The Kevin Sheehan Show - Mark Ein Follow-Up + Logan Paulsen

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Kevin opened with thoughts and follow-up to his conversation on Friday with Commanders' minority owner Mark Ein. Logan Paulsen joined the show to talk all things Washington Commanders on the eve of veteran players reporting to training camp.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. One guest on the show today, and he is a good one. Logan Paulson's going to join me in the next segment. Perhaps even beyond that, we will see how it goes. It typically goes well when Logan is on the show. We are on the eve of training camp, or the real beginning of training camp with veterans reporting tomorrow. Dan Quinn and Adam Peters are holding a training camp press conference to kick it off tomorrow. So on tomorrow's show, we'll have some follow-up to that. But Logan Paulson coming up. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Wind Donation.

Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com. Mention my name for a free, no obligation in-home estimate. This from Robert to start the show. Kevin, I liked the interview with Mark Eine. Let me just interject. We had Mark Eine on the show on Friday, so if you missed it, go back and listen to it. Mark, a minority shareholder in the Washington football franchise.

I've had Mark on the podcast many times in the past, typically to promote his tennis tournament, the City Open, which starts this upcoming weekend. I think since he became a minority shareholder and a significant advisor to Josh Harris in the purchase of the team. I think we've had Mark on the show one other time. And I think I've had him on the radio show as well. But Mark was good on Friday,

and I would recommend if you haven't listened to it to go back and listen to it. But this from Robert, he said, I like the interview with Mark Ein. Just not sure what I learned about the team name, despite you calling him out for their ability to multitask. He said it was a... big lift. So is getting rid of the name. Deal with it. The name is a big lift because it's gone and shouldn't have ever been taken away. Make it right for those of us that are happy Snyder is gone,

but not as happy as we should be. That from Robert. You know, Robert, that last line I think rings so true to me about how so many people feel. When you write, make it right for those of us that are happy, Snyder is gone, but not as happy as we should be. For years, as our interest started to diminish year by year, there was one answer. It was get rid of Snyder. Snyder's got to sell.

The league's got to force them out, whatever. And that seemed like a pipe dream. Like he was never going to do that. But then 2020 came. And something was lost that was very emotional for a lot of us. And when Snyder actually was forced to sell the team, it didn't feel like the victory that we thought it should feel like. Look, it did feel pretty significant.

You know, a year ago, when it was finalized a year ago Saturday, that was a euphoric feeling, even though the team's name had changed, the team's uniforms had changed, and the team has seemed since 2022 to be a completely different franchise than the one that most of us grew up rooting for. But, you know, the way you wrote that, Robert, it really did describe, I know it did, the way a lot of people feel. You know, make it right for those of us. us that are happy Snyder is gone, but not as happy as we should be. Well, you know, some would

argue that making it right would be to behave like a normal franchise and win on the field. We'll see. I'm not sure winning is, you know, the Silver Bullet answer here. I'm not sure. I can't say for sure that all of you that feel the way Robert does won't come back if the team starts to win on the field. But I think a significant percentage of you who feel the way Robert feels are out until there is a brand change that makes you feel somewhat, somewhat attached to the product on the field. As far as Mark goes and what you learned about the team name, look, they're not going to say much. They just aren't. I knew that going into it. I think, you know, pushing back on his, you know, insistence, which has been the company line since last July, which is it's just not a priority.

We have other pressing priorities. I think it's just grown old after a year. You know, they can multitask, and I mentioned that to him. I said, you know, successful business people and entrepreneurs, you know, aren't focused on just one task. They can do more than one thing at a time. And he said, yeah, but it's a really big lift. I know what he's talking about when he says big lift. I do.

I think I do. I think a big part of that is there isn't an obvious solution. The only obvious solution is a non-starter, Redskins. And that's, you know, part of their challenge. The fact that he admitted that it's a big lift means they understand what a big issue this is and how challenging of an issue it is. And I understand, as I've said for months now, why they're not addressing it publicly right now, you know, why they continue to insist that there are other priorities right now that they have to be focused on, even though I think they can multitask, and I think they are multitasking.

But publicly, I just don't think they're going to say much about it, they don't want to jeopardize in any way, shape, or form the stadium effort. But I promise you, benefit of the doubt, Kev won't be so benefit of the doubt. If after a stadium deal is done and a breakground date is set, if they try to pass the buck on the name question by insisting that it's not at the top of their priority list. once they get through this stadium, it is then at that point that they should be telling us where they are on this. Let's not forget, Josh Harrison, his introductory press conference said, we are going to listen to our fans.

The fans have spoken loudly, 84% in that post poll, want something other than commanders. Their own internal polling showed a significant, percentage, 63% want a brand change. So that's when I will become less benefit of the doubt. I'm not predicting that'll happen. I'm not. I'm not predicting that, you know, Phil Ford and Michael Corn and Alwood and who else were on those great Carolina teams?

John Custer. I'm not predicting that we're going to get the Carolina 4th. corners and they're going to try to, you know, win a Super Bowl and then not have to change it, or at least in their own mind, they'll feel strongly enough that it would be crazy to change it if they're Super Bowl champions as the Washington commanders. I'm not predicting that that's their strategy. I'm not. I think they'll address this.

I think they understand how big of an issue this is, and I think they've been working on it. I just, you know, will feel differently if when the stadium, you know, is consummated, it's done, we know when they're going to break ground, we know what the projected open date is, you know, and we'll probably find that out sometime between September and January, February, I guess. I don't know, they may have to wait for the whole new Congress to come in.

Let's hope it gets done in September or during the lame duck period between the election and the end of the year. But that's when I would start to really be, frustrated. And I understand why people are frustrated now, but I also think that there are reasons why they can't address it right now. But yeah, Robert, you know what? Big lift. Deal with it. You're right. You know, it's, this is what you signed up for when you bought this team. You know, it wasn't the easiest purchase. It certainly wasn't cheap. And there was a lot to the rebuilding, of this franchise

and they knew it when they bought it, that the name was going to be a big part of the rebuilding process. So, yeah, as you said, getting rid of the name was a big lift as well, so deal with it.

This from Jen. Jen writes, Kevin, my husband and I have been listeners for years, love you and Cooley together and really hope that he will do his film analysis this season. I am working on it, Jen. Jen continues.

Mark Eind's honesty about the timing around a new stadium was really depressing. I can't believe we have seven to nine more years at FedEx Field. I think Tom's going to be right. They're going to build in Landover. Yeah, Mark said that, you know, the go to the new stadium for a game date is seven to nine years away. That would be 2031, 2032 or 20. 233. And when I listed the dates or the years, he said, well, there's still a chance we could be in by 2030, and that is the, you know, hope. And that is six years away. That's why they continue to

invest heavily into the current stadium, because they're going to be there for a while. They're going to be there for a while. It'll be interesting, by the way, because it's not FedEx Field anymore, Jen. You know, it's Commander's Field. I think it's going to be interesting to see if they get a naming rights sponsor, partner before the beginning of this season. You would think that Jaden Daniels, Dan Quinn, New Regime, there is more to pitch heading into this season than there has been in a long time. Let's see if they can get a deal done, because I do not want to refer to it as Commander's Field, and I won't. This from Jerry. Kevin, I thought it was interesting what Mark Eind said about Adam Peters first choice being Dan Quinn.

Did you pay him to say that? I just don't believe any of them, you included. Ben Johnson was the hot candidate just like Adam Peters was. That's who they wanted. This is what Mark Eind said to me when I asked him, why Dan Quinn? And he said this. He was Adam's first choice from the beginning. He was the person he wanted because he felt paired with him.

That was the perfect combination. Adam never wavered from thinking that Dan was the person he wanted. And then, again, I didn't interview him, so I didn't meet him, but just, you know, talking to Josh and the guys while they're doing it, that was the thing from the first interview was just, you know, if you want to transform a culture, there's not going to be no one better. better than Dan Quinn. If you want to inject energy into an organization, there's no one better than Dan Quinn. Jerry, for you, the emailer and others that are listening, and media members, both

national and local, I don't know what to tell you anymore, okay? I know that some people just don't want to admit that Dan Quinn wasn't the third or fourth or fifth choice, which has been their commentary for a long period of time now because there was so much out there about Ben Johnson in the media. It's okay to say you didn't have it right. Look, I told you from the very beginning that I had sources that it said to me, and it was a surprise to me, which is why I shared it with everybody, that after their first interview with Dan Quinn, he was at or near the top of their list. This was before they started the Zoom calls with anybody else and long before the Ben Johnson Detroit trip and meeting that got canceled,

the interview that got canceled long before that. Those of you that will tell you that Ben Johnson or Mike McDonald or anybody else was the choice over Dan Quinn or that Dan Quinn was way down the list and they had to settle for him. Because that's what you'll get. If Dan Quinn doesn't work out, you'll get. a lot of people who have been stuck on this that'll say, look, they didn't get their guy. You know, they had to settle for their guy. It's not true. It's not true. I know I wasn't the only person that was told this. I know other people that know that Dan Quinn was super impressive,

not only to Adam Peters, but to Josh Harris and others, and that this was a guy that they were dialed in on from the beginning. It didn't mean that they weren't going to go through the rest of the process. It didn't mean that others weren't impressive to them as well. But anybody that tells you that Dan Quinn was way down the list has no clue what they're talking about. This from my guy, Ian, a longtime caller to the show, not everybody's favorite. He is an acquired taste, that's for sure. He DM'd me and he wrote, instead of insulting WNBA League officials, just wait for the actual facts to come out. Caitlin Clark declined an invitation to the three-point contest.

Ion's referring to the discussion last week that the WNBA All-Star game, which included the three-point shooting contest on Friday night nationally televised by ESPN, did not include Caitlin Clark. And I ripped the WNBA for not including, including her in that three-point shooting contest. But Ayan knows this, and those of you that were listening closely, know this too, that I prefaced my rant,

and even, I think, post-scripted my rant with if she was offered to be in the three-point shooting contest and decided not to do it, declined, well, then just ignore this rant. but waiting for the actual facts to come out is not a great strategy in talk show radio in June and July. When you have something like that that presents itself, you simply put out the disclaimer of if she were offered and declined, then ignore what I'm about to say. By the way, one of the reasons I felt comfortable doing it was that she, She was asked if she was invited and she said, I don't know earlier in the week. I did not watch the WNBA All-Star game. I would be lying if I said I did.

I know that she had like 10 assists and set the record for assists in an All-Star game, but also barely scored. I think she was 0-4-9 or something like that, 0-4-8 from behind the arc. She's a really good player. I had a friend of mine this weekend say to me, I can't believe as much WNBA talk as you've done recently that you didn't crush Ted for not drafting Angel Reese. I guess I never really thought about it at all.

And I gave it some thought after my buddy mentioned it to me. And the Mystics ended up selecting Alia or Alia Edwards. one pick ahead of Angel Reese. Look, their job, the basketball people, their job is to pick the player that they think gives them the best chance to win. I think in most situations that is true and should be true. I do wonder, you know, with a league that has been struggling for so long, if Ted shouldn't have poked his head into the draft room,

like another owner in town used to do all the time, and say, yeah, don't we think kind of Edwards and Reese are really kind of a coin flip? Because Angel Reese will certainly help us a lot more at the box office. I think Angel Reese played very well in the WNBA game. How about Zander Shafley? Second Major, really happy for his breakout major year, you know, winning his first two. man, he was awesome on the back nine at Trune yesterday morning. Ended up shooting 65, final round 65, with a 4 under 31 on the back nine to pull away.

And just like that, the majors are over. It was fun to see that course beat the crap out of those players for a couple of days. The weather, the wind. It was very, very difficult all weekend long. You know, this was a venue in which the last winner went super low, winning it at 20 under. But Steve Sands told us on Wednesday of last week, he said that he thought 12 under, this was not going to be a mid-teens to high-teens winning score. He thought it would be, you know, somewhere around 12.

Well, it was 9. but Xander Schofle becomes, you know, a big-time championship player. It's going to be interesting on player of the year. I would assume it's still Scotty Sheffler, and we've got the FedEx playoffs to come. I mean, Sheffler's just won so many times,

and he won the Masters. But two majors in a year, hard to win two majors in a year and not be the player of the year. And then this from original C on Apple reviews. Original C did it right. He titled his review Charlie

and wrote Great Interview, exclamation point. Gave us five stars. He was referring to the Charlie Casserly interview last week. We had Charlie on the show on Monday. He was great. We had Howard Gutman on the show Wednesday. He was great, per usual.

And then we had Mark Eind on the show on Friday. If you get a chance and you haven't done it to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify, it would be much appreciated. We are trying to get a big push of ratings and reviews in between now and the end of the summer before football season starts. It'll be really helpful for us. Subscribing to the podcast helps following us on Apple and Spotify.

Really is a big assist for us as well. But easy to do on Apple. You can give us up to five stars, something just like Original C did. Great interview with Charlie Casserly. Really enjoyed the interview with Mark Gein. Howard Gutman's always fun to listen to. Something short and sweet,

as long as it's registered in there with enough stars. Five is the preference. All right. Logan Paulson next, right after these words, from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. go to MyBooky.ag for all of your sports betting needs.

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They'll give you a cash bonus on your initial signup. MyBooky.ag promo code, Kevin, D.C. Jumping on with us right now is one of my favorites on the show, and one of your favorites as well. Logan Paulson is with us. Of course, Logan played for the skins from 2010 through 2014. He was with the Bears. He was with the 49ers. He was with the Falcons.

He was briefly with the Texans as well. And for the last couple of years, of course, Logan has really been doing a phenomenal job as an analyst for the commander's website, for the commander's YouTube channel where he does a show with Fred Smoot and Santana Moss. He's got a podcast with Craig Hoffman called Take Command, and he joins me right now. We'll get into the team here in a moment, but I wanted to ask you just about training camp in general. You know, how you got ready for it, how you perceived it. I can't imagine it's like something that everybody looks forward to. Like it's a lot of fun. But just give me your overall memories of that show.

first day of camp and reporting to camp. And maybe if you've got a story or two that stands out, you can share that with us as well. Yeah, what is training camp like? I mean, that's a great question. And also thank you for the wonderful introduction. You're always too kind, Kevin. The thing about training camp is it's like you, it's like the hardest thing you do. It's like one of the hardest things physically that I ever had to do in my entire life. So like the week leading up, like you're super anxious, the day of, you're anxious, get out there, it's hot, it's very challenging, and so there's a lot of anxiety, at least for me, around training camp in this time of year, because not only was I physically about to be put through quite a stressful environment, but, like, psychologically and

emotionally, it was also very stressful because, you know, I was kind of a roster, bubble, a roster fringe guy for the majority of my career, and so, you know, this was the part, this was the start of my year that was the most important job interview of my life, and it happened 10 times, and it was always like I got to pour everything out to make sure I have a shot to be playing NFL football, and they don't take one of these bigger, faster, stronger guys that are on the roster inevitably with me. So that was something that always stick out to me. One of the funniest stories that I have from my time here in Washington, I've told us a couple

different places. I remember we were down in Richmond. We're coming back from like an exceptionally hot practice, and I was sitting in the bus with like Trent Williams and Wilcompton, and we were just kind of hanging out, and we got on the idea that, like, you know, I was, like, really having a tough practice. It was very physically challenging. I was going against, like, Ryan Carrigan and Brian Arakbo. Those guys were giving me fits a little bit.

And Trent, you know, was sitting in front of me and seen in front of me kind of looked at me. And he goes, you know what, man? Like, whenever football gets hard for me, I'm just going to, I'm just going to retire. And I just stared at him for a second. And, like, and, like, it is hard for me every single day. And it just kind of spoke to this thing for me that, like, I was, We're not in the same sphere, athletically or physically, you know, because he was just such a special guy.

But that was one training camp story that always stick out for me. Yeah, I don't think that Trent's ever found anything overly difficult as a player in the NFL. But I had a thought about this particular training camp. It's a training camp with a new coaching staff. And you went through that in 2010. You were a rookie, but the players that were here that were veterans were faced with a new coaching staff. Mike Shanahan arrived in 2010. You also went through it in 2017 in San Francisco when Kyle was in his first year as a head coach.

I don't know if you went through it with any of the other teams a year on, but I was wondering whether or not even established players like John Allen and Duran Payne and Terry McLorn, if there's more angst associated with a training camp with a new coaching regime, because there's a sense of needing to prove yourself. all over again. I mean, obviously for some, there is a little bit of proving yourself, and obviously, you know, their pedigree, I think, you know, John Duran and Terry, I think their pedigree speaks for themselves,

but I do think a guy, like Johan Dotson, for example, a guy that I think we were all very high on two years ago, a guy that we're still very high on, needs to kind of establish that he is a guy that could be your number two receiver for the foreseeable future. A guy that has, like, tremendous receiving upside. So absolutely, I think they need to establish himself.

I think that's one thing that I find. having been through a couple different training camps with a couple different teams, you know, with new coaching staffs or whatever, is that some of the older established players kind of take it like in a traditional way in a way that they would have done with their previous staff or the staff that drafted them.

When in reality, you kind of need to double down and refocus and kind of, you know, again, this is a job interview. Like, make sure you put your best foot forward with regards to, you know, yourself as a player and yourself as a person. So I think that's always, that can be really challenging for some more established players. And I've seen guys kind of falter through that process a little bit,

and I have a tough time kind of with the new staff and the change and kind of the rhythm of practice or the way they do things in practice. So absolutely, I think it's something that, you know, maybe not Duran and John and Terry, but, you know, everybody else in the roster definitely is in that boat, I think. Going back to when you said it's the most physically demanding thing you do, what, like I'm just thinking, you know, anybody out there listening that played sports at any point, especially if you played, you know, maybe through high school, there was a period in which is certainly, you know,

certainly old school coaches decided to really test you physically to see if you were in shape. I played basketball and it was suicides, you know. I can remember in actual, like the first couple of practices, we're running like suicides until people are. vomiting. I don't know why you would do that. But, you know, in some ways, I guess it's to weed out, you know, certain players. What's the most physically demanding thing that happens or has happened to you in a training camp? Yeah, that's a really good question. The most physically demanding thing that I ever did in any training camp was in 2013. We had this drill, this period called two drills in that year was one was pod drills. And one was, one was,

was this period called Apache period, like the helicopter. And in Podrill, basically like me as the blocking tight end, I would go with the offensive line, the defensive line would come over, and it was just, it was basically four on six, because I was part of the blocking surface. And we would just run different combinations. We'd run counter, so I would downblock, we'd run power, so I would downblock, we'd run, bounce, so I'd shield, and the guy would pull. The problem was, like Phil Callahan was running the drill, and the offensive line would

rotate every three or four plays. and I was in the whole time. And so in a 10-minute period, or less than that 8-minute period, we would get in approximately 16 to 22 plays, which is a lot consecutively. And so basically, like, I would go, and by the end of that period, I would be really sore because I had just blocked for 22 consecutive plays

and feel like I was going to vomit because there's no ball, it's just straight run fits, and I don't get any rest. The line gets a rest every three. So that was very challenging. and then in that same practice, we would do a two-minute period, and then we would do it Apache period. And Apache period was basically a full field drive with our Apache package, which is our hurry-up offense.

And so unlike two-minute, which is somewhat self-contained, in the sense that you're like, you know, it's like maybe if I play drive, like you'd go on a 13-play Apache drive because you're doing runs, you're doing quick game, you're doing all these different things. And I just remember, you know, on the first. Like so, I'd go from pods. We do a team period. We do Apache, which is basically like dry heaving in the huddle

because I was so out of breath. And this was down in Richmond where it was incredibly hot. And we did that almost every single day. So that was a pretty rigorous training camp. But I think on the whole, it's the idea of camp, the idea you get up at seven, you meet from eight to ten, you go to practice from 10 to 1230, you go to meetings after lunch,

you have a walk-through in the afternoon. You go to meetings again. it's just a day. And the fact that it's every single day for two and a half, three weeks like that is the thing that makes it extremely mentally and physically exhausting. Yeah, I can imagine. All right. We haven't really talked for about two months. I think it was shortly after the rookie minicamp and you had had kind of your first experience up close with Jaden Daniels. You had a chance to see him through OTAs and through the mandatory mini camp. How ready do you think he is heading into camp to ultimately, you know, emerge from camp as the starter against Tampa in

week one. Yeah, I mean, I think he's done a really great job of, you know, establishing himself as the guy that I think is the best quarterback on the roster. And now it's up to Dan and the staff to decide how best to kind of use that and allocate that and determine whether he's ready to be starting games early in the season, obviously. But I think he's got what you're looking for. Now that doesn't mean he's going to be the next Peyton Manning, next Andrew Luck, anything like that.

I think he's got a long way to go still because there's still, you know, periods and times in practice, you know, where he's, the defense will get him, he'll make an errand throw, whatever. But I do think just from a, you know, down-to-down consistency standpoint, he's the best quarterback through OTAs and through mini-camp. And obviously training camp is another kind of step up in terms of speed in terms of intensity. So how does he handle that? But I think he's a guy that positioned himself extremely well. to be playing football for this team.

I'm not going to say starting week one, but definitely starting sooner rather than later. Do you think he should start week one? I mean, as of right now, yeah. But as you know, as you know, like you've been covering this team for a long time. You've been covering football for a long time. Like things happen in training camp,

things happen in joint practices, things happen in the preseason that help kind of separate guys on the roster. And so I don't know, like I don't foresee this happen. but hypothetically if you were to take a little bit of regression, a regression, and Marcus Marriota needed to start for a couple weeks, I see that's totally fair. But as of right now, I would probably say he would do my starting quarterback week one. But again, things change, and that's why this is a fluid evaluation process.

What are the things that you're confident that he'll be really good at right from the beginning? You know what? I think right away, I think just his... process has been really impressive to me. Like his ability to kind of, his footwork in the pocket, it's been really impressive, which lends me to think that he'll be good at quick game.

I think his release is excellent. Like the RPO game, I think we'll totally be on the table, and looking at what some of the stuff they did in Philadelphia with Ryan Johnson, I think that might transfer really well. I think he layers throws at a high level, like just in terms of watching practice,

and again, that's different than a game. But I think there's, because of his footwork, I think it lends himself to be a much better pastor than I think people were perhaps anticipating there were kind of tangentially following him through the draft process. So I'm going to say generally the past game is something that I think he's really ready to be successful and something that I can't wait to watch him kind of continue to grow at during this training camp process. If I told you there was a part of his game that was, you know, it took some time, that it was slow developing and, you know, it wasn't there at the beginning,

it may not be there at the middle of the season, but maybe by the end of the season it starts to improve. What area of his game would that be? Yeah, I don't really know as of right now. Again, he's a human being. He's not perfect. He's not the second coming at Peyton Manning, but he had a really good off-season OTA period.

You know, he did a really good job. And I think if there was one weakness to his game, it would be kind of those throws on time over the middle of the field, the throws into tight window. and I anticipate that he just gets better at that because the more reps he gets, the better that's going to be. But those are two areas where, again,

that separates good quarterback play from great quarterback play, and did he show flashes of that during the OTA minicamp period? Sure. But I want to see him be a little bit more consistent with that. And so obviously there was a little bit of progression during the off season, but I think a continued progression is to be expected. And, you know, if he does, I think he'll be a pretty gosh-during good quarterback. I don't need you to quantify this answer unless you,

want to, but what would represent for you a really good rookie season, something where you'd be like that's a really solid rookie season. How would you describe that? I think there's something when you're watching quarterback play. I think back to Sam Howell last year where there was that three or four game stretch where he looked like he had it. He's making tough throws. He's running the offense. He's keeping things on time. And, Again, it doesn't need to necessarily be big explosive plays down the field, but just running the offense effectively for 16 or 17 weeks in the NFL, like that to me would be extremely encouraging.

And something that I would be just tremendously excited about because it means you've got a guy that this NFL game, the complexity of NFL defenses isn't too big for him. Like, you know, you can throw picks, you can throw touchdowns, but the down-to-down consistency of him executing, you know, a flant, then executing a deep dig, then doing a play pass, and running his own read, moving the change for the offense over the course of the season, like that would be the number one indicator for me of him being successful this year

and the idea that the franchise would have a franchise quarterback moving forward. And that's something, again, like it's not predicated on touchdowns, it's not predicated in the receptions. It's the down-to-down consistency that would lead to a successful season in my estimation. scale of one to five one you are not concerned at all five you're extremely concerned what would you give the offensive line your thoughts on the offensive line I'm going to say like a three and a half maybe three four something like that and that's not because I don't trust some of the personnel they brought in like obviously like

I think you know Wiley's a better football player than he showed last year I think Cosme's on the precipice being something good. The Otis, I think, could be something special, you know, at center, something very solid at center, not special, but solid at center, which we haven't had here for a couple years. But then I think the left side of the offensive line, I think Cornelius-Lews is the best past protector on the team, maybe. Obviously, like, there's more to playing offensive line than pass protection. And then there's a big question at offensive guard. I think the questions and the new pieces coming in and just how that all comes together are things that

give me a little bit of pause and a little bit of concern about the group. And again, it's not, but I think there's bad football players on the team. Just with offensive line play, it's so closely tied to how they all see the defense, how they communicate, and, you know, they haven't got a ton of reps over the offseason. And that's the new offseason structure kind of around the NFL. But I'm just, I'm a little bit concerned just because the newness of everything. And it takes a lot to get those guys to jell together. it can be done.

And so, you know, I might feel totally different about that, you know, moving in before the season starts. Right now, there's just so many questions around that position group. If Cliff Kingsbury has the same level of concern, a three and a half or four, does he have to scheme around that? Yeah, 100%. But I think that's something that is a little bit of an unfair question. And this is a criticism of you. It's just a criticism of, like, NFL, you know, like pundits in general. like you always have to scheme around your offensive line.

You always are kind of finding what speaks best for them, what runs are the best, what protections are best, how do I de-leverage them the most, even the best offensive lines in football. You know, like, look at the Detroit lines that's like kind of, universally that considered the best all-all line in football. Like, they schematically do really innovative stuff to maximize that group. Kyle Shanahan, like he maximized the O-line.

Like, Dick Daniels, maximize the O-L-line. And I think every play caller, like that's the thing that kind of the yoke that weighs your offense potentially, right? Obviously, quarterback's the other one. But if you don't call a game with them in mind, then I think I personally think you're doing it wrong. I think that should always be one of your foremost concern. So, you know, even if that's a one, even if I'm not concerned about the O-line at all, through play calling, I can make that a five. You know, I can go out there and say, I'm not concerned.

We're going to drop back past 50 times a game. we're going to put those guys in absolute hell, and they're going to look like a bad group. Or I can pull a Kyle Shanahan. We're going to run the ball. We're going to play action pass. We're going to be in four to five drop-back pass scenarios. Again, Brock Purdy is good enough to elevate us, right?

And all of a sudden, the offensive lines are not concerned. And when you go across that, the same Francisco offensive line, there are some big question marks there, but you never know about it because the play card does a great job. I think that's something that, you know, just generally NFL people need to be aware of. It's like, that is the thing. There's plenty of good skill position, guys.

There's plenty of good receivers, running backs, tight ends. It's the five offensive line, and they have the hardest job in the offense outside of football. You definitely need to be accounting for what they're doing at all times, for sure. Do you have a feel yet for what the Kingsbury offense is going to be, what kind of sort of the hallmark of it is going to be? Yeah, no, not yet. I think that's, again, talk about things to be excited about. It's one of the things I'm maybe most excited to see this offseason is, like,

what it finally becomes. because, you know, watching him in Arizona, there was a pretty significant evolution, right? And what they were in 2021 was different than when he got there, I think, in 2019 or whatever was 18. And so now you have different pieces. You have different skill position guys. You have different offensive line concerns. You have a young quarterback. And you have all these different, you know, you have Anthony Lynn coming, and you have Brian Johnson coming in, guys that came from really exquisite, you know,

offenses in terms of run philosophy. And I look at that and I say to myself, like, this could be really exciting, you know, in terms of the level of innovation that's happening. Obviously, I think the cornerstone is going to be, you know, what Cliff wants to do. He wants to get back. He wants to go the football. But he also understands in the NFL,

you need to keep the defense off balance. And so how do you do that? Are you bringing some of that kind of NFL triple option where we've got the zone read action with the receivers out to the left and we can throw the football or run into the quarterback. It's something around at 100 LSU. Are we running the heavy play action stuff that Anthony Lynn was exposed to with Kyle and San Francisco?

Like, is that a feature of it? Because I think it's just the thing that I love about Cliff in terms of watching him is he knows how to get guys open, and he knows how to scheme guys open using different tools. And so what do those tools become? Because right now, I think ultimately they're still probably trying to figure out what exactly this group of offensive players is good at. And once that is discovered and once they've kind of figured out the correct tools to get the job done,

I think this is going to be a pretty exciting offense. Yeah, I can't wait for that either. It's one of the things that I'm most excited to see is how, you know, because he has been called by people that know him as incredibly smart, incredibly creative, and he certainly has a quarterback, don't you think, that has a lot of versatility in terms of the things that you could do? I mean, I totally agree. And I think that's one of the things that's, again, that's really exciting about this,

is I think Jane Daniels has the potential to be something special as a runner and as a thrower. And so when you have a quarterback that can put the defense in conflict like that, and you have a play caller who, like you said, has this reputation of understanding how to put the defense in conflict and you give him this wonderful chess piece, I think it just opens up the book so much more like having a running quarterback or a mobile quarterback is so devastating for defenses. And I think that honestly, that's one of the reasons why Cliff is the offensive coordinator here, because Dan had to prep for him a bunch of times over the course of his career. And when you look at that Arizona offense, man, they are so good at putting you in conflict.

And I think about, like, I think Cliff's going to bring that here. He's going to put you in conflict. The thing that I keep coming back to is how is we're going to do it. Obviously, he's going to throw the ball. That's like one of his main court tenants. I think Jane Daniels can handle that, but it's the other stuff, the frills, the motions, the shifts, the formations that I'm really excited to see, like, what they truly lean into personnel groupings to maximize this offensive group. Give me a player on offense that you're really excited about, that you're confident is going to be a beneficiary of all of the change here. And maybe it's somebody that we're not necessarily thinking of.

Um, that's a really good question. I would have to say a guy that I'm just excited for in general, and I think would be successful kind of regardless of scheme, is Brian Robinson, Jr. I mean, he's a guy that I just, I'm just, he just, the way he catches the football, I think about the last day of OTAs. They're running, they're running three verse off of a jet motion action, and he's running the middle seat, like the seam up the hash, and the way he can torch to catch the football,

and I'm like, that's a piece that's going to make you better. the way he sees cuts, his contact balance, the way he catches the football. I think Clips going to find a way to maximize that skill set, and he's going to be a devastating piece in this offense. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll keep Logan with us and we'll talk defense when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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and no payments for 24 months. We continue with Logan Paulson. Let's flip it to defense. How will they generate a pass rush? Oh, man, that's why you get paid the big bucks, man. As a defensive coordinator and as a D-Line coach to figure that kind of stuff out. But what I will say is like when you watch Dallas, you know, obviously Michael Parsons is an absolute animal and he's going to create a ton of pressure. But one of the thing I will say that I loved about what they did in Dallas is they really found ways to maximize the four-man rush, five-man rush, simulated pressures with stunts and games.

and through the OTA process, one of the things, like you go watch individual, obviously, Coach Daryl Tap is out there, getting those guys juiced up, bringing the energy, but they are repping,

even now, games and stunts and the timing on that stuff, because there were times last year I'm like, this stunt, this game along the front, feels like a blitz

because of how well they've run it and how quickly they get the free runner to the quarterback. And so, again, you can't do that all the time, but you can do it enough and do it way more

than they did last year and coach it to a higher, level to maximize these groups. Another thing I want to point out, too, is the defensive system that Daryl Tapp comes from, defensive system that Dan Klin comes from, is kind of this aggressive, it's an aggressive front. They really are motivated to rush the passer. And so one of the things, I think, just schematically, that's going to help this

group out is the simplicity they're going to bring. Hey, man, like, stop the run on the way to the pass. We're always rushing the passer. And that's kind of silly, but the funny thing about that is you end up falling into sacks on playpass, on keepers, on zone reeds that are kind of junk sacks, but they still show up in the end on the statute. So I think all those things, those two things specifically, in conjunction with just a better defensive philosophy and a better coverage, Halo and umbrella on the back end are going to

help this group create more pressure than anticipated, obviously. You know, they still need, I think, to probably add some pieces, and that's why this is a multi-year rebuild, but I think the X's and O's, are going to be the big thing, in my opinion, and the execution of those exes andos that are going to lead to sacks for this group. Did you play with Daryl Tap? No. I did.

Oh, you did. He did. He did. Because he was here for a year, right? Yeah, he was here for a year. And obviously, I played against when he was Philly, when he was in Philly. And I will say that dude has, like, maybe the hardest head of any human being. Like, talk about Denton Face masks.

That guy definitely played with that type of mindset. on a scale of one to five one not concerned at all five extremely concerned what are your thoughts on the cornerbacks on this roster um one not concerned i'm probably a two and that's not necessarily because of the personnel obviously like you know st jose's as his shortcomings and annual Forbes as his shortcomings i'm just so confident in you know joe wood junior honestly and what he's done in his resume, his ability to maximize those guys in the back end. And even just watching through minicamp in OTAs, you can tell there's a level of detail and a level of precision

and the techniques of those guys in the back end that just hasn't been here for a while. And I think that's going to allow those guys to play significantly better. And again, it's kind of like the defensive line. The scheme is going to elevate them. And at some point, you know, maybe next year they have to draft a quarterback in the first round or whatever that looks like. But I am not that concerned about that group because I think, the X's and O's are going to elevate the Jimmy's and Joe's in a way that we haven't seen.

You know, last year was kind of like go out and play ball guys. Like, hey, four-man rush, go in win. And then did they give those guys in the back end enough communication tools and a good enough understanding of what the coverage philosophy was? I mean, there were times where I'd be talking around. You know, we've watched the film together. He'd be like, you know, he shouldn't be doing this. And in my head, I'm like, well, does he know that?

Because good coaches make sure that gets communicated. And you can tell through the OTA minicamp process. like the DB coach, Joe Wood Jr., Dan Quinn, they're going to hold those guys to a different standard. So I'm expecting significantly improved performance just based on better coaching. I mean, do you feel that way about the defense overall? Yeah, 100%. 1,000%.

I mean, I think you look at like even the addition of Bobby Wagner, you know, like having that guy in the middle of your defense, you know, he's not what he once was, but the ability to communicate, put guys in the right spot, encourage guys to play fast. Like how to be the translator for Joe Wood Jr. for some of these defensive concepts to help guys see certain tells about, you know, stance work and tendencies and down in distance. Like he's going to elevate, right?

I think the defensive philosophy in general is just going to elevate everybody. So, yeah, I 100% feel that way. And obviously they've got to figure some stuff out with regards to personnel. Like there's going to be an evolution here because of the pieces that they have. But I think this group's going to be significantly better than they were last year. I mean, I'm just excited actually to see Duran and John bounce back with an organized, you know, group with a team and a staff that knows they aren't lame duck. Like, I just have to think that last year's overall vibe just wasn't conducive to great play on the field.

Yeah, I mean, I think especially when you look at the defensive stuff, It just, you know, obviously there's an element of guys needing to play better, but like there's also times where you're watching it and you're saying, are you maximizing what this guy can do? Are you maximizing what this group can do? And there are oftentimes, you know, you're trying to give coaches and the staff and the players the benefit of the doubt. But I think if you were being objective, you have to say no.

And I'm hoping that that changes dramatically this year based on what we've seen this, you know, Joe Wood Jr. and Dan Quinn do in Dallas. If I told you that between Jamin Davis and Emmanuel Forbes Jr., one had a very good season in 2024, and one didn't, which of the two did have a good 2024 season and why? You know, if you asked Fred Smoot, it would probably be the opposite answer, but I'd have to say if Emmanuel Forbes had a good season, I would not be surprised. for me I'm a little bit on the fence about this this transition of jaman davis to edge rush I know there are some people that have a lot of faith in it I just it's pass rushing is a very interesting

nuanced technical thing and you can't just plug big athletes in there and let them go hunt as a pass rusher like it takes a little bit of time and you know if you thought he was a linebacker wouldn't you want him getting linebacker reps next to bobby wagner you know and so I'm a little confused about the vision there. And again, I trust Dan. I trust Joe Wood Jr. I'm not second-guessing them. But in terms of like long-term, like I think that's a tough, that's a really tough transition. And I think when you watch Forbes in the minicamp, I think he's playing more

confident. I think he's playing more physical, specifically in coverage. Obviously, we don't have the pads on. They're not attacking anybody yet, but he's making plays on the football. And so I think in this defense with the tells and the confidence that Joe Witt can get this back in playing with, I think he's going to make a lot more plays. Same question I asked about the offense. Give me a player on defense that you're excited about that many people perhaps aren't necessarily thinking about. I mean, this might, I don't know if people are people thinking a lot about Juan Martin right now? Is that a fair answer?

No, if that's your answer, it's your answer. I mean, I'm kind of really excited to see him because I thought he played so well down the stretch. But, you know, not every. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the thing about him that's so special is that he can play nickel. he can play dime, which is Buffalo

Nickel, he can play post safety, you can play box safety, and in this defense that values flexibility and values, physicality, and values instincts, I just think he's got those things. And so, if you want to play near the line of scrimmage, you can do that. If you want to play in the post, you can do that. And so

especially given how we played the last six games the last season, I think he's a guy, I just, I can't wait to see what they do with him and how they utilize him. A couple more, and let's move it to special teams. I don't think we've talked about this before. What do you make of the new kickoff rules

and how they'll be handled? Let's just start with the return part of it. Have you thought about it? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I thought about it. I think a lot of people are maybe frustrated by the change, but I think it's good. I think anything that promotes player safety is important, and I think this does.

I'm also excited to see the play become relevant again. You know, like last year was the highest percentage of touchbacks or whatever it was. like basically a non-play. And so if they can incentivize these teams to use that play, scheme that play, be innovative with that play, and make it something you want to watch again,

you know, find the next Brian Mitchell to plug back there and have that be your competitive advantage, find your next Devon Hester or Cordell Patterson, whoever it is. Like, I can't wait for that. And so I'm really excited because I'm hoping that it brings, you know, some relevancy to that play and let's guys who were fringe guys find a role.

and find a legacy in the NFL because they can return kicks or because they can block on kick return. You know, more likely than not, I believe teams will now have two returners back there because you can't put the one deep returner and risk having the ball bounce in that area between the goal line and the 20 and have it go into the end zone. If that happens, you're starting at the 20. So, you know, in the spring league, you know, they consistently had two returners. That's what I'm expecting to see with this kickoff return. And if I'm right, who are the two returners going to be?

Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I think you probably want to lead to someone who's got a more kind of downhill running style. You know, so obviously like, you know, James and Crowder to me is like your prototypical punt returner. I don't know if he fits that all. A guy that I think would be interesting there is what Luke McCaffrey or someone, someone like, you know, Osnekler or even Chris Rodriguez, someone who's going to be very downhill with the attack on the football, kind of think about it more like a downhill gap scheme run

as opposed to what it was in the past where speed was prioritized. I think those types of body types are going to be maybe more effective with this new kickoff role. You know, from the kickoff standpoint, I'm sure you've heard that some coaches are actually trying to find somebody other than their kicker to kick off because there will be many more returns this year with the new rule, and they want the 11th player on the field to be a legitimate tackler. I think Kansas City is going to have that safety, Justin Reed, handle the kickoffs while Butker just handles extra points and field goals.

Do you know whether or not this team has anybody other than the overall? only kicker they have in camp, which is Ramiza Med. I have no idea for Miza Med can tackle anybody. But is there any punt pass and kick champion that can go out there and kick off and then tackle? Oh, man, I don't know, but I do think that's something that they should definitely look into. It's something that I always thought they should do with long snappers too, is find, you know, get your third string linebacker, teach them out a long snap, and then you get an extra coverage player down on kickoffs. I think it's just hard to find people who have a skill set that can kind of go across the board like that. But if they have somebody, more power to you.

I don't know of anybody at the moment, but, you know, we've got a couple weeks yet to figure it out. September 8th can't get here quickly enough. The last question really for you is, do you think from a fan perspective there's anything that we can really discern from preseason games or even practices or a camp visit for a fan about what's going to happen in the regular season? Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a good kind of measuring stick kind of way to see where the offensive and defensive staffs are leaning in terms of personnel decisions, defensive packages, offensive packages.

You know, if you go out there and you see that the commanders are in a lot of 12 personnel, obviously that's something they want to be doing in season. And again, things can change, but at least it is a snapshot of the mindset at this specific moment. And I think that that is, that's always really helpful. And again, like, you know, I had someone told me this, and I think this is very true. You know, like the NFL season's kind of broken up into quarters, you know. And the first quarter, much like the preseason, you're kind of still figuring out who you are. So, like, and I think the offseason and the preseason is kind of another element of that.

I think you're figuring out who you think you are, and then the first quarter you're confirming it, and then the next quarter, the second quarter, you're kind of changing and molding based on that information you've gotten from those first two times. So even though it's probably going to change, it does give you kind of a lightning rod of like this is where they think they're going to be week one. Thank you. As always, I hope you're well. Would love to do it again right before the opener in September. Yeah, man, that'd be awesome, Kevin. and thanks for having me on. Really appreciate it. Logan Paulson, everybody.

I love having Logan on the show. He's always so good. You know, Logan coaches. Logan's been a coach for a few years. He's the offensive coordinator over at a high school in Northern Virginia. And I have always felt, and I've said this many times over the years about guys like Tim Legler. Legs has coached AAU basketball for many, many years. the guys that are still involved in the game as coaches or they're close to the game in some way, shape, or form, they just tend to have, I think, sharper opinions as they analyze teams and games, etc. And Logan definitely fits that category of analyst.

He's really sharp and, you know, he's out there every day, coaching football. High school level, yes, but still, you know, it's football, and he's super close to the game, still even several years after his retirement. And he does a great job as an analyst. We'll have him back on before the regular season begins. All right, that is it for this Monday back tomorrow with Tommy. That sideline has got to be often concerned with what they're seeing body language-wise out of prison. We're going to