The Kevin Sheehan Show - Madden + Start Kyle!

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

Kevin talks John Madden to start and then also at the end of the show with local TV legend, Ernie Baur. In between, Kevin on why any conversation about Ron Rivera being fired is absurd and why he thinks Kyle Allen should start against the Eagles.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. And John, your final thoughts about today and about the season for these two. Well, it's just my final thoughts are really about being here at RFK. And like I said earlier, there's no place that I would rather be than right here in RFK Stadium today. Because there were so many great moments here.

and the moments that we've been together over the years and games. And it wasn't just one play or one group or one guy. It was a combination to me the memories of all the fans, you know, and how great they were and how this whole place would shake and jump. And the fight song and the hogs and Rigo and players and close games. And Joe Jacoby going against Lawrence Taylor and the great battles in Joe Feisman. And, you know, I mean, all the players and things that happened here, and you just kind of collect them all and put them right in here and say,

Doug, this was pretty good. John Madden loved the Washington Redskins of the 1980s and 1990s. That was, we played it last week, actually. That was John Madden at the end of the final game at RFK Stadium in December of 1996. We remembered that game, the 25-year anniversary of the final game at RFK last week, and I think I played that exact soundbite from Madden. He loved everything about this team in this city. He loved the Hogs.

He loved Joe Jacoby. He loved Rigo. He loved Dexter. He loved Darrell Green. He loved RFK Stadium. He was, along with Pat Summerall, and we have said this recently about someone else. but he was the soundtrack of Washington's glory years. The glory years of the NFC East, being a part of CBS's, you know, NFC package meant that he called every big game that Washington had,

that wasn't a Monday night or a Sunday night game on another network. We said this recently about the passing of Sam Huff, that Sam, Frank, and Sonny were really the soundtrack for the glory years. Well, they were on radio. But Madden and Summerall, and it's very hard for me to separate the two. And I understand the difference. Madden's impact on the game from an economic standpoint may be as great as any non-player in the history of the game. But I always think of the two together, Summerall and Madden together, you know, at RFK Stadium or in the Meadowlands or at Texas Stadium, you know, or at the vet calling the biggest games of that. era between the NFC East teams, not just the NFC East teams, but games involving NFC East teams and the 49ers, NFC East teams and the Bears. You know, it was really cowboys, redskins,

giants, 49ers, bears, you know, in the 80s, in particular, into the early 90s. And those guys were there for all of those games. They were an incredible pairing. And for some of you old enough to remember the NFL in the 1970s. They replaced another, you know, iconic pairing, Summerall and Brookshire. But Summerall and Madden, so much more for me anyway, than Madden and Al Michaels on Monday night football and then eventually on Sunday night football on NBC.

It's the Summerall Madden pairing that was the soundtrack of Washington's glory years. And he and Joe Gibbs were friends. He and Joe Gibbs worked together, under Don Correel at San Diego State. They knew each other. They were both part of the Don Correel coaching tree. Madden said that Don Correel was his greatest football influence.

Joe Gibbs has said the same thing. Anybody that came out of that Don Correel system said the same thing about Coriel. But it was certainly surprising yesterday. They said that his death was unexpected. I have not seen the documentary on Madden that aired on Christmas Day. Many of you probably have, and it's apparently great. It's obviously now very much on my list to watch. But I wanted to share some stories about Madden that were written in a story that was republished yesterday on ESPN.com after Madden's passing.

There were incredible stories. I had not read this when it originally was written. posted back in April. It was written by Ryan Hawkinsmith, and it's basically just a series of Madden stories, and many of them I had never heard before. So I'm going to read some of those for you here in a moment. Ernie Bauer is going to join us on the show today. Ernie, a legendary television broadcasting executive, director, producer. Most of you know who Ernie is. Ernie also during the 80s and 90s into the early 2000s worked at CBS and Fox as part of their NFL broadcasts.

Ernie was orange sleeves, the guy that would be on the field telling the referees when they had to break for a television timeout and he knew Madden. And he was there for the early years of Madden at CBS. So Ernie will join us a little bit later on on the podcast today and we'll get his stories of Madden. Before I get to reading some of the stories that were written on ESPN.com

that I think many of you perhaps like me did not know. Maybe you did. I didn't know some of these. I did want to just mention that for some of us, John Madden, first of all, was a phenomenal coach of the Oakland Raiders in the 1970s. The 1970s for me as a kid, I was a child of the 70s,

this is when football became everything. You know, it was, you know, it was an incredible era. It was really the era in which the NFL overtook baseball as America's pastime, as America's favorite sport. You know, the 70s were when, you know, football became a staple on television, became part of, you know, popular culture beyond just sports. And the teams of those 70s, you know, in the NFC, obviously, America's team with the Cowboys and their rivalry with George Allen and the skins and the purple people leaders in Minnesota and the fearsome force them in L.A. And then L.A. in the 70s also with, you know, some of the quarterbacks, including James Harris, one of the first African-American

quarterbacks to play in the NFL. And, you know, all of those great teams in the NFC. And then in the AFC, it was the Dolphins and the Raiders and the Steelers who became a dynasty in the 70s. The chiefs in the rivalry they had with the Raiders and the Raiders and the rivalry that they had with the Steelers, you know, meeting in the playoffs as many times as they did. But John Madden was the coach of the bad boy Oakland Raiders. He became coach at a young age. Many of you know this at 32 years old and only coached for 10 years. But my God, what a 10 year run as a head coach. He's got the all-time regular season winning percentage of 750. He was 103, 32, and 7. He only had two seasons in which his team didn't make the postseason. And in those seasons, he was 8, 4, and 2, and 9 in 7. He's part of some of the

greatest games in NFL history, games with labels, the immaculate reception. He was on the other side, on the Oakland Raiders side, when Bradshaw threw it down the middle of the field and Frenchie Fuku had, you know, collided with Jack Tatum and the ball ended up in Franco Harris's hands. He was on the right side of the Sea of Hands game, the 74 divisional playoff game in Oakland against Miami. We're on the final play of the game or the last fourth down opportunity. Stablers falling to the ground and launches it straight up into the air and somehow Clarence Davis comes down with the catch to beat the Dolphins 2826. He was part of the Ghost to the Post game, a Christmas Eve, 1977 playoff game in Baltimore at Memorial Stadium,

double overtime, 3731. Raiders win at Stabler to Dave Casper in the second overtime. He was part of a regular season game, which changed a rule. The Holy Roller game, Stabler falls forward, fumbles forward. On the final play of the game, the ball gets kicked around, and it's landed on in the end zone by the Raiders after they fumbled it forward multiple times to beat the Chargers. You now have a last two minute, you can't advance a fumble as an offensive team. A fourth down can't advance a fumble on a fourth down rule. That all came from the Holy Roller game. He lost five championship games, the AFL championship game to the Chiefs,

the AFC championship game to the Colts and then to the Dolphins and then to the Steelers twice. before he finally beat the Steelers in 76 and won the Super Bowl over the Vikings in 1976 with that great team. One of the great Super Bowl teams of all time, the 1976 Oakland Raiders, with Stabler and with Cliff Branch and with Bolitnikoff and that incredible defense, they destroyed the Steelers in the AFC title game and then destroyed the Vikings in the Super Bowl 32 to 14. That was an incredible NFL run.

They were 13 and 1 during the regular season as well. I will tell you this about those 1976 playoffs, though, now that I think about it, they beat the Patriots in a divisional round game 24-21 on a very controversial roughing the passer penalty against the Patriots. They would have won that game without that call in that game. anyway, that was a great Super Bowl team, 13 and 1, and they completely outclassed Minnesota in the Super Bowl. But what a coach John Madden was. And then the broadcasting career. And that leads me to just a couple of stories here written by this guy, Ryan Hawkinsmith on ESPN.com,

originally published in April and republished or reposted yesterday. Here are a couple of stories that I never knew. I'll start with this one. He writes, right before his first broadcast ever, Madden was perplexed at a production meeting when the crew laid out the schedule leading up to the game. When do we go to watch the team's practice, he said.

Producers explain that TV broadcast teams don't really go to practice. Why not, Madden said. I'm going to be talking about these guys for three hours. I want to see them up close. Again, the CBS production team said, well, that's not how it works. NFL teams and production crews don't meet. We don't get, you know, the coaches film. We don't get to meet with the coaches and have conversations.

But we do get to meet with their PR teams who will tell us all, you know, about the teams that we're going to broadcast. That should work out, right, John? And he said, nope, I'll talk to the coaches. From that day forward, Madden's broadcast teams went to practice, spoke directly with players and coaches, and were given the same film that coaching staffs used. Within six months, it became standard practice for TV crews, and that practice still exists today. The television broadcast crews have access that no one else has.

You know, I've mentioned this before, that if you really want, you know, sometimes the best insight, it is to listen to the television crew call the game, because they meet with the coaches, the quarterback, and some other key people in a setting that is far different than any other interview because the coaches know they can tell them some things knowing that it won't be used until the game's actually going on. And it helps them with their broadcast. Madden started all of that. I didn't know that.

What I really didn't know is this. Here's this next story. In the mid-1990s, Fox was in the middle of a pre-production meeting. Madden was on the telestrilege. showing the crew how he planned to break down a particular play before kickoff. He drew all over the field, mapping out what individual guys had to do on the play, and he slapped on a line where the first down was located. And he said, why can't we just keep a first down line on the screen the whole game?

Everybody shrugged their shoulders. Somebody said it would be too distracting. Somebody else said the technology wouldn't allow for it. And Madden just said, you're wrong. We should do it. The producers in the room started to wonder whether or not Madden was on to something. Fox Sports CEO Eric Shanks, who was a longtime Madden crew producer, was in the room that day when Madden said what he said. And Shanks said this recently, or back in April, he said, quote,

The Yellow Line, marking the first down, is a direct descendant of that moment when John said, you're wrong, we should do this, we should keep this on the screen the whole game. I never knew that. I never knew that Madden was the inspiration for that. The story of EA sports and the Madden game is really an incredible story. It's the most successful sports video game of all time. I'll shorten this story because it's a rather, a long story, but the CEO or the founder of EA Sports, his name was Tripp Hawkins, wanted to meet with Madden about Madden becoming the face of their new football, NFL football

video game. This was in 1984. Madden, who we all know didn't fly, said, you can meet with me from December 16th to December 18th on an Amtrak train. I'll be on it for three days, meet me in Denver, and you can ride west with me. Madden and Trip Hawkins and a couple of his developers met. Hawkins warned Madden at the time that the technology wasn't there for an 11-on-11 football video game. He said, we can do seven-on-seven. And Madden said, no, we're not doing seven-on-seven.

You tell me when you can fit 11-on-11, and then I'll do the game. and he said, well, it could take years. And Madden said, quote, well, then it will take years. Closed quote. Madden didn't think anybody was going to play a game that wasn't real football. And he was right. By the way, it took two more years for EA sports to develop what would become the Madden NFL video game. You know, a game that has probably made John, you know, at the time of his death,

I would imagine he's worth hundreds of millions of. millions of dollars. Most of his net worth, I'm sure, comes from that game. Here's another story that I wanted to read for you. Right before Super Bowl 21 in 1987, between the Broncos and the Giants, producer Michael Frank was in charge of getting tape of both teams. So he got the broadcasts of both conference title games. Big mistake. Madden was furious. He only wanted the coaches film. somebody got a hold of the NFC titled game tape so they just needed the aFC tape Frank was handed the unenviable task of going to the Giants team hotel to get a copy of the tape that New York coaches were using to scalp the Broncos when he got there he was ushered into

a conference room after a few minutes he heard footsteps and in walked bill parcels and parcels looked at this guy Michael Frank in saying quote, you really screwed up, didn't you, huh? Close quote. Frank said, yeah, but he said, I just need a copy of the coaches film that you guys have on the Broncos. Parcell's side and said, we only have one copy left, and he just sat there and stared at Frank for a very awkward five seconds. And then Parcell said, you know what, I'll do anything for John. Take this. Parcells had given them their only copy of the Broncos that they were using to scout the Broncos. The reason Parcells did it, it was explained, is that when Parcells was seven games below

500 in his first two years in New York, Madden consistently on the air spoke up saying Parcells is going to be a really good coach. You need to give him time. And Parcells credited Madden Madden, you know, for publicly backing him and defending him for essentially keeping the temperature down in New York and keeping his seat not as warm as maybe it would have been. That was an interesting story. Here's another one. So in the mid-1980s, Madden was constantly getting assignments for NFC East games. So he decided to get an apartment in New York City. Maddo. Madden, was doing almost every NFC East game. Every Sunday there was a four, you know, a four o'clock window NFC East matchup,

or, you know, it was Dallas, San Francisco, or Washington, San Francisco, or Washington, Chicago, or Chicago, San Francisco, whatever. It was an NFC East team. So he got an apartment in New York City. He settled on the Dakota in Manhattan, the Dakota famous for where John Lennon lived. He bought Gilda Radner's old apartment at the Dakota. Within a few years, without even trying, Madden became the complex's mascot. The Madden Cruiser would pull up out front and singer Roberta Flack, who I think is from D.C., would hustle out to get on board for a few minutes.

Sometimes Madden would hang out in the courtyard and go through his notes, and on more than one occasion, Fox crew members would show up to meet with Madden, and he'd be sitting with a friend and her son. The woman would always say hello and excuse herself. And then when this woman with her son sitting with Madden on the Madden cruiser got up and left, people would look at it and say, oh, that's Yoko Ono with John Lennon's son, Sean. And they'd head back to their apartment so Madden could get back to work. Madden would be hanging out on its cruiser with Yoko Ono and John Lennon's son, Sean. son, Sean Lennon.

Here's another story about Madden and his cruiser. One morning Madden and his agent, Sandy Montag, were having breakfast in the lobby of the Ritz Carlton in Chicago. As they ate, a man rolled up to their table. He had a thick British accent and

mentioned to Madden that in the UK they usually were limited to one NFL broadcast per week and it rotated between the networks. And this British fellow said, quote, I only watch the games you do, John. Closed quote. Madden used to fans approaching him in public,

thanked the man, and waved goodbye to him. The guy had big glasses and a big attitude, Madden remarked, after the guy was out of earshot. Montag, his agent, had a funny look on his face. The man that had just given John a compliment was Elton John. and Madden had no idea. God, there's a great story about 9-11, and I'll just shorten it for you. But Peggy Fleming, the skating star of the 1968 Olympics, I believe,

in an American sweetheart for decades. Peggy Fleming was giving a speech in Wilkes-Barrellvania on the the morning of September 11, 2001, when news broke of the terrorist attacks. She finished giving her speech on breast cancer awareness, and then she reached out to her agent at IMG who told her, there's no way she's going to get back home, which was California anytime soon. You know, air travel obviously had been ground to a halt. She stayed in her hotel in Wilkeshire, Pennsylvania,

for five days, and then her agent called her with a surprise. John Madden, who was also an IMG client, was on his way to California, and he was in New York and he was going to swing by and pick up Peggy Fleming in Pennsylvania. She jumped, as the cruiser pulled up on September 17, 2001, Fleming was sitting there with her luggage in the street with her thumb up like she was a hitchhiker. The doors flew open. Madden swung his head out and said, get in.

For the next 52 hours, they watched together all of the coverage of the terrorist attacks. And they talked a lot and became fast friends. There's lots of stories about the friendship that they developed, you know, in the

wake of 9-11 on Madden's cruiser driving cross-country. She said that She wanted to earn her way on the trip. And at one point, Madden said, all right, we do a weekly radio show from the cruiser. As I'm doing this, we're going to get out and do it in Nebraska, but we like to scrub the windows when we make a stop. Will you help out?

And she did. She got out and she was scrubbing away. When they got to Omaha, Madden and Fleming grabbed a bite to eat and hit some local shops. Fleming mentioned that she was. loving the current state of her hair and wish she had something to cover it up, Madden said, Peggy, let me buy you a hat. So she picked out a black felt cowboy hat. Madden insisted on I'm paying for it, and she wore it the rest of the way, and she still has it to this day. They hung out for those 52 hours. He dropped her off at her house in Northern California.

they hung out with her husband and Peggy Fleming for an hour or two, excuse me, and then he was on his way. There's so many stories that are so good. The story of the Turduckin and how that came about on Thanksgiving is told. Oh, here's one. This one, and this will be the last one I read. A common theme among Madden's friends is how good. good he has always been at reading people. He's like Sherlock Holmes, the way he could look at

somebody and perfectly dissect everything about them, says David Hill, who hired Madden at Fox. One time Madden leaned over and whispered into his producer Eric Shanks's ear, don't do business with that guy you were just talking to. Why? asked Shanks, who invented the Red Zone channel as an executive VP at DirecTV before becoming Fox Sports CEO. in 2010. Madden said his shoelaces aren't tied right. He's not paying enough attention to something that could really trip him up. He cuts corners, closed quote. To this day before Shanks makes a deal, he likes to take a quick look at shoelaces first. There are a lot of other really good stories here. But anyway, I thought I'd just share a couple of them with you about Madden. Anyway, that's it on him.

rest in peace, John Madden. What an impact he had on all of us who were diehard NFL fans. And really, I think for certain fan bases, he really was the guy that called all of the big games. And he did that for our franchise here in Washington for sure. All right. Up next, a couple of thoughts on Ron Rivera and what they should do at quarterback this weekend. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. answers. Joe Gibbs was smiling. He's been more relaxed and enjoyed this Super Bowl more than any time I've

seen him. Somebody asked him what he wanted to do and he said he wanted to run a marathon and build a house, win a Super Bowl. What else did he say? I don't know. You wonder how long that he's going to be in this. That was Madden at the end of Super Bowl 26 in Minneapolis, talking about Joe Gibbs. And you could hear, and I think I've mentioned this before and maybe even played this before. I think John, who was good friends with Gibbs, I think he knew leading up to that Super Bowl that Gibbs was tiring. You know, the reason for John Madden's 10-year coaching career is he cited burnout, that he was burnt out after 10 years.

You know, a successful coach, as successful as Madden was, you know, 10 years is a pretty short stint. And I think he sensed the same in Gibbs, who at that point, you know, in the 1991 season was in his 11th season, right, his head coach. And you could kind of sense that maybe Madden knew that Gibbs was thinking about hanging it up. Now, he did not hang it up after that season when they beat the bills in that Super Bowl, Super Bowl 26. He hung it up after the following season. and Gibbs was having some health issues, which was one of the reasons he got out when he got out.

I think he also saw the way the game was changing with free agency and his salary cap and where they were at the moment that he retired in March of 1993 and that it was going to be a struggle with the salary cap and some of the older players and some of the inflated salaries that they had to turn it around quickly. But you got that sense there from that madden sound that maybe he knew,

Gibbs was, you know, nearing the end of his coaching career. By the way, one quick Madden story, a personal Madden story, because it has to do with that January 1992 Super Bowl, Super Bowl 26 in Minneapolis. I was at that Super Bowl, and I had gotten in on a Friday, and we were at our hotel in downtown Minneapolis. and Mike and the Mad Dog, the gold standard for sports talk radio, Mike Francesa and Chris Mad Dog Russo, who were, you know, a pair for years at WFAN in New York. They were doing their show, their Super Bowl show, live from the lobby of this hotel that I was staying in.

And I was a fan of theirs. And I remember walking in going, whoa, Mike and the Mad Dog are doing their show here. I was not in broadcasting at the time. And so I ended up standing with literally hundreds of people, especially when John Madden came on the show with them. They had Madden on the show. Madden was going to be calling the Super Bowl with Summerall. Madden and Summerall called two of Washington's Super Bowl games. The Super Bowl 18 game in Tampa against the Raiders was a CBS game, and then the Super Bowl against the Bills was a CBS game. The other Super Bowls, the win over Miami was an NBC game.

The win over Denver was actually an ABC Super Bowl. So of the four Super Bowls that Gibbs coached them to, they won three of them. Madden and Summerall had the loss in Tampa and then had the win in Buffalo. But anyway, Madden joined Mike and the Mad Dog on their show. And I'll never forget standing there with, I think, hundreds of people, certainly in the lobby, who were listening to the show. and then when Madden joined it, they were, you know, of course going to listen to it. And Madden was asked at the end of that interview, well, who do you like in the game?

And he said, and I'm paraphrasing, but I'll never forget this. Washington, by the way, was a seven-point favorite in Super Bowl 26. They were, you know, they had had the great regular season during 1991, but the bills were really good, too, in 1991. And remember, they had lost the Super Bowl the year before to the Giants. The bills were really highly respected. I mean, the bills had gone 13 and 3. Washington had gone 14 and 2. The bills were the second highest scoring team behind Washington with, you know,

Jim Kelly and the K-gun. And that Super Bowl game against Buffalo, Washington was a seven-point favorite, but a lot of people were surprised that Washington was favored by so much. that would have been a smell test special because a lot of people liked Buffalo in that game. Well, Madden, I'll never forget this. Madden said, well, you know, I've spent a lot of time with both teams, and I really think Washington's going to play well on Sunday.

And, you know, I really think Washington's the superior team. I'm not even sure it'll be a close game. Madden, who is calling the game, and a lot of these guys don't get into the prediction business when they're calling the games. And he didn't have a final score prediction. He just had a sense that Washington was dialed in and that they were the better team.

And he was right. You know, they dominated Buffalo in that Super Bowl. 37, 24 was the final score. But at one point, it was 37 to 10. At one point, it was 24 to nothing. At halftime, it was 17-0 in that game. But anyway, you know, also real quickly, you know, Ron Rivera, I have him on the radio show once a week,

and Ron Rivera has referred to John Madden as a tremendous mentor of his. And Rivera tweeted out last night. Coach John Madden was an NFL icon who played coached and gave his name to a video game. But to me, he offered his time, wisdom, and coaching, and insight. I was truly blessed to have him as a mentor. And I remember, I think the contact of of him referencing John Madden was he was having some struggles in Carolina

and he had had a conversation with Madden and Madden essentially said and he told him you know you've just got to start doing things the way you want to do them. You've got to go with your

your gut on a lot of this stuff and Rivera told me that day when he was referencing Madden and I think he's told it to other people as well. He said that really had an impact on him, and he started to be more aggressive in his decision-making. In many ways, maybe that was the birth of Riverboat Ron. But anyway, John Madden, more on him.

So I had a couple of thoughts, but before I get to those, as I'm doing the podcast, they've begun preparation for, the Eagles game on Sunday, and I'm just watching various people tweet things out about practice. Sam Cosmy isn't practicing. Jackson's still not practicing. Antonio Gibson's on a side field, so is West Schweitzer and Benjamin St. Juice, both of whom were on I are, by the way. But then there's this story. Montez Sweat was out of practice. And as it turns out, Montez Sweat's brother was killed near Richmond, Virginia.

in a shooting on Tuesday evening, yesterday evening. The shooting took place after 4 p.m. And the brother of Montez Sweat, Anthony Sweat, 27 years old, killed in the shooting. So unbelievable tragedy for Montez Sweat this, you know, this Wednesday last night and this Wednesday. So sad. I don't know in the details of what was involved in the shooting I have not seen yet. But for a second straight week, you know, a key Washington player is involved in tragedy. Montez not involved in the tragedy. His brother, though, killed. And last week, of course, Deshaeser Everett involved in an accident that ended up killing his 29-year-old female passenger.

Anyway, so there are two things that I wanted to discuss in this segment, and I won't be long in either one of them. The first thing is this. There's a lot of discussion I've noticed about Ron Rivera in the wake of a 56 to 14 loss to the Cowboys on Sunday night. You know, this is kind of what was going on at 2 and 6, too. It's the, you know, the fact that, you know, he's only got a certain number of winning seasons in the, you know, many years. he's coached and, you know, he brought all of the, you know, his loser coaches from Carolina up north. And, you know, what did we get with Ron Rivera? You people have to stop that. Ron Rivera, A, isn't going anywhere.

And B, Ron Rivera shouldn't go anywhere. He signed a five-year contract. He took over a franchise in total disrepair. I mean, this was a tear down. We all know that. I'm not talking about the organization, the business side, the ownership. That's never going to be built into anything that you'd want to live in. I'm talking about the football operation.

You know, that 2019 team was a bad team. You know, he came in and he liked some of the young talent on defense, and they had the number two pick, but this was going to take a while. Last year, nobody was expecting at one in five or two and seven. that they were going to win five of their final seven games and make the postseason. I mean, they wouldn't have in most circumstances, but still a hell of a finish to a seven and nine first year. This year, two and six, nobody would have ever expected them to have been six and six. This is a process.

Some of you don't want to hear about, you know, the rebuilding. And I get it. You know, the NFL is not about rebuilding. It's about retooling. And every year gives you a chance to retool and be competitive. And this year, they try. They tried to trade for Matt Stafford. That was a big swing at the quarterback situation.

And they're going to take more big swings in this offseason. But you guys are insane anybody out there that thinks they should move on from Ron Rivera when this season is over. I mean, you've got to give it more time. Who do you think you're going to get? Seriously. They out kicked their coverage two years ago when he took the job. Ron Rivera stayed. I don't care what happens in these final two games.

I'm giving Ron Rivera at the very least next year, three years. I mean, come on, three years with what he inherited. If you're absolutely convinced and you're ready to move on because you're convinced he's not the right guy, good luck finding somebody. I'm not convinced that he's not the right guy for this situation. I am convinced that if he doesn't get a great quarterback, that it's never going to be great results-wise.

You know, I think there'll be a tough, scrappy, plucky, feisty kind of a team that, you know, if one out of every couple of years, they can win nine, ten games and make the postseason and maybe play in a playoff game with Ron Rivera. You know, but without a quarterback, you know, it doesn't matter who the coach is. I'm giving Ron Rivera one more year. The last thing is this.

the comments that he made the other day about the quarterback situation, when he said, you know, first of all, commented critically about Taylor Heineke's performance in the game, you know, saying that, you know, he, I'm looking for the exact quote, he said he got a bit rattled, started throwing off his back leg a couple of times, criticized the throw to Terry McLaren on the first play. And then he was asked about, you know, from Ben Standing, if he was going to make a change of quarterback. And he said, no.

And then he said, but I think we'll play Kyle. You know, will we play Kyle? Probably, but it's not an indictment of Taylor. But we also want to make sure we get a really good look at Kyle. Play Kyle on Sunday. I suggested on Monday as a recap in my recap of the game that, you know, Kyle throws it better. He looks more like a quarterback in the pocket than Taylor does.

But I don't think the results are going to be. be that much different with Kyle Allen. I think they'd still be six and nine if Kyle Allen had started the last 15 games or whatever it's been. But if the coach is thinking about it, do it. If you want to get a better look at Kyle, have him take all of the first team reps and start him Sunday against the Eagles. The results probably aren't going to be that much different than they are with, you know, with Taylor Heineke, but he brought it up and you don't want to wait until, you know, the second quarter and you're down 13 to nothing and Heineke's thrown in interception and then you just put him in or start him in the finale against the Giants if it's a

meaningless game. You know, Kyle Allen hasn't started one game with any kind of meaning or expectations. He took over a one in five team right when he got his first start in New York. one in four, one and five, whatever it was. And then in the second game, after they beat the Cowboys or his third game, he got hurt. And he basically hasn't played since, except, you know, in the moments there at the end of the Dallas game a couple of weeks ago. If you really want to see him and, you know, as he said, we want to make sure we get a really good look at Kyle. We'll give him all the first team reps and start him in a meaningful game on Sunday against the Eagles where you're still mathematically alive for a playoff. a game you have to win to remain alive.

I would do it. I don't know if they're going to do it. And by the time you listen to this podcast, the reporting might be that Taylor Heineke took all of the first team reps and he's going to start Sunday. But he brought it up. And if it's true that he's probably going to play him, don't wait until the Giants game.

20 degrees, half-empty stadium, two bad football teams going nowhere with one foot out the door when the game begins. Play them against Philadelphia Sunday in a game where the Eagles have to have it, and you've got to have it to stay mathematically alive. Ernie Bauer will be my guest right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and MyBooky will match your deposit, dollar for dollar,

all the way up to $1,000. bucks. Deposit $1,000, you'll have $2,000 to gamble with. Deposit 500, you'll have $100,000. You get the point. If there's something already written in the promo code when you go and sign up initially, erase it and write Kevin D.C. With all the football coming up, if you're betting right now, even if you've got a place already, take my bookies free money. They're going to give you double your deposit. You'll have all of that extra money to gamble with, and you'll have a place where you can comparison shop on point spread, on totals, on money lines, on prop bets, on pricing. MyBooky's a fair, safe place to wager. Again, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. at mybooky.orgie.orgie.com.

All right, let's bring in a legend. Ernie Bauer, my friend, for many, many years, Ernie a legendary local television person, long-time director, producer at places like Channel 5 and Comcast Sportsnet and long before that, Channel 9. But Ernie also was a big part of the national telecasts of NFL games on CBS and Fox. For many years, Ernie was the orange sleeves guy, the guy on the sidelines that would tell the referees when, it was time to break for a television commercial. Those guys still exist today. Ernie was a big part of the CBS broadcasts in early years, would travel and do games outside of this town and then did a lot of games here in town.

Ernie joins us right now after John Madden passed away yesterday. And I thought of you and just thought, well, Ernie's got some stories about the old days. working at CBS and probably, you know, some of those early days of John Madden. Back in the day, I was working, you know, Channel 9, and they would use production people from the local affiliate to work at the CBS game. So I started out doing some things, and eventually I was an associate director or an associate producer, and I would travel around the game. So if you watch the documentary that they did on Madden, which was terrific,

they talked about when he first started. He didn't go right into the booth with that summer. He was doing games like Tampa, Atlanta, when they weren't that good in the day, with Gary Bender and various people, and I was on that production crew. So I did games as an AD or associate director or associate producer with games when John Madden was first starting out with CBS.

All right, so let's kind of take it chronologically, because I think, you know, I talked a little bit, in the open about his coaching career, which you and I both remember very much. That's really the early memories for me of the NFL, which was the NFL in the 1970s, when it really started to explode. But when he retired and decided to go into the booth, you were working some of these games when he was on the number two, number three, number four teams before he got elevated to the number one team. The number one team on CBS, and I mentioned this, was Summerall in Brookshire, and they were incredible.

I mean, they were super popular, and they did all of the big games and all of the CBS Super Bowls during the 1970s, or a lot of them, I guess, after Ray Scott. So tell me about your first impression of Madden as a broadcaster, since you were working with some of those crews when he was working with Stockton or Bender or Frank Lieber or Vin Scully or some of the others. well he was out of the ordinary he wasn't the cut and dry cookie cutter kind of uh analyst and i think one of the things that cvests do that they let john madden be john madden um he came in and did some of the um you know off it's very excitable and they just let him ride with that as opposed to try to rein him in and then he would have ideas to the production team i i i i

I'm prejudiced towards the producers and directors, and I think that a lot of his success has to be tied to Bob Stenner and Sandy Grossman, who went along with some of his ideas and also innovated some of the ideas that he came up with. Did you know the – I mean, so he was different, but you've got – you know, this has been one of your talents over your professional career of identifying people who are talented,

and then, you know, mentoring them and working with them, did you think he was a talent and he was going to become the star that he became when you first heard him call a game? No, I didn't. I just thought they were picket guys out, the sort of, you know, who was hot at the time when they came off of either being retired or deciding to stop coaching. And I thought, you know, he was a pretty good guy,

but I didn't see like they did the, you know, the future that he had in broadcasting, I was, you know, just thought, well, you know, nice guy does good job. But I didn't have any idea. Kind of the interesting thing is how he got paired with Summerall. There was a question on whether it was going to be Vince Scully or Pat Summall who would be with Madden, or who he would be with, let me put it that way. Right. And they decided on Pat Summall, and that was a great decision also. Was Summerall happy about it early on? Because he had a great relationship, a great friendship, and a great, you know, chemistry with Tom Brookshire for all those years?

I don't think he was. I don't, I, he was going to let it nurture. He was going to see how it goes, but initially, I don't, you know, you're right. I mean, Pat was a little probably upset, not upset, but he had worked with Tom and tell you and Tom were great friends on and off. They were really great friends off the microphone. Yeah, I mean, they did a lot of drinking together, didn't Yes, yes, they did. Some great sunball stories. The Sun Bowl, what, Summerall and Brookshire are working the Sun Bowl out in El Paso? Yes.

Well, go ahead. Tell us one of those stories. Food flying through the restaurant, things like that. So they enjoyed themselves, so let me put it that way. You mentioned Vin Scully, the great Vin Scully, the longtime voice of the Los Angeles Dodgers. Vince Scully called a lot of big football games for CBS. He actually called the catch Dwight Clark game, if my memory serves me correctly. I was in the orange sleeves on that game. You were the orange sleeves on the catch game.

That was the year that the Niners went to the Super Bowl for the first time, and that was the first Super Bowl that John did with the Niners and the Bengals up in Detroit. Scully did the game. Correct me if I'm wrong with Hank Stram. I think he did. he might have I can't remember that so why why wasn't summerall and madden on that game because I think they might have done the game on Saturday um you know there was two playoff games there was a game whoever well this was the championship game though so it was all yeah the Dallas san francisco game was the championship game yeah I don't know why some wrong John didn't do that

not you say that I don't know because scully didn't do the Super Bowl no it was madden and Summerall. That was the first Super Bowl they did, which was the Cincinnati, San Francisco Super Bowl in Detroit. Right. You know, maybe that was the reason because of the travel. Right. But, you know, you had two weeks. Yeah, that's weird because of all of the NFC title games on CBS in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s, it was always Summerall, you know, with Brookshire and then Summerall and Madden, with the exception of that one year when Vince Scully called the game. Right, but you're right. St. Scully did do that, the catch game, and then Pat and John did the Super Bowl.

That was a little goofy year, but I'm not going to get in the weeds too much of that, but that was a little goofy year. It was the way things are going on behind the scenes with production and stuff. Oh, really? Yeah. By the way, a weird year, too, because San Francisco and Cincinnati came out of nowhere. You know, you had the Cowboys, and you'd had all these. The 49ers, that was the first good year under Walsh.

Right. And then they took off, you know, obviously. after that. All right, so give us some of your, you know, Madden's stories. Well,

one of the things, he got the biggest kick out of me doing Warner Wolf impressions. I would get in his ear sometimes to go, hey, come on, it's a fair pole.

And he would just laugh like crazy, and Bernie, do Warner Wolf, and I would do that. One of the stories, as much to do with me as anything,

was that the bears were playing the Giants in the NFC championship game, I think in New York. And I was on the sidelines, on the bare sidelines as the orange sleeves, and Mike Ditka, and then I think Jeff Fisher was on that staff, were real close to me, and I could hear them, say, you know, 84 trap on two, and I go, and on the head set they go, I think they're going to run a, you know,

a running play up the middle. Well, sure not, they ran a running play up the middle. So then they go 97 screened, left and I go, I'm talking to the AD in the truck, and I go, I think you're going to throw a screen pass to the left, and sure enough, they throw a screen pass to the left. Now the AD's going, I can't even get orange-sleeve to give me time out. You're telling me the plays. He tells Bob Stenner, he says, Ernie's getting the plays. Oh, I don't believe you. Ninety-fourth's screened right. I said, they're going to go to a screen pass to the right. Sure enough, now they call Madden.

And, hey, Ernie's getting the plays. You want him? He said, heck, yeah. I'm getting the plays. Finally, a Bears guy came over and saw me doing it. He almost had me thrown off the sidelines because he didn't know he thought I was working for the Giants. But anyway, so John got a big kick out of that, that I was giving him plays ahead of time. It's almost like, you know, what Tony Romo has been doing, calling the plays before they happened.

So Madden used it for a little bit? Yeah. I mean, there was a famous play. I think the Giants stopped Neil Anderson. and Neil Anderson was running up the middle or something, and I said, you know, I think they're going to run up the middle, and sure nothing. That's pretty funny. I mean, it's interesting that the Chicago sideline figured it out somehow.

Yeah, this trainer guy, well, he saw me leaning in, and I had headsets on. Yeah. And he saw me leaning in because I'm trying to hear, and he came over and ripped the headsets off my head, and he called the referee over during a timeout, asked me to be kicked off the sidelines, and the referee said, I don't worry. I'll stop him.

And I, the guy apologized later, and I apologize to him. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Anyway, you have a John. I also, I was working at Channel 5, and I was armed sleeping for Fox or CBS. So I ended up interviewing John on the Madden Cruiser, you know, before it bears, Washington game. It was a 4 o'clock game, national game.

So I was on the Madden Cruiser with him and did a quick interview that we used. a special at Channel 5. Oh, you did? And so what was that Madden Cruiser like? Obviously, we've heard so many stories about it. And he knew you, so he was comfortable with you, right? Yes, yes. And, again, I knew Bob Stenner and Sandy Grossman and Richie Zions and all the people

that work with him, and he knew me. So he had no problem doing it. And very accommodating. And it was cool. You know, it was a huge bus with a bed and TVs and a little dining area. and it was really kind of a neat experience, especially with him. And he was, again, very accommodating.

He was a real nice guy. He wasn't Greg Garrett, you know, he wasn't, hey, how are you? Kind of thing. He would come out and people would ask for his autograph, and he was very accommodating. He would autograph everybody. He would say something, but he was a little bit, to me, a little bit quiet. You know, there was a really good story that was reissued today on ESPN.com.

It was written in April, and it just was a series of Madden stories that were really good. And I read through several of them in the opening segment. And one of the things that I think was apparent is that, and you kind of alluded to this when Madden first became a broadcaster at CBS, he had a lot of ideas. You know, he wanted to do things differently. one of the things that apparently he initiated was the meetings with coaches and players before the games. Before that, they would meet with the PR people, but Madden insisted on talking with the coaches before games and going to practice before games. And then that became a thing, which still exists today, where the broadcasting crew will talk to the head coach and usually the quarterback on Fridays or Saturdays, before the game.

Right. Yeah, I was part of those. I wasn't part of those when I was a CBS, but when we did preseason games, we did those a little bit. And when I was directing Cardinals games, we did it with Bruce Ariens. We would sit in.

But yeah, they did that. Somebody said something. I don't know if this is true. That Madden come up with the idea of putting the yellow line down. Yeah, there was a, and I read this story in the open, there was a production meeting

in the mid-90s with the Fox people, you know, when they had taken over the product, the NFC package from CBS. And Madden was working on the telestrator, showing the crew how he was going to use it. And he was drawing all over the field. And then he slapped a line on where the first down was located. And apparently he said, why can't we just keep a first down line on the screen the whole game? And the story goes that everybody kind of shrugged their shoulders and people said, not, it'll be too distracting. Others said the technology wouldn't allow it. And he said,

you're wrong, we should do it. And the Fox Sports CEO, Eric Shanks, I don't know if you know him, who was a longtime producer, was in the room that day. And he said, the yellow line is a direct descendant of that moment when Madden said that as he was demonstrating how he was going to use the telestrator. Right. Yeah. You know, he's He and Sandy Grossman worked really hard on Telestrator. There were, you know, before games, they would rehearse Telestrator to make sure that the Telestrator was working and doing things that he wanted to do. Did you, like I always think, and I just don't think that you can mention one without the other,

and that's Summerall and Madden. And I just, Madden is, you know, his impact, obviously on the game was unbelievable. But to me, those two will always be linked. Is that how you see it as well or not? Oh, absolutely. Again, in this documentary, all these players, Peyton Manning, and, you know, when Pat Someraw and John Madden showed up, it became, you know, that was became, the game was bigger than what you thought.

And, yes, they were always linked together. You don't think of Summerall and, and no disrespect. You don't think of, I mean, Madden and Gary Bender. You don't think of Madden and Vince Kelly even, or Madden and Lindsay Nelson. But Summra, it's sort of like Funny Sam and Frank, you know, Summorrow and Madden. Yeah, I don't even think of Madden really with Al Michaels that much. To me, it's much more with, you know, his years with Sumerall.

They came to town a lot, Ernie, back in those days. You know, it was the NFC East. It was the NFC package, and most of the big games of that era involved teams in the NFC East, along with the 49ers and the Bears pretty much. So he came to town a lot. And part of it was, I think he really loved being here. He talked so complimentary all the time about RFK and about, you know, the skins. Did you, through your conversations with him and those people get the sense that he loved calling a game at RFK?

And the fans. And the fans. He loved the fans and he loved RFK, yes. they were certain, you know, again, it wasn't an antiseptic stadium by any means. And he loved that. You know, we always talked about getting down in the dirt and the mud, and the hogs. I mean, he was an offensive lineman.

And he, you know, he, you know, characterized the offensive line as some of the best things ever, and he loved the hogs. I think he went into the 5 o'clock club a couple times with the boys. Yeah, he did. I don't remember him as being a part. He wasn't a party guy. Yeah. You know, he was not a loner.

He was more of a, he was kind of an introvert. And he would, you know, come to the meetings, and he would, but he didn't hang out with guys or anything like that. He just was kept to himself. Yes, Summerall needed, he needed some running buddies back in the day. Madden wasn't that for him once the games were over, right? No, no, no. I don't think that they socialized all that much other than during, you know. And I think John had a.

problem you know sort of with pat chanette you know um pat's drinking you know that pat got out of but you know i don't think that john really think john was tried to help pat uh... get better yeah

you know again he made the game he brought other people into the game other people for and this is no women and kids and people that weren't necessarily football fans but he made it entertaining for them to to enjoy the game.

And he, it was sort of like Glenn, you know, made sports fun. Glenn Brenner made sports fun for people that weren't necessarily sports fans. He, he explained the game to the point that people that really weren't

big football, after Shidados, understood the game and made it fun. That's what thing was. Thanks for doing this. Oh, thanks for calling. I appreciate it. Happy New Year to you and we'll talk soon.

I hope so. Thanks, Bell. Happy New Year. Ernie Bauer, everybody. Most of you know Ernie at this point. He's been on the podcast before, but you probably knew Ernie long before that. And for those of you who don't know Ernie, just understand this. In terms of local television broadcasting here in the D.C. area, he is a Hall of Famer. He's a legend. He is directed. He has produced some of the all-time greats in sports and in the D.C. area. He is a Hall of Fame. He is directed. He is produced some of the all-time greats in news at places like Channel 9 and Channel 5 in Comcast Sportsnet. And he was a phenomenal mentor and advisor for so many people, including yours truly.

That was my first job out of college at Channel 5, the Fox affiliate here in D.C. And Ernie and Steve Buchance were the first two people that I got to work for. And you couldn't ask for a better training ground than, to work with those two. And even though I didn't get into broadcasting or didn't stay in broadcasting very long, came back to it as sort of a second professional career. The best part of working for both of them, and I've said this before, is that they just were so great to work for because they encouraged, they advised, there wasn't any ego, they wanted you to succeed, they gave you responsibility, they let you make mistakes and they taught you how to be a pro whether it was in that business

or any other and it was like an experience that I always think about young people and my own sons that I hope they get a first job experience with people like Ernie Bauer and Steve Buckeance. They were phenomenal to work for in terms of being a young person, you know, in your first real job. Anyway, enough on that. It's good to hear Ernie's voice and good to catch up with him. Okay, that's it for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.