The Kevin Sheehan Show - Mariota Back; More Defense Too

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Kevin opened with Marcus Mariota re-signing with Washington on another 1-year deal. The Skins also added DT Eddie Goldman and CB Jonathan Jones. Barry Svrluga/Washington Post jumped on to talk Commanders, college basketball, Terps, Ovechkin, and more. Steve Sands/NBC & Golf Channel joined Kevin from The Players Championship in Jacksonville to talk Tiger Woods and much more including the Caps, Terps, and Skins.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. One of the best fourth-down teams of the NFL this year. Has Marioato taken off? It's sprinting into the red zone.

Down by three, less than 30 seconds left. Marcus Marietta had a few moments during the 2024 season, but the final drive in that final regular season game of the year in Dallas, That was memorable. Mariota, staying put in Washington. The show's presenting sponsor is Window Nation, 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com if you need new windows. Mention my name, they'll give you a free in-home estimate,

and I promise you they'll take good care of you. I've got two guests on the show today. Barry's Ruluga from the Washington Post next segment, and then Steve Sands will jump on in the final segment Steve is at TPC Sawgrass for the Players' Championship, but I promise you the conversation will not be exclusively about golf. It never is with Steve. He will want to talk about, I am sure, Laramie Tunsell and Alex Ovechkin and a lot of other things.

So Barry next, Sands after that. So let's start with Marcus Mariotta coming back on a one-year, $8 million deal, or up to $8 million, according to the reporting. So roughly $2 million more than he got from the team last year. This for me is very good news. And I would bet it's better news for many of you than it was a year ago. Remember, the signing of Mario da last off season was not that popular among many of the fans. But, you know, he was really worth it.

For starters, he was a. major influence in a positive way on Jaden Daniels. How many times unsolicited did we hear Jaden bring up Mario Dota's name in a very positive context? And then on top of his mentoring of Jaden, he played great when called upon. He came in for Jaden in that Carolina game back on October 20th. You know, that was the first drive, first run, Jaden 51 yards, bruises or injuries. his injures his rib or ribs. We never did get the specific details on whether it was just one rib, as Chris Rock might say.

But remember, Mariotta came in for Jaden after he finished that drive. And the first drive for Mariota was super ugly. He looked nervous. He took a sack. They went three and out. But after that, the next six possessions in that game against the Panthers

with Marioada at the helm. Three touchdowns, three field goals, 30 points. Washington beat Carolina that day, 40 to 7 to improve to 5 and 2 on the year. Marioita went 18 of 23 for 205 yards, two touchdowns, no turnovers, plus he ran for 34 yards in that game.

And then in the season finale, in Dallas off the bench, 15 of 18 for 161 yards, and two more touchdown passes. He also rushed for 56 yards in that game, including that 33-yard run that I came into the show with on that crucial fourth and one during what turned out to be a 91-yard game-winning drive that ended with his touchdown pass to Terry McClureen with two seconds left in the game. His style is perfect for a backup to Jaden Daniels. They don't have to change a thing if he has to play. He's great in the locker room.

He's great in the quarterback room. I didn't think that he would have a chance to start anywhere. I know some people thought there might be a chance in Vegas. I thought there was a chance he might go to Vegas and try to compete for a job. This was before they traded for Gino Smith. And I thought there might be a chance for a comparable or maybe slightly better backup opportunity where maybe the chances of him getting some starts would be higher. But, you know, I mentioned on yesterday's show there are going to be several one-year deals

with their own guys from last year who are currently free agents. And I am very glad that Mariotta is one of them. I still think the biggest risk for Jaden is health. You know, I don't see him regressing in any part of his game, but he's been banged up a few times in his career, you know, both in college at LSU and last year as well. It's possible that Jaden will turn out to be a quarterback that misses a game every once in a while or comes out of a game every once in a while

like he did against Carolina. and I think, you know, the concerns over that are somewhat alleviated with Marcus Mariotta as the backup. Now, do I think Marcus Marietta as a six, seven, eight game starter would be problematic? I don't know. As a 17 game starter? Yes, I don't think you're going to win 12 games. I don't think you're going to win eight games with Marcus Marioosa starting 17 games. But, you know, he's only 31 years old.

He's played some good football at times during his career. I just think here over the last few years of his career, it's become more apparent that he's just a very high-end backup and an occasional starting quarterback. He's the perfect backup for Jaden Daniels, and he's such a good guy and really a very well-liked in high. highly respected teammate. I am happy that he is back. There was more news today with Washington. They signed Eddie Goldman. Eddie Goldman played in Atlanta this past year. Defensive tackle,

nose tackle, really. But he's remembered much more, I would think, from the majority of you, by the majority of you, for his time in Chicago with the Bears. I liked Eddie Goldman when he was playing in Chicago. There were some years there where I thought he was a really good player. He's local. He grew up in the area, played at Friendship Collegiate in D.C., went to Florida State. He was a second round pick, early second round pick by the Bears in 2015. He was actually the pick taken right after Washington selected Preston Smith in that 2015 draft. I remember Eddie Goldman and being considered in that draft is a guy that could go in the first round. He's 6-3-325.

Big dude played mostly nose tackle in Atlantis 3-4 last year, played mostly nose in Chicago as well. He's a run-stopper. You know, that's what he does best. If you're going to identify something that he does at a higher level, it's run-stopping more than pass-rushing. I think what's become clear about, you know, Adam Peters, Dan Quinn, and company is that they do recognize their run-stopping deficiency from last year. The signings of Kinlau and Goldman don't solve the problem, but they improve, I'm sure they believe, their run defense.

That's the, you know, I think the result of these two signings. winnings, Kinlawn Goldman, is that you have to believe that they're trying to improve their run defense. That's the big takeaway. Will they do it? Will they solve the problem? I don't think the two of them will solve the problem by themselves. No. I mean, Goldman's getting a one-year deal.

Kinlaw, they've got greater faith in his ability to really help solve that problem, given the contract he got. I mean, that's still even today a few days after the fact, a bit jaw dropping. Goldman, by the way, retired a few years ago. He took the COVID year opt out and did not play in 2020. And then he didn't play in 2021 or 2022. He retired. And then when he came back last year out of retirement, he had already before his retirement been signed by Atlanta. But he played in all 17 games for the first.

Falcons last year, started in 10 of them. Atlanta really struggled much of the year on defense, then improved as the season went along and towards the end of the year. I don't see Goldman as a defensive end. Like I see Kinlaw. I see Kinlaw as a possible DN. You know, I mentioned to Tommy yesterday. They clearly have a vision for Javan Kinlaw. You know, and I would say that they've probably got a vision more for Javon Kinlaw based on the contract. Eddie Goldman. But with Kinlaw, you know, there's been a lot of defensive end play. I think that you may see him as a bigger, you know, edge run stopper. I could also see Kinlaw and Goldman as nose tackles when they go to that five-man front that they went to occasionally last year. Remember when they would go

with 3D tackles, whether it was Payne Allen and Newton or maybe Sheldon Day mixed in there at some point, And they played Louvo on the outside as kind of a stand-up three-four linebacker, but really it was more of a five-man front. And then the other end might be Dorrance Armstrong or Fowler Jr., whoever they had in the game. But Goldman could certainly be a part of the detackle rotation and be a nose at times in that five-man or, you know, three-four alignment. Let's just hope that his desire for football after taking two years off and not playing the COVID year was reignited. You know, that his passion, his desire for the game was reignited last year. He played in all 17 games and didn't have that bad of a year in Atlanta as a run stopper. But they're adding size, man.

That's the takeaway here early in free agency with Ken Lawn Goldman. They become the two biggest dudes along with Derrano. pain on defense overall. All right. What else from today? Benjamin St. Juice leaving, heading to the Chargers on a one-year deal. Michael Walker, who played well at times on special teams, actually played very well at times on special teams. Number 32, he had a couple of really big hits in games.

He is leaving for Arizona. Yeah. So that is, well, here's some news. Actually, some breaking news as I am recording this. Washington is signing Jonathan Jones, the longtime Patriots Corner. He's coming here on a one-year deal. He's got to be in his 30s at this point, maybe mid-30s. He's been around for a while.

Let me look this up. Jonathan Jones. I mean, it's fast, speedy corner for the Patriots. I don't think he's played anywhere else. Oh, okay, he's not in his mid-30s. He's 31 now. Nine years, though, with the Patriots. Nine years.

He's not a big dude, 5-9-180. I'm going to guess that he's played both positions outside and in the slot, but maybe they'll like him more in the slot. I don't know if this is competition, or an alternative to Noah I. I need more research on that to see how much, because I think he's been a versatile corner. I know this, the dude can fly.

Jonathan Jones has always been able to run. You know, he has checked the likes of, in big games, you know, the likes of guys like Tyree Kill for the Patriots, because he's played in a bunch of big games during his career in New England. but he legit speed. Let me just see if they have the speed. I mean, this would have been now nine years ago. Yeah, he was sub-4-4-4-3 guy coming out a long time ago.

But yeah, so that is, that's the activity on the team on Washington. As of now, as of the recording. Remember, today is actually the beginning of free agency. You know, the legal tampering period started Monday. 4 p.m. this afternoon was the beginning of the trades and the signings becoming official. So it's now official that Laramie Tunsell has been traded to Washington. It's now official that Debo Samuel is a Washington commander. It's now official that Javon Kinlaw is a Washington commander.

I still don't know why they do the legal tampering. I'm sure they have a good reason for it. I don't think I, maybe I just am forgetting the reason for two days of legal tampering. I mean, the legal tampering period really begins even before. The illegal tampering period begins long before the legal tampering period begins. And then we get the beginning of free agency today. But anyway, big news from around the league today, DeMarcus Lawrence is leaving Dallas to go to Seattle.

Tank Lawrence leaving the Cowboys, three-year deal, $42 million, $18 guaranteed. Remember, he's coming off an injury that had a miss much of the 2024 season. Look, I think he's been a very good player in this league. And I know a lot of you were thinking he'd be perfect for Washington. I thought he was going to stick in Dallas, but he heads out to Seattle to play for the Seahawks. Officially Cooper Cup released by the Rams, officially Aaron Rogers released by the Jets.

So now we'll see whether he lands in Pittsburgh or New York with the Giants or potentially Minnesota. People are saying, Evan Ingram signs with Denver. I think that was a guy that some of you were thinking about. Darius Slay, who was released by the Eagles over the weekend, I think, signs with the Steelers for one year. So those are kind of the headlines from today. The Cowboys actually traded for Kenneth Murray, the linebacker, who was in Tennessee.

right? That's where Kenneth Murray's been, Tennessee, because I think Murray started his career with the Chargers, but then was in Tennessee maybe last year and the year before. So the Cowboys add Kenneth Murray. All right, that's kind of the big news of the day. No big quarterback news, not since yesterday, Daniel Jones, signing in Indianapolis. The fate of Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson are being,

watched closely. And, you know, Kirk Cousins is still a possibility. A lot of reporting today that Cleveland and potentially even the giants are interested in trading for Kirk. But I think the Falcons are probably going to stick with him for a while to try to get the highest price possible. The problem is they've got to pay 10 million bucks, I think, in a few days if he's still on the roster. I want to mention something real quickly. I am not going to be. I am not going to be doing a podcast tomorrow. I have to take care of something personally, but it's possible. I'll be back in time to do a show late tomorrow, but if not, I'll definitely be back on Friday and we'll get caught up on what was missed. All right, let's get to Barry's Verluga next, after these words from a few

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with no money down, no payments, and no interest for two full years. Schedule your fast, free, in-home estimate right now at 86690 Nation or head to windonation.com. Mention my name, they'll schedule that in-home estimate for when it's convenient for you. They'll be in and out of your home in an hour or less. You'll find out actually which windows are older and inefficient and need to be replaced. WindowNation.com or 86690 Nation. All right Joining me right now is Barry's Verluga from the Washington Post at Barry S-V-R-L-U-G-A on X on Twitter. Love having Barry on the show. We have so many things to talk about, and I don't know if we'll get to all of them,

but I just saw that you tweeted out something that just, you know, made me sad and also made me wonder very much. and that is that tonight in the ACC tournament, the ACC tournament, Cal versus Stanford, followed by Syracuse versus SMU. This used to be such a big week, such an important week for people like you and me. I mean, how did we get to this point? I mean, that's a book more than a podcast interview, right? Like, it's kind of crazy. And I mean, I used to, as you used to, look forward to the ACC tournament almost as, you know, like a major pillar of sports calendar.

Right. Those Friday quarterfinals from noon until essentially midnight, four games that when there was only one playing game, I mean, we will sound like the cranky old men in part because we are the cranky old men. and we're wistful for things that we kind of grew up with and rivalries that were really meaningful, but you can't help but be smacked in the face when, you know, looking at a schedule, a night session in Charlotte where Cal and Stanford are somehow playing on a Wednesday night,

it just is, you know, SMU is playing Syracuse. Like, it's not Carolina versus Wake and State versus Maryland, and Georgia Tech versus Duke, like things that have mattered for a long, long time. It takes an adjustment to all of this. And I admit to, you know, even a decade after, or more than a decade after Maryland left the ACC for the Big Ten,

it's like I admit to not having fully made the adjustment and all the new stuff just seems to be piling on. NC State didn't even make the ACC tournament. How awful is that for their fan base? I mean, seriously. it got their coach changed, which they probably wanted to do a year ago, except that they, they, you know, they went to the final four, and won an ACC title at downtown and downtown Washington, which was kind of a cool moment, but Kevin Keith was not the long-term solution there. But think of the phrase you just said, Kevin, like, they didn't even make the ACC tournament.

Like, when did that become a thing? Like this year, right? year. Yeah, exactly. There's a world in which you don't even qualify for your conference tournament. And I would also say, like, the conference tournament starting, the big-time conference tournament starting on a Tuesday still seems out of whack to me. I get that you want the Saturday night final because that's, it's kind of cool.

You get to, you know, enjoy the championship if your team wins it and then have selection Sunday the following day, whereas the old 1 p.m. ACC final on a Sunday afternoon, you know, you barely got to celebrate the title and the selection show was on a couple hours later and you figured out where you were going. So I get all that. It just, as a cranky college traditionalist, it's still, I still have, I like turning on the games and watching the competition. I still have a little bit of unease with everything that's changed. Yeah, by the way, the answer is a book. But it's also very simple.

It's one word, football. That's why we're here, you know, all of these years later. Has nothing to do with this week of basketball. It has everything to do with what happens in the fall. And it has to do with the original seismic plates that shifted John Swofford and the ACC in 2003 going after exactly what you said, football, trying to pursue Miami originally and get it into a conference. So, yeah, I mean, you know, you have to unspool all of that.

And, you know, they ended up originally with a school that they hadn't pursued Virginia Tech before they could finally reel in Syracuse and Boston College and get the footprint, the geographic footprint that the ACC wanted. It's ironic all these years later, more than two decades later, that the conference that started all the expansion, which was going to happen at some point. It's not really the ACC's fault, but the conference that started it

is the one that's hanging on by a thread because it no longer has real football power. It doesn't have the television deals that the Big Ten and the SEC do. And it's possible that if we have this conversation in five years, the Atlantic Coast Conference, and certainly in 10 years, the Atlantic Coast Conference doesn't exist in any form that we would recognize. nice. But you're right about football. That's the driving part of all of this, which is tough for, you know, I consider myself a college basketball person before a college basketball,

I mean, before a college football person, it's just a difficult world to live in. You and I have known each other for a while now, and I know how passionate you have been about Duke basketball and ACC basketball, and you know how passionate I've been about Maryland basketball. But I'll tell you, Barry, the ACC part of me, I think is gone. I mean, for so many of those years, you know, early on in the Big Ten, I hated it. I yearned for the old days, wanted to be back into the ACC, but I look at the ACC now, and I'm like, I don't want to be a part of that.

And look, not that I think Maryland's, you know, administration and school president at the time and board of directors at the time had this vision of where college sports was headed, meaning that the ACC would turn into what it's turned into. But, man, I mean, this is a much better position for Maryland to be in, being in the Big Ten, you know, here in 2025. I don't think there's any doubt. I mean, they're in the conference with more geographic span. They're in the conference with much more football money. They're in the conference with much more stability.

I mean, we could argue whether Maryland football could ever really. you know, sees a spot among the top teams, top programs in the Big Ten. But for a basketball first school, that doesn't matter as much. And Kevin Willard in his third year, you know, finished second in the Big Ten.

He did a good job. The program seems on solid footing, you know, in a sport that the roster and everything changes from year to year. He really hit this year. And that's great for Maryland. I don't have any doubt

that it's a better spot right now for that school at this time. I would say about the ACC, you know, what has happened over the last five to ten years and even, you know, continuing this year, you lose Mike Shoshchewski, you lose Roy William. And you lose Tony Bennett at the beginning of this year. Those are all- Even Bayheim. So there's four national championship winning coaches that have gone. Now you're going to lose Leonard Hamilton, who had run a pretty scrappy program. I'm at Florida State, Jim Laronaga, and took his team at Miami to the final four.

He leaves in the middle of this year. I can't. I mean, I'm kind of a fan of the sport, not as maybe like I used to be, but like am a list of the ACC teams and have me name the coaches. I'm not going to get half of them. And that's in a sport that is defined more by the coaches because they're the people who stay. The whole thing, there's instability. at the conference level because of their TV deal, which could be disintegrating in

2013, I believe it is. But there's also instability in each individual program because, you know, while some successors have been named, you know, John Shire's got it together at Duke, there's questions about Hubert Davis at North Carolina. Like, it's so hard, the UVA doesn't know who their coach is going to be. it's so hard to follow these legends and icons that those programs have to get back on their feet and find the people that are going to coach them

not for the next two or three years, but for the next 10 or 15 years, and the whole thing is going to feel kind of unstable until they do. All right. You follow Maryland closely. You write about Maryland occasionally. How many more wins do they have in them

and then tell me where they come from? Well, so I think, think, you know, I think Michigan State is a tough out in the Big Ten championship game, but I would like to see them get to the Big Ten championship game. I would like to see postseason success that honestly, Kevin hasn't been there since Gary Williams was here because Mark Turgeon's one one to the Sweet 16 was with that Diamondstone team that just got absolutely annihilated by Kansas. I think that was on a Thursday night. It almost felt like they weren't even in the Sweet 16

because that game was so not competitive. I think the starting five is good enough for them to win on any night, but it's hard also because they're so thin that if there's a little bit of foul trouble or knock on wood, someone got hurt, then they become a little bit easier out. But I think there's so much to like because it's not just that the starting five it's solid. It's like on a given night, any one of those five guys can be

the guy. They've all led the team in scoring. Derek Queen is obviously the premier talent. But, you know, I think Gillespie is a key player. I think the second weekend is the target for them. I think they've got

the stuff to get through, you know, they'll be a three or a four seed, most likely as long as they don't lose on Friday in the Big Ten tournament. And I just think it would be so great for this fan base to get a taste of what you knew from back when and what, you know, hopefully can be Maryland on a regular basis, not getting to the Sweet 16 every year, but not having it be such a, you know, so long in between trips there. You know, I was thinking about this the other day,

and I think you'll appreciate this, and I bet you've thought about it as well. The last time, you know, Maryland was, look, they had some very good regular seasons and very lofty rankings during Turgeon's run. I mean, they were ranked as high as number two. They were top five, top ten, you know, periodically during the run, but they didn't have the March success, as you just mentioned. So it's really been since Gary was here. And by the way, Gary's last Sweet 16 came all the way back in the year after

the national championship game, the national championship win, which was the 2002-2003 season when they lost to Michigan State in the Sweet 16, Blake had an open look from three, deep three, to put him into the elite eight and he missed it. It was a big deal back then, Maryland basketball. You could argue in any given year, you know, during the 80s, 90s, 2000s, that after the skins, Maryland basketball was potentially the number two story, sports story in town. Our city has changed completely. It's not that anymore.

So I'm curious as to what you think it could be if they make a big run. Well, I mean, just to kind of tack on to that, I mean, I came here in 2003 to cover Maryland basketball and then just exclusively Maryland basketball because it did feel like the second biggest thing in town. We didn't have, you know, click data to the extent that we do now that we do now that we know exactly how many people are clicking on each story and how long they're spending there. But the evidence then, you know, there was no baseball team. There was no Alasovetchin. The Wizards were the Wizards. And it just, it was a big, big deal. I think it can't get to

the number two thing in Washington, D.C. again, I just, I think logistic, I don't think college sports are positioned that way or college basketball is positioned that way. You don't have Wanda Dixon and Steve Blake here for four years at a time. I think that attachment matters. And I'm not trying to say, you know, they should go back the way it was. It's just it's probably not something you can capture again. But I think it should be like if it were rolling like Gary had it rolling, which is not reaching the Sweet 16 every year, but having the potential to be in the mix

and not having, you know, swoons where you're missing the tournament. I mean, I used to know it off the top of my head, but he made something like, let's see, I think it's like 10 or 11 straight tournament, something like that. I think it was 11, yeah. Yeah, so, and that means you're in the mix. That means your conference games matter. That means that, like, you're worth talking about and thinking about how does this play, how do they play, and who does this player remind me of from the past and all that stuff.

And I think they lost that for a little bit. I think, while you are right to have moved beyond the ACC days, I think there was a real dip in interest in that transition period. Maybe that's over, and maybe Kevin can really take advantage of where he is in a better conference with opposing programs that are more familiar by the season, and really become a factor in – if there are a factor in – the Big Ten, if they are competing for that regular season and tournament title every year, then they're going to be relevant because that means you're relevant nationally.

Like you're up there nationally if you're winning that conference because it's so brutal. Yeah, I agree with almost everything you said there. I mean, as much as I would love to see Maryland become what they were at one point, basketball-wise, you know, in terms of their stature in this market, it's just different. You identified a lot of the reasons. It's different. We're just much more of a pro sports town than we were when lefty was here, when Gary was here. You know, the sport itself has become more of a one month, you know, on the calendar sport. March is the month.

The NFL masks, you know, November, December, January, February. Even this week with NFL free agency, it's completely different than the way it used to be with conference championship games. But yeah, I do think that because. of, you know, this area's incredible basketball foundation that, you know, a big Maryland season or a big Maryland March run will get consumed at a very high level. But it's different, no doubt, than it used to be. All right, I do want to ask you about Duke. Duke's number one in the country, they have the number one player in the country in Cooper Flag. You pay a lot attention to your alma mater's basketball team. Some people have said, Barry, this is one of the

best Duke teams ever. What do you think? You know, it's hard for me to keep all the one and done teams separate in my mind. I mean, the team that matches this team for Buzz and honestly probably exceeded it was the Zion Williamson team that ended up losing to Michigan State in the regional final at Capital One Arena. You know, had R.J. Barrett. But, you know, is this, is Cooper flag busier or better than Powell O'Ancherro? Probably, yeah, I think so. I don't think, and this is, I think, both old man bias, but also true.

Like, this team didn't face a conference schedule, like, you know, say the 91 and 92, or 2001. I think the conversation about the best Duke team. are the 1992 team that won the title for the second straight year in Leitner's senior year. And then the 2001 team that was Shane Badié's senior year, a team that included Jay Williams and Mike Dunleavy and Carlos Boozer, like just really, really stud teams. This team is good. I just don't think the ACC is what it was, as we've discussed.

and, you know, will they be favored in every game they play before they get to the final four? Sure, could they lose any of those games? Yeah, they absolutely could. I think Flag is really fun to watch. And I'm not, you know, they beat Auburn early in the season, and I know Auburn, you know, just lost to Alabama as well, but that's a really, really, really good team. And those teams in the SEC are far better tested than an ACC team, a team that ran for the ACC. at whatever it was, 19 and 1.

I just think that, you know, I think Duke will be a one seat. I think they'll play in Raleigh to get to Newark. And then, I don't know, man, winning a national title with all those freshmen. When there are some real men on Auburn in Alabama and Tennessee, I think that's a tough task. I didn't call you to just talk about college basketball, but that's what often happens when I have you on, because we both love it, and this is the time of the year,

where other people are paying attention to it. But just one last one. Have you seen that documentary on the 91 and 92 back-to-back championship teams? Duke teams? I haven't saving it for like a long flight or something. I have not watched it. Yeah, no. I mean, those, you know, that's when I was in school.

And those are, I mean, you know, I know those players. I know I knew a lot of them as people. It's right at my wheelhouse, but I want to give it my full attention. Well, when you get to it, I think you're going to really enjoy it. I watched it recently, and it was a reminder, Barry, for me, of how great Christian Leitner was. And I think I was telling one of my sons, because he watched it as well. And I said he was one of the greatest college basketball players of all time. He is easily a top five all-time ACC player.

For me, David Thompson's number one. He's the greatest college basketball player I've ever watched in my lifetime of watching college basketball. but after Thompson, Leitner's in that conversation with Ralph and with Duncan and with bias. He was just incredible and probably one of the great competitors in college basketball history. Yeah, and I think when you get into these conversations and you're splitting hairs between a Duncan and, you know, think of the players who didn't mention Michael Jordan, you know, James Worthy, Phil Ford, like, I mean, we could go, you know, Tyler Hansborough is somewhere in that conversation, even though I don't, yeah. You know, I mean, just by what he did, he did similar things that Leitner did in terms of winning.

So when you're getting into these conversations, you have to get down to splitting hairs. And when you're splitting hairs, a performance like Leitner had against, sorry, I have a helicopter going over my house. Kentucky. A performance like Leitner had against Kentucky, you know, 10 of 10 from the floor, 10 of 10 from the line, take, you know, cruise. creating the most iconic play in college basketball history, I guess you could say arguably, but it's the one they show. I think that's a difference maker. He scored 31 that night, and that's one of the best college basketball games that's ever been played

similarly to David Thompson against Tom McMillan and Maryland in the ACC final in 1974. All of that stuff matters, but there's such fun conversations to have. All right, let's switch this subject real quickly. How big is this Ovechkin story in the history of non-game stories? All right, I did this on radio recently. In terms of, you know, not world championships, World Series, Stanley Cup, three Super Bowls, where will this story him breaking Gretzky's record rank all time?

It's got to be right up there. And I think, you know, I'm realistic enough, even though I've followed his whole career and I've been around the caps a lot and I enjoy hockey. I understand where hockey's ranking is in the hierarchy of American sports. So I think, you know, it probably takes a notch down because it's just not the most popular sport in this country. But if you think about who Wayne Gretzky is and what he represents and you're not talking about Ovechkin passing him as like the greatest player ever, because they're completely different, and Gretzky played center, and if you took all of Gretzky's goals away from his points total,

he would still lead the NHL all-time in points, which is just a staggering, staggering thing. But you're talking about a record that I think if you asked NHL people in 2005, when Alex H. Fetkin began his career, will anybody ever score more than 894 goals, they would have said no, because the game is different now. It is harder to score goals. Goalies are better.

They're more athletic. They're bigger. The equipment is different. Games are not, you know, six to five and five to four. They're four to three and three to two. That makes it harder. And this guy has just done it.

He did it from the first night he played. He scored two goals in his debut in the fall of 2005. He essentially, while he has slowed at times, has never stopped. And here he is at 39 years old, missing 16 games with a broken leg in the middle of the season on essentially a 55-gold pace. There's so much to like about this story. Gretzky's going to be along for the ride, the last, you know, whatever it's going to be, whenever he's within five goals or something.

and it'll put a focus on the sport of hockey and the Washington Capitals who are an outstanding best in the league team right now as their all-time player takes on an iconic record. I just think it's just a perfect marrying up of storylines as we had at the end of the regular season. You know, you and I have had conversations over the years, and I remember one specifically several years ago

where we just said, look, we've gotten to the point where either he sells the team or somehow they luck into a great quarterback. That's the only way things can change and that they could potentially win. Well, in the last 18 months now, 19, 20 months, both things have happened. I mean, what an at, think about just two years ago. I know two years ago we had a sense that the sale was going to go through and it was looking positive. but the football team is one, you know, it was never not number one, but what are your thoughts on Jaden Daniels, the organization, and where this thing is headed?

It was never not number one, Kevin, because we both acknowledge that the NFL is king, but I would say it was certainly not number one in terms of like vibes around it or fans' good feelings about it. It was like, you know, it was annual wallowing in disqualowing. function and disappointment. And so the flip of that, to me, is the biggest part of it. Like, we've always been interested in the offseason and what do they have to address and who are they going to lock up and what do they go for in the draft and do they make a trade and who do they sign? And is anybody willing to sign here? Like, that's always part of the conversation. But you couldn't have possibly, I mean, when was the last modern day NFL offseason that this

fan base went into with this amount of anticipation? like they made it to the NFC championship game in their superstar rookie quarterback's first year. That was a joyful ride, but also reset expectations. Like it will never be again like it was this year because this year was the house money year. This year was the unexpected year. I'm not saying you're going to get to training camp and be like, these guys are favored to go to the NFC championship game and then push through the Super Bowl this year. it doesn't necessarily happen in a straight line.

But there's real interest and optimism and reasonable expectations that like a hundred things don't have to fall in place and go right for them to have a really good competitive season next year. I mean, another thing we've talked about in the past is how they never played from ahead. They never were like, okay, we're six and two, and now we're 10 and 3, and we're battling atop the division. I think that's the kind of expectation that has changed now because they can get out in front of the season.

They can be good from start to finish. It doesn't mean they're better than the Eagles. The roster is better than the Eagles right now. But I think because the owner and the quarterback are who they are, the tenor and feeling around the team and the town is the thing that has really, really changed. Thanks for doing this, as always. Hope you're well. We can talk golf and baseball next time. Although, do you have a pick for the players?

You know, I haven't put my pick in yet, so I'm not going to say anything. I will say, I think a sneaky guy who's playing well as Michael Kim. I don't know if he's going to win an event like this, but he's really, really, really playing well. And, you know, I don't know what Sam said, but it's hard to pick against Scotty, so I wouldn't stray too far from there. is coming up next. My sneaky pick is Jason Day. I don't even know how sneaky it is. He's been playing better, and he's obviously played well there

before. Hope you're well. Enjoy the college hoops. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Perry. Thanks, Kevin. Yep, anytime. Steve Sands next, after these words from a few of our sponsors. So most of us wear underwear every day, but when was the last time

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Jumping on with me right now is my good friend Steve Sands, who is joining me right now from right behind the famous 17th hole at Sawgrass. You're standing behind the tee? Do you want to get up and hit a few shots? No, but I'd like to know if you had a gap wedge peg in the ground on Sunday, a little after 6 p.m. with a one-shot lead, Kevin, what would you do with that wedge in that particular scenario this Sunday? Well, first of all, I got to know that the wedge is the gap wedge is the right club. What's the distance. Well, I mean, it's for me and you, it's probably be a nine for these guys. It depends on the, it depends on the wind. Oh, my God. It wouldn't be more, it wouldn't be more than a nine. My heart would be pounding, and I'm pretty sure the shanks would enter into the conversation. I hate

even saying that word, by the way. It's a really bad word to even say. That's a great spot. Do you know, I mean, I think everybody that loves golf loves the 17th green and that shot at the players' championship. I mean, where do you, where do the players rank that hole? Like, do they enjoy it as much as fans enjoy watching it? Absolutely. They love it. And I think it's the most famous hole in golf. I don't think it's the best hole in golf.

I don't think it's the best part three in the world. But I do think it's the most famous. And it just provides amazing drama. And, you know, as our good friend Tony Corny Kornado, I like to say, it's a TV show, Kevin. And what's better than watching that hole and watching these guys? Their gyrations, the conversations with the caddy, the wincing, the nerves, the energy. I mean, it all comes down on the line. Some people have said it'd be better if it was the eighth hole, not the 17th.

But I think the great, great, great majority of people will tell you that they absolutely love it. It's a signature hole on this golf course, and I think literally the most famous Part 3 on the planet. So you think it's more famous if we're doing a top five rankings of the most famous holes in golf, and maybe we just narrow it down to the famous part 3s. It's more famous than 12 at Augusta? Yes, because of the look of it, the visual, the island green. The stature of the event is the 51st players. It's grown.

It's not a major. Nobody's calling it a major, but it's right there with the four. As long as resumes, when you say Fred Couples won the 92 Masters, you also say you won two players. You know, it's kind of like that thing. I think the whole is so visually intimidating and so visually beautiful that I think 12 at Augusta, considering it's the Masters, it's obviously bigger than the players,

but I don't think there's anything more famous as far as part 3 is in the world than 17 here at Sogrette. It's just everyone knows, if you showed 100 people, the whole, and you showed 100 people the 12th hole at Augusta, I think more people would say 17 at Sogrest,

17 of the players, they would say that more than they would say 12. I think that's probably right, although I think if you were showing, I think if you were showing a shot of 16 at the stadium course, TPC Scottsdale, that people would recognize that one too. Yep, I think they would, but the Island Green is so famous in this sport and has become so famous in all of sports that is just so recognizable.

Again, big difference between being the best and the most famous. Sure. My argument has always been that Tom Brady is the winningest quarterback, but Joe Montana is the greatest quarterback. There's a difference between winningest and greatest. And I think that in this case, 12 Augusta, or you'd rather make it two there because it's Sunday at the Masters. But 17 at Sawgrass is just so, it's such a visual, like, iconic thing in golf

that I don't think there's any 17 at the road hole at say to Andrews 16 at Scottsdale 12 at Augusta you know 13 at Augusta you know for a par 5 but for par 3 to me it's this one right here this thing is just so cool it's awesome all right will jaden daniels ever surpass either joe montana or tom brady on your two greatest and winningest lists No, but I do think he's going to win multiple Super Bowl titles. I think I like the Tunsel move, although I agree with you when you were talking to Tommy yesterday. I don't think he's Trent Williams, but I do think Tommy is more correct than you are that Tunsel's on his way to perhaps being a Hall of Fame player. Well, that's not. I agreed with he might be on the way to being a Hall of Fame player, that he could certainly

end up being in the Hall of Fame. Tommy said he was a Hall of Fame player. That's ridiculous. I agree. Trent Williams. Trent Williams is a Hall of Fame player. Consul perhaps is on his way to being one. I think sometimes our fans sleep on how great Trent Williams is. Absolutely. Because, you know, the truth is when he was here, he was great, but he didn't make one first-team all-pro. He made a couple of seconds. team all pros, I think. But, you know, it's not inconceivable, because he's not done yet, that he will go down as a top five left tackle of all time. Without question. Yeah, without question. Who was the great, remind me, I forget, golly, I'm getting old. Who was the great

offensive linemen for the Browns all those years when they were so bad? Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas, okay? If you take Joe Thomas, okay, and put him in a conversation with, you know, meathead sports guys like me and you, you would not mention Joe Thomas because he was never on a good team, always anonymous, never on Sunday night football, almost rarely on Monday night football, have to be once a week on Thursday night football. But for the most part, one o'clock regional games you never saw Joe Thomas play. When Trent Williams was with us, well, I mean, we suck.

and he was a great player on a lousy team. All of a sudden he goes to San Francisco, plays the exact same level of football. But because the Niners were so great, and he's been on national TV and in playoff games and multiple Super Bowls, all of a sudden people go, oh, man, that Trail Williams is unreal.

Well, he was unreal with us. But I mean, go get Joe Jacoby. If Joe Kobe and Russ Grim were on the skin the last 10 years, as opposed to the 10 years that they were, were on them, would they be Joe Jacoby and Rush Graham? Probably not. It still hasn't helped Jake. He should be in the Hall of Fame. You and I both. It's an outrage. I mean, it's ridiculous. Here's a question for you, because this often comes up when we're talking about, you know,

when Jake gets dropped into the conversation, Trent Williams, who's the greatest left tackle in franchise history? Because we've had a lot of really good left tackles. Well, yeah. I think if it was a longer window, it would have been, did Jim Lachay pay left or right? I'm sorry? Wait both, right? No, Jim Lachay played left to right. Oh, no, no, he was left. No, he was a left tack. He was left.

Yeah. Okay. So if it was a longer runway, Lachet could have been. Agreed. For me, you know, and I mean, Trent Williams is a better player than Joe Jukov. I think Trent Williams are first ballot Hall of Fame player. I think Joe Covee is a Hall of Fame, but not first ballot. And I would say Joe Jacoby because of his fame, his success, that line was so good, that team was so good, and he was an integral part of it, and I'll never forget.

This is why he belongs in the Hall of Fame. It's exactly why he belongs in the Hall of Fame. I ran into Lawrence Taylor one time, and I was talking to him. Where are you from, kid? That kind of stuff. And I said, D.C., goes, oh, you don't like me. I said, no, no, no, no, I hated you. But you're a hell of a player.

And I said, question for you. The Eagles, the Skins, the Cowboys, and a little bit of the early part of his career, the Cardinals. Who's the best tackle you went against? He goes, Joe Chokeblinck. And I'm like, really? I go, are you saying it because I'm from D.C.? No, no, no.

He goes, at 66 to play. He said he gave me a very, very difficult time. He goes, I gave him a difficult time. But he also gave me a very difficult time. So, to me, Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White and maybe Ronnie Lott are the three best defensive players I can think of in our lifetime. And I'm not going back to buttgift and all that stuff, but in our lifetime, in our fanhood. And when you have Lawrence Taylor saying that about Joe Jacoby, as much as I think Trent Williams is better, but he didn't do it mostly for us. And much as I think Jim Lachey perhaps could have been better than Joe, if it was a longer stint in Washington,

I'll take 66. Yeah, so for me, let me just mention, Lawrence Taylor is not only the greatest defensive player of my lifetime. I think he might be the greatest football player of my lifetime. I think he and John Elway are the two best football players in our lifetime.

Well, you had Montana ahead of Elway. I think Montana's a better quarterback. Okay. I think John Elway, like Taylor, I think John Elway is the best football player I've ever seen on the offensive side of the game. I think Lawrence Taylor is the best football player I've ever seen on the defensive side. You and I feel the same way about Elway.

Elway was my number one, number one for a long, long time. But, you know, and I'm not separating winning and greatest, but I understand the separation, trust me. But I think Brady is there for me, and I think Mahomes is gaining very quickly. but Elway, and I've always been a massive Marino guy too. But Lawrence Taylor, for me in my lifetime of NFL football watching is the greatest player I've ever watched. And by the way, 100% right about Lechay.

I think I would say that Jim Lechay is the most talented left tackle and offensive lineman in Skins history with Trent Williams right there. But I would go Jacoby one too. because the truth is about Trent. Trent, you could argue was a Hall of Famer when he got traded to San Francisco, but it was borderline. And San Francisco cemented it. Jake had a, I mean, we believe, and we're not, you know, we're certainly biased when it comes to this conversation. But we believe that we watched a Hall of Fame left tackle career start to finish in Washington. 100%.

Yeah. 100%. 66 belongs in the Hall of Fame, and I'm not being biased here. Just back. And by the way, so does 30. Brian Mitchell belongs in the Hall of Fame as well. You don't have to be great at one position. You can be really, really good at multiple positions and have that many yards, those many yards,

and that big of an impact, to me, Brian Mitchell should get more votes than he does, and Joe Chicoe belongs in there 10 years ago. Brian's case has always been a complicated one for me, because I think you're really, Right. I think a lot of people, look, he would go in as a returner. He would not go in as a running back or anything like that. But Brian was just such a big-time clutch performer, not only here, but also in Philadelphia. The thing is, is that the numbers, the actual aggregate yardage, that measures up. but his average yards per return in his career years, you know, it's not,

Devin Hester to me was a no-brainer, game-changing player that was an obvious Hall of Famer. I don't think Brian was ever in Devin Hester's class. No, I agree. I agree, but there are degrees of greatness. You know, I don't think Joe Jacoby's degree. greatest left tackle in the history of the game. But he belongs in the Hall of Fame. I think there degrees of greatness. I think the word great gets thrown out too often. However, I do think that

Brian Mitchell was great at a single skill, meaning a return man, and other things, but mainly a return man, but he wasn't as great as Devon Hester. But like, let me ask you this, Kevin, because we're on this, David. And I'm being serious. What's the Hall of Fame going to do with Justin Tucker? What are they going to do? Well, I forget what percentage. He's a first ballot. He's a first ballot Hall of Fame kicker. I don't know that he's a, no kicker's ever been first ballot, right?

I mean, Vinutary didn't get it, right? No, no, no, no, not first ballot, but that guy. No, Hall of Fame kicker. Hall of Fame kicker. But what, I don't know what percentage of the Hall of Fame football vote deals with character. And at this, at this point, we're still dealing with just allegations, even though they are overwhelming in scope like they were with Deshawn Watson. But I don't know, I'm saying that I actually don't know where character comes in as part of the Hall of Fame football.

Yeah, no, neither do I. But my point of him is, obviously you've got all the craziness going all with him, and they're just allegations. Nobody's saying that he's guilty just yet. However, when you put in the totality of his entire body of work, I think he's a better kicker overall than Adam Vinny. I agree. I agree. I was the more clutch kicker because many never missed a kick. He never missed a kick in his life.

That meant it. And it was incredible. So the degrees of greatness apply in that particular regard. And then you add in this stuff off the field, and I have no idea what's going to happen to Justin Tucker, but he's a Hall of Fame kicker for sure. So if you go back to the Jacoby conversation, he's a Hall of Fame tackle, put him in for God's sake. It's ridiculous that he's not in.

It's absurd. I think actually what's going to be more interesting is how does Baltimore handle this? You know, like they need a kicker, and these things probably aren't going to, you know, kind of get figured out legally until after the, you know, training camp begins and maybe even the season begins. So what do you do? And unfortunately for Baltimore, they've had a little bit of experience with this. Not a great of player, but the Ray Rice situation, what do you do? I mean, jeez.

Right. Yikes, yikes. Yikes. All right. By the way, before we talk golf, come on, Ovetche. Let's get that record at home, Kevin. Let's get that record at home. Yeah, I think that that would be cool. I mean, I've had a lot of people on over the last month or so,

and I had Ted on, actually, when we talked about this a little bit. I heard, I heard the whole thing. I was as shocked as anybody to hear it. But I heard the whole thing. I love it. But I wonder how it was. be received in certain road venues. Like they've got to play at Boston. They've got to play in New York a couple of times. They've got to play in Pittsburgh in the season finale.

You know, and I compared this, and you may have heard me compare this to, what if Emmett Smith had broken the, you know, Walter Payton's record at FedEx Field in 2002? I can tell you exactly what had happened there. But I won't say hockey is a little different. And I think, did you happen to stay up late on Tuesday night and watch the game at Anaheim? That was last night, and I did not watch the game last night. Okay. In the third period, the fans in Anaheim were not only chanting OV, OV, OV, when he made the pass at the end to allow the teammate to get a hatcher for the first time in his career. Proton.

As opposed to actually, you know. you know, scoring another goal, he basically got a standing ovation on the road. That was an empty netter? That was an empty netter at the end? It was an empty netter at the end. And OV. could have. Go look at the replay.

He'd been a nice, unselfish past. That's what hockey players do. Such a neat. And here's the thing about Ovechkin. The thing about Ovechkin is that he handles himself with class. He's an outstanding teammate. He has never gotten himself in trouble off the ice. It's been a big blow-up.

He's won the same sweater his entire career. He's won a Family Cup. He's shown reverence to the greatest player in the history of the sport. His record, he's trying to break, and he's also doing it in an unselfish way. And I think the league and the sports world has an understanding

about who this guy is, even though there's a language barrier, and he's not as big as superstar as he would be if he spoke clean English. And that's not a denigrating him. I'm just saying it just people don't know as well. I think it's Beyond that, I think, you know, being Russian and being a Putin supporter hasn't helped them at various times either, but continue. Correct, correct. But my point is, in the hockey world and now the sports world that this record's gotten closer, I think people are starting to realize that this guy's doing it the right way.

And I think people are okay with that. I think football, D.C., Dallas, skins, cowboys, it would not have been well received. in Washington, if Emma Smith would have broken that record. I'd like to think people would stand up in clap for them, but that's a different deal. If it happens in Pittsburgh, it happened in Philly or New York or Boston or Detroit, I don't know, but Pittsburgh would be awfully tough, I think, I think, but I don't know. You know, let me just mention this because you understand this, because you know me.

I did not know until you told me. the way the game ended last night. I didn't know anything about it, which means I didn't talk about it in the open to this show, and I didn't talk about it on radio at all. I'm such an idiot. My producer on radio, the Denton Day, who I love dearly,

he's not a big hockey guy, but it's his responsibility to let me know that Ovechkin passed up an empty netter to get Alexei Protas' his first ever hat trick. That's actually a big miss today. Thank you for letting me know. Well, it was a potential.

You know, he would have been able to score it, but it wasn't like it was an empty netter and it was nobody in front of him. He just gave up the puck a little early. But if he would have made one move, would have had an empty net, he would have scored. But, you know, that's the other thing, Kevin. As big a sports fan as you and I are, and I know I'm a much bigger hockey guy than you are.

Much bigger. But you understand sport and you understand reverence and greatness and Gretzky and the whole thing, and what a vetchins trying to do? let's not make that. I do not think Carberry is going to leave him on the ice if he's won away or tied for the record to break it with an empty net.

I just don't think they have too much reverence for the sport and for Gretzky. Even though it's a clean goal and a real goal, and there's nothing wrong with it, I just don't think they want that to be in the history books. I think I'd be surprised if that record is broken with an empty netter. I just would be shocked at that

because I just don't think that that's something. that those guys want. I don't think a vetian wants that. But I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah, no, that makes sense to me too. All right, let's talk some golf. We didn't talk turks yet. I'm saving that for the end because I want to know how you're going to handle that when you're on the air on Saturday and Sunday. Steve will be on the air at the players championship for the golf channel all weekend long. Tomorrow, 1 to 7 on the golf channel. Friday, one to seven, Saturday, two to seven and Sunday, two to seven, I think it is, on NBC.

So Steve will be obviously hosting in a big part of the coverage all weekend long for the Players' Championship this weekend. By the way, what a sports week this is? You know, it's like, once they move the players to this date, I mean, for golf fans, not everybody listening cares about it, but if you're into college hoops, you're into the NFL and you're into golf, it is a busy week. All right, yeah, I was going to ask you at the very end. I'll just ask you now.

You're just sitting there. You're calling golf. You're calling the fifth major, and yet you're paying attention to Maryland versus Purdue Saturday semifinals at 430 or whatever time it would tip. First of all, now you're like my three sons. Can we get past Illinois or somebody else on Friday night first? That's a big deal, but you can, that game starts at 630, so you'll be able to catch a big portion of that when you go off the air, right?

I'll give you a little secret for those of you who are listening, as long as Tommy Roy, the producer's not listening. The iPad and the booth, no volume on, may or may not have a couple of apps that allow us to watch live sporting events that we care about on the side. I've gotten a text or two. I've gotten a text or two from you. in the middle of games while you're on the air calling golf tournaments. You're a good multitask. As the great Val fan says, the only learned skill in sports TV is to be able to multitask. All right, Tiger Woods, was he close to playing a lot more?

What did we just miss out on with his ruptured Achilles? Well, he was going to play, and then his mother passed away. So then he backed away from playing, which is completely understandable. Everybody can understand that. And then he started ramping it back up to play again, and he was going to play either this week or last week. You know, you want eight times at Bay Hill,

and he's won here a couple times. And he wanted to get some reps in before going to Augustine. And playing well, looking good, I saw him a few weeks ago. And he just ruptured as Achilles. And my gosh, Kevin, you know, We can talk best or worse or who's the best in tackles and stuff like that. As far as injuries go in athletics, when you're 48, 49 years of age,

I can't imagine anything worse than a rupture to kill him. Golly, it's just terrible. I feel terrible for him. Yeah, I mean, there were some things that I had read recently, and I don't know if I asked you about this or not, that, you know, he had another back surgery back in September. And there were people saying that he's actually walking and he looks, better than he's ever looked. I feel like we get that every year, you know, hoping that he's

going to play more, but was it true? He definitely looked better, definitely felt better. He told me in the Bahamas, we had him in the booth at his event, the World Challenge, and then just before the Genesis Invitational, which was just a few weeks ago, I mean, I talked to him. He said he was feeling better. He said he was moving better. The swing looked good. The thing that was encouraging him the most is that his swing speed is still there, even in his late 40s. And when you have the swing speed, that means you'll have the ball speed and the distance to be able to compete. And if he could just get a few reps in, then, you know, he would sharpen his short game a little bit in his putting and then maybe make a run at an 83rd title or say a six green jacket

or something like that. But without any reps, you just can't compete against these guys at the highest level. So he was working out. He was ready to go. He felt great, and he popped his Achilles. I mean, that could happen to anybody at any time. Yeah. But the timing of this, I'm not saying this is the end, but that's a hell of an injury to try to recover from at this late stage.

Yeah. It seems to be the injury, especially for people when they get into their 40s and are still trying to be competitive in sports. All right. Let me tell you one. Let me tell you one other thing. Yeah. This is bizarre. This is why golf is so different than the other sports. Remember he won the Masters in 19?

Yep. This was his last players to be eligible. Oh, really? So think about that. Tiger Woods, not being eligible to play in the biggest events on the PGA Tour calendar. And this was his final year of eligibility as far as, you know, being able to get in the field. Amazing. All right. Let's talk about the players. Give me your pick.

and then give me like you do typically a couple of sleepers from the back of the pack. Well, you and I share a lot of things in common. One of them is not liking the chalk. However, I think Scotty is rounding into four. Remember I talked about the reps with Tiger? He had that weird injury with a kitchen knife over the holidays. Right. Didn't play for a while.

And it's kind of easing his way back in. and he's a two-time defending champion. This is a shot-maker's golf course, second-shot golf course. A lot of players will be in the same spot, you know, in the fairways, hitting irons, and then see if he can make some putts. So Kalamorakawa did not close last week, but he is one, two, three in the world as far as iron play. I think Moracala, I think Scotty Shepler has a very good chance at three-peep. Last year he became the first person ever go back-to-back.

and as far as more horsepower, I think Ludwig Oberg is a guy who's going to compete here. I think is also going to compete the next time we speak on the radio or on your podcast, the week of Augusta. If I was going to go off the board, I think Matt Fitzpatrick is going to play well this week. Matt Fitzpatrick is a guy who's a thinking man's golfer.

Think of like Mike Weir and Zach Johnson. Well, I think Matt Fitzpatrick fits that bill, And this golf course, again, because it's shot to shot to shot, it's not like you can overpower this course, and it's not a course that favors one player or another. You just have to go all the way through the bag. If I was going to go off the board with somebody, I would go with Matt Fitzpatrick.

What kind of chance do you give Denny this week, McCarthy? Oh, I think Denny always has a chance because of that putter. I think sometimes, and I love Denny, you know, I love Maryland basketball ball. He cheated on us and went to Virginia instead of going to play golf with Maryland, but he still is a Terps fan. Tremendous putter, top 10 putter in the world. Sometimes the putter gets a little bulky under pressure.

Yeah, it does. But that's because, A, of the pressure, and B, because it's just a funny game sometimes in that regard. But he's a very, very good iron player, so I think he has a chance. this week. I always give Denny a chance because of the way he hits his iron. He's sneaky long off the tee, even though he's kind of a little guy. But the putting has got to show up on late Saturday, and not just late Sunday, Kevin, but early Sunday. When he's in contention and he makes a putt early, well, then all of a sudden he can get you to the finish line.

When he relied on his putter as much as he does, and it doesn't cooperate. Think of Rory McElroy. first couple holes if he makes a put you're like wow here you go he's playing downhill Denny's the same way not that he loses confidence in his putting but what he doesn't make one early it tends to go sideways for him and that's you know hopefully that doesn't happen to him this weekend but for sure the way Denny plays I think for sure

Denny has a chance to win it's a great place for him to bust out and get his first win because the golf course literally doesn't favor anybody last one because I just included him in one of the pools that I think we're both in. I think Jason Day is playing well and I think he's got a chance. Yep. For sure. 2015 winner here.

Played very well last week. You know, his game is starting to round into form. You know, he was number one in the world, major champion, players champion, kind of wife, kids, not as interested, dipped away a little bit. I think now he's really, really engaged and interested, and he also's playing some outstanding golf. So I absolutely think Jason Day has a chance this week. all the tools. And by the way, his short game is back, man. His short game where he was best player in the world was so great. And his short game, his hands are incredible, Kevin.

Do you care as much as I do about this, about Maryland playing well in this Big Ten tournament, even though obviously next week is more important? But because we've never had any success this time of year in this tournament, I'm really into this, and it's meaningful to me. What about you. I'm into it for a couple reasons. One is what you said. I think that Maryland needs to have success in the Big Ten tournament. Second alone in the regular season, there's a heck of a regular season. I do think that Michigan State and Maryland are the two best teams in the league. I think one, two is correct, and I'd like to see that match up again on Sunday. So I think it's a big deal because I think winning breeds winning. And I think that you're going to get some time off regardless

because you're not going to play to at least Thursday, maybe even Friday. So I don't, I don't think there's any reason for Maryland fans like us to not want to play great. The other thing is, I've got another weekend once in like 12 years. You know, like, I mean, give me a break. It's Maryland basketball. Let's go already. And the other thing is, I think personally, I know that if you get to the Sweet 16, heck, I know if you get to the first weekend in this top 32, that you're playing a very

difficult matchup. However, I think there's a huge... Ben Pelton and I've been talking about this for months. I don't have a huge difference between being a three, four, and five. If you're on the four-five line, well, you know, that's a four-five game the first weekend of the tournament, and then you're most likely playing the one seed in the three-sixth. Yeah. If you were on the three-line, that's why I said, if we're going to lose and lose and be a six,

you know, but now we can't be a six. It's either going to be three, four, or five. Right. And if we win a couple of games and play Michigan State on Sunday, even though the committee sucks and they don't pay attention, to conference tournaments anymore. I don't know why, but they don't. Joe Lannardi says they picked the whole thing on Friday anyway.

But if we do get to the weekend, I think we have a chance to be a three-seed, and I think a 3-14 versus, and then a 6, I'll take my chances with that to get to the Sweet 16th more so than I would if they were on the 4-5 fund. I think there's a lot of truth to that, but I think there's also a truth to it's about matchups, and you could get a tougher matchup in a 3-6 game

than you might in a 4-5 game. You might have a tougher matchup against a 2 in the Sweet 16 than you would in a 4 versus 1. But for the most part, I think, you know, I would rather, especially this year, because I think Duke in particular in Florida are loaded. I'd rather not. But here's the, I totally agree to Kevin,

but here's a thing. Because the way they like to do matchups, kind of like how the U.S. Open likes to put people together based on storyline. Yeah. You know darn well if they make us a four, they could very well put us with the one being good because of the old ACC rivalry.

Yeah. I don't want to play Duke in the 3-16. I want to play Duke in the Elite 8. Me too. Get off that 4-5 line. Get us on the 3. I'd like to play them in the national championship game, actually. As long as we're advancing our team further along,

let's just say let's play them in the national championship game. That would be fun. Guess where the final four is this year? It's in San Antonio, right? Guess what's that week? Palero, Texas Open in San Antonio. Oh, look at you. All right, on the schedule.

Hey now, let's go. All right. Great job. Appreciate it. Have a great weekend on television. We'll be watching. Thanks. Go Terps.

Go Caps. Let's have a good week. See you. Steve Sands, everybody. The best part about having a guy like Steve on and a guy like Barry. on is you can basically talk about almost anything, which we just did. All right, as I mentioned at the top of the show, I will not have a show tomorrow, but I will be back on Friday. So until then, enjoy the hoops, enjoy free agency, whatever happens. Talk to you on Friday.

It's second and goal. End zone shot for the lead. It's McClorie. Washington is in front.