The Kevin Sheehan Show - Mahomes vs Brady + Stafford?

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Cooley and Kevin recap both of the Championship games before getting to Matt Stafford's availability via trade. What's he worth? Will Washington be interested? Should they be? How much competition for him and much more on today's show.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Right, but it was just, yeah, anytime it doesn't work out. You always regret it, right? But it was just the circumstances of having three shots and coming away with no yards.

And knowing that you not only need the touchdown, but you'd need the two point. So the way I was looking at it was we essentially had four timeouts with the two-minute warning. And, you know, we knew we needed to get a stop. And I thought we were going to have a stop there at the end. But, you know, we got called for the PI. And it didn't work out. So I think any time something doesn't work out, do you regret it?

Sure. but we're always going to be process driven here. And the way our defense was battling, the way our defense was playing, felt like it was the right decision to do. And it just didn't work out. Yeah, that wasn't my decision. I understand the thinking above two minutes with all of our timeouts. But yeah, there wasn't my decision.

Matt Lafleur first, Aaron Rogers, second. Cooley and Kevin on a Monday, following the two championship games, plenty to get to, including since we last had our show, Matt Stafford officially available to be traded for. We'll get to that. Aaron Rogers might be available to be trading for. We'll get to that. It's Chiefs, it's Bucks in Super Bowl 55. But I want to start with the two sound bites coming out of the open there. Matt LaFleur, you know, explaining why he kicked the field goal on fourth and goal at the eight. Aaron Rogers saying it wasn't my decision.

I'll add to that. Aaron Rogers also said that it was not his. He didn't know that it was going to be a field goal and fourth down. He was allowed to call the third down play, and maybe he would have called a different third down play, had he known it was not two down territory. Let's start there with what was by far and away the most discussed decision of the day. and in that game there were lots of decisions, there were lots of calls, etc. But what did you think when they brought the field goal kicker out with two minutes and nine seconds left in a 31-23 game?

Never. I would have never done that. Would you have done that? No, no. I just, I can't. But there's a lot of reasons I wouldn't have done it. Yeah. Because there are situations where I would have done it. Sure. That's not a situation that I would have done it. No. Not Aaron Roger. I don't know. I mean, why didn't Aaron Rogers run it in on third down? Do you think he made it? I've watched that play a bunch. Huh?

Because he would have. You think he would have? I think it would have been really close. Well, it sure makes that fourth down decision a lot easier. No doubt. No doubt. Although apparently Aaron Rogers called that play, and he probably would have called something different if he knew it was four down territory. I think that's bullshit. went back and watched the entire Aaron Rogers presser. He's so smug. I watched the 13 minutes of Aaron Rogers. I didn't watch all 13 minutes. Why was he smug? He just is. I don't know.

Look, I spent, I was up a little bit early and I was looking at all the stuff and there's a bunch of analytic numbers that say that it's about the same difference if you kick the field goal right there with three timeouts in the two-minute warning left. God, there were some weird stuff afterwards, too. Oh, yeah. Well, we got plenty of time to get to that. We got a lot of time to it, obviously. But look, I just think with Devante Adams or Tay, as everyone calls him, and Aaron

Rogers and his ability to move, his ability to run, as good as they are, their ability to score down there. The idea that Tom Brady is not going to get a first down is insane. as good as they'd been Tampa had been in third down situations. They were still able to run the ball a little bit. I just think there was so much to it that you just needed more than three there. I just, I had the sense, I'm sure so many people had the sense watching that they weren't going to get the ball back. Yeah, so, I mean, we're starting there.

And God, there was a lot that followed. First of all, the Matt Lafleur soundbite is flawed. It's flawed because he said, we had the fourth timeout at the two-minute warning. The truth is they shouldn't have had the fourth timeout. The only way that that was guaranteed is if Mason Crosby kicked it out of the end zone. Kicked it out of the back. Yeah, once he kicked it short, which, by the way, he did all day long.

There were a lot of kickoff returns, and I'm assuming it was cold or maybe it was in that direction. But once Mickens came out, for whatever reason, he gave himself up. Now, I'll give you one of the reasons he may have gave himself up, but the best play was for him to return it to, by the way, better than the 17-yard line and also to burn the five seconds so that they didn't have to take a snap before the two-minute warning. So Matt Lafleur, to assume in kicking the field goal, which, by the way, ended with 205 left, to assume that he was going to get a fourth timeout that being the two-minute warning is really flawed. There's no way he should have assumed that unless he knew that Mason Crosby was going to kick

it out of the end zone, and he didn't even come close to kicking it out of the end zone. He kicked it down to the eight-yard line. It was a pooch kick. Yeah, it was more of a pooch kick. He didn't even try to kick it out of the back of the end zone. Yeah. I'm just sitting there watching it like, are they trying to get to the two-minute warning here and why? Yeah.

So that was, that was flawed. Look, I've said this before about the down-eight situation. I think people, when, I think it's such an inaccurate way to describe down-eight as down-eight. one score because I've mentioned that many times in the past. The likelihood down eight, and it's just a slight likelihood, is that it is a two-score game, not a one-score game, because the average hit on a two-point conversion is less than 50%. So more likely than not, even if, you know, the two-point conversion percentage is 48 or 49% or whatever it is in any given year or for whatever it is for your team, it's typically not above 50% from

most teams, and therefore it is a two-possession game more likely than not. With that said, it's at the eight-yard line, it's fourth and goal, it's 3123, it's Aaron Freaking Rogers that you have, and the other team has Brady, and more than just Brady, has a very aggressive offensive head coach who's always been aggressive. So your chances of getting the ball back with the amount of time that you think your three timeouts or four timeouts if you include the two-minute warning are going to give you isn't going to be very great. And the ball being at the eight-yard line, I'd rather miss and have them start at their own eight with that.

And by the way, then you are guaranteed the fourth timeout. If you go for the fourth or two minutes and nine seconds left, they're probably going to have to snap it before the two-minute warning from their own eight-yard line. I think you've got almost a better chance of getting the ball back because of field position and because you guarantee yourself that other time out. So it was just wrong. It was not the right thing. And I've seen all of the, you know, it drives me nuts,

but I get all the stuff. And a lot of it is because one of my boys sends me all the analytics stuff. And truly, the analytics all came in on maybe, maybe going for it, gave you a half of 1% of win probability advantage. It really, now, but again, does that stuff factor in Aaron Rogers versus an aggressive Brady when they get the ball back. I don't think so. Field position was so crucial there.

I just thought that Matt LaFleur really made the wrong decision, and I would have put the ball in Brady's hands for another play, even though Cooley, more likely than not, okay, at least, let's just call it 48% on the two-point conversion. Even if you score there, it might be 3129, and you may be kicking off, you know, with three timeouts left, hoping to get the ball back for field goal range. Yeah, but then you only need a field goal.

You only need a field goal. And if you miss it, again, the field position had something to do with it. Somebody put this out, and I'll read it to you. There are two other games in the last 20 seasons where a team was down between four and eight points in the final five minutes of a playoff game and chose on fourth down to kick a field goal. In 2013, the Saints had a fourth and 15 down 16 to 8 with 356 to go against the Seahawks and kicked a field goal. I don't remember that game, but I can tell you based on the description, I would have kicked the field goal. It's fourth and 15, the ball's at the 30, and there are four minutes left. So I would have kicked the field goal to get to 16, 11.

They apparently missed the field goal, lost the game. In the 2010 wildcard game between the Colts and the Jets, the Colts had a fourth and six at the Jet 14-yard line, down 14 to 10 with 441 left, and they kicked a field goal to make it 14-13. They got the ball back, kicked another field goal to take the lead 16, 14, with 53 seconds left, and then lost the game on a field goal at the gun. The Jets got in field goal range, kicked a field goal at the gun in Las

17, 16. The fourth and six at the 14, down 14, 10 with 441 left with Peyton Manning as my quarterback. I don't remember the context of the game. I remember the Jets had some really good defensive teams, and the fact that I only had 10 points in the game may have, I may have said, yeah, I'm going to kick the field goal because my defense is going to get a stop back and we're going to win it on a field goal. But yesterday, uh-uh, Aaron Rogers, and then if I, if I kicked the field goal, Brady and Bruce Ariens, they're going to be aggressive trying to end the game on offense. Now, I have gotten three interceptions in Brady's last four possessions, but still, I would have, I don't think I would have, I just, I was shocked. I was really shocked.

On one hand, it's funny, Cooley, because I was like, at least there's a coach that recognizes an eight-point game is not necessarily a one-possession game. because it's such a flawed, you know, premise when you always hear, and the announcers say it all the time. They've got to get it to within one possession. They're down 24-16, one-possession game. No, more likely than not, it's a two-possession game. And you should be thinking that it's a two-possession game. When you're down eight, there's nothing more frustrating for me than watching the team

that takes its time as if this is their last chance. They've got a chance to tie. They're going to tie the game if they score a touchdown. No, there's actually less than a 50-50s. chance that you're going to tie the game with the touchdown. Anyway, bad move by Matt Lafleur. And by the way, could be a very costly move. This could create quite the contentious, if it wasn't going to be already with a loss,

situation between Aaron Rogers and the Packers. They drafted Jordan Love. That was a problem. It traded up to draft Jordan Love. Yeah, exactly. I just can't imagine him playing with anybody else. Can you? No.

Do you think he will? Be insanity. Do you think he will? No. I don't either. But I... What if he says I'm going to retire if you don't trade me to San Francisco? Why does he want trade it?

Because I think the Jordan... The Jordan Love thing upset him? Yeah, and maybe the... Maybe yesterday... I think Rogers and the floor have a good relationship. At least it seemed to that way to me, and that's... only watching some of the press conferences and some of the after game stuff on the on NFL. But every time Rogers is talking about him, he's calling him Maddie and talking about play

sequences and things that Maddie's doing. And yeah, I feel like they have a good relationship. LeFleur has let Aaron Rogers be Aaron Rogers. Clearly, he's letting him call some of the plays, do some of the things he wants. He's designing the offense for Rogers. it was a great season for Aaron what would be the problem here what would be the dysfunction in this relationship that the organ is one yeah that the organization

drafted Jordan Love but that might have been for three years down the road just like when they drafted Rogers for FAR I know but remember that I guess he wants out now he wants to be the one in control of his own destiny so they don't do what they did to Brett So a couple things.

One, you know, I listen to this Pat McAfee thing every Tuesday because he's got Aaron Rogers on his show on Mad Dog. And it's such a great segment. I actually really like listening to Rogers. And I agree with you. I think he's, he has, he realized that this scheme and LaFleur was, it was really good for him. And I think that that relationship was good. I think the relationship with the organization has always been in question. that Jordan loved draft choice being the most recent, but let's also keep in mind.

And I don't have the stat in front of me, but I remember reading, you know, all of the greatest quarterbacks of his era have had all of these weapons and these, you know, first round picks. The dude Mercedes-Lewis, who he threw a touchdown to early this year, and I forget what game it was in. I just remember that in that particular game, that guy, I think that's what his name was, Mercedes Lewis. I could be wrong. He played for the Jaguars. He's the big tall tight end. Yeah. And he was in Green Bay. And when he caught a touchdown pass in a game earlier this year, it was the first time Aaron Rogers had thrown a completed pass to a first round pick as a receiver or a tight end. I think that's what it was. And all of these other guys have had these

weapons over the years. Now, Devante Adams is quite the weapon. What's his face? Jordie Nelson was a really good wide receiver, right? He was. It was awesome. So, you know, the draft status, you know, isn't necessarily, you know, the thing. But I think that maybe he's just been frustrated over the years with the organization maybe to a certain degree, not, you know, always giving him what he needed. I don't know. Fair enough, but when you draft or when you pay a quarterback like you're paying Aaron Rogers,

You got to draft defense. Yes. Yeah. When he's counting 37 million against the cap. So you got to acquire defense. And they haven't. You got to acquire them through the draft. And they haven't been great defensively.

Have they had one really good defensive team with him there? They've never been terrible. You know what this dude does? He's like, so number one, I would be very surprised. if he's not in a Green Bay uniform next year. Number two, if he really wants out, he really can put the pressure. You know, things are changing here a little bit, and I don't want the NFL to turn into the NBA.

But, you know, we're seeing sort of the players have more say in everything. And he can, at 38 years old, or whatever he is right now, 37 or 38 years old, he can say, if you don't trade me, I'm retiring. He could say that. And the Packers could play hardball. But he is such a legend, you know, maybe they would move on from him. They drafted his replacement, his eventual replacement. You can't describe that as anything but that.

When you move up and you draft a quarterback in the first round, you're saying to your legend, we think you've only got a little bit of time left, like a couple of years. And, you know, I guess he could demand his way out. Maybe Green Bay would oblige, but Green Bay doesn't have to. You know, he's under contract through the 2023 season. He's not, this is not Brady from last year. Brady was a free agent, you know, and the Deshawn Watson situation is even different because Deshawn Watson's 25 and he just got this deal eight months ago.

So if I were Houston, I'd actually play hardball with Watson. I'm not giving him up unless it's a boatload. And then you get into, well, you know, where do you want to go? because that team, you know, now all of a sudden we're not getting back what we think we should get back for you. This is our, we got some situations, man. Stafford, Watson, Rogers now into the fray. Although I don't, I just can't imagine Aaron Rogers isn't playing for Green Bay next year. And either. I just liked it two weeks ago you wanted me to commit to the three quarterbacks on the roster for Washington. You just can't commit because you don't want to be wrong.

Well, I didn't want to commit to the three quarterbacks on the roster. I didn't want to commit to the three quarterbacks on the roster. I know you didn't say it for that purpose. Who's going to get more in trade? Aaron Rogers or Deshawn Watson? Deshawn Watson. Do you think people are going to give up more for Watson? I think 25 versus 37 is a big difference.

And I also think that, I'd have to compare the contracts in terms of what the cat. I'm looking at it right now, actually. I just pull it up. The contract's not going to change the cap, but the trade. Aaron Rogers has a $37 million, then $39 million cap at the next two years. That's a big difference to 21 and 23. I think it is with Watson.

So that is a big difference. I just, I really don't understand why he keeps talking about. I think it's close. Well, the package for Watson, everybody is saying three first plus. You know, that's why the Jets, and apparently he has said, Jets or Dolphins, either one. By the way, is it relates to this? Washington's not getting Aaron Rogers and they're not getting Deshawn Watson.

No, because they're going to get Matt Stafford, your guy. Well, he's the one that's in play. I think it's actually not, I don't think they're going to be the favorite to get Matt Stafford either. but Aaron Rogers is not going to demand a trade to come here. He's going to go to San Francisco or L.A. Or, you know, he's going to go somewhere. You know, I think he's got a house in Southern California.

He's not coming here. You know, Deshawn Watson, there are too many teams with much more trade capital. And by the way, if Green Bay trades him, boy, to trade him to an NFC team. But then again, if you're Aaron Rogers, would you want to be traded to an AFC? team and have to beat Mahomes and or Josh Allen to get back to win a Super Bowl or to get back to one? No. If that's the only thing you're thinking about, I don't know if that's all he cares about.

He seems like the kind of guy that maybe just wants to be where he wants to be. He doesn't want to be in Green Bay. Maybe that's a big part of it. I think he... Green Bay already sensed that anyway, and that's why they drafted the replacement. I mean, Rogers's voice. I don't really love it here. Is it a chance to leave?

I'll leave. Isn't it true that Rogers has never been like the most beloved teammate? That's what I've heard from everyone all the time, that he's abrasive from the day that he got there with Farv. But that's how Farv treated him. He's also so great, isn't he? He's really, really good. It really is. He makes some throws.

You just, wow. He used a couple throws in that game, though. Let's get to that game. Let's start with that game, and then we'll get to the Kansas City Buffalo game, and then we'll circle back to the Matt Stafford conversation, and we'll start all of that right after this word from one of our sponsors. This one's picked up by his teammate. Kevin White back in the end zone touchdown, Brate.

That was Tom Brady to Cameron Brate after the early third quarter turnover. was 28 to 10, and Tampa seemingly was on to, on their way to an easy route of Green Bay at Lambo. But it didn't exactly go that way. I have a lot of notes from this game. Can I go through a few of them with you, and then you just interject wherever you want, or you can wait and just add yours at the end? We could do, we can absolutely do that. Can we start with just this one thought? Yeah. Weird. Tom Brady's in the super. Super Bowl again. It's just, it's amazing.

Come on, man. It's amazing. It's amazing. This guy is unbelievable. He is. He is. And yet, you know, who had Brady throwing three interceptions in the second half and still winning the game?

I'll actually, I want to go through it chronologically, but I want to get to a thing about Rogers that we didn't touch on in the open. And that was, Rogers had his chances, you know. in many ways, he takes, in my opinion, a big part of the blame for the loss because he had the ball three times in the fourth quarter, twice down 28, 23, and once down 31, 23, and did not get it done. But I wanted to start early in the game because I thought there were a couple of like crucial plays early in that game that probably kept the game from getting sideways early. First of all, you know, Tampa Bay started the game seven of eight on third down.

And they weren't short ones. A lot of them weren't short ones. They had a third and 14 that they got on a bubble screen. And not only that, Brady was once again, like he's had throughout this postseason, he was having people drop balls on him. I mean, Godwin had another drop. Evans had a big drop in the second half. Fournette dropped, you know, one or two.

I think he had four or five drops in the game. But I thought there were a couple of really huge plays. You know, first of all, Green Bay down seven to nothing, had a third and 15 from their own five-yard line. And they had already punted their first drive. Tampa Bay had already taken a seven-nothing lead, and then Tyler Johnson actually dropped a pass. Tyler Johnson, another one, on a big play that would have led to Tampa Bay having a two-score lead on their second drive. but third and 15 from their end zone, and I don't know about you, but on those first two drives, I could already see Tampa's a much different defensive animal for Green Bay than what we've watched here the last few weeks. And to be fair, Aaron Donald was not Aaron Donald last week, and maybe the Rams would have been more of a problem for Green Bay had Aaron Donald been healthy. But you could tell he was under pressure, and yet he makes this incredible throw rolling right almost

at the sideline and he throws to Lazard. And I thought, like, and I knew it was early and there was a lot of game left, but I'm like, man, that was a massive play for the Packers. Because this thing's about to be Tampa inside Green Bay territory going, you know, for a 14-0 lead early. That was a massive play. That was a great play call, too. They rolled him out.

Yeah, but it didn't it look like no one was going to come open? Sure, felt like that for a minute. But do you not think that Aaron Rogers off script? And I don't even think that was off script. That was just in timing of the rollout. Do you not think he's going to find a dude? He did. It's still third and 15 from your own five-yard line.

You know, for most mortals, that's, you know, 15%, you know, maybe 20, maybe a one-and-five. I mean, I'm sure for him it's a two out of five. it's closer to 40%, but that was a massive play in the game. I mean, it was huge. It really is a good play call, though, because you're trying to avoid holding in the end zone as well. Three plays later, you know, Valdez Scantling, touchdown at 7-7.

I wanted to just throw in Fournette. I don't know why Fournett only got 12 carries in this game, especially at the end of the game. They went exclusively with Ronald Jones. I read nothing about Fournet being hurt. in this game, but playoff Lenny had it going again. And that touchdown run was outstanding. And somebody, a friend of mine texted me, he said, my God, I heard you say the other day,

this guy's like a different guy in the postseason. I watched him during the regular season two. What happened? I go, I don't know what happened. But this guy really stepped it up in the postseason, and he only got 12 carries. Anyway, it's 14 to 7. and then Green Bay gets that first and goal situation on that next drive. And they throw the quick out, back-shouldered Adams at the goal line.

Adams dropped that, don't you think? That was a drop. Yeah, I thought so. And then they get two more shots, and that was huge that they held them to a field goal there. And it's 14 to 10. You know, by the way, I wanted to mention also at the end of the half, there was a third, so it's 1410, and Tampa gets stopped and they're forced to punt, all right? And so now Green Bay's got the ball back with about two minutes to go.

And by the way, I had three and one on the smell test. Your lock of the week came through with the over in the Kansas City game. The only thing that missed for me was the under in the Green Bay Tampa game. I had Tampa, the under, I had the over in the second game, and I had Kansas City. So I had a three-and-one smell test weekend. But I really wanted the score to be kept down in this game, but I also wanted Tampa to win outright. I played Tampa on the money line as well. But there was a play late in the first half where Green Bay has a third and like seven from their own 16-yard line, 15-yard line, something like that.

And there's a false start on the Green Bay left tackle that is so egregious. It's not a Morgan Moses. You think it's a false start? It was just a false start. The guy moved back and the play went on and Rogers throws the ball 23 yards to Lazard and all of a sudden they're out at the 40-yard line. There was not one penalty called in the first half of this game. Not one.

This was the continuation in the postseason of letting them play, but even times two because it would be a couple of plays later where Rogers got intercepted by Murphy Bunting at mid-Fent. field on clear hold. That was a clear hold. Clear hold. On Murphy Bunting holding Lazzard, but they let it go. And of course, I bring that up because we'll get to the end of the game when, you know, when they converted on the Tyler Johnson pass in a DPI play on third down that it essentially ended the game. So Cooley, this was weird at the end of the first half. First of all, do you know after they completed that ball to Lazard for 23 yards when they missed the false start, they weren't going fast.

The ball was at the 40-yard line, and I was struck by, I know they were getting the ball to start the second half, but they weren't aggressive in that particular spot. Green Bay wasn't, which they typically are. They're almost- Well, they had 38 seconds and two timeouts. Balls at the 40-yard line. Yeah, but they have 38 seconds. seconds, two timeouts, and then Rogers takes that sack.

I know he did, but the play, the 23-yard play to Lazard ends, and they don't take a time out. They don't snap the, on that 23-yard play. No, it ends with about 105. They got to take a time out with a minute five. They took 25 seconds. You're right. 25 seconds off the clock. I was like, you know, again, I'm sitting there going.

I don't want Green Bay to score. I want the game to stay under, and I want Tampa Bay to cover. You're always thinking as a gambler, your action. And I'm like, why didn't they call a time out on that play? How many time asked you say they had left at that point? That's crazy.

This is Green Bay. Why do you just get up and run a play? I don't know. It was weird. You didn't play in 15 seconds. The end of the half people forget about because of the end of the game, and we'll get to the next part.

But the whole thing was bizarre. Like, this is Green Bay. They're out at the 40-yard line with a minute five left. You said that play ended? He was tackled with a minute five. And when did they take the next snap? Forty-second, 38 seconds. Why?

You're at the 40-yard line. You've got a chance. You don't want Tom Brady to hit Scotty Miller for 60. Well, but the point is, is you're not thinking that with Aaron Rogers. You're thinking about a touchdown. No question. I just thought the perfect year. Look, this is the, this is the, like, the biggest turning point of this game. Yeah. They got a chance at 1410 to at least make it 1413 and they get the ball to start the second half. Right. I, I just remember going. They could make it 1714. Take the ball to start the second half. Go down and score and take a charge completely take charge of the game. I totally could not. I did not understand what they were doing at all.

It's Aaron Rogers at the 40-yard line with a minute five left. You're not even thinking field goal range. If you watch the Packers, it's like watching the Chiefs. You're thinking if you're Tampa, if you're a Tampa fan or if you've got Tampa, you're like, just please hold them to a field goal. And then you're like, why aren't they calling timeouts? Now we may only get away with holding them. They may only get a field goal now.

What's crazy is Tampa called the timeout after the back. So that leads me to the next thing. The next play was the sack and Tampa called timeout. And Cooley, I was like, don't do that. I don't care what, because it was a first down play, if I recall, right? And then whatever time was left after, I'm like, it's still too much time for Green Bay to get in field goal range. If I were Tampa, I would have said, I'm happy with 14 to 10. Now, as it turned out, it's a good thing they did call the timeout because the next play was the interception.

But, you know, the point being that Green Bay was still slinging it on that next play. They were still trying to score. It was the whole end of the half. I'm wondering if Green Bay would have called timeout after the sack. I don't think they would have. They didn't call it. I'm Green Bay. I'm definitely calling time out.

Okay. Well, they didn't call the time out on the 23-yard play. I know that. So they had already, and after a sack, you think they're going to call the time out? I would have. The whole end of the half was handled poorly by Matt Lafleur, very poorly. And then I'm going to give you why I thought it was handled poorly by Tampa. First of all, the pick, we've already talked about that, which came, you know, on that next play.

And it's definitely a defensive hold out of that break on Lazard by Murphy Bunting. But they're letting them play, and you could see that. So, you know, what was on the clock after that intercept? and help me real quickly because I don't have it. 28 seconds. So, all you, Brady and Tampa Bay have a couple timeouts left if my memory serves me. And all you got to do, if you're Tampa, what are you thinking? You're thinking, we're going to get three more.

It's going to be 17, 10, and halftime. We're going to get 15, 20 yards for our guy. You know, we're probably not thinking touchdown there, you know, because 28 seconds left. But they had a fourth down. They came up with a fourth down play with 13. seconds left, and this is where it got really interesting because they put their punt team on the field first. And I'm sitting there with my son going, God damn it, they should not punt it. I mean, 13 seconds left, even if he throws incomplete, they're going to be what, seven, six seconds left.

So Green Bay's basically got a Hail Mary opportunity from their own 45-yard line. You need to go for this. You've got to throw the ball over the middle. You've got a timeout left, and you can kick a field goal and they changed their mind and they put the offense back on the field, but they had to call their final time out to do it with the punt team out there, which was so stupid. So like, Ariens didn't figure out, wait a minute, why don't we go for this? I think Brady told him let's go for it. No, Brady was over there seemingly fine and then somebody said, hey, get back out there. You saw, there's a shot of Brady. He wasn't sure either. Remember, this is the guy that thought it was going to be fourth down in the Chicago game.

when the play was fourth down. There I am criticizing Brady's clock management. But anyway, you've got to tell me. So now they get the first down, okay? And then, I'm sorry, they had the one time out left. But they called the one to get the offense back. They get the first down on the four net play. And now there are eight seconds left.

And if you're Green Bay, they're not, they clearly are not in field goals. range at the 39. That's 57-year-old. What are you doing? Tell me what Green Bay is fucking doing. I mean, because as rooting for the bucks, I thought, okay, you try to get something quick to the outside and out of bounds because you're out of timeouts. And if you don't get it, you bring the guy on for a 57-yard or suck-up's got a pretty decent-sized leg. Or you throw the Hail Mary on the final play if you don't think he can kick the field goal. And they play man coverage. with a single high safety? How does that happen, Cooley?

I can't answer it. Why would you not be too high? Why are you playing man? Big time, big time frat defense. Why are you playing man coverage on that? It's unbelievable. I mean, they're playing, it looks like they're playing a three-deep zone, but.

Well, 20, King has sky. Scottie Miller. I mean, 3D, it would become man there. It's just crazy. King just gets run by by Scottie Miller. Just the...

So instead of being up 1714 or... 1710. 1, you're down 2110. Well, yeah, it's either going to be 1410, 1710, half time. And instead, you give up a 39-yard cover. I mean, King let him. run right by him.

I just, so I want to. Can Tampa's guy kick a 58 yarder? I have no idea. But you, the one reason you take this shot if you're Tampa right now. So he's got to, he would have to make a 57 yard field goal. You take the shot because you think if you throw a go ball, it's going to be seven seconds. If this ball ends up being incomplete, there's going to be two seconds or one second left on the clock. But if you're facing, you know, if you're facing.

too deep in zone underneath. You're trying to get the ball on a quick out to the sideline to make it a 52-yarder. That's what you're trying to do. That's everybody that watches football knows defensively. You just can't let anybody run by you. And you'd really like them to have to complete a ball in the middle of the field, you know, rather than... No doubt. What's crazy is what they're in is if Scotty Miller on that path that he takes to the, on the go,

if he breaks out, he's going to catch it for 14 yards. Right. King's never going to see him. King's got his back turn to him trying to play quarterback guys. I don't want to miss some of this stuff in the second half, but to me, this had to play into Lefleur's decision too. Mike Petton, the defensive coordinator, allowed Tampa to throw a 40-yard touchdown pass on the last play of the first half in basically man-to-man coverage against a guy

that ran by their guy. And now you're going to tell me that you think you're going to get the ball back for Aaron Rogers? No, I'll take Aaron Rogers over Mike Patton. Thank you in the late game situation, especially after what he did at the end of the first half. The end of the first half was deadly, deadly. First of all, Green Bay not being more aggressive to try to score, made no sense to me. And then obviously the last play of the first half was insane. You know, the first half ends, and I'm just like, wow, Tom Brady, 43 years old. He was 13 of 22 for 202 yards and two touchdowns in the first half. By the way, he had four dropped balls in the first half, too.

If not, he would have been like 17 of 22 for 240, you know, and Rogers was getting pressured. Like, Tampa was the better team in the first half. And bowls, you know how much I love him. I was like, man, he is, Brady hasn't faced this in weeks. Not since the last time they faced Tampa Bay. Rogers. Rogers. And by the way, they didn't have Antoine Winfield Jr.

Shaq Barrett was unbelievable. Jack Barrett was so good. You know the other thing you missed right at the end of the first half is Will Redmond dropped an easy pick, short-armed it. Yeah. You wears number 25. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like a second down throw that Brady took a shot down the field before the

Right, right. Just short-armed one. Because I wrote that down right there, like, that would at least in a half for you. Exactly. The third quarter starts with the big, massive hit. And it's Whitehead that makes the hit, the fumble. Aaron Jones is out of the game. By the way, Whitehead ends up being out of the game, which means now with Antoine Winfield,

Jr., having not played, they're down to their third string safety, Tampa is. but immediately Brady hits Brate easy touchdown. It's 2810. I didn't think that the game was over by any stretch because it is Aaron Rogers. But I just thought at that point Tampa Bay had done two things. One, they were phenomenal on third down

and Green Bay couldn't get them off the field. And remember we said, I said to you and I think you agreed, that Green Bay was going to feel easier than Washington and the Rams felt. I'm sorry, than the Saints in Washington felt for Tampa. I thought they would be more successful offensively because last week, really, the truth of the matter is they got four turnovers, which is why they beat the Saints. It wasn't because they had a prolific offensive day. And then the other part of it was that

Todd Bowles figured out a way to make Aaron Rogers uncomfortable. He did. He did it in the first game, and he did it yesterday, and he's got some good players, and Barrett and JPP were outstanding, and Devin White was great, Levanti David was great. they had some great performances. He didn't do anything to figure out a way to make him uncomfortable. It's a freaking rushed four. I thought he was going to have to blitz to get him. He blitzed a lot.

His offensive line looked terrible. He blitzed a lot. He didn't bring five, six a lot, and a lot of the sacks were four-man pressures. Some of them were four-man pressures. I saw this stat. Hold on. I'm going to find it for you. Brady was blitzed 23 times second most in his playoff career.

By the way, Shaq Barrett, seven. pressures, three sacks, and on the other four plays where he got pressures, Rogers was 0 for four in those games, on those plays. And JPP was awesome. And Barrett, so anyway, we get to the second half at 2810. You know, and they get back to 28, they get back to 2816 on that one drive. and then they get a stop. Then all of a sudden Brady starts throwing interceptions. You know, I thought, I thought basically Evans had a big drop, but the interceptions were bad picks by Brady.

I thought even the one that got deflected that Alexander intercepted. It was overthrown. That was a tough catch by Evans. Yeah, I mean, that's a heck of a play by Alexander. Right. But. Oh, one of the picks, there's an unblocked pressure. by Fournett.

That's probably why Fornett came out of the game. Ah. Huh. It was like 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter. Yeah, because he was lined up on the other side and the pressure came from the other side. No, he was lined up. He was lined up dead behind him. Oh, he was.

I think it was an under center play. And he was lined up behind him. And he went left and then saw it late and didn't get back in time. And I'll bet you that's why Fornet came out of the game. I'm sure Brady said, get him out. Can't protect, get them out. So a couple of things real quickly. The touchdown that made it 2823, I've said this a million times,

and the analytics people will completely disagree. You can disagree all you want. And I know that Brown dropped the two-point conversion, but in the third quarter in a 28-23 game where you've got multiple possessions and you know both teams are going to score and you don't know how they're going to score, but they're going to score, I'd kick it to make it 28-24.

I don't go for two until I absolutely have to, and that was not a half-to spot. And obviously that played into the decision at the end where Lafleur treated it sort of like a two-score game at 3123. At 3124, he more likely than not, you know, goes for it, obviously. And I didn't think that was necessary. But before we get to the end, you know, again, I put some of this on Rogers. Rogers is brilliant. I don't need him to win another Super Bowl, just like I don't need Dan Marino to win a Super Bowl to know what I've watched. We've had this conversation before. He's one of the all-time greats. But the bottom line in yesterday's game is that he got the ball down 28-23 after the second Brady interception with 1220 to go and they went three and out. He got the ball back with nine minutes and 15 seconds left down 28-23 after another Brady interception. and they went three and out. He got the ball back with 442 left after the field goal at 3123 and got into a first and goal situation and couldn't punch it in. And so we can say all we want

about the end of the first half, which was terrible by the Packers. Lafleur taking the ball out of Brady's, out of Rogers' hands on the fourth down. The truth is, more likely than not, they would not have scored on the fourth and goal. he didn't deliver. He didn't deliver. It's not all on him. I mean, there was a pressure by Barrett that was so quick. The right tackle never had a shot.

There was a lot of pressure. God, that was such a great jump off the ball. Oh, great, great jump. I watched that like seven times. Just had his body already turned a little sideways. It was awesome. But he didn't, you know, it's not like. He wasn't Aaron Rogers.

He wasn't moving around making those plays. It's not like, you know, the Rogers drove him. took the lead and then the defense gave it up and then Rogers came back and they took the lead and then the defense gave. Nope. Nope. They got three more points the rest of the way. On their final three drives of the game where they were down five twice and eight once they got three points. And they got the ball back on big momentum plays, two interceptions and then holding them to a field goal, which by the way, I thought Brady really gave up on that third and eight so quickly. That was a weird play. You know the play I'm talking about before the field goal that made it 3123?

It was like, he's like, I'm not going to get sacked here. We're in field goal range for an eight-point lead. Anyway, at the very end, we've already talked about what we would have done, obviously, if we were Matt LaFleur. But here's where it gets crazy. So we talked about the kickoff return. Now, what's really interesting, Cooley, 2.02 left. If they did that on purpose for the sole purpose of throwing the ball on first down, Brilliant. It is, but it isn't. Because if you only get five yards on that first down play on a throw,

then Green Bay's gotten the time out without having you gotten a two-minute warning. And even if you get a first down on that first down throw, I don't think that's why they did it. I think he went down because they said, we don't want to risk a fumble. It's not that. Really? It's not that brilliant.

I mean, we both... Well, if they did it because they worked out the way they said it was going to work out, brilliant. Wouldn't you rather have your first snap post two-minute, rather than have it pre-two-minute hoping to get something on a throw on first down? By the way, from your own... Sorry. Yes. So I don't think it's that brilliant.

And they... Aikman's saying, you know, maybe they told him to slide... I'm just thinking like, what the, the whole thing was like a what the hell. I'm watching it going, Mason Crosby clearly hang time pooch kicks it. Yeah, which was stupid. Clear. Like, his approach to it, everything about it. It wasn't that he missed it.

It wasn't that he can't kick it out of the back. He just missed it. Which was stupid. I don't, I have no idea because they should have been able to take it to the two-minute warning there. Then why he slid is probably just a dummy move by a player. ultimately. Yes, I think that's true. He knew that they had the, he knew they had the onsides front up and didn't want to take a, he knew he wasn't getting blocked and didn't want to take a hit and lost track of the situation. That would be my bet. No one told him to slide and save time for a throw. Okay. That just I'm not going to buy into. They should have coached him up. Hey, guy, if there's any chances, balls in play, you got to spend five seconds. Yeah. Don't go backwards. for five seconds. But a normal return is going to be a five-second play.

Sure. A normal, no problem. I mean, actually, I watched it a few times. They could have tackled him in four seconds. But why they would have risked that, I don't know. And then why he was slid, I don't know. And then with 202, they're going to throw it. Like, why you give it up such an easy throw?

Although Cooley, from their own 15-yard line, after they'd give up on the kickoff return. And he's thrown three interceptions in his last four possessions. I know it's Brady. But it really, it really was, it really was, I mean, you always throw, you know, if you can, if you're in that situation before the two-minute warning when it's, when you have no consequence to an incomplete pass. But again, I don't think that that, that opportunity was worth the kickoff for,

turn getting to the two-minute warning. I would never have done that. And for Matt Lafleur to say we knew it four. For Matt LaFleurta say we had four timeouts, the two-minute warning, when your plan is to pooch kick it, that's just that that doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. You have three timeouts in a two-minute warning, which he misspoke. So then we get to the second and one after the two-minute warning. And Green Bay does a very smart thing.

second and one, they jump off sides intentionally. Because I, now, Cooley, why not decline the penalty? No idea. Nobody has, because nobody's thought of that yet. How brilliant, everyone's sitting there saying how brilliant Green Bay is for jumping off sides. And I'm going, no, they're not. They don't have to accept this.

And then finally Buck says, well, they could decline this penalty. You got, you got to, I would decline the penalty. The thing is, is, is, you. guaranteed to use all their timeouts if you accept the penalty. But then if you don't get it, you're giving Aaron Rogers the ball back with a minute 20. Now, yeah, I mean, the bottom line is they have not snapped the ball on the second and one. So if you decline the penalty, the clock stops, but you're coming back and running the second and one. I just sneaked Tom Brady right there.

I would have declined it when quarterback sneak. Yeah. And got a first down, and then the game's essentially over. When we get to the third and four, the play that a lot of people are, I mean, there's so many plays that people are talking about. The throw to Tyler Johnson, where it's, you know, it's an interference on King. What is true is that they let everything go during this game. They decided they were going to swallow the whistle for pretty much the entire game. And the play at the end of the half, the Murphy Bunting Interception, was clearly.

clearly a defensive hold, if not a DPI, depending on where the ball was, and they let it go, and it turned into a be a massive turnaround play at the end of the half for the Buccaneers. This was pass interference. In a normal game, this is called and nobody says anything about it, right? I mean, his jersey is getting yanked and stretched out very obviously, but because the context was they had let everything go during the game, the feeling was they should have swallowed their whistle in that moment. What do you think?

I disagree. I think they should have called the penalty on Murphy Bunting on the interception. I think they clearly missed that. But Johnson's got a white shirt. And when you see the dead end zone copy, that shirt is fully extended and then yanked backwards. And you can't tell me that that ball is not catchable. That ball's got touch on it.

And he yanks Johnson back. And I think Johnson's going to run on. it. It's just terrible defense is what it is. King had a bad day. King cost him a game. I mean, Tyler Johnson's a good player, but that's a rookie. Go cover him. You can't pull him back. And as that jersey, you see the one copy because in the live copy, you're like, that's seriously, you're going to call that. When they show the full end zone clip. Yeah. The end zone thing. Okay. And then the thing is, is that jersey was pulled perfectly for the back judge to see.

And the jerseys extended a full foot. More than a foot. So it wasn't hard. No. It was past interference. There's just, it was clear. You should call it. It wasn't a tic-tac call.

He would have caught that ball if he didn't tug his jersey. He got beat. It was the problem. Yeah. If Green Bay wants to argue that, go talk to King and say, don't get beat. So I'm just going to mention the last minute. and a half because, you know, I can do the math on these things, and it's amazing to me when the coaches can't. They continued to run, and Fournette was back in the game at this point.

They continued to run the ball and run plays. When the truth is, really, if they had done the thing where they snap it and Brady goes back and burns a couple seconds and takes the knee, they basically could have put themselves into a position with about eight seconds left punting the ball, you know, somewhere around eight seconds left. Green Bay, no timeouts left and punting it from, you know, the 50-yard line or whatever. Instead, they're running plays, and they get to the third and five, and it just cracks me up coolly because they call, like, well, let me just say, they obviously wanted to get the first down, okay? So they wanted to get the first down here after the second down play. And they call the timeout with one second left. I'm like,

no, no, no, just take the five-yard penalty. I mean, what do you want the one second for? The one second works against them. Why do you want to give them another second? And Ariens is over there, and I'm like, don't call the time out. Well, the reason he called the time out is they were going to run a play to try to get the first down to end it. But really, all they had to do on that play was with 47 seconds to go at that point. You have Brady, you know, take a few steps, take the knee, and then it's down to, you know,

then you take another penalty with three. seconds to go, and you have Brady in the shotgun throw a bomb out of bounds. You know, roll right and throw a bomb deep down out of bounds, game over. But they went for it, and they not only went for it, they pitched the ball, which I thought was rather risky on the reverse thing, on the fly sweep thing to Godwin, and he got it. But it's just, I don't know, it's like, it's a nitpicky thing. They got the first down.

They went for it. But they literally had Green Bay after that PI in a situation. where they probably would have, worst case, punted with eight, but once they got to this situation, they're throwing a Hail Mary out of bounds with three seconds to go, and the game's over. It's amazing that they can't figure these things out sometimes. Anyway, can you imagine if the pitch gets a little,

Godwin, by the way, has had some bad hands recently. Imagine Godwin loses the pitch and the ball's down on the ground, and somehow Green Pay has the ball, and now all of a sudden? Like, I thought that was risky. I think it's risky, too. If you ever get a coaching job, I'm right there with you. I don't know why this is so complex. I just don't.

If you just take a snapping gun and take two seconds, whatever. It worked out. They got it on third and five. It's just so funny. By the way, how do you get 12 men on the field down there? I know. I know. That was hurtful.

I mean, it was just, I don't know. Green Bay, Tampa played really well, but they, Green Bay lost the game in the second half. They had a chance to take this game over. Shack Barrett, JPP, the Tampa defense won this game. I mean, Brady was given the ball three times and they got three stops, period. Brady had three interceptions in a half and they still won the game. That means the defense did its part by definition. And it did. And there's no doubt that Green Bay, this was not necessarily a replica of the early game this year, but there were a lot of similarities in the pressure that Rogers was under. Rogers has not been under duress like he was in the two Tampa games this year. And that's why

the Super Bowl matchup with bowls against Kansas City without Eric Fisher, apparently torn Achilles, you know, matching up against really, I think, the most uncheckable duo in the league in Mahomes and Hill. It's just such a fascinating matchup. They've got players, they've got a coach that slowed down and beat Brady, beat Rogers twice this year, excuse me. It's a great matchup. It's a great matchup because Tampa will play fearless. Yeah, he's going after him. The Bulls will go after him, and he'll have a plan for it, and they'll play fearless, where everybody else is going to play,

Ben, don't break, try to play soft, keep it underneath. And you just saw, I mean, as we get to that game, we talk about it, but it's so hard to play them that way. Yeah. All right. We will get to the other game, and then the whole Matt Stafford stuff. right after this word from one of our sponsors. Take it and go right there.

We're back to the flat. Here's Mahomes. Look at underhand and he throws it for the touchdown. A little something different. Travis Kelsey has the touchdown. Mahomes to Kelsey, that made it 38 to 15 in the fourth quarter. Kansas City rolls 3824 over Buffalo Cooley. They are back in the Super Bowl,

trying to defend their title against a team that beat him in the postseason in the AFC championship game a few years ago. I say that against a quarterback that beat him in the AFC. It's so funny. Every time I think about the Buccaneers, I keep thinking about the Patriots because of Brady's presence. But anyway, I don't know, like I thought that Shaq Barrett and the defense was great for Tampa, but the two most exceptional players of the weekend were Mahomes and Hill.

and Kelsey is great, and he benefit, but I think there's so much benefit he gets from having Mahomes and Hill. Not that he wouldn't be a standout all-pro player on another team, but 13 catches, 118 yards for Travis Kelsey. He's now in two games, got 21 catches for 227 yards and three touchdowns in the playoffs. Mahomes and Hill, though, are the most difficult stop in the league, right? Mahomes Hill and Kelsey? Yes. They are. Creek Hill is just unbelievable, Kev.

Because you can play soft, and he can still catch it and take it for a big game. He's a lightning bolt, man. God, he's so good. But so is Kelsey. I mean, look, you can talk about benefiting from Tree Kill, but there's stuff. Like, there are times that I'm hard on tight ends. Like you always say you're hard on tight ends. But there's stuff that Travis Kelsey does that you just, gosh, he's a good watch.

I mean, there's a, he's running like a corner stop route in the, I think this first half of this ballgame. So he's pushing to 10 and then sell into the corner to about 14. And he ends up coming back from that at eight yards. He can tell it's soft behind him, and he's got some space underneath, and he climbs back down the hill for like five yards, and he's just such a huge window right there. He's always open. They all benefit from each other.

Yeah, but the chiefs are just dynamic on offense. I don't think there is a combination that's anywhere near in terms of fear-inducing to a defense like Mahomes and Hill. Hill is totally open and then when he gets it he is a threat in any situation on the field to turn it into an extra 15 to 20 yards if not a score. I don't know that we've seen a weapon like him in a long time in the NFL. Diggs isn't in his class. Devante Adams is not in his class.

There's no player that is as uncheckable as Hill. and then he's got the quarterback that right now is the best in the game. It's not debatable. Pat Mahomes is the best quarterback in the NFL, period. Easy. And he was playing on turf toe. Not even a question in my opinion. He was playing with turf toe.

I know he's limping around the whole time running zone reads. I mean, he's just so aware of everything. He's so decisive. He's so good with the ball. They're just, this game, I was hoping for a better game to watch. I know. You like Buffalo. They didn't show up.

They had a 9-0 lead, man. They got a field goal in the opening drive. McColl Hardman botches the punt. They score. They miss the extra point. You know, they were right there. I thought a couple of, one point lead for Kansas. City.

It's true. It's like one point. Like up nine. A Hardman's sitting there like he's distraught on the sideline and I'm going, that didn't matter. I thought the same thing. I thought the exact same thing. And I had Kansas City on the money line.

I had Kansas City minus three. And I'm like, I'm really not worried. And that was great that they missed the extra point. But I also need the over in this game. It would have been great had Buffalo gotten off to a 10-0 lead. I just didn't think, you know, the first drive of the game for Kansas City was their only punt of the game, okay? Understand this, that after the three playing out, which by the way, included a drop by Hill on a long pass down the middle of the field, he dropped it. The rest of their drives were touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, field goal, touchdown, touchdown of game.

That's how it went for them the rest of the way. So, I mean, let's understand that they had the ball on eight drives and basically scored on six of them and decided not to score on the last one because they were just running out the clock. And you almost have to get five drops and eight or nine penalties against Kansas City to stop them. She's not going to. Did you think the end of the half, the fourth and goal at the two for Buffalo when they were down 20? 21-9 was an absolute have-to-go-for-it-s-go-for-tall. I did, too. And McDermott's a guy that goes for it.

I thought so, too. So why didn't he? I can't answer that. I thought that was crazy. With all the options you have with Allen? Yeah. I have no idea. You got to get that game to 21-16 at the half.

What are you sitting there thinking? I don't know. What's going to happen? Kansas City's done? You're going to all of a sudden start holding them to field goals? Well, they did hold them to field goal in the opening drive at the second half. But yeah, it was really, I think that's one of those games. Like if John Harbaugh were coaching, like we've seen him against Kansas City in the past,

he's just like, we're going for every fourth down. We're not kicking field goals. You know, unless it's fourth and 27, we're not kicking a field goal. Like, we can't kick field goals against them and have a chance. and McDermott obviously did not have the same opinion because that's fourth and that's fourth and two. They also had a fourth and three at the Kansas City eight and kicked a field goal. I know. And the second time's inside the 10.

Yeah, I mean, you just can't do that. You just can't be done. By the way, I made this note that Josh Allen takes some of the biggest losses on sacks of any quarter. We had the one remember in the indie game at the end where he fumbled and they were lucky to recover it. He does this and do you know the there was a big sack in the first half. I'm sorry? The sneed. The sneets, exactly.

I went back and watched that play during the game during the commercial. The whistle didn't, he kept trying to escape and they kept letting him try to escape. and they didn't blow the whistle, and yet they marked the loss six yards shorter than what it should have been. They do that a lot with sack yardage because there's this forward progress or this protection of the quarterback. On that particular play, they didn't protect the quarterback because he kept trying to escape and it looked like he was going to. And they didn't blow the whistle, and when they did blow the whistle, the ball should have been like a 21-yard loss. Instead, they marked it as a 15-yard loss. That was the second big sack he took.

Yeah, maybe it was the second one. Maybe it was the second one. They actually got after him in a big way, and I thought Chris Jones was just a beast in the game. I think he's been really good for them. I don't even – did he have a sack? I don't know, man, but they pushed – he was pushing the pocket. Here's what I think about this game.

just in watching this. Two things. It both involved Josh Allen. And Kansas City did have a plan for him. One. And Romo kept saying it, you got to throw underneath, bro. And as they scored late in the game,

when Kansas City wasn't bringing pressure, he hit underneath throw after underneath throw. Like, there was a point where, he threw a seam ball into cover two up the up the corner on a short side of the It was like you can't you this is basic playing cover two you can't make that throw you just throw the kick the kick the quick out that already had leverage and you take five it was beasily josh allen was trying to win the game himself way too early in this game and then the second part of this in this Kansas City had a plan, they know he's going to go backwards in the pocket. It seemed like immense pressure throughout the entire night. But Allen never stepped up.

He never stepped up in the pocket. And he's made plays all year bailing back and then rolling and getting away from some of these pressures. But he didn't. And Kansas City knew that he was going to go back. And so they took further edge pressure. And they collected. it Allen. He's got to step up in the pocket and throw the short ball. He costs Buffalo the game on offense. They had a chance to continue to move the ball, to continue to make some of those

short throws, to get first downs, to get the ball in the hands of guys like Knox and Stefan Diggs and Beasley. They got underneath weapons who can run with the ball after the catch. The offensive line wasn't great, and there were some losses initially, but he never stepped up. up and that killed him. It killed him, Kev. Alan was terrible in this game, I thought. Yeah. I also thought they should have got back to some of the RPO stuff that they had early in the game. They start off the game with run and an RPO and they could have had some more quarterback stuff. We can't just drop him back and hope he's going to make big throws. you're trying to shorten this game, not elongate it.

Yeah. I didn't love the plan. I definitely didn't like the execution with Alan. I thought he missed multiple opportunities to take short gains and in some cases turn them into big losses. He cost him the game. Buffalo could have kept up and they could have possessed the ball more. But there comes a point where you can't put that pressure on your defense.

I also didn't love the defensive plan. You know, they mentioned it early in the game. The first time they played Buffalo never blitzed one time. Right. And they ran the ball. But that plan where you're going to count on five drops like you mentioned and some penalties. And maybe you get one sack where you get home. And instead of scoring on six possessions, they score on or instead of getting six scores on the possessions, they only get four.

That's not what happens with Kansas City. Well, I mean, Cleveland did a pretty good job last week of basically saying, we're keeping everything in front of us and we're going to try to hold you to field goals. And, you know, they did. Like there were two or three, what was it? They missed an extra point. Three Butker field goals in that game, you know? And I think two of them were in the two or three of them were in the red zone, maybe.

I mean, I, and he missed one. Remember, Butker missed one. I thought he missed two, he missed two kicks in that game. He missed an extra point in a field goal. He hit both uprights. Exactly. I mean, how do you, like Bowles is super aggressive. And the one thing everybody always says about Todd Bowles,

he doesn't give a shit who he's coaching against. He's coming after you. Like everybody says, you're playing Tampa or you're playing the Jets. Bowles is coming after you. He is going to liver die aggressively. There was an easy touchdown pass for Rogers to Devante Adams on third and goal. I think it was where he came zero. Free play.

He just zero blitz. I'm like, oh, man, from the two-yard line, you're going to give him. Oh, on the slam. Yeah, like, come on. Like, he doesn't matter. He's going down swinging or winning swinging. Is that the right strategy? Or is Mahomes and Hill and Kelsey going to have a field day against that?

you got it no it's i think i think it's the right strategy rather than just sitting back and saying we'll what doing the cleveland thing we're gonna we think we can hold you on a condensed field in the red zone to more field goals and touchdowns yeah i would go well depends on who you have personnel wise like you you you were talking about buffalo being a fast defense i don't think buffalo's an especially fast defense Tampa is yeah they are true it's a really really fast defense and those two linebackers can move they can fly oh man they can run and i think of either of those two back backers they might not de-locked kelsey down but you can play you can match kelsey with with david you know what i mean like there's some opportunities where they're going to bring pressure

the thing that kills you when you start bringing pressure and you start playing man-to-man coverage against kansas city is they start getting all those gimmick plays dude they get all those screen plays the McCull Hardman and around play, they get all those plays that Andy creates and designs. And it's brutal because you got all this attention on Tareke Hill and then all this attention on Travis Kelsey. And then somehow we have to find a way to get pressure on Patrick Mahomes. And all of a sudden, now you get these screens to the backs and you get guys like McColl Hardman on and arounds. and it's just they challenge your eye discipline on defense more than anybody else. And they're built to do it.

They're built with pure speed and a quarterback who's exceptional. But Kevin, if you can't get him out of balance offensively, I just don't see how you stop them. The problem with them is that even on an individual play, if you took away one, two, and three, and you were lucky enough to do that, he's just going to beat you because he's going to extend and he's going to make some crazy play. I love how he and Rogers, you know, and Rafflesberger does it too. I love when they're on the move a little bit and they're looking in one direction,

but they're throwing in another. Like a defense is looking at a quarterback, look at you, but he's actually throwing it out to the other side of the field. They're able to throw without looking at a target. And not only that, you start playing man coverage and you come after him. If you miss, if you don't get home, he's going to beat you badly with his legs as you're turning around chasing Tyree kill down the field. He's going to have 25-yard runs. It's so hard.

I mean, at the same time, defensively, and I know that they really were able to turn it up a little bit last year, and they turned it up against Buffalo a lot. I don't know, man. I think Tampa will be able to move the ball against them because they've got weapons too. Tampa's definitely going to move the ball against them. And there was some stuff that Kansas City did. Spagnola is a good defensive coordinator.

That was a good hire. They hired Spags two years ago after they lost a Super Bowl. Right. After they lost the AFC Championship game. The AFC Championship to New England. And Spags is a guy that's going to give you a bunch of different looks. and I think Romo did a good job pointing some of them out where they're showing true single high

and they're rolling to way different versions of cover two. And you're not feeling Tom. You're just not. And Tampa's offensive line's better than Buffalo's offensive line. And Tom will step up in the pocket. So Tampa can absolutely move the ball against Kansas City. Tampa has more weapons, in my opinion, than Buffalo. Buffalo's biggest weapon was Allen.

Allen just played like garbage. And I'm the biggest Allen fan, but I think the moment was too big for him. I do. I think he'll be back. I think he'll figure it out. He'll go back and watch it and go, God, I cost us the game. I think McDermott also just gave further proof to,

you have to be more aggressive than you normally are with the football. You cannot kick field goals. You cannot have, You can't look at the end of the game and you have four punts and four field goals. That's eight drives and it only amounts to 12 points. It's just not going to be enough. You know, you can't do that.

You have to score touchdowns against Kansas City. And, you know, Harbaugh, remember, and Harbaugh hasn't beaten him. I'm right about that, right? I think Baltimore has been beaten by Kansas City every single time they've played him. but he goes down swinging trying to make touchdowns. And now look, I mean, maybe we're going to find a defense at some point here that's able to really punish Mahomes. But it's amazing. Even when he's pressured, he seems to get away from it and make a play.

He's really spectacular. Spectacular. The line is three, three and a half. I thought it would be four plus. But I think they're really giving and paying respect to not only Brady. I think they're paying respect to Tampa's defense. I totally agree with you. And I'm happy about that because I would love to see Todd Bowles.

And I know it would be part of a staff with Bruce Ariens and Brady. But I would love to see Bowles be the first one to really somehow, you know, expose some sort of chink in the armor of Mahomes in the chief's offense. I suppose a chink in the arm. You probably not. I just don't see. I don't think Kansas City has chinks. I don't either.

I just think that you've got to try to find a way to slow them down and make a couple plays. And Bowles is the kind of guy that can do that. Line, I'm looking at it. I really don't. Like, you could talk about, like, using your strengths or using the, what are their weaknesses? And, God, I just don't see Kansas City having a bunch of weaknesses. or any. How about how many people were at Arrowhead yesterday?

Like, what was the official, I think they're like 22%. I think it's 17,000? It seemed like more than that. Same thing at Lambo, too, whatever they were supposed to. I mean, I loved it watching it. It felt like, you know, we had some crowds for these games, which was awesome. I'm also glad, even though I love snow games, I'm glad we got to see Tampa in Green Bay without weather impacting the game at all.

That was a really compelling game throughout. And the bottom line on the takeaway for Rogers, I think I said this on Friday, win or lose, I'm not going to change my opinion on Rogers. And I'm not going to change my opinion on Brady. Brady's the greatest of all time. And Rogers is certainly in the conversation of the top 6, 7, 8 of all time. And by the way, Rogers still has four or five years left. Shit, Brady may have three or four years left at this point.

Brady, why has Tom Brady have such a cannon right now? I don't know, TB 12? I don't know. He can still throw it. He's slinging it. A couple of those pressures, though, on those interceptions. He had three interceptions and a half, Coley. I know.

After a brilliant first half. The Evans one, look, it wasn't a good ball, and he knew it wasn't a good ball, but Evan still dropped it. I thought that that was a tough catch. It was over time. was a tough catch for sure, but. Evans, he had multiple drops in the game. His numbers would have looked much better. He's had a hell of a lot of balls

dropped in this postseason. I mean, it started, he... Godwin's drop. I watched Godwin on a couple. I know what Godwin's body catching at this point. Yes. Cool. He had to start using his hands. He had a huge third down catch that he almost dropped because he let it get to his chest.

He's body catching everything. Yeah. And what's, what's wild about that is I'm sure he's working his butt off in practice to catch however many balls a day. Yeah. And I'll guarantee he doesn't body catch any of those balls in practice. Anything else on Kansas City, Buffalo or Green Bay, Tampa? I said this last week.

I'm going to say it again this week, and I didn't know how these games would play out. I thought Green Bay would be better than they were. And I thought Buffalo would give Kansas City a better game. But I think the two best teams won again. I think the two best teams are in the Super Bowl. You hit on your lock of the week. That's all that matters. You had the over in the Kansas City Buffalo game.

And I hit on three out of four, which gives me a chance, coolly, with the right side and the right total in the Super Bowl, if I go that route to get back to 500 for the year. I don't know if you go for it on fourth down in the smell test. Yes, you do. You absolutely do. And I can tell you right now, I really believe, and we've got. two weeks, basically. I think Tampa is going to be the anti-public play. They're only a three-point underdog. I got to think that Kansas City is going to be the public play. I mean, early on, it's sort of mixed, and I see some public action. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

The total, I think people are going to think over. So I have a feeling Tampa and the under may be the play in the Super Bowl. But three is a super short number, but that's a super short number. But They went off as only a three-point favorite against Buffalo, too. So anyway, all right, when we come back, our last segment of the day will focus on Matt Stafford is available. What will it take to get them? Will Washington legitimately be in the hunt? Will Washington go after him?

That's next after this word from one of our sponsors. So far for Swift, three carries 32 yards after that 16-yard gain. Stafford, go to the air. Little punk thing. As a man, deep flagged down, he's open. Marvin Hall touchdown. That was Matt Stafford to Marvin Hall, 55-yard touchdown pass that gave Detroit a 7-0 lead over Washington this year.

Remember, that was the game in which the Lions got off to a 24-3 lead in the third quarter. Then Alex Smith brought Washington back, tied it up late, and then there was the 15-yard penalty on Chase Young. and they lost 3027 on a long praetor field goal, 59-yard field goal at the gun. That was actually not a very good performance by the defense in that game.

Stafford threw three touchdown passes, no picks, got sacked one time, and was 24-33 for 276 yards. So we've certainly speculated and talked about Matt Stafford over the last few days. Detroit made it official. There was an announcement, lots of reporting over the weekend, that the two sides have agreed to part from one another. Detroit's going to move him. He's on the

trade block. They're going to start over in that organization after 12 years with Matt Stafford. This is good news for somebody like me who believes that Washington should be very aggressive going after Matt Stafford. Now, to your point, Cooley, who the hell knows who's available? Maybe Darnold's available. Maybe Rogers is available. Maybe Prescott's available. I mean, there could be a lot of people available here in the offseason. But Stafford is available. There's going to be, I think, a shitload of competition. Indy and New England were the first two teams I thought about. And then, you know, somebody like Denver teams with higher draft choices in the first round. Other teams also that have plenty of cap space to accommodate it. Personally, I see them in

Indy or New England, you know, a trade to an AFC team with better draft capital. I could see that happening. Martin Mayhew is here. He drafted Stafford. A lot of people think, oh, that's going to be the difference. I don't know why you would think that. Understand this. Detroit's not going to give two shits about Martin Mayhew being the GM here and him drafting Matt Stafford. They're going to trade Stafford to the team that gives them the deal that makes most sense for them. If Washington does that great. Stafford doesn't really, Stafford doesn't have a no trade clause. So his influence to whom he is traded is, you know, is not significant unless Detroit just says, hey, we're not going to trade you to a terrible team. We're going to try to do right by you, but we're,

we're getting a really good deal. I personally think it'll be an AFC team, and I think it'll be a first and something else. I put a poll out this morning, Cooley. with what I thought was a pricey deal and asked people if they would do it. And it was a first and a second. This year's first, 19th overall. This year's second, 51st overall for Stafford. 3,500 votes in. 51.8% said yes.

48.2% say no. It's going to be a first plus something. What would you give up for Stafford? It's going to likely be two first. Really? Yeah. why because there's going to be i think it's going to be well first of all keep in mind you've done this stafford thing on the radio show three years ago you've done it multiple times

there's not a lot of love for stafford among Washington fans it was it was like stafford and cousins are the same guy and you had to you had to say i'd take stafford before cousins and i and i would i here's the couple reasons the broncos the 49ers the colts the Patriots, Washington, potentially the Jets, potentially the Rams. There are a lot of teams that could win now with Stafford. A lot. Yeah.

And he's the easiest to acquire as far as if it were to be Rogers or Watson of the available quarterbacks. And that's not going to be available. It's going to be a first for sure. But if you were, let's say, late first, you're going to be two first. If you're where Washington is, I can't imagine them not having to give next year's first as well. Would you do it?

Yeah. You didn't, you know, on Friday's show, you said, well, I'm the kind of guy that thinks I can pick out the next Josh Allen in the draft. I know. I thought about it since then. And? Here's why I would do it. Because Washington's good enough that they have a chance to win with Stafford. There's other guys that they're going to have to go out there and get, but I think that they're talented enough that they can go get those dudes. And look, look, I've said to you multiple times with Stafford, you're going to end up having a Alex Smith-type contract where you're paying him a bunch of money and you've got to pay sheriff and you've got to start paying this defensive line and you've got concerns with paying a quarterback big-time money.

but Stafford's not as big time as what Watson is or what some of the new deals would be for younger players. It'll be a big deal. That said, that said, you are going to start having to pay these guys as it goes and making decisions with your roster. And I think right now you have a roster going into next year that lacks mostly a starting quarterback, first and foremost a starting quarterback. Let me start there.

Would you do two first? Would you do this year's first and next year? year's first? I got to think about that, but before I give you an answer in that, I would do a first and a second without even hesitating. I would do a first and a third, first and a fourth, first in, you know, a second and, you know, a second. Two first.

It's awfully pricey. I think your suggestion that it could become that kind of a competitive market for him is not, it's not crazy. Okay, you know, we've seen people compared it to the Carson Palmer. The Palmer to Oakland deal was a first and a second in 2011, and they're basically at basically the same age, you know, comparable careers at that point. Right.

So I think that that's going to be the price. Can I, I'll just mention this. I think Stafford's better than Palmer was at that age. I think Stafford's career is a better career. I haven't matched up the numbers. I'm just thinking about what I thought about Carson Palmer versus what I've thought about Stafford. For all of you that have said Stafford's a loser, he hasn't elevated his team.

It's true. You know, you could say a couple of those playoff years, it was a lot about him. And when he had called well as a coach in particular, I thought that they were good. I just, look, I mean, I've watched him. You've watched him. We can differ on in the opinion. I think he's a really good quarterback. I think he's a top 10 to worst case, 13, 14 guy in the league.

I think he's been right around 10 or 9 at various times. The one concern I've had, and I shared this with you, Cooley, last week, I think, is that he's played hurt a lot. He's gotten hurt a lot, but he's fought through it and he's played. That's easier to do at 26 than it is at 36 or 24, than 34. So you have to worry about that to a certain degree. But I think Washington has a chance to make a big jump, maybe not next year, but the year after. And I think, you know, in 2022, if Matt Stafford's in his second year here, I think Washington could come back is a legitimate deep into the playoff Super Bowl contender.

I think with him next year on this team, they're the favorite to win the NFC East, even with their first place schedule. I think they would be the favorite to win the NFC East. Now, I'm going to ask you this. A lot of people are pushing back saying, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't give up your future for this guy. You have the guy on your team. You have them, whether it's Taylor Heineke or Kyle Allen.

What do you say to that? you don't know that you have the guy on your team right there's there's so much unknown in heinicky let's start with heinrichie for sure there's there's there's a we've went all through all of this i maybe he's not a great practice player maybe there's certain but it's hard for everybody to miss over and over and over on a guy he's been a couple different places and been released he could be kurt warner he could be kurt warner there you are he could be he could be And that's a big good. Same as Alan.

But I've seen Alan play poorly. I know. Look, I've seen Stafford do amazing things. That's the thing. When I watch Stafford, I've seen him just do some incredible things. It's hard to give up that much for him, but these guys are just so hard to find. And it just seems like because you won an extra couple games this year, you did make the playoffs, which I appreciate. You're not going to get any of the real known commodity.

these. Is now the right time to be aggressive on a quarterback? I think anytime you don't have a quarterback is the right time to be aggressive on a quarterback. Unless you really, really believe in one of your guys or one of the guys that you're going to get in the draft or you think there's a real chance that you're going to get one of these dudes in the draft. What else, where are you going to get a guy like Stafford? Go get a quarterback, period. This is the key in the NFL to having long-term sustained success. Even if it's Green Bay success where you've only won one Super Bowl, tell me you wouldn't take Green Bay's success over the last decade-plus with Aaron Rogers.

You've got to go get your quarterback. This infatuation that many of you have with Taylor Heineke, I'm not going to tell you that you're definitely wrong because I don't know. I don't think you know either. I think even if you believe you've seen something in him that says that's your guy, understand this too. You know what he's been a lot of over the moments he's played hurt, including in the final game that he played in against Tampa Bay in the postseason?

So, you know, you could be right. but here's what I think you have to at least admit. You could be wrong. And the thing on Stafford is you know he can do this at a high level. You know that. Whether you think he's, you know, 12 or 14 or 8 or 9, you know he is a top half of the league's starting quarterback. He's been that even on the worst teams that he's played for.

You know, the worst years he's had. He's still in the mid, you know, low 60s in percentage, and he's 25 or 29 over 19. He's a playmaker. He's a guy that leads comebacks. He's got 31 fourth quarter comebacks. He's got 38 game winning drives in his career. Yeah, he's a lot of offenses, so he's not going to have a hard time grasping an offense.

You know, somebody mentioned to me the other day. what's the difference between him and McNabb? Well, and I responded to this, I said, you know, it's a fair point, you know, to bring up, you know, another acquisition via trade. But there's a big difference. McNabb had had one team, one coach, one system. And what became very apparent about Donovan McNabb is he didn't want to learn a new system. He didn't want to be anywhere else.

He didn't want to start over. You know what Stafford's done like five times already? Start over. You know what he's clearly willing to do and wants to do? Start over. So there are other differences, but to me that's the biggest difference. You know, you know you were there for McNabb. He didn't really want to start over, which is why he wouldn't wear the wristband,

the whole thing. So you had a guy that was disinterested, and in Stafford, you'll have a guy that's interested. The comparison to Carson Palmer, Palmer ended up with a bad team in Oakland, terrible defensive team. And then when he got with a better team, he played pretty well in Arizona, you know, at the end of his career. I mean, they went to the playoffs once or twice, right? Something like that. Anyway, it's a fair comp. And Carson Palmer was a good quarterback.

He was a good quarterback. I think Stafford's a much better playmaker, though. I totally agree with that. I would take Stafford over Palmer. Yeah, I would too. I would take Stafford over a lot of starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I mean, you know, when we get into these conversations about wins and losses, you just have to understand the dependent nature of the position and the organizations that some of these players have been in.

The stability of the organization. How many coaches has he been through? Five, four? You know, I mean, Schwartz. Caldwell, Patricia. Who am I missing? Detroit head coaches. Stafford was drafted 2009, right? So he played for Schwartz, Caldwell, Patricia.

And then when- Coordinators. And then when Patricia got fired this year, Bevel. Well, it's at least four, three or four. So number one is... The thing you're wondering is what you're giving. up and what you've got to pay him. Do we got to work out a deal tomorrow? Because that will change things a little bit. I'd give up a first and I'd extend his deal. First of all, let's be clear on one thing. If they trade for Matt Stafford, Alex Smith, there's zero chance he can be on the

roster next year. They can't, they have to take the 12, 13, 14, whatever it is, cap savings. You know, you basically subtract what his base salary would be next year with the dead money. And so there's going to be significant savings. But even if there weren't, you're not going to have Alex Smith on the roster with Matt Stafford. We all agree on that, right? Personally, again, I don't think Alex Smith should be back, even if you're going with Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineke and a draft choice.

I would give up a first and second, and then I would extend him to make sure that he's locked in beyond, I think it's the 2022 season, which he's under contract for the next two seasons. and you can lower his cap number next year during the year, this upcoming year where the cap's going to shrink because of the pandemic. I think, you know, you think about him in terms of a five-year quarterback. It's the way you thought about Alex. You extended Alex. He had two years left on his deal, you know, at essentially the same age. And by the way, let's be really clear on this.

Matt Stafford is a better quarterback than Alex Smith when they traded for Alex Smith. I mean, if you want to be clear on it, he was, he's a better quarterback. quarterback than Alex Smith ever. I think so, even though Alex Smith quarterbacked a lot of teams to the postseason. You know, he also had... No, he didn't quarterback a lot of teams to the postseason.

San Francisco in Kansas City. And they benched him in both plays. Well, they did bench it. Well, not the first year in San Francisco. He got to the NFC championship game against the Giants. And then they benched him the next year when they got to the Super Bowl and they went

with Colin Kaepernick. And then obviously, Andy Reid probably should have. I hate saying this about him because he's been such a great, you know, leader in the whole thing, but there's no doubt that the loss to Tennessee in the 2018 postseason, 2017-2018 season, with Mahomes, they might have won the Super Bowl. They certainly wouldn't have lost to Tennessee at home. Alex Smith has started seven playoff games, Cooley.

seven and would have likely started his eighth without whatever happened to him, you know, at the end of this year. Sure. So, and some people will say in 2018 that he would have quarterback to playoff game that year too before breaking his leg. Anyway, I don't think that they're going to, I don't think Detroit's going to trade him to Washington. I think that there's going to be a much more attractive.

option altogether and that it will be an AFC team, which will make even more sense for them. I actually think as it relates to the veteran quarterbacks of the attractive ones, you know, Stafford, let's just say Rogers, Watson, Prescott, you know, if the Jets end up, you know, taking somebody or trading for somebody darnold, I think Washington more likely than not, I hope they're aggressive on this, but I think that they're not going to be, the best situation for teams to trade two or for a quarterback that has some influence, they're not going to say Washington's where I want to go. I would bet you Stafford would much rather be with Frank Reich in Indianapolis and in their

situation, or in New England with all that cap space. Because the Patriots with all that cap space, if they get a quarterback, they're going to become a factor again next year, I bet. Would not surprise me at all. 100%. No, I would guess New England would give up more than anybody for him. Anyway, my personal opinion is I would do it. The two first seems awfully pricey, but I would still be really excited.

I think you can't. If you believe it's the right guy, you go get the guy. I felt the same way about the trade up for Griffin in 2012. I mean, I was wrong, but I was like, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, you don't know what these three ones and two- twos are going to, You don't have any idea what they'll end up becoming. If you think you have an elite franchise quarterback that you can draft, you've got to do it. It'll impact the franchise in so many ways that those other five players won't.

Look at the players the Rams ultimately got for Griffin. They weren't massive difference makers. Brockers and Pied and, you know, I can't even remember all the names. But it was not a great hall. there's no guarantee. I would think about certainly a first and a second. If you told me it's two ones, I just don't think it's... If I told you it's two ones, that's because I'm telling you that's what the value would end up being.

It's not like someone's going to throw out dramatically more than anybody else. I know. Two ones seems like an awful lot, but then again, Jamal Adams just brought back two ones. And, you know, Tunsell brought back two ones. And, you know, they're like... Ramsey brought back two ones and you had to do a new deal with the media. But I think sometimes too coolly, we really, I think you've had a good handle on it for the most part over the years, but I think fans in particular whiff on this more than anything else, trade value.

Trade value. I really do think that we're so off, so often, and that it can be very arbitrary anyway. Like, comps aren't always helpful in these situations, even though GMs try to use them. The bottom line is if there are five or six teams interested in Matt Stafford and want to be aggressive, the price is going to be really, really expensive. And to your point, everybody's sitting here talking about a first plus a mid-rounder, it might not be that. It might be a lot more than that. Who was the last big-time quarterback traded for? The Browns traded number two overall in a 2017 fourth rounder to the Eagles in exchange for 2016 number one, which was number one.

which was number eight, a third rounder, a fourth rounder, 2017 first round and a 2018 second rounder. Now we're talking about to move up to draft guys. We're not talking about a proven guy. All right, so that was a big trade. The Browns basically gave Wentz the number two pick to the Eagles for two number ones, a number two, a three, and a four. And then they got a fourth back.

The Titans traded the number one pick. to the Rams so that they could select Goff in 2016 for a first, two seconds, two first, two seconds, two-thirds in 2016. By the way, that was to move up 15 spots. The Eagles were to move up six spots. Obviously, Washington traded the three ones and a two to move up four spots. the Broncos traded Cutler to the Bears in exchange for Orton and a first and a third.

I'm two firsts and a third. So the Broncos got back for Cutler to the Bears, two firsts, a third, and Kyle Orton. There you go. Cutler was a little younger when they made that trade. But the idea that Stafford's old, I mean, for quarterbacks. How old was Cutler then? 30? Less than that.

At most. Yeah, he was probably in his late 20s. I can barely remember Cutler with Denver, right? Right. Cutler... That's what you gave up for Cutler. Color wasn't phenomenal in Denver. Cutler was really young.

Cutler was 24, 25 when he got traded. to Chicago. So that's not the comp. I think it's two first. The comp is Carson Palmer. If you're looking for a comp, the comp is Carson Palmer, a first and a second. Same age, same level of productivity, same belief that you know, you're getting a high quality starting quarterback. That would be the comp.

The comps to the moves up to take undrafted players is really not a con. Those aren't comps. And again, comps don't mean shit if you've got seven teams that are desperate for them. Right. And I bet they're going to be at least four teams that are pretty hungry for them. So, it's going to be a,

it's going to be a boatload. Your point is not lost on me. Like I'm, you know, I'm sitting here just like everybody else is reading all the stuff about what, you know, what it'll bring back. and everybody's saying it's a first plus.

Like it's a first plus a third or a first plus. We know it's a first. Yeah, but the issue you brought up, could it be two first? Could it be two first because it's quarterback and there are a bunch of teams interested because he is potentially a top 10 guy. You know, he is when he plays well. And if your team that thinks like Indy, you can win the Super Bowl next year or like New England that you can win the Super Bowl next year or like New England that you.

you can turn it around big or San Francisco or LA that you can win the Super Bowl with better quarterbacking or Washington where you think you can actually win 11 games for the first time or 10 games for the first time and forever with a much better quarterback situation. It could get very pricey. There's no doubt. I hear you. I think it's actually, to me, it makes more sense that it's going to be much more expensive than it makes sense that it be less expensive. expensive. So the issue then is if you're Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew and Marty Herney, do you give up, do you mortgage some of your future to get your, you know, maybe a middle linebacker or a corner that you, that you, that you really believe you need and you think

is available there in the draft to make your defense go from good to great? Do you really, do you do it? A lot of it, a lot of it just. The other question is, do you think that there's an not Matt Stafford? I asked you the other day about Darnold. If you're those dudes, is there another possible answer? Yeah, there are other possible answers. Sam Darnold would be less. I'm talking about the veteran route.

And I don't want Ryan Fitzpatrick as my veteran. And I mean, I love Ryan Fitzpatrick. But I want somebody that's going to be here for three, four years, minimum, five years maybe and that we can have a run with. That's not Fitzpatrick would be your answer if you were to draft somebody. Well, why would they think that instead of Kyle Allen or Taylor Heineke? I don't know. I don't know that we, here's the problem. No matter, and I'm telling everybody this right now because none of you and you're going to believe a bunch of media people that are going to be speculating just like we're doing right now. We don't know what Herney and Mayhew think. And

they came on in part to help Rivera make some of these big decisions. We know that Scott Turner likes Alan and Heineke, and we know that his father never hesitated going with a guy that wasn't a big name. You know, Gus Ferrat's the great example. You know, he was like, really? Heath Shuler, we drafted him three overall. I'm playing Gus Ferrat six games into the end of Schuller's rookie year because he's better. And, you know, and we know that Ron Rivera likes Scott Turner. There's a Nikki Javala from the Post put out something interesting over the weekend,

and I'm going to see if I can find it real quickly. It was a quote from Ron Rivera when he was in Carolina last year about the quarterback situation before the 2019 season. And it read as follows. Hold on for a second. Here it is. He was asked, this is when he was in Carolina. Do you want to draft a quarterback to develop?

And Rivera said, well, it's interesting because I know the last few years we've looked at taking a quarterback and a couple of times a guy that we liked got taken before we got a chance to. The only reason you do that, obviously, is to increase your depth. We like who we have at our depth positions right now, Taylor Heineke and Kyle Allen. We thought both of those guys came in and played well and showed us that they're more than capable backups. Then follow-up question. Would you anticipate tendering Taylor Heineke? This, again, is 2018 in Carolina.

Well, again, I don't want to get into players' contracts. That's really a question for Marty Herney. But I was pleased with what Taylor did for us. I really was, as with Kyle. So as I said, I feel really good about our depth, and I know Norv, who is the offensive coordinator, feels good about it as well. And to me, that's pretty important

when your offensive coordinator feels good about those guys. And then he was asked, looking at quarterbacks in free agency, what about that? He said, no, I think right now we're pleased. with where we are in terms of our quarterback position, very satisfied in what we got at the end of the year from both Taylor and Kyle. I think both guys showed that ability. If we did do anything, it's probably going to be in the draft.

We think developing a guy is important, but we really feel strongly about the two guys we have. More importantly, I know Norv is pretty satisfied with what we got from those guys. That was a great pull from Nikki from this. And she tweeted, she said, if there wasn't that one mention or a couple of mentions of Norv, would you be able to tell if Ron Rivera was talking about the 2018-19 Panthers or the 2020-2020-21 Washington football team? And it's true. Because Scott Turner, and we know this, he likes both of those guys just like his father did,

which is why they traded a fifth for Kyle Allen because he wanted Kyle Allen. So here we are, these may be completely irrelevant conversations with respect to what they'll do because their plan is to maybe draft somebody, but really they believe if they get their middle linebacker, if they get another corner and a safety and another wide receiver, that Kyle Allen and or Taylor Heineke are going to be fine. By the way, some of you feel the same way. Some of you are absolutely convinced. You remember old Bobby in L.A., right, Coolie?

one of our good friends Bobby. Bobby in capital letters. Taylor Heineke, Taylor Heineke, Taylor Heineke. That's the plan. Don't trade for anybody. Why would we even think about trading for a quarterback? We have him. And he's not the only one. And look, you guys might be right. I don't think you're going to be right, though. If I had to wager, I would wager that Taylor Heineke and or Kyle Allen are service-level. backup quarterbacks. I actually liked Kyle Allen this year. I actually thought that, you know, there was some potential for him.

But if you're telling me that I'm more confident in the development of either one of those two rather than trading for Matt Stafford and having him be my quarterback for three to five years, uh-uh. I wouldn't go in that direction. I'm just, I'll tell you one thing with certainty is if you like either of those guys or both of them,

it's a lot easier to. to build a team with those two. Of course. Of course it is. And it's also, but then what you're putting in play is having a really good team and going six and ten or seven and nine because the quarterback play just wasn't good enough. Versus having a good team with a much better quarterback and going 11 and 5 and having a chance in January for three or four or five straight years.

You're putting a lot in play. with those two. You're putting a lot of unknown. You're putting, don't know what they'll do in a big game situation into play. Although He came up pretty big in what was probably the biggest game of his life. Yeah, no doubt. But that's also a got nothing to lose situation.

Look, I was super impressed with Heineke. Super impressed. In that game. He was outstanding. Yeah. I'm going to tell you right now, though, that Matt Stafford would have had a hell of a game in that game, too. I really believe that. And by the way, I don't think they would have been seven and nine. Drew Breeze didn't have a big game in that game.

No, he didn't, but he also didn't fumble away some of those balls. He didn't play better than Breeze did against the Bucks. He didn't have to face Devin White, though. That's true. Still Drew Brees. I know it's Drew Brees. You know, this is such, I mean, I feel like. like we could go on forever and I want to end the podcast because I don't want it to be I don't want it to be

overly long today but this is such a big moment and here is this triumvirate of you know Ron Marty and Martin and they got to make a decision and by the way just do me one favor Ron just keep Dan way away from this to I mean he you can't allow him to you know fire up Redskins 1 and try to go impress somebody and try to go close somebody and then come back and tell you, I got the deal done. Don't worry about the terms. Don't worry about what we gave up. You can't allow that. I don't think it will happen this time. You know, there's no Bruce to help. There's no Vinny to help. But just tell him to stay on the boat and come back when it's all figured out. But man, in all seriousness, and I am being serious to a certain degree on the former,

But this is such a big moment because what if they just decide? Nah, we're not going in on Stafford or anybody else or Watson if he's really available. We like what we have. Well, okay, you're going to be judged by the moves you make and the moves you don't make. Or at least the moves you try decide not to try to make. You know, you get judged on all that. You're not that far away from John Beck and Rex Grossman. Uh, no.

I hope that Heineke Allen is better than that combo because Beck couldn't play. Um, Rex, you know, Rex gave you a couple of decent outings and, you know, maybe a Kyle Allen or... Mike, a very good coach did believe that they could play. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. He didn't believe that Beck could play. Okay. He said he could and then he got that first opportunity when Rex got pneumonia for the character. Carolina game, whatever it was. Yeah, just like Rick's got that an opportunity when Donovan wasn't

Well, that was the nice way of putting it, the nice way of putting it. Let me just mention that's something. Yeah. I want to make a recommendation for all of you that haven't read Richard Justice's column on Martin Mayhew in the post from over the weekend. Just Google Richard Justice, Martin Mayhew, Justice, the longtime columnist in Houston, but many years here with the Post covered a lot of the Gibbs teams. He's such an outstanding writer and such a great guy, and he came on the radio show today because I read this column that he wrote about Mayhew. Mayhew, out of all of the players and coaches that Richard has covered over his career, and just one Hall of Fame or after another, Martin Mayhew is the player slash coach that he admires more than anybody else. and he tells you all of the reasons why, and it's a really interesting story, and I'll just give this away. Martin Mayhew, who was the starting corner opposite Dion Sanders at Florida State, and then opposite Daryl Green in Washington, in the 1991 season, when Washington was putting together one of the great seasons in NFL history, he was sneaking off at night to take law classes at Georgetown

to get his law degree. And it just, it gets better from there. There's so many good stories, but it's a really, really excellent read if you have time for it. It's worth it. Anyway, you got anything else? No, man. I don't either. There were other things from over the weekend, but, you know, we hit on the playoffs and the Washington situation of quarterback.

Plenty more to come. Tommy will be with me tomorrow, and Tommy will certainly give you his thoughts on Hank Aaron, but we'll talk a lot of football on the show tomorrow as well. Have a great day. Thanks, Cooley. See, Kev.