The Kevin Sheehan Show - Magic:" I Need a Super Bowl Ring"

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

Kevin today on Magic Johnson's comments on "The Today Show" about his potential ownership of the Washington Commanders. Kevin talked a bit about UConn's National Championship win over San Diego State and whether or not the Huskies have become a college basketball "blue blood". Matt Paras/Washington Times jumped on to talk Commanders and Fordham Coach Keith Urgo was a guest on the show today. Keith is from the area, just produced the best season Fordham has had in decades....he talked about his journey, the state of college basketball, and more.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Can I tell you one other thing? I mean this. I have to try to play off a fellow friends.

But to you, everybody in the college game, my CBS family, my family, all the viewers. Thank you for being my friend. Jim Nance with his final words on his final college. basketball broadcast after 32 final fours and national championships at CBS. Yukon is the national champion, and it wasn't close, and it didn't stay under as I wished it would have. Going over by just a few points winning 76 to 59, Yukon rolling to their fifth title since 1999. That's damn close to Blue Bowl. blood material.

I've been saying for several years, I think the blue bloods are, especially if we keep it to four heads on Mount Rushmore, Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Duke. But if we were to expand it beyond the top four, at this point, it would be hard not to include Yukon in that conversation. I mean, five titles since 1999. one each in each of the last four decades. That is blue blood material. Look, they've got five since 1999.

Duke, Carolina have three. Kansas has two. Kentucky has just one. So if you go on at least quarter century runs, the last quarter century, Yukon is the blue blood in terms of national. championships. Overall wins and losses would go to one of those four schools during that period of time. But Yukon, man, fifth championship. By the way, during this century, the eighth for the Big

East, tying the ACC with eight, the Big 12s got three, the SEC's got three, the Big Ten this century, won national championship. That was Michigan State in the year 2000. Maryland counts as one of the ACC's eight championships this century. Duke's got three, Carolina's got three. Maryland with their national championship in Virginia with theirs. The PAC 12 has none in this century. Their last national champion was all the way back in 1997 when Arizona won the national championship. But anyway, Yukon, really impressive last night.

They had a stretch in the first half where they held San Diego State without a field goal for over 11 minutes. And that was for me the decisive stretch in the basketball game. I mean, San Diego State got back to within five late in that game before Andrew Hawkins knocked down a massive three. The Damatha Gathar's product really had a hell. hell of a tournament and really showed that he is NBA potential for sure. But that three pretty much snuffed out. Jordan Hawkins, I said Andrew Hawkins. Jordan Hawkins, knocking down that three. That pretty much snuffed out any hope that San Diego State had.

They fought, they fought valiantly, but I really think the first half kind of took away any legitimate chance they had to win the game. But San Diego State, proves the theory that you've got to be able to score to win six in a row. The Gary Williams theory, which by the way, remember I got us down to four schools through my theory of offensive efficiency, top 15% in scoring, your top scores being wing players, and then having really good coaching. I had them in the final six, but I did not include Dan. Hearley is a coach that I trusted in the tournament.

He had lost in the first round the previous two seasons. So they were there per the metrics, but weren't there per my subjective criteria. Yeah, Yukon can score, and they didn't get tested once in this tournament. Average margin of victory, 20 points, as dominant as any chance. champion we've seen in a long time, probably since Villanova in 2018. But man, Yukon really did a number on the field and never was tested. I mean, if you go back, it's the opener against Iona in which they trailed at halftime, but they won that game by 24 points.

I go back to that opening night of the tournament, and Rick Petino at halftime, being interviewed by whomever it was, walked off the 4th. Floren talked about how great it was to be the head coach at Iona and how proud he was of the Iona team for the way they had played and building a two-point lead against the four-seed in Yukon. Like, he must have known, A, he was leaving, B, that they had no chance to actually win the game and that it was flukish that they were up by two. He didn't say, you know, hey, that's just one half. We got to play better, you know, in the second half. We've got to continue what we're doing. He basically took a victory lap for having the lead against Yukon in the first round of the tournament. They got out scored 50 to 24 in the second half and lost by 24 points.

Petino knew. He knew that they weren't going to win that game even though they had a two-point lead at halftime. Yukon really impressive. I had Gary Williams on the radio show this morning. And he was talking about Sonogo, the big guy who got a most valuable player of the final four. And he starts talking about the way they played inside out at times with him and how he was really effective with the ball in his hands and had a couple of moves. And, you know, Sonogo is about $6.9, $250 somewhere in that range.

And I'm like, you know what? Now that you're describing him kind of reminds me a little bit of Lonnie Baxter. And actually, I didn't think of it until Gary started to talk about the way Sonogo plays. and then you think about his body type and that, you know, that jump hook over the left shoulder. You know, he had a lot of it. Good hands inside, big body. Lonnie was probably a little bit wider. I mean, I'm going to guess that Lonnie was 6869 and maybe 260, 265, something like that.

And Sonogo actually is a better, you know, shooter, I think, than Lonnie was. but impressive win for Yukon for sure. By the way, in looking to next year, the all, you know, the way too early top 25s are out there. Maryland, Georgetown's not in any of them. Maryland's in a couple of them, and a couple of them they're not in. I've seen them ranked as high as 20th and then 22nd. I think Jeff Goodman have had them. I think ESPN, they're not ranked at all preseason right now. Look, this is going to change significantly, based on the results of the transfer portal. But in looking at, and I just pulled up as an example, the ESPN all too early top 25 for next year.

Yukon's number one, Marquette's two, two big East teams, Duke's three, Kentucky's four, and Florida Atlantic is five. And in almost every all too early top 25 that I looked at, Florida Atlantic was in the top, seven or eight in the country. Now that assumes that everybody that they have comes back. I mean, they could lose some players to the transfer portal, you know, but projected starting lineup is essentially all five of the starters that were in the final four game that lost at the buzzer to San Diego State.

So FAU, a top five-ish kind of a team if everybody comes back pre-season. I mean, we've seen these runs in the tournament before, you know, from the non-power fives, from the mid-majors. And, you know, you get, you know, the butlers and, you know, in the early days, the Gonzaga's, and the Florida Gulf Coast making sweet 16s and Princeton made it. But, you know, VCU's made it. Florida Atlantic makes it to a final four. But rarely do you see them like the following year.

I'm not talking about Gonzaga. Gonzagons have built themselves into a powerhouse, even though. though they're not in a Power 5 league. I mean, they recruit five stars. Butler's in the Big East. Florida Atlantic, top five team, I don't know if I've ever seen that before, like a true mid-major that, by the way,

nobody had heard of before this year, unless you were a Redskins fan and knew that Alfred Morris went to Florida Atlantic. And they're coming back next year, if they bring everybody back with a top-five-ish kind of team preseason. Anyway, Yukon. Yeah, Blue Blood.

Sure. Add them to the list. They would be the one now. I mean, after winning this title, the way they won it, and then coming back is a preseason number one, number two, number three type of team next year. You know, five titles since 99. Yeah, I mean, if there's a fifth Blue Blood,

that's the team. The one that's had a chance to be that, over the last, you know, 23 years this century really is Michigan State. But they can't get through to the championship game and win it. They've only done that once. But all of those final fours, every year in the tournament, you know, always a threat when they get to the tournament. They're the ones that, you know, certainly could have entered into that conversation, but they haven't won the title enough.

They've only won at one time. So you can't put them. there. And that would be the one school that you would think about as it relates to, you know, in addition to Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, and now Yukon, that would be the one. I mean, I certainly wouldn't put Villanova into that conversation. No, they'd be in the conversation. But they're behind Yukon. They have three total titles, only two, during the period in which Yukons 1-5. All right.

I want to get to a couple of things real quickly, and then we've got two guests on the show today. Matt Paris from the Washington Times will join us in the next segment. We'll talk commanders with him, and then Keith Ergo is going to jump on to the show with us at the end. Keith is the head coach at Fordham. He was an assistant at Villanova, an assistant for nearly a decade at Penn State. and he is a local product. Went to Gonzaga here locally, grew up in a huge family from Bethesda. A lot of people in the area know the ergos.

And Keith's journey as a head coach has been an interesting one. So we'll talk a little bit about the national championship, a little bit about the tournament, a little bit about his run at Fordham this year, where they went 25 and 8 in his first year, totally turned that team around. Surprise that that team didn't get an NIT. bid. But Keith will be my guest at the end of the show. The show today presented by MyBooky,

go to MyBooky.ag, or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And MyBooky will allow you to cash in and cash out quickly. So we've been talking about the benefit of that for the NCAA tournament. Well, let's go one more weekend with that because it is Masters week. If you want to bet, the Masters. If you want to bet golf all weekend long as you're watching it, which I will be, on ESPN, which Scott will be intimately involved in the coverage of the Masters. He's down there. He will join us. I'm hopeful he'll join us tomorrow on the podcast. But if you want to bet the Masters, get in and get out at the end of the weekend, MyBooky is the place to do it. Go to my bookie.orgie.org. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., and you can bet the Masters every which way

You want to bet the Masters right now, by the way, Scotty Sheffler, the favorite at my bookie at plus 680, then it's Rory at plus 710, and John Rom at plus 890. I kind of feel like this may be Rory's time to win at Augusta finally. But it's going to be really interesting to see some of the live guys back and should be a fascinating week at Augusta. If you want to bet it and get in and get out quickly, betting your deposit amount just one time before being eligible to cash out,

go to mybooky.ag and use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. All right, so there's no real news on the ownership front today. However, someone spoke as a prospective owner of the Washington commanders for the first time. We have not heard from Josh Harris. We haven't heard from Mitchell Rails. We haven't heard from Steve Apostolopoulos. We haven't heard from Tillman Fertito. We haven't heard from Jeff Bezos on potentially buying the Washington commanders. But we did hear this morning from Magic Johnson. He was a guest on the Today Show, Craig Melvin, who works for NBC and the Today Show. He's the one that, you know, part of that disastrous 2-2-22 unveil wasn't his fault.

He asked Magic Johnson about potentially being a part-owner of the Washington commanders. Here's what Magic said. Before we let you go, as a lifelong Washington football fame, the prospect of Magic Johnson of being a part-owner of the football team that I've loved since Doug Williams' quarterback in the late 80s, what are our chances of you come on come on you don't lose magic you don't lose you know Craig to your point

you know I've gotten a ring in every sport but I need a Super Bowl ring and I would love to be the owner of the commanders do not only great work on the field but the work we could do with the city yes and I think that

if they bless us, Mr. Snyder blesses us with the opportunity to be an owner, it would be an emotional day for me. Yeah. And my father just died, so it would be a great moment for the Johnson family, as well as Josh Harris, who is the lead partner in this, to take that franchise and take it to another level. So I'm excited about it. And another African-American owner. Yes, that's it.

You and MJ. Yeah. Magic Johnson this morning on the Today Show, speaking on behalf of himself and the Josh Harris bid, saying that he hopes Snyder sees fit to give them the team, make them the winning bidders and how excited he would be to try to win a Super Bowl and the NFL as an owner. Take this team to the next level.

Take the Washington commanders, he said. I wish he had, you know, said, take the team that plays in Washington and win. I think to Craig Melvin as if to say, don't worry, we're not keeping this dumb name. He didn't do that. But I don't think it means that they're definitely keeping the name either. But for the first time, we've heard from somebody that could be the new owner or one of the new owners of the team. It would be really cool to have Magic Johnson as one of the owners of the football team.

I would be excited about that. I've always been a massive Magic fan. But anyway, there, Magic Johnson this morning, the first of the bidders to speak about potentially owning the team. Real quickly, before we get to Matt Paris and we talk some football, the women's final on Sunday, we kind of guessed yesterday that this was going to be the most watched women's basketball game. I mean, pro college doesn't matter in history. Well, it was, and it was by a wide margin. margin, 9.9 million viewers to the LSU, Iowa final. Good God.

That outrated three of the Elite 8 games in the men's bracket. That outrated Alabama K State in the Sugar Bowl. Outrated Tennessee Clemson in the Orange Bowl. It was in the neighborhood of the NFL on a holiday. The Raiders Steelers games, on Christmas Eve night on the NFL network, okay, understood, did 10.9 million viewers. I mean, the NFL on holidays is like gold. And this game did a hundred, did a million less than that did at 9.9 million.

I mean, amazing numbers, amazing momentum for women's college basketball, women's basketball in general. And as I mentioned yesterday, they should be setting up right now. LSU, Iowa, December, national TV. You know, I suggested this morning on radio, you take that Army Navy Saturday in December when it's just the Army Navy football game and just the Heisman trophy, you know, presentation at night. And there's just a ton of college basketball on. It's before the bowls start.

And there's no NFL on that Saturday. you take that game and you plop it right in between the Army Navy game and the Heisman trophy presentation on ESPN or on CBS or wherever. That thing will draw a massive audience. They've got to schedule that game next year. All right. Let me get to Matt Parris next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation.

Go to Windonation.com or call them. 866 Window Nation. They've got a great deal going on right now. Buy to get too free with no down payment, no payments, and no interest charge for two full years. So when you start paying for those new windows in 2025, you'll be paying half price. If your windows are 10 years of age or older, if they're drafty, if they're cracked and you need new windows, give Windonation a shot. I've been working with them for 14 years. I promise you it will work out. 866.90 Nation. or go to windonation.com. Mention my name.

You'll get a free estimate so there's nothing to lose. Joining us right now is Matt Paris. Matt, of course, covers the team for the Washington Times. You can follow Matt on Twitter at Matthew underscore Paris, P-A-R-A-S. You were out with everybody in Phoenix last week, So I want to cover maybe a little bit of ground that's been covered, but I haven't covered it with you. So I want to get some thoughts on you on last week with Ron speaking and some of the things he said. But before that, let me just ask you this as it relates to the sale of the team.

Where do you think we are right now? Do you have a hunch? Do you have a good feel as to where we are on Snyder selling the team or not? God, I don't know. I mean, you would think it's one. down with at least, you know, two formal bids being made. I think that's good progress, but whether this actually gets done in terms of, you know, the next owner's meetings in May, who knows it, let alone the start of the season.

So, you know, we're just kind of waiting along and don't have any idea, but it does seem to at least be progressing a little bit. All right. Let's talk about last week because it sparked a lot of conversation back here when you guys were out there, and it's continued since you've gotten back. So let's start with, you know, Ron more so than Martin. What do you think we learned as it relates to whether or not there will be a quarterback competition or not?

You know, I think they're going to have one, but I think they would like Sam Howell to win the job. I mean, we'll see what they do and the draft and who they bring in there. I don't expect them, even though Ron said that drafting a quarterback, at 16 was a possibility. I don't necessarily know if I believe that. I think they're going to give Hal every shot to win this. And if he holds up all right, then, you know, it should be, they'll probably be the week one starter. Did you find it odd how hard Ron pitched Sam, talking about, you know, mock drafters and where he should have been drafted and where they had him?

And, you know, he told Albert Breer for the Monday morning quarterback that two, of the scouts had starter grades on them and projected second or third. How did that strike you? Yes and no. I think that's just Rivera's quality. That's just how he acts. He's very much a salesman. I was talking to Ron after the session with reporters concluded.

We all got one-on-one each outlet. And so I was asking him about how, and he mentioned how he wasn't going to be desperate. And so I asked kind of as a follow-up, did you guys think you were maybe desperate last off season? And then he pretty much proceeded to give the same pitch that he used with Carson Lenthouse. You know, he had the 22 to 7 touchdown to interception ratio, and then went into the whole spiel again, kind of as if he was selling Carson all over again. So I think that's just kind of what he does with quarterbacks. he has a few lines that he wants to use and tries to sell the public on it.

And when he tries to sell, he sells hard. Yeah, I agree with that. It sounded very much like he was pitching Carson Wentz all over again, not the same player, obviously, different player. What do you think he believes in his heart about Sam Hal? I mean, who knows? I do think they are impressed with them behind the scenes. I think if they weren't at least willing to give the...

shot, they would have tried to be a little bit more aggressive. I mean, I think Jacoby percent in terms of kind of being a safe backup option is a smart move. They got him on a reasonable contract. He played well last year, but it is weird when you think about how this is a must

win year for Rivera and this whole staff next year, and if it doesn't work out, they'll probably be out of a job. So they're putting a lot of trust in the guy with one group start. Yeah. You just said something, and I know he told you this, that this is a big year for him. Do you think he's, that he feels pressure going into this year?

I think he told you essentially that this could be my last year. Do you think that this is like more resignation? He's at the end of his coaching career and if it ends up extending to five years and he gets the fifth year because they do okay next year and new ownership wants to keep him on for that final or not, or they go seven and ten, and he's replaced. Do you sense that he's feeling the pressure of like he better win this year, or that, for the lack of a better description, he's just resigned to whatever happens, happens, and he's okay with it? I think it's a bit of both.

I mean, I think it helps him that he's been through the situation before in Carolina. You know, he got an extra year when David Tepper came in. Tepper came in in 2018, even though they didn't do particularly well that season, he still kept his job for another year and then was fired before 2019 concluded. So I think he kind of knows what to expect when an ownership change happens. I think they realize that they need a big year, but as far as how he wants to portray that, I mean, he's now talking about building the rest of the roster, and if he's gone, leaving it in a good space for the next regime.

I mean, I think, you know, he still obviously wants a job, but I think he does understand the realities of this situation. And look, I mean, I think everyone does, you know, Jason Wright calls it a month when you're for Rivera as well. So I don't think they're shying away from this at all. Yeah, I guess one of the thoughts I had, and I had Sam Fortier on the radio show this morning, And I, he was talking and he mentioned that, remember last week when he was talking about sort of the battle between Sadiq Charles and Chris Paul and kind of forgot that Norwell was even on the team.

And there have been a couple of those instances where I've just had this feeling that, you know, he's been more of a CEO coach here in Washington than he was in Carolina, much more of a delegator, certainly with Jack Del Rio. and now, you know, he's essentially handed the offense from what we've been told, and I'm sure you have been as well to Eric Bienemy in terms of the associate head coach spot, assistant head coach, and the autonomy that's supposed to come with it, and that he's a little bit less engaged in the day-to-day and the decision-making on the day-to-day. Do you get that impression or not? Yes and no. I mean, I think he's still involved with how he wants things to operate.

I do think he's given Jack Del Rio, you know, some freedom to run kind of the schemes that he wants to run. If you remember with Scott Turner when he was here, Rivera talked pretty often about how, you know, he peaked in on offensive meetings and gave influence there. So I think it's a mix, but I do think Rivera, as it relates, compares to Carolina, is in a better position to kind of give a big picture look of things. He talked with me about how when he needs the next owner, he's going to give out, got to give kind of a concise summary of what they've done, why they've done it, and then, you know, looking ahead to the three, the five-year plan.

And he said that that was something that maybe he feels like he can do a bit better this time around being in a role where he kind of oversees everything football rather than just being the head coach overall. If it comes down to Jacoby Brissette and Sam Howell battling it out and it's close, or let's just say Brissette, there's a slight nod there, regardless of how it plays out, if it becomes a decision, like a legitimate conversation and a decision, who makes it? Ron Rivera or Eric Bienemy?

I think Rivera, I mean, he's still the coach. I mean, I'm sure Rivera would listen to the enemy, but at the same time, they put a lot of eggs in this halve-basket. So I think they would get him every chance to at least go out there. I think the bigger question is how long is how leash once the season starts and, you know, whisper set being a capable backup option. Are they going to pool how, like they did Haskins that one year? I think that's kind of more the question I have in mind.

What do you think of Sam Hal and his chances to be a good quarterback starting good starting quarterback in the NFL? I don't. I mean, he was impressive in his lone start. I do think he was really kind of a project last year, but the footwork in training camp was kind of all over the place. They said that that went better as the year went along. I mean, you know, the stats, if you look at that Dallas game, still weren't the most impressive thing in the world.

world, but yeah, I mean, you know, seeing that throw down the sideline to McCorn, how could you not be enticed by that? But I think it is really kind of, I don't know how much of an upgrade. I'm not expecting it to be a huge upgrade over what they've had at quarterback, but we've said for a long time with a season that they can just at least get average to above average quarterback plays, and the rest of the roster should be in a good position to help support that. So, you know, I guess we'll see. All right. One more on quarterbacks. You touched on it a little bit, but do you think there's any chance, and you guys hammered him with questions on this?

And part of the response was he hadn't even looked at the position yet, even though he wasn't ruling it out. But do you think there's any chance they look at quarterbacks seriously at 16? Not really. No, I mean, I think even though they've handled offensive line in free agency, I think that's still. probably a bigger need to have a pretty big need of a corner. I just think the rest of the roster is, you know, still need some upgrades. And 16 would allow them a chance to fill both spots. So, you know, I think if you told me the third round, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised. But even then, I think, you know, you're looking more at day three, kind of in the later

round five and six to add a third quarterback. You know, Sam suggested, like, you know, they might look at quarterback. know, after the first round. Can you imagine, Matt, if they took a quarterback, let's just say a Tanner McKee, like from Stanford in the second or third round. Like, that would be drama. It's not a first rounder, but here you've been talking about how you have a fifth rounder that should have been a first or a second rounder,

and you stole them at the beginning of the fifth, and you've slapped QB1 label on them, and then if they were to go draft a quarterback in the second or third round, like, to me, if they draft a quarterback in the first three rounds. By the way, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. But if they do that, they're telling you what I think is true, which is they have no idea about Sam Howell. Right.

Oh, no, I mean, look, if they were super confident in Sam Howe, if they, you know, one, he wouldn't have fallen to the fifth round that they had liked him that much. And he probably would have played sooner if, you know, he would have shown any signs of progress. sooner. So, you know, it was one career start. I think he showed a lot in that game, but I don't blame people for being cautious with him at all. Three weeks from Thursday night, they'll be on the clock at 16. You know, who knows, maybe they trade back, doubtful that they trade up. Do you have a

guess right now on who they take in the first round or a player that you'd like to see him take at 16? Not particularly. I mean, Joey Porter has been the one that's kind of been linked in every mock draft. I don't think someone like Christian Gonzalez will fall. I do think it's really interesting what might happen if one of the tackles fall to them, like the Georgia tackle. Project Jones. Yeah, yeah. If he's there, I mean, you know, Charles Leno is very cuttable from an salary cap standpoint.

They would save $8 million. And so, you know, if they feel like they have their left tackle, maybe they do that. But I'm just kind of interested to see how it shakes out. But in terms of whether I really like one prospect or another, you know, I haven't really, frankly, I haven't looked at it as much as I probably need to, even though we're three weeks out. Do you believe, as I do listening to Ron, talk about tight ends, that they don't feel they need one in the draft? I think they believe that.

I don't necessarily know if. I agree with that. But yeah, you know, the fact that they haven't moved on from Logan Thomas, that they're really banking on him, you know, returning to form after kind of a year where it was really disappointing that he wasn't able to show kind of what he did pre-injury.

You know, I think they're banking on him returning to that kind of form. I just don't know if that's possible or realistic that. All right, two Chase questions to finish up with. The first one, not as controversial. Do you think Chase Rui is on the opening day roster? I would lean no. It just depends on what his market would be and what the restructure is. I don't think he's on the roster at that number.

It's just whether a question of if they can agree on an extension, or not an extension, but a restructure, and if they can't, then he's going to be gone. I would lean towards no. I think Nick Gates gives them a fallback at center, and they also retained Tyler Larson, and they could draft someone there as well. So I would lean no. And the last Chase question for you is, do they pick up Chase Young's fifth-year option? Yes or no, why or why not?

again up in the air you know it's I think it it makes a lot of sense to do it in terms of even though it's a big number at 17 million do you really want chase young and want to sweat

you know being in the expiring years and the last years of their deal I think ownership what Rivera alluded to is kind of a big factor here you know if they decline it and Chase Young goes on to have a big year and suddenly he's a pre-agant. He has to use a franchise tag.

A new owner comes in and is wondering why you didn't take care of Chase Young or pick up that option. I think that might look bad on this regime. But, you know, how they feel about Chase Young or whether Chase Young has done enough at this point to pick up the fifth year option, I don't know. I mean, from that standpoint, I would say no. but I think they do it just because there's a lot of reasons to do it. Don't you think his answer last week was kind of bullshit? This, you know, this ownership, relying on new ownership, when they've already made, you know, the biggest off-season contract extension on their own without new ownership,

which was, you know, Duran's extension. I just thought that that was a pretty weak answer. I do. I think it was a weak answer from the sense of the money standpoint. You know, I think you could easily commit $17 million to, you know, the $24. I mean, that's presuming a lot, but I think you would do that. But, yeah, I think it's more so the, you know, what is the next ownership group think of Chase Young. He is a big-dame player.

and if you don't pick up that option and you potentially are having him in a contract year and Chase Young balls out, I don't think that looks good for really anyone. So maybe they want to bounce that idea off the next ownership group rather than just the money. But yeah, it was a strange answer. I lied. That was not my last question because I forgot.

I wanted to ask you about your conversation with Jason Wright, where you asked him about the rebrand, a possible rebrand. I know he had some comments on kind of, you know, the ownership situation and what the organization will be like, you know, after the sale. But let's start with, you asked him, I think, specifically whether or not, you know, another rebrand pulling commanders and starting over from scratch with new ownership was a possibility.

What did he say? Yeah, he said, no, that specifically I asked him whether he's, talked about the idea with any ownership groups, whether any ownership groups have expressed interest in that. He said no, because they're business people, that they're focused on upgrading the business in other areas, like a new venue, and that basically not to focus on that because they're focused on championships,

and they don't know how much to rebrand. The rebrand would contribute to that. That's just, you know, more summarizing what he says, but that was the difference of it. And what did he tell you as far as what new ownership, would mean for him and the business of the organization? Yeah, he called it a substantial boost. I think they're expecting a lot from fans who were sitting out on the sideline

or turned away because of the Snyder's to come back to the franchise and have this kind of newfound energy and excitement, whether they deserve that or whether that will actually happen. Who knows? But I do think they are expecting, you know, he's the, towards significant boost with me. He used substantial lifts with Ben Sandig. I think this is kind of their company line,

and they're trying to generate some excitement or capitalize on the excitement from Dan Snyder selling the team. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of, on one hand, it's kind of remarkable that he is so open about that because he's essentially, you know, going public with something that I think most people know, which is the single biggest obstacle to revenue generation for this franchise in recent years has been the owner. I mean, corporate sponsors, big corporations that buy blocks of club seats and suite holders have all said,

look, if Dan leaves, we're back in, but that has been the single biggest obstacle. So there is this feeling, I'm sure, for Jason and everybody else out there that's responsible for, you know, P&L for revenue in particular that if he goes, you know, they're going to be on the horn calling people that are going to say, that are finally going to say yes, because they've gotten a lot of nose over the last several years. Matt, thanks so much. Really appreciate it as always. Yeah, no problem.

Matt Paris, everybody from the Washington Times at Matthew underscore P-A-R-A-S on Twitter. Up next, we'll talk some college hoops, state of the sport, the national championship game last night, and a lot more with Keith Ergo, who is from here. He is a DMV product, and he just finished his first head coaching season at Fordham, where they went 25 and 8. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. Jumping on with us right now is Keith Ergo. Keith is the head coach at first. Fordham University. He was in year one this year where he led Fordham to a 25 and eight overall record, their best season in forever. A third place finish in the Atlantic Tenton. He was the A-10 coach of the year in his first year as a head coach. Keith has been an assistant

everywhere, but really Penn State and Villanova are the two primary places where he's worked. I watched them a lot on the sidelines, you know, as a Big Ten fan here in recent years, as part of the Penn State crew. And by the way, I think that 2020 team, which would have made the tournament with that big power forward number 11, whose name is escaping right now. Who am I thinking of, Keith? Why am I blanking on Lamar Stevens? Lamar Stevens. Thank you. Who's playing in the NBA?

We were tied for second, third seed in the tournament. but tied for second in the Atlantic 10. That's a big difference. Tide for second. No, tied for second with a 12 and 6 record tied with Dayton and St. Louis behind VCU in the 8-10. That's 100% right. Tide for second. My fault.

I need to redo this entire open, but I won't because we're all flawed. But I do, you know, that 2019-2020-2020 Penn State team, I thought you guys had a chance. It's like I'm a Maryland guy, so obviously that was Mark's best team, and it didn't get to go to the tournament. But I thought Penn State and Rutgers were going to make runs in that tournament that year. Well, we were top ten of them. We got as high as ninth in the country, and we were there for almost four weeks. We were as good as anybody, and we were planning at a very, very high level. We beat your Maryland team a couple of times, I believe, not just once that year.

And we won at Michigan State. one at Purdue. I mean, he had some ridiculous wins of Penn State wasn't used to. And the team was clicking, however, a couple of guys, including Lamar. The last, like, three weeks, we were convinced, I mean, he was sick. We had no idea if it was COVID or what the story was, but we lost, like, three of our last, like, four or five. But everybody was healthy. We had our big guy, Mike Wockenstow for the last two games in the regular season.

We had our, we'll never, I'll never forget it. We had our literally our two best practices we had ever had at Penn State. leading up to the Big Ten Tournament in Indianapolis. Our walk-through, our shoot-around was the first day, because we had a buy for, like, one of the first times in the history of Penn State in the Big Ten tournament. We had a buy. We were on the court in Indianapolis.

It was the most energetic, passionate shoot-around we had ever had. Everybody in the arena was going crazy. We were pumping music. Our guys were so fired up to make a run. They pulled us off the court to bring, I think, Michigan and someone else to start their warm-up for the game that day, and everybody got pulled off that day. And it was a crushing blow because, you know, honestly, guys like Lamar Stevens,

we felt like we got robbed in 2018 when we won the NIT, and we beat everybody by, like, 25. It was almost like similar to that of Yukons around this year in the NCAA tournament. We mauled everybody en route to an NIT championship at the Garden in 2018, where they only let four teams in in the Big Ten that year, which we felt was ridiculous because the Big Ten was a strong, as ever before, as opposed to this year, where nobody could understand how the hell they were getting the respect that they got this year. But anyway, we felt in 2019-20, we were poised to make a run in the

Big Ten Tournament and then a big run in the Big Ten Tournament. They were projecting us around a fourth or a 50, depending on what happens to the big-cent tournament. Yeah, despite the, you know, losing a couple of games at the end of the year, as you said, whether was Lamar being sick or whatever it was, you guys were still heading in there. And, you know, actually, I'm going to ask you this. And we're going to get into the championship game last night with Keith and his rise at Fordham and why the hell Fordham didn't, you know, get an NIT bid. I have no idea.

But I do want to ask you what I've asked just in the last few days. I asked Kevin Willard. I asked Gary Williams today. I asked John Crispin, who I had on this show the other day, Penn State guy and an ESPN analyst. Why do you think is someone who spent a lot of years in the Big Ten? Why do you think the Big Ten has struggled so much in the tournament in recent years? Well, in recent years, I think they did better, quite honestly, the people kind of just project. It's just the ratio as opposed to everybody else in how many, how many teams they got in.

I mean, I thought they did pretty good in recent years. Not winning a championship or getting anybody in the final four, I think it has a lot to do with matchups. I think, you know, for instance, Purdue's situation, they had the kid hostile. one year breaks his elbow or something like that in the first round or something crazy happens where that killed their momentum. They were poised to win the whole thing. They were ridiculous that year. Something always seems to happen with Purdue.

Then obviously, you know, they foul up three against Virginia. You know, percentages say that's what they should do, especially with their big. The miracle shot, you know, when the ball is tapped back, the half court prevents them from north of the final four. I think that was the elite eight games. It was. That was the Carson. That was the Carson Edwards game, where he went for 42.

Yeah, that was the year. I believe they beat us in the championship of the Big Ten tournament. That might have been 2018 when they beat us in the championship of the Big Ten tournament. Maybe it's a sentence. Anyway, so I think, you know, I think one, it's the 20-game season. It's a grueling. The league is so good with coaches and scouts and physicalities, ridiculous in league play.

but then it also has to do with matchups. It just is what it is. I mean, it's hard. It's really hard to win in the NCAA tournament to advance. A lot of have to do with matchups, a lot of has to do with kids. They're 18 and 22 years old. It's not that those teams aren't deserving. You know, they are.

Most of the years, if you look at their resumes, I mean, it's flat out. Most of the time, they're deserving. And the problem is all you can really do is kind of game. how league do November and December. And usually the Big Ten in most years, I mean, a lot of it goes down to the Big Ten ACC challenge, how we do in that.

And then, you know, obviously during the non-conference, the problem with that metric, and it's ringing true every year, is they weigh so much, so heavy on that November, December, that, you know, in league play, the quadrant,

so to speak, now with the net, they're already set based off of how the entire higher lead did in November and December. Well, if you add transfers, if you add, you know, young kids or whatever might be, or injuries, I mean, a team is completely different than they are in November and early December as opposed to late February. It's not, it's night and day, and they're weighing way too much stock on teams in November and December and how they do, as opposed to, you know, February or in league or how they're

finishing. The metrics make no sense. So I think it has a lot to do with early, early success, but also it's just a ridiculously tough league. The physical as hell. The coaching is ridiculous. And a lot has to do with matchups. I mean, there's no real reason why.

I don't want to, I don't want to lose a thought here because we're going to end up bouncing around a lot here, but that's okay. So this time of year for your, you know, your business, your profession is, is, so much different than it used to be. I mean, we have NIL, we have the transfer portal, which just is amazing. It's almost like free agency in the NFL, you know, that begins actually while the tournament is still going on. But for you at... It's wrong before that, quite honest. Right. Yeah, middle of the year. I mean, people are recruiting, you know, people in handshake lines. Um, so what is it like for you at Fordham,

where maybe the concern, not that it's not a concern at Maryland or Michigan State or Yukon or Duke or Carolina, but for in 8-10 school, it's more about protecting what you have and not getting picked over and having people leave. So what is that like? It's tough. I mean, it's difficult. You're constantly re-recruiting your own kids. You know, that's why, I mean, most people are like, ah, relationships don't matter anymore.

you just got to whatever, you just think they're going to leave. Well, you could think like that and then just have to restock or re-recruit every single year, reload your entire roster every year. Or you could think the way we think is develop such ridiculously authentic and real relationships with kids and their families that, you know, they're more interested in that than they are just taken off. And that's the way we kind of do things. However, you know, it's also a possibility.

positive, right? You're at a place like Fordham and the Atlantic 10, you have an opportunity, especially now because we were successful with some of our transfers. So a lot of these kids are thinking, the Atlantic 10 is sandwiched between the Power 5 and maybe what they call mid-major and low-major. Right. So, you know, if a low-major player, a mid-major player wants to come up, but they look at the statistics and averages and statistics show the majority of kids that make the jump to the Power 5 don't even come close to the statistics. They drop dramatically an individual player statistics as well as minutes played. I mean, some are anomalies, but for the most part,

everything across the board from minutes to production drops considerably. Now, if they jump to the Atlantic 10, it's not as much of a drop. It's actually either stays or sometimes increases dramatically. And then if you have a Power 5 kid who wants to come down, well, he doesn't want to go any further down than the Power 5 to the Atlantic 10, but almost like a Power 5 conference, so they feel good about that. that they can come down and they can have some success. So we're sandwiched.

So for us, our league is kind of the perfect scenario for a transfer on either level. So, you know, but from trying to keep our current roster, it's tough because, you know, if you have any success at all, teams are approaching you. And quite honestly, it's, it's, they're, they're not waiting anymore. They're, they're contacting kids in December and January and it's just ridiculous. it's almost like there are no rules. But we have to re-recruit, and that's where the NIL situation comes in a play, because some of these programs, these higher-level programs,

are offering these first-year transfers, or first-time transfers, I should say, coming out and just throwing numbers at them that are absurd, that things like, you know, we can't match. So NIL comes into play, because if you're not re-recruiting your current roster in April, with NIL being at the forefront of it, you're going to lose your best players. It just is what it is.

And that's just the nature of these. The problem is most of these guys are not getting what they've been promised in NIL money, and now they're already transferred one time, and we'll see if the NCAA really has this new kind of strict policy where they say waivers are going to be denied and things of that nature have it in the past. So it'll be interesting to see if they actually adhere to that, this year will kind of be that test dummy. And if that's the case, kids are going to be sitting out,

thinking they transferred for a third time or at least the second time, and it's going to be an absolute catastrophe. You're listening to Keith Ergo. Why am I having Keith Ergo? Because I did not do a good introduction. In fact, I botched the introduction. But Keith Thergo, I'm not just having him on because he is the head coach at Fordham and he's the A-10 coach of the year,

which is a good reason to have him on. But he's a local. He's from the DMV, grew up in the area, part of a big family that a lot of people in this area know. And a lot of people have followed Keith's, you know, trajectory professionally from starting at Villanova as a video coordinator. And you can take us through all of it, you know, here in a moment or two. And now he's the head coach at Fordham, replacing Kyle Neptune,

who took the job at Villanova, Jay Wright retired last year. I do want to, since I have you on, just talk real quickly before we get into you and your rise. What did you think of last night? Did you give San Diego State at any point, either before the game or during the game a chance? I did before the game. I thought, you know, and I, this is not, you know, you know, most people say this, but we have a video coordinator, and he played for Danny Hurley at Wagner, and he's awesome. Dawn McDonnellan, and I told him, So, look, the way that Connecticut's playing right now, they are very similar.

They remind me of the Villanova team in 2016. That just swept through in 2018. 18. All teams. I mean, just absolutely mall teams. A couple pros, and they won every game by, like, 20-something. They beat. I can't remember Kansas by, like, 30 in the Final Four.

I told them that's what I see happening. They just, what they just have too much balance, too much size, too much athleticism. Their guards, their length with Ted Jackson on the defensive end, he did, everybody was, Miami's got the best one-on-one, and yes, Miami does, but Connecticut had, in Isaiah Wong, they said he is the best one-on-one player in the tournament. He is, but Isaiah Wong and Jackson was a great matchup, and the Yukon guards are big, long, and athletic, and they had the length to prevent those guards from going off. I just, they had every piece of the puzzle.

It's ridiculous shooting. They have great depth. They have one of the best big men in the country, if not the best, as he's proven. they had great guard play. They just had all of the intangibles pretty much from one through eight to play at a very high level. San Diego State, they did have the length, kind of the size and the physicality. But, I mean, as you saw defensively, they just couldn't score. Connecticut's defense was just so fantastic.

Their length, their ability to switch one through five when necessary. Sonogos, you know, he's much more mobile than people realize. So his ability to stay laterally in front of people when they came up ball screen, it just made everything really difficult for San Diego State. Yeah, I mean, their defense in the first half. I mean, we know San Diego State struggled to score, you know, as a team all year long. That 11-minute stretch without a field goal, I really thought was the deciding stretch. I know they got it back to five there at 60 to 55, and then Hawkins hit that big shot,

and then they never looked back. but did you, do you know Danny Hurley at all? Have you coached against him or how well do you know him? I know him well enough. I don't know him great. I know his staff very well. I know Camadio and I know Luke. I know Danny, but I don't know them extremely well.

I mean, I have, you know, two guys on my staff that played a pit, one of which played it for Bob Sr. at St. Anthony's Trayvon Woodall was, you know, McDonald's All-American and played, I think, started three out of his four years. St. Anthony's for Bob Hurley. I have another, my video coordinator, played for Danny and Wagner. So I know the family, and I know him pretty well. I know staff better. Yeah, I mean, I had Jimmy P. on the show last week, and he was talking about, you know, sort of the Danny Hurley story, which, you know, if you followed college basketball, like I have

my whole life, you know that, you know, at Seton Hall, what he went through with depression and, you know, Bobby winning championships at Duke and the father and all the pressure that was on him. But, you know, Jimmy said to me last week, he said he's really calmed down and he's really figured out a new way to handle, you know, his players, his coaches, and it's working for him. And I asked him what he meant and he went into a long explanation. But do you know what he's talking about and do you agree with that? Yeah, 100%. I mean, there's no question. You know, you have to continue to adapt.

definitely calm down if you watch over the side of course of the sideline. You know, of course of his career on the sideline, he's calmed down dramatically, even though this year I think he had a couple of episodes, but you know, I do know his staff very well, and I know they absolutely love working for him, you know, and I

think that's probably something he's adjusted to. He's not a micromanager anymore, which I'm sure when you first become a head coach you can tend to be, as I'm aware of. So I think he gives them a lot of autonomy, and he's got some phenomenal assistant coaches that are, you know, almost every one of them is capable of being a head coach right now.

So that certainly helps out a lot. And, you know, the relationship with your players, it is the most important piece of the puzzle at this point. And learning each and every one of them, not treating all of them the same, it's probably the most, that's the most difficult thing for older coaches now who have been in it for a long time to adapt to at this point, because it is different on how you have to coach and handle each individual kid. It's a totally different situation now than it was five, ten years ago. I mean, you've kind of, through the discussion of NIL and transfer portal and having to re-recruit your own players already given the answer to that. But what else is so much different than it was 10 years ago?

You know, the COVID situation, you know, everybody was afraid to talk about mental health for years and years and years as was. So, you know, it was very difficult for people to come out and say they were struggling. now with COVID, it's real. You know, if you experienced it, I'll be real with you. I didn't buy into a whole lot of it prior to COVID, but then I witnessed it firsthand with some of these guys. Like, for instance, at Fordham, you know, you tell me,

they had two 30-day periods where they weren't allowed outside their dorm room in the wintertime in December and January. Two-30-day periods. There was no basketball, no practice. They were in a dorm room, weren't allowed. to come outside of the dorm. That's like jail. Yeah, it's impressive.

So naturally, yeah, they don't get to go home. They don't get to do. I mean, so mentally, these guys, they struggled through a heck of a lot. They didn't have very many social encounters. I mean, they took, they got two to three years in some cases of college completely removed from their lives. And they weren't even around their family, their friends. I mean, it was a pretty ridiculous time for some of these young adults.

And as a result, there's more struggle and more need for mental health professionals inside college athletics than ever before. And it is real and it's happening on a daily basis. So you have to be sensitive to that. Whereas opposed to traditionally, you could have been like, yeah, whatever, man. Grow up, you become a man, that kind of thing. You cannot do that anymore. That's not how it works. And you're going to find some major problems that, in fact, you act that way.

So you have to be sensitive to the mental health issue. and I think that has a lot to do with it. Let's talk about you. You grew up in Bethesda. Tell everybody, you know, kind of before you got into coaching, you know, I want to hear about the whole, you know, overseas thing that you did. Just kind of give everybody, you know, two minutes on Keith or go. Yeah, you know, I went to – I'm one of ten.

You know, so I went to Gonzaga High School. I played basketball, lacrosse, football at an early age, but I played basketball on lacrosse at Canzaga. We won a 1997 WCACAC championship in both basketball and lacrosse. And I went on to Fairfield University. He played both for a couple of years at Fairfield. And then I got involved with the nonprofit organization called Plank for Peace at the time, which is now Peace Players International.

And that's run by – it was founded by Sean Tewy, Devon Tewy. Right. And I was really Brendan Tewy's baby. And, you know, most people in that area, I certainly know that the Tui family. And I got involved with that early on, had a chance to realize that sports, specifically basketball, was definitely my calling. Because working for them, it's kind of a nonprofit organization that used sports, but specifically basketball as it means conflict resolution. So I had the opportunity to live in South Africa. And then I lived for a while about a year in North Island running the program.

again, using sports to bridge divide. And that's now become a global organization, 20 years in the making, in locals like South Africa, funded by the Nelson Mandela Foundation, Northern Ireland, the West Bank, Cyprus, and now domestically. Nike, Gatorade. I mean, a number of NBA executives are involved. So it's a big, kind of like a basketball piece corps, you know. And then after that, I did a bunch of different things,

taught real estate, all sorts of things, but found myself back in Gonzaga. working for four years under Steve Turner, who gave me my first coaching opportunity. I worked for four years. I was a head freshman coach for Gonzaga, and then also an assistant on varsity. And that's when I obviously got the itch to potentially get involved into college basketball. You know, that's kind of what happened. I knew some people of Villanova. I got the knot for an internship in Villanova and I've been the rest of this history.

Right time, right place. In 2007, 2008, we went to the Sweet 16. then I became an ops and we went to the final four in 2009 and then distant and so on and so forth. So that's kind of how the career started. I mean, it's really actually an amazing story because, you know, the organization that you work for that sent you to all of those different countries, you know, peace players international and I'm familiar with the organization now as well. I mean, what an education that was, you know, all of that travel. and then you're in, you know, then you're in Happy Valley for how many years? I mean, how many, you were at Penn State for how many years?

I was there for 10 years. So Pat Chambers was the associate coach in 2009. The baby at 12. He and I obviously, maybe in one at 10, we hit it off real quickly, came very close. But after our two, we worked together for two years after 2009 follow four, he got a head coaching job at BU. And I was going to go with him to get to become an assistant and get on the road. But Jay's like, no, no, no, no, you're going to stay right here.

do offs for a year and then become an assistant for me for a year. And so that's what I did. You know, he's the Godfather, so to speak. So whatever you do, he's going to make, he's going to make those decisions at that point. So when Pat won two in his second year at BU, Pat Chambers went to Penn State, and Jay's like, now it's time for you to go. You can help him build this program. Well, we got there in 2011, five months after we took the job,

the Sandusky situation happened, and everything changed dramatically from there. Right. You're there for that. Right. And a lot of people. So we had a three-year plan, five-year plan, seven-year plan, well, everything was bumped back two years. People wouldn't even take our calls. I mean, people I knew in the business very well,

but like, listen, you got to give us at least six to eight months, maybe 12 months before we can bring guys on campus. And people don't realize that at Penn State. Some of them now don't even realize it. Our first three years, just to get dudes on campus after everything to happen was almost impossible. You'd be walking through an airport with the Nitty line logo, and they would be looking at you like, you know, how dare you wear that, right?

So, you know, it was very difficult for the very first couple of years, but eventually we got through it. And, you know, we felt like we built something really special and sustainable that seemed to take off from there. Isn't it, you know, kind of in hindsight, a bit of a miracle when you think and consider how well Bill O'Brien did for those few years that he was there in the wake of that? He was incredible, man. And what he did galvanized the entire community.

I mean, you got guys like Michael Mouty, obviously, you know, you have so many big-time guys that decide to play for him. He, without, I promise it. Now, James has done a tremendous job. You know, Penn State football is what it is. But without Bill O'Brien during that year or two years, Penn State would have been in some serious trouble. I mean, he was, I mean, lightning in a bottle with him becoming the coach at that time.

he held that entire university together through that football situation. Yeah, amazing job that he did. All right, so you get the opportunity at Fordham this year when Kyle Neptune takes the job at Nova. And they haven't won anything of note for, you know, lots of years. I don't think they've been in the tournament since when, the early 90s, maybe. Yeah, 92. 92. And in your first year, you guys go 25 and 8 and finish, you know, as I told you earlier in this conversation, you finished tied for second in the 8-10.

But so how did you do it? How did you pull that off in your first year? Well, you know, I got an incredible staff. That's one. I got a bunch of guys on staff that are really good people that earned the right to be in the positions they are. they weren't guys that just got into it right after, you know, college or right after they're playing days. They all worked their way up from Division II to Low Division I and guys that are from the area, some that aren't. But, you know, a guy like Dave Paulson who just became the head coach at Holy Cross and just a really good mix of fantastic people that honestly just wanted to succeed.

They didn't really care about stepping on each other's toes to get to where they were trying to get to, which happens a lot in this business. our staff was as tight as you can possibly be, and then in turn, you know, the first year of college, we had a great year. I was 16, 16, which is a great year for Ford. But the one thing we were missing was leadership from within that locker room, you know. And so we focused a lot this past summer on building leaders and kind of empowering some of the older players to kind of take control of the locker room with a bunch of different. different ways and exercises. And they did that. And as a result, they connected really well, they held each other accountable. And I think that was the biggest difference for this particular team as opposed to last year. And then, you know, they really believed there was a mentality

that everywhere they came from, they've been winners. And everybody on staff has been winners. Biggie's titles, national championships, all of our guys on staff came from nothing but winning as players and coaches. And that funneled into the locker room. So, What Ford was typically used to was just going into a game hoping their insight inside that last four-minute timeout, maybe keep it close and have the other team make mistakes, and they pull off a miracle. This team specifically went into every game believing that we were winning. There was very rarely games where they didn't think that we had a chance or that we were supposed to win. That mentality alone, and then never in any game did they ever come into a timeout thinking we're not going to win,

whether or not we were down 8 or 10 or up 8 or 10, it always felt like somehow we were going to find a way. That's kind of the way we felt, you know, at Villanova when I was there and then the last couple of years of Penn State, that mentality right off the bat for a program that consistently had been losing, changing that mentality is worth 8 to 10 points every single game. And I think those are some of the reasons why we were having to turn it around. Why didn't you, how close were you to getting an NIT invite?

Well, I think if it was in Madison, in Square Garden like it was typically because of the reaction and because of the crowds withdrew to Barclay Center, which was, you know, the biggest crowds in Fordham History. I mean, Thursday night at the Barclays and Saturday were both the largest gatherings of alumni in Fordham history, which is pretty cool. And as a result, I think if the Final Four was in the garden like it typically was, we would be of drawn. It wouldn't even hesitate, right? but I think as a result of it being in Las Vegas,

they kind of chose to go with as many bigger brands that they felt could bring crowds for the first time in Vegas or somewhere kind of regionally. And, you know, unfortunately, they did, none of those succeeded because I don't think the numbers were very high at all for the NIT. I think if it was local, it would have been a no-brainer. Right.

Yeah, it did not work in Vegas, that's for sure. So what do you? And then the one thing, the one biggest issue they're telling, is our strength of schedule, which was the only thing that was poor. But we played all D-1s, we beat all D-1s, and you can't predict how teams are going to. So even I believe any of the, when you make a schedule in June and July, or even some of them were already done in May, well, you can't predict those kids leaving from their programs and them having to reload.

You have no idea how the teams that you put on your schedule are going to, you know, are going to perform come, you know, 2020 and 23. So they kind of, they weighed heavily on our strength of schedule, but we didn't play any D2, any D3, we played all D1s, and then, you know, obviously we won 25 games and we did really well in the sense. So, you know, I think our strength to schedule, this is where the net comes into play, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Yeah. Because our net was so low, apparently, that that's why we didn't get denied. But, you know, you explain this to me. We beat Duquesne, who I love, I love Coach Deborah.

We beat Duquesne twice, once on the road, once at home, by a combined score, you know, total. was like 30-some points. At the end of the year, they're still ahead. And we had, we tied for a second. He had a better overall record, better record in league, beat him twice, yet their net is higher than us. You explain that to me. No, I can't.

There were times. Yeah, there were times this year where I would go through the net, and I would be like, how is that team, you know, usually related to Maryland's position, how is that team, you know, ahead of us when we've beaten them twice? or, you know, beating them already. So. No, that's part of the problem. And that's how they're voting these teams in.

So for you, scheduling is so huge. I know it is for every D-1 coach. So what kind of philosophy scheduling will you have? And what do you have next year, you know, on the schedule and beyond in terms of non-con? It's impossible because, you know, scheduling is a legitimate 20-minute conversation. So I'm not going to do that with you. It's become outrageous and more and more difficult. Nobody wants to play Atlantic 10 teams in the non-conference.

But they already have 24 to 25 games locked in 20 league games plus MTEs, plus, you know, multi-team plus other, you know, showcase games. All the Power 5 have those. So they're already 25 to 26 games deep before they schedule their five non-conference left. And they're not going to go ahead and schedule on Atlantic 10, which they might struggle with. It makes no sense. They need to get wins. So for us, I mean, we're in a, we hosted our own MCE this year. We're in the Virgin Islands.

We can't, you know, so that'll, that immediately will have some competition in it. We got three games that'll boost our net up. We have, you know, a couple of different games that we've already scheduled, one in the Barclays with a team like UAB. That'll boost it up. We have a series with Manhattan that'll boost it up. But, you know, we have some other teams that we have a date in the garden. We're trying to get St. Johns, obviously, which will boost it up. But, you know, again, it's hard.

We have dates in Barclays and MSG every year that we tried last year to get a high major team. Connecticut being one of them, but none of them wanted to play. Providence, Rutgers, C, no, none of these teams. And I don't blame it. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them because they only need five to six non-conference games, and they need those games to be games where they're winning, one, two, they're gaining experience for their young guys or figuring out their rotations because a lot of these teams have transfers.

So, you know, it takes a couple of games that you need to win handily so they're comfortable wins where you can kind of focus on some of the things that most people don't think about, like rotations, like experience for your freshmen. And they're not going to play in the Atlantic 10th. What do you got coming back next year? We have a lot. So we have pretty much, we lose our two all-conference players. But, you know, and Khalid Moore, who was a transfer,

and then Darius Cuisenberry. But we have a number of guys coming back. We have a great freshman class coming in. We just got two tremendous transfers come in. So we're still working on a few different things. But, I mean, we feel really, really good about the athleticism and the physicality and the production that we have returning. It should be a very high-level, high-level basketball team, which we're very excited.

We should take the next step in our program, and I think we will. We have a number of, I think we have, what, five out of our top seven guys returning, which is really important for us, and we've improved dramatically in the transfer portal and freshman class. All right, last one. You're coaching at a pretty prestigious university, and, by the way, law school. And I would imagine since, you know, Fordham, I know they've got teams in other sports, but they're not division one level in a lot of the sports that they're,

in. So this is a big deal that Fordham went 25 and 8 this year. Who did you hear from that we would be interested in? Well, you know, it's funny. The WFUV as you're aware is one of the best communication schools in the country. You know, guys like Michael K, Mike Brain, you know, Brian, Brian Brian Cashman came to a few games of the Yankees and, you know, Chris Carino of the Nets. Wow. There's a number of Fordham alum that are, so you have. the voice of the next, the Knicks, the Giants, you know, a number of others that are all Fordham alum. So there was a host of folks that got back involved. And Tony Rennally from ESPN is also

one. So there's a lot of sports and entertainment folks. You got guys like Denzel Washington played basketball in Fordham, believe it or not, and gave a commencement speech at Fordham. So we're getting him hopefully back. Did you hear from Denzel? Did you get a text from Denzel? I did not. No, that's what we're working on. I'm not going to blow that all. But, you know, a number of high-level sports and entertainment folks are affordable alum. So, you know, it is cool, and we're excited about the future, and they are as well. So there's a lot to be proud of. Congrats on your success in year one. Best of luck to you next year. I enjoyed this. Hope you're well. Let's do it again. You know, hopefully sometime maybe, you know, during the season next year when you guys are rolling towards an A-10 tight. and a tournament bid. And then at that point, I won't ask you,

but you'll be headed somewhere beyond that if that happens. But congrats, Keith, on the year. That's awesome. Hey, man, Kevin, thank you so much. I truly appreciate you having me on. I look forward to seeing you soon. So thanks so much. I enjoyed that with Keith.

Quite the journey he's had on the way to becoming a D1 head coach for the first time at 42, 43. years old. Most of those guys don't ever get the opportunity to be a head coach at the D1 level. But he's really grinded over the last many years and has had a unique journey considering where it started professionally for him. But what a job he did this year at Fordham, a place where nobody's won in a long time, 25 and 8 and tied for second in the Atlantic 10. All right, that's it for the day. I'll be back tomorrow.