do

and they think they can do what they do better. And I'm not sure they can do that. I think Cliff and what this offense is, especially with Jaden Daniels, and his ability to run the football, especially in scrambling situations, is special and it's going to be problematic for them. So that's something I'm kind of going to watch early in this game

is do they say, hey, we're going to pressure a lot and put Jaden in the position? that he's been in the last couple of against the Steelers specifically, and the Giants, something similar also. So that's something that I'm really curious to watch is, does Vic Fangio just say we're going to be us, or does he kind of change his approach based on what's been successful this year against Jaden? Yeah, and for people that haven't been watching Philadelphia all year,

and you're going to see him for the first time, they're different personnel-wise, Logan. I mean, Zach Bond is having a Pro Bowl type of season. I mean, go back to the opener against the Packers in Brazil. I thought he was the best player on the field that night. And they are much faster. Don't you think they've really increased their team speed on the back end? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think when you look at Quignon Mitchell, he's a dynamic, explosive player, Cooper D. Jean, the nickel has been a really nice edition. I forget the safety's name, number 32. He's also all over the field. Blankenship. Yeah. Yeah, Blankinships are great. Nicobie Dean is starting to figure it out a little bit.

you mentioned Bond, and then their defensive line, man, they got some studs in that group, obviously Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, one of the first and second down player, Milton is kind of their other past rushing interior player, does a great job for them, their edge guys, Nolan Smith is the fourth of every guy. They got some tremendous speech,

tremendous athletes on the field, like I said at the top, like this is the most athletic, most physically gifted team we played this year, and it shows up when you watch the film. Like, they fly to the football, they cover a lot of grass, they can squeeze zones and coverage. It's going to be, this is a challenging football game

coming up on Thursday night. All right. We'll close it out with this. Who wins and why? Oh, my gosh. I mean, are you not allowed to pick the game? Are you not allowed to pick the game? No, no. No, I'll pick the game. I could pick the game.

So I would say, I would say the commanders. I want the commanders to win, obviously, but I just if they play the way defensively they were talking about and really turn the football over, I think the commanders that can win. But I do think on a short week, everyone's banged up.

They really need a buy week coming up here to kind of get everybody healthy. I feel like the Philadelphia Eagles are in a one. I think it's going to be a close game, but probably, I think commanders probably lose by a touchdown. So I'll say 30, you know, 20, something like that, 30, 24, something like that in that range. Did you just

did you just pick both teams? You first said, I think, I think, I think the commanders will win. Okay, you're picking Philly. I know what I said. Okay. I'm picking Philly, I say I want the commanders to win. And if they do, if they're effective in the turnover battle and all those things, I think they can win,

I just think Philly's a little too, a little too talented at this point. And I think Washington's just a touch too banged up for my liking. So, you know, which is disappointing because I want both teams to be at full strength, but it kind of feels like Philly's kind of getting healthier and getting better, and the young guys are kind of buying it a little bit more and Washington's just banged up coming off this Steelers game. So it's too bad, but they'll be going to be getting in a couple weeks, and hopefully they win that one.

All right. Logan is part of the flagship radio broadcast team for the team. Bram and London in the booth. Logan does a really good job on the sidelines. In fact, I mentioned, you know, I reached out to you the other day because somebody told me that you had said that Jaden may have had a cut on his hand, but you weren't sure, but they were using the clock. rotting spray or whatever, and I actually mentioned that on the show the other day.

It doesn't seem like that's popped up on an injury report anywhere, so I'm assuming it was in nothing. No, I mean, it didn't seem that significant, but it's always interesting when you're on the sideline, and you see the trainers kind of all migrating over to where Jayden is. You're like, what's going on over there? So let's go check that out real quick, and it wasn't anything major, but, you know, it's fun to be on the sideline because you get to see that kind of stuff. All right.

He is part of the radio broadcast. He does so much for the commanders on their website, on their YouTube channel with Santana and Smoot and everybody. And he and Craig Hoffman have a podcast called Take Command. Thanks for doing this as always. I always enjoy it. Kevin, it's always a blast man. You're a master of your craft. Stop it.

I'll talk to you later. Enjoy the game tomorrow. I appreciate it. Thanks, man. Logan Paulson, everybody. Love having him on the show. His analysis is really good. Tight ends in this town, man, over the years. Incredible. All right, up next, we will get the Philadelphia side of tomorrow night's story. Ruben Frank from NBC Sports Philadelphia will jump on with me right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Is there anything better when you're a football fan than this time of year? It seems like there are games on around the clock. It's a changing time of year.

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You know, I've talked a lot about this this week. These two teams have not faced each other very much in the last, you know, two decades plus late in the season, you know, with these kind of stakes and the record being what it is. You guys are used to these games, but typically against the Cowboys or the Giants. So, you know, it's not what it used to be for you guys. It's a little bit different. How does it feel? Yeah, you know, it's crazy. The last time both these teams were in the playoffs the same year was 1992. That's how far back it goes. Wow. Yeah, I mean, their good periods just haven't overlapped. And I mean, there was some great battles back in the 80s and 90s.

But it's been a long time. And I think it's kind of nice. It's kind of refreshing for the NFC East because it's been it's just been Cowboys, Eagles, Eagles, Cowboys just about every year recently. So it's I think it's nice to see what Washington's doing and what Jayden Daniels is doing. And, you know, it's kind of shakes

things up, shakes up the hierarchy that we've seen for years and years. And it's definitely welcome. You know, because I know you have kind of memory, too, because as you mentioned it, I've had these conversations with you before. That 92 season, the Cowboys actually, you know, won the division. That was Jim's first real good team, even though they went to the playoffs. All three went to the postseason, yeah. All three went to the postseason, and there was a, Washington was the defending champ. You know, they had won it in 91,

and they had just kind of putts up and down all year long, and they played a game late in the season at the vet. It was such an intense game. In fact, it's available on YouTube. And Washington had a fourth down throw into the end zone for Gary Clark, who got absolutely mugged, no call. Philly won the game. What I remember about that play is that Eric Allen, I believe, was covering Art Munk and left him because he knew that the ball was going to Gary Clark. He left his man and made to play. And Eric Allen says it was, you know, probably a Hall, should be a Hall of Famer. He says to this day that's one of his favorite plays he's ever made in the NFL.

It was an unforgettable game. It was a great game. And Washington wasn't eliminated. You know, that was kind of a play-in game. They actually backdored their way in. They lost the next game at home against a Raiders team who wasn't good. But Brett Farve, all right? played the Vikings to get that last spot, and they lost. The Vikings had nothing to play for, won the game. Washington went to Minnesota and beat Minnesota to go to the divisional round. And I think that's the year that you guys played the Cowboys in the other divisional game, because I think you went to New Orleans in one, right?

Or am I thinking of another year? No, you're right. Yeah, the Eagles scored 26 points in the fourth quarter and beat the Saints. And then lost to the Cowboys, I believe Washington got knocked out, next week by the 49ers? Yeah, but it was close. They had the ball driving late in the rain down 17, 13, and Brian Mitchell actually Ripon lost the ball, handing it off to Brian Mitchell, and the 49ers recovered, and that was it. And by the way, that was it. That's the last. Amazing. Amazing how we can remember. I can remember more about playoff games at 92 than, like, I don't know where I parked

my car today, but I can remember that fourth down, Gary Clark, Eric Allen's way. I say that all the time. I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, but for whatever reason, I can remember, and I'll hit you with this one, because it's one of my all-time favorite revenge games in Skin's history, is the 1990 playoff game at the vet and the wild card round. After, you know, a month and a half after the body bag game on Monday night football, and that was Buddy's last game, and he left the, he basically left the field early, didn't even look for Gibbs. As, you know, as, We've had some satisfying wins going back to that era as Skins fans. That one is the number one for me revenge game.

We did this segment years ago on radio. That game and probably the Dallas championship game in 82 because they had lost to the Cowboys in the regular season. But that game in particular to go to the vet a month and a half after Philly had rubbed our noses in it on Monday night football. I mean, we had Brian Mitchell playing quarterback. at the end of that game because there were so many, you know, bodies taken off the field that night. And to go in there and win when really it felt like nobody in Philadelphia thought

Washington would win that game. And I don't even think Buddy Ryan thought there was a chance he would lose that game. But that was satisfying. Well, I think when Buddy Ryan was coaching in the postseason, there was always a chance that they were going to lose. I don't know how confident Eagles fans were back then. But yeah, that was... Buddy was all class, wasn't he? Oh, my God. But those teams were good.

You know, they were good teams. But anyway, yeah. It would be nice if this is the beginning of something of a run. And the reason I think we might be at the beginning of something is we finally have a quarterback, you know, after all of these years. And I'm curious from your end how you view Washington with Jaden Daniels. yeah i think um everybody here is kind of dazzled by what he's been able to do in this first 10 games or really his first nine games um as a pro and i've never seen i mean dack was really good as a rookie

we've seen some guys who played well as rookies but i've never seen a guy just turn a franchise his fortunes around like like he's done and um yeah i mean it's it's incredibly impressive and what i love about him is he's obviously got the ability to run but he's back there looking at to throw first. And most, you know, most young quarterbacks who are multi-dimensional who can run and throw, they'll go through their first read. If it's not there, they're, they're tucking it in and taking off. And he's just, he's running through his progressions. He's so accurate on the beat ball. I mean, you know, Zach Ertz is one of our favorite guys that we've ever had here. And I was listening to an interview with him talking about Jane

Daniels of what a class act he is and just how he's just reversed the fortunes of a franchise that's been, gosh, I mean, you guys have been looking for a quarterback for three decades. So, you know, we thought it was RG3 there for a little bit, but it's really, it's really impressive what he's done. And, you know, it just shows you how if you have a quarterback, you have a chance. And if you don't, you really don't have a chance. And that one decision can mean so much. And I think, you know, Jalen Hertz isn't going anywhere. Jane Daniels isn't going anywhere.

So, yeah, I would expect that these two teams are going to be good for the near future. You know, one of the comps for him, before the draft, after the draft, even at times this year, has been Randall Cunningham. Actually, Michael Vick, another comp. Do you comp him to either one of those two players? Well, you know, Randall didn't even start until, like, his fourth year. You know, Roger Worski was starting. He was coming in on third down. Right.

You know, Michael Vick started early, but he didn't really, he didn't really become a, gosh, he didn't become a quarterback, really a pass. until he got here, which was well until you know, 30. Talent-wise, yeah. I mean, Michael's arm was, I've just never seen anything like it. I'll never forget his first day at Eagles practice after he was released from house arrest and got cleared to join the team. And he's been jailed for two years, and he's standing on the 10-yard line just plicking his left wrist. And the ball is like rocketing 70 yards.

Jade Daniels can do the same thing. And so there's a little bit of both of them in Jayden Dan's. But what kind of sets him apart is just how quickly he's doing it. I mean, right from week one, he looked like a polished pro. And I'm talking to Kobe Dean, you of a linebacker about Jane Daniels yesterday. And he said, we don't look at him as a rookie. He's not a rookie. You watch a play.

This guy is a vet. And you can't go into it thinking, we're playing a rookie. quarterback because I don't think anybody looks at them that way. Eagles have had an interesting season. They're seven and two. They've won five in a row. There was controversy or turmoil or certainly a lot of discussion maybe outside of Philadelphia after the Browns game with Siriani, after the Bucks game in which you guys weren't healthy in that game. After giving up that last drive in the second game of the year to the Falcons after Barclay dropped that ball. I mean, describe their season to somebody who hasn't seen it.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, those first two losses were really, really bad. Their home opener, Sequin drops the ball. All they have to do is catch and take a knee, and the game's over. They run out the clock, and then the defense has to go back there, and they lose on a Monday night to the Falcons, and then they were down 26-nuffin-to-the-bucks before they had one net yard from scrimid. So there was some, you know, and then barely beat the Browns, and,

And Nick has his little thing on the sideline. But the thing is, whatever people on the outside say about Nick, his players just love this guy. And he gets him to play hard, and he gets him to believe in themselves. And he's not a great play caller. He never has been. Brian Johnson is down there now called the plays last year. But he just has that ability to get guys to play hard and believe in themselves.

And really, that's a really huge thing for a coach. That's what he does well. He set the culture where players get the best out of themselves, and that's what we're seeing. There was so much change on this team. You look at the first month, and they had two new coordinators, two new coaching staffs on each side of the ball, seven new defensive starters.

So there was just so much new, new systems, new schemes, and it just took a little while. And everybody on this team used the by week as they took it to heart. We're not very good right now. they were all in the building, and a lot of guys like to go home during the biweek, but just about everybody stayed in the building and worked on what they needed to work on, and they haven't lost since. So it's been impressive seeing

the way they've played. I think on the outside, it always looked a lot worse than it did on the inside because it's a group of guys that they're really talented, first of all, and they believe in what they're doing. So it's been interesting turnaround. That said, that's really beaten anybody during the five-game winning show. week. I mean, at Cincinnati was a nice win, but they haven't been a winning team since opening day with the Packers. So that's the challenge now, and that's why I think tomorrow night is such an intriguing matchup. How much angst is there from fans and media members just about some of the

in-game management decisions that he makes? I mean, the Jags game was a bit of a disaster early. There were, you know, questionable fourth downs in the Saints game. You know, them all. I haven't watched all their games, but is there a concern that he takes points off the board sometimes unnecessarily? Yeah, it was really a Jaguars game, and he started chasing points. It's funny because there was a penalty on Jacksonville. He took a PAT off the board. You know, you get the ball, you know, a lot closer, and they got stopped. Now, if the Jags didn't commit that penalty now, you know, you're up 14-0 instead of, you know, and then they kept going.

They kept doing it and doing it and doing it. And then they, you know, took a fourth and inches, ran a really slow developing pass play that didn't. So it wasn't for that penalty on Jacksonville. None of that would have happened. You can't chase points against a bad team. And I think, he knows that. I think for the most part, he's left that stuff up to Kellanmore, who's really good at it.

But, yeah, they were lucky to escape Jacksonville with that. win, NCOBY Dean with the interception, the end zone with a minute left. But yeah, there's angst about it. And, you know, he's at his best when he stays out of those things. And, you know, sometimes the analytics, they go by that a little too much. I mean, I think we're both kind of old school. And I think there's room for, look, the analytics say this, but let's think about this here and what really makes sense. So, you know, it hasn't been a problem other than that one game. but yeah, almost cost them big time. Actually, you know, the first one's the difficult one,

but I didn't realize that there was a penalty and that they had half the distance to the goal. So sometimes a lot of coaches now are just saying, well, this is, you know, a much better opportunity to convert on the two. I didn't even realize that. Yeah, they've been almost unstoppable with, you know, short yard is with jail. And so it did make some sense.

All right. So the team is different. You know, you've already mentioned the two, coordinators, Fangio, and more. But the team's different, too. The impact of Saquan Barclay on this team has been what? Yeah, I mean, he's been their offensive MVP. I mean, he's been unbelievable.

And, you know, he's a guy that never, I think he had one winning season with the John. He had one season where he won more than six games with the Giants. He's already won seven in half a season with the Eagles. He's meant everything. I mean, it's a demand. Jondre Swift was really good last year, and Miles Sanders before that. but he's just next dimension.

And the thing is when you have A.J. Brown and Devante Smith and Sequant, now you have three, like, superstar levels skill guys. And that makes it really tough for defensive coordinators because, you know, whose name is circling first? And he never had that. You know, he only had one offensive teammate who made a Pro Bowl in his six years with the Giants. That was Evan Ingram one year.

So now he's just surrounded by talent and a, a winning culture. So it's brought out the best in him, and he plays the game so hard. You worry about him staying healthy, but they're able to limit him, litemous touches in some of these games that they've had big leads. But, yeah, he's been amazing, and he's going to break all of Sean McCoy's franchise records if he stays healthy. You guys get healthy or tomorrow night along the offensive line.

Jordan Milata's back? Yes, he should be back and left tackle. Fred Johnson did a nice job in there for four games, but Jordan Malata might be the best left tackle. I believe he's the best left tackle in football. And he was playing lights out when he got hurt. So to go four and out of him was really, and scoring 30 points a game was huge. But with him, their O-line is really, really good. And so Cam Juergens for Jason Kelsey, what's the difference, Ben, if at all?

Yeah, Cam's had a little bit of an uneven season. and he's been up and down. He's dealing with a wrist right now. His last two games have been a little shaky. I think that's why he saw them struggle with the brotherly shove a little bit. He just hasn't been able to get the push. Look, Jason Kelly is a Hall of Famer. And it's a tough thing to follow a guy like that.

It's not easy. He's been okay. I think a little disappointing with his consistency, but, you know, he's a good player. I think when he's healthy, he'll probably play a little better. Where's the weakness defensively if they have one? They don't.

And that's really, for me, that's the big story with this. I was just writing about it. They have so many new pieces, and it's come together so fast. These two rookie cornerbacks, first time the Eagles had two starting defensive backs who are rookie since 1973. So, you know, half a century we're talking about here. So Quingham Mitchell and Cooper DeGene, their first two picks have been

unbelievable. They've been incredible, and they bring back back Tronty Gardner Johnson. Slay's been banged up, and Isaiah Rogers has been in there a corner who wasn't even in the league last year. It was suspended. So,

the secondary has been just incredible. They're giving up, like, during the winning street, they're lying like 148 passing yards a game. Now, that's against Cooper Rush and Daniel Jones and Deshawn Watson, so they haven't faced a guy like James

in quite a while. But, This secondary has been the biggest surprise on the team, and that's why I think this matchup is so intriguing because he got a big-time passer against a secondary that's been playing really, really well. It's going to be great action. How good is Zach Bond been? Oh, my goodness. I mean, he's been their MVP. He just got named the defensive player of the week.

It's really an amazing story. He's playing a position. He's never played before. And he was with the Saints playing. He's like a backup edge rusher and special teamer. and Vic Fangio watched film of him and said, you know, there was like a handful of snaps where he played, he played inside Linebacker.

And Vic, from those snaps, projected that he could do it full time. So they signed up to like a minimum wage deal. First Dave OTAs is out there at Linebacker. We're looking at each other like, what's he doing out there? Like, why is he playing Linebacker? And now here he is. I mean, he's such a playmaker. He's instinctive.

He's fast, sideline, a sideline. He's always around the ball, smart, physical, tough, great tackler. They haven't had a liebacker play like this since, I guess, since Jeremiah Trotter the first time around before he went down there and snuck it up. So he's been just a fine, and they've got to get him signed to buy. It's a one-year deal. And his price keeps going up. So if I'm Harry Roseman, I'm getting him signed to a multi-year deal as soon as possible

before he's too expensive. Yeah, I think Trotter went back to Philadelphia after being here and sucking and played great. Made two more Pro Bowls. And that was some place for the Eagles. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Typical Snyder stuff down here for all of those years. All right, last one. Keys from your standpoint, Philly standpoint, to win the game tomorrow night against Washington.

Yeah, I think, you know, for me, it's their ability to run the ball and run the clock and keep moving the sticks and keep Jane Gales off the field. And that's been a good formula for the Eagles. They've been, gosh, during the five-game winning street, they're averaging close to 190 rushing yards a game. So I think they feel like they can run against anybody, against a stack box, against any kind of front with Saquan and gain well. And, you know, and then take their shots.

I mean, over the last five games, they've been running it twice as much as they've thrown in. Like, nobody wins that way anymore in the NFL. but it's a formula that's worked for them. And when they take their shots, passing the ball, Jalen's been really efficient, been really good the last five, six weeks. So to me,

their ability to run the ball is going to be the number one key on Thursday night. Do you have a prediction? Yeah, I've got to do that. I've got to get that in. I think I'm going to probably go Eagles just based on being home.

I think they have a little advantage because they got to rest their guys. Short weeks are so hard. They had all the starters out of there at the beginning of the fourth quarter down in Dallas while, you know, watching it had a real tough game. By the way, that spot was ridiculous.

I mean, I don't know what guys down there are saying, but we were watching that game, and I mean, Zacherts had the first down, didn't he? I mean, what was that? I thought he did. I mean, he wasn't... That was ridiculous. You know, he wasn't touched technically until maybe the ball was, you know, behind the line to game, but no,

we all thought it was in the moment. Most people did, but they played, they played well, and Pittsburgh's actually, I think, much better this year than they've been. Yeah, they're good. That was a fun game. I'm going to pick the Eagles this time, and we'll see what happens. Obviously, whoever sweep, if somebody sweeps, they're winning in the division. If they split, it's just going to come down to the wires.

It could be a lot of fun. But I'm just glad there's a new rivalry in the NFC East because it's a long time coming. Yeah. Appreciate it. Ruben, as always, always enjoy it. You got it anytime, Kevin. Ruben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia. That's a wrap for today.

Back tomorrow game day with Tommy. Pat Summerall here with John Madden. And John, as I said, playoff atmosphere surrounds us. Both teams have had their share of the distractions during the week. All that's put behind them. What do you think they have to accomplish to win today? Well, you really can't beat today. I mean, this is really what football is all about.

A meaningful game in December. I think it boils down to the quarterbacks. I think that the Redskins have gotten here this year, mostly with defense. I think today they need this guy, Mark Griffin. Now, the Eagles know that they want to get after him quickly. They want to knock them down, and they want to keep them out of rhythm. On the other side, I think Randall Cunningham has to do it for the Philadelphia Eagles. I think he has to have a big day. Now, one of the Redskins are going to do about Cunningham is just the opposite. They don't want to rush him. They don't want to give him lanes. They want to form a pocket

around him, keep him in the pocket, make them pass in the pocket. Don't let him run. or run and throw? 15 games between these two and one point difference in total points and listen to this crowd in December