The Kevin Sheehan Show - March Madness And Wentz Regret?

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

Tim Murray and Aaron Oster talk about everything going on in March Madness, plus the Terps coaching search. They then discuss Davante Adams being traded to the Raiders and ask if the Commanders might have regrets right now pulling the trigger on Wentz so early. Plus, Mount St Mary's coach Dan Engelstad joins to talk about college basketball and March Madness. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Welcome in, another installment of the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast. Still Tim Murray, sorry to disappoint. We did talk a little commander football, so hopefully that got the juices flowing a little bit

yesterday. I have relocated to Aaron Oster's office. We have a TV on the desk. watching some college hoops. We're sweating out bets. And I feel like people have missed the wonderful tones of producer Aaron Oster since he's relocated out to the desert. Aaron, welcome in. Yeah, welcome in. It's not quite as nice as the Chey and Dome out there in Bethesda. But you know what? We actually have a bar here. So maybe it is actually a little bit better. Yeah, it's a nice. It's a nice spot. We're here in Henderson, Nevada. So we're going to talk some college

Toops. I know this will be getting out, you know, midday on Friday, so we won't dive into the Friday games. I will recap a little bit the Thursday situation. We'll talk about it, you know, where we work, me and Aaron, down in downtown Las Vegas, the scene that it was. Obviously, Las Vegas is a big part of the news here in the NFL. I mean, the NFL, Aaron, for some reason, they just, they can't keep their mitts off of, they just have to always be top of the mark, right? Tom Brady announced, that he's coming back on Sunday. And then in the midst of arguably the best day of the sports calendar, Devante Adams gets traded to the Las Vegas Raiders.

They just can't keep their grubby myths away from anything else. It's so annoying. It was really nice yesterday, you know, putting our show together. I was like, oh, you know what? We got four games going on. We have the night show. I don't have to really plan much anything and about to drive into work. Or actually, I'm not about to drive into work.

I had just gotten to work. And all of a sudden, oh, DeVos, Devante Adams gets traded, not just gets traded, but it gets traded to the city we now call home. So lovely. Yeah, we will get to that. So we'll have some thoughts on that move, what it means for the Packers. You know, we'll take a look at, you know, what it meant to the betting world, as me and Aaron very much ingrained in that. I do want to mention that later on in the show, a good friend of mine in Dan Engelstadies, the head coach of Mount St. Mary's,

I've chatted with him. I love talking with him. We talked a little strategy towards the end of games because you've seen some real meltdowns here lately. And also, you know, talking about St. Peter's, a team that has a budget of Kentucky has a budget, I think I saw, Aaron, 12 and a half times that of St. Peter. St. Peters has an enrollment of 23,

hundred and they beat Big Bad Kentucky. By the way, I thought Kentucky would go to the national championship. I guess ultimately for me, and I have a bet on Kansas to win the national championship, it's better, I guess, to get all these teams out of here. But what a stunning revelation. You know, there were some teams that you and I, Aaron, were talking about that we felt like, you know, the second round matchup could be tricky. and we'll get into the way UNC played against Marquette,

and could they be a stumbling block potentially for Baylor? Is that a fishy line? We'll get into Memphis and Gonzaga, Memphis with the talent that they have. But for Kentucky to bow out in the first round with all that talent with the national player of the year, I mean, it was absolutely stunning to see. And, you know, John Calapari didn't mince words. You said, you know, when you're up eight in the final three minutes, those are games you have to win.

and credit to St. Peter's. I did see there's a site out there. I bet you this type of site would drive Sheen crazy, but shot quality is a website. It takes into effect, you know, all your numbers and everything like that. It said St. Peter's based off what we saw yesterday, so the game that they played yesterday based off of the shots that were made, they win that game, Aaron, 2% of the time. That's why March Madness is the best. It really is. I mean, it's amazing. And to see that happen. St. Peter's is on to the second round. And, I mean, you know, it's funny. We talked about with Jim Root when we were on this show about elite guards and a guy that

that I'm really excited to see. And now I'm nervous about it because we've seen multiple guards kind of step up. So maybe he won't be the one. And he's playing late night on Friday. So maybe folks will see a Jelly Walker from UAB. But my God, the shot making. And that's the beauty of the NCAA tournament. is, you know, a guy like Teddy Allen from New Mexico State.

If anyone saw this or had Yukon, sorry about that. But he was just an absolute baller. And, you know, you look at San Diego State and the meltdown that they did, Aaron. And then you look at New Mexico State. And they just rose to the occasion. Teddy Allen, Mike Schmitz, who's the NBA draft analyst, put out a tweet. He said, quick Teddy Allen story. I was at New Mexico State Davidson earlier in the year,

during a dead ball, Alan walked up to me and said, watch me all year. I'm one of them ones. I promise. Well, he wasn't far off. 37 points, 13 of 13 from the line, four three-pointers. He was that type of guy that that emerges, Aaron, that was just loving every second of it, standing in front of the crowd, posing, waving goodbye to Yukon. Those are the types of guys that you see emerge. That's why this event, and I know we spent so much time on this podcast with me filling in talking about it,

but I just can't get it up. It's like a drug. It is so addicting. And to see those types of guys, it's phenomenal. And then the San Francisco guard, Bouye, they lose. But, I mean, you know, I'm on air. I've got Murray State. My co-host, you know, who we work with Sean King, former Buccaneers quarterback,

he, for some odd reason, went against me and he's got San Francisco. And we're going back and forth. doesn't have a head coach right now, by the way. Yeah, we'll get to that because I know Aaron is a a big Todd Golden fan. And he's just making shots. I mean, he looked like Steph Curry back there. I mean, at the end of that game, if people were up late, I hope you were. He takes a step back three as soon as it left his fingertips. I'm like, that's good. 100%. So, I mean, that's what this tournament is all about. It's really great. And going back to Kentucky and kind of, you know, what exactly happened there. First of all, actually, you were talking about the enrollment

of St. Peters. What we know about this, that enrollment, at least the application numbers, they're going way, way off. It's like Florida Gulf Coast a couple years ago. Right. But Kentucky, it illustrates something that I think a lot of people have overlooked. And in every other sport, it's become offense, offense, offense, it doesn't matter what defense. College basketball is one of the few cases where I feel like defense has really become underrated. And if you look at, you know, the two big upsets yesterday, Kentucky and Iowa, what's the common? common denominator. They don't have a great, neither team had a great defense.

If you're looking at Kempom numbers, Kentucky was 35th, obviously Iowa was 74, and something that could apply later on. And maybe you've already heard about this. You know, Purdue right now is winning as we speak, but they might not go far either because when you're looking at some of these top teams, the teams that are potentially national title contenders, Zaga, Baylor, Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky, Texas Tech, Villanova, UCLA, you know, the normal teams. all of these teams have good defenses.

Kentucky was not part of that list, and they got bounced early. Well, and we'll talk about a little bit. I do enjoy that people have, you know, embrace this. And, you know, we try out to make it all gambling. I know Aaron and I obviously work at a gambling network, but we'll get into a couple of the Saturday games. So hopefully people can, you know, have this up and listen to. We won't really get into the Friday games because who knows, you know,

when this will post back east. But I agree. I am not in on Purdue. I know she and loves Matt Painter. I like Matt Painter. I think he's a fine coach. I like the talent that they have. And I thought this was,

I actually laid the 16 with Purdue. So when you're listening to this, you might be laughing, but like, what an idiot. But I just thought it was a bad matchup. It was a situation where I felt like the selection committee on Sunday,

just assumed it would be Princeton. And then it was Yale, and they're like, ah, shit. Just put Yale on the 14th. So, yeah, It is something to certainly point out. I do want to jump back to what you said about San Francisco. And yesterday I talked a lot on the show about Mike Bray.

And by the time people are listening to this, Notre Dame is either won or lost against Alabama. You know, Kevin Willard's either won or lost against TCU. San Francisco last night lost in a hell of a game. Their coach, Todd Golden, is scooped up. to Florida. Man, didn't waste any time there. I know that was a guy, and you're much more ingrained in it than I am, Aaron, but that was a guy you talked about every day with me. Was he ever really thought of highly from all the reporting by Maryland? It doesn't seem that way. It seemed to be someone

who was, here's what it seems like what's going on in the Maryland search. It seems like they narrowed down very quickly on one candidate. That one candidate was Kevin Willard. Mike Bray, may or may not be in it. Right now it does seem like Kevin Willard and just kind of putting all the pieces together. It seems like they narrowed in on Kevin Willard really quickly. I'm sure they've done their due diligence on a lot of these guys. Matt McMahon, Murray State, the guy who beat Todd Golden yesterday seems to be a guy they've at least thought about. And I do wonder, you know, now that his path is completely wide open, if he makes a serious run, I'm talking about a lead aid or farther, if that's something that could muck up this a little bit, my hunch is no.

but I think Todd Golden and Nico Medved to a lesser extent were guys that kind of, you know, the message board guys like it. Obviously, were well thought of in the industry the way that Todd Colden got snapped up by a coach who as of, what, five days ago, officially had a head coach. Right. So it didn't come completely out of nowhere. But my hunch is those type of guys weren't totally considered strongly once they've really narrowed their sights on someone like Kevin Willard,

who you can sell very easily as a high major coach, as a coup to steal from another high major program, Big East, and is an overall very good coach. Well, I'll tell you right now, I'm going to have, if it is Kevin Willard, and that would be my hunch. I'd think I said that to you right away. I'm like, Kevin Willard just makes sense. He's done well at the Big East.

I think, I said this on yesterday's podcast, I think his coaching style, the players that he gets in, translates to the Big Ten. They're tough. They're really well coached. I think Kevin Willard would be a solid hire. I know it's not a home run. You know, hopefully they beat TCU to maybe get, you know, folks excited.

But I tell you one name that will be the Seton Hall coach in two seconds if Kevin Willard is the new Maryland coach. That would be the head coach of St. Peter's. Shaheen Holloway. He went to Seton Hall. He was on Seton Hall staff for about a decade. He will be the Seton Hall head coach in a. a matter of minutes.

And them beating St. Kentucky obviously raises his stock. So not that this is a Seton Hall podcast or if there even is a thing that exists. But yeah, I think Kevin Weller said it yesterday. You know, the Mike Bray thing is fascinating. I know I think you and I disagree a little bit. But I think ultimately right now it just doesn't make sense. He's 63 years old.

Right. He's got a lot of energy, as you saw from his, you know, post-game interview with John Rothstein. I like his offense. But I said it yesterday on the show. I was like, look, I hope that for the sake of us as basketball consumers, I'm like, I wanted to coach for two more years. And can we get in a booth somewhere? Because I think Mike Bray would be phenomenal as an analyst.

But yeah, it feels like Kevin Willard makes a ton of sense. He's had success, sustained success, mid-Atlantic region. And now Seton Hall knows who their next coach is. That's a pretty easy one and a pretty easy sell to their fan base. Hey, we lost our coach if, in fact, he goes to Maryland. We're going to get the guy who just beat Kentucky. So we're cool there. Yeah.

When it comes to Mike Bray, I could probably talk myself into it if it ends up happening. But it's one of those things where if he didn't desperately want the job, and we know back when Gary retired, he desperately wanted the job and he desperately still wants the job. But if he wasn't out there, you know, basically campaigning for it, I don't think he would be on the list. And when it comes to, you know, I think about this similarly to Juan Dixon. Is it nice to have someone who is connected to Maryland who desperately wants to be part of the family?

yes. But if you wouldn't be part of the conversation, if you weren't part of the family, go outside the family, basically. Yeah, and that's what, you know, Georgetown is kind of needs to do. All right, before we take a break and talk some football and Devante Adams to the Raiders, let's just quickly give some thoughts on Saturday. Hopefully people are watching this, or listening to this watching this. Take a look at Saturday's slate. I like St. Mary's a lot. I don't know if it's going to be. trendy. You mentioned defense. I think it's a great point. I mean, Randy Bennett's team, you know, it's funny because everyone just kind of talks shit about the West Coast Conference constantly.

They've got a five seed. They've got a 10 seed or sorry, yeah, 10 seed in San Francisco. And, you know, BYU was down this year, but they've certainly had some teams a couple years ago. I think they had a legit chance to have a run to the final four when we were doing the, uh, the daily line in D.C., the 2020 season, that team had a legit chance of making a run. They beat Gonzaga. So I think St. Mary's kind of gets a little overlooked because they're not, they play out West, they're not Gonzaga. I mean, there are five Cs for a reason, and UCLA looked as shaky as could be. I mean, they were fortunate to beat Akron, who wasn't even the best team in the Mac this year. But hey, they got it done. They got veterans there. You know, I think this line is

pretty suspiciously short for for most people who are looking, right? I think it is correct, but people who don't follow college basketball, maybe as much as everybody, if you went into and said, wait, UCLA Final Four team last year, preseason top five, and they're only a three-point favorite, I think St. Mary's wins this game. So I really like St. Mary's, looking at the board on Saturday. That would probably be my favorite play as of right now, St. Mary's plus the three. We'll go over a couple of the others, but what's jumping out to you? Well, you had the right game, but you were missing the big picture here. The total is 126.

There is no way this game gets up to that sort of level. This is absolutely has a 60, 55 written all over it. Both teams might not even get to 60 in this game. You talked about St. Mary's defense, and St. Mary's defense is great. UCLA has almost just as good a defense. You're looking at the metrics. You're talking about St. Mary's as the ninth ranked adjusted defense. on Kempom, UCLA is 12.

So you're talking about two of the best teams in the country on defense and two of the slowest teams in the country. That game is going under. I was actually, I really expected this to be a 120, rather than 126. So, yeah, that was my first play. Look at Aaron. Firing on unders. I mean, that's nothing more fun than fired on under.

Yeah, that's going to depress me a little bit, but at least it's, you know, 410 and I can pay attention to the St. Peter's Murray State game instead. All right. So, let's just bounce around real quickly. we've got Michigan. So in order of games, you got UNC Baylor. That's going to kick Saturday off. You know, I have a really hard time reading this UNC team. You know, I thought Marquette might have been the right side yesterday. Very short, public was all over UNC and UNC absolutely obliterated Marquette. Baylor did the same to Norfolk State. So, you know, Baylor, it's kind of been said for a while, but when,

is it going to happen? You know, they lost their big boy and Jonathan Chumuchua. They lost LJ. Cryer, who I believe was their leading score, but they just find ways. They're really, they're still really good. They're defending champs. They lost a lot from that team. If UNC plays at its best, I think they can not only cover. I think they could win. They have size. They've got shooters. You know, their best is what we saw against Duke. Their best is what we saw against Marquette. Can they do that again? That's my worry, Aaron, about this game is because UNC, what happened after they beat Duke? They go to the ACC tournament and they lose in the, what,

semifinals to Virginia Tech. So if I had to play it, I'd probably go UNC. I could probably be talked into it, but as of right now, I'm going to stay off on this one. Yeah, I agree. This is a stayaway game. I was down on Baylor. You know, we got to do the brackets.

You would have found out that I have them out in the suite 16 to. I have it as UCLA, but if it's St. areas either team, I think, could absolutely and probably will beat Baylor if they get that far. This team is just too banged up. They've been too inconsistent lately. And I don't see them making the run here. I don't know if UNC is the team to do it. At their best, 100%.

They are so inconsistent. They're at times so not physical, which is so weird for a UNC team, that this Baylor team absolutely could just wreck them on the boards. And, you know, even with their injuries, can still be a physical presence. it'll obviously come down to how tough this is refed, how tickey tack they're going to call these fouls. If they let them play, I think Baylor will absolutely run away with this one potentially. But yeah, UNC at their best absolutely has the talent to beat Baylor. Kansas and Creighton play after that. That's a big spread. Craton coming back from, you know, nine down in the final minutes. They force overtime, you know, Dougie McBuckett's dad is

continuing to coach really well. I'm the, going to pass on on this one as well. Let's get to Michigan and Tennessee. Hunter Dickinson, much to the chagrin, I'm sure, to Maryland faithful there, Aaron, was a baller. He was, couldn't be stopped, 21, 6, 4 blocks. And then he got Tennessee. No one's arguably playing better than Tennessee right now. This is a big spread. Laying 6 is where you have to roll with Tennessee. You know, Michigan, what we don't know is, you know, is there point guard going to be back? He was, You know, in concussion protocol, didn't travel with the team, didn't play against Colorado State, and that ultimately didn't matter.

And Michigan, who was a favorite as an 11 seed, which, as Kevin would point out, that seems a little fishy. And ultimately, they win that game by double figures. And there's another game, honestly, where I just, I don't really see a side that I want to be on here. So, yeah, Michigan, Tennessee, six, I'm going to, anything you like in this one? not really as you said this is a game just two very solid teams test he's better six is a little bit high like gun to my head i probably take the points i think but if you tell me that you know particularly

if the point guards out though i know there was talk that he would be ready for this game or at least there was a lot of hope that he would be ready uh for this game if they advanced um like if it's if one side is going to run away with it it's going to be tenet Yeah. It probably will end up being close. The six feels really right. I would advise stay away. I have a Tennessee final four tickets, so I'm rooting heavily for Tennessee here.

But, yeah, I'm staying off the game individually. All right, let's go Richmond and Providence. Providence, the rabbit's foot continues for the Friars. A questionable call at the end of that game, 5350. They get a fortunate whistle, in my opinion. Then they end up making their free throws. they win by nine. So Richmond, Providence wins.

And then Richmond, I mean, how about that? I mean, Iowa was thought to be the team that was going to come out. And Richmond runs through the A10, you know, comes from, what, double digits down in the first round against Rhode Island, overcomes that win comes from, what, eight, five down against Davidson. And now here they are in the second round of the tournament with a real chance to make it to the Sweet 16. I just don't know what to do with Providence anymore. Anytime I'm on them, they lose. Anytime I'm with them, they win.

They are just maddening to figure out because still the odds makers do not respect Providence. And, you know, it's based off of, as we've talked about, you know, luck, they're the luckiest team in the country. I mean, per Ken Palm right now, they're 48th in the country. You know, for arguments sake, these are teams that are ahead of them. UAB 12C, Texas A&M. Didn't make the field, even though they should have.

BYU, didn't make the field. Indiana, 12 seed, Iowa State, 11 seed. So there's a real discrepancy between their seed and, you know, where they are. The problem is Richmond's not really that good. I mean, they're 80th in Ken Palm. They're not one of those 12 seeds that, you know, everybody knows. They're playing better. They're a veteran team.

Well-coached. I like Chris Mooney. You know, you look at Grant Golden's been there forever. Jacob Gilliard's been there forever. You know, Tyler Burton's been there forever. You know, we always see a double-digit seed make the Sweet 16. The luck has to run out one of these days. I'll just say Richmond, for argument's sake,

just because I'm stubborn and want this run to end for the friars. Absolutely. If it was any other 12th seed, I think I would be gladly taking them. But Richmond, you could make the case shouldn't be a 12th seed. Like, they probably should have been seeded a little bit lower. And again, was just one of those things where the committee this year didn't want to make any changes late in the game. And so they just slid them into the 12 seed because that was the easiest thing to do

rather than actually, you know, figure out exactly where they belonged. Since they weren't really talked about as an at-large at all, they probably hadn't talked about them at all until they actually won the conference championship. Anybody else I would gladly take them over Providence, Richmond's the one I hesitate on. I'm staying off. If you're in a pick-em pool, if you're in something else, take the points. Same reasons you said.

Like, Providence is getting lucky. Granted. We've seen this in the past that Providence does fit the profile for these lucky teams, you know, senior leading guards, make your free throws. It was sort of similar to those mellow trimble teams at Maryland where over and over again Ken Palm had them lowly rated and highly rated in luck because they would make free throws down the stretch. They were clutch teams for lack of a better term. And it wasn't just strictly luck. It was because they were really good free throw shooters and they could win in those close games. And Providence does fit that.

there just seems to be something, and again, probably doesn't have that key player that you really want in that second weekend of the tournament. So yeah, give me the points in this one. All right. We'll kind of power through these, you know, favorite plays. So I mentioned St. Mary's. I like the Gales, plus the three in that one. Hopefully it stays that way, grab the three. As Aaron mentioned, it's a low-scoring game.

Points will be a little more valuable. I do think St. Mary's has a chance to win this game outright. I mean, they pulverize Indiana. Obviously, terrible spot for Indiana. you know, poor travel. They got in early in the morning. You know, Murray State is a big favorite against St. Peter's. We mentioned, you know, St. Peters, you know, on the shot quality, you know, 2% chance to win that game, Aaron.

Murray State's laying a big number. They just played a double overtime war. So I probably wouldn't want to play that. Murray State better. They'll win this game, I really believe. You know, the only game, the biggest game I want to get to, and it's, you know, the evening one, Saturday night. So hopefully people back east stay up for this one. I was surprised when the number opened. And you know how

I think, similarly to Kevin, right? Like if it's there, you know, at that peak for a reason, but then we saw buyback in the market and support for Memphis. So this number is down to 10 and a half. It opened 12 and a half. And I took a little bit of Memphis. You know,

we talked about it on our show when we were breaking down our brackets. And I think you and I were of the same mindset. I think Gonzaga is the better team. They're better coached. However, this Memphis team poses issues that, you know, that Gonzaga has problems with. And here's something to point out. Memphis, their biggest Achilles heel is turning the ball over.

They are one of the worst teams in the country in turnover rate. They turn the ball over almost like a quarter of the time. It's horrendous. but the team that they're playing in Gonzaga, guess what they don't do? They don't turn you over. They are 281 in opponent turnover rate. So I feel like the issues that Memphis has may not get exemplified by this Gonzaga team. I still believe Gonzaga will win.

I really wish they blew out Georgia State. Now I feel like this is going to be a bit of a trendy play to take the point here. But, you know, I think Memphis has a chance to keep this thing close. I wouldn't be stunned if they won this game because I go back to the next. national championship. And what was the biggest issue for Drew Timmy? He was, you know, just exposed by really athletic bigs. Well, Jalen Duren is a really athletic big.

He's a pro. He's a five-star recruit. And he's coming into his own. He is enormous. So they don't have the guard play that they had last year with, you know, Corey Kisbert and Joel IAI and, uh, and, um, the, uh, Jalen Suggs, who I love. But they still have Nemhart, who's really good. and they still have Chet Holmgren, who's a unicorn.

I just think there's a lot of points, and I think the public, unfortunately, will probably be on Memphis. I was hoping they wouldn't. But I think Memphis, I'll play them because I think at their peak, Aaron, they can play with Gonzaga, and I just hope that they can play at their peak.

I have Gonzaga winning it all in my bracket. The one thing that made me pause to it was this matchup, this potential matchup at the time. Memphis, since Amani Bates has left the team, team has been one of the best teams in the country. If you use various metrics as much as top five team in the country since Amani Bates left the team, it's a really good team, a really physical team that has shown everything they can do over the past couple of months. And, you know, I was honestly when, before the bracket came out, I was hoping they would end up on a seven or ten

line. And I could be like, all right, this is a team that could upset a two, really make a run, really, you know, get some bonuses here in the bracket, and then they got matched up against Gonzaga. I think Gonzaga is the better team. I think Gonzaga wins. And I think that this could be the kind of situation where if Gonzaga does jump out early, Memphis folds a little bit because mainly a big coaching discrepancy in this one. Though Penny has done a very good job, and Larry Brown on the bench has done a very good job

at Memphis, I think it's something where if Memphis does fall behind early, they could fold, and that's how you get that big cover. But as being said, I think Memphis is a very good team and depressed I would take the points. But I do think Gonzaga comes away with this one. Yeah, I was texting with a buddy who has watched a lot of Gonzaga games and Memphis games. And he basically said,

Jalen Duren could get into foul trouble, which would really negate my emphasis on taking Memphis. And they just had the tendency to turn the ball over. So we'll see if Gonzaga takes advantage of that. But, yeah, my favorite play on Saturday, I'm rolling with St. Mary's plus the three. Aaron's on the under in that game. Those are our two favorite plays.

More college basketball talk. My good friend, Dan Engelstad, will join the show to close out. But we'll take a quick break and then talk some football. What a blockbuster deal, Aaron. Here to Las Vegas as DeAndre or as Devante Adams is now a raider. More to come after these messages. All right, back on the podcast, sitting in Aaron Oster's, studio here in lovely Henderson, Nevada.

We're watching Delaware and Villanova play right now, so we'll see. I won't really, maybe this is a big upset. We saw 15 over two yesterday. Delaware's gotten off to a good start here. So we will see how this, that game unfold, but we won't break that down. We did have, by the way, I need to remind the people, right, Aaron, subscribe and review. It really helps out the podcast. only takes a several seconds, five stars.

I think those are all the bullet points that Sheean puts out there. Sheen should be back early next week. I think we're going to have one more podcast on Monday. We'll see what pops. But let's get to some NFL news. And boy, what a blockbuster deal. It felt like with Aaron Rogers coming back, okay, everything's going to be status quo.

Devante Adams will sign a long-term deal. And not the case. The Raiders have acquired Devante Adams for a first and a second round pick in this year's draft, both towards the end. I think it's a 22nd overall pick and wherever that equates to in the second round. So, you know, a first and a second. And then Devante also signed a five-year, $141 plus million dollar deal, highest-paid wide receiver now in the NFL.

and the reports were, this is the interesting part, that the Packers Aaron were willing to match that or even pay him more to be the guy in Green Bay. So when you look at the NFC to bring it back closer to home and bring it back to the, you know, Washington, you know, this is the favorite or one of, I guess Tampa Bay is technically the favorite or was the favorite. And now, I mean, their odds haven't shifted, you know,

out of completely out of whack, because it's a wide receiver, not a quarterback. But it's a really fascinating situation out of the Packers find themselves in. And, you know, I don't know where they are in the pecking order. Here's the thing, though, because Devante Adams doesn't sign, that franchise tag was going to be a big, big cap hit. It was like 22-some-odd million bucks. Now they have some wiggle room.

And I think that Zadarius Smith, reneging from his deal from the Ravens, My hunch is that he's just going to go back to Green Bay. Now that they have money, I don't know if there's been reports about that. So I think that he will go back to Green Bay. And also, I said this morning when I was doing, I do a show in Milwaukee. I was saying it to them, now they have two firsts and two seconds. You can get a really good wide receiver for a second round pick, Aaron. It's not Devante Adams, but I think who, I don't know who it would be,

but I think the Packers will ultimately be aggressive. They'll draft a wide receiver, and I think they'll also get a wide receiver. receiver with some draft compensation. Yeah, I don't even know if they wait for the second round pick, someone like Jameson Berks, Chris, Alave in the first round. I think, you know, this is a little bit of a down class as far as the NFL draft goes, but wide receiver is the one place where it does seem pretty deep and really can go, you know, if you're talking about those late second round picks, a Sky Moore would be great there as well.

This is a class that really goes eight to ten deep as far as impact wide receivers. I do wonder deep down if they wish that this had happened. a little bit quicker and they could have been in on Alan Robinson, who signed with the Rams yesterday. Another big sign that kind of went under the radar because of all of these moves, but the Rams added Alan Robinson, who knows what will happen with OBJ and Robert Woods there, but they continue to restack when you're trying to rank the NFC teams right now. It probably is the Bucks. You can make the case for the Rams over the Packers, especially as we speak,

with the Packers having no wide receivers. Of course, there is Julio Jones out there. Juju Smith-Schuster has been connected with the Packers. it's not like they're going to go into camp with no stutter receivers. I assume they're going to get one of the two at least. And then probably a high-quality draft pick. But it's an interesting thing. And again, the fact that he was, whether it's because he just really desperately wanted

to play with Derek Carr or he was sick of all the drama around the Packers, the fact that he went away from the Packers, this, you know, great organization with a lot of obviously team success. And, you know, they're the team that's not supposed to have this drama. to have great players openly running away from them not for money reasons is wild. Yeah, it is. And, yeah, it's actually, it's one of the few times, you know, people do this all the time with the real estate trying to connect the dots with real estate.

Usually it takes you nowhere. But it actually worked out. Devante Adams bought a mansion in Las Vegas. It was reported by who was it, Las Vegas locally or something. There's a Twitter fee. There's a couple of Twitter fees. Vital Vegas. Yeah, something like that.

there's a couple Twitter feeds that have like the pulse on everything that's going on here in Las Vegas. But I mean, honestly, it's fun and I'm excited for the Raiders, but they're still the worst team in the division. I mean, that's the crazy thing is they're good. I mean, their playoff team, they've gotten better, Aaron, but they're still the worst team in that division because the Broncos, the reason they stunk was because of their quarterback play.

They now have Russell Wilson. The Chargers are getting better. J.C. Jackson was a big pickup for them. Kalil Matt. They trade for Kalim. Mac and the Chiefs are the Chiefs. So they're good, they're better. They've got a ton of weapons, right?

You've got Hunter Enfro and you've got, you know. Chandler Jones. They signed Chandler Jones. I mean, Darren Waller, arguably that, you know, he's certainly a top three tight end. The reliance on him in that offense will maybe come down a little bit. Now you have Devante Adams. But what a, yeah, what a wild thing.

And another star out of the NFC. I mean, it's crazy how much this. You know, the conference has shifted here. I know the Seahawks sucked last year, but still, I mean, it's Russell Wilson. I mean, you just never know. So you got that going on. And I think, now, I know you can never count out Bill Belichick and the Patriots, and they'll probably be better.

But, man, the bills have to be looking over at that division saying, man, I'm happy. I'm not over there because that's just going to be a war every single week. Do you think the Broncos had any idea what they were about to start when they traded? for Russell Wilson. They started a, like, it's like an old AL East arms race with the Yankees and Red Sox just trying to one up each other.

Because, like, as you said, between the Chiefs being so good, you have all these quarterbacks on rookie contracts, all the AFC teams, if they want to compete at all, have to just absolutely go nuts in free agency and trading.

And by having that first domino fall where the Broncos said, yeah, we're actually going for it. It made the Chargers step up. It made the Raiders step up. I'm actually a little surprised the bills haven't made a big move, though they did sign Vaughn Miller. So even they made a big move is everybody has to step up to match each other.

Meanwhile, the NFC is unloading, so none of those teams have to really do anything, except just kind of sit there. And, you know, in the case of the Buccaneers, let Tom Brady recruit Russell, Gage and Logan Ryan to come in and kind of fill the holes that you have there. It's just amazing to see how that one domino, and when we go back on it, I think it really is that one domino, Russell Wilson to the Broncos, completely changed both conferences. And just to put things in perspective, and I know I do talk a lot of gambling, so this is just the loan thing.

But I feel like it puts some things in perspective here and the meaning and the importance of a wide receiver. Devante Adams, arguably, the best wide receiver in the game, right? It's either him or Cooper Cup. And I would say Devante Adams, but, you know, tomato tomorrow. The Raiders acquired Devante Adams. They are still 30 to one, Aaron, to win the AFC. So that is just showing you how much movement. And then you scroll up, and this is courtesy of the Westgate Superbook here in Las Vegas,

you scroll up the Packers, still plus 450. So still the second favorite to win the NFC because Aaron Rogers is still there. So me and Sean, Sean King, my co-host, former Buckingier quarterback, we've gone back and forth and he thinks that the Packers should have unloaded Aaron Rogers. And I disagree. I mean, if you've got an elite quarterback, I know he's 39 and a pain in the ass, but you could just tell based on odds makers and they don't control the world, the importance of a quarterback is just so, so vital. I mean, when the Broncos got Russell Wilson, their odds cut in half. You know, maybe they overreacted too much.

When Tom Brady came back from retirement, you know, those odds shrunk immediately. Devante Adams goes to the Raiders, maybe a little bit. You know, nothing changes, though. Carson Wentz goes to the commanders. Yeah, nothing changes. Actually, in one book, it actually got worse. Speaking of that and speaking of quarterback odds cutting, the most fascinating thing over the past few days when it comes to NFL futures

hasn't been the reaction to the actual moves. It's been the reaction to everything around the Deshaun Watson saga. It's every time he's connected with the team, those odds shrink immediately. They go down. And now we're down to two the Saints and the Falcons, who have been really apparently putting on a full court press, and those odds have gone down tremendously.

To win the Super Bowl, by the way, and this is at Draft Kings, the Falcons over the past 48 hours have gone from 80 to 1 to win the Super Bowl to 20 to 1 to win the Super Bowl, all because of this idea that Deshawn Watson. And that's kind of where I want to go to. To bring this back home here, we'll bring back to something relevant to all of our commanders' listeners out there. let's assume that the Falcons, and apparently they are putting on a full-core press,

you have Hawks calling, like Hawks players, you have Braves players, you have local rappers calling Deshawn Watson's people, putting on this full-court press to try to get Deshawn Watson to the Falcons. If it's him, if Matt Ryan is available, if Baker-Mayfield is available, he wants out of the Browns, did the commanders jump too early on Carson Wentz? It's a good question, and, you know, I think it's, It's, I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast are wondering why, who were they bidding against? We talked about this yesterday with Ben when he was on a pod, you know, did they have to go out and give up, you know, a third this year and maybe even a second next year, probably a second next year, assuming that Carson Wentz, you know, hits that 70% threshold.

The question I though have is, who would you rather have Baker Mayfield or Carson Wentz? I would, I think I'd rather have Carson Wentz. I think. I don't know. There's not, there's not, there's not. not a lot of confidence in that. I mean, I think the peaks of Carson Wentz are certainly better, but it feels like the valleys are maybe worse. I mean, some of those games that you watched of him are just horrifying. You know, and then you have, I mean, people love the shit on Baker Mayfield as much as they can on social media. And, you know, I think I saw some people talking about, you know, look at how Matt Ryan's been handling this in stride and, you know, with all the Deshaun Watson rumors and Baker Mayfield has requested a trade. Yeah, I totally, I totally.

understand that. Also, you know, let's not pretend like Carson Wentz is, uh, is, you know, uh, certainly doesn't seem like he's loved by a many. But to answer your question, maybe not Baker Mayfield, but I'd be in for Matt Ryan. If Matt Ryan's released or, I mean, I know his contract is huge. Yeah. So that's the issue. But it's not like Carson Wentz is a part of it. I was going to say, you're, you're paying what, maybe eight million more for Matt Ryan, if that? I mean, I, I, I always have my questions about Matt Ryan, and then he won a MVP, and I'm like, okay, I'm cool with Matt Ryan. So, you know, looking at his, I'm curious, Aaron, does he go to Indianapolis? If Deshawn Watson... Someone goes to Indianapolis. And that's the thing, right? And to answer

your question, I do think maybe Washington pulled the trigger too early. However, I think they know. They know that they're not a desired destination, and maybe they can... And I would still think, that they're going to be very much in the quarterback market in the in the draft right you have to be you sure yeah no this was absolutely a you draft or you get wence as a bridge and you get i would assume in the first round but at worst a second round quarterback and i look at matt ryan i look at the uh the cap hit this year it's it's huge i mean so there'd be some restructuring i'm sure if atlanta trades him if they do get to sean watson which kind of seems the way the the wind is blowing. Kyle Pitts tweeted out and he's got the same agent, you know,

things are about to get serious or something to the effect of that. You know, the Falcons, I was very disappointed in them last year. I was expecting much more from Atlanta. I thought they would be a, you know, potential playoff team, but didn't they end up like seven and ten or eight and nine? They actually surprisingly were better than you thought. So long story short, I think if Deshaun Watson goes to it, Atlanta. I mean, with Kyle Pitts, with the weapons that they have, I think they're 100% a legitimate NFC contender. And then if Matt Ryan goes to Indianapolis, I mean, I don't know that. I just think that would make a lot of sense. They just need someone not to screw it up. And that's

what Carson Wentz, unfortunately did too many times. They've got so many weapons everywhere. I mean, you've got a potential MVP in Jonathan Taylor, Michael Pitts, Whitman is a dude that I love. Ty Wyleton, is he a free agent? I think he's still there under contract. You've got an elite offensive line. You've got playmakers on the defense. Hilton is a free agent.

Okay. So, yeah, I don't know if Hilton's coming back. But yeah, I mean, right now Indianapolis is kind of twiddling their thumb saying, all right, who are we getting? Because Houston said, you ain't getting to Sean Watson within conference or division. So maybe Matt Ryan makes sense. They're going to get, as you mentioned, they're going to get someone. They're not playing a court rookie.

They're going to get a guy because that's what they need. need. They thought Carson Wins was that guy. They didn't get him. But yeah, I do think maybe Washington jumped the gun a little too early, but I also think they know who they are. And they probably were saying, yeah, Carson Wins might be the best we can do. And that might end up being the case, because we know, like, let's just assume that everyone who is rumored is actually available. Let's assume that, so let's, wherever Deshaun goes, either it's Matt Ryan available from Atlanta. James. James Winston from New Orleans is available. Let's assume. Baker is available just even though

they've denied, let's just for sake of this conversation, let's assume. One of those three quarterbacks I feel like is in Indianapolis. Could, you know, maybe Washington get a Baker Mayfield if that's, they could, but again, apparently Seattle's also very, you know, doesn't just want to

go forward with a rookie, even though it probably should in my mind. But, you know, Pete Carroll's getting up there. He doesn't want to just coach a project. They're apparently going to go hard after somebody, whether it's Matt Ryan, whether it's Baker Mayfield, whether it's James Winston. So you're right, it might be the situation that if you're going against Indianapolis,

if you're going against Seattle for all of these quarterbacks, that they're going to be low on the totem pole, and they realized that. Now, what does that say? And what does that mean going forward? I think you have to kind of step back and look at that when it's beyond simply a winning fixes everything situation. Yeah, I'm looking right now. I thought I saw someone reported that Matt, Matt,

Ryan's top choice was Indianapolis, but, you know, that could have been. Well, I'm sure everyone's top choice is Indianapolis with that a lot. You don't have to be hit every time. Exactly. And if you're Matt Ryan at 37 and you're trying to, you know, kind of finish your career with on a high note, I mean, God, I mean, the Colts, again, the AFC would just get better. So I like James Winston. Um, you know, he's a risky option. Um, I would have preferred him in Washington over Carson Wentz, to be honest. Especially with that, with those trade. No compensation. So we'll see.

But yeah, it's fascinating to see by the time this podcast drops, maybe Deshaun Watson, you know, people thought I was watching Schefter last night, you know, when I got home from work at like 2 o'clock Eastern. And he said, you know, it could happen any minute now. So I think by the time we reconvene on Monday, we could have some big news on Deshawn Watson and that quarterback carousel continuing to move. All right. We'll take a couple, one more break.

And then when we come back, a good friend of mine, We'll talk some hoops with Dan Engelstad. He is the head coach of Mount St. Mary's. They lost Aaron to Bryant. Peter Kiss, the man blowing kisses. So we'll talk a little bit about him, some end-of-game strategy because it seems like coaches are getting puckered tight towards the end of games.

St. Peter's beating Kentucky. We'll get to all of that. A fun conversation with my good friend and Whitman alum, Dan Engelstad, right after these messages. As promised, the pride of Walt Whitman High School, and I'm not talking about Kevin Sheean. I'm talking about the men's basketball coach at Mount St. Mary's a good friend of mine. And we're just two guys watching college basketball right now. Dan Engelstadt joins us.

Dan, you are, in my opinion, you know, it's Sheen and Engelstead. I don't know where you rank in the Walt Whitman hierarchy of famous alums. But appreciate you jumping on, man. I actually think in the current moment, we might be third. My guy Antoine White just let his women's team to the NCAA tournament. They had a tough loss to Longwood yesterday. But Antoine, another proud Whitman alum who won a state championship and, you know, got into this crazy coaching business.

I had a chance to coach Antoine in both high school and in college. But I was so proud to see him lead his own team in his first year. And, you know, that's what happens sometimes. And you win it in your first year. It's how it is every year. But, you know, proud to be a Whitman alum. And, you know, I'm proud to, you know, talk about Antoine, too. Man, that's my guy.

And Kevin, you know, it was awesome jumping on last year around this time with him. And we were in the tournament. So hopefully, come this time next year, you know, I can be on for different reasons that we got our group back to the NCAAs. Yeah, I felt like I was your media agent. I was just texting everyone I knew. I'm like, got to get my guy Dan on. You got to talk about the mount. So, no, the success that you guys have had has been phenomenal.

Obviously, heartbreak up there at Bryant a couple weekends ago. I want to talk about that Bryant team here in a little bit. But, you know, I want to hit on a lot of things with you, you know, now that you've been to the NCAA tournament as a head coach, that first four situation. But, you know, last night, I'm sitting there in the sports book and the place is going absolutely bonkers as St. Peter's is, you know, coming back against Kentucky. And you think about this Kentucky team. And look, you know, in my bracket, I had them going to

the championship game. I looked at the back court of Wheeler and Washington and, you know, big O down low, going to be the player of the year nationally. And, you know, Kellyn Grady, a guy who can just hit, you know, hit threes from anywhere. But he was cold last night. You know, Taitai Washington had a bunch of turnovers. And these types of things happened. But the reason I, you know, I, you know, the gears started going because, you know, you guys play these bygars. games early on in the year. I think you, did you play Kentucky this year? Like Kentucky and Villanova. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not allowed to bet on college sports, but my wife and I fill a bracket out every year. And, you know, we had a back massage on the

line. And I had, I had Kentucky and Villanova because they're the two teams that we played this year. And I wanted to somehow have a way to help them get to the end. But yeah, what a game last night that was. So, and then, you know, I think I saw a tweet that every, assistant on Kentucky's staff is higher paid than the head coach at St. Peter's. St. Peter's, I mean, it has, what, 2,300 students and the fact that they are beating Kentucky, that's what makes this so amazing. But, you know, when you see that happen, is this something that you'll go to your team

and be like, look, St. Peters is the same enrollment or right around what we are. You know, they just went toe to toe. They just beat Kentucky, one of the bigger upsets we've ever seen. You know, these types of things can happen. So do you find yourself as the head coach of the Mount, you know, pulling a little bit more for for upsets like this, like St. Peters, a team from the Mac. And, you know, I think I saw a tweet that they have,

Kentucky's budget is like 12 and a half times the budget of St. Peter's. And St. Peter's beat him, man, any given night. It's wild. Yeah, we'll draw on that for inspiration for sure. I mean, it's a great story. But those guys, you know, you can just tell from the very beginning.

You know, I was able to watch the beginning. and I was flipping back and forth between Antoine, who was playing in his first four game. But, you know, as the game wound down, I was just piled into. And you could just tell those guys, there was no fear. There was no back down. And, you know, the thing that St. Peters has is they got five guys that can go create a shot. And they defend at such a high level. You know, I saw Petino talk about the job that Coach Holloway has done.

And, you know, there's people that when you coach against somebody, you know what their team's about. And you can just tell it there about the toughness, the gritty, to getting the big stops. And you can tell they had an edge to them. And that starts the top. But yeah, we'll use that for motivation. We play those type of games every year, you know, for a school like Mount St. Mary's. We've got to bring in some money games. So we're going to go play the Kentuckies and the Villanovas of the world.

And it's happened. And it happens, especially when you get to a neutral site, when you get to, you know, you have veteran guys that have played a lot of college basketball and just won a conference tournament. And you can see when those teams there, there's a fine balance, you know, they're locked in, they're executing, but they're also loose and having fun and every big three. And you could just tell at St. Peters yesterday was the team that had a lot more fun playing the game. And when they got close, it's almost like Kentucky's thinking like we're not supposed to be in the situation. And every time that Kentucky would go in a minor run, you just say St. Peters would step up and make a big player,

a big shot or a 50-50 that, you know, led to them pulling one of the all-time upsets in college basketball and what the country's talking about right now. And, of course, that's what you dream about. You know, that's what you, you know, when I talk to our recruits and we talk to our players is, you know, we want to go to the NCAA tournament and we want to win games. And to be able to do that, you've got to have examples in front of them that have done it before. And hats off to what St. Peters did, a team that, as you said, I've been to Kentucky. I've in there, we've played there twice. That is a production, that is a show that is like BBN is something different and it's a, it's a unique experience to go play them. But to be able to, you know, do it on

that stage, you know, really again, hats off to St. Peter's. And that games in Indianapolis. So BBN was certainly in full force there. So they were able to win that. It was pretty cool to see the watch party that was going on on St. Peter's campus. Another just coaching thought. as I kind of channel my inner Sheean because he's, you know, he always loves to give his opinions and analysis on coaching. You know, a couple on, you know, whenever people are listening to this. So Thursday night, you're watching San Diego State, just a tremendous defensive team, come down the wire. They're up nine, I think they were up, they were up nine against Creighton. And they tightened up and, you know, Creighton goes on a nine-oh run to end regulation.

They win in overtime. And then similarly, Murray State in San Francisco, which, by the way, I know for people back east, it was super late, but goodness gracious. I mean, the shot making in that game, the kid Bouyei for San Francisco was, was unbelievable with his shots. He just took that game over, but Murray State prevails. But San Francisco ends that game on an eight-old run. So when you're standing there on the sideline, you know, in these coaches' shoes, you know, and you've been in championship games before,

how do you try to avoid the tightness? And I think even McMahon for for Murray, Murray State alluded to the fact that he messed up towards the end and was got a little too complacent there. So how do you avoid just that tightness? You're up eight, you're staring at the second round of the NCAA tournament or you're staring at an auto bid for for your conference, whatever it may be. How do you as a coach try to keep things normal because you're seeing it kind of regularly happen? And it's not new. It's just that tightness sets in for these players. Yeah, it's natural. And so that's what we have to fight against. And,

you just really try to get your guys, like, present in that moment. And, you know, especially when you're up and you're trying to close out games, there's that balance between, you know, you're up, you're trying, you want that clock to go down. And, you know, I kind of similar to football, right? You know, you talk about prevent defense. Like, you still got to stay on the attack. You still got to take advantage of opportunities when they come because, you know,

the defense on the other side is usually going to be more aggressive. And you got to finish some plays. And you just can't look ahead. You know, you can't look to that final horn because there's so much that can happen in a short amount of time. No different. You know, we had a tough loss the other night where we're up eight with like six, seven minutes to go. But you got to close it out. You got to execute.

You got to continue to get stops. And, you know, I like to say to our guys, you know, we got to continue to be locked in, but also loose. You know, and during that time, it's so important that. that you your guys are in a good mental state. And as a coach, they got to see you, you know, poised as well as just, you know, because it is human nature. And, you know, runs do happen in our game fast. And it's like when they do happen, everybody's looking around and you can be a deer in headlights at times.

But it's just trying to weather the storm and get back to being able to, you know, execute and hopefully make your free throws down the stretch too. Because usually when you're up, you miss a couple free throws. Everything changes. Yeah, I feel poor. real bad. Matt Bradley for San Diego State, two, two free throws, eight seconds to go, misses both. They go to overtime. They lose. So he's coming back. He announced he'll be back, so hopefully he can better that. But one final thought before we kind of dive into you and your road

from your days of balling at Whitman to now being the head coach at Mount St. Mary's. But, you know, when you look around the country, I know you played Villanova, you played Kentucky, Kentucky getting bounced. As we talked about, Kansas, in my opinion, is playing exceptionally well. know, by the time this airs or people are listening to it, Villanova's probably already played. But, you know, when you look around the country, who right now, in your opinion, is playing some of the best ball? Yeah, there's a couple teams that are playing really well. You can ever look past, you know, a Gonzaga team, especially with their how loaded they are

from the guard play. And then, you know, they have really great posts. And, you know, they got tested yesterday, which I actually think is a good thing. They were tested for a lot of that game and were able to push it out late against Georgia State. But they're just so balanced. They're so well coached. I really like what Gonzaga is doing. And, you know, another team that I think is really playing well right now and hasn't played well all season.

And I know they're going to match up against Gonzaga is UNC. So I think that's going to be a heck of a basketball game. You know, I think UNC's playing with a lot of confidence. And they look great against Marquette yesterday. You know, they also have a great interior line. but at the end of the day, it comes down to guard play. You know, I think Auburn's got some really good guards. You know, I know they're in a good game as just being taped right now against Jacksonville State.

But I think they can make a late run. And, you know, you always look at the Dukes of the world, you know, especially with Coach Kay and everything that is going on there and they fell short in the ACC tournament. I know they haven't been playing their best basketball, but, you know, I wouldn't surprise me for them. make a run here late. Yeah, it'll be interesting. They play Fullerton on Friday night. So, you know, once again, when people are listening to this, who knows what has happened, the danger of recording podcasts. But yeah, hard to disagree. UNC will give Baylor quite the test.

And then Memphis, I think there'll be an interesting situation there for, for Gonzaga, with the athleticism, a penny squad has. All right, let's get into, let's get into you. Let's get into the mount a little bit, let people know more about you that that may not, you know, you a little bit. So you graduated from Whitman, what, in 03? 03, yeah. O'3. Ballin probably, uh, all gazette, you know, rest in peace to the Gazette, man, I missed the Gazette. That was, uh, the Potomac, the Gazette. Oh, yeah. He used to get those write-ups. Those are, those are the best when you have a little write-up in the Gazette. And Jake Schaller, I don't know if you remember Jake. That was the guy.

Jake was the guy. You knew it was, yeah, you knew it was big. I got to find those press clipping somewhere in my my parents' house. So you go from there, you go to St. Mary's, St. Mary's College. And that's a good, good, good D3 school. So at what point did you think, all right, coaching is for me, you know, and then what was next after you rolled with, you rolled out of college in 07? So it was when I was playing. I just finished playing up at Whitman And they asked me that summer to coach the summer league team. And, you know, I didn't, I knew I wanted to be involved with sports somehow and loved, you know, being around the game. And I got a chance to coach the younger JV guys for that summer league team.

And it was so much fun. And I was trying to teach some of the things that I had learned. And I didn't know a whole lot back then. But, you know, just to see how the guys responded. And it was a really good young group. I got really spoiled. a couple of those guys that were just coming in were Antoine White, who I talked about. Mike Gruner, who was a Division 1 player at Lafayette.

And, you know, you coached Mike Grunner? Yeah, I was able to work with. That was my guy. We played I-270 together. Team Potomac, baby. We were talking about missing free throws. I still remember it. I was, you know, anyone who ever played I-270 grown up,

it was always played at Nielsville Middle School. and we were in the championship against the essentially the McGruder team. And Gruner got hurt. So it was like Churchill kids, myself, and then Gruner. And at the free throw line, closing seconds, your boy misses the first, makes the second, go to triple overtime and we lose. Not that I remember, Dan. Not that I remember. That's a good memory, man, to go out of that.

But he was, he was a baller, man. And he won, what, a state title at Whitman? So he was legit. No, he was legit. And one of the few Division I players. has never come out of there and he had a good career at Lafayette and someone I still keep in touch with, but his brother was my teammate, Mark Gruner, who's now a doctor in the area. But, you know, those guys were just so fun to coach and they, that group ended up putting together a state

championship run and I just fell in love with it, kept learning. And then, you know, once I got to college, I really had an amazing basketball mind and coach. And, you know, I saw the game from a completely different lens from a defensive angle. And Brock Cantrow was an assistant at Miami. He was an assistant to Tulane. And he came to St. Mary's and, you know, really pushed us hard. And I loved it. And I was like, you know, this is, you know, I'm looking at the game different. I see it. I tried to put some of that stuff into play at Whitman and through the help of Matt Miller, who's on my staff now, who was a teammate of mine. You know, we really learned the defensive side of the basketball. basketball and you just fell in love with coaching and took it from there and then graduated from

St. Mary's not knowing what I was going to do in my life. I was actually running camps at Whitman at the time with Chris Lund. So we started our own basketball camp and I remember it was the first year that they won the state championship and we ran it and we did it at Woodacres because Whitman was being renovated and we had like 50 plus kids show up and and now I think that camp brings a couple hundred kids in every week and Coach Lund I think does a great job with that camp. and I think he profits a little bit too from it. Good, he should. Yeah, no, he should.

He's done a great job with that program, but it's a great camp. But I started that with him, and I was going to start a training business, and we actually had an LLC, and we're going to call it fast break training. And I just graduated, and long story short, but I moved my dad, work State Department. I was out in Africa, and I just graduated, figuring out what I was doing my life. and I got an email, some spotty internet, and it was asked if I had interest in the third assistant spot at Mount St. Mary's. And I'm 22 years old, and I was like, wow, like, I'd love to coach college. I didn't know that would be my path.

St. Mary's had offered me to coach their JV team and come back there. But I knew, you know, I was ready for a new challenge. And I interviewed like four times for this $5,000 position. And I found out I got it because Jamie and Christian, who was the former head coach and was the GW head coach, He turned it down. I think four different times. Milano wanted Jamiean to come back and take the at that point he would take the salary. So because Jamie and turned it down, I ended up hopping on as the third assistant in Mount St. Mary's in 2007. And in that year, we ended up going the NCAA tournament and playing Carolina and had that first year, good luck charm. And here I am,

you know, 15 years later sitting in the head coach of school that gave me a chance. And, you know, I've had a crazy journey. It's been filled with a lot ups and downs, but it's such a, you know, it's been amazing and I'm very blessed to be in the spot. So I want to jump ahead a little bit here. So the reason I got to know, Dan, well, it's two-fold. We can get into the second part a little bit later on. We don't have to dive into it because you're in a better spot and things happen for a reason.

But I was, you know, flipping through the sports page as one to do as a Saturday host at ESPN 980. And I see this cover story about a D3 school in southern Vermont. I'm like, oh, sweet. So I'm reading it up on it. And I get your contact information. You come on my Saturday show. We keep in touch. I keep tabs on it.

So you decided, and I could only imagine the leap of faith. So you were at Holy Cross, a D1 assistant, and you decided to take over a D3 basketball program that was one in 24. and your first ever game, correct me if I'm wrong, you played Duncan Robinson. Yeah. Who is now on the, who is now, you know, on the top team in the Eastern Conference has played in the NBA finals. Now he ultimately transferred to Michigan. But your first ever game, you take over a one in 24 team.

I can only imagine how terrible things were when you take over that. How, why, and then, and you beat Duncan Robinson. I mean, that has to be. we're talking about St. Peter's beating, you know, Kentucky. I mean, for Southern Vermont to beat Williams, was it Williams or Amherst? It was Williams, yeah. Williams. I mean, that is, that doesn't happen. So, yeah, how did the Southern Vermont situation come about, which ultimately led to where you sit now?

So the stars aligned about as perfect as they could for that. So I'll start with, you know, Holy Cross. Coach Milan Brown was my coaching mentor. someone who I'm still very close with. I worked six years with him, and I really was just anxious to call a time out and screw it up. And I didn't care what level. I didn't care what gym.

I was at that point, less than I was 28, 29 years old, and didn't have a family, and wasn't dating anybody. So I was, I was ready for any adventure, and I was going to make that situation the best that I could. And a Whitman connection and a close family connection was on the board of trustees in Southern Vermont and asked if I'd have interest. in their coaching position. They were struggling and, and, you know, I didn't care that they'd won one game.

I didn't know what I was going to do, but I just knew that I had a lot of enthusiasm and energy to try to build a program. And, you know, I knew that there would be a fresh start. And they gave me that opportunity. And I just, right when I got the job, it was immediate. I went in recruiting. And, you know, you're talking about that Washington Post story. You know, the thing about Division three is it's not full scholarships. So you can bring in a new team pretty fast. And, Through my connections of being the lead recruiter to Holy Cross, I was in gym after gym after gym. That's all I did. I was traveling the country and my main ties were to where I grew up, the Washington, D.C. area. And, you know, I ended up getting some supremely talented guys to trust

me to come up there. One of them was Antoine White. I mean, here's a great story. Antoine's 24 years old at this time and was this a JV coach at Walt Whitman High School. He played at Chesapeake, blew his knee out and didn't finish and get his degree. So I call Antoine up and Antoine at this point it's like hasn't thought about going back to school, you know, hasn't really thought about playing. And I call him and I said, Antoine, like, you got to do this, man. Like you need your degree. I know you're a great coach, but like you're going to need this to progress. Like you want to be a head high school coach. You want to trace your dream as a college. And you're going to need this degree. And he's like, I can't talk to you right now. He's like, he's like, I'm in Vegas.

It's overwhelming. He's like, I'm having a great time. I call you. you with the weekend ends. I said, great, man, enjoy yourself. And he calls me up, and I, and I ended up meeting with him. And I said, we got to do this. We got, we got a, we got to, we got to, we got to try to make this happen because I knew I needed a leader. I need someone that I could control the locker room. I knew he needed to get a degree. And so he's one of the guys that trusted me and came up there and helped lead the thing. And now he's leading his own Division I women's program, which is remarkable himself. But Antoine and about five other guys from that ended up being like the core of what we built there. And I'm so proud of them and they all are doing really well with their lives and we all

stay in touch and it really was a special run there at Southern Vermont we had. But to talk about our first game and I've kept in not in touch, but I see Duncan Robinson from here to here. And I like to remind them every time that his last game was in the final four division one. And his first game was a division three loss to Southern Vermont. It's a student body of like 400 students. And we have a great time talking about it. But all the stars in line for us to win that game. It was I had brand new players. It was the first game of the season.

Williams was ranked number one in most publications in the country. A couple publications had them two or three. We weren't even known. We were like four hundred tenth out of four hundred fourteen schools or whatever it was. But I had a brand new team. So we walk out there. If we had played them in January, we would have been smoked.

But they had no scouting report on any of my players. I brought guys like Antoine and older guys. And there just was. no fear. And we had this belief that we were going to go in there. But I do recall early in the game, I had a 6-8 New Zealander. He swing with the Duncan Robinson in the corner. He rips baseline, two dribble, take off, and dunks it on him. And I knew that he was a freshman. I knew he was highly touted. But I remember looking over to my assistant and be like, yeah, he's not supposed to be here. He's not supposed to be in this game. And sure enough, he was, you know, rookie of the year in all

Division 3 and, you know, now he's, you know, one of the highest paid shooters in the NBA. And, you know, but, and, but just it was, it was remarkable. The next year we played him and we actually beat him again, and we were better than they were that season. But my first year, you know, we, it was a special deal. And, you know, kind of one of those things, I thought it was going to be a lot easier than it was. That same season, we lost to some of the teams that I have four wins on their year.

We beat the number one team in the country. So, you know, coaching, it's, it's always been. be a roller coaster, but that was one of the great memories and moments of my early career. So I played D3 hoops and went to a school in Pennsylvania, and I, this is when me and you got to know each other really well, was our coaching position, my alma mater's coaching position came up, and I pushed real hard for Dan. We had a lot of phone calls, and ultimately they poorly went in a different route, much to my chagrin, and we don't have to get into the details of that. But it all works out because a year later, you're a Division I head coach.

So, you know, to go from D3 to D1, you know, some names that, you know, might be familiar to some people. You know, obviously Mike Lonergan did it, you know, from Catholic U. he went on the Gary staff and then, you know, ultimately landed at GW after Vermont, you know, Mike Rhodes at VCU, Randolph-Macon, but he had to be an assistant, you know, on Shaka Smart staff. Dave Paulson went straight from D3 to Division 1. Nate Davis, another guy, Bucknell's head coach right now. So it's kind of rare. And I knew when Jamie and Christian left for Sienna,

that you certainly would be up for this job. You know, how did that process all play out? And, you know, the fact that you had ties to the mount, obviously was a massive factor. But were there questions from, you know, the hiring process about a Division III coach being a D1 coach and how confident were you that ultimately this would, you know, that it would pay it out,

which it has. You guys have already gone to the NCAA tournament. Yeah, no, it was, I had gone through the interview process quite a bit before that, whether it be the Southern Vermont job or going for other jobs. So I felt prepared. I felt ready for that process. But, you know, this wasn't just the mound had, I think, at a short list. A lot of them had connections to the mount. And for me, I'm very fortunate.

You know, it is, like you said, it is a unique jump. And it's, there is a transition to do it. I mean, it's, it's a much more of a CEO position. But I just painted a picture of what that university meant to me and why I'd be able to recruit young men to really help us achieve our goals of going the NCAA tournament and trying to win games and, you know, what that, that experience meant to me. And, you know, these are relationships that when I was there 15 years previous, you know, I kept in touch with, you know, I'm, I, like,

kept in touch with the athletic director. I kept in touch with people around the university when the Mount played Buffalo, in Buffalo, when they played Villanova in the first round. I wanted to be there because the Mount meant so much to me. And, you know, I'm very fortunate. You know, there was a lot of really good candidates up for that job. And, you know, I'm very blessed that they picked me. But it's, it is a transition.

And it's not easy one. And, you know, you learn things every day in the seat. And it's a, like I said, It's a much more CEO spot. It's much more management of people. And it's so much fun. And you get a chance to really be challenged every single day in this spot. But it's every day.

And you know, you can be good one year. And it can fall quick. So you've got to always stay up. You always got to be recruiting. But, you know, I'm excited about what's still to come here at the mound. And I'm thankful they gave me this shot, you know, five seasons ago. So what has it been like recruiting? You know, you growing up in the area, going to Whitman, you know, you know, staying local, going to St. Mary's and going back to the Mount.

I'm just curious when you walk into a high school gym because you look around, I mean, God, I mean, the players you probably played against, you know, I mean, you know, for me growing up in the high school realms, you know, Mike Beasley, Nolan Smith, Chris Wright, you know, Dante Cunningham, all these guys played pro, played big time D1. And so I always felt like when I went Division III, Dan, there was a weird perception in the D.C. area about Division III that it was, you know, it's intermurals. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. So because when I went up to, you know, Mulemberg, New Jersey has the right frame of mind, right? The New Jersey kids embrace the D3. I remember talking to Mike Rhodes at Randolph-Macon before he ultimately is at VCU. And he said, I don't even recruit the D.C. area because those kids, they see their. their buddies go into Georgetown and Maryland and Kansas and wherever, and they don't want to go to a D3 school. He's like, I just go to New Jersey. I just get those kids. So obviously you're in a much different situation. You're a D1 program.

But how familiar are people, even though there's the proximity to the D.C. area, you walk into the gym at, you know, DMA or at Paul the 6th. How familiar are they with the Mount? And how much did the NCAA tournament run help you guys? I always think that helps. You know, I think they're familiar more with the Mount. You know, Mount's been the NCAA tournament now multiple times. You know, we were fortunate up to go last year.

Jamie and went a few times here. I was part of a 2007, 2008. So there's been runs to the dance, and that's important. And both Jamie and want to play in game and Milan want to play in game here. So there's that past record of success. And also, you know, that's home to me. So I do think, you know, being really close. with Glenn Frello, who's the head coached Paul the 6th.

We coached together. We coached the TBT together. It's a good guy to know, by the way. He's got a couple guys on Duke. So, you know, he always got good guys. And you've got to recruit this area because there's so many good players. Like we just got a commitment from a young man this past week who played at Xavier Lipscomb, who played at St. Stephen and St. Agnes. And we followed him a ton.

He's transferring in from Radford. So we're able to get guys, too, not just through the high school recruiting. experience, but on the transfer, too. And some of our best players, you know, have been local guys that, you know, we've been able to get in the transfer portal. And recruiting's changed that way. You've got to constantly be recruiting.

But, you know, it is nice that, you know, in our backyard, we have the elite players. And, you know, we're going to keep working and try to get the best ones that can help elevate our program. But it's tough, you know, and especially when, you know, a guy can help your program and you've got to battle the schools that are, local too. You got some really good schools and some really good conferences. So,

you know, there's a, you got to get the right ones. I got to imagine there's stories, you know, you've been there now going on five years. You're, you're on a, you know, a freshman or a sophomore at Gonzaga. You got a great rapport. And then they're starting to blow up. And then here comes, you know, you know, John Shire. And you're like, oh, come on, man. Like, there's got to be stories because that's the unfortunate part of where you guys are. Doug McDaniel at Paul of Six. We're good at being the first. And usually we don't get the I do.

So sometimes we feel like we're doing work for other colleges because, you know, they see that they've been offered by a Division I school and then everybody starts following up. And so there's kind of an art to it too. You don't, you know, you want to make sure you're recruiting guys that are attainable as well. But yeah, it's happened all the time. And, you know, it's such a balance for us, right? Especially when you get to AAU, you're watching a guy. you want to make sure that he's good enough.

And then once you know he's good enough, you want him to miss every single shot. You actually, like, I shouldn't say this, but like you actually want him to tweak, like minor tweak to his ankle. So he's not as explosive and dunking on somebody. It's like bad thoughts go into your brain when you really want a guy.

And it's the reality of it, man. It's crazy business, man, crazy. You guys do all the homework. And then, you know, here comes Coach Cal with that Kentucky letter. And you're like, well, it was fun. It's like I've heard I've heard constantly about college football you know, you know, they do all the groundwork and then here comes Sabin with that offer. And you're like, well, it was fun. All right. See you later.

Maybe we spent all this money on you. Good luck. Yeah, on to the next one. No, man, this has been fun to chop it up with you watching the success. Real quickly, though, I just want to go back. You know, I'm as people have figured out me just filling in for Sheehan and talking to Sheen on this podcast. I'm a college hoops junkie. And, you know, watching that Bryant championship game and they ultimately lost a right state, I don't know what to think about Peter Kiss because so if anyone missed it, he was going around social media quite a bit with his antics, so to speak.

But he, you know, he balls out. So I know you guys actually had some success with him, slowing him down a little bit. You know, as a coach, you know, what do you tell your players? because he seems like an agitator, right? He wants to get under your skin. We've all played against those guys. And if you let, it feels like he's the type of guy. And I don't want to feel like I'm speaking out of term,

but like if you give him an inch, he's going to take a mile. So if you show that he's bugging you, he's just going to lick, you know, eat it up. So, you know, what did you make of, of Peter Kiss? And, you know, he's part of your conference. So they're playing right state. I got to imagine because I read a New York article, New York Post piece was like, Some coaches didn't want to talk about him. So he had, he certainly seems like the polar raising type of,

of young man out there. So Peter gets the player, he is, I mean, with the nation's leading score. Yeah. I mean, he was something, I mean, you watched the game film, and he just played so free. He shot any shot that he could possibly get up and supremely talented and got better with time and was, you know, a force in our league for the last couple of years.

But you said it. I mean, he is one of those guys that is going to try to get under your skin. He's going to try to do every little trick to intimidate your team, to intimidate staff. And the biggest thing that we failed one time and then we did well twice is don't entertain it. Don't entertain it. Like almost act like it's not happening.

And, you know, we had much better success when it was just lock in. let him do his thing, don't worry about it, and just stick to playing hard. And we frustrated him. We were able to make him work for all of his shots. He still was able to get, I think, 16 points. But that's, you know, nine below his average in the semifinal game. And we made him work for it. And, you know, it's just he's a really gifted kid.

You know, I don't love all the antics that he does. But, you know, I saw a comparison to Marshall Henderson the other day. I said, yes, that's not too far off. The kid from Old Miss, right? Yeah. He, you know, but Peter Kiss is a really talented player. And, you know, I hope he goes on and hope he gets the heck out of the NEC. Yeah.

Those makes some money. But he, you know, he definitely, he definitely embraced by the Bryant fans. And he's the opposing teams, you know, I think we're all excited that, you know, hopefully his time is done. Yeah, it was, you know, they, I watched it, you know, a little bit of Bryant, you know, obviously watched your guys game, you know, streaming. And then the, they do a bump in before the coverage of the NEC championship on ESPN 2. And he's like, you know, laying on the ground, he's got a kiss t-shirt on. He's like sticking out his tongue. I'm like, oh, this dude's going to embrace. He, he ain't nervous about being on ESPN, you know. I think he blew me a kiss before the game. I just, I'm trying to look the other way. All right. Well, Dan, I appreciate it, man. This was fun. You know, continued success. Obviously, I'm always pulling for you. And it's been a ton of fun to watch you. And I think I sent you. It was like two years ago. I sent you a text message. You guys played Georgetown. You lost by like, I think you were up at the half and you lost by like 11 or 12. And I said a picture of you shaking hands with Patrick Ewing. And I put a quote on. I said, good game. You're never playing us again. We need them on the schedule.

I need one more game locally, so we're trying to get somebody. By the way, you need, I'm putting it on the air right now. You need a call Kevin Kruger. I'll go walk down right now. I need the mount at the running revs at some point. Thomas and Mack needs some mount in their life.

How far are you from L.A.? Four hours? Yeah, that's a drive. We're coming to U.S.C., baby. You're going to USC? There we go, man. Let's get you to USC. And then we got, we got, I don't know if I was supposed to announce that it's not officially yet, but USC, I think we're going to play. It's not official. I got a contract got to get worked out. So it's not. But I think we might be out there for a couple games as well. So we, I think we got a three game.

But up, but, up, ba, ba, ba, ba, but, Andy Enfield, man, two D3 bros just going against each other. Pride of Hopkins. I'm very familiar. I know his name was up for the Maryland job. to talk about Andy back here. Yeah. I'm sure. Well, I was, I was convinced that, you know, he was going to leave, you know, everyone wants to go back to their alma mater, you know, Johns Hopkins might come open here. So I don't know, maybe he goes. I think he's doing. I think he's doing all right. That is, well, now I know what I'm doing. Easy drive to L.A. We'll do a little Disneyland. We'll do a little mount and USC. That sounds spectacular. Dan, you're the man. In my opinion, it goes Engelstad Sheehan as the biggest Whitman

alums. But I appreciate it, brother. And we'll talk soon. You're the best. Appreciate you, thank you to Dan Engelstad, the pride of Whitman High School. Sheen, once again, still out for a couple more days. We will do one more show on Monday. As I've been told, you need to subscribe, review. It really helps out the podcast. Only takes a couple of seconds. That is what I've been told to say. All right, we will talk to you on Monday.

Enjoy the weekend.