The Kevin Sheehan Show - Magic Johnson's Kingsbury Assist

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

Kevin with more on Lefty Driesell's passing to start the show before he got to Antonio Pierce confirming on a podcast that Magic Johnson played a role in flipping Kliff Kingsbury from the Raiders to Washington. Sam Fortier/Washington Post was a guest to discuss the Washington Post story on the Ted Leonsis/DC/Virginia saga that led to the announced intention to move the Wizards/Caps to Northern Virginia. Kevin had thoughts on the NBA All-Star game and the breaking news that the Nationals are no longer for sale.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The presenting sponsor of this show is Windonation. Call them at 86699 Nation or head to Windonation.com. You'll get a free in-home estimate if you mention my name so you've got nothing to lose.

So happy President's Day, everybody, except it shouldn't be called President's Day. That's what everybody refers to it as. But officially in the books, the federal books, that is, this is supposed to be called Washington's birthday, as in George Washington's birthday. This is a holiday, by the way, that's been celebrated since 1879. It was celebrated for many, many years on Washington's actual birth date, which was February 22nd.

but it became an official holiday weekend when they chose the third Monday of February to celebrate Washington's birthday and turn it into a federal holiday. In the 1980s, because retailers took advantage of this three-day weekend and started offering big-time sales, advertisers started to refer to it as President's Day weekend. and this Monday as President's Day. But it's supposed to be called Washington's birthday. Who knew? I didn't until I went into a deep dive this morning. And the reason for going into a deep dive on this subject is I had mentioned to my wife that I recalled as a child of the 70s getting two days off in the month of February.

Washington's birthday on February 22nd and Lincoln's birthday, which is the 12th of this month. So I went and looked up whether or not I was right about getting Lincoln's birthday off, and I was wrong. The state of Maryland never observed the Lincoln birthday as a holiday. However, many states did. So there were places in this country up until 1968 when they, turned the Washington birthday into a Monday observed federal holiday. And then a lot of the states that did observe Lincoln's birthday just went away with it, not because they called it President's Day.

But there was this thought that they were kind of combining both of their birthdays into one holiday. But again, officially, this is supposed to be called Washington's birthday, not President's Day. But no, I didn't get Lincoln's birthday off in the 9th. 1970s in elementary school. I thought I did. Maybe we just celebrated Lincoln's birthday in school, and that's what I remember. Who knows? But happy George Washington's birthday to everybody.

A hell of a first president, that's for sure. All right. I wanted to mention, well, first, Sam 48 of the Washington Post will be on the show with me in the next segment. Sam was one of the writers on a very well-done story. that laid out kind of a chronological play-by-play of the Ted Leonis monumental sports, D.C., Virginia behind the scenes over the last few years, especially the last several months, that led to a decision to move the Wizards' Caps to Virginia. At least the intention is to do that.

It's not done yet. We know that. but there's some really good stuff in this story. So Sam's going to join us to talk about that, and I'm sure we'll end up talking some football as well. The reaction that many of you shared with me about Lefty Drusel's passing over the weekend was just so good. I did a show over the weekend about Lefty in the wake of his passing.

Scott was on the show with me. If you missed it, you're a Maryland or a college hoops fan, I think it's worth it to go back and listen to. it. But I got so much feedback, tweets, emails, texts, and I'm going to read a few of them. This came from Tom Friend. Tom, of course, longtime writer, reporter, author, director, producer. You know, he covered the skins during the glory years for the Washington Post. He tweeted, he's why I fell utterly in love with basketball as an eight-year-old. He turned Cole Fieldhouse into the hoops version of RFK in the 70s.

If only Moses had stayed, he'd have his NCAA title. Now he gets to see Moses and Lenny in heaven. This from Charles. Charles wrote, some people pass and you can still hear their voice. He is one of those. I live near College Park and Cole and would be open so that you could go watch them practice. I never appreciated that until now.

Charles, as a student at Maryland in the 80s, it was incredible that you could just walk in, sit in Cole, and watch practice. Maybe you can still do that, I don't know. By the way, I had some classes in Coalfield House as well. But his voice was so big, so booming. You know, the old saying was true about him. He was larger in, you know, he was larger than, life. His presence was impossible to ignore or miss if you were ever in that building to watch a

practice. I remember the story he told Tom and I on this show about some of those practices. It was the practices that were held with Len bias on the team. I don't know if he was being revisionist or it was just plain exaggeration, but he said that bias in practice, he'd have to hold him out, or is he referred to bias? He always referred to bias as Lenned. And he said, Lenard was so good. And he said, I had to have him sit out practice so that the other players could gain confidence. I remember sitting in Cole during some of those practices. You know, I was just walking from one side of campus to the other or whatever, and I'd pop into Cole to watch them practice. I don't remember bias not practicing, but it's a great story.

I think a lot of the responses from the show on Saturday that I got that I appreciate the most were from some of you who were fans of other teams of other schools, mostly ACC schools. This from Joel, Kevin, I'm a tar heel through and through, but I'm your age, and Lefty's death hit me hard. Those battles between Carolina and Maryland with Dean and Lefty are all time. He was a big part of what we all remember about ACC basketball. He coached Maryland to powerhouse level, and those games at Coldfield House were wars. But you were right when you said Dean had his number, but then again, Dean had everyone's number. That is true.

Lefty was 10 and 29 against Dean Smith. This from Daniel. I'm a Wake Forest, 1978 grad. The Maryland game was always been. for Wake fans because Lefty was coming to town. He was a show. Memories of Skip Brown versus John Lucas, Kevin. Wow.

What games and teams? Man, Skip Brown was so good. That was like Skip Brown and Rod Griffin, I think, were on those teams. I think Carl Tacey coached them. And yeah, they were good and Maryland was good. And, I mean, Maryland had epic games during that era against NC State, North Carolina. and wake during those years, for sure.

I mean, this was before Duke was good, and then they got really good at the end of the 70s with Bill Foster, and then they were bad, and then Kay came, and they were bad to begin with, but then obviously they became Duke. This from Mike, because I got a bunch from Duke fans, this from Mike, I'm a dukey, Kevin, I hope you won't hold it against me.

But while I'm not supposed to admit this, the Maryland games were always massive for us, especially during the Gary Williams era, but there's no coach that took the brunt of the Duke students more than left he did, and he always had a sense of humor about it. The Cameron Crazes wore bald skull caps with a gas gauge meter that said empty on it. He would sign the caps with an X and say, that's all I know how to write because I went to Duke.

That's hysterical. I remember the bald caps with the gas gauge meters that read empty on it. I did not remember that he would sign him with a big X and say, that's all I know, because I went to Duke. This from Brian, I'm a 1980 Duke grad. Kenny DeNard's undercut of Buck Williams was a textbook boxout, Kevin. L.O.L. We got away with that one, Kev, but my memories of lefty at Duke included him signing mock cast that students wore

because he had an injured leg and showed up one year in a cast, for a game. He was the absolute best and an incredible ambassador for the league. There are really good online Duke site threads about Lefty this weekend. I don't remember Lefty being on crutches and having a cast. This from Earl. I saw Maryland at Reynolds Coliseum several times in the 70s. Thompson and Burleson versus McMillan and Elmore, both teams in the top five. Sloan versus Lefty. It didn't get any better. They were actually good friends and would scheme together ways to beat Dean Smith, rip old left-hander.

Yeah, you know, Feinstein's book about ACC basketball, which came out in the 90s, I would guess, it was one of his first books following season on the brink. I mean, I think it was. I would bet it was one of the first five or six books that he wrote. I remember there was a whole section about lefty. and basically, if I recall, it was a whole chapter, excuse me, about Lefty, the chapter began, lefty would call Norm Sloan once a week and the conversation would start, would that damn Dean do today or something like that.

The two of them just couldn't stand Dean because they couldn't beat them enough. This from Bobby, the league had Maryland and Virginia finish up each season again. against each other. It was more a rivalry of geography than anything else, but I remember how important those Maryland games were to UVA fans, and Terry Holland, who was lefty's assistant at Davidson. When we finally beat Maryland on the way to the ACC championship in 1976, it was the biggest win of Holland's career at that point. He was, as you said, an original, and we all wanted to beat him. So that was obviously from a UVA guy. And then this, from Tom, I'm a Georgetown guy.

I remember what Coach Thompson said about there would have been no Georgetown without lefty. They are both on the Mount Rushmore of D.C. sports coaches along with Gibbs and Gary Williams. Loved you sharing how much he meant to Maryland fans. He obviously meant a lot for basketball in this area. Yeah, the Mount Rushmore of D.C. sports coaches, so they're five, I think, because George George Allen would be tough to leave out. But yeah, it's Coach Thompson, Lefty, Gary Gibbs, and George Allen, and we can debate on which one you'd leave out.

But that would be the Mount Rushmore of coaches. Sorry if I'm forgetting anybody off the top of my head. I mean, I loved Dick Mata. I loved Casey Jones. And, yeah, that would be the list, though. So many good memories shared about it. lefty appreciate all of them tomorrow on radio by the way on 980 Tom McMillan's going to be a guest to share his thoughts about playing for lefty drusel during that 1970s heyday he'll be on with me at

1225 if you want to listen uh switching gears to our football team the commanders so ryan clark has this podcast called pivot and he had antonio pierce the raiders head coach by the way his former teammate here in Washington on his show. And the conversation at one point focused on Antonio Pierce trying to hire Cliff Kingsbury to be his offensive coordinator. Kingsbury changed his mind. It would have appeared based on reporting that Kingsbury was on the verge of becoming the Raiders O.C. But then that changed and he ended up coming to Washington. Now, there had been some reporting that Magic Johnson was instrumental in getting Kingsbury to change his mind. Here's what Antonio Pierce said. You'll hear the Ryan Clark setup.

At one point, I was like, okay, the Raiders got Cliff Kingsbury. That's going to, that is going to be their offensive coordinator. Then I go to sleep and I wake up. I'm like, well, they ain't got clip no more. How does news just break? before certain conversations are had, or how does that whole process work for you? It has to be difficult as well, because you are working to build the staff. You're having to ask, can you speak to certain coaches?

But you feel like you've got one piece, and now all of a sudden that piece goes away. Yeah, well, National Football League, NFL, not for long. So you're right. I thought we had a guy, but not for long. Hold on. So you put pen of paper, man, that's the one thing I learned. No different than that's in free agency, right?

Teams are recruiting new things are going on. Listen, Macon Johnson pretty good. I guess you can still dish it out a little bit. If I'm losing the magic, I'm okay with that, right? And then at the end of the day, listen, man, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. That's fine. So Antonio Pierce confirming that Magic Johnson was influential in getting Cliff Kingsbury to flip, perhaps, from Vegas to Washington.

I've got a quick response to that in a moment, But I wanted to mention, I listened to about 25 minutes of this podcast. Pierce is really impressive. Beyond being a good communicator and thoughtful and smart and quick on his feet, for me, there's kind of an old-school nature to him that I don't think turns off players. I think it actually probably connects with players. But Cooley called me the day that Josh McDaniels was fired. I'm pretty sure I've shared this story with all of you before.

And he said, just remember that I told you this, Antonio Pierce is going to get the full-time job in Vegas. Once the season ends, they're going to hire him as the full-time head coach. And I said, why? And he said, he's among the most impressive teammates that I ever had. And I just always thought of him as a guy that was going to be a head coach. He was a great leader. He was a great communicator.

He was really smart. Cooley was right about that. Now, as far as Magic's influence, great. But I want to just mention two things. First is that I hope that Cliff Kingsbury didn't take this job solely because Magic Johnson pitched him. I would think Cliff Kingsbury is above that. I mean, it's nice to have Magic Johnson pitch you or give you why Washington would be a great opportunity. But you're not going to take the Washington gig because Magic Johnson.

Johnson called you up and said, take Washington over Vegas for these reasons. Cliff Kingsbury's been an NFL head coach. He's been a college head coach. But on the flip side of that, Magic's an L.A. guy. I would imagine he knows people at USC where Cliff Kingsbury was. And this may speak more to the new ownership situation, the communication between owners, the collaboration that the owners have with the front office that they've just hired. You know, I'm not saying that it worked out this way, but it seems intuitive that, okay, Kingsbury's on the list for Dan Quinn.

You know, Josh Harris and Mitch Rails and Magic Johnson at the very least, Mark Eind, know who they're looking at. And Magic says, I know Cliff Kingsbury, or I know Lincoln Riley. I know people at USC. You want me to give him a call? You want me to tell them what a great opportunity this is? Can't hurt. Just like it couldn't hurt with Bob Myers or Rick Spielman on the coaching search committee, the GM search committee. Tommy thinks you just pick up the phone and make one call if you're Josh Harris.

Yeah, there's more to that. There is some credibility in this organization. Again, I don't think Kingsbury took the gig because Magic pitched him on it. but having magic as part of the ownership group, it can't hurt. So anyway, that's it. Let's get to Sam 40A next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com.

Mention my name. You'll get a free in-home estimate. You've got nothing to lose if you've been thinking about new Windonation. just call them get a free estimate which includes right now 50% off all windows and all window styles plus no money down no payments and no interest for two full years you don't have to do anything with it right away they're not going to pressure you after they give you this estimate you mentioned my name they're going to take good care of you but if you want to shop it and look for a better deal fine but I don't think you'll find a better deal I know you won't work

with a better company or with a better product. WindowNation.com or 86690 Nation. Jumping on with us right now is Sam Fortier from the Washington Post. Follow Sam on Twitter at Sam 4TR. That's the number four TR. Sam, as I mentioned at the beginning of this show, was one of several writers on a story titled Inside Ted Leonis's decision to move wizards and capitals to Virginia.

And it is a great blow-by-blow of how we got to Ted intending to move the Wizards and Caps to Northern Virginia. And so, Sam, before I, you know, ask you to kind of give us the gist of the story from your perspective, I wanted to read what I thought was a very, you know, exciting, compelling

opening to this story because I think it sets it up for people in a way that will interest them more than maybe they are. But I think as far as this story goes, people, even if this is not at the top of your agenda of sports stories or sports conversations, this has gotten very interesting and may have taken, for me anyway, a bit of a twist and turn in favor of of kind of siding with Ted, but I'll explain that here as we go through this. So it starts off as follows. The offer from the mayor was just what Ted Leonis had been looking for. For months, the billionaire owner of the Washington Wizards and Capitals

had been pressing the D.C. government to pay at least half of the cost of modernizing his aging downtown arena. Now, in an email on December 10th, a Sunday afternoon, Mayor Muriel Bowser was offering just that. $500 million towards an $800 million project to keep his basketball and hockey teams playing in the city for decades to come. Leonsis responded two hours later saying he would review the proposal right away and suggesting that they meet. On Tuesday morning, the mayor presented her offer at Leonsis's corporate offices at Capital One Arena in a conference room with, windows overlooking the street below. They spoke for an hour before the Democratic mayor brought up

the elephant in the room. She said she had heard chatter that Republican Virginia Governor Glenn Yonkin was about to announce a deal to build an arena for the teams on the other side of the Potomac River. She asked Liances if it was true. Leonsis spun 360 degrees in his chair. Nothing had been signed, he said, but he acknowledged he would be joining Yonkin for an announcement the next day. Suddenly it became clear. He hadn't invited the mayor to his office to discuss her offer. He'd done it to tell her she was too late. So with that, Sam Fortier, I would like you to take us from the moment these conversations about upgrades to the arena, etc., started,

and how we got to this December meeting the day before he was meeting with Glenn Yonkin, or a couple of days before he was meeting with Glenn Yonkin. And I don't want to tell you where to start, but I wanted to throw this in there so that people understand that in 2015, right after the mayor came into office, she and Ted were together after coming to an agreement on building the facility in southeast at St. Elizabeth's for the practice facilities, for the mystics, the eventual G-League team. And Ted said on that particular day in 2015, he gave her a peck on the cheek and said, we have the most dynamic and accomplished mayor of any major city in the country, closed quote.

That was in 2015. Sam, take us from, you know, there until we got to the point where they had this meet. and it was obviously, you know, it may have been dollar spot on at that point, but a day or many days too late. First off, Kevin, thank you for having me and thank you for, you know, reading some of that, and I really appreciate that. See, you're right, it starts there months into Mayor Bowser's first term. They get off to probably the best start a mayor and a sports team owner could, right,

making that deal, the peck on the cheek, the compliment. And then I think, you know, he says in 2016 that he will never, you know, quote never move out of downtown. And he said he would never talk to Maryland or Virginia. And then over the next six or seven years, COVID crime, noise, not feeling like a top priority in the district. All of those things lead to mounting frustrations for Ted Leonas so that in March 22, he talks about some renovations. you know, potential plans with the city. They settle on a full renovation, but by December 2020,

Ted Leonas starts looking outside of the district. He has, particularly in Virginia, some Virginia economic officials send out emails to Northern Virginia districts. There's an email that they are working for highly confidential partners, looking for basically a new arena that becomes Potomac Yard. So in March 2023, they meet and Ted tells the mayor that he's considering an option in Virginia, and there's a disagreement on what happens.

But basically, according to Monumental, she said a couple times you don't want to go to Virginia. And then over the summer, actually before over the summer, around that same time, one of Ted's top aides, Monica Dixon, is at a board meeting, and she runs into the CEO, of JBG Smith, a real estate developer. And the CEO tells her, you know, basically, oh, we have an option, we own some land out in Alexandria that could be perfect for your stadium. And then, you know, over the next few months,

there's negotiations. Over the summer, Governor Glenn Yonkin gets pulled in, and he's skeptical about the deal initially as well. But ultimately he and Ted sit down. They didn't know each other a ton. before. But, you know, they're obviously in some of the same circles in Northern Virginia, and they sit down and they start to realize, hey, maybe this could work. But in early September,

you know, they've made progress with the district monumental has, and it feels like that this is going to come together. They asked for $600 million toward an $800 million renovation, and on September 1st, they agree the mayor and Ted, basically, that they were going to be. going to split it 50-50, you know, the $400 million each, and they were going to provide their contributions up front. There is a pivotal meeting on September 7 in the convention center, downtown Washington, where Monumental finds out that actually the district doesn't intend to borrow it up front. They are going to ask Monumental to borrow $800 million, and the district is going to pay off its $400 million obligation over time, which is not what Monumental thought

going into the meeting. And there is a lot of themes throughout the story, a lot of historical context with Abe Poland, because basically what the district was asking Leonthus to do is a similar thing to what Abe Poland had done when he moved the teams and built the MCI Center downtown. Ted did not want to do that. Ted did not like that structure of the deal. And the next day, he goes to Virginia and he meets with some Virginia officials. and the speed really picks up.

Like things are escalating in late October, according to the governor. There was a phone call where Ted said, I would like to get this done into November. The district is not making a lot of progress, not showing monumental that it can borrow its $400 million because basically after that $400 million, after the convention center meeting,

The district's trying to figure out how can we borrow this money. And they have, I don't want to get two in the weeds here, but they basically have a debt cap that they cannot exceed. Right. So they're actually, it's impossible for them to borrow up to the $400 million. But they're trying to figure out different ways. They offer Ted the land below Capital One, which the district owns. He doesn't like that. They try to impose different taxes.

He doesn't like them because it's the one of the tax business owners. So basically we get to December. And the district at this point realizes how serious Virginia is. And they're just throwing up offer after after after offer. And in a dramatic, pretty unprecedented turn, the CFO, the city goes to refinance some of the debt in the city. And for whatever reason, it's a lot better than they expect. They got a better rate. They got a much better rate according to your story than they ever anticipated.

Exactly. And so, you know, just a couple of days. before the deadline, they figure out that they now have a lot more room than they expected under the debt cap. And that's why Mayor Bowser and Chairman Phil Mendelsohn are able to make this $500 million upfront contribution, hell merry offer at the last minute. So $500 million, more than the city was planning to offer, you know, was trying to get to the whole time, they have this $500 million. They email it over Sunday night. You know, so if everybody remembers, But that announcement that monumental made where Ted stood up with the governor was on Wednesday, Sunday night, they email it over.

Ted says, hey, let's meet on key emails back. I'm out of town. Let's meet on Tuesday. They may meet first thing Tuesday morning. And that's how we get to the discussion that the part of the story that you read. So I want everybody to understand a couple of things that you didn't mention because, I mean, it does get into the weeds here. But in terms of kind of this relationship between Ted and his teams and the city and Capital One Arena in Chinatown, there never seems to be at any point until 20, you know, 22 at the earliest, any thought of leaving D.C. In fact, you know, in 2022, Ted spent $125 million in upgrades, or something.

started to spend another $85 million in upgrading. They had already spent $125 million in upgrading. And so they had come to this agreement where they were either going to do sort of minor, mid-level, or build a totally new arena. And they decided kind of on the significant renovation part, which was an $800 million project. And that September 1st meeting of this year, I just want everybody to understand.

That was this past September. All right, they ended up holding that press conference on December 18th on or around there. So it was just a couple of months where this thing really, you know, sort of fell up, started to come together, then fell apart. But the reason, and I'm not sitting here just totally backing Ted on what happened here. But the bottom line is, and I don't want him to leave the city. Let me just make that very clear, and I've talked about this since that press conference. I want the city to keep these teams. I think it'll be devastating for the city if this actually comes to fruition.

But on September 1st, when they met and they had already agreed that splitting this deal was amenable to both. And this thing was moving forward. They showed up the mayor with this 30-page slideshow, you know, PowerPoint presentation. and said, oh, by the way, you're going to have to fund it all up front and we'll pay you back over six to ten years. And that's where this whole thing changed. And I think based on your story, unless you feel otherwise, was the moment where Ted really began to take Virginia seriously. I think if they came to the table on September 1st based on the way your story is written, and it was a true splitting of the $800 million cost,

which they had negotiated from $500 down to just splitting it. And he wasn't going to have to fund it out of pocket and get paid out over six to ten years. I think that they would have gotten a deal done. What do you think? I think that's right. I think that a lot of people I've seen have debated the validity of Ted saying, if you had offered me this earlier, I would have accepted it in that December 12th meeting, the day before the announcement in Virginia.

But I do think, I mean, I actually, I go back and forth about this in my head because at that point on September 1st, he'd already met with the governor. He talked with him on the phone and then he met with him on July 21st. And I think that it's a compelling offer. And even if, you know, you sit down with $400 million and you make the deal that you said you were going to make. At that point, had Ted not gone down the road far enough to kind of play out the string and he would, you know, make a leverage play and see, you know, could the district do better? I think that there are strong arguments on both sides of would he actually

have taken the deal if they came to the convention center? I think that a lot of people involved think that he would have. But I think there's also a universe in which they come to the table and Ted could have, you know, said, oh, I want to explore the Virginia option a little more. I know that, but we'll never know because they changed the deal in that meeting on September 1st. They made it much tougher for him to move forward with them because they essentially said, oh, by the way, we forgot to tell you, this is coming out of your pocket up front, and then we'll pay you back over the next six to ten years, which was not part of the original thought that he was amenable to accepting.

Yeah, I mean, that is that's accurate. And I would say that also, I mean, people should know in this story, we link to, you know, the slideshow that you're talking about, some of the different proposals, the JP Morgan report for Youngkin's $2 billion plan. Like, you can read, you can, if you go to the story, you can click on, you can read these analyses, these spreadsheets, and you can look for yourself at the deals that we're discussing here. I haven't done that. What would I learn by doing that that's not in the story? I think you would learn more of the financial breakdowns and things like that. And so, you know, when we're talking about the – I think there's a lot of value into seeing, like, the $500 million offer that Bowser makes at the very end,

you can go look at that flip book. And you can look at the way that she's presenting it to him, which I think just adds a little bit more. But I guess I gathered from this. At that point, it was too late. They had the opportunity in September to get something done that I think that, I don't know, here's the great part about this story, people. It's not a bunch of anonymous sources. It's Ted.

It's Mayor Bowser. It's a lot of the key figures. You know, this isn't speculation. This is them telling their story. And what's interesting to me, and I want to ask you this question right now so I don't forget it. I think one of my big takeaways from reading this story was there's really not a lot of major, if any, disagreement about the way things went down. No, there's some minor disagreement about when did Ted tell the mayor about Virginia?

He says it was in March. She doesn't remember that. But I think that, like, that is one of the strengths of this story is, you know, Ted Lealtos is saying on the record that he, you know, went, you know, pursued Virginia more aggressively because he had nothing firm from the city. Right. I think that another part of it is, you know, and the mayor and the council chairman don't dispute that they were not aligned. They did not, you know, they were not making a coordinated pitch in the same way that

Virginia was. And you've got to think about the contrast here. Virginia has a Republican governor and a very Democratic mayor in Alexandria, and they're aligned. They're making, you know, some pitches with slick. financial presentation, everything is coming together. In D.C., the two top executives are not only not aligned, but there's a moment where a Leonton aide tells Mendelsohn, the council chairman, that it was the first time they had been given a piece of paper. So these offers are being

negotiated just verbally, and that they, you know, Monumental had not been able to take any, like, financial documents and do analysis on them. And so I think that, you know, these are on the record things that are not being disputed. So I think that that's another value. element of it. Yeah, definitely. I think another part that we haven't addressed is while in reading this story, and it sounds like you agree with me to a certain extent, that if the city had had the ability and maybe had been a little bit more up front about what they were bringing to the table for that early September meeting, that I think a deal would have gotten done. At the same time, it was more than just the money. It was the noise.

that was a part of that downtown arena where, by the way, they had their offices. I mean, there's one story in here in which he's got a meeting with that guy from the city, and literally they couldn't hear themselves in the meeting because the noise on the street was so loud. And there was one effort after another for politicians to get a noise ordinance in that area, and it never passed. Crime, you know, he has moved away from saying that that was the major issue, but security for his customers was always on his mind, and that I'd throw in clearly the attention paid to the commanders

and getting them back into D.C. These were all factors that were along with the fact that he wasn't getting a real offer. They were dropping the ball. They weren't coordinated. And then in early September, the deal that he thought he was going to be presented with was significantly different. It just all added up for, him. But I mean, speak to kind of the noise, the, you know, the commander's attention and the

crime a bit. So I think that the noise and the crime and like the fallout from COVID, I think all of those things are mounting frustrations. I think they're context for Ted's thinking, but they're not primary motivators to ultimately go ahead and make this move. Ted has talked about he claims that the money was not the decision. It was about the future. It was about locating everything. But I think was a combination of all the things that we said and money. I think that money is ultimately a huge role in this and having a big undeveloped parcel of land. And I would say that the commanders and not just the commanders, but, you know, the nationals were also jockeying for money that, you know, they sent a letter to some city leaders about, hey, we need new scoreboard, we need modernization.

And if there's going to be a new commander stadium, I think you have to start worrying if you're the nationals and monumental, like, what do our premium suites look like? How are we going to be the top concert destination? You know, things of that nature. And Ted says, again, you know, on the record in the story, he didn't have a high degree of confidence that he would be at the top of the stack. He didn't have a high degree of confidence that he would be a top priority in the city when they had money that they had to give out. He's right. He's right. He's right. The commanders, the nationals. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, the mayor, I mean, we wrote last June that there was tension between the mayor and the city leadership and the sports team owners.

And I think that this is a, you know, obviously a byproduct of that relationship degrading as well. I've got a couple of big picture questions in terms of what you think will happen moving forward, but just staying with the deal here for a moment. So we go from September to this December change in an offer. They're coming now with more money. It's not going to be a split. They're going to have $500 million because, as Sam described, the CFO in restructuring the debt, you know, hit the lottery with a much lower rate. Do you believe that they got, do you believe they got to $500 million, you know, at the 11th hour, essentially, because they were able to restructure the debt. They got a much better rate than they thought they were getting.

rather than having the ability to have come up with that in September? That this was the, they realized then that it was serious about Virginia, and they got serious for the first time. I am not a financial expert at all, but my colleague, Megan Flynn, was our liaison with the CFO's office, and she's done great reporting on this project. I would say that her reporting showed that they did not have the capacity to make an offer more than, you know, something like $200 million,

and then they came back and they were able to make a $500 million offer, a substantial increase because of that debt refinancing. And that this was, the debt refinancing is, you know, as I understand it, a very normal, regular thing that they do, and this one was just, you know, much better for the city than they anticipated. So that is how I understand it. By the way, it was $432 million. It was basically half, you know, or,

a little bit more than half of the project that they prop. I'm talking about what they were able to offer up front. Up front, got it. Yeah, okay. There's something in here about... Sorry, people should understand, if I can jump in, people should understand that when it was up front is a huge deal here because that's what Ted wants.

Ted does not want to borrow $800 million. He wants the city's $400 million up front. And one of the attractive things about the Virginia offer is that it only required him to put up $400 million up front. Anyway, he got basically $1.5 billion in public money, but 400 million up front, he basically needed to contribute to Virginia

only the same amount he was going to contribute to D.C. Anyway. Got it. Yeah. And just, so if we just say $800 million was what they agreed to split D.C. and Ted, D.C. came back and said, actually,

We need you to put up 600 of the 800. We'll put up 200. And those were different terms in early September, right? Yeah. Okay. There's something that you guys have in this story, and there's not been a lot of discussion about this, although I did see, I guess, last week or the week before,

about the potential for a Mayor Bowser City lawsuit to force them to stay. That the Abe Poland lease that they did back in 1997, is, I guess, a 50-year lease and doesn't run out technically until 2047, and they think Ted's on the hook to stay there through 2047. So what's the truth there? Okay, so this is a very complicated topic that people have very, you know, differing opinions on, but I'm going to try to distill it this way. Basically, Ted signed a 30-year lease in 97, and in 2007, Abe did, yeah. Abe did, yeah. Abe did, yeah.

In 2007, the city gave him a capital expenditure. I want to say it was like $50 million. And that, in exchange for that, Ted extended the lease. He had two 10-year extensions that kicked in that made it from 2027 to 2047, right? And so at this point, there's a thing where if they pay off the bond on the lease early, which Monumental is allowed to do, then it would negate the lease extension. So the release would revert from 2047 to 2027.

Got it. Basically, as my understanding is, and there's like roughly $30 million remaining on that bond. So Monumental is fully capable of paying that off. And Ted has talked for years about, you know, in 2027, I'm going to be a free agent. That's not lost upon me. I can do this.

I'm going to pay this off. He's been talking about that for years. And so when the mayor came out in a press conference the other day and basically said, well, we consider the lease to go until 2047. I think that was very surprising to monumental because everybody understands they could pay this off, you know, the bond and lease. But my, and Mayor Bowser, when Megan followed up and said, my colleague Megan followed up and said, how are you going to enforce this? They're allowed to pay this off. She refused to elaborate on her plans. But basically, like, what my understanding is, it's Mayor Bowser saying, you can give me the check to pay off the bond and I won't cash it. Like, that is, I think, her strategy right now, which I'm not a legal expert.

I'm not going to pretend to know how that would play out. But I think it's going to be a very contentious issue because if the mayor can truly enforce those lease extensions, if she can prevent Monumental from paying off the bond on the lease, then that would be a huge deal because they would be breaking the lease 20 years early if she can't do that. If Monumental can pay it off, then they can get out of the lease in 2020. Well, it's got to spell it out as to whether or not they can pay it off early. No, it does spell it out that they can pay it off early. That is a fact. That's in the lease.

Right. Then how can she stop them from paying it off early? I think that she's threatening to not cash the check basis. So, look, one of the things I've talked about is it relates to this story. first of all, I think Ted and monumental, I think their lack of self-awareness as to, A, their sort of place in the market, and then B, what the reaction would be from a lot of people is somewhat stunning. But then again, maybe not so much because I think there's a ton of arrogance there. But beyond that, I think what I really took out of this story, and I would urge everybody to read it.

And I know a lot of you are completely apathetic about this subject. It's just nowhere near as important as what Washington does at number two at the end of April, which will ask Sam about here in a moment. But it really is a fascinating story in that they've got Ted, they've got the mayor, they've got everybody on record. And it's like this very interesting chronological tale of how they got to where they were. but the gist of it is is that Ted, for those that say Ted always was going to leave,

it was always his plan. It's not what this story says at all. It's not what anybody says in this story. In fact, if the city had been more up front, I believe, in early September, they'd still be here because they wouldn't have gotten as far down the road as they ultimately got

with Virginia, which then it became too late for the 11th hour, you know, offer of $500 million to the city. But that's the way I would kind of sum it up is that I'm not the biggest Ted fan, Sam, for a lot of reasons, including, you know, the team that I care about most that he owns has been an abject disaster for so long. But I just, I have a hard time not understanding how, frustrated he must have been during this process?

I think that throughout this process, the question has been, did D.C. fumble it, did Virginia steal it? Did Ted have this engineered the entire time? And he made it happen that way. I think this reporting shows, to your point, this was not a grand plan master engineered by Ted Leontes.

This was some combination of the two first options. I think that this, this is something that came to TED through JBG Smith, the real estate developer, and kind of progressed from there. Simultaneously with the city fumbling all over themselves. Your words, not mine. But I mean, whether it's those words or just lacking the urgency to get it right and to get it done. I mean, that's a given, right? I think that there is some combination here of logistical problems, right?

Because the debt ceiling was real. Like, the debt cap was very real. They had no wiggle room there. But I do think, you know, monumental probably feels that the city could have handled this better. And I do also want to say that when John Falkiio, the former deputy mayor, who was basically running point on these negotiations, when we talked about the three options that they discussed in early 2022,

about, hey, how do we address our concerns about cap one? John Telchicchio was the point man on that. And so he resigned amid allegations of sexual harassment in March of last year. And I think that that was a big deal because John was the guy that they were negotiating with. And the city, you know, struggled from there to get a coordinated effort to Leonces. So I think that there's a lot of factors of play here, right? Yeah. No, and I, and that's the part that I referred to.

It was John Falciccio, if that's how you pronounce it, who met with Ted in his office at Capital One. And the conversation, the music from the street was loud enough to sort of interrupt their conversation, which I'm sure for Ted was like, see? I mean, we got, we, and by the way, there's a reference here to him, like, moving. It's not that he soundproofed his office, but he somehow moved, was a pieces of furniture in front of the windows to try to help. sort of muffle some of the noise that was coming from the street. Like that was an area of frustration for him, clearly.

Yeah, I believe he put up, it was cardboard or plywood or something over his window to reduce the noise. And so, yeah, that has been a long, a long-time frustration. And a colleague of mine, Paul Schwarzen, wrote a separate story just about the Basker. One Buster in particular who really bothered monumental, and I would encourage people to go read that if they want to learn more about the busking situation. Yeah, that's, for those that don't understand that, that's like, you know, street music, street performance, street art, etc., which has always been a big part of that area of the city, but was disruptive to, you know, some of the businesses that were in the area, at least

according to Ted. So what happens here? Project what happens next. Man, I mean, that's a really difficult question. that I think people even like in involved in these discussions, in these different, you know, organizations are still trying to figure out. I mean, it's funny to me because, you know, my friends, some people who don't even live here have been like, oh, I thought the bill in Virginia was dead because, you know, a politician

down there said it's dead. And Louise Lucas does have a lot of power here. She's a very powerful Democrat. But I don't think it's dead. I think she's playing political hardball here, and I think that if I had to guess, I mean, I'd put this somewhere around Ted going to Virginia. I put it around 60, 40. 60 yes to Virginia, 40, no. Yes, correct.

I think we're still really early on here. It's probably like the fourth inning if we're talking about a baseball game to mix metaphors here. But I would say, like, if anyone tells you it's for sure happening or it's for sure not happening, they don't know they're talking about. Right. If it didn't happen because Virginia politicians and NIMBY's and everybody else that doesn't want it to happen end up sort of winning the day, I mean, how much leverage does that give the city in that moment?

A lot. I mean, Ted would have to come back basically tail between his legs and say to the mayor, okay, let's figure out how to move forward on cap one. And if that happens, I mean, the mayor, I mean, early on, the mayor was very conciliatory, right? Like, hey, we hope Ted changes his mind. We'll work together, things like that. But, I mean, she wrote an op-ed in our paper that basically poked him in the eye and said, you know, threatened litigation. And so if Virginia doesn't work out, if the Virginia, you know, legislator, legislature votes it down or Alexandria voted down,

is the mayor going to leave $500 million on the table for Ted? I would be surprised if that's the case. But if she does, you know, then I think, you know, you'll get a deal done. But what does that deal look like if you have to come back here and Virginia is not on the table? I don't know. You know, the one thing that I don't think I've really seen written about or talked about enough, you know, especially in any sort of quantifiable terms, is what these two teams actually leaving Capital One really does mean. I think we all just assume it would be devastating to that area, an area that had been

revitalized. I mean, I remember Chinatown before MCI Center moved down there. I remember what this city was like in so many different neighborhoods, and it was the beginning of what became, you know, an incredible revitalization of the city and the development of, you know, other neighborhoods that were really distraught. And I don't, we just, all assume if it leaves Chinatown, that Chinatown and city center and Penn Corridor and everything around that is going to fall apart. But I don't know that anybody's actually done, you know, any sort of, you know, research or had anybody that would project what, what it would mean. I don't know. Maybe you've seen it. I mean, I think that people have looked at this,

but I don't think there's like a clear definitive dollar value that we can put on, you know, how devastating it would be to the city. All right. While we have Sam here, just let me ask you two things about our football team. Number one, just give me your overall impression of, let's just say, the last five weeks. You know, since Ron Rivera was fired, and if you had to describe the last five weeks to somebody who wasn't paying attention to it, what would you say? I would say there's reason for optimism, cautious optimism. Obviously, you go out and you land. probably the top name on the GM market in Adam Peters. And, you know, you don't get the splashed-iest head-to-tire,

but I do think the staff that Dan Quinn has built does inspire a lot of confidence. Now, you can look at the Carolina Panthers of last year and say, oh, you know, all-star staff don't necessarily work out. You know, there's guys who have worked together before. Maybe there's personality conflict. Maybe there's backstabbing. Maybe there's inefficiency at large, and you can say that that was a great example of how that fell apart. But when you look at a second time head coach and Dan Quinn and you look at the people that he's brought in and the track records that they've had, I think you have to say, okay, like this organization, if they can hit on a quarterback, they have a chance to be good.

You know, how good? I don't know. What exactly does that mean? TBD, but I think that you have the building blocks for a successful organization in some capacity. Do you have any sense of what Adam Peters, Dan Quinn, the decision makers, maybe Kingsbury with some input as well, the type of quarterback that they'll be looking for? Do you have a guess right now and what they'll do at number two? Two parts of that question. The first one is I think that Peters and Quinn, et cetera, have spent most of the last month putting together the staff,

putting the building blocks in place to then evaluate their own team internally. I know that Cliff Kingsbury and others have spent last week evaluating the team internally. What do we have? What do we need? Obviously, they're going to be mindful of quarterback. But as we've talked about for the last 30 minutes, and I don't know if I did a great job explaining it. Like, that story about Monumental was super complicated and took up

a lot of my time. I thought you guys did a great job, actually, with it. I mean, I would not have reached out and called you to talk about this if I didn't think it was a really compelling read for a number of reasons. Because I promise you or as much as I can with the audience that I connect to every day on radio and on this podcast, while people are concerned, it's

nowhere near the level on the priority list that I think Ted and the monumental people think it is. I mean, if you had a poll on you get the commanders back at RFK, but you've got to give up the caps and wizards going to Northern Virginia, it'd be 90-10. I mean, probably more like 95-5 in favor of the football team coming back to the RFK. which, by the way, speaks to why maybe the mayor was more focused on that. But anyway, continue. So, I mean, my end to that was I haven't had a chance to dig in on Caleb or Drake or Jaden. I haven't had a chance to watch them extensively.

But, I mean, look, Cliff Kingsbury, when we talked to him last week, said he wants a guy like Patrick Mahomes, right, who he coached at Texas Tech. And it was interesting to me that, like, the three traits that he kind of singled out were work ethic and leader. leadership, which yeah, of course. And then he said mobility. You know, you watch the end of the Super Bowl, the way that Purdy and Mahomes were able to create and extend plays with their legs.

I mean, everybody coming to the league has got some element of mobility, right? I mean, all three of those guys, Williams-May and Daniels do. But I do wonder, you know, like Jayden Daniels, I know his stack rate was high last year. And so I wonder, and you saw Sam Howell,

even though he can create with his leg and took a lot of stack. I wonder if mobility and extending plays and creating plays, one thing that I'm curious about when I go dive into these guys is how much does it matter that they use their legs in a really smart way? Not just to create explosive plays, you know, like a Lamar Jackson or a Kyloor Murray, but how important is it to avoid the big negative? Because if you look at that, I think that, you know, kind of going on a tangent here,

but one of the things that Mahomes does that I think that people don't appreciate is like, yeah, you see the highlight, you see what he does, right? The big throws, the left-handed, the no look, blah, blah, blah. But, like, he almost never makes negative plays. Exactly. And he very rarely takes back. His stack rate is always one of the lowest in the NFL. And as we saw with Sam Hal,

you're a massive problem and you got to avoid those. Totally agree. Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Hope you're well. Of course. Thanks for having me, man. Sam 40A, Washington Post, everybody.

A few more things to finish up the show right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This final segment of the show, brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. You'll get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. Make MyBooky your home for March madness. They'll have everything. Conference tournaments, NCAA tournament, both men and women. Plenty of contests as well on the site. MyBooky always has it all during the month of March. MyBooky.org promo code Kevin, D.C. There's breaking news. I was going to end with something different, but I will end with this. The Lerner family is not selling the Nationals anymore. The Post had this story from just moments ago. Mark Lerner down in West Palm Beach site of spring training was asked about whether or not the team was still on the market. And he said, quote, no, we have determined, our family has determined that we are not going to sell the team, closed quote. He also said that this decision was reached, quote,

a while ago, closed quote. And then he said, quote, nothing has really changed. We've just decided that it's not the time or the place for it. We're very happy owning the team and bringing us back a ring one day, closed quote. Might have to be a little bit more aggressive in free agency than they've been. Look, this has been going on for nearly two years. It didn't occur to me until I read it in the story that it was in April of 2022 that the family decided and announced that they would explore selling the team. Now, remember, I mean, they had the worst of luck. They win a world series. The pandemic hits and shortens the season the following year. And the big, big boon that every first time winner of a championship experiences in a city. They were not able to take advantage of.

And then you had commercial real estate, which is the family's big business, suffering dramatically. It's not that they were ever going to go poor, but this is an ownership group that does, you know, get into business to make money. And so they look to sell the team and they never got their price. Maybe it's a good thing they didn't get their price because if they had gotten their price, I wonder, if Ted Leonis would be the owner right now, with the help of maybe David Rubinstein, who bought the Orioles. But my reaction to this is twofold. One, I'm glad that the learners are remaining the owners for one reason more than any other. I didn't want Ted to buy the Nats. I didn't want him to own three teams in the market when he hasn't been an exceptional owner for the two teams that he has.

On the flip side, man, the learners, they've spent big time in the past on players, never managers, never general managers, even though they've had one of the best. And it would be nice to see them now that they've decided, even though it was a while ago, we didn't see much activity in free agency. It would be nice to see as with a very young nucleus, they position Mike Rizzo and give him the ability, say, this time next year, or certainly this, time 10, 11 months from now to add some big time players to a team that could be on the verge in 2025, 2026 of contending. One other quick thing before we leave, the NBA All-Star game got a lot of reaction from a lot of people and it was mostly negative. I didn't watch the game start to finish. I turned it on for here and there. I mean, the 211 to 186 final score, I think really set people off. But look, if you think that this is new other than the actual 211 points scored,

this has been the type of game we've watched for five to seven years. It's not a competition. For those that are outraged and want major changes, first of all, that horse left the barn a while back. All right, players are in load management, you know, during real games. They're not going to go all out in an all-star game. This is. is not a competition. It hasn't been a competition for a while. It's an exhibition. If you view it that way, I think it's easier to deal with. If not, just don't watch it. And if you are really yearning for what it used to be years and years ago, you're never getting that back. Never. You're not going to get these players who regularly take time off from real games to go super

hard during what is a break for the rest of the league. The shooting is just fucking amazing. I mean, Damien Lillard hit two half-court shots. It's an exhibition of skills in a quasi-game format. I'm not worked up over it at all. I mean, it's not been for me. None of these All-Star games have been for me. The All-Star weekend, really not much at all.

I saw highlights of MacLung's, you know, dunk contest win again. Good God, it's 6-2. Not only the hops, but the creativity that goes with it. All right, I'm done for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.